I’m fascinated by the underworld emergence/no-god creation. I’m familiar with several Native American emergence stories but know of no other cultures that share that motif, if there are others, I want to know! Also, I am obsessed with the water serpent stories and their origins. If they are truly such an ancient part of human mythology, I wanna plumb those depths 🤓🌊🐍
The flood myths from west Asia coincide with the flooding of the Persian gulf. Studies have shown the Persian gulf was indeed flooded in two separate events: the first around 8000 and the second around 4000 BP give or take, coinciding with local stories of (at least) the second flood. Imhpov, previous myths were then incorporated into the local context. But I am more intrigued by southeastern asian, with too little work done for so many important events. Denisovans last interbred with Sapiens in Papua New Guinea 7.000 years ago! Can you imagine all the races living in Southeast Asia? Denisovans, Sapiens, H. Erectus, H. Floriensis and others... Why there? 🤔 Fun fact: tribes in Tasmania were using 4 tools, whilst in Sunderland, before the flood, they were using 10. What happened? Is this the case for negative evolution?
@@TheAussieRod I read somewhere that the artwork of Aborigines of Australia looks a lot like the artwork of Gobekli Tepe, might be a video here on YT about it, I've not seen it yet, read about it in a comment, I was going to go back and watch it, but forgot, until reading your comment, wish I had a name to go with that video.
There's an amazonian myth from the yawanawa people, called "Awara Nane Putane" in which a hunter abandons his family and goes to live with two sister snakes and their father, he drinks Ayahuasca, realizes they're snakes and a fish warns him to go back, the fish drags him down the river and he goes back to his world, but it started raining for days because the snakes were mad at him, so his tribe hid him and after the snakes couldn't find him they stopped the rain and went back to their world. I hadn't realized it was a flood myth until you talked about snakes controlling rain, it's also the myth for the origins of the traditional use of Ayahuasca.
Interesting. In Indo-European myth, snakes are also linked to both the release of water and mind-altering brews, for example In India, where Indra drinks soma before battling the serpent Vritra, and so releases the waters. In Norse myth, Odin himself changes into a serpent to drink from the mead of poetry, which he then releases in eagle form. Thor is also linked to the acquiring of alcoholic brews, and his fatal fight with Jormungandr the World Serpent results first in fire and poisonous fumes, then in a large flood. Snakes also carry sacred plants, such as the herb of immortality in the Gilgamesh epos, or the forbidden fruit in Genesis.
I was watching that theatre play about a national geographic reporter of indigenous tribes and after the whole performance it ends up in this myth about how he drinks ayahuasca and travels down the river to come back to reality and OMG THANK YOU for this comment because it made sense about how the whole story evolved in that result and its one of my favorite plays so yeah this comment made everything make so much sense thank youou
I reckon fans of this channel would love a deep dive into the younger dryas impact hypothesis. The supporting evidence for a huge volume of meltwater raising sea levels by up to 400 feet around 12,500 years ago is now overwhelming.
His posts all appear to be backed by legit source material, he's not Graham Hancock. There's just too much evidence suggesting YDIH isn't accurate. Obviously we don't have definitive answers, but Graham isn't a scientist, he's a smart guy who showed up with a bias ( that ancient people were advanced because of magic), and ignores all evidence that conflicts with this fantasy.
There is a decent amount of evidence that megafaunal extinction during the pleistocene happened at different times in N America, South America, and europe/Asia. Like hundreds of years of difference, and the gap is even larger for island megafaunal extinctions, which were like thousands of years off. Also, the evidence that he claims regarding nanodiamonds etc are all flawed. Either they have better explanations, or controversial findings haven't been repeatable when tested. They didn't find platinum metals in the appropriate zone. There's just a ton of evidence suggesting this isn't it...🤷♂️
@@SoulStar2332 I don’t believe any of that evidence debunks the hypothesis at all, and it certainly doesn’t support the current theoretical paradigm either. There’s a lot we have left to learn.
I have wondered about the story of Chicken Little with his Sky is Falling paranoia. Caesar writes that the only thing the Gaul's were afraid of was the sky falling. A memory of a bad meteorite shower?
Another great video Jon! I wanted to mention a few things that I have learned since living in Northern Mindanao Philippines. My wife is Higaonon, one of the Lumad (native) tribes in Bukidnon Province. One version of the flood myth is that only one man survived by climbing to the top of Mount Kitanglad. "Tanglad" is the word for "lemongrass", and the implication is that the flood covered all the earth except for the length of a stalk of lemongrass at the top of the mountain. The story goes on to say that he found and rescued a woman who had been smart enough to hold onto a tribal drum so she would not drown. They then went on to repopulate the land after the flood receded. The Talaandig, another Bukidnon tribe, say that the flood was caused by a giant crab going back into the sea and causing the sea to inundate the land. A wise man told the people to build a large raft before the flood came. They were the only ones to survive except for a woman who held onto a tribal drum. The flood covered all the earth except for the top of Mount Dulangdulang which is the tallest mountain in the Kitanglad range and the second tallest in Mindanao after Mount Apo near Davao. Kitanglad is the third tallest. Both the Higaonon and Talaandig stories of the Flood mention Magbabaya, "The one who oversees all", the Creator, and who subsequent to the Flood indicated that a brother could not marry his next youngest sister, hence giving rise to the incest laws of the Bukidnon tribes. I also know that both the Tagalog people in Luzon and the Visayan people in Cebu, Negros, Bohol and Samar and Leyte also believed that the first man and woman emerged from a stem of bamboo, each stem having been pecked open by a giant bird. Here I think we have a few of the motifs you mentioned. The sea creature causing the Flood. The first people emerging from the earth. I think these motifs are very ancient. The Bukidnon creation myth involves Magbabaya and two other beings, one providing the material for creation, a bird-like "referee", and Magbabaya providing the thought. They were all in a very small space called the "banting" before creating everything. The "Bukidnon Trinity" also bears some resemblance to the Hindu trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Siva. I have a feeling that the Flood myth is somewhat older than their creation story.
@@Crecganford The Higaonon and Talaandig tribes both live in the uphill regions of Bukidnon. I found it interesting that there were two common threads to their flood stories. One was the height of the Flood being mentioned as almost to the top of the highest mountain in each of their ancestral lands. The most striking though was that both of their Flood myths stated that a woman not of the people who were warned about the Flood was saved too because she held on to a floating tribal drum. My wife holds the traditional beliefs in Magbabaya and the diwata, even though she was baptized Catholic, as I also am. However, I relate more now to the old ways, where everything has spirit and must be respected, as she also does.
The Philippines are interesting for several reasons: 1. Remains of an archaic species of human, called Homo luzonensis has been discovered in limestone caves of northern Luzon. They are possibly descendants of Asian Homo erectus or similar ancient species. Their remains have been dated from 67,000 years ago to 50,000years ago. There are indications of human presence from 771,00 to 631,000 years ago! (Butchered deer.) Major mind-blower: The Philippines were islands back then. There were no land bridges. The only way to get there is by a sea worthy boat, raft or canoe: 771,000 years ago! (And certainly not by a modern human species!) 2. DNA tests indicate that the Aeta Magbukún people of Central Luzon have the highest percent of Homo Denisovan DNA (around 5%) for any people on earth. The Aeta peoples are traditional hunter gatherers that have lived on Luzon since 40,000 years ago. They are well mixed (10% to 30%) with Austronesian peoples who migrated to the Philippines about 5,000 years ago. Their culture reveres story-tellers! 3. Homo Denisovans were a mostly Asian species of archaic humans. It is estimated they mixed with modern humans as recently as 30,000 years ago. They may have survived until 14,500 years ago. Thus it's possible myths of great floods, fires, wind storms & volcanoes may be older than our modern human species!
Ancient species of humans: Homo erectus, Neanderthals, Denisovans, Homo floresiensism, Homo luzonensis and an ancient species indicated only by DNA may be the source of myths of giants, dwarves & elves. Floresiensis & luzonensis were very small. Denisovans may have been tall and large. Neanderthals were robust & strong. Even today, in Africa, we have Pygmies who are petite and Zulus who are tall. If Pygmies had an encounter with a Zulu would they tell a tale of meeting a giant? Gilgamesh had a friend, Enkidu, described as a wild-man of the forest: could he have been an archaic human species such as Neanderthal or Denisovan? In the Hero Twins: one twin often kills the other. Could one twin be the modern man who kills a "wild-man" species? Is this a possible origin of Cain & Able? (Cain was a farmer who kills his brother, Able, a shepherd. Could there have been a time when "Cain" was a farmer and "Able" was a hunter-gatherer of an archaic species of human?)
Nice video! I am a evolutionary biologist from Taiwan and I really enjoy your video about myth origins. There are lots of flood myth in the various indigenous Austronesian-speaking people in Taiwan. One of the most famous one was told by the Bunun people in Central Taiwan. In the myth, a giant snake blocked the outlet of a river, causing the entire world to be flooded. People and animals seek refuge at mount Jade, the tallest peak in Taiwan. The people seeking refuge suffered from unbearable coldness because of high altitude. Suddenly, someone noticed that there is something burning on another peak across the ocean. After failed attempt to retrieve fire by animal volunteers (a toad and a deer), a black bubul eventually flew back with the fire, reddening its beak and talon, and burned its body in the process. Which is by the way why black bubul is a sacred bird for the Bunun people. Finally, a crab defeated the giant snake and there goes the flood.
I am always so impressed by your ability to make these concepts interesting and comprehensible. This channel is such a powerful learning resource and I'm extremely grateful for the time and energy that you put into it.
It is not exactly a myth of the Flood, but Akuanduba is a characteristic figure of the Araras tribe (inhabitants of northern Brazil), being an entity famous for playing his flute to bring order to the world. It is said that he once threw an entire tribe into the sea to see if they would learn the virtues of obedience. They survived and gave a new direction to their existence.
Iorubá mythology has a version of the flood myth also: Yemanjá, queen of the ocean, had a beatiful son, who shone like the sun and was as black as the night. Humanity, envious of his beauty, tricked and killed him (and in some versions ate his flesh). Yemanjá then, angered and heartbroken, sent the waves to invade the dry lands and rid the Earth of humanity as a whole. Then, when the waves receded, she allowed a new humanity to be born, which might be us.
The Biblical flood is preceded by a strange reference to "the sons of god" interbreeding with the daughters of man to produce the Nephilim. This could refer to interbreeding between different hominin species, which would suggest a very ancient origin.
Or it could represent the explanation for hero stories. “Why was nepheria so strong” Idk, he must have been the son of a God or something. Compare to the related peoples, like the Babylonians, or even the Greeks, who are a bit of an intermixing of the cultures of Europe and the Middle East.
What is more likely. That this single smal civilation was able to remeber the smal, rare and longtime interbreeding between slightly diffrent species 100.00 years ago. Or that the ancient hebrews tried to explain the hero and demigod stories, like Heracles and Gilgamesh. In a way that does not violate their belives.
@@Graptopetalum You might want to look at First Enoch, more commonly called the Book of Enoch. There are five books in total, but the first one should interest you. It greatly expands on Genesis 6, and goes into the Watchers, and the Nephilim.
This is very interesting. I love how statistics are helping in the analysis of mythology and in determining the migration of peoples with these ideas. Young-earth Christian creationists talk like the existence of flood myths in diverse peoples means there was, in reality, a world-wide flood. What it actually indicates is that humans had myths many, many years ago and migrated all over the world and remembered the ancient stories. Another indication that young-earth creationists are very silly.
Thank you for watching, and yes, the mythology I tell, and its links, are almost always backed up by good science in one form or another. And so thank you for appreciating that too.
@@Crecganford oh, this is a good opportunity to ask 2 things: 1. Are you ever singled out and verbally attached by young earthers and anyone attached to creation myth literalism? 2. Have you known anyone in the field to be highly religious who struggled between belief and work over their literal leaning interpretations?
another indication of some people who believe they knew the secret of existence like yourself ? because of a study that doesn't relate to what you've said at all.
I've just stumbled upon you in a search for information about the Great Flood Myth. Thank you so much for this. It is the first comprehensive look at this subject I've seen and it answers many questions that I've had about the plausibility of the popular thinking that a Sumerian myth in the Middle East 5000 years ago traveling all around the world.
This channel is just perfect. I love the subject, there are some things I knew but lots I didn't and I found out and it gave me the kick to start reading about pre ancient history. And the voice of the narrator is very comforting! Great job!
Thank you so much for making scholar works available in such a great way, I owe you hours of enjoyment since I discovered this channel! Please keep giving us those amazing analysis and stories, you became one of my favorite channels ever
Yes! Here in Perú there's the flood myth that states that there was a survivor called Konpanama, he became a god and rebuilt mankind... I cannot tell how much I love your content and how great are your narrations. Thank you for sharing this great stories!
There was definitely movement between Australia and pre-European Indonesia and New Guinea as well as post Dutch colonization of those places so even though this movement was rare the nature of it definitely makes cultural & mythological exchange recently a definite possibility. Love your show and this vid
i love that you reference the statistical analysis used for these published articles in the database. i'm more used to statistical methods used in psychology and medical field so i'll definitely be looking into phylogenetics because i've never studied it before. thank you!
it makes somewhat good sense on how the flood myth upcoming into the world out of Africa got it inspired on the global swifting changes at the end of Ice Age affecting lower-coast areas where people lived elsewhere already there, and as those changes - plus adding the nearby-in-time Toba eruption disaster - were higher on South East Asia settlers before they move on other continents, whereas in Africa there wasn´t a much noticable impact of it. A second change happening in Eurasia around the Black Sea region and later also wisepread through migrations influenced and changed the early flood myths of the Southern East Asia events, after all the global ice-melting floods seems to have happened twice before the begining of Holocene/Recent age-time, with an early flood-melting then a recovery and later on another flood as the Last Dryas glaciation was rather odd compared to the previous ones.
I seem to remember from High School mythology class several myths that included the survivor clinging to a mountain for survival. The Japanese and some of the Polynesian myths seem to come to mind. (its been 35 years). In my mind, the myths of various cultures seem to fit their region especially if you take into account the ice age sea levels. Japan was once connected to Asia. Polynesian was probably a small continent of some kind. Both of which became a series of islands when the seas rose. Randall Carlson on his podcast seems to think there were a series of survivor groups after the flood(s) each in their own pocket of isolation which is where these myths come from. On a side note, I find it interesting that the green dot formed right around where they think the PIE language first formed as well. That's probably not a coincidence either.
Thank you for watching. The green dot; That is just my interpretation as no specific graphs have been made of this, as I said it is generic and not related to any specific myth, it may well have then been east of this by several thousand miles depending on the myth, but the effect would have been the same.
There was never a polynesian continent. The polynesians came from modern taiwan, and only setteled the eastern islands in the middle ages. If you even zhink a little about polynesia. Maybe, just maybe. Did this myth orginate, from them living in very smal islands, that in a strong storm or a tsunami could flood the smal island compleatly.
The Native Americans of the Columbia Plateau have a similar myth where people survived the flood by climbing Lalik (Rattlesnake Mountain near Richland, Washington).
"Emerging from the underworld" seems to be fairly common in the southwestern US, while "earth diving " seems more common in the eastern parts. I have not done much research into this though.
Sky Woman fell down the Trunk of a Tree. The Celestial Tree of the Iriquois is a lot like Yggdrasil. And they both live in long houses very similar accept for the boats. I often thought Sky Woman might have been Odin's Wife
I am unfamiliar with prehistoric seismic activity of the eastern Asian continent. But that would be an excellent explanation for the 60,000+ dates. At the 14,000 date’s I would think the flooding of Doggerland could explain it. At the 6,000 year’s ago I theorize the flooding of the Black Sea influencing Gilgamesh. (Dr Robert Ballard, finder of titanic, announced at the Linus Pauling Memorial Lecture Series his intent to further explore the flooded sea floor. He found a 6,000 year old settlement while searching for Roman ship’s under the Black Sea! Can’t wait to see what he finds!)💚😊🍀
Makes me think of some oceanic radar scans that were done off the coast of Florida in the Bahamas, that clearly showed some ancient stone ruins. Suspiciously enough, a large institution shut down the project after that.....
What a fantastic video! As a southeast asian, I was quite surprised to hear that the flood myths came from this region millenia ago and were evolved from creation myths.
Creation myths without the creation aspect. Remind me of people going into fallout, shelters or rather exiting fallout, shelters and beginning history from the time they exited the underground underworld vaults
Random algorithm. Subscribed. I came from a small village in Malaysia. Born in 1960. Never really left home until I went to boarding school. When I was young and never really knew outside world other than my hometown, (TV only came to our village when I was 12), every time flood came due to monsoon season I always thought the entire world would be flooded flooded as well. I wonder how many more flood stories would be penned if writing came to various places much earlier. However, unlike the Philiphines, I can’t recall any flood myths in my home country.
Thanks - really interesting. There are quite a few known real relatively fast events that might be related to flood myth origins, and I doubt that flood myths started in just one place - rather that older motifs were recycled into the flood myths. Such as the Black sea basin 10,000-ish years ago, and particularly the 31 km wide crater in Greenland, probably about 12800 ybp. That would have caused tsunamis and a deluge (of the vapourised ice) as well as climate change. Dragons and conflagrations (meteor strikes) have not been so uncommon, with the Sodom and Gomorrah story maybe directly from the destruction of Tall el-Hammam in the southern Jordan Valley about 3600 bp, or the vitrification of 60 Scottish hill forts c 2500 bp. Non-creation world beginning stories are most likely survivor stories. The world was re-made and the survivors were blessed.
You bring up a great point! These stories may have originated from different cataclysms, at different times. Moreover the American tribes speak of a projectile falling as they would have seen the meteor hitting Greenland as debris was found in north and central America, while in other parts of the world they wouldn't have seen the meteor but would still be hit with a major tsunami or recount a different event altogether, like the eruption of the volcano in Santorini, which was correlated with stories in the old testament. Regardless of origin, due to isolation, the surviving folks would have thought to be the only survivors which is a common trait to the story.
Myths are talking about reality of creation, birth of hydrogen, transformation in helium, water etc...why people are looking for oceans ?? Its all allegory, analogy and metaphore ! This is the biggest strange thing to me. Maybe you think they was too stupid at time 😂
the idea of the earliest creation myth without creation and just people randomly appearing out from the earth from somewhere spreading out, might be involve some acknowledgement of the self-awareness psychological process of the earliest modern humans appearing in Africa and spreading out of it, where they didn´t much realized on how they came out, just that they just appear out, it´s somewhat similar as the earliest memories of any individual people on child-time around the pree-school or a bit early on, as some random AWAKENING experience with self-awareness of one-self existence yet barely reasoning why they´re there or the world surrounding them, just... it does EXIST and people just appear on there on the Earth coming from somewhere, being the caves from within the earth an analogy of the unknown darkness of self-ignorance or self-awareness of existing before that time!! A psychological approach very much as Campbell did might be quite helpfull to get why those myths rise up that way and then doing analogies between the early evolution of the species and their correspondent analogy-convergence with the individual mind-evolution on ageing might be very helpfull to explain it with common sense and good reason-logical too.
Good points, thanks for sharing. The creational myths are, usually, with no time reference: it happened in a far past. Some of them appoint that certain animals, plants or materials were modified by wise beings, and intelligent humans began existence thanks to that. The story told by Credo Mutwa is interesting: he appointed to 400,000 years ago when human race started, thanks to the intervention of powerful beings, not gods. It is a beautiful myth. In a different stade are a variety of another myths, stories that occured in more recent times, for example the interaction between humans and some powerful entities, or the survival from big catastrophes. Some myths might be stories of events that really happened, and we must try to decode them in order to catch its very origin. Anyway, these issues are fascinating, aren't they?
"For myth is the instant vision of a complex process that ordinarily extends over a long period. Myth is contraction or implosion of any process, and the instant speed of electricity confers the mythic dimension on ordinary industrial and social action today. We live mythically but continue to think fragmentarily and on single planes." [Understanding Media: The Extension of Man, Marshall McLuhan, 1964, Ch. 2: Hot Media and Cold]
Fuck sake, I found this channel by accident yesterday, and now it's my wind down channel after a long night shift. I should be sleeping right now and I'm not even angry about it
In Australian Gunai/Kurnai tradition a giant frog named Tiddalik first drinks up all the water on earth creating a world wide drought but is then tricked into releasing it flooding the land.
This is so interesting. The origin of flood myths is usually explained by actual flooding events from volcanoes, dam breaks or impacts from space that are much younger than human migration. Those motifs need to be part of the conversation of you want to reconstruct the biblical or any other mythological flood
Thanks for your fine research & presentation. It helps confirm a lot of hunches I've had about the connection between earth diver myths, primordial water creation myths, and emergence myths (as I commented and wondered about in one of your videos a short time ago) and is helping me put a lot of puzzle pieces together, finding vestiges of all these things in the Bible and the other Levant mythologies. I feel grateful that you are making these things so freely accessible to the public. I recently discovered Berezkin's Database, excited it existed, and have been lapping it up. I use google translate, which works pretty well (though it's hard to do word searches, it being in Russian). I hope it becomes available in English one of these days.
Excellent. Thank you for the video. Highly educational and informative. I have always been interested in the global flood stories. Very good point view 🤔
I love your content. I am an undergraduate studying linguistics and classics and am fascinated by everything Proto-Indo-European and comparative mythology. How did you enter your field?
I initially studied Anglo-Saxon Literature, and then Old Norse/Icelandic Literature, and there were so many connections I had to investigate, and 25 years later, via a small stint in Religious Studies, I am here.
This is so detailed and complete that I can use the information for both my 7th grade Ancient History and my 12th grade Anthropology classes. Thank you!!!!!
Great video! What an in depth and comprehensive assessment of global flood myths. Much more than I had expected from the title. I like the idea you brought up at the end about creation myths before God, it would be fascinating to learn more about the details of those myths.
You just reminded me of snakes and healing. I know that on the Greek island my Dad came from there is still or was a Christian pilgrimage site that involves leaving milk out for the temple snakes
I just came across one of your videos this morning- it was about "The Oldest Ever Story"- and since watching it- I have now already watched 2 more and am currently holding- "The Origin of Genesis" on pause- so i can write this... Since I can remember- I have always been extraordinarily "curious" about human origins. History is my favorite "blackhole" subject - I easily get lost in learning about the history of literally ANYTHING and everything. I have always questioned things like- how did we suddenly begin- not only just talking- but also understanding each other? Or- Why does it seem as though we all just suddenly knew how to mine and smelt ores and/or farming and animal husbandry... etc. I've found that most of your videos(that i have seen so far) hit on alot of those same topics and questions and I am DELIGHTED to watch each and every video you've made- bc of that. Thank you for the hard work you put into your content! It is fantastic and quite quickly becoming a personal favorite for me! 😊❤ Thanks!
Has anybody tried linking these myths to great catastrophes we know happened? About 75,000 years ago there was a super volcanic eruption on Toba, Indonesia which caused a climate catastrophe across the world, leading to a genetic 'bottleneck' in human evolution. (It's possible only 2,000 to 20,000 breeding pairs of humans survived.) About 39,000 years ago here was a super eruption at Campi Flegrei, near Naples Italy, which may have lead to the decline of the Neanderthals. (It was near the center of their range.) The Great Glaciers melted about 12,000 years ago which caused flooding across the earth and sea levels to rise 100 meters (300 feet.) I've speculated that perhaps the Gilgamesh & Noah flood myths arose for that era. (One investigator speculated that the Garden of Eden was on the valley floor of what is now the Persian Gulf. The valley floor was flooded by the melting of the great glaciers. Today, the Persian Gulf is about 125 feet deep.) South East Asia & Polynesia have typhons & super typhons as well as earthquakes & volcanoes which may have triggered the flood & fire myths. Volcanos & earthquakes trigger tsunamis which could surely convince an ancient person that some god or goddess of the sea or earth was angry with humanity!
Some we can, the Australian myths, which I have a video about, allows us to link a few stories to major geological events in the vicinity of the stories origin.
I have, wrote and compiled a book about it. What is really strange is that very few know and rarely divulge as it is taboo. Follow my Avatar to About then Sites and email, if your in the continental USA I'll send you a copy. I never did get into each of the Ages as there is scant evidence to separate stories and place them with an Age. The most conspicuous is the 12.9ka space debris bombardment of The Younger Dryas Impacts Theory (See list of papers at The Cosmic Tusk and Martin Sweetman even reads through them all.) and there was the ~2300BC Event that some associate with Burckle Crater and tsunami deluge (See Dr. Dallas Abbott and The Comet Research Group) then there is the Bronze Age Collapse maybe from Thera. The Old World and America both say we are in the Fourth Age or Suns and depending where the zero is placed it is hard to count definitively, but it sounds like we have been devastated three times that we recall and when we get hit again it will be the end of the fourth... Personally, I try to not go beyond the formation of the Carolina Bays and Nebraska Rainwater Basins (See Antonio Zamora, there is one video about a bottle neck & Michael Davias's LIDAR images at Cintos Research) because of the above collation problem and the immense research involved (See Randall Carlson for beyond 13ka). This paradigm shift diffidently has push-back related to religion unlike the demise of the dinosaurs, it is as if there is a genetic memory of the trauma to which people go into denial and complete incredulousness. There are a number of cave art which, to me, clearly show the causation with dates well with the Ice Age which line up with the work of Dr. Bill Napier on the progenitor arrival in the inner solar system. It is also completely plausible that the Earth shaking events trigger volcanic activity and contributing to the atmospheric loading that blotted out the sky giving to mythology E.g., Amaterasu going into hiding. Seems everyone believes that solar worship is about daily and seasonal phenomena when it is really about lots of death and long term darkness. The Mesoamericans say this explicitly. When seen in the correct perspective it is amazing how the puzzle pieces fit together after being dumped on the floor ~13ka like real science should work instead of forcing them together, conservative reputations, and politics.
Absolutely amazing! Top quality work! Hard to believe this is a one man show. I get the feeling this video was made faster than I will take to study it. Now I will use the chapters and review it more carefully.
@@Crecganford I guess I will watch it for weeks, cross checking information and assimilating. This is such an important work, I would like to translate it to Portuguese, my main language. Would you like that?
For the record: love your work. Thanks and good on ya Your analysis perplexes me on a particular flood myth: that of the Anishnaabe/Ojibwe It has an Earth Diver motif (muskrat) but their general human origin comes from trees (birch, I believe). What perplexes me is that, even though they're north-central North American in local their tribal origin story begins up off the northeast coast of the continent - somewhere around Nova Scotia. Not an expert on the subject by a long shot but it doesn't quite seem to fit the modeling you propose. I could be wrong, lacking info, or just mistaken... but I'm curious on your thoughts.
I’m Tlingit from Southeast AK, in short, our history Náasshkée Yéil and seemingly his family were here before the flood, he or she was able to heed the flood but his uncle wanted it to happen. Came across someone like him and was likewise here before the flood. After Náasshakée Yéil fixed the world more or less. Making rain washing out the poison that was all over the world. So much more but I rarely see or hear anyone talk about my peoples creations history. So similar to some from other parts of the world. Almost like people traversing between here and there got caught in the flood and survived afterwards becoming who we are now? Gunalchéesh - thank you for the video
Congratulations! The quality of your work is rapidly improving, to where you are becoming a top contender among creators of mythology related content on RUclips.
Love your work, it's a real glimpse into the "Human search for meaning" that I think we might have always had, I remember being captivated by Epic of Gilgamesh in high school!
Interesting! I always pictured the origin of the flood myth in the Bible and Gilgamesh as being a reference to when the sea broke through the Bosporus, flooding all settlements along the (then) Black Sea coast, given the proximity to the Ararat and the Middle East. This event could by people then surely only be explained by divine interference. Maybe it is far older than that then.
That was my original thought many years ago too, and then I thought it might be to do with the creation of the Persian Gulf, but it seems it is far older than that. Thanks for watching.
Thank you, and yes the last few weeks has seen a large growth spurt, I’m a little baffled that year old content suddenly gets 350k views! But I’m happy that more people are getting to hear are old stories and why they exist.
A wonderful presentation. I think many of the Flood Myths had their origins in terrible natural disasters, like large floods, hurricanes/typhoons and megatsunamis. After many years went by the story of these disasters changed through the lens of the religious beliefs or mythology of the peoples. It could be there is a long ancestral memory of the inflooding of what is now the Black Sea, which could have diffused over millennia to different areas and changed as time went by and different peoples were exposed to it.
@@Crecganford Very true. The source could be the Black Sea pouring over the Bosporus and into the area of a low-lying brackish lake according to Dr. Robert Ballard.
You came from the underworld, a cave deep in a mountain, You came out of the cave just after the Flood, When the Water Breaks, the mother knows, New Life is on it's way. The Creation & Flood story is retold every time a baby is born. This is seen in the movement of the stars, 9 months moves the Sun 90 degrees, adding 7 hours realigns the Stars, 3 years and 24 hours, takes the Sun to its 4 aspects, the sun at dawn, the sun at noon, the sun at dusk, and the sun at midnight, the movement of Venus reveals the most, Venus and the Seven is unique, the Pole spin of the Sun and the retrograde days of Venus, are the same as the embryonic stage of the baby, which is 40-43 days, 40 days before birth, is when the head start turning down just before belly of the mother drops, the baby getting ready for birth., I guest its like that old saying "As Above, So Below"
It was a Serpent that causes this flood too. LOL carried there by Manu(Man-New), god of the sea and the trouser trout. LOL The Zodiac is the Goddess, and Orion is her Man, what he holds above his head, came from below his belt, that little bloody red spot, called his Sword. Now drips into the throat (Taurus), fashioned by the Hands of Gemini, being born in the Mountain of Ophiuchus, shaped like a Cave Door, 9 months later, born to the Virgin Virgo, the Belly Button. When the Horizon swallows Taurus, in late November, the hand of Gemini works its magic, now the Sun/Son is entering the cave door of Ophiuchus, the Orion Seed.
This explains why it is all over the world and the different variations over the time mixed with natural events and different names to stars/constellations/landmarks/etc. This also explains the continuity. Mothers told this to daughters as an explanation of birth or as instructions when is the best time? In religious aspect birth is important and mothers health its crucial so the important story would have lived for ages.
"Myths and rite referring to the mythological age, when the great mythological event took place that brought both death and reproduction into play and fixed the destiny of life-in-time through a chain reaction of significantly interlocked transformations, belong rather to the world of the planter than to the shamanistically dominated hunting sphere. Wherever such myth are found in a hunting society, acculturation from horticulture or agricultural center can be supposed." [The Masks of God: Primitive Mythology, Joseph Campbell, 1991, Part 4: "..."]
The flood myth is one of the widespread universal myths known on all inhabited continents from Africa to South America. In the Finnish myth tradition, Väinämöinen is carving a boat on a mountain and accidentally hits his own knee with an ax and as a result the knee starts bleeding and the bleeding doesn't stop until the wound is sealed with a spell (the flood in this myth is that the knee bleeds, causing that the blood fall to the ground and color the heather and the moss). This form has been considered a surviving remnant of an even older myth and the origin of all flood myths and stories is actually this older myth where a primordial giant or monster is killed so that the world can be created from its blood. In later stories, the theme of killing has been left out and blood has become water. And is at least suggested that behind all the flood myths and stories, there is no real event or flood that could have inspired the narrative that, for example, Plato presented in his dialogues as the origin of these universal myths and stories. However, this theory is highly dependent on the Mesoamerican and Australian myth tradition and whether the forms of flood myths and stories they preserve are of independent or common origin.
So the Finnish myth goes like this: the wise sage Väinämöinen is carving a boat on the mountain when his grip loosens and the ax hits his knee. The knee starts to bleed and the bleeding doesn't stop even though Väinämöinen does everything he can. Then a raven or an eagle arrives and tells that Väinämöinen needs a spell and this can be found in the possession of the most powerful Sami shaman who live in Tuonela. Väinämöinen travels to the realm of the dead, the afterlife, and manages to find the necessary words to cast that spell and he sealed his wound.
@@danielmalinen6337 Well, it took another person doing the spell; part of it was knowing the origin of iron. Blood-stopping words was the thing Väinämöinen lacked at the time. The healer lacked the origin of iron. Both improved on their knowledge here. Then Väinämöinen goes back to his boat-building, only he lacks 3 words to finish it. So-- he tries to find the words in Tuonela but the dead don't know either. He barely manages to get away by turning into a snake -- and figures never do that again, what with the beer being so bad, it is not for the living. Next up is the giant Antero Vipunen who does know but it takes some doing before getting the words AND for the giant to let him get out of his belly.
BTW, In Finnic mythology, Väinämöinen carves a boat on top of a mountain and hits the wound in his knee with an ax. Blood flows from the wound, which stains the mountain slopes and heather fields with blood until Väinämöinen heals his wound with magic words and the bleeding stops. Researchers say that this is a Finnish flood myth because 1) Väinämöinen is carving a boat on top of a mountain and 2) there is bleeding blood, which is the most common cause of a flood in flood myths. But, possibly because I'm not a researcher or scholar, I haven't found many flood myths where the cause of the flood is blood bleeding.
Every time you hit the bulls..eye. Thank you Jon. I feel more mindscape; in the cerbral. We are all but part of a Song Line. Peace and 'expanding knowledge' to you; sir.
My cup of tea always has whiskey in it, and as a side note.... I love that you always have the Venus of Willendorf on your shelf behind you in every video ;)
I am partial to the odd glass of whiskey, although not whilst working. And I added to the collection recently, and I am awaiting someone to note it in my next video.
This is an odd episode, as it didn't tell me anything I didn't suspect, but still found it very interesting to follow the analysis and discussion. Like Flood myths; I would expect the inpact of floodings to be so strong that and the event so common that, to paraphrase a much wiser man: "it would be weird if it didn't crop up all the time" (Stephen Fry when talking about unlikely events). I would be more interested in the myths of a culture that didn't have one! Or how myths spread and change with basically the same model as biological evolution (no wonder they use the same terminology): I always assumed they did, ever since I first read Dawkins' defenition of a meme. But there's only one feeling that matches the surprised satisfaction of having assumptions being proven wrong in your field of academic expertise: having your instincts proven valid when making an assumption in a field where you have absolutely NO true expertise, except beyond brushing up against it in a hobbyist pursuit.
My parents actually told me that the existance of flood myths around the world proves that Noah's flood actually happened. Despite the fact that the different myth vary wildly.
The existence of flood myths around the world proves that floods happened around the world, and I would imagine all of the myths didn't actually happen as described.
It did happen. As a scientific fact, remembered by humanity world wide, as the ending of one and the beginning of a new world. There's a lot of our history we are not privy to. Much we never could be, times makes fools of us all
In the Old Testament the Noah story is told twice. In one version a dove is released to look for dry land (it's done a number of days in a row). In the second telling of the tale, the bird released was a raven (or maybe a crow; my recall isn't perfect). Sermons don't generally point out this deviation.
Raven/Crow is a English Transcription/Translation Distinction... Some translators prefer Raven(s) - others Crow(s) - depending on which they believe is more common in Palestine/Levant. The main difference which may be more important is whether the Raven(s)/Crow(s) returned failing to find land; or found land and nested refusing to return to the Ark. Meanwhile the Dove(s) brought back twigs from an olive tree to make a nest in the Ark. Both stories use both stories if I remember correctly use Dove and Raven/Crow; just difference of how they act as an Analogy of Human behavior towards God like Jesus' Sheep versus Goats Sermon.
@@Crecganford You are welcome! It's little things like this that keep alive the myth that an education is actually good for something. (I greatly enjoyed your video! Well done indeed!)
I think our bible tale is merely a reworded version of the deluge..By Plato Written 360 B.C.E To this city came Solon, and was received there with great honour; he asked the priests who were most skilful in such matters, about antiquity, and made the discovery that neither he nor any other Hellene knew anything worth mentioning about the times of old. On one occasion, wishing to draw them on to speak of antiquity, he began to tell about the most ancient things in our part of the world-about Phoroneus, who is called "the first man," and about Niobe; and after the Deluge, of the survival of Deucalion and Pyrrha upon the Ark; and he traced the genealogy of their descendants, and reckoning up the dates, tried to compute how many years ago the events of which he was speaking happened. Thereupon one of the priests, who was of a very great age, said: O Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are never anything but children, and there is not an old man among you. Solon in return asked him what he meant. I mean to say, he replied, that in mind you are all young; there is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition, nor any science which is hoary with age. And I will tell you why. There have been, and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes; the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable other causes. When the gods purge the earth with a deluge of water, the survivors in your country are herdsmen and shepherds who dwell on the mountains, but those who, like you, live in cities are carried by the rivers into the sea. Whereas just when you and other nations are beginning to be provided with letters and the other requisites of civilised life, after the usual interval, the stream from heaven, like a pestilence, comes pouring down, and leaves only those of you who are destitute of letters and education; and so you have to begin all over again like children, and know nothing of what happened in ancient times, either among us or among yourselves. As for those genealogies of yours which you just now recounted to us, Solon, they are no better than the tales of children. In the first place you remember a single deluge only, but there were many previous ones; and this was unknown to you, because, for many generations, the survivors of that destruction died, leaving no written word.
Very interesting to see the movement from Polynesia/Southeast Asia to South America with some of these myths. Is this timed in such a way that it corresponds to the potential contact times some evidence suggests Polynesia's may have had with South America (roughly 800 years ago)? Or is this suggesting something much older? That seems kind of late for this context, but I can understand if the spread was very slow.
I find this topic and your channel very interesting! I do wish I could be more convinced, though. Can't floods happen practically anywhere? And given the tendency of early humans to settle near water (e.g. around rivers as in the case of the Tigris, Nile, Indus, and Yellow River, along coasts as with Caral-Supe), I would be surprised if each of these locations did not experience their own catastrophic flooding events and evolve flood myths independently. A comparable phenomenon is present in biological evolution, whereby seemingly similar/identical structures are formed through unrelated evolutionary pathways (i.e. convergent evolution). I think the eye is probably the most famous example. Also, some of these flood myths have tantalizing archaeological evidence. In China, where the flood is the single most important myth of that culture and serves as an origin story for political organization, geological data suggests a massive outburst flood along the Yellow River dating to 1900 BC (Wu et al, Science, 2016). This would coincide rather nicely with the establishment of the quasi-mythological Xia dynasty, which is traditionally said to have been founded by an engineer/project manager-type guy named Yu who mopped up the flood (!). In any case, I've learned a lot from this channel and am fascinated by work of comparing and synthesizing myths, but I do feel it'd be fair to point out the open-endedness of these questions.
Thank you for watching, and for taking the time to comment. Your questions are very valid, which is why I talk about motifs and the "individualization" of flood myths to try and remove the thought that they are the same or are all different. This helps us build up confidence in the results of the study. I have linked to the papers in the description if you wish to dive deeper into the science. Thanks again.
From what I’ve seen, a lot of these flood myths come from island nations or areas next to large bodies of water or areas that had large bodies of water in the past. Areas that would naturally be prone to flooding.
This kind of idea was something I have been thinking about for a long time, reflecting on the flood myths: water is everywhere, Floods are common. Also, I would suggest, the human habit of embellishing and enflating stories. Imagine being the oldest of the tribe, sitting around the fire, and telling the legend you heard from your grandfather. Whatever you heard 40 - 50 years ago, you double it. It makes for better drama and we tell stories not just to the listeners, but to ourselves too. And an old story, told many times, gets boring, firs of all, for the narrator. So that time when a cat scratched our grandpa, becomes the time when he fought a tiger. But the informations from the channel are giving me a deeper appreciation of the complexity of the subject
I would be interested to hear about the expansion from the PIE homeland and your thoughts on various versions of the Black Sea deluge hypotheses. Do you think the IE myth repackaged an older myth with a real life event?
It's possible that in the 2nd millenium BC, the Minoans/Phoenicians sailed the planet, and spread the Mesopotamian myths around. The arc flood myth for example. Would turn many of these theories on their heads.
@@Crecganford I'd disagree. Look up "the Antikythera mechanism" found in a 2k yo Greek shipwreck, which after over a century of study turns out to be a geared analog astronomical computer. Earth-centered, it could _very_ accurately predict locations of the stars, planets and _EVEN_ lunar and solar eclipses. Such a device could've _easily_ been used for celestial navigation around the globe and this was in a device dated to 100 B.C.E. give or take 30 years. It's no stretch that the Minoans and Phoenicians could find their way around a giant ball back home with the undoubtable 1st edition paper version of the Greek Antikythera mechanism. Also just because there's no DNA evidence only provides evidence the Minoans and Phoenicians kept their snakes in a cage... Ever since the demise of the great library of Alexandria and its vast wealth of ancient knowledge lost to time, modern academia seems to have been bred without manners to respect our elders, our ancestors. Imagining them as barely more than 'cavemen' without GPS or even a map and compass, instead of as capable problem solving minds. The Romans routinely did _successful_ cataract and even brain surgeries, give the old generations some credit.
It is interesting to me that there are people out there talking about whether the world was ever flooded or not. In case anyone out there is oblivious to the obvious, it is still flooded. One big ocean wrapping around all of the land masses. The current narrative shows us videos of structures under the oceans of the world and they are located under the oceans because... wait for it... it was, and still is flooded. How it got flooded may be up for debate; but whether it was flooded should be obvious.
I may have missed it, but I'm curious if there's any connection between the timing of the propagation of the myth and the changes that occurred to the myth that made it so varied. It seems as though you might be able to connect major flooding events with a spike in the variety of flood myths being told in a relatively short timespan, or even vice versa - I feel like the Younger Dryas climate change era should have been accompanied by a massive increase in the popularity and diversity of flood myths.
I have tried to mention when motifs split and grew, some happened post African dispersal, some in Asia and Northern Eurasia. I have referenced to the original papers in the description if you want a deeper dive.
It makes sense that a flood myth would not involve Africa, being nearly a giant plateau it would be much less affected by rising water levels. It's also obvious that the flood myth would originate with seafaring people, since it attaches great importance to seafaring people, even setting aside the myth's ability to disseminate across seas.
I love your work, and I'm really invested in it, but I have to ask how close to the mainstream of your field do you stick to? I don't mean that to be insulting ❤
A good question if you're unaware of the field. The papers I reference are from a researcher and project that is currently active, and who personally updates me. So I would say I am on top of it. But it doesn't mean there aren't alternative thoughts, but just none that convince me yet.
Floods are possible in every part of the Earth So it can be possible that there would have been Flood due to Heavy Rain (Like 500 year Rain), Tsunami, or even due to Sea level rise due to Burst of Glacial Lakes which had formed in North America and Siberia And these were created independently
My arguments would be around motif dispersal, from up to ten motif types, would evidence against this, and that is without looking at any geological arguments. And so my thoughts are for now, not supportive of a world wide flood.
@@Crecganford Logically speaking, a worldwide flood is practically impossible But, since world was a small place form the point of view of our ancestors, so a really big flood or some other event similar to that might had been world wide for them That's my hypothesis
@@basantprasadsgarden8365 If an asteroid hit the worlds ocean 🌊🌊🌊 It could be flooded everywhere. Even a massive underwater earthquake can have near global effects. Take into account another factor. That is oral tradition. If enough people experienced it they would tell their children and their children. Obviously not all people had ancestors that lived through said event. But they would share in the experience of the story. And it would be a powerful unifying tool. That's why these stories survived. Because it is a sense of victory and destiny over calamity. Who wouldn't want to hear that the gods/god chose your ancestors to live on and repopulate the earth?
Thought experiment: if the cultures that have the motifs of deity or celestial being dying, falling to the earth, then flood all are radial similar distances to the proposed Younger Dryas impact site that can be a connecting thread. Following the causality of the impact into the N.A. ice sheet covers a lot of motifs for the more removed cultures (deluge, then flooding).
Indeed, most pre civilization cultures lived along way from what would be considered our current shorelines, 400 metres lower and possibly kilometers out, any fast rising sea levels could have been perceived as a deluge, in fact the next phase of Archeological study is going to be using scuba gear, Bulgarians have already found stone henges at the bottom of the black sea, and of course back then it was a fresh water lake before the ice walls to the north collapsed, maybe the So called Atlantis is sitting on what was an island at the bottom?
There is a serious flaw in the diffusion theory of the flood myth in the fact that the Australian flood myths are very specific to particular areas of land that were actually flooded, including the land bridge between the mainland and Tasmania, the Port Philip Bay at Melbourne and of course the Great Barrier Reef. Aboriginal people maintained oral histories of when those places were sold land, and of the time of their flooding. So this is not a story that spread from somewhere else but actual history recorded in mythologised form in this country.
Thank you for your thoughts. I do have a specific video about the Australian flood myth. This video is about the flood myth we see happen after creation in mythologies which is a very different context for the flood.
@@Crecganford I will have to check out your Australian flood myth video. I am not sure which particular sources you are relying on for this one but one really can’t speak of “an Australian flood myth”. Mythology here is always localised ie specific to local places and conditions. I am actually about to start some comparative research between Australia and Central Europe and would love the chance to chat with you if you are open to that.
These myths generally always are multifaceted. That is to say there are always multiple layers of interpretations due to how well fashioned the stories are
I'm not seeing any motifs that really call that out, unless there is an analogy is around the "hole". But that is a challenge to prove. Thanks for watching, and a great question.
I have been thinking about that... maybe on a new and separate channel though, so as not to upset the algorithm gods that have so kindly accepted my sacrifice of a couple of cups of tea.
Would you like to hear more about the Creation Myth mentioned in this video? Or is there another myth you want to hear more about?
This got me curious about myth co-occurance. Is there much research on the subject?
I’m fascinated by the underworld emergence/no-god creation. I’m familiar with several Native American emergence stories but know of no other cultures that share that motif, if there are others, I want to know! Also, I am obsessed with the water serpent stories and their origins. If they are truly such an ancient part of human mythology, I wanna plumb those depths 🤓🌊🐍
The flood myths from west Asia coincide with the flooding of the Persian gulf.
Studies have shown the Persian gulf was indeed flooded in two separate events: the first around 8000 and the second around 4000 BP give or take, coinciding with local stories of (at least) the second flood.
Imhpov, previous myths were then incorporated into the local context.
But I am more intrigued by southeastern asian, with too little work done for so many important events.
Denisovans last interbred with Sapiens in Papua New Guinea 7.000 years ago!
Can you imagine all the races living in Southeast Asia? Denisovans, Sapiens, H. Erectus, H. Floriensis and others... Why there? 🤔
Fun fact: tribes in Tasmania were using 4 tools, whilst in Sunderland, before the flood, they were using 10. What happened? Is this the case for negative evolution?
@@TheAussieRod I read somewhere that the artwork of Aborigines of Australia looks a lot like the artwork of Gobekli Tepe, might be a video here on YT about it, I've not seen it yet, read about it in a comment, I was going to go back and watch it, but forgot, until reading your comment, wish I had a name to go with that video.
@@liquidconstellations 🧜♂️ c'est enki le serpent d'eau ( lucifer) dont je suis le descandant par les signes!
There's an amazonian myth from the yawanawa people, called "Awara Nane Putane" in which a hunter abandons his family and goes to live with two sister snakes and their father, he drinks Ayahuasca, realizes they're snakes and a fish warns him to go back, the fish drags him down the river and he goes back to his world, but it started raining for days because the snakes were mad at him, so his tribe hid him and after the snakes couldn't find him they stopped the rain and went back to their world.
I hadn't realized it was a flood myth until you talked about snakes controlling rain, it's also the myth for the origins of the traditional use of Ayahuasca.
Thank you for sharing that, I love hearing stories like this.
and that's why all in that area are high af
Interesting. In Indo-European myth, snakes are also linked to both the release of water and mind-altering brews, for example In India, where Indra drinks soma before battling the serpent Vritra, and so releases the waters. In Norse myth, Odin himself changes into a serpent to drink from the mead of poetry, which he then releases in eagle form. Thor is also linked to the acquiring of alcoholic brews, and his fatal fight with Jormungandr the World Serpent results first in fire and poisonous fumes, then in a large flood. Snakes also carry sacred plants, such as the herb of immortality in the Gilgamesh epos, or the forbidden fruit in Genesis.
Yamnaya? .... Who knows
I was watching that theatre play about a national geographic reporter of indigenous tribes and after the whole performance it ends up in this myth about how he drinks ayahuasca and travels down the river to come back to reality and OMG THANK YOU for this comment because it made sense about how the whole story evolved in that result and its one of my favorite plays so yeah this comment made everything make so much sense thank youou
I reckon fans of this channel would love a deep dive into the younger dryas impact hypothesis. The supporting evidence for a huge volume of meltwater raising sea levels by up to 400 feet around 12,500 years ago is now overwhelming.
His posts all appear to be backed by legit source material, he's not Graham Hancock. There's just too much evidence suggesting YDIH isn't accurate. Obviously we don't have definitive answers, but Graham isn't a scientist, he's a smart guy who showed up with a bias ( that ancient people were advanced because of magic), and ignores all evidence that conflicts with this fantasy.
There is a decent amount of evidence that megafaunal extinction during the pleistocene happened at different times in N America, South America, and europe/Asia. Like hundreds of years of difference, and the gap is even larger for island megafaunal extinctions, which were like thousands of years off.
Also, the evidence that he claims regarding nanodiamonds etc are all flawed. Either they have better explanations, or controversial findings haven't been repeatable when tested. They didn't find platinum metals in the appropriate zone. There's just a ton of evidence suggesting this isn't it...🤷♂️
@@SoulStar2332 I don’t believe any of that evidence debunks the hypothesis at all, and it certainly doesn’t support the current theoretical paradigm either. There’s a lot we have left to learn.
I am very familiar with what your talking about but as always "mainstream academia" will always make it "HIS..STORY" . It's like how we
I have wondered about the story of Chicken Little with his Sky is Falling paranoia. Caesar writes that the only thing the Gaul's were afraid of was the sky falling. A memory of a bad meteorite shower?
Another great video Jon! I wanted to mention a few things that I have learned since living in Northern Mindanao Philippines. My wife is Higaonon, one of the Lumad (native) tribes in Bukidnon Province. One version of the flood myth is that only one man survived by climbing to the top of Mount Kitanglad. "Tanglad" is the word for "lemongrass", and the implication is that the flood covered all the earth except for the length of a stalk of lemongrass at the top of the mountain. The story goes on to say that he found and rescued a woman who had been smart enough to hold onto a tribal drum so she would not drown. They then went on to repopulate the land after the flood receded. The Talaandig, another Bukidnon tribe, say that the flood was caused by a giant crab going back into the sea and causing the sea to inundate the land. A wise man told the people to build a large raft before the flood came. They were the only ones to survive except for a woman who held onto a tribal drum. The flood covered all the earth except for the top of Mount Dulangdulang which is the tallest mountain in the Kitanglad range and the second tallest in Mindanao after Mount Apo near Davao. Kitanglad is the third tallest. Both the Higaonon and Talaandig stories of the Flood mention Magbabaya, "The one who oversees all", the Creator, and who subsequent to the Flood indicated that a brother could not marry his next youngest sister, hence giving rise to the incest laws of the Bukidnon tribes. I also know that both the Tagalog people in Luzon and the Visayan people in Cebu, Negros, Bohol and Samar and Leyte also believed that the first man and woman emerged from a stem of bamboo, each stem having been pecked open by a giant bird. Here I think we have a few of the motifs you mentioned. The sea creature causing the Flood. The first people emerging from the earth. I think these motifs are very ancient. The Bukidnon creation myth involves Magbabaya and two other beings, one providing the material for creation, a bird-like "referee", and Magbabaya providing the thought. They were all in a very small space called the "banting" before creating everything. The "Bukidnon Trinity" also bears some resemblance to the Hindu trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Siva. I have a feeling that the Flood myth is somewhat older than their creation story.
Thank you for watching, but thank you even more for sharing this. I love hearing these stories and thoughts, and this was fantastic. Thank you.
@@Crecganford The Higaonon and Talaandig tribes both live in the uphill regions of Bukidnon. I found it interesting that there were two common threads to their flood stories. One was the height of the Flood being mentioned as almost to the top of the highest mountain in each of their ancestral lands. The most striking though was that both of their Flood myths stated that a woman not of the people who were warned about the Flood was saved too because she held on to a floating tribal drum. My wife holds the traditional beliefs in Magbabaya and the diwata, even though she was baptized Catholic, as I also am. However, I relate more now to the old ways, where everything has spirit and must be respected, as she also does.
The Philippines are interesting for several reasons:
1. Remains of an archaic species of human, called Homo luzonensis has been discovered in limestone caves of northern Luzon. They are possibly descendants of Asian Homo erectus or similar ancient species. Their remains have been dated from 67,000 years ago to 50,000years ago. There are indications of human presence from 771,00 to 631,000 years ago! (Butchered deer.) Major mind-blower: The Philippines were islands back then. There were no land bridges. The only way to get there is by a sea worthy boat, raft or canoe: 771,000 years ago! (And certainly not by a modern human species!)
2. DNA tests indicate that the Aeta Magbukún people of Central Luzon have the highest percent of Homo Denisovan DNA (around 5%) for any people on earth. The Aeta peoples are traditional hunter gatherers that have lived on Luzon since 40,000 years ago. They are well mixed (10% to 30%) with Austronesian peoples who migrated to the Philippines about 5,000 years ago. Their culture reveres story-tellers!
3. Homo Denisovans were a mostly Asian species of archaic humans. It is estimated they mixed with modern humans as recently as 30,000 years ago. They may have survived until 14,500 years ago.
Thus it's possible myths of great floods, fires, wind storms & volcanoes may be older than our modern human species!
Ancient species of humans: Homo erectus, Neanderthals, Denisovans, Homo floresiensism, Homo luzonensis and an ancient species indicated only by DNA may be the source of myths of giants, dwarves & elves. Floresiensis & luzonensis were very small. Denisovans may have been tall and large. Neanderthals were robust & strong. Even today, in Africa, we have Pygmies who are petite and Zulus who are tall. If Pygmies had an encounter with a Zulu would they tell a tale of meeting a giant?
Gilgamesh had a friend, Enkidu, described as a wild-man of the forest: could he have been an archaic human species such as Neanderthal or Denisovan? In the Hero Twins: one twin often kills the other. Could one twin be the modern man who kills a "wild-man" species? Is this a possible origin of Cain & Able? (Cain was a farmer who kills his brother, Able, a shepherd. Could there have been a time when "Cain" was a farmer and "Able" was a hunter-gatherer of an archaic species of human?)
@@DogWalkerBill All of that is possible!
Nice video! I am a evolutionary biologist from Taiwan and I really enjoy your video about myth origins. There are lots of flood myth in the various indigenous Austronesian-speaking people in Taiwan. One of the most famous one was told by the Bunun people in Central Taiwan. In the myth, a giant snake blocked the outlet of a river, causing the entire world to be flooded. People and animals seek refuge at mount Jade, the tallest peak in Taiwan. The people seeking refuge suffered from unbearable coldness because of high altitude. Suddenly, someone noticed that there is something burning on another peak across the ocean. After failed attempt to retrieve fire by animal volunteers (a toad and a deer), a black bubul eventually flew back with the fire, reddening its beak and talon, and burned its body in the process. Which is by the way why black bubul is a sacred bird for the Bunun people. Finally, a crab defeated the giant snake and there goes the flood.
I am always so impressed by your ability to make these concepts interesting and comprehensible. This channel is such a powerful learning resource and I'm extremely grateful for the time and energy that you put into it.
Thank you for watching and for taking the time to comment and say such kind words. It is appreciated.
It is not exactly a myth of the Flood, but Akuanduba is a characteristic figure of the Araras tribe (inhabitants of northern Brazil), being an entity famous for playing his flute to bring order to the world. It is said that he once threw an entire tribe into the sea to see if they would learn the virtues of obedience. They survived and gave a new direction to their existence.
This is the kind of history lessons I wish schools taught me, love the content!
And thank you for watching it!
It's not literally history, it is however all the different flood myths.
Iorubá mythology has a version of the flood myth also:
Yemanjá, queen of the ocean, had a beatiful son, who shone like the sun and was as black as the night. Humanity, envious of his beauty, tricked and killed him (and in some versions ate his flesh). Yemanjá then, angered and heartbroken, sent the waves to invade the dry lands and rid the Earth of humanity as a whole. Then, when the waves receded, she allowed a new humanity to be born, which might be us.
Thank you for sharing this, I love hearing about the stories people know.
Very cool. Sounds like a flood after an eclipse
macumbeiro
@@DaviRenania isso é elogio ou detrimento?
De qualquer forma, tamo aê 🤙
@@JCRS92 KKKKKKK nenhum dos dois
The Biblical flood is preceded by a strange reference to "the sons of god" interbreeding with the daughters of man to produce the Nephilim. This could refer to interbreeding between different hominin species, which would suggest a very ancient origin.
Or it could represent the explanation for hero stories.
“Why was nepheria so strong”
Idk, he must have been the son of a God or something.
Compare to the related peoples, like the Babylonians, or even the Greeks, who are a bit of an intermixing of the cultures of Europe and the Middle East.
What is more likely. That this single smal civilation was able to remeber the smal, rare and longtime interbreeding between slightly diffrent species 100.00 years ago.
Or that the ancient hebrews tried to explain the hero and demigod stories, like Heracles and Gilgamesh. In a way that does not violate their belives.
@@hailgiratinathetruegod7564 I'm not sure it's either or here. This channel does seem to suggest that stories can be preserved a very long time.
@@dstinnettmusic There's also such a thing as hybrid vigor which causes hybrids to be stronger than the parent species.
@@Graptopetalum You might want to look at First Enoch, more commonly called the Book of Enoch. There are five books in total, but the first one should interest you. It greatly expands on Genesis 6, and goes into the Watchers, and the Nephilim.
Been binging your videos for about 3 days now right when I get home from work, this is probably my favorite one so far! Keep up the good work.
Thank you for watching and your kind words.
This is very interesting. I love how statistics are helping in the analysis of mythology and in determining the migration of peoples with these ideas.
Young-earth Christian creationists talk like the existence of flood myths in diverse peoples means there was, in reality, a world-wide flood. What it actually indicates is that humans had myths many, many years ago and migrated all over the world and remembered the ancient stories. Another indication that young-earth creationists are very silly.
Thank you for watching, and yes, the mythology I tell, and its links, are almost always backed up by good science in one form or another. And so thank you for appreciating that too.
@@Crecganford oh, this is a good opportunity to ask 2 things:
1. Are you ever singled out and verbally attached by young earthers and anyone attached to creation myth literalism?
2. Have you known anyone in the field to be highly religious who struggled between belief and work over their literal leaning interpretations?
another indication of some people who believe they knew the secret of existence like yourself ? because of a study that doesn't relate to what you've said at all.
Good science? Lmao. Diana, ur silly.
I've just stumbled upon you in a search for information about the Great Flood Myth. Thank you so much for this. It is the first comprehensive look at this subject I've seen and it answers many questions that I've had about the plausibility of the popular thinking that a Sumerian myth in the Middle East 5000 years ago traveling all around the world.
This channel is just perfect. I love the subject, there are some things I knew but lots I didn't and I found out and it gave me the kick to start reading about pre ancient history. And the voice of the narrator is very comforting! Great job!
Thank you so much for watching the videos, and your kind words are appreciated.
Thank you so much for making scholar works available in such a great way, I owe you hours of enjoyment since I discovered this channel! Please keep giving us those amazing analysis and stories, you became one of my favorite channels ever
Thank you for your very kind words, they are appreciated.
Yes! Here in Perú there's the flood myth that states that there was a survivor called Konpanama, he became a god and rebuilt mankind...
I cannot tell how much I love your content and how great are your narrations. Thank you for sharing this great stories!
Thank you so much for your kind words, they are very much appreciated
There was definitely movement between Australia and pre-European Indonesia and New Guinea as well as post Dutch colonization of those places so even though this movement was rare the nature of it definitely makes cultural & mythological exchange recently a definite possibility. Love your show and this vid
i love that you reference the statistical analysis used for these published articles in the database. i'm more used to statistical methods used in psychology and medical field so i'll definitely be looking into phylogenetics because i've never studied it before. thank you!
I’ll do a specific talk about this in a few weeks,a mythology and phylogenetics 101.
it makes somewhat good sense on how the flood myth upcoming into the world out of Africa got it inspired on the global swifting changes at the end of Ice Age affecting lower-coast areas where people lived elsewhere already there, and as those changes - plus adding the nearby-in-time Toba eruption disaster - were higher on South East Asia settlers before they move on other continents, whereas in Africa there wasn´t a much noticable impact of it. A second change happening in Eurasia around the Black Sea region and later also wisepread through migrations influenced and changed the early flood myths of the Southern East Asia events, after all the global ice-melting floods seems to have happened twice before the begining of Holocene/Recent age-time, with an early flood-melting then a recovery and later on another flood as the Last Dryas glaciation was rather odd compared to the previous ones.
I seem to remember from High School mythology class several myths that included the survivor clinging to a mountain for survival. The Japanese and some of the Polynesian myths seem to come to mind. (its been 35 years). In my mind, the myths of various cultures seem to fit their region especially if you take into account the ice age sea levels. Japan was once connected to Asia. Polynesian was probably a small continent of some kind. Both of which became a series of islands when the seas rose. Randall Carlson on his podcast seems to think there were a series of survivor groups after the flood(s) each in their own pocket of isolation which is where these myths come from. On a side note, I find it interesting that the green dot formed right around where they think the PIE language first formed as well. That's probably not a coincidence either.
Thank you for watching. The green dot; That is just my interpretation as no specific graphs have been made of this, as I said it is generic and not related to any specific myth, it may well have then been east of this by several thousand miles depending on the myth, but the effect would have been the same.
There was never a polynesian continent. The polynesians came from modern taiwan, and only setteled the eastern islands in the middle ages.
If you even zhink a little about polynesia. Maybe, just maybe. Did this myth orginate, from them living in very smal islands, that in a strong storm or a tsunami could flood the smal island compleatly.
The Native Americans of the Columbia Plateau have a similar myth where people survived the flood by climbing Lalik (Rattlesnake Mountain near Richland, Washington).
"Emerging from the underworld" seems to be fairly common in the southwestern US, while "earth diving " seems more common in the eastern parts. I have not done much research into this though.
Could be related,
Afterall, you cannot emerge from the underworld without doing some earth diving.
Sky Woman fell down the Trunk of a Tree. The Celestial Tree of the Iriquois is a lot like Yggdrasil. And they both live in long houses very similar accept for the boats. I often thought Sky Woman might have been Odin's Wife
Epic! A maximum parsimony analysis of our historical flood myths - thank you for another fantastic video!!
And thank you for all your support!
I am unfamiliar with prehistoric seismic activity of the eastern Asian continent. But that would be an excellent explanation for the 60,000+ dates. At the 14,000 date’s I would think the flooding of Doggerland could explain it. At the 6,000 year’s ago I theorize the flooding of the Black Sea influencing Gilgamesh. (Dr Robert Ballard, finder of titanic, announced at the Linus Pauling Memorial Lecture Series his intent to further explore the flooded sea floor. He found a 6,000 year old settlement while searching for Roman ship’s under the Black Sea! Can’t wait to see what he finds!)💚😊🍀
I agree I believe dogger land floods would have lead to migrations and the creation of the oral traditions
Makes me think of some oceanic radar scans that were done off the coast of Florida in the Bahamas, that clearly showed some ancient stone ruins. Suspiciously enough, a large institution shut down the project after that.....
What a fantastic video! As a southeast asian, I was quite surprised to hear that the flood myths came from this region millenia ago and were evolved from creation myths.
Thank you for your kind words, they are appreciated.
Creation myths without the creation aspect. Remind me of people going into fallout, shelters or rather exiting fallout, shelters and beginning history from the time they exited the underground underworld vaults
Random algorithm. Subscribed. I came from a small village in Malaysia. Born in 1960. Never really left home until I went to boarding school. When I was young and never really knew outside world other than my hometown, (TV only came to our village when I was 12), every time flood came due to monsoon season I always thought the entire world would be flooded flooded as well. I wonder how many more flood stories would be penned if writing came to various places much earlier. However, unlike the Philiphines, I can’t recall any flood myths in my home country.
Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment and subscribe. I hope like the stories here and stay for more.
Thank you immensely for explaining all this academic research into layman's terms 🙏
And thank you for watching it
Thanks - really interesting. There are quite a few known real relatively fast events that might be related to flood myth origins, and I doubt that flood myths started in just one place - rather that older motifs were recycled into the flood myths. Such as the Black sea basin 10,000-ish years ago, and particularly the 31 km wide crater in Greenland, probably about 12800 ybp. That would have caused tsunamis and a deluge (of the vapourised ice) as well as climate change. Dragons and conflagrations (meteor strikes) have not been so uncommon, with the Sodom and Gomorrah story maybe directly from the destruction of Tall el-Hammam in the southern Jordan Valley about 3600 bp, or the vitrification of 60 Scottish hill forts c 2500 bp. Non-creation world beginning stories are most likely survivor stories. The world was re-made and the survivors were blessed.
You bring up a great point! These stories may have originated from different cataclysms, at different times. Moreover the American tribes speak of a projectile falling as they would have seen the meteor hitting Greenland as debris was found in north and central America, while in other parts of the world they wouldn't have seen the meteor but would still be hit with a major tsunami or recount a different event altogether, like the eruption of the volcano in Santorini, which was correlated with stories in the old testament. Regardless of origin, due to isolation, the surviving folks would have thought to be the only survivors which is a common trait to the story.
Myths are talking about reality of creation, birth of hydrogen, transformation in helium, water etc...why people are looking for oceans ?? Its all allegory, analogy and metaphore !
This is the biggest strange thing to me. Maybe you think they was too stupid at time 😂
@@Looopppidk man sounds schizo😊
Great video! Next time I will be better prepared and get myself a cup of tea to enjoy your videos even more. Thank you.
A cup of tea will double your viewing pleasure…
the idea of the earliest creation myth without creation and just people randomly appearing out from the earth from somewhere spreading out, might be involve some acknowledgement of the self-awareness psychological process of the earliest modern humans appearing in Africa and spreading out of it, where they didn´t much realized on how they came out, just that they just appear out, it´s somewhat similar as the earliest memories of any individual people on child-time around the pree-school or a bit early on, as some random AWAKENING experience with self-awareness of one-self existence yet barely reasoning why they´re there or the world surrounding them, just... it does EXIST and people just appear on there on the Earth coming from somewhere, being the caves from within the earth an analogy of the unknown darkness of self-ignorance or self-awareness of existing before that time!!
A psychological approach very much as Campbell did might be quite helpfull to get why those myths rise up that way and then doing analogies between the early evolution of the species and their correspondent analogy-convergence with the individual mind-evolution on ageing might be very helpfull to explain it with common sense and good reason-logical too.
WTF? Are you high? Your comment makes no sense at all, what is your point or are you just rambling?
Good points, thanks for sharing.
The creational myths are, usually, with no time reference: it happened in a far past. Some of them appoint that certain animals, plants or materials were modified by wise beings, and intelligent humans began existence thanks to that.
The story told by Credo Mutwa is interesting: he appointed to 400,000 years ago when human race started, thanks to the intervention of powerful beings, not gods. It is a beautiful myth.
In a different stade are a variety of another myths, stories that occured in more recent times, for example the interaction between humans and some powerful entities, or the survival from big catastrophes.
Some myths might be stories of events that really happened, and we must try to decode them in order to catch its very origin.
Anyway, these issues are fascinating, aren't they?
"For myth is the instant vision of a complex process that ordinarily extends over a long period. Myth is contraction or implosion of any process, and the instant speed of electricity confers the mythic dimension on ordinary industrial and social action today. We live mythically but continue to think fragmentarily and on single planes."
[Understanding Media: The Extension of Man, Marshall McLuhan, 1964, Ch. 2: Hot Media and Cold]
Fuck sake, I found this channel by accident yesterday, and now it's my wind down channel after a long night shift. I should be sleeping right now and I'm not even angry about it
I think that's a compliment, thank you if it is :)
@@Crecganford It definitely is. 👍
In Australian Gunai/Kurnai tradition a giant frog named Tiddalik first drinks up all the water on earth creating a world wide drought but is then tricked into releasing it flooding the land.
The thought I had on my mind at the end of the video was basically "humans and their love for stories" :p
This is so interesting. The origin of flood myths is usually explained by actual flooding events from volcanoes, dam breaks or impacts from space that are much younger than human migration. Those motifs need to be part of the conversation of you want to reconstruct the biblical or any other mythological flood
Thanks for your fine research & presentation. It helps confirm a lot of hunches I've had about the connection between earth diver myths, primordial water creation myths, and emergence myths (as I commented and wondered about in one of your videos a short time ago) and is helping me put a lot of puzzle pieces together, finding vestiges of all these things in the Bible and the other Levant mythologies. I feel grateful that you are making these things so freely accessible to the public.
I recently discovered Berezkin's Database, excited it existed, and have been lapping it up. I use google translate, which works pretty well (though it's hard to do word searches, it being in Russian). I hope it becomes available in English one of these days.
Thank you for watching, and for taking the time to comment
New subscriber. This channel is amazing and after deprogramming all the stuff I was taught as a child of christians is so good to find out the truth!
Thank you, and I do try and read all comments, and so if you have any questions I will try and respond.
Excellent. Thank you for the video. Highly educational and informative. I have always been interested in the global flood stories. Very good point view 🤔
Thank you for your kind words, they are much appreciated.
I just realised the modern blockbuster apocaliptic movies are versions of those myths lol
I love your content. I am an undergraduate studying linguistics and classics and am fascinated by everything Proto-Indo-European and comparative mythology. How did you enter your field?
I initially studied Anglo-Saxon Literature, and then Old Norse/Icelandic Literature, and there were so many connections I had to investigate, and 25 years later, via a small stint in Religious Studies, I am here.
This is so detailed and complete that I can use the information for both my 7th grade Ancient History and my 12th grade Anthropology classes. Thank you!!!!!
I'm glad I could help!
This channel is a treasure! So well spoken, easy listening. Love the content and how you present it!
Thank you so much for your comment and for watching.
Great video! What an in depth and comprehensive assessment of global flood myths. Much more than I had expected from the title. I like the idea you brought up at the end about creation myths before God, it would be fascinating to learn more about the details of those myths.
Thank you for watching, and for leaving a comment.
You just reminded me of snakes and healing. I know that on the Greek island my Dad came from there is still or was a Christian pilgrimage site that involves leaving milk out for the temple snakes
And here I thought "milking the snake" meant something else.
I just came across one of your videos this morning- it was about "The Oldest Ever Story"- and since watching it- I have now already watched 2 more and am currently holding- "The Origin of Genesis" on pause- so i can write this...
Since I can remember- I have always been extraordinarily "curious" about human origins. History is my favorite "blackhole" subject - I easily get lost in learning about the history of literally ANYTHING and everything.
I have always questioned things like- how did we suddenly begin- not only just talking- but also understanding each other? Or- Why does it seem as though we all just suddenly knew how to mine and smelt ores and/or farming and animal husbandry... etc.
I've found that most of your videos(that i have seen so far) hit on alot of those same topics and questions and I am DELIGHTED to watch each and every video you've made- bc of that. Thank you for the hard work you put into your content! It is fantastic and quite quickly becoming a personal favorite for me! 😊❤ Thanks!
Thank you and I hope you enjoy more of them.
Fantastically erudite analysis. Love it. Been kinda subconsciously waiting for decades for something like this. Should be taught in elementary school!
Thank you for kind words
This is amazing material Jon! Keep em coming!
Cheers Derek! I hope the move is going well.
Has anybody tried linking these myths to great catastrophes we know happened?
About 75,000 years ago there was a super volcanic eruption on Toba, Indonesia which caused a climate catastrophe across the world, leading to a genetic 'bottleneck' in human evolution. (It's possible only 2,000 to 20,000 breeding pairs of humans survived.)
About 39,000 years ago here was a super eruption at Campi Flegrei, near Naples Italy, which may have lead to the decline of the Neanderthals. (It was near the center of their range.)
The Great Glaciers melted about 12,000 years ago which caused flooding across the earth and sea levels to rise 100 meters (300 feet.) I've speculated that perhaps the Gilgamesh & Noah flood myths arose for that era. (One investigator speculated that the Garden of Eden was on the valley floor of what is now the Persian Gulf. The valley floor was flooded by the melting of the great glaciers. Today, the Persian Gulf is about 125 feet deep.)
South East Asia & Polynesia have typhons & super typhons as well as earthquakes & volcanoes which may have triggered the flood & fire myths. Volcanos & earthquakes trigger tsunamis which could surely convince an ancient person that some god or goddess of the sea or earth was angry with humanity!
Some we can, the Australian myths, which I have a video about, allows us to link a few stories to major geological events in the vicinity of the stories origin.
I have, wrote and compiled a book about it. What is really strange is that very few know and rarely divulge as it is taboo. Follow my Avatar to About then Sites and email, if your in the continental USA I'll send you a copy. I never did get into each of the Ages as there is scant evidence to separate stories and place them with an Age. The most conspicuous is the 12.9ka space debris bombardment of The Younger Dryas Impacts Theory (See list of papers at The Cosmic Tusk and Martin Sweetman even reads through them all.) and there was the ~2300BC Event that some associate with Burckle Crater and tsunami deluge (See Dr. Dallas Abbott and The Comet Research Group) then there is the Bronze Age Collapse maybe from Thera. The Old World and America both say we are in the Fourth Age or Suns and depending where the zero is placed it is hard to count definitively, but it sounds like we have been devastated three times that we recall and when we get hit again it will be the end of the fourth... Personally, I try to not go beyond the formation of the Carolina Bays and Nebraska Rainwater Basins (See Antonio Zamora, there is one video about a bottle neck & Michael Davias's LIDAR images at Cintos Research) because of the above collation problem and the immense research involved (See Randall Carlson for beyond 13ka). This paradigm shift diffidently has push-back related to religion unlike the demise of the dinosaurs, it is as if there is a genetic memory of the trauma to which people go into denial and complete incredulousness. There are a number of cave art which, to me, clearly show the causation with dates well with the Ice Age which line up with the work of Dr. Bill Napier on the progenitor arrival in the inner solar system. It is also completely plausible that the Earth shaking events trigger volcanic activity and contributing to the atmospheric loading that blotted out the sky giving to mythology E.g., Amaterasu going into hiding. Seems everyone believes that solar worship is about daily and seasonal phenomena when it is really about lots of death and long term darkness. The Mesoamericans say this explicitly. When seen in the correct perspective it is amazing how the puzzle pieces fit together after being dumped on the floor ~13ka like real science should work instead of forcing them together, conservative reputations, and politics.
You enunciated this much better than your prior videos, I understood every word
I tried a little harder and tweaked the audio too... thank you for the feedback it is appreciated.
Absolutely amazing! Top quality work! Hard to believe this is a one man show. I get the feeling this video was made faster than I will take to study it. Now I will use the chapters and review it more carefully.
Thank you so much for watching it! Twice :)
@@Crecganford I guess I will watch it for weeks, cross checking information and assimilating. This is such an important work, I would like to translate it to Portuguese, my main language. Would you like that?
Fascinating video John. You covered a huge amount here
Thanks for watching Tom, your thoughts are always appreciated.
For the record: love your work. Thanks and good on ya
Your analysis perplexes me on a particular flood myth: that of the Anishnaabe/Ojibwe
It has an Earth Diver motif (muskrat) but their general human origin comes from trees (birch, I believe). What perplexes me is that, even though they're north-central North American in local their tribal origin story begins up off the northeast coast of the continent - somewhere around Nova Scotia.
Not an expert on the subject by a long shot but it doesn't quite seem to fit the modeling you propose. I could be wrong, lacking info, or just mistaken... but I'm curious on your thoughts.
Good question. I didn’t know about the Birch tree tie in. That is the canoe tree of the First Nations, I believe.😊
I’m Tlingit from Southeast AK, in short, our history Náasshkée Yéil and seemingly his family were here before the flood, he or she was able to heed the flood but his uncle wanted it to happen. Came across someone like him and was likewise here before the flood. After Náasshakée Yéil fixed the world more or less. Making rain washing out the poison that was all over the world. So much more but I rarely see or hear anyone talk about my peoples creations history. So similar to some from other parts of the world. Almost like people traversing between here and there got caught in the flood and survived afterwards becoming who we are now? Gunalchéesh - thank you for the video
Congratulations! The quality of your work is rapidly improving, to where you are becoming a top contender among creators of mythology related content on RUclips.
Thank you, the last few weeks have made me take extra effort in to presenting topics and I hope that shows.
Best calming voice
Love your work, it's a real glimpse into the "Human search for meaning" that I think we might have always had, I remember being captivated by Epic of Gilgamesh in high school!
Thank you for watching it, and your kind words.
That was absolutely electrifying stuff. Thank you so much for this and your other videos!
And thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment. It is appreciated.
Interesting! I always pictured the origin of the flood myth in the Bible and Gilgamesh as being a reference to when the sea broke through the Bosporus, flooding all settlements along the (then) Black Sea coast, given the proximity to the Ararat and the Middle East. This event could by people then surely only be explained by divine interference.
Maybe it is far older than that then.
That was my original thought many years ago too, and then I thought it might be to do with the creation of the Persian Gulf, but it seems it is far older than that. Thanks for watching.
Man congrats on hitting 50k subs! Seems like 6 months ago it was 2000 of us lol. Amazing growth.
Thank you, and yes the last few weeks has seen a large growth spurt, I’m a little baffled that year old content suddenly gets 350k views! But I’m happy that more people are getting to hear are old stories and why they exist.
More please. Do you do mythical places like Hy-brazil, star sign origins and why we celebrate certain things on certain days?
Honestly after this i just want to hear everything from the bible with comments anout each texts, symbols, metaphores, myths and meaning. Great
I have a video about Genesis which does discuss some of these further, it is fascinating where the stories actually come from.
A wonderful presentation. I think many of the Flood Myths had their origins in terrible natural disasters, like large floods, hurricanes/typhoons and megatsunamis. After many years went by the story of these disasters changed through the lens of the religious beliefs or mythology of the peoples. It could be there is a long ancestral memory of the inflooding of what is now the Black Sea, which could have diffused over millennia to different areas and changed as time went by and different peoples were exposed to it.
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment. It is appreciated.
The story of Noah's Ark in Genesis is a retelling of The Epic of Gilgemesh.
Which is a retelling of a retelling, of a retelling of an older myth.
@@Crecganford Very true. The source could be the Black Sea pouring over the Bosporus and into the area of a low-lying brackish lake according to Dr. Robert Ballard.
Atrahasis
You came from the underworld, a cave deep in a mountain, You came out of the cave just after the Flood, When the Water Breaks, the mother knows, New Life is on it's way.
The Creation & Flood story is retold every time a baby is born.
This is seen in the movement of the stars, 9 months moves the Sun 90 degrees, adding 7 hours realigns the Stars, 3 years and 24 hours, takes the Sun to its 4 aspects, the sun at dawn, the sun at noon, the sun at dusk, and the sun at midnight, the movement of Venus reveals the most, Venus and the Seven is unique, the Pole spin of the Sun and the retrograde days of Venus, are the same as the embryonic stage of the baby, which is 40-43 days, 40 days before birth, is when the head start turning down just before belly of the mother drops, the baby getting ready for birth.,
I guest its like that old saying "As Above, So Below"
It was a Serpent that causes this flood too. LOL carried there by Manu(Man-New), god of the sea and the trouser trout. LOL
The Zodiac is the Goddess, and Orion is her Man, what he holds above his head, came from below his belt, that little bloody red spot, called his Sword. Now drips into the throat (Taurus), fashioned by the Hands of Gemini, being born in the Mountain of Ophiuchus, shaped like a Cave Door, 9 months later, born to the Virgin Virgo, the Belly Button.
When the Horizon swallows Taurus, in late November, the hand of Gemini works its magic, now the Sun/Son is entering the cave door of Ophiuchus, the Orion Seed.
This explains why it is all over the world and the different variations over the time mixed with natural events and different names to stars/constellations/landmarks/etc.
This also explains the continuity. Mothers told this to daughters as an explanation of birth or as instructions when is the best time? In religious aspect birth is important and mothers health its crucial so the important story would have lived for ages.
"Myths and rite referring to the mythological age, when the great mythological event took place that brought both death and reproduction into play and fixed the destiny of life-in-time through a chain reaction of significantly interlocked transformations, belong rather to the world of the planter than to the shamanistically dominated hunting sphere. Wherever such myth are found in a hunting society, acculturation from horticulture or agricultural center can be supposed."
[The Masks of God: Primitive Mythology, Joseph Campbell, 1991, Part 4: "..."]
The flood myth is one of the widespread universal myths known on all inhabited continents from Africa to South America.
In the Finnish myth tradition, Väinämöinen is carving a boat on a mountain and accidentally hits his own knee with an ax and as a result the knee starts bleeding and the bleeding doesn't stop until the wound is sealed with a spell (the flood in this myth is that the knee bleeds, causing that the blood fall to the ground and color the heather and the moss).
This form has been considered a surviving remnant of an even older myth and the origin of all flood myths and stories is actually this older myth where a primordial giant or monster is killed so that the world can be created from its blood. In later stories, the theme of killing has been left out and blood has become water. And is at least suggested that behind all the flood myths and stories, there is no real event or flood that could have inspired the narrative that, for example, Plato presented in his dialogues as the origin of these universal myths and stories.
However, this theory is highly dependent on the Mesoamerican and Australian myth tradition and whether the forms of flood myths and stories they preserve are of independent or common origin.
So the Finnish myth goes like this: the wise sage Väinämöinen is carving a boat on the mountain when his grip loosens and the ax hits his knee. The knee starts to bleed and the bleeding doesn't stop even though Väinämöinen does everything he can. Then a raven or an eagle arrives and tells that Väinämöinen needs a spell and this can be found in the possession of the most powerful Sami shaman who live in Tuonela. Väinämöinen travels to the realm of the dead, the afterlife, and manages to find the necessary words to cast that spell and he sealed his wound.
@@danielmalinen6337 Well, it took another person doing the spell; part of it was knowing the origin of iron. Blood-stopping words was the thing Väinämöinen lacked at the time. The healer lacked the origin of iron. Both improved on their knowledge here. Then Väinämöinen goes back to his boat-building, only he lacks 3 words to finish it. So-- he tries to find the words in Tuonela but the dead don't know either. He barely manages to get away by turning into a snake -- and figures never do that again, what with the beer being so bad, it is not for the living. Next up is the giant Antero Vipunen who does know but it takes some doing before getting the words AND for the giant to let him get out of his belly.
BTW, In Finnic mythology, Väinämöinen carves a boat on top of a mountain and hits the wound in his knee with an ax. Blood flows from the wound, which stains the mountain slopes and heather fields with blood until Väinämöinen heals his wound with magic words and the bleeding stops. Researchers say that this is a Finnish flood myth because 1) Väinämöinen is carving a boat on top of a mountain and 2) there is bleeding blood, which is the most common cause of a flood in flood myths. But, possibly because I'm not a researcher or scholar, I haven't found many flood myths where the cause of the flood is blood bleeding.
Every time you hit the bulls..eye. Thank you Jon. I feel more mindscape; in the cerbral. We are all but part of a Song Line. Peace and 'expanding knowledge' to you; sir.
Thank you for your kind words.
I would love to hear more about that creation myth. I've never heard anything like it! A creation with no creator? I need to know everything about it.
I will talk about this more soon, so feel free to come back and watch that too!
My cup of tea always has whiskey in it, and as a side note.... I love that you always have the Venus of Willendorf on your shelf behind you in every video ;)
I am partial to the odd glass of whiskey, although not whilst working. And I added to the collection recently, and I am awaiting someone to note it in my next video.
This is an odd episode, as it didn't tell me anything I didn't suspect, but still found it very interesting to follow the analysis and discussion.
Like Flood myths; I would expect the inpact of floodings to be so strong that and the event so common that, to paraphrase a much wiser man: "it would be weird if it didn't crop up all the time" (Stephen Fry when talking about unlikely events). I would be more interested in the myths of a culture that didn't have one!
Or how myths spread and change with basically the same model as biological evolution (no wonder they use the same terminology): I always assumed they did, ever since I first read Dawkins' defenition of a meme. But there's only one feeling that matches the surprised satisfaction of having assumptions being proven wrong in your field of academic expertise: having your instincts proven valid when making an assumption in a field where you have absolutely NO true expertise, except beyond brushing up against it in a hobbyist pursuit.
Thank you for watching, and indeed, everything is common sense once you understand how it works.
What kinds of conclustion would it be possible to get if all that remained of humanity's stories was TV Tropes?
My parents actually told me that the existance of flood myths around the world proves that Noah's flood actually happened.
Despite the fact that the different myth vary wildly.
The existence of flood myths around the world proves that floods happened around the world, and I would imagine all of the myths didn't actually happen as described.
It did happen. As a scientific fact, remembered by humanity world wide, as the ending of one and the beginning of a new world. There's a lot of our history we are not privy to. Much we never could be, times makes fools of us all
Happy dance. It's hot outside so I'm curled up with a cold beverage, ac turned way down and listening to perfection 🥰
I'll let you off for not having a tea... and thank you so much for watching and taking the time to comment. It is always appreciated.
@@Crecganford it was sweet iced tea does that count?
So engaging and interesting and informative
Thank you so much for watching, and taking the time to comment. It is appreciated.
Fascinating. And excellently done as usual. Lots of twists and turns!
In the Old Testament the Noah story is told twice. In one version a dove is released to look for dry land (it's done a number of days in a row). In the second telling of the tale, the bird released was a raven (or maybe a crow; my recall isn't perfect). Sermons don't generally point out this deviation.
Ok, that's interesting, thanks for watching and taking the time to comment, it is appreciated.
Raven/Crow is a English Transcription/Translation Distinction... Some translators prefer Raven(s) - others Crow(s) - depending on which they believe is more common in Palestine/Levant. The main difference which may be more important is whether the Raven(s)/Crow(s) returned failing to find land; or found land and nested refusing to return to the Ark. Meanwhile the Dove(s) brought back twigs from an olive tree to make a nest in the Ark. Both stories use both stories if I remember correctly use Dove and Raven/Crow; just difference of how they act as an Analogy of Human behavior towards God like Jesus' Sheep versus Goats Sermon.
@@KebaRPG Or so we are told.
Thank you very much for your response!
@@Crecganford You are welcome! It's little things like this that keep alive the myth that an education is actually good for something. (I greatly enjoyed your video! Well done indeed!)
@@Crecganford The length of the Deluge is also given twice. The two versions do not agree.
I think our bible tale is merely a reworded version of the deluge..By Plato Written 360 B.C.E
To this city came Solon, and was received there with great honour; he asked the priests who were most skilful in such matters, about antiquity, and made the discovery that neither he nor any other Hellene knew anything worth mentioning about the times of old. On one occasion, wishing to draw them on to speak of antiquity, he began to tell about the most ancient things in our part of the world-about Phoroneus, who is called "the first man," and about Niobe; and after the Deluge, of the survival of Deucalion and Pyrrha upon the Ark; and he traced the genealogy of their descendants, and reckoning up the dates, tried to compute how many years ago the events of which he was speaking happened.
Thereupon one of the priests, who was of a very great age, said: O Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are never anything but children, and there is not an old man among you. Solon in return asked him what he meant. I mean to say, he replied, that in mind you are all young; there is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition, nor any science which is hoary with age. And I will tell you why.
There have been, and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes; the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable other causes.
When the gods purge the earth with a deluge of water, the survivors in your country are herdsmen and shepherds who dwell on the mountains, but those who, like you, live in cities are carried by the rivers into the sea.
Whereas just when you and other nations are beginning to be provided with letters and the other requisites of civilised life, after the usual interval, the stream from heaven, like a pestilence, comes pouring down, and leaves only those of you who are destitute of letters and education; and so you have to begin all over again like children, and know nothing of what happened in ancient times, either among us or among yourselves.
As for those genealogies of yours which you just now recounted to us, Solon, they are no better than the tales of children. In the first place you remember a single deluge only, but there were many previous ones; and this was unknown to you, because, for many generations, the survivors of that destruction died, leaving no written word.
Very interesting to see the movement from Polynesia/Southeast Asia to South America with some of these myths. Is this timed in such a way that it corresponds to the potential contact times some evidence suggests Polynesia's may have had with South America (roughly 800 years ago)? Or is this suggesting something much older? That seems kind of late for this context, but I can understand if the spread was very slow.
If there was no contact between the two how did Polynesia and Southeast Asia get the sweet potato with DNA that originates from South America
You forgot to include the flood myths of the Aztecs that involve Quetzalcoatl
I find this topic and your channel very interesting! I do wish I could be more convinced, though. Can't floods happen practically anywhere? And given the tendency of early humans to settle near water (e.g. around rivers as in the case of the Tigris, Nile, Indus, and Yellow River, along coasts as with Caral-Supe), I would be surprised if each of these locations did not experience their own catastrophic flooding events and evolve flood myths independently. A comparable phenomenon is present in biological evolution, whereby seemingly similar/identical structures are formed through unrelated evolutionary pathways (i.e. convergent evolution). I think the eye is probably the most famous example.
Also, some of these flood myths have tantalizing archaeological evidence. In China, where the flood is the single most important myth of that culture and serves as an origin story for political organization, geological data suggests a massive outburst flood along the Yellow River dating to 1900 BC (Wu et al, Science, 2016). This would coincide rather nicely with the establishment of the quasi-mythological Xia dynasty, which is traditionally said to have been founded by an engineer/project manager-type guy named Yu who mopped up the flood (!).
In any case, I've learned a lot from this channel and am fascinated by work of comparing and synthesizing myths, but I do feel it'd be fair to point out the open-endedness of these questions.
Thank you for watching, and for taking the time to comment. Your questions are very valid, which is why I talk about motifs and the "individualization" of flood myths to try and remove the thought that they are the same or are all different. This helps us build up confidence in the results of the study. I have linked to the papers in the description if you wish to dive deeper into the science. Thanks again.
From what I’ve seen, a lot of these flood myths come from island nations or areas next to large bodies of water or areas that had large bodies of water in the past.
Areas that would naturally be prone to flooding.
This kind of idea was something I have been thinking about for a long time, reflecting on the flood myths: water is everywhere, Floods are common.
Also, I would suggest, the human habit of embellishing and enflating stories. Imagine being the oldest of the tribe, sitting around the fire, and telling the legend you heard from your grandfather. Whatever you heard 40 - 50 years ago, you double it. It makes for better drama and we tell stories not just to the listeners, but to ourselves too. And an old story, told many times, gets boring, firs of all, for the narrator. So that time when a cat scratched our grandpa, becomes the time when he fought a tiger.
But the informations from the channel are giving me a deeper appreciation of the complexity of the subject
Crecganford: I spent hours watching & responding to this video. Thank you for the entertainment!
Thank you, your support is appreciated.
How about The Watchers? Nefilim? I’d love to hear the Abraham story superimposed on whatever myth it was stuck onto. Thank you for your strong work!
Thanks so much. Very interesting 🤔.
And thank you for watching.
I would be interested to hear about the expansion from the PIE homeland and your thoughts on various versions of the Black Sea deluge hypotheses. Do you think the IE myth repackaged an older myth with a real life event?
I think it was influenced and evolved/repackaged due to it.
@@Crecganford Thanks!
It's possible that in the 2nd millenium BC, the Minoans/Phoenicians sailed the planet, and spread the Mesopotamian myths around. The arc flood myth for example. Would turn many of these theories on their heads.
There is no archaeological evidence or DNA evidence to support this hypothesis.
@@Crecganford I'd disagree. Look up "the Antikythera mechanism" found in a 2k yo Greek shipwreck, which after over a century of study turns out to be a geared analog astronomical computer. Earth-centered, it could _very_ accurately predict locations of the stars, planets and _EVEN_ lunar and solar eclipses. Such a device could've _easily_ been used for celestial navigation around the globe and this was in a device dated to 100 B.C.E. give or take 30 years. It's no stretch that the Minoans and Phoenicians could find their way around a giant ball back home with the undoubtable 1st edition paper version of the Greek Antikythera mechanism.
Also just because there's no DNA evidence only provides evidence the Minoans and Phoenicians kept their snakes in a cage...
Ever since the demise of the great library of Alexandria and its vast wealth of ancient knowledge lost to time, modern academia seems to have been bred without manners to respect our elders, our ancestors. Imagining them as barely more than 'cavemen' without GPS or even a map and compass, instead of as capable problem solving minds. The Romans routinely did _successful_ cataract and even brain surgeries, give the old generations some credit.
Your work is truly inspiring me to write my novels at this time in my life. Thank you so much
I appreciate your kind words, and the fact you find what I teach inspiring. Thank you.
It is interesting to me that there are people out there talking about whether the world was ever flooded or not. In case anyone out there is oblivious to the obvious, it is still flooded. One big ocean wrapping around all of the land masses. The current narrative shows us videos of structures under the oceans of the world and they are located under the oceans because... wait for it... it was, and still is flooded. How it got flooded may be up for debate; but whether it was flooded should be obvious.
I may have missed it, but I'm curious if there's any connection between the timing of the propagation of the myth and the changes that occurred to the myth that made it so varied. It seems as though you might be able to connect major flooding events with a spike in the variety of flood myths being told in a relatively short timespan, or even vice versa - I feel like the Younger Dryas climate change era should have been accompanied by a massive increase in the popularity and diversity of flood myths.
I have tried to mention when motifs split and grew, some happened post African dispersal, some in Asia and Northern Eurasia. I have referenced to the original papers in the description if you want a deeper dive.
It makes sense that a flood myth would not involve Africa, being nearly a giant plateau it would be much less affected by rising water levels. It's also obvious that the flood myth would originate with seafaring people, since it attaches great importance to seafaring people, even setting aside the myth's ability to disseminate across seas.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment, and for watching. It is appreciated.
This is my 5th time viewing this dude. Rock on with these musically voiced narrations!
Thank you
I love your work, and I'm really invested in it, but I have to ask how close to the mainstream of your field do you stick to? I don't mean that to be insulting ❤
Very close
A good question if you're unaware of the field. The papers I reference are from a researcher and project that is currently active, and who personally updates me. So I would say I am on top of it. But it doesn't mean there aren't alternative thoughts, but just none that convince me yet.
A cup of tea and a Joint and bit of mythology....
Floods are possible in every part of the Earth
So it can be possible that there would have been Flood due to Heavy Rain (Like 500 year Rain), Tsunami, or even due to Sea level rise due to Burst of Glacial Lakes which had formed in North America and Siberia
And these were created independently
My arguments would be around motif dispersal, from up to ten motif types, would evidence against this, and that is without looking at any geological arguments. And so my thoughts are for now, not supportive of a world wide flood.
@@Crecganford Logically speaking, a worldwide flood is practically impossible
But, since world was a small place form the point of view of our ancestors, so a really big flood or some other event similar to that might had been world wide for them
That's my hypothesis
@@basantprasadsgarden8365 If an asteroid hit the worlds ocean 🌊🌊🌊 It could be flooded everywhere. Even a massive underwater earthquake can have near global effects.
Take into account another factor. That is oral tradition. If enough people experienced it they would tell their children and their children. Obviously not all people had ancestors that lived through said event. But they would share in the experience of the story. And it would be a powerful unifying tool. That's why these stories survived. Because it is a sense of victory and destiny over calamity.
Who wouldn't want to hear that the gods/god chose your ancestors to live on and repopulate the earth?
@@dgray3771 yes, sounds very rational
Thought experiment: if the cultures that have the motifs of deity or celestial being dying, falling to the earth, then flood all are radial similar distances to the proposed Younger Dryas impact site that can be a connecting thread. Following the causality of the impact into the N.A. ice sheet covers a lot of motifs for the more removed cultures (deluge, then flooding).
The Black Sea was 400 m lower than now, 9 000 years ago.
Indeed, most pre civilization cultures lived along way from what would be considered our current shorelines, 400 metres lower and possibly kilometers out, any fast rising sea levels could have been perceived as a deluge, in fact the next phase of Archeological study is going to be using scuba gear, Bulgarians have already found stone henges at the bottom of the black sea, and of course back then it was a fresh water lake before the ice walls to the north collapsed, maybe the So called Atlantis is sitting on what was an island at the bottom?
There is a serious flaw in the diffusion theory of the flood myth in the fact that the Australian flood myths are very specific to particular areas of land that were actually flooded, including the land bridge between the mainland and Tasmania, the Port Philip Bay at Melbourne and of course the Great Barrier Reef. Aboriginal people maintained oral histories of when those places were sold land, and of the time of their flooding. So this is not a story that spread from somewhere else but actual history recorded in mythologised form in this country.
Thank you for your thoughts. I do have a specific video about the Australian flood myth. This video is about the flood myth we see happen after creation in mythologies which is a very different context for the flood.
@@Crecganford I will have to check out your Australian flood myth video. I am not sure which particular sources you are relying on for this one but one really can’t speak of “an Australian flood myth”. Mythology here is always localised ie specific to local places and conditions.
I am actually about to start some comparative research between Australia and Central Europe and would love the chance to chat with you if you are open to that.
Any idea of a tie in between creation myths and child birth? Seems like some of these motifs could have a fit with it.
Sounds like you are getting into the realm of psychology. Carl Jung may be your guy.
@@liquidconstellations it would probably be impossible to remove human psychology from any study involving mythology.
These myths generally always are multifaceted. That is to say there are always multiple layers of interpretations due to how well fashioned the stories are
I'm not seeing any motifs that really call that out, unless there is an analogy is around the "hole". But that is a challenge to prove. Thanks for watching, and a great question.
The Australian indigenous also have story's if the last volcanic eruption in South Australia at Mount Gambler which now the blue lake.
Very interesting. I think you are right. Thank you.
Algorithms working for you now. How about a playlist of vids where you simple tell the tales without commentary?
I have been thinking about that... maybe on a new and separate channel though, so as not to upset the algorithm gods that have so kindly accepted my sacrifice of a couple of cups of tea.