I appreciate this conversation so much. After 40 years of pastoring the local church I’ve taken a new role of Pastor of regional and global networks. This was refreshing to hear.
Very good pivot from your typical conversations with leaders. Every leader should ask themselves what the difference is between growth and revival. If they truly ponder this question they may arrive at answers that propel them towards the growth they naturally seek.
Thanks for this! Revival and Awakening is my deep desire, but sometimes I settle for changes I can make (new efforts, changes, etc), but it is my heart that needs to change. Thanks again.
Loved this conversation, I loved the picture Al paints with his words as he talks about why buildings matter and the cathedrals of hope. Thanks so much for creating space for this conversation, it was wonderfully inspiring.
I agree and disagree with Pastor Gordon, but first, let me say how much I love your show, Carey - I watch all the time and never miss an episode! Thank you for the thoughtful conversations you facilitate. Second, with all due respect, I feel like Al Gordon is missing something important. I agree with him that a spiritual awakening is happening, but it goes far beyond the evangelical framework he operates in and describes. There is indeed a Christian spiritual awakening underway, but it’s beyond evangelical or conservative Protestantism. Yet, he keeps suggesting that’s where the “move of God” is happening, which contradicts the broader trends and actual statistics. Pastor Gordon reminds me of a 16th & 17th century Catholic leader around the Council of Trent and during the Counter-Reformation, who was promoting that Catholicism was thriving, while completely missing the monumental shift happening in the Protestant Reformation. Catholicism, obviously, did just fine in its own spheres, especially in places like Italy, France, and Spain, but it couldn’t stop a new Christian Spirituality awakening in the birth of Protestantism. Similarly today, while evangelicalism may continue in its own way, Pastor Gordon seems to be missing where the real Christian Spiritual awakening is happening - what is a Neo-Reformation-unfolding today. And it’s not in evangelical doctrinal Christianity. Big Eva, like the Catholics of old, needs reforming. So where is it happening? It’s emerging in Metamodern Christian Spirituality. People are leaving evangelical "orthodoxy" in droves, disillusioned by its doctrinal rigidity, exclusivity, moralism, and just plain weirdness in the 21st century. While Pastor Gordon may see growth in his church or others like it, this is no different from how Catholicism saw vitality in parts of Europe even as Luther and Calvin were leading transformative movements elsewhere. The deconstruction movement, today, has proven this shift is real, and now it’s evolving into something even deeper and beyond: a rise in Metamodern Christian Spirituality. This new spirituality is more generous, loving, and inclusive. It’s kinder to science, more self-aware, and far less tethered to rigid doctrines, biblicism, or salvation-based dualities. Gone is the "get-saved-or-go-to-hell" narrative. Instead, it’s a Christianity that emphasizes greater love, inclusion, and theological openness-qualities that resonate far more with the complexities of the modern world, and actually reflect Christ's words on the New Testament. Carey, I deeply appreciated your comment at around five minutes in: “If it is of God, let it flow.” That’s exactly right. As Christian spirituality enters its third millennium, it’s evolving beyond evangelicalism, and now evolving beyond deconstruction, and there will be no stopping it. Thank you for your incredible content and your kind, generous heart. Even when I see things differently, I always appreciate the way you host these important discussions.
Revivial comes with reform and I cannot see how modern churches can handle the transformation. We are going back to living like the NT, abandoning our traditional church system and returning to a house based system that looks like a Christian form of the Greek and Roman Ekklesia. No more tithing, no motmee communion and no more titled leaders. A movement where agape is expressed as one people and these people will be functional Royal Priests and not trained to sit in pews.
I appreciate this conversation so much. After 40 years of pastoring the local church I’ve taken a new role of Pastor of regional and global networks. This was refreshing to hear.
So glad, thanks for watching!
Very good pivot from your typical conversations with leaders. Every leader should ask themselves what the difference is between growth and revival. If they truly ponder this question they may arrive at answers that propel them towards the growth they naturally seek.
Thanks for sharing, and thanks for watching!
Thanks for this! Revival and Awakening is my deep desire, but sometimes I settle for changes I can make (new efforts, changes, etc), but it is my heart that needs to change. Thanks again.
You're so welcome!
Loved this conversation, I loved the picture Al paints with his words as he talks about why buildings matter and the cathedrals of hope. Thanks so much for creating space for this conversation, it was wonderfully inspiring.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Wow! Great conversation. So powerful. Thanks Al and Carey.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Spiritual Awakening. Great conversation. Thank you for your programs.
So glad you enjoyed it - thanks for watching.
I agree and disagree with Pastor Gordon, but first, let me say how much I love your show, Carey - I watch all the time and never miss an episode! Thank you for the thoughtful conversations you facilitate. Second, with all due respect, I feel like Al Gordon is missing something important. I agree with him that a spiritual awakening is happening, but it goes far beyond the evangelical framework he operates in and describes. There is indeed a Christian spiritual awakening underway, but it’s beyond evangelical or conservative Protestantism. Yet, he keeps suggesting that’s where the “move of God” is happening, which contradicts the broader trends and actual statistics.
Pastor Gordon reminds me of a 16th & 17th century Catholic leader around the Council of Trent and during the Counter-Reformation, who was promoting that Catholicism was thriving, while completely missing the monumental shift happening in the Protestant Reformation. Catholicism, obviously, did just fine in its own spheres, especially in places like Italy, France, and Spain, but it couldn’t stop a new Christian Spirituality awakening in the birth of Protestantism. Similarly today, while evangelicalism may continue in its own way, Pastor Gordon seems to be missing where the real Christian Spiritual awakening is happening - what is a Neo-Reformation-unfolding today. And it’s not in evangelical doctrinal Christianity. Big Eva, like the Catholics of old, needs reforming.
So where is it happening? It’s emerging in Metamodern Christian Spirituality. People are leaving evangelical "orthodoxy" in droves, disillusioned by its doctrinal rigidity, exclusivity, moralism, and just plain weirdness in the 21st century. While Pastor Gordon may see growth in his church or others like it, this is no different from how Catholicism saw vitality in parts of Europe even as Luther and Calvin were leading transformative movements elsewhere. The deconstruction movement, today, has proven this shift is real, and now it’s evolving into something even deeper and beyond: a rise in Metamodern Christian Spirituality.
This new spirituality is more generous, loving, and inclusive. It’s kinder to science, more self-aware, and far less tethered to rigid doctrines, biblicism, or salvation-based dualities. Gone is the "get-saved-or-go-to-hell" narrative. Instead, it’s a Christianity that emphasizes greater love, inclusion, and theological openness-qualities that resonate far more with the complexities of the modern world, and actually reflect Christ's words on the New Testament.
Carey, I deeply appreciated your comment at around five minutes in: “If it is of God, let it flow.” That’s exactly right. As Christian spirituality enters its third millennium, it’s evolving beyond evangelicalism, and now evolving beyond deconstruction, and there will be no stopping it. Thank you for your incredible content and your kind, generous heart. Even when I see things differently, I always appreciate the way you host these important discussions.
Loved this
Hope it was helpful!
Revivial comes with reform and I cannot see how modern churches can handle the transformation. We are going back to living like the NT, abandoning our traditional church system and returning to a house based system that looks like a Christian form of the Greek and Roman Ekklesia. No more tithing, no motmee communion and no more titled leaders. A movement where agape is expressed as one people and these people will be functional Royal Priests and not trained to sit in pews.