How much can a zombie gunpowder army take on?
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- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2022
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Yeah I want to see cost effective armies like this.
This particular stack can be MUCH better. Early game, cost effective stacks are much more interesting.
Cost effective armies:
step 1: look up the low tier missile unit of a faction
Step 2: done
How strong it is is largely decided by if there is a missile boosting hero, and how competent the boosting skills are. If you aren't skilled enough to make missile only work, take a few infantry just to be sure.
You mean Coast effective amirite
You mean crapstacks I love those!
Yeah. Some of the other doomstacks basically require you to already be so strong you can't be opposed in order to even build them. Cool, but not that useful.
Would actually like to see more stuff like this, Like a rating your crapstack (early game army comps)
Isnt that Okoii specialty doing tve crapstack video ?
@@dickysatria7268 to a degree, I'd say that they are more comedic than educational.
Ok, today we have a stack of (insert tier 1 archer type unit here)
I think legend has done a couple of videos like that before. But was a while ago.
10:06
Legend: How's Luthor doing?
Luthor Harkon: Good!
11:22
Legend: There's so many of them blobbed up there
Luthor Harkon: Indeed!
It seems Legend is one of the voices in Luthor Harkon's head.
One could argue that Luthor is the only character in the game who is able to hear what is beyond the 4th wall and all his personalities are actually just WH players :D
LOL that killed me
Marius Leitdorf and Luthor talking to Legend and each other confirmed
Early game doom-stacks that utilize specific tactics would be cool (as opposed to hamfisting it)
I would like to see more doomstacks that are possible to make without spending hundreds of turns just for the gimmick
Amen
I agree, but I also thought this was going to be a turn ~30 rate your doomstack.
I wish people would stop saying "doomstack" when its just 20 units, Doomstacks absolutely roll through cammpaigns, this isn't a doomstack.
yup, the min-maxed hero spam got way out of hand
@@SomePeon Heroes can be doomstacked, just stacks of archers is yawn. Yeah I get it, Sisters of avelorn good, maybe uniquely doomstackable.
Oh Christ, that carnosaur got completely deleted at 11:34
carNOTsaur :D
the damage is awesome. The only issue is how slow they are to setting up. If you tell a gunnery mob to shoot another target they take like 6 to 10 second until they finally reposition, aim and shoot.
@@rumplstiltztinkerstein yeah in wh3 it is especially frustrating
regarding the last question: i prefer this kind of doomstacks. All those turn 250 or whatever doomstacks with tons of buffs which are weird to get, and then most likely sword of khaine for good measure are all pretty the same. At that point in the game you can probably do whatever you want anyway. This kind of doomstacks are more interesting to watch, than 19 unkillable units blobbed in a center of fodder.
Late-game theory-crafted armies being done where they're min-maxed seem, to me, much more interesting to "think about having" and "work towards having" if just for the sake of doing something special, but then not nearly as interesting once you "do" have it. Whereas knowing some really nice, early-on doom/crapstacks seem much more helpful and intuitive to know about.
I actually prefer "doomstacks" that don't take over 100 turns and a whole lot of effort to create and you can only get one of them. I'm mostly done with my campaigns before turn 100 anyway and a solid faction leader stack with high experience units usually can handle most things anyway.
exactly the same opinion as me mate! when i get to the point of a good mid tier doomstack like this and i can easily steam roll most battles im normally done so these types of videos is more relatable
you can only make one of these doomstacks anyways. They are relying on the tech ancilliaries to boost the army.
Skink Javelins and chameleon skinks doomstacks
@@fidgetwidget9116 Oxyotl is a beast
For sure interested in Early Armies over late actual doomstacks.
Ehhh this wasn't constructed too well imo. One gunnery wight is sufficient, then I would have at least one if not two vampire heroes for healing and - more importantly - summons. Use it like a skaven weapons team doomstack.
Also I think there were too many handcannons. I'd have some cannons or mortars or even Deck Gunners for long range firepower, rather than queen bess as they keep dodging it. Longer ranged factions will shred your gunnery mobs and there's not much you can do about it.
That's exactly how I ran my non-necrofex stacks when I played Vampirates in WH2. Hits like ratling guns for a fraction of the cost.
Yep, you are right, there is a doom stack like this in WH2 and it should work for WH3, but here it was messed up.
Here is the WH2 doomstack:
6 gunners, 6 mortars, 1 unmounted gunner wright, 2 vampire heroes, 4 necrofexes, 1 vamp lord.
The army can deal with sieges and uneven terrain better than all necrofexes doomstack, but struggles against scaven more.
All your armies like this and you are unstoppable and it is 30-50% cheaper compared to all necrofexes armies.
The idea is this.
Your gunners at the back while 4 necrofexes on the front just in range of the gunners so they can shoot anything that hits the legs of the nexrofexes but not in front of the nexrofexes to avoid friendly fire.
More than 6 gunners, you will not find good positions to put them on most maps and their role is to kill heros and single entities which they do as well as rattling guns.
Before the enemy reaches the necrofexes you have summons from vamp hero and lords while nexcrofexes and mortars shred the enemy blocked by summons.
Vamps heal necrofexes if need be, right after they summon the mob, necrofex retreat to heal while mob holds the line.
Over-casted heal on 4 necrofexes in worst cases.
Mortars are very very accurate once they reach their gold tiers and will kill most of the enemy if blocked by summons.
This is an undefeated doomstack when I use it, only scaven with summons on the mortars are a bit of a pain when 4 vs 1 armies, but I would rather have more armies to deal with scaven then less but stronger.
@@jeffvella9765 So he swirtched the mortars for handcannons because mortars seem to suck in WHIII
@@kodan7879 I do not know wh3 since I have not played it, but the doom stack does not work if you switch the mortars since they are killing 1/2 the army before anything touches the necrofexes on hardest of battles. In most cases vs infantry based armies nothing even gets close to the necrofexes and the gunners never even fire a shot.
Their range is what makes them so powerful.
Mortars suck at low tier because they are not accurate, maybe the guy did not wait to get them to gold tier before dismissing them?
Eventually you can recruit mortars at gold tier too.
@@jeffvella9765 AI dodges mortar fire in WH3
Definitely interested in seeing cheaper/early game armies, more realistic for me to use those for most of the game. For a significant part of the game I can't get 19 heros, or afford 19 tier 5 units, but still want to make sure I am going for the most efficient power/cost composition for that faction. I enjoy seeing the fun overpowered stuff in action, but it isn't obtainable when I need it. Maybe do a separate series for these types of armies, like a "rate your turn 20 army", or a "rate your crapstack".
11:32 Jesus all those guns firing at once, nice.
I love seeing this kind of army being rated! Totally totally here for this. Great length of video, too.
I like to also see these kinds of compositions evaluated, for variety and to keep things fresh. Of course, it'd be nice to get an idea on how much effort it was to create these doomstacks (even for the very high performing ones), f.ex. from the creators with their admissions.
I agree with your rating. I like videos like this where the stacks not top tier because I like hearing your thoughts on what doesn’t work as much as what does.
Absolutely loved seeing this! Not your usual doomstack, makes it interesting.
Would totally tune in for budget more stack vids! I loved your sigvald's horse masters stack and the stalking gobbo stabbers stack in WH2
I know this is most comments but really like this style of army comp videos. 10/10 video even though the stack didn’t get a 10. Please continue with armies like this
I'd rather see something like this than an army that takes 300 turns to put together. This is useful to me, this is something that I can apply in my campaigns. The uber doomstacks I will probably never use.
Me and a friend played Wh2 with one of us as Vampire coast, The trick is to place every other with long range and short range to maximise damage output. A bit of a miss to place so many Hand cannons in the back line, if you see comparatively how much ammo they have to what the rifle units have. I would say this is an early Doomstack if you have played vampire coast before. Hand cannons vs Cavalry is the best point of a battle.... They die at the first charge.
6/10 is a good rating. I would love to see more Low tier doom stacks, to learn what units are a good to have for each faction early game.
Yeah. Watching him put half his firepower at the back and leave it idle the entire battle, waste his wight buffs, and refuse to fight in the forest.... Guns actually work pretty well in trees, and putting Luther in there to spot would have worked fine. He didn't use his buffs much either.
Can't be good at every faction tbh.
I think armies like this are more interesting to watch, because the campaigns, the majority of people and also myself are playing, are not long enough to build the expensive doomstacks shown in the other videos.
Gunnery mobs are painful in Immortal Empires. Almost all of the battles are siege battles. And gunneries can't hit targets on the wall. Gunneries are also very slow when it comes to mobilizing in close quarters. Plus there's the bug where soldiers simply don't shoot when there's an ally slightly in front of them. I just use lots of depth guards and crabs now.
Also keen to see more videos about crap stacks and/or min-maxed early game armies ❤
I really like this kind of stack, it’s doable in any campaign. While not effective in a lot situations like you said, I like seeing it used and discussed.
Midgame builds are prett neat to see. Thanks for the showcase.
I like a variety. So if you do happen to see this just make sure not to hardline on anything please! Appreciate the content as always, you’re a great creator!
It did look more like a “rate my army composition” video..
and yeah, as you yourself insinuate, it does get a bit boring to only see the 1-unit spams and all that jazz, that’ll handle any situation without any damage.
So I’d definitely like to see more “rate my army comp.”-videos also.
(Yes it needed some guys to summon a frontline, Skaven style)
Variety is the spice of life! This was good
Practical early-to-mid game army sounds interesting. Even Better with non-legendary Lord, because these will be the majority of the expansion force
Immediatly my favorite Rating your Doomstack episode. The fact I have tried making this "crapstack" and lost over and over similar battles is engaging for me. A lot. Even I know I would not be able the battles I saw hence I saw my need for micro improving when I saw you. The fact is, that I find not useful for my improvement in WH3 to know about the nunaces of real stacks at turn 100+. If it is a 9ish above doonmstack I instantly know this is not gonna be helpful for my game experience, and sometimes I skip those. So this is the kind of useful crapstasck that, after wathcing the video makes me want to logging the game and start Harkon camapig straight away to test it and enjoy the pew pew. Love id and will not ever skip any oh those if you continue doing it. Also would love to learn Hero Crapstacks thar are good only for, say the first 40 turns in the campaign. As apposed to real Hero DS' on turn 150. Go for it Legend! PS: Srry English not my 1st language
I like seeing a mix of super high 10/10s that I can aim to build but also this kind of stuff as more of a rate my build
This is way more realistic than all the 10/10 doom stacks that take forever to make
lore of vampires lord, hero, 4 mortars(1 cannon maybe) and rest hangunners. the most cost effective army of Vampirates
11:35 that poor carnosaur
Yeah, I would love to see stuf like this. And like "early turn doomstacks" like what unit you can spamm in early turns to get through to lategame.
Much rather see early /effective armies AND how to use them effectively in tough spots for different races. That is what's nice about saving your disaster battles. Also, the motivation to watch a live stream is to learn about how you squeeze the most out of that faction, especially in the early game on the hardest difficulty. However, watching 8 hours of Siege battles to get a couple of gems of knowledge isn't very fun. So, videos that can give a few gems of knowledge in 20 minutes is appreciated.
"How's Luthor doing?"
"GOOOOOD."
Lmao amazing timing.
I think this is an interesting sort of mix of both a saving your disaster battle and a doomstack. I guess I'd say that what i would enjoy seeing more of is "a difficult battle situation that is won by utilizing more bread and butter units in cost efficient or unusual ways." I think it would challenge people to be more inventive.
I love these kinds of stacks. Crapstacks are my favorite. Cheap but highly effective :)
I think it's a nice change to see these type of armies as well. 6/10 still feels a bit generous despite me loving this army composition
Seems like an odd decision to put the shotgun hand cannons behind your rifles. It certainly would have helped you keep enemies back from your main firing line.
it was about protecting the more valuable units. losing a handgun is no big deal, but losing a handcannon is. we had no frontline so i knew we were going to get hit at the front.
I thought so as well, if I had to guess I think the idea was to have the long-range units butter the enemy up as they charge in, and then when the first units get into range ALL the lower-range hand cannons focus it down with auto targeting since there are only 1 or 2 targets available all of a sudden. This is just a guess though. It did work a lot better than I thought it was going to I must admit.
I usually screen with handcannons myself, usually half as many though. I consider them expendable like zombies.
@@LegendofTotalWar and that is why you're the legend of total war.
Though I never bother with handcannons myself; especially when you look at the distribution of kills, handgunners do so much more work.
@@sir_vix i wonder if the fact that handguns were shooting from the beginning and handcannons were sitting back for the most part had something to do with those results
To answer your question Legend, I think these videos have value namely because for newer players knowing what to recruit & how to use early game armies means that they get a more solid foundation in the start of their campaign -> less catastrophic/stressful mid to late campaigns. Granted, those are a lot more rare now given how much easier TWW3 is on the average.
As for this stack: it *needs* at least 1, ideally 2 or 3 Lore of Vampire heroes to work (which is rough for Vampirates given their hero capacity issues in vanilla TWW) for healing, resurrecting dead entities, and chaff summons. I'd also probably throw in a few deck gunners as well for the range and single entity sniping potential (namely for mages with vortex spells and dinos).
10:06 "How is Luthor doing?" "GOOD!"
More stuff like this in addition to the OP stuff please, meme armies, crapstacks and anything else that would not look great on paper but actually works.
Vargheists revenge is bugged i think. It does double the damage of wind of death. They changed the aoe damage and reduced the wind spells by about 50%, but vargheists still has the old damage, and deletes units.
Vapirates were definitly last on their list as its filled with bugs. You cant move in ambush stance for example.
Stuff like this is more relatable, and also interesting as if you can actually pull this off or was that army a mistake - not gonna lie, it kept me on my toes, opposite to the usual stuff where I tend to fall asleep, as nothing is happening.
I do want to see more doom stacks like this too, or ones with more diverse army composition.
The handgun zombie pirates are amazing. They do so much damage and have so many units in a group that it’s insane. I regularly get 10-20K damage with them in a single battle.
gotta get that range to 211 when the event is active plus some gunnery wight buffs and yes they definitely melt.
saving you disaster doomstack. a classic.
Saving your doomedstack is my favourite type of vid.
I'd like to see more like this as well. With the super late game doom stacks and one man doom stacks there is very little to see what the progression of force composition is before getting there. I'd like to see more intermediate armies and how they handle campaign situations. Like, I dunno just as an example, when on turn 80 as Greasus all four of your friendly trade neighbors break treaty and invade you at the same time forcing you to fight all over your empire with only 3-4 armies until skarsnik joins in just when your winning, 15 turns before the greatest Waagh event kicks off...
Seems pretty decent as an early game cost effective doomstack. Maybe drop the Queen Bess for a lore of vampire hero and then use the Queen Bess in an army with a frontline that has an easier time protecting the Bess so it can really output its damage. It's either that or maybe a lore of vampire lord with this doomstack and 1 extra lore of vampire hero and then a gunnary wight -- or replace the wight with another damage magic lore for when they blob around summons.
Awesome video Legend, I'd love to see more early game doomstacks or cost effective armies.
I see most doomstack armies and think "The game is over when I can build this" but this is actually how me and my friend play in our co-op campaigns.
We just got to the endgame crisis in an "empire/skaven modern military playthrough" now versus dwarf endgame crisis. They're going to have to deal with his armies of just warplock jezails/ratling gunners and steam tank frontline and for me, mass hellstorm rockets + tanks and warpfire throwers for frontline versus slow dwarves.
Favorite battle so far was when we sat in ambush stance outside of one of the dwarven capitols and he ambushed one with a deathglobe bombardier + plagueclaw catapult 50/50 army. Deathglobe bombardiers wiped out about half of their army in the first volley.
I much prefer stacks like those. They are at least easily replicable if we fancy it. The other ones at 9+ are usually vey end game things we have little chance to see. Kinda like the one man doomstacks that require 90% ward save or something and hunting half the LL in ie.
Great video. I like this kind of "doom stack" more because it's more obtainable to me. This is something I could easily do without dedicating my whole game to building it.
It’s fun to see the 10/10, spend 300 turns to trait farm and whatever doom stacks, but it’s more informative and useful to see armies like this that could actually have a chance to make a significant difference in someone’s campaign, do both!
Yeah. Like some others are saying. More cost effective army compositions would be fun to see. A series of the best for each faction.
And I don't remember most of the doomstacks you have rated so a tier list for the best doomstacks could be fun.
definitely enjoyed seeing a "doomstack" that was from earlier in the campaign but much easier to build. don't get me wrong, i do love the 10/10 doomstacks, because it is fun to see how creative players can be building the epic stuff, but throwing in one of these every now and then, sort of a bargain bin doomstack, would be great. appreciate you. cheers.
I would like to see these types of early-mid game stacks rather than a single unit doomstack with the Sword of Khaine for instance. These feel more achievable when playing a campaign rather than a turn 160 doomstack.
Was actually pretty inspiring army , felt like it was nice to use , was missing key components , a frontline and a vampire could save this so much! but was 100% not complete.
that carnosaur at 11:32 gets absolutely deleted and i love it
Would love to see more crapstack videos. The doomstack ones become abit tedious with them usually being unkillable / my toddler could win the battle
More early game army comp ratings would be good to see for sure.
I agree with Legend that it's not a doomstack, but maybe a new type of vid on cost effective or good non-legendary lord armies. The issue I always have mid-game is quick, effective armies led by my non-legendary lord before i've managed to sweep up all the broken items. Knowing how to build at that like, T60-100 spot without Sword of Khaine and all Tier 5 would be useful.
This is good. I'd love to learn to use more early game armies!
That looked like a saving a disaster battle.
Yeah, with crapstacks being meta, they deserve their own rating system. I think this is probably about an 8 crapstack as it's decently reproducible and cost effective but struggles with a lot of the maps it would be used on.
Maybe my definition of "doomstack" is wrong but I didn't think that would even qualify as a doomstack for a couple of reasons:
Too much variety in army composition (all 1 unit with a lord and supporting heroes)
Can't use it foolishly/inefficiently and still win
That said, more like this please. Late-game doomstacks are fun to watch but this is something those of us who aren't Total Hammer gods can learn from :)
Dunno . . . maybe do a series or two limiting the turn number? Up to Turn 20 cheapstacks and up to Turn 50 cheapstacks? Of course, my Turn 50 probably looks like your Turn 10 :P
I personally enjoy watching the struggle.
One thing I actually would like to see is disaster situations with popular doomstack. For instance fot Katarin ice guard doomstack is great due to low upkeep and T4 access to the spear variant in Kislev, but I'm very scared about doing the quest battle in which you start in an ambush. Other than that specifically designed doomstack like the snow leapord stack was one of my favorites as well.
I find the framework of early-stack, mid-stack, late-stack, and doom-stack to be compelling. E.g. Some armies are very effective - for a turn 10 army.
interesting concept of a doomstack, I liked this video, is different from the 1 unit stacks.
Legend: I don’t approve
Subscribers: we want more
Yeah, I would like to see early/mid game doomstacks as well
A combination of both would be cool
I'd like to see more Crap stack or early game situational stacks. Early game turn 10-30 is like a turning point in Legendary difficulty and and we will squeeze everything we can to get through and people always have many interesting ideas.
I like this new disaster battle concept
Early game ´´Doomstacks´´ would be a fine new addition to this series
I've done this with cathay, iron hails in place of hand cannons, and crane gunners in place of handgunners. It is super great for neturing north of the wall and mopping up the kurgan invaders.
But I definitely feel like cathay has more overall buffs thwy can stack up on their range troops.
Rate-saveing your doom-saster, yes-yes!
Everytime I see Legend + Luthor Harkon = Massive or Interesting Battle
That Carnosaur got vaporised.
a fun thing to do when playing coast : nehek and CoUD replenish ammo, if they can no longer replenish hp/entities on a unit, including arty and Necrofex, easily one passive to fully refill the colossus. heres to hoping ca doesnt go overzealous in 'fixing' it, i like how coast play :D
Yeah, I honestly find some of these creative/cost effective ones more interesting. 10/10s are funny and cool but also, y'know, foregone conclusions and begin to blend together after a while.
I quite like the idea of ratings of lesser stacks. Perhaps with an eye to earlier game or avoiding opportunity cost.
Maybe something along the lines of "rating your discountstack?". Doesn't need to be about money only, maybe factors like how much do you need to sacrifice other aspects of your campaign to get it/how fast can you get it?
Big strong endgame armies are cool and all, but every army exists in a context. The Grande Armée was exceptional for its time, but would have folded like fresh laundry in the early 20th century. I want to hear of armies that can thrive in other ecosystems than rolling through infinite endgame stacks now.
Wouldn't mix and match, just go with only 1 type of unit, usually i completely ignore the handcannons. 7/10 from me. Any doomstack is interesting in some way. Keep em coming.
i like this type of early game stacks.
I would like to see similar stacks. Things you can make in early-mid game to give inspiration for my own gameplay. Doomstacks are fun to watch, but they are usually late end game stacks, especially in WH3.
I would say even 6 out of 10 is pretty generous if this is to be taken as a doomstack. As you said, if the AI just rushed straight at you then you are losing every time, surely the definition of a doomstack is that there is no chance you can lose whatever the situation is
I think in an earlier video he mentioned 7/10 to be the cut off to count as a valid doomstack, so 6/10 says its close but not quite a doomstack
I agree. Seems far too high to me. Magic, abilities, and unbelievably bad AI won that game. Maybe the ammo balance of power from the army helped with army losses and the army did okay (I use a ton of hand gunners too when playing vampirates). But even as a standard army, it wasn't well designed. Way too much short range, no holding power, no healing, one gunnery would be totally fine there, etc.
That said, I'd love to see more varied armies being reviewed.
i use this kind of stack my whole campaign and the ai never really does that
This is certanly More interesting to watch than t5 stomping everything, Maybe Rename it to rate your Army, so you can Show some Mixed Armys as Well ?😅
Early/mid game doom stacks sounds great.
Early game stuff is the most interesting.
Sure, I can slam down a 90 ward save level 50 lord, but the campaign investment to get to that stage is pretty rare for me. I spend more time with spearmen and archers than loremasters and sisters.
What i would really apreciated here(since you do that Sometimes Legend) would an "assesment" of "what buffs are missing, terms of tech, Lord/Hero Buffs " and so on and a roughtly assesment on how good this army could be with it or what it would take to get it higher, and so on.....
While a lot 10/10 Doom Stacks are really fun to watch, lets be honest, most of them are Not Practical for 80% of The Game or rather they only become Really Usefull if you Play 150Turns +.... Most Doomstacks also just got send as late in the Game in which Ppl got 20 Provinces or more.....
For Example A Skaven Weapon Team is a perfect example for a 9/10~10/10 Doomstack even if freshly Recruitet on Turn 30, while a complete Buffed perfected Ikkit Claw Weapon Team with all Buffs, all Tech, all Lord Traits and so on, basicly is out of the Scale as an 11/10 but its an army you will moste likely not get to use before turn 120 or so.
Definitywnie interesting to see doomstacks that require s little bit more brainpower, maybe an empire gunpowder doomstack or something of this sort not just a span of one unit and a headfirst charge into the enemy
Legion the gunnery wraith +60 aim and faster reload is used on queen bess, their ammo becomes a homming projectile, that is how you use those
Rate-Save your disaster doomstack! Yes-yes!
Doomstack or not, I find this army more appealing than the braindead necrofex colossus/monster spamming
It's the Vampire Coast afterall, the main bulk of your army should be zombie pirates
Yes. More videos like this.
Sometimes its the friendly fire that is hurting harkon the most
I do like crapstacks, or lower tier doomstacks that don’t require the best of the best or save scumming to get the best traits.