How Idol Showdown Translates A Culture
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- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2024
- Idol Showdown was developed for fans by fans and it's managed to bridge an incredible gap between Vtuber culture and the FGC. In this video, I want to compare its approach to games like Granblue Fantasy Versus, Pokken Tournament, Dragon Ball FighterZ and more! There's a lot of care needed to make a fun solid fighting game out of something that has nothing to do with what we traditionally see as a fighting game and I think Idol Showdown nailed it!
Check out my twitter: / qmanchu1797
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
01:34 - Familiarity
03:55 - Combat
06:28 - Culture
08:44 - Idol Showdown
11:50 - Conclusion 
Игры
to the intro: of course the game is doing well! its free too! it was so easy for me to dip my toes in and try it here and there
That legendary Senchou and Coco clip... The constant nods to Coco... I see you are a man of culture.
Yeah overall, she became my favorite while working on this, glad you could tell lmao
@@qmanchu haha, I like that Coco is still gaining fans even after all this time. She was great back in the day, definitely my favourite.
@@qmanchu greate taste, sir
@@MassiveDestructionSP She's still great ;)
This was remarkably well researched for someone who isn't really in the vtuber/hololive community. Great work!
I had my sources lol
Actually Korone's super is a reference to Last Blade character Shikyoh(later renamed into Mukuro in Last Blade 2), whose lv2 Super carves the enemy in the form of the "Kyou" kanji in the exact manner and animation as Korone when she did the "X"
If you want to see another great game to come out of this community, or if fighting games aren't your speed there is a vampire survivors clone called HoloCure that if it weren't so short could quite possibly be the best game in that niche genre.
vouch, and HoloCure update 0.6 seems to be coming soon so I'm looking forward to that
Ofc it's short, it's still in 0.5 at the moment. It's a slow crawl towards that glorious 1.0
@@CrowitzerTheHoloFan I can't reccommend a game for what it will be, only for what it is.
@Dennis As an Overwatch player, I can not tell you how much I sympathize with this sentiment...
@@blakeverdon4492 my condolances
I feel like whoever doesn't want to play Idol Showdown because "its just silly vtubers" fall into the same category of people that wouldn't play Them's Fightin' Herds because "its just pony stuff". As in, they can't see how great a game is because they just don't like the source material or the nature of the characters. A game can have graphics to die for and stuff, but if the game doesn't play good, and if the online system sucks, then its not a good fighting game. Idol Showdown is, as you say here, a good fighting game. Well designed, well made, and even better, its free and the devs are constantly hearing player feedback to update it and make the game more polished with each passing day.
But The aesthetics of a game are very important to enjoying the game though
I would never be able to really play fighting herd for a prolonged amount of time because i really dont jive with the presentation
Idol showdown looks cool to me though and ill probably try it out
There is a weird intersection of fighting game fans and other genres. On top of the examples you gave, there's also Persona Arena blending fighting games with school-life turn-based RPGs. Like D&D and fighting games? That's Dark Awake. Rhythm games and fighting games? Slap Happy Rhythm Busters. So naturally, there's going to be fighting game fans into Vtubers. And because this is made by fans of both, for fans of both, you get something that is actually really good.
about the voices, botan didnt liked how she sounded on release, so she made an improvised recording in stream, even giving the sound for the machine gun in her super
I'm just glad that the game introduces people to fighting games and hololive. Several of the hololive talents have become addicted to the game.
3:16 I'm pretty sure it's just Ollie who has an actual voice recording before release. Aside from that, most (if not all) of the action voice lines in the game are taken from clips before the release. Then, few days after release, some of the girls provided their voice lines live after they played the game (like Botan). Even those who aren't released from the game provided their share of their voice lines live. Feel free to correct me tho if I miss some things.
Nah you're right. But I made this video after those patches, so yeah
Ollie is basically a fan like everyone else, so they likely were less nervous approaching her lol
Imagine if Ollie's voicelines in the game were just done by sentence-mixing and used her streams as the source like it was from a YTP lmao
@@ArjunTheRageGuy The Morshu memes write themselves
@@NEETKitten yeah, like that one.
Great video. I love how even when you talked about other IPs you always brought it back home and tied it into the main point of the video in a way that felt really clear and satisfying. This felt like a really good lecture from an amazing teacher- so entertaining I didn't even realize I was learning something until it was finished!
Aww shucks I'm really glad you enjoyed! I love making content where I learn about stuff and then try to show off what I came across
As someone who has been a casual watcher of FGC because it's fun and been a big fan of Hololive
This game feels great the last Fighting Game i touched was GG XX Accent Core. This game feels fantastic to the point where i learned how to do quarter circle inputs on keyboard and actually made some combos just on the fly
I'm not good since blockstrings can't be learned via Arcade and Training but it feels fun to just do it
Now fighting games have their claws in you and will never let go. Xrd was my first game and I was addicted to it the moment I was able to land a 632146 (half circle back, forward) super
As a rule of thumb unless the move is obviously slow, any normal cancel (like doing light into medium into heavy) is going to result in a true blockstring. But if you want to test if something is a blockstring in training mode:
1) Record the dummy to first hold block and then start mashing jab
2) try your blockstring on the opponent while they perform this recording making sure the first hit happens while they are doing the initial block
If they are stuck in block through the whole thing then it is a true blockstring; if you are they get hit partway through than that part is not a true blockstring
@@HawooAwooI mean generally I know that all Heavy's and Specials are probably not safe on block
While lights are safe and mediums a gamble
@@lionelk.y7233 you can check how unsafe things by turning on frame data, setting the dummy to block all hits, and then using moves against the dummy and seeing what the frame advantage is
the other power of Idol Showdown is it completely not serious, other fighting game is expensive and serious. Idol Showdown is free, silly and broken.
There is no other title that fit that niches perfectly. It is whole bunch of streamer memes put together as aesthetic.
A game made with love and passion, actually went well? Shockers
best outro yet
I knew nothing about Vtubers or Hololive really before making this.
But that became my favorite thing ever. I listen to it every day
@@qmanchu someone fell down the rabbit hole i see lmao
@@TruckTerrer when the rabbit hole is that cute, how can I not?
the fact that they reference so many niche jokes, moments, and members, even the holostars boys (which many people dont even know about), and yet the game is extremely approachable and fun, is absolutely amazing. ironically oga (from holostars jp) and flayon (from holostars en) are really big fighting game guys, and calli from hololive en loves fighting games too.
Amazing video! So glad so many people are enjoying the game regardless of being hololive fans or not
hey man amazing video, I'm glad that more people outside of the vtuber community can find enjoyment in playing this game and even tho I was already following you from before because your videos are awasome I never thought that you would make a video about IS and I'm so happy about it
new Qmanchu!!! always like hearing your analysis
Beyond Korone, a few other members also have passing interests or have been fans of certain series in the past. Miko plays Soul Calibur on the regular, meanwhile Calliope and Subaru are fans of Guilty Gear (and Calli used to run an Xrd Rev 2 lobby with her viewers).
And now Botan's been hosting official tourneys
hololive fans really are something else. when you create something out of pure passion, it shows.
that, and botan is one of the sickest zoners i’ve ever played in a fighting game. wallbounce combos are like crack lol
Botan is the coolest character hands down
@@dj_koen1265 I feel like that's the magic of IDS
The character reflects the streamers personality in playstyle
Botan collected and cool you can feel it in her playstyle
Suisei controls like a psychopath your goal is to get in and pressure the opponent and open them up to damage an mix
Coco is crass headstrong and confident and you can feel it in her playstyle
I hope Mori Calliope gets added to the roster!
Thank you for the analysis! Whenever these unexpected big events happen its always a beautiful sight to me how the cross of fandoms ends up, I hope we gave a good impression to the FGS community because I sure am glad they all gave us the chance to interact on our passions
An amazing video, Idol Showdown really is some of the best content produced by a fanbase I've seen in recent times and the best oart is knowing it will eventually drag down many of the FGC into our chaotic Rabbit-hole and soon they'll know every reference in the game lol 😈
Splendid video as usual.
To be fair, in the clip at 11:04 that's not an assist. The big dude is part of Aki's move set.
Lol yeah I know. But I feel like that's even more egregious than some of the assists
Idols? Nonono comedian? Yes
Really great analysis, good job!
Thanks a bunch for the video. Very dope content
I just discovered your Charge character video the other day, and Im slowly going through your catalog, you only have 10k subs??? The quality of this channel is definitely 100k worthy at minimum!! Keep up the good work, excited to see your growth!
Haha I'm building up slowly but surely! Thanks for the support!
Watamelon is my fav character
Good shit man, you got a new sub.
Great video. Btw i think they just take most of the voices ingame in the vtuber's streams except ollie.
And then when the game came out and the vtuber themselves played it they decided to to make their own voice acting and do it live on stream. The devs then add the new fresh voice lines to the games in an update. Well some.of them atleast
Well some of the voices got updated.... As per request of the "idols" themselves
P.S. if you wanna know why i put "" on idols.... We memed a lot on hololive being an "idol" company but the talents are natural comedians
Yeah they've been going in and updating some like Botan's got like overall reworked and a few other lines here and there lol. They're going off
Bruh, imagine if Ollie's voicelines in the game were done by sentence-mixing and used her streams for them lines like it was a YTP lmao
It's really fun
I'm most glad that they're able to play the game freely on stream, despite it having strong ties to some members who experienced controversy. I doubt it would have been permitted, say, a year ago.
At its core, games and other pieces of media can be used as tools for other things. Its nice that this is used as a tool for celebrating a different type of streamer / virtual fandom.
Honestly a breath of fresh air compared to some other things that get released.
I see you did some research on where did the sexually frustrated pirate reference came from lol. 👍
Very good video bro
If they can make a fighting game out of a visual novel they can do it with vtubers
Lmao facts. I thought about mentioning Melty but I'm not about to play those novels just to research for a video haha.
Maybe over a much longer period of time
@@qmanchu fair enough. Tsukihime gameplay too intensive.
Watching this makes me want a Puyo Puyo fighting game or Etrian Odyssey.
Etrian Odyssey. That'd be a sight. It'd be Nexus Verses.
@@nathanabel8169 yeah. Imagine how they will apply arm and leg bind for that game.
I never expected a fighting game about V-tubers
Have you played Touhou 12.3: Hisoutensoku or Touhou 15.5: Antinomy of Common Flowers? Those games translate bullet hell games into the fighting genre by making projectiles universal, freeing up aerial movement, and making it so that dashing goes through projectiles.
You'll be very happy with the next video coming to the channel
Bell Gang represent!
I am kinda surprise Mori Calliope , the girl who actually play Guilty Gear both on and off stream , is not a fighter or assist in this game
There are currently 3 more fighters in development so this comment may age like milk if Calli is one of them.
Dude… U just made me realize that Pokemon Tournament was my first experience in fighting games. Now I feel kinda stupid not noticing it IS a fighting game, especially with there being a literal fighting tournament. 💀
…And yes I am a little zoomer kid. I played the one on the Wii U but have the switch one too (making me want to play it again now).
"Sexually frustrated"
Funny thing is now it became more apparent and even Marine's fans, unlike most Vtuber fans actually push her to find a man and get married. She even openly talk about how many children she wants with chat and they actually responded positively. They love Marine so much and just want her to be happy.
its not the first time, but the Mugen community has a lot to offer in culture.
The game is free (accessible)
Is full of characters that a lot of people know and care about
And the game looks pretty good
Thats all that is needed to create a successful game
The best thing about this game is just how much joy and passion is poured in every animation every move and every character
I know nothing about vtubers but the game looks amazing
the main reason why this is a good game is because it's not trying to be a sport, it's just trying to be a game.
Also, if a character roaster was made for "Persona 4 Ultimax" levels of unhinged "balance", it is a Hololive fighting game. Like the idea of Suisei destroying you the moment she gets a read is basically what any playable version of her should be.
I’ve enjoyed fighting games casually since Street Fighter 2 came out, but I’ve never been very good of them. I enjoyed playing them with my siblings growing up and always had fun with solo modes, but my reflexes are too crap to play at a very competitive level, so I never got deep into the so called ‘fighting game community’. Because I love Hololive, Idol Showdown is the first game in the genre I’ve checked out in quite some time, but I’m having a lot of fun with it. I’m a bit scared to go online, but I really enjoy all the care that was put into virtual frontier, not to mention the actual characters themselves. It’s a lot of fun, so I’m glad to see it getting the recognition.
Speaking of Virtual Frontier, have you gotten to _the boss_ yet?
@@thomasthecoolkid7228 yup. I’ve actually beaten her with each character.
@@timewizardphil Thoughts?
@@thomasthecoolkid7228 I think it’s a really good idea for a final boss for the mode, what with Hololive Error being a thing. And the way it switches between the characters is pretty cool. If anything I kind of wish it was slightly more challenging. On runs when I have the set up to go all the way and reach it, it always goes down pretty easy even with the extra health.
I didn't understand how Pokken's phase system relates to the main series pokemon games. I can't equate it to any of the OG series mechanics. Can you elaborate?
It's literally just their way of "incorporating" the turns of pokemon lol. They wanted it to feel like there were distinct moments where the battle would fluctuate between different states
@@qmanchu Ah, ok. I think it's a reach. After all, both players can act in the same "turn", that's why it's actually not a turn but a phase. In any case, I get where you are coming from.
If I was the developer, I'd probably try to look at type advantages instead of the turn based approach. Maybe the assists can represent that, and you'd choose your assists according to the opponent's main pick.
It's a reach but you gotta stretch things a bit when transitioning from a static turn based game to a real time fighting game yknow? I think the type thing would be dangerous because counter picking would be stronger. I think the general utility of assists was a better approach but who knows, maybe your idea could be balanced well.
I Might not like V-tubers, but yeah, with the other examples is pretty cool that these fighting games have references from the source they come from, an the biggest example is Smash bros that is 100% built with chacracters of other games so they have to give them movesets based on what they do on the game, even with characters who don't fight like villager and isabelle from animal crossing they managed to give them a working moveset.
And also I didn't know that Gran Blue Fantasy Versus and DNF Duel were based of from gacha games, imagine what would happen with Project L and how League of Legends players will feel really familiar with the game and will probably atract fighting game players that dont play LOL.
It's pretty great when the developers take time and passion for what they like to make a pretty faitful game that the fans will also enjoy.
Thanks for this comment. I'm really glad to see you got so much out of this lol
Year later game became even better
Speaking about GBFvs, what I think it's missing is numbers. There was an analysis of Vampire Survivors stating that one of the most powerful things the game does to hook people is the numbers and seeing them go up. During this video, I've seen a bit of Granblue (mobile) gameplay and what stands out the most is that every attack shows a lot of numbers.
I know it might sound really dumb but I think if GBFvs had the same feature (showing the damage on each attack as it hits) people would like it more because human brains are easily tricked and "number big haha" is more powerful than it looks like.
I actually kinda agree with the number thing to an extent but it probably would've felt gimmicky. GBVS was made by Arcsys who takes their fighting game adaptations seriously.
Maybe an option to toggle it on or off is all we'd need tho lol
Maybe I'm wrong on this, but a big part of the satisfaction of seeing damage numbers is, as you said, "seeing them go up", which is generally not a thing that happens in fighting games, you're not really getting upgrades and whatnot for your characters (besides potential single player modes or specific, powers-up-as-they-go character archetypes).
Considering that, I feel like seeing the enemy health bar disappear should count as a good enough replacement?
11:59
Akirose combos last waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long.
But I wasn't malding necessarily, that's true.
The game is so unbalanced but so fun at the same time. 🤣👍
Because they fun, broken but fun. Fun, the reference make you either give bit interesting about certain move forward with all lore.
Indeed, unbalanced is fun.
One of the things that I think makes Idol Showdown so big is that it's free. The main reason why I think it's so hard to get new FG players to try them out is because they're expensive as hell. When you spend $60 on any other game, you usually know that it's something you will probably enjoy. But with FGs it's a gamble. By making the game free, you remove that first and very tall hurdle. Another great game that attempts this is yomi hustle. The game's only $5 and because it acts essentially as chess but a fighting game, money and the execution barrier are almost non-existent. Obviously not every fighting game can be free and we wouldn't have beautiful fighting games like Strive and DBFZ if they were, but it's cool to see a game that could bring a bunch of new people into the FGC simply for not costing anything
I feel like this could apply to other games too other than fighting games when it comes to them being big out of being free, rather than just costing money. Also, it's a fan project, and a project like that should never cost money, or else trouble.
@@ArjunTheRageGuy well, I think many other genres already have a plethora of free titles. FPS games have a million different CoD-likes on steam also not to mention CSGO is free, team based FPS have games like overwatch 2 and paladins, mobas have League and Smite, there are tons of free MMOs out there, and so on. The only fighting games I can really think of other than IS are Multiversus and Brawlhalla, both platform fighters. Anime fighters had, as far as I know, zero free games available on steam before IS. If you wanted to get someone into anime fighters, then you would have to convince them to buy an expensive game. Sure you could get one on sale for like $10, but if they're ever curious about online then they might get rolled by the dedicated player base the game has. Guilty Gear is doing a good enough job by reducing the price after season 1, but the game is still $85 for all the dlc. With IS, you can just ask someone to download and play it with you and that might get them interested, doubly so if they're into vtubers.
@@mark-gj4mb ok thanks man, including your essay that u made
@@ArjunTheRageGuy lmao sorry I probably could've condensed that into a couple sentences
@@mark-gj4mb I mean, I'm ok with it, as long as isn't like that of a wikipedia article when it comes to the reply
Would subscribe but there are always just way too many ads on these videos for how short they are
Thanks for the feedback! I've had youtube premium for years and nobody's said anything about the ads here so I'm kinda removed from what actually goes on there. Plus YT is recently experimenting with ads to test for if they should allow ad blockers or not so it's possible you're seeing something others aren't.
I'll look into it though
Is this coming to consoles?
No idea but probably not
If there is a way to distribute the game for free through consoles. Maybe, I doubt it will though.
As fan content this has to abide by several rules, but one is very important. No monetization. As this is not the IP of the creators, they cannot profit from it. Steam was already really a grey area.
Now, if they get recognized as official Hololive content, then there might be a chance. That is a beast on its own though.
Still waiting for a mobile port of this game
I always thought a Hololive smash style game would of done really well. The references and the item that could of been utilized would of been quiet fun.
the memes!...
-raiden
10:09 "whats there to sugar coat, this game is sex bro"
??????
im just waiting for them to get everybody in hololive to be available
I wonder if we can make Idol Showdown official FGC, I hope Cover and Hololive allow it unlike Nintendo.
Calliope is planning on making one for the members to do in June or July
Have you played HoloCure?
I didn't know about it until someone in these comments mentioned it
I hope Mori Calliope gets added to the roster!
HoloLive talents played this game. Seems that they really enjoyed it.
GBVS love 🫶
the only thing i don't like is that every character have the same motions to the specials 🥴
Yeaaah, that's something pretty common with more modern FGs lately. It's not ideal, I agree. I love a good DP or Half circle
Did they get Legal permission to do this I wonder? I’d hate for this work of art to be taken down
They got the permissions they needed pretty much. There's only so much protection they can get
considering how many of the hololive talents are playing the game, I can't imagine it breaching any of the fan-content terms, i think as long as its not monitised then it it should be fine.
@Ash I think the biggest concern is that we've seen Japanese companies abuse power over IPs time and time again so if they wanted to, they could just shut it down.
But I agree, it looks like the game is safe (for now)
@@qmanchu hmm, holocure has been in a similar spot to this game for i think over a year at this point and is still safe, the lead creator of that game has also worked with hololive on a lot of official animation work.
maybe the talents donating voice lines might give the company some leverage, but idol showdown i beleive has been in dvelpment for like 2 years so I would hope they thorouly checked the fan work guidelines.
at the very least i'm sure they know it wouldn't be a smart decision to shut it down with how much free promotion and content the fan works give to the company
as long as they don't do money with it they'll never have a problem with hololive
They just need to balance Aki cuz fuck she's so unfun to fight against.
there is a lot of character to hololive.... well charcaters, like thousands and thousands of hours of "lore" each
The game is essentially a love letter for both the fighting genre and Hololive.
You mean thanks for 11k subs, I think. Unlikely you got another 1k in just the nine hours since posting this video.
10k is a general accepted milestone that I hit between this video and the last. Why's it weird to say thanks to the people who got me there?
And I wasn't at 11k when I posted this video either. It was still 10.7k. Not that it matters but maybe I'm missing something here
@@qmanchu I meant that comment in a more light hearted sort of ribbing. I don't think it's a big deal either way. Congrats on 10k.
@Toma oh okay my bad I misunderstood and thought I was missing something lol.
I'll be honest, you just never know with youtube comments these days lol. People will criticize literally anything. Appreciate the support fam
@@qmanchu I understand. Tone can be hard to convey unless you put in some sort of indicator. Hmm, I guess adding a smiley face would have done it. My bad, perhaps.
Sphere that he mentions is meant to be knowledge? Indigenous know much better than Asians. Don't try to be an Asian. If your Caucasian, then it's not my fault that you are a lesser human than other races.
Too bad I don't like vtubers as a whole, not sure if I'd be able to enjoy playing it even if its got that spice I like in my fighting games. If it does
I could never touch this.
"Idol Showdown translates a culture"
He then proceeds to ramble about fighting games for 12 minutes before concluding that he likes it, all without actually addressing the title of the video. Translating a culture =/= just having the aesthetic of the source.
He went to first explain what he meant by "translating a culture". Gave examples of how other games do it, and how the tackle the issue of difference in media.
Then went to highlight how Idol Showdown does similar things. How they translate the feel of streamers, how they use similar techniques that other previous examples used to attract audiences. And so on.
Idol Showdown does not translated Hololive culture only, it also does the same thing for FG culture.
Idol showdown does not translate any culture. Its a fan project designed to hone in on two very specific niche audiences that have a lot of overlap and fanatical followings.
Its a product. Its a game. The work is a tangled web of inside jokes built off the back of parasocial relationships.
does hololive have parasocial issues , fuck yes but they are adressing it on corporat elevels these days unlike some other companies who takes loss after loss for atleast a year now ( nijisanji ). You don't see any fanprojects for nijisanji though because of how they treat projects and fans/talents. These days alot of people and even indie vtubers consider nijisanji borderline black company
"Honing in on two very specific niche audiences" is done by translating the cultures of said audiences.
dragonball fighterz might be very well made but it doenst feel like dragonball beyond the visuals,
dragonball always was clashes small combos, beams, teleports and biiiig cinematic attacks its just heavy.
obviously dragonball super has lost alot of that but theres a reason no one cares about super beyond the newest hype but dbz is legendary.
boduki 3 was the closest to a well made representation of dbz and i think that it should be the basis for a new game.
Dang, I never even knew that the Pokken fighters were doing Tekken references..!
It's kinda funny to me that so many people had no idea! That was 50% of the reason I bought the game to begin with lol