So what do you all think? Personally, it's hard for me to conclude Vanitas' name translation as merely coincidence, especially when you consider how direct the translations are for the rest of The Foretellers. If The Masters name is supposed to be a mystery, wouldnt naming him after the sin of Pride be too simple and easy to figure out? At the end of the day, I'm not sure this theory is true but if The Master of Masters name ISNT Pride, then it leaves a wide vacancy among the Foretellers naming scheme, and perhaps that slot has already been filled
You know, Vainglory and Pride used to be separate when all the sins had been called the Eight Evil Thoughts. could be interesting if that was used in the story some how! especially sense Vanitus was split off from Ventus.
I think I just connected the dots, xehanort named vanitas after previously talking to the master. The masters name is probably vanitas, and he probably named him that because he’s the masters reserved darkness!
I personally don't agree with the idea that Vanitas is one of the Thirteen Darknesses. I think he's a being derived from one of them influencing the natural Darkness in Ventus' heart, giving it sentience. But either way, he's definitely not off the board yet. I'd personally like to see him standing with the Guardians, not as a member, but more of an ally. If nothing else, just to see his brothers again. Besides, the tragic elements of his character alone make him very entertaining, especially after one's read his KH3 Character File, in which he pretty much admits to himself that his hatred of Ven & Co. is just psychological projection. At the end of the day, he *has* decided what he is, but is it really a choice when you've only ever been given one option?
@@yehiahuzayyin7972 That’s silly when they might as well just make him ventus’s darkness. I don’t understand why people come up with completely random complicated theories, I mean at least try to come up with something insightful that makes sense lol.
@@wonderingobserver2231 Well, you don't have to be so rude about it. Besides, that's the fun part of it. And let's be honest, nobody expected KH to be this big when they got into it. And Re:Mind raised as many questions as it answered, anyway. And in Vanitas' final scene, it's shown that he still identifies as a piece of Ventus.
I think the seven deadly willful darknesses will be named after the seven deadly sins. And pride is one of them. However. I don't think that the foretellers have those names because they are their own names. I think the master gave them those names to know which deadly darkness that they had in them. Vanitas (pride) went inside ventus because he was gonna be forced into the master and the master would have killed him. That's my opinion. That is why the masters eye is on his keyblade. Because the master is watching for the willfull darkness that escaped. Just a theory!!! Lol
I 100% agree with the notion that the Foretellers names were given to them by the Master, i did a video on it back in the day and cant help but feel like it will have major implications for the future
Regarding Vanitas escaping the MoM, I wonder if when he cryptically says he might disappear one day in Back Cover, he was referring to his death. Since him dying would defeat that darkness.
I really like this idea. Having a Nickname that is connected to the deadly sins is a rather strong connection. As the names of the foretellers are also not their real names. And Vanitas isn't really his real name either as it was given to him by Xehanort. And who knows how much Xehanort actually knows. I always get the feeling that he thinks he knows more then he actually does, or is misunderstanding most of what he knows, or is willfully ignoring things that don't fit into his "plans". Anyway Vanitas. Do you think he is ever going to change his name, or rather say his old name, the name he went by before he casted out his form and become a Darkness? Or do you think he might have forgotten it? Anyway where do I think he is going in the future. Well it is kind of hard to guess without knowing how many Darknesses there are and where they are. And how often have we seen them. I am kind of expecting DR to give us a lot of hints as to how the Darknesses work. So I am likely going to change some of my thoughts when we get the rest of DR. One who spent some time being Vanitas is still within Ventus. It might not still take the form or look of Vanitas as when it talked in Remind it was voiceless. Though I am pretty sure that it will be able to take the from of Vanitas any time it wants. It is clear if Ventus trapped this Darkness within him at the end of UX but unclear if that Darkness is still trapped. Or if going to the Realm of Darkness is going to do something to both Ventus and Vanitas. Either way I do think that no matter what this Darkness is going to have something big to do with the Wayfinder's next story.
I hope so Vanitas is actually my most favorite character in the entire kingdom hearts series if he turns out to play a more important role that would blow the community out of this nation!
I really love the theory! It would be interesting to see what Vanitas' role will be in the future, and how it connects to the MoM and the 13 Darknesses. I believe that in some iterations of the seven deadly sins of man, vanity has been seen as an eighth additional sin which is separate from pride. So, perhaps that could be a clue that Vanitas is connected to the eighth of the 13 Darknesses, rather than the Darkness of Pride which we assume is reserved for the master. If that's true, and Vanitas is only connected to one of the lesser six of the 13 Darknesses, then who knows how powerful the main seven will be!
So you're saying is Master of Masters gave multiple eyes? So what about Riku? Riku had a gazing eye on his keyblade and he manifested that keyblade on his own.
I like the idea of Vanitas being part of the Foretellers in some way but I do remember Xehanort gave him his name, so i think it's more odd Xehanort did that. Also the eye thing I've always seen as being because of them being derivatives of no name cos even Sora had a keyblade with an eye on it (End of Pain in DDD), and he's not darkness, but funnily enough he almost became a vessel in that game hmm.. Good points overall anyway man, I certainly don't think Vanitas is out just yet 💯
Names being connected to sins is definitely something I did when I was younger. When I made my CaC for any video game I'd always have the name Vice as it relates to the vices and sins of man. Naming my character Vice Master of Sin as the official title if I ever got to make that my characters title.
When sora dives into Ven’s heart, the darkness says something about pure hearts being reckless. Darkness abused the pure light of ven which came out in the form of vanity
Vanitas is a piece of Darkness. Darkness is One of Thirteen. We don't know the name of the True Version of this One Whole. If the True Version of Darkness is like what The Master True form is in our original theory, then Vanitas is the Pride of a Fallen Angel. The "Archangel" of Kingdom Hearts, "playing a Game". Also. Vanitas has the X in his Belts. The X created/discovered by the Master, and he directly or indirectly puts them on his proxy Traitors. Perhaps the One Darkness (the Original) betrayed the Master, literally or Metaphorically stabbing his "best friend" in the back? I am getting Eraqus/Xehanort parallels here... They " play the chess game " in KH3. The Game we see occur is metaphorically literally the cycle of Battles between Light (capital L) and Darkness (capital D).
So something I realized while rewatching the Nightmare Chirithy and Ventus darkness scenes from KHux... We likely miscounted lesser/greater darknesses. Ventus's Darkness was likely Ava's Greed-Darkness not one of the six lesser Darknesses. Nightmare Chirithy mentioned that he was a Darkness and was borne of Player. But... with KH3 and Remind for context, that likely means that Nightmare Chirithy took on that form for bonding with Player, rather than beginning its whole existence with Player. Whether Nightmare Chirithy and Vanitus are literally one of the 13 Darknesses, or just an "expansion" of them it doesn't really matter. What matters is that when Player severed Nightmare Chirithy from himself, he still had Darkling hosts he commanded past his defeat/disappearance. So... we do not know if MoM's plan was able to trap Nightmare Chirithy alongside the other Darknesses, but it did trap a greater darkness in Ventus.
Awesome video as always Landi! Do you think the darkness we saw in Union Cross (that interacted with Ava) is the one that went into Ventus? I don’t remember that story verbatim but recall the darkness having a plan and forming an alliance with Ava, though I forgot exactly why.
I love it😜 for all we know we could get know we could get news at the anniversary celebration regarding Dark road 😅 we know episode 4 will be LONG 1.4.22
I think I just connected the dots, xehanort named vanitas after previously talking to the master. The masters name is probably vanitas, and he probably named him that because he’s the masters reserved darkness!
Thinking on it, doesn't the gazing eye show up in more keyblade beyond no name and venitas's? The 5 foretellers and i thought one of rikus blades had a gazing eye as well. How many eyes does this dude have anyways? Is he a friggen spider or something? Lol.
@@TheLandiLodge interesting... that seems to fit, we already know he planed to use the fortellers to be the vessels for 6 of the 7 prime darknesses. Vanitas would be another good cantidate, consider he already calls him a being of darkness. That fits for everyone except maybe Riku, then again, I'm not 100% sure if one of Rikus keyblades had the eye or not, and even if it did it might have been a non canonical keyblade, similar to how sora has like 30 different keyblades now, but i beleive the kingdom key is his only canonical keyblade, that and maybe the x blade after KH3. I could be wrong, but thats my understanding anyways. Either way, cool idea. I can't wait till all these questions are answered and theories are prove right, wrong, or partially right. We've been waiting so long for some of these answers.
Erm? When talking to Darkness the MoM stated that he could only "the from the gazing eye on Luxu's keyblade and even then only the important parts". So I don't think he can see from EVERY gazing eye blade right??
There’s something that struck me as odd. The Master heavily implied he would be using a medium and a waypoint which means he would use a pod of the time machine. Unless he was somehow the True Dandelion, he either must be or reside in Ventus, or he means to use Radiant Garden’s time machine. If he *is* Vanitas it has a lot of merit. Brain even questions if that particular Darkness acts out of fear or pride. Well, Ventus’s Darkness should theoretically represent fear- but which is it? I had last week come to the conclusion that he is a grown-up Ventus. The boy who never grew up finally does grow up. After all, including Peter Pan there are 7 lost boys (lost masters), and the 2 used in BBS wore the animal clothes of respective foretellers. After watching Chip and Dale and seeing the villain in that movie it kinda clicked. I do think that the Master of Masters represents the Jack of Hearts, but the picture is surely broader than that. There would be one more thing to consider though- if it is the case that Ventus somehow is the Master. There would be one less Darkness then accounted for per involved character- so, that would mean at least 1 Darkness belongs to Player or Strelitzia.
Hes the only mainline character that I feel we haven't seen the full story of yet. I never bought the idea that by Sora merging with Ventus, Vanitas took on the form of an *adult* sora, none of that made sense to me without exposition. And this is coming from the story that made an entire game just to explain why mickey has an inverted kingdom key. And after seeing the events of the mobile game it appears Vanitas was never a product of Ventus at all but more like a possession that inhabited Ventus. It wouldn't surprise me of Vanitas is much more important to the story than we all thought, or even a time traveler at that.
"I keep forgetting-don't mess with Keyblade wielders. But you know what? That just means I made the right choice! Well... he wanted me to buy time, and I'd say he got it." What if the "he" Luxu refers to wasn't Xehanort, but actually Vanitas? 👀
I think he is talking about Master of Masters. Luxu became a Keyblade wielder because Mom gave him one. He is buying time for Xehanort because Mom wished it. Destiny, Fate and all that.
Vanitas is a litteral Darkness Ven sealed away within himself, which was later torn out by Xehanort and dubbed Vanitas. Of course the darkness is gonna have the name of a sin. The real question is how much of the book of prophecies does Vanitas know? Since the Darkness might be similar to a hive mind, and we can't tell the litteral darknesses appart from each other. Who was the darkness that brought Malificent back to her time or the one that chatted with the Master of Masters and looked over the book of prophecies? Maybe it was Vanitas doing all of them, or maybe he knew Ven's role as his vessel from that hive mind and different darknesses were at work. Since like 4 others certainly appeared in the UX finale and then there was the one speaking with luxu and its hard to tell if that is Luxu's own darkness, or the MOM's, or maybe even the darkness meant for Strelitzia but Strelitzia died so... do we even know what happened to the darkness meant to go to her?
Vanitas is from ven's heart made by his darkness way after cross and has a concretion to both ven and sora since he has sora's appearance when ven shared a piece from sora's heart
The form he takes - as we know and see him, appears to be based on these events and conditions you describe; but Vanitas doesn't seem to believe this in KH3 and claims that he had been hidden there for much longer or something to that effect.
Perhaps I'm too late and this comment won't be noticed, and I have posted a similar one on another video, but I've had a very strong urge to type this out... With my recent KH kick I've been watching all kinds of gameplay, analysis and theory videos regarding the games; but recently I realized something - something that may be the biggest indicator of Vanitas' high potential to make a reappearance in future games! In KH3, after Ventus & Sora defeat Vanitas in the labyrinth, the Sora questioned why Vanitas won't stand with them despite calling them both his brothers. In his response, Vanitas literally tells them "... I do stand by your side. I'm the shadow that you cast. How much closer could I be?" all the while, smirking/smiling at them. I think a lot of us dismissed this as him being philosophical/metaphorical about justifying his nature/choice to fight against them, but what if he was actually more literal than we all thought? I mean - think about it: at the conclusion of their conversation, Vanitas seemed almost content with how things were ending...Doesn't that seem a little odd? With what we've seen in BBS, you'd think he'd be upset or outraged to have lost against them, knowing he was about to return to the past where he would eventually fall in his clash against Ventus in BBS. So what if the reason he was fine with this conclusion was due to knowing that he'll still be around? That his future-self is still alive and lingering around or within Ventus or Sora?
Great theory, My only problem is that the MOM said he does not like the Darkness so why would he want one to work for him. Having said that, That is what MOM said but considering we don't 100% know what that man is thinking he could be lying when he said that. Having said that overall besides that I love this idea and would want Vanitas to come back in some shape or form for one reason only.....I want to see a fight between him and ROXAS DAMN IT!
Here's the thing, Vanitas hasn't expressed any awareness of who The Master is, it doesn't have to be that The Master has Vanitas working for him, its more that The Master is using him without him knowing. However, as you stated - we don't know if we can trust The Master at his word yet. Dude, a Vanitas v. Roxas fight would be incredible, sign me up
@@TheLandiLodge Right the more I think about the way you said it in this video it did sound like you were saying that The Master was more like using Vanitas. My bad LOL.
It make me wonder if there is going to one last Foreteller or someone associated with the former/historical sin, Melancholy. Due to Ava absence no doubt subject X could take up the name that translate to Melancholy in latin.
I hope Vanitas gets a real body. In my story, he acquires a replica and comes back through Sora’s negativity (cuz Vanitas’s heart being linked to Ven is in SORA as in present day Vanitas)🙂 And in said story I have The master indirectly mention Vanitas🤣
@@yehiahuzayyin7972 ok so um I need to point out I wrote this in 2019 before they announced KH4 but the story where Vanitas is brought back is called Kingdom hearts 4- The lost Masters saga. It’s on Archive of our own But thanks for being interested 😊
I’ve always kept this question in my head of who the hell vanitas is because he’s very different from your normal nobody because Roxas ain’t summoning anything like he does and when he was inside ventus spoil alert btw he kill somebody so what’s really going on with him
I think when vanitus he went back to sora not ven. I think he is filling the hole ven left when he returned. Its now vanitus's turn to be thier for sora.
1. When I saw the title, I thought "WTF where does this idea come from?", however as you started to explain your understanding of "Vanitas" it clicked. I understand, but you're kinda wrong. You focus too hard on the english words, which are absolutely irrelevant here. Nomura definitely had the original meaning in mind, especially considering he isn't really well versed in english. But let me explain what I mean by "the original meaning". Yes, "vanity" (the english word) means something like "unjustified pride" since the 14th century. The latin word "vanitas" however was originally and should still be translated as "voidness". "Gloria" means "unjustified pride" or "boasting", however the english term "glory" nowadays is used more in a positive sense, which makes it something like "deserved pride" or just "pride" (but the latter is rather wrong, as glory is gained/achieved, while pride is an inner state, but that's just the english language and doesn't really matter for the context) A lot of translations and different uses in the english language turned it into what it is nowadays, you can't just take the word it derived from and think it means the same. And then there is a specific type of paintings called "Vanitas", which literally cemented the original meaning into our history. "Voidness", "futility", "pointlessness","meaningless", etc. These paintings follow the theme of "memento mori", meaning the 'certainty of death'. 2. And your video-title is absolute clickbait. You don't adress anything that would make him a "secret foreteller", just a proxy of for MoMs plans. And that also based on a...rather weird assumption. "Noname" has MoMs eye in it, the "Gazing Eye", which was also the name Master Xehanort gave it, as it originally had "No Name". There are multiple Keyblades with such an eye. "Void Gear" (Vanitas' Keyblade) "Soul Eater" (Rikus first Keyblade) "Way to the Dawn" (Rikus second Keyblade, or rather the second form of "Soul Eater") and "Chaos Ripper" (one of the Keyblades Terra can use in BbS) While yes, all these eyes probably belong to someone or something, it would be rather odd if MoM was the one that created all of them, considering that....well....a human has 2 eyes.... Yepp. 3. I agree, that Vanitas is definitely on MoMs watchlist, but for reasons that have already been strongly hinted at (and partly explained even). Vanitas IS Darkness! Darkness is the enemy of MoM and every being of light (as explained in the last few chapters of Union X), that one is for sure (weither MoM is good or evil doesn't matter. These 2 factions are opposing each other!) Darkness, or rather "The 13 Darknesses" is a hivemind of 13 similar beings, one of which bond to Ventus early on. MoM created his plan, so that these Darknesses cannot comprehend how MoM wants to reach his goals (destroying Darkness that is). That's also why the Book of Prophecies was so vague. The "Traitor" mentioned in it as example. There was no 1 single traitor, but multiple instances of treachery. Ava, Ventus, Luxu, the Player, etc. 4. Then there was the interview with Nomura in 2010 in which he talked about Birth by Sleep. [ www.khinsider.com/news/Full-Nomura-Interview-20-KH-Mysteries-Solved-1366 ] -- How did you think of Vanitas' name? Nomura: I wanted to give him a name that meant "empty", and so I looked for something that would be appropriate. When I was searching I found a word that meant "emptiness" in Latin, "Vanitas". It looked a lot like Ventus' name, and in Japanese it has the kanji for "sora" in it, so I thought it was perfect. Of course in Vanitas' case it doesn't mean "sora [sky]" but "kara [empty]" [These two words are written with the same kanji, but are said differently and have different meanings.] 5. Last but not least, in-universe it was Master Xehanort who gave the Darkness that was extracted from Ventus the name "Vanitas". Tl;dr: The english words have a different meaning that the latin words they originated from. There is only one 'Gazing Eye' belonging to MoM and it's on the "Noname". MoM and Darkness are opposed to each other. Nomura already explained the meaning of the word Vanitas as "emptiness" and it's connection to Sora in the japanese language. And the Darkness called Vanitas got it's name thanks to Master Xehanort.
So what do you all think? Personally, it's hard for me to conclude Vanitas' name translation as merely coincidence, especially when you consider how direct the translations are for the rest of The Foretellers. If The Masters name is supposed to be a mystery, wouldnt naming him after the sin of Pride be too simple and easy to figure out?
At the end of the day, I'm not sure this theory is true but if The Master of Masters name ISNT Pride, then it leaves a wide vacancy among the Foretellers naming scheme, and perhaps that slot has already been filled
You know, Vainglory and Pride used to be separate when all the sins had been called the Eight Evil Thoughts. could be interesting if that was used in the story some how! especially sense Vanitus was split off from Ventus.
I think I just connected the dots, xehanort named vanitas after previously talking to the master. The masters name is probably vanitas, and he probably named him that because he’s the masters reserved darkness!
I personally don't agree with the idea that Vanitas is one of the Thirteen Darknesses. I think he's a being derived from one of them influencing the natural Darkness in Ventus' heart, giving it sentience. But either way, he's definitely not off the board yet. I'd personally like to see him standing with the Guardians, not as a member, but more of an ally. If nothing else, just to see his brothers again. Besides, the tragic elements of his character alone make him very entertaining, especially after one's read his KH3 Character File, in which he pretty much admits to himself that his hatred of Ven & Co. is just psychological projection. At the end of the day, he *has* decided what he is, but is it really a choice when you've only ever been given one option?
@@yehiahuzayyin7972 That’s silly when they might as well just make him ventus’s darkness. I don’t understand why people come up with completely random complicated theories, I mean at least try to come up with something insightful that makes sense lol.
@@wonderingobserver2231 Well, you don't have to be so rude about it. Besides, that's the fun part of it. And let's be honest, nobody expected KH to be this big when they got into it. And Re:Mind raised as many questions as it answered, anyway. And in Vanitas' final scene, it's shown that he still identifies as a piece of Ventus.
Vanitus definitely isn't done in this series. A famous man once told me "what's yours is mine!"
Vanitas carries BBS for me and Monster Inc. is by far my favorite world just because of him. 10/10 character, would love to see more
I think the seven deadly willful darknesses will be named after the seven deadly sins. And pride is one of them. However. I don't think that the foretellers have those names because they are their own names. I think the master gave them those names to know which deadly darkness that they had in them. Vanitas (pride) went inside ventus because he was gonna be forced into the master and the master would have killed him. That's my opinion. That is why the masters eye is on his keyblade. Because the master is watching for the willfull darkness that escaped. Just a theory!!! Lol
I 100% agree with the notion that the Foretellers names were given to them by the Master, i did a video on it back in the day and cant help but feel like it will have major implications for the future
Regarding Vanitas escaping the MoM, I wonder if when he cryptically says he might disappear one day in Back Cover, he was referring to his death. Since him dying would defeat that darkness.
What if ventus is the master in a time loop? They said he’s pure light in ux, and the master was hinted to be light in remind.
I really like this idea.
Having a Nickname that is connected to the deadly sins is a rather strong connection. As the names of the foretellers are also not their real names. And Vanitas isn't really his real name either as it was given to him by Xehanort. And who knows how much Xehanort actually knows. I always get the feeling that he thinks he knows more then he actually does, or is misunderstanding most of what he knows, or is willfully ignoring things that don't fit into his "plans".
Anyway Vanitas. Do you think he is ever going to change his name, or rather say his old name, the name he went by before he casted out his form and become a Darkness? Or do you think he might have forgotten it?
Anyway where do I think he is going in the future. Well it is kind of hard to guess without knowing how many Darknesses there are and where they are. And how often have we seen them. I am kind of expecting DR to give us a lot of hints as to how the Darknesses work. So I am likely going to change some of my thoughts when we get the rest of DR.
One who spent some time being Vanitas is still within Ventus. It might not still take the form or look of Vanitas as when it talked in Remind it was voiceless. Though I am pretty sure that it will be able to take the from of Vanitas any time it wants. It is clear if Ventus trapped this Darkness within him at the end of UX but unclear if that Darkness is still trapped. Or if going to the Realm of Darkness is going to do something to both Ventus and Vanitas. Either way I do think that no matter what this Darkness is going to have something big to do with the Wayfinder's next story.
I hope so Vanitas is actually my most favorite character in the entire kingdom hearts series if he turns out to play a more important role that would blow the community out of this nation!
Dang, this would explain the gazing eye on Vanitas’ keyblade 🤯
I really love the theory! It would be interesting to see what Vanitas' role will be in the future, and how it connects to the MoM and the 13 Darknesses.
I believe that in some iterations of the seven deadly sins of man, vanity has been seen as an eighth additional sin which is separate from pride. So, perhaps that could be a clue that Vanitas is connected to the eighth of the 13 Darknesses, rather than the Darkness of Pride which we assume is reserved for the master. If that's true, and Vanitas is only connected to one of the lesser six of the 13 Darknesses, then who knows how powerful the main seven will be!
I wonder if the gears in his keyblade are a reference to the gears in the clock tower.
YOOOOOOOOO, thats a great observation!
So you're saying is Master of Masters gave multiple eyes?
So what about Riku? Riku had a gazing eye on his keyblade and he manifested that keyblade on his own.
I like the idea of Vanitas being part of the Foretellers in some way but I do remember Xehanort gave him his name, so i think it's more odd Xehanort did that. Also the eye thing I've always seen as being because of them being derivatives of no name cos even Sora had a keyblade with an eye on it (End of Pain in DDD), and he's not darkness, but funnily enough he almost became a vessel in that game hmm.. Good points overall anyway man, I certainly don't think Vanitas is out just yet 💯
What if he named vanitas after the master because vanitas is his reserved darkness?
Names being connected to sins is definitely something I did when I was younger. When I made my CaC for any video game I'd always have the name Vice as it relates to the vices and sins of man. Naming my character Vice Master of Sin as the official title if I ever got to make that my characters title.
For some reason I feel like the MOM’s real name may be associated with “Balance”
I could dig it
When sora dives into Ven’s heart, the darkness says something about pure hearts being reckless. Darkness abused the pure light of ven which came out in the form of vanity
Vanitas is a piece of Darkness. Darkness is One of Thirteen. We don't know the name of the True Version of this One Whole. If the True Version of Darkness is like what The Master True form is in our original theory, then Vanitas is the Pride of a Fallen Angel. The "Archangel" of Kingdom Hearts, "playing a Game".
Also. Vanitas has the X in his Belts. The X created/discovered by the Master, and he directly or indirectly puts them on his proxy Traitors. Perhaps the One Darkness (the Original) betrayed the Master, literally or Metaphorically stabbing his "best friend" in the back?
I am getting Eraqus/Xehanort parallels here... They " play the chess game " in KH3. The Game we see occur is metaphorically literally the cycle of Battles between Light (capital L) and Darkness (capital D).
So something I realized while rewatching the Nightmare Chirithy and Ventus darkness scenes from KHux... We likely miscounted lesser/greater darknesses. Ventus's Darkness was likely Ava's Greed-Darkness not one of the six lesser Darknesses. Nightmare Chirithy mentioned that he was a Darkness and was borne of Player. But... with KH3 and Remind for context, that likely means that Nightmare Chirithy took on that form for bonding with Player, rather than beginning its whole existence with Player. Whether Nightmare Chirithy and Vanitus are literally one of the 13 Darknesses, or just an "expansion" of them it doesn't really matter. What matters is that when Player severed Nightmare Chirithy from himself, he still had Darkling hosts he commanded past his defeat/disappearance. So... we do not know if MoM's plan was able to trap Nightmare Chirithy alongside the other Darknesses, but it did trap a greater darkness in Ventus.
Awesome video as always Landi! Do you think the darkness we saw in Union Cross (that interacted with Ava) is the one that went into Ventus?
I don’t remember that story verbatim but recall the darkness having a plan and forming an alliance with Ava, though I forgot exactly why.
Darkness didn't interact with Ava. Darkness shapeshifted into a fake Ava to give Ventus plausible deniability .
I love it😜 for all we know we could get know we could get news at the anniversary celebration regarding Dark road 😅 we know episode 4 will be LONG
1.4.22
I think I just connected the dots, xehanort named vanitas after previously talking to the master. The masters name is probably vanitas, and he probably named him that because he’s the masters reserved darkness!
I think we'll either get Dark Road released or announced on the anniversary event.
Thinking on it, doesn't the gazing eye show up in more keyblade beyond no name and venitas's? The 5 foretellers and i thought one of rikus blades had a gazing eye as well. How many eyes does this dude have anyways? Is he a friggen spider or something? Lol.
I'm starting to think everyone who had a Gazing Eye in their Keyblade has been marked by The Master as a potential vessel
@@TheLandiLodge interesting... that seems to fit, we already know he planed to use the fortellers to be the vessels for 6 of the 7 prime darknesses. Vanitas would be another good cantidate, consider he already calls him a being of darkness. That fits for everyone except maybe Riku, then again, I'm not 100% sure if one of Rikus keyblades had the eye or not, and even if it did it might have been a non canonical keyblade, similar to how sora has like 30 different keyblades now, but i beleive the kingdom key is his only canonical keyblade, that and maybe the x blade after KH3. I could be wrong, but thats my understanding anyways.
Either way, cool idea. I can't wait till all these questions are answered and theories are prove right, wrong, or partially right. We've been waiting so long for some of these answers.
@@TheLandiLodge I think the Eyes are the true version the Master of Masters eyes. Like Archangels that look Eldritch he may have hundreds.
It would be a well played twist if true.
Erm? When talking to Darkness the MoM stated that he could only "the from the gazing eye on Luxu's keyblade and even then only the important parts". So I don't think he can see from EVERY gazing eye blade right??
There’s something that struck me as odd. The Master heavily implied he would be using a medium and a waypoint which means he would use a pod of the time machine. Unless he was somehow the True Dandelion, he either must be or reside in Ventus, or he means to use Radiant Garden’s time machine. If he *is* Vanitas it has a lot of merit. Brain even questions if that particular Darkness acts out of fear or pride. Well, Ventus’s Darkness should theoretically represent fear- but which is it? I had last week come to the conclusion that he is a grown-up Ventus. The boy who never grew up finally does grow up. After all, including Peter Pan there are 7 lost boys (lost masters), and the 2 used in BBS wore the animal clothes of respective foretellers. After watching Chip and Dale and seeing the villain in that movie it kinda clicked. I do think that the Master of Masters represents the Jack of Hearts, but the picture is surely broader than that. There would be one more thing to consider though- if it is the case that Ventus somehow is the Master. There would be one less Darkness then accounted for per involved character- so, that would mean at least 1 Darkness belongs to Player or Strelitzia.
Hes the only mainline character that I feel we haven't seen the full story of yet. I never bought the idea that by Sora merging with Ventus, Vanitas took on the form of an *adult* sora, none of that made sense to me without exposition.
And this is coming from the story that made an entire game just to explain why mickey has an inverted kingdom key.
And after seeing the events of the mobile game it appears Vanitas was never a product of Ventus at all but more like a possession that inhabited Ventus. It wouldn't surprise me of Vanitas is much more important to the story than we all thought, or even a time traveler at that.
"I keep forgetting-don't mess with Keyblade wielders. But you know what? That just means I made the right choice! Well... he wanted me to buy time, and I'd say he got it."
What if the "he" Luxu refers to wasn't Xehanort, but actually Vanitas? 👀
I think he is talking about Master of Masters. Luxu became a Keyblade wielder because Mom gave him one. He is buying time for Xehanort because Mom wished it. Destiny, Fate and all that.
broooooo the soundtrack
Vanitas is a litteral Darkness Ven sealed away within himself, which was later torn out by Xehanort and dubbed Vanitas. Of course the darkness is gonna have the name of a sin. The real question is how much of the book of prophecies does Vanitas know? Since the Darkness might be similar to a hive mind, and we can't tell the litteral darknesses appart from each other. Who was the darkness that brought Malificent back to her time or the one that chatted with the Master of Masters and looked over the book of prophecies? Maybe it was Vanitas doing all of them, or maybe he knew Ven's role as his vessel from that hive mind and different darknesses were at work. Since like 4 others certainly appeared in the UX finale and then there was the one speaking with luxu and its hard to tell if that is Luxu's own darkness, or the MOM's, or maybe even the darkness meant for Strelitzia but Strelitzia died so... do we even know what happened to the darkness meant to go to her?
Vanitas is from ven's heart made by his darkness way after cross and has a concretion to both ven and sora since he has sora's appearance when ven shared a piece from sora's heart
The form he takes - as we know and see him, appears to be based on these events and conditions you describe; but Vanitas doesn't seem to believe this in KH3 and claims that he had been hidden there for much longer or something to that effect.
Perhaps I'm too late and this comment won't be noticed, and I have posted a similar one on another video, but I've had a very strong urge to type this out... With my recent KH kick I've been watching all kinds of gameplay, analysis and theory videos regarding the games; but recently I realized something - something that may be the biggest indicator of Vanitas' high potential to make a reappearance in future games!
In KH3, after Ventus & Sora defeat Vanitas in the labyrinth, the Sora questioned why Vanitas won't stand with them despite calling them both his brothers. In his response, Vanitas literally tells them "... I do stand by your side. I'm the shadow that you cast. How much closer could I be?" all the while, smirking/smiling at them.
I think a lot of us dismissed this as him being philosophical/metaphorical about justifying his nature/choice to fight against them, but what if he was actually more literal than we all thought? I mean - think about it: at the conclusion of their conversation, Vanitas seemed almost content with how things were ending...Doesn't that seem a little odd? With what we've seen in BBS, you'd think he'd be upset or outraged to have lost against them, knowing he was about to return to the past where he would eventually fall in his clash against Ventus in BBS.
So what if the reason he was fine with this conclusion was due to knowing that he'll still be around? That his future-self is still alive and lingering around or within Ventus or Sora?
Vanitas is definitely one of the 13 darknesses he is in fact the one who murdered Strelitzia
Great theory, My only problem is that the MOM said he does not like the Darkness so why would he want one to work for him. Having said that, That is what MOM said but considering we don't 100% know what that man is thinking he could be lying when he said that. Having said that overall besides that I love this idea and would want Vanitas to come back in some shape or form for one reason only.....I want to see a fight between him and ROXAS DAMN IT!
Here's the thing, Vanitas hasn't expressed any awareness of who The Master is, it doesn't have to be that The Master has Vanitas working for him, its more that The Master is using him without him knowing.
However, as you stated - we don't know if we can trust The Master at his word yet.
Dude, a Vanitas v. Roxas fight would be incredible, sign me up
@@TheLandiLodge Right the more I think about the way you said it in this video it did sound like you were saying that The Master was more like using Vanitas. My bad LOL.
It make me wonder if there is going to one last Foreteller or someone associated with the former/historical sin, Melancholy. Due to Ava absence no doubt subject X could take up the name that translate to Melancholy in latin.
3:08 and 3:11 pause and look at the emblem/sigil on the MOM zipper thing. Doesn't it kinda look like the Unversed sigil?
Very interesting indeed...
The eye in vanitas’ keyblade doesn’t work like no names.
I hope Vanitas gets a real body. In my story, he acquires a replica and comes back through Sora’s negativity (cuz Vanitas’s heart being linked to Ven is in SORA as in present day Vanitas)🙂
And in said story I have The master indirectly mention Vanitas🤣
What story?
@@yehiahuzayyin7972 I um write a LOT of Fanfiction 😅
@@gracekim25 Yeah, so you said, I was asking for a title. I'm interested.
@@yehiahuzayyin7972 ok so um I need to point out I wrote this in 2019 before they announced KH4 but the story where Vanitas is brought back is called Kingdom hearts 4- The lost Masters saga. It’s on Archive of our own
But thanks for being interested 😊
Fun theory!
I’ve always kept this question in my head of who the hell vanitas is because he’s very different from your normal nobody because Roxas ain’t summoning anything like he does and when he was inside ventus spoil alert btw he kill somebody so what’s really going on with him
I think when vanitus he went back to sora not ven. I think he is filling the hole ven left when he returned. Its now vanitus's turn to be thier for sora.
I still think the name of the MoM is Photos
Close but no cigar
1. When I saw the title, I thought "WTF where does this idea come from?", however as you started to explain your understanding of "Vanitas" it clicked. I understand, but you're kinda wrong. You focus too hard on the english words, which are absolutely irrelevant here. Nomura definitely had the original meaning in mind, especially considering he isn't really well versed in english. But let me explain what I mean by "the original meaning".
Yes, "vanity" (the english word) means something like "unjustified pride" since the 14th century.
The latin word "vanitas" however was originally and should still be translated as "voidness".
"Gloria" means "unjustified pride" or "boasting", however the english term "glory" nowadays is used more in a positive sense, which makes it something like "deserved pride" or just "pride" (but the latter is rather wrong, as glory is gained/achieved, while pride is an inner state, but that's just the english language and doesn't really matter for the context)
A lot of translations and different uses in the english language turned it into what it is nowadays, you can't just take the word it derived from and think it means the same.
And then there is a specific type of paintings called "Vanitas", which literally cemented the original meaning into our history.
"Voidness", "futility", "pointlessness","meaningless", etc.
These paintings follow the theme of "memento mori", meaning the 'certainty of death'.
2. And your video-title is absolute clickbait. You don't adress anything that would make him a "secret foreteller", just a proxy of for MoMs plans. And that also based on a...rather weird assumption.
"Noname" has MoMs eye in it, the "Gazing Eye", which was also the name Master Xehanort gave it, as it originally had "No Name".
There are multiple Keyblades with such an eye.
"Void Gear" (Vanitas' Keyblade)
"Soul Eater" (Rikus first Keyblade)
"Way to the Dawn" (Rikus second Keyblade, or rather the second form of "Soul Eater")
and
"Chaos Ripper" (one of the Keyblades Terra can use in BbS)
While yes, all these eyes probably belong to someone or something, it would be rather odd if MoM was the one that created all of them, considering that....well....a human has 2 eyes.... Yepp.
3. I agree, that Vanitas is definitely on MoMs watchlist, but for reasons that have already been strongly hinted at (and partly explained even).
Vanitas IS Darkness!
Darkness is the enemy of MoM and every being of light (as explained in the last few chapters of Union X), that one is for sure (weither MoM is good or evil doesn't matter. These 2 factions are opposing each other!)
Darkness, or rather "The 13 Darknesses" is a hivemind of 13 similar beings, one of which bond to Ventus early on.
MoM created his plan, so that these Darknesses cannot comprehend how MoM wants to reach his goals (destroying Darkness that is). That's also why the Book of Prophecies was so vague. The "Traitor" mentioned in it as example. There was no 1 single traitor, but multiple instances of treachery. Ava, Ventus, Luxu, the Player, etc.
4. Then there was the interview with Nomura in 2010 in which he talked about Birth by Sleep.
[ www.khinsider.com/news/Full-Nomura-Interview-20-KH-Mysteries-Solved-1366 ]
-- How did you think of Vanitas' name?
Nomura: I wanted to give him a name that meant "empty", and so I looked for something that would be appropriate. When I was searching I found a word that meant "emptiness" in Latin, "Vanitas". It looked a lot like Ventus' name, and in Japanese it has the kanji for "sora" in it, so I thought it was perfect. Of course in Vanitas' case it doesn't mean "sora [sky]" but "kara [empty]" [These two words are written with the same kanji, but are said differently and have different meanings.]
5. Last but not least, in-universe it was Master Xehanort who gave the Darkness that was extracted from Ventus the name "Vanitas".
Tl;dr: The english words have a different meaning that the latin words they originated from. There is only one 'Gazing Eye' belonging to MoM and it's on the "Noname". MoM and Darkness are opposed to each other. Nomura already explained the meaning of the word Vanitas as "emptiness" and it's connection to Sora in the japanese language. And the Darkness called Vanitas got it's name thanks to Master Xehanort.
No