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How Much Power Can We Get From a 2023 Fuel Injected 125 2 Stroke?
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- Опубликовано: 11 янв 2023
- How powerful are the new 2023 fuel injected 2 Stroke dirt bikes from KTM and Husqvarna? And can we get any more power from the little 125? Let's find out!
We are teaming up with our good pal Roland Shaw from Hardcore Racing to see what upgrades we can make to the Husky TC125 to improve the numbers on the dyno. Roland is a certified two stroke motocross expert so we are excited to see what he can do! :-)
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I've had a fair few crossers from 80cc - 500cc since the early 80's.
I'd say the quickest 125 I had was a 2001 Yam ( YZ125).. It literally flew, they guy I brought it from raced it, so it was dialled in.. Rapid 125...
Unless people properly race bikes, I really don't innerstand why people would buy the newest bike out, because their not cheap....
Most of it is down to the rider..
Great video though, and thanks for sharing ✌🏼
I too had a 2001 yz125 and the bike was an absolute ripper. Never should have sold it
Yamaha from like 97-04 is awesome
I had the first gen pds KTM 125, the 1998 model and rode with a bunch of buddies who had japanese machines including YZ's. None of them had a motor that would run with the KTM, they handled a little better but motor wise it was not close.
nice new bike dosent have a history of abuse and halfassed maintenances
You ever rip a ktm 200? Rips like a 300 with out the “oh fuck” qualities of a 300. And when modified they’re quicker off a dead stop than a 250 but lack the top end that gets scary on the trail. My forever bike
I bet that TC will be smooth as a 125 can be. Look forward to the track test
Great video Max, Roland crunching the figures, that guy knows his stuff , he seems very down to earth. looking forward to the track tests next video Max.
Wow! I remember my 1978 Suzuki RM 125 making 22-23 HP and we all thought that was amazing. The Japanese bikes were also less peaky and more rideable than most of the Euro bikes of the day. The Cz’s, Bultaco’s and Husky’s that my friends were riding were definitely more challenging to knock off hot laps at the local track than our Japanese bikes.
I’m not going to lie….those stock figures are a bit of an anticlimax after all of the hype…especially since Roland said the atmospherics were in favour of the 23. What would the 22 figures be if it was ran on the same day? The bhp gap would increase even more.
If Roland did the same work to the 22, pipe, piston, head and mild porting it would still smash the 23 with the same spec.
my 60 year old guess would be around 33 rear wheel HP - no idea about the torque. So 264 HP/Liter. Now going to watch and see..
Love the design of that 2023
I would suggest All 2-smoke fans to check out Aj Catanzaro’s 150cc Straight rhythm bike which they manage to squeeze out 48(!) horsepower out of! You can find it here on RUclips.
Can’t help but to miss my Husky cr125, although the 450 is much more useful in the woods and on the streets..
48hp out of a 150 is a stretch. I own/built a water brake dyno for my little engine work. Did you know there is no real good way to calibrate them? That is why you can take the same engine package to a different dyno, and get different numbers. If they got an actual 48hp out of it,---it was not running on gasoline. 48hp is pretty good for a 250cc bike on gas. I wonder how funny his exhaust smelled? :)
@@EarthSurferUSA probably smells like corn i would guess , haha
@EarthSurferUSA nitromethane maybe?
I had a Husky Cr125 bored to an Eric Gore top end 144, and my 23 125 SX makes more power at every rpm. It's much easier to ride as well.
48 is realistic from a 150 , factory KTM 125’s where over 40hp decades ago and the road race 125 - 55hp !
What was the warm up procedure on the bike? The cold start enrichment map on the ECU is very rudimentary and is purely temperature based. The bike will not exit cold start enrichment map until the water temp exceeds 50*c. This could be the reason you were struggling with the bike being rich outside of the map switch.
I kinda have questions. Back in the day, the Aprilia's in theory put out 32BHP or so, and that seems the top line. Various other 125s like the KMX might do 22BHP.
I noted that during the run the hand was over the clutch lever in true 2 stroke style and I noticed fuel being blipped/fed in on the slow down (we might hope the fuel mapping would feed in fuel to guard against that..
So, questions - was this bike fully run in?
And after the £1200 spend, what kind of milage would you get prior to needing an engine rebuilt. Is this a 1000 mile engine or a 10000 mile engine?
Tuned to the bleeding edge (reed block, pipe, porting, fuel tuning perfect everywhere), it will probably make 40 at the crank. You'd want to dial it back a little to make it live in actual track use.
The harsh truth is fuel injection will do nothing for horsepower. It makes tuning faster and easier, but you will get just as much power from a carburetor. Its main benifits are slightly less emissions, and that is irrelevant an a losed-course racing bike.
@@dr.hugog.hackenbush9443 its all about smoother throttle and smooth fuel delivery
@@lifebehindtheselens I had a throttle carbed 91 kdx200 comparable to that of a efi ktm all about tuning
@@dr.hugog.hackenbush9443 If anything it wil actually reduce power because of reduced fuel droplet size, I have a feeling the spray patterns on those are made extremely fine for emmissions
@@lifebehindtheselens on a 125? 😂😂😂
Will these types of mods/tuning be available for the bigger bikes ?
I got the 2024 Husky TC 250. It's a fun, fast, and powerful bike.
@dpenduro8950 same as ktm. Same owners
I hope you guys get ahold of the 2023 tx300 and or the sx300s as well
its coming soon Brian :)
@@999lazer waiting to see a pro race a tricked one against 450s after seeing some ride em and confirm def 450 race competitive. Sucks AMA is stuck on politics but from what I hear you guys can run em with ?
Did you ever do the follow up ride video for this ?
As long as they are available and allowed i will buy carbed 2t dirt bikes. I like tech in many cases, but not this :) especially if i don't have acess to remapping the ECU myself. If you dont drive at different altitudes all the time the benefits outside of fuel consumption/emissions are slim to none, at the moment at least. Great to see his testing thought, that was some good improvements
Tech is properly applied, (and was developed), with free enterprise. The factories had no free market intention to push a bike to over 10 grand. That was the force from the EPA/government(s),---and that is called a dictatorship. It may eventually cost us,----everything we ever built. What we did not learn is school is the fact that free people, mostly in the USA, (the most free nation ever created by man), created free enterprise, and it is called economic fascism when government give out favors for their own political reasons, (hindering free market competition), and simply called communism when government tell us what to make and buy, and take over entire industries that free people built, (like our recently nationalized health care industry.). I say, with any rational definition, we live under a dictatorship now.
The fuel injection will comp fine with different elevations
exactly, in UK we are good with one jetting from March to November. No rapid elevation difference either.
@@lifebehindtheselens there is no barometric sensor on these so no it will not comp for elevation
I think these new ktms are getting like 20-30 mpg anyway so fuel consumption sucks on these and there is not baro sensor to comp for elevation. I dont see any positives with this
KTM really shot themselves in the foot going tbi on a 125sx lol. All the complexity and weight for absolutely nothing.. you can make the case for the 300 and maybe even the 250 but electric start and tbi on a 125 LMAO
Can you guys make build for a yz125 22/23? Can it compete against a gas gas?
So whats the price of a 150cc? Guessing it would be the way to go. Instead of spending extra to still not be a 150.
Carb is king 🏍️💨
That’s why the gasgas has the same motor, but is carbureted and faster!
Tbi is kinda a garbage idea for a 2 stroke. Just look at all the old 2 stoke GP bikes and the millions they poured into development. Most teams still used carbs. The successful ones anyway
Nah the 2024s are all fixes
Personally I prefer fuel injection tbh
Not really, when they are able to open up the computer and map it, these 2 strokes will be making more hp up top, and the fuel injected bike makes more power across the lower Rpms, so coming out of corners and such it’s going to be better than the carbed bikes once they start tuning them
Very good stuff here, boys. Thanks for the entertainment.
Carburetor - 💪👍
Maico 700cc 2 stroke with fuel injection get one of them on here with upgrade s and good pipe and that :) would love to see that 70+hp
They are 82hp from the factory with a huge carb.
If you can't do anything with fuelling it's a bit pointless tuning it.
Throttle body injection is used on aftermarket car stuff, one is called megasquirt, costs about £900. You just need throttle position, rpm pulse and that's it, but engine temperature, lambda sensor could be part of the map.
I think Athena do a direct injection kit for smaller bikes, I wonder if they could be adapted?
Bigger throttle body?
With thin slide/ smoothbore?
Different reed block?
Kitten injection?😉🤯
Ive always wanted there to be a competition each year to see who can make the most power out of a single cylinder 125cc engine. they can make the engine fully from scratch but thats the goal
will be interesting to see how the crank holds up, after these mods and after a remap
My big question is the exhaust power valve ecu controllable? That would be the main game changer. I had a KTM 300 TPI it was insane. Husky and KTM are n the right track imo.
Have you guys done the new injected 250 yet? Would be interesting to see how that compares to the 2022 model
What a lemon with the 3 hp pipe and port job .
Is the bottom end now filled of oil I presume it's injected from above do you have any schematic links
There is a guy in Sweden remapping them, and with good result too.
Who? What results?
Have you contact?
I used to have a 05 yz125 an that was well fast on top end on tarmac miss that bike i made it mint sold it for 2000 and the guy who brought it off me listed it as a 09 had it up for 2500 cheeky or what
Is the new video coming out for the tc 125 the track test ?
What's the torque at rear wheel? That's what really matters.
Would it be fair to say once remapping is available and therefore fueling adjustments, these bikes have the potential to not necessarily rewrite the 2t performance handbook but certainly make a vast improvement? With a carb setup, you'd just rejet it, but as the software isn't available yet for these, fueling is very much static set by factory. So I'd like to think the future looks very bright for two strokes.
Hi guys,great watch,do you know if Roland can do the same package for the 23 tc250,is the hsg exhaust available yet for this model, cheers guys Richard.
I know he has the pipe already as we are shooting a test with it this week :)
Back in the 90’s 125 2 stoke motocross bikes according to spec’s put out about 37 hp. So 30 years later and the bikes make less power.
Nothin like that narrow band of the old mx’s
check out AJ Catanzaros Cr125.. hes pushing 45HP! he said its the fastest bike hes ever ridden
Which is a ktm150. Had pv work. Porting. Top end. Pipe etc. Was a shocking power figure!
@@TheShift1313 ya! Amazing bike
Yes while it was an insane number 45 hp isn't a fair figure to compare to this dyno every dyno is different so it's more important to know that dyno numbers. That cr150 is amazing and these 23 125s are amazing not fined tuned yet but can be amazing
Do you think the YZ 125 is still worth the buy ? , you said you loved the YZ 125 motor. I spent a stack $4.500 on my YZ 2022
I have not ridden yet , Got the longer Rod Pison porting through Rolland HGS pipe VHM head ECU Dyno at wheel 38 good riding HP he says ? Otherwise ill not ride and sell to have more a Brand new bike sale so to speak
The new 23 down 3 hp to the 22? I seriously doubt that.
My guess on a real Dyno would be around 35. The magazines and their low 40 horsepower is bullshit.
since they are fuel injected, do they still need a premix? does the gasoline still live in the crank case?
Yes to both! Efi does not equal adequate oil injection
Which piston l need 125 to juse?
CR250 with big carb & tuned pipe and small front cog is still the best 2 stroke outside of a 500cc gp bike.
RS250 were fun but not amazing.
Emissions laws are killingn2 stroke
Please test the 300cc
great vid guys. What fuel? vp? leaded? Thanks
In the test it was running 99 octane unleaded (pump fuel)
can you do this same whit a 250 4 stroke:)
Roland’s a G
I wish there was a package for a 2023 TC 250
please can someone explain to me if there is a reason why he revs it at the end of the run?
I'm not exactly sure, I've seen people do this a lot... maybe for fun? Lol. Unless they are trying to keep oil fed into the cylinder while it's at high rpm's, since all the oil is in the fuel. Granted these bikes and many other 2 strokes besides those crappy 2 stroke cars made in the 1940s should be just fine engine braking without oil being fed. Maybe he just wants to add that extra bit of life to the bike haha.
Power loss from the bigger stator needed to run all those electrical gizmos.
im really surprised at how little power that made from the factory, my kx125 from 1986 makes that same power and torque
That will most likely be factory readings from the crank.
No. No it does not.
@@scootypuffjr. dyno tested it today 36hp to the wheel
@@bananas401k every dyno is different. Comparisons only work on the same dyno.
From a 1986 KX125? Id be interested in seeing the graph, as I have a 125 trail bike that has an engine very heavily based on the 86 KX, but de-tuned somewhat.
AWESOME AMAZING SUPERB TOP
I do think that part of the reason it is down power could be that the husky had a more restrictive airbox.
It is down on power. Tbi is a joke. Just ask anyone who bought it about the countless mapping issues and low hp numbers on a dyno
like your vid,,,im looking for a pipe for my 1999 kx125 please,,in africa no parts
my 2004 RM 125 makes 41 hp!!!!!!!! stock!
nice!
Awesome bikes!
I’d guess more like 29-31 on a dyno
Are they not all made under the same umbrella company like Gas Gas, KTM , Husky?
they are all part of the same company but the 2023 gasgas is not fuel injected
Yea, that is new business today. Instead of a company going out of business, KTM buys them up, (for example). But the competition is still gone.
That is one thing I have not become sure of in economics, if merging is ethical. I know we have the right to do it, but if there was not any government force on the industry, new companies could start up with out being tax payer subsidized like electric bikes, (and never make a profit, so it is a drain of our opportunity.). I guess it depends if government force is ethical on our industries that free people built. What do you think? I think if it eliminates real competition with use of government force/regulations, it has to be unethical.
I can get 40hp out of a 125 running on gas with a carb,---but you guys would not be able to ride it well on a MX track other than the wide open smooth straights today. You would stall it a lot everywhere else. I think it is still true that a 2-stroke can make twice the power of a 2-stroke of equal displacement, but for drag racing, not for MX where you need throttle control,---and clutch talent.
I think it is still true that a 2-stroke can make twice the power of a "4" stroke of equal displacement
@@EarthSurferUSA I don't believe that twice the power is possible as the 4 strokes still have cleaner scavenging. I'm pretty sure Yamaha's famous "1.6x" was pretty close to the actual difference in performance per given displacement.
32.5 on my dyno
Where can I get this kit
www.motocrossdirect.co.uk and talk to Roland
I wanna see ypu guys get a 250 2 stroke to 50 whp maybe more if that’s possible without getting too crazy
It has been done and raced many times. But they need expensive race gas, so 44-47 is about the production limit today. Good porting matched with a good pipe with high compression on race fuel, and you are there.
Bone stock '02 & '03 KTM 250SX engine were putting out 50 hp while Japanese 250s were around 43-45 hp
The first run with no weight on the rear, maybe slipping on the dyno?
If they can't figure that out, what makes anybody think they are qualified for this test?
are we honestly that soft we can't kick start 125s anymore ??
Question - what is a 12 degree piston?
12° dome
The edge of the piston is angled at 12 degrees but you need to buy the VHM head and insert to suit the piston dome pistons have flat top with a 12 degree edge some pistons are domed with a 12 degree edge
Got rod and piston not porting through Rollland typed it inccorrectly sorry
2 hp down on carb moddel just loke the 4 strokes in 09
wow thats alot of work for a few hp.
Fual injection dosen't make as much h.p. as carb.remaping would help.
3hp? I’d find a new tuner
when something works perfect
and then some moron says lets but some wires on it to mess it all up
What about the 450s
If you can't even map it for fuel or ignition why bother even fitting parts to it.
Are you actually going to post and share the actual numbers this time? Unlike your YZ500 video
Shouldn't the bike be remapped to the mods?
If it was already running rich it should be all good now
Husky and gas gas will always get the scrapes from the ktm r and d otherwise it will make the orange bike look bad if the other ones get faster
Motorcycle dyno operator - the bravest man I've seen in my life
Bike pulls just enough still arm ripping.
But beware do NOT put this bike on GREEN MAP!
It fouled my spark plug and bummer too parts are not available as of yet 😐
It costed me a riding trip
Fact is a slide throttle body will always flow air better than a butterfly throttle body. This is why these FI bikes will never make more HP than a slide carb. UNLESS they put a slide TB on the FI bikes. Which they won't ever do. Your welcome.
Why you keep calling it a one two five here in America we call them a one twenty five! You sound like you're from London 😂
Someone might ask why you don’t say “one hundred and twenty five” you say the 25 in full, why not the 100?
@@Scissors69 the same reason you call a 250 a two fifty you wouldn't call a 500 a five zero zero
@@taylorhappe4212 and what would you call this reason? Preference perhaps?
Is that 36 wheel or crank hp??
Have you ever seen an engine dyno for dirt bikes? I would bet the factories made their own, but everybody else is using a roller/chassis dyno, because it is way more difficult to hook up different engines alone to a dyno. Even so, dynos have no real calibration that I have ever found for either type. That is why a different dyno will most likely post different numbers from the same engine set up. I bought a Land and Sea water brake dyno for my little engines, and built the drive system for a engine dyno. But I really had no idea if it was displaying the actual torque. But the stock engine does have hp/rpm in the owners manual (with no exhaust pipe/can, no exhaust at all and no air filter.), so I ran the stock engine, and adjust my "efficiency loss factor" in the software to match the 2.8hp at 12,500 rpm that the manual claims. It did peak power at the 12,500 rpm claim, so that was good to see from the Japanese built engine (Zenoah), now owned by Husky.
That is the best for calibration I could do, (trust the engine manufacture). I have never seen a good way to calibrate a dyno, but some can be so simple, (direct drive inertia dyno's.), that if designed properly, will be accurate as soon as you put it together. I measured the same engine on a inertia dyno a old boss of mine made. The manual said 2.8hp. I got 2.78hp.
@EarthSurferUSA I didn't ask for a life story which I didn't read
Was just a simple answer wheel or crank hp
As rollers can work out crank hp
I love Roland but no way in hell is a bike coming out the factory at 37hp gonna dyno at 33hp. But to find 3hp just from a port job, vhm head, map change and a hgs system is ridiculous gonna get more then that surely
Dyno's are not calibrated, and will get different results. Plus, 33hp at the wheel of a 125 was slow about 30 years ago for a modified bike.
Dynos can only really be compared to themselves, unfortunately. And 3 hp sounds small but in percentage terms its a ten percent improvment which is pretty good for the kinda money they mentioned. As a an ex racer back in the day if you gave me one hp over every one else I would be a very happy bunny 8)
People really bought into the hype lol. On a 1st year production no less
😍
All that for 3hp 😱
10 percent improvment aint bad 8) , at the racing level it all helps !
I'm amazed that American's can say ktm, and kawasaki correctly, but not Husqvarna. Its Hus-kvar-na, not Hus-ka-var-na
Carburetor vs fuel injection at top in full open Carburators are the same has fuel injection no benefits going to fuel injection.
Only better low in power.
The 125 that's built will make 45hp.
End of story.
The biggest problem with mx 2 strokes though is their usable power. Fuel injection should help that as more maps are developed, plus the default bonus of better fuel atomization. The other 2 stroke problem was lack of over-rev, which I'm not sure what the solution would be. 250f you can rev for very long without shifting, 2t you have to make sure you're in the perfect gear.
Not very much gains for the cost definitely not worth it.
Dyno reads very low
ohhh boy has electric powervalves ever worked without problems 😂😂
i have more in my gpr 125 2t lol
Well fuel injection on snowmobiles is the standard nowadays, so I have no doubt it will become that here too.
Be abit more realistic if he sat on it to press the tyre onto the roller and if he put a really hard road tyre on because what idiot dynos a bike like that ?
Taking away the simplicity of a two stroke maybe?
Just buy a 250, SOLVED
i here the pistins dont last
Nothing lasts here nor there... Why would pistins be any different?
The GasGas and KTM’s look awesome and the Husky looks like the aftermath of eating eggs and chili! How can they produce such a turd in the aesthetics with these Husky’s?
Hmm I like Husqvarnas more out the three.
Seems to have higher torque than a 250f 4puke.
There is no way
@Vaughan Hodgon want to some money on that.
@@vaughanhodgson check out the Dirt Rider dyno video. Of a 2022 KTM 250sxf..
@@dennismillus4581 ??? First of all this video is showing hp not torque and You can't compare 2 different dynos and u have to be foolish to think a 125 makes more torque. A 250f would make boat loads more torque throughout the rev range
@Vaughan Hodgon your wrong just wrong about the Torque numbers. Fact check yourself...