As a person that is definitely a human, I'm sure the innovating innovators at FLSUN will innovate their way to a most glorious firmware update that will show all of us human persons what fantastic innovators they truly are. Beep-boop, boop diddly beep beep.
I would love to see more of this in reviews! Now "I printed a huge helmet! Ignore the defects, that was probably the filament. I won't try it again because I was running out of time, buy now!"
@@RobertCowanDIY its so stupid, creality has brought out the k1, k1max, k1c and k2 (along with other even lower tier printers ) and all of those were suppost to be a "bamboo killer" and NONE oh those were anything close to what was promised .......just fuc*ing reta*ds....when a non profit like voron can bring a open source printer to market which is better than anything out there other than the bamboo printers this leaves prusa with there outdated printers and delusional prices the pepoly magneto (Wich is awesoome, id love to have one) but is to expensive at nearly 2k and then the sovol SV08 wich still has to make its place
I really appreciate the honesty of your reviews, lots of youtubers trying to sell us a bambu killer with an 8min benchy forgetting there is plenty more use cases than a pre-sliced toy to print. Great video !
@@RobertCowanDIYtbh I’m kinda annoyed by several RUclipsrs that put out first impressions just parroting their marketing claims while making almost no effort to validate those claims, even ones as absurd as the 110mm3/s flow. The race to get videos out on time to compete for views really hurts their credibility.
@@ichisaur Completely agree. I would fully expect it would go: "unboxing, now let's test that flow rate number". That was the first thing I did! That was my first print.
Respect for this. Far too many "reviewers" always gloss over the multitude of flaws most printers release with and tell us to buy them anyway. I started my 3d printing with an ender 3 pro, got frustrated with it after 5 years of printing, modding, tinkering, fighting with it, and finally gave up on it and jumped on the bambu bandwagon, and it's been an incredibly smooth ride ever since. I started with an A1 mini, now I have two A1s, and A1 mini and I also gave my wife an A1 mini. She's never 3d printed anything, but jumped right in; I showed her the basics of changing filament, adjusting settings and she's been in love with it. I'm actually excited about the creality K2, but I really don't trust them to release a printer without issues, so I'm waiting for actual reviews. Even then, my bambus have been so reliable, I probably wouldn't buy anything else anyway. I still want another A1.
the community and industry has matured a LOT and it needs to steer towards honesty. just a few years ago, printers were still pretty tweaky and only for true hobbyists. many of those content creators still have that mindset. But with bambu, an absolute noob can buy a printer and be printing parts significantly better than someone with 5+ years experience.
@@RobertCowanDIY That's the main reason I switched form my ender. I got sick of the tinkering. I just wanted to print things and actually learn 3d modeling.
I got an x1c and i love it! Problem is if i don't use bambu labs filament i tend to have alot of problems. Also ive had 3rd party filament from inland break in the ams. Overall though its incredible. Im not super great with tech and ive made probably 30 different things!
@@snuggie1849 Keep at it, once you find good settings for the 3rd party filament you'll be able to save a lot of money by not sticking only with Bambu's filament. Nothing wrong with only using Bambu, but options are always good. 💪
@@snuggie1849 Yeah, for the record, I don't use the AMS and only buy decent filament. That's a really good start. The AMS is nice, but probably the least reliable aspect of their printers.
I can say with all honesty that this is probably the most real review I’ve watched in a long time. I completely agree with regards to FL Sun and what they’re putting out. I remember in 2014 I purchased an FLSun delta and it didn’t work back then either. Says a lot about the company. I’m recently back into printing after a short hiatus, and I fell for the hype and purchased a Creality unit. Let’s just say I ordered a Bamboo Lab unit and it’s currently on the way. I’m tired of the hype and I’m tired of the lies. If FL Sun doesn’t like your opinion, then they should’ve put out a product that they could be proud of. This looks to be pretty printer…but actually is a pretty big embarrassment.
I'm so glad you said this, and as a fan of Prusa printers I have to give Bambulabs the credit that when they release a new machine it's feature complete. My X1 from 2022 has had some great updates but the main features were there and working when I bought it and it just... works. So disappointed in FLSun and I hope to see them improve.
100% agree. I was torn between Prusa and Bambu Lab. Ended up going with Bambu Lab X1 Carbon, because of what you get for the money, and it's been awesome. No buyer's remorse, for a change.
The question is whether they will improve this product’s software, which seems to be the biggest problem. The next is to put out more realistic specs for the hardware.
I'm so tired of affiliate links on reviews, feels so rampant in this space. Ty for calling that out. As far as my newest printer, I found an amazon returned ender 3 for 40 dollars and i'm modding it to hell and back. It's the most fun i've had since i started this hobby
If they had just said "this does 50mm/s max flow" people would have unanimously praised it. Now everyone is ripping it to shreds. Good volume, good price point too... sad
EXACTLY! They didn't have to claim 110! 50 is still great, and it really CAN do that. But, it can't print well, at any speed. I think that can all be fixed, eventually. But right now, the prints look awful.
On the bright side, since the printer is dysfunctional, most people won’t experience the famous FLSun ‘umbilical abrasion shorts out wires and fries the logic board’ feature.
This may be my favorite 3D printer RUclips video of all time. And I was also happy to see you even acknowledge your own videos with the XL. There are some popular 3d printer "content providers" that have gotten really bad about this. Great Video Robert - and just a note - I clapped back at you on your earlier video's about the Prusa XL - but now that they have addressed a lot of the initial issues - I have one sitting in my cart ready for me to hit the buy button. GREAT VIDEO.
No problem at all. We're all humans (well, except for the bots...) and it's hard to review something objectively. In the end, if it works for what you need and the price is right, it's a good product.
@@RobertCowanDIY Yep and part if the reason I was finally able to feel comfortable getting the XL was the follow up videos you published showing the printer getting better. That and the rapid software fixes/improvements from Prusa. Now I'm looking forward to getting mine (I'm of the mind set that I'm willing to pay for quality). Keep up the vids!
@@PaulHuckaby I use it regularly and have no issues. I still think it has some 'maturing' to do, but it's a decent printer. I actually sold all of my printers except for my X1C, MK4 and XL.
Finally someone tells the truth about the machine! I was a huge fan of the brand since I started my hobby with their "Super Racer" machine and I was happy with the price quality, but after starting a small business I did a lot of research on whether to buy the S1 but the first thing that stopped me was that they delayed the release a lot of the machine itself and the difficult troubleshooting of their machines due to the small audience unlike companies like Prusa & Bambu, that's exactly why I chose the X1C and I don't regret it.
Nice, honest review. I have their older printers. I like the delta mechanism. They are fast, good for organic object, but somehow not accurate enough for mechanical parts. I also hate these unfinished printers and marketing specs.
Same. I hate how this industry just allows it to happen. It's like shop vacs! Have you ever looked at those HP numbers? They can do something like 5HP, but you can only get around ~2HP from the outlet. Just made up numbers.
I ALMOST pre-ordered one. I'm glad I listened to my inner voice. It took them a while to ship these out, it doesn't live up to the hype, it's gigantic, and it's super noisy. My wife would've murdered me. I appreciate your honest input. I think creators are tip-toeing around review videos so they don't upset or make manufacturers nervous.
yep! and if the firmware gets fixed in a few months, no one wants to have the thumbnail saying "don't buy this" when they could lose out on affiliate sales.
Thanks for sharing . I have one Bambu P1s and one FLSun S1, When I need to print complex multi-color models, I fire up my P1S. When I'm printing larger models like helmets, I usually use the S1. I absolutely love them .
It was actually your honesty that convinced me to buy into the Prusa XL. Between you and Tada 3d printing I figured I had a grasp of the pitfalls. I think OEM's are better served with honesty over endless hype. Thanks.
aww, thanks! my goal is to give people a real life experience with the product. sometimes even the worst product can be the right one for someone, depending on their needs.
Oh snap, this is a spicy one. But yeah, you're right. I usually forgive a *reasonable* amount of "pre-launch unreadiness" such as there being no available profiles - when I get the printer 2 months before it launches. But if you bought this as a retail unit, and there are STILL no profiles? That's ridiculous. Half the features don't even work? Insane. It really has made me reconsider even taking machines before they're 100% retail-ready, and then, not letting anything slide.
Damn, that's a shame... I am so happy to have honest folks like you around to keep us informed. Thank you. It really sucks when you're excited about getting something and then it doesn't meet the expectations... even close. Luckily, my X1 Carbon is doing a good job and hasn't disappointed me, so far.
Honest and very convincing review. You just demonstrated that being given a device sometimes clouds one's judgment. Thank you Robert! You earned a new subscriber.
I understand FLSUN just released a large software update for the S1 and T1. I wonder how much that has improved the usability of those machines. I would love to own a delta like the S1, but like you said, I need them to do a MUCH better job with the user experience and hardware (hot end, specifically). Frankly, I could care less about the speed numbers. If I was running a print farm, maybe then I would care, but I'm not. It just needs to work well and lay down quality prints. If it produced prints as clean as the X1C at any speed, that would be great. If it produced prints as clean as the X1C and did it, say, an hour faster, that would be spectacular. And frankly, they should just ditch their efforts at making their own slicer and just build solid profiles in Orca for everyone to use. I've watched a number of reviews on the S1. I have yet to see anyone slow the printer down to normal speed and use a custom-built profile for a single decent filament type (that they would have to make themselves, since FLSUN doesn't, of course), and run some prints just to see what the machine is capable of, if given the right tuning. That would be interesting. No, people shouldn't have to do that - agreed - but it would kind of prove or disprove the viability of the hardware and whether or not any amount tuning or improvement on the part of FLSUN in future can actually make this thing better. If so, I'd be willing to wait until they got it right and then buy the printer. If not, then it would be back to perusing core-XY and bed slingers, probably ending up with an X1C. Personally, I'm less concerned with keeping up with the Joneses or having the newest, fastest, shiniest printer out there. I just want to have something that I'll like using and that'll work every time I use it. I'd love that to be a delta machine.
I read the firmware notes and it doesn't seem like anything actually major was addressed, just a few quality of life improvements, but nothing big. I could be wrong though. That being said, I absolutely created a custom profile and had it running quite slow (normal speeds really) and it didn't change much. There was a lot of surface artifacts, salmon skin, etc. It wasn't worth a review even.
All I am saying is my prusa MK2 and MK3 are still running. Some care and work here and there but I don't feel any need to get anything newer for my workshop use. The newer competitors may be shiny and faster, but I don't have a use case for an extra printer that actually doesn't add any functionality to melting plastic on a moving surface. I did get a prusa XL because it's big and I needed that size. But it was usable for me as it came out. I didn't care for any of that connectivity or that fangled mess. New updates has made it better, faster and all that jazz. But the hardware is what matters. They can fiddle with software but it will only get better if the hardware is still there after many moons when the update comes.
hear me out... I was the same as you. then I got an X1C. for several months I thought "ok, yeah, it's faster. but the prints looks just as good on my MK3". Then I had some projects that required a LOT of printing. The speed of the MK3 versus the X1C suddenly came into play and prints that I was assuming would be overnight were now just a couple hours and I could get a LOT more done and prototype a lot quicker. The MK3 got sold during that project. I never really thought speed alone could make a difference, but once you get used to it, it changes how you work. Just my 2 cents.
The craziest part is how easily most of these issues could be polished out or avoided entirely with minimal work. They could have an intern with solid printing knowledge bust out print profiles. They could have used an existing slicer instead of their own hack job. They could polish the UI with a few hours of programming. They could simply not lie about capabilities. Like, why? Anyways, thanks for the PSA. It really is annoying we have to sort through so much marketing nonsense and all the buddy buddy reviews.
The print quality is the same as the FLSUN delta kit I built in 2017… glad to see they’re consistent. I was hoping they’d improved the quality, so your rant was helpful. Thanks for sharing!
I was just thinking this. I had one of their kits that used v-roller carriages, a dinky 40mm cooling fan, and a knockoff V6, all driven by a RAMPS board. My prints looked about the same. Granted at 1/10th the speed but…. How did it go so wrong for them? Remote “cpap” cooling, the linear rails, and the modern mobo ought to get excellent prints at lower speeds.
I’m glad I watched this presentation. I had watched this and a review of the S1. It looked like it was a supper printer then real life testing proved it’s not ready for real life.
Great honest video. I found your channel as I was looking at the XL for multi material printing. I have a WUXN WXR which has been a great first printer, but their customer service is terrible. I think these companies rely on the “influencer” and tchotchke print in place dragon consumers way too much. And as you said, we are all part of the problem by not holding the companies accountable for either junk machines or junk customer service. Keep up the awesome work.
Loved it. I am tinkerer/maker but also a photojournalist and I have found myself getting increasingly frustrated over the years with the shilling most channels do. Even some of the supposedly better ones. I know the drivers behind it, creators need to be on the good side of the manufacturers to be sent early products to review so they can get their clicks and pay their rent - all the while claming they are independent and no money exchanged hands. But it's a dangerously circle and the manufacturers have been gaining power over reviewers because of this - because if you get on the blacklist, you can't review early and hence no clicks, no income for rent. It happened in all consumer goods areas. Dodgy sponsors are the other bane, like become a Scottish lord and all that BS. But that's another topic. I think there's a new (old...) way to be creator and a few are going this way but there's room for more. F*ck the freebies, use the Patreon money to buy what you want to review. Be very, very careful and do your due diligence if you take on sponsors. Soon, a lot of reviews will be AI created/scripted so being the super honest, not-on-the-take, independent human reviewer might actually work. Especially if you already have the followers, perhaps that switch is doable. Unless the YT overlords decide to have the algorithm bury you because people are gullible and there are more clicks in feeding them AI content...
Great video. I hope it will help consumers think that a 3D printer is a production machine and not the latest iPhone. The requirements for a production machine are, first of all, reliability in operation, ease of maintenance, and stable quality. This can only be verified by time and not by the statements of advertising managers.
Also the lights on the left side of the screen are just status indicator lights, if theres an issue with printer they turn yellow just so if you glance in at the printer youll know since the screen turns off, also it is a hardened steel nozzle and comes with an extra, Ive run a crap ton of carbon fiber through mine and it prints like its new. The T1 however does not have a hardened steel nozzle.
The indicator lights aren't implemented yet. They're SUPPOSED to show progress of a print and as a status indicator. BUT, they didn't bother to program anything in yet.
I have to say that I was pretty surprised by Bambu, especially with what they said about their printers. I think Prusa may have been under a lot of pressure to release the MK4 and XL before they were fully ready, given the competition from Bambu. It's a common problem with many other printer manufacturers. They're more focused on launching new models than improving existing ones in terms of software. Many of the printers, such as the FLSUN, Sovol S8 or Creality K1, have so much potential, but it always fails because of the software and lack of model maintenance. It's more important for all these companies to introduce a new device as quickly as possible because nobody is interested in the previous models anymore.
We appreciate the information! Having integrity to say it just like you have is something to take notice of. You and Clough42 are keeping quality first!
Thank you Robert - I really appreciate the effort and time you put into all your episodes. 👍👍😎👍👍 Maybe one day consumer product manufacturers will do the same.
I bought one of the k2 plus packages on the first day. I also got one of the first k1 max’s… as much as I hated performing Creality r&d… it has been a fantastic machine. Praying for a similar experience with the k2…😳 Loved the sincere frustration you conveyed in your “non” review. Keep up the good work
After getting the v400 and trying to use their own firmware over and over again, up to an including where they closed off SSH for power users to remote manage their printers... I ended up going with a custom firmware and haven't looked back since. When the S1 was announced I thought. "Cool, they really should fix the V400 issues before releasing a new hot printer though" Sadly, with this printer I can't see them fixing the standard firmware for the v400. For people with the know how to do custom like myself, it's a non issue, but I'm the exception, I believe, not the rule.
I already had respect for you but you've gone up again in my estimation. Love that you've called out this trend of over promise and under-deliver. I also hate the release of products with advertised features which aren't in at the start and only to be delivered by firmware update at some unknown point in the future.
I own 2 V400s, and I agree with you. I looked at this machine and decided based on the specs it didn't make since to purchase at the time. I would like to print faster but quality is always sacrificed when you do. And I would much prefer stock klipper on these machines with FLSUN presets vs the stripped down version it comes with.
I've had 0 issues with my 2 S1 printers or my t1 printers, I absolutely love it. I know it's not exactly as advertised but I've been getting very good prints off of mine.
I have yet to see anyone getting 'good' prints. Everything I've seen has been pretty rough. Are you getting ringing and salmon skin? If you aren't you have unicorns.
@RobertCowanDIY no I'm not getting any of that, my friend and the ones in our shop aren't either. Now that could be down to the new firmware update but I love these printers.
I spent MONTHS learning and testing and learning again how to calibrate and tune and slice so that I could get my FLSUN v400 prints to look good. Finally, I managed to get prints to look almost as good as a modded ender 3. The wonderful great upside is that i could print at 180mm/s instead of 40. I regret buying it.
I watched Clough42's video and surprised how they can get these out with such problems. I agree with not buying Kickstarter printers. My Prusa XL with the 5 tool head was a disappointment that is getting better because of software improvements. I have a Magneto and a Rat Rig v4 on order will see how they work
I bought in to the Kickstarter for the Ankermake's m5 back about two years ago. I have so much regret from that that it has turned into moldy, slimy, regerts. At the time, Bambu and Anker both had their Kickstarters live within a short period of time of each other and I really should have just waited.
I just got my second bambu x1c, I've only been 3d printing for half a year. If it ain't broke don't fix it. I might eventually get a different printer but I've had no problem so I didn't need to buy into hype just to spend hours leaning how a different one works
Thank you for the video! Unfortunatelly, it's too late for me, as mine is on its way. All I can do is hope that it will get some support and profiles for Orca Slicer. The heated chamber thing is now annoying, since I was convinced that I can print ABS and other materials reliably with it. In these circumstances, it might only be marginally better than the enclosed Klipper printers that I already have.
See if you can return it! They took a return on mine. I'd suspect that if you already have an enclosed printer, this won't do anything different for you. In fact, they didn't properly compensate for the z offset when things heat up, so different bed temperatures dramatically affect the bed leveling and offsets. This is something a LOT of manufacturers don't really realize. It's the reason I sent back my QIDI printer as well.
Not when they keep getting tons of preorders. All a company needs to do is make up some numbers, send it to a few reviewers and wait for the preorders to roll in!
Good honest video. This is why Bambu lab can’t be beat cause they actually put the effort into their features. The rest still just market and under deliver.
Thank you for being an early adopter. So many of us got burned by Kickstarters years ago, we don't go anywhere near them until the product actually ships, and the first revision bugs get worked out ;-)
I'm 100% with you on this 👍 About the "Killer" click bait. I start to blacklist channels using that term. Those YTubers are clearly looking for views period.
@@BeefIngot good point. Personally no matter the niche, when they use words like "Ultimate", "Mind Blowing", "The Best", "Secret" I refrain from watching the video. Mainly because I know I will be disappointed 😂 Have a nice day!
It's the belts. My v400 print quality changed dramatically after I changed the OEM belts to gates belts. The belts are way too long to have any give, and the OEM belts are like toothed rubber bands.
As much as I like Prusa and enjoy using their products, even they fell into the trap of advertising/promising features that didn't exist at product launch. Specifically, I'm referring to Input Shaper on both the MK4 and the XL. Yes, Prusa did eventually come out with firmware updates that supported input shaper, but as a consumer it is bad practice to purchase anything based on a promised future feature.
Correct. And it's still not REALLY implemented since it's not something you can tune or even adjust, it's just a base value for all printers, which seems odd to me.
Strongly agree with your conclusion, some printers come good in the end, but a lot don't. For example I bought a Flashforge 5m 6 months after launch, the software was hot garbage but has improved, and an open source klipper version is available. So that makes it ok? Hell no. But it was really cheap and is now very good, so the value equation changes all the time, depending on the state of the issues and the price of the printer. Any newbies are completely fucked though 😢
I feel I mostly dodged a bullet when I bought into the hype around the Elegoo Neptune 4. Sure, replacement nozzles are a PITA, and it came with the same useless oudated Cura version, but with a PrusaSlicer/OrcaSlicer profile and some part availability improvements, it's mostly not terrible. Much better than that horrid Ender 3 v2 which it replaced, and of which I still cannot believe that anyone seriously recommended that utter POS. What I like about Prusa and Bambu is that they have leaned heavily into the 'I just want to print stuff' market, rather than the tinkering makers who keep modding their Enders and Vorons, and don't seem to care that they're basically just being sold unfinished products with each year's release cycle. AnkerMake seems to be making headways into the 'it just works' space too, which is promising. Thank you for this honest video about this printer and the 3D printing industry in general.
Great open and honest review thank you ❤. I bought a cheap flsun printer years ago as they were selling them off and the delta motion system is fun to watch but it was rubbish. Unfortunately there are a lot of deceiving RUclipsrs out there just raving about a free printer, but remember they are not being paid for the review, they just get free stuff and you don’t bite the hand that feeds you free stuff. Also buy this printer so I get more views, a commission and even more FREE STUFF!
Thanks for your honesty review as it's easy to spot a paid review, at least to me personally. I knew the flow rate was a lie as soon as I saw the hotend and wattage. AI seems like a way to put higher power MCU's in them and do nothing. I have never seen a 3D printer with AI advertised that actually works. Case in point, the Z1 has an ARM MCU and runs a custom version of Linux. That's why it can run custom firmware. The P1 uses an ESP32-S3 for its MCU. You can get one of those for under 5 dollars US. P1 series has no AI detection but X1 does I REALLY wish I had the knowledge to build a VZbot printer which is essentially an X1 style printer that's open source and uses AWD (2 stepper motors for X and Y) and has the most insane hotends (Goliath) with a water cooled option for heat creep and fan extender fan cooling. It can hit 75mm/s flow rate consistently according to Klipper from videos on here. It has a 40mm melting zone and it's heater is a 100 watt wire the size of a coat hanger that wraps around the length of the hotend several times. I have also seen it hit 1600mm/s speeds but you have to water cool the stepper motors to do that. I'm not giving up on Delta printers yet though. The VZBots goal was to make the world's fastest 3D printer and they did. They announced their next printer is going to be a Delta printer but there's no timetable
I'm tempted to build one of these kits, but I've been in the forums and reddit posts and people can't seem to show me really clean looking prints from them, they just look average at best.
@@RobertCowanDIY Thanks for letting me know, I honestly never really thought about that. Most videos are about speeds so I just assumed if it could print that fast you could print slower, but still fast, to get better quality but if that isn't the case then yeah, a lot of money time and effort if it's just fast with poor print quality. That and only one reseller and while a reputable seller from AliExpress that I have purchased a lot of stuff from, but they don't control shipping or customs and that's a long ways are more expensive but easier than sourcing your own parts. I'm happy with my P1S print quality. I'm not happy with all this cloud stuff. I found a way to just upload g-code files via ftps or curl commands because Bambu is so slow. Just need to move to Orca already .Even locally it still only transfers at 250kbps. That just means it has good coverage because that's the speed limit of the 5 dollar ESP32-S3 MCU. I have no idea who wrote that but because ESP-IDF is apparently the worst programming language ever which is why you will never see custom firmware. Stuff like no PID tuning. It's honestly really simple stuff I miss.. Starting the entire proprietary hotends when they aren't needed. Everything prints great if you use their filament and slicer because nobody has been able to control the entire process like that. Their filament settings are spot on in their slicer though. It also took me 3.ninutes to download a 21MB from makerworld, I have Google fiber so..... You can understand why I do the FTPS workaround. If you want to host everything in AWS fine but pay for the bandwidth you actually need since you engineered the printer software to send a sliced file with gcode to AWS then back to my printer. It's stupid and a huge waste of money for them. For what, to get a model I downloaded from printables or their site and settings used as 3MF is just an archive file, you can change the extension to .zip and extract them to see what's in them I'm sure you already know this though. I can't believe the FLSUN came with such terrible profiles. I get that it's different so it's not the same as probably a bed slinger or X/Y but still, that was a joke. If that's their software then that AI promise is sure to never deliver. I also don't know if I' would ever get used to a round build plate
I have been holding out on buying a new printer (SV08) because all the reviews mention features and firmware fixes that it needs. I don't want to pay to be a BETA tester, I want a product that works out of the box. Thanks for your honest review!
I need to get my hands on an SV08, I know they were 'aggressive' with their affiliate program. The popular printers usually just have really good kickbacks or incentives.
I know exactly what you mean. I was ready to replace my Bambu Hotend with a different product. I almost entered my purchase info, but I had that nagging feeling I should check some reviews. On the Bambu forms, I read about this product and all the promises made only to discover its marketing hype. And it wasn't cheap. The new design is an open source design, patented in the USA , making a $20.00 hotend retail for $124.98. The reason I was considering replacing my printer's hotend was due to the degraded print quality on my Carbon X1. If you have an X1, and have upgraded your hotend I would appreciate your feedback as I've tried playing with the printer extrusion settings, temperatures and print speeds. I mostly print in PETG, and my hotend nozzle keeps getting filament buildup. The final print layer used to be clean, now it's streaky and the midlayers are leaving random spaghetti strings requiring more post print cleanup. Even new, out of the package sealed filament. I'm sure it's me. But I have also printed 20ish 2KG spools so far on the original .4 mm Nozzle. Thanks in Advance.... James
Thanks for saying what I have been thinking about the 3D industry and many other FLSUN S1 reviews. This was refreshing and I wish more content creators would follow suit.
I got lucky because last Christmas I got the Qidi X-plus 3 and it does what it says on the box (99% the extrusion volume is not real) it prints like a charm once setted correctly. I had a bit of experience (a year spent fighting my kingroon) and I am an engineer so I can understand why something happens when it does. Having said that when the xp3 got out was completely out of whack, it had a plastic frame tha was giving up at the temperature the printer was supposed to operate, binding axes and other funny things. Qidi offered a compensation or an exchange with the new model that has a full metal frame. So at least they rushed things out as you said but at least they owned their mistakes.
I'd been intrigued by the Bambu printers since they launched, but it took recommendations from other people I personally know and trust to suggest getting one for work. Even then I wasn't willing to fork out my own money on a P1S until I had used the X1E at work. I've never been an early adopter but I've seen so many people get burned by the marketing trickery and/or the just outright lying or sending reviewers better machines than actual customers will get that I just couldn't really believe that the Bambu's were the paradigm shift that they are. This is all with knowing that it's engineers that came from DJI and DJI is responsible for a MAJOR paradigm shift in the consumer and professional multi-rotor industry..... but maybe I'm overly skeptical and jaded....
@@RobertCowanDIY Yep! We've got an X1E at work. I had pretty high expectations given what other people had told me and what I'd seen in reviews etc. and I was still blown away by how good it is. I waited until this most recent sale and snagged myself a P1S Combo and have likewise been very impressed with the user experience and the print quality and speed. There are also so many little things that as a mechanical engineer who's been 3D printing since 2015 that are so nice. The fact that the AMS fits inside the printer for shipping is EXCELLENT product design, the fact that it knows when filament breaks somewhere between the extruder and the AMS and gives you an error message that is actually helpful enough that you can easily troubleshoot the issue is huge. The fit, finish, form and polish just feels like a high end product and you don't feel like you got screwed even with how relatively expensive they are (I have 3x printrbot simple metals, a prusa I3 clone and a couple CR-10 clones that combined cost me about what my P1S combo did). I'm also always thankful for how well it works with the "generic " profiles because I have a lot of non-bambu filament already. I think Bambu Labs really is the kick in the pants the consumer printer industry needed to step up their game.
I already bought one at launch, because I regarded FLSUN as an established brand with mature products and I was (mostly) thrilled with my V400, but I'm disappointed that this particular machine released so half-baked and over-promised. The AI vision/laser "features" are useless garbage on my first few tests, with false positives cancelling perfectly intact prints etc. The slicer is a joke (but there is already community support including a machine profile and several filament profiles for OrcaSlicer, so I'll look forward to seeing what the tuning ends up looking like once the smart people get through it.) That said, even though it sits on a throne of lies, it's still bigger, faster, and fancier than my other printers, and it has such promising hardware, I'm gonna do whatever I need to to make it work well at normal and above-average speeds.
I'm mostly with you on that. I think it COULD be fixed, but we shouldn't have to fund their development. I also hope it works as advertised, but judging from their history with other printers, they'll just come out with the S2 and everyone will buy that one, then the S3, etc, etc.
Great and honest review, I really appreciate it. My feeling is also that there is just too much marketing and less of the reality, something like with a hotend stating max flow 70+ but in the underline/testing details you can read it was measured with 1,2mm nozzle printing PLA at 260°C, so an absolutely off the reality measurement, but that is what helps the sales a lot and people accept it. I get that you buy cheap ender 3 and take it as a "finish yourself" printer, but doing the same with 300 or 400+$ printers is weird habit.
I think my ender 3 v2 neo, with some minor mods. prints well and i can improve it myself. my favorite mods are a wifi switch that turns off when printer is done, and octopi with cura link. can just hit slice in slicer. I can also do it with orcaslicer now, i just haven't found stuff i need in orcaslicer. I also hear klipper is something i might want to mod in next. i just worry that if i go klipper i will miss my psu wifi off plugin
Agreed! I've been so underwhelmed by the prints coming off this thing, especially out of the box. They've improved a little bit with firmware/profiles but still I'd rather use their older V400 which doesn't make my ears bleed, and produces close to perfect prints every time. Manufacturers need to put in more effort ensuring these products are ready for launch and meet all the claims they say they're capable off. I hope I made it clear at the beginning of my S1 video that I am not a reliable source for deep technical FDM knowledge, and there are features this thing has that I didn't even know at the time because I just wanted to get it turned on and printing stuff for my tabletop gaming hobby. I put the focus on the out of box experience from the perspective of someone who sucks at FDM printing, and I hope that wasn't in any way misleading despite my own somewhat negative conclusions.
Your comments and your video title don't seem to line up. "This printer is AWESOME" doesn't sound a lot like "I haven't been happy with this and stopped using it."
@@RobertCowanDIY Well, it's not untrue. The sheer size of the thing is actually awe inspiring, as is the speed, and I don't know who would buy it and what use case they could possibly have for it. I concluded in my video that the print quality isn't there, the UX is a bit shit (loading/unloading filament), some features don't work, and it's too noisy. There was some other stuff too but this is what I can remember off the top of my head. Not exactly a glowing first impression imo. I personally think it's a great choice of title and thumbnail because it works to create a curiosity gap. How can it be awesome and have no buyers? Something must be wrong with it, or something doesn't add up here therefore I wanna watch and find out. YT titles and thumbnails I probably don't need to tell you are one of the most important aspects to get right to have success on this platform, and I take seriously the task of coming up with titles that can create that curiosity gap without crossing the line into pure clickbait bullshit. I think the worse a video is at delivering on its title/thumbnails curiosity gap, the more it can be considered "clickbait". For example if I titled my video something like "This printer is so fast it can catch fire!!!???🔥🔥🔥😰😰" and then when the video actually has zero mention of any fire risk associated with the fast printing then I will have failed to deliver on an absolutely huge curiosity gap, and that video would rightly be called clickbait trash and piss everyone off who watches it. But at the risk of repeating myself.. it is actually awesome, and I actually have no clue who should buy it 🤣
As mentioned, if there's any doubt, also watch Clough42's review of this same unit - including the part where the company posted fake comments and tried pressuring him to take down the review.
I got 2 V400 on my own and I love them, Sometimes more, Sometimes less. They are solid and I get beautiful prints wirh them. But you are rigth, the specs they promise are simply not true. You just get one, Highspeed or Quality, not both at the same time.
i hear you..... Ordered Sovol SV08 - was just amazed by the price and the build volume - and of course being a Voron clone .... Well in the end I noticed i bought it for 20$ cheaper than retail price will be and need to wait at least 2 months to get it. I canceled order - partially due to the Creality K2 with their AMS version and of course 50% off - just 700$. Luckily i could not get in the 50% or the last 20% off. Was a bit disappointed but then i bought P1S with AMS during their sale --- Im happy i did. SInce my 1st printer was a Cobblebot from Kikstarter - got lucky just to recive it. and then few ender clones - and all of those printers are more like a toy to tinker with not a printer......
I always appreciate your videos. And you gotta hate that marketing. Way to call them out. Maybe they will keep working on it and somehow make this right.
I use the image feature in Cura slicer. An old version the new version of sucks for images. I also have two bambulab P1S. I rarely print from stl files but from images. So I take Cura G-Code and change it to run on the P!S. With the Cura G-code it like to jam nozzles and extruders. I have a broke K1 max. because unlike Bambulab who have good connectors Ender is so fing cheap that the connector broke off the head PC board.
My first printer was a home built delta with heated chamber. I used to print in ABS only. While mine suffered from processing slowdowns due to ramps 1.4. I always felt delta printers are not a good solution to 3d printing and their space savings are thrown out the window after you exceed 200mm cubed space! Core XY printers are a better solution overall! My .02c, as for creality being suspect. Yes you’re right about that. I dislike the sneaky update process and confusing hot end and extruded issues they have. Basically people are spending 400+ to have to tweak a machine…
thank you! It's becoming normal expecting that a printer doesn't actually work and people seem fine with it. I bought this printer and I'm guilty, I wasn't expecting the AI stuff to work for example... But honestly I didn't expect it to that bad. Anyway I'm replacing all the electronics now, hopefully I'll have it work (possibly at half the speed)
I bought the V400 last year and I pretty much expected that the specs they were claiming it could do would be... misleading at best. But, I figured if it could do half of what it claimed, it was still pretty good. I'm generally happy with it, doing about half of the speed it says it can do. I have non-print seeks going at 400mm/s and it doesn't skip a beat. I replaced the bed with a fiberglass plate that I clamp down, because for large prints with shrink issues, the original bed pulls up and ruins the print. It works quite well now.
Do you print mostly cosmetic stuff or engineering-focused prints? I think you could make this work for cosmetic stuff, but for parts that need to fit together and hit tolerances, it's a no-go.
@@RobertCowanDIY I print pretty much exclusively functional parts. The dimensions are spot-on for me. I use PETG exclusively as well. I spent a good amount of time tuning retraction, pressure advance, and acceleration parameters.
You're the only person not praising that printer but what you're reporting is definitely congruent with what reprap / duet guys report about delta kinematics. It requires a level of precision in the tower arrangement and rigidity that's going to be hard to mass manufacture at even that printer's price point to get good results. Thanks for not being a shill lol
Right?! I saw other reviews and they just flash the finished print really quickly on camera and talk about something else. But the prints look REALLY bad for 2024. Strange times.
I agree with almost everything. Above all, it is important that the false promises become fewer, so thank you for this honest report and the work! But Kickstarter printers should still be bought. But on honest terms.
But isn't the issue with kickstarter, how do you determine if the claims are honest? they will send pre-release units to reviewers with heavy incentives... shouldn't we wait until it's not just "on paper"?
I did pre order the s1 since I got the v400 as my first Printer on it's release but I canceled the s1 order exactly because of the crappy software it was like a 100% chance for them to fk up the software again. I got the Qidi X Max 3 instead and I'm super happy with it
Very much the point indeed and I must say that even established channels like the 3d printing nerd (who I still like btw), is covering kickstarters again, with a warning, but he said to never do that again before. It's very likely that if it's your business to be a youtuber in this space, you kinda have to in the end. There's just not that much more to go on if companies start doing this and the most popular are cheap, Chinese ones. The Bambu falls in that category as well I think, almost impossible to compete with with the wages we have in the western world and they did kill it with their release. Prusa did drop the ball on their latest iterations or sure, but I'm still happy with my MK4 which simply does what I want it to, just at a higher price. Could've gotten a Bambu, decided to support this part of the world, sometimes that can also be a choice, plus I can completely reassemble it if I want to and I love that.
I'm a human and I like doing human things like drinking the water and walking with my foot. FLSUN is an innovative and ground braking company. Innovating and ground braking is very hard to do. Give them your money, so that they can innovate and ground brake better.
Ah, a fellow human, hello. I, too, agree that FLSUN is an innovating and groundbreaking company. With every new product launch, you can expect things to not be perfect, I have faith that FLSUN will fix these issues. Let's all be innovative and groundbreaking together. I invite you to groundbreak and innovate with me!
Hahah this is ridiculous with bots. Even another reviewer ran into bots, they had their comments disappear later on. Funny enough just like the other channel they land within a very short time. No one describes themselves as Human. People would say I or we, but not I, the Human. Maybe I, the enthusiast or engineer to define expertise and background to help ground their opinion. Hopefully fulsun stops the boting and puts that time and effort into improving their designs and being more objective in their internal reviews before marketing.
This is a good video and more honest overviews are needed. One thing I would like taken into account is that sooo many tool companies marketing claims are extremely BMS. Vacuum cleaners for example quote this ridiculous value called “air watts” which doesn’t even mean anything.
Wow, Robert, try not to hold back and tell me how you feel about this printer - lol. Love the fact that everyone is catching on to the lies this company is putting forth. Very honest and revealing video about the product and yourself
Good review on this I have the t1 in for review at the moment and there are some issues. I saw on the Facebook group that people can’t see why the key issue of releasing products that do not correctly work as advertised is a problem. The feedback from any decent reviewer will be honest about their experience and from what I’ve seen on the s1 they all pretty much align. Flsun wanted these machines to be put up against the likes of Bambu and unfortunately they just aren’t in the same league.
I was so bummed when I got a Voron kit right before this printer was released and I'm honestly glad I got the kit instead of this printer. My printer is now printing nearly as fast as the FLSun claimed the S1 would, but without the lies and bad print quality.
A message to you Robert. Please DO keep buying the latest Printer because we need unfiltered reviews like yours to get a true perspective on these machines
If my channel was big enough to justify it, I would absolutely personally buy every new printer out there and do a truly unbiased review. I would love to do something like 'project farm' but with maker tools.
Well bought an Ender 7 off Amazon for 250 (yeah i am that guy) after i found my "Ender 3" i bought years ago in the garage. And yeah it WILL do 250ms after some $$$$ in upgrades :P (BTT Kraken, LDO steppers and Orbiter 3, 48v, Eddy scanner, ADXL) still Amazed that costed 700 when it came out :P
Thanks for the honest video - I love it. I don't like FLSUN. When they promoted the S1 I was pretty excited but like you, many others pointed out the false claims, yeck! Originally I loved the specs but glad I waited to see how it would perform. Researched a lot and found that their previous machines had lots of software problems as well. Speaking of Creality, remember the "all metal extruder" for the K1C that ended up being mostly plastic? They lied about that, changed their webpage but their Amazon page still advertises the all metal extruder with 1,000 hours of clog free use. So... now reviewers that Creality sent machines to found out it was plastic, so will it still last for 1,000 hours? Seems pretty sketchy, so Creality is off my list of possible printers as well. With that said I heard Bambu is coming out with a larger build area printer and with their past performance I have more hope. So going to wait and see what they bring to market. Again thanks for the honest video.
I'm a hobbyist who sells and builds models, and I can't afford to spend a lot of time and money buying and tinkering with printers. I once bought a Kobra2 (my main at the time was just a Prusa mini) based on reviewer recommendations and I was hugely disappointed with it's print quality and overall features. One reviewer even went as far as to compare it's print quality to SLA. I was naive at the time. I waited and finally got a Bambu and was able to tackle larger projects w decent quality and speed. But during that period of waiting, time and money was wasted on hardware that I felt lied to about. So it's very important for reviewers to be appropriately critical...I really wince when I see them make recommendations on just a benchy or a limited amount of time actually using the printer. Only to find out months later, on a whim, they mention some major flaw they didn't like about the printer they posted the affiliate link for.
yep! I have many tools in my shop and 3d printers need to 'just work', much like you! I don't have the time to fiddle with all my stuff, I just need to turn it on, print the part and move on.
Flsun is an old company now, it's been around almost as long as reprap, just about. They have always built these majestic Kossel/Rostock machines. The machines have always been quite unfinished, but a good deal to get the foundation and finish it yourself, and they never actually cared about community feedback and actually fixing things, or didn't have the expertise and insight to do it, SOMEHOW, which is mildly baffling, because you'd have to imagine there's clued up 3D printer enthusiasts in China just like there are in Europe or the States? Though perhaps supply-demand issue. Today the presentation has changed to imply a consumer product, but a lot of inherent approach has not, in spite of huge improvements. Perhaps the real best printer is the one we built along the way, and will always be.
I dismiss that idea! Imagine getting a tool from Home Depot and you have to fiddle with it and print a bunch of mods before it works right. I'm not new to 3d printing, but one day we'll get to the point where it's just simply a tool. We should be moving in THAT direction, not away from it.
We live in a free world so we can say what we want when reviewing a product. Except ... for this not being true for a number of channels that live on their youtube income. In order to keep sponsors happy the need views and in order to get these views they - kind of - need new stuff given to them by the manufacturers. This results in a lot of "reviews" that are more or less ads. Presenting a new printer that has a lot (ehh.... I mean some ...) flaws that will all (ehh... I mean some of them) will be fixed in a future firmware release is plain b.s. Finally someone (and I mean you @RobertCowanDIY) dares to stand up to state the obvious. Micronics was already on my blacklist after seeing the first few videos and I'm now adding FLSUN to this list.
You should add YT channels to your blacklist along with the companies, they're just as at-fault. I actually get the sponsorship requests (like everyone else) and I absolutely know which ones make you say certain phrases or only present the product in a certain way, etc. You know that sit/stand desk that's so popular right now? Have you ever noticed how they talk about how stable it is and ALWAYS show someone sitting on it while moving up and down? Yeah, that's in the contract. Stuff like that bothers me, it's not a "sponsorship", it's a paid ad.
lets hope flsun dosnt put bots in the comments
🤖aw shucks!
🤣🤣🤣
As a person that is definitely a human, I'm sure the innovating innovators at FLSUN will innovate their way to a most glorious firmware update that will show all of us human persons what fantastic innovators they truly are. Beep-boop, boop diddly beep beep.
@@Eric-vq9nqYou’re not fooling me, R2D2! Damn android just wants attention still.
Innovation takes time, I’m sure the bots will get better.
I'm happy to finally see reviewers putting it out there and saying 'Do not buy this product'.
indeed
You hooked me at "Get their Sh!# straight" And I agree
I would love to see more of this in reviews! Now "I printed a huge helmet! Ignore the defects, that was probably the filament. I won't try it again because I was running out of time, buy now!"
@@RobertCowanDIY its so stupid, creality has brought out the k1, k1max, k1c and k2 (along with other even lower tier printers ) and all of those were suppost to be a "bamboo killer" and NONE oh those were anything close to what was promised .......just fuc*ing reta*ds....when a non profit like voron can bring a open source printer to market which is better than anything out there other than the bamboo printers
this leaves prusa with there outdated printers and delusional prices the pepoly magneto (Wich is awesoome, id love to have one) but is to expensive at nearly 2k and then the sovol SV08 wich still has to make its place
I really appreciate the honesty of your reviews, lots of youtubers trying to sell us a bambu killer with an 8min benchy forgetting there is plenty more use cases than a pre-sliced toy to print. Great video !
If anything, I hope this video gives other youtubers some pause before trying that tired "bambu killer" line in their next video.
@@RobertCowanDIYtbh I’m kinda annoyed by several RUclipsrs that put out first impressions just parroting their marketing claims while making almost no effort to validate those claims, even ones as absurd as the 110mm3/s flow. The race to get videos out on time to compete for views really hurts their credibility.
There have been so many "bambu killers" released in the last couple years, but in all that time my p1p is still alive and well
@@splitt3r There have been a lot of THUMBNAILS claiming that, but nothing that is actually fundamentally better, like you said.
@@ichisaur Completely agree. I would fully expect it would go: "unboxing, now let's test that flow rate number". That was the first thing I did! That was my first print.
Respect for this. Far too many "reviewers" always gloss over the multitude of flaws most printers release with and tell us to buy them anyway.
I started my 3d printing with an ender 3 pro, got frustrated with it after 5 years of printing, modding, tinkering, fighting with it, and finally gave up on it and jumped on the bambu bandwagon, and it's been an incredibly smooth ride ever since. I started with an A1 mini, now I have two A1s, and A1 mini and I also gave my wife an A1 mini. She's never 3d printed anything, but jumped right in; I showed her the basics of changing filament, adjusting settings and she's been in love with it.
I'm actually excited about the creality K2, but I really don't trust them to release a printer without issues, so I'm waiting for actual reviews. Even then, my bambus have been so reliable, I probably wouldn't buy anything else anyway. I still want another A1.
the community and industry has matured a LOT and it needs to steer towards honesty. just a few years ago, printers were still pretty tweaky and only for true hobbyists. many of those content creators still have that mindset. But with bambu, an absolute noob can buy a printer and be printing parts significantly better than someone with 5+ years experience.
@@RobertCowanDIY That's the main reason I switched form my ender. I got sick of the tinkering. I just wanted to print things and actually learn 3d modeling.
I got an x1c and i love it! Problem is if i don't use bambu labs filament i tend to have alot of problems. Also ive had 3rd party filament from inland break in the ams. Overall though its incredible. Im not super great with tech and ive made probably 30 different things!
@@snuggie1849 Keep at it, once you find good settings for the 3rd party filament you'll be able to save a lot of money by not sticking only with Bambu's filament. Nothing wrong with only using Bambu, but options are always good. 💪
@@snuggie1849 Yeah, for the record, I don't use the AMS and only buy decent filament. That's a really good start. The AMS is nice, but probably the least reliable aspect of their printers.
I can say with all honesty that this is probably the most real review I’ve watched in a long time. I completely agree with regards to FL Sun and what they’re putting out. I remember in 2014 I purchased an FLSun delta and it didn’t work back then either. Says a lot about the company. I’m recently back into printing after a short hiatus, and I fell for the hype and purchased a Creality unit. Let’s just say I ordered a Bamboo Lab unit and it’s currently on the way. I’m tired of the hype and I’m tired of the lies. If FL Sun doesn’t like your opinion, then they should’ve put out a product that they could be proud of. This looks to be pretty printer…but actually is a pretty big embarrassment.
Creality is nice though. What's wrong??
I'm so glad you said this, and as a fan of Prusa printers I have to give Bambulabs the credit that when they release a new machine it's feature complete. My X1 from 2022 has had some great updates but the main features were there and working when I bought it and it just... works.
So disappointed in FLSun and I hope to see them improve.
We're in the same boat. I wish Prusa would get their act together and release something actually competitive, but Bambu usually comes to win.
100% agree. I was torn between Prusa and Bambu Lab. Ended up going with Bambu Lab X1 Carbon, because of what you get for the money, and it's been awesome. No buyer's remorse, for a change.
The question is whether they will improve this product’s software, which seems to be the biggest problem. The next is to put out more realistic specs for the hardware.
I'm so tired of affiliate links on reviews, feels so rampant in this space. Ty for calling that out.
As far as my newest printer, I found an amazon returned ender 3 for 40 dollars and i'm modding it to hell and back. It's the most fun i've had since i started this hobby
I'm guilty of it as well! It's lucrative, but you gotta be able to sleep at night too.
@@RobertCowanDIY I'm sure it's not easy to say no when the option is there, but yeah it's gotten wild lol
If they had just said "this does 50mm/s max flow" people would have unanimously praised it. Now everyone is ripping it to shreds.
Good volume, good price point too... sad
EXACTLY! They didn't have to claim 110! 50 is still great, and it really CAN do that. But, it can't print well, at any speed. I think that can all be fixed, eventually. But right now, the prints look awful.
On the bright side, since the printer is dysfunctional, most people won’t experience the famous FLSun ‘umbilical abrasion shorts out wires and fries the logic board’ feature.
I really loved that feature
Very warming😂
This may be my favorite 3D printer RUclips video of all time. And I was also happy to see you even acknowledge your own videos with the XL. There are some popular 3d printer "content providers" that have gotten really bad about this. Great Video Robert - and just a note - I clapped back at you on your earlier video's about the Prusa XL - but now that they have addressed a lot of the initial issues - I have one sitting in my cart ready for me to hit the buy button. GREAT VIDEO.
No problem at all. We're all humans (well, except for the bots...) and it's hard to review something objectively. In the end, if it works for what you need and the price is right, it's a good product.
@@RobertCowanDIY Yep and part if the reason I was finally able to feel comfortable getting the XL was the follow up videos you published showing the printer getting better. That and the rapid software fixes/improvements from Prusa. Now I'm looking forward to getting mine (I'm of the mind set that I'm willing to pay for quality). Keep up the vids!
@@PaulHuckaby I use it regularly and have no issues. I still think it has some 'maturing' to do, but it's a decent printer. I actually sold all of my printers except for my X1C, MK4 and XL.
Oh nice. Another real, honest review. Thank you for your useful insights, not limited to the Flsun issues.
You bet!
Finally someone tells the truth about the machine! I was a huge fan of the brand since I started my hobby with their "Super Racer" machine and I was happy with the price quality, but after starting a small business I did a lot of research on whether to buy the S1 but the first thing that stopped me was that they delayed the release a lot of the machine itself and the difficult troubleshooting of their machines due to the small audience unlike companies like Prusa & Bambu, that's exactly why I chose the X1C and I don't regret it.
Nice, honest review. I have their older printers. I like the delta mechanism. They are fast, good for organic object, but somehow not accurate enough for mechanical parts. I also hate these unfinished printers and marketing specs.
Same. I hate how this industry just allows it to happen. It's like shop vacs! Have you ever looked at those HP numbers? They can do something like 5HP, but you can only get around ~2HP from the outlet. Just made up numbers.
If your printer is not accurate enough your doing something wrong
I ALMOST pre-ordered one. I'm glad I listened to my inner voice. It took them a while to ship these out, it doesn't live up to the hype, it's gigantic, and it's super noisy. My wife would've murdered me. I appreciate your honest input. I think creators are tip-toeing around review videos so they don't upset or make manufacturers nervous.
yep! and if the firmware gets fixed in a few months, no one wants to have the thumbnail saying "don't buy this" when they could lose out on affiliate sales.
Thanks for sharing . I have one Bambu P1s and one FLSun S1, When I need to print complex multi-color models, I fire up my P1S. When I'm printing larger models like helmets, I usually use the S1. I absolutely love them .
It was actually your honesty that convinced me to buy into the Prusa XL. Between you and Tada 3d printing I figured I had a grasp of the pitfalls. I think OEM's are better served with honesty over endless hype. Thanks.
aww, thanks! my goal is to give people a real life experience with the product. sometimes even the worst product can be the right one for someone, depending on their needs.
Oh snap, this is a spicy one. But yeah, you're right. I usually forgive a *reasonable* amount of "pre-launch unreadiness" such as there being no available profiles - when I get the printer 2 months before it launches. But if you bought this as a retail unit, and there are STILL no profiles? That's ridiculous. Half the features don't even work? Insane. It really has made me reconsider even taking machines before they're 100% retail-ready, and then, not letting anything slide.
For sure. And many reviewers had theirs long before I got mine even.
Dude, thank you so much for such an honest review and saying the quite part out loud. These companies need to be held to the standards they claim.
'saying the quiet part out loud'. this needs to be done more!
Damn, that's a shame... I am so happy to have honest folks like you around to keep us informed. Thank you. It really sucks when you're excited about getting something and then it doesn't meet the expectations... even close. Luckily, my X1 Carbon is doing a good job and hasn't disappointed me, so far.
I mostly like my X1C. It's been a good printer, but I still have a soft spot for Prusa.
Honest and very convincing review. You just demonstrated that being given a device sometimes clouds one's judgment. Thank you Robert! You earned a new subscriber.
as someone that gets given a lot of stuff, it ABSOLUTELY clouds your judgement.
I understand FLSUN just released a large software update for the S1 and T1. I wonder how much that has improved the usability of those machines. I would love to own a delta like the S1, but like you said, I need them to do a MUCH better job with the user experience and hardware (hot end, specifically). Frankly, I could care less about the speed numbers. If I was running a print farm, maybe then I would care, but I'm not. It just needs to work well and lay down quality prints. If it produced prints as clean as the X1C at any speed, that would be great. If it produced prints as clean as the X1C and did it, say, an hour faster, that would be spectacular. And frankly, they should just ditch their efforts at making their own slicer and just build solid profiles in Orca for everyone to use.
I've watched a number of reviews on the S1. I have yet to see anyone slow the printer down to normal speed and use a custom-built profile for a single decent filament type (that they would have to make themselves, since FLSUN doesn't, of course), and run some prints just to see what the machine is capable of, if given the right tuning. That would be interesting. No, people shouldn't have to do that - agreed - but it would kind of prove or disprove the viability of the hardware and whether or not any amount tuning or improvement on the part of FLSUN in future can actually make this thing better. If so, I'd be willing to wait until they got it right and then buy the printer. If not, then it would be back to perusing core-XY and bed slingers, probably ending up with an X1C.
Personally, I'm less concerned with keeping up with the Joneses or having the newest, fastest, shiniest printer out there. I just want to have something that I'll like using and that'll work every time I use it. I'd love that to be a delta machine.
I read the firmware notes and it doesn't seem like anything actually major was addressed, just a few quality of life improvements, but nothing big. I could be wrong though. That being said, I absolutely created a custom profile and had it running quite slow (normal speeds really) and it didn't change much. There was a lot of surface artifacts, salmon skin, etc. It wasn't worth a review even.
Honesty is such a refreshing trait that is often missing on here. Thank you for providing some. Great video. 👍🏻
All I am saying is my prusa MK2 and MK3 are still running. Some care and work here and there but I don't feel any need to get anything newer for my workshop use. The newer competitors may be shiny and faster, but I don't have a use case for an extra printer that actually doesn't add any functionality to melting plastic on a moving surface. I did get a prusa XL because it's big and I needed that size. But it was usable for me as it came out. I didn't care for any of that connectivity or that fangled mess. New updates has made it better, faster and all that jazz. But the hardware is what matters. They can fiddle with software but it will only get better if the hardware is still there after many moons when the update comes.
hear me out... I was the same as you. then I got an X1C. for several months I thought "ok, yeah, it's faster. but the prints looks just as good on my MK3". Then I had some projects that required a LOT of printing. The speed of the MK3 versus the X1C suddenly came into play and prints that I was assuming would be overnight were now just a couple hours and I could get a LOT more done and prototype a lot quicker. The MK3 got sold during that project. I never really thought speed alone could make a difference, but once you get used to it, it changes how you work. Just my 2 cents.
I dont think i have ever seen you this heated!!
Eh, it's time to get real.
You mean in stark contrast to the chamber in the S1?
@@notsonominal haha!
@@RobertCowanDIY understandable after spending 1500$ on shit
@@Basement_CNC I got it at the $1300 preorder price! Which I had to pay in full 6 months before shipping...
I see that they borrowed the code for the filament weight sensor from HP's ink cartridge indicators.
HAHA! Probably. It used to work and was pretty cool. But it stopped working after a firmware update (the update that made OTA updates possible).
Impressibe honesty on your part.
First video of yours I watch, and it's a breath of fresh air
I hope you subscribe, I've been making videos as a hobby for 10+ years and will never make this my business.
The craziest part is how easily most of these issues could be polished out or avoided entirely with minimal work. They could have an intern with solid printing knowledge bust out print profiles. They could have used an existing slicer instead of their own hack job. They could polish the UI with a few hours of programming. They could simply not lie about capabilities. Like, why? Anyways, thanks for the PSA. It really is annoying we have to sort through so much marketing nonsense and all the buddy buddy reviews.
exactly! the community could easily sort this out in a few weeks.
Spitting fire and I'm here for it.
:-)
The print quality is the same as the FLSUN delta kit I built in 2017… glad to see they’re consistent. I was hoping they’d improved the quality, so your rant was helpful. Thanks for sharing!
Don't mess with a good thing! Except it's not :-(
I was just thinking this. I had one of their kits that used v-roller carriages, a dinky 40mm cooling fan, and a knockoff V6, all driven by a RAMPS board. My prints looked about the same. Granted at 1/10th the speed but….
How did it go so wrong for them?
Remote “cpap” cooling, the linear rails, and the modern mobo ought to get excellent prints at lower speeds.
I’m glad I watched this presentation. I had watched this and a review of the S1. It looked like it was a supper printer then real life testing proved it’s not ready for real life.
Pretty much everything you see on it is a paid advertisement. Even in some of those, the print quality is pretty bad.
Great honest video. I found your channel as I was looking at the XL for multi material printing.
I have a WUXN WXR which has been a great first printer, but their customer service is terrible. I think these companies rely on the “influencer” and tchotchke print in place dragon consumers way too much. And as you said, we are all part of the problem by not holding the companies accountable for either junk machines or junk customer service. Keep up the awesome work.
thanks!
Loved it. I am tinkerer/maker but also a photojournalist and I have found myself getting increasingly frustrated over the years with the shilling most channels do. Even some of the supposedly better ones.
I know the drivers behind it, creators need to be on the good side of the manufacturers to be sent early products to review so they can get their clicks and pay their rent - all the while claming they are independent and no money exchanged hands. But it's a dangerously circle and the manufacturers have been gaining power over reviewers because of this - because if you get on the blacklist, you can't review early and hence no clicks, no income for rent. It happened in all consumer goods areas.
Dodgy sponsors are the other bane, like become a Scottish lord and all that BS. But that's another topic.
I think there's a new (old...) way to be creator and a few are going this way but there's room for more. F*ck the freebies, use the Patreon money to buy what you want to review. Be very, very careful and do your due diligence if you take on sponsors. Soon, a lot of reviews will be AI created/scripted so being the super honest, not-on-the-take, independent human reviewer might actually work. Especially if you already have the followers, perhaps that switch is doable. Unless the YT overlords decide to have the algorithm bury you because people are gullible and there are more clicks in feeding them AI content...
I'm sure this exists in almost every other hobby. I've seen it with some tools as well.
Great video. I hope it will help consumers think that a 3D printer is a production machine and not the latest iPhone. The requirements for a production machine are, first of all, reliability in operation, ease of maintenance, and stable quality. This can only be verified by time and not by the statements of advertising managers.
exactly! if your hobby is tinkering with a 3d printer, go and get a voron. it's great for that.
Also the lights on the left side of the screen are just status indicator lights, if theres an issue with printer they turn yellow just so if you glance in at the printer youll know since the screen turns off, also it is a hardened steel nozzle and comes with an extra, Ive run a crap ton of carbon fiber through mine and it prints like its new. The T1 however does not have a hardened steel nozzle.
The indicator lights aren't implemented yet. They're SUPPOSED to show progress of a print and as a status indicator. BUT, they didn't bother to program anything in yet.
@RobertCowanDIY oh mine turn yellow if I have an issue, they did it today when the printer on out of filament
I have to say that I was pretty surprised by Bambu, especially with what they said about their printers. I think Prusa may have been under a lot of pressure to release the MK4 and XL before they were fully ready, given the competition from Bambu.
It's a common problem with many other printer manufacturers. They're more focused on launching new models than improving existing ones in terms of software. Many of the printers, such as the FLSUN, Sovol S8 or Creality K1, have so much potential, but it always fails because of the software and lack of model maintenance. It's more important for all these companies to introduce a new device as quickly as possible because nobody is interested in the previous models anymore.
I'm actually getting a Sovol SV08, since that one was the darling of the YT community for a month. I want to see what it's all about.
We appreciate the information! Having integrity to say it just like you have is something to take notice of. You and Clough42 are keeping quality first!
we do what we can!
Thank you Robert - I really appreciate the effort and time you put into all your episodes. 👍👍😎👍👍
Maybe one day consumer product manufacturers will do the same.
maybe, but probably not. but it will continue to give me content I guess...
I bought one of the k2 plus packages on the first day. I also got one of the first k1 max’s… as much as I hated performing Creality r&d… it has been a fantastic machine. Praying for a similar experience with the k2…😳
Loved the sincere frustration you conveyed in your “non” review. Keep up the good work
I KINDA liked my K1 Max. It was decent, but nowhere near as good as the Bambu or even the Prusa MK4. It was fast, but inconsistent.
After getting the v400 and trying to use their own firmware over and over again, up to an including where they closed off SSH for power users to remote manage their printers... I ended up going with a custom firmware and haven't looked back since. When the S1 was announced I thought. "Cool, they really should fix the V400 issues before releasing a new hot printer though" Sadly, with this printer I can't see them fixing the standard firmware for the v400. For people with the know how to do custom like myself, it's a non issue, but I'm the exception, I believe, not the rule.
Thank you!!! Appreciate the critical honesty. you are 100% right. We need this in every review, from every reviewer.
yep!
I already had respect for you but you've gone up again in my estimation. Love that you've called out this trend of over promise and under-deliver. I also hate the release of products with advertised features which aren't in at the start and only to be delivered by firmware update at some unknown point in the future.
aww, thanks!
I own 2 V400s, and I agree with you. I looked at this machine and decided based on the specs it didn't make since to purchase at the time. I would like to print faster but quality is always sacrificed when you do. And I would much prefer stock klipper on these machines with FLSUN presets vs the stripped down version it comes with.
a LOT of people with V400s are commenting this same thing.
I've had 0 issues with my 2 S1 printers or my t1 printers, I absolutely love it. I know it's not exactly as advertised but I've been getting very good prints off of mine.
I have yet to see anyone getting 'good' prints. Everything I've seen has been pretty rough. Are you getting ringing and salmon skin? If you aren't you have unicorns.
@RobertCowanDIY no I'm not getting any of that, my friend and the ones in our shop aren't either. Now that could be down to the new firmware update but I love these printers.
@@johnmurray3240 I'm glad you like it!
@RobertCowanDIY thanks man, really appreciated your video, not trying to be a pain in the butt at all. Working on these printers is literally my job.
I also have one FLSun S1 , everything is great, but I do not know why so many people don't like it, many don't even own the machine .
Spot on Robert. I refuse to buy another project printer and it sounds like this one is yet one more of those printers. Thanks for fighting the fight!
you're welcome! if something comes along that's worth getting, I'll let everyone know. but for right now, it's bambu and prusa and that's it.
I spent MONTHS learning and testing and learning again how to calibrate and tune and slice so that I could get my FLSUN v400 prints to look good. Finally, I managed to get prints to look almost as good as a modded ender 3. The wonderful great upside is that i could print at 180mm/s instead of 40. I regret buying it.
Oof. And a bambu (or even MK4) straight out of the box can do that.
I watched Clough42's video and surprised how they can get these out with such problems. I agree with not buying Kickstarter printers. My Prusa XL with the 5 tool head was a disappointment that is getting better because of software improvements. I have a Magneto and a Rat Rig v4 on order will see how they work
I bought in to the Kickstarter for the Ankermake's m5 back about two years ago. I have so much regret from that that it has turned into moldy, slimy, regerts. At the time, Bambu and Anker both had their Kickstarters live within a short period of time of each other and I really should have just waited.
I'm cautiously happy with the XL. For my needs, it's working just fine. But it was a bit rough in the beginning.
@@RobertCowanDIY I agree, it was still in the early phases when I received it, now much better.
I just got my second bambu x1c, I've only been 3d printing for half a year. If it ain't broke don't fix it. I might eventually get a different printer but I've had no problem so I didn't need to buy into hype just to spend hours leaning how a different one works
well, you're new to this. a few years back, it was always a constant struggle to get a good print every time.
Thank you for the video! Unfortunatelly, it's too late for me, as mine is on its way. All I can do is hope that it will get some support and profiles for Orca Slicer. The heated chamber thing is now annoying, since I was convinced that I can print ABS and other materials reliably with it. In these circumstances, it might only be marginally better than the enclosed Klipper printers that I already have.
See if you can return it! They took a return on mine. I'd suspect that if you already have an enclosed printer, this won't do anything different for you. In fact, they didn't properly compensate for the z offset when things heat up, so different bed temperatures dramatically affect the bed leveling and offsets. This is something a LOT of manufacturers don't really realize. It's the reason I sent back my QIDI printer as well.
@@RobertCowanDIY Thank you once again!
They just never learn do they.. Thanks Robert
Not when they keep getting tons of preorders. All a company needs to do is make up some numbers, send it to a few reviewers and wait for the preorders to roll in!
Good honest video. This is why Bambu lab can’t be beat cause they actually put the effort into their features. The rest still just market and under deliver.
truth.
Thank you for being an early adopter. So many of us got burned by Kickstarters years ago, we don't go anywhere near them until the product actually ships, and the first revision bugs get worked out ;-)
you're welcome.
I'm 100% with you on this 👍
About the "Killer" click bait. I start to blacklist channels using that term. Those YTubers are clearly looking for views period.
Awesome, glad to hear it!
To be fair to them, you have to play the game of the platform you are on in some respect. This does not extend to the glowing reviews of mid products.
@@BeefIngot good point. Personally no matter the niche, when they use words like "Ultimate", "Mind Blowing", "The Best", "Secret" I refrain from watching the video. Mainly because I know I will be disappointed 😂 Have a nice day!
It's the belts. My v400 print quality changed dramatically after I changed the OEM belts to gates belts. The belts are way too long to have any give, and the OEM belts are like toothed rubber bands.
Yeah? I might have to look into that.
As much as I like Prusa and enjoy using their products, even they fell into the trap of advertising/promising features that didn't exist at product launch. Specifically, I'm referring to Input Shaper on both the MK4 and the XL. Yes, Prusa did eventually come out with firmware updates that supported input shaper, but as a consumer it is bad practice to purchase anything based on a promised future feature.
Correct. And it's still not REALLY implemented since it's not something you can tune or even adjust, it's just a base value for all printers, which seems odd to me.
Strongly agree with your conclusion, some printers come good in the end, but a lot don't.
For example I bought a Flashforge 5m 6 months after launch, the software was hot garbage but has improved, and an open source klipper version is available. So that makes it ok? Hell no. But it was really cheap and is now very good, so the value equation changes all the time, depending on the state of the issues and the price of the printer.
Any newbies are completely fucked though 😢
YEP! Newbies should just stick with mature printers like Prusa or Bambu.
I feel I mostly dodged a bullet when I bought into the hype around the Elegoo Neptune 4. Sure, replacement nozzles are a PITA, and it came with the same useless oudated Cura version, but with a PrusaSlicer/OrcaSlicer profile and some part availability improvements, it's mostly not terrible. Much better than that horrid Ender 3 v2 which it replaced, and of which I still cannot believe that anyone seriously recommended that utter POS.
What I like about Prusa and Bambu is that they have leaned heavily into the 'I just want to print stuff' market, rather than the tinkering makers who keep modding their Enders and Vorons, and don't seem to care that they're basically just being sold unfinished products with each year's release cycle. AnkerMake seems to be making headways into the 'it just works' space too, which is promising.
Thank you for this honest video about this printer and the 3D printing industry in general.
Great open and honest review thank you ❤.
I bought a cheap flsun printer years ago as they were selling them off and the delta motion system is fun to watch but it was rubbish.
Unfortunately there are a lot of deceiving RUclipsrs out there just raving about a free printer, but remember they are not being paid for the review, they just get free stuff and you don’t bite the hand that feeds you free stuff. Also buy this printer so I get more views, a commission and even more FREE STUFF!
Thanks for your honesty
review as it's easy to spot a paid review, at least to me personally. I knew the flow rate was a lie as soon as I saw the hotend and wattage.
AI seems like a way to put higher power MCU's in them and do nothing. I have never seen a 3D printer with AI advertised that actually works. Case in point, the Z1 has an ARM MCU and runs a custom version of Linux. That's why it can run custom firmware. The P1 uses an ESP32-S3 for its MCU. You can get one of those for under 5 dollars US. P1 series has no AI detection but X1 does
I REALLY wish I had the knowledge to build a VZbot printer which is essentially an X1 style printer that's open source and uses AWD (2 stepper motors for X and Y) and has the most insane hotends (Goliath) with a water cooled option for heat creep and fan extender fan cooling. It can hit 75mm/s flow rate consistently according to Klipper from videos on here. It has a 40mm melting zone and it's heater is a 100 watt wire the size of a coat hanger that wraps around the length of the hotend several times. I have also seen it hit 1600mm/s speeds but you have to water cool the stepper motors to do that. I'm not giving up on Delta printers yet though. The VZBots goal was to make the world's fastest 3D printer and they did. They announced their next printer is going to be a Delta printer but there's no timetable
I'm tempted to build one of these kits, but I've been in the forums and reddit posts and people can't seem to show me really clean looking prints from them, they just look average at best.
@@RobertCowanDIY Thanks for letting me know, I honestly never really thought about that. Most videos are about speeds so I just assumed if it could print that fast you could print slower, but still fast, to get better quality but if that isn't the case then yeah, a lot of money time and effort if it's just fast with poor print quality.
That and only one reseller and while a reputable seller from AliExpress that I have purchased a lot of stuff from, but they don't control shipping or customs and that's a long ways are more expensive but easier than sourcing your own parts.
I'm happy with my P1S print quality. I'm not happy with all this cloud stuff. I found a way to just upload g-code files via ftps or curl commands because Bambu is so slow. Just need to move to Orca already .Even locally it still only transfers at 250kbps. That just means it has good coverage because that's the speed limit of the 5 dollar ESP32-S3 MCU. I have no idea who wrote that but because ESP-IDF is apparently the worst programming language ever which is why you will never see custom firmware. Stuff like no PID tuning. It's honestly really simple stuff I miss.. Starting the entire proprietary hotends when they aren't needed. Everything prints great if you use their filament and slicer because nobody has been able to control the entire process like that. Their filament settings are spot on in their slicer though. It also took me 3.ninutes to download a 21MB from makerworld, I have Google fiber so..... You can understand why I do the FTPS workaround. If you want to host everything in AWS fine but pay for the bandwidth you actually need since you engineered the printer software to send a sliced file with gcode to AWS then back to my printer. It's stupid and a huge waste of money for them. For what, to get a model I downloaded from printables or their site and settings used as 3MF is just an archive file, you can change the extension to .zip and extract them to see what's in them
I'm sure you already know this though.
I can't believe the FLSUN came with such terrible profiles. I get that it's different so it's not the same as probably a bed slinger or X/Y but still, that was a joke. If that's their software then that AI promise is sure to never deliver. I also don't know if I' would ever get used to a round build plate
I have been holding out on buying a new printer (SV08) because all the reviews mention features and firmware fixes that it needs. I don't want to pay to be a BETA tester, I want a product that works out of the box. Thanks for your honest review!
I need to get my hands on an SV08, I know they were 'aggressive' with their affiliate program. The popular printers usually just have really good kickbacks or incentives.
I know exactly what you mean. I was ready to replace my Bambu Hotend with a different product. I almost entered my purchase info, but I had that nagging feeling I should check some reviews. On the Bambu forms, I read about this product and all the promises made only to discover its marketing hype. And it wasn't cheap. The new design is an open source design, patented in the USA , making a $20.00 hotend retail for $124.98. The reason I was considering replacing my printer's hotend was due to the degraded print quality on my Carbon X1. If you have an X1, and have upgraded your hotend I would appreciate your feedback as I've tried playing with the printer extrusion settings, temperatures and print speeds. I mostly print in PETG, and my hotend nozzle keeps getting filament buildup. The final print layer used to be clean, now it's streaky and the midlayers are leaving random spaghetti strings requiring more post print cleanup. Even new, out of the package sealed filament. I'm sure it's me. But I have also printed 20ish 2KG spools so far on the original .4 mm Nozzle. Thanks in Advance.... James
Thanks for saying what I have been thinking about the 3D industry and many other FLSUN S1 reviews. This was refreshing and I wish more content creators would follow suit.
thanks for watching!
I got lucky because last Christmas I got the Qidi X-plus 3 and it does what it says on the box (99% the extrusion volume is not real) it prints like a charm once setted correctly. I had a bit of experience (a year spent fighting my kingroon) and I am an engineer so I can understand why something happens when it does. Having said that when the xp3 got out was completely out of whack, it had a plastic frame tha was giving up at the temperature the printer was supposed to operate, binding axes and other funny things. Qidi offered a compensation or an exchange with the new model that has a full metal frame. So at least they rushed things out as you said but at least they owned their mistakes.
I've sent back QIDI review units before. They've had some rough starts on some products. But some of their stuff is quite good.
I'd been intrigued by the Bambu printers since they launched, but it took recommendations from other people I personally know and trust to suggest getting one for work. Even then I wasn't willing to fork out my own money on a P1S until I had used the X1E at work. I've never been an early adopter but I've seen so many people get burned by the marketing trickery and/or the just outright lying or sending reviewers better machines than actual customers will get that I just couldn't really believe that the Bambu's were the paradigm shift that they are. This is all with knowing that it's engineers that came from DJI and DJI is responsible for a MAJOR paradigm shift in the consumer and professional multi-rotor industry..... but maybe I'm overly skeptical and jaded....
I'm not sure from your comment, but did you end up using one and what did you think about it?
@@RobertCowanDIY Yep! We've got an X1E at work. I had pretty high expectations given what other people had told me and what I'd seen in reviews etc. and I was still blown away by how good it is. I waited until this most recent sale and snagged myself a P1S Combo and have likewise been very impressed with the user experience and the print quality and speed.
There are also so many little things that as a mechanical engineer who's been 3D printing since 2015 that are so nice. The fact that the AMS fits inside the printer for shipping is EXCELLENT product design, the fact that it knows when filament breaks somewhere between the extruder and the AMS and gives you an error message that is actually helpful enough that you can easily troubleshoot the issue is huge. The fit, finish, form and polish just feels like a high end product and you don't feel like you got screwed even with how relatively expensive they are (I have 3x printrbot simple metals, a prusa I3 clone and a couple CR-10 clones that combined cost me about what my P1S combo did). I'm also always thankful for how well it works with the "generic " profiles because I have a lot of non-bambu filament already.
I think Bambu Labs really is the kick in the pants the consumer printer industry needed to step up their game.
@@BenRyherd agreed! we need another kick in the pants from someone else, and this isn't it...
I already bought one at launch, because I regarded FLSUN as an established brand with mature products and I was (mostly) thrilled with my V400, but I'm disappointed that this particular machine released so half-baked and over-promised. The AI vision/laser "features" are useless garbage on my first few tests, with false positives cancelling perfectly intact prints etc. The slicer is a joke (but there is already community support including a machine profile and several filament profiles for OrcaSlicer, so I'll look forward to seeing what the tuning ends up looking like once the smart people get through it.)
That said, even though it sits on a throne of lies, it's still bigger, faster, and fancier than my other printers, and it has such promising hardware, I'm gonna do whatever I need to to make it work well at normal and above-average speeds.
I'm mostly with you on that. I think it COULD be fixed, but we shouldn't have to fund their development. I also hope it works as advertised, but judging from their history with other printers, they'll just come out with the S2 and everyone will buy that one, then the S3, etc, etc.
Great and honest review, I really appreciate it. My feeling is also that there is just too much marketing and less of the reality, something like with a hotend stating max flow 70+ but in the underline/testing details you can read it was measured with 1,2mm nozzle printing PLA at 260°C, so an absolutely off the reality measurement, but that is what helps the sales a lot and people accept it. I get that you buy cheap ender 3 and take it as a "finish yourself" printer, but doing the same with 300 or 400+$ printers is weird habit.
exactly!
I think my ender 3 v2 neo, with some minor mods. prints well and i can improve it myself. my favorite mods are a wifi switch that turns off when printer is done, and octopi with cura link. can just hit slice in slicer. I can also do it with orcaslicer now, i just haven't found stuff i need in orcaslicer. I also hear klipper is something i might want to mod in next. i just worry that if i go klipper i will miss my psu wifi off plugin
Agreed! I've been so underwhelmed by the prints coming off this thing, especially out of the box. They've improved a little bit with firmware/profiles but still I'd rather use their older V400 which doesn't make my ears bleed, and produces close to perfect prints every time. Manufacturers need to put in more effort ensuring these products are ready for launch and meet all the claims they say they're capable off.
I hope I made it clear at the beginning of my S1 video that I am not a reliable source for deep technical FDM knowledge, and there are features this thing has that I didn't even know at the time because I just wanted to get it turned on and printing stuff for my tabletop gaming hobby. I put the focus on the out of box experience from the perspective of someone who sucks at FDM printing, and I hope that wasn't in any way misleading despite my own somewhat negative conclusions.
Your comments and your video title don't seem to line up. "This printer is AWESOME" doesn't sound a lot like "I haven't been happy with this and stopped using it."
@@RobertCowanDIYWell y'know, never judge a book by its cover.
@@OnceinaSixSide With all due respect, that just sounds like another way to say 'clickbait'.
@@RobertCowanDIY Well, it's not untrue. The sheer size of the thing is actually awe inspiring, as is the speed, and I don't know who would buy it and what use case they could possibly have for it.
I concluded in my video that the print quality isn't there, the UX is a bit shit (loading/unloading filament), some features don't work, and it's too noisy. There was some other stuff too but this is what I can remember off the top of my head. Not exactly a glowing first impression imo.
I personally think it's a great choice of title and thumbnail because it works to create a curiosity gap. How can it be awesome and have no buyers? Something must be wrong with it, or something doesn't add up here therefore I wanna watch and find out.
YT titles and thumbnails I probably don't need to tell you are one of the most important aspects to get right to have success on this platform, and I take seriously the task of coming up with titles that can create that curiosity gap without crossing the line into pure clickbait bullshit.
I think the worse a video is at delivering on its title/thumbnails curiosity gap, the more it can be considered "clickbait". For example if I titled my video something like "This printer is so fast it can catch fire!!!???🔥🔥🔥😰😰" and then when the video actually has zero mention of any fire risk associated with the fast printing then I will have failed to deliver on an absolutely huge curiosity gap, and that video would rightly be called clickbait trash and piss everyone off who watches it.
But at the risk of repeating myself.. it is actually awesome, and I actually have no clue who should buy it 🤣
As mentioned, if there's any doubt, also watch Clough42's review of this same unit - including the part where the company posted fake comments and tried pressuring him to take down the review.
haha, yeah. I remember him messaging me right when that happened. I was in the middle of doing my video on it.
Nice to have someone calling a spade a spade finally.
agreed.
I got 2 V400 on my own and I love them, Sometimes more, Sometimes less. They are solid and I get beautiful prints wirh them. But you are rigth, the specs they promise are simply not true. You just get one, Highspeed or Quality, not both at the same time.
Thank you for your true rewiew.
i hear you..... Ordered Sovol SV08 - was just amazed by the price and the build volume - and of course being a Voron clone .... Well in the end I noticed i bought it for 20$ cheaper than retail price will be and need to wait at least 2 months to get it. I canceled order - partially due to the Creality K2 with their AMS version and of course 50% off - just 700$. Luckily i could not get in the 50% or the last 20% off.
Was a bit disappointed but then i bought P1S with AMS during their sale --- Im happy i did.
SInce my 1st printer was a Cobblebot from Kikstarter - got lucky just to recive it. and then few ender clones - and all of those printers are more like a toy to tinker with not a printer......
Bambu is really hard to beat, it actually does what it says.
I always appreciate your videos. And you gotta hate that marketing. Way to call them out. Maybe they will keep working on it and somehow make this right.
We'll see. I surprisingly haven't heard anything from them yet. They've been quiet. Maybe they're just working on fixing things?
I use the image feature in Cura slicer. An old version the new version of sucks for images.
I also have two bambulab P1S. I rarely print from stl files but from images. So I take Cura G-Code and change it to run on the P!S. With the Cura G-code it like to jam nozzles and extruders. I have a broke K1 max. because unlike Bambulab who have good connectors Ender is so fing cheap that the connector broke off the head PC board.
My first printer was a home built delta with heated chamber. I used to print in ABS only. While mine suffered from processing slowdowns due to ramps 1.4. I always felt delta printers are not a good solution to 3d printing and their space savings are thrown out the window after you exceed 200mm cubed space! Core XY printers are a better solution overall! My .02c, as for creality being suspect. Yes you’re right about that. I dislike the sneaky update process and confusing hot end and extruded issues they have. Basically people are spending 400+ to have to tweak a machine…
I feel like there is actually hope for delta printers, but this isn't it.
thank you! It's becoming normal expecting that a printer doesn't actually work and people seem fine with it. I bought this printer and I'm guilty, I wasn't expecting the AI stuff to work for example... But honestly I didn't expect it to that bad. Anyway I'm replacing all the electronics now, hopefully I'll have it work (possibly at half the speed)
yeah, we're in the same boat. "how bad can it be?". OOPS.
I bought the V400 last year and I pretty much expected that the specs they were claiming it could do would be... misleading at best. But, I figured if it could do half of what it claimed, it was still pretty good. I'm generally happy with it, doing about half of the speed it says it can do. I have non-print seeks going at 400mm/s and it doesn't skip a beat. I replaced the bed with a fiberglass plate that I clamp down, because for large prints with shrink issues, the original bed pulls up and ruins the print. It works quite well now.
Do you print mostly cosmetic stuff or engineering-focused prints? I think you could make this work for cosmetic stuff, but for parts that need to fit together and hit tolerances, it's a no-go.
@@RobertCowanDIY I print pretty much exclusively functional parts. The dimensions are spot-on for me. I use PETG exclusively as well. I spent a good amount of time tuning retraction, pressure advance, and acceleration parameters.
@@DeanBeckerdjbckr It seems like you got lucky. There are about 100 people in the comments saying they hate their V400.
You're the only person not praising that printer but what you're reporting is definitely congruent with what reprap / duet guys report about delta kinematics. It requires a level of precision in the tower arrangement and rigidity that's going to be hard to mass manufacture at even that printer's price point to get good results. Thanks for not being a shill lol
Right?! I saw other reviews and they just flash the finished print really quickly on camera and talk about something else. But the prints look REALLY bad for 2024. Strange times.
I agree with almost everything. Above all, it is important that the false promises become fewer, so thank you for this honest report and the work! But Kickstarter printers should still be bought. But on honest terms.
But isn't the issue with kickstarter, how do you determine if the claims are honest? they will send pre-release units to reviewers with heavy incentives... shouldn't we wait until it's not just "on paper"?
Best review I've seen! I couldn't agree more with your analogy.
Thanks!
I heard that Mr Sausage clip!
NICE! Someone noticed it!
I did pre order the s1 since I got the v400 as my first Printer on it's release but I canceled the s1 order exactly because of the crappy software it was like a 100% chance for them to fk up the software again. I got the Qidi X Max 3 instead and I'm super happy with it
that's good to hear.
Very much the point indeed and I must say that even established channels like the 3d printing nerd (who I still like btw), is covering kickstarters again, with a warning, but he said to never do that again before. It's very likely that if it's your business to be a youtuber in this space, you kinda have to in the end. There's just not that much more to go on if companies start doing this and the most popular are cheap, Chinese ones. The Bambu falls in that category as well I think, almost impossible to compete with with the wages we have in the western world and they did kill it with their release. Prusa did drop the ball on their latest iterations or sure, but I'm still happy with my MK4 which simply does what I want it to, just at a higher price. Could've gotten a Bambu, decided to support this part of the world, sometimes that can also be a choice, plus I can completely reassemble it if I want to and I love that.
Thanks for this insightful review. I hope the manufacturer(s) listen to you and improve on quality and honesty.
Most likely the reach of this video won't be enough to make any real difference, but at least I feel good about it!
I'm a human and I like doing human things like drinking the water and walking with my foot. FLSUN is an innovative and ground braking company. Innovating and ground braking is very hard to do. Give them your money, so that they can innovate and ground brake better.
HAHAHA! Hello fellow human!
Ah, a fellow human, hello. I, too, agree that FLSUN is an innovating and groundbreaking company. With every new product launch, you can expect things to not be perfect, I have faith that FLSUN will fix these issues. Let's all be innovative and groundbreaking together. I invite you to groundbreak and innovate with me!
Hahah this is ridiculous with bots. Even another reviewer ran into bots, they had their comments disappear later on. Funny enough just like the other channel they land within a very short time. No one describes themselves as Human. People would say I or we, but not I, the Human. Maybe I, the enthusiast or engineer to define expertise and background to help ground their opinion. Hopefully fulsun stops the boting and puts that time and effort into improving their designs and being more objective in their internal reviews before marketing.
@@egondro9157 Hmm 🤔 can’t tell if furthering sarcasm, or if literally believing the comment. Hmm 🧐 🤨
Thank you very much for your endorsement my fellow human. I too enjoy walking amd drinking water.
Your honesty is much appreciated.
thanks for the comment!
This is a good video and more honest overviews are needed. One thing I would like taken into account is that sooo many tool companies marketing claims are extremely BMS. Vacuum cleaners for example quote this ridiculous value called “air watts” which doesn’t even mean anything.
I will absolutely do more of these :-)
I’m glad I waited for A1. Fixed and cheaper. I love it.
Wow, Robert, try not to hold back and tell me how you feel about this printer - lol. Love the fact that everyone is catching on to the lies this company is putting forth. Very honest and revealing video about the product and yourself
I want to make it clear, they're not the ONLY ones. Many other companies are doing it too.
@@RobertCowanDIY I had information that an firmware upgrade came out maybe a week ago have you installed it yet and if so what were the results?
Good review on this I have the t1 in for review at the moment and there are some issues. I saw on the Facebook group that people can’t see why the key issue of releasing products that do not correctly work as advertised is a problem. The feedback from any decent reviewer will be honest about their experience and from what I’ve seen on the s1 they all pretty much align. Flsun wanted these machines to be put up against the likes of Bambu and unfortunately they just aren’t in the same league.
On paper it's MUCH better! It's a bambu killer!
Still look forward to your review!
PERFECT intro. Thanks for the great first couple minutes.
awww, was it crap after that? ;-)
I was so bummed when I got a Voron kit right before this printer was released and I'm honestly glad I got the kit instead of this printer. My printer is now printing nearly as fast as the FLSun claimed the S1 would, but without the lies and bad print quality.
ha, you're good.
Couldn't Agree More...About time a Fellow Honest Reviewer.
A message to you Robert. Please DO keep buying the latest Printer because we need unfiltered reviews like yours to get a true perspective on these machines
If my channel was big enough to justify it, I would absolutely personally buy every new printer out there and do a truly unbiased review. I would love to do something like 'project farm' but with maker tools.
Well bought an Ender 7 off Amazon for 250 (yeah i am that guy) after i found my "Ender 3" i bought years ago in the garage.
And yeah it WILL do 250ms after some $$$$ in upgrades :P (BTT Kraken, LDO steppers and Orbiter 3, 48v, Eddy scanner, ADXL) still Amazed that costed 700 when it came out :P
Thanks for the honest video - I love it. I don't like FLSUN. When they promoted the S1 I was pretty excited but like you, many others pointed out the false claims, yeck! Originally I loved the specs but glad I waited to see how it would perform. Researched a lot and found that their previous machines had lots of software problems as well.
Speaking of Creality, remember the "all metal extruder" for the K1C that ended up being mostly plastic? They lied about that, changed their webpage but their Amazon page still advertises the all metal extruder with 1,000 hours of clog free use. So... now reviewers that Creality sent machines to found out it was plastic, so will it still last for 1,000 hours? Seems pretty sketchy, so Creality is off my list of possible printers as well.
With that said I heard Bambu is coming out with a larger build area printer and with their past performance I have more hope. So going to wait and see what they bring to market. Again thanks for the honest video.
I suspect a lot of these companies just honestly don't know what they're doing! Like with Creality having the X and Y input shaper values copied...
@@RobertCowanDIY Seems to be the case. I didn't know that about the input shaper.
I'm a hobbyist who sells and builds models, and I can't afford to spend a lot of time and money buying and tinkering with printers. I once bought a Kobra2 (my main at the time was just a Prusa mini) based on reviewer recommendations and I was hugely disappointed with it's print quality and overall features. One reviewer even went as far as to compare it's print quality to SLA. I was naive at the time. I waited and finally got a Bambu and was able to tackle larger projects w decent quality and speed.
But during that period of waiting, time and money was wasted on hardware that I felt lied to about. So it's very important for reviewers to be appropriately critical...I really wince when I see them make recommendations on just a benchy or a limited amount of time actually using the printer. Only to find out months later, on a whim, they mention some major flaw they didn't like about the printer they posted the affiliate link for.
yep! I have many tools in my shop and 3d printers need to 'just work', much like you! I don't have the time to fiddle with all my stuff, I just need to turn it on, print the part and move on.
Flsun is an old company now, it's been around almost as long as reprap, just about. They have always built these majestic Kossel/Rostock machines. The machines have always been quite unfinished, but a good deal to get the foundation and finish it yourself, and they never actually cared about community feedback and actually fixing things, or didn't have the expertise and insight to do it, SOMEHOW, which is mildly baffling, because you'd have to imagine there's clued up 3D printer enthusiasts in China just like there are in Europe or the States? Though perhaps supply-demand issue. Today the presentation has changed to imply a consumer product, but a lot of inherent approach has not, in spite of huge improvements.
Perhaps the real best printer is the one we built along the way, and will always be.
I dismiss that idea! Imagine getting a tool from Home Depot and you have to fiddle with it and print a bunch of mods before it works right. I'm not new to 3d printing, but one day we'll get to the point where it's just simply a tool. We should be moving in THAT direction, not away from it.
We live in a free world so we can say what we want when reviewing a product. Except ... for this not being true for a number of channels that live on their youtube income. In order to keep sponsors happy the need views and in order to get these views they - kind of - need new stuff given to them by the manufacturers.
This results in a lot of "reviews" that are more or less ads. Presenting a new printer that has a lot (ehh.... I mean some ...) flaws that will all (ehh... I mean some of them) will be fixed in a future firmware release is plain b.s.
Finally someone (and I mean you @RobertCowanDIY) dares to stand up to state the obvious. Micronics was already on my blacklist after seeing the first few videos and I'm now adding FLSUN to this list.
You should add YT channels to your blacklist along with the companies, they're just as at-fault. I actually get the sponsorship requests (like everyone else) and I absolutely know which ones make you say certain phrases or only present the product in a certain way, etc. You know that sit/stand desk that's so popular right now? Have you ever noticed how they talk about how stable it is and ALWAYS show someone sitting on it while moving up and down? Yeah, that's in the contract. Stuff like that bothers me, it's not a "sponsorship", it's a paid ad.
What you think about t1 ? It’s 2,5 times cheaper but looks similar