Child me would have my brain absolutely melted at the concept of having a real life pilot of both the Apache and Kiowa be able to record videos of them flying the digital equivalent and giving advice on how to do it.
He's also had a build of the KW for a little while now. But if I was a former pilot of a somewhat obscure aircraft and my favorite game made a hyper-accurate recreation of my aircraft I would go nuts!
I've never melted the vinyl cover for the 144, because it was left on and ground power was applied for maintenance reasons, said no crew chief, ever... :) APR-39 "I am the Wizard of Wor"
I never melted a cover on the discoball on the Blackhawk. Ours were way closer to the disc though, so it had to come off. They took the APR-39 picks off the 58? Huh...On the 60, we ran both, EOM's, AVR-2B, and APR-39 pucks. Was the 58 to small for radar guided missiles?
Gotta say the entire time I’ve played DCS I’ve enjoyed the Huey the most because of the lack of really any modern tech making flying easier. The Kiowa might be my new favorite because it’s a great mix of modern tech, but also a lack of too much pilot comfort/ease of use like the Apache has. I appreciate you speaking so highly of the Kiowa for so long because you’re the reason I bought this module.
Hey Casmos! Just wanted to say I finally worked out the issue with my area track and point track functionality, and I feel like an idiot! hah. When you asked me about manual mode you were not talking about the release type. You meant the tracking mode in the MMS. All works great now. REALLY enjoying this bird.
Between Casmo’s videos, and the training provided by Polychop I would say this has been the best module released. The F-4 is close to it but I am not as familiar with that one yet. Thanks Casmo.
Maintaining that ALQ was an epic pain in the ass! Seeing as it was directly in the exhaust path from the engine . . .it was absolutely coated in sooty residue after EVERY mission! Trying to get it cleaned and fully operational was well . . . a challenge!
Thank you casmonfor getting polychop to tone down the airbags on the 58 Just like the admiral said in the movie hot shots I have taken off 140 times but yet have not landed successfully once 😃😃
6 месяцев назад+5
do you think there is one clear winner as far as DCS is concerned between the variants? We all know that EW systems in DCS are probably the most game-ified element simply because nobody knows how they work and if they do know they wont say for obvious reasons, so im assuming the more modern variant with the CMWS will just default to being the standard on most servers unless you play a campaign set in the earlier years where they were using the IR Jammer
Interesting to see that the IR jammer and RWR are old school while those MWS with flares and laser detector are new tech. I guess there is the weight aspect of deinstalling the IR jammer and rely on flares. I thought it would be nice having all passive defences for survivability
Passive IR stuff is more or less useless in a modern threat environment and they were really more suited for early IR MANPADs. I'm not military or an electrical engineer so I don't know all the details. But the systems were replaced for a reason
Various aircraft in our inventory do maintain both flares and IRCM turrets, though it makes me wonder what significant technical differences exist between the older and newer gen systems are. Maybe we’ll learn in 50 years when something gets declassed.
Got my ‘Hook pre ordered. As an Ex 47 FE, I can’t wait to see how this turns out. If they ever did a “Guns a Go Go” mod I could finally die in peace. +1
ASE good stuff. Casmo, one of these days, you'll just be flying the KW havin good multiplay game times then all of the sudden you will hear: "WIFE WIFE, 6 O' CLOCK, TRACKING."
This was great! I was just wondering how the old IR jammer system turned on. Now I just need to learn buddy lasing (specifically me locking onto others laser from a LOAL).
Deltas were just being introduced when I ETS'd as 58A crew chief. I always wondered how the Disco Balls worked and if they were at all effective? Did IR seaker tech just get too sophisticated to be fooled by them and that's why they're not used? Our unit, 229th AHB was slated to get them so we had one come in for demo flight and familiarization just before I left. Pretty cool upgrade, at the time! I miss those aircraft!
The ALQ-144 worked very well against early missiles, and upgrades work against newer ones, but now that everything's staring seekers and FPAs and whatnot it's practically useless. It relied mostly on how good intelligence was; if we knew how the enemy's IR seekers worked, we could program and refit jammers to basically obsolete them.
Now we're talking Caz, I've still not picked thus up due to the recent release of HB's iconic F-4E, which I'm loving at the min ❤ But the more I see this polychop module, the more I will be purchasing it. As I can see using the Kiowa in missions where yiu need to hug the land scape, pick though man pass, AAA and Sam, to perform a sneaky peaky on targets lazer them over the tree line, and either destroy these targets yourself or call in the Apache or even a air strike!!!! Small drug cattle missions like in flight of the Apache or attacking Military or civillian convoys after to prevent an attack, or hijacking and a hijacking scenario you need to follow or get the info to stop targets before or after they've completed their own objectives. A Califorina police livery would be nice. So you can chase offenders, cars, trucks, and vans through Vegas or any of the other deseet map cities, or across the mountains, using any of the maps. Nice 👍 Pollychop has it out of the park when it comes to this chopper.👊🙏👏👏👏👏👏
Weird how the army added another set for IR/Laser, but the Navy/Marines just integrated it into the APR-39 using the AAR-47. The Synthetic voice gave similar callouts to what we had, but I realize how it actually works is classified. I am actually surprised it's this correct.
This voice sounds like one of those creepy secret service numbers transmitters 😅 the only thing that scared me more in this bird was the jumpscare when hitting the ground a little too hard 😵💫
I am very interested in getting into this game. I play a lot of war thunder but obviously this is way more complicated. Other than watching videos is there anything to do to learn about how it works?
The 'how' for the ALQ-144, or at least the basics, are public. It's a 'hot brick' jammer - a heated silicon carbide block or cesium arc lamp with a big old mechanical shutter that modulates the output. That shutter, and its spin rate, are the secret squirrel bits, as well as further upgrades that defeated rosette and staring scanning techniques, but the principle is interesting - it's literally a heated block. ALQ-144s worked best against old spin-scan and conical-scan MANPADS and IR missiles, WHEN it was programmed and fitted correctly. Intelligence was particularly important, as knowing the spin frequency and seeker design of an enemy missile could invalidate it pretty thoroughly.
I'm pretty sure it works on the Su-25 T, so it should also work on the Kiowa. In theory this type of IRCM is designed to work against missiles with rotating aperture seeker, so older ones. This is probably not modelled in depth in DCS, I've seen a video of it working against more modern missiles too.
@@CasmoTV I just like the look of the other skid. I remember first seeing that demo at Ft Rucker in 83 on the parade field in front of HQ. The pilots brought it to a hover while the crew chief extended the gear.
@@RandomKhajiit from what I researched the apr39 v1 is from the 70s but the an/apr39A v1 is I think a post cold war upgrade. The one the Kiowa has has sam type classification wheras the older apr39 you could tell due to an older scope display with strobe indicators similar to what vietnam era apr25's had on fixed wing aircraft.
I guess you can't talk about specs, since it is on other aircraft also. I figured you could talk more about this one now that it is not used anymore, but if the CMWS and IR systems are on other aircraft it would be the same.
Have someone tryed the Kiowa in the Syria map? In the Persia map it works fine for me, but in the Syria map the Kiowa only flip over to the right side when start from the ground like it should be a storm or something...
@@baardk2 After flying for a few hours from both my homemade FARP and from Ramat David, I have had no issues at all with the 58D. You may need to check your winds to make sure your nose is facing into the wind when you start up or, check the calibration of your joystick. I use a Saitek X-56 Rhino with the lightest spring installed and a zip tie to compress it a little further to make it even lighter, and I have no problems at all from pick, to hover, to transition to forward flight, cruise, transition to hover, hover taxi, and landing. Also check to make sure that another axis is not assigned to your cyclic. Like your rudder pedals or if you have a split throttle one of them could be sharing a cyclic axis with your stick.
@@MONARCH1985 Yea, I posed my question very, VERY poorly. I more meant, 'would have a proactive system like the IR jammer be better than a reactive system such as flares used after detection by the CMWS. I'm aware the CMWS is not itself any type of jammer...
Is there a list of phrases that the apr39 uses to help understand wtf it's saying? The only thing I can understand is "radar searching". Practically everything else sounds like gibberish.
SA = Surface to Air missile radar. Usually announced as "SA SA-2 Tracking" . Yes, it repeats the "SA". As Casmo said, the numerical announcement depends on the program for the missile type/size/range... "Zoo Zoo" = Anti-aircraft gun associated radar. As for a complete list; I am sure there is one out there if you are a websearch wizard.
Maybe, but I would not rely on it. I know the Su-25T also has an IR jammer on it but nobody talks about the missiles that do not hit and thus its success ratio is unknown even after all these years and everybody having it.
JiveTurkey aka SubBrief has the same issue with Cold Waters and submarines. He actually got a notice from the Navy reminding him to be careful about what he was talking about. Of course, War Thunder people know all about this.
Only thing killing this in DCS is the limited quantity of weapons it can carry. A jester type mod to help with target spotting woulda been sweet as well
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
I have this slightly impression, due to the sheer number of videos being published, that Casmo is having a blast with the Kiowa.
Child me would have my brain absolutely melted at the concept of having a real life pilot of both the Apache and Kiowa be able to record videos of them flying the digital equivalent and giving advice on how to do it.
He's also had a build of the KW for a little while now.
But if I was a former pilot of a somewhat obscure aircraft and my favorite game made a hyper-accurate recreation of my aircraft I would go nuts!
Not only him!
@1:45 "It's a disco ball for IR missiles. it makes the missiles think they're in an 80's dance party and get stuck doing The Worm."
Exactly
I've never melted the vinyl cover for the 144, because it was left on and ground power was applied for maintenance reasons, said no crew chief, ever... :) APR-39 "I am the Wizard of Wor"
I never melted a cover on the discoball on the Blackhawk. Ours were way closer to the disc though, so it had to come off.
They took the APR-39 picks off the 58? Huh...On the 60, we ran both, EOM's, AVR-2B, and APR-39 pucks. Was the 58 to small for radar guided missiles?
Thanks for all of the hard work on these videos man i really appreciate it, it is nice to have a SME making this kind of stuff!
Gotta say the entire time I’ve played DCS I’ve enjoyed the Huey the most because of the lack of really any modern tech making flying easier. The Kiowa might be my new favorite because it’s a great mix of modern tech, but also a lack of too much pilot comfort/ease of use like the Apache has. I appreciate you speaking so highly of the Kiowa for so long because you’re the reason I bought this module.
KWs seemed to have gotten a Missile Warning System way later compared to other helicopters in the U.S. Military.
They never wanted to spend money on us
Hey Casmos! Just wanted to say I finally worked out the issue with my area track and point track functionality, and I feel like an idiot! hah. When you asked me about manual mode you were not talking about the release type. You meant the tracking mode in the MMS. All works great now. REALLY enjoying this bird.
Between Casmo’s videos, and the training provided by Polychop I would say this has been the best module released. The F-4 is close to it but I am not as familiar with that one yet. Thanks Casmo.
Maintaining that ALQ was an epic pain in the ass! Seeing as it was directly in the exhaust path from the engine . . .it was absolutely coated in sooty residue after EVERY mission! Trying to get it cleaned and fully operational was well . . . a challenge!
Thank you casmonfor getting polychop to tone down the airbags on the 58
Just like the admiral said in the movie hot shots I have taken off 140 times but yet have not landed successfully once
😃😃
do you think there is one clear winner as far as DCS is concerned between the variants? We all know that EW systems in DCS are probably the most game-ified element simply because nobody knows how they work and if they do know they wont say for obvious reasons, so im assuming the more modern variant with the CMWS will just default to being the standard on most servers unless you play a campaign set in the earlier years where they were using the IR Jammer
Interesting to see that the IR jammer and RWR are old school while those MWS with flares and laser detector are new tech. I guess there is the weight aspect of deinstalling the IR jammer and rely on flares. I thought it would be nice having all passive defences for survivability
Passive IR stuff is more or less useless in a modern threat environment and they were really more suited for early IR MANPADs. I'm not military or an electrical engineer so I don't know all the details. But the systems were replaced for a reason
Various aircraft in our inventory do maintain both flares and IRCM turrets, though it makes me wonder what significant technical differences exist between the older and newer gen systems are. Maybe we’ll learn in 50 years when something gets declassed.
@@ilovetomcats just check warthunder forum ;)
Got my ‘Hook pre ordered. As an Ex 47 FE, I can’t wait to see how this turns out. If they ever did a “Guns a Go Go” mod I could finally die in peace. +1
ASE good stuff. Casmo, one of these days, you'll just be flying the KW havin good multiplay game times then all of the sudden you will hear: "WIFE WIFE, 6 O' CLOCK, TRACKING."
I love the APR's Voice :)
You can probably do the robot dance really well.
Right up until you hear “radar, tracking” IRL. 😬
Thinking about hearing that APR voice while preparing to set off on a potentially dangerous sortie, it wouldn't give me much reassurance lol
This was great! I was just wondering how the old IR jammer system turned on. Now I just need to learn buddy lasing (specifically me locking onto others laser from a LOAL).
Deltas were just being introduced when I ETS'd as 58A crew chief. I always wondered how the Disco Balls worked and if they were at all effective? Did IR seaker tech just get too sophisticated to be fooled by them and that's why they're not used?
Our unit, 229th AHB was slated to get them so we had one come in for demo flight and familiarization just before I left. Pretty cool upgrade, at the time!
I miss those aircraft!
The ALQ-144 worked very well against early missiles, and upgrades work against newer ones, but now that everything's staring seekers and FPAs and whatnot it's practically useless. It relied mostly on how good intelligence was; if we knew how the enemy's IR seekers worked, we could program and refit jammers to basically obsolete them.
Now we're talking Caz, I've still not picked thus up due to the recent release of HB's iconic F-4E, which I'm loving at the min ❤
But the more I see this polychop module, the more I will be purchasing it. As I can see using the Kiowa in missions where yiu need to hug the land scape, pick though man pass, AAA and Sam, to perform a sneaky peaky on targets lazer them over the tree line, and either destroy these targets yourself or call in the Apache or even a air strike!!!!
Small drug cattle missions like in flight of the Apache or attacking
Military or civillian convoys after to prevent an attack, or hijacking and a hijacking scenario you need to follow or get the info to stop targets before or after they've completed their own objectives. A Califorina police livery would be nice. So you can chase offenders, cars, trucks, and vans through Vegas or any of the other deseet map cities, or across the mountains, using any of the maps. Nice 👍
Pollychop has it out of the park when it comes to this chopper.👊🙏👏👏👏👏👏
This thing ROCKS.
Weird how the army added another set for IR/Laser, but the Navy/Marines just integrated it into the APR-39 using the AAR-47. The Synthetic voice gave similar callouts to what we had, but I realize how it actually works is classified. I am actually surprised it's this correct.
This voice sounds like one of those creepy secret service numbers transmitters 😅 the only thing that scared me more in this bird was the jumpscare when hitting the ground a little too hard 😵💫
so when is the APR 39 getting patched to also say “I am the greatest!” ?
Hi! When CMWS was introduced in Afghanistan? I read in the net that it was about 2010. Is it true?
I really want to use this helicopter somewhat realistically, so what kind of missions did these fly?
I am very interested in getting into this game. I play a lot of war thunder but obviously this is way more complicated. Other than watching videos is there anything to do to learn about how it works?
I am collecting get out of jail free cards for Casmo. Just in case we need them for him.
Let's hear it for Old Crows ;-)
The 'how' for the ALQ-144, or at least the basics, are public. It's a 'hot brick' jammer - a heated silicon carbide block or cesium arc lamp with a big old mechanical shutter that modulates the output. That shutter, and its spin rate, are the secret squirrel bits, as well as further upgrades that defeated rosette and staring scanning techniques, but the principle is interesting - it's literally a heated block. ALQ-144s worked best against old spin-scan and conical-scan MANPADS and IR missiles, WHEN it was programmed and fitted correctly. Intelligence was particularly important, as knowing the spin frequency and seeker design of an enemy missile could invalidate it pretty thoroughly.
A test of the IRCM would be nice. Is it really lowering the chance of getting hit by manpads and other IR sams?
I'm pretty sure it works on the Su-25 T, so it should also work on the Kiowa. In theory this type of IRCM is designed to work against missiles with rotating aperture seeker, so older ones. This is probably not modelled in depth in DCS, I've seen a video of it working against more modern missiles too.
Hoping they change the way you can select this gear and add it to the rearm F8, F1 area especially the skids
I mean this isn’t stuff you would swap at the FARP but I get it from the standpoint of servers having things set up.
@@CasmoTV I just like the look of the other skid. I remember first seeing that demo at Ft Rucker in 83 on the parade field in front of HQ. The pilots brought it to a hover while the crew chief extended the gear.
lol, who put the HAL9000 voice in the RWR?
Damned APR-39 sounds like Paulie's robot from Rocky IV.
Do the system voices sound robotic so as to not confuse the pilots with actual radio traffic?
No, its because the RWR being used in this Kiowa is a model from the 70s and voice synthesizers weren't very advanced back then.
@@RandomKhajiit from what I researched the apr39 v1 is from the 70s but the an/apr39A v1 is I think a post cold war upgrade. The one the Kiowa has has sam type classification wheras the older apr39 you could tell due to an older scope display with strobe indicators similar to what vietnam era apr25's had on fixed wing aircraft.
I guess you can't talk about specs, since it is on other aircraft also. I figured you could talk more about this one now that it is not used anymore, but if the CMWS and IR systems are on other aircraft it would be the same.
Have someone tryed the Kiowa in the Syria map? In the Persia map it works fine for me, but in the Syria map the Kiowa only flip over to the right side when start from the ground like it should be a storm or something...
I've not tried it on the Syria map but I do know that it works fine on the Sinai Map. I'll test and let you know.
@@ImpendingJoker thanks 🙂
I've only flown on syria, no issues at all.
@@ericcraft9856 Thanks :) I dont know why its happening. But I will try to find out now that I know its not a bug in the game 🙂
@@baardk2 After flying for a few hours from both my homemade FARP and from Ramat David, I have had no issues at all with the 58D. You may need to check your winds to make sure your nose is facing into the wind when you start up or, check the calibration of your joystick. I use a Saitek X-56 Rhino with the lightest spring installed and a zip tie to compress it a little further to make it even lighter, and I have no problems at all from pick, to hover, to transition to forward flight, cruise, transition to hover, hover taxi, and landing. Also check to make sure that another axis is not assigned to your cyclic. Like your rudder pedals or if you have a split throttle one of them could be sharing a cyclic axis with your stick.
Great looking helicopter. I wish these modules were not so expeisive.
Casmo,
Are you allowed to say which was operationally more effective against IR threats, the IR Jammer or the CMWS birds? Just curious.
Well one came after the other… I’ll let you think on that 🫡
@@CasmoTV touché, fingers faster than brain today.
CMWS isn’t a jammer, it’s just a warning system that tells the pilot the threat exists. It doesn’t do anything to the threat itself
@@MONARCH1985 Yea, I posed my question very, VERY poorly. I more meant, 'would have a proactive system like the IR jammer be better than a reactive system such as flares used after detection by the CMWS. I'm aware the CMWS is not itself any type of jammer...
Is there a list of phrases that the apr39 uses to help understand wtf it's saying? The only thing I can understand is "radar searching". Practically everything else sounds like gibberish.
To think that the apr39a v1 is still in use on uh60m and ch47f......
SA = Surface to Air missile radar. Usually announced as "SA SA-2 Tracking" . Yes, it repeats the "SA". As Casmo said, the numerical announcement depends on the program for the missile type/size/range... "Zoo Zoo" = Anti-aircraft gun associated radar. As for a complete list; I am sure there is one out there if you are a websearch wizard.
The real question is does the IR jammer actually work in DCS lol?
Maybe, but I would not rely on it. I know the Su-25T also has an IR jammer on it but nobody talks about the missiles that do not hit and thus its success ratio is unknown even after all these years and everybody having it.
Imagine you going a jail just because you talked about a feature that relates to DCS a little bit too much, crazy.
its described how it works on wikipedia but better to be safe anyway lol
To have a full fidelity module the aircraft has to be declassified first!
@@Halozocker104 I know, that’s why we can’t have zulu cobra or littlebird
@@tangle60r or the newer apache 🥲
JiveTurkey aka SubBrief has the same issue with Cold Waters and submarines. He actually got a notice from the Navy reminding him to be careful about what he was talking about.
Of course, War Thunder people know all about this.
I have been calling the APR 39 "Peter Frampton" for the past two days now, lol
THATS funny
See, War Thunder community? It totally is possible to talk about a game without giving away national defence secrets! Who knew?! 😂
Did Stephen Hawking do the audio for the APR-39? 😂 😊
Nope, he stole the audio from the APR-39 to communicate.
Only thing killing this in DCS is the limited quantity of weapons it can carry. A jester type mod to help with target spotting woulda been sweet as well
English is not my mother tongue, and understanding that robotic voice is very difficult, 😢
Hard for the best of us sometimes.
English is my mother tongue and it is STILL hard to understand that thing!
🙂👌
Yeah avoid all EWO topics. In the nuke business, its called Emergency War Order.
In the Army, its Electronic Warfare Officer