Testing a cheap Chinese er32 collet set, can it get any worse?
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- I messed up one of my collets and I can't find a replacement.
So I asked Banggood if I could do a review on one of their nice looking collet sets.
They agreed and send me a case filled with shiny ER32 collets, a hook spanner and a mt3 collet chuck that fits my old lathe.
So, go watch this dreadfully long review video featuring some metal turds and the ultimate quality control failure.
Want to support my video efforts, you could buy some shit through my Ebay and Banggood affiliated links below :)
some products I really like:
CCMT inserts: ebay.to/2MHIqz3
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Rolingmetal photo album: bit.ly/2KQJIdu
I was a collet and Chuck maker for around 15 years. The problem with alot of this crap is all the secondary grinding !!! Actually the best way to make a collet is by NOT grinding . No joke . You want to very accurately turn the o.d , holes above 5/16 you bore them slightly under - 2 passes then hone exactly to size to plus .0005, and slot . No hardening . If you use stressproof or edt150 they work and wear awesome. The o.d is lightly polished after slotting to deburr and inside is honed with fine Emery on an arbor by hand . And er collets are " NOT " a wide range collet !!! If you want extreme accuracy the i.d of collet must be to size plus .0015" max and you seldom get away with using say a .236" tool 1/4" collet it will no longer contact on the true radius and will run out and not be parallel . Also alot of Chuck caps fit WAY to loose and distort the collet as it clamps. Exact size is the way to go , and lastly when tightening a collet if you hear a creak or noise - IT IS overtorqued and the collet distorted . Erickson also makes very good collets . Kenametal check them all .Also to test a check and or collet , use a simple precision v block in excellent condition , no bearings !!! A good collet and Chuck will be very repeatable , but you may find clamping and unclampung then reclamping will net better results especially with Da / double angle collets. Lastly most collets are simply not sized properly and or the secondary grinding opp ruined the accuracy - that's the china and old school way believe me . Better off to just polish and or nickle plate . All good collets are made that way weather you want to believe it or not .
Hi Cornel - In your opinion, what is a good collet set for the home hobbyiest/prototype person? I'd appreciate your opinion.
The B represents the threaded hole for a drawbar. An ‘A’ version will have a tang for a lathe tailstock
I never get tired of these cheap tool reviews. I'm always trying to squeeze every possible dollar out of my tool budget, and it's good to see someone else doing the same thing...except with machinist stuff.
These are definitely not cheap considering what you get :)
Seems the manufacturer used their own tooling to make their products, and so the error increases.
Their quality control system is clearly working well as the door stop.
Far from a usable product, unless you intend making scrap.
I had to stop the video at "My Little Tool Temple Here".
I am SO stealing that. Thank you.
MT-"B" means morse taper with M12 tread in the back. MT-A has the flat back... you could say MT-A is for lathes and MT-B for mills.
B is for a drawer bar (not all are M12 or even metric), A is for a tang. Lathes have draw bars too.
@@philcook9967 you're right. I was only thinking of the tailstock.
Kudos for sticking with it and finishing the video.
Good quality collets are precision machined, then deformed outwards before hardening, clamping to size, & final grinding. So it is not uncommon to find a collet is "oversize" when not clamped. This is done to make inserting & removing stock easier.
Thanks for 'taking one for the team' I will steer clear. Cheers.
I already ordered a 19 collet set and a separate mt3 collet arbor off Aliexpress. After watching your video, the first thing I’m gonna do is a similar test. If the results were bad and cannot be fixed on my lathe, I’ll return them and demand a refund. Thank for enlightening me and the others. There’s good in every bad. With this video, you gained good deed points that will benefit you in the life after.
I believe Banggood is reselling a batch of rejected collets and chucks. So your Aliexpress purchase might be fine.
I hope it is because collets with run out are just paperweights :)
LOL! If you look closely while it's spinning, you can even see how it's wiggling up and down by the end of the video
Just found your channel! Howdy neighbor ! Good to see there is some metalshop activity in the Lowlands!
These cheap ER collets are a menace ! They are truly a waste of money.
This video just confirms what is generally know about these things.... it's good to have it pointed out again though...
Paddy (from Flanders!)
"Buy cheap, buy twice"
The old saying that is nearly always true, as I've learned over the years.
Great video.
These collets are perfect for our throw away economies
I have the cheapest ER40 collet chuck and back plate I could find on ebay. I turned the backing plate in place on the lathe spindle. I am showing less than 5 tenths runout on the collet chuck. I bought the cheapest ER 40 collets I could find. TIR is 5 tenths or less. For less than $75 for an ER40 chuck and threaded back plate and $65 for collet set I would say 5 tenths is good enough for me.
If you spindle runout and you have chuck runout it can either add to total or it can subtract from total runout. Also the spindle runout will get worse as distance gets greater from the bearing.
I also have bought cheap and have had a lot of runout on a live center. But what I have found is most of the cheap stuff is pretty good and will be good enough for most home shops that don't do a lot of work.
You won't get super accuracy using the taper in the spindle if you have spindle taper runout. You would be better off using a back plate that screws onto the spindle then turn it to fit a ER collet chuck made for a back plate. This way your chuck should be concentric to the spindle. Your only error would be the quality of the taper in the collet chuck. You could then touch it up with a tool post grinder to make the chuck as good as your spindle.
Your Monty Python reference was not lost on me ;)
Great movie :)
What was it?
4:48 That's cool! You took out the collet, and there was a second one behind it! Such Value!
The best second hand rejected garbage money can buy :)
Excellent video production and testing. I bought a set recently from eBay and I paid about 51-52 USD. Same box, same bad runout. I had to convert metric to imperial numbers. I decided to bore out collet holder to the best of my ability I set about 8 degree angle and used compound and finished with with sand paper, the end result improved from .005" to .002" still no good in my book worse than my 4" chuck I got from banggood which I am extremely pleased with it gives me as .0005" (half a thousand). I haven't done thorough testing and I also I trued up my spindle face on my Chineese Grizzly mini lathe by turning which I realize later should be ground. Anyway, there is company called Shars and they sell a collet chuck but it runs 68 bucks which is more what I paid for the whole set. In the meantime I decided to order a replacement chuck from Amazon, it's $20 bucks but at least I can return it in case it's bad.
Thank you for this testing. I was thinking all the collet sets were of the same quality & from the same lot/production runs... I now think I'll pay for the name brands.
Honest review! Too many guys get free equipment to review and then give it a great review, saying that they weren’t paid to do the review. But they were! They got free equipment sometimes worth hundreds or even thousands of dollars. Whenever you’re given free equipment to do a “review”, you’re being paid.
Thank, I try to be honest :) But I'm a bit conflicted about doing reviews. On one side I'm certainly not an expert, but I'm also no brown noser and certainly not a stupid fanboy of anything. And I do believe the world needs to scale back it's economic activities if the human race want to survive.
So all I can do is give my honest opinion. But I can be wrong or change my mind over time. Sure you get something for free but it not the same as being paid for your time. A minute of video takes at-least an hour to produce, and that only seems to get longer as you get older :)
@@Rolingmetal sure, but if you’re given a welder that’s worth $1,000 or more, or a metal cutting saw that’s worth $600, or a number of different tools as some guys have been given, they outfit their shop with them, and don’t have to buy them. Or later on, after the agreement they signed is over, they sell them. Income, yup!
I don’t mind it so much, except that many guys don’t say that they’ve been given these tools, which is deceptive. RUclips requires that any You Tuber receiving something for free, or at a special discount not normally given I is required to say so. But most just say that the “just got” the tool. That’s really what I object to. Most people do to understand just how many people are given things to “review”, and even sign a contract about what they’re allowed to say. Everlast welders does that. Very annoying.
I was given a EDM machine, a rather expensive piece of kit I had zero experience with. And I was rather surprised they picked my little channel to do a review. But I only wanted to do it if I had total freedom for what I was going to do in the video. They excepted, and I was surprised it actually showed up :) I still have it, and have no really need for it and should sell it. But selling a gift is not done. I should fire it up again next summer, see if it still work :) Free stuff can be a good source of cheap and rather easy to make videos.
The only way to check the run out is on a v block & put a ball bearing opposite end ,up against a steel block & revolve it,with D T I in the bore ,don't use a plunge D T I, great video as always, Happy new year ,Coventry UK.
Maybe one day I'll get all the fancy tools and do it right. Till then I'll just ballpark it :)
Pretty sure er collet are designed for full insertion. As the hole thing evenly closes thruought the collet. Unlike 5c or r8 collet the pinch at the end only
You'll introduce cosine error to the measurement if you use plunger type indicator in an angle to the piece you're testing. As you do at 7:40. And also when you test the run out of the shaft, you need to be almost exactly perpendicular to the surface you test to get accurate results... unless all you care about are relative measurements. And even then the indicator should be at the same angle every time you make the measurement :)
Thank you. Outstanding review. I guess putting mill bits in a 3 jaw chuck is better.
On your first test I can see the runout without a test indicator. I have full set of ER32 and ER11 bangood collets and I found the same. My 3 jaw scroll chuck is better than my collets
I love your reviews man. Zero bullshit. 👍🏼👍🏼
In the UK I bought my collets from RDG and Chronos, both are nicely made, accurate and not at all expensive, more than from China but a lot less than a brand name. Most Chinese direct tooling is poor, buy from a reputable dealer if you want accuracy. An amusing fault I found recently on an R8 adaptor was the drawbar hole drilled at an angle, how do they even manage to do that?
Thank you. I almost purchased a set of these collets. I do not believe it makes a difference from whom they are purchased because the containers and cases all look the same. You saved me a bunch of grief.
collet supplier: zhengyu03@sdzhengyu.com
Nice, informative video! Thank you and happy new year!👍
Thank you for this review. I have been looking at the MT5 collet holder and set of collets for a little while now but you have made up my mind. Later and all the best.
Remember, this video doesn't say anything about other Banggoods product but I sure tells you a lot about Chinese quality control.
People don't realize the size and volume of China's Manufacturing Industry and their capabilities.I buy normally from Banggood and their products are fairly well made in general (for a price). I can recommend another supplier of Chinese Tooling with warehouses based in Europe, with excellent prices, quality level and a variety of ER Chucks, hardly found anywhere else. Their name is CTC Tools (no free shipping but reasonable rates). Also works in their favor, that they specialize in tooling only, as opposed to Banggood that carries a whole alphabet of different items. An even much bigger number of people don't realize that their big name, high quality items sold for astronomic prices, are also made in freaking China. Hahahaha
In Canada, the bread we eat is made in China, so what else is new?
@@jorgescordamaglia1654 Exactly, and even more important, people don't seem to realise that other than Taiwan most if not all the manual lathes these days come from China. Apparently there are only 2 factories in all of China who manufacture lathes, but they make a ridiculous amount of them spread out over different batches with each batch being for a different reseller. None of the well known resellers (such as HBM and Optimum in Europe or Harbor Freight in North America) make their own lathes and mills, but instead they negotiate deals with either of those 2 Chinese manufacturers (or one in Taiwan), including the basic requirements they need to meet, like size, engine power, tolerances, paint scheme, and unit price. Some resellers demand better quality lathes, and much stricter quality controll, but in return agree to pay on average a higher per unit price, while some other resellers aren't so picky and just want a cheap lathe or mill but the downside is that because of shoddy quality controll there is a fair risk of buying a shitty lathe or mill. Unless you buy a several decades old 2nd hand lathe or mill, you're pretty much guaranteed to be buying something from either China or otherwise Taiwan, and how much you pay for that machine is a good indicator of the quality you can expect. That's not to say you're guaranteed to receive a piece of cast iron crap if you buy one at a bargain price from one of the budget resellers, just that the chance of buying a shitty one is considerably higher due to the lack of QC. But with the same chance you can end up with a very good lathe for a steal of a price, after all if there's little to no QC they'e also occasionally letting very high quality machines through.
I suspect that the taper in the collet chuck is also not axially true (as well as the shown radial run out). You should be testing this with a test indicator - a dial indicator can only measure one point of the taper and is pretty useless. Or you can check by measuring two positions of overhang on the test stock.
The collet set is obviously crap given the shocking finish of the components. It's understandable why the TIR is so bad.
Rob
You're right, I really should get myself a test indicate.
I actually need one if I want to try and regrind the collet chuck.
I have three dial indicators and never use them. A test indicator is much more useful, eliminates cosine error, and if used with a small mount is much less intrusive.
Once you get one you won't use that dial clock again.
Rob .
Collet supplier: zhengyu03@sdzhengyu.com
this test beautifully shows the reason for that old advise.. buy the best u can afford. And i would add that if the best u can afford is bad.. dont buy lol
Very cool! The bottom looks very professional, even after adding the bracing to the feet. Nice and shinny!
Did you think to clean-out the slits? Sometimes manufacturing debris gets in them & messing with the clamping.
Thanks for posting this. I also took a gamble on buying a cheap set of collets from eBay not so long back. My issue was that everyone claims about the same figures for runout etc but very different pricing. As far as I can tell, it seems to be luck how good a set you get. At the risk of making you feel worse (sorry) your figures at least make me feel better about my set - I was concerned I was measuring up to 0.06mm runout. Clearly not perfect but could have been worse... especially for the money. Better would be nice but, like you, I can't afford or justify spending £50 per collet! Good luck with the next set!
I've been looking on ebay for a collet set, lots of sets quote 0.015mm runout.
0.015 is reasonable and I would be o.k. with that, but you'll probably never know what you'll get.
you should at least be using a test indicator to measure the TIR of those internal bores
Thanks a lot for the video. I've learned a lot from your collet testing.
Brother, may I suggest that you always get your dial indicator as close as possible to 90 degrees to the job to get a true reading. Try and use a lever type dial indicator with the finger also as close as possible to 90 degrees if you want to take an actual true reading. If you just want to get the job as center as possible (no or very little run out) then it doesn't really matter that much.
I've tried several Chinese sets from ER8 to 32. They have all been junk, some much worse than others. I wound up regrinding what I didn't return but most suppliers simply gave me my money back and told me to keep the collets. If you want good collets you have to pay quite a bit for them. I even tried buying slightly higher priced sets that were just as bad. For a decent set you have to pay around $100. US for them.
Rob
I had the same experience with multiple Chinese sets too, they are all useless and waste of money.
Superb honest review, brilliant sir!
OK, they were bad. But what runout would you regard as acceptable, and what would have been good?
I've had similar horror stories with Chinese collet Chucks. If you index them in the same spot every time. Then recut the interior taper you can make them work but you shouldn't have to do that. But I've gotten them back to one tenth of a millimeter or less. Also you may have to recut the register on the nut . If you don't send these back try it and make a video!
I might try regrinding the 16 degree taper on the MT3 collet chuck but regrinding the collet nut will be a hard thing to do.
I don't think the collet nut came from the same factory It looks to well machined for that. So hopefully regrinding the nut won't be needed.
Funny, I have the same damn gravity in my shop.🤔
Hi Rolingmetal, Happy New Year, The collet set is crap, but I would recommend you to test your spindle runout with a MT3 testbar to get a true picture of the runout of what you put into the spindle, a small error in the spindle will be bigger the longer away from the spindle mouth you get. All the best.
I know my old spindle is not the best and you right the internal taper might be a bit of.
But not by much. I think the clip of my old collet chuck proofed that.
Yes, but any error in the spindle is magnified in the tooling you use, more the longer away from the spindle you come, I would start with getting the spindle running dead true, just a suggestion.
Agreed. But getting the spindle dead true is beyond my capabilities. I would involve lots of scraping and specialised measuring equipment. For now I will just try to work around the limitations of my lathe.
Also, these collet chucks were closer to the spindle nose than any work piece in my 3 jaw.
But it might be a good idea to ream out the internal spindle taper. Although a good reamer will cost more than what I paid for the lathe :)
A reamer can only remove high spots (it will always follow the taper) if you have to correct a taper running out you have to grind it or turn it to correct misalignment. One thing you could do is to put som speedmarker on your mt3-mt2 converter and put it in to your spindle and turn it 45 degrees and see if you have some high spots in your spindle taper, if there is some it should be relative easy to grind them down, it also seems to me that when you put the mt3-mt2 converter in your spindle you was able to drive it in a greater distance that I would have thought, that could be an indication that you have some high spots in your spindel. One problem with correcting tapers is that you only have to take of a small amount befor the taper gets to "big" and your tool may not have the length for you to get it all the way in to your taper, if you know what I mean
I wish all reviews were that good. Great job.
Hi there, I bought a cheapie er32 collet set from ebay and had many of the same issues you do, although my collets look a bit better, maybe no dints. Anyway i found using a test indicator that the internal collet taper of the holder was not cocentric with the rest of the holder (off by a lot!). The threads and and outside of the holder were cocentric with the MT though. So I just carefully recut the internal collet taper with it mounted on the lathe and now i have a very accurate holder.
I find that some of the collets have some run out, and on close inspection they still have some burrs inside where the slitting saws went. A quick clean out with a deburrer and now i have an accurate collet set.
For less than AUD$80 for a 20 piece set and a holder, who can argue compared to over AUD$300!!
I don't really think this is a quality control failure here, this is the components that fail quality control for the $300 sets, but are still usable, so they sell them to us! hahahaha a lot of the issues are cosmetic and will not affect accuracy.
Nice work with the video and I hope you get use out of the set.
Cheers
Good to know you successfully fixed up your collet set.
It makes me hopeful for a similar result :)
Buy once, cry once! Love that phrase. Also, I agree... I wanted to gouge my ears out when you started that machine.
Goedkoop is duurkoop, we say over here.
With the old VFD the sound was even worse :) ruclips.net/video/gL1G8DLfzJI/видео.html
Thanks for letting me know about these.
You're welcome. I would also stay away from their flange mounted collet chucks. ruclips.net/video/ADg5m-I-j_g/видео.html
I use a bunch of different brands , many are Iscar that I bought when my milling machine was delivered, but I have been buying individual collets from a local tool supplier who gives me great prices. The brand he sells is Sandvik, but he also sells Vertex collets and holders , which are about half the price. I use the same 4 or 5 collets for the most part, so rather than a set (which I have) from now on I will just buy individual ones when I need them at approx $30 AUD each for Vertex. No difference noticed on the machine between them and Iscar and I am a big fan of Iscar cutters, so Vertex seems to be the cheap option for quality
HBM sells Vertex for 15 euro a piece. To bad they are ER40 and not ER32.
no doubt there are more places to buy them
Thanks for being honest!
I bought an set from china, mtb2 - ER32, 4 -12, 14,16,18,20. Holder: All surfaces grinded, even the face of the chuck, no raw area left. All Edges on 45 degree, threads are grinded. even the M10 inside. the collets are fine grinded with smooth surface. Inside the collets grinding too, but slightly rougher. Runout inside cone 0,008 ( my mill) Inside the collet chuck cone, 0,009 my ( same direction as the spindle) collet, rotatet on 180 deg, runout 0,012 mm. whith an 12mm precision tube, runout 0,018 at 50mm away from the chuck. For 40$ its yery good quality. This ist most, that company produce for high quality companys, and produce more than ordered, selling the rest as noname. So sometimes you can have luck.
Ground, not grinded, there is no such word!
Christ your lathe is an ear murderer for headphone users
Sorry about that :)
At higher speeds it becomes perfectly acceptable, especially since I got my new VFD.
The old VFD would have blown your head of clean!
ruclips.net/video/gL1G8DLfzJI/видео.html
Rolingmetal haha it's alright great videos otherwise
Unless your a dog lol
LOL, that was enough to get me to subscribe. Good honest opinion and calling it what it is. I hate it when people try to make excuses on RUclips for inexcusable quality control. Yep you do need a dial test indicator since the collet chucks taper needs to be checked at the outside and near the bottom of the taper.Other than the eye watering price I highly recommend Bison ER collets and chucks. Zero defects or complaints with them. But there shouldn't be since there industrial quality with a price to match. The very first set of collets you showed in the orange box? I'm unsure if there still doing it, but for awhile maybe 10-12 years ago the Chinese seemed to be producing some collet sets that didn't seem to line up with any known collet standard I could find. It's like they came up with there own collet design and shaped a bit like the ER collets except they were a lot longer and had slightly different and shallower taper angle. That first set looked very much like them. If so you'll never find a replacement for that collet unless you get very lucky.
Welcome in my little online tool temple. I'll upload my next sermon for your viewing pleasure whenever I feel like it :)
I think I found the same set of collets online. They look very similar although the packaging is a bit different.
But the website doesn't mention any collet specification.
www.hbm-machines.com/producten/gereedschap-en-toebehoren/spantangen-en-spantanghouders/hbm-spantangen-en-spantanghouders/hbm-mc-spantangensets
Don't even need the dial, you can see the run-out with the naked eye. Thanks for the review of this garbage, you have done a great service to the community.
Nick Blacklock yeah i can see that
As far as I know, the MTB means no flange (for use with drawer bar), whilst the MTA means has the flange.
I am very fortunate for having some Schaublin collets........... When you check those you think first the dial indicator is either broken or not moving because of not touching the shaft clamped in the collet.... Then you realise it is just 0........ A Swiss 0 meaning 0.000mm And then I read in an old catalog of 1960 that the old collets i have are just the standard precision collets and that even more precise collets can be ordered.........And that also applies for the lathe itself.
my cheap er25 MT3 was actually insanely accurate, even the inserts fit in the cap very snuggly. i couldnt measure any runout, the inserts tho.... oh god, you could see the tool wobble by eye!
Thank you for sure a honest review.
Pardon me for asking but did you test the runout of the test material before measuring its runout in the collet?
That's a fair question. I've used these before for similar tests so I know the are round and straight.
MT3 B Morse Taper #3, B Threaded for Drawbar ( 1/2 x13 USA, 1/2×12 Imperial)
Most Chinese Mills use Imperial Draw Bars, even if rest of machine is Metric.
Guys collets are very important parts, never buy cheap one, i had a bad experice with cheap one, not accurate ( ex-centric) , dont hold the tool well, they break easy, in the middle of a job, i had to change with old original french brand, big difference.
"...and now I have to watch it all again while editing" LOL I feel your pain!
I think you gave this set every chance. No matter the price - these should never have been sold as precision tooling. Granted, the bits can be mostly fixed but how much is your time and effort worth to do so? If they were free then I'd probably fix them. If I paid for them I would get a refund. Maybe do both. Get a refund then fix them :)
I'll give fixing a go. I got them for free so I'm not going to bother getting a replacement set. After seeing Ray Caniglia's video about basically the same set I think a replacement set will be just as bad.
Those collets in the beginning look like TG100 collets, but he only way to know is to measure and compare to catalogs.
They are about 45.15 mm long and 24mm wide. That's close to TG75 but not close enough.
Thanks for making me aware of the existence of TG collets :)
The collet set I bought from a random ebay trash seller was even worse, sent it back. Got another set from a ebay tool seller, and that set was fantastic with nice finish and about 0.002mm runout.
There is a huge difference between ebay sellers. One group of sellers just lists whatever trash they could find, and their ebay store looks like a pound store. Other ebay sellers are genuine tool stores, all they sell are tools, and they seem to have some understanding of what they sell, and seem to perform some evaluation / testing of their products.
nice video, but you should get one of those "parrot foot" adaptors for your indicator, it changes the direction to an offset for bore measuring, Plus it means you don't have to buy one of those expensive milling machine indicators and also use the indicator foot with the ball bearing in it, just like a ball point pen tip, gives less noise!!
Just purchased a cheap set of er40 collets. No better run-out than my 3 jaw Chuck and a lot more errort to use. You get what you pay for, in this case anyway.
I had to bore mine out yesterday as it was running .25mm out!
Always wondered why the ER Collets on my Drill Sharpening Machine gave me beans and did not fit well. Never checked these. Damn. Took them for granted to be well manufactured and running true. Need to go and thoroughly inspect them like U did. What a disappointment and let down. However, some of their products have improved Quality wise - apparently NOT these. Thanks for sharing.
ATB
aRM
This sure was a big disappointment. But you're right, there is good stuff coming from China.
Techniks or Syic collets w/AccuPro holders. A better alternative for cheap tool/work holding.
I just bought this set from Amazon in the same case but you have four more collects then I do. I have not done e any checks on its accuracy.
I have purchased several varieties of ER collet chucks from China, presumably from different vendors. ALL of them had fairly accurate collets, fairly accurate collet chuck bores, and inadequately relieved collet nut bores. I have no idea why this is so. Are these Chinese vendors copying each other’s mistakes? The finish was not so bad as yours. Anyway, be sure to have a look at the relief inside the collet nut, as that was the source of all the runout problems on the chucks I bought, and it was easily fixed.
I think the collet nut might have come from another manufacturer. The machining and finishing is certainly a step up compared to the collet chuck. Maybe all collet manufacturers get their collet nuts from the same place. That would explain your situation.
But you're right that hole feels a bit tight for most collets. One collet hardly didn't fit at all.
"tool temple" lol. I'm stealing this haha
Thank you for saving me from wasting my money!
While yeilding dissappointing results, your video was great. I pondered buying one of these sets, in SAE as I’m in the USA. i may simply buy a chuck from a reputible source and get collets as I need them. Thanks for saving some of us the poor experience. If you find a decent set, at a reasonable price, would you post that source?
You should look into those collets in round transparent containers on aliexpress.
When I have earned enough money with my Banggood affiliate sales I'll probably buy some of those.
You should use a lever type dial indicator to get an actual true reading. The plunger type indicator you used id not meant to be used at an angle. The plunger on this dial or the stylus of a lever type dial indicator should always be as close as possible to square or perpendicular to surface if you want to take an actual reading. If it's not set up the right way and you just want to get the job central, then it doesn't matter.
I've got the same set. Turns out the taper in the collet chuck is different to the taper on the outside of the collets. Mine only make contact in a small band near the front of the collet. I will try to open out the taper in the chuck for full contact
How were you able to accurately determine this problem?
The drillbit in the beginning was mounted wrong. It's supposed to go through the whole collar.
the problem should happen at the hammer tapping process. only the same position the author tap makes taper joint bend. I think.
Use caution in ordering from Banggood. I ordered 6 tool holders and some inserts the first part of December. The first week in January I got a plastic envelope in the mail from the post office. It was marked "Arrived empty" at the Omaha facility. Inside was a paper envelop with the tracking # I had gotten from Banggood and a letter of apology from the Post Office. I photographed everything and sent it to Banggood. I got a reply telling me to go to my local post office and get proof that I had not gotten my stuff. I ended up having to go to the post master's office where they provided me with a letter on USPS letter head, signed by the post master. Very accommodating! I sent that off today, we will see. Not sure how that is going to be any better than the photos of the envelopes.
That sucks, hope it works out.
2 of my Banggood packages never arrived. One was send from China the other came from their EU warehouse, I believe it's in the UK. They were low cost Items so no tracking number. The mail isn't what it used to be :(
Banggood had sent me an email asking if I wanted them to send the tool holders or a refund. I answered send the tool holders. It is now April and I have not gotten neither. Suspect they don't intend to do either. I have sent follow ups but gotten no replies.
If they have resend the tool holders they should show up on your orders list.
That's what happened when they resend my lost package.
(The longest I had to wait for something is 5 weeks)
Nothing on my orders list, April 7, 2018. They obviously has no intention of sending. We have exchanged too many e-mails for them to have not understood. I did everything they asked. The question is, why did they even ask if I wanted the tools or a refund? Just to humor me? Never again!
HAS =have, bad typing.
18 hole egg carton makes a good storage for collets
Great video as always . I don’t buy cheap tools any more , I would rather save my money and buy the best I can. This just gos to show that Chinese cheap tools are totally crap
Bang good is a distributor of all kinds of import products, and I do mean everything including the kitch d n sink. You may never know from one set to the other who manufactured that particular item
In China the manufactures seem to take no pride in de stuff they make.
I'm not sure if that collet chuck is hardened or not but couldn't you take a light pass on the taper to true it up? The collets would still be a problem. I think they're causing more run out than the chuck itself.
Instead of claiming warranty and risk getting the same crap I might ask for an air pencil die grinder and try to re-grind the chuck.
Jay Nobody I like that idea. A CNMA-431 @ 175sfm/.003rev
Yes grinding would be even better.
good thorough review. thanks. enjoying your videos
Thanks Emma. You keep watching and you'll single handedly double the female viewer-ship :)
THE WORD “CHEAP” IN MY DICTIONARY MEANS : IT IS FREAK~N JUNK !!!
OUCH ! Is there any way to fix these things ?. Which a person should not have to. It seems every time I buy something from China,I end up having to work on it. Thank you for showing this.
You can re-grind the collet chuck internal taper with a pencil die grinder fairly easily to true it up (for a given position of the Morse taper). Same method as making a collet chuck from scratch. The collets are not fixable.
Rob
I think I'll ask for one of those small die air die grinders you've been raving about, Rob :)
Can't go wrong there (hopefully) as they all seem to be the same as one I bought about 10 years ago. Kit looks identical. You will get some runout with the discs they use, but at 50K RPM it won't matter. Super handy little tool.
Rob
Hi Rob. Thank you. I liked the rebuild you did on the flame licker engine.
All my best.
Bobby
xynudu f
That set of collets looks pretty bad, but at the end of the video, when you test the last collet and say "Junk!!", you are making a mistake that I already made. Look inside the nut, there is an oval, the collets don't fit there getting in directly, you must introduce it in an inclinated position and rotating at the same time, so the collet fits inside the oval in the nut. Sorry for my bad english, hope you can understand me, not for this time because that set seems to be useless, but for when u get the next one ;)
Someone else also mentioned the offset opening inside the nut as a source of problems.
I will definitely check that out.
I won't be surprised if the collet in question is soft - not hardened.
They are pretty hard. Probably the only thing good about them :)
@@Rolingmetal Brother, I must say I'm surprised. The Chinese produce a load of soft rubbish. I will soon know what the accuracy is of the er 25 chuck that arrived in my country. It's just so frustrating to receive sub standard equipment.
MTA is with drive lip and MTB is with threaded end.
Thank for that. I didn't know there were MT collet chucks with tangs/lips.
Perfect for the tailstock no need to make add an eject stub.
I learned a lot, thanks
Me too, Lee. It was a pretty shocking video. I had no idea stuff could be that bad.
Wow! I can't believe they sell that junk. I would be embarrassed to give it away for free.
Steve
Wow, pretty bad...
I purchased a set of "high quality" Chinese 5C collets from MSC for about $480.00 (full imperial set by 1/64").
They turned out to be excellent.
I purchased a direct mount chuck from CDC and it was shit. Returned it for a chuck and D-4 plate. After fitting the plate and dialing centering the chuck, it goes on and off with less than .01mm tir.
Most stuff from China is crap, but have to say I'm really pleased with my 5C set up.
Banggood also sell a 5c collet chuck and collet. The collets are imperial size and that's not really useful for me.
But I do wonder if those are any good. No reviews so far on the website. goo.gl/DEkJtF
Why would anyone buy a set of collets graduated by 64ths ?
@algird Patrick
5C collets only have about 0.010" of compression, while 1/64" = ~0.015". So to get maximal range, you need smaller size steps.
5C collets get less accurate the more they are compressed, and you can damage the chuck if you over compress them.
5C collets are intended to fit nominal sizes, but stock is often slightly over-sized. I chose to buy an entire set, rather than just buy the ones I need at the moment. Cant say I have used all of them, but I have certainly used most of them.
Having the plus sizes is useful when bringing stock down to size. Material can be roughed down to 0.015" oversized, flipped and turned to size, and flipped again to finish to final size. A good set up will give you consistent results when flipping.
ER collets have a larger compression range, but this is offset by not being able to use just the tip of the collet. You can severely damage both the collet and the chuck by clamping undersized stock at the tip.
The right tool for the job is always a good philosophy - ER collets are meant for tool holding, and should not be used unless you can clamp the entire length of the collet, C series collets are meant for work holding, and should be used with stock that fits the collet properly.
@joshua43214
Jacobs Rubberflex collets with a Jacobs or Sjogren chuck solve the problem of os/us stock over a wide range of diameters.
Each collet, within it's range, maintains full angular contact with the chuck taper, and diametrical contact with the stock, which the " C " series cant do with os/us stock.
Brown & Sharpe made/makes a dull-chrome-plated stub collet with a rubber flexing-member bonded between the segments, which could handle approx +/- .010" stock variation, while also maintaining full angular contact with the taper of the collet chuck, and the dia of the stock.
The chrome wasn't for aesthetics but for lubricity and wear resistance.
One of the features of the B&S collet design is that unlike the " C " series collets, they were " dead-length " which was a requirement for their screw machines.
Have you ever priced a chuck for rubberflex collets?
My whole set up is less than 1/2 the price of a used Jacobs Chuck. The other issue is accuracy, the rubberflex chucks are far from being as accurate as a 5C.
I did a job recently where I had to turn down 303 stainless 3/8" (10mm) stock to 0.110 (2.8mm) for a length of about 3" *76mm). I did this by advancing the work out of the collet in 15mm steps. The runout was not discernable after each advancement. A rubberflex collet can't hold that kind of tolerance.
There is also the issue with rubberflex collets require the work to be deep into the collet, they are not available in square/hex/expanding/etc. No nice accessories like collet blocks and spin-dexers.
They are extremely expensive and extremely fast, but they are not a good solution for most job shop or hobby work.
Anything will only be as tight tolerance as your machine is. As far as precision goes. Cheap collet sets qc goes out the window when you give in for value over precision. Good work isn't cheap and cheap work isn't good.
Banggood name spells it all. Cheap import Chinese made. Not to mention run out tests with a indicator as such lol. No hate towards the video. Its just truths. Thanks for taking the time to make the video.
Great work
Is there any place you can buy a decent collet chuck that isn’t crap? Even if it costs more?
Hmm, guess I better go check out my cheap e-bay 'super precision' collets and chuck....
Thanks for the video.
What do I need and need to do to run collets in my 8” tradesman drill press? I know I know it’s a cheap press but it’s all I got. 1/4hp--1/2 Morse chuck.
Turning into shop mill for wood and stock chuck is to deep will crosscut vise and more importantly can’t tighten up on any my end mills I recently bought.! Please help
I doubt you van buy ready made collet chucks for that.
So your saying that switching my drill press to an er32 is not possible from Morse
your spindle runs out .2 mm? A good collet chucking system isn't going to fix that .2 mm (.008"). That's a terrible amount for the spindle taper to runout.
yes, try collect from M&G production in melbourne, good quality at reasonable price.
They also seem to sell mostly Chinese imported stuff.
But there must be good collets coming from China.
Nice test, Thanks,
Normal case of you get what you pay for, you buy rubbish from china at €80 or you buy quality from UK, Germany, Austria for €300
A very good review sir, and it teaches us all to take nothing for granted, have you had any feedback from Banggood?
Thank you. I left a negative review on the product page with a link to my video.
I expect they will contact me at some point this week.