They really need to go to a full digital rules set. Release a lore and art book for each faction with all that part of what’s In the codex that you can buy if you want it. But all the rules should be digital at this point if they are updating them this often. I bet most players will love it and they will be willing to spend the 200 that would be on books on new minis instead
I too think that there needs to be a drastic change regarding codexes and how they are updated. The most logical way to to this moving forward, would be to release beautiful fluffy books that are optional, alongside a digital faction codex that gets updated regularly with the new data sheets.
Codex should be art, lore, and a campaign specific to that army with flexible enemies so you are enticed to buy the book as a collectors item and a campaign
My personal opinion. They released the new detachments because of how slow the releases have been this year. It’s a move to keep the fanbase engaged so their eyes don’t wander to other miniature games.
Partly think you're right, but also seems to be the new blood in the management/design I think it was? I remember hearing it from another podcast I believe, with them injecting a much needed swathe of enthusiasm for 'fun' detachments for those that won't get a codex for god knows how long.
However, it could be argued that they couldn't cook up 31 detachments overnight and have the graphics department prepare 31 (times number of languages) PDF files for download. It would take time to do this and to "playtest" them to some level which suggests that "24 Days of Grotmas" was planned well in advance. The fact that months before, in their Deathwatch "apology", they were able to say "Just wait until December!" I don't speak for all players, but I'm much too invested in 40k (time, money, and effort) to just wander off to other games. Well, not true, I do get involved in other games, but it's not for boredom or lack of interest with 40k. More of a FOMO kind of thing... Clash of Steel... Bolt Action v3... etc. as I always say: Too many games, too little time.
All rules, detachments and codex’s should be free digitally. People will pay money for lore/art books for each faction. Miniatures are already pricey enough as is.
Working for the local LGS that has a very active Warhammer community with new people coming in all the time, the major thing I HATE telling new players especially those who want to play factions like Dark Angels, Blood Angels, etc that they need to buy 2 different codex books to be able to run everything they want. $100 in books that are out of date before they hit my shelves is ridiculous. If they did codex codes for $20usd each for the app, it would sell in droves.
I wish they would sell codes to the rules. They can also sell books full of fluff and pictures and all that too. But sell a code for even £20 quid it would be pure profit with no need to pay shipping, printing, design etc.
Personal opinion. They released the detachments to build up goodwill for the roughly 10% price increase coming at some point this year. Hoping I’m wrong.
Also to note they specifically saod the grotmas detachmente are codex complient. Which is why some feel weaker than indexes because when codexes come out they seem to ne generally toned down from index
I bet they were testing stronger detachments that will be in the new codexs. For example the Imperial Knights infantry support is the biggest thing they are missing. They have attempted that with allowing mech. I think they need sapper units and fire directors that can give the big units support buffs like indirect fire.
In my opinion, codexes now should just contain lore, painting guides, and crusade rules. The datasheets and points should be on the app only; whether you buy the codex and get the code still or you buy the rules digitally, I don't mind, but the codexes should no longer have datasheets and points if they are wrong on release or are going to change in the future, making them obsolete.
If we are going off of the predicted 3 year lifespan of an edition, there are 13 armies without codexes with about 18 months. Now if you want a healthy 6 months at the end for balance and people can play, that’s like 1 codex every 3 weeks
and then they’ll abandon it all for a new edition for no actual reason. Why tf do we have planned obsolescence in a game where you’re meant to keep your models and rulebooks forever???
Biggest gripe is the slow release and expecting players to pay full price for rules for half an edition. Either extend the edition times or faster release schedule. I get there are some changes with army models and refreshes etc. But the poster boys get a full edition of rules and updates while armies like World Eaters get shafted and have less than half an edition of rules and (good changes instead of unwarranted nerfs) updates. Sorry but GW have dropped the ball on 10th majorly and need to reel this in for 11th. All in my opinion here
Less than half an edition?! If only we were so lucky! My poor World Eaters didn't even get *half a god damned MONTH* by the time we finally got our codices delivered in-store!
Interesting to see you discuss codexes being sold with incorrect rules. I always thought this was bordering on illegal - I'm buying a rule book, that functionally doesn't contain valid rules. Personally I've not bought any codex in 10th. Not wasting my money on reused art with rules I have to update myself anyway.
I've said for a while, they should release lore books for each army but no data sheets. Then the actual mechanical rules and data sheets, detachments etc. should be free to download.
well GW have mentioned 2025 as year of Chaos, so my guess is all 4 chaos legions this year with EC first then DG as we have already seen a DG leak, what of the two other legions after i don't know. as for the SW or new Primarch rumors is end 10th we will have a Campaign with the release of Russ and Perturabo, but remember rumors is rumors. but i really want Perturabo. we also have rumors of new models coming for the main SM codex chapters Terminator Character or unit for Iron Hands, Khan on bike for white scars and something for raven guard but in a new direction what i don't know.
Personally I think Codexes should just be for lore and Crusade and then make the rules free or have a qr code on the data cards so you can unlock them that way
well all the rumors say that the Daemons will be rolled into their respective legions. so DG with Nurgle Daemons, TS with Tzentz Daemons, EC with Slaanesh Daemons and WE with Khorne Daemons. only model that don't fit into a place is Be'lakor as the soul grinder will be removed as it has already been removed from AoS. so i think Daemons will be as an Index or removed then come back as people will complain about it, but i don't think we will get a Daemon Codex.
Soul grinders are still for sale on their website despite being removed from AoS, if they where being axed from 40k they’d be unavailable for purchase already. Good chance they’ll just be repackaged for 40k and put into CSM seeing as vashtorr is the one who makes them and the artwork for soulforged pact has a soul grinder in it (and when vashtor inevitably goes to the dark mechanicum codex they’ll prob follow). And bel’lakor will prob go to CSM like in AoS, at least until there’s a better place for him.
2 дня назад
Soul grinder isn’t getting removed lmaooo if anything they’ll heavily expand on that design concept for vashtorr Belakor will get a detachment in the csm codex most likely
GW seems to be in a tough spot of catering to the casual and competitive player. The casual and narrative players probably aren’t keeping up with all these updates so they only buy the codex and stuff and they are good. But for the competitive player this REALLY sucks. Having to buy a codex + index cards that will be completely outdated and buy a Warhammer + sub is insane
I honestly can’t say I agree. I think asking for 60$ for a rulebook (with an ANEMIC amount of rules in it) after asking for hundreds for little plastic soldiers is possibly the nail on the head keeping many people out of the game. Everyone would benefit from free, online rules (GW included). It would strengthen the playerbase, make balancing easier and less annoying with endless numbers of documents when everything can be kept on one spot. And it would leave tje door open for the codexes to become gorgeous art and lore books that fans would EAT UP
I mean it’s free stuff but creations of bile made me buy Fabius bile and some more infantry units sooo it’s a smart move. Free stuff like this makes people excited about the game and in this case reforms their armies to play the new fun stuff
Yeah im definitely getting World eater at the end of 9th edition vibes from the Space Wolves this edition. I just hope they dont gut what makes them unique. We shall see!
Grotmas rules were awesome - but would be nice (speaking for Deathwatch) if they'd updated the app so you could use the new index to build an army. Why they can't get all of this lined up is beyond me - seems pretty critical for GW right now to fully embrace digital, work out a cost model that keeps the rules/indexes a subscription service with frequently updated apps and then keep the lore in Codexes per chapter which are all fluff, painting guides, etc for each. Feels like they're missing the goal with everyone at the moment and for sure leaving money on the table.
I think they released the index daemons' detachments to preemptive the removal of the codex. They will be mixed into the god specific codex. The unknown is what models go into the specific gods (new units or removal of resin.) and what will CSM get.
I expect csm will stay the same (with the up to 25% daemon allies) because they will have a larger pure csm model range than any of the monogod codexes will so dont need the extra roster as much. Pure daemons might be an additional detachment they release for free so that people who want to can still play their pure daemons lists. I doubt they will remove all the forgeworld resin daemons from the monogod books, because when you look at any pure monogod daemon's unit options there arent *that* many so i reckon the named greater daemon characters will stick around.
Yeah... so looking forwards to my World Eaters being 10% actual World Eaters options, and 90% Daemons & mortals >.< For feth's sake, if this is how we're going to be treated, can we just squat the entire army and roll us back into CSM's? At least I'll have more than 2 actual Chaos Marine options to choose from, plus gain access Vindicators again! (...seriously, explain to why the hell we randomly don't get Vindicators anymore!?)
@drunkenastarte5243 yeah i dislike the skew mindset GW have taken with the monogod legions. As if being close combat or magic oriented or whatever would mean they dont bother with some of the csm tanks or possessed etc
As a Thousand Sons player since 4th edition, I look forward to being able to field my Thousand Sons AND Tzeentch demons in one army again (whether as a single detachment or allied force) if that means being able to summon demons with Icons or psychic powers again. Let all the mono Chaos gods get a similar "Daemonkin" treatment as separate Legion unit datasheets are limiting with few specific units + CSM units with marks---add in the demons.
I have only played since 8th and I have to say that 10ths idea is by far the best and makes the game the least confusing. My only problems is that there aren’t enough detachments for many factions/core playstyles are missing. Example of my 2 main armies: Tyranids missing a dedicated shooting detachment, however, shooting bugs are viable almost everywhere throughout datasheet strength alone and certain stratagems in some detachments. GSC dropping the ball with Guard souping, therefore derailing that detachment. and missing the admech style detachment that makes units more tanky and gives exceptions through bionics. But my main problem and what I loved about 8th especially was the customization and combos possible with warlord traits and relics. I hope that comes back
Just a thought, aren't GW straying into / have left themselves open to law suits from trading standards? They are knowingly producing multiple out of date products which the consumer has no choice but to buy in order to play the game?
Coolest thing they could do for the Chaos factions is: 4 daemon specific codices, Chaos Knights, Dark Mechanicum, Heretics (BL, WB, chaos guard and Chaos Undivided) and Renegades (NL, IW (perhaps also include Vasshtor), AL and Redcorsairs and perhaps also a renegade guard)
Im so torn on kit bashing true scale grey knights or just waiting for the possibility of the range refresh with all the new terminator stuff coming out and being rumored to come out.
ive heard they hired a new guy with alot of experience with game releases and community interactions and that he pushed this free stuff to be released.
I do think they add the rules to the codex book for the same reason as the points. You might not even play Warhammer very often or are even interested in keeping up to date. Just as you have another games like Catan or whatever, you pick the box, read the rules and play. In this case, you are given a version of the rules, so you can pick your miniatures and your book from the shelf, create a list with those points, and play using your rulebook. It will not be updated, but even 6 years from now if you never buy anything new and/or the company even dies and stop hosting digital rules, you have A WAY of playing the game with the rules you bought.
I've been playing drukhari only just before 10th came out. To me they Reapers Wager detachment is fun but not complete. If you are going to make it a contest between the Drukhari and the Clowns then in addition to allowing an even split of points between the two armies, that you should also allow the Harlequins to bring their rightful compliment of fate dice. Then its truly a contest between the two factions at their finest.
As a well known, publicly traded company whose main output is mass production of plastic models, I would imagine there will be increasing pressure to reduce their carbon footprint in some other way to offset it. Perhaps that would mean a push for digitalisation of codexes, or certainly more thought into more longevity in codexes.
I was going to buy the new Guard Krieg box set to get the codex early. The preview that came out on Warhammer Community showing that generic infantry squads are removed has just stopped me having any interest in it. What with that and the codex being out of date almost instantly, it just doesn't seem worth getting.
For the loyalist primarch release as equal attention cake I actually suspect refreshed Guilliman. With new centerpeace models he really stands apart in mediocareness in comparison
2 дня назад+1
Guilleman is a loyalist abandon equivalent and I find that so hilarious
Codexes should go to being straight fluff and crusade rules. Competitive rules and data sheets should be sold as part of the subscription. Just increase the monthly cost slightly and charge a one time fee to unlock a faction. Maybe $9.99/month and $15 for an unlock. You can get then fluff and crusades as an option (maybe change $25) and avoids the moral questions of selling out of date rules for competitive play.
to the who would buy the codex question : make the rules free. Make the codexes into art and lorebooks. I would actually buy codex that are not from my armies lol.
I would love to see the option in the app to purchase a codex at a reduced cost as I only want the rules. It would bring in money from people who wouldnt buy a codex but a cheaper digital rules only edition
I want to spend my skrillah on all the awesome models. And I will buy models in various armies if I am not inhibited by paying for the rules. Make the game digital and free, let the nerds by the toys.
Yeah boys then you get something like the Space Wolves detachment supposed to be Grimnars Great Company but doesn't actually do anything at all worthwhile for your Wolfguard Terminators etc. It's just bad.
Great conversation about daemons going forward. Don't forget about Vashtorr and the Dark Mech! I think they will have a Daemon Engine book with chaos skitarri/cultists at some point
Impossible but i would like World Eaters Daemons to be different to the chaos daemons similar to genestealers. I liked bringing Khorne daemons with my world eaters but the fact that they didnt get any of their rules was sad. Having them be the same models with different datasheets would be great so that they can be balanced separately
I’m absolutely done with edition restarts. I never minded edition changes when your older edition codex stayed in the game. Index restarts every few years is horrendously expensive, and ultimately leaves players with no codex for an entire edition, then they buy it and immediately have no codex for the next edition… it’s just a lose lose, manufactured artificially by GW.
totally agree with your take on the fans, theres always salty bellends who complain about everything. 10th is pretty good far from the best (8th was) but its great
Spider is right they didnt beat the 30K version - the newer one is just more practibel to transport ^^ The rumor for TS is that we get out AUtomatas from 30K what would also be a good choice
I really hope they don't put Daemons into the Legion books. I like the armies being separate and don't think they should play similar enough to be in the same book. I also think the Daemon Allies would have to be redone if there were now 4 new combined books. Just not a fan of that though I'll still play the armies if they do so.
2 дня назад+2
So you’d prefer 4 quarters of seperate armies with no real synergy and 90% of the datasheets being characters over something that would expand the monogod legions? I don’t understand other daemons players man. It’s the army I play primarily but it’s objectively really poorly designed and needs some sort of drastic overhaul. It’s not as if mixed god lists are even particularly viable beyond jamming flamers and nurglings in everything
I didn't say that. I also think that Daemons could use an overhaul but I don't think splitting them up and jamming them in with Marines is the answer. When I play Daemons, I want to feel like I am playing Daemons and not glorified allies to Marines, which would probably be what they would end up as. Having 1 Detachment per god along with an Undivided Detachment seems decent, and is on par with what others are getting.
If I choose to play World Eaters, then I want to play you know, *actual World Eaters Chaos Marines*, not have a book that's 2 Marine units, 3 HQ's and the other 90% of the codex being a mix of Daemons/mortals/AoS rejects! Where are our; - generic Chaos Lords on foot + termie armour - Red Butcher Terminators - Berserker Surgeons - crazy 'gladiatorial themed' unit - Teeth of Khorne - Vindicators - Jugger Cavalry (...honestly I'm not too keen on these, but since our only Lord option is mounted on one, he needs a proper unit to go with him instead of stupid "not Possessed" no one asked for)
as someone new to the hobby, I honestly could not believe how the app worked. How you had to buy each individual codex. Physical copies too, can't just get a digital code. Oh, and the rules arent even up to date? gotta buy it anyway.. I honestly thought I was the stupid one and didn't understand how the app worked. absolutely insane. Thank god there are free alternative websites to use. But holy, what a way to fumble something so simple for the sake of squeezing extra dollars out of their fans. OH YEAH, and there's a subscription required to do anything worthwhile on it to begin with! Who cares about long term rep when the money can appear right now /s.
The Rules and Datasheets for everything are available online for free. That is the reality we allready live in. It's no longer the 1990s... Also apps like New Recruit exist. So selling Books that are wrong, for Rules you can get Online for free, to bring you to make a list with their payed app, which even with subscribtion is just as good as the free alternative... Is just not a valid Plan for the future anymore.
10th certainly isn't the worst thing GW have ever made but it's not been great either, thankfully it's not a total dumpster fire like 7th edition was with some of those ridiculous formations. (The core rules of 7th were mostly fine IMO) For me it just isn't very interesting to play, and thats mostly down to the mission structure and the lack of narrative options.
You can tell the person making the Votan and templars detachments has only ever played those armies in passing if ever at all. They are just too weak for competitive play.
I think we will see chaos armies coming right after the 3 we know are coming so after IG, Eldar, imp knights come out we will get thousand sons, death guard, World eaters and Emperors children then i suspect another duel release with Demons and Grey Knights (with new models). But our last codex of the year will have space wolves and the return of Russ. When they do a start up for 11th instead of a simple 2 player starter we will see salamanders vs Orks with necrons coming out right after and story wise a 3 faction war. With both the Salamanders and Orks going after Trazyn cause they find out he has both Vulcan and the Beast trapped in those crystals and trying to release them for their factions. That will lead to Trazyn releasing a new model to try to recapture them (new C’tan or a new unit)
Look. I'm a World Eaters player and I really like the new detachment, but I still think Grotmas was just a sales push. There were too many detachments focusing on things that obviously weren't selling. Too many "now go buy another army" detachments. Free is free though. These are fine when they're free. I am absolutely done with rules in codexes. Codexes should be lore and collection supplements and that's it. I'm seriously not looking forward to only having a (WE) codex for 5 months before 11th (again). Oh, and it'll be invalid within weeks of release. I'm done with it. 2025. We need to move on. Please. Digital Rules for all. It will HELP YOUR SALES GW. NONE OF US WANT TO BUY THESE THINGS ANYMORE.
the only reason they are making money is cuz they raise their prices every quarter...its not a sustainable model. also GW had digital books waaaay back when they first released the first AoS app. most people dont remember that
Personally, and I have absolutely *no* evidence to it ever happening, it's just me wishfully thinking xD, I'd love to see three books: - Chaos Demons - Heretic Astartes (Traitor Legions, Renegades, etc) - The Lost and the Damned (cultists, Traitor Guard, Radical Inquisition (?), etc)
there should be the option for both. freely choose between faster lists like now or more specific into depth list like before were u can really adjust for your needs.
*Some* wargear needs to come back. There’s no point in pointing the few options an intercessor squad has, but something like Plague Marines really needs to have some different points for options. The squad sizes I don’t personally care as much about but that’s because my armies (Tau and Marines) aren’t really hit that hard by it in my experience.
Slaanesh armies? Chaos players are extremely well known for wanting to play their squads in combinations of each God's sacred number Also, flexibility... personally, I just like the look and feel of 6 vs. 5 for smaller squads or things like scouts, etc...
It should also be D10 to give better variation between factions and between units within each faction.
2 дня назад
@@spazhazzardyeah 100% this the scale everything works on is too low and spikes extremely hard as a result. The difference between a 1W model and 2W model is absolutely huge and there’s no middle ground
They really need to go to a full digital rules set. Release a lore and art book for each faction with all that part of what’s In the codex that you can buy if you want it. But all the rules should be digital at this point if they are updating them this often. I bet most players will love it and they will be willing to spend the 200 that would be on books on new minis instead
They are!? It's the 40k App which is updated with all of the latest data slates and balance changes?
Still have to pay to unlock data cards on the app but wahpedia has the info. So it’s completely pointless to have that paywall
I too think that there needs to be a drastic change regarding codexes and how they are updated. The most logical way to to this moving forward, would be to release beautiful fluffy books that are optional, alongside a digital faction codex that gets updated regularly with the new data sheets.
@@martinhatch You have to buy everything. That's stupid. One sub fee for all rules, i am fine with that.
That would be the most consumer friendly move and, therefore, I doubt it will happen.
Codex should be art, lore, and a campaign specific to that army with flexible enemies so you are enticed to buy the book as a collectors item and a campaign
Yeah. Painting guides, colour schemes, anything that doesnt become invalid sometimes even on the day of release!
Whoever edited this did a brilliant job!
My personal opinion. They released the new detachments because of how slow the releases have been this year. It’s a move to keep the fanbase engaged so their eyes don’t wander to other miniature games.
Partly think you're right, but also seems to be the new blood in the management/design I think it was? I remember hearing it from another podcast I believe, with them injecting a much needed swathe of enthusiasm for 'fun' detachments for those that won't get a codex for god knows how long.
However, it could be argued that they couldn't cook up 31 detachments overnight and have the graphics department prepare 31 (times number of languages) PDF files for download. It would take time to do this and to "playtest" them to some level which suggests that "24 Days of Grotmas" was planned well in advance. The fact that months before, in their Deathwatch "apology", they were able to say "Just wait until December!"
I don't speak for all players, but I'm much too invested in 40k (time, money, and effort) to just wander off to other games. Well, not true, I do get involved in other games, but it's not for boredom or lack of interest with 40k. More of a FOMO kind of thing... Clash of Steel... Bolt Action v3... etc. as I always say: Too many games, too little time.
All rules, detachments and codex’s should be free digitally. People will pay money for lore/art books for each faction. Miniatures are already pricey enough as is.
Will you do a age of Sigmar version? Is it too much to ask for a ogor mawtribe refresh
36:55 as a Grey Knights hardcore fan, I feel your pain...
Working for the local LGS that has a very active Warhammer community with new people coming in all the time, the major thing I HATE telling new players especially those who want to play factions like Dark Angels, Blood Angels, etc that they need to buy 2 different codex books to be able to run everything they want. $100 in books that are out of date before they hit my shelves is ridiculous. If they did codex codes for $20usd each for the app, it would sell in droves.
I wish they would sell codes to the rules. They can also sell books full of fluff and pictures and all that too. But sell a code for even £20 quid it would be pure profit with no need to pay shipping, printing, design etc.
It's a madness that they don't do this
Personal opinion. They released the detachments to build up goodwill for the roughly 10% price increase coming at some point this year. Hoping I’m wrong.
Happy new Year. Fulgrim is revealed.
James Workshop i'm begging you, please please release Asdrubael Vect from whatever dark prison you're keeping him in
And he needs to be a centerpiece like the Triumph of St. Katherine
Also to note they specifically saod the grotmas detachmente are codex complient. Which is why some feel weaker than indexes because when codexes come out they seem to ne generally toned down from index
I bet they were testing stronger detachments that will be in the new codexs. For example the Imperial Knights infantry support is the biggest thing they are missing. They have attempted that with allowing mech. I think they need sapper units and fire directors that can give the big units support buffs like indirect fire.
Hoping for the other half of my Votann army. 😀
I’m dying the fulgrim photo bombs have me in stitches omg just pure gold boys keep it up love you guys
In my opinion, codexes now should just contain lore, painting guides, and crusade rules. The datasheets and points should be on the app only; whether you buy the codex and get the code still or you buy the rules digitally, I don't mind, but the codexes should no longer have datasheets and points if they are wrong on release or are going to change in the future, making them obsolete.
The edits are cracking me up.
If we are going off of the predicted 3 year lifespan of an edition, there are 13 armies without codexes with about 18 months. Now if you want a healthy 6 months at the end for balance and people can play, that’s like 1 codex every 3 weeks
And we all know that won't happen.
and then they’ll abandon it all for a new edition for no actual reason. Why tf do we have planned obsolescence in a game where you’re meant to keep your models and rulebooks forever???
Biggest gripe is the slow release and expecting players to pay full price for rules for half an edition. Either extend the edition times or faster release schedule.
I get there are some changes with army models and refreshes etc. But the poster boys get a full edition of rules and updates while armies like World Eaters get shafted and have less than half an edition of rules and (good changes instead of unwarranted nerfs) updates. Sorry but GW have dropped the ball on 10th majorly and need to reel this in for 11th.
All in my opinion here
Less than half an edition?! If only we were so lucky!
My poor World Eaters didn't even get *half a god damned MONTH* by the time we finally got our codices delivered in-store!
Interesting to see you discuss codexes being sold with incorrect rules. I always thought this was bordering on illegal - I'm buying a rule book, that functionally doesn't contain valid rules.
Personally I've not bought any codex in 10th. Not wasting my money on reused art with rules I have to update myself anyway.
I've said for a while, they should release lore books for each army but no data sheets. Then the actual mechanical rules and data sheets, detachments etc. should be free to download.
well GW have mentioned 2025 as year of Chaos, so my guess is all 4 chaos legions this year with EC first then DG as we have already seen a DG leak, what of the two other legions after i don't know.
as for the SW or new Primarch rumors is end 10th we will have a Campaign with the release of Russ and Perturabo, but remember rumors is rumors.
but i really want Perturabo.
we also have rumors of new models coming for the main SM codex chapters Terminator Character or unit for Iron Hands, Khan on bike for white scars and something for raven guard but in a new direction what i don't know.
Really fascinating conversation. Thanks for your insights gents.
Personally I think Codexes should just be for lore and Crusade and then make the rules free or have a qr code on the data cards so you can unlock them that way
well all the rumors say that the Daemons will be rolled into their respective legions.
so DG with Nurgle Daemons, TS with Tzentz Daemons, EC with Slaanesh Daemons and WE with Khorne Daemons.
only model that don't fit into a place is Be'lakor as the soul grinder will be removed as it has already been removed from AoS.
so i think Daemons will be as an Index or removed then come back as people will complain about it, but i don't think we will get a Daemon Codex.
Soul grinders are still for sale on their website despite being removed from AoS, if they where being axed from 40k they’d be unavailable for purchase already. Good chance they’ll just be repackaged for 40k and put into CSM seeing as vashtorr is the one who makes them and the artwork for soulforged pact has a soul grinder in it (and when vashtor inevitably goes to the dark mechanicum codex they’ll prob follow).
And bel’lakor will prob go to CSM like in AoS, at least until there’s a better place for him.
Soul grinder isn’t getting removed lmaooo if anything they’ll heavily expand on that design concept for vashtorr
Belakor will get a detachment in the csm codex most likely
Prefect example of some detachments made for a future codex is tsons. That detachment makes alot more sense woth tzeetch daemons in that codex.
It’s the only way it makes sense and it’s essentially guaranteeing a daemon roll-in because otherwise that codex shouldn’t be made
I'm with you, Lawrence. Bring Daemonkin back - it's my favorite army of all time.
It's going to be a very exciting year!
The Fulgrim bit was hilarious 😂
GW seems to be in a tough spot of catering to the casual and competitive player. The casual and narrative players probably aren’t keeping up with all these updates so they only buy the codex and stuff and they are good. But for the competitive player this REALLY sucks. Having to buy a codex + index cards that will be completely outdated and buy a Warhammer + sub is insane
I honestly can’t say I agree. I think asking for 60$ for a rulebook (with an ANEMIC amount of rules in it) after asking for hundreds for little plastic soldiers is possibly the nail on the head keeping many people out of the game. Everyone would benefit from free, online rules (GW included). It would strengthen the playerbase, make balancing easier and less annoying with endless numbers of documents when everything can be kept on one spot. And it would leave tje door open for the codexes to become gorgeous art and lore books that fans would EAT UP
I mean it’s free stuff but creations of bile made me buy Fabius bile and some more infantry units sooo it’s a smart move. Free stuff like this makes people excited about the game and in this case reforms their armies to play the new fun stuff
Yeah im definitely getting World eater at the end of 9th edition vibes from the Space Wolves this edition. I just hope they dont gut what makes them unique. We shall see!
That is the most glorious room full of beautiful armies. The dream
Grotmas rules were awesome - but would be nice (speaking for Deathwatch) if they'd updated the app so you could use the new index to build an army. Why they can't get all of this lined up is beyond me - seems pretty critical for GW right now to fully embrace digital, work out a cost model that keeps the rules/indexes a subscription service with frequently updated apps and then keep the lore in Codexes per chapter which are all fluff, painting guides, etc for each. Feels like they're missing the goal with everyone at the moment and for sure leaving money on the table.
I think they released the index daemons' detachments to preemptive the removal of the codex. They will be mixed into the god specific codex. The unknown is what models go into the specific gods (new units or removal of resin.) and what will CSM get.
I expect csm will stay the same (with the up to 25% daemon allies) because they will have a larger pure csm model range than any of the monogod codexes will so dont need the extra roster as much.
Pure daemons might be an additional detachment they release for free so that people who want to can still play their pure daemons lists.
I doubt they will remove all the forgeworld resin daemons from the monogod books, because when you look at any pure monogod daemon's unit options there arent *that* many so i reckon the named greater daemon characters will stick around.
Yeah... so looking forwards to my World Eaters being 10% actual World Eaters options, and 90% Daemons & mortals >.<
For feth's sake, if this is how we're going to be treated, can we just squat the entire army and roll us back into CSM's?
At least I'll have more than 2 actual Chaos Marine options to choose from, plus gain access Vindicators again! (...seriously, explain to why the hell we randomly don't get Vindicators anymore!?)
@drunkenastarte5243 yeah i dislike the skew mindset GW have taken with the monogod legions. As if being close combat or magic oriented or whatever would mean they dont bother with some of the csm tanks or possessed etc
As a Thousand Sons player since 4th edition, I look forward to being able to field my Thousand Sons AND Tzeentch demons in one army again (whether as a single detachment or allied force) if that means being able to summon demons with Icons or psychic powers again. Let all the mono Chaos gods get a similar "Daemonkin" treatment as separate Legion unit datasheets are limiting with few specific units + CSM units with marks---add in the demons.
Great watch!
I have only played since 8th and I have to say that 10ths idea is by far the best and makes the game the least confusing.
My only problems is that there aren’t enough detachments for many factions/core playstyles are missing.
Example of my 2 main armies:
Tyranids missing a dedicated shooting detachment, however, shooting bugs are viable almost everywhere throughout datasheet strength alone and certain stratagems in some detachments.
GSC dropping the ball with Guard souping, therefore derailing that detachment. and missing the admech style detachment that makes units more tanky and gives exceptions through bionics.
But my main problem and what I loved about 8th especially was the customization and combos possible with warlord traits and relics. I hope that comes back
Just a thought, aren't GW straying into / have left themselves open to law suits from trading standards? They are knowingly producing multiple out of date products which the consumer has no choice but to buy in order to play the game?
Possibly, which is probably why they've begun digitizing things so they can point at the app and say, "it's up to date here"
Coolest thing they could do for the Chaos factions is: 4 daemon specific codices, Chaos Knights, Dark Mechanicum, Heretics (BL, WB, chaos guard and Chaos Undivided) and Renegades (NL, IW (perhaps also include Vasshtor), AL and Redcorsairs and perhaps also a renegade guard)
Im so torn on kit bashing true scale grey knights or just waiting for the possibility of the range refresh with all the new terminator stuff coming out and being rumored to come out.
ive heard they hired a new guy with alot of experience with game releases and community interactions and that he pushed this free stuff to be released.
What a conspicuous host, indeed!
edit on this is 10/10. insert+horn didnt stop making me laugh
I do think they add the rules to the codex book for the same reason as the points. You might not even play Warhammer very often or are even interested in keeping up to date. Just as you have another games like Catan or whatever, you pick the box, read the rules and play.
In this case, you are given a version of the rules, so you can pick your miniatures and your book from the shelf, create a list with those points, and play using your rulebook.
It will not be updated, but even 6 years from now if you never buy anything new and/or the company even dies and stop hosting digital rules, you have A WAY of playing the game with the rules you bought.
What a massive host
Do u guys have a podcast? Or plan to do more long form style conversations was really good 👍
The guy who made his Grey Knight baby carrier look good by slapping dreadnaught bodies and bits on top of it is the only redeeming thing to that kit
I've been playing drukhari only just before 10th came out. To me they Reapers Wager detachment is fun but not complete. If you are going to make it a contest between the Drukhari and the Clowns then in addition to allowing an even split of points between the two armies, that you should also allow the Harlequins to bring their rightful compliment of fate dice. Then its truly a contest between the two factions at their finest.
I feel like they need to go to one consolidated rules App and then they can print out the fluff and story in the CODEX books. along with art and such.
A sonic pistol is just a megaphone
They said in the imperial agents codex announcement that the grey knights were coming out 2025.
As a well known, publicly traded company whose main output is mass production of plastic models, I would imagine there will be increasing pressure to reduce their carbon footprint in some other way to offset it. Perhaps that would mean a push for digitalisation of codexes, or certainly more thought into more longevity in codexes.
I was going to buy the new Guard Krieg box set to get the codex early. The preview that came out on Warhammer Community showing that generic infantry squads are removed has just stopped me having any interest in it. What with that and the codex being out of date almost instantly, it just doesn't seem worth getting.
For the loyalist primarch release as equal attention cake I actually suspect refreshed Guilliman. With new centerpeace models he really stands apart in mediocareness in comparison
Guilleman is a loyalist abandon equivalent and I find that so hilarious
I have total hobby burnout just now. Haven’t paid attention to much WH Community rules lately and I haven’t painted since October. Help!
"Hello and Welcome back to Tabletop Tactics.
WELCOME BACK! I got two turntables and a microphoooooone".
I am definitely underwhelmed with how long it’s taking them to update the app.
New player here, but I don't know what you're talking about with "wanting to play daemons in chaos space marines..." Because you can...
Any plans on doing some more Old World content now that more factions have come out?
Huge prices are on the way....of that we can be sure
I'm holding off on overly expanding my Grey Knight force that's my 10th ed army.
If they get a new model range, I'm going all in
Codexes should go to being straight fluff and crusade rules. Competitive rules and data sheets should be sold as part of the subscription. Just increase the monthly cost slightly and charge a one time fee to unlock a faction. Maybe $9.99/month and $15 for an unlock. You can get then fluff and crusades as an option (maybe change $25) and avoids the moral questions of selling out of date rules for competitive play.
Ten bucks a month subscription for basic rules? Why in the name of the False Emperor would you want that?
to the who would buy the codex question : make the rules free. Make the codexes into art and lorebooks. I would actually buy codex that are not from my armies lol.
I would love to see the option in the app to purchase a codex at a reduced cost as I only want the rules. It would bring in money from people who wouldnt buy a codex but a cheaper digital rules only edition
I want to spend my skrillah on all the awesome models. And I will buy models in various armies if I am not inhibited by paying for the rules. Make the game digital and free, let the nerds by the toys.
They need to do Lore and art books -- that are just for people to buy, and yeah.
I like the codex book. Pretty pictures, lore I don’t know yet. The tabletop war games as video game is not better for it, to me.
What about traitor Primaris? In the fluff it would make sense in a couple of years that they also turn to the dark side.
Yeah boys then you get something like the Space Wolves detachment supposed to be Grimnars Great Company but doesn't actually do anything at all worthwhile for your Wolfguard Terminators etc. It's just bad.
I honestly don’t want all new Grey Knight army models, I like that they’re small. A new dreadknights, and Kaldor Draigo would be nice.
Great conversation about daemons going forward. Don't forget about Vashtorr and the Dark Mech! I think they will have a Daemon Engine book with chaos skitarri/cultists at some point
No one even mentioned Votann....... The newest factuon with the least amount of models.
Impossible but i would like World Eaters Daemons to be different to the chaos daemons similar to genestealers.
I liked bringing Khorne daemons with my world eaters but the fact that they didnt get any of their rules was sad.
Having them be the same models with different datasheets would be great so that they can be balanced separately
If GW gave us all free detachments because codexes were delayed. Why the hell were armies with no codexes getting their grotmas detachment last!?!?!
I’m absolutely done with edition restarts.
I never minded edition changes when your older edition codex stayed in the game.
Index restarts every few years is horrendously expensive, and ultimately leaves players with no codex for an entire edition, then they buy it and immediately have no codex for the next edition… it’s just a lose lose, manufactured artificially by GW.
Grey Knights with Primaris tanks and walkers. Another Rhino army retired.
totally agree with your take on the fans, theres always salty bellends who complain about everything. 10th is pretty good far from the best (8th was) but its great
Dark angels/ ad mech codex are just art books
Spider is right they didnt beat the 30K version - the newer one is just more practibel to transport ^^
The rumor for TS is that we get out AUtomatas from 30K what would also be a good choice
Votaan please, I’m still waiting patiently for the second wave
I really hope they don't put Daemons into the Legion books. I like the armies being separate and don't think they should play similar enough to be in the same book. I also think the Daemon Allies would have to be redone if there were now 4 new combined books. Just not a fan of that though I'll still play the armies if they do so.
So you’d prefer 4 quarters of seperate armies with no real synergy and 90% of the datasheets being characters over something that would expand the monogod legions?
I don’t understand other daemons players man. It’s the army I play primarily but it’s objectively really poorly designed and needs some sort of drastic overhaul. It’s not as if mixed god lists are even particularly viable beyond jamming flamers and nurglings in everything
I didn't say that. I also think that Daemons could use an overhaul but I don't think splitting them up and jamming them in with Marines is the answer. When I play Daemons, I want to feel like I am playing Daemons and not glorified allies to Marines, which would probably be what they would end up as. Having 1 Detachment per god along with an Undivided Detachment seems decent, and is on par with what others are getting.
If I choose to play World Eaters, then I want to play you know, *actual World Eaters Chaos Marines*, not have a book that's 2 Marine units, 3 HQ's and the other 90% of the codex being a mix of Daemons/mortals/AoS rejects!
Where are our;
- generic Chaos Lords on foot + termie armour
- Red Butcher Terminators
- Berserker Surgeons
- crazy 'gladiatorial themed' unit
- Teeth of Khorne
- Vindicators
- Jugger Cavalry (...honestly I'm not too keen on these, but since our only Lord option is mounted on one, he needs a proper unit to go with him instead of stupid "not Possessed" no one asked for)
always buy the codexes, just use the rules in the books, i play with friends anyway, ignore competitive rule update mess
as someone new to the hobby, I honestly could not believe how the app worked. How you had to buy each individual codex. Physical copies too, can't just get a digital code. Oh, and the rules arent even up to date? gotta buy it anyway.. I honestly thought I was the stupid one and didn't understand how the app worked. absolutely insane. Thank god there are free alternative websites to use. But holy, what a way to fumble something so simple for the sake of squeezing extra dollars out of their fans. OH YEAH, and there's a subscription required to do anything worthwhile on it to begin with!
Who cares about long term rep when the money can appear right now /s.
I'm about to start Ad Mech and the idea of paying $60 for a code is awful.
The Rules and Datasheets for everything are available online for free.
That is the reality we allready live in. It's no longer the 1990s...
Also apps like New Recruit exist.
So selling Books that are wrong, for Rules you can get Online for free, to bring you to make a list with their payed app, which even with subscribtion is just as good as the free alternative...
Is just not a valid Plan for the future anymore.
10th certainly isn't the worst thing GW have ever made but it's not been great either, thankfully it's not a total dumpster fire like 7th edition was with some of those ridiculous formations. (The core rules of 7th were mostly fine IMO)
For me it just isn't very interesting to play, and thats mostly down to the mission structure and the lack of narrative options.
You can tell the person making the Votan and templars detachments has only ever played those armies in passing if ever at all.
They are just too weak for competitive play.
I think we will see chaos armies coming right after the 3 we know are coming so after IG, Eldar, imp knights come out we will get thousand sons, death guard, World eaters and Emperors children then i suspect another duel release with Demons and Grey Knights (with new models). But our last codex of the year will have space wolves and the return of Russ. When they do a start up for 11th instead of a simple 2 player starter we will see salamanders vs Orks with necrons coming out right after and story wise a 3 faction war. With both the Salamanders and Orks going after Trazyn cause they find out he has both Vulcan and the Beast trapped in those crystals and trying to release them for their factions. That will lead to Trazyn releasing a new model to try to recapture them (new C’tan or a new unit)
Look. I'm a World Eaters player and I really like the new detachment, but I still think Grotmas was just a sales push. There were too many detachments focusing on things that obviously weren't selling. Too many "now go buy another army" detachments.
Free is free though. These are fine when they're free. I am absolutely done with rules in codexes. Codexes should be lore and collection supplements and that's it. I'm seriously not looking forward to only having a (WE) codex for 5 months before 11th (again). Oh, and it'll be invalid within weeks of release. I'm done with it. 2025. We need to move on. Please.
Digital Rules for all. It will HELP YOUR SALES GW. NONE OF US WANT TO BUY THESE THINGS ANYMORE.
I would rather have a subscription service for the rules datasheets and the rest. Let the books be lore
No subscriptions for basic rules. Just...no.
Glory to the Lords of chaos
the only reason they are making money is cuz they raise their prices every quarter...its not a sustainable model. also GW had digital books waaaay back when they first released the first AoS app. most people dont remember that
❤
Personally, and I have absolutely *no* evidence to it ever happening, it's just me wishfully thinking xD, I'd love to see three books:
- Chaos Demons
- Heretic Astartes (Traitor Legions, Renegades, etc)
- The Lost and the Damned (cultists, Traitor Guard, Radical Inquisition (?), etc)
We need wargear and points back. I don't want to pay for 10, when I want to bring a 6 marines instead of 5. Braindead
there should be the option for both. freely choose between faster lists like now or more specific into depth list like before were u can really adjust for your needs.
*Some* wargear needs to come back. There’s no point in pointing the few options an intercessor squad has, but something like Plague Marines really needs to have some different points for options.
The squad sizes I don’t personally care as much about but that’s because my armies (Tau and Marines) aren’t really hit that hard by it in my experience.
I don’t think they r going to do that. I think they want the army to be what is in the box and then point them by the box and not get in the minutiae.
Why do you want to bring 6 marines tho? Feels like you’re cheesing a rules interaction by attempting that
Slaanesh armies? Chaos players are extremely well known for wanting to play their squads in combinations of each God's sacred number
Also, flexibility... personally, I just like the look and feel of 6 vs. 5 for smaller squads or things like scouts, etc...
Slaanesh reigns in 2025
40K needs a massive rules overhaul. I go you go needs to got to alternate activation or at the minimum reactions. Game is way to Killy
It should also be D10 to give better variation between factions and between units within each faction.
@@spazhazzardyeah 100% this the scale everything works on is too low and spikes extremely hard as a result.
The difference between a 1W model and 2W model is absolutely huge and there’s no middle ground
I hated 7th edition lol. Played since late 2nd and it was my least favorite edition. I am quite enjoying 10th!
They should stop printing codex and stop losing Time on this and focus on something digital
I'm not buying codices and data cards anymore, and I'm telling others not to buy them.