Why you SHOULDN'T freak out over KILL TEAM
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
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Kill Team 2023 is going to be rad 🤘
With where Kill Team is sitting right now, I think it's going to be a very strong year for the game, and I think it means good things to come from GW in the future as well. What do you think?
Battle Brothers Tabletop is a dude in a room trying his best. More cool videos are on the way, and hopefully will be coming out weekly. Working on some ways to get more consistent with uploads, so thanks for hanging around and supporting. You folks are dope.
#killteam #warhammer40k #gamesworkshop
I think people aren't freaking out enough about the beastmen. Beastmen are so overpowered that my dad went out for the Gallowfall box and never came back.
This isn't just good kill team advice, this is good life advice. Bravo, sir
I can't hear the Beastman complaints over "SPACE DWARF WITH A MINIGUN" echoing in my head.
Omg Ben is the Marcus auralious of kill team. He's a 40k stoic. Keep it up Jason fauxmoa
New best comment ❤️
Yes. Let's all have fun people!
Wise words 🙌
At first "oh no they're broken" then its "oh well its not like anyone actually got a box..."
Fantastic video my dude, love hearing you talk about Kill Team, which you like
i do be liking it 💚
I hear that's a thing he does.
Well said, and love hearing your thoughts on it. For what it's worth, I agree with your sentiment.
KillTeam beginner here...I recently ordered the box without any knowledge...just because...well, Beastmen! Then I started doing some research on how to play them...read and heard nothing but complaints about the team...got anxious...watched your video...restored my faith in the scene...and subscribed to your channel! Hats off to you, Sir! #toxicpositivity
Relax and enjoy the game
Thank you sir. Only 1.5 games into KT, but ive 100% been doing this with my fun time. "Allow your hobby to be a hobby [don't] give it permission to upset you." Cheers to the gravy of gaming, something unnecessarily wonderful on top of the stuff that really matters in life.
"Toxic Positivity, I kinda like that"
...yeah, definitely subscribing. love your energy dude
Well said Ben ! Also people should take a look at that first bat rep between Glass and Ryan - only a couple of points in it !!! So nothing is entirely broken. And as you say, so far they fixed everything that is unbalanced very carefully and methodically.
Thanks, man! Yep, I’ve seen a few batreps that’s went the same way!
Well said!
I agree the reaction to this team has not been healthy for our community.
I think people forget that this is a game. If you arent having fun, walk away a bit and enjoy other things in life.
Also, unlike other older games that GW supported then walked away from, but they are ACTIVELY keeping up with this game. Beast men will get balanced.
You gotta pay the troll toll
You got to
I'm just hype to finally have a Votann killteam in the horizon (because I'll have to wait for an individual release).
So good!
All very well said. 😊
The team is ridiculously strong, but yeah it needs some changes thats all. There is also some play against them right now but they make the game very miserable for many factions
The reactions feel kind of similat to the heat that Void Dancers got on release. I'm sure some good players will get outragous win %s until other good players figure out how to beat them.
I think that’s a pretty healthy take on this. Would agree
@@battlebrotherstabletop It’s experience really. I’ve seen this sort of reaction to something new and potent in just about every game system that’s been popular since the dawn of the internet (and participated in a few).
but isn't that a point? To understand how such a new team works, and how to fight it? Only then people can claim something being OP and actually seek balance changes. Right now it is mostly panic reaction over something new.
@@r_4_k-drone4321 yes, very much the point I was trying to make.
Seems a bit like, that the same wanting someone to be fired are the same blaming the refeere in their Kids football game for everything happend.
Lmao I love this
The video the community needed!
Just put them on a season 3 killteam board. completely open board with long hallways spanning from side to side, no walls. I dont see how any melee team (or melee operative for that matter) will even stand a chance on a board with absolutely no cover.
Where are you brother? 😞 No more content from you?
A REASONABLE RUclipsR? IMPOSSIBLE hahahahahahaha
Glad to have someone sensible in the community.
Gotta keep our lids on
Wise words my man, from my advanced decrepitness (grandad with over 40 years tabletop wargaming) that's exactly why i do this hobby. For the fun. It's my escape from the depressing state of the world around us. Even in W40K alone from all the TTWG, RPG etc i play, if i got bent every time a new better OP something came out, i would have had an embolism a long time ago.
As a gamer nerd, I love this entire message. Don't be bummed over hobby.
As a lifer New Englander, I enjoyed the hell out of the brief moment of Sarcasm Ben.
lmao what's the timecode for the sarcasm? now I need to rewatch it lol. Big love Jesse ❤ you're one of the greats
Custodes get the funky activation shenanigans that no other team gets!
A lot of teams get a double activation, custodes is unique but it's not nearly as strong as beastmen
Fuck custodes
This video aged REALLY well. I doubt they'll be as busted as people immediately guessed they would be even after the likely buff.
With you 100% here bro.
Voices of reason unite!
Beastman player tells you to not over react and wait for rules changes in a calm and collected way. I wouldn't even mind it if anyone could have just bought them , instead of getting 30 boxes to divide for an entire country.
If beastman take away my enjoyment from playing for 3-4 months is that enough to be upset? Not everyone lives in western countries , faction hobby ain't option on a 270$ salary. What if 50% of my store switches to beastman, this kills my local killteam event and now l have spent money, had a few months of no fun, and then the game died? Praying for crits is not a way to go "around" things.
If a team releasing can take away your enjoyment of a game, maybe you need to find another game bro 🤷♂️
Well said
I'm proxying Beast Snaggas as Beastmen.. I'm desperate for more Ork KillTeams. The rules for the felgor Ravagers fit nicely for a beast snaggas KillTeam.
Sick skaven kitbash! 👍
Thanks!
If you shoot the goats from range and they frenzy won't they drop dead after they get one more activation?
Yep. If you kill it while it's outside of charge range, it can't hurt you and it can't tap objectives. There's definitely counter play
Appreciate the video, man. Idk why people get so rattled, but I'm pretty excited about these guys! Maybe wait for a nerf before bringing them to the table, or just gentleman's agreement in the meantime. Frenzy seems like a really cool way to show these guys' bestial nature and a good way to get stuck into the superior melee combat lol. Your excitement about kill team is always great!
Totally! A very level headed take on the situation!
My initial freak out was misunderstanding there rules lol. I thought they always frenzied... even if they died on there own activation when charging and fighting. Dont get me wrong frenzy is still crazy good just not OP broken. Honestly just make them not contest points when frenzied and either make war paint cost 3 EP or if it stays 1 EP make it lose protection from stun. Boom strong team thats no longer overtuned
lmao reminds me of Heirotek where everybody read it wrong at first lol. Yeah that would have been wild! I agree, they need some small tweaks and i'm hopeful they will put them out sooner than later
Oh man, won’t someone think of Jerry?! Poor guy!
Jerry just out here struggling
This is the Ben I want to see more of on Casual Wargamers.
Calm, chill Ben is a much better watch\listen than bombastic Ben who tries to hard to be loud and outrageous and says people with different opinions about new releases are 'wrong'.
👍🏽
This opinion is wrong
@@battlebrotherstabletop Hi Ben. That's a neat green rat head you've got there, did you make that?
Who am I speaking to right now?
I freak out positively….
You positively freak me out
U think they get hard counted by teams who can guarantee crits. Kasrkin do pretty well.
Absolutely
❤
Don’t know what you’re talking about because I couldn’t get the Gallowfall box. 🤪 But on a serious note, and I know you’re not a 40k guy (at least online).... How did you feel about the Leagues of Votann release, where they needed to nerf the army before it actually released because TO’s were refusing to allow the faction to be played in tournaments?
I'm generally not a fan of TO's interfering in that way, especially in KT. The power swings aren't as big as they are in 9th edition, where you have a lot of insanely good things stacking on top of each other to the point where it can feel almost hopeless playing into an army. Kill Teams that are overpowered usually take a minor tweak or two to bring back in line.
I'm really looking forward to 10th, but didn't have any involvement with 9th so i can't really speak to it other than it worked out lol. There's definitely way more at stake in 40k tournaments in a lot of ways, but i don't TO's should house rule for Kill Team. That's a really long winded way of saying I don't have an informed answer lmao
@@battlebrotherstabletop I felt pretty powerless watching the goats advancing across the board with absolutely no way to shoot at them.
I'm calling for Ben to be fired 😂
You'll have to pry this job from my cold, dead hands
@@battlebrotherstabletop *incapacitated* hands
@@mrpink8228 to bad he is frenzying
Word. I'm so bummed over the outrage. (Not the criticism per se).
Stop being such a healthy gamer! Get mad with the rust of us!!!
Am mad with shilling!
Are they too strong? Probably, but it's not like you're ever gonna run into someone who managed to buy a set. All 8 of those players are having the time
So, my "Problem" with the Beastmen is just that it makes no canonical sense AT ALL. If my Pathfinder hit's the Beastmen with a quadruple Crit Railgun this thing shouldn't still be running at my dudes. It has a sizable hole in it's body if it is lucky to even have a body anymore.
If a Beastmen takes a Melta to the face that would one shot a Custodes, i don't want it to be like "unga bunga, you made me angry" this thig should be D.E.A.D.
I love the lore for beastmen to get raged by ranged combat, that part is a great idea. Just make it different.
Idea one, this is stolen from Gears of War Tactics. If you shoot at the Beastmen, after resolving the attack, let them make a free dash action. Gives more incentive to maybe not shoot if it might get out of los afterwards.
Want more, give them a -1 damage for Ranged combat only.
Want something else? Give them a +1 to move and +1 attack but let them lose objective control if they fall below half health instead of being injured.
Pretty much any combination of these rules would be more fun than being literally unkillable in range combat and zombie running towards the enemy.
And if you don't want to alter the rule too much, just make it that if a crit with an AP1 or better weapon is scored against them after they raged, they are still killed even range. Just add the condition to the "can only die if..." part.
- ...
- An enemy operative strikes it with critical hit in ranged combat with a weapon profile that reduces the number of saves being made against it. (APx, Px)
I can definitely sympathize with that. Maybe some chaos blessings keep them around a little longer? While goats are not daemons, I really get daemonic vibes from this team.
The move after being shot is probably my favorite proposed change. Looking forward to seeing how it all shakes down in the meta! Really great solutions here, man
Where Sam?! I'm gonna freak ouuuut
no i promise it's not worth it... Don't give Sam the permission to upset you!!!
@@battlebrotherstabletop Sam's absence is op aieeeeee
I have an image in my head of the Battle Goats painted in bright colours inspired by the Muppets or Monsters Inc. I don't know how an opponent would feel if they did well with such a ridiculous paint scheme.
Please do it
40K Players (1987 to present): Oh my God! These new rules!?! The sky is falling!
I think that too many players see Kill Team (and 40K of course) as some kind of competitive sport which they want to desperately to "win" at. So when they think a change is coming to the game that will potentially dramatically change their chances of winning then they start to panic. Pretty much every GW game should be rightly seen as beer and pretzels game. The rules are thematic and flavorful, but cannot hope to be balanced given the complexity and the constant arrival of new units and factions. The biggest winners of Kill Team are those folks that play it for fun with friends.
Really well said. I think kill team is a really awesome competitive game, but it’s also an awesome casual game
yeah i'm new to wargaming but I can already tell that too many people are deriving their enjoyment from winning and playing absolutely optimally towards winning, and not enough people derive their fun from the game itself and from having fun and rolling dice. Bring back the beer and pretzels!
They'll probably get nerfed, it'll be fine. Everyone needs to chill.
Great talk Ben, I applaud you brand of “toxic positivity” the hobby needs more of it. 👍🏻
Many teams can have something that Beastmen can't. A lot of kill teams have access to melta/plasma gun/ bomb/mine spam, whereas Beastmen can have max 1 plasma pistol. Without frenzy, they would go down too fast and too easy. I'm not saying that the "Frenzy" is ok, but it gives a chance of winning the game. Perhaps GW could modify this ability, but after seeing 3 different battle reports where Beastemn were going down pretty easy and fast, without "Frenzy" they would be at the bottom behind Compendium teams.
Some people are overreacting because, perhaps they got a bit too lazy to think how to deal with the Beastmen. I don't know, but in my personal opinion they must have "Frenzy" ability in order to survive that overhelming firepower of other kill teams, which Beastmen certainly lack. After playing Match Play kill teams, and seeing unhappy and disappointed faces of people who lost against my team too often, I play only Narrative games, where the story, leveling up operatives, gives more fun and keeps people in good and healthy mood than Match Play ever did.
I think you're pretty spot on
I have never seen a team go from "there's no way they can work" to "omg they're broken" so quickly. I love the models though and I like seeing a strong melee team in the game which aren't Gellerpox.
lol so true. I agree, melee is so tough in this edition, I love the strong melee teams
Kill Team really has a lot of strong shooting teams, I think there's space for a team that just hard counters being shot off objectives.
Love to heard voice of reason! GJ Ben.
Thanks, man!
Bro 9 months since a video? Hope you're okay man.
I’m doing good man, just crazy busy with life and kids! Hoping to get back in the saddle soon 🙏
Wise words from the Bam-Bam-Bigalo! Arguably most factions special ability breaks a core mechanic (e.g. shooting into combat, changing your order mid-turn). Looking forward to seeing them in action. And agreed, where are the nids?
We’re cut from the same cloth 🙂
voices of reason, unite!
I'm not freaking out, just disgusted in this FOMO Crap and lack of product as well as shills using 10th edition as an excuse for these issues. I still can't get a copy of the critical ops cards, and that has nothing to do with plastic.
I travel all over the country for work, and I always ask about the critical ops cards and most stores have never heard of them. They don't even know they were a product. I think one actual GW employee knew what I was talking about.
Yeah, absolutely. The amount of boxes released is nuts. Really hoping they fix it next season
@@NightfireGamingYT this is equally sad and hilarious to me
More to the point of the vid, I agree with you. Being mad over a team that will most likely be nerfed soon is one thing, but trying to get someone fired over it is ridiculous.
I agree, its sa. Gw under produced this box hopefully after 10th releases it will go back to everyone gettimg a box.
Crit ops on the other hand GW has no excuse.
If i dont get an ashes of faith box I will riot.
people seems to forget that game designers don't have enough time to be gamers too, they will fix it
You’re right that folks are overreacting. I think part of the problem is that they look doubly strong when contrasted with the Squats team. That makes them seem hilariously overpowered.
Your Skaven look good btws.
I hate the way they look and I will stick with my Kommandos and Legionaires regardless. I do have Intercessors set up but just have not printed their rules yet.
Legionaires for life
Don't get any outrage over Fellgor Ravagers. They're just another team to be played around. Kasrkin having the wrong ballistic skill to this day is way worse for the game than anything new from Gallowfall and that issue hasn't been resolved for months.
Oof. I think Kasrkin are in a great place now, dude
@@battlebrotherstabletop Nah. They aren't representative of the Kasrkin we've been given for over a decade, nor consistent with the fluff. Not an opinion, either. They are unplayable.
@@razpenguin lmao I hope you’re joking. They are objectively VERY playable after the buffs.
@@battlebrotherstabletop Disagreed. They're simply not Kasrkin without the proper ballistic skill. Been playing with the unit since 2003 before they had their own models and the misstep with their ballistic skill in this game makes them totally unenjoyable and unplayable.
@@razpenguin alright dude. They are objectively good, you can’t argue against that. Anybody who plays this game knows they are good.
It’s not 40K, Kill Team is it’s own system and is much more granular. In KT space marines hit on 3s humans hit on 4s. In the early days of KT some humans hit on 3s but they have moved towards 4s to reflect the difference between a space marine and a human.
Hate to break it to you, but the games we play change over time 🤷♂️
If you want to see some negativity try liking the new star wars movies, it's like being a nerd pariah
You are the only person brave enough to publicly admit that. Respect ✊
Great words Ben. I Really love anyone with a platform who’s willing takes the time to try and calm the waters in our hobby space. Well said 👍👍👍 #geekstrongnerdon
Thanks, man! Gotta stay level headed out here
You can't rationalise with irrational people. Especially irrational nerds. Goats are fine, they'll be tuned down next balance patch but the game will still be fun. There wasn't enough gallowfall printed for them to be ubiquitous anyway so they're not going to be played everywhere all the time. The world is addicted to hyperbole.
Beastmen suck now. Orks still best.
Some people commenting on the internet isn't a community. I know that you thrive off of controversy as a creator. But the imagined community is an illusion, and this is a non-issue.
I don’t just thrive on it, I survive off of pure controversy. I crave it 🤡
Best solution to GW's horrible rules and game balance. Don't play GW games they suck, and if they don't give GW a few months maybe a year, they will mess it up then in two years time sell you a new edition of the game, fixing their intentional fuq'ery giving you a year, maybe two, before they drop another steaming pile of new edition in your lap, before asking you to give them a wipe with a crisp stack of bills.
Lmao, Kill Team is the best game they released in years. Rules wise, they’re absolutely headed in the right direction across the board. Business wise, they do some really feels bad stuff, but rules wise, things have absolutely improved over the past few years.
May I suggest you don’t speak with a knives in your hand? I’ve been thinking you should hurt yourself at anytime and did not listened 😂. Also you never touch the miniature so there is no time optimisations 😅.
Not freaking out, but definitely pissed off that this was allowed to occur and was seemingly so obvious. Points to them truly ditching play testing
I don't know. The general concensus forming from people who have played them (i've only tried doubblefisted, but agree) appears to be they are somewhat OP, but not nearly as much as feared :)
@@a.k.summers5633 yeah, read the same, but many of those accounts I have seen have been from people still not quite being able to optimize them yet. Once that happens though…
@@BB-pn2qv it's not that I can't see it as a definate possibility. But we will also see teams and playstyles being optimized to counter them. Let's see what happens before we bring out the pitchforks :)
allowed to occur what? Play 20 games with/against them before you start saying devs didn't playtest..
@@r_4_k-drone4321 …. Have you? I don’t understand how rational concern is somehow, bad?
I mean, you are the one that made a 16 min video over a couple of comments that triggered you about some rando saying that people should be fired, so... Kinda hypocritical that you say overreacting is not healthy. This is just your opinion, but it comes across as a lame moral lecture. The negative reaction also comes from the ridiculous GW policies and production numbers regarding boxes and rule material. Boxes that get hyped but just cannot be bought, actual core rule changes that come in random cardpacks that won't be reprinted. If it wasn't for wahapedia this game would be dead.
Also Killteam is *not* well balanced. It is a good game, but it is just not well balanced. It has winrate patterns that would be unacceptable for any game that wasn't made by GW. I really wish that would die already, because it goes into fanboyism territory and tries to shut down legitimate criticism for the game.
As a side note that really isn't the point of my comment but I'll point out anyway, Frenzy is much more than "a little over tuned". Git gud is not a good answer to broken shit, and killteam does always have broken shit at release and sometimes it stays for months, which is not good. Specially against "your buddy jerry" like you say, casual games being so unbalanced is just not good for the game.
The community has now ascended to meta criticism. Join the enlightenment.
In any case, there's a difference between "hey, this thing seems really strong, let's see how it shakes out" and "nobody has played this yet, but the guy that designed this should lose their job"
Granted, there are things that we can and should be critical about (product availability and preorder shenanigans), but like... There's no reason to be as mad as folks seemed to be over these rules.
@@DaronSchmit I really think that it's good to take a look outside one's bubble and realize that there is a vast world outside the dedicated killteam community that you may know. Most people dgaf, and it's my impression that some people just seek that 1 comment that says some stupid outraged thing to in turn be mad about it themselves. Like how many people do you think this youtuber has seen advocating for whoever designer to be fired? How many have *you* seen? This is just criticising other people for being mad while artificially seeking reasons to be mad yourself. Beam on your own eye and all that.
having said all that, I would have 0 problems with it if it wasn't always accompanied by an aura of moral superiority.
Right, it's okay to be upset and critical, it's not okay to be an ass.
I think that's really the message here. Something more akin to "Hey, this seems strong, but let's be chill and civil about things." Over "look at these losers who are crying 'fire the designers' over rules they haven't played with yet."
Just trying to fight back against overblown reactionism on the internet.
What games are you thinking of?
@@heinz8233 The real question is... Is my aura of moral superiority bubble square or pentagon? That's what we're all dying to know
But… have you played them? I feel that downplaying the concerns of some rather skilled, competitive players that there is a serious balance issue with these is rather gaslighty. Most people aren’t going nuts calling for people to get fired, that is a lunatic minority. Most though, are legit concerned for the same reasons you listed. The team seems to have many, outright broken mechanics. Skaven team looks amazing BTW. Love those.
Nope, not yet. In my circles, i have seen skilled, comp players having a much healthier outlook on this team than others. The majority of folks crushing tournaments aren't super worried about this team ruining the meta. There definitely need to be some tweaks, but largely they are okay in my opinion. We will have to see the tournament results and the thoughts of those skilled players. In my experience though, most really good players aren't freaking out over this team. The outrage seems to be mostly coming from folks who really want to be skilled, competitive players lol.
I don't think i'm downplaying concerns or gaslighting anyone.
Thanks, dude! It was a labor of love!
@@battlebrotherstabletop yea i think a lot of these concerns come from, as you said, these guys looking like theyre really stompy in a more casual setting. You're gonna *have* to put on your thinking cap and really make sure you're on top of your game when playing against them. Which doesnt make them broken or unbeatable. But it probably makes them a really bad choice in a "beer and pretzels" setting when everyone just wants to hang out and roll dice.
They'll be the pathfinders of the next few months. like "man, im not breaking these guys out in a casual setting, thats just rude" type of team.
@@ChopsTV well said, dude