Thanks to Extra for sponsoring this episode! (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞ Sign up for Extra with our link: www.poqi3m.com/solo/?sub1=INS... and start building your credit with a debit card - yes, a debit card!!
I understand why these male leads don't want to settle down and have children. Kids are expensive,selfish,and heartless you have it instill the artificial concepts of right and wrong also hope so they won't try to end their own misery
Hi Jon hope ypu are all happy and I hope you all had a great Xmas and happy new year. I'm a huge huge fan of your channel and I've watched every video you have made yep I have no life. I love that you research everything though and if it requires more than one video you don't rush everything and put it in one video and spoiling everything, you actually give every video and subject the time it requires and to me that is amazing and your dedication and commitment shows in all your videos and as always you have done a amazing job. Just thought I'd tell you this as you deserve the credit plus everyone likes to know when they have done a great job and are given a compliment and you very much deserve both so well done and thank you for bringing a little joy into my life. Take care and stay safe xx
To be fair, with the Barbie one, Rothbart specifically asked "Do you love *MY* daughter?" And it makes sense as it's referring to Odile rather than Odette.
I can say that at least, the reason it works for Daniel in the Barbie version is because prior to his vow, Rothbart asks him, "Are you asking for /my daughter's/ hand in marriage? That's flattering but I must ask, /do you love her/?" The way he words his question is what makes it work in that version. Saying yes to that question meant saying he loved Rothbart's daughter only.
Derek did state more in the 1994 animated film about why he loved Odette beyond her beauty. "I love you. Your kindness and courage. I always have." Those words were uttered just before she awoke after Rothbart's death.
@@alexp.d3689 I'll grant you that they didn't really show in the movie that Derek witnessed Odette's kindness, but consider this: 1. We know that Odette was kind and courageous. She helped Puffin's injured wing in an act of kindness, and she stood up to Rothbart in a defiant act of courage every time she rejected his advances. A cowardly woman might have accepted Rothbart's proposal as an easy ticket out of her enchantment, but not Odette. 2. We also know that Derek and Odette spent every summer together while growing up. I know that it was a somewhat antagonistic childhood. However, the fact that Derek was determined to prove his love after her initial rejection of his proposal, and the fact that he held out hope for her after the entire kingdom of Chamberg had given up gives an indication that somewhere deep within, he did love her for more than her beauty. He just needed some separation from her to figure it out himself. It is possible, and indeed likely, that during their growing up together, Derek did witness Odette being kind and courageous. We just didn't get to really see it during the iconic "This Is My Idea" musical number.
@@alexp.d3689 3. There's also the fact that Odette herself still loved Derek, as demonstrated in my favorite song of the film "Far Longer Than Forever." It's likely that during her time of enchantment, she was able to think back on her childhood with Derek and think more fondly of him.
13:59 Actually, Darek DID learn new things about Odette since he first proposed to her at the start of the movie. Towards the end, after he kills Rothbart, he holds Odette's body and says, "Forgive me. I only wanted to break the spell. To prove my love. I love you, your kindness, and courage. I always have." So yeah, Derek HAD indeed matured since his first proposal.
I always got the impression that Derek DID appreciate more than Odette's looks, but just had a hard time articulating it. But by the end she had been able to see his true feelings through his actions, even if he still wasn't great with his words.
I laughed entirely too much when Odette and the Prince leapt to their deaths than I should have. I think this just confirms I am not sophisticated enough for ballet.
No, believe me, the dancers also laugh when they are not on stage. I have danced together whith professional dancers and when they were rehearsing Sheherezade where she and her lover are dying and have to crawl towards each other they were absolutely laughing their butt off. But on stage they were acting all serious. There are also some comedy ballets like Don Quixote or Coppélia. Most things are not as sophisticated as snobbish people want you to believe. Like people who think that Shakespeare is so sophisticated and ignore all the d*ck and fart jokes as well as the fact that he also wrote the line "Villain, I have done thy mother" (Titus Andronicus).
@@winterblume8000 I'm a firm believer that if classic literature had their words adapted to flow well in modern language and not read like 5th grade teather they would be crudely funny. And the one where the hero wins his bride after a duel and says "I have wooed her with my sword"
@@winterblume8000 I have a poster that literally breaks down all Shakespearean insults by category. And it’s glorious! Also, it was super dramatic as they jumped off the stage. I don’t entirely blame you for laughing.
I think the significance of vowing to love an imposter was symbolic of their shallowness. If they had truly loved Odette for who she was on the inside, how could they have possibly not realized it wasn't really her?
Exactly! It would literally ruin me to know my husband fell for an imposter. I would definitely know something was up. Even if he had every last mole and skin tag in the right place, I would get him checked for multiple personality disorder. I thought the intent and meaning here were quite obvious.
This reminds me of situations where a man falls in love with a woman who happens to be a twin of another, But because the man is so shallow and doesn't bother learning their differences, he gets them confused, upsetting at least one, if not both in the process. Happens more often than it should.
Some versions open with a prologue showing Rothbart trying to seduce Odette and her refusing. The curse is punishment for that refusal. The other swan maidens are probably from Odette's household as princess, and are collateral damage. That makes the condition for breaking the spell a little more logical: declaration of love to break the hold of Rothbart. The ballroom disaster is basically following fairytale rules, but you could make a case that Siegfried proves unworthy because he can't see beyond the surface appearance of Odile: he should have fallen in love with Odette's inner qualities, and was fooled by superficial values. There's one version where the swan maidens attack Rothbart after Odette and Siegfried kill themselves and this makes sense: swans can be very, very aggressive and dangerous. Rothbart should have turned Odette and her ladies into a more placid animal....
@@bennu547 To be fair, they can be all the above. There's a pair of swans in the nature center near my home, and they're always neutral-to-vaguely-friendly with me. Granted, I just stand there in total admiration, equipped with cell phone to take pictures, but still.
That’s a great point about the swan maidens being collateral damage. It’s reminiscent of the entire kingdom being put to sleep along with Sleeping Beauty.
@@dianabeloved It wasn’t really collateral damage everyone else would die while she was sleeping so she wake up to a kingdom full of corpses not to mention there was an only child so they didn’t have someone else to rule after the king and queen died. So by putting everyone else the sleep it was to REDUCE the damage
The older cartoon Toei's Swan Lake, the prince does vow to Odelle, he met Odette only once, and when he asks her her name at the ball where he is going to make the vow, she says "Odelle" when Odette starts to die, he says "you lied to me" and the daughter says "no I didn't, you asked me my name, and my name is Odelle"
14:10 Actually, In The Swan Princess once the spell is broken, instead of cheering, Derick goes over to the still-dead Odette and says: Forgive me Odette. Forgive me, I only wanted to break the spell. To prove my love. I love you. *Your kindness, your courage*, I always have.'
When I heard Jon said that if Odette asked Derek again and nothing would have changed I jumped right to the comments to see if someone had mention that Derek does mention to love Odette's kindness and courage. And here you are! 👏👏👏
The "Barbie and the Pink Shoes" is probably my fav adaptation of Swan Princess. Instead of the prince being fooled, the MC and villain had a dance battle which was very iconic
To be fair, after Rothbart's defeat, Derek does confess that he loves Odette for her "kindness and courage". It took actually losing her for him to be able to articulate it, but there ya go. The Swan Princess is one of my all time favorite movies from when I was a kid. It's right up there with Disney's The Little Mermaid and Don Bluth's Anastasia and Thumbelina. Why is it my favorite? I dunno. I'm a sucker for True Love triumphing over Evil I guess XD
Solo Fam! Mere Mortals! Which version of Swan Lake is YOUR favorite?! Let me know in a comment, and make sure you say why! Pure nostalgia? More engaging story? I'd love to hear your thoughts! ayeeee This is by FAR one of the most requested stories in the history of Messed Up Origins and this deep-dive is only the beginning! Make sure to like and subscribe so you don't miss Part 2 in a few weeks AND all the other exciting content that's coming in the meantime :) Thank you ALL for watching and for reading all the way to the end of this comment. Love
Hey Jon my favorite one is actually the one of Barbie Swan Lake because it's still quite dark when it comes to the villain. I do remember watching it but I think it was when I was in middle school and high school.
Also thank you for doing this messed up origin of swan lake. I really hope you can do a messed up origin of the Wild Swans. Oh and maybe you can do a messed up origin of Korean folklore if it's possible. Also a messed up origin of Furypelt.
Actually every episode makes my childhood darker and edgier FOR ALL THE RIGHT REASONS! I mean every one of them is so fascinating on how werid grim grimsly gruesome spine tingling nerve shattering it is! It's great.
I watched the Barbie one, the Black Swan and even that same ballet not long ago. And from those 3, the Barbie one was actually the best for me, even if sometimes is a bit weird, but it is less weird than the others. The Black Swan is completely different and honestly it horrified me more than all the horror movies I ever watched.
Barbie Swan Lake was based on the original libretto of Swan Lake in 1877, but the Swan Princess is based on the later productions of Swan Lake. The 1877 Swan Lake was a romantic ballet, and that is why, there were swan maiden fairies, and the crown was Odette's protection talisman, but when romantic ballet wasn't popular anymore, after Peter Tchaikovsky's death, the plot of Swan Lake was heavily changed by Tchaikovsky's brother for the revival. Odette was now supposed to be an enchanted princess, and instead of Odette's forest friends, the swans were interpreted as her ladies-in-waitings. The crown was only a regular princess crown. In later productions, a happy ending was introduced, with the prince killing the wizard, instead of Odette and Siegried freeing the lake spell though their united death. Odile was interpreted as the black swan. And this is the reason, why we have so many different versions. The original fairy tale Swan Lake is based on is "The Stolen veil", also called the "Swan Pond", which had been also made a (nowadays lost) ballet "Le lac des fees"/Fairy Lake, but ballets were rarely close adaptions of their inspiration.
@@Alisonsgachaverse Peter is the „western“ translation of the same Russian name and it is mostly used in books, booklets and movies about him, so that‘s indeed the name he is known with - and of course that wouldn’t be his Russian real name, which is also used by Wikipedia, but the other one is like his easier cultural legacy name. For example, his opera Eugene Onegin would then to be called originally Yevgeny Onegin, and we would need to say Lebedinoye ozero instead of Swan Lake
Interestingly enough my first introduction to Swan Lake was a book about the ballet, including the ending where they "Romeo and Juliet" themselves. Some answers for some of your questions. Odette is turned into a swan for refusing Rothbart's advances. Siegfried's vow to the imposter is proof that his love is not true. Also some symbolism, swans mate for life and can die of a broken heart.
To be fair, Derek does tell Odette why he loves her in a brief line after he defeats the great animal. He says he loves her kindness and courage and always has...but it's such a brief line and there's no real build-up to it that it sort of feels like the writers got to that part and were like "Oh, wait, we forgot to resolve the conflict from the beginning of the film....oh shit, just slap a line in there about how she's brave or whatever, it's fine, the kiddies have short memories, it's fine, wedding time!" It's kind of a shame because they spent so much of the beginning of the film building up her character and her relationship with Derek growing up, just a little more focus on their adult relationship would have made the plot truly come full circle. Still a dear film from my childhood though. Looking forward to the next part!
I used to do ballet as a child, like a small child. I'm a child of divorce, I feel like that's important to add. And my father wanted to take his small daughter out to go see a movie, and it just so happens that there's a new ballerina movie out, The Black Swan. I don't really remember anything but all I do remember is us leaving within like the first like few minutes of the movie. My poor divorce dad was just trying to take his daughter out to a movie. I have never tried to revisit that movie, and I still have no idea what it's about, all I remember is my dad pulling me out of the theater
Honestly loved this episode because I grew up with Barbie Swan Lake and the Swan Princess series. Loved them growing up and honestly wasn't surprised about the OG ending. After reading about Rapunzel's OG tale I sort of thought that was the same thing for the other tales I grew up with. It's nice to see the you cover this tale and how we get to see what the very first story was all about.
I can't wait for Part 2! Swans represent love in most cultures since they mate for life, I'm guessing that's why she is turned into one. Also, the deal with the 40 women turned into swans reminds me of The Last Unicorn. I don't know how familiar you are with the movie, but the main villain traps all the unicorns in the ocean because he's obsessed with them and their beauty. I say the "main villain" because there are other villains and trapping unicorns is a popular theme among all of them.
In the 1981 animated version of Swan Lake, Rothbart was a powerful, wicked wizard who wanted Odette for his wife. When she and her father both refused, he destroyed the entire kingdom, killing everyone in the process, and kidnapped her. For three years, he kept her a prisoner in his castle, proposing to her every night only to get the silent and cold shoulder treatment. It's also disturbing to note that Odette is the same age - or younger than - his daughter, Odile who also has her eyes on Prince Sigfreid.
I also saw an ending where Odette bled out but there could be two options on how to take that ending Option 1: Odette would just bleed out and die or Option 2: The blood represents her period where it shows that her childhood would end and she'd start to become a women
I watched black swan when I was younger and let me tell you that shit scared so much that i had a nightmare the same night I watched it. And yet I watched it over and over again for no reason
"the vow was meant..." just means he did NOT realise he vowed to the wrong woman - so he is still not ready, because he just vowed to the first person looking alike, not realising the person / personality is different. So it totally makes sense that it destroyes Odette
I think it's because only a man "who has never loved before" can break the curse. So when he pledges his love to someone else first, even unknowingly, it still counts as having "loved" before.
There is an Anime called Princess Tutu, that is a ballet centric story that covers so many famous ballets however the over reaching story on the anime is The Swan Princess.
I'm a fan of Dance Dance Danseur an anime that was on Netflix. The animation was excellent, and the story is very interesting. It takes a look at the characters of the Prince and the Baron through the eyes of two boys competing for those roles, their "Odette" is their love for ballet. Though there is a girl character who actually plays Odette, she's a bit secondary, though.
I applaud you, Mr. Jon solo I applaud you for having to go through and watching a good old classic childhood Barbie movie just for the sake of the video and I really appreciate it. This was my childhood Swan Lake story growing up. And my personal favorite, so I’m really glad you decide to give it a watch just for the video
Tbh I think Derek didn’t have the right words to describe Odette. If you notice at the ballroom scene he says to the fake Odette that something feels different about her so he does have his suspicions. And Derek does express his feelings at the end of the movie say he loves her kindness and courage. His development is so overlooked
There’s a Hungarian folk tale where a price was cursed to be a swine forever. The curse can only be broken if a princess wishes to have a smiling apple, and singing vine and a tingling, jingling peach. That is so specific😹 Basically he had to wait for the most eccentric princess in the world to want those things. He also traded the king, the princess’ father of course, her hand in marriage in exchange for the prince (still a swine) to provide roadside service for the king’s stuck carriage. A carriage that apparently one swine can pull out but a bunch of other people working together can’t🙃 It’s a very entertaining story and there’s a channel on RUclips called Hungarian Folktales that has that story and a bunch of strange and whimsical tales. The art and music for the stories are wonderful and I want the narrator to read me all my bedtime stories his voice is so terrific for telling stories
Although it was sad, I loved the original ballet. I caught it on RUclips a few years ago. I did, however, have the pleasure of seeing the Nutcracker at a local theatre one Christmas!
*Suggestions:* The Messed Up Origins of: *The Wizard of Oz -* MGM Movie vs.The Wonderful Wizard of Oz from L. Frank Baum; *Quest for Camelot -* Warner Bros Movie vs. The King's Damosel from Vera Chapman; *The Steadfast Tin Soldier -* Disney Short from Fantasia 2000 vs. The Steadfast Tin Soldier from Hans Christian Andersen.
I was so into the story and then those silly ads pop up out of nowhere!!! I have watched Black swan a million times a long time ago! It was one of my favorite movies! Thank you for doing this, I can't wait to see part two!!!!
“I’ll always remember your beauty, and nothing else!!!” Seriously, she was supposed to be so beautiful, but no one could ever recognize her! Wtf?? THAT’S ALL SHE WAS KNOWN FOR!!!!!!
Especially the music video at the end of the VHS where the singer is in an empty bathtub or something in the beginning.... LMFAO, who actually remembers that?!? I know I didn't make that up 😂
One thing I feel Disney would do is cross Swan Lake with another swan related fairytale called the Wild Swans (feel free to look that one up) and maybe call it Swanz, where Odette’s love interest would be the eldest son of these multiple brothers that got turned into swans by their wicked stepmother, the curse would be more of an on command thing as opposed to swans by day/humans by night and the little sister to the Swan Brothers (the only one to not be cursed to become a swan) would become matchmaker between the two.
I love The Swan Princess, Barbie of Swan Lake, Black Swan, and even the Odette in a game called MLBB. When I figured out about the true story of the ballet, I fell in love to it even more. I love the darker version of the story, it's more interesting.
10:30 in the ballet only the Prince believes Odile is Odette, so when Odette goes to visit him she sees him tell Odile that he loves her which makes Odette think that he had no intention of keeping his vow to her. So it was basically a giant ruse by Rothbart to make Odette and the other girls give up all hope of being human again.
As a ballet dancer it’s funny for me to hear people crap on ballets and them being boring. I just love ballet so much and could never find it boring, so it’s kinda funny to remember a lot of people don’t think like me 💀
Excited for part 2! I would love to see you break down the origins of other ballets (like the Nutcracker). And I promise it’s easier to understand ballet when you see it live- they have 1-2 paragraph plot summaries for each act in the program!
Maybe she dies when he confesses to the wrong woman because swans are famous for their loyalty for their mate, even pining to death if their mate dies. In this case the disloyalty of her mate, the prince, caused her to feel as if she’d lost her mate which normally would have just made her pine to death but for the sake of brevity she just dropped dead. Likewise with the loyalty angle maybe OG Rothbart wanted a loyal wife so he transformed 14 beautiful maidens into swans in the hopes that one of them would agree to marry him to break their curse.
I don't know what it is about Swan Princess, but I thoroughly enjoyed it as a kid and teenager (the other Swan Princess films, 2/3/4/5/etc. didn't interest me nearly as much). Maybe the music and colorful animation hit the spot for me. I didn't know Swan Lake had a bad ending, though I had heard Black Swan was really trippy. I like that stories often don't have good endings. Makes things a bit more realistic. Thank you for this, Jon. It's awesome, as always!
Hi Jon, great video. Derek however does realize what he loves about Odette. He says in the beginning of the movie that he doesn't know how to say what he feels and sets out to prove his love with his actions. At the end of the movie he say that he loves Odette's kindness and courage and he always had. Some times you need time to figure things out.
Keep it up, you’ve been one of my favorite RUclipsrs for years now and I’ve never been dissatisfied with your content in all the years I’ve been watching
I actually grew up on the original version of swan lake. I'm a ballet nerd so I had story books of lots of famous ballets like coppelia and Firebird and the nutcracker. The northern ballet has yet another version of this story set in the early twentieth century which is very different. It involves the death of Sigfried's brother when they are children and it's worth watching. It's very good but not what I was expecting
The Swan Princess animated film was one of my all-time faves as a kid. I still really like it... up to the point where we meet the annoying animal companions, and then it kinda goes downhill from there. The frog with a species complex is the most irritating, the turtle is fine and the puffin is okay, I guess. The final fight at the end is great, though I sorta wish it lasted longer. I have a copy of The Black Swan (Mercedes Lackey) on my shelf that I should probably re-read; I remember enjoying it, but the only thing that actually stuck with me was "An heir and a spare."
You should totally reread it. It gives a reasonable motivation for the Baron's action, for one thing. The characters in it are more realistic. [SPOILER] It has a happy ending.
I think it's always good to try to have an open mind... Since Swan Lake is much like the Nutcracker and other fairy tales that have been told many times and changed many times too.
To the point, from my point of view, the Swan Princess mis-pledge was that he couldn't actually tell a doppelganger wasn't her. It proved that he couldn't love her more than the surface beauty since the same package was what he learned, or didn't move past. No hole, just didn't pick up on the subtlety *looking at you Derek*.
There is an anime also about the swan princess called Princess Tutu. Has a similar story line but i won't spoil the anime for you. Hope you watch it. Love your videos!
I've been waiting for part 2 but now I've given in! The experience on editing and the fact your Charisma is shining bright! Swan Princes was my mom and I's favorite cassette to put in the VCR!!!
Thanks to Extra for sponsoring this episode! (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞ Sign up for Extra with our link: www.poqi3m.com/solo/?sub1=INS... and start building your credit with a debit card - yes, a debit card!!
You must watch anime princess tutu
@@MisanthropeNazi I like that anime 🦢
I understand why these male leads don't want to settle down and have children. Kids are expensive,selfish,and heartless you have it instill the artificial concepts of right and wrong also hope so they won't try to end their own misery
My point exactly
Hi Jon hope ypu are all happy and I hope you all had a great Xmas and happy new year. I'm a huge huge fan of your channel and I've watched every video you have made yep I have no life. I love that you research everything though and if it requires more than one video you don't rush everything and put it in one video and spoiling everything, you actually give every video and subject the time it requires and to me that is amazing and your dedication and commitment shows in all your videos and as always you have done a amazing job. Just thought I'd tell you this as you deserve the credit plus everyone likes to know when they have done a great job and are given a compliment and you very much deserve both so well done and thank you for bringing a little joy into my life. Take care and stay safe xx
To be fair, with the Barbie one, Rothbart specifically asked "Do you love *MY* daughter?" And it makes sense as it's referring to Odile rather than Odette.
More evidence that barbie movies are supreme
whelp. It truly is the best written of the FOUR.
I can say that at least, the reason it works for Daniel in the Barbie version is because prior to his vow, Rothbart asks him, "Are you asking for /my daughter's/ hand in marriage? That's flattering but I must ask, /do you love her/?"
The way he words his question is what makes it work in that version. Saying yes to that question meant saying he loved Rothbart's daughter only.
Completely agree. It also made Rothbart seem more intellectually scary, and more manipulative.
Yeah, his question is very specific.
Derek did state more in the 1994 animated film about why he loved Odette beyond her beauty. "I love you. Your kindness and courage. I always have." Those words were uttered just before she awoke after Rothbart's death.
Yeah but "What else is there?" is too iconic for Derek
@@David-nq8cv That is true. Still, he did develop more with his views by the end.
Thing's they never demonstrated in the film but whatever ... 😂😂😂
@@alexp.d3689 I'll grant you that they didn't really show in the movie that Derek witnessed Odette's kindness, but consider this:
1. We know that Odette was kind and courageous. She helped Puffin's injured wing in an act of kindness, and she stood up to Rothbart in a defiant act of courage every time she rejected his advances. A cowardly woman might have accepted Rothbart's proposal as an easy ticket out of her enchantment, but not Odette.
2. We also know that Derek and Odette spent every summer together while growing up. I know that it was a somewhat antagonistic childhood. However, the fact that Derek was determined to prove his love after her initial rejection of his proposal, and the fact that he held out hope for her after the entire kingdom of Chamberg had given up gives an indication that somewhere deep within, he did love her for more than her beauty. He just needed some separation from her to figure it out himself. It is possible, and indeed likely, that during their growing up together, Derek did witness Odette being kind and courageous. We just didn't get to really see it during the iconic "This Is My Idea" musical number.
@@alexp.d3689 3. There's also the fact that Odette herself still loved Derek, as demonstrated in my favorite song of the film "Far Longer Than Forever." It's likely that during her time of enchantment, she was able to think back on her childhood with Derek and think more fondly of him.
13:59 Actually, Darek DID learn new things about Odette since he first proposed to her at the start of the movie. Towards the end, after he kills Rothbart, he holds Odette's body and says, "Forgive me. I only wanted to break the spell. To prove my love. I love you, your kindness, and courage. I always have." So yeah, Derek HAD indeed matured since his first proposal.
I always got the impression that Derek DID appreciate more than Odette's looks, but just had a hard time articulating it. But by the end she had been able to see his true feelings through his actions, even if he still wasn't great with his words.
I laughed entirely too much when Odette and the Prince leapt to their deaths than I should have. I think this just confirms I am not sophisticated enough for ballet.
No, believe me, the dancers also laugh when they are not on stage. I have danced together whith professional dancers and when they were rehearsing Sheherezade where she and her lover are dying and have to crawl towards each other they were absolutely laughing their butt off. But on stage they were acting all serious. There are also some comedy ballets like Don Quixote or Coppélia.
Most things are not as sophisticated as snobbish people want you to believe. Like people who think that Shakespeare is so sophisticated and ignore all the d*ck and fart jokes as well as the fact that he also wrote the line "Villain, I have done thy mother" (Titus Andronicus).
@@winterblume8000 I'm a firm believer that if classic literature had their words adapted to flow well in modern language and not read like 5th grade teather they would be crudely funny.
And the one where the hero wins his bride after a duel and says "I have wooed her with my sword"
@@winterblume8000 I have a poster that literally breaks down all Shakespearean insults by category. And it’s glorious!
Also, it was super dramatic as they jumped off the stage. I don’t entirely blame you for laughing.
There's video footage of the dramatic dive onto mattress piles where the dancers are laughing so hard
I think the significance of vowing to love an imposter was symbolic of their shallowness. If they had truly loved Odette for who she was on the inside, how could they have possibly not realized it wasn't really her?
Exactly! It would literally ruin me to know my husband fell for an imposter. I would definitely know something was up. Even if he had every last mole and skin tag in the right place, I would get him checked for multiple personality disorder. I thought the intent and meaning here were quite obvious.
This reminds me of situations where a man falls in love with a woman who happens to be a twin of another,
But because the man is so shallow and doesn't bother learning their differences, he gets them confused, upsetting at least one, if not both in the process.
Happens more often than it should.
Exactly! Danced with Odile forever and still couldn't tell it wasn't Odette.
🎯
Some versions open with a prologue showing Rothbart trying to seduce Odette and her refusing. The curse is punishment for that refusal. The other swan maidens are probably from Odette's household as princess, and are collateral damage. That makes the condition for breaking the spell a little more logical: declaration of love to break the hold of Rothbart. The ballroom disaster is basically following fairytale rules, but you could make a case that Siegfried proves unworthy because he can't see beyond the surface appearance of Odile: he should have fallen in love with Odette's inner qualities, and was fooled by superficial values.
There's one version where the swan maidens attack Rothbart after Odette and Siegfried kill themselves and this makes sense: swans can be very, very aggressive and dangerous. Rothbart should have turned Odette and her ladies into a more placid animal....
Swans are are territorial and nasty. Graceful my ass
@@bennu547 To be fair, they can be all the above. There's a pair of swans in the nature center near my home, and they're always neutral-to-vaguely-friendly with me. Granted, I just stand there in total admiration, equipped with cell phone to take pictures, but still.
That’s a great point about the swan maidens being collateral damage. It’s reminiscent of the entire kingdom being put to sleep along with Sleeping Beauty.
@@dianabeloved It wasn’t really collateral damage everyone else would die while she was sleeping so she wake up to a kingdom full of corpses not to mention there was an only child so they didn’t have someone else to rule after the king and queen died. So by putting everyone else the sleep it was to REDUCE the damage
The older cartoon Toei's Swan Lake, the prince does vow to Odelle, he met Odette only once, and when he asks her her name at the ball where he is going to make the vow, she says "Odelle" when Odette starts to die, he says "you lied to me" and the daughter says "no I didn't, you asked me my name, and my name is Odelle"
ZOMG I thought I was the only one that saw Toei's adaptation!!!!
14:10 Actually, In The Swan Princess once the spell is broken, instead of cheering, Derick goes over to the still-dead Odette and says: Forgive me Odette. Forgive me, I only wanted to break the spell. To prove my love. I love you. *Your kindness, your courage*, I always have.'
I love that part when Derek finally admits his love for Odette's qualities. It's almost equivalent like a True Love's Kiss.
I always assumed the pressure got to the guy and he blurted out the first thing on his mind.
When I heard Jon said that if Odette asked Derek again and nothing would have changed I jumped right to the comments to see if someone had mention that Derek does mention to love Odette's kindness and courage. And here you are! 👏👏👏
The "Barbie and the Pink Shoes" is probably my fav adaptation of Swan Princess. Instead of the prince being fooled, the MC and villain had a dance battle which was very iconic
i always felt bad for the prince cause until the MC's unique dancing gave it up that she's the real one, he's like "what the actual fuck is going on?"
To be fair, after Rothbart's defeat, Derek does confess that he loves Odette for her "kindness and courage". It took actually losing her for him to be able to articulate it, but there ya go.
The Swan Princess is one of my all time favorite movies from when I was a kid. It's right up there with Disney's The Little Mermaid and Don Bluth's Anastasia and Thumbelina. Why is it my favorite? I dunno. I'm a sucker for True Love triumphing over Evil I guess XD
I agree 100%. I have always had a soft spot for a sappy love story
Solo Fam! Mere Mortals! Which version of Swan Lake is YOUR favorite?! Let me know in a comment, and make sure you say why! Pure nostalgia? More engaging story? I'd love to hear your thoughts! ayeeee
This is by FAR one of the most requested stories in the history of Messed Up Origins and this deep-dive is only the beginning! Make sure to like and subscribe so you don't miss Part 2 in a few weeks AND all the other exciting content that's coming in the meantime :) Thank you ALL for watching and for reading all the way to the end of this comment. Love
Hey Jon my favorite one is actually the one of Barbie Swan Lake because it's still quite dark when it comes to the villain. I do remember watching it but I think it was when I was in middle school and high school.
Also thank you for doing this messed up origin of swan lake. I really hope you can do a messed up origin of the Wild Swans. Oh and maybe you can do a messed up origin of Korean folklore if it's possible. Also a messed up origin of Furypelt.
Actually every episode makes my childhood darker and edgier FOR ALL THE RIGHT REASONS! I mean every one of them is so fascinating on how werid grim grimsly gruesome spine tingling nerve shattering it is! It's great.
Thanks Jon
Merry Christmas🎅🏼🎄
The Barbie version, since that’s the one I grew up with.
I watched the Barbie one, the Black Swan and even that same ballet not long ago. And from those 3, the Barbie one was actually the best for me, even if sometimes is a bit weird, but it is less weird than the others. The Black Swan is completely different and honestly it horrified me more than all the horror movies I ever watched.
Barbie Swan Lake was based on the original libretto of Swan Lake in 1877, but the Swan Princess is based on the later productions of Swan Lake. The 1877 Swan Lake was a romantic ballet, and that is why, there were swan maiden fairies, and the crown was Odette's protection talisman, but when romantic ballet wasn't popular anymore, after Peter Tchaikovsky's death, the plot of Swan Lake was heavily changed by Tchaikovsky's brother for the revival. Odette was now supposed to be an enchanted princess, and instead of Odette's forest friends, the swans were interpreted as her ladies-in-waitings. The crown was only a regular princess crown. In later productions, a happy ending was introduced, with the prince killing the wizard, instead of Odette and Siegried freeing the lake spell though their united death. Odile was interpreted as the black swan. And this is the reason, why we have so many different versions.
The original fairy tale Swan Lake is based on is "The Stolen veil", also called the "Swan Pond", which had been also made a (nowadays lost) ballet "Le lac des fees"/Fairy Lake, but ballets were rarely close adaptions of their inspiration.
His name was Pyotr not Peter
@@Alisonsgachaverse
Peter is the „western“ translation of the same Russian name and it is mostly used in books, booklets and movies about him, so that‘s indeed the name he is known with - and of course that wouldn’t be his Russian real name, which is also used by Wikipedia, but the other one is like his easier cultural legacy name. For example, his opera Eugene Onegin would then to be called originally Yevgeny Onegin, and we would need to say Lebedinoye ozero instead of Swan Lake
@@felicity1877 I was just saying
Interestingly enough my first introduction to Swan Lake was a book about the ballet, including the ending where they "Romeo and Juliet" themselves. Some answers for some of your questions. Odette is turned into a swan for refusing Rothbart's advances. Siegfried's vow to the imposter is proof that his love is not true. Also some symbolism, swans mate for life and can die of a broken heart.
Well said. His inability to recognize the imposter and hold his vow sacred, sentenced his mate to death. Faith tested--he failed and doomed her.
“And with stunning animation like that, who wouldnt be” 😂😂
To be fair, Derek does tell Odette why he loves her in a brief line after he defeats the great animal. He says he loves her kindness and courage and always has...but it's such a brief line and there's no real build-up to it that it sort of feels like the writers got to that part and were like "Oh, wait, we forgot to resolve the conflict from the beginning of the film....oh shit, just slap a line in there about how she's brave or whatever, it's fine, the kiddies have short memories, it's fine, wedding time!" It's kind of a shame because they spent so much of the beginning of the film building up her character and her relationship with Derek growing up, just a little more focus on their adult relationship would have made the plot truly come full circle. Still a dear film from my childhood though. Looking forward to the next part!
I used to do ballet as a child, like a small child. I'm a child of divorce, I feel like that's important to add. And my father wanted to take his small daughter out to go see a movie, and it just so happens that there's a new ballerina movie out, The Black Swan. I don't really remember anything but all I do remember is us leaving within like the first like few minutes of the movie. My poor divorce dad was just trying to take his daughter out to a movie. I have never tried to revisit that movie, and I still have no idea what it's about, all I remember is my dad pulling me out of the theater
The animated version from 1981 is more faithful to the ballet and the ending is quite ambiguous.
Honestly loved this episode because I grew up with Barbie Swan Lake and the Swan Princess series. Loved them growing up and honestly wasn't surprised about the OG ending. After reading about Rapunzel's OG tale I sort of thought that was the same thing for the other tales I grew up with. It's nice to see the you cover this tale and how we get to see what the very first story was all about.
The Swan Princess described itself only 15 minutes after into it. "It's beautiful. What else is there?"
"You must make a vow of true love!" "I make it!" *Roll credits*
That cut had me to chuckling hard. Bravo, good sir, bravo.
the Swan princess and the barbie movie are a big part of my childhood, but that's why i clicked on this video. i love dark messed up stuff
I can't wait for Part 2! Swans represent love in most cultures since they mate for life, I'm guessing that's why she is turned into one. Also, the deal with the 40 women turned into swans reminds me of The Last Unicorn. I don't know how familiar you are with the movie, but the main villain traps all the unicorns in the ocean because he's obsessed with them and their beauty. I say the "main villain" because there are other villains and trapping unicorns is a popular theme among all of them.
In the 1981 animated version of Swan Lake, Rothbart was a powerful, wicked wizard who wanted Odette for his wife. When she and her father both refused, he destroyed the entire kingdom, killing everyone in the process, and kidnapped her. For three years, he kept her a prisoner in his castle, proposing to her every night only to get the silent and cold shoulder treatment. It's also disturbing to note that Odette is the same age - or younger than - his daughter, Odile who also has her eyes on Prince Sigfreid.
Yup. The 1981 Toei adaptation.
I also saw an ending where Odette bled out but there could be two options on how to take that ending
Option 1: Odette would just bleed out and die or
Option 2: The blood represents her period where it shows that her childhood would end and she'd start to become a women
In the Swan Princess, Derik did say her kindness and courage were reasons he loved her.
I've always LOVED the name Odette. So much I named an OC after her.
Swan lake is one of my favorite ballets along with Giselle and Carmen. I love how you talked about it .
I watched black swan when I was younger and let me tell you that shit scared so much that i had a nightmare the same night I watched it. And yet I watched it over and over again for no reason
I just wanna say you are an amazing RUclipsr, that can constantly keep me entertained, thank you Jon!
"Minimal narrative" ya, that sums up a lot of ballet plots LOL.
"the vow was meant..." just means he did NOT realise he vowed to the wrong woman - so he is still not ready, because he just vowed to the first person looking alike, not realising the person / personality is different.
So it totally makes sense that it destroyes Odette
Swan Lake is my favorite ballet and one of my favorite fairy tales! Love The Swan Princess, Black Swan, Barbie of Swan Lake. All super good.
"Take thee Rachel", Jon, I caught that FRIENDS reference. 😁
I think it's because only a man "who has never loved before" can break the curse. So when he pledges his love to someone else first, even unknowingly, it still counts as having "loved" before.
Actually Derek DOES confesses to Odette right before she comes back to life:
Derek: "I love you...your kindness and courage I've always have"
There is an Anime called Princess Tutu, that is a ballet centric story that covers so many famous ballets however the over reaching story on the anime is The Swan Princess.
Hi! Wanted to say love ur vids, and as a history buff and mythology buff I watch a LOT of these kinds of videos but urs have always been the best ❤
I'm a fan of Dance Dance Danseur an anime that was on Netflix. The animation was excellent, and the story is very interesting. It takes a look at the characters of the Prince and the Baron through the eyes of two boys competing for those roles, their "Odette" is their love for ballet. Though there is a girl character who actually plays Odette, she's a bit secondary, though.
Oh yes I watched it as well it’s so underrated I wish it got more hype
To answer your question, Odile’s job was to trick the prince into declaring his love for her and keep the maidens cursed.
I applaud you, Mr. Jon solo I applaud you for having to go through and watching a good old classic childhood Barbie movie just for the sake of the video and I really appreciate it. This was my childhood Swan Lake story growing up. And my personal favorite, so I’m really glad you decide to give it a watch just for the video
Tbh I think Derek didn’t have the right words to describe Odette. If you notice at the ballroom scene he says to the fake Odette that something feels different about her so he does have his suspicions. And Derek does express his feelings at the end of the movie say he loves her kindness and courage. His development is so overlooked
There’s a Hungarian folk tale where a price was cursed to be a swine forever. The curse can only be broken if a princess wishes to have a smiling apple, and singing vine and a tingling, jingling peach. That is so specific😹 Basically he had to wait for the most eccentric princess in the world to want those things. He also traded the king, the princess’ father of course, her hand in marriage in exchange for the prince (still a swine) to provide roadside service for the king’s stuck carriage. A carriage that apparently one swine can pull out but a bunch of other people working together can’t🙃
It’s a very entertaining story and there’s a channel on RUclips called Hungarian Folktales that has that story and a bunch of strange and whimsical tales. The art and music for the stories are wonderful and I want the narrator to read me all my bedtime stories his voice is so terrific for telling stories
The loving gaze and lack of bones in Gunther is just sooo sweet. Hims so happy. CANT WAIT FOR THE NEXT VIDEO
10:46 it makes sense cause he's superficial and that's why he fell for the wrong girl, that's his whole deal
This was my favorite video of yours! Can’t wait for part 2 🎉
Although it was sad, I loved the original ballet. I caught it on RUclips a few years ago. I did, however, have the pleasure of seeing the Nutcracker at a local theatre one Christmas!
Wow, I didn't know the Swan Lake tail is 150 years old truly amazing & your pooch Gunther is so cute just napping in your arms.
*Suggestions:* The Messed Up Origins of:
*The Wizard of Oz -* MGM Movie vs.The Wonderful Wizard of Oz from L. Frank Baum;
*Quest for Camelot -* Warner Bros Movie vs. The King's Damosel from Vera Chapman;
*The Steadfast Tin Soldier -* Disney Short from Fantasia 2000 vs. The Steadfast Tin Soldier from Hans Christian Andersen.
I was so into the story and then those silly ads pop up out of nowhere!!! I have watched Black swan a million times a long time ago! It was one of my favorite movies! Thank you for doing this, I can't wait to see part two!!!!
“I’ll always remember your beauty, and nothing else!!!”
Seriously, she was supposed to be so beautiful, but no one could ever recognize her! Wtf?? THAT’S ALL SHE WAS KNOWN FOR!!!!!!
WOW , this actually makes my childhood better
I have seen almost everything that Jon has put out, and watching his research methods develop and get more thorough has been awesome.
Palpatine draining his life force I'm dead your hilarious. So glad to be apart of the solo fam
Derek says to the dying Otette that she loves her kindness too.
I love that Jon finally discussed a Barbie movie! (Hoping for Princess and the Pauper next)
7:21 Love how you did the "role credits" bit, there!
Watching ballet for us. Talking about a true sacrifice.
As the father of a little girl, there’s ANOTHER Barbie movie on Swan Lake. Barbie and the Pink Slippers. It’s more aligned to the ballet.
Omg, the Swan Princess was one of my FAVORITE movies as a child!!!!
Especially the music video at the end of the VHS where the singer is in an empty bathtub or something in the beginning.... LMFAO, who actually remembers that?!? I know I didn't make that up 😂
I met the director of The Swan princess at comicon one year in Salt Lake City. He is such a sweetheart
One thing I feel Disney would do is cross Swan Lake with another swan related fairytale called the Wild Swans (feel free to look that one up) and maybe call it Swanz, where Odette’s love interest would be the eldest son of these multiple brothers that got turned into swans by their wicked stepmother, the curse would be more of an on command thing as opposed to swans by day/humans by night and the little sister to the Swan Brothers (the only one to not be cursed to become a swan) would become matchmaker between the two.
You know what....I approve 👍👍👍
@@melodybaoin1425 now if we could just get Disney on this.
I love The Swan Princess, Barbie of Swan Lake, Black Swan, and even the Odette in a game called MLBB. When I figured out about the true story of the ballet, I fell in love to it even more. I love the darker version of the story, it's more interesting.
I loved Black Swan, and not just because of that one scene, Ms Portman is truly amazing.
10:30 in the ballet only the Prince believes Odile is Odette, so when Odette goes to visit him she sees him tell Odile that he loves her which makes Odette think that he had no intention of keeping his vow to her. So it was basically a giant ruse by Rothbart to make Odette and the other girls give up all hope of being human again.
As a ballet dancer it’s funny for me to hear people crap on ballets and them being boring. I just love ballet so much and could never find it boring, so it’s kinda funny to remember a lot of people don’t think like me 💀
I grew up watching The Swan Princess. It seemed to not be known too much by other kids around me, so Im excited to see where this comes from.
Gunther baby looking ADORABLE! Look at him being half asleep, his face reads ''total bliss''
Wait till January 12? No! 😭 Awesome episode. Wish there was more references to black swan. More episode with barbie references please
Excited for part 2! I would love to see you break down the origins of other ballets (like the Nutcracker). And I promise it’s easier to understand ballet when you see it live- they have 1-2 paragraph plot summaries for each act in the program!
Yes more Tchaikovsky
Thank you! I've really wanted this one explained for a while, especially the Black Swan adaption.
Maybe she dies when he confesses to the wrong woman because swans are famous for their loyalty for their mate, even pining to death if their mate dies. In this case the disloyalty of her mate, the prince, caused her to feel as if she’d lost her mate which normally would have just made her pine to death but for the sake of brevity she just dropped dead. Likewise with the loyalty angle maybe OG Rothbart wanted a loyal wife so he transformed 14 beautiful maidens into swans in the hopes that one of them would agree to marry him to break their curse.
I don't know what it is about Swan Princess, but I thoroughly enjoyed it as a kid and teenager (the other Swan Princess films, 2/3/4/5/etc. didn't interest me nearly as much). Maybe the music and colorful animation hit the spot for me. I didn't know Swan Lake had a bad ending, though I had heard Black Swan was really trippy. I like that stories often don't have good endings. Makes things a bit more realistic. Thank you for this, Jon. It's awesome, as always!
His dog is cool as hell chilling
14:10 he does answer another time! As he's crying over her he says that he loves her kindness and her courage (or something along those lines)
Thank you for the "I take thee Rachel" comment. 😂💯
Obessed with both movies and so glad you made a video the day before my birthday. It always makes me happy to see your videos
Hi Jon, great video. Derek however does realize what he loves about Odette. He says in the beginning of the movie that he doesn't know how to say what he feels and sets out to prove his love with his actions. At the end of the movie he say that he loves Odette's kindness and courage and he always had. Some times you need time to figure things out.
Keep it up, you’ve been one of my favorite RUclipsrs for years now and I’ve never been dissatisfied with your content in all the years I’ve been watching
Suddenly this didn't ruin my childhood I loved the analysis of both adaptations !! 🥰
I actually grew up on the original version of swan lake. I'm a ballet nerd so I had story books of lots of famous ballets like coppelia and Firebird and the nutcracker. The northern ballet has yet another version of this story set in the early twentieth century which is very different. It involves the death of Sigfried's brother when they are children and it's worth watching. It's very good but not what I was expecting
Merry Christmas to all who reads this and I hope Jon does a video on the nutcracker
Merry Christmas!
"Coddled" is an interesting way to describe Nina's upbringing.
great video Jon!! swan lake has awlays been my favourite story as a kid and it was super interesting to hear your insight, can't wait for part 2 :)
An early Christmas present from one of my favorite RUclipsrs :)
I can’t believe the original ending to the ballet was that of Romeo and Juliet
Actually the tragic ending is the most popular but in reality we have different endings and the ballet company choose one for their representations
The Swan Princess animated film was one of my all-time faves as a kid. I still really like it... up to the point where we meet the annoying animal companions, and then it kinda goes downhill from there. The frog with a species complex is the most irritating, the turtle is fine and the puffin is okay, I guess. The final fight at the end is great, though I sorta wish it lasted longer.
I have a copy of The Black Swan (Mercedes Lackey) on my shelf that I should probably re-read; I remember enjoying it, but the only thing that actually stuck with me was "An heir and a spare."
You should totally reread it. It gives a reasonable motivation for the Baron's action, for one thing. The characters in it are more realistic. [SPOILER] It has a happy ending.
I thought the constant up-skirts in ballet were bad enough but those tights really.. accentuate those guys 😂
The best Christmas gift of all is Jon changing the music for this video.
This is looking goodddd love the multiple part episodes!
Amazing video as always💛💛💛Please do a messed up origins of 'Giselle', would absolutely love to see that!!!
I think it's always good to try to have an open mind... Since Swan Lake is much like the Nutcracker and other fairy tales that have been told many times and changed many times too.
To the point, from my point of view, the Swan Princess mis-pledge was that he couldn't actually tell a doppelganger wasn't her. It proved that he couldn't love her more than the surface beauty since the same package was what he learned, or didn't move past. No hole, just didn't pick up on the subtlety *looking at you Derek*.
Thank you for all the stories some I know some I didn't, Merry Christmas to you and your family
There is an anime also about the swan princess called Princess Tutu. Has a similar story line but i won't spoil the anime for you. Hope you watch it. Love your videos!
This one was so good.
I watched this. It was fun to watch except for a couples things I didn't like :/ But almost all of it was interesting and fun :)
I looved neko-sensei
@@terepk He was hilarious xD
No way
7:08
I literally died laughing at that bit, that was too funny 🤣🤣🤣
I've been waiting for part 2 but now I've given in! The experience on editing and the fact your Charisma is shining bright! Swan Princes was my mom and I's favorite cassette to put in the VCR!!!