Uber drivers had no idea what was going on and clogged up the chargers spots. They plugged in at negative temperature and current battery technology won't charge below 32°F. The chargers were warming up the car battery but not charging until it reaches 32. They said it was broken.
@@NorthernEVexperience Also would have had no issues if Elon had put in all those nice warm tunnels. Uber doesn't need to build charging hubs if there are more public chargers.
I live in Vancouver and have been thinking of purchasing an EV for my next car. It's been extremely cold (for us) and I've heard so many horror stories. Thank you for your thoughtful content. There is so much to consider and you have been helpful.
Thank you so much for your kind words! I'm glad that my content has been helpful to you in making such an important decision. If you have any specific questions or concerns, feel free to reach out. I'm here to help!
Kyle has a video from a year ago where he FROZE his Model 3 in sub-zero temps for several days, then plugged in while frozen, and it took an hour to warm enough to begin slowly charging,,,, but it charged eventually.
Norway, Finland and Sweden have -40 winters. 25% of their vehicles are e.v.’s. There is zero videos of them ever having a problem. That’s Real Reality. The Chicago videos are Social Media Reality. The fact is that it takes a certain level of intelligence to own an e.v. Apparently Chicago lacks in that department. But, you’ll never hear that on Social Media Reality videos.
That wasnt extreme cold.. It was -45°C here in western canada that day... Btw, -45°C is equal to -49°F My gas car didnt have its fuel tank half emptied by the cold, it was toasty warm in the drivers seat and didnt burn up half my travel range to be warm, it ran just fine all week, and it didnt cost me an extra $20k-100k to be forced into being stressed about recharging its battery whenever I wanted to go somewhere. I fail to see anything negative about driving with gas instead of electricity. Even if it is bad for the climate, I'd rather it be a few degrees warmer on a yearly average.
If your gas car is better in your situation, go for it. Who cares about EVs in that case. My lifestyle affords me to have an EV that charges at home for $0.16/kWh and free at work. About 80% local driving. Charging tech/infrastructure will improve, along with battery tech. Wait another 4-5 years for it all to mature.
@@The1Mischief Hmmm. I can charge at home in Alberta for $0.31/KW-h and $0.59 at Tesla SC. But it's not really just $0.31/KW-h because I have to use L1, and it spends hours just heating the battery. 19 hours to add 10% charge, at -15 C. So when I buy 27 KW-h and 7.5 KW=h goes into the battery, it's costing me $1.12 per KWh, which at 200 W-h per KM is 22 cents per KM. Our Toyota costs 6 cents per KM for gasoline. My lifestyle affords it, but I don't delude myself that it's super cheap.
@@RandyTWester That proves my point exactly. You're in a colder climate, therefore more energy is needed. Combine with your rate, it's economically inefficient for an EV. I'm in a warmer climate with cheaper kWh rates. Opposite situation, as my Toyota was inefficient. You're preaching to the choir but throwing an anecdotal to support your bias. So again, if gas is better, stay with gas. Who cares
One video I watched was from a Tesla fan, that tested how his car would charge in the cold without preconditioning it. The car needed ~45 minutes to precondition and then another hour to charge. If you leave your EV unplugged overnight, you're going to see a significant drop in battery level the next morning and you might need to go to a fast charger. Even if you did leave on a full battery, it's not going to last as long, and you might need to recharge at a fast charger to make it to your destination. In conclusion: during extreme cold events there is going to be significantly more demand for fast charging. Next there are bound to be a few people who didn't precondition their vehicle overnight and are going to keep that fast charger occupied much longer than if they had done so. If you are ever going to see a queue at the fast charger it is going to be in those cold mornings. And with such cold the people waiting in line are going to deplete their batteries, or if they turn everything off to save their batteries, the temperature of their battery is going to drop. As you state, we need to improve the charging infrastructure for cold weather events, but building a ton of fast chargers is not the answer. It is prohibitively expensive, and the grid will not be able to handle it. I am from the Netherlands and here we see at many gas stations there are also fast chargers operated by different companies. The gas stations want a piece of the action and operate level 2 chargers at lower prices than the fast chargers - those are good locations to precondition your battery or just wait in line until the fast charger becomes available. We need a couple of fast chargers at each site, with a couple of slower fast chargers (50 kW) and finally a bunch of level 2 chargers. Pricing should steer people to the right charger. And yes, we need to educate the people and get the word out on how to avoid such problems. Thank you for making this video.
Hey Thanks for your comment. Go FastNed! as I said we really need way more level 2 chargers wherever cars park so that people can charge while they park. Fast chargers really should be the odd case not the norm. From one Dutchman to another, Thanks again for commenting.
@@NorthernEVexperience I am not a huge fan of FastNed or the other fast chargers. They are focused exclusively on fast charging while we need slow-charge infrastructure at those same sites as well to grow the infrastructure efficiently. Installing more fast chargers when demand increases is not going to work when facing limited grid capacity. If you look at parking lots along highways, you see that there are no level 2 chargers, unless there happens to be a gas station or restaurant as well, that has a couple. Municipalities have a good plan for level 2 chargers, but those plans are limited to residential areas. The Ministry of Infrastructure (...) in the Netherlands has work to do.
I don't believe a battery loses charge from the cold, it loses capacity. If you warm the battery up, it seems like it should free some of that charge. In other words, your solution is to precondition your battery. It will help both charging and range.
@@richardryley3660 Yes, I believe you are right that the range lost from the low temperature, will be regained when you heat up the battery. If you use the battery while it is cold, you will not get the same amount of energy out of it. If you heat up the battery after draining it empty, you might get some more juice out of it, but not much. Also be aware that vehicles use a significant amount of energy to precondition the vehicle, warm the vehicle interior, etc. Furthermore, you want to give batteries that are low charge some more charge, because that also enables them to charge faster once they hook up to the fast charger. Finally, level 2 chargers can add a significant amount of charge, so it's definitely about more than preconditioning. Some level 2 chargers in my country (the Netherlands) provide up to 22 kW AC. 11 kW charging is the standard, but some vehicles (especially vans) can charge at 22 kW. Also, I think we need to have a smart queuing system at fast chargers, that doesn't just select the next one in line (so there cannot be an argument about who's next), but also selects based on which vehicle is best preconditioned to accept the charge (especially during hot and cold weather). If you have a cold battery while there are other people waiting in line have a well preconditioned battery, the smart charger should just refuse you.
@@GerbenWulff Yeah it seems to me if the ions can't flow through the electrolyte because it is frozen, thawing it should let them through. I expect some loss though. I am curious about whether spending the energy to warm the battery is more efficient than just running it cold and taking the hit. It probably depends on the efficiency of the heating system and how far below freezing it is. I have heard of cars that were preconditioning while driving to the Supercharger and unable to make it to charging temperature because it couldn't heat up fast enough. What you want to do in that case is throw a blanket over the battery, or keep it in a semi warm garage.
Ev is faster, safer, cheaper, and more advanced. And you’re conclusion for why people bought it is hugging trees 😂😂😂 Of all the possible conclusions you could have came up with this is the most embarrassing
As has been shown in Melbourne Australia. The grid is pretty much maxed out and to incorporate or retro fit fast charging to apartment complexes, the grid has to be completely rebuilt right back to the power generation source. Not that simple. The generation source will also then need a massive upgrade/expansion to supply the new needs. People simply don't understand what the gross needs ad up to. It's completely preposterous and not attainable........ do some research for heavens sake.
Actually I have done a lot of research, and the fact that many nations have been underinvesting in their grid does not mean it's impossible. In my profession I deal with engineers and grid operators fairly often and I can tell you with certainty it is not impossible, it is simply hard, but this is no moonshot it's well within our capability. For the record I did not say to put fast chargers in every apartment building I said to put level 2 chargers in every building, this is much easier for the grid to handle and is all you will need. Fast chargers should only every be for exceptional circumstances not daily use.
I've got a photograph of a corner store in a little outback town back in the early 1920's where it had a single gasoline pump and it was the only source of gasoline for many miles around. It was not all that dissimilar to how we are with DCFC in (the non-urban) centres of Canada right now. Infrastructure takes time to build out and when DCFC is as easy as popping down to your local convenience store gas station we'll be in a much better place to handle events like this. L2 charging at home is a must in cold weather, but unfortunately for a lot of people that simply is and will not ever be an option. It'll come eventually.
I'll let you enjoy the struggle. Until the infrastructure is in place, the cars do not lose 50-70% of their range due to the cold and using the heater, and whatever miracle happens that creates enough electricity to charge a few hundred million cars, I'll stick to what works, is cheaper, can be repaired in my own garage etc.
In 1979, just about every driver in America had to wait for an hour for a chance to refuel every other day. Some people ran out of gas waiting in lines and we helped push them into the stations.
It's not simple, because if the charge level is too low there won't be enough energy in the battery to warm it up, and if it sits overnight at 20% charge, maybe not enough to get a couple miles to a charger. I talked to a guy who was boosting his 12 volt battery after getting help to push it up to the Supercharger. It's simplest to put a gas fired furnace in your garage, or maybe save up and move somewhere warmer when you retire.
I live in Norway and I am not driving an EV at this moment. But we a have a lot of EVs and temperature that low is not unknown to us here in the winter time at all. And Tesla has a lot charging stations here also. This problem is unknown to me. Trust me if had been an issue. It would have been a lot of talk about it in the media and people would have been really furious . But so far nada zip zilch over a ten year period. You get a reduced range with ANY EVs in the winter that is well known and people are informed about is and accept it. But a failure at this magnitude is totally unknown to me,. Again I do not drive an EV so I have no dog in this fight
With ICE vehicles, cold temperatures only affect the initial start up of the engine. Once running, cold temperatures only minimally reduce fuel economy. With EV, sub freezing temperatures will impact the vehicle all the time.
Actually I used to commute 200 kms round trip in my Chevrolet Bolt and I did that for about 4 years. Every day year round, even in a polar vortex once. Still ended up at home with about 25% in the battery and on the polar vortex day about 10%. I ran my heat and drove like a normal person. This is the reality of owning an EV from someone who has owned an EV for almost 7 years now and bought my second one already.
There was a time when driving a car required you be a pretty good mechanic because they were temperamental and fragile. And in -20 degrees F, they still can be. That said, the only time I have had a car immobilized was in Colorado in -25F after I drove it for just a few minutes and then parked it (bad idea). These days, unless you live in Alaska or some very cold climate, you can generally just drive the car, fill up when needed, and not worry about it. Driving an Ev requires someone who is really dedicated to doing so because you're right back in that Ford Model T era (or earlier) and everything is new and fragile. You can make it work, but only with effort and not everyone wants or is prepared to expend that effort. Wait to FORCE people into EVs until they are largely trouble free (or else instead of being forced to drive EVs, they will check the politician out of office, or maybe do something more extreme).
Actually I used to commute 200 kms round trip in my Chevrolet Bolt and I did that for about 4 years. Every day year round, even in a polar vortex once. Still ended up at home with about 25% in the battery and on the polar vortex day about 10%. I ran my heat and drove like a normal person. This is the reality of owning an EV from someone who has owned an EV for almost 7 years now and bought my second one already. In that time I have not had one breakdown on my car, I've done tires, I had a warranty job on my side mirrors, and a warranty replacement on the traction battery that cost me nothing. If this is what you call a model T, I can't wait till we get up to Studebaker's, they should really blow ICE away.
nah if you keep your charge above 20% it should be fine to get to the charger, and as I said we need more L2 home charging especially for Apartment buildings, then there is no issue at all.
Adding L2 charging might need additional transformer or distribution capacity, and that is NOT cheap. I've heard of a homeowner being asked to pay $12,000 for a bigger transformer in order to upgrade his home electrical service. Our condo board is very confused about what we need, which is at minimum L1 charging in the heated parkade, they think they need to double the size of the building service and electrical room instead of adding at least one, 20 KW AC pay charger.
You probably don't need to upgrade the grid connection if you have dynamic load balancing (search for more info about this on the internet). With dynamic load balancing, you are most likely to have lower charging speeds during the day. One solution to alleviate this problem is adding solar. For safety reasons, if you can add chargers away from the building, then do that. Fires are rare, but the consequences can be dramatic.
I would largely agree with @GerbenWulff , as most charging is done at night you are mostly off setting the buildings peak daytime/ evening use number. I would not worry about the fires thing this has been very overblown in the media, the reality is that 0.0012% of EV's catch fire while internal combustion engines are more likely to catch fire about 0.1%. Neither is a high number but EV's are way lower. Check out this promotional video on Commercial Level 2 Charging from Siemens ruclips.net/video/T8LQryGLLb4/видео.htmlsi=wSoR5rD-KOFRzqDR
Some very wise things said there about type 2 charging, and how DC charging should only be necessary for people on long road trips. Please come over here to Scotland and shout this very loudly. Way too few places have type 2 chargers. Councils aren't installing them, and when they do they put 4-hour time limits on them! Leisure destinations aren't installing them. Even hotels are putting in a few DC chargers instead of equipping half their car parking spaces with AC chargers. We need a future where everyone who parks an EV for any length of time has the option to put it on an appropriate-powered charger if they want to. And we need it soon. Sometimes that will be a DC charger, if you're only stopping for a snack before continuing your journey, but far more often it will be a type 2. Type 2 chargers need to be seen as EV-equipped parking spaces, not as a resource you have to queue for, and which you have to leave at the end of your turn, even if you're half way through a meal or a film, or if you're asleep in bed. If there are lots of these around, and they're cheap as chips to install compared to DC chargers, then people who can't charge at home will still be able to run EVs with no worries.
I agree 100%, I remember an out of spec reviews video with Kyle in Norway, where he goes into this parking garage where he asks the attendant how many parking space they have with charges for ev's the guy said something like 462. Kyle thinking the guy misunderstood him he said "no i mean how many spots have chargers?" The guy said 462, when he went into the garage every single spot had a charger. Got to love Norway! Thanks for commenting
It must be LiFePO4, Lithium Iron Phosphate battery EVs, who are in the biggest trouble? They can't be charged below 0C. That'll be Teslas, BYD and other EVs with Chinese origin batteries? I drive around with NCM cells, and they do charge slower and with reduced capacity, but they basically work the same down to -15C to -20C.
No NCM cells also have trouble in the cold as did the my bolt and the Ioniq 5, but I really don't know much yet about LFP so if someone in the community wants to chime in please do.
Below freezing, all lithium batteries need to be heated before they can be charged. Lithium Iron Phosphate have higher resistance than other chemistries when cold, but as far as I know none of them can be charged if the cells are below about 5 degrees C.
@@RandyTWester Not according to Samsumg and the cell datasheet. It specifies lover charge and discharge rates obviously. Possibly also a higher minimum DoD, I can't remember.
I was looking for the “whole truth” about the charging problem in Chicago. Instead, the vast majority of the content was general advice for owners of both ICE and electric vehicles. Instead of reporting the “whole truth” it came off to me as more of a rant with delivering your grievances against the problems experienced by EV users. Some of the anecdotal reports coming out of Chicago has users saying the were plugged in for 3-8 hours and they never got to fast charging which seems to fly in the face of what you are reporting. My understanding of Tesla’s when connecting to a SuperCharger is that it will (use energy from the SuperCharger) heat the battery enough to facilitate DC Fast Charging. As and EE (NL Canada) myself, I would prefer that even the uninformed user should still be able (not encouraged) to charge without any premeditation of what is required to optimize charging - the penalty being more time spent at the SuperCharger and perhaps a fee associated with that. The point I fully agreed upon is for the vehicle to report an appropriate message on the screen something like - “Battery too cold for DC Fast Charging. Please standby until the battery can be warmed up and fast charging can be started.” I am disappointed with the title of this video as I didn’t feel my time was well spent. I was expecting you had more to report than the content provided. I did not raise a complaint, but it is like clickbait in some respects. “I don’t know what they did in Chicago” (30:14 in the video), “but they did something wrong”. This is very far from reporting “the whole truth” IMO. I realize you don’t have a lot of subscribers yet. I subscribed because I wanted to hear a Canadian point of view. Please up your game.
You seem to advise the government should use tax dollars to build chargers for those who “choose” to drive EVs. When was the last time the government funded a petrol station for the convenience of ICE drivers?
actually every freaking time. The petroleum industry gets generous tax breaks every time they build anything, in just about the most profitable industry out there.@@davidmager2827
I will stick with my fossil fuel-powered truck. I have found other more economical ways to help protect the environment. EVs belong in the southern US states not in the Northern Hemisphere.
All of the US states except Hawaii are in the Northern Hemisphere eh? But I know what you meant. The lower mainland of BC needs these cars more than Edmonton does.
Lets watch a bit longer. - Plugging in your car is an overnight procedure not a 5 minutes experience.- - "But they travel more slowly through the electrolyte when it gets cold and don't release as much energy. That cuts into the range and can deplete a battery faster." That false statement keeps being repeated. There is no electrolyte in a LiPo battery, the lie stops right there. Next. through
@@NorthernEVexperience Two different thing. Electrolyte a medium to move electron all batteries have that. Electrolyte as acid base in Lead acid battery, specific to LAB batteries.
What about EVs in scandanavia? I would like to see how other countries are getting on because it takes too many clicks to find good american content. Interesting point about preconditioning.
The Tesla also smugly informs the driver that he should have used 'Navigate to Supercharger' when he lives only 10 minutes away from the Supercharger, and did exactly that, but the battery still isn't warm enough to charge at the high rate. But the driver doesn't care, because Tesla now bills by the KW-h instead of by the minute, and he has a CCS adapter and knows Canadian Tire's 50 KW FLO charger costs less.
Great video! The heading that EVs failed in the cold was all wrong. EVs (charged ones anyway) are awesome in the cold - always go. Charging though can be slower and fast chargers can fail (from snow in the plugs for example). Gas cars on the other hand don't like the extreme cold at all - but the gas pumps generally work.
True the thumbnail does say that but thats the story thats out there for the most part and I want people to click in and here the rest of the story. Thanks for commenting!
@NorthernEVexperience Ss a tech designer with 15 years of battery systems, I say BALONEY! Tell, them to show this on an endurance run like my Chevy Bolt had and beat out the other expensive EVs.
It’s not a big it a feature….ev owners are delusional….what a pain in the A, I don’t need, I also don’t like the fact my tax money is subsidizing this stupid expensive experimental idea, is the EV was actually viable , no subsidies would be needed. Full stop, no political mandate would be needed, and the mental gymnastics like the guy above is telling you so you don’t freeze to death? Ya no….the EV is not ready for prime time. If it was, they wouldn’t be piling up at dealers, they would not be 50k, they would not need the tax payer to flip the bill.
Sorry watch some other episodes where I explain how all those things you mentioned just are not true. Yes there are subsidies but then big oil gets those too.
I never got any of your tax money, there was zero subsidy on any of the three electric cars we've bought in Alberta so far. But some of the charging operators got some, and there was that $2 billion the NDP used to buy out the coal Power Purchase Agreements in Alberta, and the 'Regulated Rate Cap' deal where people who didn't plan ahead and get a fixed price power contract got part of their power bill paid from general Alberta tax revenue.
Uber drivers had no idea what was going on and clogged up the chargers spots. They plugged in at negative temperature and current battery technology won't charge below 32°F. The chargers were warming up the car battery but not charging until it reaches 32. They said it was broken.
He also lost money didn’t he? That would not have been lost had he had an ice car. It’s that simple. And you don’t get it.
Thanks for your comment
he would not have had any issues if he had a level 2 home charger, or if uber built some charging hubs.
Yeh, the people who spend more time in cars than most other drivers are the problem, not the technology and infrastructure.
@@NorthernEVexperience Also would have had no issues if Elon had put in all those nice warm tunnels. Uber doesn't need to build charging hubs if there are more public chargers.
I live in Vancouver and have been thinking of purchasing an EV for my next car. It's been extremely cold (for us) and I've heard so many horror stories. Thank you for your thoughtful content. There is so much to consider and you have been helpful.
Thank you so much for your kind words! I'm glad that my content has been helpful to you in making such an important decision. If you have any specific questions or concerns, feel free to reach out. I'm here to help!
Kyle has a video from a year ago where he FROZE his Model 3 in sub-zero temps for several days, then plugged in while frozen, and it took an hour to warm enough to begin slowly charging,,,, but it charged eventually.
Yes great video it really gets into it, check it out every body.
Norway, Finland and Sweden have -40 winters. 25% of their vehicles are e.v.’s. There is zero videos of them ever having a problem. That’s Real Reality. The Chicago videos are Social Media Reality. The fact is that it takes a certain level of intelligence to own an e.v. Apparently Chicago lacks in that department. But, you’ll never hear that on Social Media Reality videos.
I agree with most of what you said but as a Canadian I can't say that about somebody else it's just not polite. Thanks for commenting
That wasnt extreme cold..
It was -45°C here in western canada that day...
Btw, -45°C is equal to -49°F
My gas car didnt have its fuel tank half emptied by the cold, it was toasty warm in the drivers seat and didnt burn up half my travel range to be warm, it ran just fine all week, and it didnt cost me an extra $20k-100k to be forced into being stressed about recharging its battery whenever I wanted to go somewhere.
I fail to see anything negative about driving with gas instead of electricity. Even if it is bad for the climate, I'd rather it be a few degrees warmer on a yearly average.
I wish a few degrees warmer didn't come with more wildfires, floods, storms, etc.
If your gas car is better in your situation, go for it. Who cares about EVs in that case.
My lifestyle affords me to have an EV that charges at home for $0.16/kWh and free at work. About 80% local driving.
Charging tech/infrastructure will improve, along with battery tech. Wait another 4-5 years for it all to mature.
@@The1Mischief Hmmm. I can charge at home in Alberta for $0.31/KW-h and $0.59 at Tesla SC. But it's not really just $0.31/KW-h because I have to use L1, and it spends hours just heating the battery. 19 hours to add 10% charge, at -15 C. So when I buy 27 KW-h and 7.5 KW=h goes into the battery, it's costing me $1.12 per KWh, which at 200 W-h per KM is 22 cents per KM. Our Toyota costs 6 cents per KM for gasoline. My lifestyle affords it, but I don't delude myself that it's super cheap.
@@RandyTWester That proves my point exactly. You're in a colder climate, therefore more energy is needed. Combine with your rate, it's economically inefficient for an EV.
I'm in a warmer climate with cheaper kWh rates. Opposite situation, as my Toyota was inefficient.
You're preaching to the choir but throwing an anecdotal to support your bias. So again, if gas is better, stay with gas. Who cares
One video I watched was from a Tesla fan, that tested how his car would charge in the cold without preconditioning it. The car needed ~45 minutes to precondition and then another hour to charge.
If you leave your EV unplugged overnight, you're going to see a significant drop in battery level the next morning and you might need to go to a fast charger. Even if you did leave on a full battery, it's not going to last as long, and you might need to recharge at a fast charger to make it to your destination. In conclusion: during extreme cold events there is going to be significantly more demand for fast charging.
Next there are bound to be a few people who didn't precondition their vehicle overnight and are going to keep that fast charger occupied much longer than if they had done so.
If you are ever going to see a queue at the fast charger it is going to be in those cold mornings. And with such cold the people waiting in line are going to deplete their batteries, or if they turn everything off to save their batteries, the temperature of their battery is going to drop.
As you state, we need to improve the charging infrastructure for cold weather events, but building a ton of fast chargers is not the answer. It is prohibitively expensive, and the grid will not be able to handle it. I am from the Netherlands and here we see at many gas stations there are also fast chargers operated by different companies. The gas stations want a piece of the action and operate level 2 chargers at lower prices than the fast chargers - those are good locations to precondition your battery or just wait in line until the fast charger becomes available. We need a couple of fast chargers at each site, with a couple of slower fast chargers (50 kW) and finally a bunch of level 2 chargers. Pricing should steer people to the right charger.
And yes, we need to educate the people and get the word out on how to avoid such problems. Thank you for making this video.
Hey Thanks for your comment. Go FastNed!
as I said we really need way more level 2 chargers wherever cars park so that people can charge while they park. Fast chargers really should be the odd case not the norm. From one Dutchman to another, Thanks again for commenting.
@@NorthernEVexperience I am not a huge fan of FastNed or the other fast chargers. They are focused exclusively on fast charging while we need slow-charge infrastructure at those same sites as well to grow the infrastructure efficiently. Installing more fast chargers when demand increases is not going to work when facing limited grid capacity. If you look at parking lots along highways, you see that there are no level 2 chargers, unless there happens to be a gas station or restaurant as well, that has a couple. Municipalities have a good plan for level 2 chargers, but those plans are limited to residential areas. The Ministry of Infrastructure (...) in the Netherlands has work to do.
I don't believe a battery loses charge from the cold, it loses capacity. If you warm the battery up, it seems like it should free some of that charge.
In other words, your solution is to precondition your battery. It will help both charging and range.
@@richardryley3660 Yes, I believe you are right that the range lost from the low temperature, will be regained when you heat up the battery. If you use the battery while it is cold, you will not get the same amount of energy out of it. If you heat up the battery after draining it empty, you might get some more juice out of it, but not much.
Also be aware that vehicles use a significant amount of energy to precondition the vehicle, warm the vehicle interior, etc. Furthermore, you want to give batteries that are low charge some more charge, because that also enables them to charge faster once they hook up to the fast charger.
Finally, level 2 chargers can add a significant amount of charge, so it's definitely about more than preconditioning. Some level 2 chargers in my country (the Netherlands) provide up to 22 kW AC. 11 kW charging is the standard, but some vehicles (especially vans) can charge at 22 kW.
Also, I think we need to have a smart queuing system at fast chargers, that doesn't just select the next one in line (so there cannot be an argument about who's next), but also selects based on which vehicle is best preconditioned to accept the charge (especially during hot and cold weather). If you have a cold battery while there are other people waiting in line have a well preconditioned battery, the smart charger should just refuse you.
@@GerbenWulff Yeah it seems to me if the ions can't flow through the electrolyte because it is frozen, thawing it should let them through. I expect some loss though.
I am curious about whether spending the energy to warm the battery is more efficient than just running it cold and taking the hit. It probably depends on the efficiency of the heating system and how far below freezing it is. I have heard of cars that were preconditioning while driving to the Supercharger and unable to make it to charging temperature because it couldn't heat up fast enough.
What you want to do in that case is throw a blanket over the battery, or keep it in a semi warm garage.
Sounds like EV owners should start hugging charging stations instead of trees for the winter.
Ev is faster, safer, cheaper, and more advanced. And you’re conclusion for why people bought it is hugging trees 😂😂😂
Of all the possible conclusions you could have came up with this is the most embarrassing
I think we will be fine
As has been shown in Melbourne Australia. The grid is pretty much maxed out and to incorporate or retro fit fast charging to apartment complexes, the grid has to be completely rebuilt right back to the power generation source. Not that simple. The generation source will also then need a massive upgrade/expansion to supply the new needs.
People simply don't understand what the gross needs ad up to. It's completely preposterous and not attainable........ do some research for heavens sake.
Actually I have done a lot of research, and the fact that many nations have been underinvesting in their grid does not mean it's impossible. In my profession I deal with engineers and grid operators fairly often and I can tell you with certainty it is not impossible, it is simply hard, but this is no moonshot it's well within our capability. For the record I did not say to put fast chargers in every apartment building I said to put level 2 chargers in every building, this is much easier for the grid to handle and is all you will need. Fast chargers should only every be for exceptional circumstances not daily use.
I've got a photograph of a corner store in a little outback town back in the early 1920's where it had a single gasoline pump and it was the only source of gasoline for many miles around. It was not all that dissimilar to how we are with DCFC in (the non-urban) centres of Canada right now. Infrastructure takes time to build out and when DCFC is as easy as popping down to your local convenience store gas station we'll be in a much better place to handle events like this. L2 charging at home is a must in cold weather, but unfortunately for a lot of people that simply is and will not ever be an option. It'll come eventually.
Thank you for your comment, I agree completely
I'll let you enjoy the struggle.
Until the infrastructure is in place, the cars do not lose 50-70% of their range due to the cold and using the heater, and whatever miracle happens that creates enough electricity to charge a few hundred million cars, I'll stick to what works, is cheaper, can be repaired in my own garage etc.
Ev evangelists always talk about what MIGHT be coming in the future, and rarely acknowledged what EVs are today.
In 1979, just about every driver in America had to wait for an hour for a chance to refuel every other day. Some people ran out of gas waiting in lines and we helped push them into the stations.
An where that power coming from? You would need a infrastructure much larger to handle the power.
So turn on the car's heater and let it warm up the batteries and the interior. Simple, yes?
Oh...
It is fairly simple just set the fast charger as your destination in the nav and it will warm the battery
It's not simple, because if the charge level is too low there won't be enough energy in the battery to warm it up, and if it sits overnight at 20% charge, maybe not enough to get a couple miles to a charger. I talked to a guy who was boosting his 12 volt battery after getting help to push it up to the Supercharger. It's simplest to put a gas fired furnace in your garage, or maybe save up and move somewhere warmer when you retire.
@@RandyTWester Maybe the best choice is to admit... "Damn, I could'a had a V8!"
As far as I know the Li-ion batteries should not be charged when their temperature is below freezing (0C) let alone fast charging
Very true that's why it appeared the chargers were not working they were warming the batteries first.
I live in Norway and I am not driving an EV at this moment. But we a have a lot of EVs and temperature that low is not unknown to us here in the winter time at all. And Tesla has a lot charging stations here also. This problem is unknown to me. Trust me if had been an issue. It would have been a lot of talk about it in the media and people would have been really furious . But so far nada zip zilch over a ten year period. You get a reduced range with ANY EVs in the winter that is well known and people are informed about is and accept it. But a failure at this magnitude is totally unknown to me,. Again I do not drive an EV so I have no dog in this fight
Thank you for the comment, it helps for perspective.
With ICE vehicles, cold temperatures only affect the initial start up of the engine. Once running, cold temperatures only minimally reduce fuel economy. With EV, sub freezing temperatures will impact the vehicle all the time.
Actually I used to commute 200 kms round trip in my Chevrolet Bolt and I did that for about 4 years. Every day year round, even in a polar vortex once. Still ended up at home with about 25% in the battery and on the polar vortex day about 10%. I ran my heat and drove like a normal person. This is the reality of owning an EV from someone who has owned an EV for almost 7 years now and bought my second one already.
I have never been to an Electrify America charging station without at least 1 charger not working. Maybe that is a little exaggeration but not much.
pretty much agree, same here on Electrify Canada, They need to get their act together
There was a time when driving a car required you be a pretty good mechanic because they were temperamental and fragile. And in -20 degrees F, they still can be. That said, the only time I have had a car immobilized was in Colorado in -25F after I drove it for just a few minutes and then parked it (bad idea). These days, unless you live in Alaska or some very cold climate, you can generally just drive the car, fill up when needed, and not worry about it. Driving an Ev requires someone who is really dedicated to doing so because you're right back in that Ford Model T era (or earlier) and everything is new and fragile. You can make it work, but only with effort and not everyone wants or is prepared to expend that effort. Wait to FORCE people into EVs until they are largely trouble free (or else instead of being forced to drive EVs, they will check the politician out of office, or maybe do something more extreme).
Actually I used to commute 200 kms round trip in my Chevrolet Bolt and I did that for about 4 years. Every day year round, even in a polar vortex once. Still ended up at home with about 25% in the battery and on the polar vortex day about 10%. I ran my heat and drove like a normal person. This is the reality of owning an EV from someone who has owned an EV for almost 7 years now and bought my second one already. In that time I have not had one breakdown on my car, I've done tires, I had a warranty job on my side mirrors, and a warranty replacement on the traction battery that cost me nothing. If this is what you call a model T, I can't wait till we get up to Studebaker's, they should really blow ICE away.
Precondition a cold battery that is losing charge quickly to get to a charger, I hope you make it and are not stuck in a cold TOMB :(
nah if you keep your charge above 20% it should be fine to get to the charger, and as I said we need more L2 home charging especially for Apartment buildings, then there is no issue at all.
My Tesla is awesome.
Thanks for sharing! Teslas are amazing cars.
Adding L2 charging might need additional transformer or distribution capacity, and that is NOT cheap. I've heard of a homeowner being asked to pay $12,000 for a bigger transformer in order to upgrade his home electrical service. Our condo board is very confused about what we need, which is at minimum L1 charging in the heated parkade, they think they need to double the size of the building service and electrical room instead of adding at least one, 20 KW AC pay charger.
You probably don't need to upgrade the grid connection if you have dynamic load balancing (search for more info about this on the internet). With dynamic load balancing, you are most likely to have lower charging speeds during the day. One solution to alleviate this problem is adding solar.
For safety reasons, if you can add chargers away from the building, then do that. Fires are rare, but the consequences can be dramatic.
I would largely agree with @GerbenWulff , as most charging is done at night you are mostly off setting the buildings peak daytime/ evening use number. I would not worry about the fires thing this has been very overblown in the media, the reality is that 0.0012% of EV's catch fire while internal combustion engines are more likely to catch fire about 0.1%. Neither is a high number but EV's are way lower. Check out this promotional video on Commercial Level 2 Charging from Siemens ruclips.net/video/T8LQryGLLb4/видео.htmlsi=wSoR5rD-KOFRzqDR
Some very wise things said there about type 2 charging, and how DC charging should only be necessary for people on long road trips.
Please come over here to Scotland and shout this very loudly. Way too few places have type 2 chargers. Councils aren't installing them, and when they do they put 4-hour time limits on them! Leisure destinations aren't installing them. Even hotels are putting in a few DC chargers instead of equipping half their car parking spaces with AC chargers.
We need a future where everyone who parks an EV for any length of time has the option to put it on an appropriate-powered charger if they want to. And we need it soon. Sometimes that will be a DC charger, if you're only stopping for a snack before continuing your journey, but far more often it will be a type 2.
Type 2 chargers need to be seen as EV-equipped parking spaces, not as a resource you have to queue for, and which you have to leave at the end of your turn, even if you're half way through a meal or a film, or if you're asleep in bed. If there are lots of these around, and they're cheap as chips to install compared to DC chargers, then people who can't charge at home will still be able to run EVs with no worries.
I agree 100%, I remember an out of spec reviews video with Kyle in Norway, where he goes into this parking garage where he asks the attendant how many parking space they have with charges for ev's the guy said something like 462. Kyle thinking the guy misunderstood him he said "no i mean how many spots have chargers?" The guy said 462, when he went into the garage every single spot had a charger. Got to love Norway! Thanks for commenting
It must be LiFePO4, Lithium Iron Phosphate battery EVs, who are in the biggest trouble? They can't be charged below 0C. That'll be Teslas, BYD and other EVs with Chinese origin batteries? I drive around with NCM cells, and they do charge slower and with reduced capacity, but they basically work the same down to -15C to -20C.
No NCM cells also have trouble in the cold as did the my bolt and the Ioniq 5, but I really don't know much yet about LFP so if someone in the community wants to chime in please do.
Below freezing, all lithium batteries need to be heated before they can be charged. Lithium Iron Phosphate have higher resistance than other chemistries when cold, but as far as I know none of them can be charged if the cells are below about 5 degrees C.
@@RandyTWester Not according to Samsumg and the cell datasheet. It specifies lover charge and discharge rates obviously. Possibly also a higher minimum DoD, I can't remember.
I was looking for the “whole truth” about the charging problem in Chicago. Instead, the vast majority of the content was general advice for owners of both ICE and electric vehicles. Instead of reporting the “whole truth” it came off to me as more of a rant with delivering your grievances against the problems experienced by EV users. Some of the anecdotal reports coming out of Chicago has users saying the were plugged in for 3-8 hours and they never got to fast charging which seems to fly in the face of what you are reporting. My understanding of Tesla’s when connecting to a SuperCharger is that it will (use energy from the SuperCharger) heat the battery enough to facilitate DC Fast Charging. As and EE (NL Canada) myself, I would prefer that even the uninformed user should still be able (not encouraged) to charge without any premeditation of what is required to optimize charging - the penalty being more time spent at the SuperCharger and perhaps a fee associated with that. The point I fully agreed upon is for the vehicle to report an appropriate message on the screen something like - “Battery too cold for DC Fast Charging. Please standby until the battery can be warmed up and fast charging can be started.”
I am disappointed with the title of this video as I didn’t feel my time was well spent. I was expecting you had more to report than the content provided. I did not raise a complaint, but it is like clickbait in some respects. “I don’t know what they did in Chicago” (30:14 in the video), “but they did something wrong”. This is very far from reporting “the whole truth” IMO.
I realize you don’t have a lot of subscribers yet. I subscribed because I wanted to hear a Canadian point of view. Please up your game.
So Noted, thanks for your comments!
You seem to advise the government should use tax dollars to build chargers for those who “choose” to drive EVs. When was the last time the government funded a petrol station for the convenience of ICE drivers?
actually every freaking time. The petroleum industry gets generous tax breaks every time they build anything, in just about the most profitable industry out there.@@davidmager2827
I will stick with my fossil fuel-powered truck. I have found other more economical ways to help protect the environment. EVs belong in the southern US states not in the Northern Hemisphere.
All of the US states except Hawaii are in the Northern Hemisphere eh? But I know what you meant. The lower mainland of BC needs these cars more than Edmonton does.
While I don't agree, being a Canadian EV driver and all, thanks for your comment.
Lets watch a bit longer.
- Plugging in your car is an overnight procedure not a 5 minutes experience.-
- "But they travel more slowly through the electrolyte when it gets cold and don't release as much energy. That cuts into the range and can deplete a battery faster." That false statement keeps being repeated. There is no electrolyte in a LiPo battery, the lie stops right there.
Next.
through
haha the comment lengths has been restricted, we live in a police state.
No one lives at -50C in Canada.
Hilarious.
Actually all batteries have an electrolyte.
Check out this page from Samsung SDI www.samsungsdi.com/column/all/detail/54344.html
Not normally but it does happen, check out this link. www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/Canada/coldest.php
@@NorthernEVexperience Two different thing.
Electrolyte a medium to move electron all batteries have that.
Electrolyte as acid base in Lead acid battery, specific to LAB batteries.
@@NorthernEVexperience he video suggest that in winter a car has to live in a minus 50C environment.
That is simply not true.
What about EVs in scandanavia? I would like to see how other countries are getting on because it takes too many clicks to find good american content. Interesting point about preconditioning.
No problems as far as I can tell, places where they expect to get cold seem to handle it better.
Bjorn Nyland has a great channel and he's driven many EVs into the arctic circle in Norway. www.youtube.com/@bjornnyland
The Tesla informs the driver what to do, including warming the battery.
Tesla is always ahead on this stuff!
The Tesla also smugly informs the driver that he should have used 'Navigate to Supercharger' when he lives only 10 minutes away from the Supercharger, and did exactly that, but the battery still isn't warm enough to charge at the high rate. But the driver doesn't care, because Tesla now bills by the KW-h instead of by the minute, and he has a CCS adapter and knows Canadian Tire's 50 KW FLO charger costs less.
Great video! The heading that EVs failed in the cold was all wrong. EVs (charged ones anyway) are awesome in the cold - always go. Charging though can be slower and fast chargers can fail (from snow in the plugs for example). Gas cars on the other hand don't like the extreme cold at all - but the gas pumps generally work.
True the thumbnail does say that but thats the story thats out there for the most part and I want people to click in and here the rest of the story. Thanks for commenting!
One day. Those EVs may be able to go 500 to a 1000 miles without a charge. That should be a game changer!
Lucid air already gets 520 miles to a charge
@NorthernEVexperience Ss a tech designer with 15 years of battery systems, I say BALONEY! Tell, them to show this on an endurance run like my Chevy Bolt had and beat out the other expensive EVs.
Still Love my Chevy Bolt, the car has personality plus. @@johncipolletti5611
EV's are a catastrophic failure from mining to final disposal.
yeah, no, Check out some of my other videos where I explain why.
More propaganda? No thanks. This failed industry sponsors you.@@NorthernEVexperience
Dont charge in your garage it cpuld catch on fire
Ice cars on fire in garages is more common. Do not start the as a spark is l that you need.
Thats really not a thing
If it's a chevy Bolt that hasn't been updated, that's possible, yes. Or in garages that have bad wiring.
😂stay home😂
No I said Charge at home!
It’s not a big it a feature….ev owners are delusional….what a pain in the A, I don’t need, I also don’t like the fact my tax money is subsidizing this stupid expensive experimental idea, is the EV was actually viable , no subsidies would be needed. Full stop, no political mandate would be needed, and the mental gymnastics like the guy above is telling you so you don’t freeze to death? Ya no….the EV is not ready for prime time. If it was, they wouldn’t be piling up at dealers, they would not be 50k, they would not need the tax payer to flip the bill.
So how do you feel about the billions the ICE car and oil industry gets in subsidies?
Sorry watch some other episodes where I explain how all those things you mentioned just are not true. Yes there are subsidies but then big oil gets those too.
I never got any of your tax money, there was zero subsidy on any of the three electric cars we've bought in Alberta so far. But some of the charging operators got some, and there was that $2 billion the NDP used to buy out the coal Power Purchase Agreements in Alberta, and the 'Regulated Rate Cap' deal where people who didn't plan ahead and get a fixed price power contract got part of their power bill paid from general Alberta tax revenue.