Historic Counties of the United Kingdom - origins, confusions, solutions
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- Опубликовано: 7 апр 2024
- (Another version of this video is available with voice only and no background music: • Historic Counties of t... )
What are the historic counties?
Why is there confusion about whether they exist?
What solution is there to end the present-day confusion?
The traditional counties of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are 92 historic subdivisions of the United Kingdom. They are also known as the historic, ancient or geographical counties.
The historic counties (so-called because they ‘have a lot of history’) have existed over 1,000 years in some cases, many centuries in others.
While each historic county may have originally been set up for some public purpose or other, long before the beginning of the nineteenth century it was their geographical and cultural identities that were paramount.
The counties were considered to be territorial divisions of the country, whose names and areas had been fixed for many centuries and were universally known and accepted.
However, particularly since 1974, many county identities have been unnecessarily eroded, while some have been crushed almost to the point of extinction - mainly as a result of confusion created by the misuse of the term ‘county’ (and misuse of historic county names) in local admin zones.
Let’s rescue them before it’s too late.
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This was spoiled for me by the unnecessary use of background music. It was like being on hold on the phone being told "your call is important to us but in the meantime enjoy this endless loop of crap music." I remember having to learn the county names back in primary school about 65 years ago so I still found it fascinating. Bring them back I say :-) (although I do like the name Cumbria and the Welsh names). Whoever thought of replacing Caithness, Sutherland, Ross and Cromarty etc with boring old "Highland" should have been sacked. Thanks for posting.
Thanks for your support! 👍
PS - we are new to RUclips so will re-visit sound and background music for future videos… feedback always appreciated! 👍
We have now uploaded the video without background music: ruclips.net/video/8eocnXzvrvA/видео.htmlfeature=shared 👍
@@RealCounties Thank you so much for that. Best wishes.
@@ballantynemoyes8019 you’re welcome! 😃
Take the stupid music out of the background it’s way to loud and can’t listen to you talk without getting a headache trying to concentrate over it.
Thanks for your feedback. We will look again at background music included in videos with speech. 👍
@@RealCounties sorry was a bit rude in my response! My apologies! Thank you.
You’re welcome. We may do a second version without the background music in that case. No problem at all - its early days in our RUclips journey so feedback will help us get things right. 👍
We have now uploaded the video without background music: ruclips.net/video/8eocnXzvrvA/видео.htmlfeature=shared 👍
I was born and raised in Oxfordshire and was extremely upset when the county boundary was dramatically altered in 1974. I have long wanted Great Britain to revive the historic boundaries. The county maps of Saxton and John Speede have long fascinated me with their clearly defined boundaries. The surprise for me from this presentation was the assertion in 1831 that the historic boundaries 'have been jealously maintained' since the Domesday Book and explains what I had always felt as a deep underlying instinct - that these areas are a fundamental identifier of the geographical and cultural landscape of the country. Yes I support this wholeheartedly
Thanks for your comment and support! 👍
The 1974 arrangements were purely administrative changes - and not changes to the historic counties.
Unfortunately, the way this was done means that few people realise this and that confusion is rife! Implementing our objectives will solve most of the problems that still exist post-1974.
See Wikishire’s interactive map for more details and precise boundaries of the traditional (*actual*) county of Oxfordshire and other shires: wikishire.co.uk/map/#Oxfordshire/centre=51.809,-1.287/zoom=9
As someone from Warwickshire, I find it really frustrating that most people don't even realise that Coventry, Solihull, Birmingham and [most of] Tamworth are in Warwickshire. Most of the county's population doesn't even live within the boundaries of the so-called "ceremonial county". And even looking at what they've done to Warwickshire on the map; it just looks so wrong.
I'm a big fan of the pre-1965 administrative counties, personally. They are more or less the same as the historic counties other than very slight boundary changes to accommodate growing cities. I can understand inner London and Westminster being a separate entity to Middlesex, at least politically, it's these "metropolitan counties" that I can't stand. As a local authority, fine, but as rightly pointed out in the video, THEY ARE NOT COUNTIES!
I hope awareness spreads about these things, too many people are unfortunately quite ignorant with regards to their counties, through no fault of their own. We just want our counties back, otherwise many will be gone from the broader cultural memory.
Many thanks for your comment and support! 👍
See Wikishire’s interactive map for more detail and precise boundaries of Warwickshire and other traditional Al counties: wikishire.co.uk/map/#Warwickshire/centre=52.333,-1.586/zoom=10
As someone born and raised in Solihull (even after 1997) I consider myself to be from Warwickshire, mostly because I support Warwickshire County Cricket Club!
I think a good many people would agree with this plan. I'm from South Shields in the North East of England. Until 1974 all areas south of the river Tyne were classed as County Durham while to the North was Northumberland. The urban areas considered Tyneside were separated off and amalgamated with the urban areas of Sunderland around the river Wear to form 'Tyne & Wear.' This is usually only used on postal addresses today because Tyne & Wear has been further broken up into North Tyneside, Newcastle, Gateshead, South Tyneside and Sunderland metropolitan borough council areas. The result is that I have grown up without an historical county of any sort to say I'm from, it may sound like small dice to some people but I see the pride others feel in saying they're from Yorkshire, Essex or elsewhere and the flags, crests, symbols and easily traceable regional history which go along with that. This is something we've never had and like hell do I want to get the crest of South Tyneside Metropolitan Borough Council tattooed on me!
Thanks for your comment! 👍
The mistake that was made in 1974 was conflating ‘counties’ and ‘admin zones’ and allowing the new admin zones to masquerade as ‘counties’ when they are no such thing.
The River Tyne is still the boundary between County Durham and Northumberland. South Shields is in County Durham, North Shields is Northumberland. The name of the local admin zone (who empties the bins/lights the streets etc) does not have a bearing on the traditional counties.
Admin zones are by their nature transitory - changing every few years as populations and local needs change.
The traditional counties, by contrast, are geographical and cultural areas dating back many centuries.
See Wikishire’s interactive map for more detail and precise boundaries of these and other counties: wikishire.co.uk/map/#South%20Shields@54.992,-1.43/centre=55.025,-1.503/zoom=12
@@RealCounties Well I can say that people from around South Tyneside have little affinity with County Durham. Newcastle is much closer than the actual City of Durham and for many football rivalry divides us even further, you're either for Newcastle or Sunderland. To make it more confusing County Durham was granted to the church centuries ago, hence it is known as the "Land of the Prince Bishops." While north of the Tyne, Northumberland has a Duke and Duchess who live in Alnwick while Newcastle was always under the sway of their own town Burgesses who levied taxes and fees to trade there.
A little caveat to add here, if I may. Whilst 'administrative counties' themselves are a fact, eg. the admin. structure with the affrontery to call itself 'Cambridgeshire county council', the technically and legally correct term is 'non-metropolitan county, or in some cases 'metropolitan county.' The true 'Administrative Counties' were those established by the Local Government Act, 1888, which actually used the term. However, the 1888 Administrative Counties were abolished in their entirety by the LGA 1972, hence the myth of ancient Counties having been abolished or altered.
In other words, there is no such thing as an Administrative County any more, even though the concept still exists by other terminology. I'm not trying to be pedantic, but in these debates it is important to be precise and correct in terminology; not least because even Britannica Online have fallen into this error!
That said, keep up your excellent work, which I wholeheartedly support.
Thanks for your support! 👍
Very interesting video, but I must ask if the narration is AI? It does sound that way to me.
Well said , good luck from Essex .
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The whole of the TEESSIDE area is a Administrative Mess, North Riding of Yorkshire and County Durham was my childhood. Then it became Teesside. Then shortly afterwards it became Cleveland. Then Cleveland was broken up into sub sets. As a Yorkshireman I agree Historic County should be the SOLE DEFINITION. Cricket has stood by the Historic County definition without causing confusion it is only politicians and civil servants interference that has produced a mess. Currently Berkshire are looking at reforming-ish BUT they all want to keep their jobs in the sub sets.
BEST OF LUCK but this needs publicity.
Teesside sort of is a good example of how the county borders are outdated. Previously, the border between County Durham and North Yorkshire followed the river Tees. However, that doesn’t reflect where the population or cultural boundaries are since the area industrialised around 120 years ago. The border with North Yorkshire should be further south up in the hills in some remote area and act as a boundary between a very different set of peoples. But it doesn't, it just runs through the middle of an area that is culturally part of the Northeast. I tend to associate Middlesbrough a lot more with Newcastle and Durham than I do with Scarborough or Harrogate!
Thanks for your comment and support! 👍
See Wikishire’s interactive map for more detail and precise boundaries of Durham and other counties: wikishire.co.uk/map/#County%20Durham/centre=54.727,-1.693/zoom=9
Thanks for your comment! 👍
Changes in population and local needs are the reason why local admin zones are transitory and councils and other administrative bodies change every few years. That is absolutely fine.
The traditional counties are not ‘outdated’ - their borders have not changed and the whole point of them is that they are geographical (an example of which you gave with the River Tees).
Geography is unchanging, therefore the traditional counties are unchanging.
Admin zones are transitory and so are frequently changing.
There is no reason why the two cannot co-exist. 😃
See Wikishire’s interactive map for more detail and precise boundaries of Durham and other counties: wikishire.co.uk/map/#County%20Durham/centre=54.727,-1.693/zoom=9
Well intentioned, perhaps.But, what is that awful noise behind the speaker?
We have now uploaded the video without background music: ruclips.net/video/8eocnXzvrvA/видео.htmlfeature=shared 👍
My life began in the Palatinate of County Durham. I was born in 1944.I was proud of my County and I was furious when the ghastly Tyne and Wear was thrust upon us and I still am. I really hoped that the new Mayor would be from Durham.
It looks very much as the area Mayor will be from Newcastle so The city of Sunderland will continue to be ignored as it has been for very many decades and planning for the area will continue to ignore our city and Durham City will also be ignored along with us together with County Durham.
Thanks for your comment! 👍
The County Palatine of Durham is a wonderful shire! See Wikishire’s interactive map for more detail and precise boundaries of this and other traditional counties: wikishire.co.uk/map/#County%20Durham/centre=54.727,-1.693/zoom=9
A look at the Republic of Ireland (for comparison purposes) might be interesting, as counties are still very important there. They're also heavily used by the most important sporting organisation on the island (in both jurisdictions): the GAA. Irish provinces, though, have no real equivalent in Britain.
Thanks for your suggestion! 👍
We always include the Republic of Ireland where possible, as the counties of the island of Ireland are as similar and important as those in Great Britain.
We will definitely look at a specific video about Ireland though… a very welcome suggestion! 😃
Northern Ireland is not a country. It is not even, despite BBC news wrongly calling it for decades a province. It is comprised of just 6 of the 9 counties of the province of Ulster, 1 of the 4 provinces of Ireland. P.S. The Irish President is officially (in our constitution) not President of the Republic of Ireland, he is termed President of Ireland
From my observations in England, it entirely depends where you are. Generally in the South, counties like the home counties or Essex are simply an area on the map, but are of little importance. In the North however, the counties are of much greater cultural importance, often to the degree that many would identify being from say, Yorkshire before England. I've also heard people of Cornwall refer to the English as a separate entity from them...
Very interesting observations! 👍
Yes, local affinities are often different in different areas. However, how people ‘feel’ does not affect geographical reality. 😃
That comes from the fact that those areas were the last within England to get anglicised. We have proof that Brythonic kingdoms within England had existed well into the 900s, and possibly even later. Even now, most Scousers come from either a Irish or Welsh background.
@WalesTheTrueBritons you can quite hear the Welsh influence in Scouser, it would be interesting if a Welsh speaker could confirm if any of the dialect spoken in Liverpool / Cheshire has any Welsh words borrowed?
@@marcom9103 thanks for your comment! 👍
Speaking with a Scouse accent is a fairly recent trend.
Up until the mid 19th century Liverpudlians spoke pretty much the same as the rest of Lancashire, and traces of the warm Lancashire sound can still be heard in the accent of older residents.
The Scouse accent, like much else in the city, owes its roots to Liverpool’s position as a port. The melting pot created by the influx of people from far and wide was the foundation of the distinctive Scouse sound.
The major influence comes from the influx of particularly Irish, but also Welsh, into the city.
The mixing of these different accents and dialects, joining with words and sayings picked up from global maritime arrivals, all fused together to create the unique Scouse sound.
Every tide brought ashore a new imported verb and many stuck becoming part of everyday language.
Bring back the historical Buckinghamshire pre 1974 county it’s been 50 years now when I born in this great historic country and just a few months after they moved the border under the 1972 act and now makes Buckinghamshire is much smaller than it’s original pre 1974 form.
Thanks for your comment! 👍
The 1974 changes were changes to admin zones only and did not affect the boundaries of the historic counties (even though people thought otherwise).
See wikishire’s interactive map for more detail and precise boundaries of the traditional county of Buckinghamshire: wikishire.co.uk/map/#Buckinghamshire/centre=51.828,-0.790/zoom=9
Surely the counties were first formed as administrative areas so why should we confuse matters more by "restoring" the historic ones and how far back in history should we gp especially in regards to Welsh and Scottish counties which in some cases are not as old as the English ones then there are areas like Hexhamshire which was regarded as a county in the middle ages not just a liberty and was arguably once part of County Durham. Plus would you consider changing England's borders with Wales and Scotland to reflect history?
Thanks for your comment! 👍
While each historic county may have originally been set up for some public purpose or other, long before the beginning of the nineteenth century it was their geographical and cultural identities that were paramount.
Our campaign is not about “going back in history,” it is about better celebrating the historic counties, which have existed for many centuries and continue to do so.
You may be confusing “historic” with “historical”.
Historic (which the counties are) means ”with a lot of history” - it does not mean “in the past” (that’s “historical”).
The only thing we aim to “restore” is the proper meaning of the word “county” in law - cultural and geographical subdivisions with no administrative function. 😃
Living in Bristol, the City and County of Bristol it is really annoying when ordering stuff online the county Avon comes up on my address when no such county exists. Any idea of removing Bristol's status as a county and replacing it with the city being split between Gloucestershire and Somerset would be completely unacceptable.
Thanks for your comment! 👍
Bristol stands on the boundary of Gloucestershire and Somerset.
Bristol received a royal charter in 1155 and was granted independence of the county authorities in 1373.
It, however, remained part of the geographical ‘host’ counties of Gloucestershire and Somerset.
That is true today, just as it always has been.
Many towns and cities straddle geographical counties - they always have and they always will. Bristol is one such example of many.
It’s not Monmouthshire, it’s Gwent! Gwent predates the English translation or renaming by about 700 years.
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Gwent was, between about the 6th and 11th centuries, one of the kingdoms or principalities of the Welsh, traditionally lying between the rivers Wye and Usk in what later became known as the Welsh Marches.
Gwent has not existed since the 11th century, whereas Monmouthshire (Sir Fynwy) has existed for a number of centuries and continues to do so. However, the arms attributed to the Kingdom of Gwent have become the pattern of the Flag of Monmouthshire. 🏴
We in Wales still call it Gwent, I haven’t heard anyone in Wales refer to it as Monmouthshire. And as for the Flag, The Fleur De-Lis are Norman and actually for Monmouthshire, it was adopted by Gwent. Not the other way around, as you stated yourself Gwent existed long before the Normans came to Britain, let alone Wales specifically. So why, or should I say HOW would they have a Norman flag? Before the Norman’s were even in Britain? Ah never mind, they are rhetorical questions. Thanks for responding anyway, a lot of people don’t even bother.
@@WalesTheTrueBritons you’re welcome - we love to engage with our audience and supporters. 👍
You may wish to take a look at the Monmouthshire Association - we suspect they may disagree with your premise that no one refers to it as Monmouthshire: monmouthshire-association.org.uk
Well, I am from South Wales originally and have never personally heard anyone refer to it as Monmouthshire, not in 30 odd years. And I must say, personally I prefer the original Native Name of Gwent.
@@WalesTheTrueBritons interesting - thanks so much for engaging! 😃
You suggest that there was no administrative function function of counties before the 19th century. That is not correct. The quarter sessions were not just courts they administered many other aspects of the county's life including ensuring highways were maintained, maintaining bridges, as well as overseeing the poor law. Before that the Sheriff in medieval times did literally rule the county on behalf of the King.
Are you connected with the Association of British Counties which seems to campaign for the same thing. Good on you.
Being born in Glos but being brought up in the City and County of Bristol, my loyalty was always divided between Glos., of which Bristol is part and Somerset as I lived south of the Avon in a suburb that was in Somerset until 1933!
Thanks for your comment! 👍
We are a separate organisation, but have very similar aims! South of the Avon is Somerset - correct!
See Wikishire’s interactive map for boundaries of Somerset and other traditional counties: wikishire.co.uk/map/#Somerset/centre=51.150,-2.878/zoom=9
Anyone watched YT Channel Map Men on the same subject, similar info but funnier, I so recommend.
We love Map Men! 😃
Whilst I totally sympathise with these ideas as a premise, it would split my town in half, and as such is completely pointless and will only create more confusion.
My town was already expanding into the neighbouring county before 1974, so that act of government actually fixed a weird legislative situation here, as I’m sure was similar in many other places. A return to historic counties, even if not from a legislative point of view, would still add a weird border, that may warrant signage. Areas would seem like they’re in two counties at once still.
Thanks for your comment! 👍
Our campaign takes no view on the boundaries of local admin zones (councils etc).
Our campaign is about better celebrating the historic counties - they haven’t gone anywhere after all.
Towns and local admin zones have always crossed county boundaries and will always continue to do so. That does not cause a problem and does not affect the geographical location of a particular town or admin zone. 😃
I was from West Hartlepool Co Durham, a place that no longer is on a map
Thanks for your comment - an interesting fact! 👍
See Wikishire’s interactive map for more detail and precise boundaries of County Durham and other counties: wikishire.co.uk/map/#County%20Durham/centre=54.727,-1.693/zoom=9
My favourites to visit are Devon Antrim and down
Three wonderful counties! 😃
@@RealCounties I also love Yorkshire where my dads family lives and my county is Lancashire. I live in an ancient place called Amounderness
@@Revoe_Lad Very interesting!
Did you know? 🤔
The name of Amounderness preceeds the organisation of hundreds and indeed Lancashire itself.
The Domesday Book in 1086 spells it Agemundrenessa.
The traditional 19th-century etymology is that the name derived from ac (oak) and mund (protection), "a ness or promontory sheltered by oaks".
@@RealCounties I knew it predates Lancashire and a lot of places round here have old Norse names
Cumbria looks a lot nicer rather than the exclaves of Lancashire
Thanks for your comment! 👍
In what way do you mean? 🤔
Re Wessex: Where is Wessex today? What counties make up the former Kingdom of Wessex? Given that Wessex is the Saxon Kingdom that first ruled over most of the other Saxon and Anglic Kingdoms and then took on the Danes, to end up creating the Kingdom of the Angles, later England, why then are today the defeated Kingdoms of Essex und Sussex still rememberd through the names of counties, and previously also Middlesex (has that even been a thing, a Kngdom of its own?), while Wessex does not appear/exist at all - eradicated from the map (with a supposed historic view)?
Thanks for your question! 👍
The Kingdom of Wessex or Kingdom of the West Saxons (Old English: Westseaxna rice) was an Anglo-Saxon kingdom in the south of Great Britain enduring from its foundation in the early 6th century until the emergence of a united English state under the Wessex dynasty in the 10th century.
Wessex was created in the south-west, its capital at Winchester (Hampshire) and reaching westward to Devon and eventually to include Cornwall. Its northern boundary was the River Thames, though not for all of its history, as Dorchester on Thames belonged to Wessex for much of its history.
Wessex eventually became the most powerful of the kingdoms of the English, its later kings recognised overlords by all the kings of Britain, the English and the Britons, and it was they who united England into one kingdom.
In the century after unification, the identity of Wessex was not forgotten and after Canute the Great's conquest of 1016, Wessex became one of the great regional earldoms Canute created, and so it remained from 1020 to 1066.
After 1066, the Normans dissolved the large English earldoms and Wessex was no more.
The people of Wessex were not Saxon, but came from the Gwiccae people, more closely linked to the Welsh and maybe the Irish.
Modern genetics of the population of Wessex support that to a degree, the closer to Cornwall you get the higher the percentage of Celtic to Germanic DNA, even as far as Somerset and parts of Gloucestershire have significant portions of Celtic DNA although more Germanic than Celtic and certainly more Celtic than most of modern England
@@WinterDomeFly thanks for your comment - very interesting indeed! 👍
@@RealCounties That doesn't answer my question, as to why Wessex isn't commemorated by the name of a County, whereas the others - that had been taken over, dissolved, or whatever, by Wessex - are? Wouldn't you concur, that the historical importance of Wessex merited its recognition in the name of a county? Also: What about Middlesex? That was a historic county, but had it ever been an entity of its own, had it ever been a Kingdom of its own?
More so: What is/was the significance of Middelsex, Essex and Sussex over Wessex, that they three had counties named after them, whereas big and powerful and leading Wessex had not?
Nah I prefer the current ceremonial counties. So we don't have Lancashire being two separate pieces and other such nonsense.
Thanks for your comment! 👍
Lancashire is actually not separate pieces, although it may look that way on a map.
The two parts, Lancashire North of the Sands and Lancashire South of the Sands, are united by the sands of Morecambe Bay.
An ancient path joins the two parts of the county, but the sands are treacherous and one must follow the King’s Guide to the Sands, who is appointed for this purpose. 😃
Difficult to listen to with that dreadful music!
We have now uploaded the video without background music: ruclips.net/video/8eocnXzvrvA/видео.htmlfeature=shared 👍
That is NOT the Northern Irish flag…it is the St.Patrick saltire. Come on now!
Thanks for your comment!
Unfortunately, Northern Ireland does not have an official flag, hence our dilemma.
We have used the Ulster flag in the past but Northern Ireland is not the same thing as Ulster - and the Ulster banner has no official status.
The only official flag for NI is the Union Flag.
(And St Patrick's saltire is at least part of the Union Flag.)
What would your suggestion be? 🤔
@@RealCounties you are right and it is a delicate matter. The union banner is used for NI sport so I guess I would go with that. As we know St Patrick was not Irish and that is another conversation of course.
@@brendanctogher yes, indeed. 👍
We always try to tell the story of the counties of England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales, their history and cultural importance without straying into other matters which are not part of our remit or objectives.
We are aware that there are sensitivities, particularly in Northern Ireland and on the island of Ireland, and we always aim to promote and convey the stories of the counties with due impartiality, while acknowledging state and governmental realities where necessary.
This is an interesting video and is campaigning for a laudable aim, but you lost me when you mentioned 'Brecknockshire'. Either call it Brycheiniog, which is what that awful English name has b**tardised or just call it Breconshire. Regardless Sir Faldwyn, Sir Faesyfed and Sir Frycheiniog Are far too small to be Admin zones as you put it. They combine, as you know to form, Powys which has a population of just 133,600. Please don't complicate matters in a part of Cymru/Wales which works well. Powys registered voters elects 68 councillors who on many matters then sit on boards which cover the historic counties, but come together as a full council on such matters budgetary, planning and licensing. Two sets of councillors for the price of one. This model should be adopted in all rural, mainly rural or semi urban/ semi rural admin zones. Cymru's Local Government is bloated in numbers and admin. Most of those problems stem from having top level admin zones for populations of fewer than a hundred thousand people. We don't need to get rid of some, only to replace them with others. We need to remove all of them, while allowing Districts, Boroughs and towns to continue to have boards who run most of their local matters made up of their elected admin zone councillors.
Thanks for your comment! 👍
We always use Welsh names when focusing specifically on Wales only and we use Welsh in other areas too as we try to include the language as much as possible. 🏴
Regarding admin zones, we have no opinion on the geographical reach of them and specifically do *not* wish the historic counties to be used as a basis of local administration (that is how we got into the current mess in the first place).
We simply wish to see the traditional, geographical counties to be just that - geographical and cultural areas unrelated to any form of local admin.
@@RealCounties Thank you for the reply. You have not responded to my first and central point, that is that the b**tardised anglicised form of Brycheiniog shouldn't. It's offensive and quiet frankly racist. It is no better than complaining that the name of the mountain range that includes the highest mountain in Southern Britain has been changed, it hasn't! It's simply that it's original name of Eryri, and Yr Wyddfa the name of the highest mountain in Southern Britain, are being prioritised over colonial names.
@@owainmorgan3897 thanks for your comment! 👍
As we said, we always include Welsh names whenever we can. 🏴
See Wikishire’s page on Brecknockshire/Breconshire/Sir Frycheiniog/Brycheiniog for more detail on this wonderful Welsh county: wikishire.co.uk/wiki/Brecknockshire
BRING BACK HEXHAMSHIRE!
Thanks for your comment! 👍
Hexhamshire is an area of southern Northumberland around the town of Hexham. It was in origin a liberty belonging to the Archbishop of York, which liberty was abolished in 1572.
Our campaign is not about ‘bringing back’ anything - but celebrating the historic counties that have existed for many centuries and *continue* to exist. 😃
Cornwall was never a shire and is both an historical county and Duchy. Its border with the rest of England is sacrosanct!
Thanks for your comment! 👍
Yes, Cornwall is an historic county (shire is simply a different word meaning county).
I really can't feel any energy for this. I don't value those old arrangements, except as history, what I value is practical solutions that help people better in a time of so many pressures and deprivations. I understand you are not trying to touch the administrative areas presently called counties, but you give no alternative for what to call them. Council, region, zone, district, area are all either being used for something else specific or are too general and vague. The French 'département' could be borrowed but probably not very popularly and 'department' already has specific meanings too. All in all it seems a pointless cause. There's nothing wrong with recognising where those old county boundaries were, but what practical role do they play in 2024?
Thanks for your comment! 👍
The traditional counties are not ‘old arrangements’. They are also not ‘solutions’ for people in terms of ‘pressures’ or ‘deprivations’. There is no practical ‘role’ except that they are living and breathing geographical and cultural subdivisions of England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales, just as they have been for many centuries already. 🇬🇧
@@RealCounties Right... so where are they? What physical reality is there to them? The administrative counties are marked by boundary signs. Different councils have different policies and hence different decisions and actions and this makes a difference to what happens in their respective areas. What difference do the traditional counties make? What are they doing in people's lives? How are they living and breathing? And you still haven't provided an alternative to the word 'county' for the administrative areas.
Let's take the exclaves, and the claim of cultural subdivisions. Is there really some sharp difference in culture over the boundaries of these tiny exclaves of traditional counties which are no longer present in present-day administrative counties? Or is the culture pretty much the same all the way through because these traditional counties don't make any difference. There is obviously great cultural variation over the country, but its subsections don't follow county lines, whether traditional, administrative or ceremonial.
How to say you're from the Southeast, without saying you're from the Southeast 😂
@@MatthewMcVeagh thanks for your comments! 👍
There are plenty boundary signs for the traditional counties, if that’s what you want to see. Watching this video might help with the difference between admin zones and counties.
The traditional counties are not about ‘making a difference’ in people’s lives - they are about geography (as they have been for many centuries).
Admin zones have no need to use the term ‘county’ (as they aren’t counties) - again, this is covered in this video. Most places in the UK don’t have an ‘administrative county’ anyway (as explained in the video).
Regarding exclaves, enclaves and detached parts - they are also explained in this video. Enjoy watching! 😃
@@marcom9103 Me? I'm from the East Midlands.
You wrote : 'The traditional counties of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are 92 historic subdivisions of the United Kingdom.' ?????
Just so you are aware - because too many in England still are not - that the 6 counties in the north of ireland are 6 of the 9 counties of the province of Ulster - one of Ireland's 4 provinces. Though presently stuck in the political system of the uk & for contentious historical reasons - they ARE counties of Ireland, just as Cork or Kerry or Dublin or Donegal are
What you refer to as 'northern Ireland,' is not really a 'country' ...as most understand that term.
Bear in mind also, presently, 4 of those northern counties are predominantly nationalist, ie Irish not British, and most there have Irish passports, and most don't see themselves as 'British' anyway, plus, even the largest political party in the north, Sinn Féin, does NOT even recognise or 'sit' at Westminster and so and on etc etc
I think before you make any more such like presentations...you best travel around Ireland, Nth, Sth East & West...the 32 counties. and then you will get a very different perspective about and of Britain and the UK
Thanks for your comment! 👍
Yes, the four provinces of Ireland feature in this video - and we often highlight the counties of Ireland as a whole when appropriate.
See Wikishire’s interactive map for more detail and precise boundaries of the counties of the island of Ireland: wikishire.co.uk/map/#/centre=53.590,-7.731/zoom=7
@@RealCounties Thanks for reply
I can tell you...any Irish person would wryly smile at the idea of including the provinces of Ireland in a presentation on UK counties-regions etc. The 4 provinces of Ireland are in a different country...nothing to do with the UK, ( (bar those 6 counties in Ulster, which a growing number, esp those under 30yrs, & post-Brexit would dispute being added in. ) It's like France adding bits of Belgium or Germany parts of Austra!!
In my late 60's, & as I've said, I've met far too many lovely people from England who still, in 2024, have some vague imagination that Ireland is, a sort-of semi-detached part of the UK. ...like a region of it...Mon Dieu!! One good thing about Brexit is that I've noticed contacts and friends there are finally waking up to the reality that Ireland is an EU nation and increasingly the whole
island is a very different place.
Yes - Ireland is a very different place to England, Scotland and Wales - and we love every one of the thirty-two Irish counties, regardless of whether they are the six in the United Kingdom or the twenty-six in the Republic of Ireland! 😃 🇮🇪 🇬🇧 😃
What a pathetically pointless campaign
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Anyone else feels immoral to have British counties in Ireland, it's a throwback to colonisers days?
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The counties of Ireland are arguably more significant and celebrated than those of England, Scotland and Wales.
See Wikishire’s interactive map for more detail and precise boundaries of the counties of Ireland: wikishire.co.uk/map/#/centre=53.590,-7.731/zoom=7
It’s all Ulster to me
@@Dorsetpoole what does that mean? 3 ulster counties are in the Republic 6 are part of the uk
get over it
Why?
That would be HATE SPEECH in Scotland?
Not sure to what you refer, but thanks for your comment! 👍