I'm forever thankful I bought a pair of Pedistales from Danny before they were all gone. Danny knows speaker design! I luxuriate in the music every day for hours! Thank-you times 100!
Thanks Danny, this was certainly one speaker I was hoping you would offer your analysis on. Nobody else goes inside speakers and offers valuable assessment like you do ... and if they exist - I don't know about them. I really look forward to learning about your old-school kit. I've learned more about speakers through you ... than anyone else on the planet.
Like your great honesty, Danny. And your great understanding of how much can be gotten out of a speaker system. When only a small modification is needed you say it as it is. So you get my respect for that. Thanks.
Laying on my couch, listening to my pair of Model 5's. Powered by an XTZ Edge A2-300. Watching this video on my tablet. I certainly am enjoying my pair of KLH's.
Now who did those funky shutter glasses on Danny! Danny's these classes are university stuff. His efforts are treasure for all diy. Nobody else does this incredible format of bring in different speakers and teach about fundamentals. Danny rocks
I bought the Dynaudio Special 40 upgrade and was stunned by the improvement. More open, more dynamics, feels like a much more expensive speaker and the music sounds wonderful.
Nice review Danny! I bought a pair of these about a year ago, and after a "break-in" period they sounded wonderful. I took your advice and lined the cabinets with No-Rez, and it made a noticeable improvement. Plus, it was just kind of fun taking out the speakers and messing around with the cabinets! Really like these speakers a lot!
It is a very educationnal video! It shows the strengh and weakness of this 'old school' design. It also show that a three-way design can sound good if the quality and construction is made right! Thanks for your efforts!
Regardless of the recommendations here, I would never change the model 5. This is old school for sure and for the times we are living in this is considered ground breaking as well especially for the younger listeners who may not have heard or ever seen this style of speakers and this design. KLH had a strong intention for this old school throw back and they succeeded hugely. No way would I even line the cabinet with this none res stuff. This model would remain completely original in my collection of speakers.
@@capragoat8119 class D amps do well with it. Class AB sound best. But looks for something that has current. Audiolab 6000A has been getting great reviews. I have a Yamaha AS2200. But if you can home audition…try the 6000a.
Yes, a wider box gets you edge diffraction at lower frequencies. Some of which can be reduced with rounded edges. But, people forget that the larger baffle helps the mid-bass (& higher frequencies) to couple with the air better. And mid-bass impact makes a speaker sound more lively. The better coupling to the air is one of the things people like about horns.
Speaking of old school, i need you to try mixing an old school rigid cone system, with a new school long excursion neutral system. Play them together at about the same volume, and then tell me what you think? That's how i run mine, and if i shut either sysem down, it sounds like something is drastically missing. The blend is phenomenal!
Hello Danny. I'm a new subscriber and watched several of your videos. Great stuff. I bought this model last month before the price hike hit. I'm busy burning them in. So gratified your impression is so positive. I'll keep an eye out for your kit. For now I'm just getting used to them. Greg
Extremely interested in the old school speaker you're working on. Flatpack shipping is probably going to be prohibitive, but there's something about an oldschool 10" or 12" paper cone woofer design that you just don't get from a bunch of 6.5" metal cones.
Great video Danny. Very interesting to see that the original crossover build was not too bad. I think with your slight tweaks this will be a very happy customer you have.
@@dannyrichie9743 Touché! I should have known better from what I have built of yours. I got carried away because I never heard “cheese” or “What were they thinking”...
Its a legacy design Heritage series speaker, it damn well better measure up! Nice to see wide baffle speakers in the mix still competitive with newer sleeker designs.
I know they are older now but any thoughts on improving Infinity IL 60s? They worked really hard to have a linear response curve over at Harmon Kardon.
As a proud owner of the Model 5's, this makes me very happy. Specifically the crossover being made of good parts. After watching many of your videos on much more expensive speakers having junk parts, I started wondering, hmm, do my moderately priced KLH's have a junk crossover? And if they do, how do they sound so freaking good. Now it all makes sense, they sound great because they are great.
They aren't "great" per se, but they aren't junk either, which is still good to see better quality parts where it matters most. More brands should definitely take note. For me the only other thing I would change would be the large 25W resistors or at least the one for the "high" level be using 2 12W Mills or 3 10W Lynks resistors in parallel to meet the wattage rating, as well as bypassing the switch altogether. But that's just me.
I own a pair too, and was waiting with baited breath for this video! LOL! I figured these would pass with flying colors, as the sound I am getting out of these is way past anything any reviewer stated, Jay was the closest with his DEBAK review. Feed these babies lots of power and you will be rewarded, add two subwoofers and Katie bar the door!
@@hoth2112 I'm more curious in regards to adding the NoRez to the interior. I will think about the upgrades to the crossover, as these sound damn good to my ear in my living/dining room. They just need gobs of power to open them up. Something no one has ever mentioned in any of the positive reviews I have seen. If I was running these on a 100 watt amplifier, I would box them up and send them back.
@@michaelwright1602 the norez will help to reduce cabinet resonances and tighten up the bass response a bit, using some corner braces along the sides/back in the lower woofer section would also help, but you'll need a table or miter saw to get the necessary cuts. The cap swap will improve clarity across the board. Danny also mentioned to the customer to swap out the resistors for the "high" setting. In which case youll likely need to parallel 3x 10W quality resistors that are 3x the value of the original. (Ex 2.5ohm > 7.5ohm) that will also help improve clarity in the top end. Interesting to know that the Model 5s need lots of power to sound their best.
@@hoth2112 Thank you for the info, and yes on the power. I was surprised too, being 6 ohm I thought they would play closer to an 8 ohm speaker, not the case, at least here, which did surprise me. They are rather difficult to drive to get the sound I desire.
While I disagree with your recent controversial post about reviewers, I do greatly respect your knowledge, research, engineering and all-around know-how with regards to speakers. You're doing a great service for the hobby.
To Danny's defence, what he described was normal not just in hifi but other products when reviews were tied at the hip with print advertisement revenue. As an RUclipsr our views, clicks and involvement drives traffic but there is no payolla. Payolla is when a review gets a unit and can keep it for resale. That is Danny's point, I believe it is a well taken point.
@@clarice1001nights I absolutely can't understand what you would have thought was "controversial" about that post. It's something that needs to be challenged. Look at Z Reviews, he gets free product, offers it praise and free marketing, then sells it for a 100% profit margin that his followers have to pay to enter a lottery to bid on... Seriously, how can you not call that out as completely unethical? Rocket Willey, I'm not sure what you would have disagreed with there?
@@CliffForster BINGO...yes he does. Danny keep holding Manafactures to the flame and RUclips endorsers. Honesty these days are the "Woke" Achilles heal. With you 100% Brother.
@@CliffForster You are dead on. I do not find in fault in wIth Danny filling in our understanding of how the industry used to be. Past tense! Danny is a techie of audio and one of the few capable in his work. For guitars amps, Blackie Pagano is the musician's master amp repairer. There is nobody out there criticizing Blackie's work, but that is what you are able to do when you listen to your recordings of rock bands. Most people do not realize that when a singer loses their voice on a tour, sometimes a million dollars gets burned. A record label sends the famous to a voice teacher that teaches them strategies so the hair will stand up on our necks. Believe me, Cliff I really do understand.
Thanks Danny, thinking of getting a set of the Model 5s. I grew up with and inherited my dad's AR2ax speakers and always loved them. Wonder how they'd fare in your checks and measurements?
Hi. Just discovered your channel. I think its great. I designed.my own home brew speakers and I. Appalled at what youve found as far as.crossover parts in speakers going for 6k or more. Unreal! I built a 3 way design using a 2nd order linkwitz riley xover and at first after getting the cabinets built which was a cost of 1200.00 and about 400 plus for the drivers I had a mish mash of x over parts in the cab. I listened to them for about a year like that now ive ordered new x over parts all goertz 12 awg copper foil inductors and jantzen superior z caps and also some obbligato gold and oil filled for some of the larger cap values. Plus this specially designed jansen 12awg copper wire inductors for the woofer handling. Driver config is forward and rear firing 12 " drivers 5.25 aluminum mid range and scanspeak tweeters. About 1200 i. Crossover parts so around 2500 invested so far. Ok so after all that nonsense I cant figure out what to use to wire up the cab. 12 awg solid core wiring or 12 awg multi strand. Any suggestions. Could use the help. Love the channel.
Part way through replacing parts in my Focal 806 speakers, got rid of the electrolytics in the bass circuit, and replaced the cheap film cap in the tweeter circuit with a better quality part and they have improved massively already, the top end is so much smoother and detailed. I have some Mundorf air cored inductors waiting to go in but that will be a squeeze so may externalise the crossover. This will also make tweaking easier as I intend to buy a mic and some software to allow me to make some tweaks to the values if needed. Been modifying amps and CD players etc for years but the improvements that can be made to speakers seem equally great if not greater👍Got some old Wharfedales in the loft too so might have a play with them too when I get the neasuring kit, the kids can use them when I have finished
Separating microphonic xover components and vibrating speaker enclosures is always a good idea, irrespective of space constraints and carries the added benefit of easy access for compulsive tweakers. Apart from xover components, the other cost saving victim is the enclosure itself. If you can manufacture streamlined, inert, stiff and damped boxes yourself, the difference trumps any other improvements made to the chain by quite a margin.
I have a pair of New Advent Loudspeakers from 1979 (original owner). It came with the fried egg paper dome tweeters which I replaced with a pair of Advent 5002 mylar domes. I had to have someone replace the foam surrounds on the woofer once but otherwise they are as new. I’d ship one to you to play with (still have the original tweeters) but they are 40 pounds each.
I am two months into the KLH Model 5 which replaces the Advents like yours. After so many years the surrounds succumbed to the Andromeda Strain Syndrome (movie reference). New surrounds and replacing the bi-polar electrolytic caps with mylar did the trick. They played for many years until the voice coil bobbins in the woofers developed mechanical noises. I have done complete overhauls before, but new direct replacements were available from Simply Speakers for a reasonable cost. If that was not an option, I would have done the overhaul. Placing the Advent and the KLH Model 5 side by side you will first notice that they play at nearly the same volume level which will make an A-B comparison easier. If you are comfortable with the Advent and you don't feel any reasons to change, the Model 5 will get you moving. I am certain that if Henry Kloss were here today, he would approve. It is a good feeling to know that there are no compelling reasons for making tweaks to the speakers and they are fine as is. I am open to the idea of making mods down the road.
I honestly want to wait for the KLH Model 7 myself. Excellent review from a finicky kinda guy when it comes to loudspeaker evaluations, but I still listen and like most often. Respect the opinions of the channel.
@@bikdav Yep, I believe a 15 inch woofer? Maybe 12", I forget. I'll stick with the Model 5's that I have, as the size with the stands fit perfectly in our living room. Any bigger and the woman will complain.
In this case it was a value for value mod. So the response was not altered. If one wanted to really dissect it then some other things could have been done.
The game changer for me with the Model 5's was the purchase of the Denafrips Ares II DAC. Night and day over the other chip DACs. Then I went and purchased the Denafrips Hades Class A preamp and their Class A/B Thallo amplifier, another game changer. Pontus II DAC will be ordered soon. This setup gives me that 60's and 70's sound I have been searching for. I thought of doing the Danny upgrade to the crossover, but I am so happy with the sound, I really see no need to do that. A good R2R Ladder DAC and Class A amplification folks, that is if you are looking for that analog vinyl sound.
I have the model 5’s I like them enough. I’m running a Yamaha a-s801. I was looking at the denafrips to hook w my laptop or something. I wonder if w my amp it would make much difference. Ive never bought a dac btw so I’m ignorant to how they affect the sound
@@rensopinto2139 I know this is an old post, but if you want that R2R experience, for $249 you can pick up the Cayin RU6, a dongle DAC. It blows the Ares II out of the water. Give it a try.
I just got a set of these on sale for Under 2000 with Stands and Had been listening to my JBL L100 Classic 75s, WHOOOA! These without any Mods are a Freaking Bargain in my Book! I also found that (to my ears) Towing them out 10 or even More degrees made a Very Good Soundstage even Better. The only Point I'm trying to make is at under Half the Price of my JBLs these things Kick A. I am going to line the inside, don't know about messing with the parts because the Sound is what I Like but all in all - Very Impressed. My wife is going to get these put in her system???? I think I'm buying another Pair!!!! Since some people are asking I am using a Pioneer SX1280 at 185 WPC, Audioquest Rocket 33 Cables, these Speakers Love it but I'm sure they would be happy at a bunch Less power too.
Nice interesting review. I have owned KLH speakers and still have my first pair of KLH Thirty Twos from 1973 (although I’ve replaced the caps and swapped the iron core inductor for an air core which was a big improvement.) thanks Danny. BTW, love the shirt. I just wonder when my wife posed for the shirt graphics? 😂😂😂
Heard them over Christmas. They have an exciting , fun sound. The first thing I noticed is the incredible sound stage they throw. Kid you not. Best I've ever heard in that regard, Now if they improved the midrange vocals just a bit, they would be unbeatable at $2.5k
My "end-game" speakers would probably resemble the Legacy Focus with active crossovers and multiple amplifiers. I have been playing with something similar to this in the car audio realm for a while. Probably not a product that will come from GR Research because of freight costs.
I just bought a pair of original 50 year old KLH 5 speakers. I will send the cross-over schematic I found on a KLH thread on Audiokarma to get the proper upgrades. It's fairly complicated for a 50 y.o. crossover.
Hello Danny,cool talks,love your honesty about the speakers… have you got plans to view JBL L100 CLASSIC? That’s maybe for you to consider as this year your plans are old tipe of speakers. Another one maybe for you to consider YAMAHA NS-1000M…
Does anyone have experience with the KLH Kendalls? Would like to purchase towers under $2000 and the Kendalls are on my list. Or any other suggestions for 2 channel listening. Thx
Hi Danny how does this compare with the 15" Cerwin vega D9 or any of the 15" 3 way cerwin vega; back in the 90' my friends had the CV and I liked the emotion, and power and fullness that would produce. Through research I know that they are not very accurate or "good quality" but I want to know if you have had any experience with them, and what can be done on them to Make them better to not have the V shape tones and improve the mids on them
We actually did have someone send us the crossover for the Transpulse 1500 to map out. But from what I've seen, those massive cabinets really needs some bracing as well as noRez. That will really help tighten up the bass response. As well as the clarity improvement from the better quality parts. It would be interesting to actually have one of them sent in tho!
Danny thank you for the review. I totally agreed with you with the reviewers. I think a lot of them got a little ass hurt because now that they are RUclips elite in the field. They just didn’t wanna hear the truth. And basically you weren’t insulting them you were just making a few friendly critiques and then offered to give them somewhat of an education for free by visiting your compound. Listen I’m in electrician and if I have the engineer Santa you’re doing a good job let me show you some more advanced thought…I’m taking it! I think a couple eagles got hurt. No big deal though I love those guys because of what they’re doing to educate the rest of us especially on the new
Im going to start by adding NoRez to my pair…I don’t have anything to complain about but the promise of “a little more and better bass” is good for me.
Add a pair of subs... OMG! Talk about HUGE Soundstage... I have two of the SVS SB3000 subs, night and day... Also, I hope you have a powerful amplifier to run these Model 5's, because the more power you feed them, the greater the reward. I'm Using the XTZ Edge A2-400, neutral with a gain knob, add the subs and audio nirvana baby!
@@michaelwright1602 thanks…I plan to add 2 REL subs in the future once I have a proper room size. I run the 5s with a Yamaha AS2200. I do get great bass already. I’m happy. But I’ve been thinking of what “upgrades “ might do to sound improvement. Also thinking of adding a tube preamp in the future.
@@Staybrown11 It is not the bass per se, it is what they do for the soundstage. Those subs just add to the presence, the sound expands well out into the room enveloping you, of course much will depend on the source. I believe mine are st to 65hz on the low pass. Still playing with that. .
I'm learning does taps mean amp? I'm using one for a center channel and I guess my avr is not enough and I need an amp but have no clue how to find a cost efficient amp that has 200 watts that can handle 4 ohms of this speaker.
When I was shopping for new speakers, I narrowed it down to the 5's and JBL L82's. Since there are no real stereo shops here, that had both to demo I went with the L82's. Would love to see how they measure up, but I'm real happy with them. New Record Day's review convinced me to give them a try. Hope you get some L82 to check out.
The many pairs of Celestion ditton 44 I've refurbished measure the same way as these vertically. Not much difference. There a 3way design to. Obviously works well. I love 3way designs. Having a dedicated midrange is so good
Thanks to your customer that came by. I would be very interested to listen to the before and after sound the speakers make. Can you do a before and after listening demo? That would put the nay sayers in the grass and burn the bully pulpit they are using to throw dirt in the eyes of honest people. GR Rocks
The customer only brought one of the speakers here, and only kept them here as long as he was here. So that wasnt really possible. We have done some before/after to the upgrdes to the Klipsch RP600M and there's a video about it. But it's often not as easy to tell the differences over recorded audio as it is in person. As the YT compression, and even more so the response of your own headphones are going to greatly affect what you hear.
Stupid question: we have to remove the white foam and replace with the NoRez, right? I have 3 sheets that I was going to put into a pair of Heresy IV but I sold them and still have the NoRez….now it’s going into my KLH Model 5s!
Danny, - This was a good examination of build/parts/measurements etc., but did you take some time to listen to it? It's one thing to examine the parts, but I'd like to also know your opinion of how it sounds.
Dan, out of curiosity when you took the woofer out did you notice how the speaker was damped? Was it fully stuffed? Was it just lined on the walls? Or was a small quantity of wadding loosely thrown in? According to the video scene it looks as though KLH used some polyester.
I am trying to understand how the frequency response could could go so low "42Hz" Are they including room gain to get that low? Because I have not found any 10" 87 to 88db woofer for a sealed enclosure that was not a subwoofer and would also have to be crossed very low in order to go that low. Usually limited to 48 to 50Hz.
Jay had these measured in a professional sound lab, one of those chambers... KLH is telling the truth. I own a pair, and you really do not need subs with them. I do have two SVS SB3000 subs. Here is the link... ruclips.net/video/ACCS3Q_TcZM/видео.html
Danny you have heard the Lintons and suggested mods for them as well. My impression is that this speaker is more transparent than the Lintons. Would you say that is true? Is this speaker better and instrument separation? The highs and the mid-range have a seem to have more natural shimmer than the Lintons. The Lintons tend to have a very lightly veiled native sound. Does no-res help, or is this a function of the parts quality in the crossover?
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks. I have a pair waiting for me to hear them and bring them home. I am looking forward to learning about your kit. Go for it! I think you guys hung the sun.
Sorry if this is a newb question. I come across videos and forums with people upgrading speakers but have yet to hear if any of these changes end up making a 6 ohm rated speaker into, say, an 8 ohm speaker. Is this something?
No, that's not a thing... and mostly isn't a concern. Speaker impedance merely illustrates how nice it plays with amplifiers. A 4 ohm load is more demanding than an 8 ohm load... the lower impedance requires more current delivery. Example; speakers of 4 ohms or less, may need more amplifier power than a typical receiver can supply... moving into separates, ie., stand alone amplifiers. It's worth noting, post measurement after crossover mods, the final impedance may be somewhat different, but not significantly.
@@FOH3663 could you suggest a cost concience amp for 1 of these, I'm using it as a center channel and I suppose my avr is not enough. I was thinking 200watts that can handle this down to 4ohms but I keep studying and struggling with learing what amp to go with. Maybe in bridge mode for less than $500 but it's prob junk.
Hello folks: in the speaker game it's so easy to out do what's on the market. kLH tip themselves by not thinking about, get every last dime that they can. The money they save by bring lunch from home. Trade off for better x-over parts. I was hoping to see the fz. response of each driver, As in other reviews sharing the x-over slope/type, db and fz range. Overlap or under lap. I know not all the time we do things the same each time, to be interesting. Plus it will keep us waiting until next video on your Da Da Danny the man Channel Tune in for chezzey for extra cheese, next week. Ride Easy
I don't know anything but what I think my understanding is that reduces speaker box resonance and vibration. I don't know that I've ever noticed resonance but the reviewers speak of it.
@@trauma50disaster1 box panel resonance is an issue for sure...and nores...or other damping material...or bracing will take care of it.....but reducing internal volume raises the resonance of the box itself and knocks ported enclosures off target. So...when all surfaces in a small box get no res....and huge air coil inductors box tuning is sub optimal. The effect can be somewhat mitigated by acoustic stuffing...but enclosure performance is altered.
Way back in the 70's my Dad bought a Sansui receiver and these speakers. They were very exciting to have until I switched to classical. The mid strings were always mud and no bass at all. I sure hope theyve made significant improvements. I remember hearing different speakers on the same receiver and the music opened up significantly. Don't know if you guys ship your speakers to Canada, but I'd be curious.
It will all depend on what you are feeding these new Model 5's with. Every piece of gear I put on them changes the sound signature. They are very transparent and neutral.
I designed and built a speaker with an old school design but it's flat no diffraction all oxf 99 % copper wire silver solder janzen inductors and caps it's made from.5 MDF covered by.75 solid oak my frequency response is flat it's cone is paper kevlar fiberglass 2 Voice coil 2.5 " on the top and bottom which is something designers don't realize makes a huge difference. I braced the inside used a gallon of flooring adhesive to adhere the oak I used flex seal in the inside expanding foam In the connors so it's not square inside it's rounded over then I glued carpet pad to the inside. Gold plated brass binding posts and big rubber anti vibration feet. I ported it in the bottom and tuned it to 28 kz . My spectral decay is clean. I don't understand how klh wharfdale and other high end companies can't make a speaker as good as mine. My cabinet is furniture quality but because I don't have any u tube influencers showing it people would rather buy a klh for $5000 than mine for $2000 I spent a $1000 to build it and it took months to design and build
$1250 each for the KLH Model 5, how did you list 5k? I don't know why people won't buy your speaker, this post of your should be enough, what a business plan...
Great review and observations. I think I will continue to watch your videos. Learning to understand how each component internally affects the sound. So from your perspective, which Speaker company does a good job overall in your opinion?
Redo the famous "Thrifty Three Way" by David Weems that swept through the industry in late '69 -'70. I built it from Popular Electronics February 1969.
I wonder why Danny didn't suggest upgrades to what looks like sand cast resistors which he poo poos in all other designs. Based on there being 3 of them, I am assuming they are attached to the 3 position switch controlling the mid & tweeter, but that is conjecture. Just curious.
They are (three of them anyway) attached to the switch in the back. I did not have the speaker long enough to take the circuit apart and get those values. There is more improvement ahead by switching them out.
Off axis measurements are not important to me when I am sitting in my sweet spot smoking a nice fat spliff and spinning some vinyl. Open baffle with sub support is by far the best speaker confiuration. Big wing small wing wedge setup. Cut out wings by the tweeter. Bliss.
It wasnt a full redesign, so there wont be any changes to the measurements. The only things being swapped out were some cheap caps for the same values using better quality parts. So the measurements would have remained the same.
@@hoth2112: If the measurements remain the same with no benefit, then what is the point of spending a dime let alone a dollar on a supposed "upgrade"? If it makes no measurable difference then it's not an upgrade, is it? If I wanted to spend money just for the sake of spending it, I'd buy a lottery ticket where at least I know the outcome beforehand.... Total loss.
@@Finite-Tuning Better quality caps discharge faster and offer better clarity, especially going from electrolytic caps to even budget polycaps. They aren't going to smear the signal in thr same way. You would have to measure the discharge rate of the caps themselves to see the differences between them, you won't see it in the ways we measure the speakers. For instance, one of my pairs speakers has 2 sets of external crossovers. one cost $50/pair, the other for 1100/pair. They both measure identically, but they differences in clarity and tone are immediately noticable by ear. The cheap one sound congested and dull, while the expensive one sounds open and dynamic. With the ceap crossover subtle details get lost easily, decay/sustain gets buried, while the expensive crossover allows you to easily hear those more subtle nuances and decay for much longer.. That said, you don't have to spend crazy money to get better performance. Just replacing the weakest links in the chain are still going to benefit the rest of the system as a whole.
@@hoth2112: Sure, I don't argue that better parts can make better sound. But I'm a numbers man and I need to know that my money is really working for me. Capacitors can in this case be very easily measured using a signal generator and an oscilloscope. I am all about those numbers and I'll gladly spend the extra coin if/when I know the end result. But the lack of evidence on the other-hand will keep my wallet locked up tight like Fort Knox. Of coarse to each their own, but my money requires proof. Cheers 🍻
@@Finite-Tuning If we had an oscilloscope to test with we probably would! But I don't blame you. This is a pretty minor upgrade compared to most of the kits we offer.
Historically, a speaker with that lumpy of a response and that much ringing showing up on the spectral would get a colder response from you. Given the tilted response and fairly low impedance, I think some big air cores on the woofer circuit might actually make some sense here as an upgrade. They would add some series resistance to that part of the circuit, taming the impedance dip, while bringing the level down.
High Rdc air core coil would also lower damping/raise Qtc, which historically, tend to be on the "hot" side already in vintage speakers, althogh such arrangement would, as you mention, increase losses and further lower efficiency, which usually isn't that great for sealed arrangements anyway.
@@dannyrichie9743 It is going to be interesting to read the follow-up video where you really have a chance to explain your thinking. I do not know too many people who can do a drive-by like you. 😊
I agree, this review seems a little "watered down" and more reserved than his usual explanations regarding the speakers he examines. Come on Danny, tare him a new-one about that dip in the high-frequency mark that we know you can!
FYI: Sound & Vision magazine posted a review of the KLH Model Five (Oct/Nov 2021) - and the response curves they published look a little different. Overall, they liked the speaker and gave it a favorable review. The reviewer thought it sounded better with the grilles off, and also mentioned that the tweeter may be too revealing for some listeners. But at least, the tweeter/mid is somewhat adjustable on this model. For more info, the S&V review is posted here: www.soundandvision.com/content/klh-model-five-loudspeaker-review
I'm forever thankful I bought a pair of Pedistales from Danny before they were all gone. Danny knows speaker design! I luxuriate in the music every day for hours! Thank-you times 100!
Thanks Danny, this was certainly one speaker I was hoping you would
offer your analysis on. Nobody else goes inside speakers and offers valuable
assessment like you do ... and if they exist - I don't know about them.
I really look forward to learning about your old-school kit. I've learned more
about speakers through you ... than anyone else on the planet.
Like your great honesty, Danny. And your great understanding of how much can be gotten out of a speaker system. When only a small modification is needed you say it as it is. So you get my respect for that. Thanks.
Probably the most positive review I've seen on GR
I can’t wait for that old school style speaker kit! I’ve been saving some money for exactly this opportunity 🙌🏼 thanks GR research!
Laying on my couch, listening to my pair of Model 5's. Powered by an XTZ Edge A2-300. Watching this video on my tablet. I certainly am enjoying my pair of KLH's.
Now who did those funky shutter glasses on Danny!
Danny's these classes are university stuff. His efforts are treasure for all diy. Nobody else does this incredible format of bring in different speakers and teach about fundamentals. Danny rocks
I bought the Dynaudio Special 40 upgrade and was stunned by the improvement. More open, more dynamics, feels like a much more expensive speaker and the music sounds wonderful.
Nice review Danny! I bought a pair of these about a year ago, and after a "break-in" period they sounded wonderful. I took your advice and lined the cabinets with No-Rez, and it made a noticeable improvement. Plus, it was just kind of fun taking out the speakers and messing around with the cabinets! Really like these speakers a lot!
I love the old school design. I wish I kept my pair of JBL 4312 I bought new in 84.. They were my favorite SPKs . Nice Video Danny 👍
It is a very educationnal video! It shows the strengh and weakness of this 'old school' design. It also show that a three-way design can sound good if the quality and construction is made right! Thanks for your efforts!
Regardless of the recommendations here, I would never change
the model 5. This is old school for sure and for the times we are living in this is considered ground breaking as well especially for the younger listeners who may not have heard or ever seen this style of speakers and this design. KLH had a strong intention for this old school throw back and they succeeded hugely. No way would I even line the cabinet with this none res stuff. This model would remain completely original in my collection of speakers.
That’s the beauty of this stuff…you don’t have to do any of it…and yes the Model 5s are stunning with the right amplifier and DAC.
@@Staybrown11 is there an amp under $1000 that would be good?
@@capragoat8119 class D amps do well with it. Class AB sound best. But looks for something that has current. Audiolab 6000A has been getting great reviews. I have a Yamaha AS2200. But if you can home audition…try the 6000a.
@@Staybrown11 thanks man, appreciated
@@Staybrown11 how about Rogue Sphinx V3 class D?
Yes, a wider box gets you edge diffraction at lower frequencies. Some of which can be reduced with rounded edges. But, people forget that the larger baffle helps the mid-bass (& higher frequencies) to couple with the air better. And mid-bass impact makes a speaker sound more lively. The better coupling to the air is one of the things people like about horns.
I knew them KLH speakers we're good. Big crossover
Speaking of old school, i need you to try mixing an old school rigid cone system, with a new school long excursion neutral system. Play them together at about the same volume, and then tell me what you think? That's how i run mine, and if i shut either sysem down, it sounds like something is drastically missing. The blend is phenomenal!
Wow! This is great. I was hoping you would find these retro KLH's to your liking!🔊👍
Hello Danny. I'm a new subscriber and watched several of your videos. Great stuff. I bought this model last month before the price hike hit. I'm busy burning them in. So gratified your impression is so positive. I'll keep an eye out for your kit. For now I'm just getting used to them. Greg
I've been wanting to do a diy speaker kit. I'll be waiting for the old school one.
Extremely interested in the old school speaker you're working on. Flatpack shipping is probably going to be prohibitive, but there's something about an oldschool 10" or 12" paper cone woofer design that you just don't get from a bunch of 6.5" metal cones.
KLH Kendall would be awesome. Thanks
good to see a good job out of the box
A GR-Research old style speaker-kit! Massively intrigued! 😃
Great video Danny. Very interesting to see that the original crossover build was not too bad. I think with your slight tweaks this will be a very happy customer you have.
WOW! A speaker that is up to Dan’s standards. Great to see that. The question is - Have they been watching Dan’s channel? 👍
I wouldn't say it was up to my standards, but it was better than I thought.
@@dannyrichie9743 Touché! I should have known better from what I have built of yours. I got carried away because I never heard “cheese” or “What were they thinking”...
Its a legacy design Heritage series speaker, it damn well better measure up! Nice to see wide baffle speakers in the mix still competitive with newer sleeker designs.
I know they are older now but any thoughts on improving Infinity IL 60s? They worked really hard to have a linear response curve over at Harmon Kardon.
As a proud owner of the Model 5's, this makes me very happy. Specifically the crossover being made of good parts. After watching many of your videos on much more expensive speakers having junk parts, I started wondering, hmm, do my moderately priced KLH's have a junk crossover? And if they do, how do they sound so freaking good. Now it all makes sense, they sound great because they are great.
They aren't "great" per se, but they aren't junk either, which is still good to see better quality parts where it matters most. More brands should definitely take note.
For me the only other thing I would change would be the large 25W resistors or at least the one for the "high" level be using 2 12W Mills or 3 10W Lynks resistors in parallel to meet the wattage rating, as well as bypassing the switch altogether. But that's just me.
I own a pair too, and was waiting with baited breath for this video! LOL! I figured these would pass with flying colors, as the sound I am getting out of these is way past anything any reviewer stated, Jay was the closest with his DEBAK review. Feed these babies lots of power and you will be rewarded, add two subwoofers and Katie bar the door!
@@hoth2112 I'm more curious in regards to adding the NoRez to the interior. I will think about the upgrades to the crossover, as these sound damn good to my ear in my living/dining room. They just need gobs of power to open them up. Something no one has ever mentioned in any of the positive reviews I have seen. If I was running these on a 100 watt amplifier, I would box them up and send them back.
@@michaelwright1602 the norez will help to reduce cabinet resonances and tighten up the bass response a bit, using some corner braces along the sides/back in the lower woofer section would also help, but you'll need a table or miter saw to get the necessary cuts.
The cap swap will improve clarity across the board. Danny also mentioned to the customer to swap out the resistors for the "high" setting. In which case youll likely need to parallel 3x 10W quality resistors that are 3x the value of the original. (Ex 2.5ohm > 7.5ohm) that will also help improve clarity in the top end.
Interesting to know that the Model 5s need lots of power to sound their best.
@@hoth2112 Thank you for the info, and yes on the power. I was surprised too, being 6 ohm I thought they would play closer to an 8 ohm speaker, not the case, at least here, which did surprise me. They are rather difficult to drive to get the sound I desire.
While I disagree with your recent controversial post about reviewers, I do greatly respect your knowledge, research, engineering and all-around know-how with regards to speakers. You're doing a great service for the hobby.
To Danny's defence, what he described was normal not just in hifi but other products when reviews were tied at the hip with print advertisement revenue. As an RUclipsr our views, clicks and involvement drives traffic but there is no payolla. Payolla is when a review gets a unit and can keep it for resale. That is Danny's point, I believe it is a well taken point.
@@clarice1001nights I absolutely can't understand what you would have thought was "controversial" about that post. It's something that needs to be challenged. Look at Z Reviews, he gets free product, offers it praise and free marketing, then sells it for a 100% profit margin that his followers have to pay to enter a lottery to bid on... Seriously, how can you not call that out as completely unethical? Rocket Willey, I'm not sure what you would have disagreed with there?
@@clarice1001nights "normal" doesn't mean it's right or good.
@@CliffForster BINGO...yes he does. Danny keep holding Manafactures to the flame and RUclips endorsers. Honesty these days are the "Woke" Achilles heal. With you 100% Brother.
@@CliffForster You are dead on. I do not find in fault in wIth Danny filling in our understanding of how the industry used to be. Past tense!
Danny is a techie of audio and one of the few capable in his work. For guitars amps, Blackie Pagano is the musician's master amp repairer. There is nobody out there criticizing Blackie's work, but that is what you are able to do when you listen to your recordings of rock bands. Most people do not realize that when a singer loses their voice on a tour, sometimes a million dollars gets burned. A record label sends the famous to a voice teacher that teaches them strategies so the hair will stand up on our necks. Believe me, Cliff I really do understand.
Thanks Danny, thinking of getting a set of the Model 5s. I grew up with and inherited my dad's AR2ax speakers and always loved them. Wonder how they'd fare in your checks and measurements?
Looking forward to the old school style speaker kit!
Hi. Just discovered your channel. I think its great. I designed.my own home brew speakers and I. Appalled at what youve found as far as.crossover parts in speakers going for 6k or more. Unreal! I built a 3 way design using a 2nd order linkwitz riley xover and at first after getting the cabinets built which was a cost of 1200.00 and about 400 plus for the drivers I had a mish mash of x over parts in the cab. I listened to them for about a year like that now ive ordered new x over parts all goertz 12 awg copper foil inductors and jantzen superior z caps and also some obbligato gold and oil filled for some of the larger cap values. Plus this specially designed jansen 12awg copper wire inductors for the woofer handling. Driver config is forward and rear firing 12 " drivers 5.25 aluminum mid range and scanspeak tweeters. About 1200 i. Crossover parts so around 2500 invested so far. Ok so after all that nonsense I cant figure out what to use to wire up the cab. 12 awg solid core wiring or 12 awg multi strand. Any suggestions. Could use the help. Love the channel.
Part way through replacing parts in my Focal 806 speakers, got rid of the electrolytics in the bass circuit, and replaced the cheap film cap in the tweeter circuit with a better quality part and they have improved massively already, the top end is so much smoother and detailed. I have some Mundorf air cored inductors waiting to go in but that will be a squeeze so may externalise the crossover. This will also make tweaking easier as I intend to buy a mic and some software to allow me to make some tweaks to the values if needed. Been modifying amps and CD players etc for years but the improvements that can be made to speakers seem equally great if not greater👍Got some old Wharfedales in the loft too so might have a play with them too when I get the neasuring kit, the kids can use them when I have finished
Separating microphonic xover components and vibrating speaker enclosures is always a good idea, irrespective of space constraints and carries the added benefit of easy access for compulsive tweakers. Apart from xover components, the other cost saving victim is the enclosure itself. If you can manufacture streamlined, inert, stiff and damped boxes yourself, the difference trumps any other improvements made to the chain by quite a margin.
Danny, do you recommend any felt on the large upper baffle area?
I have a pair of New Advent Loudspeakers from 1979 (original owner). It came with the fried egg paper dome tweeters which I replaced with a pair of Advent 5002 mylar domes. I had to have someone replace the foam surrounds on the woofer once but otherwise they are as new. I’d ship one to you to play with (still have the original tweeters) but they are 40 pounds each.
I am two months into the KLH Model 5 which replaces the Advents like yours. After so many years the surrounds succumbed to the Andromeda Strain Syndrome (movie reference). New surrounds and replacing the bi-polar electrolytic caps with mylar did the trick. They played for many years until the voice coil bobbins in the woofers developed mechanical noises. I have done complete overhauls before, but new direct replacements were available from Simply Speakers for a reasonable cost. If that was not an option, I would have done the overhaul. Placing the Advent and the KLH Model 5 side by side you will first notice that they play at nearly the same volume level which will make an A-B comparison easier. If you are comfortable with the Advent and you don't feel any reasons to change, the Model 5 will get you moving. I am certain that if Henry Kloss were here today, he would approve. It is a good feeling to know that there are no compelling reasons for making tweaks to the speakers and they are fine as is. I am open to the idea of making mods down the road.
I honestly want to wait for the KLH Model 7 myself. Excellent review from a finicky kinda guy when it comes to loudspeaker evaluations, but I still listen and like most often. Respect the opinions of the channel.
There’s a Model 7 coming?
@@bikdav Yep, I believe a 15 inch woofer? Maybe 12", I forget. I'll stick with the Model 5's that I have, as the size with the stands fit perfectly in our living room. Any bigger and the woman will complain.
wow an actual crossover with "parts" in sub 2 k, what's not to love
I thought that I saw some sand cast resistors in this speaker-wouldn't you want to change those? Or are they better than I thought?
Like your Videos. Do you re-measure the speakers after you upgrade to see if your parts replacement did the what you anticipated?
In this case it was a value for value mod. So the response was not altered. If one wanted to really dissect it then some other things could have been done.
Awesome shirt, I’m hitting the woods this weekend going squatching. I fully expect to experience something.
so? how did it go ?
I hope they're going to look like the wolf Dale and sound even better thanks
The game changer for me with the Model 5's was the purchase of the Denafrips Ares II DAC. Night and day over the other chip DACs. Then I went and purchased the Denafrips Hades Class A preamp and their Class A/B Thallo amplifier, another game changer. Pontus II DAC will be ordered soon. This setup gives me that 60's and 70's sound I have been searching for. I thought of doing the Danny upgrade to the crossover, but I am so happy with the sound, I really see no need to do that. A good R2R Ladder DAC and Class A amplification folks, that is if you are looking for that analog vinyl sound.
I have the model 5’s I like them enough. I’m running a Yamaha a-s801. I was looking at the denafrips to hook w my laptop or something. I wonder if w my amp it would make much difference. Ive never bought a dac btw so I’m ignorant to how they affect the sound
@@rensopinto2139 I know this is an old post, but if you want that R2R experience, for $249 you can pick up the Cayin RU6, a dongle DAC. It blows the Ares II out of the water. Give it a try.
Would it be possible to put legends on the graph so it is easier to read while paused? 😊
I just got a set of these on sale for Under 2000 with Stands and Had been listening to my JBL L100 Classic 75s, WHOOOA! These without any Mods are a Freaking Bargain in my Book! I also found that (to my ears) Towing them out 10 or even More degrees made a Very Good Soundstage even Better. The only Point I'm trying to make is at under Half the Price of my JBLs these things Kick A. I am going to line the inside, don't know about messing with the parts because the Sound is what I Like but all in all - Very Impressed. My wife is going to get these put in her system???? I think I'm buying another Pair!!!!
Since some people are asking I am using a Pioneer SX1280 at 185 WPC, Audioquest Rocket 33 Cables, these Speakers Love it but I'm sure they would be happy at a bunch Less power too.
Nice interesting review. I have owned KLH speakers and still have my first pair of KLH Thirty Twos from 1973 (although I’ve replaced the caps and swapped the iron core inductor for an air core which was a big improvement.) thanks Danny.
BTW, love the shirt. I just wonder when my wife posed for the shirt graphics? 😂😂😂
Heard them over Christmas. They have an exciting , fun sound. The first thing I noticed is the incredible sound stage they throw.
Kid you not. Best I've ever heard in that regard, Now if they improved the midrange vocals just a bit, they would be unbeatable at $2.5k
Does anyone know the settings to recreate the CSD charts that are shown in this video in REW?
Kudos Danny! Could you da a video on your measurement setup and method (meaning outdoor/anechoic, mics, software etc.) ? 👍
I love that you’re going to do a vintage speaker kit this year! I’ve been waiting for that. I will order the moment it’s available.
My "end-game" speakers would probably resemble the Legacy Focus with active crossovers and multiple amplifiers. I have been playing with something similar to this in the car audio realm for a while. Probably not a product that will come from GR Research because of freight costs.
i hope they go with drivers from SB-Audience. theyre highly performant and decently priced. vintage-style speakers should have high sensitivity imo.
I just bought a pair of original 50 year old KLH 5 speakers. I will send the cross-over schematic I found on a KLH thread on Audiokarma to get the proper upgrades.
It's fairly complicated for a 50 y.o. crossover.
How do the KLH Kendall fare in comparison ? Seems like the brand is delivering
Do you have a response curve after the upgrade?
Hello Danny,cool talks,love your honesty about the speakers… have you got plans to view JBL L100 CLASSIC? That’s maybe for you to consider as this year your plans are old tipe of speakers. Another one maybe for you to consider YAMAHA NS-1000M…
Does anyone have experience with the KLH Kendalls? Would like to purchase towers under $2000 and the Kendalls are on my list. Or any other suggestions for 2 channel listening. Thx
Hi Danny how does this compare with the 15" Cerwin vega D9 or any of the 15" 3 way cerwin vega; back in the 90' my friends had the CV and I liked the emotion, and power and fullness that would produce. Through research I know that they are not very accurate or "good quality" but I want to know if you have had any experience with them, and what can be done on them to Make them better to not have the V shape tones and improve the mids on them
What would you do to an original series 5? Ive got mine as everyday speakers since the 70s. Just wonder if i can get them better.
send them in, that would prob be a great video for us to watch!
would love to see a sealed box 3 way with a big woofer!
KLH Model 7, it is coming.
line the box with what?
Brilliant! Really wish you could do the Magnat Transpuls 1000 or 1500 in this context of golden era sounding speakers!
We actually did have someone send us the crossover for the Transpulse 1500 to map out. But from what I've seen, those massive cabinets really needs some bracing as well as noRez. That will really help tighten up the bass response. As well as the clarity improvement from the better quality parts.
It would be interesting to actually have one of them sent in tho!
Danny thank you for the review. I totally agreed with you with the reviewers. I think a lot of them got a little ass hurt because now that they are RUclips elite in the field. They just didn’t wanna hear the truth. And basically you weren’t insulting them you were just making a few friendly critiques and then offered to give them somewhat of an education for free by visiting your compound. Listen I’m in electrician and if I have the engineer Santa you’re doing a good job let me show you some more advanced thought…I’m taking it! I think a couple eagles got hurt. No big deal though I love those guys because of what they’re doing to educate the rest of us especially on the new
Im going to start by adding NoRez to my pair…I don’t have anything to complain about but the promise of “a little more and better bass” is good for me.
Add a pair of subs... OMG! Talk about HUGE Soundstage... I have two of the SVS SB3000 subs, night and day... Also, I hope you have a powerful amplifier to run these Model 5's, because the more power you feed them, the greater the reward. I'm Using the XTZ Edge A2-400, neutral with a gain knob, add the subs and audio nirvana baby!
@@michaelwright1602 thanks…I plan to add 2 REL subs in the future once I have a proper room size. I run the 5s with a Yamaha AS2200. I do get great bass already. I’m happy. But I’ve been thinking of what “upgrades “ might do to sound improvement. Also thinking of adding a tube preamp in the future.
@@Staybrown11 It is not the bass per se, it is what they do for the soundstage. Those subs just add to the presence, the sound expands well out into the room enveloping you, of course much will depend on the source. I believe mine are st to 65hz on the low pass. Still playing with that. .
@@michaelwright1602 looking forward to one day have a pair of subs in my system.
Way to go KLH, I always liked the original KLH 5.
Hope your "old school" speaker is an acoustic suspension design...
How about some felt on the baffle?
Just curious. Based on all the comments regarding the model 5. Would you run the speakers on 8 ohm taps or 4 ohm taps.
I'm learning does taps mean amp? I'm using one for a center channel and I guess my avr is not enough and I need an amp but have no clue how to find a cost efficient amp that has 200 watts that can handle 4 ohms of this speaker.
When I was shopping for new speakers, I narrowed it down to the 5's and JBL L82's. Since there are no real stereo shops here, that had both to demo I went with the L82's. Would love to see how they measure up, but I'm real happy with them. New Record Day's review convinced me to give them a try. Hope you get some L82 to check out.
The many pairs of Celestion ditton 44 I've refurbished measure the same way as these vertically. Not much difference. There a 3way design to. Obviously works well. I love 3way designs. Having a dedicated midrange is so good
44's one of my favorite speakers
How about using a router to lower the lip around the baffle?
What about the Watkins Gen 4 Made in the USA $2500 ?
Thanks to your customer that came by. I would be very interested to listen to the before and after sound the speakers make. Can you do a before and after listening demo? That would put the nay sayers in the grass and burn the bully pulpit they are using to throw dirt in the eyes of honest people. GR Rocks
The customer only brought one of the speakers here, and only kept them here as long as he was here. So that wasnt really possible. We have done some before/after to the upgrdes to the Klipsch RP600M and there's a video about it. But it's often not as easy to tell the differences over recorded audio as it is in person. As the YT compression, and even more so the response of your own headphones are going to greatly affect what you hear.
@@hoth2112 Thanks Hobbs. Given those circumstances, it is an amazing analysis of the speakers.
Im just waiting for someone to hand him a pair of Dynaudio Emit M30s (prev gen) for evaluation and potential upgrades.
Stupid question: we have to remove the white foam and replace with the NoRez, right? I have 3 sheets that I was going to put into a pair of Heresy IV but I sold them and still have the NoRez….now it’s going into my KLH Model 5s!
Yep.
Heard only good things about these. Question; could you review the Klipsch forte fours and maybe the newly issued Rogers speakers? ~Peace
Danny, - This was a good examination of build/parts/measurements etc., but did you take some time to listen to it? It's one thing to examine the parts, but I'd like to also know your opinion of how it sounds.
The customer just brought one of them up and he was only here for a few hours with it.
Dan, out of curiosity when you took the woofer out did you notice how the speaker was damped? Was it fully stuffed? Was it just lined on the walls? Or was a small quantity of wadding loosely thrown in? According to the video scene it looks as though KLH used some polyester.
It was lined with polyfill.
@@dannyrichie9743 Oh. OK.
I am trying to understand how the frequency response could could go so low "42Hz" Are they including room gain to get that low? Because I have not found any 10" 87 to 88db woofer for a sealed enclosure that was not a subwoofer and would also have to be crossed very low in order to go that low. Usually limited to 48 to 50Hz.
Jay had these measured in a professional sound lab, one of those chambers... KLH is telling the truth. I own a pair, and you really do not need subs with them. I do have two SVS SB3000 subs. Here is the link... ruclips.net/video/ACCS3Q_TcZM/видео.html
Danny you have heard the Lintons and suggested mods for them as well. My impression is that this speaker is more transparent than the Lintons. Would you say that is true? Is this speaker better and instrument separation? The highs and the mid-range have a seem to have more natural shimmer than the Lintons. The Lintons tend to have a very lightly veiled native sound. Does no-res help, or is this a function of the parts quality in the crossover?
The KLH was better built and had higher quality parts on the mid and tweeter. So it clearly will have sonic advantages.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks. I have a pair waiting for me to hear them and bring them home. I am looking forward to learning about your kit. Go for it! I think you guys hung the sun.
@@dannyrichie9743 I find it odd that Andrew Robinson chose the Linton's over KLH...
@@tomlocke7628 His wife is the decider
TOP!!!
Sorry if this is a newb question. I come across videos and forums with people upgrading speakers but have yet to hear if any of these changes end up making a 6 ohm rated speaker into, say, an 8 ohm speaker. Is this something?
No, that's not a thing... and mostly isn't a concern.
Speaker impedance merely illustrates how nice it plays with amplifiers.
A 4 ohm load is more demanding than an 8 ohm load... the lower impedance requires more current delivery.
Example; speakers of 4 ohms or less, may need more amplifier power than a typical receiver can supply... moving into separates, ie., stand alone amplifiers.
It's worth noting, post measurement after crossover mods, the final impedance may be somewhat different, but not significantly.
@@FOH3663 could you suggest a cost concience amp for 1 of these, I'm using it as a center channel and I suppose my avr is not enough. I was thinking 200watts that can handle this down to 4ohms but I keep studying and struggling with learing what amp to go with. Maybe in bridge mode for less than $500 but it's prob junk.
@@trauma50disaster1
I'd try the AVR first ...
Does the mic you use for measurements have a perfectly flat frequency response?
It is a professionally calibrated measurement mic.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks
Danny, any chance you could get your hands on the Polk R700 ?
Only if someone sends one in.
Hello folks: in the speaker game it's so easy to out do what's on the market. kLH tip themselves by not thinking about, get every last dime that they can. The money they save by bring lunch from home. Trade off for better x-over parts.
I was hoping to see the fz. response of each driver, As in other reviews sharing the x-over slope/type, db and fz range. Overlap or under lap.
I know not all the time we do things the same each time, to be interesting. Plus it will keep us waiting until next video on your Da Da Danny the man Channel
Tune in for chezzey for extra cheese, next week.
Ride Easy
Hmm lining whole box with nores ...wbich reduces enclosure volume....gives deeper bass?
I don't know anything but what I think my understanding is that reduces speaker box resonance and vibration. I don't know that I've ever noticed resonance but the reviewers speak of it.
@@trauma50disaster1 box panel resonance is an issue for sure...and nores...or other damping material...or bracing will take care of it.....but reducing internal volume raises the resonance of the box itself and knocks ported enclosures off target.
So...when all surfaces in a small box get no res....and huge air coil inductors box tuning is sub optimal.
The effect can be somewhat mitigated by acoustic stuffing...but enclosure performance is altered.
No Rez does not reduce cabinet volume. Adding open cell foam layers slows down the air flow in the box and makes it act as if the box is larger.
@@dannyrichie9743 change in cabinet Q?
what other full size floor stander would you say has allocated this much quality/money in a crossover sub 2k any thing you like as much or better ?
The Model 5 are easily the best speakers up to 2000 $, that's because they are worth 5000 $ easily.
@@ManuelMedellin. well outside of klh . Who wasted the most money on crossover parts I guess is what I'm getting at
Can you do a video on horizontal dispersion?
It would be great to see the measurements and Danny’s opinion on the Klipsch’s Forte IV. I wish someone sends a pair to GR Research to be improved.
It's been measured but may be a while before someone sends that big thing to Danny specifically lol
ruclips.net/video/IZPc1tl1aPs/видео.html
@@RennieAsh Hey!, thanks a lot for the link!
if my memory is correct, didn' t Danny do a mod on a regular customer' s fortes?.....I assumed they were ivs...but maybe they were 3s.....
Way back in the 70's my Dad bought a Sansui receiver and these speakers. They were very exciting to have until I switched to classical. The mid strings were always mud and no bass at all. I sure hope theyve made significant improvements. I remember hearing different speakers on the same receiver and the music opened up significantly. Don't know if you guys ship your speakers to Canada, but I'd be curious.
It will all depend on what you are feeding these new Model 5's with. Every piece of gear I put on them changes the sound signature. They are very transparent and neutral.
@@michaelwright1602 I'm using one as a center channel, any suggestion for an amp as my avr prob can't handle it, denon 3800.
I designed and built a speaker with an old school design but it's flat no diffraction all oxf 99 % copper wire silver solder janzen inductors and caps it's made from.5 MDF covered by.75 solid oak my frequency response is flat it's cone is paper kevlar fiberglass 2 Voice coil 2.5 " on the top and bottom which is something designers don't realize makes a huge difference. I braced the inside used a gallon of flooring adhesive to adhere the oak I used flex seal in the inside expanding foam In the connors so it's not square inside it's rounded over then I glued carpet pad to the inside. Gold plated brass binding posts and big rubber anti vibration feet. I ported it in the bottom and tuned it to 28 kz . My spectral decay is clean. I don't understand how klh wharfdale and other high end companies can't make a speaker as good as mine. My cabinet is furniture quality but because I don't have any u tube influencers showing it people would rather buy a klh for $5000 than mine for $2000 I spent a $1000 to build it and it took months to design and build
$1250 each for the KLH Model 5, how did you list 5k? I don't know why people won't buy your speaker, this post of your should be enough, what a business plan...
Possible to measure after the uprade?
The upgraded parts didn't change the measured responses. It was just a vale for value upgrade.
Great review and observations. I think I will continue to watch your videos. Learning to understand how each component internally affects the sound. So from your perspective, which Speaker company does a good job overall in your opinion?
Redo the famous "Thrifty Three Way" by David Weems that swept through the industry in late '69 -'70. I built it from Popular Electronics February 1969.
Danny if you do a old school speaker. How about a infinite RSM SPEAKER. They brought back the model 5 KLH and the JBL classic 100
I still have mine from the early 80'. At first I was running them with a Yamaha CR 840. And now a onkyo M504 also have a pair of Marantz sp 1515
I wonder why Danny didn't suggest upgrades to what looks like sand cast resistors which he poo poos in all other designs. Based on there being 3 of them, I am assuming they are attached to the 3 position switch controlling the mid & tweeter, but that is conjecture.
Just curious.
They are (three of them anyway) attached to the switch in the back. I did not have the speaker long enough to take the circuit apart and get those values. There is more improvement ahead by switching them out.
why use a pair of polys to replace 1 electrolyitic?
Looks like an homage to the Celestions Ditton 44
Off axis measurements are not important to me when I am sitting in my sweet spot smoking a nice fat spliff and spinning some vinyl. Open baffle with sub support is by far the best speaker confiuration. Big wing small wing wedge setup. Cut out wings by the tweeter. Bliss.
How does it measure "after" the upgrade? Or was this an intentional cliff hanger cause you're working on a part two? Cheers 🍻
It wasnt a full redesign, so there wont be any changes to the measurements.
The only things being swapped out were some cheap caps for the same values using better quality parts. So the measurements would have remained the same.
@@hoth2112:
If the measurements remain the same with no benefit, then what is the point of spending a dime let alone a dollar on a supposed "upgrade"? If it makes no measurable difference then it's not an upgrade, is it? If I wanted to spend money just for the sake of spending it, I'd buy a lottery ticket where at least I know the outcome beforehand.... Total loss.
@@Finite-Tuning Better quality caps discharge faster and offer better clarity, especially going from electrolytic caps to even budget polycaps. They aren't going to smear the signal in thr same way. You would have to measure the discharge rate of the caps themselves to see the differences between them, you won't see it in the ways we measure the speakers.
For instance, one of my pairs speakers has 2 sets of external crossovers. one cost $50/pair, the other for 1100/pair. They both measure identically, but they differences in clarity and tone are immediately noticable by ear. The cheap one sound congested and dull, while the expensive one sounds open and dynamic. With the ceap crossover subtle details get lost easily, decay/sustain gets buried, while the expensive crossover allows you to easily hear those more subtle nuances and decay for much longer..
That said, you don't have to spend crazy money to get better performance. Just replacing the weakest links in the chain are still going to benefit the rest of the system as a whole.
@@hoth2112:
Sure, I don't argue that better parts can make better sound. But I'm a numbers man and I need to know that my money is really working for me. Capacitors can in this case be very easily measured using a signal generator and an oscilloscope. I am all about those numbers and I'll gladly spend the extra coin if/when I know the end result. But the lack of evidence on the other-hand will keep my wallet locked up tight like Fort Knox. Of coarse to each their own, but my money requires proof. Cheers 🍻
@@Finite-Tuning If we had an oscilloscope to test with we probably would! But I don't blame you. This is a pretty minor upgrade compared to most of the kits we offer.
Historically, a speaker with that lumpy of a response and that much ringing showing up on the spectral would get a colder response from you.
Given the tilted response and fairly low impedance, I think some big air cores on the woofer circuit might actually make some sense here as an upgrade. They would add some series resistance to that part of the circuit, taming the impedance dip, while bringing the level down.
Yeah, it wasn't great, but it was better than I expected.
High Rdc air core coil would also lower damping/raise Qtc, which historically, tend to be on the "hot" side already in vintage speakers, althogh such arrangement would, as you mention, increase losses and further lower efficiency, which usually isn't that great for sealed arrangements anyway.
@@dannyrichie9743 It is going to be interesting to read the follow-up video where you really have a chance to explain your thinking. I do not know too many people who can do a drive-by like you. 😊
I agree, this review seems a little "watered down" and more reserved than his usual explanations regarding the speakers he examines. Come on Danny, tare him a new-one about that dip in the high-frequency mark that we know you can!
@@seanjoell And Jesus said to the Devil in the Desert, "Do not tempt the Lord", watch out sean
FYI: Sound & Vision magazine posted a review of the KLH Model Five (Oct/Nov 2021) - and the response curves they published look a little different. Overall, they liked the speaker and gave it a favorable review. The reviewer thought it sounded better with the grilles off, and also mentioned that the tweeter may be too revealing for some listeners. But at least, the tweeter/mid is somewhat adjustable on this model. For more info, the S&V review is posted here: www.soundandvision.com/content/klh-model-five-loudspeaker-review
I bought the Model 3s, hope that are as good!
Has anyone done this mod? Thoughts?
Curious as well
when are we going to see the xstatics?
Once we finally get more tweeters. Currently looking like April timeframe
@@hoth2112 awesome thanks.