Sexualization in Fighting Games
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
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Juri on the Thumbnail by the godlike REIQ: / reiq
Fighting game publishers and developers have long recognized the power of jiggling spheres, but what secrets do these artifacts hold? What power do they truly possess? In this digital moving picture, we decided to dive deep into the pillowy depths of this topic, and try to find an answer to the age-old question of “who cares?”.
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I know the topic can usually give rise to kneejerk reactions, but let’s try to keep things civil. Also, I wanted to ask you one deeply serious, and very important question. Which franchise has the most attractive cast?
Has to be between KoF and DoA, I'd go with the former. Almost every single character is extremely attractive except for like Choi and Chin.
It's only been 20 mins and so many people are proving ur point at the end of the video 😂
Anything outside the US it seems 😅
Dead Or Alive Free. You can literally compare graphics for every DOA title to any of its contemporaries at the time and see for yourself. The jump in graphics from DOA1 to DOA2 put SEGA's Virtua Fighter to shame considering it was THEIR own hardware that TECMO was using for DOA
Tekken and DOA no contest.
" I love the kinda woman that could just kick my ass"
.Spike spiegel
I cannot hear this quote anymore without hearing the meme version.
Bro is literally me fr
"i love the kind of woman that actually just kill me. You know, when i left the house today i was thinking "damn, i really hope some hot chick paints my brains all over some fuken hallway" and here we are"
-Spike Spiegel- Gianni Matragrano
Hell yeah
I love the kind of woman that will actually just kill me
I think NRS went to the opposite spectrum of sex sales. Most of the dudes are hot. Have you seen Omni-Man's booty?
have you seen mileena's booty in mk1 and thge other girls in the game or are you just looking at Omni-Man's
@@TheDarioushurtHave you seen the girls in MK before Sweet Baby Inc got a hold of NRS? Stop it.
There is no company stupidier than NRS.
Yes they did exactly like you said. The problem is their player base 99% male
Just look at MK11, where half of the male roster has skins where it's just some shorts and nothing else.
@@intellectic9155
no i dont think you have you sound like a idiot and tell me how did your Sweet Baby Inc boogyman get ahold of them and do?
files.catbox.moe/x03ii7.jpg
"And no, we're not talking about Voldo" aaaaand you lost me💀
Exploding guts and gore in MK is ok but women showing some skin is where they draw the line?! Sure that makes sense
Ed boom want to bring it back revealing skin MK9 outfit.
The logic can be that exploding guts and gore are not something your ordinary consumer has to deal with too often and therefore showing it on screen does not cause significant concern
@@stravvman More like I think NRS just got afraid of being offensive, even if them (as Midway) being deliberately offensive is what made Mortal Kombat popular in the first place. Old Mortal Kombat was not just violent, it also had sexualized character designs which remained until MK9.
The thing that changed is that ultra-violence just does not cause the same moral panic as it did in the 90s, hence NRS is not afraid of filling their game with it.
Sexualization on the other hand causes moral panic just as much today as it did in the 90s (if not more so), so now they are afraid of featuring it.
The main thing I think changed is who gets offended. In the 90s, it was mostly people with strong christian values. Now it tends to be people who lean pretty far to the left.
For the millionth time, yes. It's always been like this. People can die be beaten up and be shot but sex? No. Welcome to conservative America.
I don't have a problem with Blood nor with sexualized characters. But i do think NR did a good effort with MK11 and MK 1 in the art design. The bodies of the fighters still athletic and muscular as It should be for Martial artists but the costume design now Is More focused in expressing character beyond sexuality. This gives the characters More deep without a single dialogue.
10:00 thru 10:48 Best take here.
-West- USA is chill with violence (to a degree) while mostly prudish about sex.
-East- Japan is chill with sex (to a degree) while mostly prudish about violence
West: Lets be violent for no reason while looking generic and ugly taking drugs with booze!
East: Lets be violent in a stylish and creative purpose while embracing sexuality to the max!
West is chill with violence just to a degree? MK fatalities are more gruesome than any war we’d see in the real world
@@Amaling Yes. To a degree. Otherwise MK would be rated T for teen.
I'm not convinced that Eastern countries are OK about sex on screen. Are the any non-Japanese examples of this?
If by "West" you mean "USA", then yes.
One sentence explained it to me so well.
"In fighting games the things you are staring at 100% of the time are the characters, Make your players WANT to stare at them."
I think the art on the thumbnail is one of Reiq's Juri pieces, he sometimes does an anatomy and gesture study stream their pretty fun and relaxing drawing along and asking questions on how to improve your drawings.
Reiq is the goat, such a talented and humble guy
Sexualization in fighting games is great
So many iconic and fan favourite characters got created because of that, Mileena, Nina Williams, Mai Shiranui, Kasumi, Felicia etc.
It’s great as long as it’s done appropriately
You forgot the best girl of all. Tina Armstrong
@@dnkndonutts8662 Totally agree, the sexier the better. That's the only appropriate way to sexualize fighting games. Cover up just enough to make you wonder, but reveal just enough to let you imagine.
Funny thing is people forget sexualization in fighting games goes both ways. You’ve got EXTREMELY attractive and oversexed dudes like Ken, Terry and Andy Bogard, Geese Howard, Jacky Bryant, practically every DOA guy, Liu Kang, Jax, Jago, Miguel and Eddy from Tekken along with Jin and Kazuya, and about a billion other examples that people ignore all the time.
Morrigan Nina Reina juri Asuka Lili jun
I’ll let it be known now. I’m watching this for the wrong reasons.
Or the right reasons. Tomatoe, Tomato…😉
hello my fellow Ivy Valentine wanka
Sex sells and people buy it. If people dont like it, then dont buy it. I like it.
The same games have more things beyond sex.
So some buy it for that, others like you for sex the ONLY people who b1t(hing and moaning are a small groups who want to ruin everything fun for everyone in order to feel better about themselves who mind you also would NEVER buy the games they try to ruin.
I Also agree with your solution as well, if they don't like it, don't buy it and not what they're trying to do
Basedest Comment here
Based comment.
I always thought that poeples complaining about sexualisation/sex appeal was dumb. All that compagnies have to do is make outfit for both spectrum. Dont like sexy stuff? pick the fully clothed outfit and vice versa...I dont get why they just cant do both...in a era where every character have 10 different outfits...
@@Extasei Why would devs make outfits for every single weirdo on the internet? It takes manhours which could go into something more useful.
"Oh nooo a female character in a videogame has a few too much #FFCEB4 pixels, that's so insensitive"
*rips the intestines out of someone and turns them into a god damn soccer ball before kicking it full volley through thier torso in mortal kombat*
American standards in a nutshell 😂
Well, you yourself showed why no one takes the latter seriously
hmmmm it almost like the gore is essentially to mortal kombat its what made the game stand out
@@chaserseven2886You are totally right my friend, gore is the defining feature/graphical choice behind MK and thus gives it it's right of existence.
Now just riddle me this my friend...
how does one defining choice of graphics in a game makes you, the consumer, a horny deadbeat coomer, while the other one does not make you a saddistic psychopath in the eyes of society?
How can we allow mass dismemberment and crimes that would require a whole geneva convention to adress but draw the line at some pixelated anime tiddies?
Way to miss the point.
USA is totally weird about this kind of stuff. Its fine to have the most brutal video games but god forbid there is some titttie to see and everybody gets a nervousbreakdown somehow.
As one of the few women in the comments section, I like hot ladies too. Hot guys as well because that is true equality. May or may not be the reason why I played SF6, lol.
I honestly would love to hear more woman, who are actually playing the games, talk about it. usually its women who dont play fighting games or games at all who talk about the topic. And i think if we get sexy females in our games, we should also get sexy dudes.
Exactly I'm all for both side to be sexualised, I'm always finding it funny when I see a male with just a loin kit and I would use him for the laugh all the time. Anyway, I dont get why games dont add a sort of ''sexualisation'' option in games just like the ''blood'' or ''gore'' option...So if someone hate it just turn it off so that any sexualised outfit doesnt appear. These compagnies could EASILY satisfy all group of poeples and every tastes. But isntead they shit their pants and only bow to the prude/none-gamer demographic.
I’m a girl too but when I play fighting games, I care about the playstyle, personalities, and storyline. For sexualization, I find it unfair it’s used on one gender (Such as making women the target of sexualization). Yet again, it’s true that a part of it means expressing yourself. It’s balanced when all genders get fanservice as long as they’re 18 and up.
@@cailieisidro5758 Well, to be fair if your playerbase is 90% of males it's normal it's focus is on the female characters, it just make sense. But I'm all up for both side male or female....but it's logical to see it a bit more on one side. As for the 18+, I'm more about what the character look like rather a fictional age on a fictional character. Particularly on japanese games were they have that odd habits to make a 15 years old look like 30 and a 1000 years old like like 12. If you see what I mean.
@@Extasei I know the looks of the character is odd because just like what you said “A 15 year old can look like a 32 year old and someone who’s around a thousand looks like a 12 year old”, but the reason why I said 18 and up is because below that is of a minor. I know there’s teen characters who get sexualized but that’s so wrong, especially since the male fanbase would get very horny. Speaking of which, it’s the reason why I don’t like video game sexualization. From my comment yesterday, it’s the female wearing a fanservice outfit while males are a lot more covered. It’s that double standard where men get mad at woman lusting over hot guys when they can treat the female character about the same or even worse
Fantasy is a thing in every media, including video games.
If I was younger, I might disagree. But as an older lesbian, I simply don't care because its not real.
I dont mind the tits and other stuff because i like it. Its normal unless you are asexual.
However, i know video games are not real. Same as films, books, arts, and other media.
It is just a twisted world from the real world.
To be honest, i dont care about the criticism. I like my women to be sexy. Yes, im werid.
No, you're not weird, there's nothing weird about liking sexy women, feeling weird because you love sex and sex appeal is just remnants of puritanism that is unique to American culture.
You're not weird, but media is still a representation (be it direct or not, conscious or unconscious) of our anxieties, wishes, fears etc etc as either a group or individuals
Liking hot women, with all the contradictions implied, is cultural.
Balanced take, I do hope that devs get to make whatever they want to make first and foremost, regardless of which way they take the designs. Games are art, and art is best when it comes from the heart ❤
and balls
@@Crystal-fm7fpand balls
When I was a kid my Mom tried to play XMEN VS Street Fighter once. The character she liked to use was Storm. She was surprisingly good at using her and I'm pretty sure Storm was Mom's favorite because a black woman with superpowers can appeal to black women in general. I know there's a difference between what Storm was wearing and DOA, but you can't deny that strong, attractive women in a video game where there's some type of violence is gonna appeal to women who like to play videogames. And I think today most people who complain about over sexualization either bend the knee or probably don't play videogames at all.
So hot half naked ripped and muscular men is fine and doesn't play into women's sexual fantasy (see exhibit a hot ryu) but a girl in a bikini is wrong? Big double standard here. Both are fine it's just a game, it's not like we're teaching it to kids
Sexualization in Fighting Games is a good feature. No doubt.
7:20 I play for the T&A. Idgaf who knows.
I'm not about to pretend I don't like seeing bouncing tiddies and thicc rumps while playing a game. Ofc I do, and so do you. Ya, even you who is rolling their eyes right now reading this. Yep, you too.
I play for the "culture" as well, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. If people want to live in denial of sexuality, a natural aspect of humanity, that's their problem. We didn't get to 8 billion people on this planet by NOT liking sex.
I don't have anything against for characters to be sexy but I dislike if it's too over the top. I understand that it may not be an issue to some. Who am I to judge?
@@kadinnui2282 Well, in all seriousness, I mean, I like skimpy outfits, and attractive characters. I honestly have zero use for nudity, or borderline nudity.
At least, that's where I sit. I never touch nude mods or anything, and that's just the downright truth. I find it idiot to be playing a game, with a character that's wearing nothing.
Personally I have no problems with sexualization or violence but I have big problems with anyone who wants to try to censor an art form, be it cinema, literature, music or video games. I hope this new obscurantism ends soon
I don’t mind a bit of sexualisation in fighting games, what bothers me is when the community forces it.
Like people will put their screen name as “Juri Footjob” or whatever and I don’t know it just feels a bit vulgar
There are so many ways you can express this shit, I don’t get why it has to also be in fighting games above and beyond them having attractive characters
Mods as well, when the devs deliberately design them not to wear revealing clothing, or sometimes even underage characters like Lilli on Tekken and a really popular mod will be
“Bikini lilli with jiggle physics”
I just think at that point watch porn, there’s even animated porn. I’m not saying don’t be horny, but there’s SO many outlets I really don’t get the mindset of seeing something non sexual or even only like pg sexual and having to make it as sordid as possible, are you playing with 1 hand? I don’t get it.
People are degenerates I love sexy in stuff women but you make a point
the saddest part is these are adult men and women thirsting over pixels like cmon lol
Speaking of Lili being underage... Look at Amy and Talim from SC6, both are supposed to be 15, yet... Well, they don't reveal too much, but still. It's just boring asf imo.
@@terry.1428here's a fun fact for ya: the Aphrodite of Knidos, an ancient Greek statue, was one of the first lifesize female nudes in Greek history. Turns out, men were so horny for it that there are documented incidents of at least one person breaking into the temple in which it was housed and, uhhh, "staining" it with his...y'know. Manly stuff.
People have always been degenerate. Thirsting over pixels now isn't that different from thirsting over statues 2500 years ago. It's still maidenless behavior, but it's nothing new.
It's worse with lili considering in lore she's meant to be like 17 or something? So all of the adult fans lusting over her is fucking weird
This was a good essay. Personally I welcomed when Mortal Kombat X's character designs struck a healthy balance between fanservice and generally looking like something someone might wear to a fight. 11's costumes got criticized for being prudish, but there are a lot of options there (a lot more so than in the new Mortal Kombat 1 in my estimation) if you are willing to unlock them. A lot of the revealing outfits for characters like Jade are still present; they're just not available right away, and you can't just spend disproportionate amounts of money to immediately unlock them as with the newer Dead or Alive fighting games. Around the time Ninja Gaiden II (Xbox 360) came out, a girl who's been one of my best friends since before that time pointed out that it's not impossible or mutually exclusive for a female character to be portrayed attractively, even sexually, and for her to still have agency and a story of her own, so there's no reason for me to believe (as I did at the time, long ago) that it's inherently unflattering for a woman to be dressed like that in a game (now for a girl like Rikku from Final Fantasy, or Ann from Persona 5, I think it's really creepy because of her age, and the latter brings this up multiple times in the game; even Skullgirls, whose female character designs tended to be both sexualized and macabre at the same time, avoided this for its child characters).
You also touched on some good points about how games are (and, especially, WERE) marketed. The Tomb Raider games never really sexualized Lara Croft, but the marketing and especially the urban legends (e.g., "nude codes") tended to do so. If you go back and look at how games tended to be marketed around the turn of the century, it could often be a lot more male-centric and a lot more crass (remember PC Accelerator magazine?) than I think it is now, and I think the controversy not so much over fighting games but more over games like the PS2 Grand Theft Auto titles started moving the industry toward something that was more mainstream-approachable, particularly a few years later when Call of Duty 4 and then Angry Birds and FarmVille blew up, bringing gaming to even more audiences.
You also brought up cultural differences in acceptance of visibility of graphic violence versus visibility of sexual content. Those cultural differences probably have at least some root in religion-in a lot of American religious environments, children are exposed to some degree of violence from a young age through Bible stories (whether learning about Jesus the Nazarene or learning about the Biblical portrayal of the Israelites and the surrounding people groups - and, yes, I do think this comfort with violence may well have implications for our foreign policy, whereas movies and games took the heat for being "too violent" - compare some of the Fox News clips you posted, except for the "sexbox?" clip about Mass Effect 1 - despite none of our many wars being caused by Mortal Kombat or Grand Theft Auto), under the umbrella of various subcultures that don't always tend to be forthright about sexual topics even in the context of married adults. Meanwhile, it wouldn't surprise me if Japan and various places in Europe, especially Germany, have a combination of 1) being often more secular than the US and less innately dependent on "cultural identity religious identity" and 2) having had their own struggles with imperialism in the not-too-distant past, are trying to go out of their way to avoid giving the appearance of glamorizing that in their media. (Wolfenstein 3D only just got removed from Germany's list of indexed video games about five years ago.)
I always liked the Dead or Alive games both for a number of their character designs (Ryu, Helena, Hitomi, Ayane, though I knew of the first and fourth primarily from Ninja Gaiden) and for their gameplay mechanics, but I would love for the series to get a Mortal Kombat 9-esque reboot where people start taking the games seriously for their gameplay. I was never very good at them, but I felt like something worth learning was there.
Thank you very much for sharing your well constructed thoughts on this issue. It never felt like you were singling anyone out, not Sarkeesian, not people who want "sensible in universe" costume choices, not people who just want fanservice. I felt like your points were well presented.
Same. I think good essay to represent of this topic.
I always think Mileena in X is hers best design ever.
An actually good thought out comment
Great response, I agree a lot. It’s entirely possible to have sexy designs without relying on bikini costumes or what have you, it’s just about striking a good balance and respecting the characters. MKX was a good example of that imo.
@@giosbizarreart9048 I'd meant to say "thank you" for saying so, I appreciated it.
People will always be envious/jealous of art & other things they don't & or can’t have.
I’m not dismissing the argument, my point is if attractive looking characters are seen as an issue, we got a problem that’s deeper than just “over sexualization”.
Most “arguments” are from a historical context, which is understandable, however isn’t actually relevant to the topic at all, as art, violence & attractiveness/sexuality is not inherently bad by themselves.
Context is key here & most complaints about videogames are purely political, not about actual content, which frankly has put videogames in a odd spot right now.
When I say “politics” I don’t mean the usual “complaints” when people bring it up, I mean forcing the cultural ideas & ideals of one country onto another.
Yes, both America & Canada are Culturally diverse, that’s not the problem.
The Problem is America & or Canada making art & or games about A SPECIFIC CULTURE & forcing another culture into it for the sake of diversity instead of just having it take place in a cultural melting pot like America & or Canada to begin with.
There are exeptions to this like the languages & localizations in order to understand what’s going on.
However, in general it’s best to be as close to the source material as possible since that’s where most of the context & inspiration is from.
The whole “updates for a modern audience” thing is bullshit too since it’s more purely political than actual concern for improvement of the source material.
For me, sexualization is often discussrd too narrowly and boils down to calculating amount of skin shown and whether the character's body type is 'sexy' or not.
People forget all about performance and PURPOSE of sexuality. Is the character supposed to be a dominant or sadist? Are they embarassed or confident about their sexuality? Do they have character traits that make them sexier regardless of attire? Do they fullfill a specific fantasy or fetish?
Like, for example, I think Nagoriyuki and Leo Whitefang from GGST are potentially incredibly sexy male characters, not because of their meat (tho Nago sure has some) but because they're both outwardly very masculine in their personalities but also have traits of hidden character depth, they have unspoken history, some mystery. Leo has PTSD which he covers up with bravado, Nago has some kind of struggle with his desires. Plus even the Onigiri rant is the kinda thing that I feel like some girls would find hot 😂
TL;DR Men and women have different things they find appealing. Nudity =/ sexualization
Exactly bro
There’s so much to think of when discussing how sexualised a character is that it goes beyond just how much skin is showing. There’s things like personality traits and voices and demeanours and so much stuff that can contribute towards how appealing a character is.
Personally I never really understood why ppl was so obsessed with sexualization in games. Like why does it matter so much to ppl. I get the issue of censorship and I think that’s a fine line, but people who get upset with a lack of sexuality in Games is just weird. Where I think it becomes a problem is when you intentionally don’t allow certain body types because of shaming. All body types should be allowed I. Games because representation across all ends of the spectrum matter, but when it’s just going out of way to be insanely sexualized to the point where it’s OD that’s when it gets weird.
Sexuality is ok because it’s life but there comes a point where it goes from whatever to you need to go find something in real life Lmao.
Why do YOU care why someone buys a product? Why can’t YOU let people enjoy things the way they’d like? And to wrap things up…obviously there are ALOT more people that want the ‘oversexualization’ than whatever NRS has done with MK1.
Sex sells. It has been since before Jesus Christ walked the earth in every community in this planet. And it will long after this video. And your weird take.
Still waiting for bikini costumes in tekken 8
So long as Zafina gets one.
There are, though don't know if it's mods or in game.
There's videos with Reina and Calvin Klein underwears in fact
@@Aki-kh2qe-StreetKidZZZ it's a mod sadly
@@Aki-kh2qe-StreetKidZZZThose are mods.
@@Aki-kh2qe-StreetKidZZZ mod
That thumbnail is crazy 💀
If the male characters can be sexy, the female characters can be sexy too.
Enough with the double standard of male characters shaped like Greek gods and female characters shaped like planks of wood.
You did a good job approaching this from a balanced perspective. It sounds like outfit customization is a must in fighting games. This gives the player the option to choose how much sexiness they see.
I had a hard time trying to explain to my wife why I like mean Redheads. (C.Viper, Baiken and Her). Also Street fighter don't miss Poison(sf4 dress), Chun Li Sf5 (dress) are peak. Laura's initial costume design is absurd with the cut off shirt but her game play was fun. :D
A bit of sexualization isnt inherintly bad but somtimes its a bit of a cheap gimmick imo that and if they want to sexualize women so bad sexualizing men should be normalized too
2:08 Weird how big boobs = sexualization. Are girls with big boobs not allowed to be anything besides sex objects?
Stop strawmanning. He never said big boobs=sexualization. A character can be flat in both ways and still be oversexualized.
He even said that it is the cleavage, buttox combined with the lack of clothing that makes it oversexualized. It is especially bad in mk9 because they all share the same body making sexy the default
@@er7776so, the problem?
@@qwertyuiop24042 literally in the first two words i wrote
You gave a good impartial analysis on this topic. Been seeing so many one-sided angry rants left and right and many of them just don't make sense. You showed that you knew exactly what to say. Thank you.
Big ups for including us folk that are into men
I for sure think big men should be allowed to be hot and designers/devs shouldn't be afraid to make characters that appeal to people who enjoy/are attracted to bigger guys like Zangief, Soriz (Granblue), and Raiden (KOF)
Wanting to play a character that appeals to you (in one way or another) isn't really a problem and shouldn't really bother anyone.
The most attractive roster to me probably has to be KOF for Tizoc, Antonov, Goro, Takuma, Raiden, Geese, and Maxima 😍
Agreed that a middle ground is a great option because I often play with friends and colleagues of the opposite gender and it can be off-putting if the sexualization is too blatant. I really liked how Capcom approached Cammy's depiction in SF6, with the main attire that highlights her figure without being too overt and a classic one that is more lewd. Both sides win.
“Jin and Victor are very muscular and attractive I feel offended & threatened”-said no man ever.
A really great video, with a really well-thought thesis. I agree with the take that a sensible middle-ground is the probably the best outcome. Kind of refreshing to see a video on the topic that acknowledges both sides of the attraction spectrum too. 👽
I can't see these two words anymore, they annoy me to a point I definitely don't want to see those two words anymore: sexualization and oversexualized.
Every time I see these words now I have the tension rising with my stress, its getting on my nerves, it's piss me off to a point you can't even imagine.
It almost makes me sick, I feel totally nauseous when I see these words. seriously.
Seriously, I really can't stand any more of this "progressive" language worthy of 1984.
I like sexualization in games. Ironically though, I don’t look at it as sexualization. I don’t get super turned on by it. So those saying “just go watch porn” this is totally different. It’s more of like an appreciation of the human body and the most ideally and unrealistically fantasized beautiful human pixels can put together. Geeks and Roman’s built statues of their ideal humans, we have a new medium these days and it’s videogames.
That Zafina's sister from SFV is cute. Here is my emoji: 👀
I think that all was the destiny for the figthing games, since they are the BOTH the only games caring about human's body AND are more popular than the actual 18+games. Or people just don't want to actually try them
Even tho sexualization is kinda a controversy with people liking it and others hating it. In my opinion theres no big deal with it. Especially most fighting games with sexualization has stuff to turn it off. And most games like dead or alive was made from it. Sexualization isnt a problem as long its not creepy like or the characters are underage. But i don't know why people act like its the worst thing but dont care if games like gta let you get escorts or murder people
That's why I love Tekken because there are thirst traps for male character too.
Eh.. I think when the industry started self censoring the sex appeal, they catered to people who (mostly) weren't even fans in the first place. 10 or so years ago, it was only disgruntled moms complaining about ''sex appeal in video games'' . They were laughed at and ignored. But suddenly feminists start complaining and the industry immediately bends over backwards. Really silly. You could bring back all the sex appeal of the early 2000s, and video game sales would not go down whatsoever. Now we are seeing the opposite effect, where devs are starting to go back to the older mentality of ''a bit of sex appeal actually isnt a bad thing'' .
A point that was a bit rushed over is body diversity, and the huge difference in design diversity between male and female characters.
Taking a look at tekken 7, with males we had giants Marduk and Fahkumram, but also a very skinny Noctis and overweight Ganryu & Bob. There was representation of almost every body type, although the majority was just hunky dudes.
With females, the entire cast is wither jane doe big booba average height, jane doe big booba short girl, and that's about it.
Personally, i'd like to see more diversity across the board but mainly with the female cast members, as they have basically no variation between them physically.
I'd say that sexualisation is definitely present for both male and female characters.
People have to understand that gaming was made by guys for guys in mind first. Gaming (back in the day atleast) has everything a guy could want. Guns, explosions, fighting, and boobs. Simple as. Fellas, never apologize for liking what you like.
It is kinda weird how depicting a woman with her top off is less acceptable than depicting a woman with her top half missing 😅
Damn...the thumbnails always got me...😂
I don't mind trashy entertainment as long as it is honest about being trashy entertainment.🤔
I think that is where much of the cultural conflict comes from.
If a parent says he doesn't want his child playing games with a bunch of barely clothed female characters, then everyone else should respond, "Okay. Fine."
If a guy says he loves the DOA franchise because of the breast physics, then everyone else should respond, "Okay. Fine."
If a lady says that she wants more women characters to dress more for combat instead of a fashion show, then everyone else should respond, "Okay. Fine "
Unfortunately, too many people don't respond, "Okay. Fine " Instead, they would rather argue because they perceive the comments as attacks that must be defended against. 🤦
There's nothing trashy about this entertainment tho.
Fighting games and their sexy characters are great.
@@imarock.7662 Okay. Fine.
Straight guys want their male characters to be bulked out like Duke Nukem or Marcus Fenix just as much as Straight woman want their female characters to be sleek and sexy like Lara Croft or Bayonetta.
The only problem with sexualisation in video games was the advertising.
My issue with the R Mika butt slap censorship is that it was an offscreen gesture you "just know" happens. It is like throwing up a middle finger and hiding it. Should have just changed the gesture altogether then.
We need .more sexualisation in games. Eff the woke weirdos
I don't think people are weirdos. They have their reasons.
It didn't shaked the game industry. I see alot tits and butts
😊
@@itsbeyondme5560 They have been indoctrinated. Yes they are weirdos. Most of the ones complaining don't even play the games they are complaining about. If you don't like it don't buy it
@Majestros true. Don't buy it . Agree
What are you yapping about bruh lmfao, everything is fine as is
@@Majestros bro you the only one indoctrinated here, you claim all you dislike to be woke. yet point the finger at others. you're the weirdo who is out of touch.
what getting no pussy does to a man... yikes
I like the sexualization in fighting games because I think it adds to the appeal of the female characters 💯💯 and I like the bosoms and buttocks that which women have been gifted with 🗿🗿💯💯💯💯
rein a is a good example of a character who's hot but doesnt feel like they were designed by a horny teenager, im glad there was pushback in evo against the doa stuff because i dont want to genre to feel like a huge meme
Pushback to DOA didn't even matter in the end.
Genre's main audience are men, so character design caters to men. Cope.
@@crossrhodes14 you don't really know how much it matters though tbf
I have no problem with women being sexually attractive in any games let alone fighting games
Oh so the reason of the video being this good apart from the anchor was that the writer was DUDLEY
The people who get offended by sexualitation in video games are the same people that praise OF.
There is absolutely a medium plane between MK9 and MK1. Its where street fighter 6 is.
Hey guys love the channel , one thing i did notice about the audio en voice recording , the echo in the room can create bad frequencess while listening this on a higher volume , this beeing a comentary video i would take a look and try to mitigate that next time , its not something everybody will notice but a few can and it ads to the pollish , maybe you guys already know and it is what it is but just in case :P Heres the emoji at the end
I don't even feel that the censoring is "cultural norms" in America. It's the sanitization of fictional content for a general "modern audience" that's the problem. Gamers have long hated localizations censoring content for us. And it only, primarily, happens on the women. Men don't get censored UNLESS it's something related to their clothing, like specific culture issues, or the rare thing like possible Blackface (Emiya Alter from FGO). Women will be censored just for existing. Women will be sexualized by people even when they're not being sexualized. Cleavage? OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!! *adds clothing/black shading. Men? Ripped beyond belief, showing chest/glutes/legs/etc.; silence. Woman has big breasts? "Sexual! Demeaning! Male gaze!".
Meanwhile, WOMEN also like hot female characters. My friend HATED that SC3's default for Seong Mi-Na was covered compared to her SC2 default. That's, obviously, not censoring but my point still stands. Women like fanservice as much as men but they don't matter cause they aren't the target audience.
I don't think you understand what a person means when they say they want beautiful characters playable in video games. You are focused on sexualization and not representation of humanity. I never said I wanted them to be naked. I want them to be attractive. I'm straight but that goes for both male and female characters when I pay them. To get the escapism that I'm looking for I want to pilot a male character that I would like to be myself or a female character that I would like to have for myself. I want to see humanity at its best and the content in games has nothing to do with protecting women, it's about feminism and hatred for men (male gaze) that is why they have to be covered up. Notice how none of the male characters have been desexualized? I even saw some games where they graphed a bulge in a penis shape on the guys..just saying. Nothing wrong with that, I'm all for creative expression, but it goes both ways. Why would I want to pilot a character and level them up if I'm not invested in what they are? I don't think displaying female or male beauty is a bad thing, it is part of humanity and humanity is what I want to see at its best when I'm trying not to be reminded of reality and enjoying myself. Just because you don't like something you're telling me I should not be allowed to watch it either? Everything is about you right?
On another topic I think what is happening in the media might have something to do with trans people. By covering up women and shaping their bodies so they look like men it can also be devaluing what a woman is so that a man dressed like one can also claim to be one. It can also be a part of gender ideology. If you are a gender ideology no offence but i don't believe in it.
I have the feeling that most of the people that complain about "over sexualisation" are not even hardcore players of thr genre to begin with.
Just a small minority you screams the loudest
Tried telling my friend that the reason Dead or Alive was popular was because of the sex appeal, he thinks it’s the gameplay, but I told him the only thing good with Dead or Alive’s gameplay was the counter system, other than that it wasn’t really that good apart from the sex appeal.
Over sexualisation is only an issue if it effects a characters visual design or characterisation (personality/story) in a negative way which you have to kinda purposely just not focus on the character itself but wasting time further sexualise them to do which is rare and more than likely not gonna happen if a development team has any amount of respect for the character and their player base.
Besides that I feel perhaps maybe the NEED to have characters be sexually appealing is hard cause what people find attractive is subjective and I think is only fair to do if you’re willing to do it to all. It’s also the question of whether it restricts character design given certain traits like age, body type or other qualities may come into factor when making diverse characters but would go against they “average” consumers idea of what is considered attractive.
The only solution to me is equal sexualisation to all (female and male), be unafraid of creating character designs that MAY oppose the requirement of being attractive or visually appealing in a sexual context. Sexualise characters absolutely but have exceptions to characters that WILL require them to be treated differently in that area depending on their age, characterisation or theming.
More attractive guys in fighting games should also should be sexualised, younger looking characters should NATURALLY be far less used for fan device or sexualised than those that aren’t and characters who are of an older age should strive to be both visually older looking AND attractive at the same time to normalise just older people being seen as attractive cause they certainly can be.
No offence to the likes of Genfu from doa but I feel characters like Bryce from Tekken and even Brad Wong himself are more suited to be an older male rep for the fighter cause they are naturally more conventionally attractive which allows for more reach in a player base and ability to put them in different marketing.
They’ll just have a better time of fitting into the “majority of the cast is hot” design of fighters and any outliers are exceptions and each character is obviously scaled in how far their fanservice and sexualisation can go in terms of how appropriate it is for them to have it. If at all in the case of non human fighters like Kuma and Panda.
It’s technical and requires nuisance but I’m sure fighting game developers can go the extra mile to have some simple cognitively ability to determine how far is too far and what makes it too little of sexualisation of their characters individually.
Characters have to be treated and scaled differently in that department if we want any amount of diversity in the form of body types like Bass and Marie or in age like from Eliot to Brad within Doa specifically. I feel Tekken and street fighter have really gone that extra mile with their latest entries and I hope Doa can do the same one day.
If you play fighting games for the fighting, for the arousal, or for some other reason, more power to you. I'm glad this discussion is taking place, but it kinda feels like the conclusions are pretty well-trodden and are making the same arguments we've heard before. They're not all bad. But it does leave out some important issues.
Like why does nobody seem to bat an eye when we have male body types that are not conventionally thought of as hypersexualized (E. Honda, Bo'Rai Cho, Rufus, Birdie, Fang, MODOK, Rocket Raccoon) but people (dudes) get super aggressive and rude whenever there's a female character that doesn't exert hypersexuality? Don't tell me we can't have different female body types when we've got loads of different male body types.
And why are non-binary players and tastes left out of the discussion entirely? This video does a good job of being objective, but it's neglecting a significant portion of the gaming audience.
I think all rosters should have diverse (or customizable!) body types and have both conservative and sexy costumes/skins for each character. Then players can have whatever works for them individually.
And before anyone complains that I'm being "woke" for suggesting that games have something for everyone... I don't get pissed when I walk into a store and every single item on the shelves isn't specifically marketed to me. Why should you? And why should you feel that way about a game?
> And why are non-binary players and tastes left out of the discussion entirely? This video does a good job of being objective, but it's neglecting a significant portion of the gaming audience.
It isn't as significant as you think.
> I think all rosters should have diverse (or customizable!) body types and have both conservative and sexy costumes/skins for each character. Then players can have whatever works for them individually.
Making costumes takes manhours and money. So obviously devs want to make as much money as they can per costume.
> And before anyone complains that I'm being "woke" for suggesting that games have something for everyone
Arrowhead motto perfectly answers this. "A game for everyone is a game for no one". Not every game is supposed to cater to everyone, sure, making the game as appealing as possible to as many people as possible might be good strategy, but not in each case. Devs want to grow their loyal playerbases, because loyal players spend the most money in games. One person who bought every skin for Ahri/Evelynn/Kaisa in League of legends is worth more to the devs than 100 people who complain about oversexualization/inclusivity and never buy anything.
as a 3D artist i know how much technical mastery and rendering power that comes with boobs physique. it feels so special for me to see games with actual gameplay that still does boobs physique.
of all days on the calendar. Releasing this video on march 8th was definitely a interesting choice haha
@2:43 This guy just sold me a copy of street fighter V 😆
I feel this essay was very well done, not really taking sides of either party saying one way is definitive, I'm sure there's people that'll argue, and that's normal, but for me, this was really well done 😀
11:00 _"These cultural norms didn't come out of thin air"_
I somewhat disagree, regarding the sex-negative trend in the west. I think the majority of people either like sexualization, or at least aren't bothered by others liking it. It seems to me there's a vocal minority of people who protest sexualization because they're either immature, prudes, in-denial hypocrites, approval seekers, or killjoys. This minority has managed to create the _illusion_ of a "cultural norm", but I think more and more people are starting to see through it. Things like this tend to come and go in cycles, often with each generation trying to distinguish itself from the one before.
Gore is repulsive but sexualised characters are provocative.
I do believe there is an art in the detail of the gore in mortal combat and aside from X-rays you aren’t necessarily forced to watch it.
However my boyfriend really wants me to play dead island 2 with him and I can’t.
It gives me anxiety and is nothing but a carnage simulator the load screens even shove gore down your throat.
It really makes me worry that people are getting too desensitised to ultra violence.
It almost feels like if I was cut in half vertically in reality some one would have recorded it and a viewer instead of feeling traumatised would request I higher quality video with new camera angles. 😰
Edit: TLDR Gore is something I find disturbing and though none of it happens to real people in these games it still resembles a person and personally I don’t see that as a positive. I can appreciate the detail and animations .
As for sexualisation: I do like sexy characters but I just take issue if some ethnicities get nothing but unattractive characters and others get an incredible look.
Good video, objective and nuanced unlike most internet discussions around this subject. 😁👍🏿
I just wish that Japan would always offer a translated Japanese version of the game. So sensitive fragile westerners can buy the edited version and westerners who like the original buy the Japanese version but just translated.
I like the Marisa's and the LoL woman in 2XKO, I also like Xiaoyu, Shiva in MK11, or the design for Tanya in MK1 (that everyone hates on because she has a severe and unique face). And Strive, though caught in weeb fantasy, at least creates female characters that look different (and a child character that isn't sexualized). If Bob can exist, maybe one day we get Bobeena.
I love fighting games and I don't think it is a crime that scantily clad women exist (I have seen many a female streamer perv over Ryu), but I do think that devs should always look to push the envelope.
ngl I want to see Bobeena now
I'm pretty sure the only child in Strive is Delilah but yes, she isn't sexualized.
0:11 "you're gonna see a lot more today"
deal.
I main Devil Jin for his juicer six pack
"Yes, Fighting games are overtly sexualized, but it's not a bad thing in and of itself. It's like saying that Shooters are violent". Did you just directly map sexualization in fighting games to violence in shooters? You shoot a bullet from a gun, it goes into the enemy and blood comes out, but, apparently, according to this video, you through a punch in a street fight and your opponent's buttons on their blouse pop off to expose massive cleavage. Or is is you guys think that the act of fighting is inherently sexy? Have any of you actually been in a fight? Had your cheek torn and getting it stitched in the emergency room while not being able to see from one eye due to swelling and holding your chest hoping you don't have any cracked ribs? Yeah, clearly "overtly sexy"
Mortal Kombat's direction is narrative choice. It's becoming a cinematic narrative now that the technology has gotten better.
In Film and TV, costume design is built on the immersive boundary. Aesthetic, tone, and narrative should all be considered.
Kitana in MK1 and 11 follows a royal, otherworldly, yet humanoid tone. While not as revealing as she was in 9 or X, those games had a lesser cinematic, more stylized tone.
Every character really in NRS MK games are built up from these motion pictures rules of design. It's more about the costume than the character. The fact face models and accurate body scans are used indicates a realistic tone of sexualization based on the immersive boundary.
Characters or "people" in the MK universe are supposed to be "real people". They just have access to superpowers and crazy athletic ability. Even in cutscene, the characters fight full-on Bullshido, and not like they do in gameplay.
Sex sells. Sexy characters don't hurt anybody. This was just a pointless complaint.
I feel like one big point was missed. Even in games which pride and advertise themselves on gameplay first ie Street Fighter Tekken Guilty Gear, there is an absolute barren wasteland when it comes to female characters who are not sexualized. SF6 roster literally has ZERO, Guilty Gear only has Bridget and arguably Delilah (surprise surprise a bit more women and especially trans women play), Tekken does a bit better but still has the huge disparity + the same face syndrome (yet surprise surprise Tekken has by far the biggest female playerbase at every level of play when it comes to fighting games). There is nothing wrong with games like Dead or Alive, there is nothing wrong with I-No or Poison, but cmon just a bit more playable characters who are just cool looking chicks fighting is not an unreasonable request…
There's nothing inherently wrong with sexualizing fictional characters. At the end of the day, it's entertainment, if a person chooses to take it personal that's not the creator's fault.
I think this video could do a lot more to differentiate from general sexualization and objectification. Bayonetta and Juri are both very sexual, but aren't really criticized that often because they are depicted as having reclaimed their identity as sexual beings and are given a lot of autonomy over themselves. They're often seen as being quite feminist by some for this. However, Alisa from Tekken is a robot with highly exaggerated jiggle physics, and is barely given any autonomy. She's just there for the player to oggle at. She has been objectified through a male gaze rather than through her own lens by having promiscuity be an aspect of her character like Bayonetta (who obviously isn't free from the male gaze, but certainly is less defined by it).
Personally, I feel Sexappeal shouldn’t matter as long as the character is wearing something, most modern fighting games have an option to cover up more. 🤠
It might be what gets someone into a game, but gameplay is *usually* why they stay 🗿
A bit off topic, but there seems to be a slight metallic echoing in your audio in your voiceover for this video.
Fair video. I'm on the side of sexier designs in fighting games because they help reinforce the illusion of being able to do over-the-top moves. More realistic proportions make the spectacular look goofy. SF6's Cammy looks weird wearing her classic costume but it looks more natural with her more stylized design from SF5.
What a time to bring out a video like this... 😉
I appreciate that Tekken has the bikini skins even though I never use them 👙
S Xualization is still present in fighting games. Its just not service to normal people anymore. Its now a service that weirdos, you know, they/them community hahah :D what a shame :D we live in a dystopia unfortunately :)
I main waifus, and never realized this moght be why 😅
I remember Dead or Alive on Xbox. I didn't like playing it because I was a Tekken fan but boy did I love watching other people play it!
Who wants to make fighting games more accessible *Everyone raises their hand*
Who wants to make a fighting game *Nobody raises their hand*
There were attempts, but as it stands now not a single one survived. Only big franchises like Tekken are still going strong.
I just want tag mode in fighting games again. I miss those 4 player mortal Kombat matches that were absolute mayhem.
I will admit... I almost dismissed this video because I thought you'd be trashing DOA the entire video while elevating every other fighting game under the sun. Everyone seems to use DOA as a punching bag nowadays.
But someone told me to give the video a chance, and I was pleasantly surprised on how nuanced it is. Thank you for this.
The coney tweet is evergreen. 😊
Me arriving in the video: 😠😤😡🤬
Me after finishing the video: 🤗🥰🤩☺
Sexualization in fighting game is always great, and amazing.
People like it, and those who don't can either suck it up or simply not buy the game.
Im sick of people who dont play these games trying to put their input on them.
Sexualization of fighting game characters…you know they will talk only about women, but men naked and more buff than Olympia competitors…
I think you often confuse "sexualized" and "attractive" in this video. Male characters are attractive yes, but not as sexualized as female characters. Games used to be made with boys in mind, so we put the type of men they'd idolize and the type of women they'd fancy. Given how much we talk about sexualization, it's not weird to adress its relevancy in videogames. Also, some female characters act alluring or are dominatrix, but I can't think of a male characters doing that. Not that it's wrong, but sexualization is not only linked to visual design.
Regarding the comparison to violence, you can't have guns or fighting without it. However, what's the link between sex and martial arts ? I understand that it may seem odd that culturally one is accepted and not the other. But personally, if I shoot a guy and they bleed, seems normal, if I punch a guy and they bleed, seems normal, if I go to a dojo for a fight and my opponent is dressed for the gala with a deep cleavge and they're winking at me, doesn't seem normal.
Yes those are not real people. But we talk about representation and identification. And I think we still have some ways to go.
I don't have a problem with women characters showing some skin and cleavage, I have problems if it's a bit too much, it might be too subjective to quantify, but I won't object it being in the game, maybe a good compromise would be giving players the option for said characters to show skin or to cover them up. A lot ofmodern fighting games got this covered with customization.