In the mid-1980s I trained as a sound engineer with the BBC (at the Engineering Training Centre at Wood Norton in Evesham, and Television Centre on Wood Lane, London). I love Danny’s videos and passion but I’m not going to lie, I haven’t got a clue what Danny is talking about half of the time! I worked every day with Rogers LS5/9s, LS5/8s (and their matching Quad amps), LS3/5s, ATC monitors, and the finest quality recording and broadcast sound desks and signal chains in the UK. I was also introduced to a couple of useful psychoacoustic concepts that render 90% of audiophile lore redundant: 1. Buy the speakers that YOU like the sound of. Each of us has a unique head related transfer function. We all hear things differently. The variance between us can be significant. So don’t listen to what others say - trust your ears when listening to your own favourite music. In music production and broadcast sound, we’re always aiming for a mid-point sound balance that won’t offend anyone. How you experience that will vary. 2. Your brain is not your friend when listening to those instruments which you already have a “library” of previous listenings. I have some top quality acoustic guitars. I know what they sound like when played live. Even if I listen to a recording of an acoustic guitar on a crummy system, my brain rejects the crummy sound and replaces it (in real time) with what I’m expecting to hear. So if you’re already familiar with what a great recording sounds like, your brain will automatically adjust mediocre sound without you having to do a lot of work - unless you concentrate. But why would you do that? A $500 set up today will reveal all of the flaws in recordings made before the year 2000. And then there’s the somewhat uncomfortable realisation when you’re mic-ing up a legendary rock band and preparing to capture their live performance on a Neve sound desk and 2” tape that their gear is the biggest heap of crap you’ve ever seen! Even their records can be horribly recorded, mixed and mastered. And if you’re listening on vinyl, you’re relying on a manufacturing process with often terrible QC. Very often the record libraries at Maida Vale and Ealing had to grade brand new records at low values as they were entered into the inventory! They were often terrible! The whole exercise is one of artifice. If you want to reproduce live sound in your listening room out of an array of transducers from a recording of any media, you can’t. Old recordings are full of unwanted and obvious artefacts of the recording process, and modern sound will have been compressed/expanded/equalised and processed many times before it reaches your system. Just find speakers you like, a good quality 44.1KHz Red Book standard digital source, a clean amp with plenty of power (at least 3dB headroom on your speakers RMS or Continuous power handling rating) and enjoy what it was that got the band and the original producers so excited they wanted to make a record - the passion and artistry of the musicians and composers.
He is talking about selling overpriced components that cost pence to make in China with types like hims mark ups.. U can buy replicas of these speaker 394gbp from china
Just watched this again. My original LS50s are in a closet and periodically I pull them out them out and listen to them. As Danny noted in the review, they have some clarity issues (at least to my ears) so I go back to my 1st "home-built" X-LS speakers.
Missed you. Need my Sensei of Audio training session! Thank you! Almost bought some Kef before taking a chance on the Pedistales! It turned out to be a GREAT decision! Happy listener!
Yes I find the voice on these speakers can sometimes sound a bit veiled. That’s why I wld pair it with a 48W Class A SET Willsenton R800i to bring it out. Spkr wires also make quite a diff , Van Den Huls sound too soft I found , when I used silver wires from Xangsane ( Chinese) , the clarity, detail , imaging and soundstage went up a lot. Ofc spkr placement was critical and room dependent. Finally when I changed the DAC from my Matrix mini IPro 3 to the Denafrips Pontus 2 it was night and day. This spkr needs gd associated equipment for it to shine in a small to med room setting. Ofc with IsoAccoustic on the spkr spikes and def use the S2 Kef spkr bolted to the spkr n filled with sand & lead. And finally it needs to be paired with a gd sub like a Rel or KC62.
So you know more than kef, harbeth + others that's great. I'm going to listen to someone who does silly overpriced diy kits... over respected designers like Alan Shaw harbeth.... mmmm I don't think so.
The entire automotive industry is full of companies that offer upgrades for everything. Do they know more than the engineers that designed the cars? Anything can be improved. We even offer various levels of upgrades for our own products. And our kits are far from over priced. They beat out everything in their price range across the industry.
@@dannyrichie9743 opinion or quantified facts Mr Richie either way I'm going to find out... I'll be purchasing a kit and doing some comparisons myself fun days. It's a long time since I have used any passive speakers.
Whoever brought him that speaker was having issues with fatigue / brightness. But then the review goes on to address the general quality of the parts inside and doesn't address the factors causing listening fatigue.
@@dannyrichie9743 OK. I heard the powered version of the Meta at Best Buy and it was the only time Adele's voice ever hurt my ears. It was painfully forward.
Initially I enjoyed Danny dissections. Now not much. I would highly recommend instead of finding faults with every speaker and then recommending his business as the fix , he could do a real service by recommending speakers that are made well. His videos are at their core advertisements. Now very boring. Always cheesy, ferrous conductors, bad caps, etc. Same themes, different speakers, each and every time.
@@johnsmith-i5j7iThey’re building to a price point. What product is perfect, or doesn’t make compromises The only speakers that aren’t- often in ways most reviewers barely scratch the surface eg distortion at different SPLs, harmonic distortion - and IMD … are likely to cost north of $5000
What would be good is to hear your listening opinion on the speakers before you take them apart and then your thoughts after the tear down and see if they match.
@ paul lazarro . The same way you use a tape measure to see how big something is or weighing scales to check somethings weight or a light meter to check brightness . A huge dip or peak is visible on a graph so is the distortion and the the resonances and the dispersion characteristics and the time alignment of the drivers . Measurements are a useful tool . Hope this helps
There's plenty of subjective reviews of the speakers out there. GR is great as a point of reference along with other reviewers. I check with a few points of view since I can't just test everything at home. No single reviewer has everything sorted out.
Danny, I think what would add a lot of value to your speaker break-down videos would be the inclusion of actual listening impressions before and after any upgrades you have made. Seeing the measurement graphs tell me nothing about how a speaker actually sounds with music. The before and after graphs are interesting and all, but they don't tell the whole story. I know that the better crossover parts should improve the sound; however, what exactly is changing to the bass, mids, and treble while listening to a specific piece of music. Using your first rate listening room to provide your subjective before and after impressions would help the layman grasp the value of your speaker upgrade kits and enable a more educated buying decision.
RUclips is full of subjective impressions that have more to do with one's personal setup, bias, and expectations going into a listening session than anything else. I really appreciate the on/off axis measurements before and after tweaking. That empirical information. Unless a reviewer is doing a blind review in which they are unaware of what speakers they are hearing. That would actually be useful, but is hard to pull off given that most are reviewing speakers being sent to them specifically for their review, setup by them in their own studio, and arranged and agreed to before they are ever shipped to them.
Replacement of a few parts in the woofer crossover will not change the sound by much. I bet most people won’t hear the difference. But what makes the difference are the extremely good cabinet, the 12th generation co-axial driver, and the very experienced team at Kef, that has all the professional equipment that’s needed to create one of the best selling monitors of this generation, much better than their legendary LS3/5a
Interesting ... Main reasons for the "listener fatigue" are: * Too bright sound. * Room reverb. Since the speaker is measuring pretty good, the only reason for the former is other equipment characteristics or settings. As for the room, if sitting closer (really near field) helps, it is the problem that can be addressed in many ways. I own LS50 Meta since they ware released (over 18 months). And I love them for many reasons. They are in use for many hours almost every day. For me, the main trick to have great sounding system without overspending is to have a pair of decent subs. This is even more true for ppl like me having home theater and music in one package. The subs dramatically reduce the requirement for the amp. They also leave the speaker to focus on the job of fine details. I had the opportunity to evaluate this theory against few times more expensive "true audiophile" setups and it proved to be correct. Not to mention that having subs makes speakers placement easier.
"It’s not too bad to begin with" Wow. You can tell this guy has his own products to sell. I have these speakers, they replaced some PMCs that cost twice as much and they walk over them. They have a relatively flat frequency response, and fantastic imaging. Looking at the build, the boxes are heavily braced and filled with padding. The build quality is high, with a very nice matt paint finish. The performance is high.
You might think the performance is high if comparing them to older PMC's. If you comparing them to any of our kits though you realize real quickly that they are far from high quality. Our little X-LS Encore and X-Bravo models will eat them up in all areas.
@@dannyrichie9743 Then you are in disagreement with countless reviewers, and measurements. I have PMC twenty.21, which in my opinion are massively overrated, and they have an awful frequency response. I’ve heard the twenty5.21i too, it’s not good, just my subjective opinion, but I bet it measures poorly. To be fair your speakers do have a much better frequency response than many if not most speakers. I’m shocked at how the likes of B&W produce speakers that are all over the place. I have no idea why so many makers voice their speakers as they do, it’s weird. However, measurements of the Kef LS50 Meta contradict your assertions. And I bet you buy in your drivers, unlike Kef who design their own. I am sure your gear is very nice, I’m not saying otherwise. And probably excellent value in kit form.
@@StillAliveAndKicking_ Yes, I disagree with any reviewer that thinks these are great. They are mediocre at best. The crossover parts are fair to poor. The woofer has an iron core inductors and electrolytic caps. That stuff is budget level garbage. We also do design our own drivers, and after having a lot of Kef drivers in house, I am not impressed. I hate the cone material too. It gives them a very vailed sound.
@@dannyrichie9743 what you mean by hating the cone material, the way its is dampened? Aluminum can sound very bad if dampened the wrong way, but aluminum if done right is one of the best material for cones and tweeters. Not that I like what KEF is doing, but I would choose a good aluminum woofer like the Dayton Audio Reference line over a poorly designed carbon fiber inverted dome or glass fiber cone membrane woofer any day of the year! It is true that paper have those "halftones",, but that is not in the signal, it's just the paper response. I agree with you that these KEFs are really poor. And for the price hike into the KEF Reference, I could build 10 times better speakers with 10 times better drivers in a 3 way fashion. Of course, I would go into DSP crossovers for them. Acoustic Elegance woofer comes to mind, BlieSMa 75mm textreme dome midrange comes to mind and the Satori Textreme tweeters. And this are top performers that can be had for 3k just the drivers. There is also the option of Purifi drivers, I would choose their aluminum cones because I really like how aluminum sounds over any paper cones, if the breakup is high enough so I can cross over in such a fashion that is 40-50db down at breakup point, which Purifi are.
LS50 was my gateway drug to the audiophile world. After having gone through many twists and turns with other brands and mixing and matching many different components and cables, I’ve finally landed on KEF Reference 1 (+REL S510’s) as being the speaker that checks all of the boxes for me. I’m still very fond of the LS50’s and own 3 pair including the newer Meta. Great speakers for the price as long as you find the right component match.
@@martingritsch2340 depends on what sound signature (warm vs neutral) and features you prefer but the best matches that I have found are Denon PMA-1600NE, Denon PMA-A110 (excellent), Cambridge EVO-150, and Gold Note IS-1000 (excellent). All of these have some form of tone controls which I prefer to dial in the bass and lower midrange. All of my KEF speakers including Ref 5’s require subs (preferably REL) to maximize enjoyment in my experience. I love clean, tight, musical bass down to 20hz but I know a lot of people are happy without subs. Honorable mentions for Hegel H90, H190 and Arcam SA30 and AVR30 as well. The Arcams really sing with external DACs like the PS Audio DirectStream.
@@martingritsch2340 I've not owned these or the original LS-50s ... however, by most accounts, it truly benefits from high quality high power amplification.
Hello from Switzerland. Thank you for your infos. I decided to buy them along with Quad Artera Play for my little room (20 m2) connected with in akustik cables and I am very happy. For sure there are other speakers and also better but I arrived at one point where I stopped further comparisons. I like how they look and how they sound. For me it's top. I listen to classics, jazz, and singer & songwriter and I enjoy it. Enjoy your music too and stay healthy.
Do you actually listen to any of these speakers? Or is all just measurements and component critique? I find it interesting you make assumptions rather than from listening experience. “ if you hear a veiled…” “ if you hear a lack of…” Why not just spend an extra few minutes listening to this stuff so you can say “ it uses cheesy components ( apparently everything from everyone uses cheese) but the midrange is actually quite good”
I am certainly no expert but I agree with Barney from about 3 hrs ago - 5 inch 'bass' isn't gonna get it done, regardless the company. they are designed to be used with a Sub , which I would think would clean up the low mids IF the Sub and especially Xover is good. Note, I have Metas, Outlaw receiver, Def tech Sub.....Many might say that's not even 'Audiophile'.....
That's what noticed about the vocals sound of this speaker. It's slightly veiled and muffled. Completely different from my Sonus Faber speakers which are lovely with vocals. Now I know the culprit. Thanks for sharing that information with us. Good job.
A whole lotta snake oil going on. Premium parts create audible differences? Where? How would such parts lead to it sound less like it's playing "through a wet rag"? Where does that "wet rag" quality correlate with a measurable, and how would a premium part change that measurable. And why couldn't any of the issues you bring up be fixed with EQ given that uniform quality of the off axis responses? And blowing $5k will fix that. Unquestionably the LS 50 Metas have their limitation. They won't play very loud, the small coaxial driver won't play into the sub 200 hz region above 95 db without generating unacceptable levels of distortion. But used in an small room with small positioned off axis, it's listening window in unexceptionable, and it will comfortably play 86 db in a smaller room. Definitely a bargain, and will certainly have a higher resale value that one of your kits.
If you think all parts sound the same and we only hear a difference if we can measure it then you have a lot to learn, and every kit we offer will out performance these coming and going.
@@dannyrichie9743 Really? I'm 69 YO and a 45 year audiophile who bought his first pair of Ls 3/5 s's in 1977. I've owned Magnapans, Martin Logans, Aerials, KLH's and Kefs. One thing I know is there's no such thing as an effect without a cause. So what's the cause that allows one part which has the same measurements as another to audibly outperform it? Any evidence your part substitutions could be identified in a double blind listening test let alone found to be preferable? How about in a null test? And fully two centuries after Jsmes Clark Maxwell completely specified how electronic waves behave in our world can you claim there's some property not captured (or apparently capturable) by Maxwell's measurements that has a audible effect in the real world? So what is that property? Finally, Is there some sort of peer reviewed psycho acoustic research that gives credence to its existence, and, moreover, are there any other evidences for this magic property in fields other than audiophile equipment marketing? The Nobel committee awaits to award you it's prize in physics. All I can say is move over James Maxwell and give Michael Farraday the news! 😜
@@nhennessy6434 The fact that all parts sound different (especially capacitors) has been well established in the industry and is a known fact to all but a few fringe guys that have the earth is still flat mentality. It is also easy to demonstrate in blind listening comparisons. We've done it many times. Here is a good example: ruclips.net/video/cDl1hhT4ETU/видео.html
@@dannyrichie9743 I appreciate your experience and wisdom, so I'm not trying to troll here, but what doesn't make sense to me is that you use measurements to tell what needs to be fixed with the speaker, but often, a part of your solution is to replace components, the results of which can't be measured. I defer to your experience but it makes for a logical contradiction.
The LS50 comes with port plugs. One is a donut and would help with port resonance without hurting bass response much. I had the previous gen LS50 and didn’t find it especially fatiguing.
Great assessment as always. I would caution that manufacturer part choices are not only based on budget constraints but also driver synergy and balance. Simply replacing an R, L or C of the same value with a better part may not yield the same sonic signature and balance that was intended by the manufacturer.
I've been a pedophile going on 15 years now. What you have to understand is that when it comes to audio, every little component adds to the overall sound of your stereo system.
@@wicomms The Wireless 2 has separate amplifiers for the woofer and tweeter that are designed to get the most out of them. It also has a lot of digital signal processing, such as phase correction, that is able to enhance the sound by having the drivers work better together.
The frequency response just cuts everything above 18khz. The LS50 is much better especially with rew where you can get a razor flat response. The meta tech just redirects the high end to the back of the tweeter. This is a case where they just wanted to keep selling their most popular box and just changed up with the response curve and presented different as better even if it's not as accurate or pleasant.
if you want to work on a awsome nugget, try get a KEF ACE 9000 center L/R. / its from the earlye 2005s, such a unique HT speaker, i had a 3 front they was awesome, very much. if i remeber correct it had. a active carbonfiber pod inside something something. big sound from a thin speaker. and used the Q series top range units. /
Sometimes, the fatigue comes from too high listening level, trying to get some more bass. I'd suggest a midbass module or a sub for a more pleasurable experience.
"A flat in-room target response is clearly not the optimal target curve for room equalization. The preferred room corrections have a target response that has a smooth downward slope with increasing frequency. This tells us that listeners prefer a certain amount of natural room gain. Removing the room gain, makes the reproduced music sound unnatural, and too thin, according to these listeners. This also makes perfect sense since the recording was likely mixed in room where the room gain was also not removed; therefore, to remove it from the consumers' listening room would destroy spectral balance of the music as intended by the artist." That’s from Sean Olive’s blog. People prefer a downward slope in room for a number of reasons. This doesn’t mean all people, of course.
Agreed ... even further, I'd mate these with a full tilt dipole bass system AND a monopole subwoofer below. Nothing like dipole bass/midbass, and the manner in which it resolves LF... just physics.
While this speaker and the standard Kef LS-50 seems to get a lot of praise, they also get a lot of dislikes too and this is from quite a few well known reviewers here on YT. I am going to say that I am a very frugal person and I have been made quite aware of the hi-end audio industry and that you don't always get what you pay for and one of the big areas this holds true is with speakers. While I had been an advocate of concentric cone speakers in the past, it seems there are a lot of audiophiles that don't like them. I had come across Tannoy in the recording studio realm and liked those, but couldn't justify the cost. I am very much a believer that you can get good sound without having to spend a fortune. So teaming that up with what I said before about not getting what you pay for. I am very much against very high priced audio equipment. Save for a a few decent companies out there, many take you for a ride. While I knew this early on, I had seen one of your videos in which a $6000 pair of speakers had a crap crossover in it and the cabinet had some reflection issues. So that right there confirms that fact. Also, you did a review on a $2200 Focal speaker and it had a lot of issues. When you pulled the tweeter out, it looked like a rinky dink Radio Shack tweeter! In the past, I did hold KEF in high regard, but it seems as if their value has gone down. Namely these LS-50s sell for around $1500 and I do admit I have trouble when it comes to spending more than $650 on a set of bookshelf speakers. It was my wondering WHY these cost so much when I came across the negative reviews. In fact, many that didn't like the sound of these speakers, preferred the sound of the Q-150, of which costs FAR less than these. I did see your review and upgrade of those and even though the parts for the upgrade are expensive, buying the Q-150''s and your parts still costs less than what the LS-50's go for. It does seem to me that companies that I once held in high regard such as Focal and KEF are now becoming "Troll" manufacturers and are overcharging for their speakers. Some people just drop so much money on what these companies ask for, and for what? They maybe get a marginal improvement in sound. It seems the higher you go in price, the less the improvement is. By right these LS-50s, which sell for $1500 should 5 times better than the Q-150, but that isn't the case. Given your measurements, I don't even think the improvement in sound would be twice as good. So why waste your money. Another case in point was when you upgraded a pair of Sony SSCS5 speakers. The point was made that the upgrade costs more than the speakers do new, but for under $400, you ended up with a really nice speaker.
The cap on the tweeter is a little too big. Lower it 1-2uf and it will bring that hump at 4-6k hz down. Then, a 15 deg off axis listening position should be recommended imo.
The owner complaint that the speakers are fatiguing. I listened to Danny but I don't think he really addressed this 'issue'. Danny mentions that it's a little veiled and the treble is rolled-off but nothing points towards a fatiguing speaker. Did I miss something?
I have LS50 meta on Kef stands powered by a Bluesound Powernode 2021 so a relatively cheap system and I love the sound they make. The clarity and soundstage. I think this video starts with the premise there is something not good about them lets find out what it is. I couldn't care less that's there's a component in their that is not , in his opinion optimal. Perhaps Kef chose that component specifically for it characteristics. I am interested in what my ears tell me and not his graphs. There was no opinion on their performance relative to other speakers at that price point. No discussion about what sort of music they are best for. Just a person taking the back off and saying they are built well but eureka here is the culprit , perhaps or perhaps not. To get better sound you will have to spend more , possibly a lot more. No mention of the guy complaining what they were paired to or what music he listens to. It must be the fault of the speakers.
@@bjs7442 My word is credible. Just have a look at those crossover parts in the LS-50 and then compare it to what we offer in our kits. Our drivers sound a lot better as well. It is really not even a comparison.
@@dannyrichie9743 When I buy speakers I try them with my system. When the speaker is a kit I would need to know from someone other than yourself that I am getting excellent speakers suitable for my system. I am not doubting your word but you have a conflict of interest. I see Kefs advertising for example and want an independent expert view to help my decision.
@@bjs7442 Visit our forum at the Audio Circle to get feedback from our customers. Still, you are asking an answer to an obvious question. It is about like someone asking me, how does a Corvette (our speaker) compare to a Smart Car (cheaply produced mass marketed speaker). I own actually own one of each of them and know them quite well, but then they don't want to take my word for it because I might be biased, even though it is not even a comparison.
There is a 2R7 series resistor in the tweeter x over in my Metas! Both the large value electrolytic caps are in shunt on the woofer circuit so forgivable for the price. Yes I agree though, super difficult to upgrade without going to an external crossover
@@dannyrichie9743 The tweeter resistor is hidden behind the series cap. If you don't take the board out you won't see it I took mine out and traced the circuit. It is exactly as the KEF white paper says. 3rd order with a notch on the woofer, so the caps are in shunt, not series.
@@simondart1481 If only the original boards could be easily removed.... Those caps in shunt are still directly in the signal path to that woofer. What you hear passes right through them.
Why not just put in a smaller capacitor in the 2. order highpass filter just to lower the 2.5db peak there? It would absolutely make it sound less sharp and direct, espesially when the music is turned up. Its also hot off axis in the same area so 1-1.5db would actually make it more perfect.
@@impuls60 that's going to cause more issues than it solves... It's going to affect the crossover point, leaving a dip. And likely wont do enough to tame the response in those areas. It's not really "humped up" so much as the top end rolling off as you get further off-axis which is normal for any coaxial speaker.
That ultrasonic ringing can create audible IM distortion difference tones in the top octave. For example, a 10 KHz tone interacts with a 22 KHz resonance to produce a 12 KHz tone.
Would love to see a tear down of Wharfedale Linton’s since a lot of objectivists/measurement focused reviews are praising them. EDIT: I see you already did! I love this channel.
Having watched the video Danny didn't really have anything negative to say about these? Build/frequency/spectral all seems very good/flat/clean but would he recommend them, I doubt it, you should by his DIY speakers with off the shelf drivers because it's all about the crossover😉😉
@@dannyrichie9743 apologies to you but i though I see in one of your videos that you purchased a load of drivers on a buyout which doesn't sound like custom drivers to me but if they are your own designed and spec custom drivers then ok.
@@ohmygodwhatareyoudoing4929 We did buy some drivers from AV123 when they went out of business. We made a little kit out of them and gave them away for the cost of the parts: ruclips.net/video/5HhYRlbGyfU/видео.html It was a great way to bring new customers to DIY.
I've compared these directly to the Totem Sky monitors, and the Totem's were the clear winner for lacking all the flaws you said come with electrolytic caps and cheaper parts, etc. They're decent for their price, but a few hundred more gets you more transparency, soundstage, and low level detail on account of the better parts in the Totems. The one thing these do better, is the complete lack of box colorations. These cabinets are inert as I've ever heard. Heard on their own though, you'd think these were pretty darn good. They're dynamically a bit restricted for a woofer of this size, on account of part of the cone area being used for the tweeter, but they still throw a good size soundstage, so they don't sound terribly small.
Why upgrade it 🤔 All of its measurements were well above average for consumer use. Price is nuts. Wish they were $800.00 a pair. However, most quality speakers start @ $1500.00 & up. That said, I’m still thinking of going for it. If anyone knows of the same or better quality as the Meta’s for $1600.00, please advise.
Do you have any speaker you like? All negative things. Why don't you start a speaker company? Even with a same speaker, some likes it, and some don't. Are you fall in love with your woman after you measuring her specs?
Yes, I have complimented many models and that can be seen in many of our videos. Also, as a matter of fact I do own a speaker company. We are quite successful and our designs have won just about every industry award and show award out there.
They look fabulous and no doubt use high quality parts. I bought them based on the highly praised reviews but i was highly unimpressed with their uninvolving sound. I guess its down to personal preference.
Interesting review but there are several obvious problems. At the top of the list is the uncritical acceptance of a single users anecdotal reports of listener fatigue. Then there is the more serious problem that the frequency response curves that he shows don't really line up very well with other folks measurements particularly Atkinson at Stereophile who is still the best in the business, who does not show quite that degree of treble roll-off nor does his testing show the mid treble shelf, which frankly is more likely a potential cause of listener fatigue. But Atkinson's testing doesn't show really much of either of those issues nor do other reviewers complain about listener fatigue, so once again, he has not really established correlations between the anecdotal reports and what he's measuring. Additionally and certainly a problem for many audiophiles, he uncritically accepts popular memes about putative audible characteristics related to certain crossover parts, memes which have not been held to or validated in double blind testing. This guy knows a lot but not as much as he thinks. And clearly not as much as the KEF design team esp. the head of the team Oclee-Brown who is an electrical and acoustic genius.
First of all, our measurements and John Atkinsons measurements are dead on. I know this for a fact as there have been companies that have sent us products for measuring and testing prior to sending them in for review knowing that they will be measured. Our measurements always match to the T. Secondly, because they know the speakers will be measured by John Atkinson, when they get reviewed by Stereophile, they often send a reference pair. What we get are not reference pairs. We get production models. So there is where the differences occur. Also, we have confirmed from blind comparisons everything I have said about the sonic characteristics of any crossover part. We also use the comparisons of hundreds of others to confirm our own. So you can take my word on those crossover parts to the bank. You also might want to check this video on the 4:50 mark to see what is used inside these Kef's. Those iron core inductors, and electrolytic caps and sand caste resistors are garbage. You can take that up with the Kef design team.
Hi Ray, I am still running my original KEF 104/2 with a PS Audio Sprout. They still sound wonderful. I have been thinking of new speakers, but not sure if newer is better. What do you find better with your new setup? Thanks
My roommate had a pair of KEF top of their line speakers back in the mid80’s. Ran them with the Adcom GFA 555 and matching preamp. They sounded good, really good, but I was in a love affair with my Dahlquist at the time (would stay there until they were stolen). I was just glad we lived in a big townhouse with a floor between us when listening at the same time .
@@20puskinas1992 one of the only sensible things said. I agree, it's such a great speaker, measuring so well.. but heck, the fan base here believe in the fairies that science can't measure. Makes for a great, fun read doesn't it!? What the mind can do eh.
@@MattSB2588 there ton of people in high end audio who are morons... They think that freaking bookshelf need "High end" amps instead of adding subs to add much needed foundation.
I have the first LS50s and I can listen to them for 2+ hours without a problem. But they are very picky with the amp you match them. I currently use a Moon Simaudio amp that I got second hand, previously I had a Rotel integrated amp and the sound is almost night and day, they are very picky with amplification! Also, in my experience they can sound thin with a low wattage-current amp. But with the right amp LS50 sound killer for the price If you plan to amp LS50s with an average AV receiver or a $300 Stereo amp you better look elsewhere
i have this with the Hegel, they sound way better than others that are far more expensive. this guy might want to take his earplugs off when he listens to them 😂
Increase clarity?? In my experience, the LS50 Meta is one of if not the clearest speaker I’ve heard in 35 years. I also think it images and disappears as well in any speaker I’ve heard under $5k. I prefer the fuller sound of the Heritage Special, but the metas excel in clarity and translucence.
Are you saying that all reviewers who rave about these speakers, including Stereophile who rated them Class A and Steve Gutenberg who rate them as one of his top speakers ever, haven’t listened to enough speakers, or perhaps they don’t know what they are talking about?? I’ve owned around 20 speakers and I’ve auditioned more than a hundred, and these are the best near-field monitors I’ve heard under $5K. I agree with Stereophile and other reviewers.
We can, but it's not worth the effort it would require. It would either mean needing an external crossover which isn't a realistic option for 99% of people. Even removing the stock crossover boards to swap out the caps on the circuit is a destructive process. the crossover boards are mounted onto plastic pegs which are then generously glued into place. It's just not practical, and the customer agreed.
Did you watch the whole video? This was explained. Sometimes you are better off spending that time, effort and money on something else. IMO Kefs have always been some what over rated.
If he finds the sound fatigueing for long periods, the issue may be the upper mid hump. The easy suggestion there is to listen off axis where that hump flattens out. It will still sound a little dark due to the continuous slope to the treble, but it will reduce the fatigueing nature. Tone controls might be able to flatten the response depending on the curve of the tone control. Also, the fatigue may come from a room acoustic issue.
I sold mine for that very reason J. Listen to music for around 8 hours a day when I'm home. The KEFS got worse as the day went on. Room acoustics should not have been a problem as I have a Lyngdorf amp with Room Perfect. Purchased a pair of JBL L82 Classics and they are perfect. Less harsh, more low end due to larger drivers. The soundstage isn't as wide as the KEFs but I can take that as they aren't fatiguing at all. Maybe as I listen to old soul and reggae on vinyl a lot is the reason why the JBLs are better.
@@stephenjon3502 yeah, jbl didn't design the L-82's for soundstaging. They built them for tone, texture & dynamics. But don't think that room perfect will fix room acoustic issues. While it can help, it won't completely undo bad acoustics. Physics can't be fooled. God created physics. He is not going to suspend physics because you bought a fancy digital processor. As for me, I can't listen to digital for very long before the digital hash splits my brain in two. Going to high resolution helps but then the fine details and lack of level gradations keep it from sounding real for me. Glad to hear you found a better solution in the L-82s. I had a boss that had an original set if L-82s. Glad jbl is keeping the heritage going.
I would like to see that data. Seems to me that it’s a little more complex and often comes down to terrible rooms, lack of treatment and many more variables. Pointing at flat speakers as being the culprit seems like a stretch imo. Granted, there might be some valid cases out there but I’d wager, the parts used in the speaker might actually be part of that problem.
You can find information how to tweak the KEF LS50 (no Meta) when searching for "KEF LS50 Tonfeile Pimp" and "Pimp my KEF LS50" (all in German). It provides information how to open the cabinet by removing the front baffle via 4 screws from the back (may be different on the Meta version?), a suggestion for an alternative bass driver crossover and some nice pictures showing the build and parts quality. I recently shortly listened to the LS50 Meta and was not 100% satisfied, especially cabinet vibrations where a little bit disappointing to me, maybe it is because the front baffle seems not be screwed instead of glued to the cabinet.
For the price I couldn't find a better sounding, or looking speaker than the LS50, because there isn't any. I have owned quite a few different speakers, somewhere around 50 or so. I also use to build my own speakers, and although they were quite good, with high quality parts, inert cabinets, and exotic wood veneers, I couldn't compete. Fin. Thanks KEF!?! lol
If you build your own speakers there are several better in diy. Madisound has a few scan speak kits that would probably compete with Wilson audio. I happen to have a bookshelf that would compete with the b&w 802s. Not to put you down but the kefs fall apart when you play anything by 2 cellos. Anything with warmth like cellos sounds horrid on those.
Yes I find the voice on these speakers can sometimes sound a bit veiled. That’s why I wld pair it with a 48W Class A SET Willsenton R800i to bring it out. Spkr wires also make quite a diff , Van Den Huls sound too soft I found , when I used silver wires from Xangsane ( Chinese) , the clarity, detail , imaging and soundstage went up a lot. Ofc spkr placement was critical and room dependent. Finally when I changed the DAC from my Matrix mini IPro 3 to the Denafrips Pontus 2 it was night and day. This spkr needs gd associated equipment for it to shine in a small to med room setting. Ofc with IsoAccoustic on the spkr spikes and def use the S2 Kef spkr bolted to the spkr n filled with sand & lead. And finally it needs to be paired with a gd sub like a Rel or KC62.
@@V1ralB1ack BTW I rolled the tubes on the Willsenton - the 6SN7 and the 300B to PSVane Western Electric , the improvement is quite substantial. Next I will change the 805s. I paired it with the Rel T5X sub. And that’s about it.
@@robertwang7825 That's wonderful to hear. Rel subs are amazing. I have different components but same exact idea. An r2r dac, willsenton r300b tube amp (the new version), foam block between the stands and speakers. Filled with sand and sealed with some candle wax. Ive tried to find better but have failed. This is my ultimate setup.
KEF, like B&W and others, expect you to buy their ultra flagship models if you want the BEST crossover networks WiTHOUT CHEESE. You'd have to buy the KEF BLADE at $30,000 plus to get a high-quality crossover network that matches the quality of Danny's, GR Research/NX Series speakers!
KEF speakers require 50-100 hours to break in, it’s normal for these to be ‘bright and tight’ until then. Fatiguing? Never… perhaps the wrong amp? They have invested millions in R&D, as an engineer I know anything components and speakers or anything for that matter are designed to meet a price point in the marketplace….These are very highly regarded, our customers love them.
Room treatment and speaker placement is the issue. Even with a "bright" amp, you can make the LS50M much more warm sounding by doing a bit of acoustic treatment and placing speakers more off-axis.
well that 50 -100 hours are needed to get familiarized to the new signature sound... lol 4:54 nice chinese caps, that`s what im thinking the voice area is really compromised!! i hate that speakers
@@camelazo Yeah, I can't hear any difference what comes to break in (mostly just getting used to new speaker sound). I still can't understand how someone can hate this speaker (insane build quality, good overall performance, measures well, etc.) I understand if someone hates overly bright speakers that are a pain to listen to, but these even measure well in most of the test I have seen. Pair LS50M with sub(s) and you have a solid speaker system for a small to medium size rooms. There are better speakers, for sure, but I find it hard to hate if speakers are optimally placed with good room acoustics.
To the owner, have you tried aiming them so their center points cross over a bit in front of the listening position? This technique is sometimes recommended for coaxial drivers to make them feel less ‘beamy’.
I am in no way any where near qualified to give a solution to what makes this speaker good ... Correct me if I'm wrong , the factors to evaluate a speakers performance should be the amp, the source component(s) and the music production.. (short of the internal components) I'm a cd person and all cd's are not created equal.. the engineering in all cd's are very different.. One may sound great on that speaker and another may not live up to the same.. Change amps change cd players and change cd's and you will get a totally different sound
In the mid-1980s I trained as a sound engineer with the BBC (at the Engineering Training Centre at Wood Norton in Evesham, and Television Centre on Wood Lane, London). I love Danny’s videos and passion but I’m not going to lie, I haven’t got a clue what Danny is talking about half of the time! I worked every day with Rogers LS5/9s, LS5/8s (and their matching Quad amps), LS3/5s, ATC monitors, and the finest quality recording and broadcast sound desks and signal chains in the UK.
I was also introduced to a couple of useful psychoacoustic concepts that render 90% of audiophile lore redundant:
1. Buy the speakers that YOU like the sound of. Each of us has a unique head related transfer function. We all hear things differently. The variance between us can be significant. So don’t listen to what others say - trust your ears when listening to your own favourite music. In music production and broadcast sound, we’re always aiming for a mid-point sound balance that won’t offend anyone. How you experience that will vary.
2. Your brain is not your friend when listening to those instruments which you already have a “library” of previous listenings. I have some top quality acoustic guitars. I know what they sound like when played live. Even if I listen to a recording of an acoustic guitar on a crummy system, my brain rejects the crummy sound and replaces it (in real time) with what I’m expecting to hear. So if you’re already familiar with what a great recording sounds like, your brain will automatically adjust mediocre sound without you having to do a lot of work - unless you concentrate. But why would you do that? A $500 set up today will reveal all of the flaws in recordings made before the year 2000.
And then there’s the somewhat uncomfortable realisation when you’re mic-ing up a legendary rock band and preparing to capture their live performance on a Neve sound desk and 2” tape that their gear is the biggest heap of crap you’ve ever seen! Even their records can be horribly recorded, mixed and mastered. And if you’re listening on vinyl, you’re relying on a manufacturing process with often terrible QC. Very often the record libraries at Maida Vale and Ealing had to grade brand new records at low values as they were entered into the inventory! They were often terrible!
The whole exercise is one of artifice. If you want to reproduce live sound in your listening room out of an array of transducers from a recording of any media, you can’t. Old recordings are full of unwanted and obvious artefacts of the recording process, and modern sound will have been compressed/expanded/equalised and processed many times before it reaches your system.
Just find speakers you like, a good quality 44.1KHz Red Book standard digital source, a clean amp with plenty of power (at least 3dB headroom on your speakers RMS or Continuous power handling rating) and enjoy what it was that got the band and the original producers so excited they wanted to make a record - the passion and artistry of the musicians and composers.
could you elaborate?
He is talking about selling overpriced components that cost pence to make in China with types like hims mark ups.. U can buy replicas of these speaker 394gbp from china
Very well said Mr. Robert Dowell. Totally agree and it is logical.
@@carewser 😂
Thanks for writing that! Was so insightful to read
Just watched this again. My original LS50s are in a closet and periodically I pull them out them out and listen to them. As Danny noted in the review, they have some clarity issues (at least to my ears) so I go back to my 1st "home-built" X-LS speakers.
Thank you Danny for what you do! Hello from East Texas.
Missed you. Need my Sensei of Audio training session! Thank you! Almost bought some Kef before taking a chance on the Pedistales! It turned out to be a GREAT decision! Happy listener!
The whole front baffle is on 4 bolts that go trough back so you can take it off!
Nope. Not with the LS50 Meta anymore.
Yes I find the voice on these speakers can sometimes sound a bit veiled. That’s why I wld pair it with a 48W Class A SET Willsenton R800i to bring it out. Spkr wires also make quite a diff , Van Den Huls sound too soft I found , when I used silver wires from Xangsane ( Chinese) , the clarity, detail , imaging and soundstage went up a lot. Ofc spkr placement was critical and room dependent. Finally when I changed the DAC from my Matrix mini IPro 3 to the Denafrips Pontus 2 it was night and day. This spkr needs gd associated equipment for it to shine in a small to med room setting. Ofc with IsoAccoustic on the spkr spikes and def use the S2 Kef spkr bolted to the spkr n filled with sand & lead. And finally it needs to be paired with a gd sub like a Rel or KC62.
So you know more than kef, harbeth + others that's great. I'm going to listen to someone who does silly overpriced diy kits... over respected designers like Alan Shaw harbeth.... mmmm I don't think so.
The entire automotive industry is full of companies that offer upgrades for everything. Do they know more than the engineers that designed the cars? Anything can be improved. We even offer various levels of upgrades for our own products. And our kits are far from over priced. They beat out everything in their price range across the industry.
@@dannyrichie9743 opinion or quantified facts Mr Richie either way I'm going to find out... I'll be purchasing a kit and doing some comparisons myself fun days. It's a long time since I have used any passive speakers.
Whoever brought him that speaker was having issues with fatigue / brightness. But then the review goes on to address the general quality of the parts inside and doesn't address the factors causing listening fatigue.
Those parts are part of the problem.
@@dannyrichie9743 OK. I heard the powered version of the Meta at Best Buy and it was the only time Adele's voice ever hurt my ears. It was painfully forward.
What you do is pair it up with warmer dac/amp. Problem solved.
@@StefanUrkel A tonality change from DAC won't solve the smearing caused by the poor quality crossover parts.
Wondering how these KEFs compare to the NX Studios.
They don't even compare to our X-LS Encores. The NX-Studios are way out of their league.
hi danny its not all about the measurements we all know that
Yep, those cheap parts can really eat up performance.
Why would someone pay to have their new speakers broken into!!!!!!!!!
To figure out if they can be improved.
Initially I enjoyed Danny dissections. Now not much. I would highly recommend instead of finding faults with every speaker and then recommending his business as the fix , he could do a real service by recommending speakers that are made well. His videos are at their core advertisements. Now very boring. Always cheesy, ferrous conductors, bad caps, etc. Same themes, different speakers, each and every time.
Well that means they're cheapening out in parts
Agreed
So true.
@@johnsmith-i5j7iThey’re building to a price point. What product is perfect, or doesn’t make compromises
The only speakers that aren’t- often in ways most reviewers barely scratch the surface eg distortion at different SPLs, harmonic distortion - and IMD … are likely to cost north of $5000
What would be good is to hear your listening opinion on the speakers before you take them apart and then your thoughts after the tear down and see if they match.
How does one listen to a chart? LOL
@ paul lazarro . The same way you use a tape measure to see how big something is or weighing scales to check somethings weight or a light meter to check brightness . A huge dip or peak is visible on a graph so is the distortion and the the resonances and the dispersion characteristics and the time alignment of the drivers . Measurements are a useful tool . Hope this helps
he only assumes it will sound better after the mods. Steel nuts, BS
There's plenty of subjective reviews of the speakers out there. GR is great as a point of reference along with other reviewers. I check with a few points of view since I can't just test everything at home. No single reviewer has everything sorted out.
Danny, I think what would add a lot of value to your speaker break-down videos would be the inclusion of actual listening impressions before and after any upgrades you have made. Seeing the measurement graphs tell me nothing about how a speaker actually sounds with music. The before and after graphs are interesting and all, but they don't tell the whole story. I know that the better crossover parts should improve the sound; however, what exactly is changing to the bass, mids, and treble while listening to a specific piece of music. Using your first rate listening room to provide your subjective before and after impressions would help the layman grasp the value of your speaker upgrade kits and enable a more educated buying decision.
RUclips is full of subjective impressions that have more to do with one's personal setup, bias, and expectations going into a listening session than anything else. I really appreciate the on/off axis measurements before and after tweaking. That empirical information. Unless a reviewer is doing a blind review in which they are unaware of what speakers they are hearing. That would actually be useful, but is hard to pull off given that most are reviewing speakers being sent to them specifically for their review, setup by them in their own studio, and arranged and agreed to before they are ever shipped to them.
Replacement of a few parts in the woofer crossover will not change the sound by much. I bet most people won’t hear the difference. But what makes the difference are the extremely good cabinet, the 12th generation co-axial driver, and the very experienced team at Kef, that has all the professional equipment that’s needed to create one of the best selling monitors of this generation, much better than their legendary LS3/5a
Great suggestion 👌
ok boomer
Amen!
Interesting ... Main reasons for the "listener fatigue" are:
* Too bright sound.
* Room reverb.
Since the speaker is measuring pretty good, the only reason for the former is other equipment characteristics or settings. As for the room, if sitting closer (really near field) helps, it is the problem that can be addressed in many ways.
I own LS50 Meta since they ware released (over 18 months). And I love them for many reasons. They are in use for many hours almost every day.
For me, the main trick to have great sounding system without overspending is to have a pair of decent subs. This is even more true for ppl like me having home theater and music in one package. The subs dramatically reduce the requirement for the amp. They also leave the speaker to focus on the job of fine details. I had the opportunity to evaluate this theory against few times more expensive "true audiophile" setups and it proved to be correct. Not to mention that having subs makes speakers placement easier.
"It’s not too bad to begin with" Wow. You can tell this guy has his own products to sell. I have these speakers, they replaced some PMCs that cost twice as much and they walk over them. They have a relatively flat frequency response, and fantastic imaging. Looking at the build, the boxes are heavily braced and filled with padding. The build quality is high, with a very nice matt paint finish. The performance is high.
You might think the performance is high if comparing them to older PMC's. If you comparing them to any of our kits though you realize real quickly that they are far from high quality. Our little X-LS Encore and X-Bravo models will eat them up in all areas.
@@dannyrichie9743 Then you are in disagreement with countless reviewers, and measurements. I have PMC twenty.21, which in my opinion are massively overrated, and they have an awful frequency response. I’ve heard the twenty5.21i too, it’s not good, just my subjective opinion, but I bet it measures poorly. To be fair your speakers do have a much better frequency response than many if not most speakers. I’m shocked at how the likes of B&W produce speakers that are all over the place. I have no idea why so many makers voice their speakers as they do, it’s weird. However, measurements of the Kef LS50 Meta contradict your assertions. And I bet you buy in your drivers, unlike Kef who design their own. I am sure your gear is very nice, I’m not saying otherwise. And probably excellent value in kit form.
@@StillAliveAndKicking_ Yes, I disagree with any reviewer that thinks these are great. They are mediocre at best. The crossover parts are fair to poor. The woofer has an iron core inductors and electrolytic caps. That stuff is budget level garbage.
We also do design our own drivers, and after having a lot of Kef drivers in house, I am not impressed. I hate the cone material too. It gives them a very vailed sound.
@@dannyrichie9743 what you mean by hating the cone material, the way its is dampened? Aluminum can sound very bad if dampened the wrong way, but aluminum if done right is one of the best material for cones and tweeters. Not that I like what KEF is doing, but I would choose a good aluminum woofer like the Dayton Audio Reference line over a poorly designed carbon fiber inverted dome or glass fiber cone membrane woofer any day of the year!
It is true that paper have those "halftones",, but that is not in the signal, it's just the paper response.
I agree with you that these KEFs are really poor. And for the price hike into the KEF Reference, I could build 10 times better speakers with 10 times better drivers in a 3 way fashion. Of course, I would go into DSP crossovers for them. Acoustic Elegance woofer comes to mind, BlieSMa 75mm textreme dome midrange comes to mind and the Satori Textreme tweeters. And this are top performers that can be had for 3k just the drivers. There is also the option of Purifi drivers, I would choose their aluminum cones because I really like how aluminum sounds over any paper cones, if the breakup is high enough so I can cross over in such a fashion that is 40-50db down at breakup point, which Purifi are.
The binding posts... of course, it's the binding posts!
LS50 was my gateway drug to the audiophile world. After having gone through many twists and turns with other brands and mixing and matching many different components and cables, I’ve finally landed on KEF Reference 1 (+REL S510’s) as being the speaker that checks all of the boxes for me. I’m still very fond of the LS50’s and own 3 pair including the newer Meta. Great speakers for the price as long as you find the right component match.
Which amplifier would you recommend? Thanks
@@martingritsch2340 depends on what sound signature (warm vs neutral) and features you prefer but the best matches that I have found are Denon PMA-1600NE, Denon PMA-A110 (excellent), Cambridge EVO-150, and Gold Note IS-1000 (excellent). All of these have some form of tone controls which I prefer to dial in the bass and lower midrange. All of my KEF speakers including Ref 5’s require subs (preferably REL) to maximize enjoyment in my experience. I love clean, tight, musical bass down to 20hz but I know a lot of people are happy without subs. Honorable mentions for Hegel H90, H190 and Arcam SA30 and AVR30 as well. The Arcams really sing with external DACs like the PS Audio DirectStream.
@@martingritsch2340
I've not owned these or the original LS-50s ... however, by most accounts, it truly benefits from high quality high power amplification.
@@CaptainCrunch823 Many thanks for your competent and detailed answer.
I like the LS50 meta very much, but I also have no comparison.
@@FOH3663 Many thanks for your answer.
Hello from Switzerland. Thank you for your infos. I decided to buy them along with Quad Artera Play for my little room (20 m2) connected with in akustik cables and I am very happy. For sure there are other speakers and also better but I arrived at one point where I stopped further comparisons. I like how they look and how they sound. For me it's top. I listen to classics, jazz, and singer & songwriter and I enjoy it. Enjoy your music too and stay healthy.
Do you actually listen to any of these speakers? Or is all just measurements and component critique? I find it interesting you make assumptions rather than from listening experience. “ if you hear a veiled…” “ if you hear a lack of…” Why not just spend an extra few minutes listening to this stuff so you can say “ it uses cheesy components ( apparently everything from everyone uses cheese) but the midrange is actually quite good”
I am certainly no expert but I agree with Barney from about 3 hrs ago - 5 inch 'bass' isn't gonna get it done, regardless the company. they are designed to be used with a Sub , which I would think would clean up the low mids IF the Sub and especially Xover is good. Note, I have Metas, Outlaw receiver, Def tech Sub.....Many might say that's not even 'Audiophile'.....
The Outlaw is a wonderful receiver !
I truly doubt these sound like a wet rag. lol
That's what noticed about the vocals sound of this speaker. It's slightly veiled and muffled. Completely different from my Sonus Faber speakers which are lovely with vocals. Now I know the culprit. Thanks for sharing that information with us. Good job.
A whole lotta snake oil going on. Premium parts create audible differences? Where? How would such parts lead to it sound less like it's playing "through a wet rag"? Where does that "wet rag" quality correlate with a measurable, and how would a premium part change that measurable. And why couldn't any of the issues you bring up be fixed with EQ given that uniform quality of the off axis responses? And blowing $5k will fix that.
Unquestionably the LS 50 Metas have their limitation. They won't play very loud, the small coaxial driver won't play into the sub 200 hz region above 95 db without generating unacceptable levels of distortion. But used in an small room with small positioned off axis, it's listening window in unexceptionable, and it will comfortably play 86 db in a smaller room. Definitely a bargain, and will certainly have a higher resale value that one of your kits.
If you think all parts sound the same and we only hear a difference if we can measure it then you have a lot to learn, and every kit we offer will out performance these coming and going.
@@dannyrichie9743 Really? I'm 69 YO and a 45 year audiophile who bought his first pair of Ls 3/5 s's in 1977. I've owned Magnapans, Martin Logans, Aerials, KLH's and Kefs.
One thing I know is there's no such thing as an effect without a cause. So what's the cause that allows one part which has the same measurements as another to audibly outperform it? Any evidence your part substitutions could be identified in a double blind listening test let alone found to be preferable? How about in a null test? And fully two centuries after Jsmes Clark Maxwell completely specified how electronic waves behave in our world can you claim there's some property not captured (or apparently capturable) by Maxwell's measurements that has a audible effect in the real world? So what is that property? Finally, Is there some sort of peer reviewed psycho acoustic research that gives credence to its existence, and, moreover, are there any other evidences for this magic property in fields other than audiophile equipment marketing?
The Nobel committee awaits to award you it's prize in physics. All I can say is move over James Maxwell and give Michael Farraday the news! 😜
@@nhennessy6434 The fact that all parts sound different (especially capacitors) has been well established in the industry and is a known fact to all but a few fringe guys that have the earth is still flat mentality.
It is also easy to demonstrate in blind listening comparisons. We've done it many times. Here is a good example: ruclips.net/video/cDl1hhT4ETU/видео.html
@@dannyrichie9743 I appreciate your experience and wisdom, so I'm not trying to troll here, but what doesn't make sense to me is that you use measurements to tell what needs to be fixed with the speaker, but often, a part of your solution is to replace components, the results of which can't be measured. I defer to your experience but it makes for a logical contradiction.
@@nathandaniels4823 No contradiction at all. Cheap or high parts quality can have just as much to with with how something sounds as anything else.
The LS50 comes with port plugs. One is a donut and would help with port resonance without hurting bass response much.
I had the previous gen LS50 and didn’t find it especially fatiguing.
If anything you would expect some low frequency extension from plugging the port. You might lose some SPL, of course.
Great assessment as always. I would caution that manufacturer part choices are not only based on budget constraints but also driver synergy and balance. Simply replacing an R, L or C of the same value with a better part may not yield the same sonic signature and balance that was intended by the manufacturer.
Well said. It's a great speaker, I listen to these at a cafe every morning..
Exactly.
All speakers suck unless you buy parts from GR
I love your sarcasm.
Especially the tube connectors
@@giriprasadkotte9876 😄 Tu-be or not Tu-be, that is the question
Yeah, that's the sales pitch anyway.
7:04 Also if you put more big inductors in, the box will have less internal volume that will affect the bass.
crossover in a separate enclosure, I say why not?
Anders Ertzeid from Hegel uses those with a H590 in his personal system so they must be doing something right 😅
I really have gotten hooked on watching these "Speaker Upgrade" videos by Danny. So much so, that I can't wait to see him release some new ones..
get a cheap endoscope to investigate the ports....
Man, audiophiles really do over-think stuff.
It's like saying, overpaid or overjoyed.
Sure, maybe, but we prefer it to the alternative.
Man. Einstein sure did some over-think back in the day….
You can’t over think quality. Also when you feel others might be overthinking, pause and wonder if maybe it’s actually you that is under-thinking.
I've been a pedophile going on 15 years now. What you have to understand is that when it comes to audio, every little component adds to the overall sound of your stereo system.
@@CoomerGremlinDGGfan ayo?
I went straight for the LS50 Wireless II, thanks to a nice open box deal from Crutchfield. I am thrilled with it!
Hi Cavey, I heard the Ls 50 and then I heard the wireless 2..I was blown away. How come their own amplification is better?
@@wicomms The Wireless 2 has separate amplifiers for the woofer and tweeter that are designed to get the most out of them. It also has a lot of digital signal processing, such as phase correction, that is able to enhance the sound by having the drivers work better together.
@@CaveyMoth thanks
The frequency response just cuts everything above 18khz. The LS50 is much better especially with rew where you can get a razor flat response. The meta tech just redirects the high end to the back of the tweeter. This is a case where they just wanted to keep selling their most popular box and just changed up with the response curve and presented different as better even if it's not as accurate or pleasant.
if you want to work on a awsome nugget, try get a KEF ACE 9000 center L/R. / its from the earlye 2005s, such a unique HT speaker, i had a 3 front they was awesome, very much.
if i remeber correct it had. a active carbonfiber pod inside something something. big sound from a thin speaker. and used the Q series top range units.
/
Q350 please, im sure you can modify it Sir. Nice video
Sometimes, the fatigue comes from too high listening level, trying to get some more bass. I'd suggest a midbass module or a sub for a more pleasurable experience.
"A flat in-room target response is clearly not the optimal target curve for room equalization. The preferred room corrections have a target response that has a smooth downward slope with increasing frequency. This tells us that listeners prefer a certain amount of natural room gain. Removing the room gain, makes the reproduced music sound unnatural, and too thin, according to these listeners. This also makes perfect sense since the recording was likely mixed in room where the room gain was also not removed; therefore, to remove it from the consumers' listening room would destroy spectral balance of the music as intended by the artist."
That’s from Sean Olive’s blog.
People prefer a downward slope in room for a number of reasons. This doesn’t mean all people, of course.
Agreed ... even further, I'd mate these with a full tilt dipole bass system AND a monopole subwoofer below.
Nothing like dipole bass/midbass, and the manner in which it resolves LF... just physics.
I have 7 of these -- a 5.1 and 2.1 -- love them!
While this speaker and the standard Kef LS-50 seems to get a lot of praise, they also get a lot of dislikes too and this is from quite a few well known reviewers here on YT. I am going to say that I am a very frugal person and I have been made quite aware of the hi-end audio industry and that you don't always get what you pay for and one of the big areas this holds true is with speakers. While I had been an advocate of concentric cone speakers in the past, it seems there are a lot of audiophiles that don't like them. I had come across Tannoy in the recording studio realm and liked those, but couldn't justify the cost. I am very much a believer that you can get good sound without having to spend a fortune. So teaming that up with what I said before about not getting what you pay for. I am very much against very high priced audio equipment. Save for a a few decent companies out there, many take you for a ride. While I knew this early on, I had seen one of your videos in which a $6000 pair of speakers had a crap crossover in it and the cabinet had some reflection issues. So that right there confirms that fact. Also, you did a review on a $2200 Focal speaker and it had a lot of issues. When you pulled the tweeter out, it looked like a rinky dink Radio Shack tweeter! In the past, I did hold KEF in high regard, but it seems as if their value has gone down. Namely these LS-50s sell for around $1500 and I do admit I have trouble when it comes to spending more than $650 on a set of bookshelf speakers. It was my wondering WHY these cost so much when I came across the negative reviews. In fact, many that didn't like the sound of these speakers, preferred the sound of the Q-150, of which costs FAR less than these. I did see your review and upgrade of those and even though the parts for the upgrade are expensive, buying the Q-150''s and your parts still costs less than what the LS-50's go for. It does seem to me that companies that I once held in high regard such as Focal and KEF are now becoming "Troll" manufacturers and are overcharging for their speakers. Some people just drop so much money on what these companies ask for, and for what? They maybe get a marginal improvement in sound. It seems the higher you go in price, the less the improvement is. By right these LS-50s, which sell for $1500 should 5 times better than the Q-150, but that isn't the case. Given your measurements, I don't even think the improvement in sound would be twice as good. So why waste your money. Another case in point was when you upgraded a pair of Sony SSCS5 speakers. The point was made that the upgrade costs more than the speakers do new, but for under $400, you ended up with a really nice speaker.
Change amplifiers.
The cap on the tweeter is a little too big. Lower it 1-2uf and it will bring that hump at 4-6k hz down. Then, a 15 deg off axis listening position should be recommended imo.
Audiophilia is so bizarre. Focus too much on numbers just listen to what you like.
The owner complaint that the speakers are fatiguing. I listened to Danny but I don't think he really addressed this 'issue'. Danny mentions that it's a little veiled and the treble is rolled-off but nothing points towards a fatiguing speaker. Did I miss something?
I have LS50 meta on Kef stands powered by a Bluesound Powernode 2021 so a relatively cheap system and I love the sound they make. The clarity and soundstage. I think this video starts with the premise there is something not good about them lets find out what it is. I couldn't care less that's there's a component in their that is not , in his opinion optimal. Perhaps Kef chose that component specifically for it characteristics. I am interested in what my ears tell me and not his graphs. There was no opinion on their performance relative to other speakers at that price point. No discussion about what sort of music they are best for. Just a person taking the back off and saying they are built well but eureka here is the culprit , perhaps or perhaps not. To get better sound you will have to spend more , possibly a lot more. No mention of the guy complaining what they were paired to or what music he listens to. It must be the fault of the speakers.
If you'd like a comparison, every DIY kit that we offer eats them up across the board, and for a lot less money.
@@dannyrichie9743 You are bound to say that but thats not a credible comparison. Where is the independent assessment.
@@bjs7442 My word is credible. Just have a look at those crossover parts in the LS-50 and then compare it to what we offer in our kits. Our drivers sound a lot better as well. It is really not even a comparison.
@@dannyrichie9743 When I buy speakers I try them with my system. When the speaker is a kit I would need to know from someone other than yourself that I am getting excellent speakers suitable for my system. I am not doubting your word but you have a conflict of interest. I see Kefs advertising for example and want an independent expert view to help my decision.
@@bjs7442 Visit our forum at the Audio Circle to get feedback from our customers.
Still, you are asking an answer to an obvious question.
It is about like someone asking me, how does a Corvette (our speaker) compare to a Smart Car (cheaply produced mass marketed speaker). I own actually own one of each of them and know them quite well, but then they don't want to take my word for it because I might be biased, even though it is not even a comparison.
Hi .
U have test xtz lcr .?.
Very god . Ithink u must uppgrade filter .
Very god drivers seas excel and fountec ribbon tweeter
There is a 2R7 series resistor in the tweeter x over in my Metas! Both the large value electrolytic caps are in shunt on the woofer circuit so forgivable for the price. Yes I agree though, super difficult to upgrade without going to an external crossover
This one had no resistor on the tweeter circuit. Those electrolytic caps are in the direct signal path and do degrade the signal to the woofer.
@@dannyrichie9743 The tweeter resistor is hidden behind the series cap. If you don't take the board out you won't see it
I took mine out and traced the circuit. It is exactly as the KEF white paper says. 3rd order with a notch on the woofer, so the caps are in shunt, not series.
@@simondart1481 If only the original boards could be easily removed.... Those caps in shunt are still directly in the signal path to that woofer. What you hear passes right through them.
If this speaker is fatiguing, the listener is listening too loud.
The peak around 4-6k could perhaps make it a little fatiguing?
That’s what I was thinking
It's on par with everything below 1K, so not likely. Most brightness/fatigue comes from 1-3Khz range and the Metas are dipped 1-2dB in those ranges.
Why not just put in a smaller capacitor in the 2. order highpass filter just to lower the 2.5db peak there? It would absolutely make it sound less sharp and direct, espesially when the music is turned up. Its also hot off axis in the same area so 1-1.5db would actually make it more perfect.
@@impuls60 that's going to cause more issues than it solves... It's going to affect the crossover point, leaving a dip. And likely wont do enough to tame the response in those areas. It's not really "humped up" so much as the top end rolling off as you get further off-axis which is normal for any coaxial speaker.
That ultrasonic ringing can create audible IM distortion difference tones in the top octave. For example, a 10 KHz tone interacts with a 22 KHz resonance to produce a 12 KHz tone.
It's because we're searching for the holy grail which is impossible to find ( no speaker is perfect).
Sir kindly share crosover values i am very thankful
Pair them with subs....give the mid driver a bit less to do and these sound great.
The customer isn't ready to hear your speakers.
You are the only person that doesn’t recommend this speaker
Would love to see a tear down of Wharfedale Linton’s since a lot of objectivists/measurement focused reviews are praising them. EDIT: I see you already did! I love this channel.
Having watched the video Danny didn't really have anything negative to say about these? Build/frequency/spectral all seems very good/flat/clean but would he recommend them, I doubt it, you should by his DIY speakers with off the shelf drivers because it's all about the crossover😉😉
Sorry, but we don't offer any "off the shelf drivers". All of our drivers are our own.
@@dannyrichie9743 apologies to you but i though I see in one of your videos that you purchased a load of drivers on a buyout which doesn't sound like custom drivers to me but if they are your own designed and spec custom drivers then ok.
@@ohmygodwhatareyoudoing4929 We did buy some drivers from AV123 when they went out of business. We made a little kit out of them and gave them away for the cost of the parts: ruclips.net/video/5HhYRlbGyfU/видео.html It was a great way to bring new customers to DIY.
I would be really-really curios about KEF R3 model. It would be super interesting to watch your analysis. Thanks!
MF M6si or above will match really well with these. You really need good strong clean power for these speakers to shine.
what would you recommend around this price?
I've compared these directly to the Totem Sky monitors, and the Totem's were the clear winner for lacking all the flaws you said come with electrolytic caps and cheaper parts, etc. They're decent for their price, but a few hundred more gets you more transparency, soundstage, and low level detail on account of the better parts in the Totems. The one thing these do better, is the complete lack of box colorations. These cabinets are inert as I've ever heard. Heard on their own though, you'd think these were pretty darn good. They're dynamically a bit restricted for a woofer of this size, on account of part of the cone area being used for the tweeter, but they still throw a good size soundstage, so they don't sound terribly small.
The offaxis response is not good at all. That alone makes it a nogo for me.
Why upgrade it 🤔 All of its measurements were well above average for consumer use. Price is nuts. Wish they were $800.00 a pair. However, most quality speakers start @ $1500.00 & up. That said, I’m still thinking of going for it. If anyone knows of the same or better quality as the Meta’s for $1600.00, please advise.
Do you have any speaker you like? All negative things. Why don't you start a speaker company? Even with a same speaker, some likes it, and some don't. Are you fall in love with your woman after you measuring her specs?
Yes, I have complimented many models and that can be seen in many of our videos. Also, as a matter of fact I do own a speaker company. We are quite successful and our designs have won just about every industry award and show award out there.
you are the best and most honest.
Danny, can you do a vid featuring what you consider to be the biggest leaps in speaker technology in the past 25 yrs ?
As the old saying goes:
"You can sent a man to the moon, allegedly, but you can't modify a KEF LS50 Meta"
They look fabulous and no doubt use high quality parts. I bought them based on the highly praised reviews but i was highly unimpressed with their uninvolving sound. I guess its down to personal preference.
The parts quality is actually not that great and does hold them back a bit.
Interesting review but there are several obvious problems. At the top of the list is the uncritical acceptance of a single users anecdotal reports of listener fatigue. Then there is the more serious problem that the frequency response curves that he shows don't really line up very well with other folks measurements particularly Atkinson at Stereophile who is still the best in the business, who does not show quite that degree of treble roll-off nor does his testing show the mid treble shelf, which frankly is more likely a potential cause of listener fatigue. But Atkinson's testing doesn't show really much of either of those issues nor do other reviewers complain about listener fatigue, so once again, he has not really established correlations between the anecdotal reports and what he's measuring. Additionally and certainly a problem for many audiophiles, he uncritically accepts popular memes about putative audible characteristics related to certain crossover parts, memes which have not been held to or validated in double blind testing. This guy knows a lot but not as much as he thinks. And clearly not as much as the KEF design team esp. the head of the team Oclee-Brown who is an electrical and acoustic genius.
First of all, our measurements and John Atkinsons measurements are dead on. I know this for a fact as there have been companies that have sent us products for measuring and testing prior to sending them in for review knowing that they will be measured. Our measurements always match to the T.
Secondly, because they know the speakers will be measured by John Atkinson, when they get reviewed by Stereophile, they often send a reference pair.
What we get are not reference pairs. We get production models. So there is where the differences occur.
Also, we have confirmed from blind comparisons everything I have said about the sonic characteristics of any crossover part. We also use the comparisons of hundreds of others to confirm our own. So you can take my word on those crossover parts to the bank.
You also might want to check this video on the 4:50 mark to see what is used inside these Kef's. Those iron core inductors, and electrolytic caps and sand caste resistors are garbage. You can take that up with the Kef design team.
It is amazing that you the only reviewer that does not agree with everyone else. Who is right, your ears or the other 20 guys ears?
I am not a reviewer. They were sent to me to see if we could get them to sound better.
Steve guttenberg has an other opinion says they are in the club of the bestones
I had a pair of Kef 104/2 for over 30 years...Replaced by Watkins Gen 4 and a JL Audio e112 Sub.SOUNDS REAL GOOD
Hi Ray, I am still running my original KEF 104/2 with a PS Audio Sprout. They still sound wonderful. I have been thinking of new speakers, but not sure if newer is better. What do you find better with your new setup? Thanks
My roommate had a pair of KEF top of their line speakers back in the mid80’s. Ran them with the Adcom GFA 555 and matching preamp. They sounded good, really good, but I was in a love affair with my Dahlquist at the time (would stay there until they were stolen). I was just glad we lived in a big townhouse with a floor between us when listening at the same time .
LS50 taught me good measuring does not mean fun. At all.
Ofc it wont sound good when there is no sub. Bring sub to the party and it will beat many high end speakers.
@@20puskinas1992 one of the only sensible things said. I agree, it's such a great speaker, measuring so well.. but heck, the fan base here believe in the fairies that science can't measure. Makes for a great, fun read doesn't it!? What the mind can do eh.
@@MattSB2588 there ton of people in high end audio who are morons...
They think that freaking bookshelf need "High end" amps instead of adding subs to add much needed foundation.
I have the first LS50s and I can listen to them for 2+ hours without a problem. But they are very picky with the amp you match them. I currently use a Moon Simaudio amp that I got second hand, previously I had a Rotel integrated amp and the sound is almost night and day, they are very picky with amplification!
Also, in my experience they can sound thin with a low wattage-current amp. But with the right amp LS50 sound killer for the price
If you plan to amp LS50s with an average AV receiver or a $300 Stereo amp you better look elsewhere
Can I know what was the model of rotel you tried, and what about yamaha as801 to pair with this kef?
Why Ls50 is not 2.1 system?
Like edifer S360db?
Short answer: NO. You’re welcome.
Maybe the customer is over driving their amps and listening to the speaker too loud ? Or has a preamp that is not neutral ?
Hi can you talk about the kef r series? Any upgrade kit for it?
i have this with the Hegel, they sound way better than others that are far more expensive. this guy might want to take his earplugs off when he listens to them 😂
Oh good grief. You might want to try listening to other speakers. Every model we offer beats these up for less than half the price.
If this isn't "a killer", what would you suggest is?
A fair to reasonable value in the budget level speaker class. It's a long way from killer.
Increase clarity?? In my experience, the LS50 Meta is one of if not the clearest speaker I’ve heard in 35 years. I also think it images and disappears as well in any speaker I’ve heard under $5k. I prefer the fuller sound of the Heritage Special, but the metas excel in clarity and translucence.
You need to hear other speakers.
Are you saying that all reviewers who rave about these speakers, including Stereophile who rated them Class A and Steve Gutenberg who rate them as one of his top speakers ever, haven’t listened to enough speakers, or perhaps they don’t know what they are talking about?? I’ve owned around 20 speakers and I’ve auditioned more than a hundred, and these are the best near-field monitors I’ve heard under $5K. I agree with Stereophile and other reviewers.
Fatiguing to listen to? That customer needs to check his amplifier and sources.
he cant make it better thats why.
We can, but it's not worth the effort it would require. It would either mean needing an external crossover which isn't a realistic option for 99% of people. Even removing the stock crossover boards to swap out the caps on the circuit is a destructive process. the crossover boards are mounted onto plastic pegs which are then generously glued into place. It's just not practical, and the customer agreed.
Did you watch the whole video? This was explained.
Sometimes you are better off spending that time, effort and money on something else. IMO Kefs have always been some what over rated.
Please do a video on the Elac Uni-Fi 2.0’s.
I am grateful for these videos especially when you show and describe the inner workings.
Danny great video! I'm wondering how you made the 3D plot(the waterfall spectral plot)!
We use a Clio measuring system.
I think you loose site on what this is it’s only a $1600 set, for the money it’s great.
I've seen higher quality parts used in speakers that were introduced for $199 a pair. At that price point there is no excuse for the cheese parts.
If he finds the sound fatigueing for long periods, the issue may be the upper mid hump. The easy suggestion there is to listen off axis where that hump flattens out. It will still sound a little dark due to the continuous slope to the treble, but it will reduce the fatigueing nature. Tone controls might be able to flatten the response depending on the curve of the tone control. Also, the fatigue may come from a room acoustic issue.
I sold mine for that very reason J. Listen to music for around 8 hours a day when I'm home. The KEFS got worse as the day went on. Room acoustics should not have been a problem as I have a Lyngdorf amp with Room Perfect. Purchased a pair of JBL L82 Classics and they are perfect. Less harsh, more low end due to larger drivers. The soundstage isn't as wide as the KEFs but I can take that as they aren't fatiguing at all. Maybe as I listen to old soul and reggae on vinyl a lot is the reason why the JBLs are better.
@@stephenjon3502 yeah, jbl didn't design the L-82's for soundstaging. They built them for tone, texture & dynamics. But don't think that room perfect will fix room acoustic issues. While it can help, it won't completely undo bad acoustics. Physics can't be fooled. God created physics. He is not going to suspend physics because you bought a fancy digital processor. As for me, I can't listen to digital for very long before the digital hash splits my brain in two. Going to high resolution helps but then the fine details and lack of level gradations keep it from sounding real for me. Glad to hear you found a better solution in the L-82s. I had a boss that had an original set if L-82s. Glad jbl is keeping the heritage going.
@@jked7463 "God created physics" is by definition against the laws of physics.
Or from an amplifier.
@@Technical_Audio depending on the amp, or more likely amp/speaker interaction.
A few years ago i heard the original LS50; not bad at all, but the mids sounded to nasal, like they're glued to the speaker.
Flat speakers sound bright to a lot of people. Too bad EQ is considered a sin because a little dip here and there will take care of it.
I would like to see that data. Seems to me that it’s a little more complex and often comes down to terrible rooms, lack of treatment and many more variables. Pointing at flat speakers as being the culprit seems like a stretch imo. Granted, there might be some valid cases out there but I’d wager, the parts used in the speaker might actually be part of that problem.
@@Newrecordday2013 cool, once you show the data on parts quality or exotic speaker cables 😂
You can find information how to tweak the KEF LS50 (no Meta) when searching for "KEF LS50 Tonfeile Pimp" and "Pimp my KEF LS50" (all in German). It provides information how to open the cabinet by removing the front baffle via 4 screws from the back (may be different on the Meta version?), a suggestion for an alternative bass driver crossover and some nice pictures showing the build and parts quality. I recently shortly listened to the LS50 Meta and was not 100% satisfied, especially cabinet vibrations where a little bit disappointing to me, maybe it is because the front baffle seems not be screwed instead of glued to the cabinet.
For the price I couldn't find a better sounding, or looking speaker than the LS50, because there isn't any. I have owned quite a few different speakers, somewhere around 50 or so. I also use to build my own speakers, and although they were quite good, with high quality parts, inert cabinets, and exotic wood veneers, I couldn't compete. Fin. Thanks KEF!?! lol
Every kit we offer is well above them across the board.
If you build your own speakers there are several better in diy. Madisound has a few scan speak kits that would probably compete with Wilson audio. I happen to have a bookshelf that would compete with the b&w 802s. Not to put you down but the kefs fall apart when you play anything by 2 cellos. Anything with warmth like cellos sounds horrid on those.
What others did you try
Yes I find the voice on these speakers can sometimes sound a bit veiled. That’s why I wld pair it with a 48W Class A SET Willsenton R800i to bring it out. Spkr wires also make quite a diff , Van Den Huls sound too soft I found , when I used silver wires from Xangsane ( Chinese) , the clarity, detail , imaging and soundstage went up a lot. Ofc spkr placement was critical and room dependent. Finally when I changed the DAC from my Matrix mini IPro 3 to the Denafrips Pontus 2 it was night and day. This spkr needs gd associated equipment for it to shine in a small to med room setting. Ofc with IsoAccoustic on the spkr spikes and def use the S2 Kef spkr bolted to the spkr n filled with sand & lead. And finally it needs to be paired with a gd sub like a Rel or KC62.
I do the exact same thing. It's perfection.
@@V1ralB1ack BTW I rolled the tubes on the Willsenton - the 6SN7 and the 300B to PSVane Western Electric , the improvement is quite substantial. Next I will change the 805s. I paired it with the Rel T5X sub. And that’s about it.
@@robertwang7825 That's wonderful to hear. Rel subs are amazing. I have different components but same exact idea. An r2r dac, willsenton r300b tube amp (the new version), foam block between the stands and speakers. Filled with sand and sealed with some candle wax. Ive tried to find better but have failed. This is my ultimate setup.
@@V1ralB1ack That good enough IMO
@@robertwang7825 Same. My next goal is getting a willsenton r800i 805 like yours. They say it's the most musical version
That high frequency roll-off looks terrible. This must be a speaker for older guys that can't hear above 16kHz.
step right up to one of our kits instead :-)))))))))) yeah, OK !!
Definitely a step up.
KEF, like B&W and others, expect you to buy their ultra flagship models if you want the BEST crossover networks WiTHOUT CHEESE. You'd have to buy the KEF BLADE at $30,000 plus to get a high-quality crossover network that matches the quality of Danny's, GR Research/NX Series speakers!
KEF speakers require 50-100 hours to break in, it’s normal for these to be ‘bright and tight’ until then. Fatiguing? Never… perhaps the wrong amp? They have invested millions in R&D, as an engineer I know anything components and speakers or anything for that matter are designed to meet a price point in the marketplace….These are very highly regarded, our customers love them.
Room treatment and speaker placement is the issue. Even with a "bright" amp, you can make the LS50M much more warm sounding by doing a bit of acoustic treatment and placing speakers more off-axis.
well that 50 -100 hours are needed to get familiarized to the new signature sound... lol 4:54 nice chinese caps, that`s what im thinking the voice area is really compromised!! i hate that speakers
@@camelazo Yeah, I can't hear any difference what comes to break in (mostly just getting used to new speaker sound). I still can't understand how someone can hate this speaker (insane build quality, good overall performance, measures well, etc.) I understand if someone hates overly bright speakers that are a pain to listen to, but these even measure well in most of the test I have seen.
Pair LS50M with sub(s) and you have a solid speaker system for a small to medium size rooms. There are better speakers, for sure, but I find it hard to hate if speakers are optimally placed with good room acoustics.
Millions in R&D ... but did you see that filter!?!?!?
To the owner, have you tried aiming them so their center points cross over a bit in front of the listening position? This technique is sometimes recommended for coaxial drivers to make them feel less ‘beamy’.
Buy something made in the UK rather than China
I am in no way any where near qualified to give a solution to what makes this speaker good ... Correct me if I'm wrong , the factors to evaluate a speakers performance should be the amp, the source component(s) and the music production.. (short of the internal components) I'm a cd person and all cd's are not created equal.. the engineering in all cd's are very different.. One may sound great on that speaker and another may not live up to the same.. Change amps change cd players and change cd's and you will get a totally different sound
That speaker looks ugly.