My Chickering Concert Grand
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2020
- A 1925 Chickering concert grand piano is restored using some modifications to the original design.
www.buymeacoffee.com/insidepi...
Dale Erwin:
erwinspiano.com
David Stanwood:
www.stanwoodpiano.com/
Arno Patin:
www.arnopianos.com/ 
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I'm so glad the Google algorithms helped me stumble upon your videos. Your abilities as a technician and player are remarkable.
All praise the algorithm!! Thanks for watching and remarking.
My family's 1923 Chickering Quarter grand is incredibly robust in character and has amazing action, even though it's out of regulation. The character is what makes it's voice so rich, sophisticated in aesthetic complexity, it's quite amazing... despite needing heavy work done it. I searched many, many used piano stores and visited collectors with huge ranges of piano types and I find that for Debussy, certain Chickerings remain the most compelling options, and I'm sure a larger one than mine would be much better. I did play an 1890's 11ft Chickering grand in Fitchburg, MA once, but the hammers were grooved so it wasn't a clear tone so it was hard to appreciate. I'm entirely impressed by how well the golden era Chickerings were thought out and engineered. Real unique and individual souls, each one, and some sing so wonderfully. I also found that for some Debussy pieces, the Bill Bremmer EBVT III tuning is almost mind blowing, bringing out a 3D like character from the piano. Or maybe I would be happier with a 1928 model A Steinway because I want to play Beethoven too...but many Debussy works come into their depth on Chickerings with the right tuning, right space, and cover off, I think (even though apparently Claude himself often chose to play with the cover down). Your work looks amazing, I hope someday when ready I'll reach out and you'll consider doing some work on our family piano. It could go so far I think.
You’re one of many Chickering enthusiasts I’ve encountered through this channel. Complexity is a good word for their sound. Feel free to reach out to me regarding restoration.
The sound is off the hook. I agree with you philosophy. In short, Piano is about music, is about sound. Fearless, life is short, carry on my wayword son. There"ll be peace when you are done ))). And thank you so much, for so much piano and recording technology guidance.
Excellent! I few years ago I had the privilege to play a 9 ft Chickering from this same 1920’s era. I was blown away by the sound. It was unlike any other brand of pianos that I have played. Thanks for posting.
You’ll still see some for sale. They’re pretty special, that’s for sure!
What a fantastic video. I had a Chickering and loved it. You've got this concert grand sounding real sweet. Such a cool old instrument.
Wicked sounding recording. And, as ever, an exemplary and oh so erudite presentation!
Geez, Michael, you sure know how to make a RUclipsr/piano technician/recording engineer blush! Means a lot from the likes of you!
I've followed your channel for a while but just saw this video. A lifetime Chickering fan as we had a 5'8" Ampico era player grand which I still have. I've been trying to sort out my lucky Chickering find for a year now. I saw a local Ad for a Chickering "baby grand" and went to see it. Nearly fainted when I found it was a 7' 1915 grand for $400. Much more impressive bass than my Parler grand and bright midrange but the treble seems not up to the rest of the scale. Your work has given me a lot to digest and explore to make it a better instrument! Thanks, and best to you with your Baldwin. Always loved playing my high school's concert Baldwin.
How’s that 7-footer sounding these days???
This piano sounds reminiscent of an earlier instrument. It’s warm without being chlorine and delicate without being weak. I’m quite impressed with it. I am usually not a fan of pianos produced in the latter half of the 20th century as they seem to strive for adjust sound and I see us. I am generalizing here but I think you know what I mean. This is a lovely piano.
What a wonderful video. I am excited about the beautiful Chickering I purchased from you today. 😊
I could not be more thrilled. I think you and your Chickering will form a special bond.
Amazing work! It is apparent that you deservedly take great pride in this instrument. It is always refreshing to see and hear a piano in a recording setting besides a Yamaha C7, let alone a full 9’ concert grand from this great period of American piano making. What a great second life you’re giving this piano :)
Thanks so much, Russ! Clearly I am pretty enamored with this instrument. And having played and listened to Chickering concert grands from the decades preceding the time mine was made, I’m doubly impressed. I feel they were making some great strides...they just got beat to the punch by others and soon after ceased to produce any concert grands.
As you say, there was just something in the air in the 20s regarding pianos. And to your final point, I’m happy to offer something unique as a recording studio piano.
I think what you did was brilliant! You were able to take skme of the best attributes of much mire expensive pianos. I love the voice of your piano and unlike so many pianos which can be characterized predictably instead you've side stepped those issues retaining a bit of glassiness in the upper register contrasted by the expansive bssx and baritone. My ears love it! Genius. Bravo!
My piano teacher has a 7 1/2 foot Chickering. Her husband had it entirely rebuilt. He did the action. He was a superlative technician. The treble was a problem. He could not get a good sustain from that area. The bass was wonderful. It overpowered the rest of the piano. It was like a concert grand. That piano was from the 1890’s. The sounding board was shimmed.
This is a common complaint from Chickerings from that era in part due to the utilization of short strings in the treble. In fairness to the original design, as a board ages and loses stiffness it will favor the bass and diminish the treble. What's interesting about the grand in the video is that by then they incorporated a rear duplex scale to add color and power. They never went with a front duplex though (like the other main American brands). The treble got darned good on this piano but never great. That's why I decided to try my luck with a Baldwin concert grand (purchased for around the same price), as you may have seen in my videos. I'm due for an update about that piano, so look for that in Jan or Feb.
Thanks for watching!
i have the same treble problem with my 1886 knabe grand 7 feet 5 inches. i can kive with it since i dont have the talent to make the full length runs, i am more or less stuck around middle c . below c6 it sounds fantastic. i might try doing what you did with the treble strings cant hurt. thanks !!! @@insidepianos
Very very cool Ben. I am learning a lot. Thank you!
Norbert! Thanks for watching! I'm glad you're enjoying these.
Great video Ben! The piano sounds absolutely lovely - clear & warm! (or maybe that’s just your playing)
Gosh, thanks Rachel!! The piano is definitely clear and warm on its own, but I sure enjoy how it makes my playing sound. 🙂
sounds aweesome!!
I appreciate it!!
I also got a Chickering concert grand from the 1920s, similar to yours for the insane price of 8,000. The bones were good but I put new hammers (Abel) and regulated to precision. There is no reason why a Chickering concert grand cannot sound as good as a Steinway or a Bosendorfer and mine does quite frankly. I know because i played on both. You can look me up on You Tube if you'd like to hear me playing it. Regulation is the key.
This is just such a great tutorial/summary of your concerns for specific improvements, what you did to realized them;... and that it actually worked like you expected. In my opinion, this shows a really highly developed musical sense and knowledge/experience of piano construction/design and a willlingness/bravery to "go for it"!!! Also, I really appreciate, because I find myself doing the same thing, your sweat equity approach! I've got Mario Igrec's book, but it feels like drinking water from a fire hose. Many Thanks for making and publishing this! It's really encouraged me to put some "elbowgrease" into my 1933 Baldwin F.
I agree, it's got that Fazioli sound. Would love to lay hands on it sometime and "get a tour"! All the Very Best!
Ah! I see you got Igrec's book. Disregard that suggestion I made in response to your other comment. You're on your way, I'm sure!
And thanks for the comments on my Chickering!
Gotta try those treble wires myself. I almost always renotch bridges myself to achieve more sustain especially in that ‘killer octave’ area.
Incidentally.....if you want to see a Chickering of note....email me. I’m in the RPT registry.
I sort of regret not doing some light renotching above that area I addressed-not to change the speaking lengths but just to do what I could to improve sustain and clarity.
I listen to a lot of piano RUclips channels I have to say to my untrained ear this is the clearest most beautiful sound I have heard. It is clear not tinny it is dancing but not loose it is rich but not muffled.
Thanks so much Betty Jane! I’m flattered. Here’s hoping you’ll like the piano I replaced the Chickering with. I’ll be releasing some content of that soon.
I have the same Chickering 9’, mine dates from 1933-34. I’ve had it for nearly 40 years.
Wow. That has to be one of the very last concert grands Chickering produced. What sort of condition is it in? I’m curious if they made any changes to the design by then. Mine had a rough spot in the baritone region-6 notes from C#3-F#3 that had an overtonal messiness to them. I’m curious if they resolved that in yours.
I’ll be honest, I miss that piano quite a bit.
@@insidepianos From what I can see on the video, mine looks identical to yours. Same plate, same decals. Mine was a school piano, with rails along the bass side on the outside of the case. It had some work done before I got it, as the plate decal has been painted over. There are some cracks in the soundboard, but they are stable. I’ve never addressed them and they have not grown in the 40 years I’ve had it. I’m assuming the keys might have had ivories originally, but they are plastic now. A technician who has seen it in the past thinks the ivories were replaced, but I’m not so sure. It looks original to me. The tone is nice and stable, if a bit bright. It definitely needs regulation, as it’s hard to play softly. Overall it’s still a pretty fine specimen of its kind.
What a gorgeous sounding piano! Your tuning is very accurate. I would love to see a video of a complete tuning. This piano is definitely in the same class as Steinway and other top brands.
Well, I never tire of hearing that a piano of mine is gorgeous. :) This Chickering has been a joy to own. However, for reasons I will describe in future episodes of IP I have decided to sell this instrument (for less than the total amount I've invested). If you are in the market you can go to my website for more details and for my contact info. You'll find the address in my ABOUT section.
As regards tuning, I appreciate the compliment. I'm self-taught and unabashedly reliant on my tuning app (Verituner). I'm not quick...but I'm careful.
Cheers and thanks so much for watching!
@@insidepianos Hate to see this piano leave your studio but look forward to hearing the piano that will replace it.
MrClassicalMusic1 I’ll certainly try to make the new piano super special as well.
beautiful warm sound in this piano !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you! I miss it, actually. I’m currently doing similar but deeper work to my ‘62 Baldwin SD6 that I replaced the Chickering with. I’m hoping it will finally offer a similar warmth (with some added advantages).
Excellent video
Thanks for being such a loyal viewer!
The 3 great grand pianos in 1925.. Chickering, Weber and Steinway!
Knabe was also in the running.
I love big Chickerings. They are my favorite pianos. Yours sounds just as good as any concert instrument used today. The new Mason Hamlin is also a great piano. Id love to play your piano but I am in Southern California so it isn’t likely. You did a superior job. My piano teacher had a 7’ 6” Chickering which her husband restored. He was very good at his trade but the treble never came out like yours. It had to have the sounding board shimmed. That may have been the problem.
I once owned a cool Chickering with an extra wide soundboard in Seattle. Because Chickering and Steinway and Mason & Hamilin were all busily experimenting with design possibilities so they are generally responsible for the increased dynamic range of modern instruments. American Pianos! Now however Bechstein has taken the lead in combining most of the American innovations as well as Japanese and other modern strategies.
I believe you really improved the sound and touch of your concert grand Chickering. I have a 1869 Chickening Square Grand. Although never restored that I’m aware of, it still plays relatively well. Very subdued and mellow. Currently I’ve got my eye on a Chickering art deco parlor grand player (Ampico) from around 1929. Wondering if you have any advice? It was supposedly restored 25 years ago. Thanks for the great video. You are very talented. 👍
Wow, i bought the exact same model on facebook a few months ago, for only 2k Canadian dollars. But it’s been poorly rebuilt, i was trying to work on it a little bit and see if i can improve it,
Good luck! They can be really soulful pianos!
Hi. Thank you so very much for detailing the modifications you’ve done to your beautiful Chickering concert grand. I too feel as you do about nudging pianos and striving to get the sound and feel you know exists but isn’t there. I just replaced my 1910 Chickering quarter grand for a 1935 Steinway B. I had work done to the Chickering to voice it the way I wanted. It turns out, what sounded better to my ears in person didn’t translate in recordings. An opportunity arose and I was able to get the B at a price that was very good so I decided to go for it. I’d like to modify this Steinway and go all out for the action and tone I’m looking for. I haven’t found technicians that I feel are expert enough or willing to take on the job.
What do you suggest I do to locate a technician that I can trust to get me to my goal? Perhaps I could fly you out to assist in detailing what should be done? I think your approach is perfect. Thanks again for your video and your channel!
Hi there! You sum up my approach very nicely. Congratulations on your new Steinway! Perhaps you could contact me through the address found on my website insidepianos.com
I’d be curious to know what area you live in. Perhaps we could discuss a consult either via telephone or in person.
I wonder if you have come across my videos on recording classical piano. Perhaps I could be of some help in that area as well.
Beautiful tone. Much better than the sterile tone of new pianos.
Agreed, this sound is anything but sterile.
I am involved in a very similar project. I've always dreamed of owning a Steinway concert grand but could never afford even a used one. My piano took a reverse journey from the east to California - a sight-unseen purchase of an 1870 Steinway concert grand that had gotten an overhaul with a new soundboard and action in 2001, but with less than optimal results. I am not a piano tech, but have spent weeks voraciously reading all of the Stanwood articles, RUclips videos, and have Igrec's book "Piano's Inside Out" on the way. I noticed you have a copy in the background -- is it possible that you garnered all the knowledge you display in this video from self education like I'm trying to do? My goal is to lighten and even out a heavy touch and sweeten the tone to get as close to that "Steinway" sound as possible. I am going to replace the shanks and wippens with WNG composites, move the knuckles to 19mm, improve the key ratio by moving the capstans closer to the balance rail, and I bought an old set of 1986 NY Steinway concert grand hammers on ebay, although since I got them I'm thinking that was a big mistake since they're hard as rocks and I am not sure I can soften them up. Anyway, just wanted to say I am inspired by your experience that I just might be able to pull this off... I was curious how you implemented Stanwood's techniques--did you have to attend a seminar or did you pay him a consultant's fee to walk you through it?
Hi L F K! We are kindred spirits for sure! I have 4 music degrees and at this point in my life I am not going back to school. This to say that the interest in piano technology that crescendoed over the last decades has taken place outside of formal training. I have had real-life mentors along the way (and a phone call away) as well as those in print and on RUclips. Igrec's book is fantastic and I sort of feel you should a prize for noticing it. I seriously wondered if anyone would pick up on it. Probably one of the best uses of money you will ever spend.
To your Steinway, you will continue to learn amazing amounts on that adventure. Speaking from the hip, I hope you know not to ever expect it the sound and feel of a modern Steinway. It's just so different in design. That said, if successful you will have created a rare opportunity for anyone who sits at its keys. And I would (though speaking from pure ignorance) expect it to have a proto-Steinway sound at least.
In addition to being too hard, those modern hammers will surely be too heavy. I wonder if you've thought of starting with appropriate hammer weight, as best as you could research, and work to accommodate that. And I'm speaking of a weight appropriate to the string scale and belly design, not the rebuilt action itself. In other words, I can imagine that magically inserting a modern Steinway action into an 1870s model would be a bull in a china shop situation.
I confess I don't have experience in instruments that old; I'm just shooting from the hip with the thoughts that come to mind. I wish you the best of luck. It's an awesome project that I hope yields a video or two.
Love this channel! You mentioned that if you keep your Chickering you might make some other modifications. What would those be?
Thanks...er...geezer! I would further modify the scale in two ways. The tenor region has a span of notes that lack purity of tone due to a longitudinal vibration issue. I don’t know all the ins and outs except to say that the up and down vibration and the vibrations that travel the string longitudinally interact unfavorably. I noticed in this area that Steinway bulges out their string length to avoid this inherency. So that’s one.
The other would be try to add a front duplex in the capo section (the upper section with a solid down bearing bar), that is, a portion of wire on the player side of the note’s speaking length that’s free to vibrate sympathetically. Baldwin, Steinway, M & H all went to this (in addition to the rear duplex that mine already has) and the result is a ringier, more colorful tone. Sustain might be improved as well.
(Chickering seems to have been resistant to duplex scales. Maybe they felt their lack thereof distinguished their sound. I really recommend, if you’re interested, listening to recordings (on YT) of their concert grands from earlier in the century. You’ll hear readily what I referring to. A big improvement was made by going to a rear duplex by the time they made mine but they didn’t take it as far as they could.)
This would involve some precision grinding as well as getting a hold of a curved bar to form two terminus. Sigh. Worth it? Probably?
I kind of love the idea of taking this finely-made hull and tricking it out best as we (meaning the collective piano tech consciousness) can.
Both of these hopeful enhancements would be performed in conjunction with a refresh of the soundboard-scraping and painting w epoxy-as well as a new pinblock. Serious stuff. And the changed string lengths would be part of a comprehensive bridge re-capping.
I would expect all of this to launch the piano into the stratosphere of sonic pleasure!
@@insidepianos I like all your innovations and improvements - and such should all piano rebuilders be on the lookout for.
Though we all have different tastes, I'm not sure I would assume NY Steinway to be the representation of piano perfection (in design or practice).
Many issues and inconsistencies can be found with Steinways, as an aside.
You might sample technical designs from Bosendorfer, Steingraeber, Grotrian and even stretch farther back to the Erard or Pleyel?
Very nice video, lest I forget :) Wish I had your media skill!
@@joelweber3462 Thanks for taking the time to check out this video. And I agree that if I do reshape the baritone portion of the bridge I should do some broad research. It was interesting, however, to note that my scale comported with Steinway almost exactly in the mid section than varied wildly at the section in which I experience that aggravating longitudinal vibration issue.
My studio's clients have become more and more interested in video projects, so that's an ability it has behooved me to acquire. Definitely comes in handy on RUclips.
The recording sounds great. I'm looking to get into recording pianos myself. What microphone(s) are you using?
Thanks so much!! This video, along with the other two in the series, go into what mics I use and other aspects of my approach to the very difficult task of recording pianos: ruclips.net/video/m7-Viw5b1js/видео.html
Sounds great! Is that an Aeolian-era Chickering?
Excellently astute question from Mabel! From what I can tell this is just pre-Aeolian. In fact, it’s the last concert grand (model) Chickering made that I’m aware of. They seemed to move exclusively into the consumer market in the 30s. I view this piano as being nearly of the same caliber of the Biggies but with a few design flaws and slight shortcomings that kept Chickering from medaling, as it were. It’s fascinating to think about that competitive time in piano making, when companies were striving to out-innovate each other. And if you listen to examples of Chickering concert grands from just a decade or to before you get a feel for how quickly they were advancing! A bit sad that they were, in my opinion, so narrowly beat out in a market that could only sustain so many super-serious makes of piano.
Wow! What a wonderful sound you've been able to achieve with your beautiful classic Chickering. I am eagerly awaiting my own Chickering Concert Grand built in 1840 and completely rebuilt in 1960 by the 3rd generation owner who has been a piano tech since then.
Hi Bryan, I appreciate the compliment from another Chickering guy!
I bet you're _eagerly_ awaiting your Chickering. :) I'm extremely curious about it. They would have only been in business for less than 2 decades and innovating away! Does it yet have the solid plate? I do hope a RUclips video results. If so, keep my in the loop because I'd love to see and hear it.
Lastly, you may think I'm crazy, but for reasons I will describe in future episodes of IP I have decided to sell this instrument (for less than the total amount I've invested). If you are in the market you can go to my website for more details and for my contact info. You'll find the address in my ABOUT section.
Best of luck for a speedy and safe arrival of your Chickering and thanks so much for watching!
@@insidepianos It's been here 4 days and I've spent every waking moment working on it. According to the registry, the build date was between 1881-1891, not 1840. That was the previous owners' belief, but he mistook the case number of 1694 for the serial number. Once I find the serial number, they will be able to tell me who it was initially purchased by and where it was shipped from the shipping records! I have been taking some vids while I clean and rebuilt it, and will post them soon and let you know. I'm fabricating hammer shanks, flanges and whippens to match the original design. There are 10 keys that have modern replacement shanks and flanges that don't work properly. Great to find anothe Chickering lover!
PS Where did you buy your strings??? I love the warmth and depth they have.
So happy to hear you have your Chickering now! I can relate to the obsession you’re currently feeling. Making you’re own shanks, impressive!
Though I was real curious what an 1840s Chickering would have looked like, i would think one from later in the century will be a more satisfying instrument to our modern ears. Was this a disappointment to you?
Does it have 88 keys? The dates you provided seem to span the jump from 85-88.
Regarding strings, the bass are from GC and the high treble are Mapes International Gold. But of interest to you are the middle strings which I got from Paulello in France. If you are restringing you MUST go to Arno Putin’s website and we’ll as Paulello’s. They will be of particular value to you given the date of your piano.
Good luck and have fun. Can’t wait to see those vids. Thanks for making them.
@@insidepianos It is an obsession! It has 88 keys and is overstrung, which was my first clue it couldn't be before 1873 when the dubious Steinway patent expired. I will certainly check out Arno's site for the middle strings. Yours sound so gorgeous!
I just learned a bit about duplex scaling regarding sympathetic resonance and I see you only one smal area of felt ribbon.
One wouldn't want to defeat the purpose of the duplex scale by muting it with string braiding. (Assuming I understand your comment.)
@@insidepianos Was the duplex original with the Chickering?
It was, yes. I thought about adding a front duplex if I did more with this instrument but only had vague ideas on how to accomplish that.
Nice sustain - warm. What brand hammers?
Thanks, David. I love the warmth as well! The hammers are Ronsen Weickert felt-16 lb. I’m starting to use their Bacob get hammers as well. I want more data but so far so good. They’re even softer but the spring gives a lovely bloom.
I've been reflecting on your technique of putting the height of the whippen on the line between the bottom of the key at the centre pin and the flange of the whippen when the key is pressed half down (you know what I mean?) and concluded that this would not be correct. It should be measured with the key in rest because the friction is stronger at the point when the movement starts (it feels sticky then), so, when you would implement my idea, the friction in the action when the key gets pressed down, starts with zero and then increases somewhat. The phase of stickyness is spread out over the whole movement. Would this make any sense?
Of course no one will notice any difference if you lubricate the touching parts well with teflon powder.
That's really interesting. Anyone else want to weigh in??? My understanding of the rational behind the method I used is that because that parts are aligned at mid-travel I have minimized the motion (or rubbing) of the parts through the entirety of key travel. Therefore I have brought part friction down to a minimum.
My understanding of the approach you're proposing is that total part-against-part friction is increased, however a possible upside is that you've minimized said friction at the point of greatest inertial resistance, i.e. the beginning of the key stroke. I get it. Question is: will the gathering of action resistance be undesirable? Additionally, will the wear on the soft surfaces of the parts be accelerated?
@@insidepianos I woke up this morning and the thought occurred that the acceleration and therefore the pressure will be at its highest at the start of the movement. Therefore my idea would also lead to less wear overall, probably.
Another thing is the difference of position between the balance pin between the black and white keys. I guess one always has to deal with a compromise, unless the black keys get whippens that go further down. That would actually make an improvement that even Shigeru Kawai and Fazioli didn't implement it, or even Steingreaber! Maybe you can?
I hope you're assiduasly using a damp chaser.
My studio is a tight room, humidity controlled. I’m religious about that. (However, I no longer own this instrument.)
@@insidepianos oh man I was having fantasies about recording with it. Anyway I used to have a brilliant Steinway tech who would also work on my shitty old upright (actually she worked miracles with it) anyway even though Seattle has the best humidity for pianos, a few of her top end clients had damp chasers and those expensive instruments hardly needed tuning she completely convinced me of their value.
I once had some dampp chasers on my first grand, a Young Chang. I had a power outage during a summer thunder storm. The piano went out of tune then back into tune a little while after the power came back on. That convinced me of their value!
Btw, feel free to fantasize about recording on my ‘62 Baldwin SD-6, though it really needs to be restrung to realize its true potential. I hope to be able to do that within a year.
Very nice piano. Even the 30 hours you spent would cost a great deal.