Standalone wireless games are great for casual games, social experiences, and fitness apps. Wireless games that aim to be full single player console like experiences have improved but still have a ways to go. Asgards Wrath 2, Batman, Assassins Creed, Metro, they've raised the bar, but they still arent on the level of a good pcvr port like skyrim, subnautica, no mans sky, or half life 2. I think VR ports are the future (at least for gaming) as they're subsidized by flatscreen version sales, and they have the graphics, robust gameplay, and lots of content. But we need to bridge the gap between affordable and easy to use wireless, and expensive and complicated pcvr.
I think in time, x86 will be able to emulated at the same parity as Proton (Steam Deck for example) and have enough juice to run something like SkyrimVR on low/med on the headset. I'm really excited for that future since the 5090/5080 price rumors.
Id say AA is the beacon of quality not AAA anymore with trash like concord like dragon age the vailguard ect the list goes on especially with AAA western pushing 🤡DEI🤡 agenda BUT NOT JUST THAT AAA has stagnatet and refuses to take Risk and continues to copy paste games like assasins creed as a prime example On the other hand i expect many great games from asia aswell as eastern europe very based devs wukong and stellar blade was great i cant wait for the next wukong game Eastern devs dont push woke DEI For vr AAA lack of willingness to take risk could be very detrimental to vr look at hitmqn for example how many games IOI has screwed up by taking it far to safe
All I can do is share my subjective experience. I've been doing VR since the Oculus DK days. I have noticed on steam, in the discussion boards for almost every game with a FPS perspective, people asking for a VR version with many people chiming in for it. Just a few years ago, it was rare to even see a single person asking for it. It's catching. It's catching slowly, but it's catching.
VR has to be the future. There's only so much you can do with a gamepad and a flat screen. VR is still young and we already have many experiences only possible in VR.
And it'll be so funny that thanks to that Unreal tool, the ACTUALLY best vr experiences make exactly 0 dollar to the companies who made the original game.
I don’t think Meta will abandon gaming because that’s their greatest weapon against visionOS and android XR. The fact that they have a huge gaming library and the others have nothing.
If nobody is interested in vr gaming thats a weak weapon. Batman arkham shadow has like 300.000 players so far according to trophies despite being given away for free and being their biggest game yet. 300.000 people is totally irrelevant for mass market adoption
Companies need to make money. If meta is not able to turn vr gaming to a profitable business, they will spend less money for it. I don‘t think they will completly shut it down, but it will hurt.
It's a pity so many of you fall for zuckerburg. He cannot be trusted. He'll pull the rug out from under you when you least expect it. I've seen him do what he wants when he feels like it contract to the public be damned. I do NOt trust him.
I hope Meta annouce a new Standalone banger soon, we had Assassins Creed Nexus VR and Asgards Wrath 2 in 2023 and Batman Arkham Shadow in 2024 Quest exclusives are the best VR games
Got my Quest 3 a month ago. It is far ahead of my old WMR headset, much better image, more comfortabe and no wires. Playing PC VR games wireless via Wifi is a great experience and so is just playing standalone games on this headset. I think we are still in the beginning stage of VR gaming but we are making great progress. The Quest 3 has great tech at a great price point with just a few issues left that need to be adressed.
You have quest game optimizer yet? It’s on holiday sale and pretty much mandatory to install and use in my opinion. For $6 the quality of experience improvement across hundreds of apps makes it very worthwhile.
Hey Metteo, not to argue but meta got Batman... PSVR2 got the polished version of Behemoth, Metro, Alien, and soon (counting no delays, well see) Hitman. Im just curious why you think PS is dealing with thier headset poorly. I love thier headset.
@gordontechreviews i dont believe he is, but i will admit it does come off that way a little. Too much favoritism to any product online has a tendancy to vibe that way.
I used to do that too, but there’s a pretty good number of steam VR games now but just simply don’t work. The developers don’t maintain them for example sprint vector. Every time I launch the game, it just goes back to the main menu on Steam.
I started with that mindset. Long since stopped. Mostly I can't be bothered to turn on the pc lol. I have a rock solid VD setup, so it's not that. Ultimately if I shifted, anything I've brought native on Quest, and also exists on Steam, you can pick up for pennies retrospectively
@growtocycle6992 Yeah, an option I guess, but if I'm on holiday it's hopefully the last thing I'm doing or considering doing lol. However, the innate portable nature is great for family / friends gatherings, with a chrome cast or similar, to give ppl a taster etc
@@growtocycle6992 PCVR(SteamVR) will also get standalone in the future. The new Valve VR Headset is rumored to be a hybrid device running on the SteamOS. Hybrid meaning you can play it on standalone and via cable.
Thanks for another great and thoughtful video...! I'm 53, and growing up, I was always super excited about VR technology, but it wasn't there for many years. I bought the Quest 2 on release to experience Microsoft Fight Simulator, but I thought I'll just give Skyrim VR ago first AND OMG with a few mods I was AMAZED. I must have spent 2000hrs in there. Obviously, VR is super demanding, so I learned to squeeze every last frame and every last pixel of resolution out of my RTX 2060. Eventually, I gave the trusty 2060 to my son and bought the mighty 4090 and a Q3 with a loan. So now I'm playing Cyberpunk 2077 and MSFS and ABSOLUTELY loving it. Looking at a game on a monitor is archaic compared to being in a world and appreciating every little detail the devs spent hours creating. The VR industry is only moving slowly because the big profits are not there for them yet. All I can say is that they will be and thank God for big companies like Meta, who are driving the industry forward at a financial loss. ALL THE BEST AND HAPPY NEW YEAR....!
Meta isn't driving the market forward. They are doing the opposite. Their interest is control over the VR store. Valve is one of the most profitable companies in the world thanks to Steam. Meta wants the same for VR, and they will kill PCVR to do it.
@@a5centThat's a very foolish sentiment. I honestly can't see how without the Quest line of headsets, VR would still be a think. Pcvr has been effectively dead for 2+ years. Vr games are mostly developed for standalone and ported to pc, not the otherwsy around like a few years ago
@@stuartburns8657 Nah. The point just went over your head. You seem to be primarily interested in VR, no matter its form, or whose walled garden surrounds it. In contrast, I don't think VR is worth saving at all costs. If Nintendo-VR, controlled by a single company, is all that remains, I'd prefer it just went away. VR can only succeed with a large user base. Meta is only addressing the cost side of the problem by TEMPORARILY selling VR headsets at or below cost (which pushes others out of the market). The software however is a joke. Both problems need to be addressed and Meta is purposefully making it more difficult to achieve advancement on the software side.
@@a5cent Alit of accurate points there. Yes Meta is having to heavily subsidise VR, both hardware and the occasional 'big' game. Numbers are required yes, hense the above. Where do you feel VR would have been if Meta hadn't taken over Oculus? £500 (and often much more) with the mess of tethered headsets and expensive PC's? Yes I'm a fan of VR in general. I like the Japanese saying: "The rising tide lifts all boats" I agree 2025-27 will be the telling years from Meta's perspective. We've already seen that they've had to introduce the Q3S at £300, thus seems to be the price sweet spot and entry point for the masses. As a father of 2, I find it easier to fire up the Quest than mess about with my more than adequate pc for VR as I mentioned (I think) With several friends, I'm not alone in almost totally having abandoned flat screen gaming. The only exceptions are when I mess about on the kids switch with the odd indie game lol
Your point about the PSVR2 seems to be that you dont think Sony will make much money off it. But as a consumer, why would I care about that? They are still actively supporting it, proven by the fact they've partnered with Apple for hand tracking. As an owner of both a Quest 3 and the PSVR2, the PSVR2 has given me the better experience.
This last year was amazing for VR. I don't think we are getting crapped on with Meta because there is no other choice. You want to TRUST another company to deliver a great headset by spending your $ on them? We are getting crapped on by these other companies honestly.
@MartinOReilly-mb4um Are you talking about Echo? I feel bad for those gamers. Also for the developers that try to get games onto their store. I'm not going to hold a grudge tho. Companies don't make the best decisions all the time. Where would VR be without Meta? Where should I place my faith? HTC, Pimax, Samsung, Sony, Pico,Apple,Valve?
My thoughts are the Quest 3 & 3S are the first XR headsets that really are ready for proper mainstream appeal. Having good Mixed Reality can’t be overstated, because MR experience (especially multiplayer ones like Demeo) are sooooooooooo much easier for noobs to lean and enjoy. The hardest thing with the Quest 2 was trying to teach someone how to use it.
So far, I've seen a ton of people personally who never had any interest in VR, including myself jump in with the Quest 3 and 3S. So from my personal experience it definitely seems to me getting more mainstream appeal and I think Batman has been a huge selling point. I got on board after seeing the graphics in Batman and the game length and so did a lot of people I know, till now we wrote VR off as short games/tech demo's. Then after seeing all the ads and some videos of Batman and finally taking the jump and getting a 3 I finally realise I've been missing out on a ton. Right now I'm playing Metro and having a blast, sure it might not be skyrocketing to everyone just yet but I really feel like it's starting to pop onto more people's radar who like me made assumptions
The only reason "the gap is closing" between PCVR and Queest is because developers are hitting mobile hardware targets as that is where the install base is. Games that push PC hardware are still drastically more impressive. The comparison of Asgards Wrath 1 and 2 graphical fidelity alone tells the picture as far as power. I have a Quest 3 and enjoy it but it still feels like an entry-point to VR rather than the final destination.
When talking about how the gap is closing, it's not really purely about graphical fidelity. When the first Quest headset launched the most "complex" game design for standalone at the time was something like Journey of the Gods. This was nearly 2 whole years after Lone Echo, and a few months before Asgard's Wrath, and the game practically looks like Jumping Flash in comparison to those. Even a faithful port of a PS2/GameCube era title like Resident Evil 4 was a pipedream for standalone at the time. There is notably less of a gap between titles like Arkham Shadow, Asgard's Wrath II, Assassin's Creed Nexus, Behemoth and Metro Awake not only graphically but also in terms of game scope and complexity than there was in the earlier years. It's not too different from how mobile phone gaming (circa iPhone 3GS) had comparatively extremely simple and basic flagship titles like Fruit Ninja or Temple Run, and now even though in terms of raw specs there's still a huge gulf, it's a lot narrower in terms of the overall game complexity with consoles and PC when titles like Fortnite, Genshin Impact or even Resident Evil Village are fully playable on mobile devices too. There's an element of diminishing returns as base level specs increase. There's not a lot of games available for PS5 for example that couldn't have been reasonably approximated on PS4 (which is why there have been so many cross-generation titles compared to previous generations), whereas the jump between PS1 to PS2 was massive and the majority of PS2 titles even at launch would have had no hope of seeing a reasonable PS1 version. Quest 3 is starting to hit around the PS3/360 level of game complexity (and graphics), and we're probably a standalone headset generation or two away from PS4 level. At this point we've reached already, game budgets are starting to become more of a limiting factor than the actual power of the headset, which is why there's few dedicated PCVR titles that are even competitive with the scope of the likes of Assassin's Creed Nexus or Arkham Shadow. Nobody's putting Cyberpunk 2077 money into a VR game no matter how powerful the headsets get. The overall VR audience isn't there for that, not simply the ratio between standalone vs console/PC. That a 2019 PCVR title still practically stands alone on that side going into 2025 speaks volumes.
The gap is also closing because PCVR has completely stagnated for a long-ass time. No devs are making games that are too big and complex to run on a Quest... So the PCVR games we get are Quest-tier complexity (which can be quite complex) with higher res textures and better lighting. The graphics is really the entire difference these days. For people who don't do simulators there hasn't been much new on PCVR in the last 5 years. Even if you do like sims, not much has come out because the simulator genre has also been really slow for a long time. It's not like the 90s when we got 3-5 new flight sims every year.
Not going to lie the state of psvr2 right now is better then I ever imagined. So many new games and hand tracking coming soon makes me excited for the future of psvr2. Goodbye meta
@@simonoregan4744it’s the first vr I have owned, and it’s not that bad you get used to it being there and the oled screens make the games pop fr, tho I haven’t tried quest 3 only 2
I dunno I would argue gameplay mechanics are generally more interesting in VR then Flat Screen gaming. There has been hardly any real leaps in gameplay mechanics in flatscreen gaming for 12-15 years (more so in the AA and AAA space) and I would argue we have seen so much of those mechanics stripped down over time. We somehow have worse enemy ai and physics in flatscreen gaming compared to what we were seeing in the PS3/360 era.
Amen! I simply couldn't agree more. It is my hope that with today's AI technology, this will improve in the near future in some aspect you pointed out!
Couldn't agree more! I am currently playing Sleeping Dogs: The Definitive Edition and just amazed on how better the gameplay and world feel than a lot of modern games. I also find Batman Arkham Shadow a lot more immersive than most flat games.
Im happy pcvr is not where the main focus is for vr anymore because most people don't have 1-2k for a gaming pc plus 1k for a vr... With meta for example we are having so many sales that its actually finally making vr accessible and mainstream and so more and more studios are interested to make new games or even headsets
you don't even need that much for VR unless you're trying to play everything on "ultra" settings. I started off PCVR during COVID with a PC I built over a decade ago that had an AMD FX-8350 & 16GB of RAM. I went & bought an RTX-3060 to replace the RX580 I had, which at the time cost me about $400 new. took me about a year to get used to VR & I wanted to dive in deeper after learning more about mods (mainly Praydog's RE mod, Alyx mods & Skyrim VR) before I wound up going & dropping $2300 to build myself a new PC in 2022. the only reason it was even THAT much is because I built it myself instead of buying a pre-built & I bought an RTX-3080 Ti brand new. I didn't HAVE to build such a high-end PC (for instance, I have 96GB of RAM because I also run VMs for other things) & I know that because I just built a PCVR capable PC for someone for around $600 as they already had a Quest 2. PCVR is very accessible on a budget. the most you'll really find yourself spending is on a GPU & even those are cheap enough on the used market.
@2007hype i spend 350 for a 3s and nothing else. What you are saying is not really budget friendly. You are saying that i need to pay at least a thousand to play pcvr and you think that it is accessible for people?
Cutscenes in half Lyfe Alyx are not boring. I think watching Kratos going ham on an enemy in VR would be sweet. What's not... Slow, tedious, low fidelity (pixelated) tutorials
There is so much potential for VR in my opinion, devs just need to think outside of the box and create more gamrs that require you to actually interact with the objects and environments in a game. We already have plenty of shooters and hack n slash games. It's time for something new. I personally want to see a monster catching game like pokemon in VR.
Whew! I think VR is fantastic and only just beginning. It should totally have a marketing plan towards seniors. My great wish is for physical drum and guitar controllers-- and even trombone for that game that seems to be getting good reviews-- and such for music and rhythm games.
My biggest problem with vr over the years has been that the majority of games have been of the cartoony variety and seemed aimed at kids. I guess hardware issues in the beginning for stand alone has been the reason, after all vr studios are going to target the biggest audience which is still Meta and so the rest of the market suffers from the lowest common denominator. But this has been changing as of late with games like Metro, Batman, Bohemeth, Into the Radius, etc. I am really hopeful for Aces of Thunder because it's the kind of thing that will drive more people into vr on an adult mainstream level. You can still have those kiddie type games but those do very little to appeal to most adult gamers. I think vr is finally on the right track and will appeal to more people over time. I have had friends who I've put into the headset with easy to pick up games, more on the kiddie side of things and most have said it's fun but won't move them into buying one. But then put them into GT7 and the opinions change drastically. One even went out and bought one after where others say they need more games like it before they'll buy one. So it's the realistic feeling games that will drive vr to become more mainstream
I mean, most games are still built around the Quest 2. More and more bigger modern VR titles are going away from cartoony. There is nothing wrong with stylization if the graphical fidelity is good though. Also keep in mind d that most VR games are made by indie studios.
I think one aspect of hope for PCVR that was missed in the video... the creation of mods to existing good flat games to make them VR games. I for one have had the game "outer wilds" in my steam library for a long time but never got around to playing it. Now, a mod exist that allows me to play it on my Quest 3 and even though the game came out in 2019... it's probably one of the best VR games I have ever played. After I finish that game, I will probably look for more VR modded games to play... maybe even Cyberpunk 2077.
Couple things. 1. UE5/VRmods have come a long long way over the last year 2. The 5000 series will allow a lot of people to refresh their hardware to bring it up to spec for VR mods and original VR content. I think we're already seeing a VRmod revolution, but with the new cards hitting and a lot of community projects hitting for better controls etc. that we're going to see a bit of a revolution in the PCVR space.
i can imagine in 10 years that VR will be new standard while flat screen is optional like PC vs console nowadays, since in the early days video games is always about engaging player with "other worlds", what is more engaging, than being in that virtual world itself inside VR
If i were an investor who knew nothing about vr, the lack of growth since the quest 3 would be very worrying trend. Meta really needs to knock it out of the park for the quest 4. It needs to be a tangible, must have upgrade. The hype outside of the vr community also seems to have died down in the last year or 2. Meta needs to find a way to reignite it. TOTF 2 was the only thing i noticed that created some hype and excitement outside of vr. Definitely a system seller. It has so much potential with the combat sports and fitness community.
I think we need more on the software side, not the hardware side. The Nintendo Switch is a huge success because of the games. Hardware is only a means to use software. With that said, I think the Quest should include a better headstrap with good weight balance, as that will help a lot with retention.
2 дня назад
Big picture...AndroidXR is the one to watch...i been saying it since OG Quest...#Android6dofVR...Android is the secret sauce that ppl are refusing to acknowledge...Quest has beyond a doubt proven Android is the best VR OS. AndroidXR is stock Android for VR...if u dont understand the implications of that...u prolly still dont understand why the Quest is everywhere...
@@blastofo I agree, but the reason the switch has so many great games is because so many people have it that it is lucrative to sell games for it so it's a bit of both, good hardware and a couple system seller games.
In my opinion, PCVR should be considered like a PC. Although consoles exists, it never quite took over the PC market and there are games coming out constantly using the PC hardware. Consoles are good, but you aren’t going to find groundbreaking experiences with them that are next generation. I think that Meta and PCVR can live in the same market but developers need to step out of the Meta Market and make quality experiences that Meta will catch up to. Stand-alone will eventually be as good as PCVR now so games which limit themselves to Meta’s current technology are only hurting themselves for the long run.
It's simple, it is too expensive to develop for it. It is already a VERY niche market, and if you start developing graphically enhanced experiences with more complex systems, it will become even more expensive and will also reach an even smaller target audience, that cannot afford strong computers to handle it. Think of this with a business perspective: "Is it really worth it to spend a lot of money and resources to develop something that will reach less than 10% of the entire market?" The question answers itself.
@ VR needs to grow for my thoughts to even be viable. We are currently in a strange phase for VR where we need the innovation to grow the market but there is no reward currently for said innovations. Meta was an innovation, especially the Quest headsets, but there has been no real innovation since. Meta lost 11 billion dollars in VR but they grew the market immensely - however the loss shows the sacrifices companies must make to make VR a possible and accessible market. The Deckard might be a successful headset and that will boom the VR industry, maybe making PCVR games possible to stand-alone customers. Then again, Valve is obviously ready to make a loss so that VR can grow
The best VR games are Standalone exclusives You notice that games like Batman and Asgards Wrath are more polished than the multiplatform games It's much more simple for devs to develop, since you need to only test for a single hardware and a single headset
@@ZFCaio Agreed, but you are also forgetting games like Into the Radius and Vertigo 1 & 2. They are both (in my opinion) better than any game on standalone. Arkham Shadows is an excellent game but the fact that it’s on stand-alone shows. I personally prefer a more ‘Into the Radius’ approach where you lose features and graphics to make the overall game better. With this, we push what is possible for VR and get better, stronger games for both PCVR and Stand-alone players (also the best VR game is PCVR: Half Life: Alyx)
"The best VR games are Standalone exclusives" That is factually false. The only case could be Arkham Shadow. But then, most of the titles are in both platforms if not on PC only. Only out of my memory I can think of Metro Awakening Alien rouge incursion Alyx, while old, still relevant. Then you have games like into the radius that was pc first then quest.
So I just showed my almost 90 year old aunt a 3d movie in bigscreen and an immersive 180 vid on my quest 3 and she was in awe.... we are definitely in a great place w vr and excited for this year. 🔥🔥😁✌️
PCVR isn't the solution. Most people can't afford a 2000k gaming PC and a 500k VR headset. Standing alone is the way it is more user-friendly and cheaper to get into. Quest just needs to invest in more AAA games to spark invest for gamers to jump in.
i got 3s as treat for myself as bought house got 6 weeks renovations. got it tax free switzerland got batman 3 months of plus and via yt code 60 francs of credits. Got loads games in the sale. and might not be greatest but for that price and all the games i got its amazing.
Most newer releases on Meta are stand alone only but somehow Meta has still been adding new PCVR games to their Rift store. They've added -Metro Awakening -Sydance's Behemoth -Contractors Showdown EXFILZONE -Arizona Sunshine 2 -Arizona Sunshine Remake -Hubris These are more recent releases that are currently in Meta's PCVR store. How come Meta is still adding these PCVR games?
@@stuartburns8657 I was wondering the same thing. A fact is that they don't seem to put any of their exclusives on PCVR perhaps because they want to use the exclusives to sell their stand-alone headsets.
When it comes to discussing why VR / AR isn't catching on as quickly as we all would like, you totally ignored the elephant in the room on this one. VR motion sickness is the "feature" that turns off the first timer who try VR at a family members house without the proper preparation. Getting sick on your first experience (which many do) turns them off on VR and they may never try it again, thus never WANTING to build up their "VR legs". I don't know how much technology plays a part in preventing VR motion sickness, but acknowledging that it exists and can be a MAJOR DOWNER for first time experiences, along with some PR explaining how to properly expose your first-time family member to that which you are exited to, would be helpful. Great Video. See you next year.
I had both Quest 2 and psvr over the years but I gave up on vr until the headsets get alot lighter and smaller, more like a pair of glasses. See you in around 5-10 years.
For me to get back into vr they need to do some kind of depth/ optics innovation to limit eye strain, and something much lighter, my last headset was the Quest pro, it was small but still heavy. If they can do this while keeping the price under 1500 USD, that would be cool
Gaming has always been a means to and end for VR. VR is not just a gaming platform. They want it to be a new general compute device. Meta wants to be the next Apple and MS. They are a trillion dollar company that can and will continue invest for this future. Gaming was just the easiest way to show off what VR can do as VR has to be experienced, it can't be explained. Meta will continue to make games as does most hardware manufacturers such as Sony and Microsoft. They will likely market the products less as just a gaming platform tho, which is what we want. We need a larger broader audience. Meta VR is stacking up to be more like the "PC" of VR, offering a device that does so much more than just games. The value that a Quest 3 has over any other VR device is pretty incredible. We can watch media, meet new people, experience MR, work, shop, exercise, and game. They want to get to the point where you can do everything in it without having to take it off. Once it gets smaller and more ergonomic, VR will become more than just a hobby for kids.
2 дня назад
AndroidXR...will be the OS of spacial computing... #Android6dofVR #OGQuest #Googlecardboard #VROS
It might be one or them but Google tried this before and gave up. Google is one of the least trustworthy companies when it comes to putting effort in. They will drop support on a whim. Anyways. I'm talking about Meta and their plans. Not Googles.
Eventually it'll all be incorporated into a pair of lifestyle glasses where you'll be able to do anything, including vr games. 9.6 million vr headsets sold apparently in 2024 so thats an 8% rise year on year. Google, samsung, Apple etc all now involved. Not to mention a rising adoption here and in China of the glasses. We ain't seen nothing yet. I increasingly am "in" my Quest 3 rather than "on" my ps5. I love it:)
Dont under estimate high end VR gaming. PCVR still has approx 3.5 million users on Steam so its still very much a viable market for developers, throw in PSVR2 as well and high end gaming is still in the game, There are more PCVR/PSVR2 players than Quest 3 players by a substantial amount. The Quest 3 hasnt sold like the Quest 2. I agree the Quest 3 is very capable but you need a AAA studio behind a game to bring it close to PCVR standard and how many of those do we have in the entire VR industry?
Quest 3 not selling as much as Quest 2 is actually a negative when it comes to PCVR/PSVR2, because it keeps the lowest common spec being the Quest 2, and so developers remain more inclined to continue to develop for that spec in order to have the largest potential audience to sell to. The comparatively quick death of the original Quest jumped standalone VR gaming forwards more quickly, as the bottom floor was raised sooner. I'm also not entirely sure that there are far more PCVR + PSVR2 players than Quest 3/3S players at this point. It's important to remember that Quest headsets are also the most popular PCVR headsets too. So of 3.1m (based on Steam hardware survey results of 132m Steam users with 2.4% having VR), almost 600k of those users are on a Quest 3, and around 1.2m of those are on a Quest 2 still. Given the target market for standalone devices doesn't overlap that heavily with people powerful PC rigs, there are going to be far more standalone users than will be reflected on Steam, and Quest headsets already account for 50% of that total. There isn't really a PCVR standard as of today. The Quest 2 is still the primary target spec, and anything targeting above that is an exception currently. PCVR gets a bit of a leg up when compared with PSVR2 because it benefits from VR modes of a lot of cockpit-based games (racers, MSFS, etc), but outside of that the landscape is basically Quest titles running at higher levels of fidelity, and a handful of exceptions like Vertigo 2, Subside and the like. It would take a pretty big shift (next Valve headset?) back towards PCVR or PSVR2 before the standard for either of those platforms rises above what developers can get to run on a standalone device. Right now the financial incentives just aren't really there for it.
The glory days of PCVR are just beginning for me. I'm about to upgrade from the Quest 3 to the Pimax Crystal Super. I'd rather play AAA games in VR than cartoony tech demos on the Quest store.
Rather harsh and elitist. If the vr immersion is right I'll play it and enjoy it regardless. Despite owning a pc capable of pcvr, it's rarely my go to choice. Pcvr feels like it's been on life support for the last 2+ years. Even if valve bring out a hla2, it'll only be a brief blip on the heart rate monitor
@ I’ve been playing more and more AAA games in VR lately. The list keeps growing. I spent like 200 hours in cyberpunk VR, and will probably spend another 200 in Avatar Frontiers of Pandora. I think it keeps getting better.
@@djp1234 I refunded Cyberpunk at the beginning, and last I saw, any vr mods for it don't include hand tracking? Without handtracking, I find it too immersion breaking, using KBM or game controller
We need to be talking about the lack of optimization in the current batch of PCVR games. Alien: RI runs like a dumpsterfire, makes me glad that I have a PSVR2. Whereas Alyx runs smooth as butter, with everything cranked. Batman is the only Quest 3 exclusive so far, and nicely optimized at that. Arken Age is the outlier here, runs incredibly smoothly on my RTX 4060. Also, VIrtual Desktop + the Puppis SI is magical, on a well optimized game. Speaking of smaller multiplayer pool, it's criminal that Hellsweeper only has 40 players max at any one time. It has crossplay on every platform, and the devs are -still- supporting it! 😍. Arken Age reminds me of Stormlands quite a bit, in terms of the upgradable gear, multiple combat options, and non-human main character.
PCVR will continue to suffer because GPU prices are sky-high and NVIDIA has no reason to lower them. If your argument is that PCVR offers the *highest fidelity* then you're going to require a X070, X080, or X090 GPU--and just that single component will cost $600-$2800. Yes, there will be some gamers willing to throw thousands of dollars on their PC AND thousands of dollars on PCVR kit, but it'll never be mainstream. And that's 100% fine--the sim community is the best example of a niche group that will throw thousands of $$$ on PCVR, GPUs, motion rigs, high-end yokes, etc. But your average gamer ain't doing that. And if/when Valve comes out with a new headset, you better believe it will have wireless streaming so PCVR fanboys will need to dial-back trash-talking that tech. Ultimately the old adage "convenience always trumps fidelity" applies to VR just like everything else. Standalone kit is more convenient, more versatile, and establishes VR as a separate tech platform whilst PCVR reduces VR to an accessory and tethers the user to an anchor. Folks can chimp-scream about how PCVR is sooo much better all they like, but consumers have spoken: standalone VR/MR is what the vast majority want and Google, Samsung, Meta, and Apple each have a multi-billion dollar strategy to deliver it. PCVR has Pimax and HTC. How's that workin' out?
I'm hopeful that Arken Age will deliver and raise the bar for indie VR. We need worlds to explore, free jump, etc. Way too many linear experiences. Also, great video/analysis.
I've been avoiding the Quest HMDs. But my Index died and to be honest the Quest 3 looks like the way to go for the price especially considering I mostly only play rhythm games, sports, or workout games etc.
"The glory days of PCVR are over, and we just have to acknowledge that". Not necessarily. Meta may be the 800 lb gorilla, but Valve is a 100 lb Doberman that we still have yet to hear from. Let's see what they come up with before we play taps for PCVR.
@@sonicsnake44 Of course it does. The reason nobody is making native PCVR games is because FAR more people have stand alone headsets. If Valve comes up with something for PCVR that people start buying, PCVR will become a lot more attractive to developers again. It won't happen overnight, and for all I know it won't happen at all. I'm just saying let's wait and see before we sign the death certificate on PCVR.
@@sonicsnake44 You need to keep in mind what Valve is doing right now. They have SteamOS, their own operating system for their devices, which can also be downloaded onto a PC. Meaning that Gamers might not be using Windows anymore, but instead the SteamOS, that has Steam pre-installed. Any VR, console, or PC device running SteamOS will use Steam to access their games aswell. Companies can so create standalone/pcvr VR headsets that will use the Steam as the Game Libary and as the Operation System
I at the moment only have an psvr2 headset but after i adjusted and no longer have any form of motion sickness anymore, wow do i love it, haven’t played a single flat screen game since. Soooo immersive. I play: Into the radius No man’s sky Red matter 2 Behemoth RE 4 + 8 GT 7 and will be picking up Metro, Arken Age and more in the future. Love VR and as an 50 year old gamer my child hood fantasy after watching Lawnmower man came to full fruition. In the future i will invest in PCVR but await the new GPU’s and headsets, no hurry, PSVR2 is great for now! So happy VR is taking off and really hope for a bright future! Best
Meta goes in the right direction with the idea of getting a device that reduce the weight dramatically, so, in that sense, I do not see the need of releasing nothing new if it is not orientated to that goal. We have to keep in mind that the current system is restrained (full resolution of the glasses need to be activated by developer modes) , so potencial already there... now just need to focus on weight and, hopefully, on haptic systems too. The visor who offers the lighter possible device should have an advantage, at least, they will have me as client.
While I'm not super optimistic about Sony's support for PSVR 2 these days, I don't think the situation is quite as doom and gloom as you're suggesting. They just showed off hand-tracking demos at a recent industry event, and rolled out a new form of reprojection for the Pro patch of GT7. Why would they be working on this tech if they're just clearing out their inventory? Also, why haven't they made more of the PC VR adapters if that's their plan to clear their stock. The adapter's still sold out most places last I checked. Do I think they're making more big budget first-party VR games like Horizon CotM? No. But it's clear their R&D department at least isn't done with PSVR 2. I think they still believe VR has a future, so they're using PSVR 2 as a test bed to work on tech like hand-tracking, and third-party devs can use what they produce if they want. They might also add a VR mode to a flat game or two, or sign a deal for a bigger hybrid title here and there (the Hitman WoA announcement wasn't too long ago). Not the level of support I'd hoped for, but I don't think they're disappearing either.
Sony just doesn't have enough money to fuel VR's growth. Meta does, but they're committed to wireless. Microsoft could potentially make their next console VR capable, and develop a headset, or license Meta's headset, and use their funds and portfolio of developers to create VR modes for many flatscreen games, and do what Sony has failed to do. I think there's a good chance of this happening. Microsoft has taken a stab at nearly every consumer tech market out there. And they can afford multi billion dollar flops since they're a financial juggernaut.
@@quoththekraven5911 I actually bought a psvr2 and a ps5 just to play it a few days ago. Enjoying RE8, GT7, and will play RE4 remake after. But aside from those games, i'm not sure if there's anything else to play that I can't play on Quest or PCVR. The PSVR2 has some awesome features, but the reprojection, mura, small sweet spot, and quality of the lenses really hurts it. Its also the only VR headset i've used thats given me nausea, but i've overcome that.
@blastofo all fair points. Gt7 is wild, the REs are great. I haven't owned or tried any other headsets so I can't say anything one way or another. Maybe one day, who knows. If Sony kills PSVR then I'll have to grab something else.
I appreciate your "state of the union" here for VR, but I was surprised you did not touch on the one mystery item I am holding out hope for. I am still in the PCVR camp and I don't mind that the games I play the most are older titles... they are also titles I will be able to sink more hours in than I could ever reasonably do - things like X:Rebith VR, No Man's Sky and Elite Dangerous (Yes, I love the Space Sim more than any other genre - and hope Star Citizen gets VR support one day). But the big wildcard to me is the Deckard. There are a couple tidbits in the leaks that entertain the idea of an incorporated ReShade or something similar. And if I am honest, if the one thing it does really well is enable a gamer to play a flat screen game in 3D (not even immersive VR), then it will change everything for gaming. If it also enables players to play a 3D game in a VR head tracking mode (think Cyberpunk 2077 without Luke Ross's mod) with Steam Deck controls - and I can see how that could be possible (especially for any first person game that uses a mouse look system) I know, that is all full on speculation and not really the state of VR today, but with the success of what the Steam Deck does well, and the fact Valve is tying Deckard to that... I am really excited for whatever does come out. Personally, while I can see what the other companies are aiming for, Valve and Steam are a game store and their focus is to enable you to play the games you have in your Steam library and for you to buy more games. If they can deliver a product that has Steam Deck impact that is also VR capable and compatible, then we are looking at another revolution in PC gaming and not just VR gaming. I am hoping that day does come in 2025... and in the mean time I do have the Quest 3... which is a pretty amazing headset in itself.
I feel like flatscreen consoles are reaching to that endpoint that they will no longer be able to upgrade to anything much better than what it already is now the release of cod 6 kinda proves this because when they added the crazy movement thinking it was going to bring a new age to something it actually backfire and a lot of people completely disengaged from call of duty, the ps5 came out and all they did was just 🆙 the picture rate, kind feels like the iPhone trend going on. personally, for this reason is why I will always invest in VR instead of consuls now being a OG PS4 and Xbox player.
my quest encouraged me to get a good gaming pc for vr and i'm definitely finding that they are not making games to the same quality as i was expecting which is of course quite disappointing. but the big thing is gaming in general is on the down slope. everything is multiplayer and loot box or has a million screaming kids. i still would have loved to experience that anthem 2.0 they were working on but the micro transactions weren't making enough for ea. i think most people can agree that graphics aren't an issue if the gameplay is fun and there is enjoyable writing, writing that does not FORCE political, social, or moral beliefs on the consumer. I absolutely want people to put that stuff in their games and stories, but obviously it is not going to sell well if it alienates entire audiences. the tutorial of the Oculus quest was one of my favorite graphical sequences i've seen in the entire quest lifetime, i'm still waiting for someone to use that simple style in a game.
PCVR will never be dead. The group you find most in the PCVR space are adults interested in simulator experiencences, who are willing to pay more money for higher end graphics. You were comparing Pimax to 3S like the only difference is weight, come on now. Standalone will never be able to accommodate motion sims and 15 peripheral USB cockpit panels. But to fire up Walkabout Mini Golf or play some popular shooter game, the days of PCVR are over.
well yes, XR is big... but yout totallly missed out VR cloud gaming. This is huge. You dont need a pc, just your quest headset... thats the main future in gaming for me to overcome the restricts of a headset computing power
1:55 ... What I don't understand is why more developers can't ship two versions of their game that actually looks dramatically different. Take Contractor's Showdown... Yes, the PCVR version looks better but does it look HL:Alyx better? NO! Why don't we see increased polygon counts, dramatically higher texture resolutions, better lighting, etc? Would love for an experienced dev to give their honest take here because it feels like when we DO get PCVR games they're often just ports of Quest first games, so the graphics are not as good as one would hope.
Time and money, the 2 platforms are worlds apart and are completely different work flows. I'm a pcvr dev and to add quest version would take another year, and more relevantly, if I was a quest dev it would still take like half a year for a proper pc version
HL:A had one thing that people didn’t notice. Really small tunneled levels. It’s one part of the vr triangle Small levels, bad textures, repetitive gameplay. It’s easy to have a big level, that’s mostly empty, with low textures, where the systems are… basic…?
@@JD-od6tw can i ask could older games like titanfall and evolve be made into VR supported games? I really feel these two games would make great VR games and they are IPs that already exist.
2 дня назад+1
@@tattoodrdokeWith UEVR and/or VorpX...there is prolly already a mod that exists for it...
I never understood the hate for squeakers. As far as how they affect my gaming experience, they're just like adults (with equal proportions of cool vs toxic players) except their voices are higher pitch.
As much as I love VR, it needs to grow up a bit. Most games are always lacking. It’s either levels are small, graphics are super basic, or its features and controls are very basic (including gameplay) We need hardware to move forward so we don’t stagnate. The games we have today that people rave about always fall flat to most PC vr games. It saddened me when people were comparing metro to Alyx. As if they were even on the same plane. Small levels should mean great gameplay at the least, never mind poor interactivity. I also think that reviewers are to blame because every new game (it seem) is “the next half life Alyx” lol Not sure if they’re shilling or if they truly believe that, but either way it’s disappointing that mediocre games are getting such high ratings/reviews. I’d say I use my quest 3 as 90% PCVR headset. And the market for games seems to be flooded with wave shooters or just basic interactivity. We are at like a 7 year old, for vr games. Some things are neat, but it’s just the same weird stuff over and over.
And yes, I did use the same account. They did ask that I only have one account and when I bought my new headset, my phone paired up immediately that the first one didn’t do my tablet paired up immediately that the first one didn’t do the visual was outstanding compared to the first one and it kept having like little blackouts which the new one is not doing🤷♀️ Thanks again for all this advice on your channel 🙏
Agree to disagree with you there. The ONLY reason I bought my Quest3 is to play PC flight sims. I have no interest whatsoever in playing stand alone VR games
i think if they can get the mindset for people to have games where they just sit down like you normally would playing a game, and used the headset as a massive screen and to have the ability to move ur head around in the environment.. This would be a good step. It's way more immersive than even a massive tv or the largest ultrawide you can find.. but you dont have to deal with the clunky joy sticks and the cliche VR tech gameplay. There are loads of mods to do this, like in skyrim, or cyberpunk and they always get prasied.. yet they are still so focused on making one trick pony vr games with some crappy hand movement and 2 hour battery life max. At least sitting down, you can plug into your pc, use its gpu, and not worry about battery life.
I was thinking this for a while. There is even a RUclips video you can view of Hellish Quart in 3D and it drastically ups the immersion. You play it exactly as a flat-screen game but the depth brings it to life.
@@Drstrange3000 yeah agreed, the immersion factor is the main thing for me with vr rn. Until we get to the SAO, Ready Player One type of VR (which will probs be in 100-200 years minimum..) VR is just niche for the standing throwing ur arms around crap. Using it like a headset that just engulfs your eyes entirely into a game is the biggest plus.
PCVR is great! I've played some great PC games in VR over the last few weeks: Contractors Showdown BEHEMOTH Metro Awakening Alien: Rogue Incursion With UEVR: Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora Cyberpunk 2077 Hogwarts Legacy
Lets count up the number of real quality playable games (not lawnmowers and s#!t) that were realeased each year since 2017. Make yourself a little chart and draw a line between each year. Then you can see the direction of VR gaming. ➡️↘️⬇️
Being new to this space it seems that pcvr still has a bright future as it appears pimax is maturing, they seem to have had great success with the crystal light, and the pimax super seems promising. IF we can get deckard this year it would be huge.
I just finished Behemoth!!! It was so good! My favorite Behemoth was the bat fight by far. The only problem now is I don't know what to play next weekend. I hope you and your beautiful family had a nice new year!.... I worked Tuesday, so I could only stay up till 11......
I'm wondering why there aren't more official conversions of classic games to VR, or specifically the Meta store. I can't imagine it would be that difficult to release a version of e.g. Doom with stuff like optional teleport movement and the weapon use redesigned for the hand controllers.
i think it should be obvious that meta will most definitely betray the gaming community they have build in some way as soon as they get the chance to market their newer products to a larger audience. I have been an active VR Enthusiasts since 2016 when the original oculus rift was released and decades before that dreamed about what we already have today, but Facebook/Meta have proven they will kill a product if it significantly deviates from their goal or doesn't get enough engagement anymore. I think its important that by the time Meta decides to pivot to a more general market of computing in VR in general that the gaming sector of VR is large enough that other companies will keep developing for those newer hardware products so that even if Meta abandons their older tech or virtual platforms there are other games and VR places that will be much more long lasting. Future Quests will hopefully go the same way the computer went, which wasn't created for gaming but can be used for gaming, That way the Hardware will become way more versatile while still offering the gaming experiences a lot of people want and hope Meta will just leave the gaming sector of their company as is, while the overall hardware products grow into more sectors and use cases. that way the future of VR devices in general will also be more secure. As far as VR has come even now if for some reason VR gaming would become useless or no one wants to develop games for VR anymore the entire industry would die, we need to be in a place that even if the entire gaming sector experiences a down turn the VR sector keeps growing significantly when that time comes we can be sure that 3rd party companies will keep developing for the VR gaming sector even in those times.
VR games need to start being available on all platforms. I'm not spending money on both a Quest and PSVR even though PSVR has a decent amount of interesting games. I get why exclusives exist - but VR is far too niche still for exclusives to be the gamble. I want RE4RVR, Synapse, and RE7VR - not spending for that though
YoOoOoOO, can we revisit the v72 Quest os failure? I know this was reported as initially an issue with old Quest 2's that haven't been run in a while. But I have (had) a Quest 3 that I had used on Sunday, and when trying to use it Monday I found it bricked on the black screen of death. Luckily it's still under factory warranty and I shipped it to Meta yesterday and I'm waiting on a replacement. But after hanging out in forums all day Tuesday trying to sort of what to do it's obvious this was a HUGE software issue with it bricking all generations of headsets. What happened here?
Bravo, I am also excited for VR in 2025. I know it is possible to complain about everything we want and don't have, but seriously I rarely hear from PC gamers, that they are satisfied with their PC build or the games that play on them, there is always another graphics card on the horizon and there is always a new release of something coming out. Wanting more is part of being human. Just don't let it get in the way of enjoying the now. I have more games and things I can do in VR than I have time or energy for. There are a bunch of games on my wishlist that I just haven't had time to get and play. The current generation of Q3 is an amazing sweet spot of an all-around device. I do not need or want a q4 anytime soon. Happy to enjoy what I have now.
Honestly, I‘m not happy with the state of vr. The best experience I have at the moment, is to stream games from my ps5 pro to my vision pro in a huge immersive view. I have also lot of vr headsets, but my motivation to play a vr game is rather low at the moment. The quest visual quality is getting better, but next year the nvidia 50-series gpus will be released and mobile vr games will still look very poor as flat games look better and better.
Well before I got my first VR headset I built a PC with a 2080 card because that was supposed to be what would be needed to handle VR. I figured it would be a long time before stand-alone devices could match the then-available PC graphics capabilities because of the power requirements. Fast forward to today. I still think my assessment was correct, but for the first time I am seriously considering buying the Quest 3 versions of games even if they are available on PC just for the convenience factor. PCVR is still relevant both because of the VR library I have accumulated but also because of UEVR which allows me to play games in VR that will never see an official VR port. The Deckard may reinvigorate PCVR gaming for me but right now I expect it will be too expensive for me to pick it up day 1. Contrary to the Quest and PCVR scenes, I feel very burnt by PSVR. I'm keeping my PSVR but I'm very reluctant to buy any future PSVR versions of games.
2 дня назад
U burnt out from them just rehashing unnecessary hardware...HMD hardware is at a good place...its pure greed thats ruining VR...I am so glad to see AndroidXR anouced as i been waiting since 2018 for it to be anounced...now we have a real accessible option apart from Meta...
2 дня назад
Id invest in that PC converter box for PSVR2 if i were u...or an AndroidXR HMD...unless u want to go with META...
Well I don’t agree with you saying sat in front of a pc with a headset Well having vr with cyberpunk and the depth is so immersive I cannot play flat screen games anymore as they feel so disconnected and just don’t play them Unless I can mod them into vr All hail Luke Ross mod and unreal vr injector
Could you please recommend a good charging dock that comes with rechargeable batteries for the controllers? I don't want to keep buying batteries all the time 😅
I wonder if this "average age" is due to the fact that the 12-year-olds didn't have $500 so their parent bought it for their child and registered the device in their name so they could control the credit card purchasing of games?!?!?!?!? I say this as an adult who doesn't use Horizon worlds because of the rampant 12-year-olds that infest that domain!
@ no I think it has to do with the registered accounts. And if you register an account I your name as a parent for your 12 year-old play that account will get banned because of age restricted content . I see it happen all the time in the Quest groups on FB.
@@steffendetrick Parents buying a Quest for their kids are not concerned about the rules when it comes to what or how their children play. They're not simply handing over a $500 device to their 12-year-old without setting up the device themselves. Any they're not reading over all the rules.
Metro VR is the perfect example of trying to make a flatscreen game into a VR game. Mad boring and hella u skippable cutscenes and dialogue about things I absolutely do not care about. Constant narration and hand holding as well. The whole marvel quips and narration in gaming is so annoying. Arizona sunshine 2 did this so poorly.
If HoYo shows the industry the way forward with a Genshin VR port (which they have talked about), then gacha games will take over. Nothing would be more appealing than collecting characters that you can actually BE. That will bring lots more players in the VR space to begin playing other games.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
How are you feeling about the Future of VR?
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Standalone wireless games are great for casual games, social experiences, and fitness apps. Wireless games that aim to be full single player console like experiences have improved but still have a ways to go. Asgards Wrath 2, Batman, Assassins Creed, Metro, they've raised the bar, but they still arent on the level of a good pcvr port like skyrim, subnautica, no mans sky, or half life 2. I think VR ports are the future (at least for gaming) as they're subsidized by flatscreen version sales, and they have the graphics, robust gameplay, and lots of content. But we need to bridge the gap between affordable and easy to use wireless, and expensive and complicated pcvr.
I think in time, x86 will be able to emulated at the same parity as Proton (Steam Deck for example) and have enough juice to run something like SkyrimVR on low/med on the headset. I'm really excited for that future since the 5090/5080 price rumors.
Id say AA is the beacon of quality not AAA anymore with trash like concord like dragon age the vailguard ect the list goes on especially with AAA western pushing 🤡DEI🤡 agenda BUT NOT JUST THAT AAA has stagnatet and refuses to take Risk and continues to copy paste games like assasins creed as a prime example
On the other hand i expect many great games from asia aswell as eastern europe very based devs wukong and stellar blade was great i cant wait for the next wukong game
Eastern devs dont push woke DEI
For vr AAA lack of willingness to take risk could be very detrimental to vr look at hitmqn for example how many games IOI has screwed up by taking it far to safe
Definitely glad I found your channel the other night. Thanks for another informative video. Happy new year!
VR games are still just demos besides a handful of them.
All I can do is share my subjective experience. I've been doing VR since the Oculus DK days. I have noticed on steam, in the discussion boards for almost every game with a FPS perspective, people asking for a VR version with many people chiming in for it. Just a few years ago, it was rare to even see a single person asking for it.
It's catching. It's catching slowly, but it's catching.
VR has to be the future. There's only so much you can do with a gamepad and a flat screen. VR is still young and we already have many experiences only possible in VR.
@@blastofoflatscreen already been tapped for a couple gens now.
@@blastofo But you can do a lot with gamepad based VR too. But flat screen is too boring.
And it'll be so funny that thanks to that Unreal tool, the ACTUALLY best vr experiences make exactly 0 dollar to the companies who made the original game.
I don’t think Meta will abandon gaming because that’s their greatest weapon against visionOS and android XR. The fact that they have a huge gaming library and the others have nothing.
If nobody is interested in vr gaming thats a weak weapon. Batman arkham shadow has like 300.000 players so far according to trophies despite being given away for free and being their biggest game yet. 300.000 people is totally irrelevant for mass market adoption
@ give it time . Vr is getting bigger every year
Companies need to make money. If meta is not able to turn vr gaming to a profitable business, they will spend less money for it. I don‘t think they will completly shut it down, but it will hurt.
@@coolertuepwrong it s way more idiot
It's a pity so many of you fall for zuckerburg. He cannot be trusted. He'll pull the rug out from under you when you least expect it. I've seen him do what he wants when he feels like it contract to the public be damned. I do NOt trust him.
I hope Meta annouce a new Standalone banger soon, we had Assassins Creed Nexus VR and Asgards Wrath 2 in 2023 and Batman Arkham Shadow in 2024
Quest exclusives are the best VR games
💯
I think A Superman game in VR would be awesome.
@@Giants83 i can't imagine flying like superman. So cool
twisted pixel and armature are both working on something
@@duoduos9221 And they've been cooking for a while now, so it's definitely not just a tiny little thing. They're making something substantial.
Got my Quest 3 a month ago. It is far ahead of my old WMR headset, much better image, more comfortabe and no wires. Playing PC VR games wireless via Wifi is a great experience and so is just playing standalone games on this headset. I think we are still in the beginning stage of VR gaming but we are making great progress. The Quest 3 has great tech at a great price point with just a few issues left that need to be adressed.
You have quest game optimizer yet? It’s on holiday sale and pretty much mandatory to install and use in my opinion. For $6 the quality of experience improvement across hundreds of apps makes it very worthwhile.
I gotta check that out@@StarScreamReee
Hey Metteo, not to argue but meta got Batman... PSVR2 got the polished version of Behemoth, Metro, Alien, and soon (counting no delays, well see) Hitman. Im just curious why you think PS is dealing with thier headset poorly. I love thier headset.
you better not argue and NEVER speak up to power. Know your place and stay quiet
@BigSunn0 shutting up... lol
he's sold out is why. He like being "in the know" and you only get that by selling out to them so ya. lol there is that.
@gordontechreviews i dont believe he is, but i will admit it does come off that way a little. Too much favoritism to any product online has a tendancy to vibe that way.
I still only buy PCVR games and play them on my Quest 3. That way, if I do decide to change HMDs in the future, I can without losing all of my games.
I used to do that too, but there’s a pretty good number of steam VR games now but just simply don’t work. The developers don’t maintain them for example sprint vector. Every time I launch the game, it just goes back to the main menu on Steam.
I started with that mindset. Long since stopped.
Mostly I can't be bothered to turn on the pc lol.
I have a rock solid VD setup, so it's not that.
Ultimately if I shifted, anything I've brought native on Quest, and also exists on Steam, you can pick up for pennies retrospectively
Another issue with pcvr only... The Quest headsets are great to take on holiday with you, in standalone mode
@growtocycle6992 Yeah, an option I guess, but if I'm on holiday it's hopefully the last thing I'm doing or considering doing lol.
However, the innate portable nature is great for family / friends gatherings, with a chrome cast or similar, to give ppl a taster etc
@@growtocycle6992 PCVR(SteamVR) will also get standalone in the future.
The new Valve VR Headset is rumored to be a hybrid device running on the SteamOS.
Hybrid meaning you can play it on standalone and via cable.
Batman was the game that made me feel like I didn't need a PS5 to power VR.
I've noticed lately that playing flatcscreen games that I get bored faster and just jump back over to my VR headset for the immersion.
I was barely a "casual" gamer, but I sure do like VR! I guess it's just because of the standing and moving around.
I have a hard time with flat screen now. I have for years. I still love good flat games, but there's nothing like vr.
Same. It's rare I find myself in from my monitor
Thanks for another great and thoughtful video...! I'm 53, and growing up, I was always super excited about VR technology, but it wasn't there for many years. I bought the Quest 2 on release to experience Microsoft Fight Simulator, but I thought I'll just give Skyrim VR ago first AND OMG with a few mods I was AMAZED. I must have spent 2000hrs in there. Obviously, VR is super demanding, so I learned to squeeze every last frame and every last pixel of resolution out of my RTX 2060. Eventually, I gave the trusty 2060 to my son and bought the mighty 4090 and a Q3 with a loan. So now I'm playing Cyberpunk 2077 and MSFS and ABSOLUTELY loving it. Looking at a game on a monitor is archaic compared to being in a world and appreciating every little detail the devs spent hours creating. The VR industry is only moving slowly because the big profits are not there for them yet. All I can say is that they will be and thank God for big companies like Meta, who are driving the industry forward at a financial loss. ALL THE BEST AND HAPPY NEW YEAR....!
Meta isn't driving the market forward. They are doing the opposite. Their interest is control over the VR store. Valve is one of the most profitable companies in the world thanks to Steam. Meta wants the same for VR, and they will kill PCVR to do it.
AndroidXR...#Android6dofVR #OGQuest #Googlecardboard
@@a5centThat's a very foolish sentiment.
I honestly can't see how without the Quest line of headsets, VR would still be a think.
Pcvr has been effectively dead for 2+ years.
Vr games are mostly developed for standalone and ported to pc, not the otherwsy around like a few years ago
@@stuartburns8657
Nah. The point just went over your head. You seem to be primarily interested in VR, no matter its form, or whose walled garden surrounds it.
In contrast, I don't think VR is worth saving at all costs. If Nintendo-VR, controlled by a single company, is all that remains, I'd prefer it just went away.
VR can only succeed with a large user base. Meta is only addressing the cost side of the problem by TEMPORARILY selling VR headsets at or below cost (which pushes others out of the market). The software however is a joke. Both problems need to be addressed and Meta is purposefully making it more difficult to achieve advancement on the software side.
@@a5cent Alit of accurate points there.
Yes Meta is having to heavily subsidise VR, both hardware and the occasional 'big' game.
Numbers are required yes, hense the above.
Where do you feel VR would have been if Meta hadn't taken over Oculus?
£500 (and often much more) with the mess of tethered headsets and expensive PC's?
Yes I'm a fan of VR in general.
I like the Japanese saying: "The rising tide lifts all boats"
I agree 2025-27 will be the telling years from Meta's perspective.
We've already seen that they've had to introduce the Q3S at £300, thus seems to be the price sweet spot and entry point for the masses.
As a father of 2, I find it easier to fire up the Quest than mess about with my more than adequate pc for VR as I mentioned (I think)
With several friends, I'm not alone in almost totally having abandoned flat screen gaming.
The only exceptions are when I mess about on the kids switch with the odd indie game lol
Hot take: VR is constantly improving and innovating, while flatscreen gaming has been rehashing the same BS for years with a new coat of paint.
Yup and with UEVR I can play my old flat games again since there's nothing new with flat screen but in VR it's new again.
Your point about the PSVR2 seems to be that you dont think Sony will make much money off it. But as a consumer, why would I care about that?
They are still actively supporting it, proven by the fact they've partnered with Apple for hand tracking.
As an owner of both a Quest 3 and the PSVR2, the PSVR2 has given me the better experience.
This last year was amazing for VR. I don't think we are getting crapped on with Meta because there is no other choice. You want to TRUST another company to deliver a great headset by spending your $ on them? We are getting crapped on by these other companies honestly.
Zuck has already once crapped on gamers, but he's fine now cos it wasn't personally you? Your faith is misplaced.
@MartinOReilly-mb4um Are you talking about Echo? I feel bad for those gamers. Also for the developers that try to get games onto their store. I'm not going to hold a grudge tho. Companies don't make the best decisions all the time. Where would VR be without Meta? Where should I place my faith? HTC, Pimax, Samsung, Sony, Pico,Apple,Valve?
My thoughts are the Quest 3 & 3S are the first XR headsets that really are ready for proper mainstream appeal.
Having good Mixed Reality can’t be overstated, because MR experience (especially multiplayer ones like Demeo) are sooooooooooo much easier for noobs to lean and enjoy.
The hardest thing with the Quest 2 was trying to teach someone how to use it.
i just got the quest 3s the mixed reality is great fun
So far, I've seen a ton of people personally who never had any interest in VR, including myself jump in with the Quest 3 and 3S. So from my personal experience it definitely seems to me getting more mainstream appeal and I think Batman has been a huge selling point.
I got on board after seeing the graphics in Batman and the game length and so did a lot of people I know, till now we wrote VR off as short games/tech demo's. Then after seeing all the ads and some videos of Batman and finally taking the jump and getting a 3 I finally realise I've been missing out on a ton.
Right now I'm playing Metro and having a blast, sure it might not be skyrocketing to everyone just yet but I really feel like it's starting to pop onto more people's radar who like me made assumptions
The only reason "the gap is closing" between PCVR and Queest is because developers are hitting mobile hardware targets as that is where the install base is. Games that push PC hardware are still drastically more impressive. The comparison of Asgards Wrath 1 and 2 graphical fidelity alone tells the picture as far as power. I have a Quest 3 and enjoy it but it still feels like an entry-point to VR rather than the final destination.
When talking about how the gap is closing, it's not really purely about graphical fidelity. When the first Quest headset launched the most "complex" game design for standalone at the time was something like Journey of the Gods. This was nearly 2 whole years after Lone Echo, and a few months before Asgard's Wrath, and the game practically looks like Jumping Flash in comparison to those. Even a faithful port of a PS2/GameCube era title like Resident Evil 4 was a pipedream for standalone at the time. There is notably less of a gap between titles like Arkham Shadow, Asgard's Wrath II, Assassin's Creed Nexus, Behemoth and Metro Awake not only graphically but also in terms of game scope and complexity than there was in the earlier years. It's not too different from how mobile phone gaming (circa iPhone 3GS) had comparatively extremely simple and basic flagship titles like Fruit Ninja or Temple Run, and now even though in terms of raw specs there's still a huge gulf, it's a lot narrower in terms of the overall game complexity with consoles and PC when titles like Fortnite, Genshin Impact or even Resident Evil Village are fully playable on mobile devices too.
There's an element of diminishing returns as base level specs increase. There's not a lot of games available for PS5 for example that couldn't have been reasonably approximated on PS4 (which is why there have been so many cross-generation titles compared to previous generations), whereas the jump between PS1 to PS2 was massive and the majority of PS2 titles even at launch would have had no hope of seeing a reasonable PS1 version. Quest 3 is starting to hit around the PS3/360 level of game complexity (and graphics), and we're probably a standalone headset generation or two away from PS4 level. At this point we've reached already, game budgets are starting to become more of a limiting factor than the actual power of the headset, which is why there's few dedicated PCVR titles that are even competitive with the scope of the likes of Assassin's Creed Nexus or Arkham Shadow. Nobody's putting Cyberpunk 2077 money into a VR game no matter how powerful the headsets get. The overall VR audience isn't there for that, not simply the ratio between standalone vs console/PC. That a 2019 PCVR title still practically stands alone on that side going into 2025 speaks volumes.
The gap is also closing because PCVR has completely stagnated for a long-ass time. No devs are making games that are too big and complex to run on a Quest... So the PCVR games we get are Quest-tier complexity (which can be quite complex) with higher res textures and better lighting. The graphics is really the entire difference these days.
For people who don't do simulators there hasn't been much new on PCVR in the last 5 years. Even if you do like sims, not much has come out because the simulator genre has also been really slow for a long time. It's not like the 90s when we got 3-5 new flight sims every year.
Not going to lie the state of psvr2 right now is better then I ever imagined. So many new games and hand tracking coming soon makes me excited for the future of psvr2. Goodbye meta
I have a Quest 3 and PSVR2. I can't stand the cable on PSVR2
@@simonoregan4744it’s the first vr I have owned, and it’s not that bad you get used to it being there and the oled screens make the games pop fr, tho I haven’t tried quest 3 only 2
For me, a big multiplayer gamer, the fact that VR games are full of kids is what stops me from playing most games besides for single player games.
I dunno I would argue gameplay mechanics are generally more interesting in VR then Flat Screen gaming. There has been hardly any real leaps in gameplay mechanics in flatscreen gaming for 12-15 years (more so in the AA and AAA space) and I would argue we have seen so much of those mechanics stripped down over time. We somehow have worse enemy ai and physics in flatscreen gaming compared to what we were seeing in the PS3/360 era.
Amen! I simply couldn't agree more. It is my hope that with today's AI technology, this will improve in the near future in some aspect you pointed out!
Couldn't agree more! I am currently playing Sleeping Dogs: The Definitive Edition and just amazed on how better the gameplay and world feel than a lot of modern games. I also find Batman Arkham Shadow a lot more immersive than most flat games.
Im happy pcvr is not where the main focus is for vr anymore because most people don't have 1-2k for a gaming pc plus 1k for a vr... With meta for example we are having so many sales that its actually finally making vr accessible and mainstream and so more and more studios are interested to make new games or even headsets
you don't even need that much for VR unless you're trying to play everything on "ultra" settings. I started off PCVR during COVID with a PC I built over a decade ago that had an AMD FX-8350 & 16GB of RAM. I went & bought an RTX-3060 to replace the RX580 I had, which at the time cost me about $400 new. took me about a year to get used to VR & I wanted to dive in deeper after learning more about mods (mainly Praydog's RE mod, Alyx mods & Skyrim VR) before I wound up going & dropping $2300 to build myself a new PC in 2022. the only reason it was even THAT much is because I built it myself instead of buying a pre-built & I bought an RTX-3080 Ti brand new.
I didn't HAVE to build such a high-end PC (for instance, I have 96GB of RAM because I also run VMs for other things) & I know that because I just built a PCVR capable PC for someone for around $600 as they already had a Quest 2. PCVR is very accessible on a budget. the most you'll really find yourself spending is on a GPU & even those are cheap enough on the used market.
@2007hype i spend 350 for a 3s and nothing else. What you are saying is not really budget friendly. You are saying that i need to pay at least a thousand to play pcvr and you think that it is accessible for people?
Cutscenes in half Lyfe Alyx are not boring. I think watching Kratos going ham on an enemy in VR would be sweet.
What's not... Slow, tedious, low fidelity (pixelated) tutorials
There is so much potential for VR in my opinion, devs just need to think outside of the box and create more gamrs that require you to actually interact with the objects and environments in a game. We already have plenty of shooters and hack n slash games. It's time for something new. I personally want to see a monster catching game like pokemon in VR.
Whew! I think VR is fantastic and only just beginning. It should totally have a marketing plan towards seniors. My great wish is for physical drum and guitar controllers-- and even trombone for that game that seems to be getting good reviews-- and such for music and rhythm games.
You could probably use a collapsible selfie stick for Trombone Champ.
73 years old and getting a quest 3 tomorrow. My very limited knowledge has already got me so excited!
My biggest problem with vr over the years has been that the majority of games have been of the cartoony variety and seemed aimed at kids. I guess hardware issues in the beginning for stand alone has been the reason, after all vr studios are going to target the biggest audience which is still Meta and so the rest of the market suffers from the lowest common denominator. But this has been changing as of late with games like Metro, Batman, Bohemeth, Into the Radius, etc. I am really hopeful for Aces of Thunder because it's the kind of thing that will drive more people into vr on an adult mainstream level. You can still have those kiddie type games but those do very little to appeal to most adult gamers. I think vr is finally on the right track and will appeal to more people over time. I have had friends who I've put into the headset with easy to pick up games, more on the kiddie side of things and most have said it's fun but won't move them into buying one. But then put them into GT7 and the opinions change drastically. One even went out and bought one after where others say they need more games like it before they'll buy one. So it's the realistic feeling games that will drive vr to become more mainstream
I mean, most games are still built around the Quest 2. More and more bigger modern VR titles are going away from cartoony. There is nothing wrong with stylization if the graphical fidelity is good though. Also keep in mind d that most VR games are made by indie studios.
I think one aspect of hope for PCVR that was missed in the video... the creation of mods to existing good flat games to make them VR games. I for one have had the game "outer wilds" in my steam library for a long time but never got around to playing it. Now, a mod exist that allows me to play it on my Quest 3 and even though the game came out in 2019... it's probably one of the best VR games I have ever played. After I finish that game, I will probably look for more VR modded games to play... maybe even Cyberpunk 2077.
and Elden Ring
Couple things. 1. UE5/VRmods have come a long long way over the last year 2. The 5000 series will allow a lot of people to refresh their hardware to bring it up to spec for VR mods and original VR content. I think we're already seeing a VRmod revolution, but with the new cards hitting and a lot of community projects hitting for better controls etc. that we're going to see a bit of a revolution in the PCVR space.
Still in its infancy stage. I have hope
That's a long infancy though. 12 years since oculus 1.
i can imagine in 10 years that VR will be new standard while flat screen is optional like PC vs console nowadays, since in the early days video games is always about engaging player with "other worlds", what is more engaging, than being in that virtual world itself inside VR
If i were an investor who knew nothing about vr, the lack of growth since the quest 3 would be very worrying trend. Meta really needs to knock it out of the park for the quest 4. It needs to be a tangible, must have upgrade. The hype outside of the vr community also seems to have died down in the last year or 2. Meta needs to find a way to reignite it. TOTF 2 was the only thing i noticed that created some hype and excitement outside of vr. Definitely a system seller. It has so much potential with the combat sports and fitness community.
I think we need more on the software side, not the hardware side. The Nintendo Switch is a huge success because of the games. Hardware is only a means to use software. With that said, I think the Quest should include a better headstrap with good weight balance, as that will help a lot with retention.
Big picture...AndroidXR is the one to watch...i been saying it since OG Quest...#Android6dofVR...Android is the secret sauce that ppl are refusing to acknowledge...Quest has beyond a doubt proven Android is the best VR OS. AndroidXR is stock Android for VR...if u dont understand the implications of that...u prolly still dont understand why the Quest is everywhere...
@@blastofo I agree, but the reason the switch has so many great games is because so many people have it that it is lucrative to sell games for it so it's a bit of both, good hardware and a couple system seller games.
In my opinion, PCVR should be considered like a PC. Although consoles exists, it never quite took over the PC market and there are games coming out constantly using the PC hardware. Consoles are good, but you aren’t going to find groundbreaking experiences with them that are next generation. I think that Meta and PCVR can live in the same market but developers need to step out of the Meta Market and make quality experiences that Meta will catch up to. Stand-alone will eventually be as good as PCVR now so games which limit themselves to Meta’s current technology are only hurting themselves for the long run.
It's simple, it is too expensive to develop for it. It is already a VERY niche market, and if you start developing graphically enhanced experiences with more complex systems, it will become even more expensive and will also reach an even smaller target audience, that cannot afford strong computers to handle it.
Think of this with a business perspective:
"Is it really worth it to spend a lot of money and resources to develop something that will reach less than 10% of the entire market?"
The question answers itself.
@ VR needs to grow for my thoughts to even be viable. We are currently in a strange phase for VR where we need the innovation to grow the market but there is no reward currently for said innovations. Meta was an innovation, especially the Quest headsets, but there has been no real innovation since. Meta lost 11 billion dollars in VR but they grew the market immensely - however the loss shows the sacrifices companies must make to make VR a possible and accessible market. The Deckard might be a successful headset and that will boom the VR industry, maybe making PCVR games possible to stand-alone customers. Then again, Valve is obviously ready to make a loss so that VR can grow
The best VR games are Standalone exclusives
You notice that games like Batman and Asgards Wrath are more polished than the multiplatform games
It's much more simple for devs to develop, since you need to only test for a single hardware and a single headset
@@ZFCaio Agreed, but you are also forgetting games like Into the Radius and Vertigo 1 & 2. They are both (in my opinion) better than any game on standalone. Arkham Shadows is an excellent game but the fact that it’s on stand-alone shows. I personally prefer a more ‘Into the Radius’ approach where you lose features and graphics to make the overall game better. With this, we push what is possible for VR and get better, stronger games for both PCVR and Stand-alone players (also the best VR game is PCVR: Half Life: Alyx)
"The best VR games are Standalone exclusives"
That is factually false.
The only case could be Arkham Shadow.
But then, most of the titles are in both platforms if not on PC only.
Only out of my memory I can think of
Metro Awakening
Alien rouge incursion
Alyx, while old, still relevant.
Then you have games like into the radius that was pc first then quest.
So I just showed my almost 90 year old aunt a 3d movie in bigscreen and an immersive 180 vid on my quest 3 and she was in awe.... we are definitely in a great place w vr and excited for this year. 🔥🔥😁✌️
PCVR isn't the solution. Most people can't afford a 2000k gaming PC and a 500k VR headset. Standing alone is the way it is more user-friendly and cheaper to get into. Quest just needs to invest in more AAA games to spark invest for gamers to jump in.
@@metroidprime3863 exactly
i got 3s as treat for myself as bought house got 6 weeks renovations. got it tax free switzerland got batman 3 months of plus and via yt code 60 francs of credits. Got loads games in the sale. and might not be greatest but for that price and all the games i got its amazing.
Most newer releases on Meta are stand alone only but somehow Meta has still been adding new PCVR games to their Rift store. They've added
-Metro Awakening
-Sydance's Behemoth
-Contractors Showdown EXFILZONE
-Arizona Sunshine 2
-Arizona Sunshine Remake
-Hubris
These are more recent releases that are currently in Meta's PCVR store.
How come Meta is still adding these PCVR games?
Maybe they then get a cut of the sales?
@@stuartburns8657 I was wondering the same thing. A fact is that they don't seem to put any of their exclusives on PCVR perhaps because they want to use the exclusives to sell their stand-alone headsets.
@@emekaadibe5553 Maybe yes.
Difficult to 2nd guess their reasoning
When it comes to discussing why VR / AR isn't catching on as quickly as we all would like, you totally ignored the elephant in the room on this one. VR motion sickness is the "feature" that turns off the first timer who try VR at a family members house without the proper preparation. Getting sick on your first experience (which many do) turns them off on VR and they may never try it again, thus never WANTING to build up their "VR legs".
I don't know how much technology plays a part in preventing VR motion sickness, but acknowledging that it exists and can be a MAJOR DOWNER for first time experiences, along with some PR explaining how to properly expose your first-time family member to that which you are exited to, would be helpful.
Great Video. See you next year.
I had both Quest 2 and psvr over the years but I gave up on vr until the headsets get alot lighter and smaller, more like a pair of glasses. See you in around 5-10 years.
orion
For me to get back into vr they need to do some kind of depth/ optics innovation to limit eye strain, and something much lighter, my last headset was the Quest pro, it was small but still heavy. If they can do this while keeping the price under 1500 USD, that would be cool
Gaming has always been a means to and end for VR. VR is not just a gaming platform. They want it to be a new general compute device. Meta wants to be the next Apple and MS. They are a trillion dollar company that can and will continue invest for this future. Gaming was just the easiest way to show off what VR can do as VR has to be experienced, it can't be explained.
Meta will continue to make games as does most hardware manufacturers such as Sony and Microsoft. They will likely market the products less as just a gaming platform tho, which is what we want. We need a larger broader audience. Meta VR is stacking up to be more like the "PC" of VR, offering a device that does so much more than just games. The value that a Quest 3 has over any other VR device is pretty incredible. We can watch media, meet new people, experience MR, work, shop, exercise, and game.
They want to get to the point where you can do everything in it without having to take it off. Once it gets smaller and more ergonomic, VR will become more than just a hobby for kids.
AndroidXR...will be the OS of spacial computing... #Android6dofVR #OGQuest #Googlecardboard #VROS
It might be one or them but Google tried this before and gave up. Google is one of the least trustworthy companies when it comes to putting effort in. They will drop support on a whim. Anyways. I'm talking about Meta and their plans. Not Googles.
Eventually it'll all be incorporated into a pair of lifestyle glasses where you'll be able to do anything, including vr games. 9.6 million vr headsets sold apparently in 2024 so thats an 8% rise year on year. Google, samsung, Apple etc all now involved. Not to mention a rising adoption here and in China of the glasses. We ain't seen nothing yet. I increasingly am "in" my Quest 3 rather than "on" my ps5. I love it:)
Dont under estimate high end VR gaming. PCVR still has approx 3.5 million users on Steam so its still very much a viable market for developers, throw in PSVR2 as well and high end gaming is still in the game, There are more PCVR/PSVR2 players than Quest 3 players by a substantial amount. The Quest 3 hasnt sold like the Quest 2. I agree the Quest 3 is very capable but you need a AAA studio behind a game to bring it close to PCVR standard and how many of those do we have in the entire VR industry?
Quest 3 not selling as much as Quest 2 is actually a negative when it comes to PCVR/PSVR2, because it keeps the lowest common spec being the Quest 2, and so developers remain more inclined to continue to develop for that spec in order to have the largest potential audience to sell to. The comparatively quick death of the original Quest jumped standalone VR gaming forwards more quickly, as the bottom floor was raised sooner.
I'm also not entirely sure that there are far more PCVR + PSVR2 players than Quest 3/3S players at this point. It's important to remember that Quest headsets are also the most popular PCVR headsets too. So of 3.1m (based on Steam hardware survey results of 132m Steam users with 2.4% having VR), almost 600k of those users are on a Quest 3, and around 1.2m of those are on a Quest 2 still. Given the target market for standalone devices doesn't overlap that heavily with people powerful PC rigs, there are going to be far more standalone users than will be reflected on Steam, and Quest headsets already account for 50% of that total.
There isn't really a PCVR standard as of today. The Quest 2 is still the primary target spec, and anything targeting above that is an exception currently. PCVR gets a bit of a leg up when compared with PSVR2 because it benefits from VR modes of a lot of cockpit-based games (racers, MSFS, etc), but outside of that the landscape is basically Quest titles running at higher levels of fidelity, and a handful of exceptions like Vertigo 2, Subside and the like. It would take a pretty big shift (next Valve headset?) back towards PCVR or PSVR2 before the standard for either of those platforms rises above what developers can get to run on a standalone device. Right now the financial incentives just aren't really there for it.
The glory days of PCVR are just beginning for me. I'm about to upgrade from the Quest 3 to the Pimax Crystal Super. I'd rather play AAA games in VR than cartoony tech demos on the Quest store.
Rather harsh and elitist.
If the vr immersion is right I'll play it and enjoy it regardless.
Despite owning a pc capable of pcvr, it's rarely my go to choice.
Pcvr feels like it's been on life support for the last 2+ years.
Even if valve bring out a hla2, it'll only be a brief blip on the heart rate monitor
@ I’ve been playing more and more AAA games in VR lately. The list keeps growing. I spent like 200 hours in cyberpunk VR, and will probably spend another 200 in Avatar Frontiers of Pandora. I think it keeps getting better.
@@djp1234 I refunded Cyberpunk at the beginning, and last I saw, any vr mods for it don't include hand tracking?
Without handtracking, I find it too immersion breaking, using KBM or game controller
@@stuartburns8657 to me, immersion is story, atmosphere & graphics. Hand tracking is not a deal breaker.
Unless you play racing Sims or flight Sims, you’re gonna run out of games pretty quick. There is just as much cartoony garbage on the steam store.
Geez so many comments so ignorant of the actual state of the industry that is sad.
Are you even following Matteo or the tech?
We need to be talking about the lack of optimization in the current batch of PCVR games. Alien: RI runs like a dumpsterfire, makes me glad that I have a PSVR2. Whereas Alyx runs smooth as butter, with everything cranked. Batman is the only Quest 3 exclusive so far, and nicely optimized at that. Arken Age is the outlier here, runs incredibly smoothly on my RTX 4060. Also, VIrtual Desktop + the Puppis SI is magical, on a well optimized game. Speaking of smaller multiplayer pool, it's criminal that Hellsweeper only has 40 players max at any one time. It has crossplay on every platform, and the devs are -still- supporting it! 😍. Arken Age reminds me of Stormlands quite a bit, in terms of the upgradable gear, multiple combat options, and non-human main character.
It’s exciting watching Vr games evolve What a time to be alive ❤
PCVR will continue to suffer because GPU prices are sky-high and NVIDIA has no reason to lower them. If your argument is that PCVR offers the *highest fidelity* then you're going to require a X070, X080, or X090 GPU--and just that single component will cost $600-$2800. Yes, there will be some gamers willing to throw thousands of dollars on their PC AND thousands of dollars on PCVR kit, but it'll never be mainstream. And that's 100% fine--the sim community is the best example of a niche group that will throw thousands of $$$ on PCVR, GPUs, motion rigs, high-end yokes, etc. But your average gamer ain't doing that. And if/when Valve comes out with a new headset, you better believe it will have wireless streaming so PCVR fanboys will need to dial-back trash-talking that tech. Ultimately the old adage "convenience always trumps fidelity" applies to VR just like everything else. Standalone kit is more convenient, more versatile, and establishes VR as a separate tech platform whilst PCVR reduces VR to an accessory and tethers the user to an anchor. Folks can chimp-scream about how PCVR is sooo much better all they like, but consumers have spoken: standalone VR/MR is what the vast majority want and Google, Samsung, Meta, and Apple each have a multi-billion dollar strategy to deliver it. PCVR has Pimax and HTC. How's that workin' out?
Nothing but facts!
this and the fact that Intel dont believe in VR, so they wont update their Arc GPU drives for it to work correctly.
I'm hopeful that Arken Age will deliver and raise the bar for indie VR. We need worlds to explore, free jump, etc. Way too many linear experiences. Also, great video/analysis.
I've been avoiding the Quest HMDs. But my Index died and to be honest the Quest 3 looks like the way to go for the price especially considering I mostly only play rhythm games, sports, or workout games etc.
"The glory days of PCVR are over, and we just have to acknowledge that". Not necessarily. Meta may be the 800 lb gorilla, but Valve is a 100 lb Doberman that we still have yet to hear from. Let's see what they come up with before we play taps for PCVR.
Valve coming out with a new headset isn't doing anything to solve the lack of native PCVR games problem.
@@sonicsnake44 Of course it does. The reason nobody is making native PCVR games is because FAR more people have stand alone headsets. If Valve comes up with something for PCVR that people start buying, PCVR will become a lot more attractive to developers again. It won't happen overnight, and for all I know it won't happen at all. I'm just saying let's wait and see before we sign the death certificate on PCVR.
@@sonicsnake44 You need to keep in mind what Valve is doing right now.
They have SteamOS, their own operating system for their devices, which can also be downloaded onto a PC.
Meaning that Gamers might not be using Windows anymore, but instead the SteamOS, that has Steam pre-installed.
Any VR, console, or PC device running SteamOS will use Steam to access their games aswell.
Companies can so create standalone/pcvr VR headsets that will use the Steam as the Game Libary and as the Operation System
I at the moment only have an psvr2 headset but after i adjusted and no longer have any form of motion sickness anymore, wow do i love it, haven’t played a single flat screen game since.
Soooo immersive.
I play:
Into the radius
No man’s sky
Red matter 2
Behemoth
RE 4 + 8
GT 7
and will be picking up Metro, Arken Age and more in the future.
Love VR and as an 50 year old gamer my child hood fantasy after watching Lawnmower man came to full fruition.
In the future i will invest in PCVR but await the new GPU’s and headsets, no hurry, PSVR2 is great for now!
So happy VR is taking off and really hope for a bright future!
Best
Meta goes in the right direction with the idea of getting a device that reduce the weight dramatically, so, in that sense, I do not see the need of releasing nothing new if it is not orientated to that goal. We have to keep in mind that the current system is restrained (full resolution of the glasses need to be activated by developer modes) , so potencial already there... now just need to focus on weight and, hopefully, on haptic systems too. The visor who offers the lighter possible device should have an advantage, at least, they will have me as client.
While I'm not super optimistic about Sony's support for PSVR 2 these days, I don't think the situation is quite as doom and gloom as you're suggesting. They just showed off hand-tracking demos at a recent industry event, and rolled out a new form of reprojection for the Pro patch of GT7. Why would they be working on this tech if they're just clearing out their inventory? Also, why haven't they made more of the PC VR adapters if that's their plan to clear their stock. The adapter's still sold out most places last I checked.
Do I think they're making more big budget first-party VR games like Horizon CotM? No. But it's clear their R&D department at least isn't done with PSVR 2. I think they still believe VR has a future, so they're using PSVR 2 as a test bed to work on tech like hand-tracking, and third-party devs can use what they produce if they want. They might also add a VR mode to a flat game or two, or sign a deal for a bigger hybrid title here and there (the Hitman WoA announcement wasn't too long ago). Not the level of support I'd hoped for, but I don't think they're disappearing either.
Also they just sold a TON of units with the black friday price drop. I think it might have woken them up a bit.
Sony just doesn't have enough money to fuel VR's growth. Meta does, but they're committed to wireless. Microsoft could potentially make their next console VR capable, and develop a headset, or license Meta's headset, and use their funds and portfolio of developers to create VR modes for many flatscreen games, and do what Sony has failed to do. I think there's a good chance of this happening. Microsoft has taken a stab at nearly every consumer tech market out there. And they can afford multi billion dollar flops since they're a financial juggernaut.
@@blastofo well, until that happens, I'm gonna keep enjoying my psvr2
@@quoththekraven5911 I actually bought a psvr2 and a ps5 just to play it a few days ago. Enjoying RE8, GT7, and will play RE4 remake after. But aside from those games, i'm not sure if there's anything else to play that I can't play on Quest or PCVR. The PSVR2 has some awesome features, but the reprojection, mura, small sweet spot, and quality of the lenses really hurts it. Its also the only VR headset i've used thats given me nausea, but i've overcome that.
@blastofo all fair points. Gt7 is wild, the REs are great. I haven't owned or tried any other headsets so I can't say anything one way or another. Maybe one day, who knows. If Sony kills PSVR then I'll have to grab something else.
The kiddy free Meta VR games have like 10k-25k reviews, when that demographic grows up, VR is gonna explode again 😳
kiddies quickly turn into 20 year olds.
Im waiting for Valve to drop the Deckard... That's going to change the game for VR! Can't wait!!
Forgot to mention mad motion sickness, played batman for 20 min ended up in bed for a day with nausea
@@raulito388 I've covered motion sickness many times. It wasn't a topic for this video.
Been looking at VR for a few years. Just made the plunge and got a Quest. Cant wait for it to come in take it for a spin !
What would be a must play ?
I appreciate your "state of the union" here for VR, but I was surprised you did not touch on the one mystery item I am holding out hope for. I am still in the PCVR camp and I don't mind that the games I play the most are older titles... they are also titles I will be able to sink more hours in than I could ever reasonably do - things like X:Rebith VR, No Man's Sky and Elite Dangerous (Yes, I love the Space Sim more than any other genre - and hope Star Citizen gets VR support one day). But the big wildcard to me is the Deckard. There are a couple tidbits in the leaks that entertain the idea of an incorporated ReShade or something similar. And if I am honest, if the one thing it does really well is enable a gamer to play a flat screen game in 3D (not even immersive VR), then it will change everything for gaming. If it also enables players to play a 3D game in a VR head tracking mode (think Cyberpunk 2077 without Luke Ross's mod) with Steam Deck controls - and I can see how that could be possible (especially for any first person game that uses a mouse look system)
I know, that is all full on speculation and not really the state of VR today, but with the success of what the Steam Deck does well, and the fact Valve is tying Deckard to that... I am really excited for whatever does come out. Personally, while I can see what the other companies are aiming for, Valve and Steam are a game store and their focus is to enable you to play the games you have in your Steam library and for you to buy more games. If they can deliver a product that has Steam Deck impact that is also VR capable and compatible, then we are looking at another revolution in PC gaming and not just VR gaming. I am hoping that day does come in 2025... and in the mean time I do have the Quest 3... which is a pretty amazing headset in itself.
I feel like flatscreen consoles are reaching to that endpoint that they will no longer be able to upgrade to anything much better than what it already is now the release of cod 6 kinda proves this because when they added the crazy movement thinking it was going to bring a new age to something it actually backfire and a lot of people completely disengaged from call of duty, the ps5 came out and all they did was just 🆙 the picture rate, kind feels like the iPhone trend going on. personally, for this reason is why I will always invest in VR instead of consuls now being a OG PS4 and Xbox player.
my quest encouraged me to get a good gaming pc for vr and i'm definitely finding that they are not making games to the same quality as i was expecting which is of course quite disappointing. but the big thing is gaming in general is on the down slope. everything is multiplayer and loot box or has a million screaming kids. i still would have loved to experience that anthem 2.0 they were working on but the micro transactions weren't making enough for ea.
i think most people can agree that graphics aren't an issue if the gameplay is fun and there is enjoyable writing, writing that does not FORCE political, social, or moral beliefs on the consumer. I absolutely want people to put that stuff in their games and stories, but obviously it is not going to sell well if it alienates entire audiences.
the tutorial of the Oculus quest was one of my favorite graphical sequences i've seen in the entire quest lifetime, i'm still waiting for someone to use that simple style in a game.
PCVR will never be dead. The group you find most in the PCVR space are adults interested in simulator experiencences, who are willing to pay more money for higher end graphics. You were comparing Pimax to 3S like the only difference is weight, come on now. Standalone will never be able to accommodate motion sims and 15 peripheral USB cockpit panels. But to fire up Walkabout Mini Golf or play some popular shooter game, the days of PCVR are over.
well yes, XR is big... but yout totallly missed out VR cloud gaming. This is huge. You dont need a pc, just your quest headset... thats the main future in gaming for me to overcome the restricts of a headset computing power
How is PCVR dead when i can link my quest 3 with a cable??
Gloves, mark my words, whoever cracks gloves in an easy to use easier to acquire, great experience! Will jumpstart the enthusiasm and keep it.
What is the game, at 3:20, where the character is running on the side of the mountain? Looks cool!
Jusant! It is a chill short game about climbing.
1:55 ... What I don't understand is why more developers can't ship two versions of their game that actually looks dramatically different. Take Contractor's Showdown... Yes, the PCVR version looks better but does it look HL:Alyx better? NO! Why don't we see increased polygon counts, dramatically higher texture resolutions, better lighting, etc? Would love for an experienced dev to give their honest take here because it feels like when we DO get PCVR games they're often just ports of Quest first games, so the graphics are not as good as one would hope.
Because that requires time and money to do
Time and money, the 2 platforms are worlds apart and are completely different work flows. I'm a pcvr dev and to add quest version would take another year, and more relevantly, if I was a quest dev it would still take like half a year for a proper pc version
HL:A had one thing that people didn’t notice.
Really small tunneled levels.
It’s one part of the vr triangle
Small levels, bad textures, repetitive gameplay.
It’s easy to have a big level, that’s mostly empty, with low textures, where the systems are… basic…?
@@JD-od6tw can i ask could older games like titanfall and evolve be made into VR supported games? I really feel these two games would make great VR games and they are IPs that already exist.
@@tattoodrdokeWith UEVR and/or VorpX...there is prolly already a mod that exists for it...
I never understood the hate for squeakers. As far as how they affect my gaming experience, they're just like adults (with equal proportions of cool vs toxic players) except their voices are higher pitch.
As much as I love VR, it needs to grow up a bit.
Most games are always lacking.
It’s either levels are small, graphics are super basic, or its features and controls are very basic (including gameplay)
We need hardware to move forward so we don’t stagnate.
The games we have today that people rave about always fall flat to most PC vr games.
It saddened me when people were comparing metro to Alyx. As if they were even on the same plane.
Small levels should mean great gameplay at the least, never mind poor interactivity.
I also think that reviewers are to blame because every new game (it seem) is “the next half life Alyx” lol
Not sure if they’re shilling or if they truly believe that, but either way it’s disappointing that mediocre games are getting such high ratings/reviews.
I’d say I use my quest 3 as 90% PCVR headset. And the market for games seems to be flooded with wave shooters or just basic interactivity.
We are at like a 7 year old, for vr games. Some things are neat, but it’s just the same weird stuff over and over.
How is it that each Matteo video has a neener neener somewhere near the end? Spill the beans man 👀👀👀
And yes, I did use the same account. They did ask that I only have one account and when I bought my new headset, my phone paired up immediately that the first one didn’t do my tablet paired up immediately that the first one didn’t do the visual was outstanding compared to the first one and it kept having like little blackouts which the new one is not doing🤷♀️
Thanks again for all this advice on your channel 🙏
They need to keep the kids in the kid section, have come across a lot of older men talking to kids and it just creeps me out !
Agree to disagree with you there. The ONLY reason I bought my Quest3 is to play PC flight sims. I have no interest whatsoever in playing stand alone VR games
Yessir. I default to PC first, stand alone second... If its a AAA (Metro) it's a PC purchase.
Fully disagree on this, the only reason he is standing is cause standalone vr games
Whats the difference between AR and MR?
i think if they can get the mindset for people to have games where they just sit down like you normally would playing a game, and used the headset as a massive screen and to have the ability to move ur head around in the environment.. This would be a good step. It's way more immersive than even a massive tv or the largest ultrawide you can find.. but you dont have to deal with the clunky joy sticks and the cliche VR tech gameplay. There are loads of mods to do this, like in skyrim, or cyberpunk and they always get prasied.. yet they are still so focused on making one trick pony vr games with some crappy hand movement and 2 hour battery life max. At least sitting down, you can plug into your pc, use its gpu, and not worry about battery life.
I was thinking this for a while. There is even a RUclips video you can view of Hellish Quart in 3D and it drastically ups the immersion. You play it exactly as a flat-screen game but the depth brings it to life.
@@Drstrange3000 yeah agreed, the immersion factor is the main thing for me with vr rn. Until we get to the SAO, Ready Player One type of VR (which will probs be in 100-200 years minimum..) VR is just niche for the standing throwing ur arms around crap. Using it like a headset that just engulfs your eyes entirely into a game is the biggest plus.
I'm sure the graphics will eventually get there. If I'm ever able to get a pc I'll be feasting on all the great old pcvr games
PCVR is great!
I've played some great PC games in VR over the last few weeks:
Contractors Showdown
BEHEMOTH
Metro Awakening
Alien: Rogue Incursion
With UEVR:
Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora
Cyberpunk 2077
Hogwarts Legacy
Lets count up the number of real quality playable games (not lawnmowers and s#!t) that were realeased each year since 2017.
Make yourself a little chart and draw a line between each year.
Then you can see the direction of VR gaming. ➡️↘️⬇️
Being new to this space it seems that pcvr still has a bright future as it appears pimax is maturing, they seem to have had great success with the crystal light, and the pimax super seems promising. IF we can get deckard this year it would be huge.
Valve deckard this year (2025). right guys? right?
I just finished Behemoth!!! It was so good! My favorite Behemoth was the bat fight by far. The only problem now is I don't know what to play next weekend. I hope you and your beautiful family had a nice new year!.... I worked Tuesday, so I could only stay up till 11......
Behemoth was also for me one of the most entertaining VR games ever!
Have played Arizona Sunshine Remake? Highly suggested!
House of Da Vinci is a great puzzler. Perfect follow up to behemoth lol
Alright spill the beans. What games did you hear about? Nda shmenda. We need need answers! 😂
Just got psvr2. This sure is a welcoming video into vr. The vr community seems great
hey im new to vr ive got batman and love it but i dont know what my next game i should by and for it to be worth my money?
Beat batman first
@@User_92020 i have thats why asking whats next?
Thanks, Matteo311. This is a great video, and you are a thought leader in this industry. Keep up the great work!
I'm wondering why there aren't more official conversions of classic games to VR, or specifically the Meta store. I can't imagine it would be that difficult to release a version of e.g. Doom with stuff like optional teleport movement and the weapon use redesigned for the hand controllers.
QuestDoom, quest3doom, quakequest thry arent official but damn are they well made
I'm so glad I'm more of a simmer than a gamer, Assetto Corsa Evo is just around the corner, and I suspect it will be glorious.
That's a big one for VR. I imagine the overlap of simmers and VR users is relatively big.
i think it should be obvious that meta will most definitely betray the gaming community they have build in some way as soon as they get the chance to market their newer products to a larger audience. I have been an active VR Enthusiasts since 2016 when the original oculus rift was released and decades before that dreamed about what we already have today, but Facebook/Meta have proven they will kill a product if it significantly deviates from their goal or doesn't get enough engagement anymore. I think its important that by the time Meta decides to pivot to a more general market of computing in VR in general that the gaming sector of VR is large enough that other companies will keep developing for those newer hardware products so that even if Meta abandons their older tech or virtual platforms there are other games and VR places that will be much more long lasting. Future Quests will hopefully go the same way the computer went, which wasn't created for gaming but can be used for gaming, That way the Hardware will become way more versatile while still offering the gaming experiences a lot of people want and hope Meta will just leave the gaming sector of their company as is, while the overall hardware products grow into more sectors and use cases. that way the future of VR devices in general will also be more secure. As far as VR has come even now if for some reason VR gaming would become useless or no one wants to develop games for VR anymore the entire industry would die, we need to be in a place that even if the entire gaming sector experiences a down turn the VR sector keeps growing significantly when that time comes we can be sure that 3rd party companies will keep developing for the VR gaming sector even in those times.
VR games need to start being available on all platforms. I'm not spending money on both a Quest and PSVR even though PSVR has a decent amount of interesting games. I get why exclusives exist - but VR is far too niche still for exclusives to be the gamble. I want RE4RVR, Synapse, and RE7VR - not spending for that though
YoOoOoOO, can we revisit the v72 Quest os failure? I know this was reported as initially an issue with old Quest 2's that haven't been run in a while. But I have (had) a Quest 3 that I had used on Sunday, and when trying to use it Monday I found it bricked on the black screen of death. Luckily it's still under factory warranty and I shipped it to Meta yesterday and I'm waiting on a replacement. But after hanging out in forums all day Tuesday trying to sort of what to do it's obvious this was a HUGE software issue with it bricking all generations of headsets. What happened here?
Bravo, I am also excited for VR in 2025. I know it is possible to complain about everything we want and don't have, but seriously I rarely hear from PC gamers, that they are satisfied with their PC build or the games that play on them, there is always another graphics card on the horizon and there is always a new release of something coming out. Wanting more is part of being human. Just don't let it get in the way of enjoying the now. I have more games and things I can do in VR than I have time or energy for. There are a bunch of games on my wishlist that I just haven't had time to get and play. The current generation of Q3 is an amazing sweet spot of an all-around device. I do not need or want a q4 anytime soon. Happy to enjoy what I have now.
do we know when the horizon os will be available for the public to develop stuff for?
Honestly, I‘m not happy with the state of vr. The best experience I have at the moment, is to stream games from my ps5 pro to my vision pro in a huge immersive view.
I have also lot of vr headsets, but my motivation to play a vr game is rather low at the moment.
The quest visual quality is getting better, but next year the nvidia 50-series gpus will be released and mobile vr games will still look very poor as flat games look better and better.
Well before I got my first VR headset I built a PC with a 2080 card because that was supposed to be what would be needed to handle VR. I figured it would be a long time before stand-alone devices could match the then-available PC graphics capabilities because of the power requirements. Fast forward to today. I still think my assessment was correct, but for the first time I am seriously considering buying the Quest 3 versions of games even if they are available on PC just for the convenience factor. PCVR is still relevant both because of the VR library I have accumulated but also because of UEVR which allows me to play games in VR that will never see an official VR port. The Deckard may reinvigorate PCVR gaming for me but right now I expect it will be too expensive for me to pick it up day 1. Contrary to the Quest and PCVR scenes, I feel very burnt by PSVR. I'm keeping my PSVR but I'm very reluctant to buy any future PSVR versions of games.
U burnt out from them just rehashing unnecessary hardware...HMD hardware is at a good place...its pure greed thats ruining VR...I am so glad to see AndroidXR anouced as i been waiting since 2018 for it to be anounced...now we have a real accessible option apart from Meta...
Id invest in that PC converter box for PSVR2 if i were u...or an AndroidXR HMD...unless u want to go with META...
I'm just getting into vr with psvr2 and I'm absolutely hooked.
Well I don’t agree with you saying sat in front of a pc with a headset
Well having vr with cyberpunk and the depth is so immersive
I cannot play flat screen games anymore as they feel so disconnected and just don’t play them
Unless I can mod them into vr
All hail Luke Ross mod and unreal vr injector
Could you please recommend a good charging dock that comes with rechargeable batteries for the controllers? I don't want to keep buying batteries all the time 😅
The average age of a Quest user is 25 to 34. That information is available online from a couple different sources.
I wonder if this "average age" is due to the fact that the 12-year-olds didn't have $500 so their parent bought it for their child and registered the device in their name so they could control the credit card purchasing of games?!?!?!?!? I say this as an adult who doesn't use Horizon worlds because of the rampant 12-year-olds that infest that domain!
@ no I think it has to do with the registered accounts. And if you register an account I your name as a parent for your 12 year-old play that account will get banned because of age restricted content . I see it happen all the time in the Quest groups on FB.
@@steffendetrick Parents buying a Quest for their kids are not concerned about the rules when it comes to what or how their children play. They're not simply handing over a $500 device to their 12-year-old without setting up the device themselves. Any they're not reading over all the rules.
I simply cannot play standalone games anymore. Less immersive, less fidelity, less everything. But the pcvr space is becoming pretty stagnant.
Can anyone tell me what game that is playing at about the 7: 30 minute mark?
I love my Quest 3 for Batman and p*rn, and my PSVR2 for games. 2024 was good. Lets go 2025!!!
Metro VR is the perfect example of trying to make a flatscreen game into a VR game. Mad boring and hella u skippable cutscenes and dialogue about things I absolutely do not care about. Constant narration and hand holding as well. The whole marvel quips and narration in gaming is so annoying. Arizona sunshine 2 did this so poorly.
If HoYo shows the industry the way forward with a Genshin VR port (which they have talked about), then gacha games will take over. Nothing would be more appealing than collecting characters that you can actually BE. That will bring lots more players in the VR space to begin playing other games.
So a boneworks remaster is coming to quest 3 this year