Hello Nate, does the UG suction grid pulling the water and the waste out of the pond or pushing the water/air to the pond? The word suction in UG suction grid confusing me, makes me think that the water is being sucked out of the pond and into the bog/ filter .
Hi Petro, Thank you for your interest. We use the word suction, because the water is drawn down thru the gravel in a "suction grid" and not pushed up thru the gravel as it is in an up-flow bog or living plant filter. The water is not really taken out of the pond, it is cycled thru the gravel (and preferably then up thru the up-flow bog) and processed by the bacteria in the gravel and if any, the plants in the bog. Sincerely, Nate
Hi Sage, My filtration, would work for salt water. The external pump can be purchased with saltwater seals which would make it okay. So most of it would work perfectly fine with salt water. I don't think my lights would hold up under those conditions. My question for you is what you plan to keep in it. When i think of a marine tank i think of tropical fish. Tropical fish would not holdup over the winter where i live, but temperate fish would be fine. For sure, the under-gravel suction grid, the right external pump, the moving bed filter and probably the Evo K+ Microbead filter would all be just fine in that application. It sounds like an interesting undertaking. Feel free to email me directly with more specific questions. nate@practicalgardenponds.com
Yes, we strongly recommend that the under-gravel suction grid and any biological filtration of any kind, be run 24/7 (in season) in any pond. Since this is a natural process that depends on live beneficial bacteria, it is important to keep feeding that bacteria and continuing to keep oxygen coming to it. Therefore, it should run all season. Sincerely, Nate
Hello guys , congrats on your wonderful videos. I have a question that never gets discussed. How do we calculate the correct amount of water that should travel through a bog filter per hour? I am planning to build my pond with a surface area of about 600 sqft and depth of around 6 feet. I want to have a very large bog of about the same size of the pond approx 500sqft. I will have about 5-10 koi fish. Also the bottom of the pond will have gravel and water will pumped through the gravel up flow. I would like to know how how much water per hour I should pump through the pond and how much through the up flow system on bottom of the pond. I never found anybody that discussed this topic....glad to hear your input.
Hi Habita, I can understand your question and the feeling that it doesn't really get answered. You may end up feeling like I didn't answer it either because to me its a concept, not a number. The concept is that a bog or under-gravel grid (be it suction or upflow) should ooze water thru the bacteria and plants slowly. Racing water will strip nutrients away from the plants and push organic debris thru the gravel. But a lazy flow will allow the nutrients to be absorbed and the organic waste to be processed. But there is a great amount of flexibility in the definition of oozing. That tremendous flexibility is why it would be unhelpful to put an exact number on it. It's very forgiving. Slow and slower will process. Only rushing water will diminish the value of the bog or under-gravel concept. In my experience, the exact speed of the flow is not going to change the natural processes. When we build a pond, we calculate the flow for ornamental waterfalls and for total circulation (yes ... i still like to turn over small ponds at least twice an hour ... and larger ponds once an hour ... and in very large ponds sometimes much less) ... but I use only a portion of those flows in my grids or bogs. The smaller the grid or bog, the smaller the portion of the whole pond's flow that should go thru it. So if your pond is about 25,000 gallons (which it could be given what you have told me) with such a light fish load, your flow could be very moderate, but lets say you went with 12,000 gph. Of course with our pond building style, we would do uplift in the bog and suction on the pond bottom. In my example, you could easily ooze up to half of that flow rate thru such a large bog and grid, still leaving you with 6000 gph to run over a beautiful and dramatic waterfall which will produce beauty, sound and aeration. I hope that is helpful. I don't come to RUclips too often - feel free to directly email pond questions to nate@practicalgardenponds.com for product and application advise. Enjoying your pond!
Hi Anthony, If the pool is in good enough condition and holds water there is no specific reason why you would have to add a liner. Though adding a liner would give you some additional options like building in a skimmer in a corner outside the liner. The color would also change. But you could use rocks, plants and so forth to change the appearance as well. Enjoy
Thank you for your question. I do actually have a 120 watt UV on my pond. I am not sure that i really need it, but I like the fact that in addition to preventing any possibility of planktonic algae, it also kills the water born stages of some parasites, and therefore could keep my fish healthier. As far as green water goes, the four fold filtration system certainly lowers the probability of green water, since it uses up nutrients and keeps the pond cleaner, but only a properly sized and working UV will absolutely prevent green water. Sincerely, Nate
Hi ToySpeed ... excellent question. About a month later i did add a UV ... 120 watt unit. I don't usually need it but felt it was a good idea. Really would not need it as far as green water goes, most of the time, but i like what it also does to prevent the spread of many parasites that have water born stages. Thank so for your question and your support of Helix!
Hi Debbie, Sorry for the slow reply, the Covid19 year has been extra busy and I haven't been able to keep up with all forms of communication. I can relate to having issues with Aquarium UG filters, but ponds really are different. In fact, we don't recommend UG Suction Grids on shallow ponds. We also do recommend using a good Beneficial Bacteria that breaks down sludge regularly ... AT VERY LEAST once in the spring every year. When Suction Grids are built the way we recommend, starting with the ponds being at least 3' deep, and Sludge Away or a similarly effective product is used at least each spring, we have many years of experience that back up our claim that a properly built UG Suction Grid will remain unclogged and effective. I can personally attest to one pond that has not been cleaned for 30 years and it looks as clear and clean on the bottom as my own pond built in 2018. I do have several forms of filtration, a good Helix skimmer, an Evolution Aqua K+ Bead Filter, a Helix Moving Bed, the UG Suction Grid and multiple bogs. But my pond is very low maintenance, crystal clear and the water tests perfectly. But you are right, i would not expect the same results in an Aquarium. Thanks for your interest! We have plans we share freely with customers for building a UG Suction Grid you will be happy with for many years. Please feel free to email or call us!
Hi Tony, We certainly do combine new technology (there is nothing outdated about a Helix Moving Bed Filter or Skimmer) with tried and true methods like plant filtration and self cleaning suctions grids which have been around a very long time. And I guess nature has been around since the stone age. Some concepts remain valuable even when they are not new anymore. I think the key is finding something that works well for you. I like the appearance of rocks and gravel and plants. My pond is very low maintenance and crystal clear, and it doesn't cost a lot to keep it running. For these reasons we feel the concepts are worth sharing but they certainly will not be for everyone. On our website we offer many different technologies and options, not just the ones we prefer for our own pond. I wish you well with your pond methods of choice.
Hats off after 20 plus years in aquatics trade simplicity and good advice... As nature intended 👌✌️✌️
Thanks for the kind words Chris!
Excellent
Thank you!
Hello Nate, does the UG suction grid pulling the water and the waste out of the pond or pushing the water/air to the pond? The word suction in UG suction grid confusing me, makes me think that the water is being sucked out of the pond and into the bog/ filter .
Hi Petro, Thank you for your interest. We use the word suction, because the water is drawn down thru the gravel in a "suction grid" and not pushed up thru the gravel as it is in an up-flow bog or living plant filter. The water is not really taken out of the pond, it is cycled thru the gravel (and preferably then up thru the up-flow bog) and processed by the bacteria in the gravel and if any, the plants in the bog. Sincerely, Nate
Hey Nate, would an outdoor system like this work for saltwater with of course some substitutions?
Hi Sage, My filtration, would work for salt water. The external pump can be purchased with saltwater seals which would make it okay. So most of it would work perfectly fine with salt water. I don't think my lights would hold up under those conditions. My question for you is what you plan to keep in it. When i think of a marine tank i think of tropical fish. Tropical fish would not holdup over the winter where i live, but temperate fish would be fine. For sure, the under-gravel suction grid, the right external pump, the moving bed filter and probably the Evo K+ Microbead filter would all be just fine in that application. It sounds like an interesting undertaking. Feel free to email me directly with more specific questions. nate@practicalgardenponds.com
Also Nate, is this UG suction grid has to run 24/7 or couple hours a day.
Yes, we strongly recommend that the under-gravel suction grid and any biological filtration of any kind, be run 24/7 (in season) in any pond. Since this is a natural process that depends on live beneficial bacteria, it is important to keep feeding that bacteria and continuing to keep oxygen coming to it. Therefore, it should run all season. Sincerely, Nate
Hello guys , congrats on your wonderful videos. I have a question that never gets discussed. How do we calculate the correct amount of water that should travel through a bog filter per hour? I am planning to build my pond with a surface area of about 600 sqft and depth of around 6 feet. I want to have a very large bog of about the same size of the pond approx 500sqft. I will have about 5-10 koi fish. Also the bottom of the pond will have gravel and water will pumped through the gravel up flow. I would like to know how how much water per hour I should pump through the pond and how much through the up flow system on bottom of the pond. I never found anybody that discussed this topic....glad to hear your input.
Hi Habita, I can understand your question and the feeling that it doesn't really get answered. You may end up feeling like I didn't answer it either because to me its a concept, not a number. The concept is that a bog or under-gravel grid (be it suction or upflow) should ooze water thru the bacteria and plants slowly. Racing water will strip nutrients away from the plants and push organic debris thru the gravel. But a lazy flow will allow the nutrients to be absorbed and the organic waste to be processed. But there is a great amount of flexibility in the definition of oozing. That tremendous flexibility is why it would be unhelpful to put an exact number on it. It's very forgiving. Slow and slower will process. Only rushing water will diminish the value of the bog or under-gravel concept. In my experience, the exact speed of the flow is not going to change the natural processes. When we build a pond, we calculate the flow for ornamental waterfalls and for total circulation (yes ... i still like to turn over small ponds at least twice an hour ... and larger ponds once an hour ... and in very large ponds sometimes much less) ... but I use only a portion of those flows in my grids or bogs. The smaller the grid or bog, the smaller the portion of the whole pond's flow that should go thru it. So if your pond is about 25,000 gallons (which it could be given what you have told me) with such a light fish load, your flow could be very moderate, but lets say you went with 12,000 gph. Of course with our pond building style, we would do uplift in the bog and suction on the pond bottom. In my example, you could easily ooze up to half of that flow rate thru such a large bog and grid, still leaving you with 6000 gph to run over a beautiful and dramatic waterfall which will produce beauty, sound and aeration. I hope that is helpful. I don't come to RUclips too often - feel free to directly email pond questions to nate@practicalgardenponds.com for product and application advise. Enjoying your pond!
Is it necessary to add a liner to an old pool? For a pond conversion
Hi Anthony, If the pool is in good enough condition and holds water there is no specific reason why you would have to add a liner. Though adding a liner would give you some additional options like building in a skimmer in a corner outside the liner. The color would also change. But you could use rocks, plants and so forth to change the appearance as well. Enjoy
No UV light needed with such filtration system?
Thank you for your question. I do actually have a 120 watt UV on my pond. I am not sure that i really need it, but I like the fact that in addition to preventing any possibility of planktonic algae, it also kills the water born stages of some parasites, and therefore could keep my fish healthier. As far as green water goes, the four fold filtration system certainly lowers the probability of green water, since it uses up nutrients and keeps the pond cleaner, but only a properly sized and working UV will absolutely prevent green water. Sincerely, Nate
No uv? Good to see Helix being used👍
Hi ToySpeed ... excellent question. About a month later i did add a UV ... 120 watt unit. I don't usually need it but felt it was a good idea. Really would not need it as far as green water goes, most of the time, but i like what it also does to prevent the spread of many parasites that have water born stages. Thank so for your question and your support of Helix!
Totally untrue that you don’t have to clean that under gravel filter, anyone who has had an aquarium with the same kind of filter will tell you
aquarium is different than a pond
Hi Debbie, Sorry for the slow reply, the Covid19 year has been extra busy and I haven't been able to keep up with all forms of communication. I can relate to having issues with Aquarium UG filters, but ponds really are different. In fact, we don't recommend UG Suction Grids on shallow ponds. We also do recommend using a good Beneficial Bacteria that breaks down sludge regularly ... AT VERY LEAST once in the spring every year. When Suction Grids are built the way we recommend, starting with the ponds being at least 3' deep, and Sludge Away or a similarly effective product is used at least each spring, we have many years of experience that back up our claim that a properly built UG Suction Grid will remain unclogged and effective. I can personally attest to one pond that has not been cleaned for 30 years and it looks as clear and clean on the bottom as my own pond built in 2018. I do have several forms of filtration, a good Helix skimmer, an Evolution Aqua K+ Bead Filter, a Helix Moving Bed, the UG Suction Grid and multiple bogs. But my pond is very low maintenance, crystal clear and the water tests perfectly. But you are right, i would not expect the same results in an Aquarium. Thanks for your interest! We have plans we share freely with customers for building a UG Suction Grid you will be happy with for many years. Please feel free to email or call us!
Stone age pond building
educate ya self..you'll learn something...
Hi Tony, We certainly do combine new technology (there is nothing outdated about a Helix Moving Bed Filter or Skimmer) with tried and true methods like plant filtration and self cleaning suctions grids which have been around a very long time. And I guess nature has been around since the stone age. Some concepts remain valuable even when they are not new anymore. I think the key is finding something that works well for you. I like the appearance of rocks and gravel and plants. My pond is very low maintenance and crystal clear, and it doesn't cost a lot to keep it running. For these reasons we feel the concepts are worth sharing but they certainly will not be for everyone. On our website we offer many different technologies and options, not just the ones we prefer for our own pond. I wish you well with your pond methods of choice.