e-bike upgrade to two hub motors
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Adding a second hub motor drive to an e-bike. My experience.
Thanks to:-
Wikipedia
Violamart Hub Conversion www.voilamart....
West Coast Electric Cycles video (they no longer seem to trade) • How to Waterproof your...
Top source! Tony's experience an review (ebikechoices.com) of Violamart Kit ebikechoices.c...
Making it legal - my inspiration Andy Kirby (Essex!!) • ONE FOR THE HATERS - T...
MSVA Test Entry point www.gov.uk/veh...
UK Electric bike licensing www.gov.uk/ele...
Installing the first hub (with blood and sweat) • BUILDING A FAST ELECTR...
Top source Tom Stanton - his great saga • Electric bike V3
Eastern Bloc Rabbit hole - brilliant! • An Ultimate Test of Th...
VanMoof - £1800 of legal loveliness for men • Are E Bikes any good? ... (FullyChargedShow)
Impressive designs on FullyCharged • Robert electrifies his...
Q& A Forum bicycles.stack...
Facebook
DIY e-bikes group / 144951402623545
Strictly Hub Motors / 2137184879932374
ebike Enthusiasts / 1557534354520788
e-bikes UK / 2233874716836379
ebikesussess / ebikesuccess
More visual details:-
• Can one Speed Controll... 
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No need to apologize for the quality this is one of best ebike videos I've watched.
Thank you. There are some more to come - when I get the time. :)
I made my ebike with two motors and two batteries because one motor is in the middle, another is in front. They have two independent electrical systems. Great video😀!
Thanks - how do you control the motors?
What an absolute legend. U clearly know your stuff and have just helped me a great deal. I thank you!!
This is appreciated - good luck.
That is the most informative and easy to follow instructional video that I have seen. Thank you.
Thank you.
planning to add another battery, controller, motor(not hub, i'm going cheap) to my diy ebike, thanks for the video, now i know how
What motor have you selected? Let me know how you get on.
@@richard_wenner ruclips.net/video/DCHx3VXCLx0/видео.html this is the first gear motor, now im planning to add another 24v gear motor to the left rear side, since i don't have any welding skill so no welding for me, also bmx not the best bike for this type of conversion :)
Thanks for the explanation. Before watching the video I added a 1000w to the front of a 36v 350w EMTB with a 48v 2nd battery, but I did not connect the brake shutoff cables, thinking I might short something out. I preferred to keep everything that was stock intact but I'll tap into the break switch now. I'm using a thumb throttle and a full twist on the same side and I can simply extend my thumb to the thumb throttle while twisting to activate both motors.
Factory machinery always has large red safety switches and I really would not to ride any machine without the break cut-off's connected. These things have more power than a struggling (panicking) human can control. How convenient do you find your throttle control to be?
@@richard_wenner it was working well. I ended up buying a rear 750w kit and taking off the front motor because I couldnt fit the disc brake calipers on the bike in question. I'd rather have disc brakes instead of the older ones
@@rlanesports Discs are preferred - my braking distance is pathetic - given the weight of the battery and my 22 stone. I've had to commission special wheels for a recumbent I've designed.
Thanks a lot for this Instruction. It works perfect with my 2x1000W Engines @ 1 29Ah Battery
Brilliant! Happy cycling.
I have a quick question does the pedal assist work on both motors
are u in the uk and how hard was it to register it as a moped and all that?
Richard, thanks so much for this video. Last week I did exactly how you advised and it worked perfect even on my eChopper (Citicoco) upgrade (2x2kW/60v/20A/double motor double battery). Especially I appreciate your simple, short, direct explanation and most importantly why on one more powerful controller it will not work!
Pleased to hear of your happiness - safe riding!
Excellent wiring advice! Thank you… it was a thought to either upgrade my motor and battery, or this…
Glad it was of help. More to come thi smonth.
Two independent systems on one bike , even with two batteries, rolling redundancy is what you inspired plus power , using one pedal assist and 1 thumb throttle
Regenerative braking is a recurring topic option too.
Just about to do the same thing. Second-hand legacy system (24V-250W mid-drive) by adding a 48V front hub and “over-volting” the original motor. To give a 48V-1000W system.
To get around the controller problem, I will using a dual hub controller that is used on e-scooters. Hope it helps others with weak legacy systems.
It will be interesting to see what effect this has on the balance. I played with setting the front hub at 250w and the rear at 1500w - not again. Let me know how you get on.
Boss! My second wheel arrived today and your video was suggested- i had the same ideas exactly. I also weigh around 300lbs, and live in the hills of South Carolina. Coaster brake was like trying to stop a train- i thought my single speed wheel would just ignite... So i have disc brakes and adjustable mounts on order as well. I look to be making a new video in a week or so. *Salutes*
Good news! Keep it coming :)
This video is absolutely fascinating and so incredibly well made.
Thank you I'm working on a follow-up at present.
I have 2 violamart 36v kits with 2 separate batteries and controllers hooked up to a single twist throttle and used parts of the other throttle assembly (battery gauge and power button) to engage the front wheel as needed. With my bike using 2 batteries I had to hook the low voltage throttle ground wires together ,split the white throttle wire to both controllers and used the red low voltage throttle wire from the back wheel to power the throttle assembly and it works really well it'll go around 30mph using both wheels
If you have connected the two at the throttle then you have a very small signal wire connecting the two batteries. I hope nothing goes wrong for you. Thanks for the feedback and happy cycling.
Great walkthrough 👍
Great project 👍
Thanks for sharing 👍😀
Thanks for your response!
Thank you! Appreciated
Great Video, very well made thank you.
Thank you.
I'm building a duel drive recumbent quad velomobile. On road mode, 250w 2WD limited to 25kph. Off-road mode, 4x4 8kw (4x2000₩ 20inch hub motors).
You've definitely helped me out. I'm subscribing.
Thanks - best of luck. Do please keep me updated. I'm now looking at a quad following my tri ruclips.net/video/CnJ1kYMNbxs/видео.htmlsi=XIQsfM0Amn3Mqtlq
@@richard_wenner you are building a quad for two?
@@davidcarr2649 or a quad for four although I think this would definitely cause interest with the local fuzz. AliExpress appears to have many cheap go-cart bases with steering and suspension for about £600 which appears to be great value (if they will ship them to the UK). btw that meter reference is here:- www.amazon.co.uk/Precision-Analyzer-Consumption-Performance-Backlight/dp/B07M5XD4G9/ref=asc_df_B07M5XD4G9/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309857966843&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16471503113968056366&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045425&hvtargid=pla-633698426290&psc=1&mcid=d352271c4f853e24921bdd00189b61d5
Thanks for all the concise and important information! Was wondering if it was possible to run two controllers off a single PAS/Throttle, answered it with confidense :)
Happy cycling.
I was wondering how this was doable. This is awesome thank you
Ah just an innate natural talent and perspicuity but seriously thanks for your reply - that I have only just discovered. There is more due in October.
Thank you so much! I have the exact same setup that I am installing on a 1965 JC Higgins bike. I already blew up one controller. I wish I would have seen this sooner!
Good luck. I'm working on the next one that attempts to monitor the total energy/efficiency change over time. Stay safe. R
Merry Christmas Richard! I spent some time today in my studio working on my all wheel drive electric bike. Thanks to your great instruction it works perfectly! You have been a great help to me. Thanks!
@@timabbott2514 Pleased to have been some help. Happy New Year and Happy Cycling :)
Hi Richard, I built my bike last Winter and it screams! Mine is 2000 watts with a 20 amp hour battery. Thank you for your insight on the wiring! I would love to send you pictures.
Very nice explanation of the wiring. Thank you for making the video!
Well thanks for your reply and comments. Makes it worthwhile. Happy cycling.
A very fun project, thankyou for sharing. In regards to the Throttle setup- I found that a right hand twist throttle(rear) and a left handed thumb throttle(front) is very comfortable to operate. 2 isolated independent systems. My current experience. :)
Ah, but I'm an old man lacking your dexterity. Interesting to know that it works for you. How do you deal with the breaking?
I like the attitude. Thank you Sir.
You explained it well
Thank You
I have mid Bafang 750, waiting for a 500w front motor.
I'll install 2 motor, 2 controller in one throtle and one 20ah battery
I will use split cable, 1 throtle to two controller
Lol, Had the same idea! I have a BBSHD running for a few years now. Am interested in adding a 500w Bafang hub to the front.
Upgrading the battery from 13ah to 20ah to support two motors.
But I would go with two throttles, one on each side and two displays. Both systems would be independent except for power supply and the brake connections.
Primary reasons - more torque on the take off and hill climbing. As well as a backup propulsion system if the chain breaks. (Had that happen once. No fun.)
I had an old build many years ago with two hub motors that worked very well.
Yes the possibilities are endless - perhaps a pursuing drone that swoops down and flies you to hospital in the event of an accident - or at least is trained to fly down and perform a quick puncture repair (whilst administering hot tea)?
Good video and very informative !!
has helped me answer to questions I had regarding my own project
Thankyou :)
Thank you!
I m here for some answers. I m trying to build a side by side tandem cycles and wish to run two hub motors equal in power and output to.the rear two wheels of the quad (side by side tandem) SO. I have been rating my brain on multiple designs and options.
mmm I've been looking at trikes and cargo bikes - there are some interesting designs ruclips.net/video/NsozVg6ANRQ/видео.html
Very clear and concise video beautifully explained 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
Thank you.
the only thing i would mention is to keep an eye on the front forks and the ebike motor, i have heard the motor can damage the forks over time and when accelerating hard can rip out causing you to fly over the handlebars, im not sure how true that is but because of that on my bike i have the motor mounted at the rear with 2 large 5mm thick steel plate as that seems to be the only thing that can handle the torque
Mmm yes, I have the same fear with one of my bikes that has an aluminium frame. It's light and I can weld it if necessary BUT I'm aware of invisible weakness and fracture failures that are bound to happen over time (particularly with the ever growing number of pot holes here).
The other thing is the adoption of torsion bars. Again, ordinary bike frames do not consider the level of torque that modern motors can produce.
Thanks for your contribution and happy cycling! :)
Very well explained :-)
Danke.
I thought it was the opposite - you could run two motors on one controller, but each motor needed its own battery. Thanks for the info. I've built a 48v 1000w front hub bike with a 52v 20ah battery - does 30mph with about a 30 mile range (at top speed, throttle only, I don't pedal either - didn't even install the PAS) Currently converting a Sun Baja fat tire trike - 2000w - single motor for now - but will likely upgrade to AWD for more hill climbing and off-road performance
No PAS, no pedalling - spot on!
@@richard_wenner - my next project, at least the plan is, to build a sort of 4WD, mini one-seater, golf cart - with solar charging. Maybe you can tell me if it's possible to wire the solar panel so the power generated gets routed to, and used by, the motor (supplemented by the battery) - but also automatically switches to charging the battery when the motor isn't running (like at stop lights or when parked)?
@@DwayneShaw1 Unless you have incredibly bright sunlight or massively large or super efficient solar panels the differential between power in and power out is likely to be so large that it is best to separate and protect the battery charging circuit from the motor driving circuit.
Brilliant! Thank you!
Cheers :)
thanks for the vid, cleared things up for me. cheers
Thank you.
Excellent video, just what I was looking for!
Glad you enjoyed it and now you can back to real life :) With a little oil I've just recorded 52mph!! Will have to calm it a little.
thanks great tutorial....gonna use this on my nephews powerwheels car (hoverboard brushless motors added to the rear)
Do let us know how you get on. :)
@@richard_wenner sure thing,already bolted the motors to the rear ,just waiting on the battery to arrive,(and maybe an rc remote cutoff switch) will keep you updated :)
@@runningwithscissors7715 ok :)
i think given time and enough demand displays will become available that shows the temps of each motor.
i live on a very big and some what steep hill - 2 miles, all down hill, to town. i am considering a dual motor with regen breaking on the rear hub only, to help slow the decent. ideally the bicycle would be a fat tire snow bike. my best guess for motor power would be 1000w rear and 750w front. i would love a belt drive with a pinion gearbox - yes, i can afford it - but i just don't see that happening 'til pinion's patent runs out in about 20 or so years.
let me know how you get on
amazing video looking forward to viewing more great content very informative and entertaining. thanks yall
Thank you.
One controller can run two hub motors, Fabulous ebikes like the avoc to it, and with huge batteries.
Nothing to do with the batteries - it's the method of feedback that's employed (if at all0
Really useful video, Thanks
My pleasure. Happy pedaling.
@@richard_wenner Have you thought about enabling regen on the controller? Normally there is a solder point on the PCB and one of the brake levers will activate regen with light pressing. I think you have to beef up the way the axle is secured in the fork dropouts because of the extra force but presumably not an issue on the rear.
@@bonzobanana1 Yes, initially wanted 'regen' but the consensus appeared to be that the losses due to wind resistance were so high that the advantage of regen was trivial by comparison and not worth the additional complexity. I'd need to open a controller to investigate this further. My frame is aluminium and expect it to fail at some point - hopefully not at speed. (Reg in F1 and the new local trains is a really interesting topic - particularly when the batteries are almost full).
@@richard_wenner Yeah I think its 3 to 5% or something you can get back but I guess if you only use the power for going up hills and use your own leg power for the flats and downhills you can probably significantly extend the range of the bike using regen. More importantly you can significantly extend the life of your brakes using regen. I guess if you rely pretty much totally on the battery to propel the bike regen is insignificant but if you put a lot of input yourself then its a big deal. I'm planning to look into it because I'm going to try cycling unassisted as much as possible even with a direct drive hub, maybe I could even enable regen on the flats and not just downhill, I'm sort of going to try to even the effort needed for most roads, uphill I have to work of course with the hub motor on, on the flats I have to work with the small amount of hub turning resistance and downhill I will still pedal in order to create regen at the maximum level. This will give me the maximum range and workout too but the workout will never be excessive whatever I'm doing.
I'm heavier than you I think and just went with an oversized high tensile steel mountain bike frame, they are built like tanks and if they fail you get plenty of warnings so ideal for heavier riders. This sort of thing.
i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/JYgAAOSwCXxZrYp4/$_86.JPG
@@bonzobanana1 Years ago we did try to make a pneumatic braking system - using oversized steel tubes in the frame as the reservoir. Not the best use of my younger hours.
m
Most informative and pleasant video I've seen in a while. Good luck with subscriptions and views.
Thank you.
Your a genius thank you for your time and effort
Well thanks too - sorry for the delay in replying. I've only just discovered this huge back log.
best video! Very thorough and interesting! I am also thinking to adding another 1000w to my bike to make a 2000w bike with 2 batteries instead of one.
I got each kit for 666cad so for around 1300 and 2 52v 13ah batteries, I am interested to see the results!
Take care - these devices can develop into wonderful, but unintended, welding kits.
Ensure a solid 0v/GND across everything. Avoid floating. Finally - why use two separate batteries? A solid diode bridge would balance the whole system safely. Good luck!
Sounds just like Rick Wakeman - thanks for the upload. Interesting.
Rick Wakeman? Some sa Jeremy Clarkson but I can't see/hear that either. :)
great video! i bought the rear wheel kit and thinking of adding another motor at the front, is it worht it? i dont usualy climb uphill. thx
It worked for me :)
Very useful information! Thank you
Thank you.
I'm going about it the other way Dual Motors .Yes But, It's Rear Hub Drive Controlled and adding a Front Motor . Axle is smaller on Friont ... hmmm. Maybe just add a Side Car with the Motor and Extra Battery and modules to it ..hmmm
Like your thinking. I purchased a goods trailer from Holland for entirely that purpose. Let me know how you get on :)
Really great stuff man. Thanks
Thank you.
Hi Richard. I have a scooter with dual motors, there is a button that controls whether I choose to use one motor or dual motor. The scooter was taken to a repair man to change a burnt controller, but ever since the button no longer switches between one motor or dual it is stuck on dual. How do i set up the wires on the button so that i'm able to select to run on one motor or two? Your help is appreciated
Ziad, Sorry for the delay in replying. I've only just discovered a huge back log of these things. I'm afraid that without more information. Can't you go back to the guy and run over his children until he provides a satisfactory repair?
simply brilliant!
Thank you. :)
I wanna see the trike conversion
Yes so do I I've been diverted into a tadpole trike recumbent version using 20mm square sections for the frame - I've had to build custom wheels to accommodate a larger bearing size.
Thanks richard. Clear diagrams without a load of waffle (for a change) Presumably I can do the same with the pedelec sensor as with the throttle i.e. just split the output wire to both controlers.
If I want to add a second battery later, I guess all I need to do is put a link wire across the negative (0v) terminals of both batteries to sync the voltage potentials. Or am I an idiot?
Do I normally waffle then? I can't think of a reason why the pedelecs can't be shared - so long as you take note of the possible polarity problems. The inputs may be single ended. Measure the voltage at each disconnected input first. Connecting two similarly charged batteries is okay - they will balance - so long as they are of the same specification. Try connecting them when they are on low charge and then charge the pair together. A better method would be to couple them using large diodes in a bridge.
I connected the cables as the diagram says, but unfortunately the 2 motors are not synchronized, what did I do wrong?
When you say not synchronised - what do you mean exactly? In this set up as you twist the throttle both wheels should turn. The only 'joint' setting would be their rotation rate.
I did this with the same eBay voilmart hubs but I connected all the wires lol now I just have two throttles wish I saw this video a week ago
And I wish I had seen this reply sooner - to say thank you!
Has anyone tried installing another ebike motor, or any geared motor, on one of the wheels but wired as a generator? I am planning on doing this unless it turns out the throughput charge won't offset the extra weight and friction created.
Woke up this am with a possible solution if a secondary motor is used as a generator - perhaps on the other wheel. An electronic circuit that would pulse or somehow regulate the load (charging the battery). But maybe it would be the same amount of friction? Or a centrifugal clutch of some sort? Am I changing the subject? Is that OK?
mmm your best route would be to used the second generator as a breaking system although I sceptical as to whether its worth it.
Hello. Your video it really great. But please tell me if i have two controllers but there is the option of three speed witch. How do i connect the wires ? do you think i can use one switch wit three speed option to connect two controllers together ? or i need to have a second switch ? an connect them separately ? thank you for your help an answer.
Sorry for the delay in replying. I've only just found this massive pile in my inbox. Sorry too for the poor answer. I'd have to see the spec for the controllers to make any serious comment.
Superb instruction..
Thank you. Good luck -stay safe.
One of the best explanations, very thankful, i would like to ask one tech question, you mention that is not possible to run two motor with one controller, I have a project where I have 8 motors to be controlled, you think there will be a brushless motor configuration that can be tweaked to allow one single controller? Regenerative brake will be a plus, rotation synchronization may be penalized but not speed.
Wow - you are not asking for much! Before I answer - how are your eight motors configured?
hey thanks for the info great video and great explaining
Cheers :)
Goodman thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
What did you do whit the throttle connection and display connection these are 2 bundels a throttle bundel 3cabels and a display bundel 5 cabels ?
It's not clear as the wires are white/grey (sorry) see 6:19 in HD - that should be clear?
epic vid mate thanks for the info
Cheers. Happy cycling!
Try out LiFePO4 based batteries (lithium-iron phosphate)
The LiFePO4 cells aren't as power dense or weight efficient as lithium-ion or lithium-polymer cells, but allows a much smaller battery while still being able to deliver stable voltage (3C continuous discharge rate!) Those things can start cars!
I like to live with a bomb between my legs :)
very nice and well explained, I am working on a similar project and was wondering if a hoverboard controller was used. they are designed to handle two motors at the same time and they are cheap to buy second hand. let me know your thoughts
The difference is that the phasing of the motors on a hover board do not matter - blade positioning between the two is irrelevant whereas the feedback from each motor on a bike varies with size of wheel and differential distance travelled.
@@richard_wenner that is actually correct, thanks for your answer 😊
@@samithawaba895 please let us know how you get on - I'm currently working on an e-kayak
Hi Richard, you explain that you gained torque and not top speed which is logical. Were you tempted to go for a mid-mount motor to allow your gears to provide torque gain at lower road speed ? You also mention building a trike which is something I have also considered. This can perhaps most easily be achieved by re=purposing hoverboard components with its 2x 350w motors and controller - the latter having various firmware hacks to permit this and other uses of the hoverboard electrics/electronics.
Hi Rhian. Welcome to my rabbit hole. I began initially from first principles doing all of the homework* but was then diverted as I did a quick impromptu search through e-bay. There was Roland selling this bike. 45 minutes left to the of the sale and he was less than 30 miles away. I assumed that this was a message from the e-gods and snaffled it up. This was a quick and dirty route and I had something to play with inside 12 hours. The rest of this journey is a little like the Irish joke where the answer was "If I was going there I would not start from here.". :) I would not advise a motor (anywhere) driving a conventional gear cassette. Therein many loading and mechanical problems lie. The brilliant thing about electrical motors is that they have a huge torque at low speed ( lancet.mit.edu/motors/motors3.html#tscurve ). My gearing issue was at the other end where I would like to pedal at high speed (I really do need the exercise) and it would help with enormously with range. Pot holes and the need to carry loads securely lead me to favour trikes. There is a massive amount of research and money going into motor design and production at the moment. We are spoilt with choice for the components around at the moment. I've designed microprocessor designed wheelchairs (with 5 motors) in the past but it would be a fools errand not to use the dirt cheap controllers coming in from the far east I'm afraid.
THANK YOU SOOOOOOOO MUCH!
Thanks OOOOOOKKKKKKKKKAAAAYYYY Have a good 2021
Hi Richard, Why the braking regenerative is not working. And i have seen that in the market are selling packets with four brushless dc motors (hubs motos). Do you think that they apply the same concept?. Saludos desde México.
Hi Saul. I always wanted to implement regenerative braking (in fact looked at trying to compress a gas in the frame as a power storage mechanism) BUT the cost and complications involved in trying to recover the minimal amount of energy (even with a fat git like me) is just really not worth the effort. Others may differ in their views of course.
Very interesting, & well presented/explained, thanks. Trike? I have a friend who is thinking that way. My main thought is, what do you do if it breaks down? Have you thought how you'd push it? Bloody awkward, I think... 👍
Thank you. 3 Wheeler break down? You can always pedal. ruclips.net/video/tuk5EhV0hSU/видео.htmlsi=EZgtxXAVcKOR1gLv but I don't
ruclips.net/video/CnJ1kYMNbxs/видео.htmlsi=XwHcQW2aiozYMOD2
Turned out to be a good 2 seater too! :)
I bet you did this to get up the hill to the Cock of Tupsley 🤣🤣🤣
Thinking of something similar living atop Aylestone hill having just bought a used Model T Momentum e bike. It's lovely and smooth and plenty powerful around town but my 15stone could do with a bit more umph getting to Folly lane.
Great vid, mate
Perhaps we will meet some time?
Watched this video prior to planning my own ebike conversion (great video, thanks!) and spotted this comment. I'm originally from Hereford and know these hills well...!
so how is it legal unless you have just registered it as a moped with all the legal requirments?
It is not (for use on UK roads). I'm working on an acceptable route to legality.
Awesome video! Quick question, do the hall sensors have to match the order of the phase wire? I’m trying to use a different controller and when I wire everything up I can get the motor to spin correctly however when I try to ride it under load it doesn’t move. If I run the motor sensor less it works fine except for the initial hit of the throttle which cause the motor to stutter. I’ve tried many combinations of moving the phase wires around but I always matched the hall sensor to whatever order the phase wire where. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Are you trying to drive 2 motors from a single 3 phase hall sensor. I don't quite understand your set up.
@@richard_wenner no just a single motor to a vesc. For my motor the hall sensors are labeled A= green B= yellow C= blue, I also have a green, yellow and blue phase wire, so what I am asking is if I connect the phase wires let’s say in green, yellow, blue order should my hall sensor match that connection on the controller or can it be different
I'm very new to ebikes. If you have 10 seconds I have a quick question
sir; if someone was running 2 hub motors and their combined max current
from the controllers was 60 amps, and you used a battery with 50amp BMS
(52v 20ah), what would happen? If you ran WOT you may trip the BMS of
the battery and it come back on after a few seconds? Or something worse?
Thank you!
Mike of course I have 10 seconds to spare - it's great learning new things. I'm sorry that I've only just seen your posing and apologise for the delay in getting back to you. (and I Do like the sir bit). The next part of your question ' if someone was running' makes it sound as if you are asking for a friend being too embarrassed to ask for yourself but I digress. I had a quick look at the log on my bike that has two 1.5k hubs and they peak at a combined 28A going up hill with the throttle full open. This causes the batteries to warm up - even though they are fairly well ventilated on a reasonable heat sink. Temperature alone will effect the performance of the batteries. At the end of a long run where the battery voltages are falling I've experienced a form of motor 'hunting' as a warning of low power. BMS should control over and under voltage conditions. Either way the lifetime of the batteries are maximised by maintaining them between 20% and 80% limits. Do try to maintain these limits, where possible. I hope this answers your question.
I'm working out the details on a recumbent quad that I am planning on having 4 1000watt hub motors. I guess I will need 4 controllers and a heap of battery power to make it all work. Do you have any advice?
Hi Dave. Like the project - my first thought is safety as recumbents tend to be low and difficult to see. Having said that you could construct a bedstead - with all of the heavy batteries very low down - similar to car chassis design. Four separate controllers with their own individual feedback but combined control is easier - the costs and maintenance of many common components appears to be cheap these days. Would be interesting to see if there were any issues with differential skew. Pls keep me posted.
I'm trying to understand your schematic as it would apply to my 2wd build. I'm using 2 slightly different systems. My rear hub has a 35mm stator with an LCD screen ESC setup, and the front is a much simpler system w/a smaller 28mm stator hub and an ESC w/no screen. It has a 3 led power display thumb throttle instead of full twist, but it seems with all the same colour wires and functions as in your video. I'm using a combo lcd display+throttle for the rear system, and paralleling the throttle signal wires as per your instructions, but the front ESC needs to be switched on with the yellow wire integrated into the front systems throttle that I'm now not using. To what wire do I short the front ESC's yellow wire in order to duplicate the throttle on/off switch? The brown?
Could you present a full diagram please? I really would not want to destroy your system.
@@richard_wenner No you wouldn't do that, it's all basically done and hooked up, I just need to power the front ESC without it's throttle with the red on off switch. I just need to know how to connect the yellow wire to activate the ESC so it can accept the paralleled (white) signal wire of the other ESC's throttle. I'm not sure which wire to short it to
@@ABritInNY Well good luck with your choice - hope all goes well :)
@@richard_wenner didn't want to risk anything on the uncertainty, so I just ended up opening the 3 led throttle to take a look, (the hall sensor on the throttle part is anyway broken. It seems the switch is just a latching SPST that shorts the yellow and brown wires when latched. So I'll just make a matching 6 pin jst connector for it that shorts the 2 when plugged in, that should work to enable the ESC to power on and allow my 2wd signal wire parallel setup to work. Thanks for your replies Mate and have a nice weekend.
Would you recommend that the two hub motors be of the same make and model or can they be different models and wattage?
Is it possible to have one of them be a smaller controller when linking?
It is just easier if the two are the same.
Can i switch motors between bike and scooter
I don't see any reason why not. I would not put a small scooter motor on a big bike or a large bike motor on a small scooter. What did you have in mind?
Hi, can one PAS sensor be conected to 2 controllers? How to wire?
yes, just splice together the wires correctly
True but do not connect the two positive terminals - just one +ve both signal and both ground.
Can you do the same with brushed motor controllers? Using only white and black from throttle?
I would have thought so yes.
very Interesting build. I am building a two 500w hub from voliamart with each hub powered by its own controller and battery. I have two throttle and connected the signal wire from each throttle to each other. When I press one of the throttle I both wheel spins and bike gets upto about 35km/h but when I press both throttle at the same time, there is a boost in power and the bike gets upto about 45km/h. I am wondering if you have any idea to get the whole power just using a single throttle, rather than using two throttle. Thanks
Try disconnecting one throttle and see what happens. I've a feeling you will have better control that way - but do check the polarity of the throttle connections - as mentioned in the video.
ie connect one throttle to BOTH controllers - checking polarity.
Just tried to connect both black, both signal white and both yellow switch wire to each other and the one single throttle powers both motor like a treat. you are a genius, saved me a lot of headache. thanks
When I did this it keeps blowing out my e bike battery fuse. How do I stop my fuse from blowing out?
Replace the fuse with a nail? Try disconnecting the two blue wires - these have a polarity but it is not shown. Let me know.
How could I do this with a second battery powering the second motor instead of using one battery for both motors?
I have an electric scooter with a single 500W hub motor and a 48v battery. Id like to add a second motor to it from another scooter. The second scooter has a 350W hub motor and a 36v battery.
Any chance its possible to upgrade my 500W scooter (48v batt) with the second 350W hub motor, the second controller as shown on this video but with an additional 36v battery all on the same throttle?
Measure the voltage that comes out of you throttle control on the 48v system. If it is 0 to 5v then there is little reason why the two systems should run from separate batteries. Ensure all -ve supplies are bonded together and +ve supplies separated. Also beware of the polarity of the brake leads. If you are not happy just down rate everything to 36v.
Hello
Can i ask if i run 2 yyk controllers rated at 80a each with my x2 60v hub motors (3500w each) to a 60v 50ah battery with a daly (BMS 100a)
Do i need to have a 200a BMS? Due double the controllers? Or is the 100a BMS still fine for the battery?
Thank you very much, nick
Sorry for the delay in replying. Basically the ah of your battery does not matter. It is simply a method of describing the total capacity of your battery. 100ah would take you twice the distance. The stated battery voltage for the motor is specified by the manufacturer and should only be exceeded if you require more performance and less life.
I don't really understand what you mean about the BMS but do be careful with batteries. They are quick release mechanism for potentially enormous amounts of stored energy. The name for a unit that releases vast energy in a very short time is 'a bomb'. So do please go carefully.
Richard I have two hub motor kits one one front one back both are the same size 1000w motors but they have different controllers niether one has much detail on it do I need toi use two idetical controllers? niether one has the same colour wires can you advise please
Mmmm Sorry for the delay in replying, Ian. The first thing to do - and this in my experience is NOT easy is to find the spec. for the controllers. My first concern would be fitting the break cut off connections. These generally tend to be shorted together when the break is applied. The only issue here is the polarity of the connections. As I say in this video the breaks are connected using blue wires and even thought the controllers were the same design - the two blue wires were fitted to their connectors a different way around. This is not surprising as the designer would not expect some 'eegit' to want to parallel up two controllers. It is like that one is ground so you could meter this out to confirm similar polarity. The only other important connection is the throttle input. These too can be inspected with just a simple multi-meter. If they are similar you only need to cross couple the ground connections and the variable control wire - which I believe is grey in my diagram. Note that you should only connect the positive from one of the controller. Do le me know how you get on and good luck.
Pros and cons with actual numbers would've been great...
Sorry I don't understand this.
@@richard_wenner statistics range, consumption, climbing ability and efficiency...
So this video shows us how to wire to make it dual motors right?
Yes, I had hoped that was clear from my explanation about the phasing of the motor drives (and the impossibility of doing so). This is 2 motors, two controllers, one battery and one twist grip. Hope this helps.
@@richard_wenner thanks bro.
So it's not worth it then? How was the distance testing, and how much do you think it really helped out?
Frumos
Mulțumesc
May I ask you if maybe its possible to make a reverse trike with 3 hub and 3 controller but only 1 throttle?
Yes, connect all 0v together (if you are running 3 batteries). Then connect the three throttle connections to a single throttle. (The throttle is only a variable resistor) BUT check the polarity of the throttle inputs to each controller - for the reason shown in the video. Please let me know how you get on.
@@richard_wenner thanks a lot for the reply, im planing to use only 1 big battery, but in the meantime im still trying to figure out whats the best frame, but again thanks for the reply
I'm thinking about using 2 batteries one to each controller to prevent early battery drain due to use of second motor but using one throttle and one display. Thoughts on this setup.
connect the negatives together to prevent any ground loop problems
Range fear eh? Keeps me awake at nights too but I prefer the minimum fuss method. I believe that it would be easier to employ some form of switching - draining the first before swapping over to the second. Hub motors are a bind when their power goes down. You will enter a kind of 'limp mode' on both batteries with your set up. One of the advantages of your method though would allow regenerative braking. Please let me know how you get on.
I'm using my stock rear hub and battery but I added two batteries for the front hub and controller and I never have any issues with voltage sag even at the and of rides the front motor still feels full of life
hay richard awsome vid but i have sw900 lcd do you know what wires i have to connect as it only has 5 red blue black green and yellow the controller your showing has 6 lol
I assume you mean this?
1. Data display:it shows the riding speed, a single mileage and cumulative mileage, riding time, power-assist gear, motor power and temperature, battery voltage and charge status, brake status and the used ambient temperature and other cycling parameters;
2. Intelligent power:a true reflection of the battery charge, real-time recording of the power consumption to ensure riding mileage;
3. Stalls setting:multi-gear switch and automatic save of the power-assist gear, and it can restore power-off stall state when turned on;
4. Parameter setting:with a number of user parameter setting functions, motor parameters, velocity measurement parameters, speed-limit parameters, power parameters, power-assist control parameters, the minimum controller voltage and maximum current parameters and other operating models for settings adjustment ;
5. Data view:Users can view historical driving data and clear accordingly, view single or cumulative riding time, riding mileage, maximum speed and average speed of single riding;
6. Vehicle boosting:With 6Km/h power-assisting functions, the boost logo flashes during boosting, and riders can use it when driving the vehicle and the vehicle driving is labor-saving and easy;
7. Cruise and constant speed: With the setting and display of the cruise, achieving to automatically maintain the vehicle speed, so that the vehicle drives at a constant speed;
8. Night driving:With the functions of LCD backlit display and headlight switch control, instrument backlighting and headlights can be turned on during driving at night;
9. Password setting:With three-bit of power-on password setting;
10. Automatically prompt: For the appeared failure of the vehicle, it can prompt different fault codes for easy inspection and maintenance of vehicle. With a temperature display for motor operation and it is to achieve the ultra-temperature alarm and motor protection;
11. Use five-line of digital communication, the instrument has good compatibility and interchangeability, different instruments can be conducted the data exchanges and parameters copy directly;
12. Host part and operation buttons of the meter use sub-structure design, making the operation to be more reasonable and convenient;
13. Supply voltage of 24V/36V/48V can be automatically identified and compatible;
14. Black housing
I would not dare to suggest as it appears to have so many capabilities that must be derived from other sources. This is way outside the scope of this video (I don't even use PAS)
@@richard_wenner thank you for your reply Richard yes i totally agree to much info on so many wires etc so my plan A was one lcd but now i have moved to plan B lol and that is to have 2 lcd one for each controller was hoping to have one as this look more tidy lol but i have tested today and 1 lcd per controller works fine which is great in one way as i can change the parameter's for each controller etc thank you and i found you vid very informative thank you
@@smudgy34 Good luck. Let me know how you get on.
when will you try this on a trike?
Had hoped to have started this by now but family issues interrupted the flow I'm afraid.
Can you add a control switch to select rear, front or both hubs to be used? I think the manufactured dual hub bike do.. so prebuilt dual hub bikes have 1 or 2 controllers?
Not seen a dual hub version BUT they would have two run 2 controllers - because of the sync problem I explained in this video. Why do you wish to switch between 1 and 2 motors? I see no advantage in the complication (or dragging an unpowered motor along).
@@richard_wenner I plan to use my bike a little for hunting in the woods, I’m thinking having the front hub with give me better AWD over small obstacles like down trees etc.. there isn’t always a clear path
@@mdvandale I hope that you do not mind me saying but in my experience this kind of manipulation is unnecessarily complex, difficult to control (in the field - no pun intended) and ineffective. Good luck anyway.
@@richard_wenner so your saying the only way would be to purchase one already made with a 2 hub setup, I was hoping their was an upgrade path.
@@mdvandale I believe that what I was saying was - if you have dual hub drive now don't bother to split it into two single/one dual drive. It's not a Land Rover where you have the time and easy controls to switch between the two modes during cycling. The only time I have done this is with a 5 drive hospital wheelchair where the customer wanted to provide a short very high power mode, in case the wheelchair was stuck before a large kerb.
like, subscribe, bell button, all. I very much enjoyed this and I'm looking forward to more.
Thank you Working on a energy monitoring scheme at the moment.
Hi Richard,
What a great video, well done!
Very informative, well presented, and easy to follow.
I had two Voillamart hub motor kits but didn't know how to wire it with one controller and ended up ruining the throttle and one controller. After watching your video, I was able to successfully wire the two controllers with one throttle.
I can't thank you enough. Finally a clear, concise and extremely helpful video.
Is it possible to wire up two Voillamart controllers with the LCD meter with one throttle?
Thank you
You could use a multipole switch or relay to flip between the required connections I suppose but take care. What is it that you expect to get back?
Hi Richard,
I was hoping to connect two controllers and one LCD display and one throttle. The reason being; battery level, speed, distance traveled.
I know the Voillamrt controllers with LCD display have different wiring, and was hoping to avoid two separate displays and two separate throttles.
I don't know if this is possible.
Thank you for your response.
@@dennisfilek5652 Have you the full connection details of the units you are using?
Hi Richard,
These controllers have the usual wiring for the motor, hall sensors, brakes, etc. They also include red, black, and green for the throttle , red, blue, black,green, and yellow for the display with on/off switch.
@@dennisfilek5652 So no description of the function of the wires then?
Hi. I already have rear motor kit with s830 lcd display and I want to install another motor in front. How can I connect the lcd to the front motor controller assuming both controllers are the same? I always changing mode/PAS level.
I doubt the details you see on the S830 differ - if you were using front/or back motors. The only thing you really need to do is connect the throttle to the second controller and then the other motor - let everything else 'freewheel'.
@@richard_wenner the S830 has 5 wire, red for battery voltage, black for ground, blue for Lock, then green and yellow for control.
If i do just parallel connections for the throttle signal ang ground only, I don't have control for the PAS level? The front will just do full power right?
@@richard_wenner two controllers (identical) to one LCD display is what I'm looking for. Is it possible? Like making the controller display wires parallel to each other then connect it to the lcd display.
@@shadoworkz123 The throttle should control the power. It should assist with power not encumbered by the PAS - as dar as I can ascertain.
@@shadoworkz123 No I can't see what you achieve by trying to monitor the second drive.
Nice
Thanks. I love riding it.
I wanna make a dual hub motor 1500w each what kind of 🔋 power will i need for both motors a single battery ?anybody?
Well 1500w (run in parallel - as per this video).
Each motor will have a specification that will sit on a power current graph with a 1.5k and specify technical limits - based upon their design.
Your controller will also have limitations. Setting these aside you could draw the power graph where P=I* V Points on this line would suggest that were you to use a
1000V battery - it would only need to supply 1.5 Amps
a 500V battery 3 amps
a 100 V battery 15 Amps
a 50 V battery 30 Amps note the practicality of this and the size of cable required (and which values e-cars employ).
Your selection would more likely be made from the usual selection of available batteries assembled for e-bike use.
I could now continue this stupidity by suggesting that you could use 33 AA standard battery cells but this leads to the range you want to achieve. Range is related to the total capacity of your battery.
With the current / voltage sorted see total capacity ruclips.net/video/oDItxQ-v8KI/видео.html I hope that this helps. :)
Will 2 hubs motor make your bike. Faster? There’s someone who thinks he will go faster with dual hub motors’ worse he has a back hub motor, even worse he thinks a Through axle will work with the back hub motor.
After I told him it’s impossible…and front hub motors, and rear hub motors are different’ the back hub is wider than a front motor.
Apparently he wants to use a 5000w motor with a 1500w motor, and thinks he’s gonna go faster’ he fails to understand the laws of Physics’
Trying to fit a rear hub motor on a axle Through fork is insane, and next to near impossible to do’ major fabrication would need to be done…if he uses a regular fork, and a front hub will be the easier route…he wants to do it the impossible way’ and for me to pull a Miracle out of my ass’ and weld him a wider fork, with a mig Welder
Without the proper equipment to weld Aluminum’ he fails to Understand the laws of physics, and how things work.
He thinks using 1500w and 5000w with separate 150amp speed controllers, and 2 150amp batteries = 20,000 Kilo watts. Believing this will makes him go twice as fast’ he fails to understand the laws of Physics’
He wants to put all this on a BMX bike….not designed to support that much weight…trying to put 2 heavy 72v
46AH batteries on this BMX bike’ he fails to not understand the laws of physics’ this is very dangerous! And insane! He wants to go over a Hundred miles per hour on this small bike’ maybe he wants to win a Darwin Award? He might win one! His vision is not that great, and wears glasses.
This is a Recipe for total disaster!
Keep us informed pls.
if I had a million dollars for every time you said "he fails to not understand the laws of physics’" i'd have a couple of house now!
?
?!
Wow I don't know why people make videos and then provide a horrible explanation on how they're doing. S
I swear the internet is getting more and more useless
Yea yea!
Most eritateing vedio I ever seen
most irritating comment i have ever seen
Come on Gino - don't be unkind. :) This is how trolling begins.
I always think that a bad reaction is better than no reaction at all.
I really don’t understand why you are sticking with such a low ridiculously outdated and poorly equipped bike for this conversion experiment.
Not having a rear brake and not having the room to fit one makes the design of your chosen bike totally unsuitable for a powered bike.
Why not spend a couple of hundred quid on a disc brake mountain bike that has the ability to stop safely and the strength to handle all the added weight ? It baffles me when I see old bikes with caliper brakes and steel rims being used for e bike conversions. Going 30mph + on a bike with tiny brake pads is just crazy and inconsiderate.
I did like your professional approach to the video and despite it being on a relatively boring subject I managed to watch till the end. Mostly to see if the bike I saw was really the bike being talked about. It is not a nice bike and is the sort of thing I see abandoned outside train stations all the time. Do yourself a favour and treat yourself to a proper set of wheels
You are correct in every particular. What you have not yet seen is all of my recent developments with disk brakes and carbon fibre. All the current effort has gone into 3 wheeled recumbents that I hope you may find a little more to your liking.
Yes, you could spend thousands of dollars on an eBike ruclips.net/user/postUgkxUiL0GnyDjP32RJdd660sP8mZk4CRLTCJ and get something much higher quality. However, if you're looking for a basic model to try out eBiking this is a great choice. The assembly is easy as far as bikes go (took about an hour for me to do, I'm not an expert). All tools needed are included. I added the plastic mud guards you see and a more comfortable seat. The other reviews are correct that you're probably going to want a better seat (Giddy Up! Bike Seat is what I got - super comfortable). The battery easily handles a 2-4 hour ride if you add some of your own pedal power. I haven't even gotten it up to top speed yet - it is very fast. Components are not top of the line, but decent for the price and work just fine. It works great on dirt roads and singletrack and pavement although too heavy to do tricks or any serious technical mountain biking. I'm looking forward to using it a lot over the summer. Tons of fun!
I ride it with a smile on my face. Have just completed a 3 wheeled recumbent - being sprayed now.