Same thing actually. Frigates were the original "cruising" warships of the fleet in the age of sail. That role was taken over by (light) (armored) cruisers in the age of steam till the end of WW2. Ever since then the term "cruiser died out more and more and Frigates started to take over the cruising role again.
Despite the F127s being called frigates (mainly for political reasons), those ships will be the most heavily armed guided missile warships of any western european navy so far. Beating out the british Type 45s (48 cell VLS, 2003), french/italian Horizons (48 cell VLS, 2002) and danish Iver Huitfeldts (56 cell VLS, 2008, currently the most heavily armed western european warship if equipped with the AAW module). Or as we would say in german „n richtig dickes Ding“.
When I see newly designed ships, I wondered why NSM is not designed for VLS. In this sense, you could install annother row of VLS batteries (+ 2 Mk41 modules) in the middle of this ship design. This would double the possible number of NSMs carried or create space for 8 more long-range missiles or 32 more ESSM or IRIS-T SLX missiles.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣German Economy is Tanking fast . Ursula Fon . Has Destroyed Europa ! the Russian Zircons ''and the Bastion and the Russian Kinzals ''will take care of this Frigate pretty fast we know ! Boom !
Close...it is because Germans were naughty some decades ago. After that naughty period they were restricted to frigate class max (with limited weaponry), so they´ve maxxed that class to its limits. Anyway, procurement was cancelled in favour of US Constellation-class frigate (still heavy frigate class) and frigate roles will be developed in similar frigate-destroyer level F126 project. a lot of "frigate" usage in this comment, i know :D
you cannot say Super Frigate at 10k to 12k tons displacement, in this case you need to raise the classification. it should upgrade it to "Cruiser" not super frigate.... it's like you have a 'Corvette" at 4,000 tons displacement then you called it super corvette instead of Frigate .. learn your navy ship classification by weight
Germany simply calls it a frigate. The reasons for it and whether they make sense or not might be debatable, but frigate is the official term. Oh, and by the by, the next type of ship after the frigate would be the destroyer, like the almoat 16k ton Zumwalts of the USN.
@@Schwarzenfels The designation "Destroyer" was a British Royal Navy development. Having noted that their new class of Dreadnoughts could be sunk by a small torpedo boat they developed a fast well armed ship, called the destroyer, that could escort the dreadnought and had the speed to intercept and cut of any torpedo boats detected. Today a destroyer is a ship capable of escorting a capital ships such as an aircraft carrier and having a full range or anti submarine and anti air defenses. A frigate is a more traditional classification of a secondary ship used to escort convoys or patrol independently. It would lack the speed of a destroyer and would likely be lacking in some area eg having only short range air defenses and be focused on submarine warfare. -In this case the Super frigate would seem to have a full range of capabilities such as long range air warfare and anti submarine. -I would guess its purpose is to protect sea traffic from Russian bombers, cruisers and submarines crossing the Atlantic as well as maybe around Africa and the Persian gulf. With the US pulling back from keeping the worlds oceans safe Europe needs to start protecting its commerce by itself.
@@williamzk9083 The F124 Sachsen and the Dutch De Zeven Provinciën-class frigates both have the same capabilities and both are designs from the 1990s, the Soviet Union was dead and Russia not really a threat at the time. Yes, they have limited anti sub capabilities, but they really aren't build for this role, and neither is the proposed F127 class. The 4000nmi range is neccessary to be able to support NATO operations worldwide and nothing special anymore, same with the speed, as AA support, they need to be able to keep up with task forces. The term super frigate is completely made up and, as far as I know, only used by the internet and certain not so reputable media outlets, basically clickbait. It's not WWI anymore, ships grew in size and capability.
Super Sonic Strike Tyrfing (Anti Ship capable) will be implemented via VLS or container aswell. But yeah 8 baseline NSM is pretty low.... german navy procurement tradition.
funny thing is i did hear about the F126 or Niedersachsen class . . . a future stealthy guided missile frigate of the Deutsche Marine yet to be build . . . the F126 is a 12,683 ton - 13,862 ton (loaded) stealth guided missile advanced warfare frigate, currently under development . . but never heard of the F127 with the same specifications as that of the F126 . . .
F126 is primarily for ASW mission, F127 is for air defense, we always have different frigate types for these 2 mission types, they replace F123 and F124... we also have the F125 for the useless mission type😢
The F127 is to have about the same number of VLS cells as the Arleigh Burke class, i.e. over 90 cells. One reason for the size of the F127 class frigate is that these ships, like the F125 and F126 class ships, no longer have permanent crews. Thanks to crew rotation, the ship can stay in the operational area for up to 2 years, only the crew is changed regularly.
Nothing is set in stone yet, but most insight point towards 64 VLS cells. More cells would not make much sense in the european environment and the planed weapons. So far it is not planned to adopt the "intensive use" concept from F125 and F126 for F127.
@@Chiggi0815 These are not only for the European environment. Previous German frigates run out of ammunition and fuel too quickly on deployment to the Persian Gulf or the coast of Africa. That, apart from cringeworthy armament of sea sparrow is why a bigger better AEGIS armed frigate is needed. The memo is that the U.S. is withdrawing from protecting the world’s waterways to ensure freedom and safety of navigation. If Germany wants free trade to continue and its benefits it will need to do more. The U.S. will be occupied in the pacific and its tax payers are exhausted. Warnings for years from both Obama and Trump.
@@williamzk9083 when was a german frigate in the persian gulf and when did anyone ran out of ammo on the coast of africa? Do you mean the deployment of Hessen to the Red Sea? Sher certainly never ran out of ammo. Indeed she never even used her VLS weapons - except for the failed attempt to shoot down the american drone. Beyond that she only used 2 RAMs, some 76mm ammo and the helicopter to intercept a USV. She ended her deployment because she was on deployment because she was on another mission for 6 month before that. Those ships have to return home once a year for inspection.
Ehm yeah no F 127 will AT MOST have 64 VLS cells plus nsm etc but Not 90 cells. Allthough original Design ideas might have gone in that direction its Overkill and way too expensive if Germany wants to build 6 units.
@@HansPeters1234 ich schreibe jetzt auf deutsch, da kann ich mich besser ausdrücken. Ja es gibt den Entwurf von TKMS mit 64 Zellen. Doch es gibt seitens der Bundeswehr noch keine Festlegung wie viele VLS Zellen es geben soll, daher ist der TKMS Entwurf auch noch nicht die endgültige Version, sondern nur ein Entwurf eines möglichen Herstellers. Zumal Damen, von denen die F126 stammt, noch keine eigenen Entwürfe vorgelegt hat. Auch ist man bisher noch nicht vom Ziel abgerückt, dass die F127 ungefähr die gleichen Fähigkeitsvorgaben haben soll wie die Arleigh-Burke Klasse, die ja 90 VLS Zellen hat. Dass das ganze kein Schnäppchen wird, egal ob mit 64 oder 90 Zellen, ist jetzt schon klar. Vielleicht wird es auch irgendwas dazwischen. Auch steht noch eine Kooperation mit Norwegen im Raum. Denn die müssen auch ihre Fregatten ersetzen.
It seems Stealth for large Warships is a bit overrated/not worth the Cost, the new US Navy Concepts etc. also go back to traditional Designs after Years of Experience with the Zumwalt.
HYDEF system is still a long way. No missile is available to intercept hypersonic missile. It looks weird that with this ship they try to defend against hypersonics rather than ballistics. Ballistics defense is actually available with an appropriate system. Beside ballistic also drone swarm defense is advisable and possible to pursue with appropriate system like CIWS high energy weapons etc.
The inclusion of high energy laser CIWS probably also allocated for handling such a threat.. Both the hypersonic missile and ballistic one.. Since PRC already operates ballistic anti ship missile.. Although the ballistic part probably more for range and speed booster for the final missile.. Propelled the ASM missile into hypersonic speed region..
The Russian Kinzhal has been reported downed by Patriots in Ukraine. It-and most hypersonic cruise missiles must “slow” down to around Mach 5 to detect and guide to their targets (my understanding is too much heat ( a plasma buildup) is produced at the high hypersonic speeds to allow for accurate targeting using guidance methods like radar/RF. Inertial guidance would work, which is essentially what ICBM RVs use. (Astro-Inertial guidance)
The F-124 class frigate featured in this video is also specialized for air defense. The German navy had a long-term plan. They built the F-123 class frigates for anti submarine warfare, the F-124 class for air defense and the F-125 class was originally supposed to be sort of specialized for attacking land targets. That didn't happen, which is a tragic and funny story. (x) Now they are starting that cycle again. The upcoming F-126 class frigates are supposed to be the new anti submarine specialists and replace the F-123, the F-127, which this video is about is supposed to be the new air defense frigate and there supposedly will be a F-128 class of frigates for general anti ship warfare, I heard. The reason why all those new German frigates are so big is that they apparently have a high level of automation to reduce crew size and make them cheaper to operate and give them more endurance, but also that they all are supposed to have a lot of additional living space to accommodate special forces or a large medical crew and be used for evacuation missions and the such. Germany has no plans to get a large troop transport-, landing- or helicopter carrier ship or something like that, so instead they want to split that job up in a decentralized manner and have a bunch of frigates be able to double as swimming hospitals and evacuate civilians and the such. (x) The original plan was to put a 155 mm artillery gun on the F-125 class, a naval version of the M270 MLRS missile launching system and have the ability to carry 2 Tiger attack helicopters, on top of being equipped with cruise missiles. Unfortunately all of that got scrapped. During the final stage of design and construction, the Somali pirate crisis started and so some extra bright brain in the German ministry of defense decided that the F-125 should better be specialized pirate hunting ships and basically all the weaponry was stripped, only leaving a regular 127 mm gun, a few anti ship missile launchers and a bunch of 27 mm machine guns. It basically is a huge frigate (about 8000 tons displacement) with the armament of a corvette. It doesn't even have any Vertical Launch Tubes. What makes the whole thing even funnier is that at the time it finally was built and commissioned, the Somali pirate crisis it was built for was already over. So now the German navy is sitting on 2 huge but mostly useless warships it doesn't know what to do with. They claim this ship class is still great because it has a super high level of automation and a unusual small crew for a ship that size and is cheap to run and can go on very long deployments very far away from home, but what is the point of that when it doesn't have the weapons a warship would need to do anything useful very far from home? They sent ships to the Indian and the Pacific ocean to participate in war games and to show solidarity with Pacific allies against China and they always send the old F-124 class ships instead of their great new "far away" ships.
Only in the UK the rest of us in continental Europe call it a frigate. It doesn't matter if it is this German frigate, the French Italian Horizon or the Dutch frigates. We all call it a heavy frigate for destroyer it would require more armament. Even your type 45 would be called a frigate here due to lack of armaments and heavy weapons.
@@TrangleC There are 4 F125 ships. Theoretically, ships in the F125 class could be retrofitted with up to 16 VLS cells. It doesn't make much sense, as the F125 class is likely to be taken out of service early. The F125 has one special feature that all other future classes will also have: it no longer has fixed crews. 8 crews are planned for the 4 ships, which can be deployed on any ship in the class at any time. This means that the ship can stay in the operational area for up to two years, only the crew is replaced regularly. This and the high level of automation is the reason why the new German frigate classes are all so large. The two-island principle also contributes to the size.
@@martindonat3249 The Lütjens-class (decommissioned 2003) was officially a destroyer. The German Navy simply calls this a frigate due to mission focus/capability, and perhaps because it's the direct replacement for the smaller F124. Tonnage and length just don't play as much of a role in terminology anymore these days.
The currently newest type of German frigate, the F-125 class, was originally supposed to be specialized for coastal attacks. For that the original plan was to put a 155 mm artillery gun on it, a naval version of the M270 MLRS missile launching system and have the ability to carry 2 Tiger attack helicopters, on top of being equipped with cruise missiles. Unfortunately all of that got scrapped. During the final stage of design and construction, the Somali pirate crisis started and so some extra bright brain in the German ministry of defense decided that the F-125 should better be specialized pirate hunting ships and basically all the weaponry was stripped, only leaving a regular 127 mm gun, a few anti ship missile launchers and a bunch of 27 mm machine guns. It basically is a huge frigate (about 8000 tons displacement) with the armament of a corvette. It doesn't even have any Vertical Launch Tubes. What makes the whole thing even funnier is that at the time it finally was built and commissioned, the Somali pirate crisis it was built for was already over. So now the German navy is sitting on 2 huge but mostly useless warships it doesn't know what to do with. They claim this ship class is still great because it has a super high level of automation and a unusual small crew for a ship that size and is cheap to run and can go on very long deployments very far away from home, but what is the point of that when it doesn't have the weapons a warship would need to do anything useful very far from home? They sent ships to the Indian and the Pacific ocean to participate in war games and to show solidarity with Pacific allies against China and they always send the old F-124 class ships instead of their great new "far away" ships.
@@TrangleC well, this is about the F127 and most of what you wrote about the F125 is nonsense. It always was designed for Stabilizing Ops. It is good at it and still needed for that. As it happens it would be great if Russia tries to do to NATO in the baltic sea what Ukraine is doing to Russia in the black sea
@@Chiggi0815 I have been reading articles about that ship 30 years ago. There also are pictures from when they put the turret of a Panzerhaubitze 2000 on a frigate for testing reasons. If it is so good, then why do they send the F-124 on every assignment?
Dude you clearly don't understand the metric system, there's no way a Corvette weighs 0.5-1.5 million tons. Yes they play fast and loose with Naval nomilaclature these days, but the tonnage has maybe increased by a only few thousand tons to double the original ship type weights. This has been done since the late 1970's because politicians are idiots and defence planners needed a way to get around them without projects being blocked by Beaurocrats. A prime example of this was the Invincible light carrier of the Royal Navy, on paper it is called a "Through Deck Cruiser" but weighed in excess of 25,000 tons, ever since, planners have done the same dance.
Not tonnage but capability is the name giver in the 21st century. Welcome to the world that actually lives in the present not in the past and especially not with the wrong tonnage of yesteryear.
@@dc-4ever201 Ship classifications have always changed or were applied differently in different navies. Originally, in the sailing ship era, frigates were fast battleships that were supposed to operate alone and far away from friendly harbors and do jobs the big, heavy, expensive and cumbersome ships of the line were not suited for. You could argue that according to that definition the German battleships of WW2, even the Bismarck class were actually frigates. Same with destroyers. They started out as tiny ships hardly larger than the motor torpedo boats they were supposed to "destroy". That makes it kind of funny that nowadays people think a destroyer needs to be big and heavy and that frigates need to be smaller than destroyers.
@@TrangleC They are blurring the lines these days, it's all about specialisation, Frigates are either general purpose or ASW spec and Destroyers are again General purpose like the Arleigh Burke or AAW like the Royal Navy Type 45. Sometimes you'll see Corvettes armed to the teeth but their capability range is limited as they can't carry radar/sonar with a powerful enough range. Then you see things like the Royal Navy River Class Offshore Patrol boats that outweigh a Corvette but have only a 30mm deck gun, mini guns, gpmg's and some manpads. It's all a bit weird tbh.
@@dc-4ever201 Yes, but those definitions are in the end just arbitrary decisions the US Navy made. You can't expect every other navy to follow the same rules, not even within NATO. Destroyers used to be specialized escort vessels. All the way up until the end of WW2, you wouldn't send out a lone destroyer as a general purpose warship. That was what cruisers were there for back then, including in the US Navy. When exactly and why US Navy destroyers suddenly became general purpose "tip of the spear" type warships while at the same time cruisers were demoted to only do escort duty in carrier groups, I don't know, but it definitely was a big change and shift, compared to how things were in WW2 and before that. I'm pretty sure if you would time travel a US Navy sailor or a admiral from WW2 to today, would show him a Arleigh Burke class ship, tell him what role it plays and what it does and then ask him what he would call that, he would call it a cruiser and he would ask you why the US Navy doesn't have any destroyers anymore. My point being ultimately the same as yours, that it is all a weird, confusing, arbitrary mess. Where we differ is that you, despite acknowledging that, still seem to consider the way things are right now in the US Navy to somehow be the natural and logical way of looking at it, even though it is new and doesn't adhere to how it was during WW2. The Germans have their own reasons for classifying everything as a frigate, the same way the Japanese call their aircraft carrier / sea control ship a destroyer or the Soviets called their aircraft carriers cruisers. (Because carriers were not allowed to pass through certain sea lanes.) One thing is for sure, saying that "this frigate is too big and should be called a destroyer" never really made sense.
😢😅 being a BB61 GM,FC. I MARVEL AT THE TOTAL IGNORANCE, folks who have NO CLUE! What a light cruiser, heavy cruiser, battle cruiser even are? Never seen atomic rocket cruiser, or rocket cruiser? These were the Soviet Kirov and Slava classes? There really needs to be informative videos to ENLIGHTEN the Masses!
I really appreciate anything that the Germans build, but at 12,000 tonnes, the American 18,000 tonne Zumwalt class destroyer is larger than this, not counting the American 22,000 - 28,000 tonne frigates which are slowly being decommissioned.
It's part of stealth to reflect incident radar upwards and away. Although it might be impossible to totally hide this ship it will reduce the signal to noise ratio such that chaff rockets, seductive decoys and jamming will have an effect.
10K to 12K tons is more like a Light Cruiser than a Frigate.
Same thing actually. Frigates were the original "cruising" warships of the fleet in the age of sail. That role was taken over by (light) (armored) cruisers in the age of steam till the end of WW2. Ever since then the term "cruiser died out more and more and Frigates started to take over the cruising role again.
If 'Sachsen' class is too difficult, you can say 'Saxon' class.
A cruiser by tonnes
A frigate by weaponry and firepower. . .
Despite the F127s being called frigates (mainly for political reasons), those ships will be the most heavily armed guided missile warships of any western european navy so far. Beating out the british Type 45s (48 cell VLS, 2003), french/italian Horizons (48 cell VLS, 2002) and danish Iver Huitfeldts (56 cell VLS, 2008, currently the most heavily armed western european warship if equipped with the AAW module). Or as we would say in german „n richtig dickes Ding“.
It is a destroyer or cruiser tonnage not a frigate tonnage.
When I see newly designed ships,
I wondered why NSM is not designed for VLS.
In this sense, you could install annother row of VLS batteries (+ 2 Mk41 modules)
in the middle of this ship design.
This would double the possible number of NSMs carried
or create space for 8 more long-range missiles or 32 more ESSM or IRIS-T SLX missiles.
Ready in 2033? Jeeezzz.... that's 10 years time
Excellent example of Deutsche technology. Congratulations
It's a frigate becasue Destroyer is too offensive a term for the Germans.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣German Economy is Tanking fast . Ursula Fon . Has Destroyed Europa ! the Russian Zircons ''and the Bastion and the Russian Kinzals ''will take care of this Frigate pretty fast we know ! Boom !
😂😂😂😂
@@ivanronin8209 How is Moskwa doing business as an open fish tank?
Close...it is because Germans were naughty some decades ago.
After that naughty period they were restricted to frigate class max (with limited weaponry), so they´ve maxxed that class to its limits.
Anyway, procurement was cancelled in favour of US Constellation-class frigate (still heavy frigate class) and frigate roles will be developed in similar frigate-destroyer level F126 project.
a lot of "frigate" usage in this comment, i know :D
They could have called it a cruiser.
at that size, it should be able to carry more than 64 vls cells!
by german standarts 64 cells is very good tbh
@@bigKARTOFFEL- they need to step up their game, look at the arleigh burke's, sejong the great class and kongo class ddg's!
The big S frigate is coming out to play soon
you cannot say Super Frigate at 10k to 12k tons displacement, in this case you need to raise the classification. it should upgrade it to "Cruiser" not super frigate.... it's like you have a 'Corvette" at 4,000 tons displacement then you called it super corvette instead of Frigate .. learn your navy ship classification by weight
Learn to think in 21st century terms. Not tonnage but capability decides what a vessel is.
Capability decides it nowadays not the tonnage destroyers corvetes cruisers they have extremely different capabilities
Germany simply calls it a frigate. The reasons for it and whether they make sense or not might be debatable, but frigate is the official term.
Oh, and by the by, the next type of ship after the frigate would be the destroyer, like the almoat 16k ton Zumwalts of the USN.
@@Schwarzenfels The designation "Destroyer" was a British Royal Navy development. Having noted that their new class of Dreadnoughts could be sunk by a small torpedo boat they developed a fast well armed ship, called the destroyer, that could escort the dreadnought and had the speed to intercept and cut of any torpedo boats detected. Today a destroyer is a ship capable of escorting a capital ships such as an aircraft carrier and having a full range or anti submarine and anti air defenses.
A frigate is a more traditional classification of a secondary ship used to escort convoys or patrol independently. It would lack the speed of a destroyer and would likely be lacking in some area eg having only short range air defenses and be focused on submarine warfare.
-In this case the Super frigate would seem to have a full range of capabilities such as long range air warfare and anti submarine.
-I would guess its purpose is to protect sea traffic from Russian bombers, cruisers and submarines crossing the Atlantic as well as maybe around Africa and the Persian gulf.
With the US pulling back from keeping the worlds oceans safe Europe needs to start protecting its commerce by itself.
@@williamzk9083 The F124 Sachsen and the Dutch De Zeven Provinciën-class frigates both have the same capabilities and both are designs from the 1990s, the Soviet Union was dead and Russia not really a threat at the time. Yes, they have limited anti sub capabilities, but they really aren't build for this role, and neither is the proposed F127 class.
The 4000nmi range is neccessary to be able to support NATO operations worldwide and nothing special anymore, same with the speed, as AA support, they need to be able to keep up with task forces.
The term super frigate is completely made up and, as far as I know, only used by the internet and certain not so reputable media outlets, basically clickbait.
It's not WWI anymore, ships grew in size and capability.
Realy I like this powerful fregates
Kongsberg will have to build new factories if they are going to meet the demand for NSM missiles.
@@haakonsteinsvaag I suspect Raytheon will have an independent production line in the United States
Maybe the Chinese type 055 is larger than this one on displacement, and armament.
8 naval strike missiles are way to few
Super Sonic Strike Tyrfing (Anti Ship capable) will be implemented via VLS or container aswell. But yeah 8 baseline NSM is pretty low.... german navy procurement tradition.
Isn't frigates supposed to be ASW. Destroyers anti-aircraft war. So why so big. Is it a ship for everything???
Frigate..bring on the destroyer..👍💯
If this is real, very impressive
It is real, many recent articles about it online.
The exact same design of FDI frigate from naval group
funny thing is i did hear about the F126 or Niedersachsen class . . . a future stealthy guided missile frigate of the Deutsche Marine yet to be build . . . the F126 is a 12,683 ton - 13,862 ton (loaded) stealth guided missile advanced warfare frigate, currently under development . . but never heard of the F127 with the same specifications as that of the F126 . . .
F126 is primarily for ASW mission, F127 is for air defense, we always have different frigate types for these 2 mission types, they replace F123 and F124... we also have the F125 for the useless mission type😢
The F127 is to have about the same number of VLS cells as the Arleigh Burke class, i.e. over 90 cells. One reason for the size of the F127 class frigate is that these ships, like the F125 and F126 class ships, no longer have permanent crews. Thanks to crew rotation, the ship can stay in the operational area for up to 2 years, only the crew is changed regularly.
Nothing is set in stone yet, but most insight point towards 64 VLS cells. More cells would not make much sense in the european environment and the planed weapons.
So far it is not planned to adopt the "intensive use" concept from F125 and F126 for F127.
@@Chiggi0815 These are not only for the European environment. Previous German frigates run out of ammunition and fuel too quickly on deployment to the Persian Gulf or the coast of Africa. That, apart from cringeworthy armament of sea sparrow is why a bigger better AEGIS armed frigate is needed. The memo is that the U.S. is withdrawing from protecting the world’s waterways to ensure freedom and safety of navigation. If Germany wants free trade to continue and its benefits it will need to do more. The U.S. will be occupied in the pacific and its tax payers are exhausted. Warnings for years from both Obama and Trump.
@@williamzk9083 when was a german frigate in the persian gulf and when did anyone ran out of ammo on the coast of africa? Do you mean the deployment of Hessen to the Red Sea? Sher certainly never ran out of ammo. Indeed she never even used her VLS weapons - except for the failed attempt to shoot down the american drone.
Beyond that she only used 2 RAMs, some 76mm ammo and the helicopter to intercept a USV.
She ended her deployment because she was on deployment because she was on another mission for 6 month before that. Those ships have to return home once a year for inspection.
Ehm yeah no F 127 will AT MOST have 64 VLS cells plus nsm etc but Not 90 cells. Allthough original Design ideas might have gone in that direction its Overkill and way too expensive if Germany wants to build 6 units.
@@HansPeters1234 ich schreibe jetzt auf deutsch, da kann ich mich besser ausdrücken. Ja es gibt den Entwurf von TKMS mit 64 Zellen. Doch es gibt seitens der Bundeswehr noch keine Festlegung wie viele VLS Zellen es geben soll, daher ist der TKMS Entwurf auch noch nicht die endgültige Version, sondern nur ein Entwurf eines möglichen Herstellers. Zumal Damen, von denen die F126 stammt, noch keine eigenen Entwürfe vorgelegt hat. Auch ist man bisher noch nicht vom Ziel abgerückt, dass die F127 ungefähr die gleichen Fähigkeitsvorgaben haben soll wie die Arleigh-Burke Klasse, die ja 90 VLS Zellen hat. Dass das ganze kein Schnäppchen wird, egal ob mit 64 oder 90 Zellen, ist jetzt schon klar. Vielleicht wird es auch irgendwas dazwischen. Auch steht noch eine Kooperation mit Norwegen im Raum. Denn die müssen auch ihre Fregatten ersetzen.
If it's destroyer-sized, then why is it a frigate? Modern warship classification makes no sense.
Yes, with the sensor suite and planned weaponry, it's a DDG.
I don't understand why the replenishment station is exposed even though it has a stealth shape.
It seems Stealth for large Warships is a bit overrated/not worth the Cost, the new US Navy Concepts etc. also go back to traditional Designs after Years of Experience with the Zumwalt.
@@gOtze1337 I thought it was a waste even though the other parts were perfect. By the way, the Japanese Mogami type pops up from the deck.
There is no standard criteria for what defines a Corvette, Frigate, Destroyer, or Cruiser they are used interchangeably in different navies.
By the time they are build it’s another 5 years later and another 3 years to put into service
It’s just a name. Germany, the Netherlands never classify their ships as destroyer.
Why didn't they call it a cruiser? it's that kind of tonnage!
HYDEF system is still a long way. No missile is available to intercept hypersonic missile. It looks weird that with this ship they try to defend against hypersonics rather than ballistics. Ballistics defense is actually available with an appropriate system. Beside ballistic also drone swarm defense is advisable and possible to pursue with appropriate system like CIWS high energy weapons etc.
The inclusion of high energy laser CIWS probably also allocated for handling such a threat..
Both the hypersonic missile and ballistic one..
Since PRC already operates ballistic anti ship missile..
Although the ballistic part probably more for range and speed booster for the final missile..
Propelled the ASM missile into hypersonic speed region..
The Russian Kinzhal has been reported downed by Patriots in Ukraine.
It-and most hypersonic cruise missiles must “slow” down to around Mach 5 to detect and guide to their targets (my understanding is too much heat ( a plasma buildup) is produced at the high hypersonic speeds to allow for accurate targeting using guidance methods like radar/RF.
Inertial guidance would work, which is essentially what ICBM RVs use. (Astro-Inertial guidance)
So it is a destroyer/ cruiser not a frigate. Anti air warfare makes it a destroyer
Germany would call everything a Frigate , Destroyer sounds to agresive 🤣 if they ever build an Aircraftcarrier they would call it a Aircraftfrigate 🤣
The F-124 class frigate featured in this video is also specialized for air defense.
The German navy had a long-term plan. They built the F-123 class frigates for anti submarine warfare, the F-124 class for air defense and the F-125 class was originally supposed to be sort of specialized for attacking land targets.
That didn't happen, which is a tragic and funny story. (x)
Now they are starting that cycle again. The upcoming F-126 class frigates are supposed to be the new anti submarine specialists and replace the F-123, the F-127, which this video is about is supposed to be the new air defense frigate and there supposedly will be a F-128 class of frigates for general anti ship warfare, I heard.
The reason why all those new German frigates are so big is that they apparently have a high level of automation to reduce crew size and make them cheaper to operate and give them more endurance, but also that they all are supposed to have a lot of additional living space to accommodate special forces or a large medical crew and be used for evacuation missions and the such.
Germany has no plans to get a large troop transport-, landing- or helicopter carrier ship or something like that, so instead they want to split that job up in a decentralized manner and have a bunch of frigates be able to double as swimming hospitals and evacuate civilians and the such.
(x)
The original plan was to put a 155 mm artillery gun on the F-125 class, a naval version of the M270 MLRS missile launching system and have the ability to carry 2 Tiger attack helicopters, on top of being equipped with cruise missiles.
Unfortunately all of that got scrapped. During the final stage of design and construction, the Somali pirate crisis started and so some extra bright brain in the German ministry of defense decided that the F-125 should better be specialized pirate hunting ships and basically all the weaponry was stripped, only leaving a regular 127 mm gun, a few anti ship missile launchers and a bunch of 27 mm machine guns.
It basically is a huge frigate (about 8000 tons displacement) with the armament of a corvette.
It doesn't even have any Vertical Launch Tubes.
What makes the whole thing even funnier is that at the time it finally was built and commissioned, the Somali pirate crisis it was built for was already over. So now the German navy is sitting on 2 huge but mostly useless warships it doesn't know what to do with.
They claim this ship class is still great because it has a super high level of automation and a unusual small crew for a ship that size and is cheap to run and can go on very long deployments very far away from home, but what is the point of that when it doesn't have the weapons a warship would need to do anything useful very far from home?
They sent ships to the Indian and the Pacific ocean to participate in war games and to show solidarity with Pacific allies against China and they always send the old F-124 class ships instead of their great new "far away" ships.
Only in the UK the rest of us in continental Europe call it a frigate. It doesn't matter if it is this German frigate, the French Italian Horizon or the Dutch frigates. We all call it a heavy frigate for destroyer it would require more armament. Even your type 45 would be called a frigate here due to lack of armaments and heavy weapons.
@@TrangleC There are 4 F125 ships. Theoretically, ships in the F125 class could be retrofitted with up to 16 VLS cells. It doesn't make much sense, as the F125 class is likely to be taken out of service early. The F125 has one special feature that all other future classes will also have: it no longer has fixed crews. 8 crews are planned for the 4 ships, which can be deployed on any ship in the class at any time. This means that the ship can stay in the operational area for up to two years, only the crew is replaced regularly. This and the high level of automation is the reason why the new German frigate classes are all so large. The two-island principle also contributes to the size.
@@martindonat3249 The Lütjens-class (decommissioned 2003) was officially a destroyer. The German Navy simply calls this a frigate due to mission focus/capability, and perhaps because it's the direct replacement for the smaller F124. Tonnage and length just don't play as much of a role in terminology anymore these days.
Larger than a Ticonderoga class Cruiser, with half of the VLS cells? And called a frigate? Seems fishy
Nothing fishy just Germans being Germans ...
What is next? Aircraft carrying frigate?
Nothing wrong here. The idea that Frigates are small ships only held up for a short time. The US even had nuclear powered frigates.
The currently newest type of German frigate, the F-125 class, was originally supposed to be specialized for coastal attacks. For that the original plan was to put a 155 mm artillery gun on it, a naval version of the M270 MLRS missile launching system and have the ability to carry 2 Tiger attack helicopters, on top of being equipped with cruise missiles.
Unfortunately all of that got scrapped. During the final stage of design and construction, the Somali pirate crisis started and so some extra bright brain in the German ministry of defense decided that the F-125 should better be specialized pirate hunting ships and basically all the weaponry was stripped, only leaving a regular 127 mm gun, a few anti ship missile launchers and a bunch of 27 mm machine guns.
It basically is a huge frigate (about 8000 tons displacement) with the armament of a corvette.
It doesn't even have any Vertical Launch Tubes.
What makes the whole thing even funnier is that at the time it finally was built and commissioned, the Somali pirate crisis it was built for was already over. So now the German navy is sitting on 2 huge but mostly useless warships it doesn't know what to do with.
They claim this ship class is still great because it has a super high level of automation and a unusual small crew for a ship that size and is cheap to run and can go on very long deployments very far away from home, but what is the point of that when it doesn't have the weapons a warship would need to do anything useful very far from home?
They sent ships to the Indian and the Pacific ocean to participate in war games and to show solidarity with Pacific allies against China and they always send the old F-124 class ships instead of their great new "far away" ships.
It is only a matter of time before Frigates, cruisers and destroyers start using drones.
@@TrangleC well, this is about the F127 and most of what you wrote about the F125 is nonsense. It always was designed for Stabilizing Ops. It is good at it and still needed for that.
As it happens it would be great if Russia tries to do to NATO in the baltic sea what Ukraine is doing to Russia in the black sea
@@Chiggi0815 I have been reading articles about that ship 30 years ago.
There also are pictures from when they put the turret of a Panzerhaubitze 2000 on a frigate for testing reasons.
If it is so good, then why do they send the F-124 on every assignment?
Destroyer pretends to be frigate😁
Why not just call it a destroyer?
Is it because it doesn't have the firepower of a destroyer?
Destroyer sounds to aggressive.
@@Freedom9X
Right.
It's too wimpy to be called a destroyer.
@@RedRider1600 That`s not what I mean, military is very unpopular in Germany. So calling it a Frigate sounds nicer then calling it a destroyer.
@@Freedom9X
Then they should just call it a fishing boat, or a cruiseliner.
@@RedRider1600 If you look at the F125, they came pretty close to this.
The warship get bigger and bigger before Italy had introduce 6000 tonnes DWl that they categorized as OPV and Now German . How big Destroyer next phas
Carrier CV >10,000,000kg - Up
Battle Cruiser BC 5,000,000 - 12,000,000kg (Faster in Speed)
Cruiser CC 5,000,000 - 12,000,000kg
Destroyer DD 3,000,000 - 6,000,000kg
Frigate FF 1,500,000-4,000,000kg
Corvette V 500,000-1,500,000kg
Dude you clearly don't understand the metric system, there's no way a Corvette weighs 0.5-1.5 million tons. Yes they play fast and loose with Naval nomilaclature these days, but the tonnage has maybe increased by a only few thousand tons to double the original ship type weights. This has been done since the late 1970's because politicians are idiots and defence planners needed a way to get around them without projects being blocked by Beaurocrats. A prime example of this was the Invincible light carrier of the Royal Navy, on paper it is called a "Through Deck Cruiser" but weighed in excess of 25,000 tons, ever since, planners have done the same dance.
Not tonnage but capability is the name giver in the 21st century. Welcome to the world that actually lives in the present not in the past and especially not with the wrong tonnage of yesteryear.
@@dc-4ever201 Ship classifications have always changed or were applied differently in different navies.
Originally, in the sailing ship era, frigates were fast battleships that were supposed to operate alone and far away from friendly harbors and do jobs the big, heavy, expensive and cumbersome ships of the line were not suited for.
You could argue that according to that definition the German battleships of WW2, even the Bismarck class were actually frigates.
Same with destroyers. They started out as tiny ships hardly larger than the motor torpedo boats they were supposed to "destroy".
That makes it kind of funny that nowadays people think a destroyer needs to be big and heavy and that frigates need to be smaller than destroyers.
@@TrangleC They are blurring the lines these days, it's all about specialisation, Frigates are either general purpose or ASW spec and Destroyers are again General purpose like the Arleigh Burke or AAW like the Royal Navy Type 45. Sometimes you'll see Corvettes armed to the teeth but their capability range is limited as they can't carry radar/sonar with a powerful enough range. Then you see things like the Royal Navy River Class Offshore Patrol boats that outweigh a Corvette but have only a 30mm deck gun, mini guns, gpmg's and some manpads. It's all a bit weird tbh.
@@dc-4ever201 Yes, but those definitions are in the end just arbitrary decisions the US Navy made. You can't expect every other navy to follow the same rules, not even within NATO.
Destroyers used to be specialized escort vessels. All the way up until the end of WW2, you wouldn't send out a lone destroyer as a general purpose warship. That was what cruisers were there for back then, including in the US Navy.
When exactly and why US Navy destroyers suddenly became general purpose "tip of the spear" type warships while at the same time cruisers were demoted to only do escort duty in carrier groups, I don't know, but it definitely was a big change and shift, compared to how things were in WW2 and before that.
I'm pretty sure if you would time travel a US Navy sailor or a admiral from WW2 to today, would show him a Arleigh Burke class ship, tell him what role it plays and what it does and then ask him what he would call that, he would call it a cruiser and he would ask you why the US Navy doesn't have any destroyers anymore.
My point being ultimately the same as yours, that it is all a weird, confusing, arbitrary mess.
Where we differ is that you, despite acknowledging that, still seem to consider the way things are right now in the US Navy to somehow be the natural and logical way of looking at it, even though it is new and doesn't adhere to how it was during WW2.
The Germans have their own reasons for classifying everything as a frigate, the same way the Japanese call their aircraft carrier / sea control ship a destroyer or the Soviets called their aircraft carriers cruisers. (Because carriers were not allowed to pass through certain sea lanes.)
One thing is for sure, saying that "this frigate is too big and should be called a destroyer" never really made sense.
All the background noise and stupid sounds makes this very annoying to try and watch! Bye bye
Is it Made In China?
TKMS and NVL, both german.
😢😅 being a BB61 GM,FC. I MARVEL AT THE TOTAL IGNORANCE, folks who have NO CLUE! What a light cruiser, heavy cruiser, battle cruiser even are? Never seen atomic rocket cruiser, or rocket cruiser? These were the Soviet Kirov and Slava classes? There really needs to be informative videos to ENLIGHTEN the Masses!
4000 miles is not good
Wrong is cruiser
Poor choice for a narrator. His pronunciation is so bad that I could not understand most of his words.
I really appreciate anything that the Germans build, but at 12,000 tonnes, the American 18,000 tonne Zumwalt class destroyer is larger than this, not counting the American 22,000 - 28,000 tonne frigates which are slowly being decommissioned.
Which American frigates have 22,000-28,000 tons? And the Zumwalt has 15,656 tons (Wikipedia)
@@oli-barelin that guy must be high lol
I don't like the "plow bow".
It's part of stealth to reflect incident radar upwards and away. Although it might be impossible to totally hide this ship it will reduce the signal to noise ratio such that chaff rockets, seductive decoys and jamming will have an effect.
😂😂😂😂😂........ Germany. !!
How will they pay for these? German economy is going down the toilet and will never recover..