I made this video because I am frustrated at the outcome of the Apu discussion... That we are in this permanent state of limbo where the show just doesn't officially talk about it or make a final decision on the character. A bunch of stuff happened and Apu may or may not exist going forward. Who knows? The Simpsons certainly won't talk about it. It's like they fumbled the ball on the last two times they addressed it, and it feels like the show just wants to run away. So we're stuck in this vague unsatisfying outcome. I also wanted to approach this from the perspective of a Simpsons fan, since that's who I am. I didn't really want to make a video summarizing all of Hari's arguments because that is what the doc is for and he doesn't need me speaking for him. Go watch the doc, I promise it is not that scary. I walked away from the doc kinda confused why some Simpsons fans took the criticism so personally. Or maybe not "personally" but were that mad about his criticism toward the show. So I kinda wanted to explore that a little. I'm sure I misunderstood some stuff in this vid or didn't clarify points properly (this is waaaaay not my expertise) so let me know where I might have goofed up. 👍
the state of limbo thing is a recurring problem with the Simpsons, it feels like they're always too scared to make any sort of change or decision, I remember times when it felt like they were going to try more ambitious stuff but chickened out and went back to the status quo because they're afraid of alienating the audience even though I think most of the audience would be pretty open to change
they know that either decision will alienate some viewers, and they don't want to make that call. i say, get over it. the documentary is another virtue signalled, over analyzed, and too much feelings when it comes to comedy. apu did not hurt indians more than indians hurt people. maybe apu should be a telemarketing scammer or something more akin to amercians interactions with indians. there's no room for feelings in comedy.
Before the whole controversy, Apu really was one of the most prominent characters, is interesting how he managed to evolve so much in a show that was constantly strangling Teh few thing it give to others, but now everything was just lose I guess
The social cohesion of 90s America was a sense of peace that we're never getting back. Yes I know HnR is from 2003 but it's a vestige of pure 90s spirit and the 2000s hysteria hadn't totally set in yet
They'll get shit from either side no matter what they do, so best to make the compromise that makes no one happy, rather than making one side incredibly angry and the other side being still unsatisfied.
Bruh, it sooo obvious they decided not to recast and let the fans get upset to show the comedian who complain about it. That outside of him, no one really care
I think the knock-on effect of losing Apu is that it highlights how much worldbuilding was contingent on these secondary characters. We saw that back in the Scully era with what was lost with the removal of Hutz and Troy, and in the last 10 years we've seen the impacts of losing Edna and Apu, along with the increasing scaling back of Harry Shearer's characters to cover for his declining voice (he's in his 80s now). It makes the world of Springfield feel oddly empty.
Yeah, it's not just that I miss Apu. I miss the Kwik-e-Mart. I miss the interactions with Snake. I miss the bullies shoplifting bear. I feel like the writers have tried to pivot the "quirky small business clerk" character to Comic Book Guy, which has had... odd results, to say the least.
The attempts to develop CBG would at least be better if they consistently used Kumiko, but she's made a grand total of 3 voiced appearances since her introduction an entire decade ago.@loan
@@rainspectre3153 I mean, she's basically Mandula, then, right? She didn't have lines all that regularly (once a season or so?), and definitely got less character work in the Apu spotlight episodes than Kumiko gets in the CBG ones.
i genuinely don't know what they're gonna do with all of harry's characters if the show is still running when he passes, given that he does so many of them.
"What does the future hold for Apu? Heh heh, let's just say we've got a few ideas up our sleeve." "Like what?" "Um...I'd rather not get into it right now." "Why not?" "All right. We don't have any ideas for the future. We've got nothing. Happy?" "No."
@@richardarriaga6271tbf, bud light took a crowd that isn't their highest percentage of buyers and tried to reorient their branding to support something their crowd. almost cartoonishly, is against and expected it to go well. If it'd been underwear, food, a store, etc etc. There would've not been an issue. Though... having the ad involve a bathtub was definitely a weird take 😆
a few ideas up your sleeve? at this time of day? at this time of year? in this part of the country? localized entirely within your writing room? yes. can i see it? no.
Anyone else click on this expecting a video about Apu's appearences in the flash-forward episodes that take place in the future of the Simpsons characters?
Yes and to be honest I would have much rather had 20 minutes of wild speculation based on split second freeze frames that the whole walking on eggshells around a sensitivity issue. I think the vast majority of people had no problem with Apu, Family Guy and South Park have overtly racist jokes in every other episode. They're tolerate on the basis that they're jokes. The Simpsons on the other hand never really aimed to cause offense, and I think we have to cut it some slack. On Family Guy the shock humour premise allows them to make overtly racist observations and hide behind the genre. The Simpsons takes a more honest approach to joke writing and I think the majority of people would agree that although you could be offended by some of their jokes or characters, that wasn't ever the point of the joke.
@@SineN0mine3 That's why I like what the show has done. They aren't making a show of being ashamed of what they did with him, because they aren't ashamed. It was honest. However, they didn't feel they could continue and feel comfortable in it, so they stopped. They have plenty of other stories to tell.
Apu was overall one of the most well rounded people in Springfield. From his origins as just a convenience store clerk to becoming a full fledged character with more backstory than most of the regulars on the show that wasn't the Simpsons themselves.
only to be ruined by a talentless hack of a comedian who one of his biggest exploits was ruin castlevania. Let us admit, even Doom became problematic in the eyes of these people.
Apu is almost never portrayed negatively. He's a hard working, devoted, social man with life, love, an education, and a family. Apu is probably the best character in the Simpsons.
@@irenestylist5455what's the problem there? It is a stereotype yes, but Simpsons is a parody of America. It's so stupid, what was actually bad about Apu compared to any other character? Are non white characters not allowed unless they are flawless heroes or what?
Remember the citizenship test episode and how he really struggles with what his parents would think and forsaking his culture and religion. Yes its done in a silly cartoon way but it leaves the right impression.
I always felt like it would have been far better that Apu became Bart's new 4th grade teacher rather than the canon soppy Flanders teacher arc of which nothing came of it
Ms Payton can be funny when she’s struggling like a MF to not offend anyone lol there’s a few jokes where she’s stumbling over her words and it’s really funny
Honestly I like that idea. I feel like both of them would’ve really liked the change-Apu getting out of his old routine and Bart having a less harsh teacher who he knows fairly well
The documentary is wrong becaude it doesn't take into account the fact that the show makes fun of all nationalities, so i don't get why should indias be the exception.
@@autismobinch135 he makes so much money he can support his big family while getting constantly robbed and he get a lot of regular custommer he's indeed a successfull business owner
@@autismobinch135He's not just the manager. He owns the place. Sure it's part of a corporate chain, but there's a massive difference between managing a 7/11 and owning a 7/11.
@@autismobinch135 Apu is more successful than the main character of the show, and most of the other regular characters. He also has one of the strongest moral backbones in the entire show. Does that not count for anything? He's probably one of the best role models in the whole cast
Anything pre-2020 feels ages ago. To be fair, that's probably cause of the change in decade, and the pandemic definitely worsened that. Curse you, natural flow of time! Make more sense in relation to current world events!
The way the "No Good Read" scene is framed is so freaking corny too. The weirdly specific dialogue and Apu picture frame to throw any level of subtlety it could've had out the window, to Lisa and Marge solemnly staring at the camera in a way that feels like it's desperately trying to get those sympathy points. And it's all played dead seriously. And the fact it's yet to actually come to fruition only makes the scene worse in hindsight. Great coverage of the whole situation. Here's to hoping we haven't seen the end of Apu.
It’s a reason I (and I’m sure many others) stopped watching a while ago and just rewatch the earlier seasons instead. We know The Simpsons now isn’t the same show as it was, the characters aren’t the same characters, and the writers don’t seem to have even watched the earlier Simpsons, they certainly don’t understand the earlier writers’ vision for a lot of things. So I just see it as the Simpsons already ended years and years ago, this scene was very cringy and it only serves to disappoint. No point getting mad at something pretending to be the Simpsons that we know isn’t the Simpsons anyway, no matter how much it pretends it is.
No Good Read was the newest episode I watched for years, since it was so awful I stopped watching any Simpsons episodes not on DVD ever since (except for that Primal episode I got tricked into watching). What really doesn't help is Lisa and Marge's No Good Read ending was some B plot about outdated literature that felt like it was going somewhere.
Considering how Krusty's role as Springfield's congressman is not touched upon since he won Springfield's congressional district I would love to see Apu defeat Krusty and Apu becomes Springfield's new congressman.
@@bluecanine3374 Can we please not touch Trump like plots?! I understand if it has to be done (though it really does not have to be), but it really doesn't result in anything most people don't want.
Which should be, and is starting to be, the wake up call that they need to vastly work on and include more of the other characters of color in the show.
that would of never happened if cry baby didnt start complaining about a problem NOBODY TALKED ABOUT. he wanted his 5 minutes of fame, got it and successfully killed off apu. nice.
he was fine without the documentary. all it highlighted was south asians have a rough time being called apu in america but "woke" brigade lol. cringed @@FelicityGemini
Apu has always struck me as a character skating on an incredibly thin line between “laughing at” and “laughing with.” If you’re a serious fan I think you’ve grown to love all the characters so much that you can’t quite see their flaws. Like how Marge sees Homer different than Patti and Selma. They both see Homer accurately, but their conclusions are filtered through their degree of personal affection.
I think that as many others have mentioned the show is full of stereotypes but in many ways Apu was seen as a smart responsible man who worked but saw the flaws of the US system People have a right to complain and to improve the show but removing apu was just weak. The show is full of gay stereotypes and no one complains. Honestly often those jokes reflect on my own experiences and serve as a mirror for our reality. I can imagine the same has happened with apu
@@valetech8751 As a gay man, I have a lot of problems with the way Smithers has been used to depict homosexuality over the years. I wouldn’t want him pulled from the show, but I think he’s been a harmful character in some ways. So I wouldn’t agree that Apu is the “only” character who has been singled out or even deserves to be singled out. I think it’s perfectly alright to reflect on the flaws of a show we all love.
First off thanks for answering. I used to watch your channel a lot. Apparently lots of people seem to think you are too conservative for a queer person. As a queer person as well i think it's important to have a wide range of views and opinions. To be honest smithers bothers me less then for example 'julio' the latino gay man. As a latino and queer i do think his portrayal is rather flat and stereotypical. So i wouldn't say i enjoy his character. On the other hand it's part of the tapestry of the simpsons that makes the show so unique. So maybe we should have a few more queer centric episodes that explore those dynamics. None the less i wouldn't want julio or smithers to be radically changed. Maybe adding more depth to their characters for example would be interesting
honestly that feels the best course. If the fans think it was "correct" to voice how offensive he was and call to arms. I don't blame the writers for just saying fine then he's gone hope youre happy.
It’s because Hari Kondabolu’s documentary is that he focuses too much on Indian *Americans* rather than Indians themselves. You’d be surprised that a lot of actual Indians don’t see Apu as a bad stereotype. Only the Indians that live in America ironically. It’s the same thing with Native Americans; most of them don’t find most of the “problematic” stereotypes that offensive. There are a few yes but they are often chill about. It’s the white knights who advocate them without talking to them. Same situation here.
@@ulfberht4431I watch the documentary and he only focused on actors in Hollywood who grew up in America. My Indian colleague immigrated-to-America chuckled when we talk about Apu. He was an Indian who ran a convinient store and Apu is a representation/stereotype of him.
Everyone focuses on Apu, but Sanjay has had it much worse. If anything, a quick Simpsons History on him could be done to at least get him in the limelight.
The episode with Jay is actually a personal favorite of mine because it points out the double standard at play, yes apu is a stereotype but so is Jay; the gentrified American teenager who coasts on trends because he has no roots
@@DDarkestKnight I agree, it could have been done better. Conflict episodes are usually more interesting if the episode ends with both sides of the conflict learning something
My frustration isn't the documentary, but the outcome. I think Simpsons fans are upset because they got rid of a fan favorite character. And I guess, to an extent, yea, I never saw Apu as a stereotype (even though he was). Nor did I ever get offended by Luigi or Fat Tony being from Italy.
The documentary is wrong because it doesn't take into account the fact that the show makes fun of all nationalities, so i don't get why should indians be the exception.
As an Indian person, I have always liked Apu. My family would sometimes talk about how relatable he was to their own life experiences. It's weird but their generation didn't feel that he was offensive. When I was growing up, it didn't occur to me that he was like that.
@shawnhussain7713 yeah, reminds me of the Speedy Gonzales from Looney Tunes situation where his cartoons were being removed for being offensive but Mexican Americans and even Mexicans said they loved the guy. Is he a stereotype? Absolutely, but he was portrayed in a positive light where their more stereotypical features weren't the entire joke itself. Sadly Apu got flanderized as time went on and his later appearances were just all saying some generalization anout Indians and that was the whole joke ("hey, I'm vegetarian, love cows, dance like Bollywood, and talk about Ganesha constantly. Isn't that weird?!")
The reason Simpsons fans hate the documentary is not because they felt it criticized them. It is because once mainstream media started talking about it, it was obvious Apu being scrubbed from the show would be the end result.
Something i always thought was curious about Apu is that he is generally protrayed as one of Homer's closest friends and the people of springfield seem to think highly of him but he was never shown as part of the gang. Its rare that we'd see him at Moe's, joining in with the antics of that core group of Homer, Lenny, Carl and Moe. I think if they're going to refresh the character a bit, he'd have to feel more involved with the larger cast.
I don’t think that’s true, Moe for sure was more involved but Lenny and Carl they almost never got directly involved with anything the Simpsons or Homer did, not even at work. Apu is a far more prominent character than both Lenny and Carl, at least in the classic seasons. I’d argue there wasn’t a (gang) outside of the very short scenes where Homer was at the bar. Plus this isn’t entirely here or there but I hate that the Simpsons have made it that everyone knows everybody, it makes the world feel so much smaller and fake.
Homer, Lenny and Carl all work together, that's why they are at the same bar on a regular basis. Apu is an actual friend of the family, unlike the others who are just homer's coworkers (hence the "Not Lenny" joke).
as someone who's worked alone in food service jobs, I relate to how Apu feels a connection to his store even though it's not a very good work enviornment and the management treats him terribly.
Also anytime someone complains about Apu being a "Stereotype" I am just reminded at how much worse every appearance of a Chinese or Japanese character has had by comparison. They are stereotypes WAY harder and don't get the time of day to get character development. (Akira being the first character that I can think of that has been around for a really long time yet we know basically nothing outside of being that Japanese guy in Springfield.)
Pretty sure sure that a lot of non north american characters on the simpson are basically stereotypes Just look at Luigi or any of the other similar characters
Also people can hate more than one character for the same reason, if you want, you can make a documentary on how the show portays japanese and chinese people
Apu is absolutely an ethnic stereotype... but so is Groundskeeper Willie and he got a centrepiece episode *this* season. The difference is Apu actually got fleshed out into a complex, faceted character before he was dropped rather than staying a lazy one-note joke like Willie.
@@samanthalechatwell genuinely, it’s because folks like Willie have had it easier than other ethnic minorities. Especially since folks like Willie are something known as “white passing” which is a whole thing which I’m not gonna get into now because it’s a RUclips comment and frankly ion wanna. But! With a brisk search online you can learn plenty about the history of race relations especially how they intersect with “whiteness” either way. Have a swell day!
Bring back Apu. I don’t mind if they recast him, but he’s one of the Simpson’s strongest characters and his work and family have too strong connections in the town of Springfield for him to be removed.
I regret checking the comments to see if anyone had beaten me to this, because good lord. But anyway, thank you for summoning an Apu appearance in the latest episode.
i think my favourite counter to the documentary, is hotdiggedydemon's video about why he loves Apu. Its somewhat calm and recounts why Apu exists, the amount of highs he has had compared to other simpsons character, how the show exists to make fun of everybody, but especially the white american. How Apu felt like a scapegoat for racist people being racist to Kandibolu, instead of blaming the racist people. In my personal opinion, I think Kandibolu is wrong in his assessment of Apu. It's moreso a 'Im sorry you feel that way' and not 'Im sorry you felt offended by Apu'. Lets not forget they recasted Carl and Lou, so they had more fitting voice actors instead of a white guy, and yet Apu cant have an indian guy voice him and instead needs to be banished to the shadow realm by writers?
As a 26 year old indian, Apu is awesome, yeah they can overdo it at times, but that"s the Simpsons, they pick on everyone. The only thing that somewhat bugged me was him having 8 kids like BRUH
Recently watched a documentary on an old recording called Brocket 99 making fun of natives. The white guy who made it said it was extremely racist, however everyone he talked to including natives all said it was funny. Comedy always offends someone and bowing to a small minority seems wrong.
@@DDarkestKnightOr why I get offended by "Haha Bri'ish people have bad food, bad teeth and posh words": Why are you going for outdated stereotypes when there's hundreds of *valid* reasons to insult us!
imagine if that man didnt cry about being compared to a store owner. an actual owner that takes care of his kids and pays taxes, loves both his countries.... Apu would still be here.
Now kids, we all know that sometimes, when cartoon characters die, they're back again the very next week. That's why I'm presenting this sworn affidavit that Apu will never ever ever return!
It'll be really hard to recast him, because unlike Carl or Dr Hibbert, his voice is over-the-top stereotypical. They could pull a Squidbillies and just make his voice drastically different from the original; it'd be funny and a very Simpsons thing to do.
my favorite part of Hari's documentary is when he tries to get his parents to hate on Apu and they earnestly don't seem to care or be offended in any way.
Pretty embarrassing that white people who desperately want to remain racist, but will genuinely cry that you called them that because "It's mean and hurts THEIR feelings" (when they love telling marginalized folx "fuck your feelings" constantly), will ALWAYS look for the tokens of the marginalized community who will try to proclaim "I'm [insert marginalized community here] and *I* didn't find this offensive" in a vain hope that the "dominant" society will be more accepting of them as "One of the Good Ones" (which anyone with a brain will tell you is a no-win situation) and prop THEM up as the speakers for the ENTIRE COMMUNITY and reiterate, "See! THESE people aren't offended/easily triggered like the rest of you! So I can still like my racist/misogynistic/homophobic/transphobic thing or BE that and the rest of you can't criticize me!!" It's the same shit I keep seeing from pissy white people (overwhelmingly cishet white men) when you're not all screaming "But *I* don't find this offensive, so it's not!! Comedy doesn't care about YOUR feelings-- but don't you dare call me racist/misogynistic/etc because it's mean and hurts MY feelings which I'm too chickenshit to outright say are more valid than everyone else's!" Congrats on aligning yourselves with the Candice Owenses and Thomas Sowells and Umar Johnsons, the Blaire Whites and Buck Angels and Natalie Wynnes, the Perez Hiltons and Milo Yiannopolises and Jeffree Starrs and James Charleses and the Lindsay Ellises and Classically Abbys and Just Pearly Things of the community y'all! I mean, I know you don't ACTUALLY care because y'all will align yourselves with whoever will agree with you and give the best ego-based head, so you're too up your own asses to see how embarrassing it is... but make no mistake, y'all ARE embarrassing and the rest of us ARE laughing at you and your Pick Mes.
I mean it's representative of an actual phenomenon in terms of how different generations in the diaspora react to things like this. It's worth having kept in. @@Mr.Selyumor
The funny thing about apu is in the last 5 years I’ve heard teenagers used “Baljeet” in place of Apu. You can remove the beloved character, but children will always replace it with another touchstone until they know better.
Funny enough Baljeet was just like Apu but thanks to better writing and having an Indian actor they toned down the racist stereotyping. Now he's better than Apu.
Okay but it’s entirely possible for kids to never hold racist beliefs from the get go if we stop making media that teaches it to them. It’s unnatural to teach things incorrectly and then hope they “know better” in 10 years, just throwing the kids who are victims of the abuse under the bus in the process and dismissing the harm it’s doing to them.
Apu is the epitome of the American dream. An immigrant searching for a better life. He works hard, owns his own business, has a family. It’s inspiring!
5:27 I'm sorry but THAT Mindy Kailing, whose probably done one of the biggest disservice to Indian Americans in recent times? This was obviously before Velma, but holy shit Apu wasn't a fraction of a fraction as offensive to Indians as Velma was lmfao. One was a hard working man who loved his wife, kept in touch with his cultural roots, was a devout believer in his religion, bridged the gaps between Springfieldians and immigrants better than anyone else and despite his short comings, was a beloved character who was built up from nothing. Mindy took a beloved character, broke her down as a self insert and made her overly bitter and hateful to another character on the show who was more akin to how Mindy herself than Velma was.
I didn't know Adi had attempted to help with this issue! I'm kinda saddened that it seems like nothing came from it though. While I get that his aid didn't have sanctioned connections-it was still cool that he not only proposed a solution, and got results from it-still frustrating that it ultimately lead to nothing.
I still can't believe there's still SO many other major issues impacting Americans right now and they want to focus on arguing about a fkn cartoon show. No wonder we don't have a desire to live anymore.
This is why *King of the Hill* pick the right time to go out after years of being jerked around for football. At least if the Cowboys were playing, Hank wouldn’t mind.
This is not some half-forgotten Saturday morning cartoon from the 70s were talking about. This show changed the face of animation and television comedy. Think of how many TV shows of the last 35 years never would’ve aired if it hadn’t been for this one, and not just the one set in New England on the same network.
Okay here’s my Apu comeback pitch. It doesn’t even have to be an Apu centered episode, at the beginning have the Quick E Mart catch on fire. It can either burn down or just bee badly damaged, but either way the fire could be used as an explanation to why Apu sounds different, like that the lung damage he suffered has changed his voice permanently. And with the quick e mart burnt down you can either just completely get rid of it, or just make it so it gets remodeled into a normal grocery store, in a lot of episodes it always weirded me out why they use the convenient store as their main place to get groceries
Sometimes it's just a convenience store but then sometimes they use it as a stand-in for regular grocery stores. It's kinda like how Krusty's just supposed to be the local kid's show host, but sometimes he's treated as a world-famous celebrity and depicted as more of a stand-up comedian, or late night talk-show host or whatever he needs to be in that episode.
@@DDarkestKnight Or... Cue a bunch of people tuning in for the first time in a decade soley so they can complain on social media about it, blasting the show to the highest ratings it's seen since before Season 20.
So I do fall into the stereotype because my father does own a convenience shop but apu is such a lovable character and I have been called apu as a joke, I viewed it as a compliment
Hey Jims, I understand that you didn't want to get too deep into the Apu controversy, but I think that you could have touched more upon how The Problem With Apu documentary was received. I think it's fair to say that it was NOT received well at all. It has really low ratings on IMDb and the trailer for the documentary had a huge amount of dislikes where 90% of the comment section called out and disagreed with Hari Kondabolu. There have also been many RUclips essays on why Apu didn't need to be removed and other South Asian comedians like Akaash Singh have spoken about why Apu was never a problem in the first place. I also disagree with you when you said that you were confused about why so many people reacted negatively to the documentary as I think that there are plenty of valid reasons like: 1) Hari comparing Apu to a minstrel.(By that logic Mario is a minstrel as well) 2) Someone teasing them in school with Apu does not equate to oppression and that it is the Bully's fault for being a jerk, not the character's fault. 3) Hari's treatment of Hank Azaria in this documentary was absolutely inappropriate and disrespectful and borderline cyber bullying. 4) Hari only interviewing people who agreed with him and did not interview a Simpsons fan or an Indian person who likes Apu because that wouldn't fit in his narrative. Etc, etc I can go on. As an Indian American who spent most of his life in India, I can confidently say that Indians either love Apu or don't give a shit. In my opinion, Hari speaks for a very small minority of people who think that this one cartoon character from the 80s is oppressing them. I personally have always loved Apu and would love to see him brought back whether he is voiced By Hank Azaria or not(preferably voiced by Hank Azaria, he made that character). Always love watching your videos Jims.👍
Critics who reviewed the Problem with Apu tended to give it positive reviews, whether they agreed with the discussions or not, because it's a competently-made program. Hari was right when he briefly mentioned that some people were just going to be offended that he talked about racism, no matter what he actually said; mass-disliking the trailer only goes to show that a lot of hate had nothing to do with his actual points. Speaking of which... did *you* watch the documentary? He does talk about the historical context, he did say that children were going to be bullies no matter what, and he interviewed several people who didn't have a single problem with Apu - including his own parents.
@@theMoporterWhy would he when he's more concerned with receiving White Validation by trying to present himself as "One of The Good Ones" who isn't "an easily triggered snowflake who can't take a joke"? People really don't like when it's pointed out, but marginalized people who go out of their way to shit on other marginalized communities, especially their own, in some self-destructive desire to gain the acceptance of the "dominant" society that already hates them for simply existing need to fucking realize that they will never be accepted, and when the first chance to get rid of them comes about-- like, oh say, bills and legislations getting sign into effect that allows the bigots to legally discriminate against them, or to make their existence ILLEGAL and gives law enforcement the right to imprison them and emboldens the bigots to have them arrested... those people they're trying to gain the validation of will jump all over that shit to get rid of you, because they will NEVER accept or embrace you, they will ALWAYS resent you for existing, because the US vs Them mentality runs deep. They will happily do whatever they feel is necessary to get rid of you, and they are extremely calculating in how they will do it - getting rid of the outer fray "extremists" that won't raise too many eyebrows so the token Pick Mes can reassure themselves that they are "safe" because they're "One of the Good Ones", and the bigots will work from the outer circles inwards so that by the time the token is on the chopping block, it's far too late for them.
@@theMoporter Critics are out of touch and rate things based on "the quality of the message" and they determine quality by how much nonsense you can fit into a movie. I've seen critics bash children's movies for "not having realistic lessons on socioeconomics." There's a reason a normal person looks at user scores and not critic scores.
@@MizutamariVTi dont get this response? themoporter wasnt saying that the critics were right, just that the claim that it was badly received isnt entirely accurate
I am so irritated they basically got rid of Apu. I have a lot of East Indian friends who loved apu. They saw him as representing them on tv. The simpsons has sadly gone vanilla and is no longer fun to watch.
I miss him too. Yes, he was an offensive stereotype but so was everyone else on that show. I mean, look at Luigi. He's about as one dimensional as a character can get but not Apu. Apu was easily the most well rounded character in all of Springfield. Immigrant, business owner, vegan, has a phd, volunteer firefighter, hindu, brother, father of 8, husband and most importantly, enjoys building furniture and then discussing where it could be placed in a room. But he's not perfect. He cheated on his wife more than once during a prolonged dry spell in his marriage. He got caught, and worked his ass off tirelessly to win back the trust of his wife. Most people don't bring up this aspect of Apu while defending him because they feel it's counterproductive to the point they're trying to make but I disagree. I feel like it makes him more human since he makes mistakes just like the rest of us, learns from those mistakes and grows as a character. I hope they some day bring him back, even if they end up recasting the voice actor because Springfield just isn't the same without him.
It's kinda lose lose. Because there's so little south asian representation. You either get an imperfect character (that people may use to be racist). Or that character gets erased completely
One thing to add about Apu's controversial history. During the Simpsons Movie advertisement period, a bunch of convenience stores (7'11s I think) around the US were given Kwik-E-Mart aesthetics, including an Apu standee in the store. Many of the store clerks were ethnic and did state their issues with basically trying to work next to a cartoon picture of basically this stereotype. I think this incident was another in why Apu's controversial issues sprouted up much later, because this basically reminded people of a show they didn't think about for so long and "oh yeah, this is a problem."
It's worth noting that while Apu hasn't appeared in season 35 yet, his brother Sanjay was in the premiere I think if they want to stop giving Apu any appearances (even background ones), than they'd do the same for Sanjay, which makes me think he's going to continue to get background appearances. Since he hasn't appeared in 35 at all though, maybe they'll be a lot rarer now. Like only once or twice a season. Although ig it's possible that Homer's Crossing (the S35 premiere) was a hold over from 34 Edit: Yeah he's gotten more background appearances
I think the reason Sanjay appears but not Apu with Season 35 is because Apu's family don't have the controversy applied on them, even though they're Apu's family members. Most outsides of the show only know of Apu and what was mentioned about him in things like the documentary, while all family members, including his wife and kids, are mainly sidelined in the discussion. So because of that, characters like Sanjay dont actually have the baggage that Apu does, and that its still "safe" for them to keep characters like Sanjay around as background characters. The people who will mostly notice, if anything, will mainly just be the fanbase. Not the casual viewer, especially ones who've seen the documentary and news and such and either dont watch the show or havent seen it in years, which is very common.
I would love a Simpsons Histories about Mr Largo. It seems like the show has always treated his sexuality as implicit knowledge, but I have absolutely no clue when they actually introduced that concept.
@@OklahomaBoomer No they've been amazing especially Carl! After that world class episode he had last year they can finally give Dr Hibbert his own episode!
@@OklahomaBoomer They sound just like the characters. Alex got Carl's boring tone down, KMR got Hibbert's laugh down. The voice of Kumiko also did the impossible task of making her worth paying attention to instead of her usual role of cosplay eye candy.
If Apu is offensive, the same can be said for many. Bumblebee man to Hispanics, the mafia and the chef to Italians, Cletus to southern people, and the rampant Japanese stereotypes. The Simpsons gets in trouble with countries when they write an episode about them, such as Brazil. It's built on stereotypes. Apu was a great character. Friendly, sympathetic, hardworking business owner. The fact that Apu became the biggest representation of Indians in the west is a testament to the writing. Why can't non-white characters be allowed to be funny? Apu was not made out of hate. He was once included and equal. A great Indian character snuffed out because bad feelings.
The worst part of the whole deal was seeing people dogpile the people who appeared on The Problem with Apu, blaming them for the show getting rid of Apu altogether. When they never asked for that? Apu was a harmful stereotype of an underrepresented minority, specially due to the voice, there was a possibility of changing him or adapting him, and whichever choice was taken was up to the staff, not the people rightfully calling out the problem. Apu is a beloved character for a lot of people, of course, but sometimes the things we like or are nostalgic for have problematic things, and is important to point them out to avoid those mistakes going foward.
I think it's kind of silly that people got upset over a relatively positive comical portrayal of an Indian in a comedy that regularly picks on, well, everyone.
@Peasham Apu is a staple of his community. He is well loved by almost everyone in Springfield. He is a successful businessman with a large, happy family. He has his quirks but they're only used to add to his charm. Yes, he's somewhat stereotypical, but that's never portrayed as a negative thing.
My mom is named manjula. When the apu gets married episode aired for first time, my dad never laighed so hard in his life. He still laughs whenever apu or his wife is mentioned.
Something strange that's also happened with Apu is that Sanjay seems to have gone the same route as he did with substantially less discourse surrounding him.
Imagine if Scottish people complained as obsessively about Groundskeeper Willie! Would we agree only a Scot can voice a Scottish character, and that he can no longer be made fun of?
That’s all you took from this? That all criticism in invalid bc another ethnic group with different experiences and values doesn’t have issues with a completely different character?
Yes because it’s a legitimate point. The simpsons is all about stereotypes and parody. All groups are mocked - asians, europeans, americans, christians, nerds, rich people, poor people, etc. if apu is so offensive that he needs to be-rewritten then so does almost every character on the show.
People like Hari - people who make a lot of fuss over some actors *doing their job and acting* - is the reason why Hollywood and even America is the way it is today.
I thought the same thing at one point, then I put myself in his shoes. I still disagree with him like Apu and wish he was in the show, but I completely get how he feels.
I’ve always loved Apu, being a vegetarian and Beatles fan! Though I understand why others wouldn’t like his character in its usual iteration. He’s a genius business-owning immigrant living the American dream; I think there’s a lot to do with that!
I miss Apu and I want him back. He was a funny character, as well as having a lot of depth and heartfelt moments. He is one of the few characters who actually changes the status quo, what with getting married and having kids. He has a large family with a lot of interesting story potential (and I think his octuplets are adorable). Whilst I'm not represented by Apu, but I don't think he is that offensive (at least he's a meaningful character who isn't entirely a stereotype). Practically all Simpsons characters are a stereotype of something, and Apu is no exception, but I don't even think he's the worst offender. If other characters were recast with more ethnically apropriate voice actors, why can't Apu get the same treatment?
I'm so glad my Grandmother taught me, "The fastest way to have no proper friends is to try to be friends with everyone." You by definition cannot make everyone happy. It's a pointless exercise in futility.
Sadly this still happens, but instead of fan letters its internet discussion and outrage. The newest Star Wars trilogy was practically guided by Reddit's reaction, hopes, and dreams for each movie.
Instead of keeping Apu as the Kwik-E-Mart guy, they could give him a promotion into a regional manager at Kwik-E-Mart, with a rotating cast of Kwik-E-Mart employees.
In an interview with USA today, creator Matt Groening said "I think it's a time in our culture where people love to pretend to be offended." in response to the criticism of Apu.
I remember when the controversy happened, my friend and I tried really hard to come up with something that could keep him on the show. Eventually, we came up with the idea that he's kept up the stereotypical accent for years to keep the status quo. The episode could explore keeping up appearances, getting lost in others' opinions, as well as his belief that losing his accent was a slight towards his heritage. He'd come to accept that he was who he was, and decide to talk in his more "natural" voice moving forward, with a new VA. Years later it sounds cheezy, but it's better than what they've done so far.
Part way through the video, as a first generation ( first generation to be born here) I can explain why I hated the documentary so much. I am Mexican American, so I can’t speak about Apu but the Bumblebee Man always made me laugh because I knew what they were making fun of. I did relate a little to Apu growing up in a family that was quite not American , I am Americanized. He never seemed to be portrayed as incompetent nor stupid like the rest of the cast. The documentary felt like he wanted to speak for people who didn’t actually have a problem with it. Ruining a good character. Plus if anything I knew a poor kid named Homer at the peak of Simpson popularity. Now that kid had to deal with bullying.
as an Indian who loves Apu I just think it's important to acknowledge that Indians are not a hive mind who all agree that Apu is offensive. I know that seems obvious but a lot of the people who thought getting rid of Apu would be good for the whole Indian community really don't seem to get that they're just appealing to a certain sect of us.
I am of partial Middle Eastern descent and was bullied for it growing up. I also love Apu. People who get offended like this, in all my research and experience, frankly tend to be insecure and spiritually hollow. They have bigger fish to fry but project their problems on social piñatas to beat.
@@MayorOfEarth79The thing is they don't care that he's a Simpsons fan. They're just going to say he isn't so that can strawman him. They don't care about accuracy.
I see this a bit differently. Like any good comedy, the Simpsons did not try to be an influence. It stayed within its lane and did not try to openly blast anyone to change opinions. Hari forced the Simpsons to have this power of influence. He did not see a comedy, he saw a tool for change. The writers, never having this power before, tried their best to regulate it by not touching Apu at all. Hari won, he took away a beloved character and forever altered how society views comedy. Let's hope he's happy with this outcome
oh man you've got me all hyped up. i think i've just quietly accepted that apu has been written out of the show at this point but now i really want to see what they can do with his character. the other side of the coin of the solution that nobody wants is that it's also the solution that's least likely to receive backlash and i am cynical enough to believe that this is the path the mouse/writers will take. god i hate that non-response with marge and lisa, they'd be better off not addressing at all. anyhow, from one simpsons fan to another, this was a really well-written video. well done.
Heres the thing. You can believe that there are hug problems with how Apu was portrayed. You can believe those improved later but still weren't actually fixed. And you can also believe the solution to remove Indian representation from the show entirely is not the right one. All that can be true and a consistent worldview.
Can I suggest a video exploring what Springfield looks like? It's a crazy town. There's a desert, a Mount Carlmore (are we treating that as canon), and a tire fire. And yet we know so little for sure. We know King Toot is next to Moe's and Flanders is next to Homer and that's about it. What would a map of Springfield be like? Maybe the opening credits give us more clues.
i watched this video the day it dropped and I just got it recommended again and seeing that "1 month ago" gave me whiplash. i cant believe it has been over a month
Nope. People took offense to EVERYTHING in the Simpsons back in the day. Politicians were up in arms at rallies, parents were furious, the whole works. Homer and Bart in PARTICULAR were considered offensive due to their portrayals as deeply flawed people who had a lot of problems interacting with a society that fucked them up in kind, in a world where sitcoms mostly dealt with standard aspirational All-American superdads and their rambunctious but still controllable children. "But the ratings back then were skyrocketing!" you might think, and yeah. Because ratings aren't a measure of quality, just viewer retention. Analytics don't care about emotions or feelings. People will watch the show to make informed derogatory remarks about it, and you just have to look at the usenet discussions about episode quality to see that clear as day. I don't get why people think no one had a problem with anything else in the show. When the series began, the biggest controversy at the time was people finding offense with LITERALLY EVERYTHING about it because it was so groundbreakingly cynical to deliver its core messages of "The world is fucked up, and there's a good chance YOU are fucked up by it and don't even know it, but that doesn't mean you can't find happiness."
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
I made this video because I am frustrated at the outcome of the Apu discussion... That we are in this permanent state of limbo where the show just doesn't officially talk about it or make a final decision on the character. A bunch of stuff happened and Apu may or may not exist going forward. Who knows? The Simpsons certainly won't talk about it. It's like they fumbled the ball on the last two times they addressed it, and it feels like the show just wants to run away. So we're stuck in this vague unsatisfying outcome.
I also wanted to approach this from the perspective of a Simpsons fan, since that's who I am. I didn't really want to make a video summarizing all of Hari's arguments because that is what the doc is for and he doesn't need me speaking for him. Go watch the doc, I promise it is not that scary. I walked away from the doc kinda confused why some Simpsons fans took the criticism so personally. Or maybe not "personally" but were that mad about his criticism toward the show. So I kinda wanted to explore that a little.
I'm sure I misunderstood some stuff in this vid or didn't clarify points properly (this is waaaaay not my expertise) so let me know where I might have goofed up. 👍
the state of limbo thing is a recurring problem with the Simpsons, it feels like they're always too scared to make any sort of change or decision, I remember times when it felt like they were going to try more ambitious stuff but chickened out and went back to the status quo because they're afraid of alienating the audience even though I think most of the audience would be pretty open to change
they know that either decision will alienate some viewers, and they don't want to make that call. i say, get over it. the documentary is another virtue signalled, over analyzed, and too much feelings when it comes to comedy. apu did not hurt indians more than indians hurt people. maybe apu should be a telemarketing scammer or something more akin to amercians interactions with indians. there's no room for feelings in comedy.
Good video as usual.
I really wish you explained why some people consider him a sterotype. Springfield is a town full of sterotypes, what makes Apu so different?
@@christianhunt7382 Yeah, this Indian-American guy talking about his experience is clearly just virtue signalling.
I thought it was kinda cool that Apu was playable in Hit n Run game as a non Simpsons family member but essentially a main character
Before the whole controversy, Apu really was one of the most prominent characters, is interesting how he managed to evolve so much in a show that was constantly strangling Teh few thing it give to others, but now everything was just lose I guess
just goes to show how popular and iconic he used to be, considered by many as one of the most important characters outside the Simpsons family
The social cohesion of 90s America was a sense of peace that we're never getting back. Yes I know HnR is from 2003 but it's a vestige of pure 90s spirit and the 2000s hysteria hadn't totally set in yet
The only ones who care are SJW scolds.
@@seronymus it probably seem peaceful from a privileged position, a negative peace as MLK Jr would describe
"We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!" - Simpsons staff on the Apu problem.
Lazyness and lack of courage are the plight of our age
That's a constant with Simpsons writers, everytime they are challenged they just bail or mock the criticis they don't even TRY to get better
@@ironmaster6496 *modern simpson writers
They'll get shit from either side no matter what they do, so best to make the compromise that makes no one happy, rather than making one side incredibly angry and the other side being still unsatisfied.
Bruh, it sooo obvious they decided not to recast and let the fans get upset to show the comedian who complain about it. That outside of him, no one really care
I think the knock-on effect of losing Apu is that it highlights how much worldbuilding was contingent on these secondary characters. We saw that back in the Scully era with what was lost with the removal of Hutz and Troy, and in the last 10 years we've seen the impacts of losing Edna and Apu, along with the increasing scaling back of Harry Shearer's characters to cover for his declining voice (he's in his 80s now). It makes the world of Springfield feel oddly empty.
Yeah, it's not just that I miss Apu. I miss the Kwik-e-Mart. I miss the interactions with Snake. I miss the bullies shoplifting bear. I feel like the writers have tried to pivot the "quirky small business clerk" character to Comic Book Guy, which has had... odd results, to say the least.
Would you believe Kumiko has had a grand total of 4 voices appearances.@@ethansloan
The attempts to develop CBG would at least be better if they consistently used Kumiko, but she's made a grand total of 3 voiced appearances since her introduction an entire decade ago.@loan
@@rainspectre3153 I mean, she's basically Mandula, then, right? She didn't have lines all that regularly (once a season or so?), and definitely got less character work in the Apu spotlight episodes than Kumiko gets in the CBG ones.
i genuinely don't know what they're gonna do with all of harry's characters if the show is still running when he passes, given that he does so many of them.
"What does the future hold for Apu? Heh heh, let's just say we've got a few ideas up our sleeve."
"Like what?"
"Um...I'd rather not get into it right now."
"Why not?"
"All right. We don't have any ideas for the future. We've got nothing. Happy?"
"No."
Sounds like Bud Light given the whole events of the last couple of years. Too cowardly to even stand behind one ad read.
@@richardarriaga6271tbf, bud light took a crowd that isn't their highest percentage of buyers and tried to reorient their branding to support something their crowd. almost cartoonishly, is against and expected it to go well. If it'd been underwear, food, a store, etc etc. There would've not been an issue. Though... having the ad involve a bathtub was definitely a weird take 😆
LOL I literally watched that clip about an hour ago.
Best.
Comment.
Ever!! 😂❤❤❤
a few ideas up your sleeve? at this time of day? at this time of year? in this part of the country? localized entirely within your writing room?
yes.
can i see it?
no.
Anyone else click on this expecting a video about Apu's appearences in the flash-forward episodes that take place in the future of the Simpsons characters?
That’s what it was expecting.
Yes and to be honest I would have much rather had 20 minutes of wild speculation based on split second freeze frames that the whole walking on eggshells around a sensitivity issue.
I think the vast majority of people had no problem with Apu, Family Guy and South Park have overtly racist jokes in every other episode. They're tolerate on the basis that they're jokes.
The Simpsons on the other hand never really aimed to cause offense, and I think we have to cut it some slack.
On Family Guy the shock humour premise allows them to make overtly racist observations and hide behind the genre.
The Simpsons takes a more honest approach to joke writing and I think the majority of people would agree that although you could be offended by some of their jokes or characters, that wasn't ever the point of the joke.
@@SineN0mine3 That's why I like what the show has done. They aren't making a show of being ashamed of what they did with him, because they aren't ashamed. It was honest. However, they didn't feel they could continue and feel comfortable in it, so they stopped. They have plenty of other stories to tell.
I just watched this video, so I can look at the comment section.
It is just an echo chamber of people agreeing with themselves 😂
@@mitchconner403 Thanks Mitch, very cool!
"Apu died going back to his home planet"
here, problem solved
You mean India?
India is another planet?! Bro you learn something new everyday!!
@@snowyyzoedidn’t you know that? What a wuss.
When Apu isn't in a scene, the other characters should be asking "Where's Apu?"
"APU'S DEAD!!!!!"
For maximum irony, I went to school with a second gen Indian student with the name Kent Brockman. Born the same year as Simpsons premier.
I guess he had a white dad? That's amazing though was he a Simpsons fan?
@@seronymus It's actually not that uncommon in India for people to have completely European sounding names, and you can blame the British for that.
@seronymus unfortunately not really. He hated the jokes. Tweens are awful.
@@OtakuUnitedStudio rare British W
For maximum lameness you completely made that up.
Apu was overall one of the most well rounded people in Springfield. From his origins as just a convenience store clerk to becoming a full fledged character with more backstory than most of the regulars on the show that wasn't the Simpsons themselves.
Jim’s absolutely right, it’s easy for us to be defensive when for many of us, he‘a just another friend that we’re happy to say “hello” to.
only to be ruined by a talentless hack of a comedian who one of his biggest exploits was ruin castlevania.
Let us admit, even Doom became problematic in the eyes of these people.
@@Bitterman5868 Sheesh, you are a grouch.
@@Bitterman5868 Think we could loose the cynicism just a bit?
@@benmalsky9834 is not cynical if it's the truth.
Apu is almost never portrayed negatively. He's a hard working, devoted, social man with life, love, an education, and a family. Apu is probably the best character in the Simpsons.
He did cheat on Manjula tho. Not an issue of stereotypes mind you as it could happen to anyone.
He tries to sell expired food and drinks to his customers though
too add onto what everyone else said he’s still a stereotypical convenience store clerk tho 😭
@@irenestylist5455what's the problem there? It is a stereotype yes, but Simpsons is a parody of America. It's so stupid, what was actually bad about Apu compared to any other character? Are non white characters not allowed unless they are flawless heroes or what?
Because Apu for a long time was the only Indian character on a major TV program
Remember the citizenship test episode and how he really struggles with what his parents would think and forsaking his culture and religion. Yes its done in a silly cartoon way but it leaves the right impression.
I always felt like it would have been far better that Apu became Bart's new 4th grade teacher rather than the canon soppy Flanders teacher arc of which nothing came of it
And that new lady...whatshername?
Ms Payton can be funny when she’s struggling like a MF to not offend anyone lol there’s a few jokes where she’s stumbling over her words and it’s really funny
No Mrs. Payton is so much better. It's too bad that Kerry Washington is so expensive.
Honestly I like that idea. I feel like both of them would’ve really liked the change-Apu getting out of his old routine and Bart having a less harsh teacher who he knows fairly well
The documentary is wrong becaude it doesn't take into account the fact that the show makes fun of all nationalities, so i don't get why should indias be the exception.
Come on. Apu may or may not have been known as “The Fifth Beatle.” Let’s give him a break.
Apu: For no reason....here's Apu
Simpsons Staff: *GET OUT OF HERE!!!!*
correction it should be there WAS apu
Marge: go back to your own country 😡
GET THAT CAT OUTTA THE WAY
THOSE WERE THE DAYS
"Where Apu becomes a successful businessman"
Apu IS a successful business owner in Springfield.
A manager at a convenience store isn’t a successful business owner, quit whining.
@@autismobinch135 he makes so much money he can support his big family while getting constantly robbed and he get a lot of regular custommer he's indeed a successfull business owner
fr he was the best business owner that Springfield could get (he even moved the plot of this show and the hit and run game on GC)
@@autismobinch135He's not just the manager. He owns the place. Sure it's part of a corporate chain, but there's a massive difference between managing a 7/11 and owning a 7/11.
@@autismobinch135 Apu is more successful than the main character of the show, and most of the other regular characters. He also has one of the strongest moral backbones in the entire show. Does that not count for anything? He's probably one of the best role models in the whole cast
Genuinely can’t believe the whole problem with Apu fiasco was over half a decade ago 😑
Man. The early pandemic basically felt like time paused.
Anything pre-2020 feels ages ago. To be fair, that's probably cause of the change in decade, and the pandemic definitely worsened that. Curse you, natural flow of time! Make more sense in relation to current world events!
"I have to go now, my planet needs me."
- Apu Nahasapeemapetilon
Apu died on his way to his home planet.
@@Nomed38 nononono, unlike poochie he actually made it to his home planet.
@@thundergaming155Where he then died.
The way the "No Good Read" scene is framed is so freaking corny too. The weirdly specific dialogue and Apu picture frame to throw any level of subtlety it could've had out the window, to Lisa and Marge solemnly staring at the camera in a way that feels like it's desperately trying to get those sympathy points. And it's all played dead seriously.
And the fact it's yet to actually come to fruition only makes the scene worse in hindsight.
Great coverage of the whole situation. Here's to hoping we haven't seen the end of Apu.
Makes me wonder why Lisa has a frame of Apu on her bedside.
Forced and contrived.
It’s a reason I (and I’m sure many others) stopped watching a while ago and just rewatch the earlier seasons instead. We know The Simpsons now isn’t the same show as it was, the characters aren’t the same characters, and the writers don’t seem to have even watched the earlier Simpsons, they certainly don’t understand the earlier writers’ vision for a lot of things. So I just see it as the Simpsons already ended years and years ago, this scene was very cringy and it only serves to disappoint. No point getting mad at something pretending to be the Simpsons that we know isn’t the Simpsons anyway, no matter how much it pretends it is.
No Good Read was the newest episode I watched for years, since it was so awful I stopped watching any Simpsons episodes not on DVD ever since (except for that Primal episode I got tricked into watching).
What really doesn't help is Lisa and Marge's No Good Read ending was some B plot about outdated literature that felt like it was going somewhere.
I'm not defending modern Simpsons, but the point of the scene was to have no subtlety lol. The lack of it is the entire joke.
Considering how Krusty's role as Springfield's congressman is not touched upon since he won Springfield's congressional district I would love to see Apu defeat Krusty and Apu becomes Springfield's new congressman.
Could roll it into a hackneyed Krusty as Trump-like figure parody easily too. Seems like something they'd do
@bluecanine3374 No, Krusty has actual morals. Lines he won’t cross.
@@bluecanine3374 Can we please not touch Trump like plots?! I understand if it has to be done (though it really does not have to be), but it really doesn't result in anything most people don't want.
Apu should be used to wrap up every dropped story beat. He should leave his family, get married to Maya, and adopt Ling Bouvier.
What would they do with apu as a congressman exactly?
By removing Apu, Simpsons effectively got rid of the most prominent coloured character on the show.
Which should be, and is starting to be, the wake up call that they need to vastly work on and include more of the other characters of color in the show.
that would of never happened if cry baby didnt start complaining about a problem NOBODY TALKED ABOUT. he wanted his 5 minutes of fame, got it and successfully killed off apu. nice.
he was fine without the documentary. all it highlighted was south asians have a rough time being called apu in america but "woke" brigade lol. cringed @@FelicityGemini
@@FelicityGemini 🍼👶🏼
This thread became reductive very quickly
Apu has always struck me as a character skating on an incredibly thin line between “laughing at” and “laughing with.” If you’re a serious fan I think you’ve grown to love all the characters so much that you can’t quite see their flaws. Like how Marge sees Homer different than Patti and Selma. They both see Homer accurately, but their conclusions are filtered through their degree of personal affection.
I think that as many others have mentioned the show is full of stereotypes but in many ways Apu was seen as a smart responsible man who worked but saw the flaws of the US system
People have a right to complain and to improve the show but removing apu was just weak.
The show is full of gay stereotypes and no one complains. Honestly often those jokes reflect on my own experiences and serve as a mirror for our reality. I can imagine the same has happened with apu
@@valetech8751 As a gay man, I have a lot of problems with the way Smithers has been used to depict homosexuality over the years. I wouldn’t want him pulled from the show, but I think he’s been a harmful character in some ways. So I wouldn’t agree that Apu is the “only” character who has been singled out or even deserves to be singled out. I think it’s perfectly alright to reflect on the flaws of a show we all love.
First off thanks for answering. I used to watch your channel a lot. Apparently lots of people seem to think you are too conservative for a queer person.
As a queer person as well i think it's important to have a wide range of views and opinions.
To be honest smithers bothers me less then for example 'julio' the latino gay man. As a latino and queer i do think his portrayal is rather flat and stereotypical. So i wouldn't say i enjoy his character.
On the other hand it's part of the tapestry of the simpsons that makes the show so unique. So maybe we should have a few more queer centric episodes that explore those dynamics.
None the less i wouldn't want julio or smithers to be radically changed. Maybe adding more depth to their characters for example would be interesting
I think it's funny how the writers solution was "you don't like him? okay you'll never see him again!"
Except we did see him again. Multiple times.
"No thank you, don't come again."
honestly that feels the best course. If the fans think it was "correct" to voice how offensive he was and call to arms. I don't blame the writers for just saying fine then he's gone hope youre happy.
It's kinda funny that they did still bring him... just without his voice.
It wasnt fans though it was one guy who happened to get picked on in a specific way@@BigGreen343
I will NEVER understand how the solution to "bad indian representation" was "no indian representation"
The Apu situation is very dumb
You stupid? It's not 1990 anymore, Indian-Americans do have a lot of representation in various media today, Apu isn't needed for that XD
It’s because Hari Kondabolu’s documentary is that he focuses too much on Indian *Americans* rather than Indians themselves. You’d be surprised that a lot of actual Indians don’t see Apu as a bad stereotype. Only the Indians that live in America ironically.
It’s the same thing with Native Americans; most of them don’t find most of the “problematic” stereotypes that offensive. There are a few yes but they are often chill about. It’s the white knights who advocate them without talking to them.
Same situation here.
@@ulfberht4431I watch the documentary and he only focused on actors in Hollywood who grew up in America. My Indian colleague immigrated-to-America chuckled when we talk about Apu. He was an Indian who ran a convinient store and Apu is a representation/stereotype of him.
@@ulfberht4431 ya u can make funny of anyone as long as they’re white. Everyone else is off limits
Everyone focuses on Apu, but Sanjay has had it much worse. If anything, a quick Simpsons History on him could be done to at least get him in the limelight.
The winning script for the Apu contest was Apu becoming a successful business man...isn't he that already?
My first thought too. I think it was probably “successful non convince store” business man.
It's almost like the people complaining don't know what they want. 🤔
Probably not that successful if he keeps getting attacked by Snake and didn't manage more stores.
@@richardarriaga6271 Snake keeps coming back because Kwik-e-Mart is so successful. Can't milk a dry cow.
@@katlicks Seems to be the trend. Just look at how the poorest countries have the worst security.
The episode with Jay is actually a personal favorite of mine because it points out the double standard at play, yes apu is a stereotype but so is Jay; the gentrified American teenager who coasts on trends because he has no roots
The problem with that episode instead of finding a middle ground or giving Apu character growth they say Apu was right and Jay is never seen again
@@DDarkestKnight I agree, it could have been done better. Conflict episodes are usually more interesting if the episode ends with both sides of the conflict learning something
My frustration isn't the documentary, but the outcome. I think Simpsons fans are upset because they got rid of a fan favorite character. And I guess, to an extent, yea, I never saw Apu as a stereotype (even though he was). Nor did I ever get offended by Luigi or Fat Tony being from Italy.
They're alot of stupid Simpsons fans, alot of them haven't watched the show since long before Apu became a background character.
@@DDarkestKnight Ya, I didn't stop watching the show, but I do miss the character.
The documentary is wrong because it doesn't take into account the fact that the show makes fun of all nationalities, so i don't get why should indians be the exception.
Well honestly I think just about every Simpsons character is some kind of stereotype so it's odd to single out apu imo
It would be hard to get offended at Fat Tony, he's hilarious. S tier side character.
As an Indian person, I have always liked Apu. My family would sometimes talk about how relatable he was to their own life experiences.
It's weird but their generation didn't feel that he was offensive. When I was growing up, it didn't occur to me that he was like that.
Apu helped make foreigners less scary
You can just see hes a guy
I like Apu
Bro I’m Pakistani American. Apu is literally every desi guy at the 7/11. It was never a bad stereotype lol. We love Apu man!
"I'm part of the group being depicted here and I didn't know it was offensive until someone else told me".
Huh. That really gets the noggin joggin.
@shawnhussain7713 yeah, reminds me of the Speedy Gonzales from Looney Tunes situation where his cartoons were being removed for being offensive but Mexican Americans and even Mexicans said they loved the guy.
Is he a stereotype? Absolutely, but he was portrayed in a positive light where their more stereotypical features weren't the entire joke itself.
Sadly Apu got flanderized as time went on and his later appearances were just all saying some generalization anout Indians and that was the whole joke ("hey, I'm vegetarian, love cows, dance like Bollywood, and talk about Ganesha constantly. Isn't that weird?!")
@@DerEchteJimSomeone out to make a name name for themselves and create more work in consultation either for themselves or others.
The reason Simpsons fans hate the documentary is not because they felt it criticized them. It is because once mainstream media started talking about it, it was obvious Apu being scrubbed from the show would be the end result.
That and how much it argued in bad faith
I like how you assume your opinion matters in the discussion of racism just because you like a cartoon
@@LeftPhilip What on earth are you talking about? Huh?
Something i always thought was curious about Apu is that he is generally protrayed as one of Homer's closest friends and the people of springfield seem to think highly of him but he was never shown as part of the gang. Its rare that we'd see him at Moe's, joining in with the antics of that core group of Homer, Lenny, Carl and Moe. I think if they're going to refresh the character a bit, he'd have to feel more involved with the larger cast.
I don’t think that’s true, Moe for sure was more involved but Lenny and Carl they almost never got directly involved with anything the Simpsons or Homer did, not even at work. Apu is a far more prominent character than both Lenny and Carl, at least in the classic seasons. I’d argue there wasn’t a (gang) outside of the very short scenes where Homer was at the bar.
Plus this isn’t entirely here or there but I hate that the Simpsons have made it that everyone knows everybody, it makes the world feel so much smaller and fake.
That's partly because Apu works much more/harder than any of those guys
Homer, Lenny and Carl all work together, that's why they are at the same bar on a regular basis. Apu is an actual friend of the family, unlike the others who are just homer's coworkers (hence the "Not Lenny" joke).
as someone who's worked alone in food service jobs, I relate to how Apu feels a connection to his store even though it's not a very good work enviornment and the management treats him terribly.
Management treats him terribly? Brother he is the franchisee, he is the management.
It would be hilarious if this season ends with an Apu episode after you finally made this video.
Also anytime someone complains about Apu being a "Stereotype" I am just reminded at how much worse every appearance of a Chinese or Japanese character has had by comparison. They are stereotypes WAY harder and don't get the time of day to get character development. (Akira being the first character that I can think of that has been around for a really long time yet we know basically nothing outside of being that Japanese guy in Springfield.)
So what's you're saying is that haven't watched the Simpsons in 20 years lol
Pretty sure sure that a lot of non north american characters on the simpson are basically stereotypes
Just look at Luigi or any of the other similar characters
Also people can hate more than one character for the same reason, if you want, you can make a documentary on how the show portays japanese and chinese people
Akira has the "excuse" of being a guest character.
@@rainspectre3153 Except not really, as that was only done ONCE. All other times it has been Hank Azaria.
Apu is absolutely an ethnic stereotype... but so is Groundskeeper Willie and he got a centrepiece episode *this* season. The difference is Apu actually got fleshed out into a complex, faceted character before he was dropped rather than staying a lazy one-note joke like Willie.
Seriously, you could totally argue that the depiction of a Willie is far more offensive, yet no one does.... I wonder why..
@@samanthalechat Willie isn't the right color for people to care.
@@samanthalechatwell genuinely, it’s because folks like Willie have had it easier than other ethnic minorities. Especially since folks like Willie are something known as “white passing” which is a whole thing which I’m not gonna get into now because it’s a RUclips comment and frankly ion wanna. But! With a brisk search online you can learn plenty about the history of race relations especially how they intersect with “whiteness” either way. Have a swell day!
Bring back Apu. I don’t mind if they recast him, but he’s one of the Simpson’s strongest characters and his work and family have too strong connections in the town of Springfield for him to be removed.
Who needs more of Apu?
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I regret checking the comments to see if anyone had beaten me to this, because good lord. But anyway, thank you for summoning an Apu appearance in the latest episode.
Why say anything at all?
I’m definitely one of those people who just saw Apu as well-rounded character, that to me, he was just as real and relatable as anyone in real life.
i think my favourite counter to the documentary, is hotdiggedydemon's video about why he loves Apu. Its somewhat calm and recounts why Apu exists, the amount of highs he has had compared to other simpsons character, how the show exists to make fun of everybody, but especially the white american. How Apu felt like a scapegoat for racist people being racist to Kandibolu, instead of blaming the racist people.
In my personal opinion, I think Kandibolu is wrong in his assessment of Apu. It's moreso a 'Im sorry you feel that way' and not 'Im sorry you felt offended by Apu'. Lets not forget they recasted Carl and Lou, so they had more fitting voice actors instead of a white guy, and yet Apu cant have an indian guy voice him and instead needs to be banished to the shadow realm by writers?
As a 26 year old indian, Apu is awesome, yeah they can overdo it at times, but that"s the Simpsons, they pick on everyone. The only thing that somewhat bugged me was him having 8 kids like BRUH
Apu FUCKS
Recently watched a documentary on an old recording called Brocket 99 making fun of natives. The white guy who made it said it was extremely racist, however everyone he talked to including natives all said it was funny. Comedy always offends someone and bowing to a small minority seems wrong.
Cletus has like 44 kids (and married his sister). Yet we don't see the Redneck community complaining.
@@kevrimney738can’t make everyone happy, it is what it is
I guess you didn’t watch this part of the video 14:46 😂
I can say from experience. They would have found something else to make fun of him for.
Never underestimate a bullys ability to find material to work with.
Good they should make fun of him for something other than being Indian. There's a million reasons to laugh at Homer and Moe
@@DDarkestKnightOr why I get offended by "Haha Bri'ish people have bad food, bad teeth and posh words": Why are you going for outdated stereotypes when there's hundreds of *valid* reasons to insult us!
@@rubywest5166 americans mocking anyone's food will always be hilarious to me
@@DDarkestKnight they would still use Indian jokes, Apu just wouldn't be the first thing they reach for.
This while situation makes me want to scream every time it's brought up.
imagine if that man didnt cry about being compared to a store owner. an actual owner that takes care of his kids and pays taxes, loves both his countries.... Apu would still be here.
Assuming we all survive
@@FelicityGemini A fictional character not being in a show barley anybody watches anymore effects no one
This guy is cool.
Love your videos
Apu died on the way back to his home planet.
Now kids, we all know that sometimes, when cartoon characters die, they're back again the very next week. That's why I'm presenting this sworn affidavit that Apu will never ever ever return!
It'll be really hard to recast him, because unlike Carl or Dr Hibbert, his voice is over-the-top stereotypical. They could pull a Squidbillies and just make his voice drastically different from the original; it'd be funny and a very Simpsons thing to do.
my favorite part of Hari's documentary is when he tries to get his parents to hate on Apu and they earnestly don't seem to care or be offended in any way.
He's just a little punk who's exploiting Indians more than Apu is
I can’t believe he even left that segment in.
Pretty embarrassing that white people who desperately want to remain racist, but will genuinely cry that you called them that because "It's mean and hurts THEIR feelings" (when they love telling marginalized folx "fuck your feelings" constantly), will ALWAYS look for the tokens of the marginalized community who will try to proclaim "I'm [insert marginalized community here] and *I* didn't find this offensive" in a vain hope that the "dominant" society will be more accepting of them as "One of the Good Ones" (which anyone with a brain will tell you is a no-win situation) and prop THEM up as the speakers for the ENTIRE COMMUNITY and reiterate, "See! THESE people aren't offended/easily triggered like the rest of you! So I can still like my racist/misogynistic/homophobic/transphobic thing or BE that and the rest of you can't criticize me!!"
It's the same shit I keep seeing from pissy white people (overwhelmingly cishet white men) when you're not all screaming "But *I* don't find this offensive, so it's not!! Comedy doesn't care about YOUR feelings-- but don't you dare call me racist/misogynistic/etc because it's mean and hurts MY feelings which I'm too chickenshit to outright say are more valid than everyone else's!"
Congrats on aligning yourselves with the Candice Owenses and Thomas Sowells and Umar Johnsons, the Blaire Whites and Buck Angels and Natalie Wynnes, the Perez Hiltons and Milo Yiannopolises and Jeffree Starrs and James Charleses and the Lindsay Ellises and Classically Abbys and Just Pearly Things of the community y'all! I mean, I know you don't ACTUALLY care because y'all will align yourselves with whoever will agree with you and give the best ego-based head, so you're too up your own asses to see how embarrassing it is... but make no mistake, y'all ARE embarrassing and the rest of us ARE laughing at you and your Pick Mes.
@@cannibalisticrequiemhello self loathing whitey
I mean it's representative of an actual phenomenon in terms of how different generations in the diaspora react to things like this. It's worth having kept in. @@Mr.Selyumor
Fans are feeling mighty blue
It's a shame what stereotypes can do
For racial reasons no more Apu
These are the daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaays!
They should try Zach Hadel's idea of killing off Apu and replacing him with a white guy called Garu
"Apu, why do you talk like that?"
"I DOONIT KNUUUU WUTYUR TUL-KING ABUUUUUUTT"
Imagine Zach's nasally wheeze guest starring unannounced in an episode
Who?
Don't worry about it@@skibot9974
@@skibot9974hes a prominent internet animator who recently made a show for adult swim (smiling friends)
The funny thing about apu is in the last 5 years I’ve heard teenagers used “Baljeet” in place of Apu. You can remove the beloved character, but children will always replace it with another touchstone until they know better.
Funny enough Baljeet was just like Apu but thanks to better writing and having an Indian actor they toned down the racist stereotyping. Now he's better than Apu.
@@DDarkestKnight nope.
Imagine growing up and being represented by Velma
The main differences are that 1) Baljeet is voiced by an Indian-American man, and 2) there was more than one Indian character on TV in 2007.
Okay but it’s entirely possible for kids to never hold racist beliefs from the get go if we stop making media that teaches it to them. It’s unnatural to teach things incorrectly and then hope they “know better” in 10 years, just throwing the kids who are victims of the abuse under the bus in the process and dismissing the harm it’s doing to them.
Scratchy: Lemonade?
Itchy: Please.
Scratchy: I made it just for you.
Itchy: You're my best friend.
They should just make Apu say, “I have to go now, my planet needs me” and then make him fly away
I think there might have legitimately been something in the works before the world descended into chaos in 2020
And they use that as an excuse to ignore him and think everybody else would just forget.
@@Attmay bullseye
Apu is the epitome of the American dream. An immigrant searching for a better life. He works hard, owns his own business, has a family. It’s inspiring!
5:27 I'm sorry but THAT Mindy Kailing, whose probably done one of the biggest disservice to Indian Americans in recent times? This was obviously before Velma, but holy shit Apu wasn't a fraction of a fraction as offensive to Indians as Velma was lmfao. One was a hard working man who loved his wife, kept in touch with his cultural roots, was a devout believer in his religion, bridged the gaps between Springfieldians and immigrants better than anyone else and despite his short comings, was a beloved character who was built up from nothing. Mindy took a beloved character, broke her down as a self insert and made her overly bitter and hateful to another character on the show who was more akin to how Mindy herself than Velma was.
I didn't know Adi had attempted to help with this issue! I'm kinda saddened that it seems like nothing came from it though. While I get that his aid didn't have sanctioned connections-it was still cool that he not only proposed a solution, and got results from it-still frustrating that it ultimately lead to nothing.
Apu didn't need to die, the Simpsons did.
Very poignant. It's a clear sign that the show should be retired.
I still can't believe there's still SO many other major issues impacting Americans right now and they want to focus on arguing about a fkn cartoon show. No wonder we don't have a desire to live anymore.
@@RT-qd8yl ruclips.net/video/xVzK79undb0/видео.html
This is why *King of the Hill* pick the right time to go out after years of being jerked around for football. At least if the Cowboys were playing, Hank wouldn’t mind.
This is not some half-forgotten Saturday morning cartoon from the 70s were talking about. This show changed the face of animation and television comedy. Think of how many TV shows of the last 35 years never would’ve aired if it hadn’t been for this one, and not just the one set in New England on the same network.
Okay here’s my Apu comeback pitch. It doesn’t even have to be an Apu centered episode, at the beginning have the Quick E Mart catch on fire. It can either burn down or just bee badly damaged, but either way the fire could be used as an explanation to why Apu sounds different, like that the lung damage he suffered has changed his voice permanently. And with the quick e mart burnt down you can either just completely get rid of it, or just make it so it gets remodeled into a normal grocery store, in a lot of episodes it always weirded me out why they use the convenient store as their main place to get groceries
Sometimes it's just a convenience store but then sometimes they use it as a stand-in for regular grocery stores.
It's kinda like how Krusty's just supposed to be the local kid's show host, but sometimes he's treated as a world-famous celebrity and depicted as more of a stand-up comedian, or late night talk-show host or whatever he needs to be in that episode.
Cue a bunch of people whining about wanting his original voice back
Better explanation for a voice change than Dr. Hibbert
It's because shopping at MonstroMart is a baffling ordeal.
@@DDarkestKnight Or... Cue a bunch of people tuning in for the first time in a decade soley so they can complain on social media about it, blasting the show to the highest ratings it's seen since before Season 20.
So I do fall into the stereotype because my father does own a convenience shop but apu is such a lovable character and I have been called apu as a joke, I viewed it as a compliment
Hey Jims, I understand that you didn't want to get too deep into the Apu controversy, but I think that you could have touched more upon how The Problem With Apu documentary was received. I think it's fair to say that it was NOT received well at all. It has really low ratings on IMDb and the trailer for the documentary had a huge amount of dislikes where 90% of the comment section called out and disagreed with Hari Kondabolu. There have also been many RUclips essays on why Apu didn't need to be removed and other South Asian comedians like Akaash Singh have spoken about why Apu was never a problem in the first place.
I also disagree with you when you said that you were confused about why so many people reacted negatively to the documentary as I think that there are plenty of valid reasons like:
1) Hari comparing Apu to a minstrel.(By that logic Mario is a minstrel as well)
2) Someone teasing them in school with Apu does not equate to oppression and that it is the Bully's fault for being a jerk, not the character's fault.
3) Hari's treatment of Hank Azaria in this documentary was absolutely inappropriate and disrespectful and borderline cyber bullying.
4) Hari only interviewing people who agreed with him and did not interview a Simpsons fan or an Indian person who likes Apu because that wouldn't fit in his narrative.
Etc, etc I can go on.
As an Indian American who spent most of his life in India, I can confidently say that Indians either love Apu or don't give a shit. In my opinion, Hari speaks for a very small minority of people who think that this one cartoon character from the 80s is oppressing them.
I personally have always loved Apu and would love to see him brought back whether he is voiced By Hank Azaria or not(preferably voiced by Hank Azaria, he made that character).
Always love watching your videos Jims.👍
Hari doesn't speak for Indians at all, he speaks for people from LA.
Critics who reviewed the Problem with Apu tended to give it positive reviews, whether they agreed with the discussions or not, because it's a competently-made program. Hari was right when he briefly mentioned that some people were just going to be offended that he talked about racism, no matter what he actually said; mass-disliking the trailer only goes to show that a lot of hate had nothing to do with his actual points.
Speaking of which... did *you* watch the documentary? He does talk about the historical context, he did say that children were going to be bullies no matter what, and he interviewed several people who didn't have a single problem with Apu - including his own parents.
@@theMoporterWhy would he when he's more concerned with receiving White Validation by trying to present himself as "One of The Good Ones" who isn't "an easily triggered snowflake who can't take a joke"?
People really don't like when it's pointed out, but marginalized people who go out of their way to shit on other marginalized communities, especially their own, in some self-destructive desire to gain the acceptance of the "dominant" society that already hates them for simply existing need to fucking realize that they will never be accepted, and when the first chance to get rid of them comes about-- like, oh say, bills and legislations getting sign into effect that allows the bigots to legally discriminate against them, or to make their existence ILLEGAL and gives law enforcement the right to imprison them and emboldens the bigots to have them arrested... those people they're trying to gain the validation of will jump all over that shit to get rid of you, because they will NEVER accept or embrace you, they will ALWAYS resent you for existing, because the US vs Them mentality runs deep. They will happily do whatever they feel is necessary to get rid of you, and they are extremely calculating in how they will do it - getting rid of the outer fray "extremists" that won't raise too many eyebrows so the token Pick Mes can reassure themselves that they are "safe" because they're "One of the Good Ones", and the bigots will work from the outer circles inwards so that by the time the token is on the chopping block, it's far too late for them.
@@theMoporter Critics are out of touch and rate things based on "the quality of the message" and they determine quality by how much nonsense you can fit into a movie.
I've seen critics bash children's movies for "not having realistic lessons on socioeconomics." There's a reason a normal person looks at user scores and not critic scores.
@@MizutamariVTi dont get this response? themoporter wasnt saying that the critics were right, just that the claim that it was badly received isnt entirely accurate
I wonder what it feels like to be known for being that one guy who ruined Apu... and for pretty much nothing else ever.
Like many comedians, he’s probably just happy he had 15 minutes of attention.
@@GeeZaaqEven though practically nobody considers this loser a comedian.
He's turned it into work for netflix unfortunately, because there is no such thing as a reputation too putrid for netflix to support.
hes known for being the worst character in the big bang theory
Apparently his parents disowned him over it
The fact that this Simpsons mysteries series is still going after 10 years is amazing. Hope this channel stays active for many more years
I am so irritated they basically got rid of Apu. I have a lot of East Indian friends who loved apu. They saw him as representing them on tv. The simpsons has sadly gone vanilla and is no longer fun to watch.
Yep, now the golden years look even better compared to the washed up era.
I miss him too. Yes, he was an offensive stereotype but so was everyone else on that show. I mean, look at Luigi. He's about as one dimensional as a character can get but not Apu. Apu was easily the most well rounded character in all of Springfield. Immigrant, business owner, vegan, has a phd, volunteer firefighter, hindu, brother, father of 8, husband and most importantly, enjoys building furniture and then discussing where it could be placed in a room.
But he's not perfect. He cheated on his wife more than once during a prolonged dry spell in his marriage. He got caught, and worked his ass off tirelessly to win back the trust of his wife. Most people don't bring up this aspect of Apu while defending him because they feel it's counterproductive to the point they're trying to make but I disagree. I feel like it makes him more human since he makes mistakes just like the rest of us, learns from those mistakes and grows as a character.
I hope they some day bring him back, even if they end up recasting the voice actor because Springfield just isn't the same without him.
The Scottish love groundskeeper willy and show they can laugh at themselves.
Oh and he was also the fifth beatle
It's kinda lose lose. Because there's so little south asian representation. You either get an imperfect character (that people may use to be racist). Or that character gets erased completely
One thing to add about Apu's controversial history. During the Simpsons Movie advertisement period, a bunch of convenience stores (7'11s I think) around the US were given Kwik-E-Mart aesthetics, including an Apu standee in the store. Many of the store clerks were ethnic and did state their issues with basically trying to work next to a cartoon picture of basically this stereotype.
I think this incident was another in why Apu's controversial issues sprouted up much later, because this basically reminded people of a show they didn't think about for so long and "oh yeah, this is a problem."
It's worth noting that while Apu hasn't appeared in season 35 yet, his brother Sanjay was in the premiere
I think if they want to stop giving Apu any appearances (even background ones), than they'd do the same for Sanjay, which makes me think he's going to continue to get background appearances.
Since he hasn't appeared in 35 at all though, maybe they'll be a lot rarer now. Like only once or twice a season.
Although ig it's possible that Homer's Crossing (the S35 premiere) was a hold over from 34
Edit: Yeah he's gotten more background appearances
I think the reason Sanjay appears but not Apu with Season 35 is because Apu's family don't have the controversy applied on them, even though they're Apu's family members. Most outsides of the show only know of Apu and what was mentioned about him in things like the documentary, while all family members, including his wife and kids, are mainly sidelined in the discussion. So because of that, characters like Sanjay dont actually have the baggage that Apu does, and that its still "safe" for them to keep characters like Sanjay around as background characters.
The people who will mostly notice, if anything, will mainly just be the fanbase. Not the casual viewer, especially ones who've seen the documentary and news and such and either dont watch the show or havent seen it in years, which is very common.
I would love a Simpsons Histories about Mr Largo. It seems like the show has always treated his sexuality as implicit knowledge, but I have absolutely no clue when they actually introduced that concept.
It's very simple: Apu is still on the seasons worth watching, so i don't care what they do with him in season 30 and something.
It's the main reason why it took me a long time to find out that they got rid of him.
Then you're not important to this conversation.
Agreed. No matter what they do with him in the future, they can never erase his presence in the classic era of the show.
@@mauriceisaac3646 The delusion is believing anyone was trying to erase him.
@@DDarkestKnight I just meant that we’ll always have the good times with him during the show’s golden years.
I just miss the character.. I didn't care who voiced the character.. Apu was one of my favorite characters
Well if you wish hard enough he'll come back with a new voice actor
@@DDarkestKnight
Yeah, and we all know how well it worked with Dr. Hibbert, Judge Snyder and Carl (they’re all terrible)
@@OklahomaBoomer No they've been amazing especially Carl! After that world class episode he had last year they can finally give Dr Hibbert his own episode!
@@DDarkestKnight
They don’t even sound like the characters.
At least Family Guy replaced Cleveland’s voice actor with someone who sound likes him.
@@OklahomaBoomer They sound just like the characters. Alex got Carl's boring tone down, KMR got Hibbert's laugh down. The voice of Kumiko also did the impossible task of making her worth paying attention to instead of her usual role of cosplay eye candy.
I miss Apu, he was a great character. A husband, father, friend, and business owner. Sucks they can't use him anymore.
I agree with you 100% I used to sing Who Needs the Kwik-E-Mart all the time as a kid. I had it on Tape.
If Apu is offensive, the same can be said for many. Bumblebee man to Hispanics, the mafia and the chef to Italians, Cletus to southern people, and the rampant Japanese stereotypes. The Simpsons gets in trouble with countries when they write an episode about them, such as Brazil. It's built on stereotypes.
Apu was a great character. Friendly, sympathetic, hardworking business owner. The fact that Apu became the biggest representation of Indians in the west is a testament to the writing. Why can't non-white characters be allowed to be funny? Apu was not made out of hate. He was once included and equal. A great Indian character snuffed out because bad feelings.
The writers dumping Apu redefined to me what 'spineless' means.
Wroter Defined
The worst part of the whole deal was seeing people dogpile the people who appeared on The Problem with Apu, blaming them for the show getting rid of Apu altogether.
When they never asked for that? Apu was a harmful stereotype of an underrepresented minority, specially due to the voice, there was a possibility of changing him or adapting him, and whichever choice was taken was up to the staff, not the people rightfully calling out the problem.
Apu is a beloved character for a lot of people, of course, but sometimes the things we like or are nostalgic for have problematic things, and is important to point them out to avoid those mistakes going foward.
I'm so amazed at how you find the perfect stills to go with whatever you're saying, it's like a superpower or something
I think it's kind of silly that people got upset over a relatively positive comical portrayal of an Indian in a comedy that regularly picks on, well, everyone.
Exactly how have you determined that he's a "relatively positive" portrayal?
@@Peasham Because he mostly has good qualities and he's not 100% defined by his race (which you can't say about a lot of other Simpsons characters).
@@mariodoccia6129 His existence is a stereotypical joke.
@@Peasham No argument. I gladly accept your concession, then.
@Peasham Apu is a staple of his community. He is well loved by almost everyone in Springfield. He is a successful businessman with a large, happy family. He has his quirks but they're only used to add to his charm. Yes, he's somewhat stereotypical, but that's never portrayed as a negative thing.
My mom is named manjula. When the apu gets married episode aired for first time, my dad never laighed so hard in his life. He still laughs whenever apu or his wife is mentioned.
Something strange that's also happened with Apu is that Sanjay seems to have gone the same route as he did with substantially less discourse surrounding him.
Imagine if Scottish people complained as obsessively about Groundskeeper Willie! Would we agree only a Scot can voice a Scottish character, and that he can no longer be made fun of?
And Bart is voiced by a woman!
Every scot I know sees Willie and thinks "that's literally me"
Most Europeans aren't so fragile.
That’s all you took from this? That all criticism in invalid bc another ethnic group with different experiences and values doesn’t have issues with a completely different character?
Yes because it’s a legitimate point. The simpsons is all about stereotypes and parody. All groups are mocked - asians, europeans, americans, christians, nerds, rich people, poor people, etc.
if apu is so offensive that he needs to be-rewritten then so does almost every character on the show.
People like Hari - people who make a lot of fuss over some actors *doing their job and acting* - is the reason why Hollywood and even America is the way it is today.
I thought the same thing at one point, then I put myself in his shoes. I still disagree with him like Apu and wish he was in the show, but I completely get how he feels.
frank grimes in the youtube comment section
If we got rid of all stereotypes within the simpsons we'd have no cast
White people don't seem to mind their stereotypes
Key word is "harmful", racism-understander
@LeftPhilip ok Left Phil.
I’ve always loved Apu, being a vegetarian and Beatles fan! Though I understand why others wouldn’t like his character in its usual iteration. He’s a genius business-owning immigrant living the American dream; I think there’s a lot to do with that!
"Because if you are a bad enough simpsons fan to watch my channel"
I don't even watch The Simpsons, but I find this series interesting.
I miss Apu and I want him back. He was a funny character, as well as having a lot of depth and heartfelt moments. He is one of the few characters who actually changes the status quo, what with getting married and having kids. He has a large family with a lot of interesting story potential (and I think his octuplets are adorable).
Whilst I'm not represented by Apu, but I don't think he is that offensive (at least he's a meaningful character who isn't entirely a stereotype). Practically all Simpsons characters are a stereotype of something, and Apu is no exception, but I don't even think he's the worst offender. If other characters were recast with more ethnically apropriate voice actors, why can't Apu get the same treatment?
9:05 Definitely one of Lisa's worst moments. Why do they keep dragging her into this?!
They love her. A bit too much.
@@kanna-san. I get the love but can they stop having her being the spokesperson for their poorly aged moments! This is barely behind Elon Musk.
Because Lisa was designated as the hollow mouthpiece of the group.
That's genuinely "stan from south park says matt and trey's opinions verbatim" level lmao
Because she's the Brian of The Simpsons
Thank you Apu for 20+ years of laughter. To those who cut him out I say "I do not thank you and big you to not come again!"
& pull the strap on them on the way out for good measure
A big screw you to those haters?
"If there's a way to make Apu Enjoyable for everyone"
There's not. It's simply not possible.
Just go back to the way he was.
No one was actually offended by Apu.
Its fake outrage for the sake of being outraged.
I'm so glad my Grandmother taught me, "The fastest way to have no proper friends is to try to be friends with everyone."
You by definition cannot make everyone happy. It's a pointless exercise in futility.
This stuff happened in the weird Time period where we somehow took misguided Fan letters seriously - which is what this documentary was in a nutshell.
Sadly this still happens, but instead of fan letters its internet discussion and outrage. The newest Star Wars trilogy was practically guided by Reddit's reaction, hopes, and dreams for each movie.
Very well put together. I absolutely love your videos.
Instead of keeping Apu as the Kwik-E-Mart guy, they could give him a promotion into a regional manager at Kwik-E-Mart, with a rotating cast of Kwik-E-Mart employees.
In an interview with USA today, creator Matt Groening said "I think it's a time in our culture where people love to pretend to be offended." in response to the criticism of Apu.
He of all people said that. That’s how bad things have gotten. If you remember his *Life in Hell* comic strips, that’s something.
Never heard about people wanting to get rid of the Bumblebee Man.
They did recast him though. Same with Doctor Hibbert. Which makes it all the stranger that they haven't done the same with Apu.
Or the italian chef, or groundskeeper willy, or the comic book nerd etc etc
The whole show is about stereotypes
@@28-r8bThere's no such thing as Scotch-tober-fest.
Non mexican latinos don't care and the mexicans see himan an homage to Chespirito.
I remember when the controversy happened, my friend and I tried really hard to come up with something that could keep him on the show. Eventually, we came up with the idea that he's kept up the stereotypical accent for years to keep the status quo. The episode could explore keeping up appearances, getting lost in others' opinions, as well as his belief that losing his accent was a slight towards his heritage. He'd come to accept that he was who he was, and decide to talk in his more "natural" voice moving forward, with a new VA. Years later it sounds cheezy, but it's better than what they've done so far.
My new favorite video. I hope someone from the Simpson’s writing team hears this.
Part way through the video, as a first generation ( first generation to be born here) I can explain why I hated the documentary so much. I am Mexican American, so I can’t speak about Apu but the Bumblebee Man always made me laugh because I knew what they were making fun of. I did relate a little to Apu growing up in a family that was quite not American , I am Americanized. He never seemed to be portrayed as incompetent nor stupid like the rest of the cast. The documentary felt like he wanted to speak for people who didn’t actually have a problem with it. Ruining a good character. Plus if anything I knew a poor kid named Homer at the peak of Simpson popularity. Now that kid had to deal with bullying.
as an Indian who loves Apu I just think it's important to acknowledge that Indians are not a hive mind who all agree that Apu is offensive. I know that seems obvious but a lot of the people who thought getting rid of Apu would be good for the whole Indian community really don't seem to get that they're just appealing to a certain sect of us.
People who hate on Hari forget, Hari loves The Simpsons and Apu. Most of the people he interviewed also do, the one exception being Kal Penn.
It is the current year clout, where people try to get diversity hired by complaining about how racist some successful product is. It is a grift.
I am of partial Middle Eastern descent and was bullied for it growing up. I also love Apu. People who get offended like this, in all my research and experience, frankly tend to be insecure and spiritually hollow. They have bigger fish to fry but project their problems on social piñatas to beat.
@@MayorOfEarth79The thing is they don't care that he's a Simpsons fan. They're just going to say he isn't so that can strawman him. They don't care about accuracy.
This guy Hari talks like he is the 'spokesman of all Indian people'.
I see this a bit differently. Like any good comedy, the Simpsons did not try to be an influence. It stayed within its lane and did not try to openly blast anyone to change opinions. Hari forced the Simpsons to have this power of influence. He did not see a comedy, he saw a tool for change. The writers, never having this power before, tried their best to regulate it by not touching Apu at all. Hari won, he took away a beloved character and forever altered how society views comedy. Let's hope he's happy with this outcome
There was a problem with Apu, but it wasn't Apu. Now he's gone. Great job bro.
Apu was one of the characters along with the Simpsons in hit and run so it’s bizarre how the show would just throw the character away like that…
oh man you've got me all hyped up. i think i've just quietly accepted that apu has been written out of the show at this point but now i really want to see what they can do with his character. the other side of the coin of the solution that nobody wants is that it's also the solution that's least likely to receive backlash and i am cynical enough to believe that this is the path the mouse/writers will take. god i hate that non-response with marge and lisa, they'd be better off not addressing at all. anyhow, from one simpsons fan to another, this was a really well-written video. well done.
Heres the thing. You can believe that there are hug problems with how Apu was portrayed. You can believe those improved later but still weren't actually fixed. And you can also believe the solution to remove Indian representation from the show entirely is not the right one. All that can be true and a consistent worldview.
Avoiding it and awkwardly lampshading it is not making it better.
Can I suggest a video exploring what Springfield looks like? It's a crazy town. There's a desert, a Mount Carlmore (are we treating that as canon), and a tire fire. And yet we know so little for sure. We know King Toot is next to Moe's and Flanders is next to Homer and that's about it. What would a map of Springfield be like? Maybe the opening credits give us more clues.
i watched this video the day it dropped and I just got it recommended again and seeing that "1 month ago" gave me whiplash. i cant believe it has been over a month
It is so funny when Apu is thought as a harmful stereotype, when everyone outside USA laughs to Homer Simpson and sees him as quintessential American.
Nope. People took offense to EVERYTHING in the Simpsons back in the day.
Politicians were up in arms at rallies, parents were furious, the whole works.
Homer and Bart in PARTICULAR were considered offensive due to their portrayals as deeply flawed people who had a lot of problems interacting with a society that fucked them up in kind, in a world where sitcoms mostly dealt with standard aspirational All-American superdads and their rambunctious but still controllable children.
"But the ratings back then were skyrocketing!" you might think, and yeah. Because ratings aren't a measure of quality, just viewer retention. Analytics don't care about emotions or feelings. People will watch the show to make informed derogatory remarks about it, and you just have to look at the usenet discussions about episode quality to see that clear as day.
I don't get why people think no one had a problem with anything else in the show. When the series began, the biggest controversy at the time was people finding offense with LITERALLY EVERYTHING about it because it was so groundbreakingly cynical to deliver its core messages of "The world is fucked up, and there's a good chance YOU are fucked up by it and don't even know it, but that doesn't mean you can't find happiness."