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Dude I know. It’s the same cards every time. Oh gee thanks another Jace. At the end of the day it’s all such a corp decision that it’s obvious at this point. No one, even newer players, would want or need these cards, and the art is pretty lame as well.
@@bobross8585or maybe just not a collection of 4 10 cent cards plus a single $15-$20 staple for $50 or a bunch of basics for $70. Would be much happier with sets of 5 cards each worth $3-$10 for reasonable price points, taking into consideration that wizards does have to pay for newly commissioned art.
I will say I’m one of those people who saw black market and autofilled connections in my brain. Completely forgot about that card cuz I don’t run it at all.
I think cards get the most unreadable when the words are part of the art, but I do appreciate that the hardboiled thrillers drop at least used a preset font, making it significantly more readable at a glance than many other card treatments.
Though not quite a catastrophe for me, it bears mentioning that as a new player this is how I am learning about cards like Circular Logic; as a misprint.
It's wild to me that the textless Cryptic Command - which I thought was pretty universally recognized as a mistake for a game piece - looks downright tame next to the layout and visual design for some of these drops. Pageantry is definitely the primary or only goal here
I feel you on the "secret lair cards are bad for gameplay" bit. I haven't bought a single secret liar personally, but I have been an MTG fan for a long time. As an artist myself, I respect all of the secret lair artworks, and some of them are truly just beyond incredible. I enjoy the ones that people seem to dislike, such as the works from Matt Jukes, the 'anime' ones (that a lot of people are mixed on) like the works of Yoji Shinkawa, Tsubonari, Riyou Kamei, and JungShan, and then the ones that are a bit more out there, like works from Dani Pendergast, Micha Huigen, Mark Riddick, Lauren YS, or Ayako Ishiguro, and even the more naturalistic painterly stuff from Frank Frazetta or Dan Frazier. All of that said... a lot of them I'd rather just have a poster of or put them in a frame and not try to jam them in an actual match of MTG. I respect what Wizards is trying to do to get more attention for artists and have super cool cards and let the artists just do their own thing, but I feel like a lot of them just don't work as Magic the Gathering cards for being played.
It makes you wonder how the process of designing how the card will look like is for SLs. Some of them have full art with actual textbox and some... have... stuff vaguely reminding text on them. Why the legibility is so wildly different? Also art being subjective and all that shtick but effort to make the artwork on some of them seems extremally low compared to others. And lastly no matter how good an artwork is, no matter how much effort was put into it, it still may not be suitable for a card that may be used in a game. Lets not try to squeeze those onto cards at any cost.
For special arts things like the beauty of the beasts is the way to go. Pretty and unique art that is also formated like a normal magic card and is easy to read.
Heck, if you wanted a simple improvement trade out that Scourge of Valkas for Terror of the Peaks; both fill a similar role but I don't think anyone asks which is better.
They do APAC promos for that every year and you can get a sarkhan and dragonlord's servant by going to your LGS across the next week and playing in standard events
It would also be easier to stomach a high price tag for a middling price group of cards if they were some kind of coherent theme. I wouldn't mind (for example) Obeka being a $0.25 card in a $30 secret lair if the other cards were ones that you would play in an Obeka commander deck, especially with them all decorated in the same theme. It just doesn't make sense pairing her with Jace, Wielder of Self-Millsteries and Dire Undercurrents - not to mention Reconnaissance - instead of cards synergistic to her like Sundial of the Infinite and Final Fortune - even with spots for cheap cards like Mulldrifter and Alchemist's Gambit - that you would intentionally put in the same deck as her. Considering how the only consistent draw of Secret Lairs is the cool-looking styles, there just aren't very many secret lair sets that you would - or even can - all play in the same deck in any format, even a casual 100 card singleton, so that those styles can give your deck a unique feel on the table.
Absolutely! Some bespoke Secret Lairs based around a given commander or deck archetype would really help pull some of the less coherent art style ones together.
That’s why I really liked the ones they did with Nekusar last year. Every card in that set was at least usable in a Nekusar build. Was still eligible and made sense as a collective product
I like the way they handle the rules text with the cereal box style art where one side is the "rule" side and the other the "art" side. It makes it a lot easier than when the text is messily crammed into the art
It was a nice idea but then I noticed that the mana cost is only printed on the art side, and not the rules side. So you'll have to remember the mana cost or the rules text, or spend time flipping the card in its sleeve to check one or the other side.
05:50 not to mention that you can't recognize what the card is by looks alone, since the mana cost is hidden below the artwork and the card doesn't have a colored border or any color in general.
I feel really bad that the fomo strategy worked on me. Most of what I got was not worth what I paid. I was just shocked that the Cats and Dogs deck sold out immediately but this one is still going on after two days. This is artificial scarcity at its finest, and I’m ashamed that it worked on me. I’m so sorry for contributing to this problem. Buy singles, support your LGS, and don’t feel pressured to buy anything like this secret lair drop.
I don't blame magic has always been financially predatory with their products and the limited edition FOMO strategy is a tried and true business strategy. At least you didn't fight other people over a pink Stanley cup
I’m yet to regret missing a secret lair. The ones I enjoyed the most so far were the pixel basic lands and the Dan Frazier retro frame rocks, but even these had the best of the bunch reserved for in person events.
I've purchased exactly two - the Bob Ross one and the most recent Doctor Who one, because hey, Doctor Who and mechanically unique cards. This entire drop just makes me sad. I remember seeing older Secret Lairs with Craterhoof Behemoth or Consecrated Sphinx, or Lairs with basic lands that had *ten* cards rather than five. Ah well, gotta pay for the Hasbro board's bonuses somehow, I guess...
It seems to me, an added value blizzards could toss in, would be for double sided cards, a token card that would work in the deck. ESPECIALLY for foil cards, having non foil token to represent it, would make life easier for someone playing in official events.
At a Legacy weekly, I saw a somewhat newer player use Grief, see the cereal version of Ulamog, Ceaseless hunger in their opponent's hand, stare at the Reanimate in their hand, and proceed to take something else because they assumed that version of Ulamog had the shuffle clause of the old one. It might not have been correct to reanimate the Ulamog because of the deck they were playing against (Green 12 post) being easily able to search out Karakas but it still serves as an example of how the awful formatting can screw people over.
Yeah they literally already did the cereal-style art... why would they retread old ground like that? Feels really uninspired and lazy (as a direction decision from management, not to trash talk the hard work that the artists are doing).
@@antonioarrendol2655I suspect these are just unreleased cards they commissioned from the first set so they could be on schedule for future secret lair releases
@@rootfish2671 That... would be a stroke of evil business genius... if you only think about it as far as an evil busimessman would think about it, which is, "does this save us money?" And not, you know, "is this going to make us look silly?"
A consideration for the Cereal lair: I think there's a good change that Sakashima is going to be reprinted in Thunder Junction somewhere. I think Partner has a strong possibility of showing up as at least a subtheme in the set, and Sakashima is kind of an outlaw character. So I expect the "value" of this lair to very quickly evaporate when Sakashima becomes a $10 card.
@@animesfreakify Maybe, but you have to admit that Wizards has a proven track record of printing a low-supply card into a secret lair and then immediately printing it into a widely available mainline release. Being the highest value card in the entire drop it seems a little sus, no? If Sakashima is a character in the set, then perhaps the main set will include a new version and one of the commander decks will have the reprint.
@@StarkMaximum The theme of the set is rascals and scalawags from around the multiverse showing up for a showdown. So I don't think culture or origin are exclusionary factors for any character. But even so, it could be in a commander deck, too, or the List possibly.
It does not well for magic cards as a successful franchise. All of these mistakes scream the massive layoffs are negatively affecting the quality of their products and Hasbro is just chasing short term earnings until they end magic as a franchise completely to appease the share holders
For me it's the departure from print to demand in favor of the fomo model. I'm done with SLs if I can't even buy them after taking time to consider the purchase - and I say that as someone who bought several last year. Sorry, but if it's first come, bot served, I'm left with scalpers and proxies to get SL cards I want. And guess what? WotC printed proxies for their 30th anniversary! So guess which one I'm choosing?
@@Nanook128 Six months to three months is virtually indistinguishable. If they were promising like, 1 to 2 week turnaround that would be a very different story, and even THEN it still wouldn't excuse changing to the FOMO model in a lot of peoples' eyes.
That Circular Logic is _clearly_ a callback to Portal style counter spells, like Mystic Denial. They just forgot to print the extra rules text: "Play Circular Logic only in response to another player playing a spell".
I agree with the assessments of all these lairs completely. They are really not worth the cost. That said...I am still dangerously close to getting the Beauty of the Beasts one because I do play 4 out of 5 od those card and I find the art so gorgeous! While still looking like magic cards! No illegible frame, no treatment that makes it look like a poster or a cereal box or anything except a magic card. That's what you usually gets my attention the most. Cards I love in beautiful new art on a good old simple magic card frame.
I bought it, for the exact reasons you mentioned. Never bought a secret lair before. I have a home for all five cards, the art is fantastic, and I hope it reinforces that we want legible game pieces at the end of the day. The rest of the lairs are dreadful
The business model for secret lairs is so predatory and fucked up for so many reasons. You're being sold a fomo that will be ancient history by the time you actually receive it. With how fast Wotc turns these out, I highly doubt there are any test prints done before hand. You're being sold an idea of a card that hasn't even been printed yet. And by the time you do receive it, it's way too late to complain about any quality issues with foils, printing, or card stock. From my own personally experience, the quality for secret lairs varies dramatically and you'll never really know how the cards will turn out until your receive them. And if they're shitty pringles or something, who cares? 30 more secret lairs have dropped since you placed your order so who knows how these new ones will turn out? They're manufactured collector's items with barely any quality control and rarely any substantial value long term. All secret lairs do is stuff the secondary market with overpriced collectable skins. I wish they were more like bundles that gave you a set of cards themed around something. Like the commander collections?! That even came with their own unique art and were sold in stores?! Secret lairs are just shittier commander collections without any of the practicality.
ngl, I got really excited for Hard boiled Thrillers as I use like 4 of the 5 in active commader decks and I love the art, all the other drops however were easy passes
Prof I'm gonna be honest, I'm so disconnected from what Wizards is up to these days and so utterly fatigued by the constant barrage of Secret Lairs that I didn't even know this SuperDrop existed. Now I'm just sitting here laughing.
The prof's glorious coiffed hair compared with the clips he's chosen as heralds of secret lairs says a lot about the evolution of this problem, especially for those of us who remember the reasons why his hair was sort at that time.
I bought the just add milk set. I needed adrix and nev and sakashima anyway and I enjoy the art, I do agree the double sided thing will be the most annoying thing about them though
Sakashima is a 50 CAD in Canada and I dig the art. So that's why I got it and Twincasters is just extra. I got the black market/dire undercurrents/reconnaissance one but unfoil. Secret lair foils become hella curled when they get shipped up north.
Personally, I like the cereal box art. I think the front side makes it pretty clear what the card is, and while I agree on the annoyance of having the pertinent text (effects, power, toughness, etc) be on the back... I'd also say that the cards in that set are fairly well known selections that only fairly new, inexperienced, or lapsed fans won't be aware of. Also, I generally like cards that try to be different than just your standard "MTG template" art style. More and more, I've found myself preferring the borderless or extended art cards over the regular prints. The thriller novel prints look dope and I'd totally play with them if I felt I needed any of those cards. I do agree on the game pieces themselves being lackluster. It all but guarantees that these cards won't hold value over time. The cards that maintain their value are usually ones that are worth playing, and most of these... they're not worth playing. That's my main point of contention with a lot of Secret Lairs, they aren't picking cards that are good enough or useful enough to warrant a print. Cards like Dueling Grounds, Mana Crypt/Vault, Edgar Markov, Triomes, Fetch Lands, Mindbreak Trap... they could all stand to be reprinted but instead they're picking junk like Scourge of Valkas? Ridiculous.
The point on the Just Add Milk (in both its original and newest iteration) is misleading IMO. The full rules text and necessary game information all exists on a single side of the card on the "backside of the box". The front of the box is primarily for display purposes and a player could very easily use the other side for play purposes.
9:48 While I 100% understand the issue of cards being unreadable, I wanted to point out that the backside of the cereal box cards *should* have all of the information you need to play those cards. Sakashima, for example, has its name, mana cost, card type, creature types, card text, and power/toughness shown on its back. If you want to play the card, you can just play with its backside face-up.
I feel like I'M losing my mind at the sight if these cards. I just recently got back into magic after quitting around Urzas Saga only to discover this is what magic had devolved into?
I actually do use a dire undercurrents signed by the artist, I discovered it one day while upgrading my wilhelt zombie precon and it felt perfect with the blue and black card draw and making opponents lose cards, I was on tcg ordering cheaper "damaged" cards, and ended up with a really cool signed copy of a very underused card, which I thought was awesome i got a cheap underused card and it happened to be signed by the original artist as I always value collectibles like that and would never have thought I would get one so cheaply and simply binned as "damaged" on tcg player
We have a ruling at our table: can’t read it-can’t play it (so no weird proxies too). And a buddy and I at this table have both been buying booster boxes since way, way back in the day. We will not spend money if the non-foil price isn’t 70%ish the box. Though we have moved to collectors boxes in recent sets. -Secret Lairs, commander exclusive, modern reprints, and many of the recent sets have proven under valued. (Not to mention other subjective issues similar to your points).
I agree that often secret Lairs have difficult to read cardtext. I find it funny though that you bring it up with these ones in particular, some like "Keep Partying Hard, Shred Harder Than You Previously Thought Possible" are abominations when comparing them with these ones (looking online I mean, I've never bought a Secret Lair before).
THANK YOU. Secret Lairs have been mostly hot garbage for a long time. I am glad someone with a voice is speaking for the customer. I refuse to pay $30 on a SL unless there is at minimum one $30 card in the box. So as you can tell, I buy very few.
Man...I remember being so excited when Kaleidoscope Killers was released. Great new art. Traditional frames. Could actually read them...oof, been a long couple- er, four years since.
It would be neat to see a retrospective of past foil SL grades based on original printing market foil value, vs what the foil SL value actually is. Maybe even compared to the non-foil SL value. Would be neat, and could be used for future foil SL valuation grading.
Totally agree with your point about lairs made of "low-value" cards. The recent galaxy foil rocks + command tower drop wasn't even remotely close to worth it on paper, but they're cards with gorgeous art and are legible game pieces, while being staples that I'll never stop using as long as I play commander. That's what made that one worth it.
Circular logic misprint might be the single best thing they could have done for that secret lair. “Sorcery speed counterspell” rings a lot better and causes more attention then “they made a meh secret lair where the art is very specific”. If I didn’t think so little of quality control I’d say it’s a marketing tactic designed to get collectors to buy it in the name of “they messed up the card and it’ll hold value in the future” (potential hold value)
I'm glad you do these, prof. I was tempted to get the Dan Frazier signets. I kinda regret skipping them. I love the look of the hard boiled thrillers cards. I'm buying that one now! Even though it's worth slightly less than the regular versions, personally, the art is worth it for me.
I'm getting tired of people constantly making fun of the old cartoon from the 70's using 2024 standards and biases. For a low budget cartoon from the 70's that wasn't from a major animation studio I think they did pretty well with the resources they had. Hand drawn animation is incredibly hard, time consuming and takes a lot of skill and is practically a lost art. I would like to see anyone else attempt to do it without replying on animation software and character rigs.
You touched on everything I currently hate about Secret Lairs. I love some of the art, and am fine with the stuff I don't like, but I strongly agree that lots of these Secret Lair "cards" are really art, not usable game peices. If I can't play with someone's deck or hand my deck to another player, and they can't play because they can't read the cards, it's not a game piece. At least I can translate a card that's in Japanese or German.
You want my commentary on this, so here it is. Why is anyone still buying hasbro products? How many times do they have to call you an obstacle between them and their money before you stop contributing to their slow fall into oblivion? How much worse does the paper and cardboard quantity have to get before they stop selling? How much less effort and AI generation do they need for everyone to stop buying it?
I agree whole heartedly with everything you said here. I think I find a little charm in the front half of Adrix and Nev that I might like as a poster but not much else does anything for me. The only other was I like the art of Scourge of valkas, Felidar Guardian, and Peregrine Drake. Unfortunately the cool art is only worth $5 to me tops.
I don't have a problem with the art in Secret Lairs causing an issue with readability, as long as all the game information is contained (so it is in fact a functioning magic card and not just an art card). I mean, that's why they are printed as secret lairs, and not part of the standard sets. It allows for creativity in a way that wouldn't normally be possible when using the cards as part of your deck.
Some of the past Secret Lairs were cool- Tomb Raider- and other- Theros Gods in Constellations- were utterly breathtaking. The Cereal and *especially* Deceptive Divination Lairs insult the customer. The Magic players I know have been unanimously disappointed with the latter.
D seems unfair to the non-foil cereal cards. It is worth more than the asking price on its face, so it shouldn't be just above an outright failure reserved for SL's worth like a dollar total. C or C+ seems more fair.
I’m very conflicted because the MKM showcase secret lair has absolute awful value but Gonti, Grenzo, and Villis rank among my favorite cards in the entire game and I’d love their special printings
I like Prismatic Nightmares' art but these 4/5 card sales being $30 plus is too expensive. Wizards should cut that price in half and make basic land sales contain at least ten of each land type.
I was honestly pretty tempted by the Hard Boiled Thrillers one, particularly for the art, but I already have the rarest of them (Reconnaissance), and I don't know if the others tempt me enough...
So I used to be on board with the unreadable cards, but now I am on the side of - just print out what your complex card does for when it comes into play :) I also think some of these lesser cards are being done in treatments to try and encourage people to use them. I like when unusual low cost cards are made interesting to be honest! but I do wish they would increase the number of cards in a drop. And stop with stuff like Saturday morning cereal boxes. I do NOT want to do a maze to krarks thumbs!
Great video prof! I agree with many of your points. I’d much rather see a lot of these designs on a poster instead of a playable card, and many cards that are offered in these collections are ones I would never use. I wish we got more secret lairs like the Praetor one over any of the ones offered here.
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Great video, I think the best "treatment" is the Karlov Manor one since it is actually LEGIBLE. :D
Unhinged, unglued, why won't they ever do that again!?!?!?!?
what is the music?
Wizards of the Coast desperately trying to find the least expensive cards to reprint literally every time they make anything ever:
Yeah they should reprint every fetch and every shock and sell them in a bundle for $50 for all of them
I am not believe
Dude I know. It’s the same cards every time. Oh gee thanks another Jace. At the end of the day it’s all such a corp decision that it’s obvious at this point. No one, even newer players, would want or need these cards, and the art is pretty lame as well.
@@bobross8585or maybe just not a collection of 4 10 cent cards plus a single $15-$20 staple for $50 or a bunch of basics for $70. Would be much happier with sets of 5 cards each worth $3-$10 for reasonable price points, taking into consideration that wizards does have to pay for newly commissioned art.
And yet they sell faster than light. So I guess there are lots of people just liking the arts @@Reformed322
Prof's face in the thumbnail should be the next art for Smothering Tithe.
Or "Greed".
Holy Emrakul, I'm doing it
Proxy time!
That's a secret lair I would buy
Did you pay 2 to post this?
The dead face at the beginning definitely made me chuckle
Did you enjoy that?
😂😂😂
@@SuperMerryGo the cheery intro into a 😐 was a funny transition
-Many Magic: The Gathering pl- 😐😐
My favorite thing about this drop is that everyone thought they reprinted Black Market Connections but sorry... its only Black Market...
Damn, I was one of them hah
I will say I’m one of those people who saw black market and autofilled connections in my brain. Completely forgot about that card cuz I don’t run it at all.
@@serberus180 What a shame; it's really good
Thank you for saving me $40
Just buy the pirate precon@@demoncushion9600
The best secret lair would be Chains of Mephistopheles with a flowchart of what the card does.
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE COLLECTORS!?!?!?
@josiahclarke3535 idk just thinking about collectors feelings makes my wallet smolder to cinders 😂😂😂
I think cards get the most unreadable when the words are part of the art, but I do appreciate that the hardboiled thrillers drop at least used a preset font, making it significantly more readable at a glance than many other card treatments.
Honestly, the Jace is almost *more* readable, separating the triggered ability from the loyalty abilities. But that's one lair among many.
Though not quite a catastrophe for me, it bears mentioning that as a new player this is how I am learning about cards like Circular Logic; as a misprint.
I rate this comment a 2 out of 2.
It's wild to me that the textless Cryptic Command - which I thought was pretty universally recognized as a mistake for a game piece - looks downright tame next to the layout and visual design for some of these drops. Pageantry is definitely the primary or only goal here
the primary goal of art cards is for the art?? who would have guessed.
I feel you on the "secret lair cards are bad for gameplay" bit. I haven't bought a single secret liar personally, but I have been an MTG fan for a long time. As an artist myself, I respect all of the secret lair artworks, and some of them are truly just beyond incredible. I enjoy the ones that people seem to dislike, such as the works from Matt Jukes, the 'anime' ones (that a lot of people are mixed on) like the works of Yoji Shinkawa, Tsubonari, Riyou Kamei, and JungShan, and then the ones that are a bit more out there, like works from Dani Pendergast, Micha Huigen, Mark Riddick, Lauren YS, or Ayako Ishiguro, and even the more naturalistic painterly stuff from Frank Frazetta or Dan Frazier.
All of that said... a lot of them I'd rather just have a poster of or put them in a frame and not try to jam them in an actual match of MTG. I respect what Wizards is trying to do to get more attention for artists and have super cool cards and let the artists just do their own thing, but I feel like a lot of them just don't work as Magic the Gathering cards for being played.
A yes, the Secret Liar.
@@benjaminloyd6056 auto correct has a great sense of humor sometimes
It makes you wonder how the process of designing how the card will look like is for SLs. Some of them have full art with actual textbox and some... have... stuff vaguely reminding text on them. Why the legibility is so wildly different?
Also art being subjective and all that shtick but effort to make the artwork on some of them seems extremally low compared to others.
And lastly no matter how good an artwork is, no matter how much effort was put into it, it still may not be suitable for a card that may be used in a game. Lets not try to squeeze those onto cards at any cost.
I straight up bought four copies of Lightpaws just for the alternative artwork. A few these Secret Lairs I'd never touch though.
For special arts things like the beauty of the beasts is the way to go. Pretty and unique art that is also formated like a normal magic card and is easy to read.
tbh, the "NEW SECRET LAIR ALERT" head spam is always my favorite part of secret lairs
Same
Same. Made me spill some of my soda.
Huh surprised that they didn’t have a dragon secret lair for Saturday and Lunar New Year.
Overload 1 (Replace every instance of the word "surprised" with the word "disappointed")
I so badly wanted one with dragons 😢
Heck, if you wanted a simple improvement trade out that Scourge of Valkas for Terror of the Peaks; both fill a similar role but I don't think anyone asks which is better.
They do APAC promos for that every year and you can get a sarkhan and dragonlord's servant by going to your LGS across the next week and playing in standard events
No that would make too much business sense
The abyss stared into us, and we stared back.
For we are empty.
My wallets empty and it ain't got no eyes, splain that oh wise poet
I wish The Abyss was staring at me from this Secret Lair
It would also be easier to stomach a high price tag for a middling price group of cards if they were some kind of coherent theme. I wouldn't mind (for example) Obeka being a $0.25 card in a $30 secret lair if the other cards were ones that you would play in an Obeka commander deck, especially with them all decorated in the same theme. It just doesn't make sense pairing her with Jace, Wielder of Self-Millsteries and Dire Undercurrents - not to mention Reconnaissance - instead of cards synergistic to her like Sundial of the Infinite and Final Fortune - even with spots for cheap cards like Mulldrifter and Alchemist's Gambit - that you would intentionally put in the same deck as her. Considering how the only consistent draw of Secret Lairs is the cool-looking styles, there just aren't very many secret lair sets that you would - or even can - all play in the same deck in any format, even a casual 100 card singleton, so that those styles can give your deck a unique feel on the table.
Absolutely! Some bespoke Secret Lairs based around a given commander or deck archetype would really help pull some of the less coherent art style ones together.
Totally agree. Completely random cards that MAYBE some day will fit into a commander deck? It’s terrible.
That’s why I really liked the ones they did with Nekusar last year. Every card in that set was at least usable in a Nekusar build. Was still eligible and made sense as a collective product
I think you really got it. The cards don’t even go together a lot of the time.
I thought Wall of Omens said Wall of Otters since it's so hard to read. I will definitely be calling it that from now on.
be careful wizards might see this and make it into a card in the next unset
Glad I wasn’t the only one
I like the way they handle the rules text with the cereal box style art where one side is the "rule" side and the other the "art" side. It makes it a lot easier than when the text is messily crammed into the art
It was a nice idea but then I noticed that the mana cost is only printed on the art side, and not the rules side. So you'll have to remember the mana cost or the rules text, or spend time flipping the card in its sleeve to check one or the other side.
@@FPzero the cmc is in the same nutrition box as the rules on the back
@@LeekDavis613 Ah I think I missed that! Which, I suppose is just furthering the Professor's point about card legibility when you think about it.
@@FPzero well, its pretty easy to read imo. But from the promo vids they dont give full shots of the backside of the cereal cards for some reason.
05:50 not to mention that you can't recognize what the card is by looks alone, since the mana cost is hidden below the artwork and the card doesn't have a colored border or any color in general.
Yeah they don't even attempt to be playable cards just a fomo speculation people are gambling will increase in value
I do kind of like them as a poster. And would like them with proper framing as abstract art for those cards
@@androkguz I always thought it was weird magic doesn't have high quality art books of their cards. Pretty sure fans would buy them, I know I would
@@rootfish2671 i've got a book i got from reddit secret santa a few years ago. i gotta go find it, but it had some nice high quality art
@@rootfish2671 Only thing I've seen was a book of "The Art of Zendikar"
I feel really bad that the fomo strategy worked on me. Most of what I got was not worth what I paid. I was just shocked that the Cats and Dogs deck sold out immediately but this one is still going on after two days. This is artificial scarcity at its finest, and I’m ashamed that it worked on me. I’m so sorry for contributing to this problem. Buy singles, support your LGS, and don’t feel pressured to buy anything like this secret lair drop.
The fact the first non-deck secret lair after the FOMO method was introduced had practically no value should not be ignored
You may still be able to cancel your order!
I don't blame magic has always been financially predatory with their products and the limited edition FOMO strategy is a tried and true business strategy. At least you didn't fight other people over a pink Stanley cup
Just cancel your order.
@@NewFemtex isn't their a very limited amount of time to cancel your order?
I’m yet to regret missing a secret lair. The ones I enjoyed the most so far were the pixel basic lands and the Dan Frazier retro frame rocks, but even these had the best of the bunch reserved for in person events.
I wish I had grabbed the coin flip one, but that's really it.
I've purchased exactly two - the Bob Ross one and the most recent Doctor Who one, because hey, Doctor Who and mechanically unique cards. This entire drop just makes me sad. I remember seeing older Secret Lairs with Craterhoof Behemoth or Consecrated Sphinx, or Lairs with basic lands that had *ten* cards rather than five. Ah well, gotta pay for the Hasbro board's bonuses somehow, I guess...
Hey, "Bilbo Baggins" by Leonard Nemoy was a cultural touchstone! You take that back!
Hear hear
Rabble rabble!
🎶 In the middle of the Earth, in the land of Shire
Lives a brave little Hobbit whom we all admire 🎶
I do still use it to explain LSD use to people who have never done it. I love the song but that video...
Came to the comments to say the same.
“Honey, what day is it?”
“TCC is complaining about Secret Lairs again.”
“Cool, it’s Wednesday.”
Haha
Wow, there aren’t any basic lands in this. Thrilling.
It seems to me, an added value blizzards could toss in, would be for double sided cards, a token card that would work in the deck. ESPECIALLY for foil cards, having non foil token to represent it, would make life easier for someone playing in official events.
Secret lair alert depression
At a Legacy weekly, I saw a somewhat newer player use Grief, see the cereal version of Ulamog, Ceaseless hunger in their opponent's hand, stare at the Reanimate in their hand, and proceed to take something else because they assumed that version of Ulamog had the shuffle clause of the old one. It might not have been correct to reanimate the Ulamog because of the deck they were playing against (Green 12 post) being easily able to search out Karakas but it still serves as an example of how the awful formatting can screw people over.
Cereal 2: Electric Boogaloo.
Yeah they literally already did the cereal-style art... why would they retread old ground like that? Feels really uninspired and lazy (as a direction decision from management, not to trash talk the hard work that the artists are doing).
@@antonioarrendol2655I suspect these are just unreleased cards they commissioned from the first set so they could be on schedule for future secret lair releases
Why does this joke get recycled for every single sequel? Furthermore, why do people continue to find it funny? Honestly blows my mind. "haha it rhyme"
@@rootfish2671 That... would be a stroke of evil business genius... if you only think about it as far as an evil busimessman would think about it, which is, "does this save us money?" And not, you know, "is this going to make us look silly?"
@@jeffe2267womp womp
A consideration for the Cereal lair: I think there's a good change that Sakashima is going to be reprinted in Thunder Junction somewhere. I think Partner has a strong possibility of showing up as at least a subtheme in the set, and Sakashima is kind of an outlaw character. So I expect the "value" of this lair to very quickly evaporate when Sakashima becomes a $10 card.
It won't be this version, it'll be a new sakashima
@@animesfreakify Maybe, but you have to admit that Wizards has a proven track record of printing a low-supply card into a secret lair and then immediately printing it into a widely available mainline release. Being the highest value card in the entire drop it seems a little sus, no? If Sakashima is a character in the set, then perhaps the main set will include a new version and one of the commander decks will have the reprint.
Oh yeah, exactly what I expect to see in the Wild West set; a character from a plane themed entirely around Japanese culture???
@@StarkMaximum Shanghai Noon vibes.
@@StarkMaximum The theme of the set is rascals and scalawags from around the multiverse showing up for a showdown. So I don't think culture or origin are exclusionary factors for any character. But even so, it could be in a commander deck, too, or the List possibly.
The terrible shipping times is what sent me over the edge on this one
It does not well for magic cards as a successful franchise. All of these mistakes scream the massive layoffs are negatively affecting the quality of their products and Hasbro is just chasing short term earnings until they end magic as a franchise completely to appease the share holders
For me it's the departure from print to demand in favor of the fomo model. I'm done with SLs if I can't even buy them after taking time to consider the purchase - and I say that as someone who bought several last year.
Sorry, but if it's first come, bot served, I'm left with scalpers and proxies to get SL cards I want.
And guess what? WotC printed proxies for their 30th anniversary! So guess which one I'm choosing?
How are the shipping times terrible? Compared to past secret lairs it's pretty fast.
@@Nanook128 Six months to three months is virtually indistinguishable. If they were promising like, 1 to 2 week turnaround that would be a very different story, and even THEN it still wouldn't excuse changing to the FOMO model in a lot of peoples' eyes.
@@trident042 prof said they were shipping out in March. That's less than a month away. Was the statement about when they're shipping out inaccurate?
That Circular Logic is _clearly_ a callback to Portal style counter spells, like Mystic Denial.
They just forgot to print the extra rules text: "Play Circular Logic only in response to another player playing a spell".
I agree with the assessments of all these lairs completely. They are really not worth the cost. That said...I am still dangerously close to getting the Beauty of the Beasts one because I do play 4 out of 5 od those card and I find the art so gorgeous! While still looking like magic cards! No illegible frame, no treatment that makes it look like a poster or a cereal box or anything except a magic card. That's what you usually gets my attention the most. Cards I love in beautiful new art on a good old simple magic card frame.
That's the one I'm closest to getting. The felidar is gorgeous
I bought it, for the exact reasons you mentioned. Never bought a secret lair before. I have a home for all five cards, the art is fantastic, and I hope it reinforces that we want legible game pieces at the end of the day. The rest of the lairs are dreadful
Get it secondhand after it comes out. They're always available somewhere for list price, usually less.
Literally the first thing I said when I saw the full drop was "What's going on with card selection?".
Like it's strangely bad
The art for the beast ones is pretty 😊 and that’s the only positive thing I have to say about these secret lairs.
The business model for secret lairs is so predatory and fucked up for so many reasons. You're being sold a fomo that will be ancient history by the time you actually receive it. With how fast Wotc turns these out, I highly doubt there are any test prints done before hand. You're being sold an idea of a card that hasn't even been printed yet. And by the time you do receive it, it's way too late to complain about any quality issues with foils, printing, or card stock. From my own personally experience, the quality for secret lairs varies dramatically and you'll never really know how the cards will turn out until your receive them. And if they're shitty pringles or something, who cares? 30 more secret lairs have dropped since you placed your order so who knows how these new ones will turn out? They're manufactured collector's items with barely any quality control and rarely any substantial value long term. All secret lairs do is stuff the secondary market with overpriced collectable skins. I wish they were more like bundles that gave you a set of cards themed around something. Like the commander collections?! That even came with their own unique art and were sold in stores?! Secret lairs are just shittier commander collections without any of the practicality.
ngl, I got really excited for Hard boiled Thrillers as I use like 4 of the 5 in active commader decks and I love the art, all the other drops however were easy passes
Prof I'm gonna be honest, I'm so disconnected from what Wizards is up to these days and so utterly fatigued by the constant barrage of Secret Lairs that I didn't even know this SuperDrop existed. Now I'm just sitting here laughing.
Don't think about it! Just consume and get excited for new product!
The prof's glorious coiffed hair compared with the clips he's chosen as heralds of secret lairs says a lot about the evolution of this problem, especially for those of us who remember the reasons why his hair was sort at that time.
I actually like the Cereal cards because on the back side all the text is on it and it’s decently legible.
such a glaring misprint is really embarassing
The whole reason to change to limit supply was to double capitalize on FOMO instead of just being regular FOMO.
I bought the just add milk set. I needed adrix and nev and sakashima anyway and I enjoy the art, I do agree the double sided thing will be the most annoying thing about them though
Sakashima is a 50 CAD in Canada and I dig the art. So that's why I got it and Twincasters is just extra.
I got the black market/dire undercurrents/reconnaissance one but unfoil. Secret lair foils become hella curled when they get shipped up north.
Personally, I like the cereal box art. I think the front side makes it pretty clear what the card is, and while I agree on the annoyance of having the pertinent text (effects, power, toughness, etc) be on the back... I'd also say that the cards in that set are fairly well known selections that only fairly new, inexperienced, or lapsed fans won't be aware of.
Also, I generally like cards that try to be different than just your standard "MTG template" art style. More and more, I've found myself preferring the borderless or extended art cards over the regular prints. The thriller novel prints look dope and I'd totally play with them if I felt I needed any of those cards.
I do agree on the game pieces themselves being lackluster. It all but guarantees that these cards won't hold value over time. The cards that maintain their value are usually ones that are worth playing, and most of these... they're not worth playing. That's my main point of contention with a lot of Secret Lairs, they aren't picking cards that are good enough or useful enough to warrant a print.
Cards like Dueling Grounds, Mana Crypt/Vault, Edgar Markov, Triomes, Fetch Lands, Mindbreak Trap... they could all stand to be reprinted but instead they're picking junk like Scourge of Valkas? Ridiculous.
The point on the Just Add Milk (in both its original and newest iteration) is misleading IMO. The full rules text and necessary game information all exists on a single side of the card on the "backside of the box". The front of the box is primarily for display purposes and a player could very easily use the other side for play purposes.
9:48 While I 100% understand the issue of cards being unreadable, I wanted to point out that the backside of the cereal box cards *should* have all of the information you need to play those cards. Sakashima, for example, has its name, mana cost, card type, creature types, card text, and power/toughness shown on its back. If you want to play the card, you can just play with its backside face-up.
So people have to miss out on the art on the other side to show the info side?
WOTC: We can't fix the misprint cause it's already been printed.
Us: Soooo we were right about going to limited quantities being bad?
Is this the first one of the year? Already hard to keep track. Excited for this video.
We are watching this man descend into madness in real time, everyone. 😭😂💀
And I will give him Likes for it
I feel like I'M losing my mind at the sight if these cards. I just recently got back into magic after quitting around Urzas Saga only to discover this is what magic had devolved into?
Have been for years.
I was fully ready to drop some dough on the Winter Superdrop. I instantly put my credit card away after I looked through what they were offering.
I did too lol.
I actually do use a dire undercurrents signed by the artist, I discovered it one day while upgrading my wilhelt zombie precon and it felt perfect with the blue and black card draw and making opponents lose cards, I was on tcg ordering cheaper "damaged" cards, and ended up with a really cool signed copy of a very underused card, which I thought was awesome i got a cheap underused card and it happened to be signed by the original artist as I always value collectibles like that and would never have thought I would get one so cheaply and simply binned as "damaged" on tcg player
That Scourge of Valkas should have been Terror of the Peaks.
We have a ruling at our table: can’t read it-can’t play it (so no weird proxies too).
And a buddy and I at this table have both been buying booster boxes since way, way back in the day. We will not spend money if the non-foil price isn’t 70%ish the box. Though we have moved to collectors boxes in recent sets.
-Secret Lairs, commander exclusive, modern reprints, and many of the recent sets have proven under valued. (Not to mention other subjective issues similar to your points).
6:23 what they just give you 5 bugs back and that is it ? what a great product and quality control xD
That'd what Arena is for.
I agree that often secret Lairs have difficult to read cardtext.
I find it funny though that you bring it up with these ones in particular, some like
"Keep Partying Hard, Shred Harder Than You Previously Thought Possible" are abominations
when comparing them with these ones (looking online I mean, I've never bought a Secret Lair before).
kyle hills face plastered on a body when he said "Oh my god its brian" had no business making me laugh as hard as it did
5:13 Ahhh, my favorite card, Wall of Otters.
At this point, I'm just numb to it all. Lorcana's been pretty fun though.
I would like to recommend flesh and blood if you're looking to jump ship. The game is stellar.
I am working on learning Flesh and Blood
THANK YOU. Secret Lairs have been mostly hot garbage for a long time. I am glad someone with a voice is speaking for the customer. I refuse to pay $30 on a SL unless there is at minimum one $30 card in the box. So as you can tell, I buy very few.
NEW SECRET LAIR ALERT!!!!! 😂😂😂
Man...I remember being so excited when Kaleidoscope Killers was released. Great new art. Traditional frames. Could actually read them...oof, been a long couple- er, four years since.
LOL “ITS BRIAN KIBLER!” XD
Kyle Hill cameo XD
I love the ongoing Kibler gag. Keep up the good work Prof!
Bilbo Baggins is a 70s icon!
It would be neat to see a retrospective of past foil SL grades based on original printing market foil value, vs what the foil SL value actually is. Maybe even compared to the non-foil SL value. Would be neat, and could be used for future foil SL valuation grading.
6:38 OKAY, Y'ALL KNEW WHAT YOU WERE DOING WITH THIS ONE 💀
I don't get it...
Totally agree with your point about lairs made of "low-value" cards. The recent galaxy foil rocks + command tower drop wasn't even remotely close to worth it on paper, but they're cards with gorgeous art and are legible game pieces, while being staples that I'll never stop using as long as I play commander. That's what made that one worth it.
Circular logic misprint might be the single best thing they could have done for that secret lair. “Sorcery speed counterspell” rings a lot better and causes more attention then “they made a meh secret lair where the art is very specific”. If I didn’t think so little of quality control I’d say it’s a marketing tactic designed to get collectors to buy it in the name of “they messed up the card and it’ll hold value in the future” (potential hold value)
I don’t think I’ve ever seen an uncorrected error increase desirability, but sure, it’s a theory.
I'm glad you do these, prof. I was tempted to get the Dan Frazier signets. I kinda regret skipping them.
I love the look of the hard boiled thrillers cards. I'm buying that one now! Even though it's worth slightly less than the regular versions, personally, the art is worth it for me.
Hey. Bilbo Baggins is the greatest little hobbit of them all. Best not forget that
I'm getting tired of people constantly making fun of the old cartoon from the 70's using 2024 standards and biases. For a low budget cartoon from the 70's that wasn't from a major animation studio I think they did pretty well with the resources they had. Hand drawn animation is incredibly hard, time consuming and takes a lot of skill and is practically a lost art. I would like to see anyone else attempt to do it without replying on animation software and character rigs.
I bought the Yargle thinking it was a Yargle and Multani and only realising after that it wasn't
I guess I'm building a Krarkashima deck now
“Doesn’t he look tired?…”
;{)
You touched on everything I currently hate about Secret Lairs. I love some of the art, and am fine with the stuff I don't like, but I strongly agree that lots of these Secret Lair "cards" are really art, not usable game peices.
If I can't play with someone's deck or hand my deck to another player, and they can't play because they can't read the cards, it's not a game piece. At least I can translate a card that's in Japanese or German.
You want my commentary on this, so here it is. Why is anyone still buying hasbro products? How many times do they have to call you an obstacle between them and their money before you stop contributing to their slow fall into oblivion? How much worse does the paper and cardboard quantity have to get before they stop selling? How much less effort and AI generation do they need for everyone to stop buying it?
I agree whole heartedly with everything you said here. I think I find a little charm in the front half of Adrix and Nev that I might like as a poster but not much else does anything for me. The only other was I like the art of Scourge of valkas, Felidar Guardian, and Peregrine Drake. Unfortunately the cool art is only worth $5 to me tops.
Amonkhet Invocations: "People say we are illegible."
Secret Lairs" "Hold my beer."
I’d like to see a video about how the bonus card in various Lairs affects the original grade, if at all.
Omg! It’s Brian Kibler! 😂
Not to mention that Jace is on the list for Karlov manor now out. Did a sealed with two boxes and we pulled two of them.
The only thing exciting about this drop is the ability to get a foil Reconnaissance
this is the ONLY reason I would buy it. But ... I don't have 50€ to throw at few cardboards.
1:37 "Bold strategy Cotton. Lets see if it pays off."
I don't have a problem with the art in Secret Lairs causing an issue with readability, as long as all the game information is contained (so it is in fact a functioning magic card and not just an art card). I mean, that's why they are printed as secret lairs, and not part of the standard sets. It allows for creativity in a way that wouldn't normally be possible when using the cards as part of your deck.
Some of the past Secret Lairs were cool- Tomb Raider- and other- Theros Gods in Constellations- were utterly breathtaking. The Cereal and *especially* Deceptive Divination Lairs insult the customer. The Magic players I know have been unanimously disappointed with the latter.
[wipes blood from eyes] Egad, my eyeballs haven't hurt this bad since the Amonkhet Invocations
D seems unfair to the non-foil cereal cards. It is worth more than the asking price on its face, so it shouldn't be just above an outright failure reserved for SL's worth like a dollar total. C or C+ seems more fair.
HEY NOW Nemoy bein' a weirdo is godly treasure and the comparison was ignoble!
I’m very conflicted because the MKM showcase secret lair has absolute awful value but Gonti, Grenzo, and Villis rank among my favorite cards in the entire game and I’d love their special printings
Brian Kibler😂
I like Prismatic Nightmares' art but these 4/5 card sales being $30 plus is too expensive. Wizards should cut that price in half and make basic land sales contain at least ten of each land type.
Cereal 2: Electric Boogaloo
Yeah I got cereal 2 because I like the look and the price/value was decent enough.
I got it because Krark/Sakashima is my cEDH deck 😂
Plus I wanted another copy of the Quandrix twins (maybe for a brew of Slime Against Humanity lol)
Thanks for the review. Entertaining as always. Thanks for the laughs.
Proxy the cards, it is *ALWAYS* morally justified
I feel it was a bit harsh to put just add milk at D. I consider any secret lair where you get secondary market value at least a C.
I believe the quote was "Each day we stray further from God." Seems adequate here.
Edit: What are the typos? I obviously missed something.
They printed the counter spell "Circular Logic" in sorcery instead of instant.
I was honestly pretty tempted by the Hard Boiled Thrillers one, particularly for the art, but I already have the rarest of them (Reconnaissance), and I don't know if the others tempt me enough...
So I used to be on board with the unreadable cards, but now I am on the side of - just print out what your complex card does for when it comes into play :) I also think some of these lesser cards are being done in treatments to try and encourage people to use them. I like when unusual low cost cards are made interesting to be honest! but I do wish they would increase the number of cards in a drop. And stop with stuff like Saturday morning cereal boxes. I do NOT want to do a maze to krarks thumbs!
Great video prof! I agree with many of your points. I’d much rather see a lot of these designs on a poster instead of a playable card, and many cards that are offered in these collections are ones I would never use. I wish we got more secret lairs like the Praetor one over any of the ones offered here.
Why didn't they call "The Beauty of the Beasts" just "Art Series: Rowynn Ellis"?
Oh, it's because there's 5 cards, instead of the Art Series max of 4.
I mean its time for a "we are trully sorry" secret layr.
Instead of whatever that is.
I just want to add at this point that in Europe we pay an additional 5€ for each version. So 35€ non foil and 45€ foil plus 6€ shipping.
give it 2-3 year and Secret Lair will start printing single cards and you can pay 30-40 for 1 card. where half are a 5 cent common