At 1:15:32 J.P. is wondering how worldly he can be, when Carey interupts with the question, what is worldliness? Which J.P. acknowledges and then moves on undetered. I would have thought the spirit of the world is well described from Gal.5:13 on to the end of the book. The whole book of James, first and second Peter, 2 Peter 1:3,4. The grace of God is that He has given us His divine mind, the Holy Spirit, Christ in us, our hope of glory, the life of Christ in us saves us. They have accepted the consequence of our transgressions against life (them) into themselves so we are free to live in their life and live their life. My ego, animal mind, reptilean mind is still alive and well but I am not living to that mind. To a greater or lesser degree I am living intentionaly from the mind of God. Life and the mind of God is correcting me. It is a process. Rom.8:1,2.
I really enjoyed this conversation. One thing that stood out to me was the idea of the next generation being against or uninterested with organized religion. I moved from Texas to Colorado to start a church and over the last couple of years we have heard that complaint a lot when inviting people to church. It's odd because they still go to the same Bible study each week, on the same day, at the same time, in the same place, with the same people. So, I'm curious what does "organized religion" refer to and how do you work against putting off that vibe or outlook?
What strikes me is that both this and the previous podcast assume the “gospel” as developed in the “technological shift” that started in the late 1800’s with Charles Finney and “the use of means” and continued with various formula until the present in the Protestant world and an idea of “eternal security” that differs from both the Reformed and the Wesleyan concepts of the pre-Finney era, let alone the two millennia of Catholic practice and theology. I grew up with most churches I knew being the “hymn sandwich” form that has now morphed into what Michael Bird termed “a Coldplay concert followed by a TED talk.” That is so different than the Anglican and especially the Catholic traditions. And 1.4 billion of the Christians alive today are Catholic. The second thing that strikes me is that the “confession + baptism” structure of Unite is not dissimilar to the what the Catholic Church has practiced for millennia except that (1) confession, among other things, is protected and less open leading to abuse and more open to leading to the experience of forgiveness and (2) catechisis before baptism is much deeper and therefore takes more time (and I bet the baptismal promises are fuller and the exorcistic element is stronger - but I did not hear their promises). Are we trying to re-invent what the Church has known for ages and doing it more superficially? I have indeed sat in the confessional of an Acts retreat (a renewal and revival retreat common in the Catholic dioceses I know in the USA) and heard incredible confessions from people who have been away from the faith for 10, 20, 40 years, but I could speak the authoritative word of forgiveness to them and watch them as the burden fell from them. I might that in this Austin diocese the Liber Christo method is used in exorcism, which utilizes lay coaches, clerical counsel and ministry, a medical exam, a psychiatric exam, and the like empowering and enabling folk to break free from sin, depression, etc. by enabling and empowering them to choose life empowered by the grace of God. While demonic exacerbation of sinful thoughts and actions, medical or psychiatric conditions, etc. may be dealt with during the process, only if the team sees good evidence that there is a demon present that the person cannot be strengthened or helped to deal with is the person sent to an exorcist. The exorcist (who does not live in the area and so the person travels to them for a period of time) likes this for he says 99% of the issues are resolved on the diocesan level. I kept hearing elements of this system coming up in the discussion. It makes me sad to see the need to reinvent what is already invented and is based on two thousand years of learning.
Thank you for sharing this with us! I needed the reminder that what has always worked, the simple, basic things, are the most important things. Can't wait to hear what God does through your ministry in 2025!
I was present when Jenny led us in confession at Passion 2022 and it was super powerful
She's the best
Great conversation!
At 1:15:32 J.P. is wondering how worldly he can be, when Carey interupts with the question, what is worldliness? Which J.P. acknowledges and then moves on undetered. I would have thought the spirit of the world is well described from Gal.5:13 on to the end of the book. The whole book of James, first and second Peter, 2 Peter 1:3,4. The grace of God is that He has given us His divine mind, the Holy Spirit, Christ in us, our hope of glory, the life of Christ in us saves us. They have accepted the consequence of our transgressions against life (them) into themselves so we are free to live in their life and live their life. My ego, animal mind, reptilean mind is still alive and well but I am not living to that mind. To a greater or lesser degree I am living intentionaly from the mind of God. Life and the mind of God is correcting me. It is a process. Rom.8:1,2.
Rock solid. Time for you to talk to Paul Vanderklay. Or better yet Christian Baxter
Thanks for sharing
I really enjoyed this conversation. One thing that stood out to me was the idea of the next generation being against or uninterested with organized religion. I moved from Texas to Colorado to start a church and over the last couple of years we have heard that complaint a lot when inviting people to church. It's odd because they still go to the same Bible study each week, on the same day, at the same time, in the same place, with the same people. So, I'm curious what does "organized religion" refer to and how do you work against putting off that vibe or outlook?
Interesting thought to consider for sure
What strikes me is that both this and the previous podcast assume the “gospel” as developed in the “technological shift” that started in the late 1800’s with Charles Finney and “the use of means” and continued with various formula until the present in the Protestant world and an idea of “eternal security” that differs from both the Reformed and the Wesleyan concepts of the pre-Finney era, let alone the two millennia of Catholic practice and theology. I grew up with most churches I knew being the “hymn sandwich” form that has now morphed into what Michael Bird termed “a Coldplay concert followed by a TED talk.” That is so different than the Anglican and especially the Catholic traditions. And 1.4 billion of the Christians alive today are Catholic. The second thing that strikes me is that the “confession + baptism” structure of Unite is not dissimilar to the what the Catholic Church has practiced for millennia except that (1) confession, among other things, is protected and less open leading to abuse and more open to leading to the experience of forgiveness and (2) catechisis before baptism is much deeper and therefore takes more time (and I bet the baptismal promises are fuller and the exorcistic element is stronger - but I did not hear their promises). Are we trying to re-invent what the Church has known for ages and doing it more superficially? I have indeed sat in the confessional of an Acts retreat (a renewal and revival retreat common in the Catholic dioceses I know in the USA) and heard incredible confessions from people who have been away from the faith for 10, 20, 40 years, but I could speak the authoritative word of forgiveness to them and watch them as the burden fell from them. I might that in this Austin diocese the Liber Christo method is used in exorcism, which utilizes lay coaches, clerical counsel and ministry, a medical exam, a psychiatric exam, and the like empowering and enabling folk to break free from sin, depression, etc. by enabling and empowering them to choose life empowered by the grace of God. While demonic exacerbation of sinful thoughts and actions, medical or psychiatric conditions, etc. may be dealt with during the process, only if the team sees good evidence that there is a demon present that the person cannot be strengthened or helped to deal with is the person sent to an exorcist. The exorcist (who does not live in the area and so the person travels to them for a period of time) likes this for he says 99% of the issues are resolved on the diocesan level. I kept hearing elements of this system coming up in the discussion. It makes me sad to see the need to reinvent what is already invented and is based on two thousand years of learning.
Thank you for sharing this with us! I needed the reminder that what has always worked, the simple, basic things, are the most important things. Can't wait to hear what God does through your ministry in 2025!
Glad it was helpful!
There’s nothing new under the sun.