Why I Walked AWAY from Warhammer 40,000 - A 40K Rant.
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
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One Page Rules is the new home for your old collection
What are one page rules?
@@barrysingh2872one page of rules.
@@barrysingh2872alternative to 40k, it’s faster paced and isn’t a slog and it’s easy to play and learn, it’s no way near as detailed but that’s honestly a pro
Playing all my seraphon models in fantasy that GW doesn't make anymore and having a blast. I don't know that I ever had fun playing warhammer.
I made the switch 2 years ago, and never looked back. One page rules has made WH40K fun again!
It feels like 10th is just a physical live service game
This is a good comparison, have a like for the like throne
Exactly that’s my impression. They treat models like video game characters lol
Yes, I suspect warhammer plus will be the only way to access the current codices in the future.
@@TravisHi_YT wahapedia....
Jesus that is unholy
I can relate to the " hobby guilt" you mention. As an adult, I can easily afford to buy what ever models i want , but the prices are getting to a point where i cant justify to my self spending that kind of money on tiny plastic Soldiers , when i could get something else . Rules are also becoming a bloody mess . We gave up keeping up in 9th , and 10th seems even worse.
Here is another quote for you regarding 40k : " You come for the models, you stay for the lore, you endure the rules" at least that is how i have always felt .
buy yourself an 3d printer and take a look at onepagerules. if you still want to be in the hobby i guess.
Here’s how I look at it if I pay 60 $ for a box of models I should get 9-12 hours of fun putting them together and painting them.
@@lordhelwintr283 Exactly. Video games are £70-£80 now. A Blu ray disk it's on is about 1p. People still buy it. In fact a digital download is free. Doesnt mean a lot of work hasn't gone into the making of it. GW spend a lot of time and effort on making the models and the materials aren't cheap. You end up with a physical product that can supply hours and hours of use.
This needs to be my mindset.
I've played every edition from 3rd, but mainly missed out on 9th due to real life. 10th isn't that bad. I'd put it in the middle rankings.
Like 9th, it lacks points granularity.
Stratagems are more concentrated and clear (I just wish they didn't exist!).
Lack of force orgs is dreadful for theme and immersion. Easy to write an army though. (Harder to balance the game for the designer).
Free pdf indexes is great, if you have them.
There hasn't been any codex creep yet. (Truly awesome)
Updates are too frequent, mainly points though which is preferable. (Although genestealers and custodes have been mucked about with the odd rule change).
Last time I actually played a game with my miniatures it was with my girlfriend's 15 year old niece and we made up our own rules. It was basically 2nd edition 40K but with alternating unit activation. The objective was 'kill everything'. I played Marines and she played Orks. We had a great time and she was particularly delighted when my Contemptor dreadnought exploded into a pile of scrap. You don't need GW to write rules. They are terrible at it anyway.
My homebrew game is closer to 7th but also includes unit activation alternatingly
Yeah it's how most games with my 7 year old go, he gets really into making up rules for different scenarios, always seems to favour him :D
I thought alternating was better as having to wait for the opponents whole army to move seemed unlikely to keep a kid entertained. Or me tbh
@@filteredjc4653 I agree. I also do this thing where the person who finished first gets to decide if they go first or second next turn. A lot more reactivity and evolving strategy than just moving everything all at once, and then standing like bowling pins during your opponents turn.
The 1st edition robot rules (in White Dwarf 101/102) which had you creating flowchart 'programs' for your robots
Omg yes im glad someone else agrees with casual play being pushed out nearly entirely. I just get bullied whenever i bring it up, they say “skill issue” “get good” that bs this isnt bloody darksouls its toy soldiers
Casual play is the supreme form of play and always has been. Competitive and (Emperor help us) "Tournament" play is (IMHO) Tryhard. The game SHOULD be based and balanced, first and foremost, about Casual play, and that should be the form most encouraged.
GW have done the same thing video game companies want to do with their multiplayer games, turn their casual games into massive esports games that are about “finding the meta” and “being sweats”, but they then appeal to new players to gauge new people, Activision Blizzard do exactly the same thing by trying to make everything a tournament to promote their product. It’s all marketing and promotion
I didn’t leave Warhammer 40K. Warhammer 40K left me. I have been where you are. I found my way back to 40K eventually by returning to 2nd and 3rd Edition.
I wish I could play 2nd Edition Nids again. Not for the broken stuff like Voltage Fields, just because they actually felt thematic back then. Every 40k fan needs to play the Tyranid Attack mission at least once.
I started with 3rd ed, I miss it. Maybe GW will start to 'reboot' the game and take it back to its roots someday.
I’d play 5th
2nd edition is it started and ended for me. Got back into it in 10th, played some games and had fun, but man it's a chore. All the life and flavour has been sucked out of it's bloated corpse now. Take me back to the absolute craziness of 2nd ed any day!
3rd annoyed me because GW halved the points values so I needed twice as many minis but by the gods it was so much simpler than anything before or after, I've also got the rulebook and codices
I'm with you mate, I can't afford gw stuff, printing is soo much better anyway, my new ninja ork army is way more interesting than beast snaggas any day.
I’ve built a Sneaky Ork army out of an old veteran player’s Ork bitz box he sold me (importantly, brimming with arms and choppas and sluggas) and about 40 3D-printed oil barrels I built off of EBay 😅
Each metal barrel is waddling along the ground, with two giant Ork arms coming out of the sides. Some of them don’t even have vision slits. I’m going to paint them up exactly as I would the rest of the terrain around them, and show up without warning my opponents what my Orks look like, to get the best reaction.
It cost me something like $60AUD, between the kind older player’s leftover parts, and the cheap EBay bundles of barrels. It’s nowhere near big enough for a 40k army, but it is absolutely perfect for OPR.
And it’s one of my favourite armies I have- kitbashed entirely out of scraps and terrain.
I love them, and I cannot wait to play them in One Page Rules.
Thats so awesome! I personally made a guard army using warlord games minis, i have commonwealth troops for guard squads(also come with bren guns and mortars for heavy weapon squads, sas for scions, 1/32 churchill with kitbashed guns as a hellhammer and 1/48 tanks as my russes and carnodons. Cost me like £50 tops for nearly 3500 points😁
5 plastic model dudes for 60 bucks is stupid
Wargames Atlantic make great affordable minis 💪🏻
Gotta say I agree about the Beast Snaggaz. That should just be a Fantasy thing.
It's the prices that any sane person should walk away from
yep! $170 for the ne nightlords KT box or groceries for 2 weeks? mmmmmm... tough choice - fuck you GW!
I think I've only ever purchased 1 box directly from GW, the rest are FLGS or "2nd hand" New in box stuff at massive discount. I think I'm done though, my backlog will last at least 10 years lol
The only way to buy and not go bankrupt Is to scavenge online markets and find good deals
3D printing has solved 90% of my issues with the stocking and price factor. If GW don't want to sell me models then I'll take care of myself thanks. If my FLGS has a box set in stock that I want I'll pick it up to support them, but anything else is fair game.
this is a lot of the answer. I dont have to rely on GWs horrible logistics. I used to feel bad about it, but after the last several codex drops and insta stock sellouts, i dont anymore.
I think this is the way. I got 3 x 1500pt armies, so I put a lot of cash down over the years. And I'd love to have more models to build and paint, but all three armies are not Space Marines. So yeah...
If GW does not want to sell to me, then I just go to independent artists and buy their own creations. My friends let me use those models in our games anyway
3rd edition in my opinion was when WH40K peaked; It was the golden mean between the old school attitude towards the hobby where GW still promoted the concept of making your own terrain, kitbashing, stores were staffed by 5+ people and the modern rule heavy expensive plastic battlepacks sold by leg humping salesmen. They were laid back, chill, still did events, promoted painting and modelling in the store, helped kids with painting and modelling. As well as the modern universe was in the process of being written by the writers GW hired to fill out the lore (Dan Abnett was in his prime). All the big names were still there at the company, White Dwarf was still worth subscribing to and came out monthly instead of once every 3 months. Deamonettes still had tits. WH40K didn't take itself too seriously; New Tyrranid design just released.
Games Workshop wasn't anal about custom vehicles or characters either. The whole hobby still had a very "Heavy Metal" vibe as well despite being a decade divorced from GW's Heavy Metal style era.
You had to be there for that era; This was 25 years ago, anyone under 30 has no idea what it was like. Back then, there were dozens of kids in GW stores and GW stores were located in malls instead of some cheap shop in a cheap side street. Mall culture was still very much a thing in the 90s and video games were still niche, back then corporate was just as bad as it is today (actually worse even), but Games Workshop was so profitable then that not only was everything cheap, they let their staff at their stores have the freedom to actually be a hobby store.
God, this is so bloody well said... As I was reading it, it gave me flashbacks to the time of 3rd edition, and what the GW stores used to be like back then. Totally on point.
As a child i had all the time in the world but no money, as a adult ive got plenty of money but no time. Eventually i had 1 assembled and painted army and 2 still in boxes. Then i realized i hadnt played a game in a year but kept spending hundreds on models id never actually get finished to keep up with new power changes on a game i didnt play. Really enjoy the lore and will continue to enjoy the books and videogames but i sold my armies to a kid for basically nothing. Hopefully theyre out there somewhere slaying demons, keeping secrets, or destroying all biolife fully assembled and painted
I'm thinking to do this to my collection actually. Not selling it entirely but size it down to what I really like about my armies and then play KillTeam or OPR with friends only in a garage or smth
Played some OPR last night. We're trying to get an escalation league going for fantasy.
My opponent showed up an hour and a half late and we still got 2 entire games in before close. The guys playing 40k who were both on time didn't get to turn 3.
I remember when making cheese lists where frowned upon, and GW staff encouraged ppl to make non-cheese lists. I can remember many tournaments where it was more about the art of the models or composition of the army that was more points than wins. Back when 'Ardboyz was just starting to become an actual thing. A separate thing, but a thing.
Well that just means it’s a bad game. What does ‘non-cheese’ even mean?
The game as it is now is the most balanced it has ever been. Because of the constant updates.
If you want an unbalanced game that was a convoluted mess to play, play 1st or 2nd edition. The only reason people say it’s good is because of nostalgia.
@@FredrickDouglass69
A cheese list was an army that was made of all the meta picks or Deathstar like units. Basically everything that you would see in an 'Ardboyz tournament scene. Though it sounds like the current day games are all 'Ardboyz, where you are out to just curb stomp people.
A non cheese list was an army that made sense in lore and composition wise. It was sort of a catch all kind of list. HQ, 2 - max amount of troops, 2-3 support choices (elite, heavy, or fast). Not something that was HQ, bare min 2 troops, and a massive spam of heavy units maxed out.
I agree the first 4 editions had some very unbalanced stuff. Though you could have casual games, where it wasn't all about curb stomping your opponent or win at all costs.
Hopefully that clears it up a little.
Well, I got back into Warhammer 40K with 10th... but there is a BIG reason I decided to come back and that's the fact I can 3d print all the things now.
then your not playing Warhammer!
@@henswi89you misspelled “paying.”
@@henswi89Oh please... nobody seems to care, and it's not like I don't buy miniatures, I just only buy a handful from my local store.
@@henswi89 Oh please, if you're using the rulebooks you could be using marked bottlecaps as minis, you are still playing the game.
Unless professional play at officially sanctioned tournaments is the only thing that counts as "playing" anymore.
@@JohnnyThund3rThis is the way. Support your FLGS with core purchases and support artists in the hobby by getting bulk for 1/10 of the price
I quit GW last year in frustration, and now have a great new hobby of watching from the sidelines - free.
For me, last 2 years everyone I've met is playing a different version of rules.
Codexes, errata, balance slates etc.
Sold off $2500 of 40K and KT.
Replaced with Mantic Deadzone and Firefight (stable rules with no expensive extra books).
Half the cost.
Bought Core Space as a bonus.
Gaming is more fun without the time drag and constant rules search.
My play group just plays 9th edition even with 10th out now as we all liked it and everything is out for it.
You mean you don't want to wait another 3 years for an Imperial Guard codex? LOL! Waiting all of 9th to get it two months before 10th came out was the final straw. One page rules were I moved to.
@@c.g.262 also correct lol
This is probably the best way to play it. The very last Dataslate for 9th was as close to a balanced game as was possible, so that's fair for all factions involved (even though I personally think 9th had a few too many layers of rules, although it gave some nice unit customisation options).
10th started out by looking very promising, but it seems we're just facing meta-leading Codexes with each new release.
9e definitely had problems but it's been my favorite edition and is definitely better than 10e.
If you're still buying the miniatures, GW cares little if you play the game or not.
Personally, I know many people who no longer play.
However, they still get excited when there's a new GW release and will almost religiously purchase the new stuff despite their gargantuan piles of shame/ opportunity.
GW will never feel the pressure to create rules that make for a good game as long as people keep buying the miniatures.
I buy entire armies secondhand. I get almost no citadel paints, and Wahapedia exists, so I don't really buy their dexes either. And I'm not much one for new releases either (Mostly because I could never get them even if I was, lol, always out of stock) So GW sees relatively little money from me. I think there are a ton of people who do the same thing. I own like, 3k of space marines, and I think maybe 200 of that was new kits that I bought from my FLGS.
The day GW create the perfect game is the day GW begin going out of business.
There simply isn't a reason to own an entire army at 40k/30k size - buy it, assemble it and then paint it, if you are not going to play games of 40k/30k to justify that MASSIVE investment.
And once GW make a really good game there will no longer be any reason to release new versions and new minis that might break that perfect game.
SO they make broken games and keep promising to fix it. They learned this from Politicians.
Yeah, there are so many great proxies out there for most GW minis. It's a thriving cottage industry.
Printing is the best. You support small creators. Customize your army. Play whatever ruleset you like. And get to hobby doing the fun parts (painting, building).
@@BonusHoleso if it is broken, don't try to fix it.
One page rules is WH40k without all of the awful stuff that GW does. Pay them $5 a month and get the ability to make your own units with points that make them balanced! Just outstanding.
The fact that 4th Ed AoS feels the need to make this complex onboarding process of "modular" rules shows just how badly mangled the rules writing is.
The reason i left 40k is the constant rule changes and weird culture of meta gaming thats emerging (as well as the price increases).
I just want to play a game and have fun, whats the point of always trying to win?
You can have fun losing a game with your friends, its all part of the experience, you won't win or lose anything
Why don't you just do that then? Have fun with friends. That's what I do.
@@thehangman3105 because the rules constantly shift about, as North said in the video by the time you learn a rule and get comfortable with it, it'll suddenly change.
And since finding other games like Oathmark, Turnip, and Sludge it really shows how badly made the Warhammer tabletop game is built, it's convoluted and bloated
@@the98themperoroftheholybri33 10th in terms of rules I've found pretty stable. Points values change every so often but rules are more often just qa'd for wording to make them more understandable. I can't think of 1 rule change that effected me in 10th.
@@thehangman3105 play another game like Oathmark and you'll understand how bloated Warhammer is
@@the98themperoroftheholybri33 I'm willing to give any game a go. I play loads of diff tabletop games (admittedly not Oathmark but I'll look into it) and I came to this hobby late in life. I just don't understand a lot of the negativity towards 40k rules, also, the stigma that GW are awful and if you like them you are a shill, I love GW models and 40k rules, especially 10th. If I want a quicker more manageable game I suppose I play something like rumbleslam or kill team.
Ive played since 1992. 7th was the last good edition with 3rd ed being the most enjoyable. 10th is just dog shit. Im going back to 3rd ed and battlefleet gothic.
IMHO 3rd edition was the best.
Gw pricing just encouraged me to buy a 3d resin printer. Id rather spend £10 on a stl that i can print as many times as i want than 60-80 a model. Been a tau player since early 2000's. Now i have a full tyranid army all 3d printed. I dont play competive anymore. Only with friends, even clubs are a toxic game. Plying taunament lists with your fun list isnt fun.
For me, part of it was GWs shift to more monopose models. One of the draws was that the kits could be assembled in a variety of ways. But nearly all of the latest stuff is just monopose anyway. Which is literally no advantage over just printing a full mini.
#1 Yep.
#2 Not really. There is always something "better" you could buy if it's a video card or Warhammer or cards or just about anything not required to live day to day.
#3 Yep.
#4.Yep. 40k is a friends, beer and pretzels game for 95% of the players. Yet you can tell the rules are geared toward and written for the other 5%. Along with changes and nerfs.
I also remember them talking about free and electronic rules in the months before 10th came out. They really went back on that even to the point of modifying previously published stuff on the web. They had a real chance and choose shareholder profit over the game.
Same. Got into mantic stuff recently.
I gave up playing when it felt like I was studying for GCSE just to play a simple weekend game. Granted I was never a competitive player.
Thank you for the video. I've been in the hobby for over 30 years and enjoy playing different systems. I recently watched an interview with Rick Priestly where he discussed some of the precursors to original 40k Rogue Trader. This interview further fueled my current nostalgia trip so for less than a battleforce box set i purchased Imperial Commander and nearly 100 15mm infantry with vehicles to try out this blast from the past. More game, less pain if you will. I've been playing lots of one page rules which hands down has the best and free army building app. It makes my friends and I want to play it more. I would also recommend Nordic Weasels excellent Rogue Trader inspired rules Renegade Scout. Old school inspiration and narrative play coupled with modern rule designs and you can use all your current models. It still amazes me the amount of folk in the hobby who only know GW. Perhaps it's time to look out over your 40k trench and find some hard cover with better and more interesting rules systems 😉
I recently started to get into the lore. I love it and am 45 books into the heresy. (I guess technically i am a 30k fan).
I have not even considered playing the tabletop. From the outside looking in, its clear as day that games workshop couldnt care less about their customers. The cost for models is outrageous as well, considering it costs them pennies on the dollar to manufacture.
I have a blast playing 40k with my mates and the rules are pretty simple.
I 1000% AGREE WITH EVERYTHING you said. It's just ruined. I blame the competitive scene for it too.
My group converted to One Page Rules two years ago, almost by accident.
We pulled it out as a fast way to bring in some new players, intending to switch to 40K at a later point.
Later. Never. Happened.
We realized that while the game was faster... we were playing a lot more often.
In a weird way I think the internet has done damage to tabletops gaming. Net lists are a click away. No imagination, no creativity, just a net list. It ruins games, especially card games (MTG and Hearthstone come to mind), but it hurts tabletop as well.
I played fantasy from 2001 and switched to 40k when they blew it up. The lists with used to be more variable because people got what they wanted, not what was hot.
Now, everyone screams if their faction has a 48% win rate and shelves their models until big data shows them to be 51%.
The internet is a blight to gaming because it ruins the building aspect and makes half the community salty right from the start.
I still play 40k, and I actually love it. I am a hyper competitive tournament player, but I pride myself in not using net lists, but crafting my own lists through trial and error.
I completely agree with all points. I been in Warhammer 40k since 4th ed but stop playing since 8th. Life just got busy (started a business, moved, lost my gaming group), but I still made it a point to get games on. I started playing other games (Battletch, Turnup28, Onepage rule, etc) and never been happier. Even through I am single, no debt, house is paid off, and make six figs, I think GW is too expansive, and I just got into 3d printing. I don't know how anyone can afford this hobby beside going into debt, which I have seen people do it multiple time.
Also, I do enjoy AOS, but I just lost my Beast of Chaos army today. I am going to miss my tzeentch theme Beast with spawns, and have no interest in the old world.
And this is why I only do Kill Team. And shamelessly with proxies unless there are GW models I want.
I wouldn't touch 40K without a 3D printer.
Do these complaints not apply to kill team/ warcry, then?
I've only just recently got into minis with kill team and love painting and putting em together.
Any suggestions for other tabletop games with decent minis if the issues persist in kill team/ warcry?
@@RattleSack my point is even if they remove a team from future editions its one box not entire _armies._ The big thing is to make sure you get into something that you can find other player's for.
Been in Warhammer 40k since I was 12, in 3rd edition. Now I'm 33. Avid painter, professional illustrator, so I got in due to the aesthetics, the painting/collecting aspect and the socialization. Last games I played was at the last of 8th. It got so bloated, so degenerate, god forbid you liked fielding anything from forgeworld. For every chill decent dude you encountered 5 "hard-asses" that never bothered to paint their armies, as the next meta change was around the corner and they promptly got rid of it and bought a whole new army. No collecting, no appreciation for the lore, they just wanted to win. More often than not they ended up losing against my thematic lists (Airborne SM Raptor Infantry, Skitarii and IK's, IG tank army...) and I wasn't even trying. In the end as 4h couldn't get you to turn 3, I retired, kept collecting and painting but never looked back.
I will try One Page Rules. Seems interesting.
I am only just getting back into Warhammer after not playing it since 4th edition. But here is a question. What is stopping people from getting together with their friends and just playing with the old rules every now and then?
Nothing is stopping them.
It’s some weird psychological thing with GW players.
@@GurrenLagann98 Lack of actual friends and also the mini-collection-as-value thing, which is why people won't let others play with proxies/3d prints/etc.
Nothing is. But you need to find people who are happy to play it.
If you play the current edition you will always have opponents. You will always be able to watch current videos of tactics etc.
@@FredrickDouglass69 Do the old tactics videos get taken down? Genuinely asking.
Give MESBG a try, the classier gamers choice! You can also use cheaper proxies.
Easily one of the best rule sets
@@skycommander2153 absolutely 👍
Love that you only need 150p worth sometimes
GW seems to leave MESBG alone for the most part, to the point it seems to have the most stable and balanced rules out of all their games.
@@B1-997 by far one of the best games ever made for tabletop.
I bought all the physical books just so when GW eventually come back to it i have something untainted. They have just dropped new model announcements and im still sitting here in hope its just to keep the licensing alive.
That description of 40k's issues as a game system is very well-articulated. I bounced off 8th, which I found to be based wholly on 'gotchas' and gaming the mechanics rather than playing a wargame. Although I wouldn't describe myself as a casual player, and I'm happy enough with long gaming sessions (I pay a lot of board games), I want a wargame to look and feel like an actual battle and to reward tactics that would work well in that context. I got actively annoyed watching battle reports in 8th where bikes were used as combat units to surround tanks, exploiting dimensions of the models rather than actual combat abilities, or Napoloeonic squares designed to block deep strike. I got soured on the gameplay by the conga lines and being punished because intuitively good plays in a wargame like placing heavy weapons units on upper levels of buildings was actively punished by a gamey 'I can charge you through walls, but you can't see to overwatch' melee system.
I haven't found the same in 10th, but still have limited experience with it and have no idea how much of that is the fixing of the more egregious exploits, how much the stage in the release cycle (only a couple of Codices had been released when I last played), and how much simply being part of a less-competitively-focused community that doesn't play the game that way.
All that said it's a low priority for me despite finding it enjoyable enough to play - the games are too long and the exhaustion of the mental load is definitely there. I don't feel prepared to play any other game the same weekend so only try and arrange games on the weekends when I'm not playing other systems, and that's not something I feel with the other GW game systems (except Blood Bowl, but that's because that's a genuinely difficult tactical game - the mental load is where it should be rather than in memorising rules) - I focus mainly on AoS and its side games (and as much as I'd love to play Hail Caesar I don't have the space to store a historical collection thanks to all my Warhammer models...).
I played my first real game of opr last weekend. I just needed a friend to drag into it with me
The main reason I don’t play 40K?
The community in my area.
I have never, I repeat NEVER, had a game against an opponent that didn’t cheat, or steal, or try to belittle me or my army.
Don’t tell me that’s only “a bad part” of the community, it’s 100% of the community from my personal experience.
I’m just not interested in being part of a community that’s so interested in being so petty and miserable.
Whereas here in Glasgow the main 40K communities only care about having fun and you'd be unwelcome to be a knob. But I do know it varies massively by area. One town to the next can go from an bunch of old Dadhammer and to a bunch of LGBTIQIXYZ/^+ who scream "you're a bigot" at everyone who isn't trying to put a tampon up their jacksie.
I am an AoS player now but before that I had a similar experience for 40k. My introductory game was so toxic I am surprised I am still wargaming.
Hope you find a new community that is better for you.
THIS feels like the single biggest issue with the direction of the game now: the introduction of douchey, win-at-all-costs, meta-chasers 😪
I hope you do find a better gaming community to play with. I'm lucky that my immediate group of gaming buddies are chilled enough that we can all happily discuss and modify rules amongst ourselves to give us balanced, flowing games (we always aim for our games to be fun for all involved, rather than just setting out to obliterate our opponent).
@@horuslupercal2385 I’ve given up on it for now.
You play warhammer. Playing with 40K models using 3rd party rules is no less “playing warhammer” then playing with 3d printed bits and models. This didn’t need a rant
In similar boat mate. Been playing since i was a kid, with rogue trader, a few genestealers and some cut up sponge for terrain. The final straw was 10th rules not being free and my "first born" marines being binned by GW.
My answer was opr and a 3d printer. Free rules and literally space marine lego on the printer. I win GW , your heresy has failed, the chapter lives on!
You can still use firstborn marines... At least in tournaments and games workshop. sorry you have shitty friends
@deanhalter2524 I'm curious as to how my humble little gaming group is shitty? Because we play a different ruleset? Because we print most of our minis and terrain? I don't understand.
@@GlennM53 Think he meant because they won't let you use firstborns
@@IHateChrisR He said "Binned" not "banned" as in, they're trash courtesy of primaris.
It’s honestly insane how many people hate 10th and GW as a whole these days! Don’t get me wrong, I’m in that group too but it is just crazy to me that GW have lost basically any good will they may have had in such a short period of time!
My whole gaming group has dropped 40K for Heresy because 40K is just soooo boring. However, trying to find Heresy models in stock is next to impossible so everyone has basically been forced to buy recasts. Hell, I WANT to spend the stupid amount of money to buy genuine forgeworld models, but when stuff is out of stock for 3 months…
Also, don’t even get me started about the competitive side… I am soooo sick of playing against completely proxyed armies that are this army one week then something else the next. The thing is, I don’t even mind letting people proxy as this is a stupid expensive hobby, but man do some people just abuse the ever loving shit outta that good will…
Same problem with the Old World. GW finally releases a great game and you can’t get the models…or books even.
I came back to GW in 2018 after falling out of it due to a combination of lack of a community and a Magic obsession more than anything GW had done, but as someone who stayed with the game through the Kirby era (annual across the board price rises, the removal of sales, White Dwarf turning into a literal advert you were expected to pay for, the 6-months-and-gone specialist games, repeated, persistent and deliberate Codex creep, and nothing resembling an FAQ for any game,k very active litigation against fan communities deemed to infringe on the brand, including the infamous if misrepresented 'GW wants to copyright pauldrons' case), my tolerance for their bullshit is extremely high. Especially as Wizards of the Coast have demonstrated just how rapidly a company can sink and destroy any and all goodwill in a matter of a couple of years.
GW still isn't anywhere near as bad as it was in the Kirby era - it's not even as nakedly greedy at the expense of its games as Wizards of the Coast has become. But it's also not the company it was in 2018, when for the first time in about 40 years it seemed to actually take game design seriously and it had built up a reasonable amount of goodwill through engaging with the community and at least trying to resolve their concerns. They started to haemorrhage goodwill during covid (Cursed City, anyone), but people were understanding of the genuine delays to their products and the price rises inti the cost of living crisis were reasonably restrained, not universal, and could be at least somewhat justified by international events.
That's all now mostly gone. Fixed three year rotations on their games - shorter than even during the Kirby era; an obsession with milking ever more from FOMO boxes (which aren't even a bad innovation as they're the closest GW comes to sales, but have repeatedly created ill-will thanks to GW's consistent inability to gauge demand or resolve supply issues. Never mind the sheer cynicism of putting much of the discount into artificially-inflated 'special edition' rulebooks and then releasing army boxes 6 months or less before the release of a new edition); and above all an increasingly dismissive attitude towards their communities are really starting to bite.
GW seems to have learned the wrong lesson from covid: not that people were patient with the company's issues due to the goodwill it had accumulated, but that it could simply take the playerbase for granted regardless of supply problems. Meanwhile their public outreach has become spectacularly misjudged.
Most obviously the AoS range trim: these are models that, commercially, are mostly irrelevant. The non-Stormcast ranges didn't sell, the Warcry stuff is still on sale to support that game (something they didn't even bother to make clear in the article), and AoS 3 is so much larger than the earlier editions that it's unlikely the Stormcast stuff that was ditched affected that many people. The problem is, GW wrote the piece accordingly - it was unapologetic and seemed very much from the perspective "No one bought these models anyway, so it's not going to cause a fuss". Which commercially is probably true, but completely misjudged the fact that fans' trust in GW was already fraying and that this sort of announcement and this sort of tone upset a lot of people whose models are entirely unaffected (for now - concerns about what will go next are somewhat reasonable - much more of the discussion around Stormcast seems to be from people concerned that models this new are being retired than from anyone actually affected directly by the loss of these models from their armies, but GW simply hasn't bothered to engage with those concerns).
Worse still, their media teams were evidently not instructed how to deal with unhappiness and onm the Warhammer Age of Sigmar Facebook page the admins either didn't engage or responded to unhappiness with "Don't worry, more models are coming and you can buy those" and/or "Play The Old World", a game of interest to a small minority of AoS players - probably even of Beastmen players, and which still isn't over its own supply problems.
You'd think they couldn't stick their feet any further into their mouths ... until the following day when they decided that it would be a great idea to announce an 'enter a competition to win excess stock' at exactly the time people were least happy with the company's product. It was telling that until it was pointed out to them they couldn't even be bothered to remove Beasts of Chaos as a selectable prize option. It seriously starts to look so bad that you'd think the marketing team was actually trying to sabotage AoS 4.
One thing that is worryingly reminiscent of the Kirby era is how the marketing has morphed into a compulsively cheery "Good news! We've found a new way to extract more of your money!" without ever acknowledging not only that they may have done something wrong (and in hard-nosed commercial terms and even looking to the future in game terms, the trim probably wasn't wrong) but that there may be unhappiness in the community about basically anything at all - the portion of the community that isn't happily being gouged just doesn't warrant acknowledgment. Three years ago AoS 3 was advertised as addressing specific concerns players had with long, non-interactive double turns. AoS 4 is being advertised on the back of articles saying such things as "Well, everyone we spoke to loves the double turn, so there!"
Above the politics against customers and high prices, as you said; the game isn't good anymore as tabletop or wargame miniature. Since they reduced the size of battle board at the same time made the miniatures bigger, the maneuvering and tactical aspect has been replace for a combo-maker tactics. So you have big armies without the military tactics component or anything that supports the tedious aspects of the game.
I quit 40K around ten years ago for pretty much the exact same reasons given in this vid. Played 1K Sons and got the new special edition codex box set when it came out, only for the edition to change less than 2 months later and make everything in it useless. At that point I decided never again. No more codex creep, or outrageously high prices with frequent increases, or broken and frequently changing rules, or retarded meta lists gaming up tournaments. Carried on with 30K for a few years after that before eventually stepping away completely for historical wargaming.
I think after the recent gaslighting by GW about female "Custodes" always having been there, even though they haven't, will cause many a player to follow you out the door.
I think the biggest problem is that many folks have mind set of sticking to the current latest edition and finding opponents via GW stores or tournament events rather then sticking to the older ones or even the discontinued specialist games like quite a lot people do these days using models one already has or buying cheaper alternatives from 3rd party manufacturers.
Filmdeg's youtube channel has interviews with the original GW design team. the recent one from Rick Priestly pointed out one of the problems i have with current 40K- the original creators of the game came from a simulation inspired WWII wargame background. the current designers come from a board game/card game background. as such it isn't even 40K to me anymore. i have been playing since 3rd edition, and what i did was help build a large local community that plays oldhammer, mostly 5th edition with a heavy focus on playing thematic 40K aka playing the armies the way the lore says they fight and the old rules that supported it. 40K was always about playing epic battles IN the 40K setting. what it is now is a tournament game with trap cards, mirrored table and an obsession with win rates. making it a very bland game. At least with playing an older edition we never have to worry about GW messing anything up ever again. as for the current cost-completely ridiculous. fortunately i do not really need to buy anything from GW any more as my collection is large enough and if i really need something fun i can get it 3d printed for a fraction of what GW charges for a similar style model.
5th edition was when I started and was my favorite.
6th edition just took too long at the beginning with having to roll for warlord trait and psychic powers which also made you constantly have to recheck what you got. It also had numerous abilities for every unit that you had to keep checking as well. Then finally they introduced mysterious objectives and terrain which you had to roll to see what they were and keep track of the whole game as well.
Also I remember 6th had the insane flyer rule where demons and Tyranids with wings could fly and only be hit on a 6 making them get to your units with basically not losing a single wound. Then they could land and assault your unit at the same time.
GW are the EA of wargaming with their constant paywalling.
Why does everyone refer to Grimdark Future as “One Page Rules?” OPR has several games… not just Grimdark Future.
GW has more than 40K. They just shitcanned AOS and like Warcry I believe... I haven't played a game from GW since the beginning of 8th 40K personally as I saw this coming when they F'd us with the Primaris money grab.
And One Page Rules is the catch all name for their products from Grimdark Future to Age of Fantasy and Armada.
@@MalefaxTheBlack Yes, but this video is why he’s done specifically with Warhammer 40,000. He didn’t mention any of the other games that GW produces (AoS, TOW, Necromunda, WarCry, Kill Team, Horus Heresy, etc.). And, then he mentioned how he enjoys OPR rather than specifically pointing out Grimdark Future.
@@CatchFlipsidE You're making something out of nothing bro.
@@tickledeggz probably so… but everyone does it and it annoys me as OPR has several different games to choose from… and he was specifically mentioning 40K in this video. He’s not the only one to do it. So many others do as well. Bugs me.
Is someone going to say, “I just played a game of Games Workshop” or “I just played a game of 40K?” It’ll be the latter. So, is someone going to say, “I just played a game of One Page Rules” or “I just played a game of Grimdark Future?” I truly hope it’s the latter as the former makes no sense.
I got back into 40k after 20 years ago as soon as got the rule book etc they started changing stuff so I just sold me army already and sticking to horus heresy amd bolt action .
I remember the nostalgia of going to my local games workshop when in my youth it was so awseome back then .
Hi North
This really resonates with me. I have played wh40k since rogue trader skipped 2nd ed but came back in 1999 due to Mordhiem. My introduction to gw was heroquest then spacehulk with the dwathwing and genestealer additions so I'm going back a long time.
I was so happy when gw bought out the start collecting boxes i thought they were going back to their roots and making the game affordable.
I share your despair about being priced out of my game I still love the models the lore the setting but I gave up at the beginning of 8th ed. I had started a family and just could no longer justify the cost. I have since switched to battletech which is a lot more affordable with its beginner box as the game of armoured combat and clan invasion boxes. I love the fact that it is so much more reasonably priced with cool looking models. And I am also tempted by infinity with its fantastic models and its army app that is free to download and use and is updated with feedback from the players. These 2 systems show us companies that respect their players the people who pay good money for their product and listen to what people want. I would also say that battletech players have been the most welcoming people I could of wished to meet to introduce me to their game and make me a part of their community. That's what he and wh40k used to be - like minded people who wanted to play a game with me in a friendly environment in a store where we were welcome.
Gw lost sight long ago that their business depended on people wanting to play their game and buy their models.
Well they wont be getting any more of my money forcthe foreseeable future.
Sad thing about getting into it more recently like myself is how much I started falling out of love with it after just a few months.
Mind you, ive been into the lore for years and have/read many of the Horus heresy & others. Been learning the lore and played Dawn of War, Space Marine and Several other video games bases in the 40k setting.
GW's insane prices for models is completely unjustified nowadays with the onset of 3d printers producing the same quality if not way better than any of the mono-posed GW models and the insane lack of care when it comes to even keeping basic stock of products players want to buy things. GW has not kept up with the times and still relates on the players to find models from from 2000s/1990s instead of producting updated verisons of those models with the cureent tech they have nowadays.
GW pretends to be a business that run by professionals while actually operating like a used tire shop that makes holes in the tires of their own customers to keep them coming back. GW keeps acting like they want new players in the scene to get more customers to buy their products, but due to the high cost of just basic entry into the hobby with a 60$ rules book that is gonna end up as a paperweight within the next 18 months with rules that change so dramatically at times it changes the whole way you can even play your army.
They made the 40k rules app yet make it the Scummiest app ive ever seen. You cant even buy it through a Warhammer + subscription, you have to out right pay for it Separately , and you have to purchase the rule books instead of just the code in the back of the rule books just to use it whatsoever. Yeah in 2024, you cant just buy a code on a peice of paper for like 10$ like I was able to when I went to college in the last 2000s so I had access to a textbook online because GW just needs to squeeze that 60$ out of you.
Take for example, Deathwatch.
I got into Deatwatch because I like their lore & easier to paint color scheme. Deathwatch during 9th edition was one of the top picks, an army to Contend with. However, GW made some Ridiculous changes to how space marines Operate in their own rules which suddenly made playing Deathwatch a actual death sentence. You cant even play them as Ironspear Detachment due to how broken the character rules are for them & the way their stratagems work. And of course removing our second Oath of Moment was not helpful whatsoever. Drathwatch now in the middle of 2024 with no new 10th edition rules for likely another year, now is at the bottom of the barrel in tournaments and are one of the least played armies roght now.
I have had a single win out of at least 7 games Ive played up to this point and I only won that game on secondaries by 3 whole points. How am I as a new player suppose to feel good at what im doing or get a Notion of any kind of success if I only lose all the time?! Its Demoralizing and makes me want to play less and less due to no matter how many more models I seem to buy or Different detachment rules or models I field in any games I play, I feel as if I have no idea what im suppose to do and nothing is explained to you whatsoever.
That leads me to the "Community" Aspect of the tabletop scene which Ive had the biggest mixed messaging of any nerdy community in my whole life. I get players who are veteran players with amazing looking armies and are well respected players who at least almost bend over backwards to help you and you get people who just wanna gatekeep and when you call them out on it or their terbile behavior toward you or others, they make you feel as unwelcome as possible instead of being grown ass adults about a tabeltop game.
As of late I have felt pretty unwelcome within my local scene and even tho I keep trying to be positive toward them and want to get games in, I can barely get a Sympathy game by someone. Meanwhile we got in 2 new players to join us and what do you think the other players in my scene did for them? Nothing. They bascially just got both new players to game with each other and didnt even bother to even entertain the idea to even have a proper game with either of them. So for the last few weekends, I have only seen these 2 guys just make games with about 1k points of Space marines models going at each other.
My girlfriend wants me to continue the hobby but I just can’t justify it anymore. A damn graphics card for my PC cost the same as two tanks in Warhammer 40K and I find that outrageous. The rule books alone are too expensive for what they do and I don’t want to be killing my phone battery using an app or website. For the price of some armies you can buy a new phone, a new computer, tv, even put a down payment on a car. This may just be me but no one should have to drop that much money on a toy soldier game to keep up with everyone else at the standard level of game play.
im glad someone brought this up, early edition was about 'kill the enemy' until someeone conceaded, a game could be 40 mins and was still as much fun
As is often the case - publicly floating the company was the beginning of the end. It's taking a lot longer than I expected though, probably because the price of stuff is going up faster than the player base is dropping.
Totally agree with game length being a problem. I like playing but taking 3 to 4 hours for a single game is just too much. And trying to do a small tourney where you have to do 3 games in a single day is just brutal.
Totally agree. I've been playing on and off since the mid-90s, always as a casual player. It's with 10th edition that I've finally reached the end of my rope - I just can't be bothered to learn the rules for the game and 6 armies *yet again*. I had already been benching 3 or 4 armies for the last couple of editions because I would buy expensive codex books only to use them once or twice, or not at all, before they are obsolete.
Not to mention GW's general shittiness. I'd much rather give money to other game companies.
LIKES FOR THE LIKE GOD; COMMENTS FOR THE COMMENT THRONE.
I understand where your coming from.
I enjoy 10th as it's more dumbed down than 8th and 9th but still isn't what I want.
I started the game during the last leg of 4th and mostly played during 5th. In My opinion there was no better rule set than 5th. Modifiers were little and rerolls was a luxury.
With the community side of things, I lived and grew up in wales and had a massive gaming group which would meet upto 4 times a week and there was a plethora of players so getting fun casual games was easy and we created groups of players based on what they wanted. Forward onto 2019 and I migrated to the otherside of the world and now I have only just found a group of people who are like minded. For the last 5 years I've had to settle for "that guy" players and rarely enjoy it.
I haven't played in a tournament for 3 years now and got a nice flow of regular games and looking forward to more.
Hope you find what you're looking for dude.
man i got into the hobby recently and out of curiosity i decided to read the 2nd and the 4th edition core rules. just by reading them it was a blast, it's sad to see how far gw is fallen
Walked away from current after 7th. My friend and I as well as my discord play old eds (4th mostly) and I'm currently talking with them about creating an alt. HH universe and also making a Rogue Trader to 4th ed hack to make it even more rpg and random based as opposed to line up and shoot things.
I walked away from GW, 40K and WHFB in 2001.
The reason I walked away was for two of the reasons you mentioned. Bad Rules, and bad codex/army books.
The rules for both 40K and WHFB just kept getting worse and worse, with half hearted attempts of trying to "balance" them.
I was sick of within 2-3 months of the last army/codex book being released the new version of the game would drop.
It really was off putting for a lot of players when their faction was one of the last ones to drop before it was just then made obsolete by the new edition.
This from a person who originally played WHFB 2nd edition and Rogue Trader.
GW was a different company in the late 80s and into the 90s and had already gone down the path you see today by 2001.
What game we did play was the original Blood Bowl, the FGLS had a Blood Bowl league that ran for a few months at a time.
It also ran an Epic league well as Necromunda league.
But as far as 40K and WHFB, both those games died at the FLGS, as I was not the only person who was sick of what GW was doing to both those games.
Gw seems to be doing the Exclusive box reveal thing from 10 years ago mixed with games as a live service.
Your OPR video encouraged me to finally try it. GW continually makes me happier for doing it, especially with the recent news that they're putting even fairly recent models out of production. Keeping up with the "treadmill" seems straight-up foolish to me now.
OPR is such a fun, malleable system that it managed to get my friends who are not hobby people interested in playing. Still won't buy or paint miniatures but I have a big collection, so I made many teams for them to piece together and play. Now these people, who are classic partygoers, are giving me ideas for cool terrain pieces and conversions. I didn't think this shit was even possible.
I cannot stop recommending this fucking system. I even got some samurai minis and used a FANMADE armybook on OPR's armybuilder and it was actually balanced and fun fighting against an official armybook. It's nuts.
I started playing last year. I’m already out. What a bummer.
Same here. What an awful experience. Have played OPR and that was much more fun so going with that.
Having just finished Realm of Ruin as a 40K player thought "oh those stormcasts are pretty cool , maybe I should pick up a spearhead and try AoS" ,,.,, 4 days later they deleted half of the Stormcast line from existance.
Warlord Games is waiting for you, my friend! Rules, models and community is awesome. And as many all ready say: OPR is also there for your old models. I got fed up with GW prices too but what really got me disgusted is how you can never reach a peek because there is always gonna be new codexes and editions.
Problem is, it’s in GW’s interest for the game of 40k to fail, because at the moment the demand for their models is out stripping their ability to produce them.
So they don’t GAF about people not playing the game, but still buy the minis.
Until people stop buying their models, they will consider 40k the game a success.
The reason for the price rises is two fold. It means demand goes down, but profits stay high.
GW know that they can come round your house and shoot your granny, and you will still buy their crack!
It won’t last forever though.
The game will die, and eventually most of the business will follow.
The best way to fight back is to preserve and play old editions.
The 2nd edition group of Facebook is pinging like a goodun’.
I’d like at 6th/7th group to pop up at some point.
Maybe even an 8th edition group.
But I’m a blast marker aficionado myself.
I got into Warhammer 40k in 2020 and after hearing how expensive that hobby was I was kinda surprised by the actual retail prices.
But in my country alone the prices went up by 50% since.
50% over 3,5 years.
Not everything, mind you. Imperial knights went up by about 17% IIRC but the basic 10 man squad of marines? 40-50% up.
It's ridiculous.
And when I heard they're increasing prices due to INFLATION I got furious... Cause they adjusted prices to inflation IN MY COUNTRY at the end of last year on top of general price increase. This is not due to inflation. They did country-specific increases for that.
Then there's the deal with units going into legends.
When I joined the hobby the rule of a thumb was "Old models are still viable". Now they're not. I can put them on the table as a stand-in for a new, better unit... Except I often can't due to different base sizes. I had to change bases under my Bikers to make them count as Outriders. I'd need to do the same with Dreadnoughts.
But the real insult are the "replacements". Take those Dreadnoughts as an example.
I've built 3 old-style Boxnoughts. A regular one and 2 venerables. They have exchangeable arms. I kitbashed another missile arm from spare missiles of a plane model and a missing melta arm (from the HH Special Weapons box). Other than those 2 I could field any of those 3 with any combination of weaponry and IT'LL WORK.
New "Replacement" Dreadnoughts? There are 3 separate sets and they share weapons from old dreadnought between them. They could have made one kit out of it like it used to be. Make it more expensive because there's a lot of stuff and a bigger model. But no - it's greedy. They turned 1 dreadnought into 3 because they wanted people to buy more plastic.
I'll keep what I have right now and play with friends. We'll decide on the rules that we find decent and not bother with new editions and erratas.
Hell. I'll print the 9th edition rules for my friend's faction and we'll play the 9th. We'll make up the rules for his Norn Emissary. For a time being I am done with GW's bs.
Wizards of the Coast have the same problem with magic the gathering. It used to be a cool niche card game that while not for every budget you could buy all the booster packs you needed to make a decent deck for under a hundred and play a decent deck for at least a year before they came out with the next set.
Now they come out with new card rules and new sets 4 to 5 times a year and each set is designed to be more powerful and to completely nullify the effects of any previous set.
The competitive seen also is one of the most toxic I have ever seen. People will drop thousands of dollars to buy the most powerful tournament-winning deck and try to play it against people who have only been playing for maybe a month or so.
Top tier meta garbage brought to an LGS to buy packs you literally don't need because you already have the best cards in the set.
MtG lost me when they ended the "stack" and dumbed the game down so much it made Snap look like Grandmaster Chess.
Yeah, GW and WotC have been pissing in the faces of their fanbases for years but, somehow, they keep getting away with it.
Pro MTG is beyond a joke. There are so many videos on youtube catching out MTG Pros cheating, why anyone takes that game seriously, I'll never understand it.
There's a reason why i've not brought my orks into 10th and stuck with 8th. If i could convince my group to switch to 3rd or 3.5 i would do. We've a gorkamorka campaign coming up and most of us have miniatures from alternate companies or 3d printing.
During 5th edition I switched over to fantasy. I loved it. I know the rules were minutia driven, but the game was analytical and I loved that aspect. Then drops age of sigmar. Terrible 1 page rules system. At the time, the complex rules was seen as a barrier to entry. Now 40k is easily as complex as fantasy, but maybe even more since you will never know all of the army rules you are playing against. I agree the pacing of rules changes feels bad, it has paced me out of the hobby. The price is another major factor. I thought about getting into 10th with Tau. I priced out a 2k army for 1000$. That's not the GW store price, that is from independent retailers. The opportunity cost of spending 1000$ on this hobby is terribly high knowing that these models are on a timer and I will need to buy more to keep up with the meta and rules changes. Because of age of sigmar replacing fantasy, I will not get into old world because I don't trust games workshop. They will kill units in armies will rules changes, they will kill armies with new editions, they will kill entire game systems when it suits them. This causes me too much buyers anxiety when thinking about buying a new army especially with the price where it is. It's too bad because I love the lore, I love the armies, I love the models.
Oh a rant I love those!
I feel the same about AoS now. They’ve just squatted my beasts of chaos army, just like my old squat army when I played 40k as a school kid. The only GW games I play now are Legions Imperialis, Warmaster and Warhammer the Old World. I’ll look up one page rules for my 40K and AoS collection.
I have enjoyed games this (and last) edition, I've also had games that've made me want to quit Warhammer all together. For models, the only time I will buy officially is maybe once a month or 2 to help support local stores, I can't afford to do it regularly, and is part of the reason I invested in a 3d printer. I cannot stand competitive games with miniature wargaming. Because I can neither afford or want to spend $500 on models I may not even like just so my army doesn't get blown off the table turn 2 because my local scene is heavily competitive focused. The only reason I even have a single Warhammer model is because of the lore of the setting and I much prefer casual games and for heavier ones, narrative games.
Does anyone know where to find the One Page Rules for the 40K armies Northern Exile is referring to? I'd like to check it out, it sounds like something that would bring more people to the hobby in my area. Most responses I get to invite people to the table for 10th edition are a resounding 'no,' not because it isn't an interesting and potentially fun game but because the learning curve is huge and the rules read like an open book test in college.
I love the models but I've always hated that my entire army can die before I even get to move. It's like how in Yugioh you can lose before playing a card but that's only 10-40 mins not 40+ lol.
The models are great but cost an arm and a leg. I came from static military models like airfix and reveal and Gundam kits. I first started playing dystropian wars and it's brilliant, easy to learn and cheep to buy but it's uncommon and hard to find people. The models are great but started of mid but warcradle listen and improved their models.
I started 40k because of a freind who's played since 8th and I started in the middle of 9th but brought my first model just before 10th. I started a year ago playing battletech and it's the best game I've ever played. I'm slightly bias as I love mecha and really love Macross which battletech took designs from.
I buy BT often and DW every so often (but I own a shit ton of dystropian wars anyway) and 40k for Bdays and Christmas. With BT you just buy a lance, map and maybe a book or use a PDF, dystropian wars you buy a fleet starter, everything else is a free PDF,rules , templates, unit states, faction rules you name it it's a free PDF. 40k you buy a army, core book, faction book, supplement book, faction cards, supplement cards.
I played one game of 10th edition with my brother when it started using the Leviathan box. Rules creep and codexes have made it impossible to keep a brand new casual player interested. And after the AoS culling today, we'll likely just switch to OPR. With GW your rules aren't safe and your models aren't safe
I'll be honest I find nostalgia is a big draw with 40K.
It's in the Lord of the Rings/00's anime/Age of Empires 2 bucket of nerdiness to me. Mid 00's comfort food from my teenage geekhood that's always easy to revisit and is a constant in a changing world. As I said in your live chat I don't play it much or at all anymore but hell yeah I'm still gluing sprues, making bases and painting stuff up as best as I can in my early thirties.
When all's said and done a painted army is much cooler than a row of airfix planes, and there's nothing wrong with the modelling to be your outlet. Anyone taking their models out of the arena of battle and displaying them on some nice lit Kallax shelving are still well and truly in the hobby in my book. I've not actually tried one page stuff yet though.
Edit: As far as budget goes I probably spend about £20-25 per month on the hobby at this point. A handful of sets and paints a year. I'm happy to pay the equivalent of 4 pints a month on this. I think the real problem there is the barrier of initial entry and this initial outlay is really high now though. You want to copy your favourite RUclipsrs paint schemes and get all the paints, brushes, basing components and get an army on the table? Yeah it's well into the hundreds and pushing a grand in 2024. Which is just obscene. It gets better in time when you've got cases of paints and models and a couple of armies under your belt over the years (and are just "maintaining" your hobby) but the initial financial outlays are actually brutal when going in as a complete newbie.
Your "barrier to entry" point is bang on.
I used to play many years ago, dropped out in 4e. Came back late in 9e, as my son was of an age where he wanted to learn how to play the game. I was over the moon, based on my nostalgia. Setting us both up with the minimum core basics was _eye-watering_ Core rules, a codex each, a few boxes of minis each, paints... It was well over £500 - _just to get started_
I have a decent enough income that I can afford to throw money around without worrying, but it's a massive barrier to entry, especially amongst kids (who are of course the next generation of hobbyists). I've spoken with many other parents who've stated that the cost involved in starting a hobby that will very possibly get dropped by the wayside in 3-6 months (as many activities are during this age range) puts them off encouraging their kids into the hobby.
@@Daemonik I don't blame them frankly.
Hell even a combat patrol with 10 paints and a wash, a spray can, codex, basing sand and even budget brushes is going to be more of an outlay than a Nintendo Switch in Cex. And as much as I like 40K I know which would be the more hype thing to have as the big Christmas present for your average 9 year old. It's one of those things were if you've already bought your ticket and have a load of sprues in boxes, loads of paints, a couple or armies or more on the go etc then it's reasonably (dare I say) cheap to maintain (my 40K outlay is a fraction of what the average smoker spends a month for example) but yeah that initial dropping of cash when you're new to it is savage. You're essentially buying top priced art supplies and top priced miniatures at the same time. And a signficant amount of each.
i agree with all the 40k stuff but i actually think the old world release has been brilliant, its revitalised my love of the hobby. im still annoyed i havent managed to get the ravening hordes book yet but all those amazing old sculpts coming back is a dream come true. i cant wait to see what beastman and warrior of chaos stuff will come out. hopefully some of the old realm of chaos models!
I go into one of my old LGS a few times a month to try to get a handle on 40K, and it is a friggin slog. The game is supposed to start at 7pm but by the time you get an opponent and get your stuff together it's been about 30-45 mins then the game just goes on and on. I often have to leave by 9 or 10 and the game is only on turn 2 or 3. I love the hobby and building/painting models but I may just not do the game. I just don't have that type of time to play one game. When I played Warmachine, I could get 2 or 3 games in a night. GW just needs to take a lesson from One Page Rules.
Damn. That does sound like a slog. Last game I had took 2 hours, and that is with a lunch break.
Just got into miniature gaming with orks combat patrol. Once I have painted almost half the box I quickly got more backlog includig the ultimate starter set and leviathan box because of the savings and was trying to learn the rules but was shocked with the amount of codexes released and from just getting the leviathan box now learning that they have new rules and points in just months.
I remember thinking when I learned about the codexes I though it was just a cash grab and now here we are I have a ton of backlog (5 armies to paint with lots of other boxes like blackstone fortress and catacombs box) and I feel I might have to avoid competitive games and forced to be casual or just play solo. It is super sad and if someone informed me of this I might just avoid warhammer and aos and put my money somewhere else like a ps5 since it seems I won't be able to play with other players as casual games are pretty rare from our local shops.
It is so sad since I love the lore and the characters but GW seems to be a company mainly focused on greed and stupidity rather than care for their customers.
I'm a brand new Tyranids 10e player, and the ONLY reason my group of friends got me into this hobby, is that we have access to 3D prints. Without that, I wouldn't think twice. I have a small collection of things from GW, Codex, 25 Hormagaunts, 5 Barbguants and a Flyrant. Unless it's infantry for bulk, I'm 3D printing or finding the rest second hand.
More of a fan of Painting insofar though. For display I kinda want to make a false Terrarium for my space bugs..
Edit to add: Bought all the GW stuff from LGS instead of direct. Got some deals and small savings there.
"Games workshop cant write rules" Yep, thats across the entire range. Necromunda has been glued together by the community, Bloodbowl was better before GW came back to it and stole NAF content and existing games have been cut up into shells of existence.
Stock is near non existent and buying recasts is no longer a morality issue, its the only way to get stock most of the time for anything ever.
I can fully understand you. And I actually like rules havy games. Yet I expect to learn and understand them. Not have them constantly changing. I already said it as 9th edition was dwindling down and 10th showed up at the horizon. What's really taking the joy out of it for me is that I more or less get handed a new game about every 3 months. Everything is constantly changing, and as someone who pöays at frequency of 'games per year' that'sjust bad.. Also, as you said, that they still expect you to spend insane money on books that are already outdated before they get shipped is, at best, a terrible joke. By now it feels what keeps that company going isn't the quality of their product but them being so big that even those who rather play any of the competition have more likely than not by starting out with a GW game.
when people ask me why i banished gws from my life. ill show them this video now
I for one prefer Infinity, because it is the closest thing to my beloved Mass Effect. Plus, small squad based games are easier to handle, mechanics wise, and on a regular table. And the aesthetics are chef's kiss. Plus, I also have a 3D printer, and a lot of sci-fi/cyberpunk minis fit in the Infinity universe perfectly, and can be used in other games too.
I probably need to send you a rant of my own (Not at you, I'm in agreement with you) because in a slightly different way, I arrived at the same conclusions. My sister got me a 3dprinter for my birthday last month, and I actually looked into printing minis, found it WAY more economical, and then really deep dived into OPR and other games, and I can't believe I've gone this long and spent that much money on games like 40k.
And at the end of the day, I feel the same as you. Sad. I miss the fun and good times, so my gameplan now is to recreate it in Grimdark Future. As soon as I get settled up north in a few months, I'm printing a few armies, and I'm going to direct my content towards setting up tables and launching a narrative campaign.
Sold almost all my 40k minis, then bought a 3d printer and printed everything again but for me only. Barelly get anything GW anymore but MESBG and some specialist game stuff because they are the games that are actually good and need support.
My last game of One Page Rules, I flat out said to my buddies I was done with GW. Mainly citing the pricing but the rule set goes hand in hand. Trying to keep up with a valid army, it is truly exhausting.
Agreed on all count's. Originally I thought I survived the Matt Ward dark days of 40k, but my gaming group slowly and unintentionally gave up around 7th edition. In retrospect it was indeed because 40 is a bad game. With competition on the tabletop space we embraced many systems and are avid in the Battletech community. There is still fun in the hobby and with 1 page rules, I don't feel like my current models are going unused. Cheers!
When you had 3rd Ed Eldar what were you running? I was kid back then as well but I found fire dragon spam + grav tanks with the move-shoot-move upgrade did quite nicely against SM & CSM.
Modern day 40k really does suck the life and soul out of you in more ways than one.
I too have decided to completely walk away, and in no half-assed measure. Had already sold off about 2/3 of my collection 3 years ago, but roughly a month ago now I quite literally dragged everything I had out of storage then threw out or gave away my entire remaining pile of shame and most of my armies. Well over $15k AU worth of stuff if buying new. Didn't take even a single cent for it, just wrote it off as a loss.
I kept one small marine army of around 50 models, maybe 2000 points tops under current rules. It'll possibly get used under One Page Rules every now and again, but otherwise it will be kept in a display case as a memento of the better times.
The game is no longer what I used to love, and GW prices have gone beyond ludicrous. I'm not poor either, but I can't justify paying those costs any longer. I also don't have that much time to spend on the games these days, playing maybe once a month.
Games of 10th are horrifically slow - a typical 1500 point per side game now takes 3-4 hours on a good day thanks to all the interrupts, rule bloat and additional 'random' game elements like all the extra D3/D6 rolls for number of attacks/damage that drag the game down. Spent more time looking up rules and stat cards than moving miniatures and rolling dice. Quite often we got so damn bored we simply ditched the game mid way through and went out to get lunch or started chatting about other things instead. This was a big part of my decision to walk away.
In 3rd to 5th ed days, we could get through a full 6-7 turn game of 1500 points per side in under 2 hours. Rules were simple and straight forward. Everyone used the same base detachment, and even though armies could be customized to good degree by adding certain characters to change certain unit roles, or using rules like the Imperial Guard doctrines to modify some units, everything was still quick and easily to explain, and you generally knew what you were going up against before the game started. None of these 'gotcha' stratagems.
Games were engaging, funny things often happened with insane successes or epic fail dice rolls, people had a laugh over it, good times had by all. Good proper, actual fun. Player base back then had a far better attitude too. Saddens me greatly to know that those days are long gone.
Couldn't have chose a better day to upload this!
The fact that they made it a unit for unit activation instead of I go first and annihilate you is a major step in the right direction for one page rules
I played WFB 1E-4E; 40K from 1E to 5E and Space Marine 1-2E: they started the 'Pay for Power' bullcrap really early and ran with it. Apart from a game of Kill Team 1E (which was decent) my last match was 3 Hour 5E 40K game followed by my opponent ranting at me for 5 hours because 'he never lost and did not want me to tell people I'd beaten him'
OPR + a 3D printer is love
Alternating Unit Activation is the one critical change that GW seems unwilling to implement
Where was this video 2 months ago...
I'm new to the hobby... BUT.. you could have saved me a LOT of money, time, and remorse...
Now I have a ...large... firstborn collection...
You have put every thought I have had since the day I bought into the hobby... in to eloquent words