Why did Saruman Turn Evil and Hate Gandalf? | Lord of the Rings Lore | Middle-Earth
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2024
- Why did Saruman join Sauron and turn Evil? What led him to betray the mission that the Valar had given him? And were there any early signs of his betrayal? And why did Saruman hate Gandalf so much? These questions and more as we explore the flaws and downfall of Saruman the White, the head of the Wizards of Middle-Earth.
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Развлечения
Hey guys, I'm sorry if I sound a bit off in this video, but I was recording with a really annoying cold 😅 Anyway, as always subtitles are available and feedback is welcome!
I do find the betrayal of Saruman is very meaningful and enjoyable. Too bad, he didn't live to see another light of days.
Np man, hope you're getting better! Needless to say great content as always
Thanks guys! I'm better now though it was so frustrating to record this 😂
Hope you feel better soon!
Great job, my friend! Way to power through the cold! 💪
I love how iconic and masterful a performance christopher lee gave as saruman that its nearly impossible to imagine saruman as looking any other way
Funny, I was thinking the same about Ian McKellen's Gandalf!
Lee was a diehard Tolkien Fan, he said he met Tolkien himself, read the books at least once a year and spoke the black speech partly. It was just too perfect.
Perfect casting of them both
The two best performances were Gandalf and Saruman. Christopher Lee and Ian McClennan followed by Gollum Andy S.
I also heard that he wanted to be Gandolf originally and already had the role filled.
The most important question is, when did he abandon reason for madness? And why did he sing the trololo song?
His voice is a pathway to many abilities some considered to be unnatural
the trolololo song was a result of thousands of years of pent up annoyance
lol
I see what you did there 🙈
the trololo song contains great mystical power
The little details written on "Unfinished Tales" about Saruman badnouthing Gandalf's smoking habits but low-key envying him, while disguising himself and going to the Shire to get some pipeweed, and Gandalf knowing all about it but keeping silent instead of chastising him for the hypocrisy, are plainly hilarious....
I just love how petty this was XD!!
Yeah I had loved that part! Seems so trollish on Gandalf's end :)
It's also kinda sad. Saruman wasn't made evil, he just slowly ruined his perception. Gandhalf could have intervened and drew some sort of connection to him to fill the gap between who Gandalf was and what Saruman slowly chose to perceive him as. He's not only overly prideful, but is also a personifed representation of someone who lives in an ivory tower. They could have been such good friends if Sarumans insecurities were dealt with in some way.
@Eric Konschuh it's in the Unfinished Tales book. Istari chapter if my memory is correct. And perhaps elsewhere in that book.
@@Joey-rs7uq Oh, I don't know... his name isn't far from an anagram of Sauron. ;-)
Saruman was a total tragic fallen figure. Had SO much potential, but let his thirst for power and his self doubt plague him and turn him dark.
However, I feel like the best stories have this happen
I think in his punishment he is banished never to see Valar again but I like to think he wondered about Middle Earth and see's it come into a time of great prosperity might in some way humble his spirit. I think it's a perfect punishment for all his evil.
It seems like a common theme of evil is that it never starts off as evil. It's like gangrene; it starts with a little cut, something that most people wouldn't give a thought to and so ignore it, allowing it to fester and become infected. Once it gets a foothold, it becomes much harder to fight off until eventually it takes you over completely. If you had been humble and self-aware you would probably had taken better care of that wound, much as those who create without wisdom or caution leave themselves vulnerable to corruption and evil.
There is some irony in that had he remained true, the Ring would have likely have ended up on his very doorstep.
Those with evil and suspicious hearts see their own corruption in everyone else.
Conquered by pride and hatred and obsessed with haste and paranoia he tried to play both sides against the middle and brought them all down on top of him.
Great point admiral!
@@GeekZoneMT thank you, Saruman and Denethor have always fascinated me as characters.
Boromir: Let's pass right by Isengard.
Aragorn and Gandalf in this scenario: Yes, going through friendly territory of powerful allies all the way to Mordor sounds like a very good idea.
@InSanctvs A traitor may betray himself and do good he does not intend.
Such is the fate of the enemies of the Empire! Fitting username for the topic of treason.
Master Yoda: Twisted by the Dark Side, young Saruman has become
😂😂😂
He literally betray the good guys in both series 😂
Young? Isn't he thousands of years old?
@@noowanna he was created at the same time as Sauron, Gandalf and all the other maiar. So literally at the beginning and creation of the universe
@@NumbuhONE both series? Wdym
Saruman was jealous of my swag ;)
AYE! ;)
Nah the beard Man jealous of your Beard is Saruman.
Why are you "gandalf the white" but have a picture of gandalf the grey pfff
Fuck man where is my weed
The last straw was when you stole his private shampoo and turned your hair white
They couldn't have picked a better actor to play Saruman then the late Christopher Lee. Not only was he an excellent actor but he absolutely adored JRR Tolkien's work. I heard that he would read the trilogy once a year. I only wished they didn't change his death from the book.
Same here. I did like Sauruman's death in the movie too, the whole "killing a wizard three times" thing, but too bad it was only in the Extended Edition. Love Christopher Lee's performance in LOTR.
SIR Christopher Lee. Just like Sir Elton, Sir Eric, Sir Mick, etc. (yes, I'm serious)
@@Phoebe5448 do you have any idea of what kind of noise someone makes when being stabbed in the back? *B E C A U S E I D O* . . ." _-Christopher Lee_
It seemed like the other 4 Ishtari were corrupted in some form or another along the way. Radagast did some good, but he could have done even more and was "distracted". The blue wizards, they likely did some good before being corrupted or distracted from their mission. Gandalf was the only one that stayed true; perhaps it's because of the Hobbits he stayed on the path. I'm pretty sure that Bilbo and Frodo played a role in keeping Gandalf on the true path.
And the fact that in the time Gandalf (before the Third age) was actually afraid to do it. Because as a maia was shy and modest, but because he believed in his self he could overcome his fear. He succeeded in his mission.
Gandalf also had Narya, which helped encourage and motivate people around him. He also avoided being in one place for too long like Radagast and Saruman, to avoid partisanship or complacency
Technically we know very little about the blue wizards so it's impossible to know if they were actually corrupted
No tolkien revised things, the blue wozards did great good. One was named "east helper" and the other "darkness slayer" in their language. yeah, if they hadn't influenced things in the East, Gondor would have fallen to sheer numbers alone that Sauron could have called up from that vast area of the continent.
Yes, to say that the wizards were created for good and their objective was to seek out and defeat Sauron they didn't do a very good job (of course except for Gandalf).
Saruman: "So you have chosen...death"
*A few weeks later*
Saruman: "Hey, Gandalf. Do you still have that two-for-one coupon than can get you an extra life at the Pearly Gates?"
Gandalf: "Sorry, already used it."
Saruman: "Oh, crud"
biggest Oof moment in Middle-Earth
Interesting... actually there are two lives AT the pearly gates. [his][HIS]... but at that time will be some math to go on. Division by zero if you will. Scary huh?
Whats the pearly gates?
Am I the only one that knows this is a quote from the Nostalgia Critic?
Saruman will remember this.
Dude...the LAYERS to Saruman. It's unreal. I can't say I sympathize with him, but Tolkien made such a believable portrayal of a human being (not literally, but you know what I mean). The paranoia, the slow corruption of his morality, likely without him even realizing it. The little justifications, the corners cut, the lack of faith in those around you, assuming everyone is just as bad as you...there is so much humanity in this character.
It's stuff like this that makes me love Tolkien. I'm not actually the biggest fan of "traditional" fantasy, but I adore Lord Of The Rings because Tolkien uses these tropes and ideas (many of which he invented) SO DAMNED WELL.
Example: that whole exchange with Gandalf blowing the smoke rings. On a surface level, it's just your usual "mysterious wizard being mysterious" trope. But then you stop and remember that these "wizards" are mighty, ancient, angelic beings whose brains are likely working on a higher level than you can even imagine. They don't NEED to speak to communicate. Symbolism, metaphor, and simple gestures carry just as much weight to these people.
Also, when you simplify it, Gandalf basically just told Saruman off by blowing smoke in his face. So it's still relatable to the average person despite the flowery language.
In short: the "trope" WORKS here because it's not a trope. It's a purposeful piece of storytelling that enhances the world. THIS is why Tolkien is a timeless master of fantasy. It all comes back to this intentionality. Every sentence, word, even LETTER is there for a reason. It all enhances the greater story.
Yeah I agree! I think he's one of the more grey character in Tolkien's works. And he's so very human that it's hard not to empathise a bit with him. His negative feelings and fall to evil are sometimes mimicked in the real world :(
Yes, I was amazed by these things too. Also, I guess it might have hurt my feelings if the elves didn’t give me the ring of fire. But I hope that I would have had the courage to tell someone it bothered me and I was resentful, and ask for help.
“Galadriel... (sigh) Can we talk?” 😂
6:03 "Now Saruman's paranoia had grown to incredible levels..." You sure it's not the pipe weed?
I think he might have had some edibles
Whatever he was smoking....it made him turn different colors...DMT edibles
@@lordofthehouseofstormcrows8615 it made him turn different colors lol
Or at least his Grateful Dead coat was changing colors.
Really interesting. Didn't know that Saruman initially went to the Easterlings.
Yeah, it's interesting how 3 wizards were sent there in total. I suppose there was more work to be done in those lands
@@GeekZoneMT the East is at least double the size of the west- the Blue to the Misty is one distance, the next mountain range is double that and the Red Mountains are double that (regarding Dwarven realms). Rhun on the map is a large, empty space that one wizard could not possibly cover
It's a shame we don't know more about the East in Tolkiens works. Couldn't imagine how scary it would be to be completely ruled by Sauron. Considering that these people were indoctrinated from birth to see Sauron as an Emperor-God-King. I'd love to hear more about the Blue Wizards while they were there too.
What’s so interesting is that Christopher lee was upset that he was not chosen to play Gandalf. The jealousy crossed over ! Haha
Although it was more becuase he was tolkien friend and he told him that if there was ever a movie about his books. He would be Gandalf
@@Iruka1991 yup, but I just can’t picture Lee playing a friendly character. Lol his very deep booming voice just says villain to me. Same as his roll with count dooku. Just my opinion though.
He played death in dis world. He’s simultaneously scary and lovable. Letting his granddaughter use his rib cage as a xylophone for example.
I used to hate saruman then overtime I realized he was pitiable. A being so wise and strong brought down by his own jealousy pride and fear. I agree with everything said in this video
*then 🤦🏼♂️
@@solongsuicide9 ah yes, grammar nazis in 2020, with a facepalm emoji to boot
you are almost as pitiful as Saruman himself
@@dumblenutz5561 AHAHAHAHAHHA nice one !
Right or wrong, Tolkien often painted those who aligned with craftsmanship and innovation as easily corrupted.
Both sauron and saruman were Maiar of Aule to start.
Only Aule was immune, as he lacked any sense of ownership.
I think it shows Tolkien's lingering hatred of the destruction in ww1, the first truly mechanical war
I like to think it's because innovation progresses far faster than our wisdom to fully comprehend the scope of our actions
Was still racist though.
@@riyadali4082 What is racist?
@@leviwillis7775 Styling orcs on Africans and dwarves on Jews.
@@jonathonrobinson6081 okay, that's too far of a reach there.
“Saruman is in pain, terrible pain!”
Tell me, "friend", when did Saruman the Wise abandon reason for madness?
Good scene Saruman had no compassion and love look at that scene on how he pushed him in the wall after Gandalf said that jyst saying😕
I found your discussion of the potential for creative power to fuel vanity unless one possesses the wisdom to avoid it (from around 10:30 on) both enlightening and insightful.
An underrated character in my opinion. Characters that fall to evil are always interesting to look at. I think its always a shock how relatable they can be at times.
Because you are evil that is why u can relate to them
Gandalf should have picked up on Saruman’s pride and jealousy and spoke to him about it directly.
Hope you feel better soon GZ! As always, great content. Your key framing has gotten much tighter, I like it!
Cheers Brandon! Yeah I prefer it this way, I think I'll set it as the new standard :)
Two words: Longbottom Leaf
These Hobbits always causing problems >:(
The downfall of Sauron clearly. Shire smokeleaf.
“You smoke too much Pippin”
@@GeekZoneMT The wraiths weren’t looking for the ring when they went around asking for “Shire” and “Baggins”. They were just trying to cold cop that danky dank Shire Leaf and Bilbo was the only middle they knew of to the plug
Makes you paranoid... ;D
Hey Carl,
I was reading some comments in the uruk-hai video and they got me thinking: How did Sauron feel about Morgoth? Both before and after his banishment? Did he respect him? At least as much as a Dark Lord can respect anything? Aren't there references to Melkor worship among Sauron's forces? I'd actually love an episode on this if possible. I've always been both fascinated and perplexed by Sauron's actual beliefs and motivations.
Hey man I was actually planning to cover that very topic soon! :)
@@GeekZoneMT Awesome! Thanks, dude! I love your videos!
If i recall things right when in Numenor Sauron persuaded the Numenorians to worship Morgoth as a form of god
Saruman and Sauron were both Maiar of Aule (the smith Valar), and both fell into evil under the influence of a powerful evil being. Originally Sauron fell under Morgoth, and then in turn Saruman fell under Sauron. There seems to be a chain of falling going back to Morgoth.
Mairon's (Sauron's real name) was a being that desired order and saw the actions of Elu and the Valar as negeletive parents. He knew Melkor was going to be an abusive parent, but with Melkor there was one will, while the Valar had 13 wills that competed with each other. As for Sarumon, he is a deal more complicated
Moral of the story:
If you're gonna smoke the Shire leaf, do it like Gandalf, because you want to, and not like Saruman, because it made Gandalf look cool!
Or am I missing the point of the Lord of the Rings....
I wonder if Tolkien was a toker himself. He associates psychedelic substance use with sympathetic characters
Lord of the Smoke Rings basically
"He crafted his own lesser ring of power". I don't remember this and would love to know more about it.
Same here, first time I hear about this and would like to learn more
Some hobbit has it somewhere. Helps it with it's fishing and dancing. Plus it doesn't stumble so much when it's wasted.
@@dimarg00 it's the part of the book when Gandalf goes to him for council.
@GeekZone - I think the word you were looking for for much of that episode to describe Saruman is Narcissism.
That trait, it's the main thing that opened the door for Saruman to turn to evil. That and the fact that Sarumon studdied the tools and tactics of evil on top of his narcissism was a deadly cocktail for the white wizard.
“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”
― Friedrich W. Nietzsche
For all the joy Aule derived from creation and making, he was never possessive of his creations an was always willing to collaborate or share. He too had experienced the grief of nearly losing the creations he loved the most. Indeed, it was because of his willingness to let them go, that Eru had mercy on him and breathed life into the Dwarves he had made in imitation of the Children of Eru that were to come. He also bore the suffering caused when Melkor toppled the Lamps he had made to light Middle Earth and ruined the symmetry of the shaping of Arda. Through this grief, he never became bitter and possessive over the things he made or their loss. It was Aule alone who showed pity and empathy toward Feanor, when he was asked to unlock his Silmarils so that the Two Trees might be brought back to life. Unfortunately, generosity, empathy, and finding joy in the making rather that the owning of a thing were traits he was unable to pass on to his students and kin.
One of the best videos you’ve created to date. Perfect length, Nice flow in both narrative and pictures, Rich in detail, great balance of facts and speculation and also the topic itself binds a lot of the Key characters and events together. Well done!🔥
All the videos are like this 🖤
I always got the feeling there had been a battle between Saruman and Sauron Through the Palantir, and Saruman had lost.
In the meeting with Gandalf , he says nobody is strong enough to resist. Meaning himself.
Saruman: "You did not seriously think that a hobbit could contend with the will of Sauron? There are none who can."
Good back story though, definitely his Pride was too big.
hmmm to be fair that bit doesn't happen in the books
That becomes so much more ironic when you consider that Pippin of all people was able to glean all the info they needed while giving nothing in return, completely triumphing over Sauron, something no one else had ever done, save Isildur.
@Eric Konschuh Oh yeah, "The enemy thinks you have the ring." If he actively thinks it's in Rohan/Gondor, then he would never think it's already by Minas Morgul. And even better, if he thinks they're about to use it against him, that might force his hand or something.
@@bluesbest1 you dare badmouth Pippin!!!??
@@gamelordkiller3344 how is he doing that at all? You’re really dumb man. Like seriously that’s not funny at all.
Saruman's big mistake was choosing a human form which looked like Christopher Lee. Hard to do that and not end up being the bad guy. He's lucky he didn't end up being a vampire.
By assuming flesh, and indeed human appearances, they became fallible. Moreover, Saruman was - like Sauron - a Maia of Aule. That can't be a coincidence. Lastly, like Radagast, some of the Istari just kind of forgot their original mission - it had been thousands of years after all - and became preoccupied with the ostensible short term goals they had. It's kind of a metaphor for the whole 'divine being having a mortal experience' kind of thing.
Saruman's attitude toward hobbits is a litmus. He despises small things...
"..you hobbit-lordlings, riding along with all those great people, so secure and so pleased with your little selves...Gandalf would look after your affairs... ...But you must go dangling after him, dawdling and talking, and riding round twice as far as you needed."
Gandalf, on the other hand, esteems them.
"My dear Frodo...!...Hobbits really are amazing creatures, as I have said before. You can learn all that there is to know about their ways in a month, and yet after a hundred years they can still surprise you at a pinch."
Did Sauron detect Saruman's lust for the One Ring from afar? Like Morgoth perceived Ungoliant's lust for the Silmarils?
"Lightly he made this vow, as he ever did; and he laughed in his heart. Thus did the great thief set his lure for the lesser."
And the acquiring of Orthanc is a precursor to empire, a conqueror's turf.
"But Saruman had slowly shaped it to his shifting purposes, and made it better, as he thought, being deceived - for all those arts and subtle devices, for which he forsook his former wisdom, and which fondly he imagined were his own, came but from Mordor; so that what he made was naught, only a little copy, a child's model or a slave's flattery, of that vast fortress, armoury, prison, furnace of great power, Barad-dûr, the Dark Tower..."
Gandalf, on the other hand, remains a wanderer all his days in Middle Earth, like Aragorn, a free agent, so to speak.
‘But if you would know, I am turning aside soon. I am going to have a long talk with Bombadil: such a talk as I have not had in all my time. He is a moss-gatherer, and I have been a stone doomed to rolling. But my rolling days are ending, and now we shall have much to say to one another.’
Your content is top tier! Your scripts and delivery is masterful. Keep up the brilliant work, good sir!
In the Books Saruman did Not join with Souron . He wanted to replace him . Then again the Movies had just the barest of similarities to the books.
He acted like Sauron's ally and was indeed a lackey in truth-without the Ring that was all he was
Just finished the trilogy again and was wondering this, thanks for clearing some things up.
You're welcome my friend!
Love coming back from camping and seeing my favorite RUclips has published a new video!
I'm so glad I found your channel, great stuff, I rarely instantly subscribe and turn on notifications after watching just one video in a channel.
Jealousy, hatred and the desire for power/wealth, this is why the world need more Gandalfs and less Sauromans.
One of your best videos. Excellent good. Much appreciated.
Gotta say your final statement about saruman, was wise, I felt some hatred and bitterness towards a person that I loved a lot, felt the world against me but this video and LoTR in general helped a lot. Thank you.
Thank you for your wonderful analysis. I also love the kool graphics you use to illuminate your commentary.
Last time I was this early was 3,000 years ago, when the strength of man failed.
ISILDUUUUUUUUUUUUUR!
CAST IT INTO THE FIRE!
@@TheFilthyFinch No.
@@rojhatcaglayan7402 ISILDUUURR!
But the hearts of men are easily corrupted...
Excellent video! Quick shoutout to the Gehrman soundtrack from Bloodborne at 8:06. One of my favorites!
One of my favorite videos so far! Great job! Love your work!
Cheers Dylan! It was a really fun topic to research! :)
Wait i wandered off from Serbian music i am drunk.
But i am intrigued, Kosovo can wait, let us hear of Saruman!
I like your priorities 👊
I am a high schooler from Montenegro, and I have been studying for all these times, all classes that we have, including physics, chemistry, biology, geography, mathematics, Italian, History, German, English and Serbian. In Montenegro, education system is like that that teachers don't teach us, they want us to memorize things (all these classes, memorize at once, when I am not interested in much of them, except of Serbian, English, German and History. But I still study them and literally spend all day on the book. Not just that, but Corona simply made the already bad system worse.
So I, at my home, spend time memorizing things that probably (no, REALLY) won't help me much in life. I love history, writing, reading and theology and I have to memorize things that I won't need for those things, nor will they help with how I build my life or build relationships with people, and my brain gets exhausted and full of everything.
Seeing a video about Middle Earth from Geekzone really helps my brain. It really does, and I really want to thank you for this, mellon, for helping me deal with all this. I know this might sound like I am trying to get attention or that I want to make myself a victim, but I swear I am not, I really just wanted to thank you for making this video, for making all of your videos. It really helps me and I really don't know how to thank you.
Mellon, you deserve 5 million subscribers, instead of guys and girls who just dye their hair, put some piercings and tattos and then dance in a funny way and use auto-tune and then "sing". Their "songs" are an insult to music, mostly, unlike your work, that would make even Tolkien himself proud:)
Thanks man I'm glad that my content helps in some way! I hope you know that you too are a core part of this community, for without you guys and your kind words and motivation, I wouldn't have made it this far, and this channel would be nowhere as fulfilling!
@@GeekZoneMT If YOU weren't good in the first place, that means no one would have motivated you at all and no one would subscribe. But you WERE great, and people DID support you. Just stay that way:)!
X и Т 22 i think that he deservers 20 million subcribers. Such a amazing created-video with a lot of lore on middle earth! And his voice is so enchanting and beautifull to listen too.
@@sebastiaanvanveen3719 His voice is very good, mellon.
Well done! Yet another great video to add to the epic logs of your work.
You have earned a POB from me @GeekZone!
Pat on the Back!
Aaaaand subscribed. Really good vid!
That was just brilliant, I loved your insights into Gandalf and Saruman.
Best video yet. Very enlightening.. Didn't know some things you said . Made the story make more sense . Brilliant
Thanks man!
Hey :) i really love the video. Nice compilation of facts and ideas - but Saruman was stronger than Gandalf, when they first went to Middle Earth. He bested him in Orthanc and locked him up there - but Gandalf was his superior in compassion and in forgiveness. Saruman never forgave Galadriel for example, for her idea to put Gandalf in charge. So im not sure about the power thing - after Gandalf came back, its another matter. But before? Saruman was above him in terms of that. And Gandalf even said that it was Sarumans machinations, that drove out Sauron out of Dol Guldur - not Galadriel.
Great video about the fall of Saruman, thanks for sharing.
that last sentance about saruman..you just described my mother in law XD
Gandalf arrived later on a different boat so he might have kept the secret for a good long time, possibly until the incident with the Dragon? Cirdan is one of my favourite Elves, having never met Olorin, to give Gandalf his ring of power was an astonishing act of wisdom.
A very interesting deep dive into this characters history. There was a lot here I didn't know, so thank you for broadening my understanding :)
Saruman smoking hobbit's pipe weed; that would explain, at the end of the Two Towers Movie where Merry and Pippen found 2 small barrels of Long Bottom Leaf pipe weed from the Shire, after the battle of Isengard in a store room/pantry.
Saruman is a prime example of the adage: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." He was first and foremost, a Maiar of Eru and Aule. But I think he always had a touch of jealousy towards Gandalf even when they were in Valinor.
Most excellent, as usual. The artwork is stunning! Is this your artwork by any chance?
Very nice video Karl. As always!💕
Thanks buddy!
Great video love your channel !
Glad you enjoyed it mate!
Your Videos are just the best man
Well done!
This was a very good cautionary analysis!
Good stuff sir. Thanks for posting.
As time goes on the pics get better and better
I have almost no knowledge of lords of the rings lore, but this was very interesting. Also, that beautiful white palace music as the outro.
Great topic as always
Cheers mate!
great video! like always.
Saruman's betrayal was really a very perilous thing for all of Middle Earth, considering the balance of power between good and evil that the Istari were supposed to be there to *correct.* Evil was too strong, so 5 Istari (Wizards) were sent to restore balance, and give good a decent chance. But three of them basically went off to do their own thing, and of course the leader, Saruman, actively betrayed his / their purpose. Since only Gandalf held true to his good mission there in the material world, the task of balancing out evil's advantage of strength became *much* harder. It's a true wonder Sauron didn't win, and we can see how chance played a major role, esp in the One Ring's final destruction. Things could've *easily* gone the other way.
My question is why Gandalf (at least in the Peter Jackson version of "The Hobbit"), couldn't remember the names of two of his colleagues? He forgot Pallando and Alatar altogether, and only made brief mention of Radagast when his help was needed. Sheesh, Gandalf, they're your friends!
Ooo the first hunter theme, bloodborne music fan I see, good tastes my dude. Aside from that, I never knew Saruman had that much layers to him till this vid, good job lol 👍👍
Personally from that last question, I’d like to think that if Saruman stayed good, he and Gandalf would be friendly rivals. I can picture 2 old wizards at the green dragon smoking together and just chilling if Saruman had decided to open up to Gandalf and be friends with a positive and nonchalant rivalry
Really enjoy your videos GZ; I feel what sets you apart from other Tolkien creators is your profound interpretations of his work. For example, on the phial of Galadriel video, your take that Galadriel put the light of Earendil in a emptiable phial so as not to repeat Feanur's mistake with the silmarils was great.
In regards to this video what do you think about Manwe's desire to see Gandalf lead the Istari and the possibility that Saruman and Sauron were acquainted in Aman, both being servants of Aule?
He got usurped by a pot smoker and his buddy who fried his brain with shrooms.
He deals in bails of herb that's why he has his little wagon haha
Don't underestimate pot smokers.
Nice choise of soundtrack, love The First Hunter
Great video, man, and great analysis of one of the wizards. 👌👌👌
I don’t think he abandoned his mission. I think he was holding true to his mission. I believe his betrayal was part of the historic song sung in Valinor. The battle of the Hornberg is such a major part of the story that there is no way they did not know Saruman would turn. Or if they didn’t know then only Illuvatar truly understood the song being sung.
Nagaroth music in the background is a nice touch.
Perfect timing haha. I just saw this Gandalf vs Saruman fight with Shire music
Gehrman's theme fits well with your video, nice 👍
Wow. Great analysis
Oh man, when even your arch rival holds your words as gold (Saruman listening to Gandalf as he mocks him)
great vids xD out of curiosity are you Maltese?
Great video.
Always great! KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK! Your videos are amazing. Maybe one day, our paths will cross. Until then friend, stay well, and keep vigilant.
Thanks Jared! I'm certainly keep this going for many years to come! :)
@@GeekZoneMT Real quick...who would win in a fight? Azog vs. Helm Hammerhand...
Thanks Carl. It was very interesting and I enjoyed it. I did think, though, that there might be some inconsistency in the portrayal of Saruman's progressive fall; and maybe that mirrors inconsistency in the source materials. Anyway, two things have long struck me on this subject:
1) I don't think the fall started when Saruman learned Gandalf held one of the Three. I think the character flaw was present before the Istari were chosen, and Saruman's path was probably inevitable from the very beginning.
2) I've always been surprised how much is made of the Wise being proud of their guile, wisdom, cunning and ability to see through lies; and yet they overlooked so many clues about Saruman's treachery but believed him to the last that seemed pretty obvious to many of us inferior mortals. Gandalf came to Moria when summoned, despite what you say about him long having misgivings. And Saruman risked plenty to make his offer to Gandalf, for all the animosity and jealousy you explain... for a fool's errand: he should have known that his chances of corrupting Gandalf were far too small to be worth such risk.
Great video
great job on the video and story, your accent is incredible, it is if it's from Middle Earth.
Good video GeekZone! Very true! About people in real life having these problems.
It kind of does make one wonder if Tolkein had a ring fetish or something.
He said, keenly avoiding the subject of Hobbit feet!
rings are a luxury item, expensive, coveted. But also small and innocuous. Rings are often worn to show achievement or commitment. like a wedding ring, or super bowl ring.
But these rings are peculiar, they dont represent power and achievment, they create it! and they dont symbolize commitment, they demand it!
Like a normal ring, they are a luxury item, coveted, and extremely valuable, ESPECIALLY to the wearer/user.
Perfect analogy for an addiction.
@@benjamingrezik373 I don't know if the rings are as synonymous with addiction as much as with drugs themselves. There are good ones, and their are bad ones. It will be self destructive to let your desire for any of them run unchecked, but there's still that one that you want to avoid at all costs.
Gollum is tho poster child for addiction in this story, while the rings are the drugs
@Dziordan1 I think it's more about the cock rings, but I'm sure there was plenty of rimming going on in Tolkien's life.
Very interesting video, hadn't thought about the influence of his travels in the east. I wonder, since saruman created a ring, what power did it have and did it make him aware of the other ring carriers?
5:50 - pipeweed makes me paranoid too.
Amazing vid
A platitude - "Good creates, evil corrupts"
10:53: Counter platitude - Creating can lead to self corruption.
Clearly destruction is the true answer.
Nice great vid
I know that Tolkien didn't write an allegory for Christianity, but I'm getting some pretty strong vibes of the Pharisees here.
I think it’s more like Lucifer. Angelic being who gives in to jealousy and envy and betrayers his own kind
he did say lord of the rings was a "very catholic book" but that he didnt like analogy itself :)
@@gentlemancharmander4411 Lucifer was jealous of Jesus that's why he was trying to stop him from coming and dying on the cross ✝ and saving mankind.
@Frizzurd Loki that's Thor's half brother.
@Frizzurd You is there another Loki that's real I know Thor was real in mythology.
"FOOL OF A TOOK! THROW YOURSELF IN NEXT TIME AND RID US OF YOUR STUPIDITY!" -Mithrandir, highest & wisest of the Istari
Wow! That’s crazy! I think I feel bad for Saurumon. What was happening to inside of him is something that happens to almost all of us at some time or another in our lives, envying others, falling into the trap of self-importance and wanting to be respected. That’s a whole other level to him I never considered.