Actually, the show's creators, Mike and Bryan, originally envisioned Toph as a typical buff guy (the one earthbending in the show's opening). It was the Head Writer: Aaron Ehasz, who thought that making Toph a 12 year old blind girl would be far more interesting. This was also the reason that the _Ember Island Players_ episode had the play portray Toph as a buff guy, as the play was basically the show mocking itself.
Well, in anime and similar story telling the most broken down person with disabilities are among the most powerful ones. Kinda expected cliché at this point. Martial artists are blind, bandages and patches are seals and what not >_
@@vincentgraymore whilst that’s true its almost always that “they have a killer reflex or god instincts” with the occasional “sealed away powers in said disabilities” Toph is unique because her blindness plays into her strengths instead of being a gimmick
Y'know that answers my question on which role my characters fit into. If you were curious, basically I stuck my power-house in the support class for obvious reasons.
Does this mean that Asta in Black Clover is a protagonist that's also a powerhouse? Yuno (the lancer): about to lose to Mars because his wind magic is at a massive disadvantage against Mars' mineral magic Asta: Saves Yuno in the nick of time using his anti-magic sword Yuno: I was just about to win Asta: What?! No, you weren't!
Stalling the impossibly strong bad guy so everyone can escape? Check Bringing the literal cavalry to save the day? Check Solving a political intrigue by whacking it with a stick? Check Everyone feels safer when he is around? Check He is a powerhouse in all important regards despite Gimli being the more stereotypical depiction of the concept
Gimli and legolas are Lancers for Aragon. They exist to give him something to bounce off of and interact with while he is doing Ancillary Main Protagonist stuff.
I love when the powerhouse is the opposite of what you think. For example: Toph is a small, blind, 12 year old girl yet is able to single handedly defeat armies all on her own
Another good example is Bart from Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency. She's a middle aged woman with little to no understanding of society, but if the solution is "kill it" she is the solution. Quite literally, as she is the universe's delete function.
Or Mob, from Mob Psycho 100. Quiet, kind, polite, soft-spoken and scrawny 14 year old boy who considers his godlike telekinesis lame because it would be cooler to have big muscles to impress his crush.
The way avatar handles their powerhouse is by giving her a weakness: If she isn't on the ground, or her opponent isn't, she can't fight them. This does limit what she can handle, meaning that cleverer solutions, or other members of the team, are needed.
@@Zunawe Her weakness is also a hidden strength. Yeah, she can't do much of anything on her own without something solid under her feet, but when she DOES, she's got perfect situational awareness. Her weakness is part of why she's the Powerhouse.
Which they used brilliantly in the finale. Where they need to get onto a blimp, she can launch them there, but doesn't know where _there_ is. Which has been rightfully pointed out as the conclusion to her 'learn to trust/rely on others' character-arc.
@@user-jn4sw3iw4h To add to her weakness also being her strength, it’s because she is blind that she’s the one to discover and invent metal bending. Other earthbenders wouldn’t rely on vibrations to feel the earth within the metal, but since Toph’s “sight” revolves entirely around vibrations, she’s the one to discover the secret.
This is why how she met (and lost to) Aang is so brilliant! Not only does it shows the dynamic difference between their elements and their impressive bending skills, it also highlights Toph's persona/disposition when faced with a fresh opponent.
It is an absolute crime that the example of "powerhouse being unable to be everywhere at once" was NOT TOPH holding up a sinking building while watching Aapa get taken by sandbenders.
@@nora5602 and Aang reaction males it even worse. His anger is understandable but directed at the wrong people who aren't really in a condition to take it
Powerhouse: “Hey y’all remember how this is a stealth mission?” Team: “Yeah..?” Powerhouse: “And we couldn’t bring our weapons because it’d be too conspicuous?” Team: “You didn’t…” Powerhouse: *Opening their comically large trench coat with Hello Kitty stickers* “I did!”
I highly recommend it. The place can be wacky and a little unrealistic, but when you accept it as part of the fiction of the world, you can appreciate the true charm of the show is the chemistry between the members of the crew.
I don't know why, but I can't imagine Red being an inch over 4'11". She kinda gives off (fantasy) dwarf vibes, smaller, but can wreck your shit. Of course I could be wrong and she's 6'7", my mind's eye is notoriously blind.
There's another Superman mini-speech from Justice League that further explains this: He is *intentionally* getting hit, because every hit he takes is one his teammates don't have to.
That last bit made me remember the Grrl Power webcomic, specifically the hero Achilles whose power is, and I quote, "Invincibility. Proper, aggravating invincibility." He almost never "wins" a fight, but he'll frequently physically and verbally aggravate the villain until they drop everything else to spend 15-30 seconds *specifically* burying him in the nearest available material, and he'll eventually dig himself out with either a comment about how he was the MVP or, when the fighting gets particularly intense while he's buried, a question about wtf he missed.
Vaguely reminds me of a character I recall being named Captain Man in one of those shows that's like a sitcom aimed at tweens. But it's hard to recall a ton of details. I just remember he's invincible and kind of a dick
I also love that she's a 'blind but uses other senses to compensate' character whom the writers always remember what she can and can't do. The other CHARACTERS on the other hand constantly forget that she's blind, usually with hilarious results. These are some of the funniest jokes in the show.
I love the fact that the usual issue with Toph isn't "can she handle it", but convincing her not to just absolutely demolish the problem first scene =).
Hot take from the opening narration. Big Guys are like Basses in a choir. You don't notice how much you need them until they're gone. They provide the steady foundation for everyone else to build off of. You might not hear them with your ears, but you feel them in your core.
As an actual Bass in an actual choir, THIS. We don't usually get the melody but you try getting that emotional kick without the low harmonies backing you up. It just doesn't work.
Obi-Wan is a hard character to pin down when you think about it. Sometimes he's a Leader, sometimes a Lancer, sometimes a Powerhouse, Occasionally the Smart guy. He changes roles continuously depending upon the situation. Ewan MacGregor killed that role though. One of the few good things about the prequels.
Would argue that in TCW Anakin is more of the designated power house. You don't send him to investigate or to do dimplomacy, you send him if you want to make things dead. Aggressive fighting style included. Meanwhile, Obi Wan is the master of defense. Depending on the opponent he's either stalling or trolling them into a weak position. And it usually works.
I like how when you say the defining out of combat trait is food IT STILL APPLIES TO ELLIOT Granted, it is making food, and not eating it, in the stereotypical barbarian sense, but you are absolutely right about it.
Oh man I just love the fact that Elliot has more than one thing and it's always a nice surprise when his non-combat skills are the key to a plan. And honestly Hardison eating Elliot's sandwich is one of the funniest scenes of television I've ever seen.
@@TimdeVisser86 I personally hated the episode because I don't like the office (for reasons I will not get into) but I loved the arc of Hardison eating the sandwich.
*hits* Powerhouse: "Are you a problem!?" Enemy: "I will kill everyone you love!" *hits* Powerhouse: "Are you a problem!?" Enemy: "Fuck you!" *hits harder* Powerhouse: "Are you a problem!?" Enemy: "Ah, stop it!" *Hits again* Powerhouse: "Are you a problem!?" Enemy: "N-, No" *Powerhouse grabs the enemy by the head with both hands and looks him/her deep in the eyes* Powerhouse: "What are you?" Enemy: ".........I'm an idiot sandwich"
It works exceptionally well for Gandalf and LOTR's soft magic system, with Magical LOTR characters having a rather loosely defined but narratively established powerful characters.
@@thecharmingone3931 He would also be the physical powerhouse if he went that route. Like he smack people with his staff more than actually using it for magic.
I didn't expect anyone to know what Leverage was. Holy fuck. I thought that was just a thing I watched because I grew up without cable and had no friends...
@@deadersurvival4716 IMDb TV. I'm in Canada, so I don't know where or when I'll be able to view it, but if you're American, you should be fine. I'm not sure exactly WHEN it's coming back, but there's a trailer.
@@jahimalnar7978 Very well, watch closely, for one day you shall tell your grandchildren of the day you saw the great Corvax in action. Now men, group up, and HIT IT TILL IT DIES
''There was a time I got caught in a reactor crawlspace when a coolant pipe blew, and that coolant is radioactive as fuck, hits the open air, and it vaporizes just like that. You get it on your skin, it ain’t good, but it washes off mostly, you'll survive. You breathe it in, though, you get those radioactive particles down in your lungs where you can’t get ’em out, that pretty much melts you from the inside, point is, I learned some things about myself. I learned that I could hold my breath for almost two minutes while engaging in physical stressful activity, so… you have to ask yourself, how much damage do you think I could do to you in two minutes before the knockout gas gets to me? ‘Cause I’m betting it’s a lot.'' -A Powerhouse named Amos
@@uncroppedsoop it's a really good science fiction series. The books are great (9 book series was just finished last year). The tv show is ok (great cast, some really great scenes).
And "Infinity War" did the Powerhouse storyline exactly as Red described. Show PH get destroyed in the beginning to establish enemy threat (first sight of Thor is him defeated). Rest of cast struggles with enemy until PH returns (Wakanda fight) and PH only loses fight by holding back ("you should have went for the head").
But imo Marvel made the mistake Red just mentioned. They worfed Thor and Hulk repeatedly to keep introducing new threats. Phase 3 was literally just that. Thor gets his ass kicked by Hela, Ragnorak and Thanos and so does Hulk. Hulk even gets beat up by Thor to cement Thor as the big baddy. Then they solve the issue of Thor being too strong by making him a joke in Endgame
@@huzaifa8665 exactly! And that is why personally I don't like "the strongest hero alive" storylines, like Superman or Goku, for example. I like the characters themselves, but every storyline you always have to "Worf" them to make any story suspenseful. My favorite heroes are Batman and Spiderman. They have great ability but almost everyone of their villains can realistically beat them if they are not careful. But many others, unlike me, like those super powerful characters. So Marvel will keep giving us Thor, Hulk, Dr Strange, Captain Marvel, now Scarlet Witch, who are so powerful you always have to ask, "why didn't they do this and that would solve the problem immediately?"
@@harrogeorge7878 Well, in that situation, they would’ve either been panicking that they’d met someone who could kill them, or panicking that they might be falling in love. 😂
"The powerhouse is usually the one who gets hit first to establish how powerful the villan is" Me: I wonder if they will bring up Worf... "This is also known as the Worf effect" lol.....
Red hit it on the head by saying that you have to establish that the powerhouse is tough first. That’s why it’s called The Worf Effect because ST:NG failed that. They *told* the audience how tough and dangerous Worf was, but they never *showed* us before the first time they had him one-shotted out cold.
I love how Toph being the Big Guy/Powerhouse is countered by how she’s the youngest and tiniest member of the Gaang. And yes, I know she was originally supposed to be an Actual Big Guy, but I am as glad as everyone else that this was changed.
in agent of shields it is the middleaged female pilot who does not want to be part of the action and is literaly called the chavellary and in NCIS its the teams token girl, if someone needs to be beaten up, she gets to play and the boys lay back and watch ^^
Reminds me of All might from mha whos basically built up to be the "Its ok, im here now" person while basically being physical combat exclusive. Though he also seems to work as a protagonist to a degree
All Might isn't the Powerhouse in MHA, Todoroki is. Deku is Hero, Bakugo is the Lancer, Todoroki is the Powerhouse, Uraraka is the Heart (kinda, Deku's kinda also the heart), and Yaoyurozu is the Smart Guy. All Might sits sort of outside the context of this paradigm, with him being the Mentor. Todoroki is the powerhouse because although Deku is powerful, he's also inconsistent with his Quirk usually wrecking his shit if he uses it at full power. Bakugo isn't because he's mentally fragile, prone to strategic errors and myopia despite being a combat monster. With Todoroki, if your plan doesn't have an answer for "Suddenly incased in a mountain of ice", you need to scrap the plan.
@@austinowings4904 I would have thought Deku was the smart guy who came up with the plan to play everyone together here, at least in the earlier seasons in the manga it kinda gets power creeped a bit.
@@austinowings4904 All-Might was the powerhouse of his generation. MHA is great because it is a sort of follow up to a classic Shonen Action series. All-Might was the protagonist in his time, Endeavor was the lancer etc. You are right that Todoroki is the powerhouse of the 1A generation, with Bakugo as lancer due to his rivalry being his drive etc.
I feel like Red is starting to realize that literally any trope talk thumbnail with an AtlA character in it is guaranteed to elicit a primal urge to click out of me.
“Aww see you made two mistakes bro. First, you flashed that fake ass FBI badge at me, and second...you spilled his coffee.” Later - “Where’s Elliot?” “He had to go home and change his shirt. He got some coffee on it...some blood...some teeth...”
Here's an idea: the character starts out as the team powerhouse, but as the story progresses, they get Worfed more & more frequently as the foes the team comes up against get more powerful, as well as their comrades growing stronger along the way to the point where the former powerhouse has a full on identity crisis as they realize they're no longer the strong one on the team.
He may be from a game as opposed to a book or show, but Reyn from Xenoblade 1 more or less embodies this. Starts out as the big protecter of the team but at the start of the final act, he starts to have an internal crisis over the fact that the people he was once meant to protect no longer NEED to be protected, and he may even be more vulnerable than they are - particularly the main character. It’s handled pretty damn well through a long one on one talk with another character - that essentially boils down to “they no longer need someone to protect them from harm; they need an ally to stand by their side. To fight alongside.” Real good shit.
You're describing my shadowrun character. he's a big orc and an excellent fighter, but he almost never gets to show his stuff. he makes more damage than anyone else on the team, but the ki-adept often is fast enough to use some non-lethal ammo and knock out the oponent, before i get to do anything. we only had one scene where my char got to shine and that was when we were fighting ghouls in the sewer and even than we had only one combat turn before some guy showed up and called the ghouls back. i was itching for more fighting and couldn't get it. in the beginning we had to fight more often, but now our Mage and the Decker handle most of the stuff. and i'm starting to rant so better to wrap this up. in short: if you play an rpg, be aware that the powerhouse often gets outpaced when the group progresses; if you are a dm, make sure that your powerhouse gets the fighting they need to stay happy.
I've always noticed that when the big guy dies it means very bad things for the rest of the cast. He protects everyone and if he is ever taken out, everyone suffers.
something different happens if a party member dies powerhouse dies: group loses allot of power and usually ends up losing to big bad the heart dies: the group splits up and goes in a darker path the brains dies: group makes a dumb plan that gets them killed the lancer dies: actually the group usually can hold on but they are severly weaker the leader dies: the group gets onorganised and either dies to the big bad or splits up
Go follow Seanan Mcguire on Twitter. She hasn't talked about it in a while, but it's her favorite show and she'd probably gush about it in a 100 tweet thread if you gave her half a chance. (I like Leverage too, btw but I don't have a social media following)
Sailor Jupiter is probably my favorite powerhouse in media. Strong enough to toss monsters over her head in civilian form, but a gentle sweetheart who loves to bake just as much as she loves to fight. There's just something so special about a tough tanky girl in that kind of costume too, it just works so well to juxtapose the skills and personality.
I recall and interview of Peta Wilson in which she mentioned meeting Vladimir Putin while promoting Nikita where he mentioned that he could tell where she was trained by how she held a sniper rifle. She said, due to that, he was the scariest guy she'd ever met (quite something for an army brat).
Everyone were smart guys on the team, but they are all various flavors. He is the grizzled veteran type where his knowledge about everything under the sun comes from him being stabbed or shot by everything under the sun Hardison is a classical Mage/Infodump style smart guy, where his knowledge of things comes from an inhuman ability to research and formulate anything he puts his mind to. Nate was a Mastermind/Strategist smart guy, because he is the leader and smart guy at the same time. He frequently played chess against his opponents, in one episode literally. Sophie was the Team Face Smart guy, who could act as the absolute force of getting people out of trouble with her intimate knowledge of human psyches. Parker was a smart guy in a very real sense in that whatever she actively tries at, she will get it down to a scary science, has a photographic memory (drew a sketch of a hitman who was trying to assassinate a mark) and has knowledge of security better than anyone else on the planet. There is a reason why when she says her name (or it is found in her files) that she is treated as the living legend. (S1, E1, Nate says "Parker, you have parker"; In the Girls Night Out Job S4, a thief and spy asks what even is her name, and she says it, and he cannot comprehend that it is in fact, her. Oh, and she is capable of complex mathematics in almost no time, and blew up a house when she was like, 5. If there was ever a line between Crazy and Genius, she probably fastened it to one of her rigs and uses it to skydive with. Everyone on the team has some level of smart guy-ness to them, but as far as subtropes specifically they almost never overlap unless it is explicitly the point of the episode that it isn't their kind of smart-guyness. (All of the tropes of smart guys I have listed here were mentioned in the smart guy episode too, I just didn't use the exact names because I prefer mine)
Elliot is my favorite "Leverage" character because the more you watch the show the more you realize just how freaking weird he is. Like, Parker is designated as the "weirdo" character, but Elliot just has so many different hobbies, and mysterious character traits and background that keep coming more and more to the surface. It's so WILD. I love him.
Right?? Some of my favorite moments are: *Elliot:* Those guys are (insert random type of military/mercenary group here) *Hardison:* How the hell do you know that *Elliot:* It's the way they walk (or their clothing, hairstyle, etc.) *Hardison:* ???? *Elliot:* IT'S A VERY DISTINCT WALK
Anytime they need any bit of random information Elliot just pipes up and gives it to them. I love it. And it always ends with Hardison staring at him like he has 3 heads and the line "Pay attention, Hardison!"
Not to mention how wholesome he is when interacting with people he could see as family (ex: kidnapped little girl and old man working at "not walmart" )
Red: ...and Toph hits things with rocks. Katara: see Toph, thats the real you you're seeing on stage. Toph: Are you kidding me! I wouldn't say it any other way. Edit: LEVERAGE, I LOVE THAT SHOW! I CANT EVEN COUNT HOW MANY TIMES IVE WATCHED IT THROUGH! HECK YEAH! Here's hoping the alleged sequel series in the works doesn't suck.
I had no idea a sequel was in the works! I Googled it and found out that the original series is on IMDb TV (free, ad-supported streaming service I previously didn't know about) and the sequel will be on there as well. Also, for anyone wondering, it isn't a direct sequel from the sound of it, more of a reboot with 4/5 members of the original cast because the dude that played the mastermind was accused of sexual assault. It has a lot of the original creative team behind it though!
Theoretically, you can make your powerhouse be shown as an important character by taking him out for a while, and let your team for the next few tasks really struggle to even match the antagonists. It would also be a good time to make your antagonists show why they are a threat. And the plot for the next few chapters is basically getting your powerhouse back because we are losing.
EMH did that a few times, the one that really sticks out is Season One when the Avengers went up against Ultron. Ultron apparently kills Thor and they are barely able to even keep him busy while Ant-Man plays smart guy with his bot
I'd prefer it if instead of taking them out you remove them otherwise, whether it's a different problem or they just aren't there at the start of the fight
In an episode of Konosuba, an adventurer group gets jealous of Kazuma for being in a team of girls who are powerful enough to carry him through most threats. He gets really mad about that insinuation and dares their leader to swap teams with him for 1 week. During that week, Kazuma is probably the most successful and heroic and happy he’s ever been, and at the end they meet up and find out Kazuma’s old team is in shambles, with the leader pleading to be returned to a team of non-dysfunctional people while his former teammates are asking Kazuma to stay for his prowess. In the end, the old team compositions are restored and the other group learns to respect Kazuma for putting up with his in reality very bad teammates
@Freerefill It's actually the tropiest show ever if you take a deep look and really think about it, but you really don't notice generally, because all the tropes are so masterfully executed that you don't mind.
ironcailly the best display of the worf effect while also giving baddass points to the big guy power house was vegeta versus manjin buu at the end of Z buu has been proven he is stronger than goku and vegeta so vegeta needs to earn the time for them to gather the energy for the genkidama and at that point vegeta had already gotten the living crap out of his soul beaten out (literally). so he just needing to recieve the beating of his life if only to get them time was a nice show of strenght and kinda his karma for what he pulled at the beginning of the arc that caused buu to emerge in first place
But isn't Vegeta the Lancer of the team? DBZ is confuding like that... Goku should count as the leader since he is the MC of the show but he is also most certainly the heart. Piccolo could also be the lancer but i'd rather call him the brain guy and people like adult Trunks and Roshi are also there and fill roles but those roles are always dependent on what the team comp is at the time. There are too many people to give everyone only one single role.
I always attributed the Worf Effect to Gohan. Hence being Gohan'd... Always built up to be the biggest threat until he's made irrelevant by plot or bad writing.
@@TheHKZero Or, more recently, being Konohamaru'd. I enjoy the Boruto anime, but they really have dropped the ball when it comes to the Konohamaru character. This guy took out a Pain as a kid in Naruto Shippuden, and yet he hasn't had a single victory in Boruto against anything that wasn't fodder, and he just keeps getting beating up to make the arc villains seem stronger.
@@foldabotZ In my opinion, at it's best, A:EMH was at least as good as JLU, though not quite as good as JL Season 2. If it had more time to grow and become it's own thing, I fully think it could have gotten there.
@@mr.preston1632 no it doesn't. Saitama is omnipotent within the story because he cannot be defeated. He is not, however, particularly smart or observant. The writer maneuvers Saitama out of the way whenever a new arc starts, shunting him into a B-Plot that converges with the A-Plot towards the end of the Arc. Ironically enough you can see this reflected most simply in the fighting game based on the anime; Saitama is a playable character in this fighting game and is completely immune to damage from other characters, and one-punches any other fighter. However, you can only use Saitama after a certain amount of time has passed, and you must fight off your opponent while you wait for him to arrive at the battle. This wait for Saitama happens all the time throughout the show; a new threat appears, kicks the shit out of all the heroes, but the one man who could solve the problem is nowhere to be found. The heroes manage to push through their limits and win what they think is a major victory, while Saitama obliterates the true threat behind the scenes. One Punch Man relies on narrative and character dynamics to entertain the readers. True there are lot's of cool fight scenes and stuff, but they aren't really the focus, because with a character who can beat any physical opponent, fight scenes can't be the focus. The audience instead watches and listens to characters talk about the world they live in, recite their tragic backstories, and interact with one another. When a villain starts getting too powerful, they push him off the stage in a dark corner, where Saitama can destroy him without revealing to the wider world that he is an unstoppable force.
I've noticed that powerhouses usually take on the parent/oldest sibling trope a lot. Where they have simplistic ways to approach a problem, but they know its effective and understand everyone's roles. Which is why they are also protective of their teams and feel it is there responsibility to care for everyone. Gildarts from Fairy Tail totally fits the powerhouse trope, as well as the father figure for these young wizards(yeah I know, I know, I've watched the whole thing) Also the husband character from Train to Busan, who is about to be a father so he fits the role quite well.
Elliot Spencer also, to the point where the directors would sometimes specifically tell Christian Kane to act like an older sibling to Parker and Hardison.
I haven’t finished fairy tail but I’d argue Erza is more of a powerhouse, as she is around more, and the author constantly has to think of reasons for her to be able to help
Reminds me of that guy in animated Sinbad where he just keeps putting his weapons on the counter until the main characters advanced the plot in a party and dragged him out after they're done.
It was really bad in the Justice League cartoons though, the bad guys usually wouldn't know who anyone was, so they had no in-universe reason to target Superman. Just, "Let's shoot one off these dudes to make an example... eh, how 'bout the red-and-blue one?" And it's not like he would be talking back or resisting at the time, there's just a line of seven superheroes or so an every villain always chose Superman because the writers got off on emasculating him or something. Or maybe it was because he literally could solve every problem by himself (Clark has lots more skills than hitting things when it's his own show), and they have to remind everyone that this isn't the real Superman, it's the one from the N64 game with "Kryptonite fog" everywhere, who's weak against everything.
@@Wendy_O._Koopa to be fair, it’s usually because Superman is the first to rush them, even more than Hawkgirl though that’s probably just because he’s faster than her.
@@dementedvillian Canonically, Sandy can beat both Wukong and Pigsy combined... but that's only if they're underwater. On dry land, he's at disadvantage against either of them. The power level here is pretty complicated and specific.
YAY, LOVE FOR LEVERAGE! my favorite "powerhouse" Episode was the one where Elliot reveals that he is the one who made that plan all along, and that he actually is incredibly intelligent. He just "plays" the big dumb brute for two reasons: 1. He doesnt want to step on anybody's toes, and 2. it makes people underestimate him. showing, like you said, even he himself realized a long time ago that not every situation requires a "Bigger Hammer"
I forget what episode did he take over as the leader? I know Hardison had a try at it a few times (to varying degrees of success) but I don't remember Elliot doing that. I know on occasion he will see an obvious answer to a simple problem and absolutely confound someone on the team (earliest example I know is the second episode where Hardison tried to hack a camera but he just picked up a rock and fucking chucked it at the camera, and even in that episode he came through with an even funnier solution where he said so many words that they tricked a voice lock with what amounts to appetizers.) I have seen him absolutely double down when it is down to the wire, pulling out whatever skill he needs, but I don't recall him making the plan.
@@gingerinajacket8519 In the episode where Nate Ford's ex-wife gets framed for the theft of the fabergé egg, Eliot puts his "extraction specialist" training to good use by putting together the plan to rescue Nate/Maggie from their captor while tricking said captor into thinking the fabergé egg is being handed over to him via elevator. There's hostage negotiations and a bomb involved. Eliot's plan goes off without a hitch and the day is saved. Basically it's one of the few times his special forces/operator training beyond "hitting stuff real good" gets highlighted.
I actually don't really remember him playing the big dumb brute. On his normal interactions he displays average intelligence and education. I don't remember him pretending to be an oaf (unless of course when he was playing a role for a grift). Thing is also, he has his expertise, like the others. Nate and Sophie know how criminal subcultures and big companies think, Hardison knows tech stuff, Parker knows security systems and Spencer's trade is recognizing military MO, the sound specific weapons make and that these guys where in the SAS based on how they walk.
@@wjzav1971 It's not that he necessarily "play dumb", he's quiet and lets people make assumptions about him, and since he's quiet that assumption is usually that he's not smart enough to keep up with everyone else, which is only true if it's related to computers
Elliot is more Powerhouse than Big Guy specifically because he also has a well-rounded secondary skill set that allows him to support any of the other characters as well as defending them. He can also _replace_ anyone but Hardison in a pinch, being able to act, pickpocket, seduce, grift, and outthink well enough to get the job done.
I have found my people! Leverage is quite arguably my favorite show of all time. The heists are over-the-top and unrealistic at times, but once you accept that, the chemistry between the members of the crew are absolutely fantastic.
Funnily enough, Fullmetal Alchemist somewhat subverts this trope. Of course Major Armstrong is absolutely a powerful Alchemist and a very capable fighter, but the show often goes out of its way to show how much of a softie he really is despite his muscle-man appearance. He may be one of the strongest in terms of physical strength, but at the same time he almost always ends up holding back to his own detriment. Though in I way I feel this subversion actually makes him a better character than if they made him a complete powerhouse fitting to his archetype. In some ways I feel like Colonel Mustang has traces of this trope, as nearly every time the anime actually lets him fight it's almost always completely one-sided. He is very much hindered by his weakness to water, which really is simply meant to be a mechanism to keep him from being completely overpowered. If the anime let him do his thing more often, a lot of the fights and conflicts would have been trivial. That being said, he still has way more leader qualities, which is absolutely fine. I love how Fullmetal Alchemist doesn't fully adhere to tropes, only using them when convenient or when it makes the experience better.
It's actually a really good show, my brother is so obsessed that he's watched all the way through multiple times, the thief is my favorite character personally, she's the 1 that told him to get over it
The Leverage crew sort of have a family dynamic - Nate and Sophie are the parents, Eliot is the oldest kid, and Hardison and Parker are the younger kids. Eliot will squabble with his 'siblings', but he would also die to protect them. "Nobody throws Hardison off a roof... except maybe me."
the funny thing, it is the nerd/hacker, that started the animosety with the cool guy, not the other way around. Like with his asking: "what are you even good for" . . .
YES! Leverage is the best example of how Tropes are not bad! They’re tools. The whole show is chock full of tropes and cliches, from the many gambits they run, the traditional five man band, and even the characters’ personalities, but it’s so well written that it just makes the characters even more badass! It’s such a good show everyone watch it!
One of the biggest things that sticks in my craw about How Media Analysis, Criticism, and Discourse Behaves In Our Modern Age(tm) is people saying tropes are bad, or denying that a trope even IS a trope because tropes are by default somehow bad. They're not. Spending time on TVTropes shows you that tropes aren't bad just by virtue of being a trope. There are bad tropes, yes, but so many of them are simply recurring things that happen in storytelling, and mostrun the gamut from common to fine to good to inject more of this into my veins. (The single biggest thing that sticks in my craw is the expanding, inane definition of "plot hole" that seemingly no longer actually encompasses plot holes but instead just nitpicky things the viewer doesn't like and CALLS plot holes)
@@TheLordofMetroids I just looked this up because someone else in the comments was asking. Apparently, it's on Amazon Prime by way of IMDB TV. Edit: it may also be on Hulu? I haven't checked but someone else in the comments mentioned it.
I feel like she would lampshade every single trope and have the characters break the fourth wall with jokes about storytelling. Like the order of the stick, but in novel format
leverage is my favorite show no one talks about and im so happy you used elliot as an example bc he fits this roll so perfectly, its a very distinctive role
This is why Jotaro is one if my favorite powerhouses. As soon as he starts punching, the fight is usually already won, but the way enemy stands interact with his force him to overcome different obstacles before he can get physical.
@@autisticturtle1849 Just about every enemy in Part 4 is terrified of Jotaro. Akira Otoishi even tells Josuke that he's doing every thing in his power to *avoid* fighting him.
Honestly this is a strength of Jojo's as a whole imho. Its not about power levels (which we all know are bullshit) its about finding an opening in an opponent's seemingly invulnerable defenses (or getting past their horrific offense) and jamming your fist straight through that vulnerability.
Eliot is best character on Leverage! Basically the group dad and has an AMAZING singing voice!!! Hes like a main character from an edgier show was on vacation and decided to hang with a bunch of thieves for a while!
my favorite episode is "a fiddle game" because of the focus on him not just being "a hitter". i also love the "chef" episode because of the dynamic between parker and Elliot.
The actor has a character with an insane arc on the Buffy spin-off Angel. He goes from top (ish) baddy to vengeful nemesis to redemption to you know what, he's in maybe 25 episodes out of the entire four-year run, and in each one he manages to steal the show.
Alright that description seals the deal I'm watching the show now. Once red said found family and robin hood I was interest but the comment section has sold me
0:49 I really like that the characters Red drew back in her five band man video are still here and show up every now and then Also this illustration is just cute that’s it 😊
I’m honestly shocked Sun Wukong wasn’t mentioned immediately, he fits this pretty perfectly. Edit: Pigsy could be considered the powerhouse, but a big point of the powerhouse is being reliable (hence the Thor vs Hulk segment in the video), so I thought Wukong would fit better since Pigsy isn’t exactly know for being reliable. Then again, Sandy would be a pretty good fit for the big guy too! Very reliable but not so nuanced.
"they are ex brittish SAS" "how do you know?" "its the ties they wear" "what?" favorite part about him. how he know the quirks of so many different armed forces lol
One of my favorite versions of this *Elliot walks into room with white noise being played* " Who tapped into the government satellite?" "How can you tell it's a government satellite?" "It's a very distinctive noise."
Franky from One Piece is one of my favorite powerhouses. He is a literal cyborg with lasers, guns, rockets, a fist launcher, a button to change his hairstyle, and a flamethrower. He also has tanks, robot suits, and other neat stuff when he's not protecting the ship he's beating hordes of goons with the crew, he holds back all his powerful stuff and instead chooses to show off with his cool stuff. He also likes to strike a pose and say "SUUPERR!!" whenever the situation calls for showing off
I cannot tell you how I excited I was to see you mention Leverage!!! It's such an amazing show and Elliot is a fantastic character. One of my favorite stories about the actor, Christian Kane, comes from the hockey episode. As soon as we (the show runners) knew we were doing this episode, we gave Kane a call. “We need you to play hockey and fight on the ice.” “When’s it shoot?” “Third episode.” “(beat) No problem.” Kane flew up to Portland a month early, got a coach, and there he is - annoying me by doing his stunts in a whole new environment. Joy. … Yeah, that’s Kane doing all his own damn skating and fighting.
@@chowyee5049 I tried that show. He was decent, but the plot was a proprietary blend of shaky, generic, and bland. I also hated every single romance plot they introduced. The worldbuilding was also... underwhelming, to say the least. No special feel to it.
A really good example outside of combat is Nishinoya from Haikyuu which is a show about volleyball. See Nishinoya is super awesome but he plays libero, meaning that he only plays defense and thus can't actually score the winning point for them, and he's also constantly being subbed out, again as a part of his position. So in order to raise the stakes the author just makes the final point on a rotation where Nishinoya isn't present so now they can't rely on him to just bail them out and he almost never needs to stop being cool. Plus since it's volleyball he doesn't get knocked out or fake out killed or anything. If they want to convey someone is tough then they'll show Nishinoya not being able to receive them *sometimes*. He can actually struggle a lot and still get awesome moments where he shows his reliability
Noya and Daichi are definitely the powerhouses of the team. Daichi maybe even moreso since Noya plays volleyball for his friends, quit volleyball for Asahi, and is sometimes swapped out in important moments, Daichi is almost always on the field and when he's not the team falls apart
I love how in leverage, Eliot is also an incredibly skilled Chef, incredibly educated about fashion, a skilled singer (the actor actually has his own separate country music career, my dad met him on a plane to Nashville once), an emotionally intelligent romantic partner, and a skilled horseman. Writing the mook-smasher as a well rounded and multi-disciplinary bon-vivant is great, because it allows them to believably multiclass for stories with less requisite mook smashing
The same could be said of my favourite powerhouse character - Domovoi Butler in the Artemis Fowl series. I loved that series as a kid. The hero duo of genius but fragile Artemis and the complex powerhouse Butler was brilliant.
Idea for the next Trope Talk episode: Rules/Internal logic, talk about how some shows have ironclad rules while others have more nebulous ones, Or how the audience feels cheated when a story breaks its own internal logic
I'm usually extremely easy to entertain and, depending on how it's played, stories breaking their own internal logic is among the few things that can make me stop watching/reading something. Play it for laughs, or be self aware enough to acknowledge it? I'll usually let that one slide. Mangling your story by throwing something totally random into it, and then expect me to accept it? Get the fuck outta here.
Saitama is one of my favourite powerhouse characters ever, in part because his reasoning for not just solving every problem immediately is that he's canonically a lazy bastard (and we love him for it)
Saitama's other reason for not solving every problem is that nobody knows to ask Saitama for help when there's a world ending threat. He only solves a problem if it happens within earshot.
I like how Worf got to grow more as a character in DS9, and they also explain in the DS9 Risa episode (possibly retconing from NG) that Worf has also been restraining himself the whole time. The episode where Worf has the fight a gauntlet of Jemhadar is also a great character moment for him.
I would like to see some variation of episodes where Worf gets knocked out first, not to show “oh look - these bad guys are bad news” but because Worf (as head of security) sees the bad guys doing their bad guy stuff, and they knock him down in order to keep him from raising the alarm. A case of knocking out security, instead of “taking out the big guy”
Leverage is so good! I'm so glad someone is finally mentioning it! There's an episode where the entire conflict is a chef stole a recipe and the way they take him down is by call the US Fish and Wildlife service because he's smuggling truffles, it's great
@@daveinspiration7333 soon!!! They just finished filming the reboot. They got %80 of the main cast back and all the old writers and show runners this is going to be f****** fantastic.
I loved that show. I might binge it again just from being reminded of it. P.S. that scene she refers to where Elliot uses a gun the first time is on par with Cap using Mjolnir...it was that epic!
I have been using this show to explain or as examples for soo many tropetalks. It's been a while since I watched it but I LOVE this show. Glad Red is watching it.
As a massive fan of Leverage, how didn’t I realize that Elliot was the *perfect* counter to The Worf Effect...wow... Also, that show is superb, and I’m happy to see it get mentioned because *oh my god it’s so gooooddddd*
For real this is a great show! I binged the whole thing a few years ago (before that I had seen a few episodes here and there as it was airing on TV) and was way more drawn into it than I ever expected.
I like it because they grew as characters. They totally could have done the whole "reset to status quo by the end of the episode" thing like many TV series, but they didn't. They had character growth that was consistent and made sense. For the most part anyways.
How about a video on the "I don't like working with you, but I have to" trope, where the good guys and the bad guys have to work together to beat a common enemy?
Of the many reasons to love Eliot Spencer, I love the fact that he would love being called better than Worf. I'm picturing him and Hardison watching this, Hardison being very grumpy about it, and them getting into a huge snarky argument about it.
I mean, for essay writing, both Red and Blue have basically been doing a NaNoWriMo per month consistently for the last five years, on top of all their other projects (the most notable is, of course, Philosophy )
It’s kinda cool how the role of the powerhouse can switch from character to character throughout the course of a series. The example that comes to mind for me is how in the beginning of Fairy Tail (the anime and manga series) Erza starts out as the powerhouse of the group, but over time we start to see Natsu take out characters that beat her one-on-one until eventually, she becomes more like a third fiddle to both Natsu and Gray. However despite being surpassed by them, her big sister-like role in the groups dynamic means that instead of going through a crisis about her relative lack of power, she actually ends up becoming proud of how far they’ve come. But we spend the first couple seasons waiting for her to show up as the powerhouse whenever things go wrong, but eventually we see a shift where her ability to protect her friends long enough for them to grow, resulted in her being sidelined, essentially passing on the torch in the process.
And she never stops being important. Even as Natsu becomes a Time-Eating fire demon and Gray conjures literally Absolute Zero Ice, she’ll still catch both of their attacks with her bare hands and tell them off for being idiots.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
"The Powerhouse is..."
My Brain: " The Mitochondria of the cell"
This is the one thing school has successfully distilled into us
@@an8strengthkobold360 and a strong distain for standardized tests
BEST. COMMENT.
The Teacher: “My work here is done.”
my bio teacher absolutely despised that phrase because its not even entirely true
So they're the essence of that vine that goes:
"I wish Ryan was here."
"Hey guys!"
"Ryan!"
Dang. It’s true
Bingo bongo
Smh too bad in part 2 the power house is the main character
@@scion513 Hey Ryan
@@scion513 Hello there Ryan
Avatar Creators: We need a Powerhouse character who can beat up anybody..
Also Avatar Creators: How about a 12 year old blind girl?
Actually, the show's creators, Mike and Bryan, originally envisioned Toph as a typical buff guy (the one earthbending in the show's opening). It was the Head Writer: Aaron Ehasz, who thought that making Toph a 12 year old blind girl would be far more interesting.
This was also the reason that the _Ember Island Players_ episode had the play portray Toph as a buff guy, as the play was basically the show mocking itself.
@@matthewmuir8884 Literally the best decision in the history of animation was made when Aaron Ehasz said "You know what'd be great..."
@@alexandrapedersen829 “...how about we get a blind girl to do the job, that’d be pretty unique, right?”
Well, in anime and similar story telling the most broken down person with disabilities are among the most powerful ones. Kinda expected cliché at this point. Martial artists are blind, bandages and patches are seals and what not >_
@@vincentgraymore whilst that’s true its almost always that “they have a killer reflex or god instincts” with the occasional “sealed away powers in said disabilities” Toph is unique because her blindness plays into her strengths instead of being a gimmick
I absolutely love how in One Piece, Zoro's constant state of decommission 90% of the time is because he can't find his way to the fight lmfao
Yes it's like the perfect way to put him out of commission without making us think he's weak in fact it even gives him more character
Opposite of a powerhouse.... so a sourhouse? Powerlesshouse?
Good to see i'm not the only one that waits for red to mention one piece in every trope talk until i remember she didnt watch it
@@brittlekneesmgee3674 not as perfect as luffy casually getting eaten by a snake to stall him from fighting enel
So is Luffy... he is super reliable in a fight but he has character traits outside of his skills such as being gullible lol
Powerhouse: saves the Lancer just in the nick of time
Lancer: I had that.
Powerhouse: Sure you did
Y'know that answers my question on which role my characters fit into.
If you were curious, basically I stuck my power-house in the support class for obvious reasons.
Toph: *Saves Sokka.*
Sokka: _I had that!_
Toph: _Sure you did._
@@halodragonmaster This is just a repost of the original comment, word for word, i see no difference.
SUPERMAN AND BATMAN
Does this mean that Asta in Black Clover is a protagonist that's also a powerhouse?
Yuno (the lancer): about to lose to Mars because his wind magic is at a massive disadvantage against Mars' mineral magic
Asta: Saves Yuno in the nick of time using his anti-magic sword
Yuno: I was just about to win
Asta: What?! No, you weren't!
“The powerhouse is the one whose appearance usually signals a positive change in the situation”
G-Gandalf?
Stalling the impossibly strong bad guy so everyone can escape? Check
Bringing the literal cavalry to save the day? Check
Solving a political intrigue by whacking it with a stick? Check
Everyone feels safer when he is around? Check
He is a powerhouse in all important regards despite Gimli being the more stereotypical depiction of the concept
Gimli and legolas are Lancers for Aragon. They exist to give him something to bounce off of and interact with while he is doing Ancillary Main Protagonist stuff.
@@TheDownrankTrain gimli and legolas are lancers to each other while aragon is the smart guy
this is exactly what I thought of 😂😂
@@diobrando9842 this is the best take 😂
I love when the powerhouse is the opposite of what you think. For example:
Toph is a small, blind, 12 year old girl yet is able to single handedly defeat armies all on her own
Yeeeees! I am absolutely *in love* with character designs that feel misleading at first sight
Another good example is Bart from Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency. She's a middle aged woman with little to no understanding of society, but if the solution is "kill it" she is the solution. Quite literally, as she is the universe's delete function.
@@maggienhan8725 first sight huh....
@@am5ters504 I don't see what you mean ....
Or Mob, from Mob Psycho 100. Quiet, kind, polite, soft-spoken and scrawny 14 year old boy who considers his godlike telekinesis lame because it would be cooler to have big muscles to impress his crush.
The way avatar handles their powerhouse is by giving her a weakness: If she isn't on the ground, or her opponent isn't, she can't fight them. This does limit what she can handle, meaning that cleverer solutions, or other members of the team, are needed.
@@Zunawe Her weakness is also a hidden strength. Yeah, she can't do much of anything on her own without something solid under her feet, but when she DOES, she's got perfect situational awareness. Her weakness is part of why she's the Powerhouse.
Which they used brilliantly in the finale.
Where they need to get onto a blimp, she can launch them there, but doesn't know where _there_ is.
Which has been rightfully pointed out as the conclusion to her 'learn to trust/rely on others' character-arc.
@@user-jn4sw3iw4h
To add to her weakness also being her strength, it’s because she is blind that she’s the one to discover and invent metal bending. Other earthbenders wouldn’t rely on vibrations to feel the earth within the metal, but since Toph’s “sight” revolves entirely around vibrations, she’s the one to discover the secret.
can’t toph feel metal/earth that’s in the air? i feel like i remember that being a thing in a couple eps
This is why how she met (and lost to) Aang is so brilliant! Not only does it shows the dynamic difference between their elements and their impressive bending skills, it also highlights Toph's persona/disposition when faced with a fresh opponent.
When the Powerhouse is also the Heart, that's the perfect character.
Yeah we call it a main character. (with plot armor)
Groot
Yes. Just yes
Mirajane Strauss from Fairy Tail
You. You get it.
This series is a powerhouse
A mitochondria?
@@odd-ysseusdoesstuff6347 of the cell, yes
tru
Damn i accidently copied you. Sorry
Because it’s so reliably good?
It is an absolute crime that the example of "powerhouse being unable to be everywhere at once" was NOT TOPH holding up a sinking building while watching Aapa get taken by sandbenders.
Well technically she was “there” she just had to choose between one of her friends being captured and the rest of them being entombed.
Red didn't want to make us cry with that scene and we thank her for that
@@ThePa1riot not only that, but at that point she couldn't even see well enough in sand.
I always feel so sad for her in that scene. Poor girl, she tried her very best.
@@nora5602 and Aang reaction males it even worse. His anger is understandable but directed at the wrong people who aren't really in a condition to take it
Powerhouse: “Hey y’all remember how this is a stealth mission?”
Team: “Yeah..?”
Powerhouse: “And we couldn’t bring our weapons because it’d be too conspicuous?”
Team: “You didn’t…”
Powerhouse: *Opening their comically large trench coat with Hello Kitty stickers* “I did!”
The Hello Kitty stickers just seal the deal.
strong but goofy, my kinda guy~~
Lancer: Why do we even bring him to these things?
"If there is nobody left to talk it is still a stealth mission!"
"Wait, no..."
(Powerhouse pulls a Leroy Jenkins)
@@lexvangraaf7870 so a himbo
You showed so much restraint by not just showing twenty minutes of Toph kicking all the ass
All of it
Every single ass
Who cares about the legend of Korea if they could have made 10 seasons of melon lord
You know, I heard that Toph was going to fight the Firelord, but no one wanted a 16 second long finale.
@@laisphinto6372 legend of Korea my favorite show
"I got hit by a car!"
"I gOt HiT bY a CaR! Get over it!"
That little clip right there was enough to make me want to check Leverage out.
I highly recommend it. The place can be wacky and a little unrealistic, but when you accept it as part of the fiction of the world, you can appreciate the true charm of the show is the chemistry between the members of the crew.
*Heists, not place
If you like that line you'll love every single Hardison (the hacker) and Elliot interaction
@@fullmetallemer6818 "Damn it, Hardison!"
10 gallons of crazy in a 5 gallon bucket...
"You get the boys... I'll take care of these guys."
"Are you sure? There's an awful lot of..."
*"They hit me with a truck."*
How did I not think of Brock Samson the moment I heard about this trope?
Yeeeeeeeees!!!!!!
I farted
Question: is there any Patrick Warburton character that does _not_ fit this trope? (Lemony Snicket doesn't count; a narrator has no agency.)
@@d.b.4671 his character in seinfeld maybe?
Clicked for Toph Beifong
stayed for Eliot Spencer
two of television’s most well written powerhouses getting the recognition they deserve.
The big buff lady who hates sleeves makes an entire video about big buff characters who also hate sleeves.
*Perfection.*
I don't know why, but I can't imagine Red being an inch over 4'11". She kinda gives off (fantasy) dwarf vibes, smaller, but can wreck your shit.
Of course I could be wrong and she's 6'7", my mind's eye is notoriously blind.
@@whiskysmith9014 Tbf, she DOES draw herself sitting in a comically large chair proportional to her size.
sleeves are evil.
@@TimFromWinfield *sees people wearing sleeves*
"How are they even comfortable like that?"
@@whiskysmith9014 she’s mentioned before on stream that she’s pretty short i think, maybe 5’3? something like that?
"and check it off your trope talk bingo cards while you're at it"
Oh no... she's becoming self-aware
Captain Referencerica: "I'm proud of you, son"
I understood that reference
trope talk tropes? Oh my god the layers
She became self aware a while ago
She's becoming self-_referential._
You've heard of Infrared, but now here's Meta-Red.
There's another Superman mini-speech from Justice League that further explains this: He is *intentionally* getting hit, because every hit he takes is one his teammates don't have to.
Sweet! Where?
@@theoleadfoot2864 I think it's in the Secret Society episode?
True. However, I think that is seen as hindering the team because he is not working together with them.
I-
That sounds like a masochist covering up his kink. With a body so hard it must be tough if pain is a turn on.
That last bit made me remember the Grrl Power webcomic, specifically the hero Achilles whose power is, and I quote, "Invincibility. Proper, aggravating invincibility." He almost never "wins" a fight, but he'll frequently physically and verbally aggravate the villain until they drop everything else to spend 15-30 seconds *specifically* burying him in the nearest available material, and he'll eventually dig himself out with either a comment about how he was the MVP or, when the fighting gets particularly intense while he's buried, a question about wtf he missed.
There was also that one time he let himself get stabbed in the eye to make the stabber get grossed out
That sounds awesome!! 😂😂
Vaguely reminds me of a character I recall being named Captain Man in one of those shows that's like a sitcom aimed at tweens. But it's hard to recall a ton of details. I just remember he's invincible and kind of a dick
@@uncroppedsoop from Henry danger
So Achilles' whole purpose is to troll them so hard they forget everything to kick his ass?
That's hilarious!
"Toph hits things with rocks" is the best 1 sentence character summary.
I also love that she's a 'blind but uses other senses to compensate' character whom the writers always remember what she can and can't do.
The other CHARACTERS on the other hand constantly forget that she's blind, usually with hilarious results. These are some of the funniest jokes in the show.
@@fugitiveunknown7806 "THERE IT IS!! That's what it'll sound like when one of you spots it."
@@christianconrad242
*waves her hand in front of her eyes with a goofy open mouth smile*
@@christianconrad242 "Why I think its a lovely picture of Appa, Sokka!"
I love the fact that the usual issue with Toph isn't "can she handle it", but convincing her not to just absolutely demolish the problem first scene =).
Hot take from the opening narration.
Big Guys are like Basses in a choir. You don't notice how much you need them until they're gone.
They provide the steady foundation for everyone else to build off of.
You might not hear them with your ears, but you feel them in your core.
That's not a hot take
As an actual Bass in an actual choir, THIS.
We don't usually get the melody but you try getting that emotional kick without the low harmonies backing you up.
It just doesn't work.
You don't notice how wrong the sound is until you don't feel the rumbling of the bass singers in your ribcage
Aka Tim Foust, he is the bass
That's not a hot take. And probably why every team series has one.
Obi-wan Kenobi is a powerhouse.
"Oh, no, I'm not brave enough for politics."
*Leaves to go beat up the ridiculously dangerous enemy general.*
Obi-Wan is a hard character to pin down when you think about it. Sometimes he's a Leader, sometimes a Lancer, sometimes a Powerhouse, Occasionally the Smart guy. He changes roles continuously depending upon the situation.
Ewan MacGregor killed that role though. One of the few good things about the prequels.
Would argue that in TCW Anakin is more of the designated power house. You don't send him to investigate or to do dimplomacy, you send him if you want to make things dead. Aggressive fighting style included.
Meanwhile, Obi Wan is the master of defense. Depending on the opponent he's either stalling or trolling them into a weak position. And it usually works.
Well, out of him, Anakin, and Ahsoka, Obi-Wan is the strongest, so it checks out.
I wish most politics were solved that way.
@@zoro115-s6b He is not the strongest, that would be Anakin, he is just more experienced and skilled than Anakin and Ahsoka, so usually comes on top
I like how when you say the defining out of combat trait is food
IT STILL APPLIES TO ELLIOT
Granted, it is making food, and not eating it, in the stereotypical barbarian sense, but you are absolutely right about it.
Oh man I just love the fact that Elliot has more than one thing and it's always a nice surprise when his non-combat skills are the key to a plan. And honestly Hardison eating Elliot's sandwich is one of the funniest scenes of television I've ever seen.
💎gotta keep up the calories so they maintain the physique💎
Heck, even applies to Avatar.
Toph is The Melon Lord.
@@TimdeVisser86 I personally hated the episode because I don't like the office (for reasons I will not get into) but I loved the arc of Hardison eating the sandwich.
Elliot is still a near perfect powerhouse, and this is a phenomenal realization.
"The powerhouse will just hit the problem until the problem stops being a problem."
*hits*
Powerhouse: "Are you a problem!?"
Enemy: "I will kill everyone you love!"
*hits*
Powerhouse: "Are you a problem!?"
Enemy: "Fuck you!"
*hits harder*
Powerhouse: "Are you a problem!?"
Enemy: "Ah, stop it!"
*Hits again*
Powerhouse: "Are you a problem!?"
Enemy: "N-, No"
*Powerhouse grabs the enemy by the head with both hands and looks him/her deep in the eyes*
Powerhouse: "What are you?"
Enemy: ".........I'm an idiot sandwich"
Barbarian
Miscellaneous myths: Leader
Trope talk: Lancer
History with Blue: Smart guy
Streams: Big guy
History memes: the heart
Vines: Loner
Eh sounds more like a sixth ranger
I love this
Journey to the West: powerhouse
Terrible writing advice: dark Lord
This made me realize that Gandalf is usually a powerhouse, despite being so old and wise.
He should be the definitive example of a non-physical powerhouse, given how much of a Game Breaker magic is.
It works exceptionally well for Gandalf and LOTR's soft magic system, with Magical LOTR characters having a rather loosely defined but narratively established powerful characters.
@@thecharmingone3931 He would also be the physical powerhouse if he went that route. Like he smack people with his staff more than actually using it for magic.
Gandalf isn't even a human...
@@WadcaWymiaru Neither is Goku, but he is a powerhouse character. Character. Not powerhouse human
3:18 "The Powerhouse will just keep hitting the problem until it stops being a problem"
yeah sounds about right
I love that it's a clip of Kevin just throwing a piece of scrap metal at an alien.
Hacker: "How many plans do we have? Is there like a Plan M?"
Mastermind: "Yeah, Hardison dies in Plan M."
Eliot: "I like Plan M."
I’m so happy someone else remembers this show
I didn't expect anyone to know what Leverage was. Holy fuck. I thought that was just a thing I watched because I grew up without cable and had no friends...
@@deadersurvival4716 1) Leverage is amazing. 2) And it's coming back (at least briefly). 3) Aaaaaaagh!
@@KariMaaren Wait, I didn't know it's coming back... WHERE?
@@deadersurvival4716 IMDb TV. I'm in Canada, so I don't know where or when I'll be able to view it, but if you're American, you should be fine. I'm not sure exactly WHEN it's coming back, but there's a trailer.
“You can tell he’s a power house from just 1 character trait?”
“It’s a very distinctive trait”
XD
What’s that from?
@Nico
Nice
That made me laugh sooo hard.
Ok, you win the comment section.
So basically, powerhouses are the only characters who can say "just hit till it dies lol" and it'll actually work.
If you're gonna hit it, hit it till it breaks. -oikawa toru
Woah, we should like group up yknow? and--
HIT IT TILL IT DIES!!
@@jahimalnar7978 didn't expect to see an saoa reference here
@@jahimalnar7978 Very well, watch closely, for one day you shall tell your grandchildren of the day you saw the great Corvax in action. Now men, group up, and HIT IT TILL IT DIES
Reminds me vaguely of an old D&D adage "The best debuff is dead".
''There was a time I got caught in a reactor crawlspace when a coolant pipe blew, and that coolant is radioactive as fuck, hits the open air, and it vaporizes just like that. You get it on your skin, it ain’t good, but it washes off mostly, you'll survive. You breathe it in, though, you get those radioactive particles down in your lungs where you can’t get ’em out, that pretty much melts you from the inside, point is, I learned some things about myself. I learned that I could hold my breath for almost two minutes while engaging in physical stressful activity, so… you have to ask yourself, how much damage do you think I could do to you in two minutes before the knockout gas gets to me?
‘Cause I’m betting it’s a lot.'' -A Powerhouse named Amos
What is this from?
@@voltronimusprime3833 The Expanse
Amos is the ONLY character in any series that scares me. I’m not sure why but my first reaction to him was . Shoot him now before he gets you.
I don't even know the source material and this is great
@@uncroppedsoop it's a really good science fiction series. The books are great (9 book series was just finished last year). The tv show is ok (great cast, some really great scenes).
“ . . . whereas Thor showing up is consistently regarded as a game changer because he can be relied on to help.”
*BRING ME THANOS*
And "Infinity War" did the Powerhouse storyline exactly as Red described. Show PH get destroyed in the beginning to establish enemy threat (first sight of Thor is him defeated). Rest of cast struggles with enemy until PH returns (Wakanda fight) and PH only loses fight by holding back ("you should have went for the head").
Best fucking entrance ever
*cue 'Immigrant Song'*
But imo Marvel made the mistake Red just mentioned. They worfed Thor and Hulk repeatedly to keep introducing new threats. Phase 3 was literally just that. Thor gets his ass kicked by Hela, Ragnorak and Thanos and so does Hulk. Hulk even gets beat up by Thor to cement Thor as the big baddy. Then they solve the issue of Thor being too strong by making him a joke in Endgame
@@huzaifa8665 exactly! And that is why personally I don't like "the strongest hero alive" storylines, like Superman or Goku, for example. I like the characters themselves, but every storyline you always have to "Worf" them to make any story suspenseful.
My favorite heroes are Batman and Spiderman. They have great ability but almost everyone of their villains can realistically beat them if they are not careful.
But many others, unlike me, like those super powerful characters. So Marvel will keep giving us Thor, Hulk, Dr Strange, Captain Marvel, now Scarlet Witch, who are so powerful you always have to ask, "why didn't they do this and that would solve the problem immediately?"
It’s simple. I see Toph, I click.
“Captain, why is there a giant sentient metal mech coming towards our ship-“
*”ABANDON SHIP!”*
Yup
Cross it off your bingo card!
It’s simple. I see osp I click.
you SEE?
Red: * describing powerhouses *
Me: Like Eliot from Leverage.
Red: * starts talking about Leverage *
Me: Age of the geek, baby!
You speak truth
@AINSLEY BOATRIGHT in the US, it's on IMDB TV, a free ad supported service.
@AINSLEY BOATRIGHT Also, IMDB TV is making another season.
@@Bear_Incorporated I thought it was Amazon that was rebooting the franchise. Now I’m confused. 🤔
@@Bear_Incorporated wait, the fuck? seriously? halleliuhah
"The only time when Elliot meets his physical match in a fight, and worries he might lose, they end up making out."
I wasn't expecting that.
It’s even better to see it first hand, they match move for move and have fears in their own heads that the other one will beat the crap out of them.
@@harrogeorge7878 Well, in that situation, they would’ve either been panicking that they’d met someone who could kill them, or panicking that they might be falling in love. 😂
"If you can't beat them, kiss them".
If you can’t fuck em up, fuck em
I need a clip of the scene
"The powerhouse is usually the one who gets hit first to establish how powerful the villan is"
Me: I wonder if they will bring up Worf...
"This is also known as the Worf effect"
lol.....
I mean, whe the trope gets called after you, chances are you are a pretty damn good example of the trope
@Dump Sockpuppet, sometimes this index is not an example
Remember that time worf got absolutely bodied by a barrel?
Red hit it on the head by saying that you have to establish that the powerhouse is tough first. That’s why it’s called The Worf Effect because ST:NG failed that. They *told* the audience how tough and dangerous Worf was, but they never *showed* us before the first time they had him one-shotted out cold.
@@andrewjohnson6716 Also, Dorn has said that avoiding this is what got him onto DS9.
I love how Toph being the Big Guy/Powerhouse is countered by how she’s the youngest and tiniest member of the Gaang.
And yes, I know she was originally supposed to be an Actual Big Guy, but I am as glad as everyone else that this was changed.
Isn't Aang 11? Toph is 12.
@@Luissv72 They were both 12 in Avatar.
in agent of shields it is the middleaged female pilot who does not want to be part of the action and is literaly called the chavellary and in NCIS its the teams token girl, if someone needs to be beaten up, she gets to play and the boys lay back and watch ^^
@@balabanasireti thx. Haven't seen it in a while
@@Luissv72 technically he's over 100
"The powerhouse is simple in the same way a hammer is simple."
Ah yes, the Unga Bunga tactic.
Unga bunga
Unga bunga
Bunga unga
Unga Bunga
Unga Bunga
Reminds me of All might from mha whos basically built up to be the "Its ok, im here now" person while basically being physical combat exclusive. Though he also seems to work as a protagonist to a degree
Somebody can fill more than one role in the team. Goku was in the powerhouse lineup at the end.
All Might isn't the Powerhouse in MHA, Todoroki is. Deku is Hero, Bakugo is the Lancer, Todoroki is the Powerhouse, Uraraka is the Heart (kinda, Deku's kinda also the heart), and Yaoyurozu is the Smart Guy. All Might sits sort of outside the context of this paradigm, with him being the Mentor. Todoroki is the powerhouse because although Deku is powerful, he's also inconsistent with his Quirk usually wrecking his shit if he uses it at full power. Bakugo isn't because he's mentally fragile, prone to strategic errors and myopia despite being a combat monster. With Todoroki, if your plan doesn't have an answer for "Suddenly incased in a mountain of ice", you need to scrap the plan.
@@austinowings4904 I would have thought Deku was the smart guy who came up with the plan to play everyone together here, at least in the earlier seasons in the manga it kinda gets power creeped a bit.
@@austinowings4904 All-Might was the powerhouse of his generation. MHA is great because it is a sort of follow up to a classic Shonen Action series. All-Might was the protagonist in his time, Endeavor was the lancer etc. You are right that Todoroki is the powerhouse of the 1A generation, with Bakugo as lancer due to his rivalry being his drive etc.
Man I feel like that show went downhill as soon as All Might got taken off the table. I miss him lol
5 man band:
Hero: Ribosome
Lancer: Golgi apparatus
Brains: Nucleus
Heart: Cytoplasm
Mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell.
This is the best comment in this whole comment section.
@@carotidartery1 thank you. i actually had to think for a bit who goes where.
Does that make Lysosomes the Sixth Ranger?
Jesus, this is an A-Tier meme. GG
Delightful!
I feel like Red is starting to realize that literally any trope talk thumbnail with an AtlA character in it is guaranteed to elicit a primal urge to click out of me.
I clicked for Thor tho...
@@killme2675 hey, still valid bro
@@marj2278 Indeed
I clicked for Toph because any discussion of Toph or anything tangentially related to Toph has my implicit approval.
We are but moths to a flame.
"Your first mistake was flashing that fake FBI badge at me. Your second mistake was spilling his coffee."
“Aww see you made two mistakes bro. First, you flashed that fake ass FBI badge at me, and second...you spilled his coffee.”
Later -
“Where’s Elliot?”
“He had to go home and change his shirt. He got some coffee on it...some blood...some teeth...”
What's this from?
@@robertyocum7200 The show Leverage, Episode "The Double Blind Job"
@@dehn6581 tyty
@@robertyocum7200 Red showed a brief scene of it, where Elliot had the stain on his shirt.
Here's an idea: the character starts out as the team powerhouse, but as the story progresses, they get Worfed more & more frequently as the foes the team comes up against get more powerful, as well as their comrades growing stronger along the way to the point where the former powerhouse has a full on identity crisis as they realize they're no longer the strong one on the team.
When videogame writers become scriptwriters.
We needed an episode where Worf had a Nerf gun.
They are not a powerhouse anymore, so it isn't about a powerhouse but the transformation of their role or actually how they feel about it.
He may be from a game as opposed to a book or show, but Reyn from Xenoblade 1 more or less embodies this. Starts out as the big protecter of the team but at the start of the final act, he starts to have an internal crisis over the fact that the people he was once meant to protect no longer NEED to be protected, and he may even be more vulnerable than they are - particularly the main character.
It’s handled pretty damn well through a long one on one talk with another character - that essentially boils down to “they no longer need someone to protect them from harm; they need an ally to stand by their side. To fight alongside.”
Real good shit.
You're describing my shadowrun character. he's a big orc and an excellent fighter, but he almost never gets to show his stuff. he makes more damage than anyone else on the team, but the ki-adept often is fast enough to use some non-lethal ammo and knock out the oponent, before i get to do anything. we only had one scene where my char got to shine and that was when we were fighting ghouls in the sewer and even than we had only one combat turn before some guy showed up and called the ghouls back. i was itching for more fighting and couldn't get it. in the beginning we had to fight more often, but now our Mage and the Decker handle most of the stuff. and i'm starting to rant so better to wrap this up. in short: if you play an rpg, be aware that the powerhouse often gets outpaced when the group progresses; if you are a dm, make sure that your powerhouse gets the fighting they need to stay happy.
jagen moment
An appropriate thumbnail.
"My names Toph. Because it sounds like TOUGH, and that's just what I am!"
"I see by screaming at you. AGGgGHHhHHH!!!!!! There. I got a pretty good look at your faces."
I've always noticed that when the big guy dies it means very bad things for the rest of the cast. He protects everyone and if he is ever taken out, everyone suffers.
Sweats nervously in Jujutsu Kaisen
something different happens if a party member dies
powerhouse dies: group loses allot of power and usually ends up losing to big bad
the heart dies: the group splits up and goes in a darker path
the brains dies: group makes a dumb plan that gets them killed
the lancer dies: actually the group usually can hold on but they are severly weaker
the leader dies: the group gets onorganised and either dies to the big bad or splits up
@@seankock7649 -So basically the Lancer isn’t that important?-
@@CombatSportsNerd usually the lancer is the one who even turns on the group
@@seankock7649 you're forgetting when the Lancer steps up to do the dead leader's job
Literally the first time I've encountered anyone talking about "Leverage" in a public space. Take this like.
It sounds a whole lot like an anime on Netflix "great Pretender"
Go follow Seanan Mcguire on Twitter. She hasn't talked about it in a while, but it's her favorite show and she'd probably gush about it in a 100 tweet thread if you gave her half a chance. (I like Leverage too, btw but I don't have a social media following)
@@xk445g ya but IMO it just does it better.
Honestly one of may favorite shows ever. Worth binge-watching more than once.
Bruh same!
Sailor Jupiter is probably my favorite powerhouse in media. Strong enough to toss monsters over her head in civilian form, but a gentle sweetheart who loves to bake just as much as she loves to fight. There's just something so special about a tough tanky girl in that kind of costume too, it just works so well to juxtapose the skills and personality.
I just love how Eliot can tell what military some goons served in by their shoes or haircuts "It's a very distinctive haircut"
I recall and interview of Peta Wilson in which she mentioned meeting Vladimir Putin while promoting Nikita where he mentioned that he could tell where she was trained by how she held a sniper rifle. She said, due to that, he was the scariest guy she'd ever met (quite something for an army brat).
Elliot was alwayse smarter than he seemed and that's part of why he was the powerhouse.
Im just happy I finally found someone that talked about leverage
Everyone were smart guys on the team, but they are all various flavors. He is the grizzled veteran type where his knowledge about everything under the sun comes from him being stabbed or shot by everything under the sun
Hardison is a classical Mage/Infodump style smart guy, where his knowledge of things comes from an inhuman ability to research and formulate anything he puts his mind to.
Nate was a Mastermind/Strategist smart guy, because he is the leader and smart guy at the same time. He frequently played chess against his opponents, in one episode literally.
Sophie was the Team Face Smart guy, who could act as the absolute force of getting people out of trouble with her intimate knowledge of human psyches.
Parker was a smart guy in a very real sense in that whatever she actively tries at, she will get it down to a scary science, has a photographic memory (drew a sketch of a hitman who was trying to assassinate a mark) and has knowledge of security better than anyone else on the planet. There is a reason why when she says her name (or it is found in her files) that she is treated as the living legend. (S1, E1, Nate says "Parker, you have parker"; In the Girls Night Out Job S4, a thief and spy asks what even is her name, and she says it, and he cannot comprehend that it is in fact, her. Oh, and she is capable of complex mathematics in almost no time, and blew up a house when she was like, 5. If there was ever a line between Crazy and Genius, she probably fastened it to one of her rigs and uses it to skydive with.
Everyone on the team has some level of smart guy-ness to them, but as far as subtropes specifically they almost never overlap unless it is explicitly the point of the episode that it isn't their kind of smart-guyness. (All of the tropes of smart guys I have listed here were mentioned in the smart guy episode too, I just didn't use the exact names because I prefer mine)
Elliot is my favorite "Leverage" character because the more you watch the show the more you realize just how freaking weird he is. Like, Parker is designated as the "weirdo" character, but Elliot just has so many different hobbies, and mysterious character traits and background that keep coming more and more to the surface. It's so WILD. I love him.
Right?? Some of my favorite moments are:
*Elliot:* Those guys are (insert random type of military/mercenary group here)
*Hardison:* How the hell do you know that
*Elliot:* It's the way they walk (or their clothing, hairstyle, etc.)
*Hardison:* ????
*Elliot:* IT'S A VERY DISTINCT WALK
Anytime they need any bit of random information Elliot just pipes up and gives it to them. I love it. And it always ends with Hardison staring at him like he has 3 heads and the line "Pay attention, Hardison!"
Not to mention how wholesome he is when interacting with people he could see as family (ex: kidnapped little girl and old man working at "not walmart" )
"You ID'd a guy by his knife-fighting style?"
"It's a very distinctive style."
"it's a very distinctive [blank]" is my favorite
Red: ...and Toph hits things with rocks.
Katara: see Toph, thats the real you you're seeing on stage.
Toph: Are you kidding me! I wouldn't say it any other way.
Edit: LEVERAGE, I LOVE THAT SHOW! I CANT EVEN COUNT HOW MANY TIMES IVE WATCHED IT THROUGH! HECK YEAH! Here's hoping the alleged sequel series in the works doesn't suck.
Ur completely right
Alleged sequel?!?! *furiously googles*
That show is so good!!!
Where can you watch it? I am someone who doesn't have cable and this sounds like a really good show.
I had no idea a sequel was in the works! I Googled it and found out that the original series is on IMDb TV (free, ad-supported streaming service I previously didn't know about) and the sequel will be on there as well. Also, for anyone wondering, it isn't a direct sequel from the sound of it, more of a reboot with 4/5 members of the original cast because the dude that played the mastermind was accused of sexual assault. It has a lot of the original creative team behind it though!
Theoretically, you can make your powerhouse be shown as an important character by taking him out for a while, and let your team for the next few tasks really struggle to even match the antagonists. It would also be a good time to make your antagonists show why they are a threat. And the plot for the next few chapters is basically getting your powerhouse back because we are losing.
EMH did that a few times, the one that really sticks out is Season One when the Avengers went up against Ultron. Ultron apparently kills Thor and they are barely able to even keep him busy while Ant-Man plays smart guy with his bot
@@DavidbarZeus1 That and throughout the secret war arc in season 2 where all that was needed was Thor showing up and the enemies being revealed.
I'd prefer it if instead of taking them out you remove them otherwise, whether it's a different problem or they just aren't there at the start of the fight
In an episode of Konosuba, an adventurer group gets jealous of Kazuma for being in a team of girls who are powerful enough to carry him through most threats. He gets really mad about that insinuation and dares their leader to swap teams with him for 1 week. During that week, Kazuma is probably the most successful and heroic and happy he’s ever been, and at the end they meet up and find out Kazuma’s old team is in shambles, with the leader pleading to be returned to a team of non-dysfunctional people while his former teammates are asking Kazuma to stay for his prowess.
In the end, the old team compositions are restored and the other group learns to respect Kazuma for putting up with his in reality very bad teammates
At this point Trope Talk is just an extremely lengthy analysis of Avatar the Last Airbender, love it
An extremely lengthy ADVERTISEMENT* of Avatar
@@ethanchaotic As if we needed an advertisment
Ah yes
@Freerefill It's actually the tropiest show ever if you take a deep look and really think about it, but you really don't notice generally, because all the tropes are so masterfully executed that you don't mind.
@@corhydrae3238 As TV Tropes says, tropes are tools. You use your tools well, you build a masterpiece
Red: " I need someone to talk to about leverage"
Me, who binged the entire series: MY TIME HAS COME
Me: "The age of @Nathan Bezerra begins"
Deadpool: "What the *Bleep! That's the coolest name ever!"
I had every season on dvd before it was lost in a move and I haven't found a streaming service to watch it on ;-;
Me, who watched it 5 times and read the book: same
@@thlaggyping81 Amazon UK has it
I'm absolutely delighted by all of the Leverage fans coming out of the woodwork in this comments section
Ah yes the Worf Effect- otherwise known as ‘How often will Vegeta get the crap kicked out of him’
ironcailly the best display of the worf effect while also giving baddass points to the big guy power house was vegeta versus manjin buu at the end of Z
buu has been proven he is stronger than goku and vegeta so vegeta needs to earn the time for them to gather the energy for the genkidama
and at that point vegeta had already gotten the living crap out of his soul beaten out (literally). so he just needing to recieve the beating of his life if only to get them time was a nice show of strenght and kinda his karma for what he pulled at the beginning of the arc that caused buu to emerge in first place
But isn't Vegeta the Lancer of the team?
DBZ is confuding like that... Goku should count as the leader since he is the MC of the show but he is also most certainly the heart.
Piccolo could also be the lancer but i'd rather call him the brain guy and people like adult Trunks and Roshi are also there and fill roles but those roles are always dependent on what the team comp is at the time. There are too many people to give everyone only one single role.
I always attributed the Worf Effect to Gohan. Hence being Gohan'd...
Always built up to be the biggest threat until he's made irrelevant by plot or bad writing.
@@TheHKZero Or, more recently, being Konohamaru'd. I enjoy the Boruto anime, but they really have dropped the ball when it comes to the Konohamaru character. This guy took out a Pain as a kid in Naruto Shippuden, and yet he hasn't had a single victory in Boruto against anything that wasn't fodder, and he just keeps getting beating up to make the arc villains seem stronger.
@@TheHKZero that's more of a case of scrapped plot development though
or well i wanna believe that
Just had to come and thank Red for recommending "Leverage" ... One of the best shows I've ever watched........Thanks
The greatest writing tool on the internet: Red’s Trope Talk.
Did not expect this to blow up. Thanks
Also recommended: Terrible Writing Advice.
Beyond accurate
@@BlackCover95 Yes.
I'd like to just say: I'm very, very glad Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes is getting the love it deserves.
t could have been like the Justice League/JLU cartoons but it was cancelled.
@@foldabotZ In my opinion, at it's best, A:EMH was at least as good as JLU, though not quite as good as JL Season 2. If it had more time to grow and become it's own thing, I fully think it could have gotten there.
I watched that show so much when I was in elementary
God knows marvel/disney didn't
@@pashlyn Right?!?
The whole "Powerhouse trope": *Exists*
Saitama: "OK"
_Guitar riff signifying that stuff's about to get done_
One punch man basically relies on comedy and super cool action scenes
@@crouchinglibcrab9527 Dragonball?
@@crouchinglibcrab9527 *cough Dragonball *cough
@@mr.preston1632 no it doesn't. Saitama is omnipotent within the story because he cannot be defeated. He is not, however, particularly smart or observant. The writer maneuvers Saitama out of the way whenever a new arc starts, shunting him into a B-Plot that converges with the A-Plot towards the end of the Arc.
Ironically enough you can see this reflected most simply in the fighting game based on the anime; Saitama is a playable character in this fighting game and is completely immune to damage from other characters, and one-punches any other fighter. However, you can only use Saitama after a certain amount of time has passed, and you must fight off your opponent while you wait for him to arrive at the battle.
This wait for Saitama happens all the time throughout the show; a new threat appears, kicks the shit out of all the heroes, but the one man who could solve the problem is nowhere to be found. The heroes manage to push through their limits and win what they think is a major victory, while Saitama obliterates the true threat behind the scenes.
One Punch Man relies on narrative and character dynamics to entertain the readers. True there are lot's of cool fight scenes and stuff, but they aren't really the focus, because with a character who can beat any physical opponent, fight scenes can't be the focus.
The audience instead watches and listens to characters talk about the world they live in, recite their tragic backstories, and interact with one another. When a villain starts getting too powerful, they push him off the stage in a dark corner, where Saitama can destroy him without revealing to the wider world that he is an unstoppable force.
I've noticed that powerhouses usually take on the parent/oldest sibling trope a lot. Where they have simplistic ways to approach a problem, but they know its effective and understand everyone's roles. Which is why they are also protective of their teams and feel it is there responsibility to care for everyone.
Gildarts from Fairy Tail totally fits the powerhouse trope, as well as the father figure for these young wizards(yeah I know, I know, I've watched the whole thing)
Also the husband character from Train to Busan, who is about to be a father so he fits the role quite well.
Elliot Spencer also, to the point where the directors would sometimes specifically tell Christian Kane to act like an older sibling to Parker and Hardison.
I haven’t finished fairy tail but I’d argue Erza is more of a powerhouse, as she is around more, and the author constantly has to think of reasons for her to be able to help
The character who takes out too many weapons is the height of comedy in my humble opinion. No matter what media, it never fails to make me smile.
Yeah, I always love seeing that. It's such a cliché, but it's unreasonably funny.
Reminds me of that guy in animated Sinbad where he just keeps putting his weapons on the counter until the main characters advanced the plot in a party and dragged him out after they're done.
oh youll love half life then
"We need you to remove your weapons."
"Um... How long do we have? I have over twenty...."
Tackleberry and his date in Police Academy 2!
🤣😹🤣😹🤣😹🤣😹
“Punching Superman Through a Wall Syndrome”… I love it.
It was really bad in the Justice League cartoons though, the bad guys usually wouldn't know who anyone was, so they had no in-universe reason to target Superman. Just, "Let's shoot one off these dudes to make an example... eh, how 'bout the red-and-blue one?" And it's not like he would be talking back or resisting at the time, there's just a line of seven superheroes or so an every villain always chose Superman because the writers got off on emasculating him or something. Or maybe it was because he literally could solve every problem by himself (Clark has lots more skills than hitting things when it's his own show), and they have to remind everyone that this isn't the real Superman, it's the one from the N64 game with "Kryptonite fog" everywhere, who's weak against everything.
@@Wendy_O._Koopa to be fair, it’s usually because Superman is the first to rush them, even more than Hawkgirl though that’s probably just because he’s faster than her.
"The Powerhouse is the most reliable fighter, not necessarily the most powerful"
So Sandy is the big guy because Monkey is too impulsive? XD
I mean, Sandy did fight an entire army by himself so Monkey and Pigsy could do other stuff, so your not wrong
Yeah, I'd call Monkey more of a Lancer than a Big Guy
The first half of that sentence had me thinking that this was about Spongebob. Granted, Sandy’s probably the best fighter regardless
@@dementedvillian Same man!
@@dementedvillian Canonically, Sandy can beat both Wukong and Pigsy combined... but that's only if they're underwater. On dry land, he's at disadvantage against either of them. The power level here is pretty complicated and specific.
YAY, LOVE FOR LEVERAGE! my favorite "powerhouse" Episode was the one where Elliot reveals that he is the one who made that plan all along, and that he actually is incredibly intelligent. He just "plays" the big dumb brute for two reasons: 1. He doesnt want to step on anybody's toes, and 2. it makes people underestimate him. showing, like you said, even he himself realized a long time ago that not every situation requires a "Bigger Hammer"
I forget what episode did he take over as the leader? I know Hardison had a try at it a few times (to varying degrees of success) but I don't remember Elliot doing that. I know on occasion he will see an obvious answer to a simple problem and absolutely confound someone on the team (earliest example I know is the second episode where Hardison tried to hack a camera but he just picked up a rock and fucking chucked it at the camera, and even in that episode he came through with an even funnier solution where he said so many words that they tricked a voice lock with what amounts to appetizers.)
I have seen him absolutely double down when it is down to the wire, pulling out whatever skill he needs, but I don't recall him making the plan.
@@gingerinajacket8519 In the episode where Nate Ford's ex-wife gets framed for the theft of the fabergé egg, Eliot puts his "extraction specialist" training to good use by putting together the plan to rescue Nate/Maggie from their captor while tricking said captor into thinking the fabergé egg is being handed over to him via elevator. There's hostage negotiations and a bomb involved. Eliot's plan goes off without a hitch and the day is saved. Basically it's one of the few times his special forces/operator training beyond "hitting stuff real good" gets highlighted.
I actually don't really remember him playing the big dumb brute. On his normal interactions he displays average intelligence and education. I don't remember him pretending to be an oaf (unless of course when he was playing a role for a grift). Thing is also, he has his expertise, like the others. Nate and Sophie know how criminal subcultures and big companies think, Hardison knows tech stuff, Parker knows security systems and Spencer's trade is recognizing military MO, the sound specific weapons make and that these guys where in the SAS based on how they walk.
@@wjzav1971 It's not that he necessarily "play dumb", he's quiet and lets people make assumptions about him, and since he's quiet that assumption is usually that he's not smart enough to keep up with everyone else, which is only true if it's related to computers
Elliot is more Powerhouse than Big Guy specifically because he also has a well-rounded secondary skill set that allows him to support any of the other characters as well as defending them. He can also _replace_ anyone but Hardison in a pinch, being able to act, pickpocket, seduce, grift, and outthink well enough to get the job done.
As someone whose favourite shows are Leverage and Avatar these Trope Talk is very satisfying to watch
Cant believe it took me this long find other people who know how good Leverage is.
Yes! I love Leverage! My favorite episode is the scherezade violin episode.
I have found my people! Leverage is quite arguably my favorite show of all time. The heists are over-the-top and unrealistic at times, but once you accept that, the chemistry between the members of the crew are absolutely fantastic.
You forgot the one trait that instantly designates someone as the powerhouse - the surname "Armstrong".
Luis Armstrong is really the powerhouse of jazz!
“The Armstrong name has been in the Armstrong family for generations!”
*Nanomachines, son*
Funnily enough, Fullmetal Alchemist somewhat subverts this trope. Of course Major Armstrong is absolutely a powerful Alchemist and a very capable fighter, but the show often goes out of its way to show how much of a softie he really is despite his muscle-man appearance. He may be one of the strongest in terms of physical strength, but at the same time he almost always ends up holding back to his own detriment. Though in I way I feel this subversion actually makes him a better character than if they made him a complete powerhouse fitting to his archetype.
In some ways I feel like Colonel Mustang has traces of this trope, as nearly every time the anime actually lets him fight it's almost always completely one-sided. He is very much hindered by his weakness to water, which really is simply meant to be a mechanism to keep him from being completely overpowered. If the anime let him do his thing more often, a lot of the fights and conflicts would have been trivial. That being said, he still has way more leader qualities, which is absolutely fine. I love how Fullmetal Alchemist doesn't fully adhere to tropes, only using them when convenient or when it makes the experience better.
stretch armstrong wbk
“I got hit by a car”
“Get over it”
That conversation alone makes me wanna watch the show
It's actually a really good show, my brother is so obsessed that he's watched all the way through multiple times, the thief is my favorite character personally, she's the 1 that told him to get over it
“If you get killed, walk it off.”
@@LocalMaple I understood that reference
It's really good, and I heard it might be getting a revival series.
@@rogernewman1476 The Thief (Parker) is also super-awesome in the fact that the actress playing her does almost all of her own stunts.
I started watching Leverage…and I hold you responsible for how addicted I am to it now!
What a cool example of a powerhouse, too.
This series rocks!
"or squabbling with the hacker like theyve been married for 15 years"
ok ill be honest, thats comedy
The Leverage crew sort of have a family dynamic - Nate and Sophie are the parents, Eliot is the oldest kid, and Hardison and Parker are the younger kids. Eliot will squabble with his 'siblings', but he would also die to protect them.
"Nobody throws Hardison off a roof... except maybe me."
the funny thing, it is the nerd/hacker, that started the animosety with the cool guy, not the other way around. Like with his asking: "what are you even good for" . . .
It is! Those two are also genuinely sweet together and you will pry that OT3 from my cold, dead hands.
YES! Leverage is the best example of how Tropes are not bad! They’re tools. The whole show is chock full of tropes and cliches, from the many gambits they run, the traditional five man band, and even the characters’ personalities, but it’s so well written that it just makes the characters even more badass! It’s such a good show everyone watch it!
One of the biggest things that sticks in my craw about How Media Analysis, Criticism, and Discourse Behaves In Our Modern Age(tm) is people saying tropes are bad, or denying that a trope even IS a trope because tropes are by default somehow bad. They're not. Spending time on TVTropes shows you that tropes aren't bad just by virtue of being a trope. There are bad tropes, yes, but so many of them are simply recurring things that happen in storytelling, and mostrun the gamut from common to fine to good to inject more of this into my veins.
(The single biggest thing that sticks in my craw is the expanding, inane definition of "plot hole" that seemingly no longer actually encompasses plot holes but instead just nitpicky things the viewer doesn't like and CALLS plot holes)
those tropes exist because they are effectiv and great if used well . . . than people got lazy with it . . .
Is there a good place to watch Leverage or is buying it the only way?
Leverage is so good. I binged watched it in like 2 weeks. It is amazing!
@@TheLordofMetroids I just looked this up because someone else in the comments was asking. Apparently, it's on Amazon Prime by way of IMDB TV. Edit: it may also be on Hulu? I haven't checked but someone else in the comments mentioned it.
Is it just me or does anyone else want red to write a fantasy novel, if she did I would read it in a heartbeat.
IDK about a fantasy novel, but she does have a webcomic, Aurora.
Read Aurora!! It's great
jealous of this guy, getting to jump into aurora right at this point
@@peggyliepmann5248 I hadn't heard of this, but I shall remedy that immediately!
I feel like she would lampshade every single trope and have the characters break the fourth wall with jokes about storytelling. Like the order of the stick, but in novel format
leverage is my favorite show no one talks about and im so happy you used elliot as an example bc he fits this roll so perfectly, its a very distinctive role
This is why Jotaro is one if my favorite powerhouses. As soon as he starts punching, the fight is usually already won, but the way enemy stands interact with his force him to overcome different obstacles before he can get physical.
Jotaro is probably the best example of a main character who is also a powerhouse
And the fact Kira is scared shitless of him in part 4 is just 👌👌👌👌👌👌
you ORA'd your last MUDA
@@autisticturtle1849
Just about every enemy in Part 4 is terrified of Jotaro. Akira Otoishi even tells Josuke that he's doing every thing in his power to *avoid* fighting him.
Honestly this is a strength of Jojo's as a whole imho. Its not about power levels (which we all know are bullshit) its about finding an opening in an opponent's seemingly invulnerable defenses (or getting past their horrific offense) and jamming your fist straight through that vulnerability.
As long as I live, I’ll never forget the crowd’s reaction to seeing Thor appear in Wakanda.
I’m still mildly bummed the Immigrant Song didn’t start playing then.
POOOOOOOOOOWER!
-Quote from Albus Dumbledore (in his Youth)
BRING ME *THANOS*
@@joshuahadams I've just convinced myself immigrant song plays then & chosen to remember it like that
“You guys are so screwed now!!”
Eliot is best character on Leverage! Basically the group dad and has an AMAZING singing voice!!! Hes like a main character from an edgier show was on vacation and decided to hang with a bunch of thieves for a while!
That’s crazy accurate. I love the subgroup of Elliot, Hardison, and Parker. It’s probably my favorite dynamic in anything ever.
my favorite episode is "a fiddle game" because of the focus on him not just being "a hitter".
i also love the "chef" episode because of the dynamic between parker and Elliot.
The actor has a character with an insane arc on the Buffy spin-off Angel. He goes from top (ish) baddy to vengeful nemesis to redemption to you know what, he's in maybe 25 episodes out of the entire four-year run, and in each one he manages to steal the show.
The team dad was actually Nate. Eliot was actually the big brother of the group.
Alright that description seals the deal I'm watching the show now. Once red said found family and robin hood I was interest but the comment section has sold me
Dude 12:20 looked brutal af, he really sold that flopping off the side like that
Christian Kane's career was playing mooks for hero characters to beat up, until he created Elliot Spencer. He's got mega chops for stunts.
0:49 I really like that the characters Red drew back in her five band man video are still here and show up every now and then
Also this illustration is just cute that’s it 😊
I’m honestly shocked Sun Wukong wasn’t mentioned immediately, he fits this pretty perfectly.
Edit: Pigsy could be considered the powerhouse, but a big point of the powerhouse is being reliable (hence the Thor vs Hulk segment in the video), so I thought Wukong would fit better since Pigsy isn’t exactly know for being reliable. Then again, Sandy would be a pretty good fit for the big guy too! Very reliable but not so nuanced.
I think his more of a mischievous/anti-hero
Isn't pig demon the powerhouse ?
Nope! If you want 'guy who holds off the mooks' you want Sandy.
@@DanielPereira-ey9nt Pig isn't reliable enough to be a powerhouse.
More like he is not reliable at all, Monkey can't sleep for 1 minute without Pigsy messing everything up
"they are ex brittish SAS"
"how do you know?"
"its the ties they wear"
"what?"
favorite part about him. how he know the quirks of so many different armed forces lol
Oh, come on, you know you have to quote Eliot correctly.
"It's a very distinctive tie." :)
@@Wolfeson28 damn i knew i was messing it up somewhere
It's a very distinctive ... (knife, shoe, tie, just fill in the blank)
One of my favorite versions of this
*Elliot walks into room with white noise being played*
" Who tapped into the government satellite?"
"How can you tell it's a government satellite?"
"It's a very distinctive noise."
*British
Franky from One Piece is one of my favorite powerhouses. He is a literal cyborg with lasers, guns, rockets, a fist launcher, a button to change his hairstyle, and a flamethrower. He also has tanks, robot suits, and other neat stuff when he's not protecting the ship he's beating hordes of goons with the crew, he holds back all his powerful stuff and instead chooses to show off with his cool stuff. He also likes to strike a pose and say "SUUPERR!!" whenever the situation calls for showing off
Franky also used to be the only crewmember that was both strong and reliable until Jinbe joined.
I cannot tell you how I excited I was to see you mention Leverage!!! It's such an amazing show and Elliot is a fantastic character. One of my favorite stories about the actor, Christian Kane, comes from the hockey episode.
As soon as we (the show runners) knew we were doing this episode, we gave Kane a call.
“We need you to play hockey and fight on the ice.”
“When’s it shoot?”
“Third episode.”
“(beat) No problem.”
Kane flew up to Portland a month early, got a coach, and there he is - annoying me by doing his stunts in a whole new environment. Joy.
…
Yeah, that’s Kane doing all his own damn skating and fighting.
He was pretty good in The Librarians as well. Too bad the cast there didn't have Leverage's level of charisma.
It's a really, really good show, and Elliot is the best character on it.
@@chowyee5049 I tried that show. He was decent, but the plot was a proprietary blend of shaky, generic, and bland. I also hated every single romance plot they introduced. The worldbuilding was also... underwhelming, to say the least. No special feel to it.
I love the show and Elliot is my favorite character
@@robertlewis6915 I know, right? The world had so much potential but they squandered it all.
"give me someone to talk about this show with" is basically my whole motivation in trying to get my wife to watch She-Ra and DuckTales.
Ducktales and its reboots slapped
Should I watch She-Ra or finish Korra and RvB
yooooo i love the 2017 DuckTales!
so fucking good.
even forced my mum to watch it, and my siblings joined too. We all love it.
@@insanitycrafter8553 She Ra is really good imo ha en't watched lok
@@insanitycrafter8553 RED VS BLUE RED VS BLU-
Just had an idea! Trope Talk: Crossovers.
The guy from Terrible Writing Advice shows up and helps Red explain crossovers
POOOOOOOOOOWER!
-Quote from Someone
i second this
... Omg, this would be awesome !
ahh that sounds like such a cool episode!!
Hell. Yes.
A really good example outside of combat is Nishinoya from Haikyuu which is a show about volleyball. See Nishinoya is super awesome but he plays libero, meaning that he only plays defense and thus can't actually score the winning point for them, and he's also constantly being subbed out, again as a part of his position. So in order to raise the stakes the author just makes the final point on a rotation where Nishinoya isn't present so now they can't rely on him to just bail them out and he almost never needs to stop being cool. Plus since it's volleyball he doesn't get knocked out or fake out killed or anything. If they want to convey someone is tough then they'll show Nishinoya not being able to receive them *sometimes*. He can actually struggle a lot and still get awesome moments where he shows his reliability
Noya and Daichi are definitely the powerhouses of the team. Daichi maybe even moreso since Noya plays volleyball for his friends, quit volleyball for Asahi, and is sometimes swapped out in important moments, Daichi is almost always on the field and when he's not the team falls apart
If Leverage's protagonist is the combination of the leader and smart guy archetype, Daichi is the combination of the leader and big guy archetype
huh, I was literally just wondering what this would look like in a non-combat story but couldn't think of anything. Thanks a ton.
I love how in leverage, Eliot is also an incredibly skilled Chef, incredibly educated about fashion, a skilled singer (the actor actually has his own separate country music career, my dad met him on a plane to Nashville once), an emotionally intelligent romantic partner, and a skilled horseman. Writing the mook-smasher as a well rounded and multi-disciplinary bon-vivant is great, because it allows them to believably multiclass for stories with less requisite mook smashing
The same could be said of my favourite powerhouse character - Domovoi Butler in the Artemis Fowl series. I loved that series as a kid. The hero duo of genius but fragile Artemis and the complex powerhouse Butler was brilliant.
Does he have an evil hand?
dont forget that he also became a sports star twice in sports he'd almost never played before
Alternative titles are:
"Brick Sh*thouse", "Boisterous Bruiser", "Jolly Green Giants", and "Tank".
Brick Shithouse is by far my favorite
Meat shield
"Thank you again World of Tanks for sponsoring this video"
Muscly master murderer
Tank and jolly green giant are by far my favorites
Idea for the next Trope Talk episode: Rules/Internal logic, talk about how some shows have ironclad rules while others have more nebulous ones, Or how the audience feels cheated when a story breaks its own internal logic
Hello future me does a great video on that it’s called hard vs soft magic systems
Stories breaking their own internal logic is definitely a bit pet peeve of mine.
**Glares at the entire Star Trek franchise**
@@zoro115-s6b You get used to that fuck up in stories after a while
@@CombatSportsNerd No. No I do not. I stop watching the show
I'm usually extremely easy to entertain and, depending on how it's played, stories breaking their own internal logic is among the few things that can make me stop watching/reading something. Play it for laughs, or be self aware enough to acknowledge it? I'll usually let that one slide. Mangling your story by throwing something totally random into it, and then expect me to accept it? Get the fuck outta here.
Saitama is one of my favourite powerhouse characters ever, in part because his reasoning for not just solving every problem immediately is that he's canonically a lazy bastard (and we love him for it)
Saitama's other reason for not solving every problem is that nobody knows to ask Saitama for help when there's a world ending threat. He only solves a problem if it happens within earshot.
How do you NOT have a bunch of people to talk with about Leverage? The show is amazing!
The word is a Lovecraftian mystery.
no one i know outside of my family has watched leverage. it's a freaking mystery
Where can you watch it?
i watch it on amazon
@@aljacobson2164 Imdb has it for free, last time I checked
I am so pleased that Elliot Spencer is finally getting the recognition he deserves
Yes!
Leverage in general. It seems like a lot of people slept on it the first time around. So glad Red brought it up
I was not expecting Red to mention Leverage, but I'm delighted that she did.
I like how Worf got to grow more as a character in DS9, and they also explain in the DS9 Risa episode (possibly retconing from NG) that Worf has also been restraining himself the whole time. The episode where Worf has the fight a gauntlet of Jemhadar is also a great character moment for him.
I would like to see some variation of episodes where Worf gets knocked out first, not to show “oh look - these bad guys are bad news” but because Worf (as head of security) sees the bad guys doing their bad guy stuff, and they knock him down in order to keep him from raising the alarm.
A case of knocking out security, instead of “taking out the big guy”
Leverage is so good! I'm so glad someone is finally mentioning it! There's an episode where the entire conflict is a chef stole a recipe and the way they take him down is by call the US Fish and Wildlife service because he's smuggling truffles, it's great
SAME (though my favorite episode is the rashamon job) I can't wait for the podcast on Wednesday so she can gush even more about leverage
it was a good series, did they ever do a second run of the series?
@@daveinspiration7333 They just wrapped filming on season 1 of Leverage 2.0
How do you watch this show. I’m very interested now
@@daveinspiration7333 soon!!! They just finished filming the reboot. They got %80 of the main cast back and all the old writers and show runners this is going to be f****** fantastic.
LEVERAGE IS MY ABSOLUTE FAVORITE SHOW, I'M M MCFRICKEN LOSING IT
I thought was the only before this video lol.
I loved that show. I might binge it again just from being reminded of it.
P.S. that scene she refers to where Elliot uses a gun the first time is on par with Cap using Mjolnir...it was that epic!
I have been using this show to explain or as examples for soo many tropetalks. It's been a while since I watched it but I LOVE this show. Glad Red is watching it.
Kind of sounds like Great Pretender
As a massive fan of Leverage, how didn’t I realize that Elliot was the *perfect* counter to The Worf Effect...wow...
Also, that show is superb, and I’m happy to see it get mentioned because *oh my god it’s so gooooddddd*
Glad to finally meet another fan of the show!:)
For real this is a great show! I binged the whole thing a few years ago (before that I had seen a few episodes here and there as it was airing on TV) and was way more drawn into it than I ever expected.
The show is amazing and Red examplified it perfectly. I really need to watch it again before Leverage 2 comes out.
@@furkanaysal6339 wait, _they’re doing another series of it‽_ Super excited!
I like it because they grew as characters. They totally could have done the whole "reset to status quo by the end of the episode" thing like many TV series, but they didn't. They had character growth that was consistent and made sense. For the most part anyways.
"I HACKED HISTORY!"
one of the greatest lines I have ever heard.
How about a video on the "I don't like working with you, but I have to" trope, where the good guys and the bad guys have to work together to beat a common enemy?
Trope term for that is “Enemy Mine.”
@@ThePa1riot You know what they say "The enemy of my enemy is a friend".
Of the many reasons to love Eliot Spencer, I love the fact that he would love being called better than Worf. I'm picturing him and Hardison watching this, Hardison being very grumpy about it, and them getting into a huge snarky argument about it.
And the argument ending with "Dammit, Hardison!"
Does anyone else get the feeling that Red is a great essay writer or author of some sort?
they are a team, each with different focuses.
She has a webcomic, you know. It's really good!
She's a great worldbuilder for sure, you can see it in her webcomic, Aurora. It has a ton of lore behind it
I mean, for essay writing, both Red and Blue have basically been doing a NaNoWriMo per month consistently for the last five years, on top of all their other projects (the most notable is, of course, Philosophy )
@@Candoran2 Really? Thanks for telling me, I'm gonna check it out now
It’s kinda cool how the role of the powerhouse can switch from character to character throughout the course of a series. The example that comes to mind for me is how in the beginning of Fairy Tail (the anime and manga series) Erza starts out as the powerhouse of the group, but over time we start to see Natsu take out characters that beat her one-on-one until eventually, she becomes more like a third fiddle to both Natsu and Gray. However despite being surpassed by them, her big sister-like role in the groups dynamic means that instead of going through a crisis about her relative lack of power, she actually ends up becoming proud of how far they’ve come. But we spend the first couple seasons waiting for her to show up as the powerhouse whenever things go wrong, but eventually we see a shift where her ability to protect her friends long enough for them to grow, resulted in her being sidelined, essentially passing on the torch in the process.
And she never stops being important. Even as Natsu becomes a Time-Eating fire demon and Gray conjures literally Absolute Zero Ice, she’ll still catch both of their attacks with her bare hands and tell them off for being idiots.