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Dallyn began hearing anti accusations on his mission, after many years of studying he chose to stay
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2024
- #lds #mormon #comeback
"When I compared what I heard from the antagonistic point of view to what I saw in my wife or my children or my parents or my brothers or in my bishopric or the relief society presidency. When I compared what everyone was saying on the antagonistic side of the coin to everything I saw in real life. It didn't make sense .They were saying such terrible, horrible things, but I'm like everything I'm seeing is good. I'm not seeing perfection. But everywhere I look, I look at all my brothers and they don't cast stones. They don't teach to be against any group of people or anything. They're just loving and kind with their fair share of mistakes and with their fair share of issues."
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I am convinced Joseph smith was running to catch up to the calling, gifts, and commandments he was given.. He was a 24 year old boy building the restored gospel jet plane while it was leaving the runway. How do you go from a barely literate farm boy to being handed keys to christs church by Peter James and John Without making mistakes. Talk about starting out of your depth. Of course he made mistakes in his personal life professional life and spiritual life. Remember Moroni told him after 3 attempts. He was on his last chance for receiving the plates. He was probably constantly overwhelmed. You can see anytime he meddled in secular affairs his immaturity shone through. This lends even greater witness that he was gods mouthpiece on earth.
The reason I am so fond of this church is because I have a deep and expanding relationship with the savior and I can find spiritual answers to overcome physical challenges. Every anti Mormon piece of literature I’ve ever seen sells me a case of physical problems without offering any sort of solutions. In the name of fairness?
Give me a break.
love this
There's a reason Ashly pinned this. What a fabulous observation. Mic Drop.
An anti-mormon is a wrascally rabbit !
Wow!! What an incredible way of looking 👀 at this. Fantastic job. Great 👍 way of explaining it. Thanks 😊
Oh my goodness! This episode was one that just validated everything I know, believe, love about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I too have never had a problem with polygamy because my Great Grandfather was one and I have been blessed with fabulous family members because of it. Thank you Dallyn for your faith and experiences and to you Ashley for all you do.
Awesome story! I agree with Dallyn that the healthiest way to practice the LDS faith is to be open snd honest about its history. As Ashly said, history is messy. And Joseph Smith probably made a few mistakes after being commanded to implement polygamy. But who wouldn't have???
I think we can not talk about polygamy with out mentioning: "The Law of Adoption". These two "laws" were practiced hand by hand. You can tell Joseph Smith practiced a polygamy very influenced by The Law of Adoption, contrary to the other two or three presidents after him. The main purpose of Joseph Smith Polygamy/Law of Adoption was to 1) link the families for the after life, 2)have children born into the conven. Do you know that Joseph didn't fathered any biological children with any of those women?, Do you know that some of those women never saw him again?. I found the other day the story about an 54 yrs old single woman that got sealed to Joseph just to "be part of the family of God" " even if she 'becomes an angel in the after life", yea she never saw/treated him as "husband", she didn't even saw him like a husband for the after life, it seems like they were just trying to get sealed to him to have a link to the "family of God", since they were first generation in the church and they didn't have Family History to get sealed to their own family relatives. Do you know that after Joseph Smith dead multiple women keep getting sealed to him, even some men! all of them were spiritual unions influenced by The Law of Adoption. (Hopefully all of this makes sense, English is my 3rd language).
To some degree you are right about the law of adoption. In other cases, it was the same as the way Brigham Young practiced it. Both practices are correct and both links individuals to a family. Smith practiced both types, as some of the women were never married.
My husband and I were talking about this the other day too. Yes!❤
If English is your 3rd language, you've done astoundingly well! !
Love the new edit style - straight into it. No preamble. Really grateful for everyone at CBP for making another faith promoting podcast episode of stuff that we as a people still don’t have honest, frank conversations about as part of our church culture. A lot of this stuff isn’t anti, it’s our factual history. And to persecute members, even ex communicate, is harmful and destructive to a lot of honest, faithful members asking sincere questions about things we were never taught at church and, quite frankly, couldn’t even have an honest conversation about at now without people thinking you’re an anti.
Where this podcast shines and diverges from the toxic world of antis, is people cover the same ground as antis but come out stronger because of it. Grateful for Dallyn’s testimony 😎🤙🏼👍🏼
God helps us through our issues with people in the Church if we'll work with Him and let Him Instruct us, and inform us, and comfort us.
I don't find a need to tie up the time at Church away from the basic principles and ordinances of The Gospel. Besides we had a manifesto so to me it's all moot. Don't we believe in modern Prophets and Apostles?
Matthew 10: 40
I don't know if it is a cultural thing but as an African, I don't think polygamy in the church sometime ago should make anyone leave the church. If there are other questions, I probably will understand ... but polygamy, that shouldn't be a reason to leave the restored gospel.
As an African, there are other doctrines that might be more concerning to you. You should look up the Curse of Cain if you haven’t already.
@@BMtodaP
*_ooooo "the curse of Cain."_*
That argument was debunked at least 100 years ago, but anti-mormins keep trotting that pony out as if it's brand new.
LOL !
@@rconger24 I was taught this doctrine my whole life, including in a BYU religion class. If you mean ‘debunked’ as in it’s complete racist nonsense, then I couldn’t agree more.
@@rconger24 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curses_of_Cain_and_Ham_and_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints
Your podcasts are so wonderful!! Great job you two! Kennewick, WA appreciates ya 😊
Haha, we lived in Richland, Kennewick East for 7 years. What a lovely group of The Saints!
I joined the church at 16. I didn’t not come from a religious family. I’m 70 now and I can honestly say my testimony has never wavered. My faith in myself has. I haven’t always agreed with some bishops or RS presidents. One time when I was going through an especially tough time and needed help from the church, longer than I wanted, I had a bishop tell me he did not care if I ended up on a street corner. Those were his exact words. He literally paid $2000 to get me out of his ward and into a new apartment. Never once did I blame the church for this man’s unkind actions. He was a new bishop and had not been in that role before. I didn’t have really great feelings toward him as you can imagine. I often wonder if his heart had changed by the time his calling was up. He works for the church too. But I can’t blame people for being bitter for having negative experiences. It can be hard.
As I watch these podcasts I sometimes wonder if I’m sort of a freak. I’ve never had a desire to read the CES letter. I know questionable things have happened in our church history. My biggest hurdle to becoming baptized was blacks and the priesthood. I just did not understand that. But I had faith that things would work out. And 8 years after I joined the church it did. Blacks received the priesthood. But other problems in our history just don’t bother me. I don’t care. I figure it will all be explained one day. Does anyone else feel like that or am I just weird?
Also please know I am in no way judging or criticizing those who do struggle with these things. I love hearing these stories. It helps build my faith in know Heavenly Father loves all his children no matter what.
I feel exactly the same as you, the problems in church history do not bother me. And, I also love watching this podcast and hearing everyone's stories. So faith promoting. Thank you!
If you are "weird" then so am I. I could have written what you did. With some specific changes to how a few leaders have treated me----my feelings are the same as yours. My testimony is unshaken.
Why should you feel like a "freak?" Why should any of us go and smell a *_stinking dead rat? much less eat it!_* ?? Why should any of us listen to anyone who will not pray for The leaders of The Church? So we can become "intellectual?" Data and facts do not add up to *wisdom.* That's just an appearance for joining the great and spacious building. Do we believe what Jesus left us in the scriptures? We recieve Jesus and Heavenly Father by recieving His designated servants. This repeats in many places in The New Testament (Matthew 10: 40) as well as Doctrine and Covenants (Section 84: 35-38) .
And we cannot reach perfection in Christ without His Church. Anyone who thinks he can is fooling himself. Neither The New Testament nor the scriptures at large support it.
I’ve often said the same thing. Even if the restoration wasn’t true, I’m still better off living by the commandments and gospel precepts than not.
Peace and Joy!
Hosannahs!!
I grew up with Dallyn’s family!!! I had a crush on a couple of his brothers 😂😂 What an awesome surprise to see him on the pod! 😍
Awesome interview!!!❤😊Thank you.❤🎉😊
Polygamy also means that men took stewardship over other women who needed to be cared for. We have such a limited understanding of polygamy. Doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith. Elder Uchtdorf is so wise to share that with us. If we study the gospel with faith and listen to the spirit we will always receive truth. Regarding the riches the church has is pretty simple. The church does everything for us, God's children. To build up the kingdom of God. The church does so much good for the whole world. ❤️
Thanks Dallyn and Ashley. I love these positive, faith-filed discussions. The more I learn about Joseph Smith, the greater appreciation for him and our loving Savior. All my love!
Such an awesome conversation!
Thank you! ❤️☀️
I love how you are strengthening faith, because there’s so much tearing down faith out there.
God bless you.
The point he makes that we hold onto spiritual experiences in the tough times is so true. I have been through a lot with church leaders, hurt, and still hurt. But the experiences I had I hold onto because I know what I felt, what the Lord did for me. Yes, I need to feel this now like king Benjamin said, but until then, I’ll hold on.
13:26
"It's so easy to tear down... To be a critic is the easiest thing in the world." Isn't that the truth? And later, at 19:16, "I think the reason people stay in the Church is because they've had powerful experiences with the Spirit." This rings so true with me, and like this good brother, is what in the end keeps me going, keeps me anchored and actively striving along the path toward the "Tree" as a member of this Church. Whether it's never having had them or forgetting spiritual experiences in our lives, this can make us vulnerable to being persuaded to leave when doubts creep in because of adversity or antagonism. And I agree -and this is huge - it's much easier to forget or even minimize or discount past experiences with the Spirit when we're not living the way we know we should. And regardless of any excuses we might make for not living right, we know better. Deep down, the light of Christ tells us that we know better, even when we let our 'natural man' characteristics (pride, ego, stubbornness, laziness, etc.) dominate. I love the statement regarding whether to leave or stay, "... this is something that I get to decide." Even beyond any spiritual experiences, ultimately, we get to choose what we believe and how we want to live.
Our beliefs give us hope, but a manifestation from the Spirit or Holy Ghost gives us pure knowledge of a particular belief - as is what happened in my case. So, regardless of faults, weaknesses, or mistakes found in or made by Church leaders, past or present, I know what I know, and that knowledge (or testimony) is my anchor that keeps me safe when "turbulence" comes. It (my testimony) is literally my most valuable posession because it guides me in mortality by giving me peace and keeping me focused on Christ and His gospel so I can reach my eternal goal to live with Him, our Father, and my dear family members once again.
Wonderful and congratulations for Following the spirit.
Thank you for the discussion. It’s tough having to deal with imperfect people inside and outside the church:-)
Ditto Dallyn. My experience and thoughts was identical to yours in the Gospel. So glad you articulated it so well in this podcast.
These podcasts are gems giving people hope and clarity to somtimes complicated questions that we dont always have the answers to and things that are usually not talked about in a Sunday service..😊
“Even though all the evidence shows that 2+2=4, I will still believe it equals 5”
That’s how I read this title
@@porkyrabbit And then you’ll be showered with praise about how strong you are. If faith means refusing to acknowledge that you’re wrong in the face of mountains of evidence, there’s nothing virtuous about it.
Lawrence Corbrige , a seventy was assigned to read and analyze whatever anti/ critical writing on the church is out there. They are not turning a blind eye to the roots of our faith and church establishment, really just the opposite. A tree with bad roots cannot have good fruit.
To find out if the fruit is good or bad is by living it and seeing for yourself. Yes you may be able to get some clue by digging through history, however, history is not the only or best way, it can be messy as you said.
If it was as easy as proving truth from error through history would that be great, we could just go out and prove the church is true and all the intellectuals would have to join up.
Thank you! ❤
As an ex-Mormon, it’s interesting to revisit this world once in a while and think about how I used to live and what I used to believe in. It sounds like the main reasons to stay faithful are that nobody’s perfect, polygamy was more normal back then, everyone’s history is messy, the members are nice people, the leaders have a difficult job to do, and it’s best way to live that we know of, so we should ignore the critics. Since leaving the church, it’s been nice having the freedom to find the best way for me to live and not having to believe in or defend ideas that there’s no evidence for. When the evidence clearly contradicts my view I can just say “I guess I was wrong, but now I know” instead of “by some mysterious means I am still right.” I appreciate the thought that went into the video though.
The same faith that is required today regarding prophets, scripture, and Jesus Christ is no doubt the same faith required in days of old notwithstanding they walked and talked with Christ, [the carpenter's son, whose brothers and sisters they also knew] and Peter, and Paul , and all the greats, and saw miracles of healing..
It's easy for Christians to look back with a matter of fact and say they believe.. it's no doubt Christ was a real person, they say..
But it's the Latter-day Saints who exercise the kind of faith today that proves its the kind of faith they would of had had they lived in days of old..
So if you wonder, would you have believed then, know it's the latter day saints that most assuredly could say yes..
~ i don't mean to knock Christians. I'm just pointing out that signs and evidence and proof isn't always obvious as we might suppose.. it's only when looking back on 2,000 years ago.. that we falsely think it was.. for there was plenty of reasons not to believe..
Dallyn, AMEN! thanks for sharing
Church policy change is a problem for some. Do they know that Jesus also made policy changes during his mortal ministry? For example, he tells his apostles to go on missions and not carry script or purse. Later, he tells them the opposite. Change of policy does not mean God changed his mind; it means he’s meetings different circumstances as they come that may or may not call for a policy change. As for other denominations feeling the spirit, I agree too, but we must know the difference between the occasional influence of the Spirit and the constant companionship of the Spirit as well as the light of Christ. Other denominations definitely have the light of Christ and perhaps the occasional influence of the Holy Ghost, but not the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost. About Fawn Brodie, she was David O. MacKay’s niece, which is why she easily gained access to get all the info in her book. But many she mentioned in her book were not accurate as she jumped to conclusions with many assumptions and cowardly dodged the council to answer for her actions. She later got a priesthood blessing from her brother as she was dying from cancer - another cowardly act as one should be true to her views and stay away if she criticizes the church.
Sunday afternoon - March 3, 2024.
I just re-watched this episode and am responding to my earlier comments . Here it is. Two of my kids have left the Church over plural marriage and the CES LETTER. They challenged me read some of this literature and I said , sure, bring it on. So I read them. Then I went and read in the D&C about plural marriage and I researched some of the stuff in that letter. And THEN I prayed and read the Book of Mormon. THAT gave me my answers. This is the Lord’s Church. The Book 📖 of Mormon was,indeed, translated by the gift and power of God. Joseph Smith was called of God to be a prophet. Whatever his shortcomings those things are certainties in my life. I told this to each of my children and encouraged them to pray 🙏 and read the Book 📖 of Mormon,too. However they refused. So there we are. We love 💕 each other and don’t talk about this anymore. And that’s okay 👌. 😊
I had the opportunity to share my testimony of the BOM this weekend and felt a burning in my bosom. The Book of Mormom is true!
I love your podcast. It seems that when people leave the church, they leave so “loudly” but when they return, they do so quietly. It’s great to hear from people who are returning to the church. On the subject of church history. I have read a lot of books about church history. If you check the footnotes, most are quoting other history books. When you check those footnotes, they refer you back to the previous history books. I don’t think the church historians can agree on what is true in church history. Books like Rough Stone Rolling is an example of a book with a “Footnote wreath”. Mark Hofmann’s forgeries has a lot to do with the inconsistency in the church history books. No one should leave the church because of church history. In the end, I bet we find out that what many people left the church over wasn’t even true.
100%
In a total faith crisis here and not one person from the church has reached out to me 💔
@crystallovesion I will reach out to you, I hate that you are going through it. How long has it been for you? I have been there too. It feels unbearablenin the moment but dont give up on life. You are looking in the right places. You are not a bad person for going through these things. Keep seeking. Some people that have helped me are Jared Halverson in RUclips, of course this channel, Hannah Stoddard, and others. Dont be afraid to reach out to a local friend in church or a local leader. You are not unique in this trial.
@@User24491I have reached out to my bishop he's too busy, in our meetings he's checking his phone the whole time and is distant. He is a new bishop though. My struggle is, I Got the impression to go back to the temple and I had an anxiety attack in the temple and no one helped me. I was so confused, that was the last straw. I've been waiting for my patriarchal blessing to come true for 20 years. Still no kids, no healing.
What I see a lot from people who explore ideas that go contrary to their strongly held beliefs is that they become less black and white or dogmatic and more nuanced in their belief. For example, Dallyn seems pretty relaxed with his children. He even thinks that if they stray during this life that at some point they will be able to be reunited. That is more of a personal doctrine, not a church doctrine. We come up with beliefs that make more sense to us than what the brethren actually teach. At that point, it starts to become LDS doctrine mixed with personal belief which isn't anything that can be found in lesson manuals at church. Life is hard, faith is even harder, and I think we need to be compassionate and understanding to those that decide they don't want to create their own separate beliefs in order to stay. But also we need to be understanding towards those that do. I just can't do that and stay believing, especially with all of the history that makes me question the ability of our leaders to receive inspiration from God. Much love to you and to those that find strength in their faith.
You probably had a wonderful Mission President, but we must be ready to give an answer to every man that asks, as Peter wrote. BTW, Rough Stone Rolling opened my eyes, but never shook my faith. Brodie, however, interjected a lot of her own psychological guesses to who Joseph Smith was. No Mam, That’s Not History, as Hugh Nibley wrote.
It’s ironic that we can accept that in the scriptures prophets can make mistakes and still be prophets, but if someone says a latter-day prophet made a mistake, it’s game over. It’s a false dichotomy that either the claim has to be false or the church can’t be true. In the Doctrine and Covenants, we have records of the Lord chastising Joseph for his mistakes, but still working with him in his calling. The anti message tries to convince us that God won’t work with imperfect people, including you. If we believe that Jesus Christ can correct the mistakes of a prophet, who has so much responsibility for so many people, then he can clean up our little messes too, no matter how big they feel to us.
We also have to be humble and recognize that our own judgement might be wrong as well. We have to trust God to make things right.
Fawn Brodie didn't leave the church. She was excommunicated.
The amount of people leaving for church history issues is waning. People increasingly are leaving because they’re being convinced that there is no right and wrong, that “love” is love, that oppressors run all churches, that there is no evil and no requirement to repent of anything because of whatever cunning reason Satan and his minions have come up with this decade, and that prophets are imperfect and because of that we should not listen to ANYTHING they speak about. Regardless, “God just waits and He loves.” As a parent, as a member of the church, the waiting and loving part that God has PERFECTED is my biggest struggle. I am not perfect.
Thank you for sharing another video of your effort to bring people the good news.
I have to tell you what our stake president told us in stake conference a few weeks ago. In a leadership meeting with Elder Cook he said worldwide we are baptizing around 22,000 people a month. The number of people asking for their names to be removed from the rules equals about one for every ward and branch in the church. There have been reports by the media saying we are losing members and shrinking. But we aren’t. Elder Cook asked President Nelson if he could call the media and correct and give them then the correct stats. President Nelson said no!😂
@@ramonasmith5893 I’d like to see the real stats. I don’t trust anything coming out of our woke church offices or PR hacks. Growth is not increasing at least not stateside. I am excited to see what nation is being blessed in preparation to become the new Zion. The USA is woke-toast.
@@ramonasmith5893 There are 15,000+ wards/branches. If 1 member a month from each is asking to have their records removed, and then those who are leaving who don’t have their records removed (I have two siblings who left the church decades ago without removing their records) we are very close to no real growth. You do realize that, right? I am not saying I’m happy that I’m right, but I’m willing to bet and double down that more members leave seeking refuge in woke worldly pastures than those who leave due to church history issues.
I'd love to see the podcast you referenced around 18:00 🤣
Also, the Saints book asserts a lot of things as fact which aren’t necessarily true
WHEN WILL THE EVIL STOP......OWL AND KEY....
❤
6:20 imagine if you had to be one of 5+ husbands sharing the same woman.
It’s not a given that Joseph smith was a polygamist.
If that is true, he sure tried!
I find it moot anyway.
We have The Manifesto, and that's good enough for _most_ of us.
It’s interesting that Latter-day Saints have no problem acknowledging that Brigham Young and other church leaders were polygamists, but have trouble admitting that Joseph Smith was. It’s because he lied about it to outsiders until the day he died. Not many knew about it until the Nauvoo Expositor wrote about it. He used his authority to marry at least 40 women and several young girls, two as young as 14. In 1876, one of his revelations about polygamy was finally added as D&C 132, so read that section, particularly verses 52 and 54, and tell me he might not have been a polygamist.
He was commanded to do multiple wives. But maybe it started in the pre existence because Satan took all of their chosen spouses with him when he was kicked out of heaven. And then they would have no spouse
Some of those women were already married to other priesthood holders. Joseph Smith sent them on missions and married their wives.
Tldr: man rants for 40 minutes about non members
And that is not impossible for the church to be true, so we should all just stay.
Fawn Brodie was never Anti Mormon