I wish this guy was in my area - I'd hire him in a minute for his honesty, willingness to be flexible and lack of arrogance. All three criteria seem to be missing in 90% of the HVAC contractors in my area.
@@FastAffordableAirI recently switched and having issues. I am not sure what the technician did or didnt do but I am in the bay area, california. Do you know anyone my way?
For one, even the rated pressure on the r22 evaporator coils was lower than the r410 were better made than the new r410 coils, this new coils won't last not near as the r22 even matching them with a 410a units. This guy is absolutely right.
After seeing this video and the credibility of this guy I decided to replace my 4 ton r22 outside unit that died with a new 4 ton r410 unit. I am certified and do my own work, and I can say that the new system is working perfectly with no noticeable difference! Thank you fast affordable Air for being honest! I now know I can do this when necessary.
Our 30 year old carrier condenser unit has failed again. Twice this summer. First time was start capacitor and the service guy put a kick start cap/relay. Also replaced the motor start cap. Topped off the R-22 and it would freeze the house. Now the fan motor burned up so I replaced it yesterday. Compressor won't run. After several attempts it ran but the relay (not contactor) was arcing it's contacts. Going to throw another relay at it to try and get thru summer. Considering just replacing compressor with same model and reusing the R-22. Kids are heading to college. Money is tight. Great video btw.
Yours is the exact situation we see every 100 degree day in Las Vegas. Customers leverage in deeper and deeper on old unit. At $200 it seems like a no-brainer to repair. Even at $400 it makes since. The trouble with that is it is going to need more repairs. I am not a fan of reusing the R22. Once upon a time, this was our practice. Then we noticed that compressors with reused refrigerant were burning out in 15 to 36 months. The only common denominator between the ones that died and the ones that lasted longer than 3 years was the reused refrigerant. A new compressor with refrigerant might run 1600 to 2200 with new Freon. That may be a better deal than a new condenser replacement at 2300 to 3000. Only you can make that determination. If the coil is in great shape and there is no possibility of a leak, it is not the worst idea to put in a new compressor. If we have a compressor fail after a hardstart booster cap we give 100% of that cost towards a new unit in the first 12 months. Also we give 100% of the fan motor towards a new unit if the compressor fails in the first 30 days and 50% up to 90 days after that. Maybe your AC repair guys will make you some type of deal like that. Best of luck Erwin.
I was looking for a reference to add to an e-mail in order to back up my the point that it is possible to intertwine r22 systems with 410 systems. Your advertisement is spot in.. thank you...
It is not a question of will it work. It is a question about efficiency. As long as the customer knows they are not going to get all the SEER benefits you are covered. This month we installed our 500th condenser only. Customer complaints number 2 in 8 years. The reason it works is the evap coil only has to endure 50 more PSI . The liquid line has to endure 150 more PSI. Since the operating suction PSI for R22 is around 65 PSI and 410a is at 115 PSI it is not a stretch to for someone to believe a coil rated at 350 to 500 PSI will work. If the competition wants to argue against, ask them if they replace the line set since the liquid line will endure over 150 PSI more. Around here, no one does. Even those that bark about pressures do not replace line sets. They also never have problems with the line sets.
@@FastAffordableAir 107 degrees in r410a is 350 psig evaps for r22 only rated for 350 if the customer is aware that this is a potential problem then it should be no problem but a unit off at a higher temp than 107 degrees could exceed that 350 psig and let alone no insurance will touch it
Thank you! I beat out my competition 99% of the time by just replacing the outdoor unit and modify the evap via 410a TXV or mostly flowrater with zero callbacks! Thank you for the confirmation
I catch a lot of hate mail on this. I have for many years. This year there is a big shortage of indoor coils. We are seeing it already. When that happens the only option is to replace the compressor. There is definitely a shortage of compressors too. All these haters are going to see the light soon.
@@FastAffordableAir to hell with them. We provide a service and satisfy our customers the fastest and best way we can. I have been replacing outdoor units because compressor changes are more labor and other components on the unit could go bad right after. I simply replace the outdoor unit and modify the evap. Never had an issue in 41 years. What ever makes money, satisfies the customers and is done quickly! Best of luck no hate here.
The answer is yes you can install a R-410a unit and it will work. However unless you downsize the unit or install a thermal expansion valve, to better regulate refrigerant flow over a fixed orifice the 13 seer new unit will run at 10 seer. 13 seer systems have larger coils in both indoor and outdoor. Most homes units are oversized unless it's a new home that a decently knowledgeable contractor built. (That is a rare find indeed). A new unit should never be just slapped in place, a simple Manual J load calculation should be done to determine the actual size unit the home needs. Most times we see a ton oversized, if so installing an R-410a unit one ton smaller will result in a near matching coils system. If not installing a thermostatic expansion valve in place of a restrictor orifice will smooth off the rough edges of the coil mismatch. Next the idea the R-22 mineral needs to be flushed out of the system is bull and can be dismissed. There is a product called Super Change which eliminates the need to flush the piping and is 1/2 the price of flushing liquid and just about no added labor to install. My only reservation of using an old coil is the cost to replace is not really that much more, and a 20 or so year old coils is not going to last much longer and might have a very dirty coil face after that much continued use. So by the time the coil is removed for cleaning inspected for dirt accumulation it probably makes more sense to change it out. After 35 years in the HVAC field those folks who strive to save money by doing the job half baked usually spend more over time and sometimes overtime happens very quickly. My advice; if you don't have sufficient funds to do it right the first time it would be best to buy the least costly system and have a small knowledgeable company do the installation. The idea of going online or calling the most advertised company also going for $$ off coupons is how a person gets taken for a ride. Nobody is giving 0% financing nor are they providing discounts. Use your god given brain the interest is built into the price, as are rebates, and coupons are simply added to the price based on the requirement they must be presented before the estimate is given. If a contractor cannot attract business based almost entirely referrals you are making a crap shoot. Case in point I am not advertising my services on YT nor is the my name correct, I do not advertise and have not done so in 15 years. My vans are not lettered. We do not aim to sell anyone a service maintenance contract as in most cases they are waste of money, unless you are incapable of performing the most basic maintenance or have no desire to do it. Brand equipment has a very slight advantage in that if there is a problem the installer cannot or will not repair, one can complain to the manufacturer and they will take care of the issue. The second issue with non branded units is the anyone can purchase them, or the worst and least experienced fly by nights can do so. The consumers only real hope is finding a fair and knowledgeable contractor and paying his price (fair negotiation is ok). Finding such a person is not going to happen on Angie's list or reading Yelp reviews. Finding this person is done by inquiring to folks who use such contractors; Realtors, RE management companies, other folks in your area, word of mouth is best. But don't wait until you need such a person, look for them now. I recently did an install for a Realtor, she has taken to recommending me to all of her clients, who know love her for doing so, these have recommended us to all of their friends and this is how you build a very valuable customer base. We are not the cheapest, but we are the best and I am not b.s.ing about this that claim is based solely on what I see getting installed. One trick in interviewing a contractor: Do some research online sites like HVAC-Talk are helpful. Understand what you need and can afford to want. Interview the contractor if he gets mad at a technical question or has a convoluted answer, or has no answer, he's probably not the right guy.
Nice write up I sotac. Im not a pro, but have accomplished much skill in refrigeration, I recognize a system is a collection of matched parts, all replaceable. In an instance where a compressor goes bad, and one would like to use the existing coil and condenser, It sounds like one could downsizing the compressor a half ton or a ton. What replacement compressor (scroll or reciprocating) would you choose for a heat pump and then if an air conditioner. how many dollar difference? What say you, or whoever?
I'll add that I read one of the manufacturers (may have been copeland) recommended not to bother flushing the line because they found more problems with the flushes than the residual mineral oil. but look for those manufacturer instructions before deciding to do that because of your warranty on any new compressor.
@@dannythebeerman yep agree we no longer flush with pro flush or R 11 unless its an burnout / good nitrogen flush is all you need but follow maun instructions
Thanks for the information. It seems you actually know AC, which at this time seems to be a sorely missing part of most HVACR companies. Currently the old saying about dazzling them with brilliance or baffling them with BS, seems to lean more toward the BS side.
R410a 10 KW inverter split ,just out of warranty (12 months old) condenser coil split ,lost all refrigerant from leak, brazed up coil leak with silver solder. Refilled system with R22 reclaimed filtered refrigerant as emergency repair... Year later it's still running lot sweeter on R22 heating lot better, no more leaks 🤞 Just subbed 👍
I work a industrial hvac job. We have a few systems that are very old R22 evaps ill guess 40ish years old with newer 410 condensors running R22 and they work. Also a same system runni g R458 but the 410 cond has a R22 comp.
Some time ago we put together a test mutt system. It is the Frankenstein of all match ups. Part of that test included using 50% 410a and 50% r22. I was pretty sure that the unit would not work for more than a few days. It has been 4 months and the unit still working like a champ. It had a lower that desired 17 degree spit the day we fired it and it keeps it right there. It was pulling 11 amps back in April. In August it was 15. It is 30 degrees hotter so that seems okay. When It dies I will post the video documentary "The Murder of a Compressor"
It might be car related and not home ac but I'm running 60% R134a and 40% R152a (computer duster installed with a side can tap). Blows 35f degree air once it runs for about 10 minutes even on max fan speed. It will go up to 40f if the temp outside is 92f. I've charged a system with just 152a and the high side PSI dropped from 134a and temps got about 2f colder on average. The only reason they dont use it is because its flammable. But most refrigerants are in the right conditions.
I have a "Frankenstein" that I did 6 or 7 years ago. Been running fine. One of my helpers added 3Psi of 410A into a R22 by accident. I called the customer and told them I would give them $500 off a new system when it went bad or if they wanted to replace it. Stupid Goodman with an AWB air handler is still running, cooling and still has a 7amp draw. Also have a 2017 Rheem RA1424 with a RBHP air handler running fantastic on 407C. Some reason the customer wanted to try it, Who am I to say no.
Hello, you sound very honest. I hope you can give me advise on this Currently, I have R22 3 Ton it stops cooling after 30 minutes. its 11 years old, tech said compressor heats up then stops. So my question is which brands do you recommend and coolant? I have a quote for $4k Guardian 3 ton/14 seer with new evaporator coil 410a. Or American standards 3 Ton/ 14 seer with coil 410A $5800. do you recommend changing the pipes or flushing it should be good enough ? In my city of lodi,ca electric is not expensive last month usage 1184 kwh total $200 that's heavy use, in winter we use 675kwh
This guy is honest. He is not selling anything. He is giving the customer information and then letting them decide what they want to do. He is a rare exception to those in the HVAC trade. Who are mostly greedy crooks. And those are the ones negatively commenting here on this video.
The biggest issue we have had here in Las Vegas is 410a requires good airflow. Whether you use a 410a coil or an existing r22, you need airflow. The old r22 could tolerate a dirty air filter. If the condenser coils had leaves and mud all over it would still tow the load. 410a will not. 410a does not have the same temperature operating range. When it gets too cold, the compressor's high side and low side ratios get imbalanced enough to break the compressor. It gets too cold because there is not enough air flow. We lost 4 compressors this year. 3 were due to the filter having never been changed since we installed the unit. the 4th was because the guy shut all the vents except the one in his bedroom. Not enough air across the coil, the coil freezes, compressor dies.
In my case, i have a 2010, 48,000 btu's marine split unit, r22, the compressor went bad because a technitian refilled the unit with 410a. I love the idea of flushing the system, replacing the compressor only and a new dryer. The condenser coil is water cooled, made of nibral which holds 500 psi. Replacing the whole unit is a major job in the engine room and cabin. In the marine units, the compressor btu's is smaller than the unit rating, because of the water cooled condenser being more efficient than air cooled. This unit came with a 42,500 btu's compressor from the manufacturer. The question is? Since the evaporator coil is smaller for r22 than 410a, and leaving the existing capillary tubes ( They can be replaced ), should I use a smaller btu's compressor? Thank you very much, you are the only person that say it can be done. I have done this in smaller units, 16,000 btu's, and like you said, they have been working great for many years. Please let me know your opinion.
@@luissantos4619 Since I have never worked on marine acs this is what I would advise. You have very little to loose by trying. The condenser side is going to be higher pressure. For this reason you may need a higher PSI condenser coil. One that can handle 450to 600 PSI. The Evap coil is rated at greater than 350 psi. It will never get close to that number. The condenser coil is the weak link in the chain if you are doing the math. In a side note: 3 years ago I took a r410a new compressor and put it in a r22 condenser. I could not get it to work. Presures were off and unresolvable with r410a. I shelfed that test mutt until this year. I evacuated the 410a and put in a r438a charge. It worked. For how long, ????? It has been running for 3 months. It doesn't like the 120 degree weather we have been in but does ok.
I know this is an old post. I have seen restrictions in r-22 systems where the pressure exceeded 400 psi and the coil didn't budge so I agree your can run 410a pressures on an r-22 coil. Great information I'm all about saving the customer money my normal recommendation is to just give them a new compressor that saves them money as if everything else is in good condition. I also have used your method and have yet to have a call back....
I like to tune my own refrigerant too. So the TXV does get in the way. On the other side of that if the furnace has an ECM motor, smart motor, you will gain efficiency with a TXV. In the end we are splitting hairs.
Mike, There is no issue with mixing PEO and Mineral. Both are rated at similar temperatures. The viscosity is a bit different and mineral will bond better with r410a but they are not corrosive to each other. They do not mix in the system. They will stir while the compressor is running but separate when it stops. Some compressors and refrigerants recommend using both in varying quantities.
If you said it can be done.. Then you're responsible to make a "How to.." Video Sir.. 😋, I'm waitin'.. 'Couse i lived outside US.. Can't find a HVAC engineer as good as you Sir
iv'e done many exactly as he described. However I must note one thing, IF you are doing it on a heat pump, it may not work, and probably almost never. Reason being is in the winter, when the indoor evap becomes your condenser, and R22 coil cannot hold up to the 410 pressure. That is the only time I have found in Texas it will not work.
The indoor coil is not subject to the high pressures you get at the liquid line- the refrigerant boils off at the indoor coil so the pressures will be 125-150 psi and maybe go up to 350# max. I think all older R22 coils will handle that psi? Unless it is a heat pump, then forget it.
Need you in Texas! Thanks for this video! I have a 4Ton Goodman R22 and a Coil that says "Suitable for R22 and R410a" Im hoping my warranty will still be valid.
People don't understand that not everyone has 8 grand for a whole system changeout, you do what you have to do. The alternative is no a/c or buying a few window units.
That number seems retarded. You can get two ton out door units for around 900 dollars here. Not sure about the blower and install. My outdoor unit goes and I am buying the Copeland compressor for under $200 and just finding an install guy.
do it all the time as long as the air handler coils are in good condition, not a known leaking brand of coil---(no names)---but as long as it has a piston- it works great. Worst case scenario is you have to buy a new coil at some time but mine have been running over a year. I didn't want to do it- but necessity forced it- customer couldn't afford, not available due to 4th of july and no air- etc. EXCELLENT VIDEO- and obviously excellent company. thanks
Great info. Wish you had video of the items you were talking about. It's kinda why people come to youtube...To see pictures to go along with the woooords. But hey, you look great and great sales pitch at the end.
Thx for the info our ac condenser is failing at 20+ years old and here in AZ it's too hot to do without hopefully I can find someone to do this reasonably.
Better make sure that the components you are leaving behind are rated for the higher operating pressures of R410A. Also will the manufacturer warranty the compressor if their is a failure, on a pieced together system like that?
Rod, Not sure if you have done the math yet. The brunt of the added pressure is on the liquid line. The evap coil operating pressures will climb from 65 PSI to about 115 PSI. The liquid line will climb from 275 PSI to 415 PSI. In Las Vegas it is common practice for every company to reuse the existing line-set. Bet it is the same where you are at. I'm sure you agree, for even an old coil that was rated at 300 PSI, this is not a problem. For a modern style coil, less than 20-years-old, with a 500 PSI rating, it can surely handle the pressure. Since manufactures have already figured this out for us, they have and will continue to honor the warranty.
Great informative infomercial, An incredible willingness an offer, in depth knowlege share with thwe consumer, this is a great offer with a discount! I wanted to mention a mister perhaops for those super heated areas!
When I put in my R22 system, they evaporated coil was marked R22 or R410A. So if ever needed..I can install a R410A condenser without a problem, may have to change the piston though.
thats because the coil was made to withstand higher 410a pressures and initially you can go with 410a,but later to change from r22 to r410a you would have to flush the system,r22 and r410a use 2 different oils and cant be mixed as not to contaminate each other and cause an acid issue,i even use 2 different gauge sets 1 for r22 and 1 for r410a,and most likely change your line set for the higher pressure and volume needed to be efficient,so why not go with r410a to start or just go with another r22 unit if that one dies,which given proper yearly maintenance should last years
@@whiteboyfromernul Thanks you for the comment. I take exception to what you are saying . I think it is important to understand the oil does carry through the evap but not as much as you think. Mixing oils also does not cause acid in the system. Air does. Compressor Heat does. 15 years of using the same gauges for 134a, 505, 404, 438a, 407c/a, 410a and R22 tells me that cross contamination of oils and refrigerants is and always will be.
Can I take a new R410A condenser, recover unit refrigerant, recharge with R407C and connect to a existing R22 system? Flushing existing system of coarse.
@@FastAffordableAir wow never done that good to know bc so much hype in this business that's simply not true but we dont know till someone tries it & its WORKS Thanks
I bet if you hooked up and used with the 22 it would probably work fine. Not by the book but compressor could pump the lower pressure gas no problem. I have seen some new compressors that do multi refrigerant recently with way diff operating pressures.
Hey, nice video I'm from Belize I own my own company and yes your right I've been doing it here in our little Belize and trust me 100% it works!! Guarantee
Thanks for sharing. I still get hate mail saying it wont work or that I am hurting the customer. We still service the first one I did 8 years ago. 30 year old evap coil. never once had an issue. What brand do you sell down in Belize. Are your systems similar to ours?
I have read about your idea and have a technician in new orleans who will put in just the new condenser tomorrow. evaporator size for heat transfer and pressure is my concern. is the compatible evaporator change possible? does the txv valve solve evaporator problems? what temp and pressures should be set? how will the new evaporator fit in the same duct??
Great video and explanation. I have 2 Spacepak high velocity systems in my attic. One for each floor. Both R22 condensors need to be replaced. Every HVAC contractor I've spoken to wants to replace the whole system. (including all the inside equipment) Do you know anyone in the Andover MA / Boston area willing to work with me on this project. Any information would be appreciated. Thank you.
Anyone ever put a 410A compressor in as replacement for an R22? Then switch gas to say MO-99? I know that a R22 compressor won’t work for long in a 410A unit. I found one once. The high pressure bypass in the compressor releases when the pressure gets too high. But with R22 compressors getting hard to find I’d like to try a 410A compressor in a R22 condenser running MO-99.
Just watched your video. Awesome! Do you service Pahrump? I've had an R410a condenser on an R22 Evap for 9 years now. So far, so good. I did notice the current draw on the compressor does go pretty high when it's 114° out but seems to still work. Rated at 21.5 R.L.A and I've only seen it above that when the cap was going out. No response here after 11 months. I'll try calling your office.
Hello, you sound very honest. I hope you can give me advise on this Currently, I have R22 3 Ton it stops cooling after 30 minutes. its 11 years old, tech said compressor heats up then stops. So my question is which brands do you recommend and coolant? I have a quote for $4k Guardian 3 ton/14 seer with new evaporator coil 410a. Or American standards 3 Ton/ 14 seer with coil 410A $5800. do you recommend changing the pipes or flushing it should be good enough ? In my city of lodi,ca electric is not expensive last month usage 1184 kwh total $200 that's heavy use, in winter we use 675kwh
First I'm not sure you have a correct diagnoses on your unit. It may be a fan that is not starting every time. It also could be building head pressure if it has too much refrigerant. As for Brand... I sell Rheem. Mostly because they have the best warranty. They are also the smartest design you will find on the market. While other brands have no advancements in 2 decades on there single stage units, Rheem has designed a better unit all the way around. As for other brands, I can tell you that anything can go wrong with any unit. There are brands that are notorious for problems. Guardian may be one of them. If you are going to buy this brand get an extended "labor" warranty. Should cost you about $400 to $600 for a labor warranty.
Any air handler will work fine, 410a or multi. The TXV that comes with it should be fine for both 410a and r22. It should be a straight forward easy swap out depending on where it is located. Alot of air handlers in Vegas are located in the attic. It can be challenging to get the new one in.
i been doing the same thing.. most my customers are property management commercial business folk and they just want it to work. even 407c has been great and never given me problems. im using 407c in my home ac. if you mix it with r22 the low side may "hunt" a little but who cares.. and who cares about the oil.. i hate working for the residential home owners. i just dont have the personality or patience to sell high efficiency variable 2 speed 2 stage crap and explain refrigeration to someone who really wont understand or retain anything im saying. call the big boys on tv if you want a sales man to sit on your couch for and hour and blow smoke up your ass and sell you the world.
i agree with you ,,,,,i been out of it for years over 15 for me ,,,,i was considering 407c myself , untill i met a tech with many years experience in the north with 407c , he told me not to do it ,,,,too long to explain ,,,,,so i am looking into when needed if i can just buy a unit 410A change the txv or piston whatever comp oil then go with it ,,,,,,,,thank you , stay safe ,,,,
the problem is that r22 coil cant handle the 410 pressure, alot of those r22 were done 30 years ago they have soft soldier joints , putting a 410 with alot higher pressure on those joints your asking for a leak .
Hello i.need ur tech opinion now.....I am using r22 on a 410 compressor....txv is r22 ....will the compressor work....I have tried two scroll compressors on that and it over heat...could it be the effect of not matching same gas compressor needs
410 compressors run higher pressure if my memory serves me correctly. There R22 boiling point and critical temperature is not much like 410a. Is there any way for you to test 410a with that 410a compressor? 3 years ago one of my guys was out on a tune up for a r22 condenser and noticed the pressures were low on a Goodman unit. Like a lazy tech, he didn't check air temp split first. If he had he would have known that the split was 20 and the unit had been working fine for the past 3 years. He ads r22 and the split falls to 10. After an hour of playing with more or less he texts me a pictures of the gauges. I reply "it looks great" then he sends me a pic of the unit data tag. Not Great. It was an r22 condenser. Then I had him search the compressor model number. It was a 410a. Not sure how or why but that set up is still running today. My guess is the refrigerant is mostly 410a.
So now I have been told . That some guys here in NY have been using 410a condenser with 407c . They remove the 410a refrigerant . And putting in 407c . Has anyone heard of that .
If you change a 3ton R22 to 3ton R410A you don't even have to change the orifice. According to the manufacturers data sheets, they are the same size. .68 for r22, .68 for R410A
Hello. Your video is very informative. I have a 3.5 ton R-22 condenser unit whose compressor has shorted out. Could this R-22 condenser unit be replaced with a 4 ton R-410a condenser unit, and R-22 refrigerant be used? ...Or would you recommend me using another refrigerant? Also, would the orifice need to be changed? If so, what size orifice? Any other changes? Thanks.
What a sales man I'll buy two. Lol only works ok on straight cool r22 units. And always install expansion valve if you lose your efficiency. Should be sold with condenser.
I am in phoenix so you can't help me there, but maybe you can answer me a question. I have a system I am installing, a new Carrier 410a condenser, to replace an old r22 condenser. Last year I replaced the air handler with a Goodman ARUF25B14AC air handler which can do r22 or 410a and I have the orifice for the 410a. I will be replacing the line sets as well with new. I do want to at least flush the old oil out with nitrogen. Do you know where I can buy the pressurized nitrogen for this? I can only find it for R22 and 1234, but not 410a? I don't want to take the chance of residual flush in the evaporator if I us a solvent.
"flush the old oil out with nitrogen" - you don't flush oil with nitrogen, you need a special flash kit which is solvent based. There is no way for nitrogen to remove oil from the evaporator, it is not technically possible. You pressure test with nitrogen or purge while brazing 410a copper connectors. You go to Airgas
Generally yes you can , its not ideal as the R410A rated tubing is slightly thicker copper walls for the much higher pressures ,has the same OD though . Main thing the old R22 pipes must be flushed with a liquid flushing agent , mostly it's flammable stuff ...... gets rid of any acids , burn out contaminates , old mineral oil , any of this crap will kill the R410A compressor if it's left in the old pipes.
@@roughas100 Never use a liquid flush agent unless the system has gone to acid. Flush with nitrogen and pull a vacuum. FYI mixing oils. or mixing refrigerants, by it's self, will not create acid. Air in the line or other contaminants does that.
This is true if the PSIG on the evaporator coil is 450 psig. If the coil pressure plate displays 300 psig, then you shouldn't do it. Just replacing the txv won't be enough. There was reason that American Standard, Carrier, Lennox, Armstrong Air, York, Trane, Rheem and the other manufacturers labeled their evap coils to only run R-22 on evap coils with a 300psig and 410A/R-22 on coils with a pressure rating of 450psig.
calpammy if It's straight cool it will work just fine, if it has steel tube sheets, with heavy corrosion you got to change out the coil man or you're just stealing their money
One question is sir,,,,so u don't flush the lines?? Dont isolate the evaporator and flush it? So ur telling me u replace the txv or orifice and and condenser ? Thats it???
Just had a technician come out to look at a 410A system on an eleven-year-old Goodman says they coil is back bad and wants to switch it out with an aluminum a coil is that a good idea
If you pull up a piston chart for r410a and R22 you will see that the piston sizes are very close. Most 5 tons use an 88-93 for either refrigerant depending on brand. Rarely will it require a change.
@@SxSRentalVegasOffRoadTours if you use R410, how much can you put when you have A/H design for R22. I don't know what refrigerant is in the equipment. How do you determine what refrigerant is in the equipment
I would heat pump but I would straight cooling gas heat. Till this day at a school we have 12.5 ton straight cooling rheem unit on a carrier commercial airhandler with 410A txvs been cooling for 8 yrs . Two others also at other schools
No. In most cases, the Piston size is the same for 410 and R22. If it is not the exact same it is within 2. There are about 40 sizes of Pistons. If you are in an area with a widely varied temperature you can add a TXV. In Sothern Nevada we use our ACs from 75 to 118 degree F. TXVs do a lot to help efficiency at those upper-end temps.
The short answer is yes. I have no idea if it will produce cold air or for how long it will work. Remember this. 410a requires a larger expansion of the molecules to produce cold. 134a requires less If you are going to try it please post a video and let us know how it works.
I don't think it will work more efficiently. Though the pressures are much different the ratio of the high side to the low side is about the same. Additionally, r22 uses Mineral Oil while 410a uses Polly Ester Oil. If it works it will not stay working for long.
You mention home warranty...ended up here because the HVAC tech mentioned ours are mismatched (says 410a in the attic but an ancient heat pump outside) which I'm told is why it seems to be performing badly and it was American Homeshield that decided to half replace it. Was curious if that's a common thing. If I've learned anything renting this place it's that I would never waste money on a "home warranty" that seems to half-fix everything from HVAC and water-heaters to stoves and toilets. I may not be an expert on "correct" but I can recognize "wrong" (like a water shut off spraying water when you turn it off but won't fix because they only approved fixing a leaky safety valve, not a leaky shutoff too)
I has one guard warranty until last month which they were pretty good but they were no longer covering warranty so they said we can switch to their sister company which ended up being American hold shield. They said our 30 grace period would be waived also. So not even 20 days after I start my new policy with American home shield, our ac went out. I even upgraded out policy for ac covered to 5000. Well they said it was a pre-existing condition and wouldn’t cover it. I was so pissed. Now I have to replace the condenser and evaporator but it’s an r22 system. They told me that I have to covert refrigerant pressure also and that would cost about another 5k. I’m not sure what they quoted on because they said they will install an r22 system which I heard don’t exist. I don’t know what to do because one said one thing and the other said something else. I’m replacing both so not sure what I need.
Dear fast affordable air thanks for the informative video, I’m from California I’m replacing my dead 1980 something R22 unit with the a newer higher Seer 410a unit, I want to replace the coil as well, can I replace strictly the coil or do I have to get a new enclosure and coil as well, dimensions wise of the case they are roughly the same measurements new and old, let me know when you can and thanks for your help, got a few neighbors with investment properties in Vegas I’ll be sure to pass your biz info to them 😉
Since you posted this 8 months ago, I'll write a reply. Kudos' to Fast Affordable Air guy. Im not a pro but an avid do ityourselfer with refrigeration tools. I have looked into replacement coils when manufacturer has stopped producing replacement coils for their box. I was trying to replace a goodman but their new coils were taller and would have required too much fabrication, then I found an outfit in Texas selling coils my size www.sustainablecoils.com/ , they said that if you advise them the refrigerant they would provide the right size orifice. Now I ended up not needing to replace my coil, no holes or leaks. If it's a heat pump you may want to use a txv and you'll have to find the right size or setting (not knowledgeable enough) So yes, If you can find an uncased or case less coil to fit your box you can.
@@bassx101 I added the manufacturers url . you might be able to get them to change the tubing position to match your existing case and suggest a txv to match your outdoor unit.
I did that at my house working great i went with the largest evaporator 4 to 5 coil i could find and used a old 12 seer trane 4ton topped her off with 407c
My neighbor has a 4ton R22 condenser and a 4ton 410A evaporator, charged the condenser to specs and added more R22 to and 15 -20 degree transfer at the RA and SA... working fine...
Since I rarely change the metering device I'm not the guy to answer this. 10 years ago I would buy what the guy behind the counter advised. Guessing he had a chart to go off of. The few times I have had to change the metering device did not have anything to do with R22 to 410a. I have not had to change the metering device on a system to go to 410a unless it was clogged.
i look up on the maunf wed site most will tell you witch position to use I always swap metering devise ( smaller # or hole for 410 a ) bc most time there were piston coils weave done but if not they get an new 410 A TXV sized for condenser tonnage
410a ac with old r22 coil works perfectly fine with piston, actually I found the really old coil without piston works even better . I'm so sick of these contractors that are so scared to adapt and overcome because its not by the book of large distributors making tons of money. You can always give an estimate to put a matching evap coil in at a later date . Not everyone can afford a BMW but dammit there's nothing wrong with a chevette
Chevette? You had to use the Chevette for your example? Why not Corolla or Datsun or anything else where the steering wheel is at least on the centerline of the dash and the driver. :^) Your comment is spot on, I'm just having a little fun here. Have a great weekend.
I live in Houston, Tx you can try next year they are not hiring right now. But in Texas if you have a epa license and a Tx technician license you can find a job. Houston has several hundred companies. I work with a residential and light commercial company Aircon service company. I forgot which service I went thru to fill application they called me like 2 days later for interview and from that interview I when for a drug test and signed paper for a background check was hired 2 days later.
@@SoutheastTx I heard in tx you only need your epa certificate, but no license to be a tech. Only license if you want to be a contractor? But contractor also needs 4 yrs experience before you can apply. Correct? Just a technician you don't need a special license or test after epa?
@@realSamAndrew in order to get hired you need tech license and EPA that you are certified to handle refrigerants. Tdlr is the license that I have went to a trade school to get that and EPA. Texas department of licensing and regulation. This license tells companies that you are trained to do the job. After you take test the EPA certification will say what you are certified for I have the universal. This is good up to 25 ton I believe. Big commercial and industrial you need something different.
Sure. The TXV will require some fine tuning but it will work just fine. If you are not great at using super heat / sub cool you can just shoot for 20 degree split on the return to the supply. Adjust refrigerant levels accordingly. One more tip, once you get near the factory level charge, add or remove refrigerant very slowly over an hour or so. The TXV will try to find it's own level.
Fast Affordable Air I'm having some issues with a hvac tech who installed a non Adjustable TXV Evaporator Coil, his gauges showed a supperheat of 30 and a line suction temperature of 81, subcool is at 11 btw, I feel like my supperheat should be around 10-15, is having a higher supperheat make the air coming out of the air vent hotter since the evparoator is not getting enough liquid/gas? i would really appreciate any advice thank you!
Yes, you do have an issue. Assuming all are sized correctly and no issues with the compressor, my first thought is you are over charged with refrigerant. What is your high pressure? What is your ambient temp? Before I break out the clamps for the SH and SC I am looking for high pressure side of about 20 over ambient. (that is to say that I am free charging and not weighing the charge back in) If your house is 101 degrees inside and you are at 81 on suction I would say you are done and give it a few hours. Based on the numbers, I would check the following and eliminate them one by one to diagnose. 1. Is the coil the correct size? 2. Is the refrigerant high pressure more than 25 degrees over ambient? 3. Is there a reversing vale (heat pump) and is it sticking? 4. Is the piston the correct size? No way to easily check this except to pump down and take it out. If adding or removing refrigerant does not move the needle makes this a more probable suspect. If all of this is eliminated then your compressor has some blow by. Some compressors that have been allowed to run with out refrigerant will loose there seal.
Fast Affordable Air thank you for your reply, i live in az the outside temp was around 110 and indoor it was around 86. The evparoator coil and outside unit are both 5 ton. On the compressor unit it says low pressure 150 and high pressure 300 with required subcooling at 10. These are the numbers that his gauges showed Suction pressure 75.0 psi High Pressure 280.0 psi Supperheat 30.8 subcooling 10.7 Suction Line Temperature 81.1 Liquid Line Temperature 113.9 VSAT 50.3 LSAT 124.6
Your system is not building pressure. Based on the new work being done I would suspect the metering device. Change the Metering device and let me know what the new pressures are .
I always recommend the replacement of the coil furnace and condenser for efficiency and reliability. But when money is tight this restores cold air. It can do no harm to the existing coil.
I've used r410 system on a r22 evaporator coil an it get extremely cold then suddenly I started hearing this pop sound inside the evaporator coil sound like refridgerant squeezing its way then it get blocked and the compressor started to scream, I of to restart the system then it'll run again and also block again
That is sounds like air in the line that is crystallizing. What is the coil temp when you begin to hear the popping. I would evac the system, pull a vacuum to 700 mics or so and recharge weighing it in. Then balance it to the desired coil temp.
i am happy to have seen this vid ,,,,,i am retired tech for many years now i am 66 ,,,,i wanted to buy a 410A unit i figured changing the txv valve and IF i can find one that is, to a r22 txv it should work ! the reason is because i have a new jug 30lbs and about 1/2 of another still in my garage . thank you for posting i will see if can find another tech who has done it besides you and how to handle it if different from what i learned would work ,,,,,,am i thinking this correctly ? thank you stay safe sorry for the typos !
cant quite make this out r 22 is the could and line set ,,,,but here was my idea is to get a 410 A unit change the oil and of course the txv ! as this ever been tried or done yet ? was my wish LOL ,,,,
Field Piece Meter and Gauges. It will do microns and has a bluetooth bulb comapion. Best $500 ever spent. saves me a lot of time and space in the tool bag.
@@nunya___ the only way you would be able to do so is if the evaporator coil was regulated for 410 pressure and you flushed and swapped metering device. If it is an older r-22 system that has not had an evaporator change the psi will not withhold the pressure of 410 for long.
Recovering and discharging of refrigerant doesn't have anything to do with if it will work or not. If the coil is not manufactured for 410 pressure it doesn't matter and epa does not approve.
Yes, and it saves money, but not a single HVAC manufacturer will warranty their 410A condenser with an old R22 coils not replaced. Pretty much your warranty is with this one installer
Thank you for your thoughts CNT. Had a few compressor failures over the last 8 years on full split installs and condenser only units we installed. Every one of them was warrantied by the manufacture. 1. The head pressure is identical to systems with new evap coils. 2. The suction pressure is identical to systems with new evap coils. 3. Operating amps are identical to systems with new evap coils. If there is a metering problem, which is next to never, we can replace the piston or the TXV with identical parts and solve the issue. In spite of being higher psi, refrigerant psi ratios from R22 to r410a are very similar.
Its simple...You put a 410A condenser that has the scroll type compressor and charge it with a R22 drop in replacement. Been running strong for 5 years. It is incredibly efficient. The electric bill went down and the air is Ice Ice cold. Just sayin
The piping is piping. There is no R22 or R410a piping. As long as the sizing is correct and there are no butcher type unions in the copper, it should work just fine. You might want to flush the lines to get any of the old oil out but other than that, you should be good to go.
well im gonna say this . my 4 ton package unit mysteriously stopped working one day at that time i was very inecperianced an ive always been able to teach myself through tinkering around however it would come on but wouldnt cool so i didnt know there was a board for deforst so i desasembled all the wires all most the whole damn unit i drained out the r22 again didnt realize how exspensive the shit was an i cut out the condensor through time i tried different methods to cool my home using the condensor an one day i decided to go back out there an figure the damn thing out i hooked the condensor back up bought all new boards relays etc took 2 days to figure out what wires went where while doing this i also decided to add my own touch an have to blowers one leaving the house for return an one for intake to the house got it all put togeather hooked up power turned it to on an it started so i cut it off called a guy to come put r22 in it an he gets here an says wow that is some neat ass modifications we got to talking an thats when i found out about the defrost board can cause it to just make heat. but when he said i can put it in but it'll cost 1500 dollars. i said the hell you will im not paying that. an so i said what the hell its an old unit any way so i ordered r410a it took 2 30 lb cans costed me 300 bucks i bought my guages an i put that in my unit.. that was the best decision i ever made its now been 5 years an i havent had a problem sense... my house cools an heats prefectly an i have a 32x80 modluar home about 2600 square feet.. i left everything the same. i live in sc i can only imagine the cost of r22 in places like arizona..
You are my hero......everyone wants to sell me a $10k system not fix my suction leak that you can see. Not one AC guy yet has said: hey, 407C or 410a conversion!
What if the Home warranty company is only replacing the Condenser with a 410A and leaving the coil old R22. Then they will deny the claim on the work they did later? SMH
Since I made this video 5 years ago the practice of replacing 410A condenser has only, is much more widely accepted. Homewarranty companies are even doing it. I'm sure you will be fine with the warranty.
victor guerra you really should. I’m in hvac and I know when the two different gasses mix they clump up and will stop the flow of your refrigerant pipes.
Yes we have been using nitrogen to blow out the oils and r22. Then we use r410a. Then pull a vacuum as low as you can get it. We shoot for 500 microns or less but require at less than 800. R22 and r410a mixing is not the problem. Yes clear the lines but know that It is air in the lines that will destroy the compressor. I do not use or recommend R11.
Sorry, I have never worked with R32. If you mean R22 then the answer is no. 2 years ago we had a customer with 3 older systems contact us. She said that she had just had her systems serviced and recharged with Freon by another company but the house was not staying cool. We sent out a tech and who found a 6 to 8 degree temp split return to supply on each system. The amps were perfect. The head pressure was 20 over ambient (about 130) and the low pressure was at 40 on the green. This was spot on for these R22 systems. I sent out another 15 year veteran tech and he dug deeper. The coils were clean, the static pressure was good and there were no duct leaks and still, no solution. I asked the owner to send me the receipt from the other company and there is was. A charge for 14 total pounds of 410a and 3 sets of Schrader cores. We evacuated the 3 systems and recharged with R22. Got a 20 degree split. In spite of the other company's screw up, all three of those systems were working well when we went back in June of this year.
My r22 compressor went out. It was made in 2002. My evap coil is 410 and was installed 2012. The guy wants to get a 410 condenser and reuse my r22 in the system. Will this work?
Not like it should work. Good luck balancing the pressures. Why not use 410a. If you buy a 410a condenser it will come fully charged with refrigerant. May need a pound or 2 more at most.
Thanks for the comment. I went up going with someone else. He was offering a good price. I’ll never know why he was pushing to reuse my burnt r22. I think he was wanting to harvest it and use it on other jobs. He was also pushing for a 5 ton which doesn’t look like it would have paired well with my 4 ton evap. He was saying that some guys have trouble dialing in the pressures but he’s got it down. I don’t know what his deal was he’s been in the business for almost 50 years. Those compressors are pretty robust. Maybe it would have worked, but how much reduced life would i have seen? Who knows.
@@FastAffordableAir I have a 4 year old air handler thermo zone 4 tons r-22. I just replaced my condenser thermos zone 4 tons r-410a. The tech flushed out the gas and oil out of the new condenser and put the r-22 oil and 407c Freon but my house won't cool down below 77 degrees. Why is that.
@@ELCR73 Clearly he messed up. The Super Heat is off. #1 why did he get rid of the r410a? 410a compressors are for 410a. #2 if hecharged the system old school style and used the Green scale on his gauges you are low on refrigerant. 407c is not the same as R22. It does not behave the same. it has a unique boiling point and critical temperature. You should have a 20 degree temp split between the air going in the filter and the air coming out of the vents. What to do you have now? Are you able to see if the suction line is frozen? I'm betting you are a pound or so lite on refrigerant. Best way to charge a mixed matched system is to shoot for 10 degrees of supper heat as the bench mark. Let me know how it goes and what you find.
BTW Are both the coil and condenser the same BTU's. 3 ton with 3 ton, 5 ton with 5 ton. If the coil is too large you may not get the super heat you need.
some of the comments are just telling me O just spend the money and replace the indoor unit its only money well most of us ain't got 10 grand to have the indoor unit pulled out duct replaced and all the work that goes in to replacing the in door unit and you jack-em up ac guys know that but you have to justify your overhead WTF
I wish this guy was in my area - I'd hire him in a minute for his honesty, willingness to be flexible and lack of arrogance. All three criteria seem to be missing in 90% of the HVAC contractors in my area.
Hope you find someone that can help you with your AC. BTW where do you live?
@@FastAffordableAirI recently switched and having issues. I am not sure what the technician did or didnt do but I am in the bay area, california. Do you know anyone my way?
For one, even the rated pressure on the r22 evaporator coils was lower than the r410 were better made than the new r410 coils, this new coils won't last not near as the r22 even matching them with a 410a units. This guy is absolutely right.
After seeing this video and the credibility of this guy I decided to replace my 4 ton r22 outside unit that died with a new 4 ton r410 unit. I am certified and do my own work, and I can say that the new system is working perfectly with no noticeable difference! Thank you fast affordable Air for being honest! I now know I can do this when necessary.
So you didn't have to replace anything inside right?
How did you flush out the old oil?
@@grabir01 Nu-Calgon RX11 flush kit
Did you use a txv with the 410a condenser
@@Gabriel_chicken no you have to use a fixed piston
OMG this info was so helpful ive been going crazy all the companies i contacted say they cant make a r22 unit work with a new hvac system.
Thank you for this… your honesty….sharing your wisdom… going against the narrative! You saved me lots of money!!! God bless you .
Good stuff, its all about the homeowner, give them there options and explain the pros and cons let the homeowner decide what's best.
Sounds like a down to earth guy...willing to work with people. Too bad he isn't here in Texas.
I think we need at least 2 of this guy in every state. Down to earth, straight with the facts, upfront with the costs and benefits, and reasonable !
I was literally just thinking the same…smh pls move to Texas lol
Our 30 year old carrier condenser unit has failed again. Twice this summer. First time was start capacitor and the service guy put a kick start cap/relay. Also replaced the motor start cap. Topped off the R-22 and it would freeze the house. Now the fan motor burned up so I replaced it yesterday. Compressor won't run. After several attempts it ran but the relay (not contactor) was arcing it's contacts. Going to throw another relay at it to try and get thru summer. Considering just replacing compressor with same model and reusing the R-22. Kids are heading to college. Money is tight. Great video btw.
Yours is the exact situation we see every 100 degree day in Las Vegas. Customers leverage in deeper and deeper on old unit. At $200 it seems like a no-brainer to repair. Even at $400 it makes since. The trouble with that is it is going to need more repairs.
I am not a fan of reusing the R22. Once upon a time, this was our practice. Then we noticed that compressors with reused refrigerant were burning out in 15 to 36 months. The only common denominator between the ones that died and the ones that lasted longer than 3 years was the reused refrigerant.
A new compressor with refrigerant might run 1600 to 2200 with new Freon. That may be a better deal than a new condenser replacement at 2300 to 3000. Only you can make that determination. If the coil is in great shape and there is no possibility of a leak, it is not the worst idea to put in a new compressor.
If we have a compressor fail after a hardstart booster cap we give 100% of that cost towards a new unit in the first 12 months. Also we give 100% of the fan motor towards a new unit if the compressor fails in the first 30 days and 50% up to 90 days after that. Maybe your AC repair guys will make you some type of deal like that.
Best of luck Erwin.
I was looking for a reference to add to an e-mail in order to back up my the point that it is possible to intertwine r22 systems with 410 systems. Your advertisement is spot in.. thank you...
It is not a question of will it work. It is a question about efficiency. As long as the customer knows they are not going to get all the SEER benefits you are covered.
This month we installed our 500th condenser only. Customer complaints number 2 in 8 years.
The reason it works is the evap coil only has to endure 50 more PSI . The liquid line has to endure 150 more PSI. Since the operating suction PSI for R22 is around 65 PSI and 410a is at 115 PSI it is not a stretch to for someone to believe a coil rated at 350 to 500 PSI will work.
If the competition wants to argue against, ask them if they replace the line set since the liquid line will endure over 150 PSI more. Around here, no one does. Even those that bark about pressures do not replace line sets. They also never have problems with the line sets.
@@FastAffordableAir 107 degrees in r410a is 350 psig evaps for r22 only rated for 350 if the customer is aware that this is a potential problem then it should be no problem but a unit off at a higher temp than 107 degrees could exceed that 350 psig and let alone no insurance will touch it
I'm Anthony from ct been doing this for more than 20 years this guy is correct I work for the government in high rises it works
Anthony do you service units in CT?
Thank you! I beat out my competition 99% of the time by just replacing the outdoor unit and modify the evap via 410a TXV or mostly flowrater with zero callbacks! Thank you for the confirmation
I catch a lot of hate mail on this. I have for many years. This year there is a big shortage of indoor coils. We are seeing it already. When that happens the only option is to replace the compressor. There is definitely a shortage of compressors too. All these haters are going to see the light soon.
@@FastAffordableAir to hell with them. We provide a service and satisfy our customers the fastest and best way we can. I have been replacing outdoor units because compressor changes are more labor and other components on the unit could go bad right after. I simply replace the outdoor unit and modify the evap. Never had an issue in 41 years. What ever makes money, satisfies the customers and is done quickly! Best of luck no hate here.
Link for a good txv kit?
The answer is yes you can install a R-410a unit and it will work. However unless you downsize the unit or install a thermal expansion valve, to better regulate refrigerant flow over a fixed orifice the 13 seer new unit will run at 10 seer. 13 seer systems have larger coils in both indoor and outdoor. Most homes units are oversized unless it's a new home that a decently knowledgeable contractor built. (That is a rare find indeed). A new unit should never be just slapped in place, a simple Manual J load calculation should be done to determine the actual size unit the home needs. Most times we see a ton oversized, if so installing an R-410a unit one ton smaller will result in a near matching coils system. If not installing a thermostatic expansion valve in place of a restrictor orifice will smooth off the rough edges of the coil mismatch. Next the idea the R-22 mineral needs to be flushed out of the system is bull and can be dismissed. There is a product called Super Change which eliminates the need to flush the piping and is 1/2 the price of flushing liquid and just about no added labor to install.
My only reservation of using an old coil is the cost to replace is not really that much more, and a 20 or so year old coils is not going to last much longer and might have a very dirty coil face after that much continued use. So by the time the coil is removed for cleaning inspected for dirt accumulation it probably makes more sense to change it out.
After 35 years in the HVAC field those folks who strive to save money by doing the job half baked usually spend more over time and sometimes overtime happens very quickly. My advice; if you don't have sufficient funds to do it right the first time it would be best to buy the least costly system and have a small knowledgeable company do the installation. The idea of going online or calling the most advertised company also going for $$ off coupons is how a person gets taken for a ride. Nobody is giving 0% financing nor are they providing discounts. Use your god given brain the interest is built into the price, as are rebates, and coupons are simply added to the price based on the requirement they must be presented before the estimate is given. If a contractor cannot attract business based almost entirely referrals you are making a crap shoot.
Case in point I am not advertising my services on YT nor is the my name correct, I do not advertise and have not done so in 15 years. My vans are not lettered. We do not aim to sell anyone a service maintenance contract as in most cases they are waste of money, unless you are incapable of performing the most basic maintenance or have no desire to do it.
Brand equipment has a very slight advantage in that if there is a problem the installer cannot or will not repair, one can complain to the manufacturer and they will take care of the issue.
The second issue with non branded units is the anyone can purchase them, or the worst and least experienced fly by nights can do so.
The consumers only real hope is finding a fair and knowledgeable contractor and paying his price (fair negotiation is ok). Finding such a person is not going to happen on Angie's list or reading Yelp reviews. Finding this person is done by inquiring to folks who use such contractors; Realtors, RE management companies, other folks in your area, word of mouth is best. But don't wait until you need such a person, look for them now. I recently did an install for a Realtor, she has taken to recommending me to all of her clients, who know love her for doing so, these have recommended us to all of their friends and this is how you build a very valuable customer base. We are not the cheapest, but we are the best and I am not b.s.ing about this that claim is based solely on what I see getting installed.
One trick in interviewing a contractor: Do some research online sites like HVAC-Talk are helpful. Understand what you need and can afford to want. Interview the contractor if he gets mad at a technical question or has a convoluted answer, or has no answer, he's probably not the right guy.
How would i know what size orifice ill need? If i was to do conversion r22 to r410a condenser?i got a 2.5 ton unit,not sure on seer
Nice write up I sotac. Im not a pro, but have accomplished much skill in refrigeration, I recognize a system is a collection of matched parts, all replaceable. In an instance where a compressor goes bad, and one would like to use the existing coil and condenser, It sounds like one could downsizing the compressor a half ton or a ton. What replacement compressor (scroll or reciprocating) would you choose for a heat pump and then if an air conditioner. how many dollar difference? What say you, or whoever?
I'll add that I read one of the manufacturers (may have been copeland) recommended not to bother flushing the line because they found more problems with the flushes than the residual mineral oil. but look for those manufacturer instructions before deciding to do that because of your warranty on any new compressor.
@@dannythebeerman yep agree we no longer flush with pro flush or R 11 unless its an burnout / good nitrogen flush is all you need but follow maun instructions
Thanks for the information. It seems you actually know AC, which at this time seems to be a sorely missing part of most HVACR companies. Currently the old saying about dazzling them with brilliance or baffling them with BS, seems to lean more toward the BS side.
R410a 10 KW inverter split ,just out of warranty (12 months old) condenser coil split ,lost all refrigerant from leak, brazed up coil leak with silver solder.
Refilled system with R22 reclaimed filtered refrigerant as emergency repair...
Year later it's still running lot sweeter on R22 heating lot better, no more leaks 🤞
Just subbed 👍
I work a industrial hvac job. We have a few systems that are very old R22 evaps ill guess 40ish years old with newer 410 condensors running R22 and they work. Also a same system runni g R458 but the 410 cond has a R22 comp.
Some time ago we put together a test mutt system. It is the Frankenstein of all match ups. Part of that test included using 50% 410a and 50% r22. I was pretty sure that the unit would not work for more than a few days. It has been 4 months and the unit still working like a champ. It had a lower that desired 17 degree spit the day we fired it and it keeps it right there. It was pulling 11 amps back in April. In August it was 15. It is 30 degrees hotter so that seems okay. When It dies I will post the video documentary "The Murder of a Compressor"
It might be car related and not home ac but I'm running 60% R134a and 40% R152a (computer duster installed with a side can tap). Blows 35f degree air once it runs for about 10 minutes even on max fan speed. It will go up to 40f if the temp outside is 92f. I've charged a system with just 152a and the high side PSI dropped from 134a and temps got about 2f colder on average. The only reason they dont use it is because its flammable. But most refrigerants are in the right conditions.
I have a "Frankenstein" that I did 6 or 7 years ago.
Been running fine. One of my helpers added 3Psi of 410A into a R22 by accident. I called the customer and told them I would give them $500 off a new system when it went bad or if they wanted to replace it.
Stupid Goodman with an AWB air handler is still running, cooling and still has a 7amp draw.
Also have a 2017 Rheem RA1424 with a RBHP air handler running fantastic on 407C. Some reason the customer wanted to try it, Who am I to say no.
Hello, you sound very honest. I hope you can give me advise on this
Currently, I have R22 3 Ton it stops cooling after 30 minutes. its 11 years old, tech said compressor heats up then stops.
So my question is which brands do you recommend and coolant? I have a quote for $4k Guardian 3 ton/14 seer with new evaporator coil 410a. Or American standards 3 Ton/ 14 seer with coil 410A $5800. do you recommend changing the pipes or flushing it should be good enough
? In my city of lodi,ca electric is not expensive last month usage 1184 kwh total $200 that's heavy use, in winter we use 675kwh
@@superdan9er ok
@@delta80 8 j
This guy is honest. He is not selling anything. He is giving the customer information and then letting them decide what they want to do. He is a rare exception to those in the HVAC trade. Who are mostly greedy crooks. And those are the ones negatively commenting here on this video.
The biggest issue we have had here in Las Vegas is 410a requires good airflow. Whether you use a 410a coil or an existing r22, you need airflow. The old r22 could tolerate a dirty air filter. If the condenser coils had leaves and mud all over it would still tow the load. 410a will not. 410a does not have the same temperature operating range. When it gets too cold, the compressor's high side and low side ratios get imbalanced enough to break the compressor. It gets too cold because there is not enough air flow. We lost 4 compressors this year. 3 were due to the filter having never been changed since we installed the unit. the 4th was because the guy shut all the vents except the one in his bedroom. Not enough air across the coil, the coil freezes, compressor dies.
I'm guessing in this case, the compressor dies due to "liquid slugging"?
In my case, i have a 2010, 48,000 btu's marine split unit, r22, the compressor went bad because a technitian refilled the unit with 410a. I love the idea of flushing the system, replacing the compressor only and a new dryer. The condenser coil is water cooled, made of nibral which holds 500 psi. Replacing the whole unit is a major job in the engine room and cabin. In the marine units, the compressor btu's is smaller than the unit rating, because of the water cooled condenser being more efficient than air cooled. This unit came with a 42,500 btu's compressor from the manufacturer. The question is? Since the evaporator coil is smaller for r22 than 410a, and leaving the existing capillary tubes ( They can be replaced ), should I use a smaller btu's compressor? Thank you very much, you are the only person that say it can be done. I have done this in smaller units, 16,000 btu's, and like you said, they have been working great for many years. Please let me know your opinion.
@@luissantos4619 Since I have never worked on marine acs this is what I would advise. You have very little to loose by trying. The condenser side is going to be higher pressure. For this reason you may need a higher PSI condenser coil. One that can handle 450to 600 PSI. The Evap coil is rated at greater than 350 psi. It will never get close to that number. The condenser coil is the weak link in the chain if you are doing the math.
In a side note: 3 years ago I took a r410a new compressor and put it in a r22 condenser. I could not get it to work. Presures were off and unresolvable with r410a. I shelfed that test mutt until this year. I evacuated the 410a and put in a r438a charge. It worked. For how long, ????? It has been running for 3 months. It doesn't like the 120 degree weather we have been in but does ok.
Thanks for the honest valuable information you have provided.
I know this is an old post. I have seen restrictions in r-22 systems where the pressure exceeded 400 psi and the coil didn't budge so I agree your can run 410a pressures on an r-22 coil. Great information I'm all about saving the customer money my normal recommendation is to just give them a new compressor that saves them money as if everything else is in good condition. I also have used your method and have yet to have a call back....
Thank you for the comment E.
I've been doing it for many years, it works fine on fixed orifices, I prefer fixed orifices.
wayne krisell don't mix oils
I like to tune my own refrigerant too. So the TXV does get in the way. On the other side of that if the furnace has an ECM motor, smart motor, you will gain efficiency with a TXV. In the end we are splitting hairs.
Mike, There is no issue with mixing PEO and Mineral. Both are rated at similar temperatures. The viscosity is a bit different and mineral will bond better with r410a but they are not corrosive to each other. They do not mix in the system. They will stir while the compressor is running but separate when it stops. Some compressors and refrigerants recommend using both in varying quantities.
Love this video..it was excactly what i was looking for..thanks
If you said it can be done.. Then you're responsible to make a "How to.." Video Sir.. 😋, I'm waitin'.. 'Couse i lived outside US.. Can't find a HVAC engineer as good as you Sir
iv'e done many exactly as he described. However I must note one thing, IF you are doing it on a heat pump, it may not work, and probably almost never. Reason being is in the winter, when the indoor evap becomes your condenser, and R22 coil cannot hold up to the 410 pressure. That is the only time I have found in Texas it will not work.
I have done it on dozens of r22 to 410a heatpumps with no issues whatsoever never had leaks on evap in heat mode
The indoor coil is not subject to the high pressures you get at the liquid line- the refrigerant boils off at the indoor coil so the pressures will be 125-150 psi and maybe go up to 350# max. I think all older R22 coils will handle that psi? Unless it is a heat pump, then forget it.
Need you in Texas! Thanks for this video! I have a 4Ton Goodman R22 and a Coil that says "Suitable for R22 and R410a" Im hoping my warranty will still be valid.
we have been doing this and more here in Kenya .mostly changing the compressor and txv
People don't understand that not everyone has 8 grand for a whole system changeout, you do what you have to do. The alternative is no a/c or buying a few window units.
These guys will price themselves out of the market.
If you pay 8k for a changeout you got bent over and they didn't use lube. Just saying.
That number seems retarded. You can get two ton out door units for around 900 dollars here. Not sure about the blower and install. My outdoor unit goes and I am buying the Copeland compressor for under $200 and just finding an install guy.
Polarcupcheck where did you find a Copeland Compressor for $200?
Last rime I looked, they were in the $600-$800 range.
Better pull a permit and make sure its entered into warranty
do it all the time as long as the air handler coils are in good condition, not a known leaking brand of coil---(no names)---but as long as it has a piston- it works great. Worst case scenario is you have to buy a new coil at some time but mine have been running over a year. I didn't want to do it- but necessity forced it- customer couldn't afford, not available due to 4th of july and no air- etc. EXCELLENT VIDEO- and obviously excellent company. thanks
Great info. Wish you had video of the items you were talking about. It's kinda why people come to youtube...To see pictures to go along with the woooords. But hey, you look great and great sales pitch at the end.
Thx for the info our ac condenser is failing at 20+ years old and here in AZ it's too hot to do without hopefully I can find someone to do this reasonably.
Better make sure that the components you are leaving behind are rated for the higher operating pressures of R410A. Also will the manufacturer warranty the compressor if their is a failure, on a pieced together system like that?
Rod, Not sure if you have done the math yet. The brunt of the added pressure is on the liquid line. The evap coil operating pressures will climb from 65 PSI to about 115 PSI. The liquid line will climb from 275 PSI to 415 PSI. In Las Vegas it is common practice for every company to reuse the existing line-set. Bet it is the same where you are at. I'm sure you agree, for even an old coil that was rated at 300 PSI, this is not a problem. For a modern style coil, less than 20-years-old, with a 500 PSI rating, it can surely handle the pressure. Since manufactures have already figured this out for us, they have and will continue to honor the warranty.
Great informative infomercial, An incredible willingness an offer, in depth knowlege share with thwe consumer, this is a great offer with a discount! I wanted to mention a mister perhaops for those super heated areas!
When I put in my R22 system, they evaporated coil was marked R22 or R410A. So if ever needed..I can install a R410A condenser without a problem, may have to change the piston though.
thats because the coil was made to withstand higher 410a pressures and initially you can go with 410a,but later to change from r22 to r410a you would have to flush the system,r22 and r410a use 2 different oils and cant be mixed as not to contaminate each other and cause an acid issue,i even use 2 different gauge sets 1 for r22 and 1 for r410a,and most likely change your line set for the higher pressure and volume needed to be efficient,so why not go with r410a to start or just go with another r22 unit if that one dies,which given proper yearly maintenance should last years
@@whiteboyfromernul Thanks you for the comment. I take exception to what you are saying . I think it is important to understand the oil does carry through the evap but not as much as you think. Mixing oils also does not cause acid in the system. Air does. Compressor Heat does. 15 years of using the same gauges for 134a, 505, 404, 438a, 407c/a, 410a and R22 tells me that cross contamination of oils and refrigerants is and always will be.
Can I take a new R410A condenser, recover unit refrigerant, recharge with R407C and connect to a existing R22 system? Flushing existing system of coarse.
I have never done that. I have put 410a in a r22 condenser and it is still working though not well. Only hase a 13 degree split.
@@FastAffordableAir wow never done that good to know bc so much hype in this business that's simply not true but we dont know till someone tries it & its WORKS Thanks
i always change the condenser and the TXV and just work great the only thing the 410a makes more condensate water
I bet if you hooked up and used with the 22 it would probably work fine. Not by the book but compressor could pump the lower pressure gas no problem. I have seen some new compressors that do multi refrigerant recently with way diff operating pressures.
Hey, nice video I'm from Belize I own my own company and yes your right I've been doing it here in our little Belize and trust me 100% it works!! Guarantee
Thanks for sharing. I still get hate mail saying it wont work or that I am hurting the customer. We still service the first one I did 8 years ago. 30 year old evap coil. never once had an issue.
What brand do you sell down in Belize. Are your systems similar to ours?
do you have to change the metering device to match the 410 condenser or will the r22 metering device work
I have read about your idea and have a technician in new orleans who will put in just the new condenser tomorrow. evaporator size for heat transfer and pressure is my concern. is the compatible evaporator change possible? does the txv valve solve evaporator problems? what temp and pressures should be set? how will the new evaporator fit in the same duct??
Please email me. Elementskatebourds@gmail.com
Great video and explanation. I have 2 Spacepak high velocity systems in my attic. One for each floor. Both R22 condensors need to be replaced. Every HVAC contractor I've spoken to wants to replace the whole system. (including all the inside equipment) Do you know anyone in the Andover MA / Boston area willing to work with me on this project. Any information would be appreciated. Thank you.
My change outs take 4 to 5 hours. Inside and out. And everything on it is perfectly square with everything zip tied and clean looking.
Anyone ever put a 410A compressor in as replacement for an R22? Then switch gas to say MO-99? I know that a R22 compressor won’t work for long in a 410A unit. I found one once. The high pressure bypass in the compressor releases when the pressure gets too high. But with R22 compressors getting hard to find I’d like to try a 410A compressor in a R22 condenser running MO-99.
This was informative information. Thanks.
I have a question can I use 3 ton R410a condenser 0n 4ton R 22 evaporator thank you
You will need a 3 ton metering device.
@@SxSRentalVegasOffRoadTours is3 ton piston will work or txv? and thank you so much you are the best
@@mohamedmoussa7524 either will work.
@@SxSRentalVegasOffRoadTours again thank you so much
Just watched your video. Awesome! Do you service Pahrump? I've had an R410a condenser on an R22 Evap for 9 years now. So far, so good. I did notice the current draw on the compressor does go pretty high when it's 114° out but seems to still work. Rated at 21.5 R.L.A and I've only seen it above that when the cap was going out.
No response here after 11 months. I'll try calling your office.
Hello, you sound very honest. I hope you can give me advise on this
Currently, I have R22 3 Ton it stops cooling after 30 minutes. its 11 years old, tech said compressor heats up then stops.
So my question is which brands do you recommend and coolant? I have a quote for $4k Guardian 3 ton/14 seer with new evaporator coil 410a. Or American standards 3 Ton/ 14 seer with coil 410A $5800. do you recommend changing the pipes or flushing it should be good enough
? In my city of lodi,ca electric is not expensive last month usage 1184 kwh total $200 that's heavy use, in winter we use 675kwh
First I'm not sure you have a correct diagnoses on your unit. It may be a fan that is not starting every time. It also could be building head pressure if it has too much refrigerant.
As for Brand... I sell Rheem. Mostly because they have the best warranty. They are also the smartest design you will find on the market. While other brands have no advancements in 2 decades on there single stage units, Rheem has designed a better unit all the way around.
As for other brands, I can tell you that anything can go wrong with any unit. There are brands that are notorious for problems. Guardian may be one of them. If you are going to buy this brand get an extended "labor" warranty. Should cost you about $400 to $600 for a labor warranty.
What if my condenser unit is perfectly fine but my r-22 blower unit is shot how would go by saving money and getting it replaced
Any air handler will work fine, 410a or multi. The TXV that comes with it should be fine for both 410a and r22. It should be a straight forward easy swap out depending on where it is located. Alot of air handlers in Vegas are located in the attic. It can be challenging to get the new one in.
I appreciate your honesty. Come to Phoenix.
I'm sure he will pack up and be right over😂😂😂😂
i been doing the same thing.. most my customers are property management commercial business folk and they just want it to work. even 407c has been great and never given me problems. im using 407c in my home ac. if you mix it with r22 the low side may "hunt" a little but who cares.. and who cares about the oil..
i hate working for the residential home owners. i just dont have the personality or patience to sell high efficiency variable 2 speed 2 stage crap and explain refrigeration to someone who really wont understand or retain anything im saying. call the big boys on tv if you want a sales man to sit on your couch for and hour and blow smoke up your ass and sell you the world.
i agree with you ,,,,,i been out of it for years over 15 for me ,,,,i was considering 407c myself , untill i met a tech with many years experience in the north with 407c , he told me not to do it ,,,,too long to explain ,,,,,so i am looking into when needed if i can just buy a unit 410A change the txv or piston whatever comp oil then go with it ,,,,,,,,thank you , stay safe ,,,,
the problem is that r22 coil cant handle the 410 pressure, alot of those r22 were done 30 years ago they have soft soldier joints , putting a 410 with alot higher pressure on those joints your asking for a leak .
Hello i.need ur tech opinion now.....I am using r22 on a 410 compressor....txv is r22 ....will the compressor work....I have tried two scroll compressors on that and it over heat...could it be the effect of not matching same gas compressor needs
410 compressors run higher pressure if my memory serves me correctly. There R22 boiling point and critical temperature is not much like 410a. Is there any way for you to test 410a with that 410a compressor?
3 years ago one of my guys was out on a tune up for a r22 condenser and noticed the pressures were low on a Goodman unit. Like a lazy tech, he didn't check air temp split first. If he had he would have known that the split was 20 and the unit had been working fine for the past 3 years. He ads r22 and the split falls to 10. After an hour of playing with more or less he texts me a pictures of the gauges. I reply "it looks great" then he sends me a pic of the unit data tag. Not Great. It was an r22 condenser. Then I had him search the compressor model number. It was a 410a.
Not sure how or why but that set up is still running today. My guess is the refrigerant is mostly 410a.
So now I have been told . That some guys here in NY have been using 410a condenser with 407c . They remove the 410a refrigerant . And putting in 407c . Has anyone heard of that .
If you change a 3ton R22 to 3ton R410A you don't even have to change the orifice. According to the manufacturers data sheets, they are the same size. .68 for r22, .68 for R410A
every sheet I have read the 410 requires a slightly smaller orifice...
Hello. Your video is very informative. I have a 3.5 ton R-22 condenser unit whose compressor has shorted out. Could this R-22 condenser unit be replaced with a 4 ton R-410a condenser unit, and R-22 refrigerant be used? ...Or would you recommend me using another refrigerant? Also, would the orifice need to be changed? If so, what size orifice? Any other changes? Thanks.
You would not use R22 and the orifice in the coil would be swapped out is my understanding. You will obviously need to do a line and evaporator flush.
What a sales man I'll buy two. Lol only works ok on straight cool r22 units. And always install expansion valve if you lose your efficiency. Should be sold with condenser.
I am in phoenix so you can't help me there, but maybe you can answer me a question. I have a system I am installing, a new Carrier 410a condenser, to replace an old r22 condenser. Last year I replaced the air handler with a Goodman ARUF25B14AC air handler which can do r22 or 410a and I have the orifice for the 410a.
I will be replacing the line sets as well with new. I do want to at least flush the old oil out with nitrogen. Do you know where I can buy the pressurized nitrogen for this? I can only find it for R22 and 1234, but not 410a? I don't want to take the chance of residual flush in the evaporator if I us a solvent.
"flush the old oil out with nitrogen" - you don't flush oil with nitrogen, you need a special flash kit which is solvent based. There is no way for nitrogen to remove oil from the evaporator, it is not technically possible. You pressure test with nitrogen or purge while brazing 410a copper connectors. You go to Airgas
Can I use the Old Plumbing from the R22 system on a new 410a system, Change the condenser and the air handler
Generally yes you can , its not ideal as the R410A rated tubing is slightly thicker copper walls for the much higher pressures ,has the same OD though . Main thing the old R22 pipes must be flushed with a liquid flushing agent , mostly it's flammable stuff ...... gets rid of any acids , burn out contaminates , old mineral oil , any of this crap will kill the R410A compressor if it's left in the old pipes.
@@roughas100 Never use a liquid flush agent unless the system has gone to acid. Flush with nitrogen and pull a vacuum. FYI mixing oils. or mixing refrigerants, by it's self, will not create acid. Air in the line or other contaminants does that.
whats problem R22 and R410 together use
Can you help I just put new Goodman 4 ton condensing unit now my ac is not cold like my old r22 system .
What is your suction and head pressure?
This is true if the PSIG on the evaporator coil is 450 psig. If the coil pressure plate displays 300 psig, then you shouldn't do it. Just replacing the txv won't be enough. There was reason that American Standard, Carrier, Lennox, Armstrong Air, York, Trane, Rheem and the other manufacturers labeled their evap coils to only run R-22 on evap coils with a 300psig and 410A/R-22 on coils with a pressure rating of 450psig.
calpammy if It's straight cool it will work just fine, if it has steel tube sheets, with heavy corrosion you got to change out the coil man or you're just stealing their money
Goodman made all their coils after like 1999 to work on 410a or R 22 ..
One question is sir,,,,so u don't flush the lines?? Dont isolate the evaporator and flush it? So ur telling me u replace the txv or orifice and and condenser ? Thats it???
Yes Flush the system with nitrogen. No, do not change the metering device. only about 1 in 100 needs a new metering device.
@@FastAffordableAir ,,thank you sir really appreciate it
Just had a technician come out to look at a 410A system on an eleven-year-old Goodman says they coil is back bad and wants to switch it out with an aluminum a coil is that a good idea
The aluminum coil has become the norm for many brands. As long as the size is a match it will last at least as long as the cooper.
What if it used a piston do I change the size smaller or bigger
If you pull up a piston chart for r410a and R22 you will see that the piston sizes are very close. Most 5 tons use an 88-93 for either refrigerant depending on brand. Rarely will it require a change.
@@SxSRentalVegasOffRoadTours if you use R410, how much can you put when you have A/H design for R22. I don't know what refrigerant is in the equipment. How do you determine what refrigerant is in the equipment
What about putting a R410a condenser on a R22 system and using R22 for the refrigerant instead of R410a.
The compressor will overheat, the compressor cannot handle the higher pressure of the 410a.
The question is which condenser is larger r22 or 410
I would heat pump but I would straight cooling gas heat. Till this day at a school we have 12.5 ton straight cooling rheem unit on a carrier commercial airhandler with 410A txvs been cooling for 8 yrs . Two others also at other schools
So, you don't have to change piston of the evaporator? Thanks
No. In most cases, the Piston size is the same for 410 and R22. If it is not the exact same it is within 2. There are about 40 sizes of Pistons. If you are in an area with a widely varied temperature you can add a TXV. In Sothern Nevada we use our ACs from 75 to 118 degree F. TXVs do a lot to help efficiency at those upper-end temps.
Can a 410a unit with txv and scroll accomodate r134a?
The short answer is yes. I have no idea if it will produce cold air or for how long it will work. Remember this. 410a requires a larger expansion of the molecules to produce cold. 134a requires less If you are going to try it please post a video and let us know how it works.
Fantastic video. Great job!
Doesn’t this void warranty?
If i put r22 in a new air condition will it work more efficiently?
I don't think it will work more efficiently. Though the pressures are much different the ratio of the high side to the low side is about the same. Additionally, r22 uses Mineral Oil while 410a uses Polly Ester Oil. If it works it will not stay working for long.
Nice offer and smart moves!
May you tell if the system still working good ?
Hi. Buddy.. I got a question:
You have to use the same brand txv of the coil or you can use any txv at longest match the tons of the coil?
Thanks.
Size is the only factor. The metering devices should match in Size. Brand is not an issue.
@@FastAffordableAir
Thanks so much
@@FastAffordableAir
The year of the coil don't really matter to make it work with the 410 condenser with new 410 txv?
Thanks
You mention home warranty...ended up here because the HVAC tech mentioned ours are mismatched (says 410a in the attic but an ancient heat pump outside) which I'm told is why it seems to be performing badly and it was American Homeshield that decided to half replace it. Was curious if that's a common thing. If I've learned anything renting this place it's that I would never waste money on a "home warranty" that seems to half-fix everything from HVAC and water-heaters to stoves and toilets. I may not be an expert on "correct" but I can recognize "wrong" (like a water shut off spraying water when you turn it off but won't fix because they only approved fixing a leaky safety valve, not a leaky shutoff too)
I has one guard warranty until last month which they were pretty good but they were no longer covering warranty so they said we can switch to their sister company which ended up being American hold shield. They said our 30 grace period would be waived also. So not even 20 days after I start my new policy with American home shield, our ac went out. I even upgraded out policy for ac covered to 5000. Well they said it was a pre-existing condition and wouldn’t cover it. I was so pissed. Now I have to replace the condenser and evaporator but it’s an r22 system. They told me that I have to covert refrigerant pressure also and that would cost about another 5k. I’m not sure what they quoted on because they said they will install an r22 system which I heard don’t exist. I don’t know what to do because one said one thing and the other said something else. I’m replacing both so not sure what I need.
I need to see this install
How to change orifice size
Dear fast affordable air thanks for the informative video, I’m from California I’m replacing my dead 1980 something R22 unit with the a newer higher Seer 410a unit, I want to replace the coil as well, can I replace strictly the coil or do I have to get a new enclosure and coil as well, dimensions wise of the case they are roughly the same measurements new and old, let me know when you can and thanks for your help, got a few neighbors with investment properties in Vegas I’ll be sure to pass your biz info to them 😉
is it possible for foreigners to get working visas there?
am good with ACs
Since you posted this 8 months ago, I'll write a reply. Kudos' to Fast Affordable Air guy. Im not a pro but an avid do ityourselfer with refrigeration tools. I have looked into replacement coils when manufacturer has stopped producing replacement coils for their box. I was trying to replace a goodman but their new coils were taller and would have required too much fabrication, then I found an outfit in Texas selling coils my size www.sustainablecoils.com/ , they said that if you advise them the refrigerant they would provide the right size orifice. Now I ended up not needing to replace my coil, no holes or leaks. If it's a heat pump you may want to use a txv and you'll have to find the right size or setting (not knowledgeable enough) So yes, If you can find an uncased or case less coil to fit your box you can.
@@dannythebeerman thank you
@@bassx101 I added the manufacturers url . you might be able to get them to change the tubing position to match your existing case and suggest a txv to match your outdoor unit.
Great video like it !
great info but i got 22 condencer new n my coils inside are for 410 can i charge it with 407 c freon
I did that at my house working great i went with the largest evaporator 4 to 5 coil i could find and used a old 12 seer trane 4ton topped her off with 407c
My neighbor has a 4ton R22 condenser and a 4ton 410A evaporator, charged the condenser to specs and added more R22 to and 15 -20 degree transfer at the RA and SA... working fine...
How can i know which number orifice to use to meter the correct pressure?
Since I rarely change the metering device I'm not the guy to answer this. 10 years ago I would buy what the guy behind the counter advised. Guessing he had a chart to go off of. The few times I have had to change the metering device did not have anything to do with R22 to 410a.
I have not had to change the metering device on a system to go to 410a unless it was clogged.
i look up on the maunf wed site most will tell you witch position to use I always swap metering devise ( smaller # or hole for 410 a ) bc most time there were piston coils weave done but if not they get an new 410 A TXV sized for condenser tonnage
410a ac with old r22 coil works perfectly fine with piston, actually I found the really old coil without piston works even better . I'm so sick of these contractors that are so scared to adapt and overcome because its not by the book of large distributors making tons of money. You can always give an estimate to put a matching evap coil in at a later date . Not everyone can afford a BMW but dammit there's nothing wrong with a chevette
Chevette? You had to use the Chevette for your example? Why not Corolla or Datsun or anything else where the steering wheel is at least on the centerline of the dash and the driver. :^)
Your comment is spot on, I'm just having a little fun here. Have a great weekend.
Very nice video!
Hello
to change a 410A 13 Seer to a 410A 14 Seer condenser do I need to change the metering device also??
Only if it's a different tonnage if you're installing the same ton just different seer rating you don't.
hello , you seem to be HVAC technician . can i get a job there?
I live in Houston, Tx you can try next year they are not hiring right now. But in Texas if you have a epa license and a Tx technician license you can find a job. Houston has several hundred companies. I work with a residential and light commercial company Aircon service company. I forgot which service I went thru to fill application they called me like 2 days later for interview and from that interview I when for a drug test and signed paper for a background check was hired 2 days later.
@@SoutheastTx I heard in tx you only need your epa certificate, but no license to be a tech. Only license if you want to be a contractor? But contractor also needs 4 yrs experience before you can apply. Correct? Just a technician you don't need a special license or test after epa?
@@realSamAndrew in order to get hired you need tech license and EPA that you are certified to handle refrigerants. Tdlr is the license that I have went to a trade school to get that and EPA. Texas department of licensing and regulation. This license tells companies that you are trained to do the job.
After you take test the EPA certification will say what you are certified for I have the universal. This is good up to 25 ton I believe. Big commercial and industrial you need something different.
Can you install a 410a Evaporator core with a Txv on a R22 system that will be converted to use NU-22b? basically mix matching evaporator core
Sure. The TXV will require some fine tuning but it will work just fine. If you are not great at using super heat / sub cool you can just shoot for 20 degree split on the return to the supply. Adjust refrigerant levels accordingly. One more tip, once you get near the factory level charge, add or remove refrigerant very slowly over an hour or so. The TXV will try to find it's own level.
Fast Affordable Air I'm having some issues with a hvac tech who installed a non Adjustable TXV Evaporator Coil, his gauges showed a supperheat of 30 and a line suction temperature of 81, subcool is at 11 btw, I feel like my supperheat should be around 10-15, is having a higher supperheat make the air coming out of the air vent hotter since the evparoator is not getting enough liquid/gas? i would really appreciate any advice thank you!
Yes, you do have an issue. Assuming all are sized correctly and no issues with the compressor, my first thought is you are over charged with refrigerant. What is your high pressure? What is your ambient temp? Before I break out the clamps for the SH and SC I am looking for high pressure side of about 20 over ambient. (that is to say that I am free charging and not weighing the charge back in)
If your house is 101 degrees inside and you are at 81 on suction I would say you are done and give it a few hours.
Based on the numbers, I would check the following and eliminate them one by one to diagnose.
1. Is the coil the correct size?
2. Is the refrigerant high pressure more than 25 degrees over ambient?
3. Is there a reversing vale (heat pump) and is it sticking?
4. Is the piston the correct size? No way to easily check this except to pump down and take it out. If adding or removing refrigerant does not move the needle makes this a more probable suspect.
If all of this is eliminated then your compressor has some blow by. Some compressors that have been allowed to run with out refrigerant will loose there seal.
Fast Affordable Air thank you for your reply, i live in az the outside temp was around 110 and indoor it was around 86. The evparoator coil and outside unit are both 5 ton. On the compressor unit it says low pressure 150 and high pressure 300 with required subcooling at 10. These are the numbers that his gauges showed
Suction pressure 75.0 psi
High Pressure 280.0 psi
Supperheat 30.8
subcooling 10.7
Suction Line Temperature 81.1
Liquid Line Temperature 113.9
VSAT 50.3
LSAT 124.6
Your system is not building pressure. Based on the new work being done I would suspect the metering device. Change the Metering device and let me know what the new pressures are .
Just replace both why take a chance????
I always recommend the replacement of the coil furnace and condenser for efficiency and reliability. But when money is tight this restores cold air. It can do no harm to the existing coil.
I've used r410 system on a r22 evaporator coil an it get extremely cold then suddenly I started hearing this pop sound inside the evaporator coil sound like refridgerant squeezing its way then it get blocked and the compressor started to scream, I of to restart the system then it'll run again and also block again
That is sounds like air in the line that is crystallizing. What is the coil temp when you begin to hear the popping. I would evac the system, pull a vacuum to 700 mics or so and recharge weighing it in. Then balance it to the desired coil temp.
@@FastAffordableAir problem solve, the system was overcharged.
@@skyshaq4452 Flooded evaporator? Is that what I'm getting out of this?
@@whitewigglesworth absolutely. My next question does a vacuum pump necessary?
i am happy to have seen this vid ,,,,,i am retired tech for many years now i am 66 ,,,,i wanted to buy a 410A unit i figured changing the txv valve and IF i can find one that is, to a r22 txv it should work ! the reason is because i have a new jug 30lbs and about 1/2 of another still in my garage . thank you for posting i will see if can find another tech who has done it besides you and how to handle it if different from what i learned would work ,,,,,,am i thinking this correctly ? thank you stay safe sorry for the typos !
He talking about using 410a refrigerant only thing r22 is the could and line set
@@bryansalyer5922 ?
cant quite make this out r 22 is the could and line set ,,,,but here was my idea is to get a 410 A unit change the oil and of course the txv ! as this ever been tried or done yet ? was my wish LOL ,,,,
What type of digital meter are you using?
Field Piece Meter and Gauges. It will do microns and has a bluetooth bulb comapion. Best $500 ever spent. saves me a lot of time and space in the tool bag.
Extremely reasonable.
Is that ok with the EPA regulations and codes?
No
Yes. As long as the r-22 is recovered and properly disposed of by the contractor.
@@jeremybumgardner2085 How so?
@@nunya___ the only way you would be able to do so is if the evaporator coil was regulated for 410 pressure and you flushed and swapped metering device. If it is an older r-22 system that has not had an evaporator change the psi will not withhold the pressure of 410 for long.
Recovering and discharging of refrigerant doesn't have anything to do with if it will work or not. If the coil is not manufactured for 410 pressure it doesn't matter and epa does not approve.
Anyone have a link to a good txv?
Yes, and it saves money, but not a single HVAC manufacturer will warranty their 410A condenser with an old R22 coils not replaced. Pretty much your warranty is with this one installer
Thank you for your thoughts CNT. Had a few compressor failures over the last 8 years on full split installs and condenser only units we installed. Every one of them was warrantied by the manufacture.
1. The head pressure is identical to systems with new evap coils.
2. The suction pressure is identical to systems with new evap coils.
3. Operating amps are identical to systems with new evap coils.
If there is a metering problem, which is next to never, we can replace the piston or the TXV with identical parts and solve the issue. In spite of being higher psi, refrigerant psi ratios from R22 to r410a are very similar.
Fair enough. Why are so many contractors B/S'ing me?
Its simple...You put a 410A condenser that has the scroll type compressor and charge it with a R22 drop in replacement.
Been running strong for 5 years.
It is incredibly efficient. The electric bill went down and the air is Ice Ice cold. Just sayin
Wow I like that idea. Really worked?
Hi Sir, Thanks great video, i would like to ask you, if the R22 copper piping will be also ok to be use again in R410a refrigerant, from Jerry
The piping is piping. There is no R22 or R410a piping. As long as the sizing is correct and there are no butcher type unions in the copper, it should work just fine. You might want to flush the lines to get any of the old oil out but other than that, you should be good to go.
If it’s 3 tons or bigger it want. The suction has to be bigger
well im gonna say this . my 4 ton package unit mysteriously stopped working one day at that time i was very inecperianced an ive always been able to teach myself through tinkering around however it would come on but wouldnt cool so i didnt know there was a board for deforst so i desasembled all the wires all most the whole damn unit i drained out the r22 again didnt realize how exspensive the shit was an i cut out the condensor through time i tried different methods to cool my home using the condensor an one day i decided to go back out there an figure the damn thing out i hooked the condensor back up bought all new boards relays etc took 2 days to figure out what wires went where while doing this i also decided to add my own touch an have to blowers one leaving the house for return an one for intake to the house got it all put togeather hooked up power turned it to on an it started so i cut it off called a guy to come put r22 in it an he gets here an says wow that is some neat ass modifications we got to talking an thats when i found out about the defrost board can cause it to just make heat. but when he said i can put it in but it'll cost 1500 dollars. i said the hell you will im not paying that. an so i said what the hell its an old unit any way so i ordered r410a it took 2 30 lb cans costed me 300 bucks i bought my guages an i put that in my unit.. that was the best decision i ever made its now been 5 years an i havent had a problem sense... my house cools an heats prefectly an i have a 32x80 modluar home about 2600 square feet.. i left everything the same. i live in sc i can only imagine the cost of r22 in places like arizona..
5 years and still kicking. Nice...
You are my hero......everyone wants to sell me a $10k system not fix my suction leak that you can see. Not one AC guy yet has said: hey, 407C or 410a conversion!
What if the Home warranty company is only replacing the Condenser with a 410A and leaving the coil old R22. Then they will deny the claim on the work they did later? SMH
Since I made this video 5 years ago the practice of replacing 410A condenser has only, is much more widely accepted. Homewarranty companies are even doing it. I'm sure you will be fine with the warranty.
Do you have to flush out the lines,and evaporator???
victor guerra you really should. I’m in hvac and I know when the two different gasses mix they clump up and will stop the flow of your refrigerant pipes.
Yes we have been using nitrogen to blow out the oils and r22. Then we use r410a. Then pull a vacuum as low as you can get it. We shoot for 500 microns or less but require at less than 800. R22 and r410a mixing is not the problem. Yes clear the lines but know that It is air in the lines that will destroy the compressor. I do not use or recommend R11.
Can you change R410 to R32 ??
Sorry, I have never worked with R32. If you mean R22 then the answer is no. 2 years ago we had a customer with 3 older systems contact us. She said that she had just had her systems serviced and recharged with Freon by another company but the house was not staying cool. We sent out a tech and who found a 6 to 8 degree temp split return to supply on each system.
The amps were perfect.
The head pressure was 20 over ambient (about 130) and the low pressure was at 40 on the green. This was spot on for these R22 systems.
I sent out another 15 year veteran tech and he dug deeper.
The coils were clean, the static pressure was good and there were no duct leaks and still, no solution.
I asked the owner to send me the receipt from the other company and there is was. A charge for 14 total pounds of 410a and 3 sets of Schrader cores. We evacuated the 3 systems and recharged with R22. Got a 20 degree split. In spite of the other company's screw up, all three of those systems were working well when we went back in June of this year.
@@FastAffordableAir R427a?
My r22 compressor went out. It was made in 2002. My evap coil is 410 and was installed 2012. The guy wants to get a 410 condenser and reuse my r22 in the system. Will this work?
Not like it should work. Good luck balancing the pressures. Why not use 410a. If you buy a 410a condenser it will come fully charged with refrigerant. May need a pound or 2 more at most.
Thanks for the comment. I went up going with someone else. He was offering a good price. I’ll never know why he was pushing to reuse my burnt r22. I think he was wanting to harvest it and use it on other jobs. He was also pushing for a 5 ton which doesn’t look like it would have paired well with my 4 ton evap. He was saying that some guys have trouble dialing in the pressures but he’s got it down. I don’t know what his deal was he’s been in the business for almost 50 years. Those compressors are pretty robust. Maybe it would have worked, but how much reduced life would i have seen? Who knows.
@@FastAffordableAir I have a 4 year old air handler thermo zone 4 tons r-22. I just replaced my condenser thermos zone 4 tons r-410a. The tech flushed out the gas and oil out of the new condenser and put the r-22 oil and 407c Freon but my house won't cool down below 77 degrees. Why is that.
@@ELCR73 Clearly he messed up. The Super Heat is off. #1 why did he get rid of the r410a? 410a compressors are for 410a. #2 if hecharged the system old school style and used the Green scale on his gauges you are low on refrigerant. 407c is not the same as R22. It does not behave the same. it has a unique boiling point and critical temperature.
You should have a 20 degree temp split between the air going in the filter and the air coming out of the vents. What to do you have now?
Are you able to see if the suction line is frozen? I'm betting you are a pound or so lite on refrigerant. Best way to charge a mixed matched system is to shoot for 10 degrees of supper heat as the bench mark.
Let me know how it goes and what you find.
BTW Are both the coil and condenser the same BTU's. 3 ton with 3 ton, 5 ton with 5 ton. If the coil is too large you may not get the super heat you need.
some of the comments are just telling me O just spend the money and replace the indoor unit its only money well most of us ain't got 10 grand to have the indoor unit pulled out duct replaced and all the work that goes in to replacing the in door unit and you jack-em up ac guys know that but you have to justify your overhead WTF