Hello Steve, Thanks for the very informative video, I’ve had DP for awhile but learning it’s operating procedures has been a slow process. I’ve mainly been using the small 8 track Tascam recorder for simple demo arrangements for copyrights. I’m an older guy and want to when working with singers have more of a palate of orchestral colors when doing arrangements. Your videos have helped a lot. Thanks. Fritz
That dissonant ambiance under the fast-fowarding segments was cool, but distracting and counter-productive to a learning environment. Thanks for doing this video, it shows that DP can be a very competent DAW.
I liked this video a lot. The fast forwarding combined with that atmosphere sounds gave me the impression of someone´s working from outer space in a spaceship =D. Very nice and organized way of working. I´m on Cubase 8.5 but I actually like the looks of DP better =)
Thanks for the comment. I'm glad you like the style. One of my goals is to add more production in the videos to make them as interesting, informative and exciting as possible. I'll have a video out in a couple days or sooner called "The Top 10 New Features in VEP6 and How To Use Them". Cubase is nice. It's certainly one of the better DAWs. Probably my 2nd favorite DAW. I like its VST Expression Maps and VST Dynamics. But, no offense to Cubase, I find Digital Performer better organized, more feature rich, and an excellent and very efficient companion to Vienna Ensemble Pro, and among other things, as you pointed out, DP is great to look at when setup right. DP is probably the most misunderstood of the big 3 composing DAWs (DP, Cubase and Logic). But once you get up to speed on DP, it's a joy to work with. I have many videos on the way. If you have any requests, just let me know. Thanks again!
Thank you Steeve for your good job ! I just got the VE Pro6 with my DP 9.1 For mixing, how is it possible to have more than one instance in the mixer ? Say Woodwinds and Strings. Because when you click on a tab you only see that tab and I would like all the symphonic family. Thanks for your help !
Are you saying you'd like to have the woodwind and strings in one tab (same mixer) in VEP? If so, use the Instruments with Option in DP to add as many MIDI tracks as you like for that one instance of VEP (you can do the whole orchestra in one tab if you like), and then connect to VEP. If you select all of your MIDI channels in DP's Tracks window and hit Option-A, you'll get a track assignment dialog. With a couple of clicks you can route every MIDI channel in DP to the correct MIDI channel in VEP. If that's not what you were asking, just let me know.
Thank you Steve ! Now I understand that you can put as many tracks as you want into an instance and that instance, which becomes a tab, is a full part of a mix. So, Yes !, if I want WW and Strings all together for mixing, I need one instance of WW AND Strings. Or full Orchestra in one instance. That's clear now and you confirm it to me ! Thanks again !
I cannot find an answer to a set up. I have a mono audio track in Digital Performer 9.5 and would like to see it in Vienna Ensemble 6. Can you give me a step by step set up explanation please ? Thank you !
faonfaon Sure. I just want to make sure I understand what you’re trying to do. You have a mono audio track in DP that you want to bus to VEP to process it in MIR or some other plugin, then send it back to DP for mixdown. Is that about right? Or do you have some other workflow you’re trying to setup? First, sending audio or AUX tracks from DP to VEP is very easy. I usually do this if I want to process something in one of the big MIR halls. Otherwise there’s not a many reasons why you have to do this unless for some reason you need to side chain an instrument or plugin. So I did make a video for you, but I just wanted to verify what you’re doing. One catch too. You can’t send MONO audio tracks from DP to VEP. You can send STEREO Audio tracks all day long. However if you have a 5.1 or some other surround format you could then send a center channel but that goes beyond the scope of what you’re trying to do. First, open VEP by itself and go to Preferences. Under the Instances tab, under Connection Settings, make sure you have some Audio Inputs, (you can enter an odd number so that you get pairs of stereo tracks plus one mono track, however Audio is always bussed through as stereo or surround). After you’ve added, let’s say 16 Audio Inputs, you have to quit and reopen VEP so it will publish its Inputs and DP will see them. Back in DP, connect to an instance of VEP like normal. Then either bus your mono track to a stereo AUX track or put a Mono to Stereo plugin on the channel, (it won’t change the sound if you don’t engage any processing - it just makes the track stereo so you can do the next few steps, and of course you can bounce it back to mono later). Next, in the 2nd Insert place the VSL Vienna Ensemble Pro Audio Input MAS (stereo) plugin in the channel. (You won’t see this plugin on mono tracks, (that’s why you need a stereo Aux track or a Mono to Stereo plugin before it). Open the VSL plugin. On the right side of the plugin there is a drop down menu that shows VEPs stereo input channels. Assign 1-2 to this first plugin. Then click the Assign button and connect to the VEP instance where you’re going to send the audio. It will be in the list that opens up. Go back to VEP. Go to the Channel menu. Go to Insert Input/Plug-in. Follow the submenu to Inputs>Input and choose IN 1/ IN 2. Go back to DP and create an AUX track. Set it’s input to a New Stereo Bundle - Vienna Ensemble Pro 1 Out 3-4. Go back to VEP and set that new channel’s output to Out 3 / Out 4. That’s it. When you press play, the audio will stream to VEP where you can process it in VEP’s mixer using plug-ins or MIR. If you’re hearing the audio that means that you bussed it successfully back to DP. You can then send the AUX track to an Audio Track in DP, record enable it and print it. Or you can create a new Audio track in DP and return the audio straight there. You don’t have to go through an AUX track first. I usually do as it gives me more control. Hope that helps. It seems complicated but it’s really easy. If you can’t get it to work let me know and I’ll post the video I made. It takes less than a minute to configure a new VEP instance, add the VEP Audio Input MAS plug-in and route both midi and audio Inputs to VEP and back to DP.
Wahh ! Steeve thank you for your generosity ! YES ! My problem is this one that you describe. I am going to follow your step by step and will tell you. Thanks a lot !
ok steve hope you are doing well. it took me a week to load all my programs on the mac pro but it's done, i need a little more help to get running. if i take my ethernet cable from my mac pro right into the imac everything is working, but when i put all the cables in a gigabit desktop switch digital performer does not see a server. i have the tp-link tl-sg10 hub.
CollectiveVoice I saw your email. I'll reply before the weekend is over. Basically you need to make note of your MacPro's IP address md enter it manually in VEP's plugin interface for DP to see it. If you're using wifi on your iMac you may encounter problems.
hi steve hope your year is off to a great start. in vep 6 can you help me out? on each channel i see i can add: ve pro plugin midi 1, ve pro plugin midi 2, and so on what does that mean? and also i don't understand thread count? thanks for all you do :-)
You're welcome. I'm going to up my game in 2017. Watch out for some info packed vids soon. Those two menus at the top that say 1 and All are the MIDI ports and then the MIDI channels. This is the beauty of VEP with either Digital Performer or Cubase. Not only do you get 16 MIDI channel in each instance, you also get 48 ports in DP and 32 ports in Cubase. Each port has 16 MIDI channels. So, VEP's preferences, in the Instances tab, you can set the MIDI ports to 48 (in DP). that gives you 768 MIDI channels in just one instance of VEP! Most people don't know about MIDI ports. A single synth will have 16 MIDI channels. But consider each channel in VEP as a port, that is a separate instrument that has 16 MIDI channels. Watch my video Top 10 features of VEP6 and how to use them ruclips.net/video/9whfRMMwxeQ/видео.html. That might give you your answer. However, I'm working on a template build video that will show you how to best set up VEP6 with DP and I will cover MIDI port and channel assignments in great detail. About the tread count.. Thread almost means the same thing as CPU cores. If you have an 8-core Mac Pro, then you have 16 threads (8 physical cores, and 8 hyperthread cores). What CPU do you have in your Mac or PC? And in VEP's prefs under Multiprocessing, how many threads show up in the pull down menu? The tread count tells VEP6 how many CPU cores to multitask on. If you have an 8-core Xeon, and you are using four instances of VEP, set the thread count to 3 or 4. That means that those four instances each gets to use 3 or 4 of the cores, (3 x4 = 12 cores out of 16 total cores leaving a couple of cores for the OS and DAW). If you have an 8-core CPU and you use just one instance of VEP set the thread count to 12 or 13 (that leaves 3 or 4 cores for the OS and DAW). Maybe I'll go over that again in my next VEP video. Hope that helps for now.
Great video, thanks a lot! I'm a Digital Performer and VEPRO addicted.... Can I have some information about the RAID storage and how it can be used for SAMPLES ?
Hi Steve :-)). I work with a Mac mini Server (Late 2012), 2,3 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3, DP9.1and Vepro 6. Sometimes everything is on my Mac and sometimes (for big projects) I add a PC Intel Core i7 64GB RAM as slave via ethernet and Vepro6 installed there...
So here's the deal with the m.2 RAIDs for sample libraries. All samplers still use DFD (only some of the samples are loaded into RAM while the rest get streamed from the disk). In Kontakt you can actually turn this off but for some templates it's not advisable. What I did was buy a 16 lane PCIe card that holds four m.2 sticks. I bought four Samsung SM951s and striped them (RAID 0) so that I could let Konatkt use it as a buffer. I have my Kontakt preload buffer size set at 240Kbs (nobody does that). That's how fast this RAID is. 5700MB/s read speeds! Samples load so fast sometimes the load meter doesn't even show up. t never drop voices.
pt2 - If your PC has a 16 lane PCIe slot you could do the same. You've got the right amount of RAM, although depending on how many cores your i7 has, (you're not gonna like this), you should consider getting a Xeon based system. DP and VEP are MADE for multi threading and the more you have the better. I have two 12-core MPs, for a total of 24 cores (48 virtual cores). And I didn't spend as much as you'd think. Less than $3000 for each MP. If you want to know where to get the card just let me know. With Thunderbolt 2 on your Mini you could get an external PCIe box and RAID two SM951s and max out the TB bus. That would at least be something. 2000MB/s reads or so.
Thank you Steve, for your detailed reply, now I have something to think about. you wrote "... I could let Kontakt use it as a buffer... " I' totally new to Samsung SM951Samsung SM95 and I don't know how they works... Are they working as RAM or are something like SSD ? If yes do you have libraries stored there ( "... I could let Kontakt use it as a buffer... " )? Thank you for great patience
It's so dark looking compared to my DP5. Is there a way to change background colors for the sequencer? And is there still a button to open an individual track somewhere on the transport controls, or do you have to double click now?
MOTU started adding skins in DP7. No offense but DP5 was the ugliest version they ever put out with the round buttons and all. 8 and 9 are really great looking. This theme is called Non More Black, which is true. It makes Logic X look light grey. They have plenty of themes so go download a copy and see if your machine cane at least do some work. Perhaps mastering. I've kept all my old versions going back to 1.7. Just missed 5 and some of 6 during a very long project.
Thanks - yeah if they let you customize the look with different skins I might be more interested. Oh no - Command-G is quantize now? I'm so used to just highlighting stuff and using _one hand_ to open the quantizer.
Pt1 - My mistake. Jeez, what a messed up typo! Quantize is Command-0 (zero). Command-9 is transpose. Also, there is a Commands windows that is the best out there. Not only does it list all of the keystrokes in DP in a searchable, configureable and floating window. But you can change any and all of them, have Chunks saved to them and export them/import them at another studio. MOTU has added a lot of nice features with v7, v8 and v9. Theme's can be customized if you're willing to open the DP Package contents. I made a few with mine. ampguimods.net makes custom themes. And many you can make many changes yourself very easily (different text color, mixer fader changes). There is an area beneath the control panel but above the tracks window called the Tracks Inspector, and that area is called the Tracks Inspector. You can select any track, any insert, send and I/O in this area and it's contextual. MOTU has put a the ability to have a Tracks Selector on either the left or right sidebar, and in each window it pertains too. The Classic theme is still available. Look at my first "HOW TO DP and Vienna Ensemble Pro" video. You see the Classic theme there. Honestly Andrew, since Consolidated Windows, MOTU has been hard at work giving DP one of the best GUIs in the business. Now if they would do a massive overall of QuickScribe.
hi steve, i picked up vienna ensemble 6 while it was on sale. i used it for the first time today (monday). when i open my vep6 in 64bit so i can use sample tank 3 none of the sample loaded. everything in 32bit is working great. can you thin of anything to help me out? also did you do a video using vep6 with kontakt 5 routing?
I've heard some people having trouble loading VEP5 projects. I haven't run into that problem so I'm not sure what to tell you. So, none of Sample Tanks samples loaded or Sample Talk itself didn't load? Would it be a big pain to just reload the samples or do you not remember which samples, multis and fx were loaded in which channels? One guess.. Try opening your template in VEP5 (hopefully you saved a copy of VEP5 - or you can just re-download it from VSL), and save all of the SampleTank channels as "Save Channel Set". Then in VEP6 choose "Insert Channel Set". Let me know how that goes. I suppose you could load an instance and then choose "Merge Project..", then sort it out. That's not ideal I understand. I did a video about Kontakt optimization here ruclips.net/video/4BJNRhZLZww/видео.html but not about Kontakt routing. What did you want to know? I'll knock out a quick vid for you. What DAW are you using again?
hi steve i've been with dp since performer and i remember and still have all my manuals. i was wondering did you upgrade to dp 9.1 i did had to go back to 9.02 the program would crash. also how do you like vienna ensemble pro 6 thinking about getting it while it's on sale.
Hi CV. I've had no problems with 9.1 although with the new engine there are some things MOTU is patching up. Before you download 9.1, rename your current DP app to DP 9.02 so 9.1 won't overwrite it. Try pulling the MOTU folder in the Preferences directory and let DP9.1 create a fresh prefs file. Make sure your MOTU Audio Drivers are updated. I know that's not much help but I haven't had any issues myself. Concerning VEP6, I'll have a VEP6 Top 10 New Features video up tomorrow. I think you'll see that I do like the update. It's worth the $85 upgrade price. Plus if you have any issues with it you can go back to VEP5 until an update comes out. That's my plan. I'm only having one issue with DP9.1/VEP6 but I need to talk to Paul at VSL about it before I say anything publicly. Bottom line, get VEP6 while it's on sale even if you're not ready to use it. The new features are nice and the optimized engine is a good thing (which should be in my video). The mixer section is much more functional.
This was interesting but way over my head. I haven't been able to get a basic, yet comprehensive description of just what VEP is, how it works and why I should get it. Maybe you could do a video on it. I use DP with a single Mac Pro, no slaves, real basic. However, I'm experiencing problems with DP 9.12 in conjunction with 5 instances of EW Play 5.0. I've been encouraged to get VEP as if it were a panacea. But I'm skeptical of adding another level of complexity to an already unstable system. Thanks!
Maybe that's a good idea for a video. If you don't mind my opinion, DP 9.1 and up placed great strain on everyone's system. I held out as long as I could but I went back to 9.02 and will stay there until MOTU fully optimizes DP's new engine. If your system worked fine with 9.02, go back to what you had. The thing about VEP is this. You'll know when you need it. For example DP can handle about 20-30GBs of memory usage before it hits the wall. VEP can go past 80GBs and beyond. When DP can no longer handle your template, you need VEP, even if it's on one machine.
If you want, send me some direct questions concerning your confusion about VEP and I'll answer them either in a video or in an email with some short video examples. VEP is actually very awesome and well built. Think about how many things a DAW has to do. Noting slows a DAW down to a crawl like VIs and sample libraries. VEP is essentially a VI and sample lib holder so your DAW is free to keep a low CPU and RAM footprint therefore keeping your DAW light and fast for everything else it has to do. It's like an external Vrack. That's it. I give it my highest recommendation. It's very easy to use and is massively stable (especially with DP). Try the demo. You'll need a Steinberg key though.
Why did MOTU release 9.12 as a maintenance release when it didn't address and fix the problems in 9.1? They see it as some sort of anomaly in my system (which is as basic as you can get) which they cannot reproduce? Really? All these technical rabbits are distracting me from getting my work done. So back to 9.02. I wish I had more detailed questions for you, but I'm kind of a slow learner with Vienna stuff. Like, is that virtual stage gui part of VEP? You have to start at the bottom with me. Thanks for your responses, Steve
+Ken Nickels I've had a busy last couple of months so I can't answer the DP update issue. I'll check soon. DP already had the pre-gen feature available for plugins (in 9.02 or before you can turn it on or off in the prefs or in a plugin's mini menu), so I don't know what happened. I'll probably do a video about it soon though. About VEP, the virtual stage is a separate app that VSL sells called MIR. It's basically a convolution reverb with a virtual stage integrated into VEP (sold separately). Ignore that part. Do you use the Vracks feature in DP? VEP is basically the same thing as Vracks but instead of being in DP, VEP is a separate app. So imagine if Vracks was a separate app that you could load all of your VIs into. The #1 thing that slows down a DAW is a bunch of VIs and plugins. So instead of bogging down DP, you let VEP take the VI load and let DP just deal with MIDI data and audio files. That way DP runs quick and lean.
Hi Steve, First off, your videos are immensely helpful so thank you very much! Second, I have a bit of an issue with latency from Ve Pro 5 to my DAW (DP8). I've tried everything and have googled and youtube'd a ton and can't seem to fix the issue. Basically I have DP8 running on my main machine and Ve Pro 5 on my slave. Everything is setup the way it should be but for whatever reason the latency when i record a midi track onto my main machine is about a split second off. It's not that noticeable but when I'm playing to a click, it's VERY noticeable. Can you suggest something/help?
Phil White Have you tried adjusting the buffer setting on the VEP server interface (the VEP plugin interface)? You can choose different buffer settings (4, 3, 2, 1 or 0), that refer to sample return time listed also as milliseconds at the bottom right on the plugin. Look at 2:32 in this video right after the fast forward starts and the VEP plugin opens. You access the buffers for each instance at the bottom right of those. It will make your CPU run harder of course but if you're trying to play parts in via MIDI it's a trade off that you sometimes have to make. After recording, raise the buffers back up for mixing so the CPU isn't taxed unnecessarily. Hope that helps.
Neal Cain I add the extra measure by choosing Add Measures.. in the Project menu, so at the beginning of the project I get a bit of a “lead off” that can contain KSs, CCs, etc..which resets the virtual instrument so it’s in its best state when asked to play. Helps with dropped voices, too.
Excellent, Steve. Any way I could get the video at real time?!?! You cover the whole process very nicely. Getting ready to delve into setting up very similar setup to yours - Mac pro DP9 VEP 2x i7 - 6700K 2x 1tssd + 64GB ram Best regards, Steve Greene
Several people have asked for that. But It would be extremely long, and would take some editing (if I even kept the original screen capture). But one of my next videos will be how to build a "complete" DP/VEP template. I think it will be exactly what you want. In this video I built just enough of an orchestral template to sketch something. There won't be any composing in the new video so I'll be able to focus on getting in every detail of building a DP/VEP template including what I think is the best way DP should be configured, (I fine tuned that recently). Btw, nice setup you have. If you want to discuss anything in the meantime, let me know!
This is a great video, thanks for doing it! I'm a long time VEP user, but just switched to DP from Pro Tools and Logic. So far I love it. One question I have is about the CCs you set up in your negative bar. Did you do this to help reset expressions with the mod wheel? I noticed how badly Pro Tools always handled this. Second question, if that's the case, do you do that for each chunk you're using for your cues? And do you always setup a negative bar to start each chunk/sequence/etc??
Eric Rickey I set up a negative bar or bars for a couple of reasons, although it’s mainly an old workflow habit. One is to reset CCs like you said, but also to give DP and the CPU extra time to pre-render, to fill up the buffer, and so that DP and VE Pro don’t hit the first core of the CPU at almost the same exact time, (although DP has other ways of handling this - the Prime Milliseconds setting and some of the features in DP’s updated MAS engine for example). Also, if I need a pickup measure, and I know I’m going to export to Finale I like having it available without having to stop to create one. I have a keystroke that takes me to measure one (Cmnd T and 1 - you can do this several ways including using Metagrid which is awesome), and a keystroke that creates a selection from bar one, so the negative bars don’t get in the way when I don’t want them. You could also put a Marker at measure one and rewind to that if that’s your intention. Cmnd T + 1 is fast though. With today’s CPUs and flash drives it’s not as necessary to have negative measures, but old habits die hard. Because my main orchestral/film template has about 1000 tracks, even with today’s hardware I still try to do everything in advance to make sure I can lower latency when needed, to make sure I never get dropped voices or pops and cracks, etc. Most of my other sequences (Chunks) have a negative measures or measures. Oh, welcome to DP! You’re in a great community.
cool thanks for the reply, yeah I'm pumped, but I actually have a project starting soon, so I'm trying to fast-track my transition to DP so I can move as quickly as I normally would. Would you mind sharing any tips about the back-end DP settings you mentioned from this video? Like the Prime Milliseconds settings and the like? I'm trying to build some templates. I'm actually finding the "clippings" very useful.
Eric Rickey Clippings are essential. I’ve thought about making a “Best DP lesser known features” type of video or a Clippings video about how I use them, because you’re right, Clippings are very useful. MIDI Device Groups are another. I record a lot of doubled parts that way (Flutes/Violin 1, etc..). About helping you with DP Settings optimization tips, sure I don’t mind helping out at all, just keep in mind that DAW/VE Pro builds are part of my business. Also, what I’m using in this video might not be the most efficient for your setup. I’ve rebuilt my template, and spent months refining it, so it’s different now. That said, tell me your computer(s) specs, your main sample libraries for your orchestra (you’re doing orchestral, right?), and tell me what you’re using for a controller. On that note, in the next few months, I’ll have a complete DP/VE Pro/Controller templates bundle for sale on my website and the price will be VERY low. I’ve spent a year perfecting what I think will be the most modern and powerful bundle of templates publicly available, and for a ridiculously low price everyone will have instant access to the same templates (or better), that the a-list composers have. The first one will make the Finale-Digital Performer-VE Pro crowd happy but I intend to build near-clone templates for Cubase and Logic users, as well as Sibelius and Notion users.
Steve - how are you dealing with keeping VEPro running in real time and not pregen? Considering you're running DP9.1x you've lost the ability to globally turn off pregen. It's why I've stayed on 9.02
musicman8942 Are you referring to the 9.1 new engine issue? It’s fine now (9.5). VEP has to run in Real-time. That’s how you can put it in a Vrack and let DP sequences share VEP instances (it had to keep running- but that was a long time ago)..I skipped 9.1, (or went back to 9.0.1 then jumped to 9.2 I think). When MOTU first rebuilt the MAS pregen/real-time engine, VIs that had to stay in real-time had some performance issues as you know. However, IMO, it’s now working fine. I’m using the latest version of DP, (9.5.1 I think), and am having no problems with huge templates. The new Effects Monitor is great too. Lowering the CPU buffer size is better now too. The audio buffer feels different but everything is working fine. Maybe try 9.5.1 on a different boot volume if you can and see what you think. I hope that answered your question.
I've tried DP9.5 and I have to either keep the gui open or have a MIDI track routed to VEPro 6 record enabled to keep VEPro 6 from going into pregen mode. I don't use V-Racks; I only run one sequence at a time. Maybe 9.51r2 is the fix? Also what OSX version are you running? OSX 10.10.5 here.
musicman8942 Well I tried every permutation of every combination of VEP with MIDI tracks pointing to and not pointing to, record enabled and not record enabled, plugin floating, plugin open, plugin closed, VE Pro loaded with instrument, not loaded with instrument, coupled and decoupled, and anything else I could think of and with the Effect Performance window open the entire time I could not make VEP go into pregen mode. It stayed in RT mode, said it could only be RT, and the RT check mark was greyed out. I even made a video of it if you need to see it. All software most recent I believe: DP v9.51 74138 VEP 6.0.16502 macOS 10.12.6 (got brave) Mac Pro 4,1/5,1
Thanks for trying. It may be a combo of OSX 10.10.5 and DP9.50 and VEPro (latest version). I raised a Techlink with MOTU and will see what happens. I'll have to see if DP9.51r2 works.
Hi Steve, amazing video! I’m a pretty new worker with large orchestral templates (Logic user here) and I’ve got two basic questions for you: 1. Is a master/slave - VEP setup convenient to handle a 100+ tracks orchestral project with no cpu/ram issues? Or would it be better to have all the stuff in a single powerful computer? 2. the gigabit Ethernet connection is stable enough to have a good performance with no drops/spikes? * I’m working with my poor 16bg ram 2013 MBP and I’m trying to adopt the best solution to manage large orchestral scores, between A. Just installing VEP on it B. Go for a master/slave setup (with a 64gb ram pc) Which do you think would be the best? Thx a lot, any suggestion much appreciated!
giulio pirondini Hi Giulio. The short answers are yes, yes and B, get a VE Pro slave. IMO, VE Pro and a host/slave are necessary. VE Pro will help out Logic a lot by lifting the burden of hosting all of those sample libraries. At some point DAWs start to struggle when their memory footprint gets bloated. VE Pro doesn’t have this problem because it was built to do this. When my full template is enabled it’s footprint is +120GBs. Long answer: I’m using two 12-core Mac Pros for my host/slave setup. It’s very stable. Ethernet has plenty of bandwidth for moving many channels of stereo audio, no problem. I had that question too at first. It works perfectly though. It’s very easy to manage, you just need to make the whole start up and shut down sequence part of your routine, which is easy. Yes, with a 16GB MacBook, you’ll definitely need a slave. I highly recommend a Xeon-based 12-core (or more), Mac or PC, with at least 64GBs of RAM and several SSDs. Try to balance out your sample libraries across several SSDs based on size, load time and general CPU % usage. Regarding your first question, if you had a current Mac Pro or PC with a 12 or more core Xeon, 128GBs of RAM, and multiple m.2 SSDs then you could get by with one machine. Some people will tell you they get by on a single machine just fine, and maybe they do but I haven’t been able to with a 12-core, 64GB, multi SSD machine. Even though I’ve got everything optimized to the max, I make a lot of use of the multiple mic position libraries by Orchestral Tools, Spitfire and VSL, and when you have all of those loaded up and are trying to play them back, you need a lot of RAM and CPU horsepower. I don’t use the multiple mic positions until I mix down (I use the mix or tree mic when composing), and I might be more of an extreme user than some other composers, but still, a serious orchestral template that uses the latest OT, SF and VSL libs will need one or two computers to work. We’re getting really close to a point where one computer will be able to handle it all, but the sample library developers keep adding mic positions, legato samples, release samples, and growing the overall size of their libraries. I think OT’s Berlin Brass takes up about 90 or 100GBs on my SSD. If you’re a hardcore Mac user and for whatever reasons don’t want to buy a PC, you can do what many of us have done, and that’s to buy a used 2009 Mac Pro, then upgrade the firmware, the CPUs, the RAM, and the drives. These upgraded Mac Pros run extremely (and surprisingly) fast. I bought and upgraded mine for about $2,500. They hold up to 128GBs of RAM (macsales.com sells this RAM). I’ve got m.2 SSDs in the PCIe slots and they’re fast. You can also buy a USB-C PCIe card for $99 from Sonnet. A PC slave is fine, but I thought I’d tell you about the cheap Mac option. I, and many others, have videos about the upgrade. Just search “4,1 to 5,1 Mac Pro upgrade” or “2009 Mac Pro 12-core Westmere upgrade”. If you find the video on my channel (not my best video), it will lead to more detailed videos. Hope that helped.
midiland It was meant to be an overview video. Use the Speed feature in RUclips to slow the video down as much as you need. Or download the video, strip the audio, slow down the video and listen to the voiceover where needed.
There's no doubt you know your stuff with using DP but I really didn't like the FF approach as it should go without saying that especially with new users of DP this style of presentation doesn't help the viewer. 90% of what was demonstrated would be missed completely by a newbie. I appreciate it takes time to put together tutorials but there's no point if in rushing it as that on it's own will defeat the purpose of the video. There are not enough online resources for DP users and Motu need to take a much more positive approach to this if they'd like to grow their share of the DAW market. So in a nutshell well done for doing this video but I thought your delivery was good but needs more detail and please slow it down.
Rick Brown Then I hope you’ll be glad to know then that I have an exhaustive series on Digital Performer planed for spring or early summer of this year (2019) that’s going to take the user from the very beginning of DP, to the most complex orchestra/film score workflow, and separately, I’m going to cover an audio tracking/mixing/mastering session. Probably about 50 videos total or more. Stay tuned. If you have any suggestions for areas of DP that you’d like to see in particular, let me know. But I plan on covering everything. An online manual if you will.
This is a very old video. If I wouldn’t have sped it up it would have been too long for the time limit I used to have on my channel. You can slow down the video in your browser during sections you really need to see.
Hello Steve,
Thanks for the very informative video, I’ve had DP for awhile but learning it’s operating procedures has been a slow process. I’ve mainly been using the small 8 track Tascam recorder for simple demo arrangements for copyrights. I’m an older guy and want to when working with singers have more of a palate of orchestral colors when doing arrangements. Your videos have helped a lot. Thanks. Fritz
That dissonant ambiance under the fast-fowarding segments was cool, but distracting and counter-productive to a learning environment.
Thanks for doing this video, it shows that DP can be a very competent DAW.
I liked this video a lot. The fast forwarding combined with that atmosphere sounds gave me the impression of someone´s working from outer space in a spaceship =D. Very nice and organized way of working. I´m on Cubase 8.5 but I actually like the looks of DP better =)
Thanks for the comment. I'm glad you like the style. One of my goals is to add more production in the videos to make them as interesting, informative and exciting as possible. I'll have a video out in a couple days or sooner called "The Top 10 New Features in VEP6 and How To Use Them". Cubase is nice. It's certainly one of the better DAWs. Probably my 2nd favorite DAW. I like its VST Expression Maps and VST Dynamics. But, no offense to Cubase, I find Digital Performer better organized, more feature rich, and an excellent and very efficient companion to Vienna Ensemble Pro, and among other things, as you pointed out, DP is great to look at when setup right. DP is probably the most misunderstood of the big 3 composing DAWs (DP, Cubase and Logic). But once you get up to speed on DP, it's a joy to work with.
I have many videos on the way. If you have any requests, just let me know. Thanks again!
Hi - Appreciate you sharing your set-up between DP 9.1 and VEPro 6. It gave me another option in creating templets for DP9.1 & VEPro 6. Thanks!
Hi Steve
Does this video apply just as well to DP 9.2? Also, I'd love to slow this baby down so I can really see what you are doing. Just sayin'...
Thank you Steeve for your good job ! I just got the VE Pro6 with my DP 9.1
For mixing, how is it possible to have more than one instance in the mixer ?
Say Woodwinds and Strings.
Because when you click on a tab you only see that tab and I would like all the symphonic family.
Thanks for your help !
Are you saying you'd like to have the woodwind and strings in one tab (same mixer) in VEP? If so, use the Instruments with Option in DP to add as many MIDI tracks as you like for that one instance of VEP (you can do the whole orchestra in one tab if you like), and then connect to VEP. If you select all of your MIDI channels in DP's Tracks window and hit Option-A, you'll get a track assignment dialog. With a couple of clicks you can route every MIDI channel in DP to the correct MIDI channel in VEP. If that's not what you were asking, just let me know.
Thank you Steve ! Now I understand that you can put as many tracks as you want into an instance and that instance, which becomes a tab, is a full part of a mix.
So, Yes !, if I want WW and Strings all together for mixing, I need one instance of WW AND Strings. Or full Orchestra in one instance.
That's clear now and you confirm it to me !
Thanks again !
I cannot find an answer to a set up.
I have a mono audio track in Digital Performer 9.5 and would like to see it in Vienna Ensemble 6. Can you give me a step by step set up explanation please ? Thank you !
faonfaon Sure. I just want to make sure I understand what you’re trying to do. You have a mono audio track in DP that you want to bus to VEP to process it in MIR or some other plugin, then send it back to DP for mixdown. Is that about right? Or do you have some other workflow you’re trying to setup? First, sending audio or AUX tracks from DP to VEP is very easy. I usually do this if I want to process something in one of the big MIR halls. Otherwise there’s not a many reasons why you have to do this unless for some reason you need to side chain an instrument or plugin.
So I did make a video for you, but I just wanted to verify what you’re doing. One catch too. You can’t send MONO audio tracks from DP to VEP. You can send STEREO Audio tracks all day long. However if you have a 5.1 or some other surround format you could then send a center channel but that goes beyond the scope of what you’re trying to do.
First, open VEP by itself and go to Preferences. Under the Instances tab, under Connection Settings, make sure you have some Audio Inputs, (you can enter an odd number so that you get pairs of stereo tracks plus one mono track, however Audio is always bussed through as stereo or surround). After you’ve added, let’s say 16 Audio Inputs, you have to quit and reopen VEP so it will publish its Inputs and DP will see them.
Back in DP, connect to an instance of VEP like normal. Then either bus your mono track to a stereo AUX track or put a Mono to Stereo plugin on the channel, (it won’t change the sound if you don’t engage any processing - it just makes the track stereo so you can do the next few steps, and of course you can bounce it back to mono later). Next, in the 2nd Insert place the VSL Vienna Ensemble Pro Audio Input MAS (stereo) plugin in the channel. (You won’t see this plugin on mono tracks, (that’s why you need a stereo Aux track or a Mono to Stereo plugin before it). Open the VSL plugin. On the right side of the plugin there is a drop down menu that shows VEPs stereo input channels. Assign 1-2 to this first plugin. Then click the Assign button and connect to the VEP instance where you’re going to send the audio. It will be in the list that opens up.
Go back to VEP. Go to the Channel menu. Go to Insert Input/Plug-in. Follow the submenu to Inputs>Input and choose IN 1/ IN 2. Go back to DP and create an AUX track. Set it’s input to a New Stereo Bundle - Vienna Ensemble Pro 1 Out 3-4. Go back to VEP and set that new channel’s output to Out 3 / Out 4. That’s it.
When you press play, the audio will stream to VEP where you can process it in VEP’s mixer using plug-ins or MIR. If you’re hearing the audio that means that you bussed it successfully back to DP. You can then send the AUX track to an Audio Track in DP, record enable it and print it. Or you can create a new Audio track in DP and return the audio straight there. You don’t have to go through an AUX track first. I usually do as it gives me more control.
Hope that helps. It seems complicated but it’s really easy. If you can’t get it to work let me know and I’ll post the video I made. It takes less than a minute to configure a new VEP instance, add the VEP Audio Input MAS plug-in and route both midi and audio Inputs to VEP and back to DP.
Wahh ! Steeve thank you for your generosity ! YES ! My problem is this one that you describe. I am going to follow your step by step and will tell you. Thanks a lot !
ok steve hope you are doing well. it took me a week to load all my programs on the mac pro but it's done, i need a little more help to get running. if i take my ethernet cable from my mac pro right into the imac everything is working, but when i put all the cables in a gigabit desktop switch digital performer does not see a server. i have the tp-link tl-sg10 hub.
CollectiveVoice I saw your email. I'll reply before the weekend is over. Basically you need to make note of your MacPro's IP address md enter it manually in VEP's plugin interface for DP to see it. If you're using wifi on your iMac you may encounter problems.
hi steve hope your year is off to a great start. in vep 6 can you help me out? on each channel i see i can add: ve pro plugin midi 1, ve pro plugin midi 2, and so on what does that mean? and also i don't understand thread count? thanks for all you do :-)
You're welcome. I'm going to up my game in 2017. Watch out for some info packed vids soon. Those two menus at the top that say 1 and All are the MIDI ports and then the MIDI channels. This is the beauty of VEP with either Digital Performer or Cubase. Not only do you get 16 MIDI channel in each instance, you also get 48 ports in DP and 32 ports in Cubase. Each port has 16 MIDI channels. So, VEP's preferences, in the Instances tab, you can set the MIDI ports to 48 (in DP). that gives you 768 MIDI channels in just one instance of VEP! Most people don't know about MIDI ports. A single synth will have 16 MIDI channels. But consider each channel in VEP as a port, that is a separate instrument that has 16 MIDI channels. Watch my video Top 10 features of VEP6 and how to use them ruclips.net/video/9whfRMMwxeQ/видео.html. That might give you your answer. However, I'm working on a template build video that will show you how to best set up VEP6 with DP and I will cover MIDI port and channel assignments in great detail.
About the tread count.. Thread almost means the same thing as CPU cores. If you have an 8-core Mac Pro, then you have 16 threads (8 physical cores, and 8 hyperthread cores). What CPU do you have in your Mac or PC? And in VEP's prefs under Multiprocessing, how many threads show up in the pull down menu? The tread count tells VEP6 how many CPU cores to multitask on. If you have an 8-core Xeon, and you are using four instances of VEP, set the thread count to 3 or 4. That means that those four instances each gets to use 3 or 4 of the cores, (3 x4 = 12 cores out of 16 total cores leaving a couple of cores for the OS and DAW). If you have an 8-core CPU and you use just one instance of VEP set the thread count to 12 or 13 (that leaves 3 or 4 cores for the OS and DAW). Maybe I'll go over that again in my next VEP video. Hope that helps for now.
Great video, thanks a lot!
I'm a Digital Performer and VEPRO addicted....
Can I have some information about the RAID storage and how it can be used for SAMPLES ?
Sure. First off, do you have a 2009-2012
MacPro? If so, tell me your CPU and RAM specs.
Hi Steve :-)).
I work with a Mac mini Server (Late 2012), 2,3 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3, DP9.1and Vepro 6.
Sometimes everything is on my Mac and sometimes (for big projects) I add a PC Intel Core i7 64GB RAM as slave via ethernet and Vepro6 installed there...
So here's the deal with the m.2 RAIDs for sample libraries. All samplers still use DFD (only some of the samples are loaded into RAM while the rest get streamed from the disk). In Kontakt you can actually turn this off but for some templates it's not advisable. What I did was buy a 16 lane PCIe card that holds four m.2 sticks. I bought four Samsung SM951s and striped them (RAID 0) so that I could let Konatkt use it as a buffer. I have my Kontakt preload buffer size set at 240Kbs (nobody does that). That's how fast this RAID is. 5700MB/s read speeds! Samples load so fast sometimes the load meter doesn't even show up. t never drop voices.
pt2 - If your PC has a 16 lane PCIe slot you could do the same. You've got the right amount of RAM, although depending on how many cores your i7 has, (you're not gonna like this), you should consider getting a Xeon based system. DP and VEP are MADE for multi threading and the more you have the better. I have two 12-core MPs, for a total of 24 cores (48 virtual cores). And I didn't spend as much as you'd think. Less than $3000 for each MP. If you want to know where to get the card just let me know. With Thunderbolt 2 on your Mini you could get an external PCIe box and RAID two SM951s and max out the TB bus. That would at least be something. 2000MB/s reads or so.
Thank you Steve, for your detailed reply, now I have something to think about.
you wrote "... I could let Kontakt use it as a buffer... "
I' totally new to Samsung SM951Samsung SM95 and I don't know how they works...
Are they working as RAM or are something like SSD ? If yes do you have libraries stored there ( "... I could let Kontakt use it as a buffer... " )?
Thank you for great patience
It's so dark looking compared to my DP5. Is there a way to change background colors for the sequencer? And is there still a button to open an individual track somewhere on the transport controls, or do you have to double click now?
And is there still shift-9 or shift-8 to open the quantizer to quantize highlighted stuff? I'm not a big fan of change, but my G4 is dying.
MOTU started adding skins in DP7. No offense but DP5 was the ugliest version they ever put out with the round buttons and all. 8 and 9 are really great looking. This theme is called Non More Black, which is true. It makes Logic X look light grey. They have plenty of themes so go download a copy and see if your machine cane at least do some work. Perhaps mastering. I've kept all my old versions going back to 1.7. Just missed 5 and some of 6 during a very long project.
+Andrew Feazelle Command-G is Quantize and Control-Command-I is one of my favorites, Input Quantize.
Thanks - yeah if they let you customize the look with different skins I might be more interested. Oh no - Command-G is quantize now? I'm so used to just highlighting stuff and using _one hand_ to open the quantizer.
Pt1 - My mistake. Jeez, what a messed up typo! Quantize is Command-0 (zero). Command-9 is transpose. Also, there is a Commands windows that is the best out there. Not only does it list all of the keystrokes in DP in a searchable, configureable and floating window. But you can change any and all of them, have Chunks saved to them and export them/import them at another studio. MOTU has added a lot of nice features with v7, v8 and v9. Theme's can be customized if you're willing to open the DP Package contents. I made a few with mine. ampguimods.net makes custom themes. And many you can make many changes yourself very easily (different text color, mixer fader changes).
There is an area beneath the control panel but above the tracks window called the Tracks Inspector, and that area is called the Tracks Inspector. You can select any track, any insert, send and I/O in this area and it's contextual. MOTU has put a the ability to have a Tracks Selector on either the left or right sidebar, and in each window it pertains too.
The Classic theme is still available. Look at my first "HOW TO DP and Vienna Ensemble Pro" video. You see the Classic theme there. Honestly Andrew, since Consolidated Windows, MOTU has been hard at work giving DP one of the best GUIs in the business. Now if they would do a massive overall of QuickScribe.
hi steve, i picked up vienna ensemble 6 while it was on sale. i used it for the first time today (monday). when i open my vep6 in 64bit so i can use sample tank 3 none of the sample loaded. everything in 32bit is working great. can you thin of anything to help me out? also did you do a video using vep6 with kontakt 5 routing?
I've heard some people having trouble loading VEP5 projects. I haven't run into that problem so I'm not sure what to tell you. So, none of Sample Tanks samples loaded or Sample Talk itself didn't load? Would it be a big pain to just reload the samples or do you not remember which samples, multis and fx were loaded in which channels? One guess.. Try opening your template in VEP5 (hopefully you saved a copy of VEP5 - or you can just re-download it from VSL), and save all of the SampleTank channels as "Save Channel Set". Then in VEP6 choose "Insert Channel Set". Let me know how that goes. I suppose you could load an instance and then choose "Merge Project..", then sort it out. That's not ideal I understand.
I did a video about Kontakt optimization here ruclips.net/video/4BJNRhZLZww/видео.html
but not about Kontakt routing. What did you want to know? I'll knock out a quick vid for you. What DAW are you using again?
digital performer 9 none better :-)
hi steve i've been with dp since performer and i remember and still have all my manuals. i was wondering did you upgrade to dp 9.1 i did had to go back to 9.02 the program would crash. also how do you like vienna ensemble pro 6 thinking about getting it while it's on sale.
Hi CV. I've had no problems with 9.1 although with the new engine there are some things MOTU is patching up. Before you download 9.1, rename your current DP app to DP 9.02 so 9.1 won't overwrite it. Try pulling the MOTU folder in the Preferences directory and let DP9.1 create a fresh prefs file. Make sure your MOTU Audio Drivers are updated. I know that's not much help but I haven't had any issues myself. Concerning VEP6, I'll have a VEP6 Top 10 New Features video up tomorrow. I think you'll see that I do like the update. It's worth the $85 upgrade price. Plus if you have any issues with it you can go back to VEP5 until an update comes out. That's my plan. I'm only having one issue with DP9.1/VEP6 but I need to talk to Paul at VSL about it before I say anything publicly. Bottom line, get VEP6 while it's on sale even if you're not ready to use it. The new features are nice and the optimized engine is a good thing (which should be in my video). The mixer section is much more functional.
This was interesting but way over my head. I haven't been able to get a basic, yet comprehensive description of just what VEP is, how it works and why I should get it. Maybe you could do a video on it. I use DP with a single Mac Pro, no slaves, real basic. However, I'm experiencing problems with DP 9.12 in conjunction with 5 instances of EW Play 5.0. I've been encouraged to get VEP as if it were a panacea. But I'm skeptical of adding another level of complexity to an already unstable system. Thanks!
Maybe that's a good idea for a video. If you don't mind my opinion, DP 9.1 and up placed great strain on everyone's system. I held out as long as I could but I went back to 9.02 and will stay there until MOTU fully optimizes DP's new engine. If your system worked fine with 9.02, go back to what you had. The thing about VEP is this. You'll know when you need it. For example DP can handle about 20-30GBs of memory usage before it hits the wall. VEP can go past 80GBs and beyond. When DP can no longer handle your template, you need VEP, even if it's on one machine.
If you want, send me some direct questions concerning your confusion about VEP and I'll answer them either in a video or in an email with some short video examples. VEP is actually very awesome and well built. Think about how many things a DAW has to do. Noting slows a DAW down to a crawl like VIs and sample libraries. VEP is essentially a VI and sample lib holder so your DAW is free to keep a low CPU and RAM footprint therefore keeping your DAW light and fast for everything else it has to do. It's like an external Vrack. That's it. I give it my highest recommendation. It's very easy to use and is massively stable (especially with DP). Try the demo. You'll need a Steinberg key though.
Why did MOTU release 9.12 as a maintenance release when it didn't address and fix the problems in 9.1? They see it as some sort of anomaly in my system (which is as basic as you can get) which they cannot reproduce? Really? All these technical rabbits are distracting me from getting my work done. So back to 9.02. I wish I had more detailed questions for you, but I'm kind of a slow learner with Vienna stuff. Like, is that virtual stage gui part of VEP? You have to start at the bottom with me. Thanks for your responses, Steve
I had a listen to your music. It's awesome. I don't think I've heard anything like it.
+Ken Nickels I've had a busy last couple of months so I can't answer the DP update issue. I'll check soon. DP already had the pre-gen feature available for plugins (in 9.02 or before you can turn it on or off in the prefs or in a plugin's mini menu), so I don't know what happened. I'll probably do a video about it soon though.
About VEP, the virtual stage is a separate app that VSL sells called MIR. It's basically a convolution reverb with a virtual stage integrated into VEP (sold separately). Ignore that part. Do you use the Vracks feature in DP? VEP is basically the same thing as Vracks but instead of being in DP, VEP is a separate app. So imagine if Vracks was a separate app that you could load all of your VIs into. The #1 thing that slows down a DAW is a bunch of VIs and plugins. So instead of bogging down DP, you let VEP take the VI load and let DP just deal with MIDI data and audio files. That way DP runs quick and lean.
Hi Steve,
First off, your videos are immensely helpful so thank you very much!
Second, I have a bit of an issue with latency from Ve Pro 5 to my DAW (DP8). I've tried everything and have googled and youtube'd a ton and can't seem to fix the issue.
Basically I have DP8 running on my main machine and Ve Pro 5 on my slave. Everything is setup the way it should be but for whatever reason the latency when i record a midi track onto my main machine is about a split second off. It's not that noticeable but when I'm playing to a click, it's VERY noticeable. Can you suggest something/help?
Phil White Have you tried adjusting the buffer setting on the VEP server interface (the VEP plugin interface)? You can choose different buffer settings (4, 3, 2, 1 or 0), that refer to sample return time listed also as milliseconds at the bottom right on the plugin. Look at 2:32 in this video right after the fast forward starts and the VEP plugin opens. You access the buffers for each instance at the bottom right of those. It will make your CPU run harder of course but if you're trying to play parts in via MIDI it's a trade off that you sometimes have to make.
After recording, raise the buffers back up for mixing so the CPU isn't taxed unnecessarily. Hope that helps.
I don't quite understand the part about the "minus-1" bar
Neal Cain I add the extra measure by choosing Add Measures.. in the Project menu, so at the beginning of the project I get a bit of a “lead off” that can contain KSs, CCs, etc..which resets the virtual instrument so it’s in its best state when asked to play. Helps with dropped voices, too.
Excellent, Steve.
Any way I could get the video at real time?!?!
You cover the whole process very nicely.
Getting ready to delve into setting up very similar setup to yours -
Mac pro
DP9
VEP
2x i7 - 6700K 2x 1tssd + 64GB ram
Best regards,
Steve Greene
Several people have asked for that. But It would be extremely long, and would take some editing (if I even kept the original screen capture). But one of my next videos will be how to build a "complete" DP/VEP template. I think it will be exactly what you want. In this video I built just enough of an orchestral template to sketch something. There won't be any composing in the new video so I'll be able to focus on getting in every detail of building a DP/VEP template including what I think is the best way DP should be configured, (I fine tuned that recently). Btw, nice setup you have. If you want to discuss anything in the meantime, let me know!
This is a great video, thanks for doing it! I'm a long time VEP user, but just switched to DP from Pro Tools and Logic. So far I love it. One question I have is about the CCs you set up in your negative bar. Did you do this to help reset expressions with the mod wheel? I noticed how badly Pro Tools always handled this. Second question, if that's the case, do you do that for each chunk you're using for your cues? And do you always setup a negative bar to start each chunk/sequence/etc??
Eric Rickey I set up a negative bar or bars for a couple of reasons, although it’s mainly an old workflow habit. One is to reset CCs like you said, but also to give DP and the CPU extra time to pre-render, to fill up the buffer, and so that DP and VE Pro don’t hit the first core of the CPU at almost the same exact time, (although DP has other ways of handling this - the Prime Milliseconds setting and some of the features in DP’s updated MAS engine for example). Also, if I need a pickup measure, and I know I’m going to export to Finale I like having it available without having to stop to create one. I have a keystroke that takes me to measure one (Cmnd T and 1 - you can do this several ways including using Metagrid which is awesome), and a keystroke that creates a selection from bar one, so the negative bars don’t get in the way when I don’t want them. You could also put a Marker at measure one and rewind to that if that’s your intention. Cmnd T + 1 is fast though. With today’s CPUs and flash drives it’s not as necessary to have negative measures, but old habits die hard. Because my main orchestral/film template has about 1000 tracks, even with today’s hardware I still try to do everything in advance to make sure I can lower latency when needed, to make sure I never get dropped voices or pops and cracks, etc. Most of my other sequences (Chunks) have a negative measures or measures. Oh, welcome to DP! You’re in a great community.
cool thanks for the reply, yeah I'm pumped, but I actually have a project starting soon, so I'm trying to fast-track my transition to DP so I can move as quickly as I normally would. Would you mind sharing any tips about the back-end DP settings you mentioned from this video? Like the Prime Milliseconds settings and the like? I'm trying to build some templates. I'm actually finding the "clippings" very useful.
Eric Rickey Clippings are essential. I’ve thought about making a “Best DP lesser known features” type of video or a Clippings video about how I use them, because you’re right, Clippings are very useful. MIDI Device Groups are another. I record a lot of doubled parts that way (Flutes/Violin 1, etc..). About helping you with DP Settings optimization tips, sure I don’t mind helping out at all, just keep in mind that DAW/VE Pro builds are part of my business. Also, what I’m using in this video might not be the most efficient for your setup. I’ve rebuilt my template, and spent months refining it, so it’s different now. That said, tell me your computer(s) specs, your main sample libraries for your orchestra (you’re doing orchestral, right?), and tell me what you’re using for a controller.
On that note, in the next few months, I’ll have a complete DP/VE Pro/Controller templates bundle for sale on my website and the price will be VERY low. I’ve spent a year perfecting what I think will be the most modern and powerful bundle of templates publicly available, and for a ridiculously low price everyone will have instant access to the same templates (or better), that the a-list composers have. The first one will make the Finale-Digital Performer-VE Pro crowd happy but I intend to build near-clone templates for Cubase and Logic users, as well as Sibelius and Notion users.
Steve - how are you dealing with keeping VEPro running in real time and not pregen? Considering you're running DP9.1x you've lost the ability to globally turn off pregen. It's why I've stayed on 9.02
musicman8942 Are you referring to the 9.1 new engine issue? It’s fine now (9.5). VEP has to run in Real-time. That’s how you can put it in a Vrack and let DP sequences share VEP instances (it had to keep running- but that was a long time ago)..I skipped 9.1, (or went back to 9.0.1 then jumped to 9.2 I think). When MOTU first rebuilt the MAS pregen/real-time engine, VIs that had to stay in real-time had some performance issues as you know. However, IMO, it’s now working fine. I’m using the latest version of DP, (9.5.1 I think), and am having no problems with huge templates. The new Effects Monitor is great too. Lowering the CPU buffer size is better now too. The audio buffer feels different but everything is working fine. Maybe try 9.5.1 on a different boot volume if you can and see what you think. I hope that answered your question.
I've tried DP9.5 and I have to either keep the gui open or have a MIDI track routed to VEPro 6 record enabled to keep VEPro 6 from going into pregen mode. I don't use V-Racks; I only run one sequence at a time. Maybe 9.51r2 is the fix? Also what OSX version are you running? OSX 10.10.5 here.
musicman8942 Really? I’ll investigate later this evening and get back with you.
musicman8942 Well I tried every permutation of every combination of VEP with MIDI tracks pointing to and not pointing to, record enabled and not record enabled, plugin floating, plugin open, plugin closed, VE Pro loaded with instrument, not loaded with instrument, coupled and decoupled, and anything else I could think of and with the Effect Performance window open the entire time I could not make VEP go into pregen mode. It stayed in RT mode, said it could only be RT, and the RT check mark was greyed out. I even made a video of it if you need to see it.
All software most recent I believe:
DP v9.51 74138
VEP 6.0.16502
macOS 10.12.6 (got brave)
Mac Pro 4,1/5,1
Thanks for trying. It may be a combo of OSX 10.10.5 and DP9.50 and VEPro (latest version). I raised a Techlink with MOTU and will see what happens. I'll have to see if DP9.51r2 works.
Hi Steve, amazing video! I’m a pretty new worker with large orchestral templates (Logic user here) and I’ve got two basic questions for you:
1. Is a master/slave - VEP setup convenient to handle a 100+ tracks orchestral project with no cpu/ram issues? Or would it be better to have all the stuff in a single powerful computer?
2. the gigabit Ethernet connection is stable enough to have a good performance with no drops/spikes?
* I’m working with my poor 16bg ram 2013 MBP and I’m trying to adopt the best solution to manage large orchestral scores, between
A. Just installing VEP on it
B. Go for a master/slave setup (with a 64gb ram pc)
Which do you think would be the best?
Thx a lot, any suggestion much appreciated!
giulio pirondini Hi Giulio. The short answers are yes, yes and B, get a VE Pro slave. IMO, VE Pro and a host/slave are necessary. VE Pro will help out Logic a lot by lifting the burden of hosting all of those sample libraries. At some point DAWs start to struggle when their memory footprint gets bloated. VE Pro doesn’t have this problem because it was built to do this. When my full template is enabled it’s footprint is +120GBs.
Long answer: I’m using two 12-core Mac Pros for my host/slave setup. It’s very stable. Ethernet has plenty of bandwidth for moving many channels of stereo audio, no problem. I had that question too at first. It works perfectly though. It’s very easy to manage, you just need to make the whole start up and shut down sequence part of your routine, which is easy. Yes, with a 16GB MacBook, you’ll definitely need a slave. I highly recommend a Xeon-based 12-core (or more), Mac or PC, with at least 64GBs of RAM and several SSDs. Try to balance out your sample libraries across several SSDs based on size, load time and general CPU % usage.
Regarding your first question, if you had a current Mac Pro or PC with a 12 or more core Xeon, 128GBs of RAM, and multiple m.2 SSDs then you could get by with one machine. Some people will tell you they get by on a single machine just fine, and maybe they do but I haven’t been able to with a 12-core, 64GB, multi SSD machine. Even though I’ve got everything optimized to the max, I make a lot of use of the multiple mic position libraries by Orchestral Tools, Spitfire and VSL, and when you have all of those loaded up and are trying to play them back, you need a lot of RAM and CPU horsepower. I don’t use the multiple mic positions until I mix down (I use the mix or tree mic when composing), and I might be more of an extreme user than some other composers, but still, a serious orchestral template that uses the latest OT, SF and VSL libs will need one or two computers to work. We’re getting really close to a point where one computer will be able to handle it all, but the sample library developers keep adding mic positions, legato samples, release samples, and growing the overall size of their libraries. I think OT’s Berlin Brass takes up about 90 or 100GBs on my SSD.
If you’re a hardcore Mac user and for whatever reasons don’t want to buy a PC, you can do what many of us have done, and that’s to buy a used 2009 Mac Pro, then upgrade the firmware, the CPUs, the RAM, and the drives. These upgraded Mac Pros run extremely (and surprisingly) fast. I bought and upgraded mine for about $2,500. They hold up to 128GBs of RAM (macsales.com sells this RAM). I’ve got m.2 SSDs in the PCIe slots and they’re fast. You can also buy a USB-C PCIe card for $99 from Sonnet. A PC slave is fine, but I thought I’d tell you about the cheap Mac option. I, and many others, have videos about the upgrade. Just search “4,1 to 5,1 Mac Pro upgrade” or “2009 Mac Pro 12-core Westmere upgrade”. If you find the video on my channel (not my best video), it will lead to more detailed videos.
Hope that helped.
Steve Steele thank you so much for your time to write this extensive answer! I’ll take care of your suggestions!
Everything moves in a high speed way and I could understand NOTHING!
midiland It was meant to be an overview video. Use the Speed feature in RUclips to slow the video down as much as you need. Or download the video, strip the audio, slow down the video and listen to the voiceover where needed.
There's no doubt you know your stuff with using DP but I really didn't like the FF approach as it should go without saying that especially with new users of DP this style of presentation doesn't help the viewer. 90% of what was demonstrated would be missed completely by a newbie. I appreciate it takes time to put together tutorials but there's no point if in rushing it as that on it's own will defeat the purpose of the video. There are not enough online resources for DP users and Motu need to take a much more positive approach to this if they'd like to grow their share of the DAW market.
So in a nutshell well done for doing this video but I thought your delivery was good but needs more detail and please slow it down.
Rick Brown Then I hope you’ll be glad to know then that I have an exhaustive series on Digital Performer planed for spring or early summer of this year (2019) that’s going to take the user from the very beginning of DP, to the most complex orchestra/film score workflow, and separately, I’m going to cover an audio tracking/mixing/mastering session. Probably about 50 videos total or more. Stay tuned. If you have any suggestions for areas of DP that you’d like to see in particular, let me know. But I plan on covering everything. An online manual if you will.
Thanks a lot for nothing... you went so fast and skipped 90% of the details.....
This is a very old video. If I wouldn’t have sped it up it would have been too long for the time limit I used to have on my channel. You can slow down the video in your browser during sections you really need to see.