Getting real about RACISM in metal (Tank The Tech)
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- Опубликовано: 14 мар 2023
- Tank The Tech joins to talk about racism in metal.
Full interview: • Racism in metal, venue...
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Black dude who loves metal here... My journey started with nu metal as it was easy to fall in love with...Discovering Linkin Park,Limp Bizkit, Deftones, Korn and Slipknot(Yes I consider Corey Taylor a rapper)😂😂 Jokes aside... In my opinion I feel a lot of black people were drawn to this side of metal... I'm from Africa so never got to experience any of the scenes considering geographical limitations, but I digress. Guess worst experience was going to a music show and being side eyed as the only black guy...Got palpable the way you could feel people stare at you like an outsider. But it goes both ways, when people in my own race ask me why I'm trying to be white( just cause I like a genre that is "white" for a lack of better words) I hope we can accommodate people more or just be open minded...But with bands like Sevendust, Animals as leaders, one hopes the involvement of people outside of the "normal race" associated with metal. Would open people's mind that metal or music itself shouldn't be race specific.🤔 Hope I made sense if any.
I think being from Africa limits your understanding of race and music here in the United States.
You made great sense! It's really fucked in the US and Europe though, the only way I think a change can occur is metal becoming mainstream again. Right now these little racist troglodytes covet metal as a way to be a superior outsider. The scene must become flooded with different human beings or else ignorance will continue to reign.
The one ozzfest I went to there was this tall black dude in a leather straightjacket with his arms bound fucking shit up in the pit. Nobody there felt any kind of way about him he was just another crazy metal head doing his thing. Sucks to hear about people feeling so weird at sows, but having been in some bands and done some shows around my area I know its around.
@@grizzledmillennial4765 Perhaps, I mean certainly geography would limit understanding of issues specific to a country. But I'm from a country where colonialism and apartheid happened, having gone to a predominantly white school as well. I do know a few things about racism...So I don't think understanding of race is an issue unless it is specific to a country... Nah dude think I'm well educated on my metal at this point having been a metal fan for more than 20 years...I'm well versed in the various sub genres within metal itself...But I do get where you're coming from, I would never grasp local issues while thousands of miles away.
@@YoshimitsuBloodPedal Shit that sounds awesome was always a dream of my to attend a metal concert and be involved in a pit. I've observed the ordered chaos that happens in those pits, the raw and primal energy that one observes...Its almost as if people go into a trance...🤔 Still a dream though hope it will come true, older me would probably want to go to a Deftones,Bodycounts, or Slipknot show.
I heard a quote from another RUclipsr the other week on racism in metal, along the lines of 'you can't separate the art from the artist when they're not even doing that themselves', I haven't heard a statement that accurate in a long time.
As a black man, we all knew not to go to Pantera shows
Interesting take as a good friend of mine was biracial and one of his favorite bands was Pantera. We saw them
Twice . I was drunk but didn’t see racism
I’ve been into metal for decades and can remember like 2 incidents involving racism but they were at smaller local shows.. one where a few skinheads showed up and they had the suspenders and boots on and another where the N word was said a few times. That’s all I got
Being the only black guy at a metal concert only scared me once .... Marilyn Manson show 😅🤣😅 felt like that guy ending up in that rave with a bunch of vamps in the first Blade movie !!! #thebeatifulpeople
You never went to hxc shows in the 90s...
It was different
That's not metal, man.
as a black dude who loves metal...I agree w/ all of this. To echo what Finn said...” if it looks walks quacks like a duck then it is a duck”. We cannot keep making these prefabricated pathetic sorry excuses for this.
Im 45 y/o interracial man who loves east coast hiphop BUT loves metal. Back when I was a teenager metal ruled airwaves, so I grew up listening to metal. And it sucks that things have to be this way at this day and age. Especially when I have so much respect for metal musicians. It actually hurts to the core to know that people feel like they do. Great video thanks guys
Thank you both for what you said about "separating the art from the artist". Life's too short not to spend it listening to one of the great metal bands who didn't call a black person the n word to his face or sieg heil on stage. There's plenty of them out there. People who call that cancel culture should have to explain why artists are entitled to my time, money, and attention, even after I stopped liking them. At the end of the day, the question is, "what do you want metal to be? Are you okay with metalheads having even so much as the perception of harboring racist, sexist, and homophobic views?" If the answer is yes, then the metal community deserves to have the world pass them by.
South Asian here, used to front a post hardcore band. Constantly feeling otherized by the scene, my own bandmates, etc ate away at me for years and gradually made me step away from the scene as a whole. Especially as the band grew outside of New York. I still have a lot of love for heavy music, but the culture/scene around it has a lot of work to do. I’m glad there’s more discussion around racism in the scene now
You would have been welcomed in the Bay Area scene of SF, Oakland or Berkeley
Finn: I know let me talk about how metal has a racism and sexism problem.
2023 uh yeah sure Finn.
I believe in separating the art from the artist. I don't believe in giving the artist a pass because I like their art. What someone creates becomes mine when I experience it. What someone is, that's all them.
Yes, when I was young I would worship the artist behind the music, zakk wylde, dimebag..I wanted to be like them. You grow up and you wise up and realise nah I'm good lol. But the music is undeniable. Another example is slayer..Iconic, one of the greatest if not the greatest. I can never deny their music's impact on me. It doesn't change the fact that I think Kerry King is a narrow minded asshole though and I have no desire to converse with him
BLACK DUDE HERE THAT LOVES METAL , KORN, TOOL, METALLICA,
Phil from Pantera has a long history of saying extremely sketchy things. He honestly sounds like a white nationalist at times. It shows up in the lyrics of 5 Minutes Alone. I'm a seperate the art from the artist person, but we have to call these people for what they are. I'm almost certain the guys in Pantera were super racist, and we shouldn't make excuses for it.
I agree on this topic but question, when do you give the grace to them for being dumb in their past as well? You both said it yourselves that you said things in your past. Does that make all the material you’ve created tainted bc of the admittance since it wasn’t recorded or does the admittance relinquish the responsibility of using that language?
The thing about Tim Lambesis. I never listened to As I Lay Dying. They may be good or whatever. It's important to ask if if he's learned anything? Or more importantly, if he's doing something positive. I happen to be casual friends with Sammy from Fang. Dude killed his girlfriend while messed up on drugs. I do believe that he should have gotten life (or even death). For what he did, but he didn't. I do know that since he has been out of prison, he sponsors at least a dozen people in AA, and has personally opened halfway houses to prevent people from making stupid mistakes. When Fang does play, they don't play any of their old songs that promote drug use or anything like that. The point is that he realizes he got a new lease on life and does his best to affect the world in a positive way. Pantera has an enormous fan base. That being so, Phil has an enormous responsibility to not do racist crap, even if he is Joking. If you have millions of fans and do something that promotes negativity, hundreds of them are going to take it to heart
I think things may have changed for Tim. People have this idea that because the band fell apart he has resorted to "bad things". But what people neglect to consider is that they were before anything else a Christian band who's faith was considered very important to them and we saw Tim battle with his views over time. Tim may have finally given up Christianity and the band didn't want that image (which they made pretty obvious before) which caused a rift as a "fake Christian".
I appreciate you calling it out. Things will be better once it’s dealt with.
Literally whenever I'm in an Uber or something and someone asks me if I want to listen to anything in particular I say "I don't really care, as long as it isn't Nazi metal". I think racism is the worst in the metal scene. Like you said, imagine having a pop artist use the n word with a hard casually at a show and just be racist as hell. They would be broke in a week.
"how dare they not let us demonize them!"@elhermanomexicano3285
I have to say at 55 years old I thought this would have a long been a thing of the past. As someone who is a black American, I grew up on Michael Jackson, prince all the great R&B bands Commodores, when I got in the high school a friend of mine, introduced me to Def Leppard An I fell in love with this genre. Next came Motley Crue, and a lot of big bands of the era. I think of thing that I always annoyed because people consistently assume you don't listen to R&B or rap music anymore just because you like metal most of my friends who were black someone didn't understand it, but they never gave me a hard time about it. AndI can say I was lucky because I used to go to a rock club all the time and I didn't know the owner and I never had a problem and a lot of times I would be the only black guy there. I think the worst thing that ever happened to me was a guy at a Bon Jovi concert was giving me a side eye for a second. i've been to see Korn five times never had a problem, but I'm not naïve. I do realize these things happen. I am a big fan of five finger Death Punch, but that show nothing all good. but I know every year they introduced the rock 'n' roll Hall of Fame nominees. If there is a rapper in it, people are gonna lose their shit. But it's funny how people really didn't get that upset when the beastie boys or Eminem got inducted. I think the beastie boys are one of the greatest rap groups of all time and Eminem's incredible. But there are tons of artists like Joan Baez James Taylor are they rock really easy listening as I said it 55 I thought we would be long pass worrying about race in different kinds of music. Sad to see it's still a thing.
Ok bot
Lol at BB and Eminem getting inducted into R n R HoF. Someone like Killswitch deserve a spot far more, absolutely loved them when I was 15
Similar to the as I lay dying effect was when I was in middle school I loved the first 2 lostprophets cds. Kept then around and then all that stuff happened and I dropped them completely. I always tried to see if I could pop in thefakesoundofprogress or start something and I'd get a minute or two in and I just cant because you know even if you are 100% against the personal of this person who did evil things I still feel like I'm going back and listening to someone..Essentially fooling me with these songs about hope and love..because it's all fake now in retrospect.
So I do not believe in separation of art and artist when it comes to racism or crimes of a certain nature. If you have a moral code and strong ethics there is no separating it. I can't do as I lay dying because lyrically the guy was always talking about strength and hope and behind closed doors was a monster as well and it just feels that in both of these bands I mentioned that you are going back and fooling yourself into thinking these people aren't fooling you and it's impossible to rediscover that initial blissful ignorance of youth and not knowing because it did not happen yet or you didn't know the darkness in the background yet.
The music video called A Town of Hypocrisy is stuck in my head for the wrong reasons. A lot of musicians have lyrics and instrumentation written for them, like producers writing lines for actors. Problem is when the crimes of the convict is reflected in their art so heavily, hence why I'll never listen to LP again except their Summer song
"You can't be anti-woman in the pop world." What about all those misogynistic rappers? And I must add that I'm a fan of rap music, been listening to it since the early 90's and I know many artists have stood up against the misogyny in the scene, but still... Anyway, great video again with very good points!
I feel like Finn knew what’s up and chose his words carefully. Hip hop is notoriously misogynistic and people kinda just accept it.
Pop and rap are not the same thing
@@prmbapodcast a lot of the rappers that fit this criteria function in the pop world though.
@@prmbapodcast but they are mainstream…
@@prmbapodcast I know that very well. Still, misogynistic pop artists like Lil Wayne are considered rappers.
The only way to trigger more metalheads than this is to say you love Lords of Chaos
hahahaha
That was a really honest conversation, a lot of which I can relate to.
First off, I see that you guys have your heart in the right place with this topic. But finn you sound a little clueless saying that there is "no room" for this in pop music. It's not that racism, homophobia or sexism doesn't exist it that realm, it's just simply hidden. The mainstream is all about looking sweaky clean but it's no better. That's the same for society in general. We assume that racism is minimal but it's everywhere, its deep rooted. It's just disguised and subversive. As far separating the artist from the art, people think that they are doing a good thing by ceasing to support an artist for their beliefs or things they have said but let's face it, if we stopped supporting every artist that had fucked up beliefs or said fucked up shit, we wouldn't be listening to anything because everyone is fucked up, some are just better at hiding it then others or just havnt gotten caught yet. You mentioned 2 metal bands, pantera and AILD. you stopped listening to them, so what?! The metal world is full off white dudes from the south and mid west who only play in bands with other white dudes and perform for other white dudes..you really think those 2 are the only ones?? Come on now..if you really mean what you say then be prepared to stop listening to literally 98% of metal and hardcore. At the end of the day people just wanna listen to what they want to listen to. The conviction is paper thin...Micheal Jackson is all but a convicted pedophile but it doesn't stop people from listening to Billie jean does it?
Great discussion! People need moral compasses and say no to bad behavior and hate!
So what do you say about the thousands of metal songs that celebrate murdering women, rape cannibalism and every other sick Act imaginable? Where's the moral compass there?
I still have to listen to aild but damn its very very hard to wanna listen to a lostprophets song despite how amazing they still are. Thats a good example of cant support the artist after what you know about them
As a metalhead that has several non white friends (metalheads) and seeing them struggling with racism in the scene..
Maybe the next interview about this topic is with a metal musician of colour..? There are plenty of non white metal musicians to be found and the interview would make much more sence don't it?
Cheers for bringing up this topic guys
These two are a perfect example of why gatekeeping a fandom is necessary
I mean, Dime was talking too a white boy if I remember correctly? 😭
Yea, so some people may give him a pass.
What makes me curious about that video is not just that he says it, but he says it in a way that sounds like it's not the first time he's used that word. I don't think Dime was a bad guy but man that was a tough video to watch.
I also won’t listen to As I Lay Dying. But I’ve come to accept that it’s not my job to convince other people they shouldn’t.
As I lay Dying is the only metal core band I like that Tim Lambesis shit was the funniest shit I've ever witnessed made me like the band and his work even more.
Didn’t folks put this all together with Pantera (particularly the Abbott brothers) when they made an ENTIRE album with David Allen Coe?!?!
Great album
Music is music and for everybody. I used to watch Soul Train and loved the acts and Don Cornelius and Sly and the Family Stone. Music is just music. For everybody.
It's honestly sad because Pantera is one of the bands I've listened to for years and still kind of do.
Yeah...the legacy has been tainted beyond repair.
Pantera rules
so many comments proving their point lol
Oh btw go watch Rammstein: Deutschland , even they as Germans made a frikken song and video aboit how they feel about their homeland how they love and hate their own country, is humbling.
You should Both do your home work on Black Metal........!
I think younger generations of metal tend to not have this issue I think it will probably go away when the older bands go out of style but that's just my take
If they do something racist...then they're racist.
I'm a black man that listens to everything from Metallica, Korn, Limp Bizkit, Busta rhymes, Linkin Park, DMX, The Beatles to the Backstreet Boys
But as for the metal scene, I distance myself from it for years because of this same situation and how people's ideology have become these days.
The problem I have with people "calling out" people who have unpopular views....
People have a right to their views no matter how offensive, racist, homophobic, misogynist or whatever they are. You have a right to say them publicly if you want. The cops can not arrest you and take you to jail for being a bigot. That's what makes the USA unique. But.... You have no control over the consequences of your public opinions. If your company decides to fire you because of your views; that's perfectly okay. If you guys want to stop this sort of behavior; then just don't support the bands that to have these views. The only thing worse than being a bigot; is actually being a person who thinks it's okay to censor speech that you personally disagree with.
I don't care what you say; I will always defend your right to say it. Whether I agree or not is irrelevant.
the futurama zoidberg eating a flag episode explaining this concept is not that old yet but already people have forgotten or don't care lol roman romanticism is making a comeback where feeling dominate over facts
I'm mean duh lol just like those bigots have their freedom of speech so does people that are against racism and use their freedom of speech to make response or an action just like Finn doing on this video.
@Ghostface Pacifist no shit. My point is.... there is no point when it comes to "calling out" people for their views.
You don't see too many neo nazis going on finn's podcast to try to teach him about white supremacy, do you? This, " we need to call out this kind of behavior" is dumb and isn't going to change anybody's mind.
Finn is free to do what he wants to do. I'm just saying it's a complete waste of time. Besides, If you have ever actually lived in another country you will see that racism is everywhere.
This calling out racism is just a bunch of people who haven't progressed past their "I'm 16 And this is how I think the world should be", selves.
The reason why extreme views aren't welcome to pop or nashville is because those two music scenes are products. They are cash cows. You can put R and B in there as well.
Music That Isn't made For the Almighty dollar; Can harbor whatever views they want because of the fact that no corporate interest are pulling their strings.
@@ryanlewandowski389 for you is waste of time for other is open discussion and could impact some folks to see different perspectives, it sure did to me when I was a racist ignorant teen. I'm glad I grew out those ideology if it weren't having discussion different people and seeing videos like these.
If you don't like it then simply scroll than wasting your time
@Ghostface Pacifist Yes, if you are 16 and kind of on the dim side; Then yeah, maybe this discussion is worthwhile. Again if you've ever lived anywhere else in your life you will soon realize racism is worldwide. Some for founded reasons, some for completely irrational ones.
Also, ill say right from the beginning the two guys are talking about racism in metal as more of a marketting issue than a moral and social issue, and there's often a lot more to these issues than it just "looking bad", though I guess it's expected for white metalheads to see it on the surface level like that.
I understand your frustration, but making racist comments about white people won’t help your cause. You don’t know anything about me- half my family isn’t white, including my son
Looking back at this, I think getting personally defensive about the general comment about white people is kinda sus, though I guess it makes sense. White people still seem to be considered 'the default race', especially in the metal community, so tend to be pretty sensitive when "whiteness" comes up at all. If a dude was down for the "cause", I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have to explain that half their family isn't white though, no offence... It's not really about how many non-white people you happen to know, it's about understanding how racism is a very general and subtle issue that's kind of festered in the metal community to this day. Hope that was constructive.@@prmbapodcast
@prmbapodcast pretty defensive white boy. Black folks don't need your help. We're not as fragile as you think.
Thanks Finn, as a black metalhead, I approve of calling this out!
That's gay
When my favourite reggae artists started with the homophobia I dropped them. 20 years later when they renounced those ideas I ucked with them again. From Buju to bad brains. I can understand why blacks would hate on whites I’d could NEVER support that. Life’s too short. Our little human journey has been too messed up with racism
❤
Ive been to many many shows. The only show where I was blown away about how Nazis where there was Pantera in 96. They took control of the line and the pit and no one in Pantera said a word about it. Becuase they are fucking with it..
Did Phil ever address this in an interview or anything??
If so, I’d like to see it
He has at least an 1 hour interview talking about the incident on dimebash
I was just talking to some folks at work about this and the difference between the middle community and the hip-hop/rap community. I told him that there isn’t like a East Coast West Coast war in metal. You don’t see Metallica driving around shooting up a mastodon‘s house or anthrax going to New Jersey and shooting up Bruce Springsteen’s car. We’re all in it for the same reason to show her love for the music
If anthrax did that it would be based.
the whole state of rap/ hiph hop at the moment is weird. all of this gang activity is being done in public on apps like club house and talked about on public songs like shouldve ducked then somone gets hit by a stray bullet from a drive by and the police are like we have no leads. yet all of this info is public and the community is mad and wants to end the violence but then 2-3 days later goes back to saying fuck and defund the police at times even actively helping the people doing the crimes
whole culture is weird and a mess right now lol just look at the ysl rico case, none of those fire arms they found were props and the community actually wants them to be released and is actively impeading the court case when they are dead to rights gulty on camera and audio
Yeah let’s go after music that it problematic and be brave to call it out. So about the rap community and the misogyny, homophobia, and glorification of crime and violence-are you guys gonna be brave white guts and call out the black people? Oh just virtue signal and pearl clutching? Got it
“Imagine racism or hating women in mainstream popular music-it can’t exist” bro what? Have you heard how much misogyny is in rap and hip hop? Or insane amounts of homophobia? You’ve said before that rap is clearly the mainstream, so there’s no disputing that part. Racism in rap isn’t as prevalent but it’s clearly there, usually only in brief bars about how dorky Asians or white people are. The over the top misogyny in rap is undeniable though, what a low-wattage idea Finn
Exactly.
The enduring popularity of Chris Brown is a testament to that
And he’ll spin this like, “my fans hate when I bring up racism” lol😂
You have more diverse acts than groups of white men on stage…………..and a more diverse audience. You can see White men at a Wu-Tang concert && no one bats an eye.
If someone looked like Lizzo & fronted a heavy metal band- it would be an even MORE difficult road for that artist. And what fan base would they be able to create? That’s what he means…………
and just so we are VERY clear, I am a black girl who grew up in Texas and loves heavy metal & rock music, I have definitely been 1 of 5 people of color at some of my favorite shows.
@@KayxzTarot I've been to tons of metal shows with all races of people. I've never seen anyone hassle someone about their race.
Explain the difference between a nazi and someone pretending to do nazi things. There is none.
look, i get it, and i cant argue really because the stuff was inexcusable, but i understand when they say they are from a different generation and all that, because being from a southern family, that moved to Cali, look the older generation were assholes, plain and simple, and there wasnt any way to call that out like today, it was almost routine for these older hillbilly relatives to say something just messed up, hell it took my grandpa to get a grandkid that was half black (my brother) and one that was half Panamanian (me) to realize heck, we are all just people, what i'm getting at is this older generation flew these thing out of their mouth like it wasnt anything, now, the next generation grew up hearing all that, and had to learn mostly the hard way, that it wasnt alright to to say this stuff even jokingly, but heard their older relatives joke like that all the time, that doesn't excuse it by any means, but if your family comes from Hazzard Kentucky, no matter how mixed raced you are, or no matter how against hate you are, your gonna find a few racist family members in your tree, and that sucks, but thats how those dudes were back then, it wasnt right, but i get how back then you could think it was ok to joke like that until corrected by reality, i think your right about Phil, but even with dime, it was proven 1000 times over dude was all about everybody no matter what, but i totally see why he would think it was ok to joke like that, not saying thats right, but i mean i didnt know what a toilet was until i was like 10, because we grew up calling it a commode, and a spatula an egg turner, because thats what was learned growing up, look, sometimes we have to be corrected, we all did crappy stuff growing up and had to be corrected, and i think thats just about what happened, but because i grew up seeing those family members say some jacked up stuff, like my grandpas brother would spout stuff just unbelievable out of his mouth, but the next generation, you say something racist to my mom, she would literally slap the taste out of your mouth and warn you never to say anything like that again, or she would hurt you, thank god i have an awesome ma that taught me right, but some of people didnt have that kind of love and again had to be corrected by reality, i get no one wants to be known as hateful well most people, but i do see how that would go down as them being like oh it was just messing around or whatever, i can see it, that doesn't make it ok still though, but what i am saying is i understand that defense, again, still doesnt make it right, and if you go leaps and bounds to prove you were wrong and just made a mistake, then i'm consider giving you another shot, if you dont, then you just proved it was no joke, and you meant it, i mean if any of you made a mistake and asked for forgiveness, i would do the same, you know show me your face, not your ass kinda deal, again, not saying that excuse is ok, i just see why they would say it, because their grandpa or whoever, probably spouted that hate out of their mouth all time jokingly and those horrible habits probably got passed down, saying we are all brothers and sisters in metal should hold so much more weight than it does, me personally i take that very seriously, music is my love, and i love everyone that loves it you miss so many opportunities to meet so many cool people letting that racist crap hold you down. sorry for the essay lol
This is the exact reason i stopped calling myself a metalhead and associating with the whole scene. Its so intolerant in general. Obviously theirs the racial and gender intolerance but even on a musical, fashion and art standpoint. If it doesnt abide by the stupid godly metal rules then it sucks or isnt worthy. I still love most of the music but the scene is such cancer most of the time.
Same here bro.
Same bro
Same reason why I can’t associate with the hip hop community. So much misogyny and homophobia and it’s time we call it out
Yep, reminds me of what CJ of Thy Art Is Murder said about being called a poseur because he wore a Biggie t-shirt and some Yeezy kicks. The guy's a fuckin' Metal vocalist lol. People are so petty and juvenile.
@@Chill-mm4pn Exactly! I swear some people just wanna die alone 🤣
When i was in high school, the progressive anti racist and allies to LGBTQ rights tended to listen to punk and alternative, while the right wing reactionaries all tended to listen to metal. This is a oversimplification and definitely not applicable to the metal genre as a whole, but growing up as a queer kid most of the vicious homophobia i ever experienced were from headbangers.
BRB 2 low test males in a room, one baldcel, one manlet.
Really disturbing the tolerance for outright racism in the comments. You all are proving their point…
Where? I've read all the comments and haven't seen anything rcist
@@aliasfakename2267 he's a bot
@@nobrkt makes sense, year old account.
I'm a metalhead myself! I have never really worried about anything really at a concert. Now, as far as bands go, Phil I lost a ton of respect for. I never heard about the Dime story. That.........breaks my heart, because I love Pantera.
well said, but dont defend flynn than.. cause during that whole phil thing going on .. there where pics of robb doing the same terrible hand signs.... so say it all. .or dont say it all
Rob Flynn top 🤘🤘🤘
We should also ponder Mao's Great Leap Forward...resulted in savage famine, killing 40 million people and leading to desperate acts of cannibalism.
Dude in red is soft af.
There aint a youtuber Rob Flynn aint influenced
Yes!! This needs to stop
I don't feel like the metal scene is more or less racist than society in general
Metal is not about anything but the music. I just like a breakdown. Come on guys enjoy the music.
Dude…I downloaded it from lime wire so it may not be the legitimate title of the song but Hatebreed had a song that, as a minority, I found myself moving away from their music
I feel like these guys could use a bit of arghoslent
There's a Lot of "isms" in all genres. Hip hop and rap has a ton of lyrics and styles where they don't like a certain group, or color of people. Is it right? No...is it "edgy" and bring conversation and sell units? Yes it does.
How so? What type of people? You are wrong
@@JB-nu4oy great rebuttal
lmao the yg song where he talks about specifically stalking Asian people to rob because they do not believe in banks and are easier targets
Michael jackson and p.ditty don’t get a pass either then.
I saw graveland in Mexico live before and they were pretty sick
King Lemmy sorted this on MTV on his show Ask Lemmy years ago and I never looked back.Theres a divide in groups in all music.Its sad.Lord Robb and Lord Vinnie Paul was right about What they mentioned as well .Lords DIME and Vinnie Paul supported Sevendust as Damage Plan after Pantera.🤘🏿😎 Getcha Pull 🥃-CHEERS 🍻
You hear a lot of "racism" shouldn't be tolerated in the scene. Some people don't even consider where they grew up. Maybe they no longer hold these racist views anymore. I find it hypocritical how people are quick to throw to stone. But I've never hear of metalheads complaining about Pedophilia, bestiality, sexism, and the amount of sick lyrical content and art imagery that is a big part of extreme genres of metal like death, grind, gore, black, etc.
Kanye West showed that you don't need to care People don't care inte antismite samma item People don't care.
If we are really honest in this discussion, part of the problem comes from the fact that western culture is racist and that's partly due to euro/U.S.centric mentality.
This is especially true when It comes down to American people (meaning the U.S people who think they are the center of the world). I mean Hitler was, after all, inspired by the American model (American race law provided a blueprint for Nazy Germany).
Rap and Hip-hop music can also be racist. I mean, just listen to Ice Cube "Black Korea" or Iggy Azalea Slave/Master line in D.R.U.G.S. Anyhow, calling the racism in metal is a good thing but we shouldn't forget that every style of music have to deal with this problem.
Interesting points, do you have numbers to support statements?
according to the the UN the United States has the highest foreign born citizenry. More then the next 4 on the list combined. Only 2 countries of top ten for immigrating to is a non western/European country those being UAE and Saudi Arabia. Almost 20% of America is immigrants while less then 4% of Japan population is immigrants.
@@User-54631 @John Morris Actually my statement (on Hitler's American model) doesn't come from quantitative data, but from comparative law. From a James Q. Whitman (an American lawyer and Ford Foundation Professor of Comparative and Foreign Law at Yale University) research, "both American citizenship and antimiscegenation laws proved directly relevant to the two principal Nuremberg Laws-the Citizenship Law and the Blood Law."*
Other than that, I don't really know which statement you're asking for quantitative data. I would also be interested in knowing you're tought on JTB (Justified true belief) and quantitative data from a epistemological perspective (its relevance), especially for "non pure science" phenomenon.
Sources:
-ruclips.net/video/fIi83VOFnqk/видео.html
-ruclips.net/video/ei8H2rJ2mkc/видео.html
-onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ejed.12014
-www.jstor.org/stable/590553
-plato.stanford.edu/entries/epistemology/#KnowFact
*-press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691172422/hitlers-american-model
Thank you for mentioning the hypocrisy of how hip hop is NEVER called out for this.
I don't really think is a big deal look at hip-hop music can you imagine a hip-hop lover saying they not gona listen to this rap music because they talk about crime they degrade women talk about drug use Etc have you ever heard A hip-hop drill song
I hate racists and love Pantera so now what ?
I remember we all booed super joint ritual off stage after a couple songs. The crowd booed after each song and Phil finally called us all pussys in his WWF voice and ended the show. It was pretty hilarious tbh.
He was right about you.
@@nbk4dv9 I read that in a Stone Cold Steve Austin voice. Thanks for the laugh.
Oh yeahhh. The alt rock scene was pretty unfriendly to black people when I was growing up. But metal and but rock specifically... BOY.
There is this great video essay called "Fascism in Black Metal and how to spot it" that I recommend to everyone interested in the genre. Not every artist writes "Hello, we make NSBM." in their booklet so you often have to do some digging.
It's not so great though. A guy used Nergal with "Fuck Antifa" t-shirts as an example of spotting ties with nazi which is really dumb. There is a lot of people who hate Antifa while having absolutely nothing to do with any form of nazism or fascism.
What racism in metal ? Only racism in metal is from the black metal dudes don’t generalize the entire metal genre.
And still people love Kurt Cobain. #Baby video
Racism should never be tolerated. Should it ever be forgiven? Phil apologized. And that stuff was in 2016. I guess the real question is was his apology real? Or did he do just what he "had to do" in the eyes of society? And does he still do racist shit? I honestly don't know. I do want to believe people can change. Does anyone have any insight if he has done anything like this since?
It's funny how in the same interview you hear a confession about getting sober after misbehavior and a few minutes later condemning a guy with a long drug history for misbehaving. Haven't heard anything newer and apparently Phil quit drugs, so I suspect there is none.
It's not up to anyone to tolerate other people's views. If Phil wants to Roman salute then too bad if you don't like it. Why does Ice Cube and Ice T get a free pass? I
But Public Enemy gets a pass with everyone?
So, my dude...the question now is, loving panteras music as much as you do, and condemning what they've said, do you still listen to them?
Dimebag was a CSA racist bunghole too. MIght as well have been in Skrewdriver.
Rap is full of sexism by the way. Oh and don't forget ,,every'' death metal album were women are slaughtered and raped, very common theme in brutal death etc. I'm just saying. Nevertheless, I am happy with the way that extreme metal ist not mainstream too the point of Pop music. I mean Lorna is becoming very mainstream and kudos to them for ,,making'' it but it's good that extreme metal is extreme and that the majority of people cannot grasp the spirit of it.
Dime forever!
Remember when Loudwire had a bunch of metal musicians talk about their experiences with racism in metal and the vast majority of comments are just bashing loud wire for "pandering" and trying to be mainstream. Actual 3 IQ takes in those comments, of people literally just talking about their experiences. You know, what music is all about?!?!?!?
As a Jewish metal fan it really upset me learning hoe many bands and people turned out to be total shit heads especially in the black metal community its a damn shame and no one should be forgiven NEVER AGAIN!!!!
Oy vey
Dude.
Hello? Satan is the Enemy of THE Judsic deity,. YHVH.
Black Metal is music where the lyrical content is based on hating your God, your culture, your religion, and you, but you just now realize it?
For me, personally, I do indeed separate the art from the artist, however, I don’t give any passes or excuses for anything fucked up the artist has done. I just praise the art and bash the artist, and that’s what I do for folks like Marylin Manson or Tim Lambesis. Love the music they have been a part of, but I will never stand by what they’ve done outside of that. And if the art itself is an outlet for them to express their fucked up world views(“They Breed” by Malevolent Creation for example), then I have no support for the art whatsoever, cuz fuck bigotry.
Ive always been a fan of metal but never felt comfortable in the scene, most of which comes from alot of 'metalheads" being unable to grow up and evolve.
I defend Phil, not his actions, but I don’t believe he’s a true racist. It’s a contradiction yes but the way I see it is if he has hate in his heart, I want nothing to do with him, and that isn’t Phil.
Phil Anselmo is worst that mean ex,he broke a heart and burn others right away
He’s a pretty cool dude nowadays, no heroin no nothing
I don't like it when anti-establishment music is wayyyysssiiss!! 😭
Stop making a problem when there isn’t any
I'm so sick of hearing about Philip, and Dime being racist. I'm 47 years old and meet those guys when I was 15 years old. They liked what our band and us a lot so they helped us out a lot!!! It gave us the life we lived and still to this day. Granted im not a black man but we did have black friends that hung out with us and worked with us. I never saw any disrespect from any of those guys AT ALL,towards any of our black friends or any other group of black people. It was actually quite the opposite. I have witnessed Dime see homeless people on a few different occasions,who me were black,and give them money, buy them food. Hook them up with jobs at venue's. People don't know this much because he didn't do it for publicly, he did it because he was able too and because Dime was an incredible person. I learned a lot from that cat and try to live my life with the same moral,and humility as he did. Dime was a very genuine person. As far as Philip he was the same way and would give you the shirt off his back literally in some cases. In the 30 or whatever years I have known that cat I never seen, or heard,any racicisim towards any race,what so ever. Now does Phil have a fucked up sense of humor, and sometimes do fucked up shit when he gets fucked up??.... Yeah as does a lot of people. And that's why he doesn't drink a lot anymore. Here is another fact people don't know a lot about. Phil helps a ton of people who have addiction problems and goes even as far as opening his own home to help people detox,and tries to help them stay sober. This I know for a fact has included black people, who he had opened his home too and helped them,probably saved some pepole's lives. What happened at Dime bash was fucked up if you didn't know the perspective of it. But it was Phil,drinking a lot and in his eyes doing something that made sense to him being fucked up. He was mocking the skin heads because they were on his nerves and his temper got the best of him and it just ended up a whole situation which he has spoke out about many times in regret...Many times!!!! He hates the skins at shows and the bullshit they bring. Every one has their own opinion's and I shouldn't be judgemental of it,but.... We live in a very different world now a days where change is happening very fast. And some of the languages, and actions that back in the day some of us grew up saying, and doing are considered and taken differently from another perspective. And that's fine evolution happens and its not all a bad thing. But its also not ok to judge people and trash their name based on the new digital world we live in and people digging up old videos, or whatever it is they find. And I think people are very quick to judge now a days,which isn't that the same thesis of racism? I'm not saying things look different sometimes, but pretty soon if this cancelled culture, which I hate to use the term but... Some people absolutely deserve to be called out. Some times things are looked at to extreme at the same time. And sometimes that is understandable, but what isn't ok is trashing and tarnishing someone's name and further more, their legacy based on a few accounts of bullshit drugged up from the past.
Phil must get sick of this shit everyone who actually knws the guy say hes nt that !
Dime did an album called rebel Meets rebel with David Allen COE (a racist country singer) , he also sports a Confederate flag guitar . Why are you acting surprised. Not defending any of this , just none of this is news . It's been obvious since the 90s ..He was still one of the best guitar players to walk the earth.. I listen to his playing and not his views .
Exactly it's so cute when 2 middle age white guys discover racism for the first time lol
the way i see it..ill still listen to pantera, they said some dumb shit.. Theyre not R Kelly though. Same for As I lay Dying. I can look past him trying to do something that didnt happen, and he did time for.. it wasnt rape, or some gross thing.. yeah it was fucked up, but thankfully he went to the wrong person for it, and woke up out of his weird roid mental shit. I know bands that have said just as bad, but people dont know and wont listen, you dont know most of these artist in real life, so youre way better off not listening to anything at all until you know each members back story, with testimony from a handful of people.
Dimebag is dead and Anselmo sincerely apologized. They are a product of their time (90s) and spent their career pushing the envelope. Were they wrong for doing that shit? Yes absolutely, but not everyone has an educated upbringing that teaches them how to be a person in society. These guys spent their lives playing angry music and fucking around mostly inebriated. I really hope most fans forgive Phil because it was as sincere of an apology as it gets with no blatant excuses
And unlike guns and roses led zeppelin and ariosmith they did not date under age people!
The only problem I have with Finn is he likes to claim there is racism and bigotry all over the place in genres that he already heavily criticizes and really doesn't even like to begin with but then claims there is no room for that stuff in the genres he likes most. That's just BS to make himself feel good and be virtuous. He also says others shouldn't even joke about that stuff but then on his RUclips channels will say stuff like "he may not actually be a racist but it's fun to act like he is". Maybe not word for word but he has actually said that about people more than once. Finn actually blows me away every now and then with his depth of knowledge of music going back decades and the industry as a whole so I'm not trying to hate here. He's just willingly disingenuous or purposely naive at times and that bothers me. He is sophisticated enough to know the things he complains about exist in his favorite hard core genres and scenes too just like they exist in other genres and scenes.
Just so you are aware, racism is really not present at all in hardcore. If anything, you risk getting seriously hurt if you’re racist in hardcore - people have literally gotten killed for it
@@prmbapodcast And I've seen people get f*cked up in other genres for saying and doing things that were out-of-bounds. Hardcore isn't immune to ugly social issues. It has some of the same serious issues as other genres and you just acknowledged that with your comment.
100% agree
Now you’re moving the goal posts! Yes, within the context of rock genres hardcore is by far the most violent
@@prmbapodcast Violent isn't what we were talking about so you are the one moving goal posts. I simply said it (racism) exists and you acknowledged it. In the end any genre is like any other community of people. There are bad and toxic people present. Sorry if I don't want to type the word racism over and over. RUclips is weird with some words and I don't want to get your comment section or my account flagged or whatever.
The reason the music is good is that it's NOT mainstream. Rap has plenty of misogyny and still plays on the radio, not to mention that many rappers are ACTUAL criminals and are serious about the violence and drug use in their music, unlike most metal musicians. But that's apparently not a problem. It's only a problem when white metal musicians make music demonstrating pride in their race and heritage. Not when blacks talk about killing eachother in their music and then ACTUAL kill eachother.
Oh ffs go cry me a river 😭
you are the problem 🤡
Metal and hardcore has NEVER been all-inclusive.
As a matter of fact, it's one of the most judgemental subcultures on earth.
I could care less if Phil is or isn't racist. Pantera, CrowBar and Skynyrd make me wanna slam shots of Crown and that's ALL that matters🤟
One of the dumbest comments I've seen. Do not change mate
Same who gives a fuck
Throw in some COC
@@tompatchak8706 oh God, COC are such wannabe conformist🙄
@@Roger-fs5yo really? Never mind then