The problems with "Loving Everything Star Wars"
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
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People with that mindset are one of the main reasons why disney puts zero effort in good story telling and keeps serving up piles of crap
A person who consumes something regardless of quality ISN'T a "super fan". That person is a _Super Sucker_ !!!
A true fan would care about quality.
I agree. however, I had a really really smart student in my mythology class more than a decade ago, and he loved TLJ. now TLJ was, imo, the absolute worst thing to ever happen to cinematic SW. I only mention this to say that there's really no accounting for taste. it drives me crazy that anyone could think RoS was good. but some do. same with the Obi-wan series. and my reaction to them is the same as yours here. but my gawd. there are smart ppl who like this tripe. 😳
Sycophants and activist don't care about story or canon. Virtue signal is more important than silly things like plot...
@@jamesneese7663 💯 they’re more concerned that the ‘right’ people are cast (not just in the acting roles) then they are with the stories.
“Stop asking questions. Just consume product and get excited for next product.”
''Just turn off your brain and consume product, then get excited for next product.''
They don't want fans, they want acolytes.
that’s right Jay
Just because you're a fan of SW, doesn't mean you have to like every single movie, show, game, or book.
A person who consumes something regardless of quality ISN'T a "super fan". That person is a _Super Sucker_ !!!
A true fan would care about quality.
Just because you're a fan of SW, doesn't mean you have to put down or insult fans that like a project you don't like
@@TheDCbizDude… these shows are shit, we WANT good starwars shows. if you are actually a fan you should want that too. Get off your high horse and ask the BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY to try a little harder.
@@BigBreadBoi what if I like shows like this? Does that stop me somehow from being "actually a fan"? How am I on the high horse? Do you feel you are in a high horse implying who is "actually a fan" and who isn't? Why is it my responsibility to ask the BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY to try a little harder? Why don't you do that if you feel shows like this are shit?
Someone who always approves regardless of quality isn't a fan, but rather a cultist.
"Nobody hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans"
- Yes because we CARE. Why would people unfamiliar with this franchise had any reason to hate it? That works for every fanbase.
This is why it bothers me when the shills go after you with the “why do you even care?”. We care because we’re Star Wars fans and we hate what they’ve done to our beloved world.
"Nobody hates Star Wars like Star Wars fans"
Yeah, and no one will love Star Wars like Star Wars fans. That's why we're so upset when people are butchering it.
Exactly what I was thinking. You wouldn't praise everything your child does; you would try to push your kids to be better. Same with being a fan.
No it doesn't. Star wars fans are UNIQUE about the LOVE/HATE for the franchise.its not just normal fans being PASSIONATE or CARING. It's something unique to star wars fans. Star wars just hits different
@@YegRonwho are the "shills" and who is "they"? What do you love about Star Wars?
I hate the "you're not a true fan" argument people say when you dislike something that came out of a franchise you liked.
Saying your not a true Star Wars fan for not liking the Disney shows is like saying your not a true Scooby-Doo fan for disliking Velma, or not a true Batman Arkham fan for disliking Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League.
Alternatively, I'd say that person who consumes something regardless of quality ISN'T a "super fan". That person is a _Super Sucker_ !!!
A true fan would care about quality.
Even more than that, the one that gets me is: “why do you even care?!?”
*you're, not your
Except that it ISN'T. Star wars fandom is unique that it doesn't have that wiggle room other franchises like marvel or DC have. Joker 2 and superman legacy aren't connected and are WILDLY different appealing to different parts of DC fandom. Star wars doesn't have that luxury. They are connected like the mcu BUT unlike the mcu star wars is strangled by its lore. The MCU is still going, we the fans don't know how it ends. Each installment continues the story. Unlike star wars, the fandom knows return of the Jedi brought balance to the galaxy and they lived happily ever after. We also know there was a 1000 generations of peace for the past. So star wars is closed off unless we skip ahead past the events of Rise of Skywalker or go to old Republic which still is strangled by EU canon.
@@YegRonwell, why do YOU care?
It's such a silly thing to say that fans should love everything a franchise does at all times. People become fans because something connects with them. Not because they were obligated to. And people don't stay fans because of obligation. If a franchise makes bad choices or starts going down a bad path there's nothing wrong with people calling that out.
Star Wars won't get better until the people with the power to make more Star Wars turn it around. But it definitely won't get any better if people blindly approve of everything.
Especially since franchises depend on fans buying the products. We are the customers, it's the creator's job to create something we want to use our money on. We don't owe them money just because they do something.
Exactly.
A person who consumes something regardless of quality ISN'T a "super fan". That person is a _Super Sucker_ !!!
A true fan would care about quality.
@@Ihavethetouchso the question becomes, what do YOU WANT them to make for you?
@@ellugerdelacruz2555but can't that same idea be applied to PT fans? Some OT fans despised the PT and were upset that PT fans liked what those OT fans felt was a betrayal if star wars
@@TheDCbizask many of those people how they feel about the PT now. A burnt steak is a lot more appetizing when someone just shit on your plate.
People like that are 100% the problem. If I'm paying for something I absolutely have the right to mock, criticize, or praise it. We the CUSTOMER are your boss, make us happy or lose money. It's really that simple
exactly.
Many people become irrationally attached to something and any criticism of it is felt like a direct attack on their own intellect, values, etc. Its something we develop in childhood and many fail to shrug off even when they mature - it isn't just Star Wars, it is often on display with consoles, etc. They simply cannot separate themselves from the thing they love and convince themselves something is better than what it is as otherwise it would be a slight on their own self.
A person who consumes something regardless of quality ISN'T a "super fan". That person is a _Super Sucker_ !!!
A true fan would care about quality.
I normally don't make this kind of comparison, but your comment made me think of the political analogy that fits perfectly. Some people will invest SOOO MUCH into their political identity that they simply can't comprehend conflicting pov's.
This dynamic has wrecked so many families, including mine. 🙏
Or maybe people don't like being called shill/bigot just because they like or dislike a film or show or game
Well said
Whenever I hear that line about "Nobody hates Star Wars like Star Wars fans", I always think...yeah? I mean, obviously? Nobody _cares_ about Star Wars like Star Wars fans. Who exactly do they think _should_ hate bad Star Wars? I'm not a sports fan, so I don't hate the New York Yankees. I'm not a beer drinker so I don't hate Budweiser. Of _course_ fans are going to be the ones who hate a bad Star Wars show, nobody else will care enough to hate it.
Best way to get more poop is by telling folks you love it and want more
But I don't think you understand something about these fans, they don't see what they are being serves as poop. Star wars is like a restaurant. Maybe you hate onions so when the waiter brings you onion soup-the chef's special, you hate it. But another customer might think it's okay, not too bad or too good or some customers might like it.
@@TheDCbizThat's why you make your orders in the restaurant, it's not like they just bring you random food and expect you to like it
@@TheDCbiz Agreed but just because you like it doesn’t change the fact that it is poop. Saying you like the poop soup because the flecks of corn are sweet will only make them re-use the poop broth base the next day.
The parent analogy at the end was the most important part. We criticise because we want it to become the best it can be.
Then why do some fans leave death threats? Parents go to jail if they do that to their kids
@@TheDCbiz That's only a small minority, it's not the majority nor do the represent the entire fanbase as a whole.
@@TheSmokeyDawn I haven’t liked much of anything lately, but I’ll probably come back for Andor S2.
I think most fans would come back if they started putting out quality stories again.
@@TheDCbiz Those who do that are not a valid part of the conversation, they're idiots. We who point out shit writing and contradictions are. There's a very stark difference.
@@TheDCbizthat you’re even pointing that out is silly. Idiots that throw death threats around are precisely that. Idiots. Also a fringe minority that’s not even worth mentioning because their idiot opinion doesn’t matter.
Honestly, people would complain less about Disney's shows and movies if Disney actually put more effort in the right spots, like the plot and story, and also creating genuine characters with flaws, emotions, and the right characteristics depending on their role in the story.
Well all the good writers n directors are not hired because of DEI, u can see Disney agena. It's like everyone is learning on the job
Writing good stories really isn’t that hard. You just need to be a good writer lol
@@ALDO_GOODENS Right?! I'm a sci-fi comedy writer myself and it's actually super fun to create compelling characters with emotions, relationships, strengths, and weaknesses, and let them go wild! At that point, once you're having fun telling a story, compelling characters and a compelling plot come with not too much effort at all.
The way Disney is trying to tunnel-vision into what the stakeholders want, they're not spending enough time creating a genuine story or characters that audiences can feel and relate to. Or, Disney messes it up by missing the point of what that actually means.
Exactly
@@alieninsectbass The next great Star Wars writer right here
I think an another way to explain is this.
The problem isn't that "Hey one cake looks lower quality than the other one, but they're still edible, so there isn't a reason to get upset." It's more of "That cake has no eggs or flour in it, it's going to taste bad." . Yeah there's frosting and sugar but if you want to eat a flourless and eggsless cake that's fine, however many aren't gonna eat it.
(There maybe a cake like that, idk, but that aint the point I'm making)
But that's the problem isn't it? When Kathleen and others present you a vegan cake then you might get upset since you wanted a non-vegan cake. BUT some fans or customers enjoy or don't mind the vegan cake
@@TheDCbizBut if you didn't order it, why would you pay for it?
@Ihavethetouch it's not even that it's a "vegan" cake, because people are likely to give it a try, it's more that the cake doesn't have the necessary ingredients for it to become a cake of any kind for a good 97% would even try to eat it
@@TheDCbiz Do you know why there isn't a vegan cake shop on every corner? Because there isn't enough vegans in the world to keep more than but a few in business. Now you can keep the business going for a while but eventually you need to make some money or you go bust.
@@TheDCbiz Too bad that's not what is happening. The more proper comparison is creating a cake made with rat poison. Then shoving it on a shelf with actual proper cakes only to have them be poisoned as a result. Some people might be so loyal to the person making the cake that they'll gladly eat a poison cake. But those people are stupid.
Kennedy decided to create trash products that damaged the brand she's made them under. And she's made products that are simply bad. And people aren't all blind worshipers.
Been playing Jedi Survivor and it just goes to show... Good star wars stories still exist. Star wars can still be well written, compelling, interesting. It can have interesting characters, awesome moments, with an almost entirely fresh cast.
When put in the hands of capable writers, Star Wars can actually be something great that people don't just bash on. And that's just sad, that the best story being told at the moment is a game which reaches so few of the fan base at large
“Shut up and enjoy what we give you!!” Has been Disney’s approach to a lot of things, and it’s rubbed off on those who will tirelessly defend their favourite faceless multinational corporation that doesn’t give a shit about them.
When did Kathleen Kennedy ever say that?
It would be like having a favorite restaurant, one which you've visited regularly for years and served excellent food that you loved. Then they change management -- same name though-- and the food starts declining. Some is okay, just not good, a few dishes are delicious, and several are terrible and borderline uneatable. Would you just say, "Well, I used to get great food here, I've had some fond memories, so I'll put up with so-so food, or inconsistent food, strange takes on dishes I've loved, and all the time pay slowly increasing prices just to be disappointed and frustrated" ? Some might do this, but most would expect quality, would lament the decline of their favorite restaurant and then frequent it less and less, until they'd stop going altogether and perhaps it would close down one day. This is the situation with Disney Star Wars today. There are a lot of younger viewers who seemingly don't expect much or else are so politically correct that they abhor any sort of negativity, no matter how deserved. Or they're tired of the old themes and characters and want fresh new spins and views to tickle their modern senses. Redefine everything in the same way they do certain superhero characters (such as Batman...how many remakes or retells has there been on him over the past 30 years?) and simply label those who don't like these redefinitions as 'toxic fans' 'sexists' 'haters' or whatever. Disney has embraced those that share these new ideas and thinks that the 'old fans' will, out of blind loyalty, keep watching and paying for Disney+ each month and/or eventually buy movie tickets to see whatever they decide to put out. They are going to have a shocking surprise one day when their SW revenue dries up and they make little money at all at the franchise that was supposed to be the golden goose when they bought it.
Great timing! Was looking for a video to listen to while I meal prepped. Thanks Thor!
I’ve heard the argument against “old timers” like me pop up again that I don’t like it because I expect it to make me feel like it did when I was a kid. But it felt GREAT to watch Rouge One with my son ! To share in the internet reactions of the end of Mando season 2 ! To see the reaction of “Chewie we’re home” during the trailer release. But if much of the Disney content that has been put out was released back in the 70s and 80s there’s a good chance Star Wars wouldn’t have continued. Maybe I would enjoy it more if the Star Wars logo wasn’t used. But I DO have a higher standard because of what was presented before. And much of since Disney hasn’t come close to the previous quality and care that went into it before.
0:42 This attitude will never yield positive results. If we all did this, we’d get more and larger crap sandwiches to eat. We’d be telling Disney, “Mmm mmm yes! More of that please!”
Hell no.
But I think you misunderstood. Star wars is a restaurant. Some fans like yourself might feel the chef's special of meatloaf tastes like shit. But some fans enjoy the meatloaf. Some don't hate it as much as you but also don't like it that much either.
There is no fan that loves every part of any franchise, especially one the size of Star Wars. No product can please everyone. The creators should just strive to please more fans than not.
A person who consumes something regardless of quality ISN'T a "super fan". That person is a _Super Sucker_ !!!
A true fan would care about quality.
How can Kathleen do that tho when the fan base is this large? No matter what's made, won't it upset some fans? Andor is considered good. SW Theory didn't like it that much because for him it didn't FEEL like star wars. Beyond the Trailer kinda disliked it FEELING it was boring. And Thor Skywalker enjoyed it. So the fan base is divided and has been since 1983 when teddy bears helped defeat the empire
@@TheDCbizFirst she could ban people.making these projects from attacking people.
Then she could make people to consider what majority of their paying audience want. Who they want to concentrate towards. Who will bring in most profit in the long run.
@@Ihavethetouch Having Lucasfilm creatives respect the audience and stop attacking them would be a great starting point. At this point though I have to assume that KK approves of this strategy as it keeps happening.
@@Ihavethetouch Okay. Who working at Lucasfilm has attacked people that Kathleen can fire or ban? Rian Johnson I assume with his "your snoke theory sucks" right?
I'm asking YOU, what do YOU WANT from star wars? If Kathleen concentrated on your wants, how fans like yourself bringing in the most profit
This series was sold as this new, original story that is removed from the Skywalker saga as a murder mystery but instead, it has more to do with the Prequels than any other Disney SW. Not to mention it failed in being a murder mystery. If the series was self-contained then more fans would be lenient with certain choices but it's not.
You make a good point that I wish more folks were talking about, they cannot seem to stopping sabotaging the original star wars movies, the agenda seems to be to not stop until they have driven away every last original fan so they can reshape a new audience that's obedient to the star wars logo alone and that will guarantee them good reviews and returns
Disney won't do a han solo type character that's considered a "hero" cause he's problematic. He'd have to be called out for his "bad behaviour" and proven to be wrong
.... example? Poe Dameron in the last jedi who was forced to lead a mutiny after his female commander was an obnoxious idiot that kept talking down to him for no reason and could've prevented the entire movie by just explaining the plan to her SECOND IN COMMAND. And at the end of the movie, Poe has to apologise for his behaviour (despite it being lretty justified)
The mindset of quantity over quality will never not befuddle me. I don't want anything I love to suck because of oversaturation or a lack of care.
That one troll commenter with the Mando s2 Luke profile pic has been real quiet since this video dropped.
Probably haven't gotten the notification for it yet lol. Or they being quiet since some people like me have been trolling them.
@@DeuteromisHe's here now
@@Ihavethetouch New account it seems.
@@Ihavethetouch I spoke too soon
@@FormerlyDuck2It's okay, it's always fun to see his takes in these things
Tobacco industries have the same rethoric: don't think about anything bad just enjoy smoking!
Used to buy doctor-approved "reviews", too...
Wanna buy some death-sticks?
@@katakesh8566 Let's deconstruct the preconception that they are deadly and therefor show they are good for your health
"Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product."
Funny considering the RUclipsrs do the same thing... I said it sucks. Don't ask questions, just click on the next video where I explain again that it sucks... and don't forget the previous video where I explained that it sucks. C'mon man...
that’s right Jay
These are types of people that can’t think for themselves.
When 'everything is great' (see: average-bad) nothing has to be great, because why try at all when you know people will accept less?
I got into a discussion with a friend where I said that I personally refuse the idea that people who love everything Disney are a bigger fan than me just by virtue of that universal love. Some of whom, I swear, you could hand a bottle of warm spit, call it “Rancor milk” and they’d drink it with a smile of their face. Thats not fandom. Thats simping for a franchise. And it’s sad.
If their Focus Groups didn't like it in prescreenings (requiring rewrite and reshoots), how can they expect regular viewers and fans to love it...
It doesn't make sense....
It's a contrasting parallel to the EU content. There were elements in the EU that were divisive, but; the major difference is that the content was properly placed within the context, setting and lore. We got zombies and it was made believable. The Disney timeline on the other hand is breaking the context, lore and setting. It undermines the verse and even contradicts itself scene to scene. What some don't want to see is that, the writing is less than subpar before you bring a poorly choreographed lightsaber duel forward.
I disagree. Even George disregarded EU when he made the prequels. Not all of the EU imo fit together and did clash. Like having witches in the EU and canon bothers me as a fan.
@@TheDCbiz Wrong, Lucas didn't consider the EU part of his canon, but he stil approved it and used elements from it. The EU wasn't perfect but still 100X better than what Disney has been doing.
@@Deuteromis That's your opinion. I disagree. Yes George did license star wars out and even used some elements of it. You and I agree the EU isn't perfect. Imo the EU isn't better, it's just equally trash as much as Disney's
@@TheDCbiz
I don't see how? I'm never dive into eu books, but just looking lore videos, character, etc an brief fans videos over its content srove my interest into checking that content out
Vs
I actually watched sequels, an most disney shows to point pretty much disinterested in the franchise as whole may except og films/ some ru content but overall done with franchise as it's going to go same way as halo all these other franchise. Only saving grace for sw is due to how big it is, will just take that much longer to sink.
I am reasonably sure Lucasfilm and Disney has plenty of data on what works and what doesn’t.. they are just ignoring it
As are the shareholders. Curious, ain't it.
How is the joke from RLM, “Just consume product and get excited for next product”, now an actual defense?
here’s my biggest issue with Disney. Disney has all the monies. literally an endless bankroll, one of the very very few who do. they can afford to hire the best writers in hollywood, the best up and coming directors, the best editors, best actors too, every single job you see in those closing credits- disney can hire the very best in every single one. and if you hire the best in every aspect of film- chances are you’re gonna end up with a damn good show. it would be almost impossible to have a bad show if you hired the very best in everything, top to bottom. Disney could and should do that- every single show they make. it should be banger after banger. they are maybe the only studio that can afford to do that. and instead, it seems they hire their friends, or people who share their agenda of politics but don’t have any talent. all they care about is their diversity and force is female and gay. they don’t hire real star wars fans with talent cuz they don’t care to. they threw 180 million dollars into the acolyte. that’s the biggest travesty of this show, the fact that they put all that money into it and we got… that.
in my opinion, this begins and ends with one person. who’s to blame for the biggest blunder in cinematic history that was the sequel trilogy? who’s to blame for all these garbage shows? the person in charge.
Kathleen Kennedy.
nothing will change until she’s gone. how in the f word does she still have a job?
Totally agree, this needs to defend all Disney Star Wars is baffling! To quote LOTR "all will love me and despair!"
When wanting good stories is the same as hate!? And some fans just want crap key jangling.
The best friends are those willing to be honest and tell them when they are wrong. I think that is the same for Lucasfilm and the Star Wars franchise.
I know someone who watches alot of different shows/movies and he says that they are all good. To the point where I can't take him seriously when he recommends me something. He likes literally everything.
That comment was directed towards SW EXPLAINED. Everything DISNEY has done is GOLD to them & its laughable
Any people that love explainded hate SW theory.
Why is it laughable? Is there something wrong with them liking something you might not like?
@@majorddddi like them both. Are you trying to deal with absolutes?
@@TheDCbizit’s ridiculous and extremely unlikely you absolutely love EVERYTHING. Like how do you love boba fett. At that point I wouldn’t trust your taste.
Boba Fett was overhated in what it was trying to tell the audience.
If Disney cared about the story and world building the fans would too, that’s the bare minimum when making anything fantasy/scifi.
That’s how it works, people don’t invest their time and money on something that hasn’t been curated, it isn’t worth it.
For example why would I care about the intricate details of a coven, species, characters family or conflicts if the writers just use them as surface level motivation.
You could tell George cared, the biggest criticism of the prequels it that he cared TOO much, and over did it in a few places, when it comes to cultivating a fan base that’s not the worst problem to have.
I see a lot of people likening the sequels to the prequels because they both got “hate” but the difference is you can SEE how little Disney cared. It’s almost like they are demanding people to enjoy it, rather than giving them a reason to.
The halo show literally just got canceled for the same issue, the creators openly thought their bold new ideas were better than the source material.
I went onto a very "Loving Everything Star Wars" channel here on youtube. I was curious to read the thoughts of these folks, so into the comments section I went. I would estimate 70% of the comments went along the lines of "Not real Star Wars fans", "They just want any excuse to slam The Acolyte", "Yoda is sketchy as fuck and I never trusted him. Look how he lied to Luke on Dagobah and then just threw him into a Dark Side cave." This along with the usual b.s. that since we don't like this swill we are racist, blahblah fucking blah." Yeah I found the toxic element in the fanbase and it is sure as fuck isn't here. You can love Star Wars and acknowledge its flaws. Rejecting criticism is a sign your love is too weak to survive reality. It means you don’t love this franchise enough to want it to be better. That’s the difference.
The Disney Star Wars era has been educational in all the wrong ways. You can stay in the relationship with an emotionally manipulative partner and ignore the red flags, you can stay for the fun parts and the excitement but if you want something more then setting boundaries is a must. More and more fans are setting boundaries. They’ve been forced to.
This isn’t really a topic that should ignite arguments, it’s an indicator of mindset and maturity. Being open to letting go of this connection with Star Wars, that’s a step in the right direction. I love the old movies as much as the next guy but I don’t cling to and look up to the brand like I used to. Possessive love is poison. Allow the lessons to end, and take them with you on your way forward that’s how I see it
Lived through the period between the original trilogy and the prequels. Not having new Star Wars isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Hey Thor, originally commenter here! My comment was in response to a comment I saw on Instagram. It stuck with me because as someone who loves Star Wars more than most, it makes me sad more than anything. I want Disney to succeed in making good Star Wars content, but when they continue to push out subpar content, it’s frustrating being told by some to just enjoy it for what it is. If you genuinely love a show such as the acolyte then great! But being told to enjoy something only because it has the brand name of Star Wars doesn’t sit right with me. Not everyone is always going to share the same opinion with me, but I think it’s great if they have genuine reason for their opinion and there reason isn’t because “It’s Star Wars, so just enjoy it for what it is”
I keep getting response after response on instagram that I'm just "Regurgitating RUclipsr's opinions" I watched every single minute of this show and people are acting like I can't just dislike it on my own 💀 I was happy to find this channel because this is a great place to discuss the show and Thor shares similar opinions to mine
I always talk Star Wars with a family friend who is a die hard fan, and this was the first show he ever acknowledged there was any criticism. I know how much he loves Star Wars so I only ever focused on the positives for whatever recent Star Wars show or movie was released, but this was the first time that he ever brought up that there are people who don’t like it and how he liked it regardless. It felt like this was the first time he ever had to question his own loyalty to the property, and I really didn’t think that would ever happen.
Same kinda thing happened with my nephew the day after the finale. He's just graduated HS and he loves everything Star Wars. Has his whole life, like me. Normally, we'll have a pretty long conversation about the latest show, but the morning after, he sends me a short text saying,
"2 things: I don't know what's happening or why and NO, I don't want to talk about it. "
I've yet to hear from him and he won't answer my texts. 🤣🤣🤣
@@Loki_Yogi “…No, I don’t want to talk about it.” 😂
Very well said. Not all criticizing something is not inherently wrong. I think because we are overwhelmed by criticism of all sorts of things all the time, some people cope by trying to ignore it. But they need to realize that some things need to be spoken up about, or the problems will continue. Definitely depends on the situation and the type of criticism/way it’s delivered.
When GOT came out, no one could have predicted its success. A number of people I know said they weren't interested in anything "medieval", but when they tried it, they were captivated. The setting seemed to take a back seat because the storytelling and characters were well done. And the dragons of course.
A viewer who doesn't know SW, would have wondered who that creepy man in the cave was. Either they might be intrigued and hope for an explanation in S2, or they might find the storytelling ctap because they didn't get an answer in S1.
I've tried shows which I thought were meh, dropped them and came back to them later, or just dropped them altogether. Depended on my mood I suppose.
But, I really think the Acolyte was boring and contradicted itself,and I am a casual fan. It's not rocket science to see the errors in the plot, the zig zagging of the characters' decisions making your head spin. Great for people who liked it. I didn't.
I agree. Only one note... a "casual fan" usually (emphasis on usually) doesn't leave comments on a Star Wars YT channel. I love that you are here, truly. I guess what I really mean is...
Maybe you're more than just a casual fan. 🙏
@Loki_Yogi Thank you. I don't think I am a hard core fan as I have never played the games, read the comics or bought a load of memorabilia. I have read quite a few books, got a few visual dictionaries, seen all the shows, and watched a lot of youtubers. That's the extent of my knowledge. And I am a fan who saw the OT when it came out in 1977, 80 and 83.
@@patriciafenwick5846 That pretty much describes me as well. I'll never forget the feeling I had when I saw Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi in the theater. I do enjoy the comics, but only the ones I could watch on RUclips with voice acting and sound effects. For whatever reason, I've never really spent money on comics, collectibles, etc..
But, that YT Channel is called STAR WARS AUDIO COMICS if you ever wanna check it out. There's some really good ones.
And that is exactly what happened to Andor. :(
It really makes me sad that so AWESOME show dont get even 1/10 of attention, when compared to things like Obi-Wan or Acolyte. :(
Obi-Wan has potential, but gers squandered by token caricature 101.
The biggest problem with Disney Star Wars are 8 episode/ 30 min per show seasons. They haven't figured out how to tell a story in that short time frame yet.
Disney has kind of done this to themselves by constantly shielding themselves from criticism by claiming it was all coming from racists and misogynists rather than picking out the valid criticisms and taking them on, and God knows, there was no shortage of valid criticism. This strategy was always going to blow up in their face eventually, and it's just now that time has come. Hopefully, with the viewership for The Acolyte dropping through the floor, they'll go back and look at what the valid criticisms were all along and eventually turn the ship around, although it's going to take a LOT of rebuilding of good will at this point.
Later GOT season had abysmal Acolyte level writing
Still better than acolyte.
@@MildandLazyGuy True, but still
Love this. Great commentary.
Please be an empowered consumer about things. There is no product which “deserves” our time and money.
Don’t be scared to walk away.
P.S. I fast forward through average shows and only stop if a scene looks interesting.
I love Star Wars. I also do not consider any of the Disney content to be Star Wars.
Short sweet and so true
A bunch of Ferengi have been running Disney since at least 2008. If I had to choose just one streaming service, it would be MAX (HBO) because of House of the Dragon, the new DUNE series coming and the new Harry Potter series coming. If a meteor fell and took out MAX, then it would be NETFLIX with Stranger Things, Three Body Problem and everything else on NETFLIX. Next up would be Amazon Prime, and then Paramount+ with all of the Star Trek series. I would watch TUBI with the complete Babylon 5 series ahead of Disney+, whose only future saving grace is Andor season 2, thanks to Tony Gilroy.
Hey Thor! I re-watched the LotR trilogy this weekend and the quote from Sam struck me:
“It's like the great stories, Mr. Frodo, the ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad has happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing this shadow, even darkness must pass. A new day will come, and when the sun shines, it'll shine out the clearer. I know now folks in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding on to something. That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for.”
The Acolyte just runs 180 degrees from that idea and that is it's biggest failing. What do you think about that?
I feel as though there’s a sect of people who praise everything because they want to be in the good graces of the official Star Wars account on Twitter. Certain accounts have been sent specialised care packages with exclusive goods and such and the only way to achieve this is to be annoyingly positive. Not saying some recent Star Wars hasn’t been good (I personally enjoyed TBB, Andor & TOTJ) but this just produces the ‘shill’ behaviour that conflicts against their best interest which I assume is making a lot of money.
I guess this is the way now sadly. Not my Hugo Damask
Fake fan his name is Hego Damask the Second 🤓/jk
The blanket statement "Loving everything Star Wars" is just as disingenuous as the blanket statement "How terrible everything Disney does is".
Loving everything Star Wars involves loving the whole Universe of Star Wars. If you can rank Star Wars movies, then you're already admitting that some projects are better than others. I can critique any Star Wars show with no problem, and still enjoy it.
Starting your premise with "Everything Disney has done is terrible" is, frankly, bullsh*t. These people are already predicting that each successive project will suck, and they are the problem.
As a sci-fi fan, I also enjoyed Rebel Moon, for as campy and cheesy as it was. Star Wars has always prided itself on its use of practical effects. That doesn't mean you shun greater advances in VFX.
Your breakdown, as usual, is pretty on point. Some of the problem is that Disney+ isn't necessarily paying attention to the VAST group of long-time fans that appreciate the legends lore and all of the other lore that has actually enhanced the Universe as a whole.
It's just pattern recognition and so far only Andor was a wrong prediction
“Loving everything” doesn’t make you a fan, it makes you a sheep. If you accept what you are PAYING FOR without the desire or ability to make valid criticism you will continue to receive less, in terms of quality and quantity.
You need to recognize flaws and fix them by learning from them about what went wrong.
I agree. I get quite a bit of hate social media when I post (respectfully I might add) about story details I didn't like. My favourite is when there's a really tenuous explanation about why something happened and how it's somehow consistent (e.g. Obi-Wan and Leia's adventure I just can't get past that making A New Hope making much less sense). And I didn't actually mind The Acolyte. I thought it was badly written in quite a few parts, but to your point, that's what I've come to expect after the sequels, Obi-Wan, Mando S3 and Ahsoka. For some reason they don't care about sloppy writing? Therefore, and hear me out, I'm actually looking forward to the new Rae movie. Not because I love Rae (although again I didn't hate her as much as some - just didn't like what they did to Luke, Leia and Han in context with Rae). But the Rae movie will signify clear space in the future where she (and likely Grogu) and her students will have more clear space from a writing point of view. Hopefully that will help get better stories. Because to me it seems that writers can't handle being burdened by cannon and legacy characters. Particularly Johnson and Headland seem to have really struggled to tell a Star Wars story and get their point across. With $180M at your disposal I don't see how it's that hard... Lastly can I get a like or a comment from a few people on this because I've had trouble commenting on this channel in the past. I've now made a new account so keen to see if it works this time. Thanks for the videos Thor. I enjoy them :)
This video was made for Generation Tech, wasn’t it?
I still can't believe Lesley painted her horse green and cast her in the show.
I have a friend who can't stand Star Wars and said she thinks the story is boring and stupid. I asked her what films she had seen and she said episodes 7-9, she didn't even want to try the first 6 films.
I feel like there are the fans who fall in love with a franchise because of various things like the story, world building, characters, etc and then there are the fans who just love the IP itself. Who will buy anything as long as it has the SW logo on it. They’re the ones saying we should just be happy that we’re even getting any SW content
Just imagine going to any other type of business and getting awful service, you then complain and/ or leave a bad review. If you are told shut up just be glad that they gave you something would be seen as wrong and any company who would treat their customers like that would either be out of business or the staff responsible for treating customers like that would be fired and be replaced by more competent workers.
Current Star Wars is like going to a restaurant and ordering food. While waiting for it, cook comes over and tells me that they have a cook trainee that wants to use different recipes than what I ordered and I'd have to pay some extra. And if I refuse and leave, they still demand I pay for it.
To be grateful for any Star Wars at all.
That line reminded me of a part in Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for meaning" The last cigarette story.
I don't pay for streaming. I watch what I can access through equitable methods because I value and intend to add value to equality.
If I could pay for all streaming services, from one provider, I would pay for streaming.
How I find new shows is I give them their pilot, if it intrigues me, I watch it.
For example.
Halo Season 1 was good, I thought, I hear others didn't like it, something about lore.
I played Halo's 1, 2, 3 & Reach, then I dropped off and I didn't see any lore problems at all.
I haven't seen season 2 because I can't find it anywhere in an equitable format.
I will give you this, Thor.
You and your kind will likely see more of my kind as a result of Disney's failing, if it continues.
Translation, I'm willing to pay you guys to react to bad stuff and abandon equality if this abuse continues.
I've seen people argueing that the story making sense doesn't matter it only matters about the lightsaber fights. With idiots like that ... how can the franchise ever improve?
If a company buys your favorite restaurant and replaces everything about it that made it special with worse items, you, as a "fan" of the restaurant, are not obligated to love it. You can share your frustration with the new company and expect them to, at the very least, strive to build on what made the initial menu/atmosphere/policy special.
If you just say, "Welp, I've like the building my whole life, guess I gotta be grateful they're keeping the lights on," then the company is just gonna buy more restaurants you love and do the same thing.
Yet another excellent video Thor and I agree with most everything that you said. In this day and age, it is completely unacceptable for Bridgerton (ok, I admit that I have seen all the episodes of Brigerton and I actually think it’s a good show☺️ but that’s besides the point) to have more viewers than Star Wars.
In my opinion, Star Wars is the preeminent franchise of all time. It is my dream to get an GOTish Old Republic show with excellent writing and storytelling.
As we can see from Andor, Disney does have the capability of making high quality, well thought out shows. So why are they not doing it? The script for the Acolyte should not have been green lit. It was a juvenile story at best. Why is Disney making substandard content?🤔
I love the baby yoda drawings you use throughout the video they are so cute lol
I think to be fan is more than just watching anything with star wars on it. It is a special relationship between the artist who creates a product and the fan that consumes the product. A fan that spends time and money on star wars has to have trust in the artist. Is it worth spending countless hours being invested in star wars? The artist has to prove it.
For Disney star wars? No. I think the most damaging part of the last jedi was the relevation that it is not worth to be invested in star wars. The artist Rian Johnson laughed at the fans that were invested in star wars (remember your snoke theory sucks). Afterwards star wars was for many dead.
Hey Thor, I think that The fans that are critical of Star Wars hold it to a higher standard.
I want to see Star Wars rival what Game of Thrones was, something everyone loved. We all know how impactful the franchise has been and how much potential it has. Its why we care enough to raise our voices and say "No, not good enough".
We want to see great Star Wars and are vocal about it. Plain and simple.
Hey Thor,
Good points.
We partially agree. I really did enjoy the first six episodes. I am still interested in a couple of the characters. However, the payoff fails in a big way. Episode 7 doesn't work and Episode 8 has too many logical problems (which you did a good job of pointing out.)
I don't think that the series is as terrible as people say it is. I understand if people really think it is terrible, but I also think that the show has some good moments.
I can enjoy a Star Wars show even if it is not the best that it could be or if non-Star Wars fans aren't going to like it. I want to consume Star Wars content.
You are right. The shows need to be better to attract a bigger audience. We all want better content. I was a little more forgiving because it is a TV show and not a major motion picture.
Best wishes,
John Coffey
After the disappointments of recent movies and shows in the Disney Star Wars universe, my husband was hugely disinclined towards Star Wars in general. He got back in by reading the older novels again, particularly Outbound Flight. He's content now with just reading those books rather than watching Disney movies.
Here’s the thing if you really do love something or someone and you see them doing bad things you can’t just stand by and let it happen just so you can enjoy the good bits that’s called an abusive relationship and it’s almost universal considered a bad thing that you should try to get out of if it’s unfixable.
So some these people are saying is not only stupid it’s harmful.
I'm not gonna pretend that I hate EVERYTHING Disney has done with Star Wars. I loved Rogue One, and Tales of the Jedi, and I like Ahsoka well enough despite having not seen Rebels or finished Clone Wars, and the Sequel Trilogy, Kenobi, and even The Acolyte had some really good ideas that were let down by sloppy execution. But even "seeing the good first/mostly" doesn't save a lot of these products on the whole. The Acolyte STILL has hours of writing that makes no sense, clumsy direction, and main characters that are boring as dirt.
Even though I think he got a bit too opinionated in his video, I feel like Egoraptor's summary of Skyward Sword could be applied to how Disney handles Star Wars, or at least how they think it should be received.
"You're like a spoiled rich kid, who gets everything bought for you your entire life. And then when it comes to making it out on your own, you can't take it! You expect everyone to love you, because you are who you are, part of the "illustrious Zelda lineage". "Nothing could possibly be wrong with you!" You look just like a Zelda, but you're not one. You're a pampered, doughy snob wearing nice clothes, expecting to graduate scot-free because your daddy's in alum. "Why would you need to improve? Why would you need to get any better? Everyone just agrees with your shitty ideas, because you're a Zelda."". While I personally won't go so far to say that "This isn't Star Wars", because by legal definition it IS, because they own the rights to it, the sentiment can absolutely be applied here. The same feeling of wonder and inspiration just isn't there for everybody anymore. I absolutely believe that everyone deserves to have heroes they can look up to, and that's what they claim their goal in "being more diverse" was/is. But, if you're going to have "representation", then it's all the more important to do it well, in a good product, with good writing, and relateable characters. Honestly, this felt like the Star Wars equivalent of High Guardian Spice: a show marketed on diversity and being progressive, but falls victim to countless stereotypes that they claim they're trying to break, and the end product is just a complete mess with a very small handful of genuinely good moments.
The history of the fanbase as I see it starting from the beginning (1977). Everyone loved SW - the fanbase was born - the general audience liked the OT but checked out once it was over leaving the fanbase. The fanbase started to age out and get into girls and other things but started to come back to it in the early 90's. The biggest point of contention upon reflection of the OT was the Ewoks and the poor handling of Boba Fett. I believe one of the magazines (can't remember which one) at the time had the title "Why Return of the Jedi Sucks." I can't remember the reasons other than the already mentioned above 2.
Anyway, it wasn't fandom breaking or anything after all this was before the internet. It was like "yeah it kind of did suck but I still love it."
Then the decade continued to pass and people started to go mad for anything SW again. We were all reliving out childhoods you see. The Special Edition came along and we all thought it was a pretty neat concept before we learned it would be the final version - forever.
But the rumblings about that wouldn't come until much later. After the Prequels.
The Prequels. The Phantom Menace. I don't think I have to go into too much detail here because by this time the internet was pretty healthy. This is when things started to deteriorate and fwiw I like the Prequels. But yeah, much like the current stuff they were ravished and destroyed. It's only until the generation who grew up with them started to age that they have become more accepted and loved.
So yeah, The SW fanbase has been fractured for 25 years now. I'd ramble some more but I have to eat this pizza.
Star Wars is George Lucas' franchise, everything made when he owned the rights is true Star Wars. Disney Star Wars is an imitation, high budget fan fiction. So yes ill enjoy Star Wars, as, in the 6 movies and extended material. Everything that came after 2012 means nothing to me.
EU was fanfiction. Get over it.
@@achaudhari101Did you ever see George actively disrespecting that fanfiction?
@@achaudhari101 Lucas had no issues with the EU save for Luke getting married. Any new book made in the EU had to get his approval first. But we get it you're a disney shill who loves that green milk.
@@Ihavethetouch Yes in the sense it’s not his Canon and has said that numerous times.
@@Deuteromis Well no because signing off is not the same as saying “It’s Canon as long as Luke is celibate”. Your rage towards me comes off like you can’t think.
I agree with some of the comments I want a good show, great characters, well written and something I can be vested in
That too many people will accept anything with the Star Wars label thrown on it is why we get garbage like The Acolyte.
After Andor S2(& maybe Ahsoka S2) im checking out. Ironically it was slightly before the time of the acquisition that i started getting back into the franchise.
Toxic positivity has become a HUGE issue in many different area's lately. We are all tired of being let down but people shouldn't fake being satisfied just because they don't want to be someone who complains about something.
Well put
it's like ordering Peking Duck at a restaurant and getting bland meat loaf instead!!! I want QUALITY!!! 😮💨
I did do the “watching it for the sake of watching it” for the latter seasons of the Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow TV shows when the writing quality was really declining.
And there’s of course 90s Star Trek I love, there were always mediocre or bad episodes now and then, but that was 24+ episode seasons with episodic storytelling and except for Deep Space Nine no real progressing storyline so a mediocre episode every now and then doesn’t drag down the entire show. Of course if your show only has 6-10 episodes and one or two are a dud it casts a bigger shadow on the show than if it’s one or two in 25.
I think there's a difference between enjoying something despite its faults and pretending those faults don't exist. I personally really enjoyed when Acolyte incorporated flourishes like the light whip (or "saber whip, I guess) and the legitimately cool way they used cortosis armor in combat just as I enjoyed the Beskar and Vibroblades in The Mandalorian.
Those neat things don't excuse the shoddy storytelling, however. Everything RUclips critics have been leveling at the show are legitimate and you've probably already heard most of them from the one-dimensional characters to the overall sloppy editing and kind of muddled plot.
This was a lot of the same issue with Kenobi and fans reacted similarly there. Sometimes people just want a good story and visual spectacle will only get you so far.
I am and have been a huge fan of Star Wars, and while I can pick out the good things in Disney's offerings, I'm not going to pretend that a poorly written movie or episode isn't poorly written.
I default to the positives, but I don’t shy away from criticism when it’s warranted. Extremes, whether positive or negative, annoy me. If I get into a discussion with someone about Star Wars and they start leaning to an extreme,I end it.
hey thor! i canceled my sub earlier today before seeing this video. i've watched disney kill star wars slowly. thank you for your videos. this hits the mark like many of your past videos. you're speaking to a wall though. these die-hard defenders are not living in reality, truth or do they have any objectivity whatsoever. it's sad but this is where our society is at now. let them be entertained by mediocrity. once again, thanks for your commentary.
If I want to see some great lightsaber fights I could just go back to the sequels, yes they have their flaws, but just for fights and so one of the best things we ever had in Star Wars.
Time is limited. I don't waste time with anything not excellent.
That conclusion is some of the best analysis on the state of bad quality media and repercussions of having no criticism on something I have ever heard. It makes total sense.
EDIT: I just realized that what you said there in the end can also be said abut the Democratic Party (and to the Republican party as well)
Reputation goes above profit. One may think that institutions care about profit, they don't.
I know a remarkable number of people who fall into this camp. They love it because it's Star Wars. That's it. It requires nothing more than that, and if I bring up anything of any kind about it that I didn't like, they call me a hater who is never satisfied and not a TRUE Star Wars fan. That honestly seems to be half of the audience Disney is simply banking on these days: those who will worship it no matter what. They figure that group combined with the smaller "modern audience" group will be enough to keep it profitable. Maybe it will. But they're not getting anything from me anymore.
I kinda dropped being a super-fan back after the Vong War started and mostly just kept up on what's going on, knowing the important elements to Star Wars. Then when Disney bought Star Wars i was ready to get back into being a super fan again cause I was hoping they were going to do something with the EU in the new movies. First sign something was wrong when they dumped the EU, second sign was when TFA came out and it was just a New Hope rip-off. The trailer for TLJ really got my hopes up that while they went in a different direction, Star Wars was going to be alright, then saw the movie itself...Finally when Ep9 came out I just knew Star Wars was going down a direction that was heading for doom. Sure Mando, Rogue One, were good, but seeing how Disney was streering the franchise to where The Sequels made sense and fit into the franchise I just knew it was heading to ruin. And now with the Actoltye and hearing how they have been changing lore, it won't be long before eventually they have no choice but to reboot the franchise. And when that happens, Star Wars truly has died.
This makes me wish disney had the thumbs up vs down button like netflix it'd be interesting to see numbers
To me the moment I stopped caring about starwars things became very clear, if I don’t like something , I don’t watch it, I don’t pay for it
I think the root of this problem started with Lucas and his own inconsistencies with the franchise. He tinkered so much with the story through the special editions and prequels that it created fractures in what the franchise even means. It's a massive fanbase all seeing something slightly different from everyone else.
The canon becomes way more subjective to people based on which parts of it they're familiar with. Two fans can look at the same event and one will see it as completely consistent while the other will think it makes absolutely no sense. I saw TLJ as completely consistent with the lore and honoring the franchise I know while other people saw it as completely trashing the characters and spitting on the franchise they know.
The sad thing about the people who enjoy lightsaber fights is that I'm kinda one of them, but my "lightsaber fight" , metaphorically speaking, is a really good space battle . And while we've gotten a few good lightsaber fights in Disney's stuff, we have dick diddly for space battles that are interesting at all. Except for the last half of Rogue One.
3:45 the actual video starts. Before that is the usual "I don't mean this and that, and I understand this and that" he always wastes everyone's time with.