My partner and I have been together in a committed relationship for many years but we decided to not live together. We each have our own house on the same piece of land and see each other daily but have lots and lots of cherished solitude and time to our own. It is an arrangement we both love and can’t imagine differently. We support each other fully whenever needed but have lives that are truly our own as well, and that is very precious. What we consciously avoid in each other are the annoyance, bad moods and other boring routines that have no need to be shared.
Define like and you will find it - hell, you probably already have at least one person in your life that likes you but it doesn't fit your definition of what liking is.
So true! This was the key piece of advice a close friend gave me at my last breakup - 'for a change' she said! I was lucky enough to do so - it is entirely possible; the contrast is enormous, though the journey is still full of obstacles!
The first part is true though. We except so much from our future partners. It's like they have to fill several roles in our lives when they are just one person.
I was just saying this today. But my argument was u should have a main life partner then fill ur needs with others as needed. So not a lot of people like that but I say do what makes you happy and fuck everyone else. I agree with anything anyone does in this area as long as both sides are consensual. Cant be a friend and a sexual partner and a person to confide in and someone to be a shoulder to cry in and someone to support you and someone to entertain you and some one to...etc. I mean may e some people but personally that’s a lot of pressure on me and on them. Not everyone agrees but people shouldn’t be tied down to one person to fulfill all their needs but Also every one wants to stab me with pitch forks when I say love shouldnt be a job. Usually the people that worked so hard and sacrificed too much to have what they have they don’t want the realization that they coulda been happier. I’m just being realistic. Also I’m too realistic I’ve never been in love, been with a lot of people but no love. So wtf do I know
If you’re monogamous too and don’t feel comfortable with exploring an open relationship that’s okay too. Don’t let people pressure you to change how you want to love/be loved. That goes both ways, if a couple has their own way of loving each other by being open to new ideas, that is totally okay. You don’t need to shame anyone for being monogamous or polyamorous.
Thank you, Chloe. Personally, I am very uncomfortable with the thought of having a relationship that is polyamorous. It is not for me and I will never be comfortable with it, so I am not going to try to be. I do, however, feel pressured by the fact that open relationships are becoming more normalised nowadays, and that I should almost come to accept that I should be more tolerant of a partner that wants to have sex with other people. It is a very little thing that you've said, but it does allow me to take a big breath and not have to question myself for not being open to these ideas which are proliferating. It takes the pressure off me reading what you've said, and makes me feel normal again, so thanks.
I know i can't manage it, i know i'm jealous, i don't want to be, but if i do it i know i'll feel it, so i don't put myself in that position, maybe later i'll come to detach enough to manage it, but right now i can't, it's not good or Bad, it's just true
I've always wondered if the culprit isn't monogamy, but cohabitation. I suspect that some people have affairs just to get a breather from 'the one they're with'.
This is a big thing that's not talked enough about. Cohabitation puts a lot of stress on a relationship. In some cases it might not be worth the financial benefits.
This is really so difficult for example when sex drive doesn't match in relationship. One feels unwanted, another one can feel pressured into sex and called "dysfunctional".
Love this. And a discrepancy in sex drive seems so inevitable! How often will two people want sex with each other at the same frequency and time? How to navigate? Life's set up a crazy conundrum for many of us.
I was in a non-monogamous relationship that resulted in my partner exploring other people and eventually getting rid of me. I wanted commitment, with or without monogamy. They wanted to "flow." My ex partner is single today. I am not. They can flow by themselves forever, I don't care. I have ambition and goals in life, and a partner who is equally focused and committed to our relationship.
I needed to read that. I suspect that I am on the same trajectory, and it is is validating to hear from someone else who knew what they wanted and managed to get it. I think this will help me let go of my own ex and let her keep floating around, whilst giving me the confidence that I will find someone who wants commitment like me. Thank you for sharing.
Ahhhhh I was about to fall in that hole, but deciding on breaking off the relationship, We both wanted different things so it was easier and less painful to set everything on fire and don't look back, stay true to yourself and find someone that thinks alike.
Thanks for sharing this. I loved reading this and I have the same doubts about a modern implementation of polyamory, even though I'd myself say I am somewhat poly. The sales pitch of polyamory is that it's a neat fit to our needs for variety. But unfortunately modern reality is far more nuanced and complicated than that.
For this to happen, people would need to be sure of what they want and why, which is one of the biggest limitations we have in our society today. If that was not the case, people wouldn't be watching this channel on the first place! But it's worth a thought! :)
lots of people have 0 insight lol not everyone sits with themselves to question their life choices. some people just go with the flow on a nice quiet river. must be nice lol
@Niki Saee By that logic, it makes any decision on relationship absurd. Truth is none of us know for sure what we want and why and therefore this whole topic is silly to even think about until we figure out how to fix/heal/mature ourselves. By the same token, it means love who you want and how you want while constantly striving to question and improve oneself. Unfortunately this means what we want might change and we may hurt people. I could go on but I won't because it spirals on and on.
As Joni Mitchell said so well: “ If you want endless repetition, see a lot of different people. If you want infinite variety, stay with one. What happens when you date is you run all your best moves & tell all your best stories - &, in a way, that routine is a method for falling in love with yourself over & over” .
Astonishingly said. It resembles my own dating experience during past years so well. This is the kind of effect I feel on myself when constantly exposed to modern love liberalism ideas. You didn't get likes because people crept out.
Well said. There's some (bad) narcissism in that repetition (not loving oneself enough), and seeking the early infatuation thrill over and over to feel validated. However this is not love.
I've just ended an 18 year monogamous relationship. Most of it was good, we managed to build a great business etc because we worked as a solid loving team. The last few years together were excruciatingly difficult, because over the years we evolved into different people and suddenly we just became combative over all sorts of issues. I don't know if I'll ever have the energy for another relationship like what a monogamous arrangement requires. I'd like to have a special, intimate friend, but still live on my own.
I see a lot of comments about how bad the alternative ideas given in the video are, when actually I just think we've become so used to the monogamous relationship to ever think outside the box and we think that negotiating about non-monogamous relationships with other people is totally impossible just because they've never tried it. But it is possible, we just have to learn to communicate, be honest, and know ourselves deeply enough to be able to be in one of these alternative relationships successfully!
it can be assumed that All of the choices including monogamy Will have a downside that has to be navigated By anyone Choosing to engage in any relationship
Jealousy is a powerful emotion and the reason why there is monogamy. Children is the other reason. Multiple relationships is practice for divorce. Also relationships need work, like everything else, they are never perfect. Expecting everything to be wonderful always is unrealistic and the pathway to loneliness. Without that one stable relationship in life, you have no anchor, you are adrift.
@@CreekValleyCritters SOL is not saying monogamy is bad, they're just saying it's not the only kind of relationship out there. If monogamy works for you then great but it doesn't work for me and i'm up front with my partners from the beginning, there's no contracts, I don't have a bunch of sexual partners that I just have orgy's with, they're mature lasting friendships. Does the occasional person wish to have something more? Sure but you get that from even casual friendships it's just part of life.
@@chadatchison145 Everyone I know who has that outlook has ended up alone. And even if you are upfront with partners, the likelihood of them still being hurt is high. People want to feel special, not just one of many, just a phase to pass through.
Yeah navigating other kinds of relationships can be harmful like many comment, but monogamous standard relationships are often harmful too. Both have a lot of potential for misunderstandings and abuse of feelings. Whats needed is honesty and compassion with your relationships and you’ll get through it fine.
Hello School of Life, i once accidentally stole a book from your shop in London, i spilled my coffee on the floor while looking through it and i put the book under my arm to clean the coffee i spilled, then i forgot that i was still carrying it and i left the shop, i only realised that it was still with me 20 minutes later when i had already left, i felt so ashamed to return it i didn't want the cashier to think i stole it so i gifted it to my sister. the book was called "things never to tell children" the book cost 8 pounds which i gave to a homeless person, anyway i just wanted to say i'm sorry i guess it was a lesson in the school of life :)
Sounds good, but that doesn't cut it, particularly saying you "gifted the book to your sister and then have the price of the book to a homeless person;". You need to pay the price of the book to where you took it from.
the metaphor of "the menu of love" seems to me like love is something that is consumed. On the other hand, the way they categorize the needs of a partner reminds me of the materialistic approach of classification in western science. Even for emotions, they consider them as different needs to be fulfilled by different personalities (which seems it degrades a person to a categorized material) by giving a lot of examples of material consuming.
I agree. It’s all so clinical, moderately transactional and removed, as if you just catch Love like the flu. In reality, love is an action and in healthy relationships, a choice. I’m not here for being on anybody’s ‘menu’ for consumption ... love gives.
Its funny because what you essentially said lines up with what post modernist hate the most: sexual objectification. Yet the ideas in this video is held true by most if not all post modernist. They contradict themselves. You can’t have a “menu of love” without objectifying the person which you are trying to do this with. Thats why I believe that at the core, the only motive a message like this holds is the justification of peoples wrong desires/actions. In other words, I want to cheat on my spouses so instead of having self control and not acting on that wrong desire, i’ll sprinkle a glittery philosophy to justify it.
Thank you, this just blew my mind. A weight has been lifted off my shoulders because I couldn’t do the traditional relationship/marriage thing. I need my space and the freedom to be myself. I can’t wait until the whole world gets on board so we can all be more content.
Honestly, the key is to stop asking society (i.e. people in your life) for approval, and quietly start doing what you need to do to feel happy and fulfilled.
I tried this restrictive life for decades except for the children part, but finally realized that it wasn’t for me. I’m happily single and happily childless.
I believe that there is a reason why monogamy is the most accepted. In my opinion monogamy is the best way of making strong relationships that are capable of supporting children and having security in your life.
All long-term relationships should fit into the 'separate-spheres' category. The only way of making it work is when each party has their own separate sphere, meaning that they stay together because they want to but not because they are co-dependent on each other.
The amount of negative comments here makes me kinda sad. I'm a big fan of monogamy myself. But that doesn't mean I can't think about other concepts, talk about them with my partner, and staying curious and respectful about other approaches to relationships. And I think it's actually beautiful and important for personal growth to reflect on our own emotions and believes. It's totally fine if you say that this way of living isn't your way. But I feel like a lot of interesting questions just start at this point, like "Why do I like those kind of relationships?", "Where do my feelings of jealousy/romance/trust... come from?". And it feels like a lot of people just skip over that part of reflection, even though it just helps to understand yourself better.
people can do whatever their hearts desire as long as it doesnt hurt the other person. not everyone have kids.....but when it comes to people that have KIDS , a broken family or a family system that does not give most of their ATTENTION to nurturing and loving them by USING THEIR TIME is not something society should move forward in.
People don’t want to explore sexual orientation or gender Identity. They are afraid that they might learn something about themselves that would shake them to the very core. People are scared to learn things about them selves that they don’t know. People fear what they don’t understand.
Monogamy derives from the very notion of fatherhood. In practically all mammals, the male provides resources, time and effort into the family unit under the expectation that the offspring he is providing these essential tools for well-being are his biologically. These "restrictions" that the video touched upon have been imposed by our society centering around the nuclear family. When our ancestors lived in tribes of around 50-150 people, the well being of offspring was ensured collectively by the women of the tribe. This is obviously no longer the case, so we have adopted the monogamous romantic relationship as the cornerstone of our large societies. The natural urges mentioned are, of course, natural. This argument in favor of them, however, is an appeal to nature fallacy. What is natural is not necessarily good for the well-being of our society. I am under the impression that these urges are manifestations of the strategic pluralism and dual-mating strategies that we have evolutionarily been pressured into over thousands of years before the advent of modern societies. Thank you all for coming to my TED talk.
@@wsxedcrfv1755 Neither the video nor the original comment are arguments in favor of non-monogamous relationships as much as they are acknowledgements that these types of arrangements exist and may (or may not) prove to be better alternatives for some people. Any and all types will have their benefits and drawbacks.
This is so, so true. Not just in relationships even, but in life in general. We make decisions that dont reflect on what we want because we never really self-evaluate enough. We never get to know ourselves on a deeper level (“I mean, come on, just read it again. 'Deeper level?' Sounds deep enough for me to get lost in, I'm not touching that.”)
I’ve been living non-monogamous relationships since 2012.. It’s amazing! It’s not easy as you don’t learn how to live it in movies, friends or family, so you are on your own to study how to connect to another human being in this new way.
What is there to "do" exactly? You're not achieving anything, there are no end goals in mind. It's literally the exact opposite, you are freeing yourself from the pressure of having to keep up a single relationship. Please think about what you type before you type it.
@@sebastianelytron8450 You also have to be open to your loved one going to other people. It may be freeing for you but it's the opposite for many people. There will be jealousy, pressure to maintain multiple relationships if you choose to do that. Worries about other's falling in love with you or your partner leaving you for someone else. It's not sunshine and rainbows. The OP is right and that statement doesn't need more thinking as you put it.
@@mischahecter896 On contrary. Before you can truly give to others, you have to take responsibility of yourself. That frees up the energy to be the true you to those close to you.
My spouse and I are making this work. We are great parents to our children and friends to each other. We enjoy intimacy with each other as well and at the same time we spend time with others, usually when one of us is busy with work (we’re both professionals, she stays at home a little more). She was the one who suggested this first. She was the first one to find a “male friend” and then suggest the idea to me. She says it helps her feel excited that she can try something different while at the same time diminishing that feeling of missing out and still able to keep commitment to our family, being a good mother, wife, etc... we were only able to do this once we felt really comfortable with each other, sharing our thoughts, and being happy for one another (instead of jealous). There’s a word for that last one: compersion, the opposite of jealousy.
Delusional couples think they are going to be madly in love forever. You have to question what you're going into a relationship for in the first place. You have to look at the big picture otherwise don't go into a relationship.
Agreed with a lot of other comments. I’m in a monogamous relationship, and yes, it is very hard. There’s sexual frustration, at times boredom, sometimes power struggles, sometimes a craving to be alone. But we also build each other up. Support eachother through school. Help eachother through finance issues. Work through childhood traumas together. Sure, I could hypothetically separate love and sex and sexually explore others as could my wife, but love and sex ARE not separate. I wouldn’t only be jealous of other partners she might have, I would be fearful of her developing feelings for another person. Our love would be in constant jeopardy. And our children benifit most from two parents who are strongly engaged, successful, and working together. Idk, I think the monogamous relationship is idealized because, after all, it’s ideal.
I have to say it - if you're worried about her developing feelings for another person then it doesn't sound like you have a particularly healthy relationship in the first place. If monogamy only serves to force you together, it doesn't really serve you at all.
@@hojdog Trust is an on going thing. If your lover starts spending more and more time with someone else and less with you, it's obvious some concern can be had. Now to ask for you to just completely trust your lover to remain yours exclusively, without any doubt whatsoever, forever, is asking you to stop being human.
Theo He is talking about a hypothetical situation, not something daily. It is obvious that he would be afraid if his partner starts seeing someone else in a sexual way, i know some cases where couples try swinger stuff and the wife/husband ends up loving the swinger, obviously leaving the other person.
The statistics also show the person most likely to murder you is your spouse. Ok - so "the monogamy ideal" gives you the most optimal results - fine. But what is the point of an ideal if only 15% of the population achieve it and 85% suffer because of it? At that point we have to offer some non-ideal forms as harm mitigation. The cumulative effect will be better than offering "the ideal" alone.
Same. Sometimes they provide real helpful and insightful points of view on certain aspects in life but other times they put out really modern approaches that are completely opposite of the views I hold. I think the best thing to do is to take what you think is helpful from them and ignore the rest.
M S This is a Philosophy channel, it teaches you what happens when you’re in a monogamous romantic relationship, why most marriages end in divorce. It is not telling you what to do or how to live your life, it just tells you WHY you may feel the way you do.
@@johnhernandez6654 With all due respect, if you disregard and ignore all that stands in opposition of your own beliefs and moral standpoints, you're unlikely to ever emotionally grow as an individual. At the very least, exposing yourself to contradictory worldviews and philosophies can allow you to develop a sense of empathy for people you may have once looked down upon.
gammon dragon I never said that you shouldn’t consider their point of view. You definitely should. But if you consider somebody else’s point of view and don’t agree with it, then you should ignore it. If I believe that drinking and partying is bad, then I’m not going to take up that lifestyle. I would it’s unhealthy to not have any standards.
@@johnhernandez6654 you can learn from and appreciate people's views and lifestyle choices without taking them on yourself. Watching a video on polyamory or non-traditional relationships can still provide you with valuable insight into how other people think even if your totally happy in a monogamous partnership. To use your example, I personally don't drink but I love, respect and respect the rights of my friends that do.
This past few years. I started to think and believe that a healthy relationship consists actually a network of people. Jealousy is the enemy. I know it’s hard. But you need to know. You don’t own anyone. No one owns you. Everyone is connected because of faith and trust and truly wanting the best for the ones you love. This is based on 100% self love and respect. If you love yourself, not the stagnant self you think you are, but the ever evolving self. life is short. Be the person you wanna be. Truly listen to what your heart says. Be kind to yourself and others. Be selfish but not self centered. Be patient. Accept yourself but keep making small changes to be more mindful! Don’t say it’s easy said than done, because it’s boring to me. I know it’s easy said than done. Start practicing now!
Right on. The 'easier said than done' attitude is what is wrong in the first place. I've never seen two people who love each other so much that they want to spend the rest of their life together go "let's enter into this union for eternity, through sickness and health, come what may we will work together and support each other and do whatever it takes" only to then go "well it's easier said than done so we should no longer even try that". Why can't we take that same attitude to monogamy and apply it to other types of relationships that aren't as common instead of dismissing them and not even attempting to put in the same work and effort that you would put into a widely acceptable and popular relationship type.
This couldn’t have come at a better time in my life. I’d had this idea for an unorthodox partnership / pseudo-relationship. And one of the models you guys presented, explains it really well. Thank you so much for this video.
I just started to explore these options... but it’s not easy to stay confident in my curiosity when I am surrounded by society’s only option, and my family starts to worry about me.
Perhaps it would help to remember that even a short time ago (and unfortunately in some places even today) gay people were considered crazy even by their loved ones, and now so much of mainstream society considers that normal.
This would work in a world composed of adults (not the teenager-minded society we live in) and without the existence of STDs. But that's ideal, not real. I've had very different kinds of relationships through my life, and all of them had the same problems the "traditional" relationships have. Just multiplied by every person involved...
Daena Michelle the relationship you have doesnt have to be dictated by society. if you talk to your parter what each one can expect and you hold that promise everything is fair game
@@sdafsf I didn't say anything about that. In all my relationships it was all clear, all honest and all fairgame. But what I said in my first comment still applies.
@kshiftkometh About polygamy, let people do what makes them happy as long as they harm nobody else. If you don't like it, fine, you can live without it and have an opinion as everyone else, that doesn't mean you are right neither wrong. But you must know there is no "social contract", what do you think is right or wrong, nobody cares, neither what morals you have, you can live through them and leave everyone else in peace. There is law, and you don't have power over that. Just an opinion, just words. Agreed on your comment about STDs, so, about ignorance, it is so widespread. In the past we used to think that lack of information is what produced it. But nowadays everyone has access to info and they are still so ignorant, or even worse, like antivac, so... Let them be as pathetic as they are, as long as it doesn't affect you. And if it does, then fight them via the ways you are legally able to
STDs may be a problem in some of the life choices available, but this video doesn't narrow itself to "have sex with as many people as you like" life choices.
@kshiftkometh not only is your comment incoherent and non-sensical, it is also very much off-topic. the definition of "comments one should re-read before posting, be confused one was capable of ever typing it and immediately deleting it"
After a 30 year relationship that was not well matched; I can attest to all the difficult emotional labels I have made myself bear while being very unhappy. I assume that this monogamous relationship was my only choice and therefore there was something very wrong with me for not being happy. My situation ended up in an emotional breakdown and divorce. 4 more years later I am now realizing that I am one of the 85%. I have not given up on love but I now require a different type of love that allows me space, my own room, freedom from that one all encompassing soul mate.
A very complexe subject, that requires high level of maturity. Most of these alternatives sound like splitting: how then can one move towards a sense of self-unifying? What happens with security (a basic need) when there is a risk of yearly "tabula rasa", how can one dare to invest in attachment, time and efforts (necessary in any relationship)? We live in a strongly individualistic society, where pleasure and self-realization are glorified, idealized, but is it really satisfying on the long run? And what about children: aren’t they sacrificed on the altar of their parents’ adolescent egos? Of course, no one should stay in a relationship that is toxic. But maybe what we want from a relationship has also to do with what we are ready to give. The other is not a disposable merchandize. The "rainbow culture" does bring a voice of freedom and respect, but when blurring the boundaries is believing that all you imagine is attainable, it becomes delusional, and downright immature.
Thank you for this. I believe this is the same sentiment most people seem to have in this comment section. I was sort of afraid people were going to dogmatically accept everything he says. I understand where he comes from but he is way too idealistic and objective about topic of open relationships an neglects the detrimental issues that could come with it.
@cum cakes in my opinion,everyone is entitled to their own position. And to that end they must reap what they sow. The data simply records a snapshot of reality at any given point in time based on choices and results of those choices.
yeah but what do we consider as a strong family unit? a home with a father and a mother living together? how many of this kind of family have we seen fail at the union subject? it is not the format the family has, but the relationship it has.
@@MrLuisergiox it is possible. Many people are drug addicts that have kids and don't raise, yet you have Karen s that believe their kids are the center of the universe.
that is not true. The curve that relates number of choices to satisfaction is not a straight line. It is a messy curve that doesn't peek at 1. And where exactly it peeks depends on the domain from which you choose.
Also.. are you aware of the implications one could draw from your logic? if people are happier with only one choice.. we'll let's put them in concentration camps and have them do forced labor all day. Why? Because they have only 1 choice in profession, therefore they must be happier. It is obvious that you started your reasoning with the conclusion that monogamy is the only viable life style and then went out and looked for a theory that might support your emotions.
@@georgplaz I personally like non-monogamy but its not just about me.. a traditional monogamous marriage is obviously best for the kids and their well being.. also a satisfied human being is a myth.. people always want more no matter how much they have.. its basic human nature and nothing wrong with it.. no one is restricting anyone to do anything.. even today the choice is virtually unlimited.. but I feel we are better than our basic instincts.. its best(for self and for humanity) if we explore our sexuality as much as we want first and then find a suitable partner for the rest of our lives.. to me there is more depth and satisfaction in one meaningful relationship for a lifetime.. of course I will be bored but there are many ways to keep it interesting.. its worth it..
Do you advocate that view for all parts of life? There should be -one- choice of clothing. One type of apartment. One meal on the menu. One type of vacation. One job for everyone. People are the happiest if they have no choice about anything?
@@ianbirchfield5124 Why? For a lot of people this can save quite a bit of pain. It opens some eyes to the ideas of new relationships, all which are valid. Monogamy is fine when it works, but for others that isn't always the case.
I have never been in an exclusive monogamous relationship, and sure it takes a lot of communication, mature and self reflected people to pull it off, but it's not as hard as some might think. The biggest problem people have is jealousy, which has it's roots in the fear of beeing replaced and abandoned. But we don't have the same jealousy with friends, do we? No-one gets jealous at a friend, when they hang out with someone else, because we know they won't stop talking to us, if they occasionally go drink a beer with another buddy. Hell, we might even tag along and get to know that other person. So why don't we do the same in relationships? Because we have been conditioned to think, that we can only love, feel attracted and live our lives with one single person, while it's normal to have a group of friends. Some people are truly happy living the "standard" monogamous relationship. The other 85% could consider asking themselves, what type of relationship would suit them best. There are many options out there, go exploring!
i think my previous comment require a bit elaboration. from friendship doesnt hold so much at stake i meant the u cant depend on friend for continued support of various high valued things like emotional support, financial support, personal care when ill etc etc... i hope it clarifies what i wanted to say more
I just want someone that likes me in a honest way. And this doesn't mean being passionate, relationships built on passion only last as long as it does (usually a few months or years depending on the case), honest love is being able to fully appreciate another person, their good and bad side, understand and assist them. No one is perfect, expecting your partner to be perfect and satisfy you completely is wrong and in some sense even egotistical
These ideas are thought provoking. Sadly it requires the person to be very mature and in touch with their emotions. Even if only 15% of the people are satisfied with traditional ways of relationships, i suspect it is substantially more than people who are mature enough to experiment with these new type of relationships.
Total monogamy sounds exhausting to me tbh. My partner and I are happy being poly. We got into our relationship knowing that we both were looking for nonmonogamy, so there weren’t any surprises. We are there for each other sexually and romantically, but recognize that our attraction to other people didn’t suddenly shut off when we got together. Why would I want to hold her back from what she wants? Why would she want to hold me back from what I want? We’re both free to fall in love with another person, find pleasure in other people, and develop deep connections with whoever we want. We have clear boundaries and talk about any concerns we have. We’re secure in our love and friendship. We just happen to let other people into the picture. It’s not for everyone. But, a lot more people are in these sorts of arrangements than you’d think. And, like, it’s a lot less of a big deal than a lot of people make it out to be.
LYRIC ZOMBIE lol I’m not a dude. And, if she’s wants to dump me at some point, then that’s her decision and I’ll respect it. It’s not my job to hold her back. It’s just my job to love and support her for as long as we both find it mutually beneficial.
Hard agree. Just out curiosity, is it really that easy for you, or did you just agree with it rationally but still struggled emotionally? You make it sound so easy and obvious, but for me (and for my partner) it was very hard to get rid of all that jealousy, insecurities ("You will get dumped!!!") and all that nasty stuff.
@@Heulerado Stoic mindfulness (negative visualization, fear setting, identifying thought distortions, etc) had already primed me to be able to deal with jealousy/insecurities/possessiveness before she and I had gotten together. Non-monogamy seemed like a rational option for honoring my attractions. It's super easy for me now because I have useful tools, but I had already done a lot of work on myself. For her, on the other hand, it just all seemed to come naturally without any kind of practiced mindfulness beforehand. It just makes inherent sense to her to be open to several partners. She says she just doesn't feel romantic jealousy in a notable way. So, we had two different paths that ended up at the same place, I guess.
Seeing how romanticized monogamy is in art, movies, books and history it isn't surprising to see that a lot of people of people feel uncomfortable just by showing them an alternative option.
I don't feel comfortable because I was "just" shown an alternative option. I feel uncomfortable because of the sarcastic description of life-long monogamous relationships. Yes, I'm with the same person, yes, it is for life, and yes, I see them age. It's not bad, and there's no need to pinpoint it as if it was bad. Then they go on to say how monogamous people claim that polyamorus ones are mentally ill. We don't, lmao?
If youre still into monogamous relationships, I'm gonna have to break it to you: *it's completely fine* As a matter of fact, if anyone took this video as a means to say that monogamy sucks or something like that, they should rewatch it, since it never said it wasn't successful in the first place, in fact, it still is in many ways, but the lately modern times with technology, and new ways of communication open up for different alternatives that may have better chances of satisfying various groups of people, and I think thats for the better. I for one, had 3 monogamous romantic relationships, and ended up in multiple infidelities and a broken sense of trust and emotional secutity, as well as repressed sexual desires. In my case I took a change for a more open, but still romantic, relationship, and it's doing wonders for me in the sense that I can keep a loveable person beside me, while keeping my trust and presence active with my friends and other things I myself consider important Notice how I explained my personal experience, because I don't think almost anybody can talk over and for the needs of other people, only give chances of thinking in my opinion.
I respect your comment and thank you for being so open. I'd like to ask something, and feel free to decline to answer if you wish, as it is quite personal. So, I empathise with what you say about your experience in monogamous relationships, and I can relate to it myself. The thing is, I've ever imagined that I would be OK with your current type of relationship as an alternative, as I can't imagine ever being comfortable cuddling up to someone on the couch knowing that they were intimate with someone else not too long before. I can't imagine being able to smell another man on my intimate partner and being anything but absolutely disgusted an enraged by that. I guess my question is, is that something that bothered you or that you thought about and managed to overcome? If so, how? Thank you if you are able to take the time to respond.
@@craigr4763 Well I myself am not bothered to feel the smell (or cues outside of body aroma) of someone else in my partner, unless the person in question is someone I dislike for reasons outside of the fact that my partner was with someone else. Besides, you can always get a bath before you meet up with your bf/gf, and have a decent presence with them since I could suppose that always sensing someone was with your couple a few hours ago can be damaging on the long run It mostly depends on how you manage yourself and who's your partner. In any case, and in any kind of relationship, both sides should be open to hear concerns from their loved one, since at the end of the day theyre the one's whom you'll be talking the most on a daily basis, as well as sleeping with when no-one else is around
Edit: It should be stated that I'm not in a polyamorous relationship, but a just open one. I don't find the idea of having multiple lovers in the same level as a boyfriend/girlfriend appealing for my taste
Love the concept of Alternative Relationships. The challenge is that our society isn't set up for them. At least not for women and also people who have lower incomes. For example, it's much cheaper to live in a one-bedroom apartment/condo with a partner than by oneself. Unfortunately, incomes haven't kept up at a rate that allows a single person to afford these apartments. Now, living with family or roommates could work but then you need a bigger space. Those can even be out of reach. Add to this that women of all backgrounds make less than men...well you start to see the problem. We can and should encourage alternative relationships. At the same time, we need to work towards a more equal society where these relationships can exist with more ease.
To the people disliking, he's not forcing you to do anything or even asking anyone to do anything, he's merely offering people more options. This is literally just more choice, if you're angry at people having more choices, reevaluate your life,
I love the School of Life but this is definitely my favourite video. I've been going about this theory for ages, including having a child with my best friend and keep having my romantic relationships free to be whatever I want. People called me crazy for saying this many times. I 100% back this. Thank you, it's needed.
This movement has been a very interesting issue here in Argentina. Free love is the most important ideal since it stands for respecting and caring for each others emotions, ways of relating and sexual desires.
been in an amazing open relationship for 2.5 years now and its been great and the most understanding, sweet and caring relationship ive ever had. i wish more people gave it more thought and maybe worked on the things that make them feel so jealous in the first place, everyone needs to see themselves as lovable and worthy and have loads of different unique things about us then we would all be a bit less jealous and in the end more open about relationships like these. it would be easier for alot of people stuck in unhappy relationships if this was presented as an option instead of shunned and ridiculed.
@@letourneauvt9566 Brutal, but damn well said hahaha. I bet these people who praise open relationship are the ones doing the serial fucking... While their "willing partner" are sitting at home like clueless dupes.
This is the one video that I have so far seen from The School of Life that I would disagree with. As a member of the LGBT community myself, I can safely say that the LGBT have managed to cause increasing heartache and strain by pushing the anti-heteronormative argument and always offers up heteronormative values as the reasons for failure. Never self-critiquing. The “one menu option” might be unyielding and have high stress rates - but maybe an analysis that acknowledges that it WAS the only option to survive the cut for so long and probably did so because it had merit. In a day and age where social mores are increasingly debauched and people seem to pursue self-fulfilment through pleasure, voracious volumes of entertainment and quick hit dopamine - maybe a forethought on the types of societies that got us here in the first place. None of us would be here if our ancestors pursued lives that a significant proportion of us are now having. I certainly don’t want to drop the ball. Tweaks to the system is fine, but disregarding the “one item” on the menu sounds an awful lot like looking to skip straight to dessert. 🙄
This seems convincing but the thing is, can anyone honestly say that they won't feel jealous or ashamed or humiliated if the person they LOVE was sleeping with someone else?? and vice-versa can anyone honestly say that they love someone if they can regularly sleep with someone else knowing that your partner could feel that type of way ? That's a no no for me
Yes, but who's to say jealousy isn't just a normal feeling that we feel from time to time? Is the avoidance of jealousy a good enough reason to go through a relationship that doesn't satisfy you?
Yes, I can say that. First, loving doesn't mean owning. Second, it's possible to love more than one person at a time. Third, routine is what kills love.
@@hojdog if the relationship is not satisfying you can talk about it with your partner and find a solution or if it doesn't work you can decide to take another path and find someone else but the options presented in this video seem to not taking into account the feelings and therefore they are not applicable in real life, if you really love and care about your partner of course. In my opinion.
@@bravewanderer7646 But what if it's unsatisfying because of these very reasons? Most people who practice polyamory have done just what you said. Started a monogamous relationship, found that it wasn't satisfying, perhaps talked about it, moved onto someone else or began an alternative relationship. IMO, if you really love and care about your partner and you know they love and care about you, what do you have to worry about?
The challenges that come in a monogamous relationship are the drive behind self development. If it wasn’t for the difficulties we would never evolve as species. We’ll just live like animals
lannydragonlover We have an animalistic side to us that is true. But we also can be highly sophisticated and virtuous like angles. I am not into denying our animalistic self but taming it into the highest noblest self possible.
That’s what i always thought, why do people try to remove the standard relationship? (monogamous) It is actually a very good thing to practice because, as you said, it requires self development, it requires being less “animal” and more “brain”.
Wot angels? ;) We invented these really high standards where we think zero sum does not apply but in reallity that does not exist. If you take a harder look you can see it everywhere.
@@لمىالشريف-غ8كBeing faithful is good, as long as everyone agrees that that is what they want. If someone wants more than one partner, and the other person wants two - then they might not be compatible at all, since one of them will always feel unhappy and unfulfilled. It would be ideal if they could find partners that could accept and embrace the parts of them that are not generally accepted,. I do not know if it is possible, to be honest, but as long as it does not hurt people, I do not mind people experimenting with different kinds of love, family, and relationships.
I feel like instead of looking to change the way we love, the problem with a lot of these "standard relationships" over so much time is that people aren't finding the right person for engaging with so intensely. Doesn't everyone actually really desire to have a partner like was described in the beginning of the video as long as you truly love them and stay 100% in love?
All of these alternatives seem far to professional and mature for the emotions of any person. Surely if you tried to implement one of these with your partner they would reluctantly agree or be offended and afraid. People love each other at different times and for different reasons, and negotiating a contract with a lover seems impersonal and too rigid. Why am I writing this? Who am I fighting this for? 😂
Jarrett Connatser I was thinking the same thing! The video brings a very interesting point and raise a valid discussion, but I’m not sure if I’m not mature enough for it or if I’m already too deep in the status quo to embrace it in my life! Or maybe we as society are not mature enough! Thank you for the video!
Well being in a relationship with someone who you have mutual respect and trust for makes it easy to bring up topics that are hard. Broad City did an episode about negotiating a relationship and they had lists for their goals for the upcoming year... I think it’s a great idea. Sometimes you aren’t on the same page as your partner and that’s okay.. as long as you talk about it. “Checking in” once a year in a LTR or even once a day, week or month can show your partner that you care how they feel and that you respect them.
if open and clear communication about each others wants and needs is too mature, i don't know what to tell you. even inside monogamous relationships that's expected.
Oh my gosh, thank you so much for this video. You just gave me an incredible tool to share with all of those around me in a new town that don’t understand (and therefore don’t approve) of my domestic situation.
Man lots of people hear seem to have a negative reaction to these ideas, and some resort to insulting too. As an introvert, I can say that being around people drains a lot of me; even if it's from family and friends. For me, jist texting and seeing people a few tomes every week is okay. I work at a retail job and at the end of the day there's only a few people I like. Honestly, I think it is possible for a relationship to be more open, but that comes down to the individuals handling the relationship(s). Everyone has different needs, and that's not to say everyone should be in a open relationship. People should be more honest and open in what they want out of it.
I can really understand your feelings. Long time of my life I hated myself for not "fitting" in the traditional scheme. This is coming to an end right now and it seems other people are awakinig to their true selves, too. This IS a loveley development indeed.
Sane, can relate Also yeah, after 15 years in CS work I had to finance a year off. I'm feeling better now after about 5 months, but it took that long to recover some shred of faith in humanity.
@@jinjunliu2401 so basically everyone still needs time for themselves and focus on themselves. I like to hang out with friends and stuff, but at the end of it all I spend more time just being by myself. Even relationships, you are responsible for what you want out of it.
To all the close minded conservatives (or fake liberals/progressives) who commented: most of your concerns can apply to traditional relationships just as much or more. Relationships in general are complicated and have their pros and cons. They're all easier said than done. Different people have different predispositions and preferences. Different arrangements might work more or less depending on the people involved. Complicated, yes, but so is life.
@@galaxybounce1002 Do you mean Polyamoury? And yes I saw that, but it didn't really. It was talking about it more in the context of trying to fix monogamous relationships.
Can't understand the holier-than-thou dislikers. He's not suggesting to spend our days in brothels, just confessing we've all thought about different "partners" from time to time. Bless those who can keep a happy marriage going for years (they are winners!) but for people who can't be compatible with a longtime partner for any reason (even nonsexual) this video is telling you you are fine, normal, and will be okay.
Damn dude, with all the mental gymnastics needed to justify this terrible video. I'm surprised you haven't begun levitating after opening all those chakras.
@@EliteDebate Perhaps you should be exercising your mental gymnastics and explain to us why this video is terrible? Or is it just something you don't feel comfortable hearing?
This channel really is like a secular church, with many of the advantages you'd expect of that (not sarcasm). It's a routine exposure to thought provoking questions and philosophy - for the masses - In this aspect just like church was, but without the often limiting religious worldview. I know this is one of the goals for this channel, and i think it's really working, good job everyone.
@Mr Yellow I think the link triggered RUclips's spam-filter, coz RUclips didn't give me any notification that you'd replied with this a week ago. (just seeing it here for the first time now, by luck)
The idea that any sexual taste or proclivity should be acceptable so long as it doesn't hurt unwilling participants is a dangerous notion. Humans have many self destructive tendencies, not the least of which are sexual, and curbing them is the job of culture and society. That being said I would not outlaw those behaviors, but I would discourage them through cultural means. Yes being in a long term committed relationship is hard work, but that is what makes it rewarding.
I am only at ease only in online sweetheart but not actual personal sweetheart relationship, i love freedom , i don’t want to be manipulated and be controlled !
So happy someone is finally articulating this. I really wish we would take people at face value and understand that their sex drive, sexual orientation, sexual attraction, etc. are usually within the realm of instinctive, physical or subconscious things that they cannot control. They can withhold or very carefully conceal these needs from us, but they are still going to be there, sipping though every crack, usually in all sorts of twisted behaviour, while causing a lot of inner turmoil and division. Whether or not we're willing and able to truly face ourselves and others is for each to decide. I for one seek truth over anything because I am convinced there is a certain magic that can be achieved only when you allow space for the entirety of a person to unfold. I want people to trust that whatever they want to share with me I will be able to take. Sometimes I feel the limits of my empathy and understanding stretched in my attempt to accommodate certain aspects of peoples personality, but I always feel enriched and enlightened once I do. It's beautiful. Let's just try that more please.
@@clare2385 In my humble opinion, you can't force people to commit to a monogamous relationship if they are not convinced by it. They will always wonder what would've been otherwise, they will always feel a bit hindered and suffocated, in time even resentful. For such people it's much better to just give them freedom and let them appreciate the beauty of the relationship they have with you when they realise how rare it is to develop something like that. If you think that would be too hard for you, if that kind of freedom would give you anxiety, if it would make you feel betrayed or disrespected then I think it would be better to part ways with this person and find someone who experiences love the same way you do, someone who would appreciate your loyalty. You can see in this comment section that there are plenty of people who are happier in a monogamous relationship so it wouldn’t be that hard. It's just a matter of how you express and perceive love.
It seems to me that most people who "agree" to have an open relationship do so because they are afraid of losing their partner, who wants to be with other people. I'm not saying that it is like this for everybody, but for many people, yes. However, I agree that any kind of relationship brings pain, disappointment but also joy. Trying to sell that a monogamic relationship is the solution to our feeling lonely is stupid and disconnected with reality. Above all, we should focus our energy on getting to know ourselves instead of discussing what kind of relationship is the best!
it doesn't mean that monogamy isn't right though, it could also be that the people themselves should communicate better with eachother (something that's even more important in polyamorous relationships)
@@jinjunliu2401 50% of government approved monogamous relationships end in a court order saying monogamy has failed. People might be monogamous ... For a period of time but more often than not monogamy is just a misnomer.
@@jeremymenning56 99.99% of people still have unresolved issues. If we all were to solve those, the answer to what relationship is best would probably become clear, but alas, that's not happening anytime soon. Call me glass half empty but that's just straight up true.
Claustrophobia happens when you think about leaving but feel like it's impossible. When I'm under my blanket at night, even though my body has no free space at all, I know the blanket is easily movable so I can focus on the comfort and warmth it brings me. Being reminded that we are free to shape our relationships makes them much more enjoyable. Even when we end up choosing what happens to be the classic couple relationship.
It’s a philosophy’s take on the source of unhappiness and tackiness around the popular concept of a marriage, it’s not telling you how to live your relationship, rather than that it is showing you where the problems of a relationship lies in, which things originate the problems.
Which stance? That a SINGLE option assumed the right one for everyone is silly and that people should be able to choose what makes sense for them? You know, it's kinda amusing that THAT is seen as a controversial stance. In any other part of life that'd be seen as slam-dunk obvious.
Lord Grompulus some people can tho, and they can be shamed in this current society when they aren’t doing anything wrong but rather doing something different
Riley Gmx and thats really great, just as learning to love But knowing every single little thing about love will just make u lost If couples can do that and are happy with that im all for it
The school of life teaches us how difficult it is to love, be loved and be in a relationship. This feels like it is making it even harder in so many ways!
I disagree with separation of love & sex union point. If you go around having sex without love, just think of the mental chaos that you end up creating within. It's easier said than done. There are many loopholes here
To me, these ignore a very important truth: relationships must be earned. I agree the template for how these relationships are carried out could use closer examination and re-evaluation, but I don’t think the monogamous side is necessarily what needs to change.
I dont think the video is stating there is a problem with monogamy itself as much as how it doesnt seem to work for most people. Any kind of relationship requires work, and can produce problems within if not dealt with honestly and thoughtfully, so would any of the options proposed.
roidroid yes, but also in a sense of learning to accept the other person and putting in the years of time and even the painful arguments (as long as done in a healthy way) that build a relationship.
yop -chan yop -chan I think that the video does a great job pointing out that the cookie cutter version of what a relationship should be just doesn’t work for everyone. However, the video then goes on to describe other possibilities besides monogamy, ignoring the reality that many struggle with “rules” of relationships, but not the ones concerning monogamy. Also, the video presents options that ignore the value of commitment, something integral to relationships.
@@willemmyers217 i disagree with the fact these options are presented without the value of commitment, in fact you yourself said the main problem was how people struggle with rules within relationships rather than monogamy itself. That i agree with you, but all options presented have their own set of rules, rules which imply commitment if that kind of relationship is what you wish to pursue with someone. For exemple if you are to fall in love with someone you had a purely sexual relationship with, then the commitments wouldnt be met. But it isn't your fault either, change happens - a discussion needs to be held, whether or not you and the other party have started to feel the same toward each other. Most of the time it isn't reciprocated, most of the time it's not discussed however because of many reasons too. So yes you are right the rules of relationshipq is what i think people most struggle with and should have been mentionned in the video.
@@rodneyhigginson9528 hi Rodney. My partner and I have a committed, long term, long distance relationship. A wonderful balance of security, freedom, communication and understanding. When we can't be together we're free to be with others.
One of the obstacles in being able to accept this is the social standard dictated by religion. In particular, Christianity (or at least, that's the way it is in my country, the Philippines). It's going to take a long time to upheave the assumption of a monogamous relationship being the natural relationship upheld by "the natural order", as dictated by the religion. And even if people do stop believing that monogamy, as dictated by their religion, is natural, I think that this social norm would still exist in the back of their minds just because of how long it was ingrained into society. Easier said than done, so to speak.
It's funny how there are so many 👎and negative comments ! I truly wonder what triggers that reaction from more people than usual. It also makes me sad because some arguments I can read here were or are the same as the ones against same-sex marriage, all over again.
@@mischahecter896 that's why I wonder if those reactions are triggered because the proposed alternatives are against a norm. Just to be clear I'm not saying some arguments are directly against same-sex marriage or homophobic, but they use the same rhetoric in my ears. For example, things along the lines of "This is against men's instinctive nature", or to some extent that monogamous relationship are what "we always did". Those same arguments were used against non-heterosexual couples and, though they raise interesting questions, they are rhetorically incorrect. But fortunately since the newest comments raised are more mixed and in depth 😊.
Those of you claiming jealousy and immaturity would destroy a poly relationship... You're just telling on yourselves. You're showing everyone how closed minded jealous, and immature you yourselves are!
Agree. Someone too jealous and immature to consider the possibility of an atypical relationship likely is too jealous and immature to be very good at a "standard relationship" too.
The traditional relationship model is outdated. My Husband and I have a fantastic relationship, we encourage each other to explore and live individually fulfilling lives outside of our marriage, whether that be further study, individual travel or otherwise. We have a supportive loving relationship which includes two beautiful children. The key to our relationship is kindness and respect - always. There is no room for jealousy when you always put your primary partner first.
The thing is poly people experience jealousy just as everyone else. Mono people are jealous all the time, so are poly people. I think they just have to deal with it, because they think it's their ideal about relationships and they believe giving their partner freedom is a good thing. It doesn't have to be for everyone!
It's not that the jealousy isn't there but there's a reason why you get jealous. The hard part is to figure out why but it's worth it. Since two years I'm in an poly arrangement and I've uncovered and healed quite a few hidden traumas while dealing with jealousy and I'm thankful for it. There's no place to hide from yourself when you try out different arrangements.
I am new to poly experiences but it is a surprisingly good feeling that there’s transparency, and I don’t have to chase away someone who is already important to me, nor stop to get to know new people. But yes, you have to have a healthy relationship with yourself, express consent clearly... it is not all black and white, each situation is different.
Christelle I’m poly (been so for five years) and it’s awesome. My partner isn’t a jealous type, they ask me in-depth questions when they need something answered, we make decisions about partners together and we are a team. :) I think poly can work with or without jealousy because you have to have those same conversations even in a monogamous pairing. It’s just respecting boundaries.
I think the key is to look at your jealousy with compassion and understand why you feel that way. I, for example, noticed I am not jealous of all people. With most other partners I'm totally at peace with. When I do get jealous it's usually because I have some kind of insecurity in that area. It's a sign I don't feel proud about a certain aspect of myself that needs improving. Also, once you accept your good parts, your bad parts and realise many people find them quite endearing, jealousy doesn't show up much anymore.
Not every relationship you have needs to be romantic/sexual but could still be loving and providing. You could have a significant other, a gym buddy, a writer’s group, and a mentor. :) These are all relationships that may include love that fulfill one’s needs without the complication of sex.
I usually like your vids but I feel this one makes it sound like a relationship is a spreadsheet and people can just objectively fill it in however they want. On the one hand you’re right that many people are unsatisfied because their expectations of marriage are unrealistic, on the other hand most people can’t compartmentalise in the way you’re suggesting. Expecting a partner to do so is usually just way of abdicating the responsibility to emotionally support them. Resentment & jealousy don’t have an on/off switch, which I suspect is why monogamy will remain an enduring model for relationships... and why so many poly couples have this creepy gleam in their eye like they want to rip each other’s throats out while they’re smiling and talking about “compersion”. Don’t get me wrong, I want it to work, but usually you could cut the tension with a switchblade lol
Yes, not to mention people want ideals. This fits with the times we live in. In the fantasy where we compartmentalize, we also fantasize that we abolish problems. Problems such as sometimes having a desire for another person, a dissatisfaction with some aspect of your partner, a fear of missing out / making choices and thereby excluding other possibilities. We want it all these days, and we don't want any difficulty, any problem, any frustration. Of course all these other forms of relationships bring with them their own problems, as people will probably soon discover.
@@jackdawcaw4514 Very well said. One thing that I never see cropping up in videos discussing this topic is how none of these alternatives are actually new, and in fact very closely related to the dominating societal model, which means one can't just embrace a diverging model and expect to be given a pass by the largely monogamous society. I also get the impression that the monogamous relationship model is always presented as being unaffected by the passage of time and by the various cultures that adopted it.
I love love love this! Especially because, based on some of his lectures, I had assumed that ADB was anti-relationship alternatives. Pleasantly surprised. The comments make me LOL though. People are very threatened by the idea that monogamy doesn’t work for some - and I’d argue, most - people. My life is full of polyamorous people and their relationships all seem just as good, if not downright better than the mono relationships in my life. I think this is because poly relationships take a TON of maturity, mutual respect, and honest communication. They’re not for everyone, but I think they’re a potential antidote to codependency and partner resentment. And yes, some poly people get jealous, but people get jealous of their partners even when they’re monogamous, so I don’t find that argument particularly compelling. We should not put so many demands on one human being , it’s an arrangement that is destined to make people miserable, and I’m glad a platform as far-reaching as SOL is taking the time and consideration to acknowledge these things. Ending with an ironic anecdote: I once suggested to my older brother that he consider non-monogamy, as he has cheated on every girlfriend he has ever had. His response? “I could never do that.” I guess nonmonogamy is only ok if you’re lying about it and betraying someone in the process?
Renouf For some people it may be a religious/cultural thing...but I also think for many people it’s because they don’t want to admit that they’re also dissatisfied with monogamy. The anxiety of accountability: once you realize there’s an issue or some thing making you unhappy, then you have to rearrange your life to address it. And I think for some people non monogamy is a bridge too far. Just my take on it.
To a greater extent than we perhaps realise, when it comes to what sort of relationships we are allowed to have, our societies present us with a menu with only a single option on it: The Monogamous, Cohabiting Romantic Relationship, usually served with a Side Order of Children. To be considered remotely normal, we are meant to develop overwhelming emotional and sexual feelings for one very special person, who will then become a combination of our best friend, sole sexual partner, co-parent, business associate, therapist, travel companion, property co-manager, kindergarten teacher and soulmate - and with whom we will live exclusively in one house, in one bed, for many decades, in substantial harmony and with an active tolerance for each other’s foibles and ongoing desire for their evolving appearance, till death do us part. But what is striking, for an arrangement supposed to be entirely normal, is just how many people cannot abide by its rules. At least half flunk completely, and a substantial portion muddle along in quiet desperation. At best, only around 15% of the population admit to being totally satisfied, a thought-inducingly low figure for a menu option vigorously claiming universal validity. In our societies, those who can’t get on with Romantic Monogamous Marriage are quickly diagnosed as suffering from a variety of psychological disorders: fear of intimacy, clinginess, sexual addiction, frigidity, boundary issues, self-sabotage, childhood trauma etc. We powerfully imply that someone might be psychologically ill if they don’t want to keep having sex exclusively with the same partner, or seek to spend every other weekend apart or want to develop a close friendship elsewhere. But there might be another approach, this one drawn from the pioneering work of advocates of gay rights, namely that any taste or proclivity must by definition be acceptable and non-pathological, except in so far as it might hurt the unwilling or unconsenting. From this perspective, while many ways of life might be different to society’s presently preferred option, it cannot be right to judge, correct, amend and seek to re-educate all those attracted to them. With this in mind, the menu of love we should use starts to look very different. Aside from Romantic Monogamy, all kinds of alternative ways of living could be devised, including (to kick-start a list): The Parenting Relationship A union oriented first and foremost towards the well-being of children, where parents are free to form unions with other parties, once the welfare and security of off-spring are assured. The Separate Spheres Relationship A union which understands that no two people should ever be expected to be in total proximity night after night - and respects the role of certain kinds of privacy in contributing to emotional well-being and a robust sense of self. The Yearly Renegotiated Relationship A union which is accepted by both parties as having only a one-year assured lifespan, after which it must be re-negotiated but without any presumption that it will necessarily be so or resentment if it is not - a source of insecurity with surprisingly fruitful and aphrodisiacal side-effects. The Love-or-Sex Union A union which recognises the difficulty of fusing love and sex in one couple, and makes the possibility of dividing the two, and seeking fulfilment from alternative sources, non-tragic, unshameful and predictable. In love, we accept an absence of choice that would be intolerable in other areas of life. We consent to wearing a uniform that cannot possibly fit our varied shapes, and without daring to make even minor moves to assemble our own wardrobe. All our collective energies go into creating astonishing varieties of foods, machines and entertainments, while the entity that dominates our lives - our relationships - continue in a format more or less unchanged for the last 250 years. It would be a genuine liberation if, whenever a new couple came together, it was assumed that they almost certainly would not go along with the romantic monogamous template, and that the onus was therefore on them to discuss - up front, in good faith and without insult - the arrangements that would ideally satisfy their natures. Extra marks would be awarded for innovation and out-of-the-box schemes - while protestations of satisfaction at the standard model would raise eyebrows. Once upon a time, male offspring of the European upper classes had only two career options: to join the army or to join the church. Such narrow-mindedness was eventually dismissed as evident nonsense and eradicated, and the average citizen of a developed country now has at least 4,000 job options to choose from. We should strive for a comparable expansion of our menus of love. We are not so much bad at relationships, as unable - presently - to understand our needs without shame, to stick up politely for what makes us content, and to invent practical arrangements that could stand a chance of honouring our complex emotional reality.
Alive& thinking blog “emotional polyamory” - close ppl w/o romance, that just sounds like close friendships which yea I agree that everyone should have that. Your partner shouldn’t be you’re only close relationship aside from family
over the past few years I've been learning that what I want and need isn't accepted by a large majority of people. While I myself have complete confidence that I know what want, it's absolutely something I never talk about with my friends or family. People can be very open minded and still insist that I just want to cheat, etc. Which is always beyond insulting. I have always made sure any romantic partner knows who I am and what I feel before we start dating. Because being open and honest is key to any relationship.
it’s sad to see all these close minded people in the comment. Some people said this video makes them angry? don’t you think you need to figure out why this makes you angry? Aren’t you curious about yourself? People are so scared to figure out themselves. Instead they are sheep who are trying so hard to be what they are told they should be. They believe it so much that they forget how to be themselves. Being selfish is not being self centered. You need to take care of yourself before you can take care of anyone else. The reason why this world is so fucked up right now is because everyone is trying to be in others’ business. Because self exploration and self growth is too difficult and painful. Some may say. Oh I don’t need to change. I’m comfortable. That’s so scary to me when people think like that.
My partner and I have been together in a committed relationship for many years but we decided to not live together. We each have our own house on the same piece of land and see each other daily but have lots and lots of cherished solitude and time to our own. It is an arrangement we both love and can’t imagine differently. We support each other fully whenever needed but have lives that are truly our own as well, and that is very precious. What we consciously avoid in each other are the annoyance, bad moods and other boring routines that have no need to be shared.
Is it still working for you?
@@sonyavincent7450 oh yes, and we both are aware of how privileged we are to be able to do this.
@@Marceau.Verdiere.Atelier do y’all manage your finances together? Can you share some lessons learned? Where do y’all stand on having kids?
@@sonyavincent7450 it is working really well.
woah it's actually a pretty good solution, damn
An alternative for myself would be to find someone that likes me back.
lol that's so true tho
Define like and you will find it - hell, you probably already have at least one person in your life that likes you but it doesn't fit your definition of what liking is.
Slow down there buddy! That sounds like crazy talk to me
So true! This was the key piece of advice a close friend gave me at my last breakup - 'for a change' she said! I was lucky enough to do so - it is entirely possible; the contrast is enormous, though the journey is still full of obstacles!
154 already liked you based on your comment ;)
The first part is true though. We except so much from our future partners. It's like they have to fill several roles in our lives when they are just one person.
expect*
just endless fucking and endless inbreeding... that don't sound like that going to last long...
A single person can perform many tasks, the problem is expecting perfection in all activities.
I was just saying this today. But my argument was u should have a main life partner then fill ur needs with others as needed. So not a lot of people like that but I say do what makes you happy and fuck everyone else. I agree with anything anyone does in this area as long as both sides are consensual. Cant be a friend and a sexual partner and a person to confide in and someone to be a shoulder to cry in and someone to support you and someone to entertain you and some one to...etc. I mean may e some people but personally that’s a lot of pressure on me and on them. Not everyone agrees but people shouldn’t be tied down to one person to fulfill all their needs but Also every one wants to stab me with pitch forks when I say love shouldnt be a job. Usually the people that worked so hard and sacrificed too much to have what they have they don’t want the realization that they coulda been happier. I’m just being realistic. Also I’m too realistic I’ve never been in love, been with a lot of people but no love. So wtf do I know
Thank you!
If you’re monogamous too and don’t feel comfortable with exploring an open relationship that’s okay too. Don’t let people pressure you to change how you want to love/be loved. That goes both ways, if a couple has their own way of loving each other by being open to new ideas, that is totally okay. You don’t need to shame anyone for being monogamous or polyamorous.
Thank you, Chloe. Personally, I am very uncomfortable with the thought of having a relationship that is polyamorous. It is not for me and I will never be comfortable with it, so I am not going to try to be. I do, however, feel pressured by the fact that open relationships are becoming more normalised nowadays, and that I should almost come to accept that I should be more tolerant of a partner that wants to have sex with other people. It is a very little thing that you've said, but it does allow me to take a big breath and not have to question myself for not being open to these ideas which are proliferating. It takes the pressure off me reading what you've said, and makes me feel normal again, so thanks.
I know i can't manage it, i know i'm jealous, i don't want to be, but if i do it i know i'll feel it, so i don't put myself in that position, maybe later i'll come to detach enough to manage it, but right now i can't, it's not good or Bad, it's just true
I've always wondered if the culprit isn't monogamy, but cohabitation. I suspect that some people have affairs just to get a breather from 'the one they're with'.
me too!
Sometimes you just want something different tho
this
Wtf
This is a big thing that's not talked enough about. Cohabitation puts a lot of stress on a relationship. In some cases it might not be worth the financial benefits.
This is really so difficult for example when sex drive doesn't match in relationship. One feels unwanted, another one can feel pressured into sex and called "dysfunctional".
This 😢
Love this. And a discrepancy in sex drive seems so inevitable! How often will two people want sex with each other at the same frequency and time? How to navigate? Life's set up a crazy conundrum for many of us.
I was in a non-monogamous relationship that resulted in my partner exploring other people and eventually getting rid of me. I wanted commitment, with or without monogamy. They wanted to "flow." My ex partner is single today. I am not. They can flow by themselves forever, I don't care. I have ambition and goals in life, and a partner who is equally focused and committed to our relationship.
Sounds like you were being very open minded about the potential but what they wanted wasn't an open minded relationship.
wow u were so open minded that your brains fell out lmao
I needed to read that. I suspect that I am on the same trajectory, and it is is validating to hear from someone else who knew what they wanted and managed to get it. I think this will help me let go of my own ex and let her keep floating around, whilst giving me the confidence that I will find someone who wants commitment like me. Thank you for sharing.
Ahhhhh I was about to fall in that hole, but deciding on breaking off the relationship, We both wanted different things so it was easier and less painful to set everything on fire and don't look back, stay true to yourself and find someone that thinks alike.
Thanks for sharing this. I loved reading this and I have the same doubts about a modern implementation of polyamory, even though I'd myself say I am somewhat poly. The sales pitch of polyamory is that it's a neat fit to our needs for variety. But unfortunately modern reality is far more nuanced and complicated than that.
For this to happen, people would need to be sure of what they want and why, which is one of the biggest limitations we have in our society today. If that was not the case, people wouldn't be watching this channel on the first place!
But it's worth a thought! :)
lots of people have 0 insight lol not everyone sits with themselves to question their life choices. some people just go with the flow on a nice quiet river. must be nice lol
@Niki Saee By that logic, it makes any decision on relationship absurd. Truth is none of us know for sure what we want and why and therefore this whole topic is silly to even think about until we figure out how to fix/heal/mature ourselves. By the same token, it means love who you want and how you want while constantly striving to question and improve oneself. Unfortunately this means what we want might change and we may hurt people. I could go on but I won't because it spirals on and on.
@Niki Saee In that case, we completely agree :)
Funny seeing all of you giving so much thought to this blue pill mediocre content
@@lightghost7524 I think the point of it all was to make people think haha
As Joni Mitchell said so well:
“ If you want endless repetition, see a lot of different people.
If you want infinite variety, stay with one.
What happens when you date is you run all your best moves & tell all your best stories - &, in a way, that routine is a method for falling in love with yourself over & over” .
Astonishingly said. It resembles my own dating experience during past years so well. This is the kind of effect I feel on myself when constantly exposed to modern love liberalism ideas.
You didn't get likes because people crept out.
Well said. There's some (bad) narcissism in that repetition (not loving oneself enough), and seeking the early infatuation thrill over and over to feel validated. However this is not love.
Tanya -but frequently, after awhile, a lot of people aren’t that interesting. 🥳
Oftentimes my experience has been the opposite.
@The Agency -- I only have expensive thrills. 😜
I've just ended an 18 year monogamous relationship. Most of it was good, we managed to build a great business etc because we worked as a solid loving team. The last few years together were excruciatingly difficult, because over the years we evolved into different people and suddenly we just became combative over all sorts of issues. I don't know if I'll ever have the energy for another relationship like what a monogamous arrangement requires. I'd like to have a special, intimate friend, but still live on my own.
Your last two sentences are exactly how I feel. Thank you for sharing.
I feel so much the same!!!
I see a lot of comments about how bad the alternative ideas given in the video are, when actually I just think we've become so used to the monogamous relationship to ever think outside the box and we think that negotiating about non-monogamous relationships with other people is totally impossible just because they've never tried it. But it is possible, we just have to learn to communicate, be honest, and know ourselves deeply enough to be able to be in one of these alternative relationships successfully!
What’s missing is the negative side to these arrangements.
it can be assumed that All of the choices including monogamy Will have a downside that has to be navigated By anyone Choosing to engage in any relationship
Don't worry, I'm sure main stream society will list them for you. So this video doesn't bother, instead it tries to show it in new light.
Jealousy is a powerful emotion and the reason why there is monogamy. Children is the other reason. Multiple relationships is practice for divorce. Also relationships need work, like everything else, they are never perfect. Expecting everything to be wonderful always is unrealistic and the pathway to loneliness. Without that one stable relationship in life, you have no anchor, you are adrift.
@@CreekValleyCritters SOL is not saying monogamy is bad, they're just saying it's not the only kind of relationship out there. If monogamy works for you then great but it doesn't work for me and i'm up front with my partners from the beginning, there's no contracts, I don't have a bunch of sexual partners that I just have orgy's with, they're mature lasting friendships. Does the occasional person wish to have something more? Sure but you get that from even casual friendships it's just part of life.
@@chadatchison145 Everyone I know who has that outlook has ended up alone. And even if you are upfront with partners, the likelihood of them still being hurt is high. People want to feel special, not just one of many, just a phase to pass through.
Yeah navigating other kinds of relationships can be harmful like many comment, but monogamous standard relationships are often harmful too. Both have a lot of potential for misunderstandings and abuse of feelings. Whats needed is honesty and compassion with your relationships and you’ll get through it fine.
Hello School of Life, i once accidentally stole a book from your shop in London, i spilled my coffee on the floor while looking through it and i put the book under my arm to clean the coffee i spilled, then i forgot that i was still carrying it and i left the shop, i only realised that it was still with me 20 minutes later when i had already left, i felt so ashamed to return it i didn't want the cashier to think i stole it so i gifted it to my sister. the book was called "things never to tell children" the book cost 8 pounds which i gave to a homeless person, anyway i just wanted to say i'm sorry i guess it was a lesson in the school of life :)
Hana Faouri that’s wholesome enough ahah
Sounds good, but that doesn't cut it, particularly saying you "gifted the book to your sister and then have the price of the book to a homeless person;". You need to pay the price of the book to where you took it from.
Juliet Tailor you’re right i will do it although maybe too late but also never too late?
@@goawag never too late. :-) This will do you more good than you know. 🙏
the metaphor of "the menu of love" seems to me like love is something that is consumed. On the other hand, the way they categorize the needs of a partner reminds me of the materialistic approach of classification in western science. Even for emotions, they consider them as different needs to be fulfilled by different personalities (which seems it degrades a person to a categorized material) by giving a lot of examples of material consuming.
I agree. It’s all so clinical, moderately transactional and removed, as if you just catch Love like the flu. In reality, love is an action and in healthy relationships, a choice. I’m not here for being on anybody’s ‘menu’ for consumption ... love gives.
every comment in this video is quite good
Its funny because what you essentially said lines up with what post modernist hate the most: sexual objectification. Yet the ideas in this video is held true by most if not all post modernist. They contradict themselves. You can’t have a “menu of love” without objectifying the person which you are trying to do this with.
Thats why I believe that at the core, the only motive a message like this holds is the justification of peoples wrong desires/actions. In other words, I want to cheat on my spouses so instead of having self control and not acting on that wrong desire, i’ll sprinkle a glittery philosophy to justify it.
Thank you, this just blew my mind. A weight has been lifted off my shoulders because I couldn’t do the traditional relationship/marriage thing. I need my space and the freedom to be myself. I can’t wait until the whole world gets on board so we can all be more content.
Honestly, the key is to stop asking society (i.e. people in your life) for approval, and quietly start doing what you need to do to feel happy and fulfilled.
Suit yourself, Reina, but let the rest of the world do what it wants to do. We don't all want what you want.
I tried this restrictive life for decades except for the children part, but finally realized that it wasn’t for me. I’m happily single and happily childless.
Monogamy is a set of rules created by someone and people try to fit in. Have you ever considered creating your own rules with your partner?
Creating our own rules worked brilliantly. The problem was judgement and criticism from our social circle.
I believe that there is a reason why monogamy is the most accepted.
In my opinion monogamy is the best way of making strong relationships that are capable of supporting children and having security in your life.
All long-term relationships should fit into the 'separate-spheres' category. The only way of making it work is when each party has their own separate sphere, meaning that they stay together because they want to but not because they are co-dependent on each other.
The amount of negative comments here makes me kinda sad. I'm a big fan of monogamy myself. But that doesn't mean I can't think about other concepts, talk about them with my partner, and staying curious and respectful about other approaches to relationships.
And I think it's actually beautiful and important for personal growth to reflect on our own emotions and believes. It's totally fine if you say that this way of living isn't your way. But I feel like a lot of interesting questions just start at this point, like "Why do I like those kind of relationships?", "Where do my feelings of jealousy/romance/trust... come from?". And it feels like a lot of people just skip over that part of reflection, even though it just helps to understand yourself better.
My thoughts exactly! Thanks for writing it up so I don't feel like I have to haha. Yay personal growth and open mindedness!
people can do whatever their hearts desire as long as it doesnt hurt the other person. not everyone have kids.....but when it comes to people that have KIDS , a broken family or a family system that does not give most of their ATTENTION to nurturing and loving them by USING THEIR TIME is not something society should move forward in.
People don’t want to explore sexual orientation or gender Identity. They are afraid that they might learn something about themselves that would shake them to the very core. People are scared to learn things about them selves that they don’t know. People fear what they don’t understand.
Monogamy derives from the very notion of fatherhood. In practically all mammals, the male provides resources, time and effort into the family unit under the expectation that the offspring he is providing these essential tools for well-being are his biologically. These "restrictions" that the video touched upon have been imposed by our society centering around the nuclear family. When our ancestors lived in tribes of around 50-150 people, the well being of offspring was ensured collectively by the women of the tribe. This is obviously no longer the case, so we have adopted the monogamous romantic relationship as the cornerstone of our large societies. The natural urges mentioned are, of course, natural. This argument in favor of them, however, is an appeal to nature fallacy. What is natural is not necessarily good for the well-being of our society. I am under the impression that these urges are manifestations of the strategic pluralism and dual-mating strategies that we have evolutionarily been pressured into over thousands of years before the advent of modern societies. Thank you all for coming to my TED talk.
@@wsxedcrfv1755 Neither the video nor the original comment are arguments in favor of non-monogamous relationships as much as they are acknowledgements that these types of arrangements exist and may (or may not) prove to be better alternatives for some people. Any and all types will have their benefits and drawbacks.
This might work if people actually knew what they wanted. We only THINK we know what we want, until we get it and find we don't want it.
Aaaaaand people lie or have ulterior motives.
This is so, so true. Not just in relationships even, but in life in general. We make decisions that dont reflect on what we want because we never really self-evaluate enough. We never get to know ourselves on a deeper level (“I mean, come on, just read it again. 'Deeper level?' Sounds deep enough for me to get lost in, I'm not touching that.”)
Facts i confirm. :)
That can be said for monogamy too. A lot of people think they want it until they get it.
I’ve been living non-monogamous relationships since 2012.. It’s amazing! It’s not easy as you don’t learn how to live it in movies, friends or family, so you are on your own to study how to connect to another human being in this new way.
This is one of those situations were is easier said than done
What is there to "do" exactly? You're not achieving anything, there are no end goals in mind. It's literally the exact opposite, you are freeing yourself from the pressure of having to keep up a single relationship. Please think about what you type before you type it.
@@sebastianelytron8450 You also have to be open to your loved one going to other people. It may be freeing for you but it's the opposite for many people. There will be jealousy, pressure to maintain multiple relationships if you choose to do that. Worries about other's falling in love with you or your partner leaving you for someone else. It's not sunshine and rainbows. The OP is right and that statement doesn't need more thinking as you put it.
@@sebastianelytron8450 Well your partner might have different goals in mind. No two people have all the same exact goals.
Definitely easier said than done
@@mischahecter896 On contrary. Before you can truly give to others, you have to take responsibility of yourself. That frees up the energy to be the true you to those close to you.
My spouse and I are making this work. We are great parents to our children and friends to each other. We enjoy intimacy with each other as well and at the same time we spend time with others, usually when one of us is busy with work (we’re both professionals, she stays at home a little more). She was the one who suggested this first. She was the first one to find a “male friend” and then suggest the idea to me. She says it helps her feel excited that she can try something different while at the same time diminishing that feeling of missing out and still able to keep commitment to our family, being a good mother, wife, etc... we were only able to do this once we felt really comfortable with each other, sharing our thoughts, and being happy for one another (instead of jealous). There’s a word for that last one: compersion, the opposite of jealousy.
Just out of curiosity (because you wrote this 2yrs ago). Is it still working?
Delusional couples think they are going to be madly in love forever. You have to question what you're going into a relationship for in the first place. You have to look at the big picture otherwise don't go into a relationship.
Agreed with a lot of other comments. I’m in a monogamous relationship, and yes, it is very hard. There’s sexual frustration, at times boredom, sometimes power struggles, sometimes a craving to be alone. But we also build each other up. Support eachother through school. Help eachother through finance issues. Work through childhood traumas together. Sure, I could hypothetically separate love and sex and sexually explore others as could my wife, but love and sex ARE not separate. I wouldn’t only be jealous of other partners she might have, I would be fearful of her developing feelings for another person. Our love would be in constant jeopardy.
And our children benifit most from two parents who are strongly engaged, successful, and working together.
Idk, I think the monogamous relationship is idealized because, after all, it’s ideal.
Well said.
I have to say it - if you're worried about her developing feelings for another person then it doesn't sound like you have a particularly healthy relationship in the first place. If monogamy only serves to force you together, it doesn't really serve you at all.
@@hojdog Trust is an on going thing. If your lover starts spending more and more time with someone else and less with you, it's obvious some concern can be had. Now to ask for you to just completely trust your lover to remain yours exclusively, without any doubt whatsoever, forever, is asking you to stop being human.
Theo He is talking about a hypothetical situation, not something daily. It is obvious that he would be afraid if his partner starts seeing someone else in a sexual way, i know some cases where couples try swinger stuff and the wife/husband ends up loving the swinger, obviously leaving the other person.
The statistics also show the person most likely to murder you is your spouse. Ok - so "the monogamy ideal" gives you the most optimal results - fine. But what is the point of an ideal if only 15% of the population achieve it and 85% suffer because of it? At that point we have to offer some non-ideal forms as harm mitigation. The cumulative effect will be better than offering "the ideal" alone.
This channel is sending me mixed signals.
Same. Sometimes they provide real helpful and insightful points of view on certain aspects in life but other times they put out really modern approaches that are completely opposite of the views I hold. I think the best thing to do is to take what you think is helpful from them and ignore the rest.
M S This is a Philosophy channel, it teaches you what happens when you’re in a monogamous romantic relationship, why most marriages end in divorce. It is not telling you what to do or how to live your life, it just tells you WHY you may feel the way you do.
@@johnhernandez6654 With all due respect, if you disregard and ignore all that stands in opposition of your own beliefs and moral standpoints, you're unlikely to ever emotionally grow as an individual. At the very least, exposing yourself to contradictory worldviews and philosophies can allow you to develop a sense of empathy for people you may have once looked down upon.
gammon dragon I never said that you shouldn’t consider their point of view. You definitely should. But if you consider somebody else’s point of view and don’t agree with it, then you should ignore it. If I believe that drinking and partying is bad, then I’m not going to take up that lifestyle. I would it’s unhealthy to not have any standards.
@@johnhernandez6654 you can learn from and appreciate people's views and lifestyle choices without taking them on yourself. Watching a video on polyamory or non-traditional relationships can still provide you with valuable insight into how other people think even if your totally happy in a monogamous partnership. To use your example, I personally don't drink but I love, respect and respect the rights of my friends that do.
This past few years. I started to think and believe that a healthy relationship consists actually a network of people. Jealousy is the enemy. I know it’s hard. But you need to know. You don’t own anyone. No one owns you. Everyone is connected because of faith and trust and truly wanting the best for the ones you love. This is based on 100% self love and respect. If you love yourself, not the stagnant self you think you are, but the ever evolving self. life is short. Be the person you wanna be. Truly listen to what your heart says. Be kind to yourself and others. Be selfish but not self centered. Be patient. Accept yourself but keep making small changes to be more mindful! Don’t say it’s easy said than done, because it’s boring to me. I know it’s easy said than done. Start practicing now!
Right on. The 'easier said than done' attitude is what is wrong in the first place. I've never seen two people who love each other so much that they want to spend the rest of their life together go "let's enter into this union for eternity, through sickness and health, come what may we will work together and support each other and do whatever it takes" only to then go "well it's easier said than done so we should no longer even try that". Why can't we take that same attitude to monogamy and apply it to other types of relationships that aren't as common instead of dismissing them and not even attempting to put in the same work and effort that you would put into a widely acceptable and popular relationship type.
Good words of wisdom!!
This couldn’t have come at a better time in my life. I’d had this idea for an unorthodox partnership / pseudo-relationship. And one of the models you guys presented, explains it really well. Thank you so much for this video.
I just started to explore these options... but it’s not easy to stay confident in my curiosity when I am surrounded by society’s only option, and my family starts to worry about me.
Wish you good luck.
Perhaps it would help to remember that even a short time ago (and unfortunately in some places even today) gay people were considered crazy even by their loved ones, and now so much of mainstream society considers that normal.
This would work in a world composed of adults (not the teenager-minded society we live in) and without the existence of STDs.
But that's ideal, not real.
I've had very different kinds of relationships through my life, and all of them had the same problems the "traditional" relationships have.
Just multiplied by every person involved...
Daena Michelle the relationship you have doesnt have to be dictated by society. if you talk to your parter what each one can expect and you hold that promise everything is fair game
@@sdafsf I didn't say anything about that.
In all my relationships it was all clear, all honest and all fairgame.
But what I said in my first comment still applies.
@kshiftkometh
About polygamy, let people do what makes them happy as long as they harm nobody else.
If you don't like it, fine, you can live without it and have an opinion as everyone else, that doesn't mean you are right neither wrong.
But you must know there is no "social contract", what do you think is right or wrong, nobody cares, neither what morals you have, you can live through them and leave everyone else in peace.
There is law, and you don't have power over that.
Just an opinion, just words.
Agreed on your comment about STDs, so, about ignorance, it is so widespread. In the past we used to think that lack of information is what produced it.
But nowadays everyone has access to info and they are still so ignorant, or even worse, like antivac, so...
Let them be as pathetic as they are, as long as it doesn't affect you.
And if it does, then fight them via the ways you are legally able to
@kshiftkometh i never said theres no sacrifice. if allparties agree to alter the "social contract" i dont see the problem
STDs may be a problem in some of the life choices available, but this video doesn't narrow itself to "have sex with as many people as you like" life choices.
be on your own - single! For as long as you don´t think you can benefit to a partner´s life. That is an alternative!
so much yes to this!
Agree on this 💯
@kshiftkometh not only is your comment incoherent and non-sensical, it is also very much off-topic.
the definition of "comments one should re-read before posting, be confused one was capable of ever typing it and immediately deleting it"
I agree💜 and that's exactly what I'm doing right now
If that's what you want.
After a 30 year relationship that was not well matched; I can attest to all the difficult emotional labels I have made myself bear while being very unhappy. I assume that this monogamous relationship was my only choice and therefore there was something very wrong with me for not being happy.
My situation ended up in an emotional breakdown and divorce. 4 more years later I am now realizing that I am one of the 85%. I have not given up on love but I now require a different type of love that allows me space, my own room, freedom from that one all encompassing soul mate.
A very complexe subject, that requires high level of maturity. Most of these alternatives sound like splitting: how then can one move towards a sense of self-unifying? What happens with security (a basic need) when there is a risk of yearly "tabula rasa", how can one dare to invest in attachment, time and efforts (necessary in any relationship)? We live in a strongly individualistic society, where pleasure and self-realization are glorified, idealized, but is it really satisfying on the long run? And what about children: aren’t they sacrificed on the altar of their parents’ adolescent egos? Of course, no one should stay in a relationship that is toxic. But maybe what we want from a relationship has also to do with what we are ready to give. The other is not a disposable merchandize. The "rainbow culture" does bring a voice of freedom and respect, but when blurring the boundaries is believing that all you imagine is attainable, it becomes delusional, and downright immature.
Well said! While watching, I was thinking along the same lines and you've perfectly articulated my thoughts.
Thank you for this. I believe this is the same sentiment most people seem to have in this comment section. I was sort of afraid people were going to dogmatically accept everything he says. I understand where he comes from but he is way too idealistic and objective about topic of open relationships an neglects the detrimental issues that could come with it.
Exactly! I was thinking for some time about how to say exactly what you said here. Thank you.
My thoughts exactly...
Why should it matter that a person wants to be for themself and grow themself for the rest of their life ?
When kids are involved, I think it’s better to work towards building a strong family unit.
The data proves this is accurate. Children benefit and thrive in an environment where both parents are present and engaged.
@cum cakes in my opinion,everyone is entitled to their own position. And to that end they must reap what they sow. The data simply records a snapshot of reality at any given point in time based on choices and results of those choices.
Who's to say you can't have a strong family unit as well as an open relationship?
yeah but what do we consider as a strong family unit? a home with a father and a mother living together? how many of this kind of family have we seen fail at the union subject? it is not the format the family has, but the relationship it has.
@@MrLuisergiox it is possible. Many people are drug addicts that have kids and don't raise, yet you have Karen s that believe their kids are the center of the universe.
It is a proven fact that the more options we have on the menu, the less satisfied we will be with the decision we make..
that is not true. The curve that relates number of choices to satisfaction is not a straight line. It is a messy curve that doesn't peek at 1. And where exactly it peeks depends on the domain from which you choose.
Also.. are you aware of the implications one could draw from your logic?
if people are happier with only one choice.. we'll let's put them in concentration camps and have them do forced labor all day. Why? Because they have only 1 choice in profession, therefore they must be happier.
It is obvious that you started your reasoning with the conclusion that monogamy is the only viable life style and then went out and looked for a theory that might support your emotions.
@@georgplaz I personally like non-monogamy but its not just about me.. a traditional monogamous marriage is obviously best for the kids and their well being.. also a satisfied human being is a myth.. people always want more no matter how much they have.. its basic human nature and nothing wrong with it.. no one is restricting anyone to do anything.. even today the choice is virtually unlimited.. but I feel we are better than our basic instincts.. its best(for self and for humanity) if we explore our sexuality as much as we want first and then find a suitable partner for the rest of our lives.. to me there is more depth and satisfaction in one meaningful relationship for a lifetime.. of course I will be bored but there are many ways to keep it interesting.. its worth it..
Do you advocate that view for all parts of life?
There should be -one- choice of clothing. One type of apartment. One meal on the menu. One type of vacation. One job for everyone. People are the happiest if they have no choice about anything?
@@agrajag-no when did i say there should be "only one choice" for anything ?
i feel that SOL underestimates the destructive power of "jealousy"
What is this "jealousy" for you?
No doubt, they act as if everyone is so perfectly rational. And they say all of this in that unctuous limey voice.
it's annoying because i like SOL. most of the stuff is sound, but every once in a while they come out with "monogamy is overrated" stuff. i hate it.
@@ianbirchfield5124 Alain De Botton as the title says is only proposing an alternative to standard relationships :)
@@ianbirchfield5124 Why? For a lot of people this can save quite a bit of pain. It opens some eyes to the ideas of new relationships, all which are valid. Monogamy is fine when it works, but for others that isn't always the case.
Everyone arguing about these alternate relationship philosophies but I’m just here thinking how lazy the animation is
I have never been in an exclusive monogamous relationship, and sure it takes a lot of communication, mature and self reflected people to pull it off, but it's not as hard as some might think. The biggest problem people have is jealousy, which has it's roots in the fear of beeing replaced and abandoned. But we don't have the same jealousy with friends, do we? No-one gets jealous at a friend, when they hang out with someone else, because we know they won't stop talking to us, if they occasionally go drink a beer with another buddy. Hell, we might even tag along and get to know that other person.
So why don't we do the same in relationships? Because we have been conditioned to think, that we can only love, feel attracted and live our lives with one single person, while it's normal to have a group of friends.
Some people are truly happy living the "standard" monogamous relationship. The other 85% could consider asking themselves, what type of relationship would suit them best.
There are
many options out there, go exploring!
i like this point better than said in the vid.... BUT friendship doesnt hold so much at stake either....
👏👏👏👏👏
i think my previous comment require a bit elaboration. from friendship doesnt hold so much at stake i meant the u cant depend on friend for continued support of various high valued things like emotional support, financial support, personal care when ill etc etc... i hope it clarifies what i wanted to say more
I’m okay thanks, kinda defeats the purpose of feeling special plus. Idk how anyone could let their SO get fucked by someone else
I just want someone that likes me in a honest way. And this doesn't mean being passionate, relationships built on passion only last as long as it does (usually a few months or years depending on the case), honest love is being able to fully appreciate another person, their good and bad side, understand and assist them.
No one is perfect, expecting your partner to be perfect and satisfy you completely is wrong and in some sense even egotistical
These ideas are thought provoking. Sadly it requires the person to be very mature and in touch with their emotions. Even if only 15% of the people are satisfied with traditional ways of relationships, i suspect it is substantially more than people who are mature enough to experiment with these new type of relationships.
This all works out great, if you think about relationships logically and remove nearly all emotion.
It's almost like the key to this is to have all parties in these relationships be self centered. The have your cake and eat it approach.
cjxgraphics yeah, I just feel as though he’s pretending emotions aren’t real. This is some sociopathic stuff.
@kshiftkometh what in gods name are you on about
And you can't remove emotion from anything. That's textbook neurosis.
@cjxgraphics it works if you're emotionally mature
Total monogamy sounds exhausting to me tbh. My partner and I are happy being poly. We got into our relationship knowing that we both were looking for nonmonogamy, so there weren’t any surprises.
We are there for each other sexually and romantically, but recognize that our attraction to other people didn’t suddenly shut off when we got together. Why would I want to hold her back from what she wants? Why would she want to hold me back from what I want? We’re both free to fall in love with another person, find pleasure in other people, and develop deep connections with whoever we want. We have clear boundaries and talk about any concerns we have. We’re secure in our love and friendship. We just happen to let other people into the picture.
It’s not for everyone. But, a lot more people are in these sorts of arrangements than you’d think. And, like, it’s a lot less of a big deal than a lot of people make it out to be.
LYRIC ZOMBIE lol I’m not a dude. And, if she’s wants to dump me at some point, then that’s her decision and I’ll respect it. It’s not my job to hold her back. It’s just my job to love and support her for as long as we both find it mutually beneficial.
Hard agree. Just out curiosity, is it really that easy for you, or did you just agree with it rationally but still struggled emotionally? You make it sound so easy and obvious, but for me (and for my partner) it was very hard to get rid of all that jealousy, insecurities ("You will get dumped!!!") and all that nasty stuff.
@@Heulerado Stoic mindfulness (negative visualization, fear setting, identifying thought distortions, etc) had already primed me to be able to deal with jealousy/insecurities/possessiveness before she and I had gotten together. Non-monogamy seemed like a rational option for honoring my attractions. It's super easy for me now because I have useful tools, but I had already done a lot of work on myself.
For her, on the other hand, it just all seemed to come naturally without any kind of practiced mindfulness beforehand. It just makes inherent sense to her to be open to several partners. She says she just doesn't feel romantic jealousy in a notable way.
So, we had two different paths that ended up at the same place, I guess.
@ Fascinating. People are so weird! Every time you think you found something fundamental about humans, you get a counterexample thrown at your face
Seeing how romanticized monogamy is in art, movies, books and history it isn't surprising to see that a lot of people of people feel uncomfortable just by showing them an alternative option.
I don't feel comfortable because I was "just" shown an alternative option. I feel uncomfortable because of the sarcastic description of life-long monogamous relationships. Yes, I'm with the same person, yes, it is for life, and yes, I see them age. It's not bad, and there's no need to pinpoint it as if it was bad.
Then they go on to say how monogamous people claim that polyamorus ones are mentally ill. We don't, lmao?
If youre still into monogamous relationships, I'm gonna have to break it to you: *it's completely fine*
As a matter of fact, if anyone took this video as a means to say that monogamy sucks or something like that, they should rewatch it, since it never said it wasn't successful in the first place, in fact, it still is in many ways, but the lately modern times with technology, and new ways of communication open up for different alternatives that may have better chances of satisfying various groups of people, and I think thats for the better.
I for one, had 3 monogamous romantic relationships, and ended up in multiple infidelities and a broken sense of trust and emotional secutity, as well as repressed sexual desires. In my case I took a change for a more open, but still romantic, relationship, and it's doing wonders for me in the sense that I can keep a loveable person beside me, while keeping my trust and presence active with my friends and other things I myself consider important
Notice how I explained my personal experience, because I don't think almost anybody can talk over and for the needs of other people, only give chances of thinking in my opinion.
Don't know why you have so few upvotes with one of the most sensible, rational comments on this video.
@@chirvy10 well even if it is rational, it sounds a bit personal and it can be unrelatable
I respect your comment and thank you for being so open. I'd like to ask something, and feel free to decline to answer if you wish, as it is quite personal. So, I empathise with what you say about your experience in monogamous relationships, and I can relate to it myself. The thing is, I've ever imagined that I would be OK with your current type of relationship as an alternative, as I can't imagine ever being comfortable cuddling up to someone on the couch knowing that they were intimate with someone else not too long before. I can't imagine being able to smell another man on my intimate partner and being anything but absolutely disgusted an enraged by that. I guess my question is, is that something that bothered you or that you thought about and managed to overcome? If so, how? Thank you if you are able to take the time to respond.
@@craigr4763 Well I myself am not bothered to feel the smell (or cues outside of body aroma) of someone else in my partner, unless the person in question is someone I dislike for reasons outside of the fact that my partner was with someone else.
Besides, you can always get a bath before you meet up with your bf/gf, and have a decent presence with them since I could suppose that always sensing someone was with your couple a few hours ago can be damaging on the long run
It mostly depends on how you manage yourself and who's your partner.
In any case, and in any kind of relationship, both sides should be open to hear concerns from their loved one, since at the end of the day theyre the one's whom you'll be talking the most on a daily basis, as well as sleeping with when no-one else is around
Edit:
It should be stated that I'm not in a polyamorous relationship, but a just open one. I don't find the idea of having multiple lovers in the same level as a boyfriend/girlfriend appealing for my taste
Thank you for the constant reminder to strive for growth in all areas in life
As someone who is aroace, thank you for this video even if others are a little put off from the idea.
Love the concept of Alternative Relationships. The challenge is that our society isn't set up for them. At least not for women and also people who have lower incomes. For example, it's much cheaper to live in a one-bedroom apartment/condo with a partner than by oneself. Unfortunately, incomes haven't kept up at a rate that allows a single person to afford these apartments. Now, living with family or roommates could work but then you need a bigger space. Those can even be out of reach. Add to this that women of all backgrounds make less than men...well you start to see the problem.
We can and should encourage alternative relationships. At the same time, we need to work towards a more equal society where these relationships can exist with more ease.
SOL is always giving us another and refreshing new angle : thank you !
To the people disliking, he's not forcing you to do anything or even asking anyone to do anything, he's merely offering people more options. This is literally just more choice, if you're angry at people having more choices, reevaluate your life,
I love the School of Life but this is definitely my favourite video. I've been going about this theory for ages, including having a child with my best friend and keep having my romantic relationships free to be whatever I want. People called me crazy for saying this many times. I 100% back this. Thank you, it's needed.
Good for you. Brave.
This movement has been a very interesting issue here in Argentina. Free love is the most important ideal since it stands for respecting and caring for each others emotions, ways of relating and sexual desires.
@dangboof Does that has anything to do with free love or with the lack of sexual education?
@dangboof and yet, many people in the 60s and 70s lead fulfilling non-traditional relationships. So what is your point?
been in an amazing open relationship for 2.5 years now and its been great and the most understanding, sweet and caring relationship ive ever had. i wish more people gave it more thought and maybe worked on the things that make them feel so jealous in the first place, everyone needs to see themselves as lovable and worthy and have loads of different unique things about us then we would all be a bit less jealous and in the end more open about relationships like these. it would be easier for alot of people stuck in unhappy relationships if this was presented as an option instead of shunned and ridiculed.
Yes. If only we could all fuck eachothers wives. That'd solve all our problems. Gluttony breeds arrogance/stupidity.
@@letourneauvt9566 Brutal, but damn well said hahaha. I bet these people who praise open relationship are the ones doing the serial fucking... While their "willing partner" are sitting at home like clueless dupes.
Unions are not so much romantic as they are economic.
THIS.
This is the one video that I have so far seen from The School of Life that I would disagree with. As a member of the LGBT community myself, I can safely say that the LGBT have managed to cause increasing heartache and strain by pushing the anti-heteronormative argument and always offers up heteronormative values as the reasons for failure. Never self-critiquing. The “one menu option” might be unyielding and have high stress rates - but maybe an analysis that acknowledges that it WAS the only option to survive the cut for so long and probably did so because it had merit.
In a day and age where social mores are increasingly debauched and people seem to pursue self-fulfilment through pleasure, voracious volumes of entertainment and quick hit dopamine - maybe a forethought on the types of societies that got us here in the first place. None of us would be here if our ancestors pursued lives that a significant proportion of us are now having.
I certainly don’t want to drop the ball. Tweaks to the system is fine, but disregarding the “one item” on the menu sounds an awful lot like looking to skip straight to dessert. 🙄
This seems convincing but the thing is, can anyone honestly say that they won't feel jealous or ashamed or humiliated if the person they LOVE was sleeping with someone else?? and vice-versa can anyone honestly say that they love someone if they can regularly sleep with someone else knowing that your partner could feel that type of way ? That's a no no for me
Yes, but who's to say jealousy isn't just a normal feeling that we feel from time to time? Is the avoidance of jealousy a good enough reason to go through a relationship that doesn't satisfy you?
Yes, I can say that. First, loving doesn't mean owning. Second, it's possible to love more than one person at a time. Third, routine is what kills love.
@@enzoma7253 yes. I agree.
@@hojdog if the relationship is not satisfying you can talk about it with your partner and find a solution or if it doesn't work you can decide to take another path and find someone else but the options presented in this video seem to not taking into account the feelings and therefore they are not applicable in real life, if you really love and care about your partner of course. In my opinion.
@@bravewanderer7646 But what if it's unsatisfying because of these very reasons? Most people who practice polyamory have done just what you said. Started a monogamous relationship, found that it wasn't satisfying, perhaps talked about it, moved onto someone else or began an alternative relationship. IMO, if you really love and care about your partner and you know they love and care about you, what do you have to worry about?
The challenges that come in a monogamous relationship are the drive behind self development.
If it wasn’t for the difficulties we would never evolve as species.
We’ll just live like animals
I believe we already are animals, living like animals.
lannydragonlover
We have an animalistic side to us that is true.
But we also can be highly sophisticated and virtuous like angles.
I am not into denying our animalistic self but taming it into the highest noblest self possible.
That’s what i always thought, why do people try to remove the standard relationship? (monogamous) It is actually a very good thing to practice because, as you said, it requires self development, it requires being less “animal” and more “brain”.
Wot angels? ;) We invented these really high standards where we think zero sum does not apply but in reallity that does not exist. If you take a harder look you can see it everywhere.
@@لمىالشريف-غ8كBeing faithful is good, as long as everyone agrees that that is what they want. If someone wants more than one partner, and the other person wants two - then they might not be compatible at all, since one of them will always feel unhappy and unfulfilled. It would be ideal if they could find partners that could accept and embrace the parts of them that are not generally accepted,. I do not know if it is possible, to be honest, but as long as it does not hurt people, I do not mind people experimenting with different kinds of love, family, and relationships.
I feel like instead of looking to change the way we love, the problem with a lot of these "standard relationships" over so much time is that people aren't finding the right person for engaging with so intensely. Doesn't everyone actually really desire to have a partner like was described in the beginning of the video as long as you truly love them and stay 100% in love?
All of these alternatives seem far to professional and mature for the emotions of any person. Surely if you tried to implement one of these with your partner they would reluctantly agree or be offended and afraid. People love each other at different times and for different reasons, and negotiating a contract with a lover seems impersonal and too rigid.
Why am I writing this? Who am I fighting this for? 😂
Jarrett Connatser I was thinking the same thing!
The video brings a very interesting point and raise a valid discussion, but I’m not sure if I’m not mature enough for it or if I’m already too deep in the status quo to embrace it in my life!
Or maybe we as society are not mature enough!
Thank you for the video!
Well being in a relationship with someone who you have mutual respect and trust for makes it easy to bring up topics that are hard. Broad City did an episode about negotiating a relationship and they had lists for their goals for the upcoming year... I think it’s a great idea. Sometimes you aren’t on the same page as your partner and that’s okay.. as long as you talk about it. “Checking in” once a year in a LTR or even once a day, week or month can show your partner that you care how they feel and that you respect them.
Bro u had an opinion, u just had to let it out
But people in monogamous relationship also have some "contract" behind it. It's just standard so they can pretend it's not there.
if open and clear communication about each others wants and needs is too mature, i don't know what to tell you. even inside monogamous relationships that's expected.
Oh my gosh, thank you so much for this video. You just gave me an incredible tool to share with all of those around me in a new town that don’t understand (and therefore don’t approve) of my domestic situation.
Man lots of people hear seem to have a negative reaction to these ideas, and some resort to insulting too. As an introvert, I can say that being around people drains a lot of me; even if it's from family and friends. For me, jist texting and seeing people a few tomes every week is okay. I work at a retail job and at the end of the day there's only a few people I like.
Honestly, I think it is possible for a relationship to be more open, but that comes down to the individuals handling the relationship(s). Everyone has different needs, and that's not to say everyone should be in a open relationship. People should be more honest and open in what they want out of it.
I don't understand the relevance of the first part
I can really understand your feelings. Long time of my life I hated myself for not "fitting" in the traditional scheme. This is coming to an end right now and it seems other people are awakinig to their true selves, too. This IS a loveley development indeed.
Sane, can relate
Also yeah, after 15 years in CS work I had to finance a year off. I'm feeling better now after about 5 months, but it took that long to recover some shred of faith in humanity.
@@jinjunliu2401 so basically everyone still needs time for themselves and focus on themselves. I like to hang out with friends and stuff, but at the end of it all I spend more time just being by myself.
Even relationships, you are responsible for what you want out of it.
To all the close minded conservatives (or fake liberals/progressives) who commented: most of your concerns can apply to traditional relationships just as much or more. Relationships in general are complicated and have their pros and cons. They're all easier said than done. Different people have different predispositions and preferences. Different arrangements might work more or less depending on the people involved. Complicated, yes, but so is life.
"There's more on the menu than monogomy"
Proceeds to list variations of monogomy whilst going out of the way to avoid talking about polyamoury.
uhh ok
Muuuy cierto. Poliamor!!!
yeah I noticed this too lol like I'm poly leaning and yeahhh latter half of this is literally just poly-oriented stuff lol
They did specify *romantic* monogamy.
This channel has already made a specific video about polygamy. School of Life does not “avoid” complex relationship issues.
@@galaxybounce1002 Do you mean Polyamoury? And yes I saw that, but it didn't really. It was talking about it more in the context of trying to fix monogamous relationships.
Can't understand the holier-than-thou dislikers. He's not suggesting to spend our days in brothels, just confessing we've all thought about different "partners" from time to time. Bless those who can keep a happy marriage going for years (they are winners!) but for people who can't be compatible with a longtime partner for any reason (even nonsexual) this video is telling you you are fine, normal, and will be okay.
Good comment. Very well put.
Damn dude, with all the mental gymnastics needed to justify this terrible video.
I'm surprised you haven't begun levitating after opening all those chakras.
Yup!! This video isn’t against monogamy at all! Its saying that people everyone is different.
@@EliteDebate Perhaps you should be exercising your mental gymnastics and explain to us why this video is terrible? Or is it just something you don't feel comfortable hearing?
After reading this comment I’ve changed my tune. Thanks
This channel really is like a secular church, with many of the advantages you'd expect of that (not sarcasm). It's a routine exposure to thought provoking questions and philosophy - for the masses - In this aspect just like church was, but without the often limiting religious worldview.
I know this is one of the goals for this channel, and i think it's really working, good job everyone.
Well, he does have a TedTalk that says exactly what you said called Athiesm 2.0
www.ted.com/talks/alain_de_botton_atheism_2_0?language=en
@Mr Yellow I think the link triggered RUclips's spam-filter, coz RUclips didn't give me any notification that you'd replied with this a week ago. (just seeing it here for the first time now, by luck)
i love this video so much, cant imagine being committed to only a person the entire life
The idea that any sexual taste or proclivity should be acceptable so long as it doesn't hurt unwilling participants is a dangerous notion. Humans have many self destructive tendencies, not the least of which are sexual, and curbing them is the job of culture and society. That being said I would not outlaw those behaviors, but I would discourage them through cultural means. Yes being in a long term committed relationship is hard work, but that is what makes it rewarding.
I am only at ease only in online sweetheart but not actual personal sweetheart relationship, i love freedom , i don’t want to be manipulated and be controlled !
So happy someone is finally articulating this. I really wish we would take people at face value and understand that their sex drive, sexual orientation, sexual attraction, etc. are usually within the realm of instinctive, physical or subconscious things that they cannot control. They can withhold or very carefully conceal these needs from us, but they are still going to be there, sipping though every crack, usually in all sorts of twisted behaviour, while causing a lot of inner turmoil and division.
Whether or not we're willing and able to truly face ourselves and others is for each to decide. I for one seek truth over anything because I am convinced there is a certain magic that can be achieved only when you allow space for the entirety of a person to unfold. I want people to trust that whatever they want to share with me I will be able to take.
Sometimes I feel the limits of my empathy and understanding stretched in my attempt to accommodate certain aspects of peoples personality, but I always feel enriched and enlightened once I do. It's beautiful. Let's just try that more please.
@@clare2385 In my humble opinion, you can't force people to commit to a monogamous relationship if they are not convinced by it. They will always wonder what would've been otherwise, they will always feel a bit hindered and suffocated, in time even resentful. For such people it's much better to just give them freedom and let them appreciate the beauty of the relationship they have with you when they realise how rare it is to develop something like that.
If you think that would be too hard for you, if that kind of freedom would give you anxiety, if it would make you feel betrayed or disrespected then I think it would be better to part ways with this person and find someone who experiences love the same way you do, someone who would appreciate your loyalty. You can see in this comment section that there are plenty of people who are happier in a monogamous relationship so it wouldn’t be that hard. It's just a matter of how you express and perceive love.
@@georgiana1754 Thank you a lot for answering. I will keep this in my mind. Have a great day.
It seems to me that most people who "agree" to have an open relationship do so because they are afraid of losing their partner, who wants to be with other people. I'm not saying that it is like this for everybody, but for many people, yes. However, I agree that any kind of relationship brings pain, disappointment but also joy. Trying to sell that a monogamic relationship is the solution to our feeling lonely is stupid and disconnected with reality. Above all, we should focus our energy on getting to know ourselves instead of discussing what kind of relationship is the best!
The reality is only a small percentage of people could pull those relationships off properly.
Yeah. I'll make a Tinder app for emotionally advanced people to have other kinds of relationships
it doesn't mean that monogamy isn't right though, it could also be that the people themselves should communicate better with eachother (something that's even more important in polyamorous relationships)
@@jinjunliu2401 The video is about choices, not judging monogamous people
@@jinjunliu2401 50% of government approved monogamous relationships end in a court order saying monogamy has failed. People might be monogamous ... For a period of time but more often than not monogamy is just a misnomer.
@@jeremymenning56 99.99% of people still have unresolved issues. If we all were to solve those, the answer to what relationship is best would probably become clear, but alas, that's not happening anytime soon. Call me glass half empty but that's just straight up true.
Claustrophobia happens when you think about leaving but feel like it's impossible. When I'm under my blanket at night, even though my body has no free space at all, I know the blanket is easily movable so I can focus on the comfort and warmth it brings me.
Being reminded that we are free to shape our relationships makes them much more enjoyable. Even when we end up choosing what happens to be the classic couple relationship.
I can never relate to this guy’s stance on relationships and it comes up very often in his videos
It’s a philosophy’s take on the source of unhappiness and tackiness around the popular concept of a marriage, it’s not telling you how to live your relationship, rather than that it is showing you where the problems of a relationship lies in, which things originate the problems.
Which stance? That a SINGLE option assumed the right one for everyone is silly and that people should be able to choose what makes sense for them?
You know, it's kinda amusing that THAT is seen as a controversial stance. In any other part of life that'd be seen as slam-dunk obvious.
Eivind Kjorstad i think she mean things like generally saying that its better to devide sex and love, where i would rather say thats pretty asumptious
Lord Grompulus some people can tho, and they can be shamed in this current society when they aren’t doing anything wrong but rather doing something different
Riley Gmx and thats really great, just as learning to love
But knowing every single little thing about love will just make u lost
If couples can do that and are happy with that im all for it
The freest people are the ones we judge
But what if a judge prisoners? 🤔
Polyamory isn't a cure all, but man it's nice to just have it acknowledged as an option.
The school of life teaches us how difficult it is to love, be loved and be in a relationship. This feels like it is making it even harder in so many ways!
I think they're making the point that this is easier for some people.
This works great through honest communication and handling expectations
waterwalker the lack of honesty is what. Makes this hard
@@nhppublishing but this is where the lack of fear and a mutual platform of respect is necessary
I disagree with separation of love & sex union point. If you go around having sex without love, just think of the mental chaos that you end up creating within. It's easier said than done. There are many loopholes here
To me, these ignore a very important truth: relationships must be earned. I agree the template for how these relationships are carried out could use closer examination and re-evaluation, but I don’t think the monogamous side is necessarily what needs to change.
You mean in the sense that relationships are about trust, and trust has to be earned? Yeah that makes sense
I dont think the video is stating there is a problem with monogamy itself as much as how it doesnt seem to work for most people. Any kind of relationship requires work, and can produce problems within if not dealt with honestly and thoughtfully, so would any of the options proposed.
roidroid yes, but also in a sense of learning to accept the other person and putting in the years of time and even the painful arguments (as long as done in a healthy way) that build a relationship.
yop -chan yop -chan I think that the video does a great job pointing out that the cookie cutter version of what a relationship should be just doesn’t work for everyone. However, the video then goes on to describe other possibilities besides monogamy, ignoring the reality that many struggle with “rules” of relationships, but not the ones concerning monogamy. Also, the video presents options that ignore the value of commitment, something integral to relationships.
@@willemmyers217 i disagree with the fact these options are presented without the value of commitment, in fact you yourself said the main problem was how people struggle with rules within relationships rather than monogamy itself. That i agree with you, but all options presented have their own set of rules, rules which imply commitment if that kind of relationship is what you wish to pursue with someone. For exemple if you are to fall in love with someone you had a purely sexual relationship with, then the commitments wouldnt be met. But it isn't your fault either, change happens - a discussion needs to be held, whether or not you and the other party have started to feel the same toward each other. Most of the time it isn't reciprocated, most of the time it's not discussed however because of many reasons too. So yes you are right the rules of relationshipq is what i think people most struggle with and should have been mentionned in the video.
Proud alternative here. 10 years and stronger than ever
When you say "alternative" what lifestyle do you mean, curious?
@@rodneyhigginson9528 hi Rodney. My partner and I have a committed, long term, long distance relationship. A wonderful balance of security, freedom, communication and understanding. When we can't be together we're free to be with others.
@@rebekahwinckle740 10 years, wow that's a long time. You you guys are polyamorous correct? And is your partner a male or female if I may ask?
One of the obstacles in being able to accept this is the social standard dictated by religion. In particular, Christianity (or at least, that's the way it is in my country, the Philippines). It's going to take a long time to upheave the assumption of a monogamous relationship being the natural relationship upheld by "the natural order", as dictated by the religion. And even if people do stop believing that monogamy, as dictated by their religion, is natural, I think that this social norm would still exist in the back of their minds just because of how long it was ingrained into society. Easier said than done, so to speak.
Thank you for showing there are alternatives and that we aren't failures for not achieving the "expected" and "conventional" marriage. 💕
It's funny how there are so many 👎and negative comments ! I truly wonder what triggers that reaction from more people than usual.
It also makes me sad because some arguments I can read here were or are the same as the ones against same-sex marriage, all over again.
@@mischahecter896 that's why I wonder if those reactions are triggered because the proposed alternatives are against a norm.
Just to be clear I'm not saying some arguments are directly against same-sex marriage or homophobic, but they use the same rhetoric in my ears. For example, things along the lines of "This is against men's instinctive nature", or to some extent that monogamous relationship are what "we always did". Those same arguments were used against non-heterosexual couples and, though they raise interesting questions, they are rhetorically incorrect.
But fortunately since the newest comments raised are more mixed and in depth 😊.
This was eye opening, and very much appreciated. Thank you for making this video
Those of you claiming jealousy and immaturity would destroy a poly relationship... You're just telling on yourselves. You're showing everyone how closed minded jealous, and immature you yourselves are!
You can't win either way.
Agree. Someone too jealous and immature to consider the possibility of an atypical relationship likely is too jealous and immature to be very good at a "standard relationship" too.
The traditional relationship model is outdated. My Husband and I have a fantastic relationship, we encourage each other to explore and live individually fulfilling lives outside of our marriage, whether that be further study, individual travel or otherwise. We have a supportive loving relationship which includes two beautiful children. The key to our relationship is kindness and respect - always. There is no room for jealousy when you always put your primary partner first.
Please let me know how a poly relation works without some kind of jealousy. TELL ME. seems like such a urban legend to me lol
The thing is poly people experience jealousy just as everyone else. Mono people are jealous all the time, so are poly people. I think they just have to deal with it, because they think it's their ideal about relationships and they believe giving their partner freedom is a good thing. It doesn't have to be for everyone!
It's not that the jealousy isn't there but there's a reason why you get jealous.
The hard part is to figure out why but it's worth it.
Since two years I'm in an poly arrangement and I've uncovered and healed quite a few hidden traumas while dealing with jealousy and I'm thankful for it.
There's no place to hide from yourself when you try out different arrangements.
I am new to poly experiences but it is a surprisingly good feeling that there’s transparency, and I don’t have to chase away someone who is already important to me, nor stop to get to know new people. But yes, you have to have a healthy relationship with yourself, express consent clearly... it is not all black and white, each situation is different.
Christelle I’m poly (been so for five years) and it’s awesome. My partner isn’t a jealous type, they ask me in-depth questions when they need something answered, we make decisions about partners together and we are a team. :) I think poly can work with or without jealousy because you have to have those same conversations even in a monogamous pairing. It’s just respecting boundaries.
I think the key is to look at your jealousy with compassion and understand why you feel that way. I, for example, noticed I am not jealous of all people. With most other partners I'm totally at peace with. When I do get jealous it's usually because I have some kind of insecurity in that area. It's a sign I don't feel proud about a certain aspect of myself that needs improving.
Also, once you accept your good parts, your bad parts and realise many people find them quite endearing, jealousy doesn't show up much anymore.
Why so many dislike, why people mind are so rigid and why not human mind keep evolving and expand.
Not every relationship you have needs to be romantic/sexual but could still be loving and providing. You could have a significant other, a gym buddy, a writer’s group, and a mentor. :) These are all relationships that may include love that fulfill one’s needs without the complication of sex.
Love it, thought provoking
I usually like your vids but I feel this one makes it sound like a relationship is a spreadsheet and people can just objectively fill it in however they want. On the one hand you’re right that many people are unsatisfied because their expectations of marriage are unrealistic, on the other hand most people can’t compartmentalise in the way you’re suggesting. Expecting a partner to do so is usually just way of abdicating the responsibility to emotionally support them. Resentment & jealousy don’t have an on/off switch, which I suspect is why monogamy will remain an enduring model for relationships... and why so many poly couples have this creepy gleam in their eye like they want to rip each other’s throats out while they’re smiling and talking about “compersion”. Don’t get me wrong, I want it to work, but usually you could cut the tension with a switchblade lol
Yes, not to mention people want ideals. This fits with the times we live in. In the fantasy where we compartmentalize, we also fantasize that we abolish problems. Problems such as sometimes having a desire for another person, a dissatisfaction with some aspect of your partner, a fear of missing out / making choices and thereby excluding other possibilities. We want it all these days, and we don't want any difficulty, any problem, any frustration. Of course all these other forms of relationships bring with them their own problems, as people will probably soon discover.
@@jackdawcaw4514 Very well said. One thing that I never see cropping up in videos discussing this topic is how none of these alternatives are actually new, and in fact very closely related to the dominating societal model, which means one can't just embrace a diverging model and expect to be given a pass by the largely monogamous society. I also get the impression that the monogamous relationship model is always presented as being unaffected by the passage of time and by the various cultures that adopted it.
If your partner isn't your biggest fan and vice versa you are in the wrong relationship.
Society is failing to handle relationships BECAUSE we are opening up to making them more complicated and because marriage is outmoded.
I love love love this! Especially because, based on some of his lectures, I had assumed that ADB was anti-relationship alternatives. Pleasantly surprised. The comments make me LOL though. People are very threatened by the idea that monogamy doesn’t work for some - and I’d argue, most - people. My life is full of polyamorous people and their relationships all seem just as good, if not downright better than the mono relationships in my life. I think this is because poly relationships take a TON of maturity, mutual respect, and honest communication. They’re not for everyone, but I think they’re a potential antidote to codependency and partner resentment. And yes, some poly people get jealous, but people get jealous of their partners even when they’re monogamous, so I don’t find that argument particularly compelling. We should not put so many demands on one human being , it’s an arrangement that is destined to make people miserable, and I’m glad a platform as far-reaching as SOL is taking the time and consideration to acknowledge these things. Ending with an ironic anecdote:
I once suggested to my older brother that he consider non-monogamy, as he has cheated on every girlfriend he has ever had. His response? “I could never do that.” I guess nonmonogamy is only ok if you’re lying about it and betraying someone in the process?
CJ Gemini Tarot it’s just not working.
I completely agree with you 😊
@@mangolina1 what?
Why does even mentioning non-monogamy anger so many people?
Renouf For some people it may be a religious/cultural thing...but I also think for many people it’s because they don’t want to admit that they’re also dissatisfied with monogamy. The anxiety of accountability: once you realize there’s an issue or some thing making you unhappy, then you have to rearrange your life to address it. And I think for some people non monogamy is a bridge too far. Just my take on it.
To a greater extent than we perhaps realise, when it comes to what sort of relationships
we are allowed to have, our societies present us with a menu with only a single option on
it: The Monogamous, Cohabiting Romantic Relationship, usually served with a Side Order of Children.
To be considered remotely normal, we are meant to develop overwhelming emotional and sexual
feelings for one very special person, who will then become a combination of our best
friend, sole sexual partner, co-parent, business associate, therapist, travel companion, property
co-manager, kindergarten teacher and soulmate - and with whom we will live exclusively
in one house, in one bed, for many decades, in substantial harmony and with an active
tolerance for each other’s foibles and ongoing desire for their evolving appearance, till
death do us part. But what is striking, for an arrangement supposed
to be entirely normal, is just how many people cannot abide by its rules. At least half flunk
completely, and a substantial portion muddle along in quiet desperation. At best, only
around 15% of the population admit to being totally satisfied, a thought-inducingly low
figure for a menu option vigorously claiming universal validity.
In our societies, those who can’t get on with Romantic Monogamous Marriage are quickly
diagnosed as suffering from a variety of psychological disorders: fear of intimacy, clinginess, sexual
addiction, frigidity, boundary issues, self-sabotage, childhood trauma etc. We powerfully imply
that someone might be psychologically ill if they don’t want to keep having sex exclusively
with the same partner, or seek to spend every other weekend apart or want to develop a close
friendship elsewhere.
But there might be another approach, this one drawn from the pioneering work of advocates
of gay rights, namely that any taste or proclivity must by definition be acceptable and non-pathological,
except in so far as it might hurt the unwilling or unconsenting. From this perspective, while
many ways of life might be different to society’s presently preferred option, it cannot be right
to judge, correct, amend and seek to re-educate all those attracted to them.
With this in mind, the menu of love we should use starts to look very different. Aside from
Romantic Monogamy, all kinds of alternative ways of living could be devised, including
(to kick-start a list): The Parenting Relationship A union oriented
first and foremost towards the well-being of children, where parents are free to form
unions with other parties, once the welfare and security of off-spring are assured.
The Separate Spheres Relationship A union which understands that no two people should
ever be expected to be in total proximity night after night - and respects the role
of certain kinds of privacy in contributing to emotional well-being and a robust sense
of self. The Yearly Renegotiated Relationship A union
which is accepted by both parties as having only a one-year assured lifespan, after which
it must be re-negotiated but without any presumption that it will necessarily be so or resentment
if it is not - a source of insecurity with surprisingly fruitful and aphrodisiacal side-effects.
The Love-or-Sex Union A union which recognises the difficulty of fusing love and sex in one
couple, and makes the possibility of dividing the two, and seeking fulfilment from alternative
sources, non-tragic, unshameful and predictable. In love, we accept an absence of choice that
would be intolerable in other areas of life. We consent to wearing a uniform that cannot
possibly fit our varied shapes, and without daring to make even minor moves to assemble
our own wardrobe. All our collective energies go into creating astonishing varieties of
foods, machines and entertainments, while the entity that dominates our lives - our
relationships - continue in a format more or less unchanged for the last 250 years.
It would be a genuine liberation if, whenever a new couple came together, it was assumed
that they almost certainly would not go along with the romantic monogamous template, and
that the onus was therefore on them to discuss - up front, in good faith and without insult
- the arrangements that would ideally satisfy their natures. Extra marks would be awarded
for innovation and out-of-the-box schemes - while protestations of satisfaction at
the standard model would raise eyebrows. Once upon a time, male offspring of the European
upper classes had only two career options: to join the army or to join the church. Such
narrow-mindedness was eventually dismissed as evident nonsense and eradicated, and the
average citizen of a developed country now has at least 4,000 job options to choose from.
We should strive for a comparable expansion of our menus of love. We are not so much bad
at relationships, as unable - presently - to understand our needs without shame,
to stick up politely for what makes us content, and to invent practical arrangements that
could stand a chance of honouring our complex emotional reality.
At least emotional polyamory (having many close people, even without romance) is so beneficial personally, relationship-wise and so on.
Alive& thinking blog “emotional polyamory” - close ppl w/o romance, that just sounds like close friendships which yea I agree that everyone should have that. Your partner shouldn’t be you’re only close relationship aside from family
@@GlamGoddes101 yeah, that's what I meant. It really is the minimum. Sex is not that important as emotional connections to people.
over the past few years I've been learning that what I want and need isn't accepted by a large majority of people. While I myself have complete confidence that I know what want, it's absolutely something I never talk about with my friends or family. People can be very open minded and still insist that I just want to cheat, etc. Which is always beyond insulting. I have always made sure any romantic partner knows who I am and what I feel before we start dating. Because being open and honest is key to any relationship.
Omg this might be my favourite RUclips video of all time✨👏
Yay more relationships I'll never have
it’s sad to see all these close minded people in the comment. Some people said this video makes them angry? don’t you think you need to figure out why this makes you angry? Aren’t you curious about yourself? People are so scared to figure out themselves. Instead they are sheep who are trying so hard to be what they are told they should be. They believe it so much that they forget how to be themselves. Being selfish is not being self centered. You need to take care of yourself before you can take care of anyone else. The reason why this world is so fucked up right now is because everyone is trying to be in others’ business. Because self exploration and self growth is too difficult and painful. Some may say. Oh I don’t need to change. I’m comfortable. That’s so scary to me when people think like that.