How Tom Waits gets THE BEST musicians to sound like AMATEURS
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- Опубликовано: 15 апр 2024
- Joe Gore takes Jack and Ryan through the process of recording guitar for Tom Waits' "Goin' Out West" on his album, Bone Machine. They get into the nuances of gear, Waits' sense of humor, how he elicits great performances, mixing, Tchad Blake, and how Joe's approach to harmony is influenced by his love of medieval music.
HUGE thank you to Joe Gore for joining us on this episode!!
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Hosts: Jack Conte, Ryan Lerman
Executive Producer: Ryan Lerman
Production Managers: Jason Shadrick, Rachel McGowan
Editor: Adam Kritzberg
Theme Music Mixed by: Caleb Parker
Podcast Producer: Isaac K. Lee
Chief Music Nerd: Nick Campbell
#tomwaits #joegore #thedeadwaxshow #jackconte #ryanlerman #deadwax #musicians #musiciansreact #music 
Видеоклипы
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Hi friends! It was such a pleasure and honor to do this interview with two such smart and passionate guys. Their tight edit also made me sound a lot smarter than I am. I’ve conducted over a thousand musician interviews myself during my years working for the magazines, and man, I wish I had Jack and Ryan on staff back then! Thanks too for everyone’s kind words! They mean even more to me than you might suppose. 💕
Oh Mr. Gore, you are pure genius!
@@bernsense Far from it, though I appreciate the sentiment! (I say that with authority, because I’m in Salt Lake City right now playing with the guitar octet Another NIght on Earth and the Utah Symphony. I’m kinda the weakest link. Jiji Kim … Daniele Gottardo … Steve Mackie … Them’s the real geniuses. :)
Thanks Joe! It was so interesting and inspirational to watch this. I would love to hear more about what you have learned studying medieval music. Also since you're into Afrobeat, check out Thandiswa Mazwai's recent set on Tiny Desk, blew my mind.
@@Harrier_DuBois Thanks - I just did! What a lovely voice. It’s not afrobeat - that style comes from Nigeria, and the Africans I played with were mostly from there and Ghana. But that South African style is a HUGE primal influence for me. One of my strongest childhood musical memories was hearing my mom’s Miriam Makeba albums. (She was a Xhosa singer from SA who achieved international popularity in the 1960s.) I’ve loved this one for well over 50 years:
ruclips.net/video/sfQp_W9NIQ8/видео.html
Years later, when my attachment to classical music was fraying, I became obsessed with South African pop, especially anything that featured guitarist Marks Mankwane, still one of my absolute faves. Like this one:
ruclips.net/video/Y7Kn6UF1-6s/видео.html
I spent many, many hours learning to play in this style.
Meanwhile, it’s the 30th anniversary of Malcolm McClaren’s brilliant and bizarre Duck Rock album. He went to South and worked with Zulu musicians years before Paul Simon - and ripped them off just as much! Notice any similarity between this song and the one above? (BTW, Duck Rock is also one of Tchad Blake’s favorite albums.)
ruclips.net/video/q7bw51Aya-4/видео.html
Yeah, same song, with McClaren singing nonsense words that sound vaguely like the Zulu lyrics. I love this brilliant Trevor Horn production almost as much as I do the rootsy original. But McClaren stole the songwriting credit and didn’t even list the album’s non-British musicians, like whoever this amazing guitarists is. (Could it have been Mankwane?)
Anyway, Zulu and Xhosa music has been part of my sonic mindscape since my grade-school years. :)
I can only see the first part of your reply, the rest is hidden for some reason, but yeah I know it's not really Afrobeat but it is African Jazz. I like Fela Kuti and what his son is doing these days is really cool too, I've played his video of Opposite People with Newen Afrobeat so many times.
the must be the best musician interview I've seen on RUclips.
This channel is such a "hidden gem" and I hate that phrase because I wish more people could know about it!
Just thought the exact same thing. What a gem.
At least you didn't use the U word @@Guysm1l3y
I was so glad when this channel came back from the dead. I missed it when it was gone.
ABSOLUTELY!
My wife ran into Tom Waits decades ago at a Goodwill in LA. He was talking to the clerk in the same growling voice, and he said, “I’d like to buy a poncho”.
Was that a Sears poncho , or a real poncho ?
That is beautiful, why does this make me laugh
@@artonion420 cause it’s a reference to a Frank Zappa Song 😅
@@philipphollebauer9591 i didn’t reply to that comment but sure, I appreciate the reference as well
Absolutely unbelievably great interview. Best ever on You Tube.
Oh my good god.
1. That tone.
2. Music knowledge that makes me feel completely useless as a player, yet also makes me want to start from the beginning and better my knowledge.
3. Stories of Tom.
4. The way of working so quickly to deliver brilliance.
5. The small detour into medieval music history!
6. I just want hear more about the other songs Joe played on Bone Machine - with examples.
Great video. More like this please.
Don’t say that about your “uselessness,” Josh! Every guitarist has something unique about their playing - the trick is to find that voice. My path happened to run through theory-heavy academia, so I went with that. But few of my favorite players can even read music, let alone drone on about music theory.
@@joe_gore thanks Joe, very kind and supportive words. Would love to see more of you talking about stories like in this vid.
This interview had me absolutely floored start to finish. From the simple revelation of the trem part being a single guitar part (and not an easy one to pull off) to bringing Messiaen and crunchy pre-tonal concepts into a conversation about a Tom Waits track? Unbelievable.
I am the pompous one, am I not? ;)
@@joe_gore Yes, and it was pitch perfect. Love what you do. Can you post a link to your record? I was surprised there isn't one, but maybe I missed it.
Well, where genius's surf...
We all should remain "amateurs", however professional we are. The word "amateur" stems from "amare"/"aimer" - "love". So an amateur is someone who loves what they're doing. A compliment, really.
truth. if we are to aspire to any illusion of mastery, it should be that of the master-amateur. this is part of my code.
I’ve got that move down. ❤
Joe wrote my favorite guitar magazine columns back in a day. He's a great unsung hero of mine. Great interview, thanks.
this is such a stellar interview, maybe one of the only I've seen that actually gets into Toms working nature in the studio
I hope I don’t get into trouble.
Couldn’t stop smiling! Hooked in by the Tom Waits tag, but the discussion of harmony made me ecstatic! Super fun! Joe Gore speaks!
That story about the guitar part "splattered on the windshield when it should be in the back seat with little Billie and Brenda." Genius.
Tom Waits is a one-off musical artist. An absolute gem
"Let's grab some tools from the wood shop, some elastic bands, ice cream buckets and a duck call and make the most touching love song ever." For Tom, it works.
I think the windscreen guitar sequence is a great example of discussing emotion/feeling rather than solutions. If you go "Drop the guitar by -3db" then you are proposing a solution to an underlying problem. Tom does this vivid painting of what he wants, then leaves the solution to someone else to figure out. It is a brilliant way to engage another human beings expertise. It also holds for video editing: you want to convey what you want to feel to your editor, but let them decide on the cuts. If you propose a solution, you lock down the path that must be taken to achieve it, which can lead to a less creative and interesting outcome.
Totally agree. I wasn’t there for that particular conversation, but it’s a great example of how Tom communicates with his collaborators.
@@joe_gore And the proof of "how it works" is just in the glorious sound of those records. He knows how to utilize the mastery of so many musicians, such as yourself, to be who they are yet do what is part of HIS vision. And what a vision. I would like to hear more about how you see Kathleen interacting in the process. Where is she in all this, I mean physically, but also in a more metaphorical way? I just think that that collaboration needs to be studied in more detail--there truly doesn't seem to be much like it in the parts of musical history that I know of.
And thanks for adding these little comments on the comments of others. I want to look for more of your a) interviews and b) SOUNDS.
This clip went straight into my "Outstanding content" list. I can't even start to explain how everything about this interview resonated deep inside of me. From talking about a targeted sound using car ride metaphors over emphasizing the power of swiftness and imperfection in the tracking process right up to analysing contemporal music in the context of medieval tonal and modal practices. I'm flabbergasted, extremely entertained and deeply inspired all at the same time.
Thank you guys so much. That really was outstanding.
Your kind words mean a lot to me!
OMG, the harmony nerd out at the end was mind blowing!
So relieved that some people were interested. I knew I was going into megageek territory, but I couldn’t help myself!
Agreed! This kind of content is what RUclips is for, to me at least. In general I tend to like things that are just a bit beyond my comprehension. Music geeks with passion, love it!
Joe Gore has such an amazing personality and unique style of playing. I always enjoyed his demos, his experiments on his channel, his sense of humor, his journalist works and of course his playing with Tom Waits. I even enjoy commenting about him and how I enjoy his work :) I'm so glad you guys invited him to your channel!
Joe Gore is AWESOME. His RUclips channel helped get me obsessed with effects back in the day.
He also turned me on to an album he helped make, “To Bring You My Love” by PJ Harvey. A lot of overdubs on that record were done with battery powered mini Marshall practice amps and inspired me to keep mine for recording.
Aw shucks. You’re too kind.
"To bring you my love" has had a huge influence on me. I even had the chance to see PJ Harvey (and Joe !) on this very tour: One of the best gig ever attended. About Joe's amp approach: his Line6 helix presets are worth getting and studying.. There are anything but common.
I’ve worked with Sylvia several times, she has a brilliant mind for recording and sound in general. So stoked he gave her such a great shoutout. Love that book
I’ve met her, and she’s awesome. Sadly, I’ve never been in the studio with her, but hope springs eternal!
Thank you for not limiting this to a theory class. The magic of deadwax is the history and anecdotes of the brilliant artists. Thanks and keep up the great work! Much Love, B
Hee hee - I was me, not Jack or Ryan, who turned it into a theory class. Sorry about that! 😀
When I was in college I heard “Step Right Up” on the radio and I was never the same.
On a Friday night in the Bay Area, the local KSAN D.J. played the entire Small Change album with no breaks. back then I was listening to Miles Davis, Weather Report, John Mayall, Taj Mahal, Brazilian albums, and lots of soundtracks. I was never the same. Sometimes you have to thank yourself for saving yourself.
I got to the end of the video and immediately started it again. I have never done that for any interview or podcast before. This dude is brilliant.
Wait, so you’re telling me this guy is 64 years old? I’m half his age and he still looks younger and more hip than I ever did.
I’m 65 now. I wore some makeup (for reals).
@@joe_gore Looks like next time you’re in a video podcast you’ll have to share your skin care routine. Seriously though, thank you so much for sharing all these gems from this little piece of music history and thanks for sharing how you think about music.♥️
I am blown away. this is all I ever wanted to know.
Tom Waits' persona is not fiction. It is amplification.
Oh I knew it! 😂
This interview is amazing, I could listen to Joe (passionate and humble ) all day and I am not even a musician.
Thanks from France !
Merci beaucoup ! Le plaisir était pour moi, mon copain.
In college I had friend who had been best friends with Leon Redbone's daughter and apparently 1.) neither Tom nor Leon ever drop character-they are their personas-and 2.) they are friends. She said she once slept over at the Redbone's when Tom was there for Leon's birthday party and she said it was the most fun she'd ever had. I can only imagine.
@@joe_gore En français en plus! Fantastique! merci 😉
@@AlexGalt-ch3ei Wow...A perfect sleepover! He is such a genius. Would have been up all night listening to his stories...
@@lareinedemado Mon français est nul, j’ai donc besoin de chaque occasion pour m’entraîner !
I could listen to Joe talk about harmony forever. Definitely have him on again! Great episode. What a fantastic well rounded musician
More Tom Waits, please! (Joe is just great)
My favorite late night desert highway song somehow got better. What an amazing interview.
Really great to see someone breaking down Waits’ music. Would love to see Marc Ribot on here sometime.
Me tooooooo!
love tom waits, this is such a wonderful conversations.
Joe is one of my shaman. All the way back in the pre-internet days reading Guitar Player mag, poring over every weird thing Joe and Jos Albrecht were slinging that month. Then he made those insane albums and I was all over it. Got a Filth Fuzz from him, and it's the best fuzztone I ever played. He even helped me personally when I was having a problem with it being unbuffered. Just the coolest guy ever and a MONSTER player.
Oh, and Joe, the Subversive Guitarist is a masterpiece. Thanks so much to Jack and Ryan for doing this. I'm chuffed.
What incredibly kind things to say, Joshua! I’m deeply touched. Plus thanks for getting one of my janky pedals! ❤
I've followed Joe's channel for the last 4 or 5 years. This is the first time I've heard him speak. Thanks for bringing him on! What a legend.
Okay, this is somehow the best music interview I've ever witnessed.
Really?! ❤
So happy Dead Wax is back! One of my absolute favourite shows.
Rain Dogs was also a game-changer for me.
Right?! And so many other musicians too.
What an incredible interview. Guys, so entertaining but where it all went in the end. So eye-opening, inspiring and just musical. Love it!
Thank for that!
Omg! I am not a musician, but I'm having some kind of weird geek out with this interview in a way I've never had before. Fantastic interviews!
I immediately added the album falling through time to my favorites on Spotify while I'm listening to this excellent video.
Awww! Thanks of zillion!
Finally something interesting. This dude is great. I listened to his album with the medieval stuff. Amazing.
I’m so glad you liked it!
This is what I live for with this channel. So inspiring, so insightful, full of depth. Great stuff
Kathleen and Tom were my Neighbors on Union Ave, LA 1981-82- great interview!
I worked with a guy in S.F. who came up from L.A. He said Tom was in his Yoga class. I kid you not, and that's probably privileged information.
Two weeks ago, my wife and I were in the car after seeing a show and we passed by Sunset and Alvarado, which inspired me to play the beginning of Nighthawks at the Diner, which she really enjoyed, but with all of the spoken word stuff is a little more laid back than she likes. That led me to play Mule Variations, one of my personal favorites, with which she was familiar but never really loved, and so I threw on Bone Machine, which just blew her away…just a crazy amazing album. Thank you for this interview! Tom’s process is so simultaneously controlled and yet reliant on the inherent talent and intuition of the musicians that he brings into the session; it feels both compositionally intense and intensely immediate. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!!
Its refreshing to learn from people just step in and make noise. It could be polished but you go somewhere else. Very inspiring.
Agreeing with what someone else has said here, this is the best musical interview I've seen on youtube. It balances stories about Tom, hanging out in the studio with him, with more musical theory (medieval musical theory to boot!) than I am fully up on. But he PLAYS it for you, so you can hear it, which is really all that matters in the end. Great stuff, I will subscribe and look for more. (I don't mean to get too "competitive" about this, but I will say that to me, this beats "that other guy" who is very very popular on YT and tries to do a similar thing. )
This was a treat,love anything waits related,all his guitarists are phenomenal,thanks pockets/deadwax
What a wonderful interview! Thank you guys!
This is brilliant content on one of America’s best songs. Thank you gents
Incredible interview it had me spellbound from beginning to the end. Thank you!!!!
This is absolutely incredible! So inspiring to me on so many levels. Bone Machine, (and Tom Waits in general) have been a gigantic influence on me since I was very young. It's amazing to hear Joe Gore talking through the process and his thoughts on playing, tone and composition. Stellar content here guys! We need a follow up! I want to know more about the parts he played on that, (and other) records! 🙏🏻
One of the best interviews yall have done. Well done!
When Joe started playing, I couldn’t help but punch the air. This was GOLD for a Waits, Ribot and Gore fan
Really loved this one. Thanks, guys!
This was really amazing. I love Tom Waits and this song and it was just so cool to hear about what it's like to work with him. He sounds a lot like my old boss when I worked as a bartender. The same kind of "specific but kinda vibe-based" details on making things. Love it.
Oh my GAWD! This! What an interview! How he gives Marc Ribot his due?? This is so good! Thank you!
This is such a great interview. I was glued.
Nail polish remover will set you free! (But seriously - thanks!)
Great stuff. I’ve been a Waits fan since 1976. Very interesting
Me too! I saw him live in ‘75 or ‘76, when he was touring “Saturday Night.” I kind of lost touch after the first three or four albums, but Swordfish and Rand Dogs immediately reeled me back in. Never in my wildest dreams …
Fantastic interview. Thanks ❤
20:22 ❤I absolutely love that book. Sylvia is a mad genius. I’ve had that book for years. Get it.
She also has a wild collection of mics.
Yes - it’s just brilliant work.
What an amazing interview!!!
Such a cool interview!
I know a tiny bit of music theory, but was completely spellbound by all of this. I just imagined myself chatting it up with you three at a house party. I’d be the bloke in da cornah smiling and noddin like a freak.
Great, Great Interview. Waits is a fountain of art.
Damn, the stuff I learn from you guys in regards to harmony and feel is su huge! thank you guys!
21:08 to 22:57 Perfect story. Art and technics gathered by human demand, perfectly put into words: "this is what our hearts must feel"...
Thx. It made my day.
Oh and the smart answer about different types of analysis (tonal base or not?) at 39:58. I am fond of this wide open and lucid way to organize knowledge.
This is the interview I have been waiting 20 years for!
Fascinating interview. Checking out Joe's medieval album now.
I hope you like it! Just a few minutes I finished the first rehearsal for an orchestral version scored by David Robertson for the Utah Symphony. I had to relearn and memorize a lot of stuff!
What a tremendous insightful treat! Thanks Joe!
The pleasure was quite literally mine! Thanks for listening to me pontifacte!
Killer conversation, I always thought that was Ribot! Fascinating talk thx y’all!
Fantastic interview with Joe.
This was awesome. My mind was blown multiple times.
Only caught 1/3 way in, but love this, thank you 💙 I'll def be back!!
Thanks for this, guys and poster. Really interesting stuff here. Loved it.
JOE GORE talking about TOM WAITS on DEAD WAX? My evening just got a lot better!
Fantastic! thank you all three. Love Joe, always interesting and entertaining. And do check out Joe's Falling Through Time - utterly unique, fascinating ... beautiful.
What a great interview! Thanks :)
Brilliant stuff- thanks for the inspiration, guys.
Fantastic interview, the perfect blend of artistry and intellect, thank you joe
Are you kidding? It was an honor and a pleasure to participate. :)
That was fascinating. Thanks, guys!
I love how the tele neck shows where the bendy's (or more importantly, don't) live.
Great interview!! I wish he spoke about Black Wings though! That guitar solo - that crazy disintegrating, exploding descent at the end of it - is incredible. I think it’s Tchad gradually bringing the room mics in and distorting the shit out of them. But I was obsessed with that sound as a young guitar player.
Thanks, Dan! Feel free to ask me any questions. But I don’t believe there were any room mics - I thing the low B string just overdrove the amp’s preamps and reverb. But then, I was not there for the mix. I remember playing with a loud amp, but a relatively light touch - except for notes like that one.
@@joe_gore Ah man, what a pleasure to get a reply from the very source! Wow, so it’s only obvious to me now that you had the same tuning for “Black Wings” as you did on “Goin’ Out West”. Of course! And listening back to it again, yep, makes total sense that with a light touch throughout the bulk of that solo, you could then get that low B to do that (wonderful) thing by hitting it much harder. I’m a 49 year-old, somehow still full-time musician/producer down here in Melbourne, Australia. I can tell you hand-on-heart that in my final year of high school I was obsessed with Bone Machine, and that particular point of that album (when your guitar went from thin and eerie to suddenly-demonic) was one of it’s most magical moments for me. It opened up my imagination in ways that literally shaped my future. So….thank you! I was fortunate enough to work on two albums with Tchad some years later.
Oh and if I still have your attention, another funny story: about ten years ago I was introduced to Johnny Marr by a friend at a bar in LA. Lovely guy, but I was a little strapped for something to talk about. Then I remembered something. I told him about buying a Guitar Player magazine when I was a kid that had him on the cover. I told him how much I loved that interview with him, because he got really stuck into Yngwie Malmsteen and was generally dismissive of all the shred-lords that dominated the scene. A phenomenon I was equally bewildered by at the time. I told him how in that interview, his focus on song-based playing really influenced me as a young person. He told me he remembered that interview well! And largely because he received hate-mail for months from the “big hair army”! That interview was with you of course. So thank you again!
Thank you, thank you, thank you. That was amazing!
"Goin' Out West" is a gift that keeps on giving!
Much Love and Respect Joe! You nailed it! - ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Wow Joe Gore is super interesting! From West African music to Tom Waits... Love that eclectic mix! My new guitar hero haha!
Tom Waits is amazing and Rain Dogs is my favorite album. I put the cassette in my car stereo and left it there playing over and over for 3 months.
I love this show - such incredible insights, both technically and creatively!
BEST interview and subject(s) mattrer(s). Fascinating, beautiful, dissonant and deeply inspiring. AND, two non-digital books to find and read and GROK.
Riveting from start to finish. Especially the geek-out on harmony at the end.
I did not expect the discussion of medieval harmony!
Fabulous interview with a peek through the window of the working methodology of Tom Waits. Nothing was really that surprising as I fully expected some absolutely unorthodox approach and it appears that's the way it goes down. A good magician never reveals his tricks and Tom's sleight of hand remains a wonderful enigma that keeps your ear to the speaker, still with more questions than answers.
Joe Gore!! An unexpected crossover. Can’t wait to watch!
What an awesomely generous interviewee
Well, I do love the sound of my own voice a little too much for my own good. ;)
OMFG. 2 of my fav artists on one of my fav songs/albums of all time. To hear the nuts and bolts is so insightful & inspiring. And hilarious! Thank yooooo 👏🏽😎
This is so good. Thank you.
🙏
Great playing both on the albums and on this podcast!!
Awesome job everyone, I was hanging on every word!
Loved this interview!
Great interview, and I especially loved hearing Joe Gore talk about music theory.
this got soooo over my head fast. thank you. in a world of dumbed down content it is nice to see CONTENT/ ima go learn some scales
that's really great. 1st time i see one of your videos, instantly subscribed to your channel
Hearing these Tom Waits stories made my year !!!! “DEATH BANJO” 🤠🤠👍👍👍😂😂💯💯
I wished I remembered more of his jokes and comments. He really is convulsively hilarious.
@@joe_gore “convulsively hilarious” 🤣 I love it !!!! Well we just have to hang out together for an eternity in an abandoned farm in purgatory to hear the rest of Tom’s stories. 👍🫶
That was soooo effin' great!
brilliant insight into the genius of Tom.