The "black"is not bluing but rather a different kind of rust and for finis I like shellac coated with rubbed paste wax. The wood is protected and the handle has a more pleasent feel
After doing some more experimentation and looking over their documentation, I finally have a better idea about the black after the Evaporust. It happens to high-carbon steels. When a very slight coating of rust is removed from carbon steel, the carbon that used to be there leaves a small film on the metal. I've also seen an explanation of "carbon migration," but if this happens, it's very minor (on very clean HCS bits, the black doesn't really show up in Evaporust).
@@bricsuc the black carbon residue definitely shows up when using white vinegar as a de-rusting solution. Good content & nice job on that inexpensive but vintage saw. Also, awesome tip about using steel wool w/ mineral spirits to rub down the varnish coats so that it doesn't look like it's been dipped in plastic.
The way you narrated the topic was easy to grasp. There was a lot of bits of information that I picked up, and could add to my repertoire of restoration. Thanks for sharing the tooth chart and your knowledge.
Others have mentioned it, but that the black substance left after Evaporust is rust that's been chemically altered (chelated), but not un-bonded with the chelating agent. One thing to watch out for with Evaporust is to make sure that the object has enough contact with it, and is fully submerged. Otherwise, you may get uneven rust removal, like the 2 sides of the saw. Since you layed it flat, I think parts of the saw might not have gotten much contact with the chemicals. I had a similar situation with a block plane body sitting in a bath of Evaporust for a day or two; it removed all the rust, except for under the price sticker I forgot to remove. The sticker was unharmed, and the adhesive was gone, but the sole of the plane still had some rust there. On a similar note: Evaporust is water-based. You can get small etched lines on metal where it breaks through the surface, if the liquid level drops in your container from the water evaporating.
The two sides of the saw had consistent rust removal. One side had just been far more corroded than the other. The resulting pitting there wasn't particularly nice to look at, but the rust was gone.
It could be that the reason your saw teeth are slipping when the hammer hits the anvil is because of the paste wax applied. Maybe if the wax was applied after setting the slipping wouldn't be an issue. I have that same (or extremely similar) saw set tool & I've never had an issue with it slipping on any of the saws I've set.
That's a possibility. I haven't really thought about it much. But you bring up an interesting point, and now that I think about it, that slipping hasn't happened on the many other saws I've set with this (waxed or not). There might be another contributing factor: This particular saw set is for finer-pitched saw teeth, and the plates for those are normally thinner and don't require a lot of effort. This saw, however, has fine teeth on a rather thick plate, so more effort is required--you're pressing down on that plate at a spot closer to the bottom of a gullet than you normally would at, say, 12TPI or lower. Maybe there's a possible experiment here. Wish I had the time to dig further, but I don't right now.
Pull the brace off the top of the blade and you will find lots of rust. I never saw anyone "restore" this kind of saw without removing that part. I use linseed oil on most of the tools I restore it takes a while, but the oil will harden and is not easily damaged by a scratch. I have a .22 rifle I oiled in the mid 1960's which has no damage of any kind on the stock. You can also use schalic over the well dried oil if you wish.
You bring up some good points. I know this might sound kind of "wrong," but any rust underneath the back is essentially irrelevant because it won't actually slide against any wood when you saw. Sure, it's there, but if it's not actively deteriorating or fusing to the blade, there isn't much functional reason to remove it unless you need to work out some sort of straightness problem with the blade, or if it's giving you funny looks or something. I know that oil vs. varnish tends to veer towards religious debate territory, but the technical differences are often overlooked when someone decides to use one. Oil, though it does polymerize, is still not a film finish. I've finished plenty of handles in oil, and indeed, it's difficult to scratch after it's been on for a while. However, oil isn't great against moisture (see Flexner), and those handles readily soak up sweat. That's not such a bad thing with something like a chisel, because you'd rather a chisel not slip if your hands are sweaty. But because a saw handle's shape gives built-in resistance to slipping, you don't have to worry about that so much. (I don't know if gunstocks work as a similar use case because you don't tend to get all grubby and sweaty using them, but anyways...) I will say, though, that I'd much rather have an oil finish on a saw handle than a poorly-done varnish job. Crappy plastic-looking coatings are so wretched. And varnish (polyurethane in particular) doesn't do itself many favors here, because it requires a fair amount of care (and work) to look good.
I think you're talking about the Veritas Saw File Holder. You can achieve something similar by drilling a hole in a small chunk of hardwood and poking the top of the file in the hole at an appropriate angle--I did this for years before Veritas released the file holder.
This is not correct. The vintage saw is filed rip, and I used it mostly as a rip saw, but at around 29:07, I used it in the crosscut direction to cut of the half-dovetails at the ends of the board; I noted this in the narration. I did this because (1) I didn't want the viewer to get confused when I grabbed yet another saw (2) I was too lazy to go over and grab a crosscut saw, and (3) I wanted to illustrate that it's possible to crosscut with a fine-pitched rip saw, as long as you're not expecting a very clean cut.
Right, no need to fill the pits with metal; that would be kind of overkill. For this saw, the wax made the pitting a non-issue (other than that sometimes people like to see the reflection of the cut on the blade). For repairs on something that's really gone, it's just easier to start with new spring steel or just make a new saw.
It could be that BLO may not feel dry to you because it isn't very protective against moisture (despite what some believe). A handle finished with it will absorb sweat quite easily. I like oil finishes for some furniture projects that aren't going to be subject to a measure of abuse, but it depends on the look that I'm after. Keep in mind that you can varnish on top of oil; if done well, this can provide the look of oil and the protection of varnish.
Could lower saw even more in vise for filing, still has vibrations. File is a little big for 15tpi. A few tips on procedures if I may add. I put blue metal marking die before filing, it makes seeing progress and tooth comparison easier. I agree on most of these small saws being over set after setting. Too even out teeth I use two pieces of aluminum one inch angle iron in my metal vise and wrap saw with copy paper (.003 thick) And squeeze saw teeth, comes out just right.
The saw vise I was using was actually responsible for most of the remaining vibration--typical for that type, but not really an impediment. I've since gotten a Gramercy vise and perhaps it'll feature one day. As for other sharpening steps, it's really all about what gets the job done for you, and if it's done to your satisfaction.
The "black"is not bluing but rather a different kind of rust and for finis I like shellac coated with rubbed paste wax. The wood is protected and the handle has a more pleasent feel
After doing some more experimentation and looking over their documentation, I finally have a better idea about the black after the Evaporust. It happens to high-carbon steels. When a very slight coating of rust is removed from carbon steel, the carbon that used to be there leaves a small film on the metal. I've also seen an explanation of "carbon migration," but if this happens, it's very minor (on very clean HCS bits, the black doesn't really show up in Evaporust).
@@bricsuc the black carbon residue definitely shows up when using white vinegar as a de-rusting solution. Good content & nice job on that inexpensive but vintage saw. Also, awesome tip about using steel wool w/ mineral spirits to rub down the varnish coats so that it doesn't look like it's been dipped in plastic.
loved the detailed video, but also sharing why you do things the way you do them.
The way you narrated the topic was easy to grasp. There was a lot of bits of information that I picked up, and could add to my repertoire of restoration. Thanks for sharing the tooth chart and your knowledge.
Others have mentioned it, but that the black substance left after Evaporust is rust that's been chemically altered (chelated), but not un-bonded with the chelating agent.
One thing to watch out for with Evaporust is to make sure that the object has enough contact with it, and is fully submerged. Otherwise, you may get uneven rust removal, like the 2 sides of the saw. Since you layed it flat, I think parts of the saw might not have gotten much contact with the chemicals.
I had a similar situation with a block plane body sitting in a bath of Evaporust for a day or two; it removed all the rust, except for under the price sticker I forgot to remove. The sticker was unharmed, and the adhesive was gone, but the sole of the plane still had some rust there.
On a similar note: Evaporust is water-based. You can get small etched lines on metal where it breaks through the surface, if the liquid level drops in your container from the water evaporating.
The two sides of the saw had consistent rust removal. One side had just been far more corroded than the other. The resulting pitting there wasn't particularly nice to look at, but the rust was gone.
Beautifully done!!👏👏👏👏👏 to bring back the old saw back to working condition,good job. Thanks 👏👏👏👏👏🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻👍👍👍👍
Are you referring to the Maryland PATINA Tool Swap in Damascus? What a great event.
Yes, it's the PATINA event. Glad to have something like that local to me.
"if the saw is valuable ... don't do this ... sell it and buy 50 more with the proceeds" 😂
It could be that the reason your saw teeth are slipping when the hammer hits the anvil is because of the paste wax applied. Maybe if the wax was applied after setting the slipping wouldn't be an issue.
I have that same (or extremely similar) saw set tool & I've never had an issue with it slipping on any of the saws I've set.
That's a possibility. I haven't really thought about it much. But you bring up an interesting point, and now that I think about it, that slipping hasn't happened on the many other saws I've set with this (waxed or not). There might be another contributing factor: This particular saw set is for finer-pitched saw teeth, and the plates for those are normally thinner and don't require a lot of effort. This saw, however, has fine teeth on a rather thick plate, so more effort is required--you're pressing down on that plate at a spot closer to the bottom of a gullet than you normally would at, say, 12TPI or lower.
Maybe there's a possible experiment here. Wish I had the time to dig further, but I don't right now.
Pull the brace off the top of the blade and you will find lots of rust. I never saw anyone "restore" this kind of saw without removing that part. I use linseed oil on most of the tools I restore it takes a while, but the oil will harden and is not easily damaged by a scratch. I have a .22 rifle I oiled in the mid 1960's which has no damage of any kind on the stock. You can also use schalic over the well dried oil if you wish.
You bring up some good points.
I know this might sound kind of "wrong," but any rust underneath the back is essentially irrelevant because it won't actually slide against any wood when you saw. Sure, it's there, but if it's not actively deteriorating or fusing to the blade, there isn't much functional reason to remove it unless you need to work out some sort of straightness problem with the blade, or if it's giving you funny looks or something.
I know that oil vs. varnish tends to veer towards religious debate territory, but the technical differences are often overlooked when someone decides to use one. Oil, though it does polymerize, is still not a film finish. I've finished plenty of handles in oil, and indeed, it's difficult to scratch after it's been on for a while. However, oil isn't great against moisture (see Flexner), and those handles readily soak up sweat. That's not such a bad thing with something like a chisel, because you'd rather a chisel not slip if your hands are sweaty. But because a saw handle's shape gives built-in resistance to slipping, you don't have to worry about that so much. (I don't know if gunstocks work as a similar use case because you don't tend to get all grubby and sweaty using them, but anyways...)
I will say, though, that I'd much rather have an oil finish on a saw handle than a poorly-done varnish job. Crappy plastic-looking coatings are so wretched. And varnish (polyurethane in particular) doesn't do itself many favors here, because it requires a fair amount of care (and work) to look good.
What is the name of the jig/guide/mitre gauge you used to help sharpen the teeth? Thanks
I think you're talking about the Veritas Saw File Holder. You can achieve something similar by drilling a hole in a small chunk of hardwood and poking the top of the file in the hole at an appropriate angle--I did this for years before Veritas released the file holder.
Good price for that saw. And the saw is coming out good. Best wishes from Germany
*_Friend, you have two different saws in the video. On one there are teeth for a longitudinal cut, on the second for a transverse cut._*
This is not correct. The vintage saw is filed rip, and I used it mostly as a rip saw, but at around 29:07, I used it in the crosscut direction to cut of the half-dovetails at the ends of the board; I noted this in the narration. I did this because (1) I didn't want the viewer to get confused when I grabbed yet another saw (2) I was too lazy to go over and grab a crosscut saw, and (3) I wanted to illustrate that it's possible to crosscut with a fine-pitched rip saw, as long as you're not expecting a very clean cut.
Nice video Brian.
On a more serious note: does the paste wax make the pitting a non-issue in the cut? No need to fill the pits with any metal filler and sand back down?
Right, no need to fill the pits with metal; that would be kind of overkill. For this saw, the wax made the pitting a non-issue (other than that sometimes people like to see the reflection of the cut on the blade). For repairs on something that's really gone, it's just easier to start with new spring steel or just make a new saw.
Nice work, thanks!
Agree with polyurethane. Not a fan of boiled linseed oil, Paul Sellars likes that, I could never get it to dry.
It could be that BLO may not feel dry to you because it isn't very protective against moisture (despite what some believe). A handle finished with it will absorb sweat quite easily. I like oil finishes for some furniture projects that aren't going to be subject to a measure of abuse, but it depends on the look that I'm after. Keep in mind that you can varnish on top of oil; if done well, this can provide the look of oil and the protection of varnish.
Glad to find this 🙌
Could lower saw even more in vise for filing, still has vibrations. File is a little big for 15tpi. A few tips on procedures if I may add. I put blue metal marking die before filing, it makes seeing progress and tooth comparison easier. I agree on most of these small saws being over set after setting. Too even out teeth I use two pieces of aluminum one inch angle iron in my metal vise and wrap saw with copy paper (.003 thick) And squeeze saw teeth, comes out just right.
The saw vise I was using was actually responsible for most of the remaining vibration--typical for that type, but not really an impediment. I've since gotten a Gramercy vise and perhaps it'll feature one day. As for other sharpening steps, it's really all about what gets the job done for you, and if it's done to your satisfaction.
Looks great! Thanks for sharing this video, Brian.
mesmerisingt...
Elinden çok ağzın çalışıyor, iş yap iş elin çalışsın 😡
İzlediğim en berbat restorasyon vidyosu
5 billion strokes for a 20mm deep cut??? holy crap,the worst sharpening i've ever seen!!!!
5B < 5: ruclips.net/video/1lwgoqE1hNU/видео.html
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