uploading a youtube video is pretty much my favorite thing in the world so just wanted to say thanks for watching. 😄 next upload next monday! only more cs2 vids when i get home
Watching Device at blast and it is still crazy for me to see how calmly he holds an Angle and switching to the next Angle in the perfect time to punish the enemy.
that is exactly the reason why the guy is not in the goat debate for most people. the problem is not that he cant hit a flick, but rather the fact that he never puts himself into a situation to have to rely on that. he just plays the game way too efficiently.
@@launders I feel like it's the fact that when you watch Device play you are thinking: "Yeah that looks like something I could do." (the reality is that we couldn't, but it still looks like it). When you watch Simple or ZywOo, you go "Never in a million years could I do that".
@@zezanje1 that's also why I don't consider s1mple the goat, coz sometimes I feel like he's positioning himself so he can get a good highlight play, like he's chasing highlights.. he is definitely a good awper ofc, but I feel like he can be a lot better if he play more efficiently
Hey Lau, statistics guy here, if you wanna account for fluctuations, it's better to take the median than the average. Or, if you want to talk about average, always include the standard deviation. It's a measure of how spread out the data is. Anyway, really appreciate the videos!
Good point - I’m a data scientist and I’m an advocate of the median, but if the distribution is normal/ a bell curve, the mean is technically a better average than the median. It all depends on distribution, which is why your initial comment about standard deviation is important.
@@based_chap I think median would be better for this type of data set given it implicitly "ignores" outliers. Expecting a 95% confidence interval rejection may be too much, hence mean would be overly weighted by outliers or skew
this video is 10/10, been feeling very depressed and just watching this has made me feel motivated in general just getting your vibe lau. love u dude. only 3 minutes in
I think it’s telling how influential Device has been to the game when almost every pro Awper says they look at Device demos to get better, not only that, Device proved for many years that he was an ice cold killer getting the numbers every major he went to, S1mple had his chances in quite a few major finals, but most times he couldn’t deliver when it really really mattered.
F0rest is one of the longevity goats too, maybe even THE longevity goat. Dude played in an S tier tournament a couple months ago, didn't exactly play well but the fact he can even play in that bracket still at all is crazy considering hes been playing for over 20 years now, and been a pro for over 18. Taz hasnt played in anything remotely close to that tier for like 5 years+
@@Robstrap To me this is why f0rest is still the goat. He might have never hit the same ceiling in raw skill in the same way some other contenders have, but the fact that he's been doing this for so long... Incredible. He plays with such style too, just like s1mple and device you can always tell when you're watching f0rest play.
Since you are a melee fan, there's a video on the Golden Guardian Melee channel where they make a GOAT pyramid, kinda like a tier list but that shrinks the number of spots for each tier, up until the top where the GOAT sits. I think it'd be really cool video a CSGO or even all of all of CS GOAT pyramid
I swear you should be a sales man lau. I haven't considered changing headphone brands since literally 2016 and your 60 -> 144 hz discussion really made me consider getting AceZone geat. Ill need to let you know if I pull the trigger and thank you for the amazing casting today!
Its weird, I'm from R6 and both you and OhnePixel have been making getting into CS incredibly easy... I think because of your personalities and humor. Keep it up
@@gh_3_2 have never bought a single case and probably wouldnt.... even if ohne didnt do cases, i would still love him because of his humor and how he can make anything funny. like i watched his iem cologne 23 watchparty and it was lit
I think that it is unfair to proclaim that because dev1ce was the best player on the best team, he automatically 'carried' Astralis of 2018-19. As a die-hard Astralist fan - and Dane - what was so unique about Astralis was the degree to which it was a team effort; you had 5 players, all equally bringing 100% quality to the table, and thus, in a way,, being 500% of what S1mple or NiKo could muster on their rosters. This is something that reflects a core element of Danish culture, as humility is a huge part of 'Danishness', and I feel that Astralis was a perfect encapsulation of this humility (it's called the 'Law of Jante' if you wanna look into it some more), and to me, dev1ce was not in his own league, but rather the best of 5 players, all on equal footing, no-one being exceptional from one another, and such, it was 5 players all in the same league, that just happened to be topped by dev1ce. This is the reason that for me, a Danish Astralis fan, it is hard to call him the GOAT, and I feel that it stems from a somewhat unhealthy obsession with finding an individual star, where in reality, it was a team effort like never seen before, and never replicated after. Appreciate your videos Lau
every player on astralis did their job very well, they never choked, always put up above average performance and thats it, with perfect team play, you dont need anything more than that, no need for flashy plays or insane clutches, even tho from time to time you would see magisk/device step up or xyp9x clutch in the most outrageous position
As a Heroic fan, I think that the Heroic squad has as much star power as the Astralis roster that went on that epic run. Where the two squads differ is, as you mentioned, humility. Astralis was just the perfect team, perfect org, they never put a foot wrong. Heroic often tends to brag and gloat. Even if it’s lols or memes, it’s still a subconscious effect. I truly hope Heroic can rise to match what Astralis accomplished but I don’t see it happening. From the Americas with love ❤
I'm sorry Lau but at 7:28 you bring up Guardian's HLTV and say that "He's simply not good anymore" This is factually wrong when Apex who just won a major is worse than him at every conceivable metric: Rating: 0.9 vs Guardian's 1.11 (Guardian is better) Impact: 0.83 vs Guardian's 1.09 (Guardian is better) ADR: 66.2 vs Guardian's 71.8 (Guardian is better) Deaths per Round: 0.67 vs Guardian's 0.62 (Guardian is better) KAST: 66.8% vs Guardian's 69.7% (Guardian is better) KPR: 0.54 vs Guardian's 0.74% (Guardian is better) By the way Dupreeh's stats are also all better than Apex's by a mile yet they booted Dupreeh and not Apex. I have been playing Counter Strike since 2001, and it's bizarre to me how modern CS commentators and teams make their statements and decisions. I'd really be grateful if you could tell me where I went wrong here, but by all metrics available it seems to me that GuardiaN is an objectively better player than the IGL of the arguably best team in the world right now.
@@launders No, I'm asking a legitimate question to someone who knows more about a subject than I do. Why are you being condescending? HLTV stats I am sure keep in mind role differences, otherwise AWPers would just always have the highest ratings and support players wouldn't ever be able to compete which kind of invalidate the point of an objective rating system since it becomes subjective (like other placid markers of skill: kills/ADR/etc) - the whole idea of the Rating 2.0 is supposed to be an accurate estimation of somebody's objective ability across the board. Edit: You can also go look at Headtrick's stats which are virtually identical to GuardiaN's. I mean unless we're straight up just comparing him to the top 1 or 2 players in the world then... yeah... I guess he's bad... it's literally only age, so saying "He's just bad" nowadays is still objectively wrong.
@@WhitefoxSpace Dude yes awpers pretty much always have higher ratings and no hltv rating doesn't account for them playing different roles or using an awp. Which is why Apex and other IGLs have lower ratings. Sure they often aren't that good at fragging either but they actually provide something to the team outside of kills so that's why they still play on top teams. Guardian might have a higher rating than Apex but; he's not playing near as good teams as Apex does. Apex also igls, Guardian to my knowledge doesn't. Guardian also last played in a barely tier 3 team and was still putting up pretty bad performances. Apex is playing the best teams and players in the world. Every good team needs an IGL. Which is why Apex is still on Vitality and Dupreeh isn't. Dupreeh they had an easy replacement with FlameZ available, for Apex they will need someone who can IGL at a similar level and also frag better. Guardian might be a better fragger than Apex. But is he a better player than Apex? Not even close. And Headtrick is young, has just joined a top team at the start of this year that has been struggling for years with constant roster changes. He's been very good the last few games they've played at blast. Saved them with a 40 bomb against EG and was big in their wins against Vitality and Col. Much better player at the moment than Guardian was the last couple years.
@@Binzob thanks for the info, what I'm taking from this then is that honestly hltv ratings are quoted far too often in pro debates lol. If it has so many conditions and variables attached to how useful it is, it isn't useful
When you said "before you even knew about Device" you made me feel old, cuz i watched him, xyp and dupreeh since the Cph days, and i'm only 21 now, that is crazy. Great video Launders as always.
Another key indicator of his prowess is with how much ease he frags. If you see s1mple, he frags like crazy but there is an element of intensity in his aiming that reflects how much effort he's putting in. Zywoo's aiming is calm, s1mple's aiming is tensed.
@@davidsantoso2291 He is tense... Plus he plays with a relatively high sensitivity thus requiring a tighter mouse grip. Anyone that grips the mouse tightly aims tensely.
He is amazing, a prodigy no doubt, maybe the best of them all. But his average is over 4 years, not 7 like the others. He needs to keep performing at the absolute top level for 3 more years before we can say he really stands out from Niko, s1mple and dev1ce. He might do it but it's not obvious he will
Yeah it's kinda weird how everybody knows device is good but in the grand scheme of longevity not considered the best. Also big up to navi with some fast play loved to see that outta them today.
After talking about players that took a break from CS, I would love to see a video on Autimatic and his performance after leaving to go play Valorant, or Nitro.
Hi lau, old fan here. I much prefer the old style of videos where you would talk over gameplay etc. These crazy edited with dizzy background and music just makes it very challenging to actually focus on your incredible thoughts. Keep the videos coming but consider tuning it down a bit :)
Device is simply above simple. More accolades more longevity carrying the best team to ever do it from the best cs naton. Sure simple had a higher peak but to be a GOAT you need the full package. Simple doesn't have that full package. He's not a 4 time, not even a two time. The true measure of stature in CS are the accolades. They are the testament to your skill as a teammate let alone a player. And that's what CS is really about.
Just wanted to say - my girlfriend was in need of some new headphones for a while. Decided to get her some AceZones (A-Spire) after seeing your videos on them, and they're awesome man. She's loving them, and I'm low-key jealous!
I’ve been rocking hifi headphones since 2010 or so and yeah there’s many moments when I heard clearly what’s going on but gaming headset buddies had no clue
It's also harder to get high stats with a good team, if everyone is fragging on your team that's less people that you can kill, both s1mple and zywoo had to hard carry terrible teams at some point and don't get me wrong they deserve their spots but who can say Device wouldn't have had N°1 stats with a worse team than 2018 astralis?
s1mple with his most stacked rosters of all time still put up #1 stats, I believe there is merit to your statement... but think about it. Dev1ce has been on shit teams since his return and his stats are good but far from great. Meanwhile you have s1mple and zywoo from 2020-2023 playing with some of the best rosters theyve even been a part of, still maintaining a 1.3 rating. They're just in a different league, dude. dev1ce will never be in a top team again IMO.
@@dasauto1555 s1mple in 2023 has 1.18 rating. Anyway the question remain as to 2018 would peak device be able to be above s1mple just for a year? Btw Dev1ce in 2023 has 1.22 so he's beating s1mple in rating so far this year.
@@MagnusTheCrimsonKing Dev0rce has been playing t2-t3 for most of the year 😂😂😂😂😂 no way you're comparing a team that only made deep runs in t1 events vs a team that only made deep runs in t2 events. Also with this in mind he's up against the worst s1mple we've seen in years by 0.04 rating playing against weaker competition. There's no case for him to be comparable.
I guess this does not include 1.6 era or anything before that. Still remember one day playing on Cobble and trying to double jump up, one guy says ' dude jumping slows you down after 1.4( or 1.5) update '. Them good old college days. I then took a very long break from gaming to raise myself, finally returned to the game 2 years ago. Everything changed, spraying is easier, skins are expensive. -One day on a MM match, a teammate asks me why my voice so mature, how old are you bro? -'23' I lied, cant afford to tell real age so everyone freaks out, and 23 sounds reasonable. -What the fuck, he says, 'you are fucking old'.
this is what i have & i'd like to just upgrade my monitor since im using 60hz but everything else is as follows keyboard - ducky mecha mini mouse - glourious model o wireless headphones - astro a40's mousepad - xxl cpe mousepad soft/smooth, its big enough for my desk plus it lights up (probably trash but idk i like it) monitor - hp24f 60 hz so im thinking about getting a 240hz monitor unless thats overkill
Great video lau (as always) I'd say Devve is my goat, s1mple will forever be remembered as the best player. I personally differ best & greatest by achievements. Devve is the most decorated top player in history, great players wins trophies. S1mple on a individual level is beyond anyone I have ever seen tho. So s1mple = best & Devve = greatest (imo)
I am supposed to buy new headphones very near future after i submit my PhD thesis I have Logitech set of mice & keyboard. I always value a good comfortable headphones as my eye reflexes are not that fast, i rely more on sound
i think people really overshadow astralis' 2019 performance by the grand slam run of liquid, Astralis beat liquid that year is i guess every matchup, 2 majors that year anda few other tournaments here and there, 2020 aswell, they ended #1 beating liquid at the iem global challenge, they did win the road rio tournament too if i am not wrong, esl pro league w es3tag (one map down to navi due to their lower bracket run). devve was still the most consistent player in both 19-20, baffles my mind how he never got hltv #1 between 2018 and 2020
Ngl I have 5K hours in csgo since 2014 and I'm yet to have a 144hz monitor. All I ever cared about the most improving in my setup was getting good enough fps and ping
Ropz made it to fpl with 60hz monitor, so its certainly possible to play extremely good with just that. And I'm pretty sure your frametime is exceptionally good so you still have a ton of advantages.
I have jumped through the high end gaming headphones for a while. I am currently using the Hyper X Cloud Apha S which I have really enjoyed. Prior to that I used Seinheiser Zeros and have tried Steelseries and Astros. I am wondering if the noise cancelling function on the Acezones is worth the price.
For me headphones are most important always. I can think of many games that I have won over the years thanks to my headphones. My favourite maps are the more open ones de_lake and cs_insertion2. On these maps you can win most games just by being quiet and listening.
Great video!! Dev1ce, imo, is the goat over simple. Beside the majors he won, I think his style was always better for team objective vs personal stats. I think that's part of why he was never #1 on hltv.
Device vs S1mple debate is somewhat like debating who is better Bill Russel or Wilt. Wilt being more individually gifted vs Device with better team working collectively to win. It's not 100% accurate but I feel like this comparison makes sense 😅
I don't know if there is another list of top players that are more credible but I remember dev1ce being number 1 in the world for a short period of time
Device vs S1mple is like Bill Russell vs Wilt Chamberlain. Bill Russell doesn't have the stats but he has 11 rings - one as a player/coach. Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 pts in a game where whole teams don't always score 100 points, but he only has one championship.
Im more likely to change mice , ive gone down the mousepad rabbithole but i figured out the style of pad i prefer , Im also looking to make the change to 360hz monitor wise ( currently using 240) Keyboard is the one thing i care the least about the switches have to be linear and not super easy to activate & when it comes down to headphones i really feelt what you said with „ you didnt hear that guy?“ used to blame that on myself for having bad hearing but i might just use the wrong headphones :D
Atm i would upgrade up head set to iems cuz the surroud auido is my import part and ik headeets are better but iems stil deliver enought and i would also upgrade up mouse pad
well before upgrading headphones i´d think about turning my game volume up. i think most headphones, even in-ears should be fine for CS:GO as long as you turn the game loud enough to hear what u need to hear. Sure better headphones = better sound quality, but you really don´t need headphones that are more expensive than your monitor, even if u play on 60hz, lol
I think its undeniable s1mple has always been better but its sad dev1ce is usually completely left out of the goat argument. I think he should be in the same tier as NiKo and Zywoo but he's always treated a step below. Accomplishments matter.
Great video! Would you consider Device "stuck" hard carrying on a team that, while they can win on a good day, aren't ever in the conversation for top contenders? It seems like Astralis made a lateral move in the player shuffle.
Hey Lau, I use a Beyerdynamic dt 770 pro with an external sound card with optimized eq and flattened audio peeks. Do you think there is anything significant to gain without taking ANC into account with those AZ headsets?
i have dt 990s, i use for music. i don’t know how effective your optimizations were but my aspires hear footsteps from farther away. they’re light, super comfortable i prefer the az pads to the velour pads on beyers over many hours personally. both are comfy though
Like your vibe in the video. Music is slick, you got a good voice, only thing needed is a more slow, concise and deliberate delivery and you’d be a seductive king, if you also dress a bit more formal 😎 I haven’t really seen CS since 21. It’s always hard to quantify, and there’s an argument by putting device in the discussion to being GOAT… but like in football, if you discuss who’s the goat it’s always the forward players that gets the shine and no wonder. It’s about scoring goals, and everyone who wants to play football wants to be a striker, so strikers usually have to go through hoops… ofc. you bring a lot of nuance, when it’s a team game and you need specialists to each position that also reaches to sub categories like: box-to-box midfielder, holding midfielder, advanced midfielder and sometimes new categories pops up like a mezzala. Games are won and lost on the midfield. You need the best keeper if you want to dominate. No one on the pitch can play goalkeeper, likewise no goalkeeper can play football at a professional level on the pitch. Why is Gordon Banks, Schmeichel, Kahn, Neuer not in he discussion for the GOAT? Why not Zidane? He’s not a primary goal score, but what he did, no one else could. So in CS when we talk about GOAT, do we see it holistically and how much of an impact you provide in your role? Is it versatility? Is it skills vs achievements? Is it everything combined and we try to quantify how much total juice in each player’s “cup” of measurement. Or is it between those in carry position like a Device, Niko, Simple, ZywOo, Guardian, KennyS, Olof, etc. - And what about Coldzera?
peak, difference in skill compared to others, eye test, longevity, individual accomplishments, team accomplishments the only reason support players aren’t in the conversation is because stats were made to define star players and can’t quantify support player skills like communication, nade usage, dropping guns, seeing the map. most of the time elite players are equally good at all those things too anyway
@@launders And that’s here where it gets murky. Because in a case like Device’s incredible consistency, he had Xyp.. Xyp don’t have the prowess to be in a star position, but no star can do what he does/did as a support. He has specialized in that role to the extent that he’s impact is invaluable. His ability to perform under pressure is/were on the top. Likewise, you can band a bunch of stars together, but in almost all cases, it will always fall apart except freak examples. Everyone can use a nade, everyone can drop a gun, but many stars won’t calculate a whole game, and what has lead up to that game, and process what happened prior, what is the possible future outcomes in this game based on that, and how do we optimize our chances of success based on execution. It’s incredible complex, that suddenly go ways beyond fragging, and ofc. you know all of this, and probably thought it many times and are probably at a different stage than I am. Yet, I don’t know if you last statement is true: “most of the time elite players good on all those things”. I would wager some are way better at communicating under pressure than others. Others can take the lead and make sure things goes according to plan, while others say as less as necessary. If all pros were equal in those categories, why can we then define them by roles? Why don’t you just have a star player being an entry fragger, if you want a bigger volume? Apex in his peak entry fragging days did like Xyp, something else than no one else could do to that degree. So my point is, perhaps there’s more measurements? It is established that something we won’t be able to consider? The first categories you mention is ofc. indisputable, and you will probably be accurate in finding the GOAT by those measurements. Can we by clearly identifying what or how we measure an IGL, support, entry (which is also a support role, really) is their unique traits, that they have that should/shouldn’t be measured in terms of goat? Or should they be judge separately in their own category? Because then we’ve established as to why Glave is not a GOAT compared to let’s say Niko. Glaive will never have the same raw cs prowess as a Niko, but he has achieved significantly more, and by all things considered, he may actually be a more complete player than Niko, and Niko has put himself as an IGL or always contest to be on the top of the hierarchy no matter where he goes, which also heavily impact ingame and ingame decisions and his teammates performance. It’s something that is almost impossible to really quantify, yet it is visible no matter which team he played for (again I stopped watching since 21)… but except from raw star fragging measurements, wouldn’t Glaive win in all other categories? Hence he’s more successful in the game? Using football as an analogy again, a discussion for who’s the best player now often includes, Haaland and Mbappe. The case for Mbappe is that he’s a more complete forward… but he’s not as a good striker as Haaland.. well Haaland got to the toughest league in the world and broke the goalscoring record with a huge legacy in his rookie season… but he may be part of the best team football has ever seen with the current best manager, meanwhile Mbappe has only his prowess to show for, but he’s playing in a nonsensical league if you judge by the upper echelons of football. Then many would actually wager on Kevin De Bryne and perhaps he were the best player in the world at a time… but he’s a creative player, he’s not a goal scorer, yet what he does is so invaluable and with such an incredible skill and skillset it makes him an atypical choice for the best player. Is there or can an example like that happen in CS? Where you’re so good at what you do, and you’re so invaluable, that it tilts over the normal preconceptions on how you value who’s the GOAT? And in coming to that conclusion can we then measure and compare someone like Device to a Simple more accurately? And can we stack someone like Apex, Xyp or Krimz in that hierarchy if that is even possible. Also I would like to add COMPETITION to that list. Some eras of CS has way harder competition than others, that you won’t necessarily remember just by looking at a glance on liqupedia. And those things are always fun to discuss in every sport… like it’s the celebration of who’s the most skilled above all skilled. That’s a man thing! And then you get angry, and then I get grumpy, and I hit you, you head Butt me, I kick you in the nuts, you grab my arm, I grab yours - and then we realize that, we could really use a beer right now, and if you’ve read this so far, I can heavily recommend some exclusive Belgian beer from Grimbergen called: “Magnum Opus, Astrum and Ignis”. You can only acquire them from the main brewery in Belgium though, and you better drink it from a proper Grimbergen Cup!
@@dasauto1555 hehe, well, I don’t really care whose responding or not. If I write a blog like that, I don’t expect anyone to read it, it’s for my own selfish reasons to be frank, and usually helps my brain to process things. If someone wants to join, debate or share their thoughts and opinions the more the merrier… but it’s not an expectation, and no one has to participate or respond if they don’t want to.
Okay this has gone too far. Hating on Daniels is a scary rabbit hole many people have fallen for, even great leaders like Nebuchadnezzar. In the end, it doesn't end well to mock a Daniel like that, we are like a cult, we're everywhere, and we're gonna find you....
uploading a youtube video is pretty much my favorite thing in the world so just wanted to say thanks for watching. 😄
next upload next monday! only more cs2 vids when i get home
ps sorry about the audio mix being too loud on this one- von had some mixing gear settings where it didn’t sound as loud. next time it won’t be x
@@launders yo im going need the bkg music, its soo good but the link in the desc doesnt work.
Always a blessed day when you upload. 🙏
Watching Device at blast and it is still crazy for me to see how calmly he holds an Angle and switching to the next Angle in the perfect time to punish the enemy.
it’s that calmness that’s also why he goes underrated somehow. every kill is stress free- insane positional play
that is exactly the reason why the guy is not in the goat debate for most people. the problem is not that he cant hit a flick, but rather the fact that he never puts himself into a situation to have to rely on that. he just plays the game way too efficiently.
@@launders I feel like it's the fact that when you watch Device play you are thinking: "Yeah that looks like something I could do." (the reality is that we couldn't, but it still looks like it). When you watch Simple or ZywOo, you go "Never in a million years could I do that".
@@zezanje1 that's also why I don't consider s1mple the goat, coz sometimes I feel like he's positioning himself so he can get a good highlight play, like he's chasing highlights.. he is definitely a good awper ofc, but I feel like he can be a lot better if he play more efficiently
Device is Sergio Busquets of CS
Hey Lau, statistics guy here, if you wanna account for fluctuations, it's better to take the median than the average. Or, if you want to talk about average, always include the standard deviation. It's a measure of how spread out the data is. Anyway, really appreciate the videos!
true thanks, that makes sense. hadn’t thought about that
Median is an outrageously underated average
Good point - I’m a data scientist and I’m an advocate of the median, but if the distribution is normal/ a bell curve, the mean is technically a better average than the median. It all depends on distribution, which is why your initial comment about standard deviation is important.
@@based_chap I think median would be better for this type of data set given it implicitly "ignores" outliers.
Expecting a 95% confidence interval rejection may be too much, hence mean would be overly weighted by outliers or skew
@oliverpower138 what does median mean isnt that the same as average?
this video is 10/10, been feeling very depressed and just watching this has made me feel motivated in general just getting your vibe lau. love u dude. only 3 minutes in
hope you feel better king
I always get so shocked when so many of these pros / ex pros i've watched since I was in my early-mid teens arent even 30 yet
Spare a though for us old bastards that have been playing CS on and off since 1999...
@@krazed0451 old head fartin dust by nowsee you in cs2
I think it’s telling how influential Device has been to the game when almost every pro Awper says they look at Device demos to get better, not only that, Device proved for many years that he was an ice cold killer getting the numbers every major he went to, S1mple had his chances in quite a few major finals, but most times he couldn’t deliver when it really really mattered.
Taz is the longevity goat. Literally played for over 20 years :D
true he went hard
F0rest is one of the longevity goats too, maybe even THE longevity goat. Dude played in an S tier tournament a couple months ago, didn't exactly play well but the fact he can even play in that bracket still at all is crazy considering hes been playing for over 20 years now, and been a pro for over 18. Taz hasnt played in anything remotely close to that tier for like 5 years+
@@Robstrapdefinitely THE longevity goat
When I go to school I see him on the bus sometimes :)
@@Robstrap To me this is why f0rest is still the goat. He might have never hit the same ceiling in raw skill in the same way some other contenders have, but the fact that he's been doing this for so long... Incredible. He plays with such style too, just like s1mple and device you can always tell when you're watching f0rest play.
Since you are a melee fan, there's a video on the Golden Guardian Melee channel where they make a GOAT pyramid, kinda like a tier list but that shrinks the number of spots for each tier, up until the top where the GOAT sits. I think it'd be really cool video a CSGO or even all of all of CS GOAT pyramid
watching now!
I swear you should be a sales man lau. I haven't considered changing headphone brands since literally 2016 and your 60 -> 144 hz discussion really made me consider getting AceZone geat. Ill need to let you know if I pull the trigger and thank you for the amazing casting today!
thank you and thanks for the compliment :D
@@launders ofc you are my favorite youtuber! Hope to someday meet you at an event 😎
get some sennheiser 560S's instead
Its weird, I'm from R6 and both you and OhnePixel have been making getting into CS incredibly easy... I think because of your personalities and humor. Keep it up
you got into the hobby earlier than most, just remember cases are never worth do trade ups my son
@@gh_3_2 have never bought a single case and probably wouldnt.... even if ohne didnt do cases, i would still love him because of his humor and how he can make anything funny. like i watched his iem cologne 23 watchparty and it was lit
man pressed publish the moment he was done casting god damn
props to the editor, such a clean edit! The aged up player faces are so cursed its great
It look like a snapchat filter 😂
I think that it is unfair to proclaim that because dev1ce was the best player on the best team, he automatically 'carried' Astralis of 2018-19. As a die-hard Astralist fan - and Dane - what was so unique about Astralis was the degree to which it was a team effort; you had 5 players, all equally bringing 100% quality to the table, and thus, in a way,, being 500% of what S1mple or NiKo could muster on their rosters. This is something that reflects a core element of Danish culture, as humility is a huge part of 'Danishness', and I feel that Astralis was a perfect encapsulation of this humility (it's called the 'Law of Jante' if you wanna look into it some more), and to me, dev1ce was not in his own league, but rather the best of 5 players, all on equal footing, no-one being exceptional from one another, and such, it was 5 players all in the same league, that just happened to be topped by dev1ce.
This is the reason that for me, a Danish Astralis fan, it is hard to call him the GOAT, and I feel that it stems from a somewhat unhealthy obsession with finding an individual star, where in reality, it was a team effort like never seen before, and never replicated after.
Appreciate your videos Lau
ur 100% right the team's success was totally based on each other; the other 4 players are also goats, just dev1ce is the goat of goats haha;
U nailed it 👏
every player on astralis did their job very well, they never choked, always put up above average performance and thats it, with perfect team play, you dont need anything more than that, no need for flashy plays or insane clutches, even tho from time to time you would see magisk/device step up or xyp9x clutch in the most outrageous position
Haha no way du bringer janteloven ind i det her xd
As a Heroic fan, I think that the Heroic squad has as much star power as the Astralis roster that went on that epic run. Where the two squads differ is, as you mentioned, humility. Astralis was just the perfect team, perfect org, they never put a foot wrong. Heroic often tends to brag and gloat. Even if it’s lols or memes, it’s still a subconscious effect. I truly hope Heroic can rise to match what Astralis accomplished but I don’t see it happening. From the Americas with love ❤
W video lau, missing the lau demo reviews hopefully we get to see them soon
I'm sorry Lau but at 7:28 you bring up Guardian's HLTV and say that "He's simply not good anymore"
This is factually wrong when Apex who just won a major is worse than him at every conceivable metric:
Rating: 0.9 vs Guardian's 1.11 (Guardian is better)
Impact: 0.83 vs Guardian's 1.09 (Guardian is better)
ADR: 66.2 vs Guardian's 71.8 (Guardian is better)
Deaths per Round: 0.67 vs Guardian's 0.62 (Guardian is better)
KAST: 66.8% vs Guardian's 69.7% (Guardian is better)
KPR: 0.54 vs Guardian's 0.74% (Guardian is better)
By the way Dupreeh's stats are also all better than Apex's by a mile yet they booted Dupreeh and not Apex.
I have been playing Counter Strike since 2001, and it's bizarre to me how modern CS commentators and teams make their statements and decisions. I'd really be grateful if you could tell me where I went wrong here, but by all metrics available it seems to me that GuardiaN is an objectively better player than the IGL of the arguably best team in the world right now.
you’re comparing him to the worst player on another team who’s not even an awper. i’m comparing him to elite awpers
are you trolling?
@@launders No, I'm asking a legitimate question to someone who knows more about a subject than I do. Why are you being condescending?
HLTV stats I am sure keep in mind role differences, otherwise AWPers would just always have the highest ratings and support players wouldn't ever be able to compete which kind of invalidate the point of an objective rating system since it becomes subjective (like other placid markers of skill: kills/ADR/etc) - the whole idea of the Rating 2.0 is supposed to be an accurate estimation of somebody's objective ability across the board.
Edit: You can also go look at Headtrick's stats which are virtually identical to GuardiaN's. I mean unless we're straight up just comparing him to the top 1 or 2 players in the world then... yeah... I guess he's bad... it's literally only age, so saying "He's just bad" nowadays is still objectively wrong.
@@WhitefoxSpace Dude yes awpers pretty much always have higher ratings and no hltv rating doesn't account for them playing different roles or using an awp. Which is why Apex and other IGLs have lower ratings. Sure they often aren't that good at fragging either but they actually provide something to the team outside of kills so that's why they still play on top teams.
Guardian might have a higher rating than Apex but; he's not playing near as good teams as Apex does. Apex also igls, Guardian to my knowledge doesn't. Guardian also last played in a barely tier 3 team and was still putting up pretty bad performances. Apex is playing the best teams and players in the world.
Every good team needs an IGL. Which is why Apex is still on Vitality and Dupreeh isn't. Dupreeh they had an easy replacement with FlameZ available, for Apex they will need someone who can IGL at a similar level and also frag better.
Guardian might be a better fragger than Apex. But is he a better player than Apex? Not even close.
And Headtrick is young, has just joined a top team at the start of this year that has been struggling for years with constant roster changes. He's been very good the last few games they've played at blast. Saved them with a 40 bomb against EG and was big in their wins against Vitality and Col. Much better player at the moment than Guardian was the last couple years.
@@Binzob thanks for the info, what I'm taking from this then is that honestly hltv ratings are quoted far too often in pro debates lol. If it has so many conditions and variables attached to how useful it is, it isn't useful
When you said "before you even knew about Device" you made me feel old, cuz i watched him, xyp and dupreeh since the Cph days, and i'm only 21 now, that is crazy.
Great video Launders as always.
deve was always my favorite pro idk just how calm he plays and also his consistency
Seeing Dev play so good at the moment after such a long break makes me think he is the goat
I had no idea how good zywoo actually is until you showed his stats compared to all the other players in the top 5 🤯
Another key indicator of his prowess is with how much ease he frags.
If you see s1mple, he frags like crazy but there is an element of intensity in his aiming that reflects how much effort he's putting in.
Zywoo's aiming is calm, s1mple's aiming is tensed.
@@spawnnpwn4166 s1mple is not tense, but he's way more flicky with his shots compared to zywoo. Different player, different sens, different playstyle
@@davidsantoso2291 He is tense... Plus he plays with a relatively high sensitivity thus requiring a tighter mouse grip.
Anyone that grips the mouse tightly aims tensely.
He is amazing, a prodigy no doubt, maybe the best of them all. But his average is over 4 years, not 7 like the others. He needs to keep performing at the absolute top level for 3 more years before we can say he really stands out from Niko, s1mple and dev1ce. He might do it but it's not obvious he will
Dude I don’t wanna be like Daniel I’m buying acezone headphones right this very second
nothing worse than daniels!!!
He's so efficient at the game that he doesn't NEED to be flashy; his impact is silent but deadly.
Great analysis, as always. I love playing your videos in the background.
I'd like to see a comparison of the two legends kennys and guardian
over 2 minutes of this 10 minute video was a straight ad, hope you get paid real well man.
6:53 2018-2019 Astralis were so good finishing as the #1 team of 2020 was a bad period 💀
love the editing and the music choice but the music levels could be a bit lower its almost overwhelming with lau's voice
Yeah it's kinda weird how everybody knows device is good but in the grand scheme of longevity not considered the best. Also big up to navi with some fast play loved to see that outta them today.
OMG, what a video dude!!! Thank you so much, on behalf of the whole commmunity!!!
After talking about players that took a break from CS, I would love to see a video on Autimatic and his performance after leaving to go play Valorant, or Nitro.
Hi lau, old fan here. I much prefer the old style of videos where you would talk over gameplay etc. These crazy edited with dizzy background and music just makes it very challenging to actually focus on your incredible thoughts. Keep the videos coming but consider tuning it down a bit :)
Device is simply above simple. More accolades more longevity carrying the best team to ever do it from the best cs naton. Sure simple had a higher peak but to be a GOAT you need the full package. Simple doesn't have that full package. He's not a 4 time, not even a two time. The true measure of stature in CS are the accolades. They are the testament to your skill as a teammate let alone a player. And that's what CS is really about.
Just wanted to say - my girlfriend was in need of some new headphones for a while. Decided to get her some AceZones (A-Spire) after seeing your videos on them, and they're awesome man. She's loving them, and I'm low-key jealous!
love to hear that! i vouch for them because they’re honestly the best.
1:06 imagine he said nuke
france
Lewl
The editing is on point.
Two ads before video even with ublock origin dev build, then a built in ad in the intro and finally an ad in the middle of the video. Damn.
Congrats you found the song name comment . Its " Make it with you" by Don Julian
As a danish person I feel very represented
device is my goat! Thanks launders!!
ever since i got into csgo in early 2014, device been my goat in my heart
certified vonvorter classic
As a hockey player hearing picks in t he back of the net on a Csgo gave me ptsd
The link for the song doesn't work:( This background song is heat
Lau man you the goat of cs youtube
0:19 ad skip
always timestamps!*
I love you, Launders. But god damn i love Device man.
just feeling blessed that it’s close
the second Lau started trying to mention other sports and you realise gaming is just it's entirely own world cut off from the rest x)
#2:22 is that a psp1g reference?
With those headphones u advertising, can u hear the door on cache being opened when u are t rushing main?
I’ve been rocking hifi headphones since 2010 or so and yeah there’s many moments when I heard clearly what’s going on but gaming headset buddies had no clue
They’re more expensive initially for sure but longevity is so much better, you can find replacement parts, they’re simpler tech and built better.
It's also harder to get high stats with a good team, if everyone is fragging on your team that's less people that you can kill, both s1mple and zywoo had to hard carry terrible teams at some point and don't get me wrong they deserve their spots but who can say Device wouldn't have had N°1 stats with a worse team than 2018 astralis?
s1mple with his most stacked rosters of all time still put up #1 stats, I believe there is merit to your statement... but think about it. Dev1ce has been on shit teams since his return and his stats are good but far from great. Meanwhile you have s1mple and zywoo from 2020-2023 playing with some of the best rosters theyve even been a part of, still maintaining a 1.3 rating. They're just in a different league, dude. dev1ce will never be in a top team again IMO.
@@dasauto1555 s1mple in 2023 has 1.18 rating. Anyway the question remain as to 2018 would peak device be able to be above s1mple just for a year?
Btw Dev1ce in 2023 has 1.22 so he's beating s1mple in rating so far this year.
@@MagnusTheCrimsonKing Dev0rce has been playing t2-t3 for most of the year 😂😂😂😂😂 no way you're comparing a team that only made deep runs in t1 events vs a team that only made deep runs in t2 events. Also with this in mind he's up against the worst s1mple we've seen in years by 0.04 rating playing against weaker competition. There's no case for him to be comparable.
Great video Lau!
Thank you!!
I felt personally attacked by that silver pop-up.
But real question to be asked, Is Launders the goat of CS content?
I guess this does not include 1.6 era or anything before that.
Still remember one day playing on Cobble and trying to double jump up, one guy says ' dude jumping slows you down after 1.4( or 1.5) update '.
Them good old college days.
I then took a very long break from gaming to raise myself, finally returned to the game 2 years ago. Everything changed, spraying is easier, skins are expensive.
-One day on a MM match, a teammate asks me why my voice so mature, how old are you bro?
-'23' I lied, cant afford to tell real age so everyone freaks out, and 23 sounds reasonable.
-What the fuck, he says, 'you are fucking old'.
this is what i have & i'd like to just upgrade my monitor since im using 60hz but everything else is as follows
keyboard - ducky mecha mini
mouse - glourious model o wireless
headphones - astro a40's
mousepad - xxl cpe mousepad soft/smooth, its big enough for my desk plus it lights up (probably trash but idk i like it)
monitor - hp24f 60 hz
so im thinking about getting a 240hz monitor unless thats overkill
Nice intro
that ad was nice
thanks just having fun!’
I want to point out at hobbit's comeback. Became the 6th best player (2021 he was 27 yo) in the world after a huge break.
Launders, great vid and all, but please tell me - where can I buy this shirt?
Device is my favorite awper it’s crazy to see him still carry Astralis
That's why you said to Scrawny that Dev1ce could play forever and still be good. Goat shit 🐐.
Great vid Lau
Great video but, song name??
Great video lau (as always) I'd say Devve is my goat, s1mple will forever be remembered as the best player. I personally differ best & greatest by achievements. Devve is the most decorated top player in history, great players wins trophies. S1mple on a individual level is beyond anyone I have ever seen tho. So s1mple = best & Devve = greatest (imo)
Dev1ce has always been my goat
Is there a place we can see all the equipment you use like monitor keyboard etc.?
I am supposed to buy new headphones very near future after i submit my PhD thesis
I have Logitech set of mice & keyboard.
I always value a good comfortable headphones as my eye reflexes are not that fast, i rely more on sound
i think people really overshadow astralis' 2019 performance by the grand slam run of liquid, Astralis beat liquid that year is i guess every matchup, 2 majors that year anda few other tournaments here and there, 2020 aswell, they ended #1 beating liquid at the iem global challenge, they did win the road rio tournament too if i am not wrong, esl pro league w es3tag (one map down to navi due to their lower bracket run). devve was still the most consistent player in both 19-20, baffles my mind how he never got hltv #1 between 2018 and 2020
Ngl I have 5K hours in csgo since 2014 and I'm yet to have a 144hz monitor. All I ever cared about the most improving in my setup was getting good enough fps and ping
those are the two most important priorities for an fps player for sure
Ropz made it to fpl with 60hz monitor, so its certainly possible to play extremely good with just that.
And I'm pretty sure your frametime is exceptionally good so you still have a ton of advantages.
I have jumped through the high end gaming headphones for a while. I am currently using the Hyper X Cloud Apha S which I have really enjoyed. Prior to that I used Seinheiser Zeros and have tried Steelseries and Astros. I am wondering if the noise cancelling function on the Acezones is worth the price.
I remember when GuardiaN was the most consistent and Longevity GOAT.
For me headphones are most important always. I can think of many games that I have won over the years thanks to my headphones.
My favourite maps are the more open ones de_lake and cs_insertion2. On these maps you can win most games just by being quiet and listening.
bro where'd u get that shirt from in the intro 👀👀👀👀
found some our legacy on sale here in cph 🤓
Great video!! Dev1ce, imo, is the goat over simple. Beside the majors he won, I think his style was always better for team objective vs personal stats. I think that's part of why he was never #1 on hltv.
Background track is a little like a foreground track if you get what I mean
8:35 Niko has a very good AWP tbh
Device vs S1mple debate is somewhat like debating who is better Bill Russel or Wilt. Wilt being more individually gifted vs Device with better team working collectively to win. It's not 100% accurate but I feel like this comparison makes sense 😅
lau, stop talking about who the goat is please we all know that YOU'RE the one and only goat
:P
I don't know if there is another list of top players that are more credible but I remember dev1ce being number 1 in the world for a short period of time
Device vs S1mple is like Bill Russell vs Wilt Chamberlain. Bill Russell doesn't have the stats but he has 11 rings - one as a player/coach. Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 pts in a game where whole teams don't always score 100 points, but he only has one championship.
idk who the fuck they are but great comparison
Dev1ce has been my fav player since I started watching cs esports since 2016
good choice
Im more likely to change mice , ive gone down the mousepad rabbithole but i figured out the style of pad i prefer , Im also looking to make the change to 360hz monitor wise ( currently using 240) Keyboard is the one thing i care the least about the switches have to be linear and not super easy to activate & when it comes down to headphones i really feelt what you said with „ you didnt hear that guy?“ used to blame that on myself for having bad hearing but i might just use the wrong headphones :D
i would turn the game loader if i were you
My steam named used to be de_vice until device came around and even used that screen name for a while. I'll never forgive him for that.
Atm i would upgrade up head set to iems cuz the surroud auido is my import part and ik headeets are better but iems stil deliver enought and i would also upgrade up mouse pad
well before upgrading headphones i´d think about turning my game volume up.
i think most headphones, even in-ears should be fine for CS:GO as long as you turn the game loud enough to hear what u need to hear.
Sure better headphones = better sound quality, but you really don´t need headphones that are more expensive than your monitor, even if u play on 60hz, lol
9:36 sneakily using a Dota Trophy oof
I think its undeniable s1mple has always been better but its sad dev1ce is usually completely left out of the goat argument. I think he should be in the same tier as NiKo and Zywoo but he's always treated a step below. Accomplishments matter.
Great video! Would you consider Device "stuck" hard carrying on a team that, while they can win on a good day, aren't ever in the conversation for top contenders? It seems like Astralis made a lateral move in the player shuffle.
Do u take acid on a regular basis?
also, the song link is broken, which is a shame
Hey Lau, I use a Beyerdynamic dt 770 pro with an external sound card with optimized eq and flattened audio peeks. Do you think there is anything significant to gain without taking ANC into account with those AZ headsets?
i have dt 990s, i use for music. i don’t know how effective your optimizations were but my aspires hear footsteps from farther away. they’re light, super comfortable i prefer the az pads to the velour pads on beyers over many hours personally.
both are comfy though
I did order the A-Spire ones. I will let you know how they compare.
Those aged players are sick. Imagine us even in our old age saying back in our day we aimed with mice.
lmfao
I like the music selection
@launders just curious. How does my favorite caster deal with sweaty palms while playing?
i luckily don’t get sweaty palms. i’ve heard of players getting botox to deal with this!
i enjoyed this 10 minute thank you launders
thanks for sayinnn 😃
Like your vibe in the video. Music is slick, you got a good voice, only thing needed is a more slow, concise and deliberate delivery and you’d be a seductive king, if you also dress a bit more formal 😎
I haven’t really seen CS since 21. It’s always hard to quantify, and there’s an argument by putting device in the discussion to being GOAT… but like in football, if you discuss who’s the goat it’s always the forward players that gets the shine and no wonder. It’s about scoring goals, and everyone who wants to play football wants to be a striker, so strikers usually have to go through hoops… ofc. you bring a lot of nuance, when it’s a team game and you need specialists to each position that also reaches to sub categories like: box-to-box midfielder, holding midfielder, advanced midfielder and sometimes new categories pops up like a mezzala. Games are won and lost on the midfield. You need the best keeper if you want to dominate. No one on the pitch can play goalkeeper, likewise no goalkeeper can play football at a professional level on the pitch. Why is Gordon Banks, Schmeichel, Kahn, Neuer not in he discussion for the GOAT? Why not Zidane? He’s not a primary goal score, but what he did, no one else could.
So in CS when we talk about GOAT, do we see it holistically and how much of an impact you provide in your role? Is it versatility? Is it skills vs achievements? Is it everything combined and we try to quantify how much total juice in each player’s “cup” of measurement. Or is it between those in carry position like a Device, Niko, Simple, ZywOo, Guardian, KennyS, Olof, etc. - And what about Coldzera?
peak, difference in skill compared to others, eye test, longevity, individual accomplishments, team accomplishments
the only reason support players aren’t in the conversation is because stats were made to define star players and can’t quantify support player skills like communication, nade usage, dropping guns, seeing the map.
most of the time elite players are equally good at all those things too anyway
@@launders
And that’s here where it gets murky. Because in a case like Device’s incredible consistency, he had Xyp.. Xyp don’t have the prowess to be in a star position, but no star can do what he does/did as a support. He has specialized in that role to the extent that he’s impact is invaluable. His ability to perform under pressure is/were on the top. Likewise, you can band a bunch of stars together, but in almost all cases, it will always fall apart except freak examples.
Everyone can use a nade, everyone can drop a gun, but many stars won’t calculate a whole game, and what has lead up to that game, and process what happened prior, what is the possible future outcomes in this game based on that, and how do we optimize our chances of success based on execution. It’s incredible complex, that suddenly go ways beyond fragging, and ofc. you know all of this, and probably thought it many times and are probably at a different stage than I am. Yet, I don’t know if you last statement is true: “most of the time elite players good on all those things”.
I would wager some are way better at communicating under pressure than others. Others can take the lead and make sure things goes according to plan, while others say as less as necessary. If all pros were equal in those categories, why can we then define them by roles? Why don’t you just have a star player being an entry fragger, if you want a bigger volume? Apex in his peak entry fragging days did like Xyp, something else than no one else could do to that degree. So my point is, perhaps there’s more measurements? It is established that something we won’t be able to consider?
The first categories you mention is ofc. indisputable, and you will probably be accurate in finding the GOAT by those measurements. Can we by clearly identifying what or how we measure an IGL, support, entry (which is also a support role, really) is their unique traits, that they have that should/shouldn’t be measured in terms of goat? Or should they be judge separately in their own category? Because then we’ve established as to why Glave is not a GOAT compared to let’s say Niko. Glaive will never have the same raw cs prowess as a Niko, but he has achieved significantly more, and by all things considered, he may actually be a more complete player than Niko, and Niko has put himself as an IGL or always contest to be on the top of the hierarchy no matter where he goes, which also heavily impact ingame and ingame decisions and his teammates performance.
It’s something that is almost impossible to really quantify, yet it is visible no matter which team he played for (again I stopped watching since 21)… but except from raw star fragging measurements, wouldn’t Glaive win in all other categories? Hence he’s more successful in the game?
Using football as an analogy again, a discussion for who’s the best player now often includes, Haaland and Mbappe. The case for Mbappe is that he’s a more complete forward… but he’s not as a good striker as Haaland.. well Haaland got to the toughest league in the world and broke the goalscoring record with a huge legacy in his rookie season… but he may be part of the best team football has ever seen with the current best manager, meanwhile Mbappe has only his prowess to show for, but he’s playing in a nonsensical league if you judge by the upper echelons of football. Then many would actually wager on Kevin De Bryne and perhaps he were the best player in the world at a time… but he’s a creative player, he’s not a goal scorer, yet what he does is so invaluable and with such an incredible skill and skillset it makes him an atypical choice for the best player.
Is there or can an example like that happen in CS? Where you’re so good at what you do, and you’re so invaluable, that it tilts over the normal preconceptions on how you value who’s the GOAT? And in coming to that conclusion can we then measure and compare someone like Device to a Simple more accurately? And can we stack someone like Apex, Xyp or Krimz in that hierarchy if that is even possible.
Also I would like to add COMPETITION to that list. Some eras of CS has way harder competition than others, that you won’t necessarily remember just by looking at a glance on liqupedia.
And those things are always fun to discuss in every sport… like it’s the celebration of who’s the most skilled above all skilled. That’s a man thing! And then you get angry, and then I get grumpy, and I hit you, you head Butt me, I kick you in the nuts, you grab my arm, I grab yours - and then we realize that, we could really use a beer right now, and if you’ve read this so far, I can heavily recommend some exclusive Belgian beer from Grimbergen called: “Magnum Opus, Astrum and Ignis”. You can only acquire them from the main brewery in Belgium though, and you better drink it from a proper Grimbergen Cup!
@@Christian_Bagger I get Lau responded, but I dont think he expected to be reading the holy bible in response. 🤯
@@dasauto1555 hehe, well, I don’t really care whose responding or not. If I write a blog like that, I don’t expect anyone to read it, it’s for my own selfish reasons to be frank, and usually helps my brain to process things. If someone wants to join, debate or share their thoughts and opinions the more the merrier… but it’s not an expectation, and no one has to participate or respond if they don’t want to.
@@Christian_Bagger fair enough carry on 🤙
Okay this has gone too far. Hating on Daniels is a scary rabbit hole many people have fallen for, even great leaders like Nebuchadnezzar. In the end, it doesn't end well to mock a Daniel like that, we are like a cult, we're everywhere, and we're gonna find you....
WOOW what a great explanation of things Lauuu
thanks mannee. that’s fair!
bro activated the substitles optionals pls
love these videos
Nothing quite like a 2 minuite commerical on a youtube video lmao RIP
Editing +111