If memory serves 00 also had similar woes after season 1. Its this weird era where the higher ups were very very lazer focused on public opinion especially in Japan
I heard that the reason why SEED Destiny ended up how it was. Was because a voice actor in the employ of Sunrise Tomozaku Seki The voice of Domon Kasshu essentially leaked the ending of SEED Destiny online. Apparently the higher ups were so pissed at the leak and breach of contract that the guy was fired and the show had to be re written midway. It was also the reason why his character was cut from the series Mai-Hime and why its sequel Mai-Otome had its former main characters role reduced to pretty much nothing.. Since Toei wasn't willing to risk another Kira Jesus Yamato.
@@aliastheabnormal The reason I heard was the lead writer (the wife of the director) was in and out of the hospital battling caner and she was the only one who had any form of plot notes and didnt share them with anyone. And during her time in hospital suspected that one of the voice actresses was having an affair with the director. The voice actor for Shin said that isnt true so she thought he was in on it and turned shin into the nothing character that we know. Also sunrise blew all the budget on voice actors so the animators had nothing
@@nedmaster1000 What i heard is the cancer was what scuttled the plans for the movie. And that the wife died from cancer. And that its only now that the husband finally got his shit together and got to work on the movie again. And if sunrise blew the budget on voice actors then its a shame. Because its stated that Gundam SEED is cursed and that voice actors get killed off in the show. With Rika Shedder only being alive because her seiyuu turned down her role in SEED.
And if you think about it, he's deliberately being kept from having any positive character development, because it would not be to interests of Rey and Durandal.
“ Normal guy gets girlfriend, Girlfriend dies making him a edgelord, Edgelord gets upstaged by Magic Space Jesus and also there’s a idol for some reason” Seed destiny everybody
"Wasted Potential" is my take on Destiny. There's plenty of good hooks in place, but none of them go anywhere thanks to the writers deciding to fall back on Kira being infallible and handing everyone else an idiot ball. This should have been Athrun and Shin's show, but instead Athrun gets his agency assassinated and Shin has absolutely zero changes.
A (kind of) good example of how to use Shinn's narrative while still using Kira is the Gundam Build Divers Re:Rise anime (sequel of gundam Build Divers) which paint the final events of the prequel in other colors.
@@667Kero yeah, that's a comparison that went around a lot in discussions I had while Re:Rise was airing. Hiroto feels a bit like what Shinn would have been had he gotten a complete arc. In broad strokes, anyway. Hiroto was a wildly different person who internalized his trauma in a different way (disassociation vs anger).
If only someone else wrote GSD. I think OVA side story should be the best way of telling Kira's story as he and Lacus going on the run and lay low after the assassination attempt while try to look for some clues. It would've been interesting had the story focuses on Kira, Lacus and Miriallia as the side story's main characters. Kira and Lacus often shown as platonic throughout the series so a side story should help in their characters' development and have fleshed out relationship. Don't mind if it's just a thriller miniseries OVA with less mobile suit action. The Terminal should be some sort of Orb-based PMC and founded by former Archangel crew with Kira being a contractor.
Ever since this project started I was waiting for Gundam 00. It reignited my love for Gundam and actually made me seek out the original Gundam since I grew up with G and Wing.
The series was pretty good Although they use too much anime series. The games from the series that I like Srw z (1-3) srw dd and srw V(5) It add gundam 00 code geass and gundam seed.
I've always imagined that the ORB soldiers just immediately arrange to have the Gouf pilot that squished Yuna be given a medal. It's such a funny image, the idea of some poor Zaft schmuck crawling out of the cockpit before immediately being paraded around by a bunch of ORB soldiers going "WOOOO HE KILLED THAT DOUCHE WOOOOO" while he just looks around in confusion.
I think the saddest thing about Destiny is that there is the bones of a good show under it all, there is so much that it did right, but it is let down horribly by the writing. There's so many chances to make this a better show, to make this something memorable, and because of whatever the hell happened behind the scenes, they throw it all away to be a retread of the original MSG and the original SEED. Also the black tristars cameo really pisses me off for some reason
Destiny was supposed to be the Zeta retread because Seed was already the MSG retread. That was the original plan. The execution was rough but okay at first but once that midway point comes, whoever was holding the story's reigns was definitely asleep at the wheel so to speak.
Destiny's black tristars felt just thrown in there with little to do. A little bit too late at that point to build up more characters when they're failing to build up Shinn, Kira, and Athrun which are present since Ep 1, and are the actual main characters.They could've atleast made the Tristars to atleast elevate Lunamaria as a more credible pilot with having her take one down, or even giving the Dom Troopers to maybe Yzak's squad instead.
Zeta is a better series because it knows who the story is about. Amuro and Char are moved to the background so the story can focus on Kamilie and his growth as a character. Destiny would have been better if they kept the focus on Shinn with Athrun and Cagalli in the background and Kira and Lacus serving as a Dues Ex Machina.
Oh dear SEED Destiny. I've heard horror stories about the behind the scenes production problems this show faced and wow hearing it all play out here really makes me want to avoid the Cosmic Era like the plague. Namely due to the returning characters' regression and being stuck with Shin acting like a raving psycho after Stella's death. If you all want some more extensive details of the behind the scenes shenanigans check out the 3rd part of Des Shinta's Super Robot Wars V review where he goes on about what happened. But the clip notes version, SEED's original writer Chiaki Morisawa was diagnosed with an ovarian cyst and uterine fibroid at the end of SEED's production and wasn't able to work on Destiny while she was receiving treatment. While she did write the outline for SEED Destiny, the writers that Sunrise handed it over to were in no way capable of executing the outline correctly, namely script writer Hiroyuki Yoshino who is the writer that is most responsible for the botched characterization of Shin and Kagali who would later go on to screw up just as badly with Kallen Kozuki and probably C.C in Code Geass R2. Hell SEED Destiny's inclusion in that game was mostly to fix Shin after the conclusion of Destiny by actually having him learn from what happened and admit to nearly helping Durandal enslave the world with the Destiny Plan. And also to fix Djibril by having him and by proxy Logos and Blue Cosmos be the pawns of a much more interesting villain. Hell I think the reason why OO was so good was for Sunrise to do damage control after the reception to Destiny. On that note I can't wait for the OO review, it's currently my favorite Gundam series and available on Hulu as of this comment so anyone who's reading this should check it out before the review.
"Hell I think the reason why OO was so good was for Sunrise to do damage control after the reception to Destiny." Actually, the reason why 00 is beloved by people like you was because it WAS going to be SEED's successor. No really, look it up! 00 was in conception during SEED's run, and SEED Destiny wound up taking its intended spot due to executive skulduggery. They should've made 00 instead, but they eventually got to after SEED Destiny proved polarising. Also, 2007 marked the return of the UC with Gundam Unicorn, a light novel which would go on to be adapted as my personal favourite Gundam OVA in the early 2010s. 2007 really was a banner year for Gundam, wasn't it?
No wonder the writing for Destiny probably backfired since not everyone is into returning characters unless they come back in the first episode or around that earlier part. Returning characters can still work but stealing the main character role is *not a good idea* (particularly with Western viewers)
I know it's meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but that Peter Cullen (Toonami narrator) impression at the beginning pretty much nails the diction and cadence! Sure, it's not quite deep enough, but 2 out 3 is better than a lot of guys can do.
No one will ever convince me that Shin’s family death wasn’t the stupidest thing. It literally happened cuz his sister refused to leave her damn phone.
If any of you knows Chinese, go search for a Taiwanese channel who hailed Shinn to such high levels (and shares the same namesake) it's mostly nauseating to sit through his rants, ranging from Kira's invincibility & messianic complex (although most people definitely agree on that part) to Athrun's continuous wavering in decision makings and the downing of Destiny & Impulse Gundams (his personal favorite MSs in the entire franchise), slandering Orb's existence, sparing Luna and Rey on purpose, applauding Durandal for his own godlike infallible ways of trying to sort Cosmic Era out; the list keeps going on.
Ah Gundam Seed Destiny, the show that started off decent, ending up off rails as soon as Kira became the protagonist again. Least the OPs and soundtrack were amazing. Plus Lunamaria was hot 🔥♥️ My Gundam Seed Waifu.
Honestly, as much as I like Kira…if anything he should’ve had a role similar to Amuro in Zeta. I can understand him getting involved in the war because Z.A.F.T after his girl and Orb aligning with the Earth Alliance’s Atlantic Federation, but your telling me that Cagalli didn’t have anyone who was loyal to her that would’ve followed her when she voiced her discontent with Orb essentially being forced into an alliance with the very same force that attacked them 2 years prior which resulted in Izumi Ahtha (I don’t know if I spelled the surname right.) having to blow up Orb.
@@kira17801 yeah, Orb could have been interesting if we actually saw something that showed the split between Orbs populace, and not just the viewpoint of the politicians and 1-2 random officers. Is it just a Japanese thing, cause it be an interesting inverse to Japan's reaction at the end of WW2: where the civilian populace were willing to give up after two nukes dropped, but the military rather continue fighting because "they'd been bombed before, what is one megaton bomb achieving all the other bombings hadn't already achieved."
Slight correction: Yzak wasn't in the Battle of Orb - it was the fighting with the EA's Biological CPUs (the Druggies) that got Shinn's family. That battle was being fought between ORB's Defense Forces vs the Alliance, so it makes sense that a Coordinator like Shinn would side with ZAFT since he hates both ORB and the EA.
I spent some of what I'll call my "formative internet years" watching the bad tv recorded fansubs of Destiny week to week when I was still in highschool. I gotta say, I have never seen a community of people go through the entire spectrum of human emotions as we did while Destiny was chugging along back then. Those IRC's and Ventrillo servers were never the same after the midway point and they did the fake out Kira Death again. Complete and total demoralization, bargaining, anger, the contrarians saying it was the best gundam yet. Everything. Absolutely wild time.
One thing I truly do like in Seed Destiny is that Heine Westenfluss (probably misspelled that) was voiced by the singer Takanori Nishikawa who wrote and sang four major ost tracks for Seed/Seed Destiny being the first opening for each series: Invoke (Seed) and Ignite (Seed Destiny) but he also sang the vocal pieces Meteor and Vestige, his cameo in the series just shows how much the studio loved his music and the contributions he made to the soundtrack.
@@XTempestBuster I don't think he'd get the freedom- Miguel was more of a foot solder the heanie was.... But Miguel got an orange ginn that was 3 times faster and got disabled by gain earlier- he was sadly destined to die in early seed and kiras first kill
55:44 "And then Athrun kicks the Destiny Gundam so hard that Shinn's entire soul leaves his body." 😂😂😂 I remember when I watched this scene back in college, I cheered so hard for Athrun that I woke up my roommate (it was night).😅
What pisses off most folks about SEED Destiny isn't that it was bad, but that it had the potential to be really _good_ and squandered that potential so thoroughly. The main problem is that all the characters simply existed as archetypes instead of developing as people, which means they didn't change so much as they reacted to the plot in different ways. It hurts that would could have been a great series, and had the ... _seeds_ to be, completely failed to blossom into something noteworthy.
"We just saw this episode" Well. When I was young, we used to watch TV shows once a week. Sometimes you might even miss an episode. I know we today are all about the binge, and repeating story beats is often felt as tedious. It was often needed back in the day due to how shows were presented.
I really liked Shin as a character. Wait wait, wait, hear me out. I'm someone who enjoys stories at a conceptual level. So what I really liked was the _idea_ of Shin, a flawed but understandable character. Who would eventually, not necessarily see the error of his ways, but grow and change in a way where he becomes a better person. ...Yeah that never happened, the character was done dirty by the writers. I cannot, however, find it in my heart to hate Shin for this.
Exactly. I hate Shin because he could have been so much _better_ than what he turned out to be. Not necessarily an ally but a person who begins to grow from being single-minded to having a more world-view.
@@andrewowens4421 shin was pretty likeable in the beginning of the show, then they made him act like a little brat as soon as Kira is in the center of the picture
Same though and stance man. Fav SEED character cuz of that. an unpopular preference, i know. Oddly enough, the only surviving character that got development in 50 episodes. Shinn's an ultimate redemption underdog when he gets to fulfil that arc someday.
I found it enjoyable later on cause I sorta had fun joking with the absurdity of the show and having a headcannon 4th wall breaking reason for Shin to hate Kira because he stole his show.
I watched Seed Destiny right after finishing Seed. I thought the first 6 episodes were pretty decent then after that a slow decline that by the last 15 episodes was truly painful to finish.
I will say I did enjoy the heavy Arthurian lore used throughout Destiny. The XO is Arthur (obvious connection), the Minervas weapons are called the Tristans and Isoldes (Tristan was a knight of the round table Isolde was his lover), the Impulse uses Excalibur (obvious connection), the Destiny uses Arondight (Lancelots sword), the packs are called Wizards (reference to Merlin), Durandels name (named after the French sword which is viewed as the French equivalent to Excalibur in terms of fame and legend) etc.
I just noticed that the King Arthur myth was also present in SEED, with Lacus’s name being a possible reference to the Lady of the Lake, who gifted Arthur with Excalibur. Lacus refers to the Freedom (and its successors) as Kira’s sword. If anything, Kira, Shinn, and Athrun are Arthur, Lancelot, and Percival, respectively.
If you like Mu as a mentor character, but hate what happened to him, you’ll love Woolf Enneacle from AGE. Don’t worry AGE doesn’t have bring back people despite supposedly being more catered to children. Honestly it has its dark moments.
@@westonmeyer3110 I really do love AGE a lot. The story really never felt like it was for children to me. It still had that dark Gundam tone. And the MS designs were all amazing. Down to the grunts all the way to the Gundams.
age would've been better if it wasn't rushed or haphazard, especially with the 3-generations story. I still found Asemu's arc to be the best imo@@Jociaoftrades
Seed Destiny has some Easter Eggs from Cyber Formula and I like that since some of the staff from that show put in the work for Gundam Seed and Destiny
From what I understand, the show’s biggest problem behind the scenes was changing to a director who adored Kira and Lacus and loathed all of the new characters (IIRC it was the director of SEED, but I may be mistaken). Notice that it was around the time that Kira was being pushed back into main protagonist role that Shinn’s character development completely stalled, if not reversed entirely. It makes me wonder what this show could have been if this change had not occurred. Keeping in line with the Zeta comparison, this show is what would happen if Amuro and Char teamed up and started attacking both the Titans and AEUG. If you want the dark ending of “asshole tricks everyone into letting them rule the world”, that’s what we have IBO for.
I was waiting for this one to drop before I watched the Gundam SEED one. This is probably the only Gundam SEED Destiny media I will ever willingly consume, and I thank you for the video, because you make the subjects easy to listen to, and more importantly, fun to do so. Expect my comment on the SEED video in three days lol. Thanks again, and keep up the good work!
Destiny has so many cool mobile suites, and awesome moments...... but S.E.E.D. happened. The Akatsuki getting saved by the Strike Freedom, soaring down from space like a meteor is godly! S.E.E.D. already had a track record of showing "cockpit go boom =/= dead." I'm down. It's actually logical. All throughout the franchise we have those moments. Neo having his moment where he seems to be coming back into himself is touching...... but SEED DAMIT! Mu died the manliest of deaths to save his friend and lover. WTF did they stomp all over that legacy?! We already had a SOLID AF set-up for the DeFlaga clones being a thing! And Shinn...... simply insufferable! Seriously wish Rey could have lived and went on to fight with the others, or live his own life since Kira literally just got through to him! And also, at that moment, wtf did Kira continue to wreak the Legend? Wasn't Rey frozen in his realization? He should have let him sit there and process, not hyper torch in t in lol. I seriously do need to see the movie now. SEEMS like the Athrun, Kira, and Shinn were supposed to end up united after it was all done, even if it seems they decided to go about it in a crazy way.
IDK earth forces being cartoonishly evil the entire time kinda just made everything silly. That being said, CE was just about the earth forces nuking the PLANTS so I guess we're just used to them, i guess.
Even in Seed Kira was willing to kill if he had no choice (he says he's willing to shoot people to keep the n jammer canceller tech safe and he goes out against Azrael). Stella's death was a "shot the dog" moment. It wasn't pleasant but it was the only way
You seem to have misunderstood the problem with Stella's death. Stella's death was not only specifically Kira's fault, but a contradiction to his no-kill methodology. Despite how rushed the romance was, Shin was able to break through to Stella and get her to calm down, possibly leading to a end to the battle where she lived. Stella lost control again when Kira re-engaged, which then lead to Kira needing to kill Stella. And while this was a failure of the writers ability to keep Jesus Yamato consistent, it does make sense as to why Shin went full edgelord against Kira being this was the second time the Freedom took his loved ones' life
Kira didn’t immediately re-engage though. He stood in background when he noticed Shin was getting through to Stella. Stella saw him and went berserk as she had been effectively conditioned into wanting the kill the Freedom Gundam. Kira couldn’t have reasonably known how mentally unstable Stella would become in response to his presence. For once, Kira doesn’t actually need to be absolved of any sins because he can’t really be blamed for her death. He also only destroyed the cannons and not the cockpit. It’s whoever designed the Destroy Gundam’s fault that doing so would subsequently kill the pilot with shrapnel.
@@thedigitaldummy3098 there are a few points you have misunderstood about why kira is to blame. While Stella did freak out at seeing the freedom, Kira IS responsible in 2 ways. First, why did kira pull up in the first place? Out of all characters, Kira would be the most likely to hang back considering he's done so with Cagali and orb, the minerva vs the archangle, every fight he's had with athrun has them stand there and talk. He should have known to stay back because of how many times he was in shins position. Secondly, why did he immediatly attack instead of backing off? If a man is keeping a lion calm but it growls when I get closer, Ill back the fuck off regardless of the knife in my hand. As to Kira not knowing his attack would kill, Stella's cockpit was open, making it clear that the head wasn't a safe target, especialy for Kira who is experienced enough to know how to NOT damage cockpits when FIRING BARRAGES.
This might have been the best episode of retrospective, I chuckled the entire time. I got a quarter of the way through Destiny and just couldn't do it. I'm glad I didn't finish and saw this instead, it really hit the nail on the head.
SEED Destiny has also been compiled into 4 movies. Movies are told "from Athrun's perspective" and have more streamlined flow than series, plus movies have all flashback scenes cut out which alone makes them worth watching instead of series. Last movie also include extended ending which initially was not present in episodes but later they released extended edition of the final episode.
Good review. I agree with all of your points except two things: 1) Kira never really have a "no kill policy". Kira will disarm opposing Mobile Suits the best he can and let fate sort survivors out. If situation requires it, Kira will have no hesitation to kill. Back in SEED, Kira/Freedom worked together with Athrun/Justice to destroy Calamity Gundam along with the pilot (Orga) inside. Kira also killed Rau coz he simply went too far gone. 2) From the above point, now you should understand why Kira has no problem killing the pilot inside Destroy Gundam. Stellar/Destroy simply already killed too many (hundreds of) civillians before Kira arrived. Stellar/Destroy already far passed a point of forgiveness and needs to be stopped/offed/killed. Same thing with Kira fully prepared to kill Durandal simply coz he already went too far by nuking a country. One more thing, the Destiny Astray manga (which ran alongside SEED Destiny) show confirmed that Durandal was behind the Patrick Zala loyalists who showered the Earth with big rocks & Lacus assassination attempt on the beach manor.
What are you talking about? The DESTINY Astray manga made it very clear that the organization called The Clan, who were infact truly responsible for instigating the Zala Loyalists into dropping Junius Seven. It's even also hinted that they could've been the ones responsible for the assassination attempt on Lacus since it's mentioned that she, Kira, Lowe, Gai, Jess, and Edward were viewed by The Clan to be potential threats. We see this first hand in the manga that The Clan framed Lowe for making the Katana blades for the GINN High Maneuver Type IIs that the Zala Loyalists were using for their mobile suits. Heck, there was even a hit out on Edward and Jess by The Clan due to what happened back in the United States of South America in the first arc.
@@brandonscott4808 The Astray manga that I read was the one with the reporter MC piloting the Astray Outframe. I say this without revisiting the manga again so you can correct me if I'm wrong but in that manga, it is heavily insinuated that Durandal was the one that's leaking the Chaos, Gaia, Abyss data to the EA for them to steal. And at one point Durandal also insinuated that the Junius 7 drop was all according to plan and he was upset that the assassination on Lacus failed. But again, you can crosscheck and is welcomed to correct me 👍. After all, I myself hate mis-information, especially if it comes from me.
@androyus No problem. So, for the first part about Chaos, Gaia, and Abyss being leaked, it had nothing to do with Durandal because it's actually shown in the manga (in chapter 10) that The Clan sent a spy to steal data on the three Gundams. After they got what they wanted, the spy was killed, and The Clan gave the data to Phantom Pain. As for the second part, you were right about Durandal being possibly behind the Colony drop on Earth (after rereading that scene in the GSDA manga), given Bernadette's thoughts on her conversation with the chairman. Lastly, for the assassination attempt on Lacus, theirs still a strong chance that Matisse and the Clan were responsible because by the time the manga reached the 3rd arc, The Clan started targeting the 13 Irregulars which included: Ace: Kira Yamato 2: Lowe Guele 3: Gai Murakumo 4: The Professor 6: Edward Harrelson Jack: Jean Carry Queen: Lacus Clyne Joker: Jess Rabble They even stole the Proto Saviour from ZAFTs Carpentaria base and wouldn't be surprising that they might have even stolen the ASH mobile suits in the process. But I think the assassination attempt will never come to light since GSD is filled with so many plot holes that were never resolved, not even in the Astray series.
SEED Destiny (unfortunately?) has a special place in my heart as the first Gundam series I ever watched and finished. I was still in high school and had smol brain syndrome so all I really cared about when it came to Gundam was big mechs fighting each other. Back then I didn't know what good writing was and I also wasnt aware what the core plot points of a proper Gundam show were. It's thanks to this channel and the man himself Retcon_404 that I finally learned SEED Destiny is considered a bad Gundam series and also what Gundam as a franchise is really about. I have finally realized I dont actually enjoy watching Gundam anime since my favorite part are the mobile suits lol
Gundam SEED and then destiny were actually my first and second anime shows I ever watched, thanks to my ex gf. And to be honest, even through all the criticism I still love the show and I actually enjoyed the anti war points it was making. Keep in mind I liked the matrix reloaded more than the original. I liked MGS2 more than MGS1.. and I think that that movie and game get a lot of hate for the same reason Gundam Seed Destiny does. There’s some really deep philosophical concepts that make you rethink what is right and what is wrong and why you’re doing anything.. and I just don’t think people process that well as a good story. Most people like the black and white of knowing who the bad guy is and knowing they have bad intentions, and knowing who the good guy is and knowing they’re doing the right thing. I personally live for the confusing stories where “winning” (if it involves killing people) sits wrong a little on your moral compass. And I love when enough perspectives are shown to where everyone has a lot to lose and their own motivations.
So, your issue with Heine boils down to them hiring a famous pop star as his VA and nit having enough money to keep him in the show for very long. I agree that it's kind of silly to just have him in for like 3 episodes while trying to make him semi important of a character. Realistically destiny should have ended when Shinn stabs the freedom through the cockpit with the arondight and blowing both of the suits up. But this is CE were talking about so we knew that wouldn't happen. There was also a ton of missed opportunities to have Luna be developed as a character and have her fill destiny's athrun role like she was supposed to.... but hey, who needs to have new characters when we can just keep reusing the cast from the first series right?
I still like Shinn no matter what the fans say cause I believe the creator had big plans for Shinn long run but when she became ill and her husband gave most control to Bandai and sunrise they figured to go the same route and focus back on Kira and Athrun instead focus on the new cast and sure Shinn was an asshole threw most of the series but I'll tell you like I tell everyone else, would you be in the right state of mind to be nice to anyone short of your close friends after what happened to your family right in front of your face? Edit: 1 that is a (guess glass) rose petal that Stella gives Shinn, I guess it was never explained in the anime but the wiki does and if you look at it does Edit 2: how is killing someone that took care of you fucked up in this sense? Shinn is in a giant mech, destroying ships and stuff. is he really gonna look into the ship before he attacks? That moment, more or less happens to show how bad war can be and how it can hurt so many people or at least that's how I felt with that moment
Want to know one sad thing about Shinn? He got an awesome character arc... In SRW. The writer of Destiny is always salty when people say that, really really salty about it.
@@Jonnyg325 from what i see in comment sections and reddit posts, Destiny is actually pretty great in every other media except the anime. Like the dedicated games and SRW, mangas and novels
So shinn’s reasoning for not liking orb the political state makes perfect sense. The idealist idea of letting citizens die so you can stay on a high ground creates monsters. With that stated he should hate all ZAFT just as must as the alliance and orb
Finally someone pointed out Todaka's death scene in the series. Basically started off Shinn's fall from grace IMO. What sucks is that we clearly see the Impulse looking right at the captain's deck and to think that Shinn could've at least had a momentary closer look even for a brief moment...man, this show really screwed him over, and that is fact. Also, if there's anyone to blame for Stella's death really, it's Shinn. He's seen what the Earth Alliance are capable of when it comes to mishandling Extendeds. He KNOWS they'll just turn her into a weapon again (which they eventually did). I know he was kind of in a tight situation there, but I wouldn't mind it if Shinn got at least wishy washy going all touchy feely and indecisive on what to do with Stella rather that simply just handing her over back to Neo. I guarantee you that had he not hand Stella over to Neo, her death and the Freedom vs Impulse fight would've taken completely different meanings for the series. Man, I sure hope the planned sequel movie will do our poor emo boi justice, but I have little hope. One last thing: You know you made a bad show when even the Chibi parodies did the new characters justice and better than the main show.
I remember being so confused the first time I watched destiny. The alliance were mustache twirling villains the whole show then the last few episodes try to convince me Durandel was the bad guy the whole time with the destiny plan someone made up last minute
I’ve only ever watched this show twice: once for the first time in college and then almost a decade later for review on my blog and I want that combined 100 episodes of my life back. This show does have a strong opening but everything else is weighed down by repetition, character assassinations and Shinn being one of the most infuriating ass hats in the franchise. For a long time Seed Destiny was the rock bottom of Gundam for me…then I saw G Reco and…yeah can’t wait to hear your thoughts on that one dude
SEED Destiny was my very first Gundam series, a weird place to start. It had just finished airing and I wanted to watch whatever the newest series was. I wasn't even aware it was a sequel until a good few episodes in, which really made the main character switch baffling to me as the characters I knew just got side-lined for these really preachy guys, that just stole the show. A young teenage me ended up really enjoying a lot of it, despite many flaws. The music, the mechs, some really nice fights scenes, that's all my young brain needed. It is all thanks to the Impulse Gundam and Shinn that I have become the fan of the franchise that I am today. So, thank you SEED Destiny, you beautiful mess.
When I see Shin Azuka, I see Anakin Skywalker as Darth Vader without the quad amputations and erd degree burns. The rest of the anime, looks like an updated but similar storyline to Gundam Seed. The mecha's are cool.
It's been so long since I've seen either seed or seed destiny. I have fonder memories of seed but I do recall this one being a tad lackluster in certain elements. Keep at it my man lovin the content 😤😤
They could have called rays zaku the white wolf a nice call back to another ace pilot with a white zaku also considering what blue cosmos wanted orbs mass driver for in the first series I wonder if shin would have preferred that they just let them have it
i just wanted to say; thank you, your retrospective series has been a foundation in saving me from my depression, i actually lost the ability to enjoy any anime until i stumbled across your G Gundam retrospective and thus the others including this one. i appreciate the honest (even some biased) commentary as it come across as honest and shows real love for the shows and the Whole of what a series did/didn't do. keep doing you, and again thank you for the content you make.
My biggest gripe with Destiny is the character designs, or lack thereof. They seriously copy/pasted faces for so many characters, and it’s only gotten worse once Fafner started airing, followed by all the other mecha anime he’s worked on I legitimately couldn’t tell Kagali and Stella apart for the longest time and it makes zero sense for them to be so similar looking other than just lazy design
The artist has a "same face syndrome" situation going on with how they draw. It's a worse version of reusing a character because the artist really likes the design.
@@Retcon404 damn right, actually just finished the review and I largely agree with you. This series had so much potential but due to the writers it fell flat on its face.
I enjoyed Gundam SEED when it came out. I was of an age and mindset at the time that it clicked for me. Classic Gundam action mixed with some extra early 2000s young adult drama and having some good visuals and music. It hit the right sweet spot for my tastes at the time. SEED Destiny, on the other hand, just utterly lost me about half way through. I think the point I gave up was when Athrun and Kira were meeting and it was just so frustrating. There were so few good reasons for the backslide in the relationships and character development. I just couldn't take the pointless, contrived and utterly nonsensical melodrama of it all. Add to that just how incredibly unlikable Shin was, and I just gave up on the series.
@@asimhussain8716 seed has its flaws but I do consider it a good series and has really memorable moments, destiny pretty much repeated many things from the first seed but without the tension and dread that made the former series enjoyable and does not really advance the cosmic era in any meaningful way.
While I don't think Destiny is as good overall as Seed (especially when it comes to character development), and while I acknowledge the character issues in Destiny, I still really enjoyed it. Saying this as I finished watching it last night. I wish they did more with some of the characters, but I wasn't bothered by Kira being back as most other people seem to be. In the second half of the show, the reusing of animations and 2 or 3 clip-show episodes was a little bit annoying but nothing I couldn't get over. I enjoyed the chairman as a villain more than the villains in Seed (at least up to the last 2 episodes). And Lunamaria was hot.
Here is my fan theory: the real protagonist of the series is Athrun. If you combine the total runtime of both Seed and Destiny, Athrun has the most screen time. Shin didn't exist in seed, and Kira was on vacation during the first arc of destiny, Athrun however is present in almost every episode! Would the story make more sense if he is the real protagonist? Probably not, but I think it's funny.
The alliance designs are amazing, it's like what the universal century did with the GMs, but all based off of the dagger from SEED. And the ZAFT designs that are not retreads of Zeon designs are pretty damn good too.
In GSD, the gundams are cool and great but story is meh… + points that Chainman Gilbert is voice by non other The Red Comet Also I don’t think Kira intended to kill Stella, if he wanted to kill her, he would have jab that beam saver into the pilot cockpit, my point of view, Kira still refuse to kill at that moment, Remember Kira did not kill Rau
This show could've been so good... I was reading comments on episodes as I watched them, it was funny seeing people say things like "I hate Shinn" and "I want Kira back." Be careful what you wish for I guess. I still enjoyed this one more than Wing.
Oh Heine's death is WAY dumber than just Stella getting behind him. Stella was actually trying to attack Kira with the Gaia's beam blades and Heine FLEW INTO HER PATH. So no, Stella wasn't even trying to kill him there, the goof in a Gouf has zero spatial awareness and flew himself into a beam blade... Can't even blame Stella for that let alone Kira...
It's such a cheap echo of the death of Nicol that I have felt *to this day* that Athrun being a double-agent for Lacus all along would have made far more sense.
@@Grizabeebles I mean at least Nicole was trying to get that beam sword swung at him. He was trying to take the hit/distract Kira for Athrun. Stella just flat out launched herself at Kira, and Heine get in between them like a dolt.
Eh, to be fair its the only explanation as to how she held such a strong military status where she could even make a mobile suit rivalling the same modern itterations. I mean she did it in seed where she completely infiltrated militaries so how has that changed? It would also explain why she didn't became a colony leader after seed as there were still parties that could challenge her rule. With destiny ending there are no rivalling militaries or governments and like the fake lacus being a idol of unity to the colonies she now became one for everyone. With ORB being a puppet state as a close ally considering ORBs strong leadership was already whipped in to subjegation after the whole LOGOs thing. As a disservice i would have to ask what disservice? She never played the pacifist in the origional show nor in this one. She simply didn't get her hands dirty like a good mastermind would do. It may not be covered in the show but there are a lot of things where you go : Huh... I guess she has an entire independant military industrial complex with a private and civilian army to achieve all of that in under 2 years.
Still in the early parts of your video but yeah they did do Shin dirty in Destiny. Had so much potential being one of the best written Gundam characters in my opinion. Nice opening btw
I can tell you watched the remaster not the OG. The neutron stampeder was a one off counter weapon bc the "quantum fernels" burnt out in the original dubs and its stated/shown as such (the fernels melted) Next point: the arch angel didnt detonate a bomb under water, it was engine two which had been hit by the tarnhauser. The hacking of the ragnarock files was a cover for Durandal to justify killing Meyrin and Athrun. The archangel returns for repairs from the damage from the Minerva. Those tubes are o'neal cylinder colonies they have been retired since the building of the plants.
One consequence of the bad wtiting in SEED and Destiny seems to be that Coordinators are all absolute hypocrites when it comes to killing. Almost every one of them is seemingly willing to swear revenge on anyone who kills someone they have even the slightest personal attachment to. Even when the person being killed is a professional soldier and said killing is basically indistinguishable from self-defense. Meanwhile, those same coordinator pilots justify all the lives they take without a second thought.
The reason Rey shot Gilbert wasn’t for the choices of Rey’s own life. It was actually for Shin. Shin was who Rey was referring to in the “His tomorrow” line.
I know there is some talk about the behind the scenes dram in comments. But I'm just gonna say almost none of the stuff about the drama is actually true. There was a lot of fake info floating around, about the behind the scenes stuff back in the day and Destiny sucking, just kind of caused people to take a lot of it at face value.
Isn't shin more like than Kira now then back then. Super robot wars really helped Shinn as a character. Also its gun dam double o not double zero sorry I didnt want to be that guy. Great video by the way! 👍
Gundam SEED and then destiny were actually my first and second anime shows I ever watched, thanks to my ex gf. And to be honest, even through all the criticism I still love the show and I actually enjoyed the anti war points it was making. Keep in mind I liked the matrix reloaded more than the original. I liked MGS2 more than MGS1.. and I think that that movie and game get a lot of hate for the same reason Gundam Seed Destiny does. There’s some really deep philosophical concepts that make you rethink what is right and what is wrong and why you’re doing anything.. and I just don’t think people process that well as a good story. Most people like the black and white of knowing who the bad guy is and knowing they have bad intentions, and knowing who the good guy is and knowing they’re doing the right thing. I personally live for the confusing stories where “winning” (if it involves killing people) sits wrong a little on your moral compass. And I love when enough perspectives are shown to where everyone has a lot to lose and their own motivations.
I’ve taken to agreeing with BOOFIRE191’s take on this series, that Destiny started off okay, but lost what little ground it had midway through. There’s stuff I like, but the whole product is really weak
@@asimhussain8716 Seed is better than Destiny, I don't think there any contension to that statement. It's just that when comparing Seed to First Gundam, which it was supposed to be a retread of for the then newer generation, it drops the ball when it really shouldn't. An example would be Waltfeld, the Ramba Ral expy, surviving his fight with Kira when he should have died. The point of his character was to be a "there are decent people on the opposing side and it sucks we have to fight them" lesson but that gets thrown out the window because he survives. Because they miss telling the lesson with Waltfeld, they try again with Nichol but that fails because Kira never gets to spend time with Nichol unlike Waltfeld, so there is no connection and no feeling of loss even in the slightest once Nichol dies. They even edit the scene in the remaster to make it look like an accident as if appealing to the audience to feel sad for Nichol. It's bad when you have to do something like that just to fix the story. The simplest fix would have been to keep him dead but have Da Costa, Waltfeld's second-in-command, be the one supporting Lacus. There's also the issue of Seed intentionally dialing back the science fiction to make way for rule of cool which feels a bit like a slap in the face since Gundam has always been on the harder side of sci-fi (even G Gundam has some of it despite being a Hong Kong Martial Arts movie most of the time).
@@asimhussain8716 You think it's silly but that was the plan for the show and it is a fact, not an opinion. You can head over to the GAMORE channel. It is a japanese gundam-focused channel. There is a video about the making of Gundam Seed if I remember correctly. I'm not saying it has to be an exact copy, but my point is since it was going to be using the same themes/messages as First Gundam, then it should do them properly. I'm okay with the additional teen drama angle Seed added by using Flay. That was a good addition given the history of gundam (as in female viewership helping the franchise multiple times since the beginning).
@@asimhussain8716 I'm not asking for an exact copy. There is "doing it properly" insofar as writing is concerned. It doesn't have to be done the exact same way but it has to get the message across clearly. The issue with Waltfeld is that he's a almost a straight copy of Ramba, who is an integral part of the story that he's part of (in relation to the main character's personal growth and to a recurring theme in gundam in general), with the exception that he survives. It is his survival that necessitates the whole Nichol event for the message they're trying to get across which was originally the Ramba Ral lesson but this second pass at delivering the lesson was done poorly compared to the setup for Waltfeld. Think about what message the audience is going to derive from such messy writing. Instead of the intended "war is bad because so and so" they're getting something like "Waltfeld's too good of a character to die here so plot armor for him only" or something like "self-defense isn't allowed so Kira is at fault for killing Nichol". My point is that while gundam can and does have different themes per show, there are main recurring themes. Seed's attempt at getting this specific recurring theme was messy and results in it missing. It tried to do something new (points for trying) but unfortunately it failed to execute it properly and in turn failed to deliver the intended message. I'm not sure if I've explained it adequately, but tried to make it as clear as possible that 1) I'm not looking for an exact copy, the writers are free to do as they like since it's their story to tell and 2) writing-wise there was an issue with the payoff with Waltfeld and an issue with the setup for Nichol hence it being done incorrectly in my view (it didn't land right/it didn't land as expected/it didn't get the message across clearly/it didn't get the right message across). If this still doesn't clear things up, let's just leave things at that.
I never finished Seed or Seed Destiny, but watched Stargazer and was surprised at how good it was. Haven't seen it since it was new though, so I only really remember the great mobile suit designs lol
Honestly I always felt that after Seed Kira and Lacus naively thought they could just piece out from the whole world feeling they had done their part and leave the reformation to others They then only after Lacus was nearly killed tried to do what worked in Seed, become a 3rd voice but there were just too many manipulators in the background for it to work again in the same way especially with a fake Lacus basically using Lacus' own influence against them. Frankly Lacus should have revealed the fake Lacus deception far earlier. By the end it does show them taking on a more direct role to try and fix things with Lacus becoming the new Zaft chairman and both moving to the Plants, though I do thing they really made some major stumbles along the way.
Honestly It never made sense to me that either of them would actually stop trying to help unless public opinion or something made them. Lacus herself was stepping up as a result of her father's death. Unless they were just on vacation for a bit, their characters were pretty assassinated too tbh
The pop idol thing was just another of her subtle manipulations to get people to drop their guards around her. Now that all her enemies have been slain and the rest of the world loves her she'll rule with an iron fist!
I watched bootleg subs of this show when it was released, so I was never subjected to the horrors of the English dub. Music was good, and the shot of Junius 7 burning in reentry was beautiful in an "oh shit we're gonna die" kinda way. And one can never have too much fanservice! But I was hemming and hawing at the plot until Durandall revealed his server farm, and THAT is when I had my serious WTF moment. But we must never forget the sheer badassery that was Kira crashing Cagali's wedding in the literally biggest "I object!" that anime has ever seen!
I love the fact that this series makes the West AKA 🇺🇸 the bad guys. Not very may media ever touch up on that. This is why seed destiny is my favorite anime and political thriller. This anime was way ahead of its time seeing all the turmoil the west is going through today. That being said, It will be interesting to see what "Gundam seed freedom" has in store for us.😊
"Shin cries because he learns he cant commit genocide today"
Fuck , that line had me rolling
Char chose him because he had seed factor he just never figured out how to use it the entire series.
Oh SEED Destiny. A show where the behind the scenes is so much more interesting and interesting than the show itself
If memory serves 00 also had similar woes after season 1. Its this weird era where the higher ups were very very lazer focused on public opinion especially in Japan
It's the garbage fire where they keep throwing in random things to see what explodes and how it explodes.
I heard that the reason why SEED Destiny ended up how it was. Was because a voice actor in the employ of Sunrise Tomozaku Seki The voice of Domon Kasshu essentially leaked the ending of SEED Destiny online. Apparently the higher ups were so pissed at the leak and breach of contract that the guy was fired and the show had to be re written midway. It was also the reason why his character was cut from the series Mai-Hime and why its sequel Mai-Otome had its former main characters role reduced to pretty much nothing.. Since Toei wasn't willing to risk another Kira Jesus Yamato.
@@aliastheabnormal The reason I heard was the lead writer (the wife of the director) was in and out of the hospital battling caner and she was the only one who had any form of plot notes and didnt share them with anyone. And during her time in hospital suspected that one of the voice actresses was having an affair with the director. The voice actor for Shin said that isnt true so she thought he was in on it and turned shin into the nothing character that we know. Also sunrise blew all the budget on voice actors so the animators had nothing
@@nedmaster1000 What i heard is the cancer was what scuttled the plans for the movie. And that the wife died from cancer. And that its only now that the husband finally got his shit together and got to work on the movie again. And if sunrise blew the budget on voice actors then its a shame. Because its stated that Gundam SEED is cursed and that voice actors get killed off in the show. With Rika Shedder only being alive because her seiyuu turned down her role in SEED.
"Shin acting like episode one Kamille...but forever." OMG someone finally put it into words!!!!
Make sense cuz seed is the alternative universe of the universe century era which fate indeed to make it happen.
@@OwO377 your awesome bro.
And if you think about it, he's deliberately being kept from having any positive character development, because it would not be to interests of Rey and Durandal.
More like kamille midway through zeta
@@Solbrave00 your absolutely right.
“ Normal guy gets girlfriend, Girlfriend dies making him a edgelord, Edgelord gets upstaged by Magic Space Jesus and also there’s a idol for some reason”
Seed destiny everybody
drama shown at the finest.
@@OwO377 best drama
One of the Dramas of all time.
Except that Shin was an edgelord from the moment he was introduced. If he ever was normal it was before his sister died.
@@Norbert_Sattler so he becomes a edgier edgelord then
"Wasted Potential" is my take on Destiny. There's plenty of good hooks in place, but none of them go anywhere thanks to the writers deciding to fall back on Kira being infallible and handing everyone else an idiot ball. This should have been Athrun and Shin's show, but instead Athrun gets his agency assassinated and Shin has absolutely zero changes.
A (kind of) good example of how to use Shinn's narrative while still using Kira is the Gundam Build Divers Re:Rise anime (sequel of gundam Build Divers) which paint the final events of the prequel in other colors.
@@667Kero yeah, that's a comparison that went around a lot in discussions I had while Re:Rise was airing. Hiroto feels a bit like what Shinn would have been had he gotten a complete arc. In broad strokes, anyway. Hiroto was a wildly different person who internalized his trauma in a different way (disassociation vs anger).
Athrun died in Ep 3 onwards. He is filler and just mopes around.
Let's be honest that describes both seed series.
If only someone else wrote GSD. I think OVA side story should be the best way of telling Kira's story as he and Lacus going on the run and lay low after the assassination attempt while try to look for some clues. It would've been interesting had the story focuses on Kira, Lacus and Miriallia as the side story's main characters. Kira and Lacus often shown as platonic throughout the series so a side story should help in their characters' development and have fleshed out relationship. Don't mind if it's just a thriller miniseries OVA with less mobile suit action. The Terminal should be some sort of Orb-based PMC and founded by former Archangel crew with Kira being a contractor.
Ever since this project started I was waiting for Gundam 00. It reignited my love for Gundam and actually made me seek out the original Gundam since I grew up with G and Wing.
The show that sums up" Super Robot Wars fixed it".
Because it did and everybody except Fukuda liked it. It also called Kira out on his bs too.
The series was pretty good
Although they use too much anime series.
The games from the series that I like
Srw z (1-3) srw dd and srw V(5)
It add gundam 00 code geass and gundam seed.
@@nicodalusong149 Fukuda not liking it is the best indicator of quality.
Srw K: Calmly borrows Gundam Seed Desinys homework in the background for its OCs
@@TransparentlyDuplicitous the idea of fukuda not liking it was made up by the fans lol.
I've always imagined that the ORB soldiers just immediately arrange to have the Gouf pilot that squished Yuna be given a medal. It's such a funny image, the idea of some poor Zaft schmuck crawling out of the cockpit before immediately being paraded around by a bunch of ORB soldiers going "WOOOO HE KILLED THAT DOUCHE WOOOOO" while he just looks around in confusion.
I think the saddest thing about Destiny is that there is the bones of a good show under it all, there is so much that it did right, but it is let down horribly by the writing. There's so many chances to make this a better show, to make this something memorable, and because of whatever the hell happened behind the scenes, they throw it all away to be a retread of the original MSG and the original SEED. Also the black tristars cameo really pisses me off for some reason
Destiny was supposed to be the Zeta retread because Seed was already the MSG retread. That was the original plan. The execution was rough but okay at first but once that midway point comes, whoever was holding the story's reigns was definitely asleep at the wheel so to speak.
Destiny's black tristars felt just thrown in there with little to do. A little bit too late at that point to build up more characters when they're failing to build up Shinn, Kira, and Athrun which are present since Ep 1, and are the actual main characters.They could've atleast made the Tristars to atleast elevate Lunamaria as a more credible pilot with having her take one down, or even giving the Dom Troopers to maybe Yzak's squad instead.
Zeta is a better series because it knows who the story is about. Amuro and Char are moved to the background so the story can focus on Kamilie and his growth as a character. Destiny would have been better if they kept the focus on Shinn with Athrun and Cagalli in the background and Kira and Lacus serving as a Dues Ex Machina.
Oh dear SEED Destiny. I've heard horror stories about the behind the scenes production problems this show faced and wow hearing it all play out here really makes me want to avoid the Cosmic Era like the plague. Namely due to the returning characters' regression and being stuck with Shin acting like a raving psycho after Stella's death. If you all want some more extensive details of the behind the scenes shenanigans check out the 3rd part of Des Shinta's Super Robot Wars V review where he goes on about what happened. But the clip notes version, SEED's original writer Chiaki Morisawa was diagnosed with an ovarian cyst and uterine fibroid at the end of SEED's production and wasn't able to work on Destiny while she was receiving treatment. While she did write the outline for SEED Destiny, the writers that Sunrise handed it over to were in no way capable of executing the outline correctly, namely script writer Hiroyuki Yoshino who is the writer that is most responsible for the botched characterization of Shin and Kagali who would later go on to screw up just as badly with Kallen Kozuki and probably C.C in Code Geass R2. Hell SEED Destiny's inclusion in that game was mostly to fix Shin after the conclusion of Destiny by actually having him learn from what happened and admit to nearly helping Durandal enslave the world with the Destiny Plan. And also to fix Djibril by having him and by proxy Logos and Blue Cosmos be the pawns of a much more interesting villain. Hell I think the reason why OO was so good was for Sunrise to do damage control after the reception to Destiny. On that note I can't wait for the OO review, it's currently my favorite Gundam series and available on Hulu as of this comment so anyone who's reading this should check it out before the review.
"Hell I think the reason why OO was so good was for Sunrise to do damage control after the reception to Destiny."
Actually, the reason why 00 is beloved by people like you was because it WAS going to be SEED's successor. No really, look it up! 00 was in conception during SEED's run, and SEED Destiny wound up taking its intended spot due to executive skulduggery. They should've made 00 instead, but they eventually got to after SEED Destiny proved polarising. Also, 2007 marked the return of the UC with Gundam Unicorn, a light novel which would go on to be adapted as my personal favourite Gundam OVA in the early 2010s.
2007 really was a banner year for Gundam, wasn't it?
Oh wow, so a lot of people have *mistakenly* blamed Morosawa for Destiny's writing? Damn, poor woman. May she rest in peace.
No wonder the writing for Destiny probably backfired since not everyone is into returning characters unless they come back in the first episode or around that earlier part. Returning characters can still work but stealing the main character role is *not a good idea* (particularly with Western viewers)
Never heard of all these jorror stories when i was a kid. And still watched seed and seed destiny. Literally my first gundam and went on to Wing
Just watch Seed, and think of Destiny as a What If? story
Thank you for your sacrifice, Retcon. You can see him physically falling apart while doing this video.
I know it's meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but that Peter Cullen (Toonami narrator) impression at the beginning pretty much nails the diction and cadence! Sure, it's not quite deep enough, but 2 out 3 is better than a lot of guys can do.
No one will ever convince me that Shin’s family death wasn’t the stupidest thing. It literally happened cuz his sister refused to leave her damn phone.
actually, the only reason Shin lived was because his sister refused to leave her damn phone
Pretty sure the gov issued evacuation order much earlier too so no idea why they’re still there
If any of you knows Chinese, go search for a Taiwanese channel who hailed Shinn to such high levels (and shares the same namesake) it's mostly nauseating to sit through his rants, ranging from Kira's invincibility & messianic complex (although most people definitely agree on that part) to Athrun's continuous wavering in decision makings and the downing of Destiny & Impulse Gundams (his personal favorite MSs in the entire franchise), slandering Orb's existence, sparing Luna and Rey on purpose, applauding Durandal for his own godlike infallible ways of trying to sort Cosmic Era out; the list keeps going on.
it almost seems like commentary on how it's difficult to keep things in perspective when your entire world is exploding around you
Ah Gundam Seed Destiny, the show that started off decent, ending up off rails as soon as Kira became the protagonist again.
Least the OPs and soundtrack were amazing.
Plus Lunamaria was hot 🔥♥️
My Gundam Seed Waifu.
It's funny, they thought they were giving the fans what they wanted. But ended up producing something nobody wanted.
Honestly, as much as I like Kira…if anything he should’ve had a role similar to Amuro in Zeta. I can understand him getting involved in the war because Z.A.F.T after his girl and Orb aligning with the Earth Alliance’s Atlantic Federation, but your telling me that Cagalli didn’t have anyone who was loyal to her that would’ve followed her when she voiced her discontent with Orb essentially being forced into an alliance with the very same force that attacked them 2 years prior which resulted in Izumi Ahtha (I don’t know if I spelled the surname right.) having to blow up Orb.
@@kira17801 yeah, Orb could have been interesting if we actually saw something that showed the split between Orbs populace, and not just the viewpoint of the politicians and 1-2 random officers.
Is it just a Japanese thing, cause it be an interesting inverse to Japan's reaction at the end of WW2: where the civilian populace were willing to give up after two nukes dropped, but the military rather continue fighting because "they'd been bombed before, what is one megaton bomb achieving all the other bombings hadn't already achieved."
Slight correction: Yzak wasn't in the Battle of Orb - it was the fighting with the EA's Biological CPUs (the Druggies) that got Shinn's family. That battle was being fought between ORB's Defense Forces vs the Alliance, so it makes sense that a Coordinator like Shinn would side with ZAFT since he hates both ORB and the EA.
I don't think he cares. He purnounced durandall wrong for the whole thing.
I spent some of what I'll call my "formative internet years" watching the bad tv recorded fansubs of Destiny week to week when I was still in highschool. I gotta say, I have never seen a community of people go through the entire spectrum of human emotions as we did while Destiny was chugging along back then. Those IRC's and Ventrillo servers were never the same after the midway point and they did the fake out Kira Death again. Complete and total demoralization, bargaining, anger, the contrarians saying it was the best gundam yet. Everything. Absolutely wild time.
One thing I truly do like in Seed Destiny is that Heine Westenfluss (probably misspelled that) was voiced by the singer Takanori Nishikawa who wrote and sang four major ost tracks for Seed/Seed Destiny being the first opening for each series: Invoke (Seed) and Ignite (Seed Destiny) but he also sang the vocal pieces Meteor and Vestige, his cameo in the series just shows how much the studio loved his music and the contributions he made to the soundtrack.
Takanori also appeared in EP1 of seed as the person who WAS gonna pilot the strike, but kira killed him
He voiced two characters, both of whom died shortly after their introduction.
@@Dharengo still showed up in an anime and was great all the time
@@XTempestBuster I don't think he'd get the freedom- Miguel was more of a foot solder the heanie was....
But Miguel got an orange ginn that was 3 times faster and got disabled by gain earlier- he was sadly destined to die in early seed and kiras first kill
@@Matanumi i meant strike
55:44 "And then Athrun kicks the Destiny Gundam so hard that Shinn's entire soul leaves his body." 😂😂😂
I remember when I watched this scene back in college, I cheered so hard for Athrun that I woke up my roommate (it was night).😅
Lmao😂
It's beautiful .
Athrun kicks Shinn in the shin
What pisses off most folks about SEED Destiny isn't that it was bad, but that it had the potential to be really _good_ and squandered that potential so thoroughly. The main problem is that all the characters simply existed as archetypes instead of developing as people, which means they didn't change so much as they reacted to the plot in different ways. It hurts that would could have been a great series, and had the ... _seeds_ to be, completely failed to blossom into something noteworthy.
"We just saw this episode"
Well. When I was young, we used to watch TV shows once a week. Sometimes you might even miss an episode.
I know we today are all about the binge, and repeating story beats is often felt as tedious. It was often needed back in the day due to how shows were presented.
The Lacus is evil theory has the same energy as the Sith Jar Jar Binks theory.
You mean it’s stupid?
@@DarthBigBen yeah but its so stupid i kinda like it
@@pandorasnyactor474 It pisses me off because I like Lacus.
I really liked Shin as a character. Wait wait, wait, hear me out.
I'm someone who enjoys stories at a conceptual level. So what I really liked was the _idea_ of Shin, a flawed but understandable character. Who would eventually, not necessarily see the error of his ways, but grow and change in a way where he becomes a better person.
...Yeah that never happened, the character was done dirty by the writers. I cannot, however, find it in my heart to hate Shin for this.
Exactly. I hate Shin because he could have been so much _better_ than what he turned out to be. Not necessarily an ally but a person who begins to grow from being single-minded to having a more world-view.
@@andrewowens4421 shin was pretty likeable in the beginning of the show, then they made him act like a little brat as soon as Kira is in the center of the picture
Same though and stance man. Fav SEED character cuz of that. an unpopular preference, i know. Oddly enough, the only surviving character that got development in 50 episodes. Shinn's an ultimate redemption underdog when he gets to fulfil that arc someday.
I found it enjoyable later on cause I sorta had fun joking with the absurdity of the show and having a headcannon 4th wall breaking reason for Shin to hate Kira because he stole his show.
Look up srw z if you want better treatment for shinn
That Toonami monologue in the beginning….PURE NOSTALGIA!
I watched Seed Destiny right after finishing Seed. I thought the first 6 episodes were pretty decent then after that a slow decline that by the last 15 episodes was truly painful to finish.
Wasted potential really. Could've been a better, polished Stardust Memory.
I will say I did enjoy the heavy Arthurian lore used throughout Destiny. The XO is Arthur (obvious connection), the Minervas weapons are called the Tristans and Isoldes (Tristan was a knight of the round table Isolde was his lover), the Impulse uses Excalibur (obvious connection), the Destiny uses Arondight (Lancelots sword), the packs are called Wizards (reference to Merlin), Durandels name (named after the French sword which is viewed as the French equivalent to Excalibur in terms of fame and legend) etc.
Destiny uses Arthurian mythos? Aw man!
@@TheFLAMEXD sure
I just noticed that the King Arthur myth was also present in SEED, with Lacus’s name being a possible reference to the Lady of the Lake, who gifted Arthur with Excalibur.
Lacus refers to the Freedom (and its successors) as Kira’s sword.
If anything, Kira, Shinn, and Athrun are Arthur, Lancelot, and Percival, respectively.
If you like Mu as a mentor character, but hate what happened to him, you’ll love Woolf Enneacle from AGE. Don’t worry AGE doesn’t have bring back people despite supposedly being more catered to children. Honestly it has its dark moments.
AGE is so underrated.
@@westonmeyer3110 I really do love AGE a lot. The story really never felt like it was for children to me. It still had that dark Gundam tone. And the MS designs were all amazing. Down to the grunts all the way to the Gundams.
age would've been better if it wasn't rushed or haphazard, especially with the 3-generations story. I still found Asemu's arc to be the best imo@@Jociaoftrades
@@qibcentricsplayground2043 the same goes with dragon ball GT near the end. With a bit more time AGE would have been pretty damn good.
Seed Destiny has some Easter Eggs from Cyber Formula and I like that since some of the staff from that show put in the work for Gundam Seed and Destiny
From what I understand, the show’s biggest problem behind the scenes was changing to a director who adored Kira and Lacus and loathed all of the new characters (IIRC it was the director of SEED, but I may be mistaken). Notice that it was around the time that Kira was being pushed back into main protagonist role that Shinn’s character development completely stalled, if not reversed entirely. It makes me wonder what this show could have been if this change had not occurred. Keeping in line with the Zeta comparison, this show is what would happen if Amuro and Char teamed up and started attacking both the Titans and AEUG.
If you want the dark ending of “asshole tricks everyone into letting them rule the world”, that’s what we have IBO for.
I was waiting for this one to drop before I watched the Gundam SEED one. This is probably the only Gundam SEED Destiny media I will ever willingly consume, and I thank you for the video, because you make the subjects easy to listen to, and more importantly, fun to do so. Expect my comment on the SEED video in three days lol. Thanks again, and keep up the good work!
Destiny has so many cool mobile suites, and awesome moments...... but S.E.E.D. happened.
The Akatsuki getting saved by the Strike Freedom, soaring down from space like a meteor is godly! S.E.E.D. already had a track record of showing "cockpit go boom =/= dead." I'm down. It's actually logical. All throughout the franchise we have those moments.
Neo having his moment where he seems to be coming back into himself is touching...... but SEED DAMIT! Mu died the manliest of deaths to save his friend and lover. WTF did they stomp all over that legacy?! We already had a SOLID AF set-up for the DeFlaga clones being a thing!
And Shinn...... simply insufferable!
Seriously wish Rey could have lived and went on to fight with the others, or live his own life since Kira literally just got through to him! And also, at that moment, wtf did Kira continue to wreak the Legend? Wasn't Rey frozen in his realization? He should have let him sit there and process, not hyper torch in t in lol.
I seriously do need to see the movie now. SEEMS like the Athrun, Kira, and Shinn were supposed to end up united after it was all done, even if it seems they decided to go about it in a crazy way.
IDK earth forces being cartoonishly evil the entire time kinda just made everything silly.
That being said, CE was just about the earth forces nuking the PLANTS so I guess we're just used to them, i guess.
Even in Seed Kira was willing to kill if he had no choice (he says he's willing to shoot people to keep the n jammer canceller tech safe and he goes out against Azrael). Stella's death was a "shot the dog" moment. It wasn't pleasant but it was the only way
You seem to have misunderstood the problem with Stella's death. Stella's death was not only specifically Kira's fault, but a contradiction to his no-kill methodology. Despite how rushed the romance was, Shin was able to break through to Stella and get her to calm down, possibly leading to a end to the battle where she lived. Stella lost control again when Kira re-engaged, which then lead to Kira needing to kill Stella. And while this was a failure of the writers ability to keep Jesus Yamato consistent, it does make sense as to why Shin went full edgelord against Kira being this was the second time the Freedom took his loved ones' life
Yeah.
Kira didn’t immediately re-engage though. He stood in background when he noticed Shin was getting through to Stella. Stella saw him and went berserk as she had been effectively conditioned into wanting the kill the Freedom Gundam. Kira couldn’t have reasonably known how mentally unstable Stella would become in response to his presence.
For once, Kira doesn’t actually need to be absolved of any sins because he can’t really be blamed for her death. He also only destroyed the cannons and not the cockpit.
It’s whoever designed the Destroy Gundam’s fault that doing so would subsequently kill the pilot with shrapnel.
@@thedigitaldummy3098 there are a few points you have misunderstood about why kira is to blame. While Stella did freak out at seeing the freedom, Kira IS responsible in 2 ways. First, why did kira pull up in the first place? Out of all characters, Kira would be the most likely to hang back considering he's done so with Cagali and orb, the minerva vs the archangle, every fight he's had with athrun has them stand there and talk. He should have known to stay back because of how many times he was in shins position. Secondly, why did he immediatly attack instead of backing off? If a man is keeping a lion calm but it growls when I get closer, Ill back the fuck off regardless of the knife in my hand. As to Kira not knowing his attack would kill, Stella's cockpit was open, making it clear that the head wasn't a safe target, especialy for Kira who is experienced enough to know how to NOT damage cockpits when FIRING BARRAGES.
SEED Destiny ends, and Daybreak's Bell starts playing.
This might have been the best episode of retrospective, I chuckled the entire time. I got a quarter of the way through Destiny and just couldn't do it. I'm glad I didn't finish and saw this instead, it really hit the nail on the head.
SEED Destiny has also been compiled into 4 movies. Movies are told "from Athrun's perspective" and have more streamlined flow than series, plus movies have all flashback scenes cut out which alone makes them worth watching instead of series. Last movie also include extended ending which initially was not present in episodes but later they released extended edition of the final episode.
Good review. I agree with all of your points except two things:
1) Kira never really have a "no kill policy". Kira will disarm opposing Mobile Suits the best he can and let fate sort survivors out. If situation requires it, Kira will have no hesitation to kill. Back in SEED, Kira/Freedom worked together with Athrun/Justice to destroy Calamity Gundam along with the pilot (Orga) inside. Kira also killed Rau coz he simply went too far gone.
2) From the above point, now you should understand why Kira has no problem killing the pilot inside Destroy Gundam. Stellar/Destroy simply already killed too many (hundreds of) civillians before Kira arrived. Stellar/Destroy already far passed a point of forgiveness and needs to be stopped/offed/killed. Same thing with Kira fully prepared to kill Durandal simply coz he already went too far by nuking a country.
One more thing, the Destiny Astray manga (which ran alongside SEED Destiny) show confirmed that Durandal was behind the Patrick Zala loyalists who showered the Earth with big rocks & Lacus assassination attempt on the beach manor.
What are you talking about? The DESTINY Astray manga made it very clear that the organization called The Clan, who were infact truly responsible for instigating the Zala Loyalists into dropping Junius Seven. It's even also hinted that they could've been the ones responsible for the assassination attempt on Lacus since it's mentioned that she, Kira, Lowe, Gai, Jess, and Edward were viewed by The Clan to be potential threats. We see this first hand in the manga that The Clan framed Lowe for making the Katana blades for the GINN High Maneuver Type IIs that the Zala Loyalists were using for their mobile suits. Heck, there was even a hit out on Edward and Jess by The Clan due to what happened back in the United States of South America in the first arc.
@@brandonscott4808 The Astray manga that I read was the one with the reporter MC piloting the Astray Outframe. I say this without revisiting the manga again so you can correct me if I'm wrong but in that manga, it is heavily insinuated that Durandal was the one that's leaking the Chaos, Gaia, Abyss data to the EA for them to steal. And at one point Durandal also insinuated that the Junius 7 drop was all according to plan and he was upset that the assassination on Lacus failed. But again, you can crosscheck and is welcomed to correct me 👍. After all, I myself hate mis-information, especially if it comes from me.
@androyus No problem. So, for the first part about Chaos, Gaia, and Abyss being leaked, it had nothing to do with Durandal because it's actually shown in the manga (in chapter 10) that The Clan sent a spy to steal data on the three Gundams. After they got what they wanted, the spy was killed, and The Clan gave the data to Phantom Pain. As for the second part, you were right about Durandal being possibly behind the Colony drop on Earth (after rereading that scene in the GSDA manga), given Bernadette's thoughts on her conversation with the chairman. Lastly, for the assassination attempt on Lacus, theirs still a strong chance that Matisse and the Clan were responsible because by the time the manga reached the 3rd arc, The Clan started targeting the 13 Irregulars which included:
Ace: Kira Yamato
2: Lowe Guele
3: Gai Murakumo
4: The Professor
6: Edward Harrelson
Jack: Jean Carry
Queen: Lacus Clyne
Joker: Jess Rabble
They even stole the Proto Saviour from ZAFTs Carpentaria base and wouldn't be surprising that they might have even stolen the ASH mobile suits in the process. But I think the assassination attempt will never come to light since GSD is filled with so many plot holes that were never resolved, not even in the Astray series.
@@brandonscott4808 Thanks for sharing the info & jogging my memory 👍
@@androyus No problem 😊
Oh man, what a show. My friends and I used to jokingly call this show Gundam Seed Density because of how dense the characters were.
Good name
SEED Destiny (unfortunately?) has a special place in my heart as the first Gundam series I ever watched and finished. I was still in high school and had smol brain syndrome so all I really cared about when it came to Gundam was big mechs fighting each other. Back then I didn't know what good writing was and I also wasnt aware what the core plot points of a proper Gundam show were. It's thanks to this channel and the man himself Retcon_404 that I finally learned SEED Destiny is considered a bad Gundam series and also what Gundam as a franchise is really about. I have finally realized I dont actually enjoy watching Gundam anime since my favorite part are the mobile suits lol
Why would you start from destiny instead of seed ?
Gundam SEED and then destiny were actually my first and second anime shows I ever watched, thanks to my ex gf. And to be honest, even through all the criticism I still love the show and I actually enjoyed the anti war points it was making.
Keep in mind I liked the matrix reloaded more than the original. I liked MGS2 more than MGS1.. and I think that that movie and game get a lot of hate for the same reason Gundam Seed Destiny does. There’s some really deep philosophical concepts that make you rethink what is right and what is wrong and why you’re doing anything.. and I just don’t think people process that well as a good story. Most people like the black and white of knowing who the bad guy is and knowing they have bad intentions, and knowing who the good guy is and knowing they’re doing the right thing.
I personally live for the confusing stories where “winning” (if it involves killing people) sits wrong a little on your moral compass. And I love when enough perspectives are shown to where everyone has a lot to lose and their own motivations.
Gundeam SEED Destiny: Well, at least it's not Gundam AGE. When you killed the 50 episode anime format. You know you fucked up.
So, your issue with Heine boils down to them hiring a famous pop star as his VA and nit having enough money to keep him in the show for very long. I agree that it's kind of silly to just have him in for like 3 episodes while trying to make him semi important of a character.
Realistically destiny should have ended when Shinn stabs the freedom through the cockpit with the arondight and blowing both of the suits up. But this is CE were talking about so we knew that wouldn't happen.
There was also a ton of missed opportunities to have Luna be developed as a character and have her fill destiny's athrun role like she was supposed to.... but hey, who needs to have new characters when we can just keep reusing the cast from the first series right?
I still like Shinn no matter what the fans say cause I believe the creator had big plans for Shinn long run but when she became ill and her husband gave most control to Bandai and sunrise they figured to go the same route and focus back on Kira and Athrun instead focus on the new cast and sure Shinn was an asshole threw most of the series but I'll tell you like I tell everyone else, would you be in the right state of mind to be nice to anyone short of your close friends after what happened to your family right in front of your face?
Edit: 1 that is a (guess glass) rose petal that Stella gives Shinn, I guess it was never explained in the anime but the wiki does and if you look at it does
Edit 2: how is killing someone that took care of you fucked up in this sense? Shinn is in a giant mech, destroying ships and stuff. is he really gonna look into the ship before he attacks? That moment, more or less happens to show how bad war can be and how it can hurt so many people or at least that's how I felt with that moment
Youre right
He didnt know that the person who save d him was in that battleship. So hating shinn based in that is misplaced really.
It's a shell.
From the beach cave thing they were stranded on....
Want to know one sad thing about Shinn? He got an awesome character arc... In SRW.
The writer of Destiny is always salty when people say that, really really salty about it.
SWR does so much better by the destiny characters than their own show does
@@Jonnyg325 from what i see in comment sections and reddit posts, Destiny is actually pretty great in every other media except the anime. Like the dedicated games and SRW, mangas and novels
I was not a big fan of Seed, but dang Seed Destiny is a pain. My condolences, having to go through both series like this must've been rough.
So shinn’s reasoning for not liking orb the political state makes perfect sense. The idealist idea of letting citizens die so you can stay on a high ground creates monsters. With that stated he should hate all ZAFT just as must as the alliance and orb
yes! Yes! YES!
It feels like it's been so long since a Gundam Retrospective.
But I'm here for it ALL!
Finally someone pointed out Todaka's death scene in the series. Basically started off Shinn's fall from grace IMO.
What sucks is that we clearly see the Impulse looking right at the captain's deck and to think that Shinn could've at least had a momentary closer look even for a brief moment...man, this show really screwed him over, and that is fact.
Also, if there's anyone to blame for Stella's death really, it's Shinn. He's seen what the Earth Alliance are capable of when it comes to mishandling Extendeds. He KNOWS they'll just turn her into a weapon again (which they eventually did). I know he was kind of in a tight situation there, but I wouldn't mind it if Shinn got at least wishy washy going all touchy feely and indecisive on what to do with Stella rather that simply just handing her over back to Neo. I guarantee you that had he not hand Stella over to Neo, her death and the Freedom vs Impulse fight would've taken completely different meanings for the series.
Man, I sure hope the planned sequel movie will do our poor emo boi justice, but I have little hope.
One last thing: You know you made a bad show when even the Chibi parodies did the new characters justice and better than the main show.
I remember being so confused the first time I watched destiny. The alliance were mustache twirling villains the whole show then the last few episodes try to convince me Durandel was the bad guy the whole time with the destiny plan someone made up last minute
I’ve only ever watched this show twice: once for the first time in college and then almost a decade later for review on my blog and I want that combined 100 episodes of my life back. This show does have a strong opening but everything else is weighed down by repetition, character assassinations and Shinn being one of the most infuriating ass hats in the franchise. For a long time Seed Destiny was the rock bottom of Gundam for me…then I saw G Reco and…yeah can’t wait to hear your thoughts on that one dude
SEED Destiny was my very first Gundam series, a weird place to start. It had just finished airing and I wanted to watch whatever the newest series was. I wasn't even aware it was a sequel until a good few episodes in, which really made the main character switch baffling to me as the characters I knew just got side-lined for these really preachy guys, that just stole the show.
A young teenage me ended up really enjoying a lot of it, despite many flaws. The music, the mechs, some really nice fights scenes, that's all my young brain needed. It is all thanks to the Impulse Gundam and Shinn that I have become the fan of the franchise that I am today.
So, thank you SEED Destiny, you beautiful mess.
When I see Shin Azuka, I see Anakin Skywalker as Darth Vader without the quad amputations and erd degree burns. The rest of the anime, looks like an updated but similar storyline to Gundam Seed. The mecha's are cool.
It's been so long since I've seen either seed or seed destiny. I have fonder memories of seed but I do recall this one being a tad lackluster in certain elements. Keep at it my man lovin the content 😤😤
They could have called rays zaku the white wolf a nice call back to another ace pilot with a white zaku also considering what blue cosmos wanted orbs mass driver for in the first series I wonder if shin would have preferred that they just let them have it
i just wanted to say; thank you, your retrospective series has been a foundation in saving me from my depression, i actually lost the ability to enjoy any anime until i stumbled across your G Gundam retrospective and thus the others including this one. i appreciate the honest (even some biased) commentary as it come across as honest and shows real love for the shows and the Whole of what a series did/didn't do. keep doing you, and again thank you for the content you make.
My biggest gripe with Destiny is the character designs, or lack thereof.
They seriously copy/pasted faces for so many characters, and it’s only gotten worse once Fafner started airing, followed by all the other mecha anime he’s worked on
I legitimately couldn’t tell Kagali and Stella apart for the longest time and it makes zero sense for them to be so similar looking other than just lazy design
The artist has a "same face syndrome" situation going on with how they draw. It's a worse version of reusing a character because the artist really likes the design.
Its the outfit & body
But hey, your bias
Meer & lacus is pretty obvious who's who
How on earth did you confuse Stella and Cagari unless you straight up were not paying attention
I knew instantly in the intro that you were making fun of the Peter Cullen toonami promos. Made me Glee when I heard the rip
Gotta love those old bumpers and Intros. Cullen is a legend.
@@Retcon404 damn right, actually just finished the review and I largely agree with you. This series had so much potential but due to the writers it fell flat on its face.
Dude... Shinn and Stella's relationship feels as bad as the no development between Harry Potter and Ginny Weasley in the Harry Potter movies...
It wasn't that developed in the books either.
FINALLY!!! SOMEONE POINTS OUT THE STUPIDITY OF REI’s DEATH!
I enjoyed Gundam SEED when it came out. I was of an age and mindset at the time that it clicked for me. Classic Gundam action mixed with some extra early 2000s young adult drama and having some good visuals and music. It hit the right sweet spot for my tastes at the time.
SEED Destiny, on the other hand, just utterly lost me about half way through. I think the point I gave up was when Athrun and Kira were meeting and it was just so frustrating. There were so few good reasons for the backslide in the relationships and character development. I just couldn't take the pointless, contrived and utterly nonsensical melodrama of it all. Add to that just how incredibly unlikable Shin was, and I just gave up on the series.
@@asimhussain8716 seed has its flaws but I do consider it a good series and has really memorable moments, destiny pretty much repeated many things from the first seed but without the tension and dread that made the former series enjoyable and does not really advance the cosmic era in any meaningful way.
@@asimhussain8716 though how mu survived was just terribly hand waved becuse he could never have survived.
While I don't think Destiny is as good overall as Seed (especially when it comes to character development), and while I acknowledge the character issues in Destiny, I still really enjoyed it. Saying this as I finished watching it last night. I wish they did more with some of the characters, but I wasn't bothered by Kira being back as most other people seem to be. In the second half of the show, the reusing of animations and 2 or 3 clip-show episodes was a little bit annoying but nothing I couldn't get over. I enjoyed the chairman as a villain more than the villains in Seed (at least up to the last 2 episodes). And Lunamaria was hot.
Here is my fan theory: the real protagonist of the series is Athrun. If you combine the total runtime of both Seed and Destiny, Athrun has the most screen time. Shin didn't exist in seed, and Kira was on vacation during the first arc of destiny, Athrun however is present in almost every episode!
Would the story make more sense if he is the real protagonist? Probably not, but I think it's funny.
36:02 Neo: I promise not to put her in a mobiles suit got it......never said anything about mobile armour
Hilarious intro 🤣 😂. I gave up on this show after 5 episodes. Thanks for this video. Keep up the awesome work. Cheers.
The designs from the seed series were something
The alliance designs are amazing, it's like what the universal century did with the GMs, but all based off of the dagger from SEED. And the ZAFT designs that are not retreads of Zeon designs are pretty damn good too.
@@Jonnyg325 It really got sad when they stopped trying & just outright reused a modern-era drawn DOM.
Even a gundam show as bad as this, is still worth watching for the mobile suits and fights
In GSD, the gundams are cool and great but story is meh…
+ points that Chainman Gilbert is voice by non other The Red Comet
Also I don’t think Kira intended to kill Stella, if he wanted to kill her, he would have jab that beam saver into the pilot cockpit, my point of view, Kira still refuse to kill at that moment, Remember Kira did not kill Rau
This show could've been so good...
I was reading comments on episodes as I watched them, it was funny seeing people say things like "I hate Shinn" and "I want Kira back." Be careful what you wish for I guess.
I still enjoyed this one more than Wing.
I still have no idea how they're gonna make that sequel movie work.
I fucking love the Toonami voiceover. Thank you.
Oh Heine's death is WAY dumber than just Stella getting behind him. Stella was actually trying to attack Kira with the Gaia's beam blades and Heine FLEW INTO HER PATH. So no, Stella wasn't even trying to kill him there, the goof in a Gouf has zero spatial awareness and flew himself into a beam blade... Can't even blame Stella for that let alone Kira...
It's such a cheap echo of the death of Nicol that I have felt *to this day* that Athrun being a double-agent for Lacus all along would have made far more sense.
@@Grizabeebles I mean at least Nicole was trying to get that beam sword swung at him. He was trying to take the hit/distract Kira for Athrun.
Stella just flat out launched herself at Kira, and Heine get in between them like a dolt.
„Goof in a GOUF“😂 you just made my day
I think calling lacus "the true villain" is a disservice to her character, it comes off that way but there's a bit more to read into there
Eh, to be fair its the only explanation as to how she held such a strong military status where she could even make a mobile suit rivalling the same modern itterations.
I mean she did it in seed where she completely infiltrated militaries so how has that changed?
It would also explain why she didn't became a colony leader after seed as there were still parties that could challenge her rule.
With destiny ending there are no rivalling militaries or governments and like the fake lacus being a idol of unity to the colonies she now became one for everyone.
With ORB being a puppet state as a close ally considering ORBs strong leadership was already whipped in to subjegation after the whole LOGOs thing.
As a disservice i would have to ask what disservice? She never played the pacifist in the origional show nor in this one.
She simply didn't get her hands dirty like a good mastermind would do.
It may not be covered in the show but there are a lot of things where you go :
Huh... I guess she has an entire independant military industrial complex with a private and civilian army to achieve all of that in under 2 years.
You know that Destiny is forgettable when you forget that it wasn't Yzak that Kira was fighting in the beginning.
I just wanna live in a world where Destiny never happened. Gundam hasn't been the same since.
Still in the early parts of your video but yeah they did do Shin dirty in Destiny. Had so much potential being one of the best written Gundam characters in my opinion. Nice opening btw
Despite how stupid this show gets, SEED Destiny has a special place in my heart.
I can tell you watched the remaster not the OG. The neutron stampeder was a one off counter weapon bc the "quantum fernels" burnt out in the original dubs and its stated/shown as such (the fernels melted)
Next point: the arch angel didnt detonate a bomb under water, it was engine two which had been hit by the tarnhauser.
The hacking of the ragnarock files was a cover for Durandal to justify killing Meyrin and Athrun.
The archangel returns for repairs from the damage from the Minerva.
Those tubes are o'neal cylinder colonies they have been retired since the building of the plants.
One consequence of the bad wtiting in SEED and Destiny seems to be that Coordinators are all absolute hypocrites when it comes to killing.
Almost every one of them is seemingly willing to swear revenge on anyone who kills someone they have even the slightest personal attachment to. Even when the person being killed is a professional soldier and said killing is basically indistinguishable from self-defense.
Meanwhile, those same coordinator pilots justify all the lives they take without a second thought.
I highly contribute this Gundam Series' issues to the loss of the main writer Chiaki Morosawa...
The reason Rey shot Gilbert wasn’t for the choices of Rey’s own life. It was actually for Shin.
Shin was who Rey was referring to in the “His tomorrow” line.
I know there is some talk about the behind the scenes dram in comments. But I'm just gonna say almost none of the stuff about the drama is actually true. There was a lot of fake info floating around, about the behind the scenes stuff back in the day and Destiny sucking, just kind of caused people to take a lot of it at face value.
Adore your videos. Thank you for taking one for the team and watching such a bad show :)
Can't wait for more content
And a well deserved break. That being said, Stargazer is a solid entry in the Cosmic Era and I look forward to your review of it, should you please.
4:44... I didn't have a problem with the fan service in Seed Destiny 😅.
Me: All right, let's get this train wreck started so it can properly crash and burn.
Retcon_404: Toonami voice.
Me: 🤣 This is gonna be good.
Yeaah the constant flashback make Shin's tragic backstory unintentionally funny
Right so the next one is 00. Can't wait.
Isn't shin more like than Kira now then back then. Super robot wars really helped Shinn as a character. Also its gun dam double o not double zero sorry I didnt want to be that guy. Great video by the way! 👍
I just realized, Durandal wants to create the setting of a YA Distopian Novel.
You deserve way more subs and views!
At times like this, I'm so happy I watched both Seed and Seed Destiny in sub. The ugly crying wasn't too bad
The halo music made me unreasonably happy, thank you for that.
Gundam SEED and then destiny were actually my first and second anime shows I ever watched, thanks to my ex gf. And to be honest, even through all the criticism I still love the show and I actually enjoyed the anti war points it was making.
Keep in mind I liked the matrix reloaded more than the original. I liked MGS2 more than MGS1.. and I think that that movie and game get a lot of hate for the same reason Gundam Seed Destiny does. There’s some really deep philosophical concepts that make you rethink what is right and what is wrong and why you’re doing anything.. and I just don’t think people process that well as a good story. Most people like the black and white of knowing who the bad guy is and knowing they have bad intentions, and knowing who the good guy is and knowing they’re doing the right thing.
I personally live for the confusing stories where “winning” (if it involves killing people) sits wrong a little on your moral compass. And I love when enough perspectives are shown to where everyone has a lot to lose and their own motivations.
I’ve taken to agreeing with BOOFIRE191’s take on this series, that Destiny started off okay, but lost what little ground it had midway through. There’s stuff I like, but the whole product is really weak
As someone who loved SEED, I'll be the first to concede that Stargazer is the peak of the Cosmic Era
Stargazer.
@@nicodalusong149 Damn autocorrect.
@@asimhussain8716 Seed is better than Destiny, I don't think there any contension to that statement. It's just that when comparing Seed to First Gundam, which it was supposed to be a retread of for the then newer generation, it drops the ball when it really shouldn't. An example would be Waltfeld, the Ramba Ral expy, surviving his fight with Kira when he should have died. The point of his character was to be a "there are decent people on the opposing side and it sucks we have to fight them" lesson but that gets thrown out the window because he survives. Because they miss telling the lesson with Waltfeld, they try again with Nichol but that fails because Kira never gets to spend time with Nichol unlike Waltfeld, so there is no connection and no feeling of loss even in the slightest once Nichol dies. They even edit the scene in the remaster to make it look like an accident as if appealing to the audience to feel sad for Nichol. It's bad when you have to do something like that just to fix the story. The simplest fix would have been to keep him dead but have Da Costa, Waltfeld's second-in-command, be the one supporting Lacus.
There's also the issue of Seed intentionally dialing back the science fiction to make way for rule of cool which feels a bit like a slap in the face since Gundam has always been on the harder side of sci-fi (even G Gundam has some of it despite being a Hong Kong Martial Arts movie most of the time).
@@asimhussain8716 You think it's silly but that was the plan for the show and it is a fact, not an opinion. You can head over to the GAMORE channel. It is a japanese gundam-focused channel. There is a video about the making of Gundam Seed if I remember correctly.
I'm not saying it has to be an exact copy, but my point is since it was going to be using the same themes/messages as First Gundam, then it should do them properly. I'm okay with the additional teen drama angle Seed added by using Flay. That was a good addition given the history of gundam (as in female viewership helping the franchise multiple times since the beginning).
@@asimhussain8716 I'm not asking for an exact copy. There is "doing it properly" insofar as writing is concerned. It doesn't have to be done the exact same way but it has to get the message across clearly. The issue with Waltfeld is that he's a almost a straight copy of Ramba, who is an integral part of the story that he's part of (in relation to the main character's personal growth and to a recurring theme in gundam in general), with the exception that he survives. It is his survival that necessitates the whole Nichol event for the message they're trying to get across which was originally the Ramba Ral lesson but this second pass at delivering the lesson was done poorly compared to the setup for Waltfeld. Think about what message the audience is going to derive from such messy writing. Instead of the intended "war is bad because so and so" they're getting something like "Waltfeld's too good of a character to die here so plot armor for him only" or something like "self-defense isn't allowed so Kira is at fault for killing Nichol". My point is that while gundam can and does have different themes per show, there are main recurring themes. Seed's attempt at getting this specific recurring theme was messy and results in it missing. It tried to do something new (points for trying) but unfortunately it failed to execute it properly and in turn failed to deliver the intended message.
I'm not sure if I've explained it adequately, but tried to make it as clear as possible that 1) I'm not looking for an exact copy, the writers are free to do as they like since it's their story to tell and 2) writing-wise there was an issue with the payoff with Waltfeld and an issue with the setup for Nichol hence it being done incorrectly in my view (it didn't land right/it didn't land as expected/it didn't get the message across clearly/it didn't get the right message across). If this still doesn't clear things up, let's just leave things at that.
Well the frozen lake thing could have been a saint seiya joke
Oh boy here we go
I never finished Seed or Seed Destiny, but watched Stargazer and was surprised at how good it was. Haven't seen it since it was new though, so I only really remember the great mobile suit designs lol
Honestly I always felt that after Seed Kira and Lacus naively thought they could just piece out from the whole world feeling they had done their part and leave the reformation to others They then only after Lacus was nearly killed tried to do what worked in Seed, become a 3rd voice but there were just too many manipulators in the background for it to work again in the same way especially with a fake Lacus basically using Lacus' own influence against them. Frankly Lacus should have revealed the fake Lacus deception far earlier. By the end it does show them taking on a more direct role to try and fix things with Lacus becoming the new Zaft chairman and both moving to the Plants, though I do thing they really made some major stumbles along the way.
Honestly It never made sense to me that either of them would actually stop trying to help unless public opinion or something made them. Lacus herself was stepping up as a result of her father's death. Unless they were just on vacation for a bit, their characters were pretty assassinated too tbh
So lacus becomes queen of space with no one to challange her ?
Yes! Thanks for watching!
The pop idol thing was just another of her subtle manipulations to get people to drop their guards around her. Now that all her enemies have been slain and the rest of the world loves her she'll rule with an iron fist!
I watched bootleg subs of this show when it was released, so I was never subjected to the horrors of the English dub. Music was good, and the shot of Junius 7 burning in reentry was beautiful in an "oh shit we're gonna die" kinda way. And one can never have too much fanservice! But I was hemming and hawing at the plot until Durandall revealed his server farm, and THAT is when I had my serious WTF moment. But we must never forget the sheer badassery that was Kira crashing Cagali's wedding in the literally biggest "I object!" that anime has ever seen!
I love the fact that this series makes the West AKA 🇺🇸 the bad guys. Not very may media ever touch up on that. This is why seed destiny is my favorite anime and political thriller. This anime was way ahead of its time seeing all the turmoil the west is going through today. That being said, It will be interesting to see what "Gundam seed freedom" has in store for us.😊