Remake It! Ganondorf's Smash Moveset
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- Опубликовано: 17 июн 2022
- Designing movesets for Smash Bros. is a complicated and surprisingly deep process. Adapting a character's canon abilities while keeping them balanced, fun to play, and unique among the roster (echo fighters aside) takes a trained hand, and it's something Sakurai and the other developers have handled very well...with occasional exceptions. And when a character's moveset doesn't feel quite right, Smash fans start asking for the next game to...remake it.
This episode, we're focusing on one of the standout examples of a moveset that doesn't feel quite right. Ganondorf may have snuck into Melee by virtue of pulling off a copy of Captain Falcon's moveset, but the more time has passed, the worse it's aged. If the next title were to give the Demon King the overhaul many have been waiting for, how could it be done in a way that enhances his moveset, plays more closely to his source material, and makes him more competitively viable while keeping enough traits of his current moveset to avoid abandoning the fans he already has? Let's see how that might play out.
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The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds - Yuga-Ganon Battle (BossBattleCentral): • The Legend of Zelda: A...
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - Ganondorf Battle (XHolyPuffX): • Legend of Zelda: Ocari...
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Rickles (Ganondorf) vs. Charliedaking (Wolf) (VGBootCamp): • Frostbite 2020 SSBU Po... Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Vermanubis (Ganondorf) vs. Pokepen (Isabelle) (VGBootCamp): • Smash Ultimate Tournam... h 
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I like this moveset, but I would change two things: One, keep his down air as is. Everyone loves Ganon's stomp and nobody likes stall and falls. Secondly, I'd give down-B something to do while under 100%. Off the top of my head, he could have something like Hero's Pysche Up, where he can empower his next move after charging up for a couple of seconds. For balancing, this 'Malice Boost' won't affect the move's shield damage or safety, and if he takes more than 7% before using the boost he loses it. The boost also wouldn't be as powerful as Pysche Up, since most of Ganon's moves are already dummy strong.
I agree, his current Down Air is very satisfying to land, super strong, and it does suit Ganondorf very well, like a tyrant stomp
Down air is just a copy of Falcon's... destroy it completely please, you all are clearly biased
@@lunarkomet it looks better on Ganon than it does on Falcon tbh
@@lunarkomet same to you to, we’re the people playing him anyways mate
Glad to see someone defending the stomp!
I really like this take as a current Ganondorf main & I appreciate you actually trying to preserve his general play style & balance it rather than making him an overpowered zoner. If I had to suggest something that isn't replacing a special move, I would maybe have the trident floating behind him when he's not using it to preserve most of his current idle animations & maybe also have him float for his run like Cloud, Sephiroth, & Sora do.
having his trident be floating alongside him could also prevent some of the unchanged moves like NAir from looking awkward, since hed be holding a weapon now
Another possible route might be one similar to what French Bread did with Gordeau's scythe in Under Night In-Birth: have Ganon's trident materialize out of thin air for moves that actually use it, then disappear.
Ganondorf would NOT anime-float-run lmao
You know what, I love your idea. He has the Triforce of Power, that does make sense.
@@TotPocket I think he could do the float well, but more like Magneto from MvC2 where it’s more upright and menacing
I love the idea of the tier 3 neutral special destroying reflectors, it’s fitting. The man’s busted power should be that chunky in damage
Tier 3 Warlock's Wrath... *oh god...* the description given for that move sounds horrifying. The whole moveset is horrifying, I love it. I sure hope someone can mod this into the game and not get in trouble for it.
Since Vishera has returned, I think we might have an ace up our sleeve.
I think for the darkness effects, they should be purple ish red colored instead of purple, to reference calamity Ganon and his piece of the triforce, the triforce of power
So like Wizard’s Assualt from Smash 4?
@@slimballs9650 exactly
I'm surprised you went with reflavoring his Neutral and Up Specials instead of replacing them outright, but the charge mechanic for the specials is pretty cool. Maybe there could be a visual indicator related to the Triforce of Power when they are charged? I also agree with not changing Flame Choke at all, that move is perfect for Ganondorf. Not much else to say, this moveset looks pretty good!
Flame Choke also comes from Twilight Princess, and it’s a pretty unique grab too
One Triangle for base charge and two for second, right? In that case, when Ganondorf uses True Power, the Triforce indicator can be inverted since on Demise's sword, the Triforce is upside down and darkened.
I dig the True Power idea, but you didn't mention what would happen if you try to use it before you hit the threshold. Would it just fail, leaving him with only three special moves until he's damaged enough? Either way, great moveset overhaul.
If you try to activate True Power when he's under 100%, it just fails. In hindsight, I should've clarified that.
imo, using True Power while under 100% should hurt Ganondorf. Not that much, just like 5% for every second it’s held down. That way, it’s a risk to use, for sure, but it’s an option if you want to take that risk and go all in with the Demon King’s true strength.
@@TEBArceus Seems fitting and in-character too, like some kind of demented Limit Break charge
@@Delzethin If Robin needs to have durability to use spells, than that makes it hard to give spells to a Character as heavy as Ganon.
@@Delzethin
I think it should be something he has access to all the time, but it lasts longer and the effects are stronger the higher percent he’s at.
As a Ganon main, I agree with Sean Bird and Zooker in that I like all the new changes save the new down air. People don't realize that giving someone as powerful as Ganondorf a projectile/reflector can be a balancing nightmare, especially at a casual level. I would suggest making it so using Down B under 100% results in a Wizard Foot that does recoil damage, like Charizard Side B. This way Ganon has a way of building up to the REAL Down B without sacrificing a special move at the start of a fresh stock. But other than that really good rework.
Just make it the The same as the one from SSF2
@@Zerorenren4761 The reason why Gannon is portrayed this way is because Sakurai is focusing on the most important part of Gannon's character, power. Since Ganon has the Triforce of Power he should a moveset that should reflect that. The problem is how do you balance sheer power. Sakurai feels that Gannon being a Falcon clone is the easiest way to balance that power. Remember not every character in Smash can be as powerful as their games for balance reasons, Bayonetta is a good example.
I’d have it be the wizard dropkick from his custom moves in SSB4. Lot’s of people agree that it was a big improvement over the regular wizard’s foot
I think it stands to how much of an awkward spot Ganon and in a larger sense Smash Bros is in when someone like myself who is a huge proponent of the idea of shrinking the cast to refine older characters couldn't stop thinking "no don't change that, I like that move!" whenever a change was suggested. I guess that's what happens when you are stuck with as strong of a base as Falcon.
I think a good idea to fix that problem is to give ganon’s old moveset to black shadow or whatever f zero character fits (and make them an echo of falcon) and then redo Ganondorf. While I like this moveset, I think making ganon a half zoner/bruiser fits him better. But I gotta admit true power is a pretty cool concept and I’d like to see that in the game.
@@Ai-mu7pe That won't work, Black Shadow is just as fast as Falcon, so Ganon's moveset wouldn't fit an F-zero character. The reason why Gannon is portrayed this way is because Sakurai is focusing on the most important part of Gannon's character, power. Since Ganon has the Triforce of Power he should a moveset that should reflect that. The problem is how do you balance sheer power. Sakurai feels that Gannon being a Falcon clone is the easiest way to balance that power. Remember not every character in Smash can be as powerful as their games for balance reasons, Bayonetta is a good example.
@@orangeslash1667 did you copy paste this comment, because it's literally word for word what you said in another comment.
I like the idea of the alt costumes giving certain characters their old movesets. So for example, Ganon would have a costume that is one of his previous designs, but would have his old moveset.
@@ZeothTheHedgehog Do you expect me write a new argument every single time??? That is WAY too much work. Besides people need to learn the hard way that Sakurai doesn't care about representation, because he takes balance way too seriously. Now if Nintendo were to ask us if there are ideas on how to improve certain characters, then this types of videos would be fine. Sadly I don't think that's likely.
YES YES YES! I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS! GODLY WORK!
OK, I love what you've done with Ganondorf here! But despite him having played as a Bruiser for so long in Smash (thanks Falcon), he's always felt off to me. Any long time Zelda fans know that above all else, Ganondorf is a Sorcerer. If I were in charge of remaking Ganondorf's Moveset from the Ground up, I'd build off of his Dark Sorcery, with powerful Melee attacks being the secondary focus.
I totally agree. Ganondorf is a wizard king, who uses magic and trickery as much as sword and brute force
@@mourmelon The reason why Gannon is portrayed this way is because Sakurai is focusing on the most important part of Gannon's character, power. Since Ganon has the Triforce of Power he should a moveset that should reflect that. The problem is how do you balance sheer power. Sakurai feels that Gannon being a Falcon clone is the easiest way to balance that power. Remember not every character in Smash can be as powerful as their games for balance reasons, Bayonetta is a good example.
I'm not a huge Zelda or Ganon fan, so all I can say is that this redesign sounds super fun to play as. I noticed one thing I would change, that being his down-B. I believe it should have a use when under 100% damage. Maybe it could give Ganondorf damage to make it quicker for him to unleash true power. Or it could be a powered down version of his down-B explosion from true power.
This is a little late but an idea I'd suggest is make down b function similar to jokers down b, he slams his trident into the ground and crosses his arms with a dark aura around him, rather than charging anything it just allows the enemy to wail on him, no knockback but full damage
@@lazarus1540 I like that idea, he just becomes Senator Armstrong.
@@CaptBlock yeah! Glad it sounds good haha, I felt it lined up well with his character too, giving his down b function and making him a badass just felt right
I love Ganondorf's intricate headpieces. They really add to the scariness of his design.
Love the concept, especially for that down special. Ganon more than any other villain deserves to truly feel imposing like a final boss.
The thing about the trident is that I really want beast Ganon to be a seperate character with the trident. We have three Links and technically two Zeldas so another form of Ganon(dorf) does not seem far-fetched at all in my book. So if we had the blue boar as well, I'd actually give Ganondorf dual swords like he uses in Wind Waker and Hyrule Warriors (and the finale of Oot, but that's also beast Ganon).
Regardless, I do like this a lot as opposed to the approach most people seem to have with just slapping a single sword on him, which he's never used except for the sages' sword in Twilight Princess (and that Spaceworld Demo, I suppose).
I was honestly a bit sceptical of Down Special being manually activated while Sephiroth for example gets his wing as a passive buff. But after listing the drawbacks and it being a deal with the devil to turn yourself into a true final boss, I really love the idea of it. The only thing I don't particularly like about it is that it seemingly has no use at all as long as Ganondorf is still below 100%
The only thing I feel is missing here - and I get why it does, since we're not really going for a character with a projectile here, and you do mention it at the very end - is Dead Man's Volley simply on the grounds that I'd say it's Ganondorf's most iconic move. But as I said, I do totally get that it clashes with the rest of his kit.
All in all a very nice overhaul of the fighter that arguably needs one the most.
I've thought about this before, and I thought it would be cool if for his side B he thrust out his trident to stab an opponent and bring them in as a command grab, kind of like how Samus grab works
The other thing is his up B, which I reckon should be Ganon swinging his trident above him like he does in Link to the Past
His Side Special is already excellent, why not make that his actual grab (which sucks)?
I think wario needs a remake, with a moveset that maintains his core playstyle while working in inspiration from wario land and his Mario appearances
Another amazing video, yet again! Absolutely loving this series ♡
If I may be so bold as to put an idea out there, though moreso just for the sake of seeing others' reactions - One thing I'd absolutely love to see would be a rework of Lucario's moveset, maybe to make him somewhat more in-line with other appearances, possibly using actual things of his such as the trademark bone it is often seen wielding. Right now he just feels tired, old, and dissatisfying.
I think if you want to remake a moveset, Mewtwo is prime for one IMO. 90% of its attacks are either tail slaps or purple darkness; it doesn't FEEL like you're playing as the world's strongest psychic. Looking at the Pokken moveset is such an improvement over the Smash one
To be honest, I dislike the idea of purely pulling moves from his trident. A lot of his modern appearances don't have him really use that, so it's better being used for only some attacks, while sword strikes and magic make up most of it. Also, True Power is better as a Shield B or a passive akin to Sephiroth's winged abilities or Joker's Arsene mechanic.
I think, before 100%, True Power should work like a very slow version of cloud's limit charge. Just gives him something to do before hitting 100% and potentially allows for more use.
Ganon main here.
I absolutely love this. Playing like this would feel like being an almighty demon king. I personally would have still tried to incorporate his tennis ball move, but True Power is one I honestly want added to the game because of just how overwhelmingly powerful it sounds.
Hope you can do Sonic justice too!
I like keeping flame choke, but I think making it more like bowser's side b in pm would be cooler. having multiple throws that change in the air for more calculated positioning would make him even scarier than the new range already does
I imagine Ganondorf's neutral tilt to be a back hand.
This moveset was absolutely amazing! The only thing I’d change is to incorporate the wizards volley as his down special. I know you mentioned not meshing well with this moveset, but I beg to differ. I think a heavier projectile with shorter range, heavier damage, and longer startup would work well here; somewhere in between wolf blaster and Bowser Jr. Canonball. It could also linger for a little while and pass through enemies to allow for some trapping and combo follow ups! The level two version could cause him to rise up and throw a couple small orbs at a downward diagonal angle. The stage three would be the power slam that you had previously mentioned as his stage three down special.
Alternatively, you could use this move as an up special similar to Mythra’s, but slower and stronger.
Great ideas all around!
you could also definitely pull from Corrin here and make it stun you for a second since it's an electric attack and would gel well with a heavyweight with subpar mobility, maybe as the tier 2 or 3 charge? definitely shouldn't be base form
I like how you consider playstyle- making a character play fittingly for that character or his game- and I'm impressed that you try to keep it familiar for current players. Good job with this series!
Personally, I would take all of old Ganondorf, where applicable, and move it to a Captain Falcon Echo Fighter, Black Shadow. Rebalancing could be then considered for him, but it would keep the moves G-dorf fans enjoy more or less intact, but freeing the Demon King to be more representative of his true self.
As someone who played a ton of Ganondorf in Melee & PM, I’d be happy with these changes. Also, I love how this was uploaded a day before my birthday (obviously I helped work on the video, but you get my point).
Happy early womb eviction day
@@rueme4228 Thank you, seriously.
A fun idea with the tipper on dorf’s new final smash is maybe a bit where, if he catches them with the tipper, he turns around before the trident flies out of his hands (still carrying the opponent), and then back towards his outstretched arm in a way similar to Incineroar’s clothesline move. Same functionality, just takes an extra second and really conveys the power that Ganondorf can hit you with.
Nice, man. I respect that you didn't go for the Ganon projectile tennis thing to stay true to the design philosophy of Ganon. That's why you're the best moveset creator on youtube.
If Ganondorf got an overhaul in a future game, I don't want him to be held back by his previous moveset. He should get a complete rework and his old moveset should be given to Black Shadow from F-ZERO.
Not only Black Shadow makes since as a echo of Captain Falcon, but that make him both the second rep of F-Zero and another villain character. I surprise me how he not playable in smash yet.
I agree, only keep the few unique moves he has to satisfy the fans and make a whole new moveset otherwise
@@lunarkomet The reason why Gannon is portrayed this way is because Sakurai is focusing on the most important part of Gannon's character, power. Since Ganon has the Triforce of Power he should have a moveset that should reflect that. The problem is how do you balance sheer power. Sakurai feels that Gannon being a Falcon clone is the easiest way to balance that power. Remember not every character in Smash can be as powerful as their games for balance reasons, Bayonetta is a good example.
@@goldshell9992 I think Black Shadow is taller than Caption Falcon, Echo fighters must be the same height as the originals.
@@orangeslash1667 Wait, for real? Maybe he can be his own fighter if being an echo fighter don't work on him.
As a ganon main, I think it would work really well, but I think some moves should have stayed, such as down air
As someone who's been maining Ganondorf since Melee, I can say without a doubt that this is THE best Ganon moveset overhaul I've seen. My only thing that I'd change would be to either keep his down air instead of it being a stall n' fall, or rip off Byleth's down air and put a spike on the tipper.
Honestly I was surprised I didn't see Dead Man's Volley anywhere in the moveset, considering how frequently we see him use it (Phantom Ganon, OoT Ganondorf, Puppet Zelda, Yuganon, etc).
That said you did a sick job at recreating his moveset and making him more true to his actual canon interpretations
I gotta say i love this video, everything in here is fucking great and it makes him sound like a DLC character. really sparks my imagination for others. my only real criticism is the down special
the super powered state is a sick idea, and i totally understand it being 100%+ only, but i just don't vibe with it being unusable until you reach 100%. not because of balance, just because not having a down special for most of the match feels like shit. there are a few ways to fix that i think.
you could give him a normal, always usable down special that transforms him if he uses it when over 100%. when at 100%, you would still have to consider at what time to use the special to transform, without losing a whole move slot.
alternatively, you could give him a unique input. smash does this very rarely, but they DO have it. most obviously in the fighting game characters, but also in Peach(float) and Inkling(shield+special). we could go with a "reverse float" input where he has to hold down for a short time, charging up his power. or you could make it a hold+release input, where you have to hold special for X seconds and then release it. this would combo well with his held specials, you could hold the button down for a powerful flame choke that leads into your transformation when you release the button after dropping your enemy. and of course you could just make it shield+special when above 100%!
I was thinking you could add the tennis reference and make the down special a bad reflect, where he reflects the projectile but also takes some or all of the damage. This way it would be somewhat useful skill but still wouldn't stop him from getting to that 100% to unleash the real skill.
@@Banaanivatkuliganon was in a tennis game??
@@MrBoingus haha, no I mean the Ocarina of Time fight of hitting a light ball back and forth with Link
@@Banaanivatkuli OH LMAO MY BAD
thats a decent idea actually, a reflect that still hurts him to help him reach his full power. maybe it could be a full counter move similar to Incineroar's that doesn't necessarily immediately give huge reward
I like SSBU's Ganondorf considering he's using his sword and is less of a Captain Falcon clone and he's much more his own character; still your video is rather interesting since the ideas you came up with are really good 👍
Very well done - the videos are always super well structured
For F-Smash I would imagine something like links dash attack with the charge/chamber animation being Ganon having a hand behind him while the Trident Spins and on release takes a a short leap forward and performing a powerful overhead slash.
With down air I would like to add the addition that he only goes after the Trident if he hits a surface so there would be a delayed landing.
I would keep his forward throw and instead replace back throw with your idea, but make forward throw an actual kill throw we can't loose that gut punch.
With up special just give him a teleport with his dark portal he uses for the intro animation and keep the grab and the swipe at the end, the cool thing here could be that the grab let's you teleport the opponent into the direction the Ganon player is holding, by sending them through the portal.
I know I’m not the first to say this, but removing Gannondorf’s stomp for a stall and fall is kind of lame, you’ve removed one of his most popular moves. Along side this is the other major problem I have with the moveset, with the removal of the stomp and Wizard Foot, Gannon no longer has any spike moves, and Gannon without a spike move just feels wrong.
(edit) Forgot to mention that other than those complaints I think the moveset is very solid.
This moveset looks super cool. Kinda reminds me of Incineroar, very good moves held back by speed. Sounds super fun to use
Possibly obligatory "Do not look away. You witness a king's revival."
Seeing this makes me wish Sakurai and the Smash team watched your videos and took notes. Yeah, he has his sword, but it's not enough. Implementation of the trident was game changer, including the new down special.
Great vid, love the new move set. SO CLOSE TO 20K!
Pretty sold redesign, I love the idea of giving Ganondorf an install.
One question tho, what does down b do below 100%?
I love this concept for Ganon. Although I think he should keep the same Down air, cuz the stomp is hype, and instead use your idea for the Trident dive as the down b and instead of pressing down b maybe the true power activates automatically kinda like sephiroth. Or it can activate on the first use of a special when at 100%. Also I would love if his side b didn’t send him into free fall but that might make his recovery a bit… much
Now this episode hasn't aged well since Tears of the Kingdom's release.
Commenting on the video to support the channel
Personally, I think his forward tilt is a little to similar to his forward smash. And volcano kick is really cool. I'd like keep volcano kick rather then forward tilt. So down tilt becomes forward tilt, down tilt becomes volcano kick, and he keeps a decent anti air up tilt.
Also the frame data bumps especially if he keeps his insane kill power is probably a little much with how much mixup potential he has. And as far as his down special goes, it'd be cool if it delt damage to himself when he casted it under 100, like 10%+ and did something.
Dang these moves are cool I'm down for them as a Ganondorf main. True power would be so cool. Also the way you speak is intertaining and funny man.... also I subscribed👊
A few things I would personally give Ganon would be a quick, short reflect hitbox on Jab, and a float on his second jump, similar to his boss fight in Ocarina and the OG Zelda
I think there was a missed opportunity with the trident, that is that ganondorf is known to use the trident for combos and I feel like for some moves such as forwards smash ganondorf should be able to copy link and press the button multiple times to combo with the move. Maybe make it so that each hit has high hitstun so that the combo works but each individual attack can still launch foes.
I redesigned Ganondorf myself before finding this video. I used a sword instead of the spear and made all of his normal’s inspired by either Ike, Cloud, or Chrom. I also made his neutral special the Dead Man’s Volley, his up special a float, and his down special a reflective backhand.
You definitely did more research than I did
Now that TotK is out I feel like theres very simple ways to adjust his moveset to be more true to him without needing to completely replace any of his moves. I think at most a reflavoring would do, like turning warlock kick into a stabbing thrust, making gloom or malice surround his warlock punch (and change the animation just a tad), and make his final smash into dark beast ganon from BotWs ending
which like I know we're going for a composite here but that ganondorf basically is a composite version
Super well done
Sounds awesome overall!
Smashing video once again, Delzethin! :D I'm still baffled that to this day Ganondorf is STILL almost identical to Captain Falcon despite there being plenty of source material to make him stand out. XD Honestly, I think this is by the best de-cloned moveset of the King Of Evil I've ever seen! You have done an excellent job of balancing a mixture of several of Ganon's previous attacks with a bit of finesse, while also adapting material from his games to fit his character! I am very satisfied with this upgrade, and if there is a sixth Smash installment, hopefully Sakurai, and crew will bring his moves from the Zelda series, whether coincidentally like this, or even a few of them! Not the next video, but perhaps for a future Remake It! video, you could take a look at another famous Super Mario princess, and perhaps make her not so similar to Princess Peach while maybe still keeping a handful of moves from her current moveset, though with a bit of extra tweaking (I know I'd be satisfied if Daisy wasn't too derived from our Mushroom Kingdom princess counterpart)! ;) Keep up the smashing work!
I hope Smash 6 reworks veterans like Samus, Sonic, Ganondorf that have lackluster moves. Also I'll upvote your suggestion to remake the best character from the Mario series ;)
@@CaptBlock Same. Those guys are in desperate need of upgrades! :P Hey, thanks, I appreciate it! :D
@@kingnewcomer2029 The reason why Gannon is portrayed this way is because Sakurai is focusing on the most important part of Gannon's character, power. Since Ganon has the Triforce of Power he should a moveset that should reflect that. The problem is how do you balance sheer power. Sakurai feels that Gannon being a Falcon clone is the easiest way to balance that power. Remember not every character in Smash can be as powerful as their games for balance reasons, Bayonetta is a good example.
I really like the ideas presented, especially the introduction of more range and options to his kit. I think he could maybe have less trident-stabbing moves at least; his side tilt, side smash, and neutral special could be even more distinct then. Hell, I'd be fine keeping his side smash with the sword
Hecc yeah! Been really excited for this one.
That down air replacement is a hard no from me. The current stomp plays an important role in Ganon's combo and edgeguarding game, whereas a stall 'n' fall basically can't do either. The trident disjoint would make it a better anti-juggling tool, but that isn't a good enough trade-off.
Great vid! Not a big fan of the new down air and I wish Ganondorf's new Down B did something before 100%, but other than that, it's very good!
Still no Phoenix Wright tho lol
I do like a lot of the ideas here, some more than ones I'd make for him. Though, to be honest, I feel there's a couple of things I'd change to this moveset.
-I'd revert the changes to Forward Tilt and Down Air. Forward Tilt is a reference to the one fight in Twilight Princess, and I feel it still fits this moveset pretty well. I'd keep Down Air because it's way too iconic of a spike to just take away, even if it's just Captain Falcon's, but slower.
-I'd change his Down Tilt. It just feels a bit too awkward on Ganondorf. I'd let that be a trident sweep or poke instead of the Forward Tilt.
-I'd change his Neutral Air. As good as it is, I don't think it fits Ganondorf, either. Maybe something similar to Mewtwo's Neutral Air, but it does only one strong hit.
Everything else is really good. I would much rather have his cape and Dead Man's Volley, but if he had to be a bruiser with no projectiles, I'd want this.
I totally agree, except for down air since people only want it because it's a meme despite being very unoriginal
I think the forward tilt listed here could easily be moved to a jab for a long range poke, but I do like the idea of converting jab to a more Roy-esc one. That's where we slot in the current forward tilt back in and make up an entirely new down tilt, maybe one to serve a similar purpose to the jab where it's a quick 1-2 combo starter
Cool moveset, HOWEVER
I'd give him float, and dead man's volley for neutral b. Fits the charge specials theme you've got, gives him a projectile, and is actually usable competitively.
Yea, I entirely agree with the additions of hover and deadman's volley
Would however like if ganondorf had different side b, Have it be the spirit bomb from hyrule warriors and give him dual swords from windwaker instead of the current sword that he uses which was never used in a game
@@bob74h67 I think trident is more representative of the character as a whole
@@sheridan5175
"Trident is more representive"
Sword is more ganondorf's thing
Ganon ie the pig form uses trident
@@bob74h67 but he's only used his WW swords once
And it could be the trident phantom ganon uses
It just makes more sense to me, and it allows for a sense of brutality with him stabbing people like a fish
@@sheridan5175
"He only uses ww swords once"
True but he's used swords in general fair bit
In ocarnina as ganon, he used twin swords
In twlight, he used that one light sword
I think having swords as a apart of his moveset is a good thing due to it being consistent with his character from the games
The trident is a thing sure but as said feels like more of a ganon thing, most of it's usage comes from the 2d styled classic zelda games where ganondorf is nonexistent
Ganon has that more brutal side being corrupted by the triforce of power but ganondorf proper never had that sense of brutality, acted more elegantly keeping a ferm posture and being fairy composed
TEARS OF THE KINGDOM SPOILERS
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Man, it’s crazy to see how perfectly this direction would fit with TOTK Ganondorf
I think this does a good job of making him more true to the series while keeping his devastating attack power. I especially like his new down B. It's a really cool gimmick that makes sense for Ganondorf's character and playstyle.
So much potential
I would love to see more intimidation and boss-factor added to Ganon's animations. Imagine that he only walks, so that his run is just a fast walk witb large steps. That, or maybe his run is a hover similar to mewtwo. Nothing would me more intimidating than a foghter who knows his power and doesnt really look like he is trying that hard. Id love to change his backthrow from the kick to just a casual whip behind with little effort, it would add to the "boss character" feel
Not so sure about the walk, but him hovering sounds really really cool
I wonder how this move set concept would change in the wake of TOTK?
I would say this is a very good overhaul, The only change I would make is give side b or neutral b a reflector hitbox, give him a fireball for his down b, and then make true power an input move like back, forward, b.
It would be cool if in this reworked set, Ganondorfs held B version of Warlocks Wrath could have that same vacuum effect his current up A has. Making it even more stressful if you're near enough to get drawn in to massive damage
Phantom Ganon could be his own separate character, that whilst lighter than normal Ganondorf, utilises his iconic floating gimmick, similar to the princesses, as well as the Energy Tennis, functioning somewhat similar to Duck Hunt, in the way you can set up his projectiles for follow ups off of other moves.
He is slow on the ground, but has air speed comparable to wario's and the same float command as the princesses. Phantom Ganon players will mostly be seen in the air.
His side special being his Trident charge from OoT can be used to gain distance or make some, as a zoner character that he is, and scopes enemies upwards, allowing for great follow-ups.
Down special is a chargeable move, that shows Phantom Ganon slowly making more clones of himself. When released, he does a big horizontal spin, with increased damage and range dependent on how many clones are produced. As he charges it, the clones slowly move outwards to cover more range, but the move has really big end-lag, making it really risky if you miss.
For his up special, he has a teleport, similar to Mewtwo, which doesn't put him into free fall at all and gives him some aggression in the air especially. Phantom Ganon excells as an aerial fighter, with his ground moves all being slightly more laggy, other than his jab, which is his primary move to launch back his spheres.
Neutral special is his energy sphere. This can be charged to form a giant sphere which when thrown will lob 6 projectiles instead of 1, with a big endlag attached to it, so if his opponent gets through them all, they can get a punish, but they make can make for an exceptional edgeguard, as a player will be forced to use one of their jumps/airdodges which can lead to an SD. Whilst an energy sphere is already active pressing Neutral special again will cause Phantom ganon to perform a defensive spin with low damage that launches upwards, for immediate aerial follow-ups as well as setting up his spheres to potentially his enemies on returns in bigger stages where they can turn back around.
Phantom Ganon, whilst fairly heavy, has one of both the weakest but fastest jabs in the game. He simply spins his Trident around, which also doubles as a really good move to cancel other character's weaker hits if timed properly. He doesn't clash blades and instead, this move can also act as a parry, allowing him to perform a quick tilt punish... if he gets you in the air, you best be careful!
All of his tilts are relatively slow, and are mainly used to keep space between Phantom ganon and his opponents thanks to disjoints. Horizontal forward tilt POKE, a sweeping down tilt that can trip enemies if caught in the sweet spot, a up tilt that hits vertical above him.
His smash attacks are all used to get opponents above Phantom ganon in some way.
His side smash sees him pull back to lunge forwards, lifting his Trident in an arc upwards, which flings enemies ALMOST straight up.
Down smash is similar to ganon's, where it scoops one side, then pulls to the other, whicg has a stun attached to the second hit, allowing for a quick follow up.
Up smash sees Phantom Ganon perform a two handed thrust that also launches him up with it, allowing for immediate aerial combo starters, though whiffing this will make him vulnerable for punish.
Dash attack is a two hit move. A lunge into a backspin slam which can launch enemies upwards on the second hit but is quite slow to start up overall. Can be a great combo starter but also read fairly easily.
His Neutral air is another Trident spin, similar to his jab, only faster, and with a followup attached to it where he swings outwards if an enemy is hit by it. The first hit is once again, incredibly fast, allowing for easy control over his spheres.
Forward air is a spike at a downwards arc that can cause opponents to bounce back up for juggles at higher percents, which is where it becomes most useful.
Back air sees Phantom ganon lunge backwards with a shoulder barge with invincibility for a few frames on start up, making it a slow but safer kill confirm.
Down air sees Phantom ganon spin his Trident below him. This move can, similar to his jab, deflect projectiles and parry opponents trying to juggle him, however, whiffing this is dangerous, as this has the most endlag of all of his aerials.
Final Smash: as he lunges forwards in a straight line, any players caught by the startup will be transported to the boss room in the forest temple. Whereby the same painting can be seen 8 times. 8 Phantom ganons come charging in on horseback, and attack the opponents with a blast of magic from their Tridents, returning through the paintings as they laugh from their attack.
Up taunt is a swipe back with his Trident, whereby he can get a hit behind him
Side taunt is a maniacle laugh from the spectral fiend. This is the ONLY taunt in the game that can be performed whilst performing another action, as he can perform this whilst floating.
Down taunt shows Phantom ganon produce and crush an orb of magic in his hand before looking behind him, just to be edgy.
I would like to see Sonic and Little Mac get their own episodes, as well as Peach and Captain Falcon.
Some ideas to maybe pique your interest:
Little Mac: Maybe you could add a sweetspot to each of Mac's attacks and change the K.O Meter to a Star Meter, where if Mac can manage to perfectly dodge, Perfect Shield, or sweetspot he gets a star, with 5 stars giving all his attacks 1 frame less start/end lag, Super Armour, and other special effects, but getting hit or not missing the sweetspots even once will reset him down to his base level.
Peach: She definitely needs her Vibe Scepter powerups instead of the Toad Counter.
Captain Falcon: The Galactic Falcon Punch needs to be his Final Smash and he should have his gun used somewhere in the moveset.
Sonic: There are many ways you can improve Sonic, but one thing that needs to be done is combining Spin Dash/Charge and making his Down B the Boost (taken from the WII/PS2 version of Unleashed to make it easier) and having it refilled by racking up hits on the enemy. You could also maybe change the Up-B to Sonic Tornado, but that may not be necessary.
Edit: for am Upgrade to his recovery, Dark ascent level 3 could be a float that can move in any direction and explodes Ganon straight up if he touches an enemy while knocking them away.
he should just have a comeback mechanic tbh. after his years of suffering, he needs it and would be greatly appreciated
YES! Now THIS is what I’ve been waiting for. A couple slight modifications though, maybe make Ganondorf appear as the newest reincarnation since that’s what Nintendo did with Link, and I would keep the spear idea just with the additional gloom weapons.
I like the Warlock's Wrath idea for his specials, though I would like it as a side special. I was thinking Dead Man's Volley as his neutral special and he also did a shockwave type of move for his down special both from which are from Ocarina of Time. I like with the use of his trident as part of his remake movesets. Also like the idea of his float as his running animation just like Cloud, Sephiroth, & Sora.
I agree very much that he should use his trident next Smash, though it would be a huge loss to not have him using his sword anymore.
i love the way you sound like bill murray
Something's missing. When I think about new move ideas for Ganondorf, the first thing that comes to mind is the Zelda bossfight staple, the dead man's volley. He would fire forth a ball of dark energy, which can be reflected by opponent's attacks. When the projectile is active, the move changes to basically a bigger version of Mario's Cape, which would reflect the projectile back. Every time the projectile is reflected, it becomes faster and stronger. This would create a high-stakes ping-pong where it's just as dangerous to you as it is to your opponent!
This was my old tournament main in my time and I took him to every tournament 2006-2008 on the west coast. What you have done here is remade Ganon in your own way.
Here is what I think on the character I wrote the book on.
Ganondorf initially was not a true character added to the game. He was a clone (and continues to share a clone archetype.) -we agree'd here.
Since characters 'should' be lovingly adapted to the game and include whole complicated design structures that tie them back to their game whenever possible ... we see there was no/little funding/effort here with Ganondorf.
The fact you draw to a dynasty warriors crossover is a great move-its outside of the Captain Falcon move-set base.
Here is where we may differ. The Triforce of Power does not have to mean slow. You do not have to imagine the character as a slow/heavy completely or follow those rules in the same direction the current designers have. Thats what makes this special.
Ganondorf, his castles, his leading up flights of stairs, his villanous ascendednes (which seems directly tied to some great japanese non-fiction history), even his dramatic villian feeling do not have to be tied the way we have experienced through smash bro's OR the Hyrule Warriors.
His games have traps in them. He traps you and you get overwhelmed. That is what Ganondorfs style is and how he shows his strength in every game. The games should tell you that Ganondorfs style needs to have some level of mind-games to it outside of 'choose wrong and die' or simple two-hit combos. He traps you, then you get overwhelmed. So it would be a great style if he were simply more 'overwhelming' in closs combat and in long range a powerful force you have to stay clear of.
Slow walking pace(twilight princess), fast dash speed (windwaker ending), Energy Projectile (Link2thepast), Projectile reflect(OcorinaofTime), an air stall/float added or entire floatiness increased (Ocorina), Zwiehander+two short single-edged swords+spear(weapons/toools he's used in each game) turn invisible (Ocorina)
This guy has all sorts of speed/range attacks including short range fast attacks, long range magic attacks and hypnosis/mindcontrol attacks. He can ignore wounds that should kill him like a zombie(twilight princess) and only succums to incredible effort/punishment or divine banishment.
I could see a lot of flavor being added to this character in no non-specific way. And that is the whole giant point. I feel like the games were not a condition to meet for the OG creation of Ganonodorf. Clone. This new character you are making which is different (and I love it) still does not make me feel like the early games are being considered (poor windwaker ganny)
Having Ganons kit and meta revisited by developers just needs to be redone from the ground up. They need to pull from every game they have made and decide how it should all come together.
So far Ganondorf is stuck in the 'big man big punch' when it never has been a thing for him. His games have shown he knows how to create systems to entrap/control and completely overwhelm.
there is so much man..
he can teleport
control fire
Turn fire into animals that attack you
punch the ground so hard the ground gives away
Turn into monsters
...we aren't even discussing Demise and what that actually means for the design.
Take a look at the end of windwaker.
ruclips.net/video/bDxW1BRa_B0/видео.html&ab_channel=BossFightDatabase
See the fast approach in the cinematic? see the floatiness and overwhelming combo's/quick defenses.
All in all, I 100% agree Ganon needs a redesign. I also love your work and would rather play that than what they currently have.
That run animation for ganon that makes him look like an old man jogging was all we had for a few years and we made it through. We deserve a pizza, and 5 new ganon meta's. lol
take care~
--edit. sorry if this post didn't make a lot of sense. add.
On the surface, I like the idea of giving all his specials a tap and charge variation and then a One Winged Angel mode that makes the charge version the default, This lets him retain his heavy attacks while also giving him quicker ones that are more viable to actually hit with. But.....I don't like this implementation at all with the down special.
*For starters, replacing all the hold version with the charge version sounds great in concept, you get the powerful versions with the speed of the quick versions. But knowing intuitively how powerful and quick an attack is going to be in Smash Bros. is really important. And in some cases you might want to actually use the tap version for set ups and combos, not something Ganodnorf excels at, granted, but it's still something he can do. Upgrading his attacks so to speak actually takes away that versatility that giving him hold and tap variations provides, unless the tap variations just suck compared to the charge variations.
*More than that though it's just really weird to give him a special that is just useless when he's high on health. A character shouldn't have any special that just plain doesn't work unless you're waiting for a cool down or have already fully stocked a resource like Pikmin. I think something like that would be better if it were just straight up ripped from Sephiroth where it automatically happens after a certain amount of time/damage.
*I think the maker of the video didn't want to do that because he wanted a trade off on it with it dealing damage over time and not being able to take away the state, but that just makes it worse as a special, because if you don't value the effects of it then you have a special you're just plain never using. And what if you like the down special that replaces it ones he enters his super mode, but you can't use it without entering the mode you don't want to play as. If it's going to be a special it should be a special that can turn it on and off for selected use. Alternatively, don't make it a special and make it something that's just part of Ganondorf. He gets super strong if he survives into high %s but then starts killing himself. Not the most useful gimmick, but a unique and cool one (and if Pichu can make self damaging work, so too can Ganondorf). But this method of implementation is just the worst of all worlds.
Your Ganon sounds awesome, instant s tier haha.
I think it would be cool to add the energy beams from OoT (or "Dead Man's Volley") as the neutral b. It would be a nice ranged option to add to his kit and makes sense as he is a sorcerer. And wouldn't be so cool if you could have a volley match with your opponent? Also, I think that True Power should be a passive effect (like Go and Wing, etc.) and the down b should be what was described when down b is used with the effect (and maybe it damages him a little?). I think the malice definitely adds cool flavor!
I'm typically not one for using the trident in Ganondorf's moveset (If I recall, GanonDORF has only ever used it in Hyrule Warriors and I'd rather see Pig Ganon use it), but this moveset was actually very solid. It's missing some things that are traditionally there in suggested moveset changes, like Deadman's Volley, but I think the moveset as a whole comes together in a very viable way. Well done, Del.
Excited for Zoroark, been really looking forward to that one. Would still love to see your take on a Star Fox character like Krystal or Slippy!
im a ganon main (yes, we exist), and i like the current ganon as a slower falcon thay hits like a train, but i love this concept to death. i would love for this revamp of ganon to be in the game, ot would make him so fun to play because theres a huge amount of variation and mixup potential
honestly, i would like to see this in game. whether via mods or nintendo actually doing this i'd be fine with
Tbh, I like everything about this moveset retool except true power. I think that would work better as a comeback mechanic similar to Devil Kazuya, where it just activates at high percentages. Giving Ganondorf some sort of defensive option, such as a counter, would be nice, as would a get-off-me tool.
i would give ganondorf a projectile as that is a staple when based off his oot incarnation.
I don't think I like this one as much as the Samus remake. I'd argue that it lacks disrespect.
If Link's game plan is replicating boss fights in Zelda games, Ganon's is replicating the role as the Zelda boss. Big, slow but hard hitting. And because of this, Ganon is kind of the worst. And that is what Ganon wants you to think. Ganon appears clumsy enough that the few hits he lands on you is purely luck based off a few bad moves on your part, until he hits you with a stray Forward Smash and you're dead. Now you're scared, because he keeps countering you and he knows it so now he approaches, all the while punishing you again and again, absolutely disrespecting you in the process. And that is how Ganondorf is in Zelda. Ganondorf is the guy that made himself look just suspicious enough that two kids would go on an adventure to do all the heavy lifting and open the door to the Sacred Realm so that he can swoop in and steal the Triforce and become the King of Disrespect.
And it's for that reason I'm not a fan of certain decisions. I don't think the changes are necessarily adding enough to his punish game. I agree that moves like the Volcano Kick and Warlock Punch aren't necessary, especially considering that his Smash attacks serve those purposes even better. But replacing the Warlock Punch with a Warlock Spear isn't really doing it since I assume his Smash attacks are going to kill early. Replacing his Down Air with a dive kick, feels wrong considering that the Ganny stomp is one of his best tools because it works as a great counter and it starts combos.
Another problem is that we're still missing canon abilities. I know you didn't want the Deadman's Volley but that is a signature attack that he's had since Link to the Past. I'm also confused why his Up B wasn't changed to the Trident Teleport. While both can be powerful, they also backfire against him which is fitting for the character's design. I am glad that he has at least one move where the trident revolves around him.
Finally while I like the idea of True Power conceptually, I'm not sure if I need to see it. Part of me doesn't want it, because I think Smash has become a little too reliant on Installs as of late, so personal bias. But from what I can tell, it just seems like a conceptually worse version of One Wing. One Wing's big buff isn't necessarily to power, but to Seph's mobility, his power is only slightly increased. Ganon has even better power output but worse mobility all around. I can easily imagine situations where True Power is activated, and 90% of the cast just run away until Ganny starts taking recoil damage, and this is considering that Ganny gets a speed buff. I think it would just be better if Ganon always had access to Level 3 specials but they take longer to charge, that might lean more into the disrespect angle.
It's still an improvement, and it does sound fun to play, I just think there's a certain charm that he currently has that's missing.
I also feel that his down taunt should be him partial transforming into Ganon or having Twinrova cackle in the background or quickly appears posing besides him n teleports away
FINALLY, SOMEONE AGREES THAT GANON SHOULD WIELD HIS TRIDENT IN SMASH... FUCK YEAAAAA...
I hope you also make a Remake It for the movesets of Sonic and Wario
True Power is an amazing idea that would truly highlight ballsy players especially in tournament.
I'm gonna be honest here... He should keep the stomp dair. As much as I appreciate an overhaul of the character while trying to retain his original playstyle, that stomp is so visually satisfying and rather in character of him. If you look carefully at the dair visually, you can see him rearing up. Knees to chest before releasing a the most back-breaking and spiteful stomp known to man. It really fits his character because he's just so spiteful, he would really rather crush the weak beneath his boot before wasting the energy to use his spear.
I also feel the down special should have 2 parts at least. The install, I'm not too worried about, but it's what comes before that. As I've read in a separate comment, if used before 100%, it fails. That's it. Let's take it a step further though. Why not have it be similar to Mii Brawler's counter down special combined with Joker's Down special without Arsène, but with a twist. Using down special before 100% causes Ganon to take 5% damage per second he holds it, up to 3 seconds max. If someone were to attack during, they would get grabbed and hit with double the damage Ganon did to himself, then merely tossed away. A way to build damage toward the install if you're really close to it, plus a nice little counter thrown in so he isn't doing it for nothing. Additionally, it would suffer from staling, so he couldn't just spam it just because he's ahead in stocks. Adding the staling mechanic to it would mean that it could be a good move to use if you're one of those people that calculate staling and need a quickie to refresh your oldest move.
as a ganon main i love all of what i heard but i'd personally change his forward smash to him throwing his trident forward a bit and him lunging forward to grab it the trident would spin to hold his opponet in place so that when he lunges forward he'll hit them for big damage the the draw backs would be the trident can be reflected and the ending lag would be astronomical but other then that if Sakurai did this i'd have a blast playing as this version of ganondorf
Ganondorf: This was a great overhaul which both improves upon my least favorite moveset and introduces a new and fresh form on combat. However, it could have more changes IF YOU DON’T COUNT TOTK: have him use a sword instead of a trident, change Jab to a single slow punch, Dash Attack to an elbow charge, Side Tilt to be followed up by a horizontal sword swing and an overhead one, Down Tilt to a little dark eruption, Side Smash to a large dark magic explosion, Up Smash to just have the sword thrust into the air accompanied with dark lightning, Neutral Air to a one-handed spinning lariat, Grab to holding them by the neck, Back Throw to a effortless back toss kinda like Mewtwo’s, Up Throw to an upward trident drive, Neutral Special to the iconic Dead Man’s Volley (+ reflector when active), Side Special to a magically enhanced mighty sword slash, Up Special to a fading teleport, and Down Special to be like Cloud/Joker’s to charge while using it in his Malice form expending all that power with a demonic roar (he still periodic chip damage, but not too much and he doesn’t become lighter); he should also float while dashing and have some kind of hover (Credit to AYNB & FOBB for some of these ideas). Basically, I think his entire Smash moveset (with Brawl/4 Smash Attacks) should go to an F-Zero villain or something. [7/10]
Down special could be just its projecttle form ocarina of time, but if you charge, it turns in his hyrule warriors version.
This is a cool moveset. The one I made was just based on every battle with Ganon and Ganondorf (along with Demise).
I love what you've come up with for a potential overhaul of his kit, i would go a step further with True Power, while airborne ganondorf can float (albeit very slowly) while holding the button.
he can't attack out of it but it can cancel instantly for a follow up. floating wouldn't be possible when he's over 100% and he can only float once before landing.
I did have a question, what is true power supposed to do when not over 100%? I like the idea of showing a shadow of ganon with damaging malice around him (which would also let him float)
Replacing Volcano Kick and remaking Warlock Punch was something I would never expect, but it's a welcomed surprised
How is this something you would not expect? Those 2 moves are the worst.
Like they are so bad and have nothing to do with the character himself.
@@thebluePumpking No I thought he would keep Volcano Kick and maybe alter it a bit then replace Warlock Punch
@@marcotanooky9651 I'd say, make volcano kick his down smash.
I lost my mind with that True Power move!!! I need this to come true nooooowwww 🤣🤣🤣
Incredible ideas! I love this so much