I would love your take on the evidence for human sacrifice in Ireland, Wales, Man, and Cornwall. Is it dubious? Is it real? Under what context might it have been used?
Cleansing rituals Regeneration rituals. My interest is cleaning of soul, more associated with regeneration, not exorcism. And regeneration associated with restoring stability in environment. Crecganford my apologies to you if these topics are well covered in history of your posts. I'm new here.
In Poland we have a legend about the dragon living in a cave under the royal castle in Kraków, former Polish capital. The oldest written version is from the 12th century and tells about a dragon terrorizing the population of Kraków, forcing them to sacrifice cattle to him. The king's sons were unable to defeat the dragon in battle, so they fed him a cattle skin stuffed with smoldering sulfur, causing his fiery death. After that younger son killed his brother in order to be able to inherit the throne and told his father that he had died fighting the dragon. The dragon cave under the castle can be visited to this day by tourists and in front of it there is a fire-breathing statue of a dragon.
@@Crecganford greetings, the headless bear could mean that the starsighn bear was with its head below the horizont, indicater of an earthcrust displacement, anothe sky?????
The myth of St. George slaying the Dragon is at least as old as from the 11th century AD in Cappadocia, but even in Pre-Christian times the myth existed: Perseus and Andromeda f.ex… Even my hometown, Holstebro, Jutland, Denmark, ended up with this motif in the City Coat of Arms, apparently through a fusion of a coat of arms depicting how the city bridge was defended - a crowned knight on horseback with his lance levelled for combat and the myth of St. George with its root in Christianity and Humane Care… Safe passage over the river, Storåen, was valuable for the cattle trade, which was a major part of Jutland's export and the crowned knight may have signified that the King supported the armed defence of the trade route.
My favourite "dragon ritual" is stepping into my local pub, 'The George and Dragon', walking up to the humourless, sourfaced lady behind the bar, and asking "is George in?".
I can imagine people in the tribe being told this stories deep in the cave by an elder, lighted by torches, with the sound of running water around. It would have felt overwhelming and otherworldly. This series about dragons keeps getting better and better. thank you so much
I only have one more dragon story right now and I may save that. But will be doing a couple of shows on other RUclips channels talking about dragons soon.
Oh I love that imagery, and also the cave paintings flickering in the torch light and the sound of the elder's voice enhanced by the cave. No wonder these people believed in such awesome tales.
@@Crecganford Hello Jon , I was listening and enjoying this recent video when it reminded me of Rattlesnakes in the south west of the US. I was working on cattle ranches in the south west states in the 1980's. Did you know that when you severe the head of the rattlesnake the body keeps moving, the rattle keeps rattling and the head keeps snapping. The indigenous people of the area all stated to me that the body and head of the snake had to be buried separately or the snake could come back to life. I thought it kinda flows with this video and I wanted to share this with you. Keep up the great work, and a great weekend.
In romanian folklore there are many stories about this young and handsome man (Făt-Frumos) who fights a dragon-like creature ('zmeu' or 'balaur') because he kidnapped one or three princesses and made them his wifes. With the great help of his wise and magic horse and sometimes of other animals or mythological beings, the hero reaches the Other Realm (Tărămul Celălalt), chops the dragon's head or heads, marry the girls and they live happily ever after. 'Zmeu' is a scale-covered humanoid with one or three heads or even nine in some stories, and has a snake tale, legs, arms, the ability to create and use artifacts such as weapons, and to ride a horse, and has the desire to marry young girls. Sometimes he appears in the sky altough he has no wings, and spits fire, or has the ability to change form. 'Balaur' is a more serpent-shaped creature, with three, seven or nine heads. In some stories it has wings. It kidnapps young princesses, and sometimes lives in a well or a lake. It can be summoned by a wizard (Solomonar), who then rides and use the Balaur to controll the weather. Also when two Balauri meet and fight in the air, there ensues various meteorological damages. Both Zmeu and Balaur die only by getting all their heads chopped off.p I can now link that stories to your neolithic dragon mith as there are many similarilies.
I believe this is far pre-Indo-European. Paleolithic peoples of 17,000 BC would be even before the Anatolian neolithic farmers spread west into European heartland in 7,000 BC thereabouts who were in turn supplanted by conquest and migration by the Indo-European Danubic culture only by around post-6,000 BC at the earliest in this region, probably post-4,500. I'm no authority on the subject but that's my two-cents. It's interesting though to see this parallel evolution of beliefs and, who knows, maybe dragons of the European tradition come from this separate much earlier arriving autochthonous people! I can't recall any dragons in our understanding of Indo-European myth off-hand, with the sky father and the twin horse princes and all that, but my knowledge of that stuff just isn't there yet so idrk
Fascinating work as always. I always go back to Persian mythology and find interesting similarities between what you say and what has been recorded in Shahname. Besides the story of Zahhak/Azhidahak which is clearly a dragon figure usurping the throne, I remembered a curious case of Rostam and his superhero horse Rakhsh (meaning light) fighting and slaying a dragon on his seven-phase epic journey to set the captured shah free and it is Rakhsh who kills the dragon 🐉
It reminds me a lot of the philosophy behind the reconstruction of the proto-indoeuropean language. Very interesting, even if we'll never truly know the exact details or how correct we are.
@@kylewilliams8114 What we do know, and know very well, we can't walk into other peoples' caves and interpret their symbols for them. Even the caves of people who are alive today. That's how we know "this method" doesn't work.
The appearance of similar motifs in South American and Australian Aboriginal cultures suggests that some of our mythologies are a great deal older than is generally suspected, perhaps even originating in Africa more than a hundred thousand years ago. I'm particularly interested in any insight you may have regarding fire rituals and parables, such as those we find in the stories of Prometheus & Pandora and in some Siberian and Native American raven legends. Just about every culture has/had some kind of fire god, usually associated with cautionary tales about the reckless pursuit of power ("a dangerous servant and frightful master"), and the common threads running through them seem to indicate that we've been sharing these fables for as long as we've been human enough to gather around a hearth.
I haven't discussed fire motifs yet, but I have discussed about the origins of the dragon myth which touches on Australia and South Africa, it is the video I recommend at the end of this video and is really worth a watch if you haven't seen it yet.
Interesting. The mention of 'The Tain' pronounced "Toyne" is steeped in ancient Celtic mythology and is translated to 'The Cattle Raid of Cooley' from a time when wealth was measured in herds. If my memory is correct all the hero's battles take place at fords or river crossings. It is part of the Annals of Ulster and only survives today thanks to the early literate Christian monks who wrote them down. Their origins are unknown but considered to be ancient folklore by the time the Celts arrived in Ireland.
I hope all the research you are doing for this series is something you will be collating into a popular book on history and dispersal of dragon mythology.
A quick thought, the serpent has connections with the constellation Hyades. Often with the dragons head, Hyades, being wounded while attacking the foot or heel of a the hero, the constellation Orion. The constellation Eridanus (Jordan) the celestial river is located below and between Orion and The Hyades (and wider Taurus). This has relationships to the story of Adam, Moses and the Serpent staff as well as inability to cross the Jordan, Ra and the Serpent shaped as a dart, Thor and Hrungnir on the boat, among others. The Hyades are the “rainy” or watery constellation.
I love this channel. So we’ll researched and we can learn so much from our ancient ancestors. They were Homo sapiens - just as curious and creative and intelligent as we are - you can see that in these myths. And the routes to various permutations of myths including dragons, storm gods, snakes, floods seem so clear now. Fascinating. Thank you.
Thank you for promoting and discussing the beliefs of our ancestors and bringing them to life for our folk in these modern times. It is important to discuss the ways of our European forebears. Thank you again.
I’m sorry, but from a molehill of fact a mountain of surmise is developed. There is a massive jump from a small snake to a gigantic multi/headed monster.
@@robertmiller5258 Entertain this, this ritual and the myth of the Greek Hydra didn’t happen overnight. You’re forgetting the gigantic span of time and development this motif went through to arrive at where it is today in its various forms around the world. Simply saying that it looks like too big of a jump from this to that isn’t taking all the evidence into consideration. Also we don’t know what other contexts of this ritual have disappeared through time and erosion. The fact that two instances in two different places this was found says a lot about the possibility of this sort of ritual being done in this time period.
Perfect timing, I just got back from a fair about Eastern cultures and bought an Italian pizza. I thought "this would be the perfect moment to watch a Crecganford video" and you released a new one today. Thanks
@@Crecganford Your videos have been fuelling an interest in Indo European culture I've had for more than a decade, shedding light to many things I wanted to know about. Thank you very much
While you were explaining, i remembered another such myth from the puranas/upanishads(which comes after vedas)... This isnt about Indra killing Vrtra, but its about Krishna(Vishnu) harming Kalinga. This myth is waaay younger and newer compared to the Vrtra slaying myth. I think the people adopted this myth when gods like shiva, vishnu and brahma were taking over the main head pantheon which consisted of indra before.. (Although Indra, Agni, Varuna and other gods are still there, they are only prayed during religious ceremonies... A local man(nowadays) does not pray to these gods, they mainly pray to the Trinity{shiva, vishnu, and sometimes brahma}), but we do know that long time ago, atleast according to the rig vedas, the ancient gods like Indra, Agni, etc were prayed to more In this myth we see that a snake has taken control over this huge river, and anyone who drank from it died due to the snake's poison. The snake is depicted as having many heads. Krishna had enough of this snake, and went to slay it... He dove into the waters and came up to the surface while dancing on the many heads of the snake. The snake begged for krishna to stop dancing, and thats when krishna struck a deal with the snake to never enter the waters again, and therefore freeing the river!
Very similar to the Greek myth of the Gorgon, of course. I'm a Gael (Scots Irish) and we have a blue one eyed hag goddess with a protruding tongue who is triple in aspect and is the goddess of death. She's called Cailleach in Scotland and Morrigan in Ireland. Just thought that may be of any interest to any Hindus that may be reading this ;)
This is amazing! The presents of the horses is extraordinary. This is long, long before the domestication of the horse. Now horses don't like poisonous snakes and will stomp them to death striking with there front feet. Here in America we have water snakes, cottonmouths and water moccasins. Both of these are deadly. It would be interesting to see if they could get any DNA off of the sacrificed snakes to see if they were indeed a poisonous species. But the horses are really important. About 6 months ago it came out that the current domesticated horses did not come from the horses that were first domesticated. These were the ancestors of the Przwalski Horse who moved to east and eventually let them run wild again. So they are beginning to try to figure out where the current horses came from. This bone may be an indication of it. Interestingly enough the spotted horses on the caves in Spain prove the existence of the Leopard gene that is present in several breeds currently. All of those breeds trace back to Spain. It is a recessive gene so it can hide for generations and crop up again if you are deliberately breeding for it. The snowy conditions would have favored that pattern for a camouflage. These horses are certain to be part of the answer to the puzzle. You should check out the people doing the work on the horse DNA. I think it may point them to places to search that will help them.
Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment, it is very interesting, especially the origins of the horse and how they were used by our ancestors. Thank you for sharing.
I agree! I would much rather face a poisonous snake with a horse than a dog. I’ve seen horses trample cottonmouths and rattlesnakes in seconds! Growing up in Oklahoma even if I wasn’t riding my aunt and uncle always had a horse with me when I was in the field to protect me from snakes.
@@reverie6034 : Yes, the mongoose may be effective at fighting snakes, but that is only from speed, being able to out-range them is far more reliable.
It would be interesting if humans and horses occasionally worked together to fight against snakes before domestication. Even today, some of the hunter-gatherer tribes of the african Great Rift Valley only seriously fear snakes, not any of the other dangers of the area. It may well be that this common tendency is part of why humans domesticated horses so early.
Thank you so much for this. Fascinating. During your talk I thought of related/ derivative stories such as Perseus-Pegasus-Medusa/snake, Eve/ wife-Serpent-knowledge, Dian Cécht (Irish healer god)-slays the triple snakes/Méche-scatters the remains in a river (Berba)... It makes me think of how important are the findings of such caves, with their wall art, carvings and bones to our modern interpretation of ancient culture and beliefs. I look forward to further findings that can allow specialists such as "Crecganford" to confirm, revise and elaborate further. Thanks again. I love your channel !
Thank you for watching, and for taking the time to comment. It is appreciated. And yes, once you start understanding some of the earliest motifs you start seeing them everywhere.
Love your channel, you really bring the past to life! I am always curious about what the day to day experience would have been like for our ancestors and how they would have viewed the world. Thanks for sharing this research!
I would love to know that too, and we can only guess. But I try and understand their beliefs and culture, to help us have some idea. Thank you for watching.
@Crecganford Having just finished watching all of your content over the last few weeks, it is nice to see someone dive so deep into mythology and its origins. As a christian (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints), I do not feel offended by your opinions on Christianity, but enjoy the opportunity to see how things are connected and how far back the origins of belief and myth can go. Thank you for your efforts and time in developing this content!
I have casually noticed a lot of "dragon guards a magical item usually involving knowledge" usually associated with some sort of knowledge tree. It's curious to see other dragon motifs.
Pretty sure ancient people had to deal with snakes while climbing trees to get the better fruit towards the top. I assure you most of these myths stem from completely mundane things
Awesome video, Jon. Thanks for doing all that hard work and research. This is fascinating. If you know of anymore Stone Age proto myths and rituals, I’d love to hear them.
As usual this was fascinating. I appreciate your amazing wealth of knowledge and the ease with which you explain myth and all its various connections. I'm curious about the relationship between the snake, water, moon, bull and labyrinths as symbols in myth. Would you consider that as a future topic? Thanks for contributing to my lifelong learning.
Thank you for watching, and some of these connections I will talk about in the future, certainly the snake and the moon will be in a video towards the end of October. I hope you come back to watch that.
Its my first time seeing a video by you and I'm loving your breakdowns step by step. This video made me subscribe. I really like history and mythology.
The “fish” talked about in the art areactually symbols representing signs. Like chevrons on a Sargent, or stars on an admiral, they convey the meaning of social placeholder. There are many reoccurring symbols in the caves that use symbols that translate a message into the current occupier of the cave since most were used as shelters in winter but were mostly empty when times were good. They could’ve even be a shopping list traveling merchants that spoke a different language but recognized the universal symbols. Yes, that means ancient man had a form of writing, and were in contact with other clans over vast distances.
Thank you for watching, and for your comment. But is that an opinion, or are you citing a peer-reviewed and credible academic source? In which case would you share that source as I am interested in all interpretations.
Interesting that one man, Melanthios, cut his hair to triumph, but another man, Samson, lost his strength when his hair was cut. I was always interested in the two dragons who fought in the Merlin tales. I assumed they were thought to cause earthquakes and toppled the castles built above. Of course I only read of this story as written by Mary Stewart. I understand that even today, some Asian countries still construct dragon holes in tall buildings so that the wind dragon will not topple them. Which I consider to be at least partly ritual behavior.
Really? This intrigues me... that retelling of an academic paper can describe my psychology, especially considering the eclectic nature of the papers I often retell.
What's incredibly interesting is in Welsh myth, the dragon is a representation if the people, who's home is located in the Eyri. The dragon essentially is a protector, and a being that holds all our strength. It's why the red dragon is on our flag, with the story coming from at least the middle ages.
This seems so strange because in my indoeuropean country we see snakes as sacred, associated with wisdom and the Earth goddess. Even some 100 years ago it was considered an evil act to kill a snake. They were even fed near house. I wonder how we ended up with this sacred snake if protoindoeuropeans hated snakes.
Well said Jon! My wife would approve of the decapitation of snakes. She can't even look at a picture of one! I mentioned before the serpent Bakunawa in Visayan mythology. The moon-eating serpent that lives in the ocean. That one was never killed, and at least until recently people used to call out "Iuli kanamo ang among buwan" ("Return our moon") whenever there was a lunar eclipse, so that Bakunawa would spit out the moon. There is also a lingering belief in the provinces here that when there is an earthquake, it is caused by a giant crocodile ("buaya") under the ground. So the people rush out of their houses and call out "Bua! Bua!". My wife Ling Ling heard people doing this as recently as late 2019. "The footsteps of the ancestors are still to be seen"!
Love the channel, amazing content. I would love to see you explore some of the myths and archeological sites you speak of physically. Is travelling around an option for you?
This video made me think of several things. The first thought I had was about how medieval dragons spit poison rather than breathe fire, as there are cases currently in study about spitting snakes whose biological mechanism is literally for attacking human/primates eyes with poison. Secondly, I immediately thought of St. George slaying the dragon as now being more connected to an older myth versus simply an analogy to a Roman Commander besieging a city. Thirdly, birds also got mentioned, so I started thinking about Native American Thunderbird striking down Uktena, as well as how St. Micheal being a human figure with bird-like wings striking down the Devil (extremely different stories, but they resemble bird-like entities striking down dragon-like entities). Fourthly, I think of potential subconscious replication of snake slaying myths in caves and/or near water in modern media, such as Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. Not to jump into a European biased perspective of a Beiring Strait theory, but these dragon slaying myths might be evidence for homo sapiens deriving from one place on our planet.
@@Crecganford I'm obviously not speaking for the original poster, but I would be thrilled if you highlighted patterns across time and space - more horses/lions/etc. or hands/hands missing digits, when and where. In this video, you helped me see a pattern I've never noticed before: where there was a river AND a cave during the era of art and/or ritual, and how that might change the purpose or meaning of the art. I will definitely be re-watching this one more than once.
I enjoyed this video a lot! As usual! General question, but do you have advice about gathering credible resources for making historian fiction set in prehistory?
Thank you. I admire people who do this as it isn't easy as our knowledge expands, and occasionally alters, with time. If it were me, although my head is academic as opposed to a story writer, I would say identify the important aspects of what you are writing about, and then look up the latest academic papers on such things. And try and make them fit together.
In Altay (Turkic) mythology there're plenty of dragons but there's a specific story of 2 dragons figthing each other for 9 years. Before the times of man there were dragons roaming the land. The most powerful among them was ''Sangal'' the evil one, it dominated all others and stole their ''Töz'' (somethimes it means the soul sometimes its just jewels in the story). Sangal lived in a cave, stashing all the töz he stole deep down, thinking ''Tengri'' (God) would not see him there. One day ''Büke'' (sometimes referred to as Bükrek) the youngest among them climbed up to a mountain and called for Tengri, when Tengri answered him he told him about Sangal. Tengri descended from the sky, and asked all the others if Büke was telling the truth. In fear of Sangal, they all kept their silence, then Tengri told Büke that he was jelous of Sangal as he was the youngest and Sangal was the eldest. Tengri told Büke that he should be ashamed he called his name and only told lies to his face. After Tengri ascended to sky, Sangal came out of his cave and jumped on Büke, starting a fight. Büke knew he did not have a töz, it was stolen by the Sangal, if he were to die it would be his end. So Büke kept fighting evasively. 2 dragons kept fighting each other for 9 years. One day Tengri would hear the voices of roaring dragons on the land, he would descend from the sky to see them fighting. The others would now tell Tengri all the truth. Tengri then gave Büke ''wings made out of heavenly clouds'' in the midddle of the fight. Büke overcame Sangal and pierced his chest with claws and teeth. All the blood and flesh bursted out of him spread all across the existence creating the life. Tengri said he would only give Büke his töz back, the stolen töz of the others were given to the life created by the blood and flesh of Sangal. This new life would be named Ebren (Evren in todays Turkic langs. and it means universe). Tengri ascended to skies taking Büke with him. And this is how the life is created. (according to this story) I also know the metaphoric meanings of this story but I better keep it short. Source: All the Turks living around Altay mountains today, it is still told by the elders to kids as a bedtime story.
It is also consistent with the snakes representing a destructive comet and/or meteors. See also the Lascaux shaft scene and Gobekli Tepe where it is clear snakes represent meteors. Comet impacts generate water - rain, floods, tsunamis etc.
I do believe this was a motif, but it was not a significant one that transferred itself to mythology, although the reason for this is as I mention in my previous video, on the origins of dragon myths. And that is that stories have different meaning to myths, and so aren't necessarily told in the same way.
Hi John, Your videos are amazing, they are informative and entertaining, I like to watch your videos. I have one complaint. The Hindi subtitles are a little confusing though, the grammar and sentences are not coherent sometimes. The spellings of words are good though. Please take cognisance of this 🙏 I have been watching your channel from the past 6 to 7 months now and I love your oldest myths video series, especially the origins of religion one. Thanks 🙏👍
Whilst I try my best to ensure subtitles are good, and certainly better than auto-generated ones, I just don't have the time and resources to check everything all the time. But I hope with time I will get better, and there are more and more tools out there that maybe able to help me improve the quality further.
Great video! While other people have added some more about the dragon mythology, I'd like to point out we are talking about the Pyrenees here. Not so far from Carcassonne, Rennes Le Chateau, Cathar & troubadour country, and on the other side, the West side of the Pyrenees, is Basque country, another enigma of history, with its language we still can't categorize properly, and apparently lots of Dolmens and Cromlechs in Basque country as well! I always find the Pyrenees really exude mystery to anyone who visits them!
When I was younger I had a dream that I was in a sort of colosseum or arena seemed like made of stone and I defeated a large snake in a pool of water. This is freaking me out but also shedding light on perhaps some of the symbolism behind my dream.
@@Crecganford thank you for your reply! It seems to me that this concept is something that could be deeply engrained in our beings. Or perhaps it could have been a past life situation where the dream was an actual memory of one of these rituals. The dream had a sort of gladiator vibe to it, either way, the themes were uncannily similar to what you're discussing in this video. Thank you for sharing this information!
@adamcarson2086 I am a big believer in what I just call "genetic memory". Basically, memories get encoded in our literal DNA, and that gets passed on, sometimes manifesting as dreams or ideas for stories. Science already acknowledges "instinct" which IS genetic memory, so my theory isn't completely unprecedented. Now what I haven't reconciled is people that have memories from a life that wasn't their ancestor. But who really knows how the universe works.
"In Bulgarian folklore the image of the dragon appears as a creature called “Zmey”. The female Lamia or Hala is also present in Bulgarian folklore. While the male zmey could have human features and even sometimes help people, the female Lamia is always dangerous and malicious. However, the zmey can also look like a person - a young, handsome, strong man with wings under the arms. The dragon has a fiery nature and can sometimes be seen as a flash of lightning or a ball of fire. Elsewhere people even call it "a cloud" and believe that it appears in the sky as a large cloud. Dragons usually inhabit the forests and mountains. That is why people often speak of “Zmey Gorianin”, which means “forest dragon.” Zmeys are usually believed to live in caves, holes, or cracks in the rocks. Even today, dragon legends are related to the Rabishka cave and the cave near the village of Pirin in the region of Sandanski. Dragons can also live in water - lakes, wells, rivers. At various places in Bulgaria names such as Dragon’s House or Dragon’s Well still exist. The dragon looks like a man in many ways: it eats, drinks, gets married, and has offspring. Despite having their own dragon women, zmeys can often fall in love with human girls and young brides and begin to secretly visit them at night. Such women gradually begin to stay away from others and not care much about their appearance as the zmey lover takes all their powers. Many folk songs, performed mainly on Easter, and St. George’s Day, tell the story of dragons descending from the sky and snatching their beloved girls. In other stories the zmey arrives with a whole wedding party of other zmeys riding horses. The dragon’s relationship with his human wife leads to children who look human but have wings under the arms and extraordinary power. People even speak about famous rebels as having wings under the arms and being invulnerable to enemies. In order to protect a young woman from these unwanted lovers a mixture of herbs is used and the girl bathes in it. In folk tales, the Lamia looks like a huge lizard with a dog’s head. Her mouth is so big that it can swallow a whole man and her body is covered with yellow scales. The Lamia also has wings, four legs, sharp claws, and a long tail. Often songs tell us about three-headed, seven-headed or 9-headed Lamias. The Lamia often appears in the form of a storm or hail and destroys crops. Zmeys sometimes fight the Lamias to protect the crops. Folk tales also tell the stories of famous heroes fighting with lamias, such as Krali Marko, who released girls and young men enslaved by the female dragon. One of the most popular Bulgarian tales, "The Three Brothers and the Golden Apple," tells the story of a brave young man who descends to the lower land and saves the king's daughter, shortly before she is eaten by the Lamia. The story is also depicted in many of the later icons of St. George due to the influence of oral traditions on Christianity." Credit: English version: Alexander Markov
I like your work, thanks ! That being said, nobody lived in either of these caves. In fact, cavemen have never existed. We sometimes find temporary campsites under some entrance porches, but almost never deeper. In le tuc d'audoubert, we have some hearths, but these refer to quick stays, probably in relation with the making of the decoration. One noticeable exception is the deep campsite of Enlene, another cave of the same Volp network it shares with le tuc d'audoubert and les trois frères.
Reminds me of the Eastern Slavic 'Zmei Gorynich" -- the three headed dragon, an intelligent creature that lives in a cave. He kidnapps the Russian princess with the goal of either making her his wife, or sacrificing her like he does to the many other women he's kidnapped and ate (theres different versions of the story). A strongman (bogatyr) from the village goes and rescues her. The snake's heads regrow once cut off, but the bogatyr manages to kill it, and gets to marry the Princess. I wonder how old all these legends are , facinating. Thank you for the video!
I think you're right on the snake being related to the story of the boy who fights a dragon for access to water. However I think the headless snake near the water source is to ward off other dragons/ creatures Speculating even further, maybe they thought a dragon would see the headless snake as a castrated dragon phallus and run.
Thanks. I've always thought that dragons might be associated with rivers particularly. The long, meandering shape of a river is just too suggestive to pass up. Also, early hominins might well have viewed snakes as baby dragons who hadn't got their wings yet. They would've noticed that tadpoles grow legs, and that caterpillars get wings. It wouldn't take much imagination. Much later peoples (right up to today!) have certainly thought crazier things! One could easily speculate that killing the 'babies' would ruin the nest and run the 'dragon' away. Of course, it would be fiendishly difficult to back up such ideas, and impossible to prove. As to the cave drawing, I notice the snake is on its back, and is placed below the person (with whom the horses are level), and the buffalo are also upside down, but in the 'sky'. Hmmm... tavi.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It is an interesting image, and can be interpreted in different ways, but I have tried my best to put context around it based on myth, and the most probably version of myth that they may have known.
@@Crecganford I agree fully, of course. Like any science, the best we can hope for is to get as close as the evidence allows. Short of inventing time travel, there are just some things about history we'll never know for certain. Consensus may not be what the average person thinks of when it comes to science, but sometimes it's about all we've got. Even math needs it. tavi.
I cannot help but see the Indo-European dragon-slaying myth partially play out here: Two clay cattle represent the animals stolen by the dragon. Two headless snakes would be the heads of the dragon which were killed by Trito. There would also be a third snake, let loose into the depths of the cave (explaining it's absence), representing the last head of the fleeing dragon Ngwhi. At the end of the ritual, the source of water would be safe to drink for the tribe, and their animals would be free from harm.
The symbol of the serpent in South American history and mythology is so prevalent that I know I do not need to explain much to express that fact. What I would like to mention though is the hundreds of decapitated heads that have been found throughout South America, in particular Peru. There was a group of people there that practiced cranial deformation. Some of the skulls seem to have been shaped intentionally to produce the elongated effect. Some of the skulls appear to have been born that way and exhibit anatomical features not found in homo sapiens. There was clearly an association between the serpent and this so called "elite" class of people. The fact that the remains are always found decapitated and now you show me evidence of snake decapitation rituals being performed it is more than coincidence in my opinion. Why this age old idea of "cutting the head off of the snake" has stuck with us for so long. Great channel by the way.
I might not be interested in all your content but i do enjoy listening to relaxing and soothing way of relating the information your putting out. 😉 Thanks
Perhaps this is a case of sympathetic magic. Another thought is that it's more esoteric and that the cave represents the self and the dragon (snake) represents what must be overcome in order to have access to the water (life). As in Alchemy, Nigredo is the cutting off of the Raven's head (Caput Corvi). Interesting thoughts none the less. Thank you.
Thoughts: 1- Yellow rat tailed snakes live in caves, and since there were rivers associated with he caves, this opens it up to aquatic snakes who hang out in flooded caves, as anyone in Texas might know. 2- The snake might have been killed in a boring old fight. Claiming the lack of broken bones means the snake wasn't attacked means nothing. _The snake had it's head cut off._ So clearly, it was attacked. There's no difference if you cut off a snake in a fight or in a ritual from the snake's perspective. He's not going to lie still because you tell him it's a tradition. Most likely story of the snakes: The snake was in the cave, and the people were working in it. They saw the snake, and killed it. The fact that it's 500 feet from the entrance means it's annoying to take the body out, so if you were working in the cave for say, 4 days, you may take the snake's body out the first 3 days, as likely there were more than one snake, but if you're wrapping up, and another last snake comes too close, chop it and go. leave the body. You see headless snakes in barns and outbuildings like this all the time man. I feel you spent too much time in the library and not enough outside in the field.
I would absolutely love to see you and Aaron Ra sit down and have a discussion on these old texts. You really seem to have studied your ancient writings closely. And I think it would be a interesting conversation. Thank you for all the great info! Love the channel!
I've watched a couple of his videos, although I'm not sure if we are a natural fit as he seems very focused on the Abrahamic religion, but I can reach out to him.
@@Crecganford he's not a religious man but he definitely knows his religious text. And if you ask me it's rare even within the religious circles to find somebody who's actually studied the text. Even if you're not a religious person there's a very interesting history in there that's worth checking out.
@@Crecganford it would definitely be a fun video to hear the different opinions on different ways people live back then and everything. If it ever happens make sure you tag me LOL but hopefully I'll see it, I like watching your channel anyways so I figure I would know it was happening.
I enjoy you videos very much, and have been trying to catch up with them all. I am not there yet, and maybe you have addressed this before, but what is the significance of the name of this excellent channel? Is it a favorite battle of yours?
Hello, and thank you for watching my content and subscribing. And so Crecgcanford, meaning a ford over a creek, is the name of a place where a battle took place in 475/6CE and is known today as Crayford, the ford of the River Cray. And its significance is that it is where I lived throughout my childhood, and it has so much history it is a very interesting place to be. I hope that all makes sense?
These myths would date between 30k and 1k, and then probability determines the likelihood of them being told at the time and locale. This information is detailed within the research itself to which I link the main paper to in this videos description.
Sorry to post something of a digression here, but it is tied to the subject of different names and interpretations of the same manifestations, be they creatures such as dragons, or divine beings such as Yemo, the lord of the underworld, known as Yama in the eastern tradition, and Enma in Japan, which you have already covered in great depth. In Japan, the Boddhisatva Jizo is more widely known through Asia as Kṣitigarbha, the patron of travellers and children. Now, his job description is very, very similar to that of Saint Christopher, AND rivers are a key part of their legend, too. Now, try as I might, I can't find anyone online who claims they are connected, beyond their job descriptions, but I'm sensing something more - to me, even the consonant sounds of the names "Chrisopher" and "Kṣitigarbha" hint at a common root. Am I completely barking madly up the wrong tree, or maybe, just maybe, like Yemo and Yama, are they both pointing towards a common, primordial Indo-European root?
That is a great question, and if we consider the Abrahamic, and in fact other religions too, made demons and angels out of other gods, then there maybe a link. It is something I haven’t ever deeply investigated, but it sounds like an interesting area to invest some time. Thank you again for sharing your thoughts. It is very interesting.
Fascinating presentation! When I was young many people said that snakes were wet and slimy even though of course they are dry. I assume this maybe from earlier associations with water. Mark Bradley hypothesises that the serpents described as blue or "caeruleus" in colour is so because of the serpents' movements like water and its association with the sea. There seems to be a lot of serpent / water symbolism as you state; I assume from the snakes' movements, shape etc. Also perhaps confusion with eels which certainly live in rivers. One thing that I wondered about the horses is whether they were perhaps also symbolic of water or rainfall because of their fast running and hammering hooves? This could later be reincarnated in myths about cows trapped in caves such as in Indian myth and also Greek myth?
The horse link is very interesting, and I would assume it is primarily that horses gathered around water holes, and so humans so that as meaning the water hole was safe. Although I have no firm evidence of this, but like most things, I am sure there are a number of reasons at play.
@@jonstfrancis hello :) EastEuropean here. We have several kinds of water snakes which reside mainly in water, my grandparents which led a very humble agricultural life always warned us to be careful around ponds because snakes are amazing in disguising and can be hardly seen in even just a few centimeters of water. Me being a complete idiot catched my first snake at around 10 years, had the perfect Y-shaped stick to secure the head and also the snake was very small around 30 40 cm. I brought it to my granma and before i can ask if we can keep it as pet, she grabbed the shovel and sliced her in a few sushi pieces in seconds.
@@pt7181 Poor snake! That's interesting you have snakes like that. In western Europe we do have a snake Natrix natrix that hunts frogs and can swim. So yes it does seem snakes would have been seen in water.
Hey, with that art of the supine snake over the river, with the man and the horses, you COULD interpet the underside of the front horse's neck as ALSO forming the outline of a second snake head. Sort of like two faces close to each other looking like a goblet.
the story with the imposter that marries someone else while the hero is away to slay the dragon reminds me a lot like oddyseus myth. where he and his men are captured by the cyclops which trick and blind with a spear before they return home.
Yes, there is some commonality here, and I will talk about this more in the future. I am just pulling together a significant amount of research right now to help explain this.
One species was a grass snake, that is the one I show a picture of, the other I couldn't find more information on other than it was a particularly long snake.
I can talk about these a little, my education is in mythology, and literature, as opposed to archaeology. But where it is appropriate I will do my best.
Very good video, full of interesting things about our past. 👍 I've seen first hand what a horse that hates snakes can do, it's not pretty or finished until snake pulp is properly created. Horses in general can be amazingly vicious fighters and become a whole different beast when doing so. Which makes me all the more amazed that we can ride them and that they can actually love you and will fight for you.
@@Crecganford The seven sisters video was also very good and interesting. Living in "big sky country" AKA Montana, the sky/stars are amazing here. Appreciate the your reply here, you got another sub. 👍
The idea of a multiheaded snake carving out rivers is intriguing. Maybe they thought by cutting off the head, they could prevent the fresh water from reaching the sea where it becomes undrinkable.
Great video. I cannot concur with the claim that ritual does not make myth. They are definitely linked, I agree, but I think the influence goes both ways.
if there was no damage to the skeleton that suggests the behading was clean...which inturn suggests a sharp swordlike instrument was used. Also consider the difficulty of clean beheading a snake...this was a highly skilled ritual which most modern people could never perform
These findings like your orien-star video rewrite human history suggesting human civilization was highly skilled upto 20,000 years ago, capable of making swords etc
//dragon is killed to create the world// or the snake/dragon represents "satan" and is beheaded as a sin-purification process. The modern-era may have replaced this ritual with baptism, holy communion etc
I like drinking tea, though I have not slain any dragons... ..yet. Thank you for your interpretation of these profound stories, you are awakening something that I had foolishly assumed was forgotten. May you and your channel live forever.
@@Crecganford I didn't say I haven't needed to slay any. I've generally ignored their existence and allowed them to get stronger. I'm going to need a bigger axe. Thanks for helping me choose one.
There are innumerable examples of snakes living in and around caves. Even very deeply within. The thing that sets this apart is its condition and the missing head.
@@Crecganfordhey... So the reason the dragon/ snake is so prevalent across all of human existence is because that is what we are. All indigenous cultures have used large quantities of Psychedelic plant medicine and at high enough doses you arrive a one eternal truth . Namely " The Cosmic Serpent". .. these are not myths or hallucinations. All of reality is giant cosmic snake. An intertwining of the black and the rainbow snake. It is what each of us is inside. We are the cosmic snake inhabiting a human form. Its where every religion has its roots and it's why every culture refers to snakes/ serpents/ dragons in their origin story. It's why north american indians have serpent mounds. It's why the Chinese have their dragons it's why the Greeks have the asclepius staff. Its why the egyptian headdress has the cobra coming out of forehead at the 3rd eye. It's why all of hindu religion is so reverent of snakes. It really is every where. From australian first Nations people to indigenous tribes in soth America to Celtic traditions in Ireland. Its why the snake in the garden of eden story is the bringer of knowledge. I could go on and on. Hope this is something you're open to and find interesting.
Are there any old rituals you would like to know more about?
Mesolithic labyrinth rituals from Scandinavia?
I would love your take on the evidence for human sacrifice in Ireland, Wales, Man, and Cornwall. Is it dubious? Is it real? Under what context might it have been used?
Seconding human sacrifice In the UK
The Minotaur and the human sacrifice ritual linked to him
Cleansing rituals
Regeneration rituals.
My interest is cleaning of soul, more associated with regeneration, not exorcism.
And regeneration associated with restoring stability in environment.
Crecganford my apologies to you if these topics are well covered in history of your posts.
I'm new here.
In Poland we have a legend about the dragon living in a cave under the royal castle in Kraków, former Polish capital. The oldest written version is from the 12th century and tells about a dragon terrorizing the population of Kraków, forcing them to sacrifice cattle to him. The king's sons were unable to defeat the dragon in battle, so they fed him a cattle skin stuffed with smoldering sulfur, causing his fiery death. After that younger son killed his brother in order to be able to inherit the throne and told his father that he had died fighting the dragon. The dragon cave under the castle can be visited to this day by tourists and in front of it there is a fire-breathing statue of a dragon.
Thank you for sharing that story, I love hearing these local tales, so fascinating.
So cool!
@@Crecganford greetings, the headless bear could mean that the starsighn bear was with its head below the horizont, indicater of an earthcrust displacement, anothe sky?????
@@asashoryuLapisphilosophorum nah
The myth of St. George slaying the Dragon is at least as old as from the 11th century AD in Cappadocia, but even in Pre-Christian times the myth existed: Perseus and Andromeda f.ex…
Even my hometown, Holstebro, Jutland, Denmark, ended up with this motif in the City Coat of Arms, apparently through a fusion of a coat of arms depicting how the city bridge was defended - a crowned knight on horseback with his lance levelled for combat and the myth of St. George with its root in Christianity and Humane Care…
Safe passage over the river, Storåen, was valuable for the cattle trade, which was a major part of Jutland's export and the crowned knight may have signified that the King supported the armed defence of the trade route.
My favourite "dragon ritual" is stepping into my local pub, 'The George and Dragon', walking up to the humourless, sourfaced lady behind the bar, and asking "is George in?".
Is the lady behind the bar the metaphorical dragon?
She does control the waters of life.
😆😆😆
that poor woman
Is that the old one in London? The hipster place that has a Jazz night?
I can imagine people in the tribe being told this stories deep in the cave by an elder, lighted by torches, with the sound of running water around. It would have felt overwhelming and otherworldly.
This series about dragons keeps getting better and better. thank you so much
I only have one more dragon story right now and I may save that. But will be doing a couple of shows on other RUclips channels talking about dragons soon.
Oh I love that imagery, and also the cave paintings flickering in the torch light and the sound of the elder's voice enhanced by the cave. No wonder these people believed in such awesome tales.
On mushrooms more like
@@jednmorf u
I always enjoy how this channel holistically covers mythology/folklore and archeology.
Thank you, it's my aim to do this, and in a good amount of detail too.
@@Crecganford Hello Jon , I was listening and enjoying this recent video when it reminded me of Rattlesnakes in the south west of the US. I was working on cattle ranches in the south west states in the 1980's. Did you know that when you severe the head of the rattlesnake the body keeps moving, the rattle keeps rattling and the head keeps snapping. The indigenous people of the area all stated to me that the body and head of the snake had to be buried separately or the snake could come back to life. I thought it kinda flows with this video and I wanted to share this with you. Keep up the great work, and a great weekend.
In romanian folklore there are many stories about this young and handsome man (Făt-Frumos) who fights a dragon-like creature ('zmeu' or 'balaur') because he kidnapped one or three princesses and made them his wifes. With the great help of his wise and magic horse and sometimes of other animals or mythological beings, the hero reaches the Other Realm (Tărămul Celălalt), chops the dragon's head or heads, marry the girls and they live happily ever after.
'Zmeu' is a scale-covered humanoid with one or three heads or even nine in some stories, and has a snake tale, legs, arms, the ability to create and use artifacts such as weapons, and to ride a horse, and has the desire to marry young girls. Sometimes he appears in the sky altough he has no wings, and spits fire, or has the ability to change form.
'Balaur' is a more serpent-shaped creature, with three, seven or nine heads. In some stories it has wings. It kidnapps young princesses, and sometimes lives in a well or a lake. It can be summoned by a wizard (Solomonar), who then rides and use the Balaur to controll the weather. Also when two Balauri meet and fight in the air, there ensues various meteorological damages.
Both Zmeu and Balaur die only by getting all their heads chopped off.p
I can now link that stories to your neolithic dragon mith as there are many similarilies.
Thank you for watching and sharing such a fantastic story, I do love reading about these things.
Hey neighbour :) in Bulgaria we also have Zmei for a giant dragon or serpent
Hey, Zmeu really sounds similar to Croatian/Serbian "Zmaj" which is literal translation to Dragon in English
Kindly have a look at the semitic dragon or Arabian dragon.
✡ 🐉 🐍. It was used for magic rituals. 🎩
@@multivitamin425 Zmey/zmej is almost the exact equivalent of the english concept of a great "serpent" as a dragon.
Dude, I wish I knew this when I was teaching Beowulf. So much of what the hero does mirrors Indo-European myth.
It would, and I want to produce a video on Beowulf myself, that story is so very good.
@@Crecganford Really looking forward to that.
@@Crecganford Cannot wait!
I believe this is far pre-Indo-European. Paleolithic peoples of 17,000 BC would be even before the Anatolian neolithic farmers spread west into European heartland in 7,000 BC thereabouts who were in turn supplanted by conquest and migration by the Indo-European Danubic culture only by around post-6,000 BC at the earliest in this region, probably post-4,500. I'm no authority on the subject but that's my two-cents. It's interesting though to see this parallel evolution of beliefs and, who knows, maybe dragons of the European tradition come from this separate much earlier arriving autochthonous people! I can't recall any dragons in our understanding of Indo-European myth off-hand, with the sky father and the twin horse princes and all that, but my knowledge of that stuff just isn't there yet so idrk
Crecganford has become a staple of my weekend viewings. Cannot thank you enough for the wonderful content, Jon!
And thank you for your support and for watching!
Fascinating work as always. I always go back to Persian mythology and find interesting similarities between what you say and what has been recorded in Shahname. Besides the story of Zahhak/Azhidahak which is clearly a dragon figure usurping the throne, I remembered a curious case of Rostam and his superhero horse Rakhsh (meaning light) fighting and slaying a dragon on his seven-phase epic journey to set the captured shah free and it is Rakhsh who kills the dragon 🐉
I love hearing these stories, and so thank you for watching and sharing.
I’m surprised how detailed and realistic the clay bison are. And in such good shape 😍
I know, it is amazing. I love discovering archaeological finds like this.
Incredible how much we can reconstruct from this ritual using other myths. I love this channel!
Thank you for watching, and your kind words.
It reminds me a lot of the philosophy behind the reconstruction of the proto-indoeuropean language. Very interesting, even if we'll never truly know the exact details or how correct we are.
@@kylewilliams8114 What we do know, and know very well, we can't walk into other peoples' caves and interpret their symbols for them. Even the caves of people who are alive today. That's how we know "this method" doesn't work.
I'm rewriting these into my own stories as a way to try to keep them alive. Keep up the good work, my friend! And thank you!
Thank you, and I wish you success in your endevours.
The appearance of similar motifs in South American and Australian Aboriginal cultures suggests that some of our mythologies are a great deal older than is generally suspected, perhaps even originating in Africa more than a hundred thousand years ago. I'm particularly interested in any insight you may have regarding fire rituals and parables, such as those we find in the stories of Prometheus & Pandora and in some Siberian and Native American raven legends. Just about every culture has/had some kind of fire god, usually associated with cautionary tales about the reckless pursuit of power ("a dangerous servant and frightful master"), and the common threads running through them seem to indicate that we've been sharing these fables for as long as we've been human enough to gather around a hearth.
I haven't discussed fire motifs yet, but I have discussed about the origins of the dragon myth which touches on Australia and South Africa, it is the video I recommend at the end of this video and is really worth a watch if you haven't seen it yet.
Ancient north Eurasian belief
What is the significance of your profile picture, if you would be so kind as to share?
No … If it was in South Africa … it was imported from else where
Interesting. The mention of 'The Tain' pronounced "Toyne" is steeped in ancient Celtic mythology and is translated to 'The Cattle Raid of Cooley' from a time when wealth was measured in herds. If my memory is correct all the hero's battles take place at fords or river crossings. It is part of the Annals of Ulster and only survives today thanks to the early literate Christian monks who wrote them down. Their origins are unknown but considered to be ancient folklore by the time the Celts arrived in Ireland.
The Tain is one of my favourite stories, so many Indo-European motifs are hidden within it. I do touch on it in a number of my videos because of this.
I hope all the research you are doing for this series is something you will be collating into a popular book on history and dispersal of dragon mythology.
In a few years I hope to release a couple of books talking about many of the things I have discussed on this channel.
A quick thought, the serpent has connections with the constellation Hyades. Often with the dragons head, Hyades, being wounded while attacking the foot or heel of a the hero, the constellation Orion. The constellation Eridanus (Jordan) the celestial river is located below and between Orion and The Hyades (and wider Taurus). This has relationships to the story of Adam, Moses and the Serpent staff as well as inability to cross the Jordan, Ra and the Serpent shaped as a dart, Thor and Hrungnir on the boat, among others. The Hyades are the “rainy” or watery constellation.
Yes, it seems to me that the constellations were created to align to myth, and so this would make sense.
I love this channel. So we’ll researched and we can learn so much from our ancient ancestors. They were Homo sapiens - just as curious and creative and intelligent as we are - you can see that in these myths. And the routes to various permutations of myths including dragons, storm gods, snakes, floods seem so clear now. Fascinating. Thank you.
And thank you for watching and taking the time to comment such kind and interesting words.
Thank you for promoting and discussing the beliefs of our ancestors and bringing them to life for our folk in these modern times. It is important to discuss the ways of our European forebears. Thank you again.
And thank you fro watching, and taking the time to comment.
This really has some value in todays world, you’re doing a great work here
Thank you so much for watching, and for your kind words.
I’m sorry, but from a molehill of fact a mountain of surmise is developed. There is a massive jump from a small snake to a gigantic multi/headed monster.
@@robertmiller5258 Entertain this, this ritual and the myth of the Greek Hydra didn’t happen overnight. You’re forgetting the gigantic span of time and development this motif went through to arrive at where it is today in its various forms around the world. Simply saying that it looks like too big of a jump from this to that isn’t taking all the evidence into consideration. Also we don’t know what other contexts of this ritual have disappeared through time and erosion. The fact that two instances in two different places this was found says a lot about the possibility of this sort of ritual being done in this time period.
Perfect timing, I just got back from a fair about Eastern cultures and bought an Italian pizza. I thought "this would be the perfect moment to watch a Crecganford video" and you released a new one today. Thanks
And thank you for watching it, I hope you enjoy your pizza!
@@Crecganford Your videos have been fuelling an interest in Indo European culture I've had for more than a decade, shedding light to many things I wanted to know about. Thank you very much
Absolutely love this channel. Thank you for the vids you keep on making!
And thank you for watching them!
While you were explaining, i remembered another such myth from the puranas/upanishads(which comes after vedas)... This isnt about Indra killing Vrtra, but its about Krishna(Vishnu) harming Kalinga. This myth is waaay younger and newer compared to the Vrtra slaying myth. I think the people adopted this myth when gods like shiva, vishnu and brahma were taking over the main head pantheon which consisted of indra before.. (Although Indra, Agni, Varuna and other gods are still there, they are only prayed during religious ceremonies... A local man(nowadays) does not pray to these gods, they mainly pray to the Trinity{shiva, vishnu, and sometimes brahma}), but we do know that long time ago, atleast according to the rig vedas, the ancient gods like Indra, Agni, etc were prayed to more
In this myth we see that a snake has taken control over this huge river, and anyone who drank from it died due to the snake's poison. The snake is depicted as having many heads. Krishna had enough of this snake, and went to slay it... He dove into the waters and came up to the surface while dancing on the many heads of the snake. The snake begged for krishna to stop dancing, and thats when krishna struck a deal with the snake to never enter the waters again, and therefore freeing the river!
Thank you for sharing this, I do love hearing these stories.
Very similar to the Greek myth of the Gorgon, of course.
I'm a Gael (Scots Irish) and we have a blue one eyed hag goddess with a protruding tongue who is triple in aspect and is the goddess of death.
She's called Cailleach in Scotland and Morrigan in Ireland.
Just thought that may be of any interest to any Hindus that may be reading this ;)
Oh man, you have such good content but your voice is so soothing that I end up in a daze and don't remember a thing!
Ah, hence why you should drink a caffeine infused beverage, or watch the video a couple of times :) Thank you for watching, and for you comment.
The reccomendation of a cuppa, is more a prescription than a suggestion :D
This is amazing! The presents of the horses is extraordinary. This is long, long before the domestication of the horse. Now horses don't like poisonous snakes and will stomp them to death striking with there front feet. Here in America we have water snakes, cottonmouths and water moccasins. Both of these are deadly. It would be interesting to see if they could get any DNA off of the sacrificed snakes to see if they were indeed a poisonous species. But the horses are really important. About 6 months ago it came out that the current domesticated horses did not come from the horses that were first domesticated. These were the ancestors of the Przwalski Horse who moved to east and eventually let them run wild again. So they are beginning to try to figure out where the current horses came from. This bone may be an indication of it. Interestingly enough the spotted horses on the caves in Spain prove the existence of the Leopard gene that is present in several breeds currently. All of those breeds trace back to Spain. It is a recessive gene so it can hide for generations and crop up again if you are deliberately breeding for it. The snowy conditions would have favored that pattern for a camouflage. These horses are certain to be part of the answer to the puzzle. You should check out the people doing the work on the horse DNA. I think it may point them to places to search that will help them.
Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment, it is very interesting, especially the origins of the horse and how they were used by our ancestors. Thank you for sharing.
I agree! I would much rather face a poisonous snake with a horse than a dog. I’ve seen horses trample cottonmouths and rattlesnakes in seconds! Growing up in Oklahoma even if I wasn’t riding my aunt and uncle always had a horse with me when I was in the field to protect me from snakes.
@@reverie6034 : Yes, the mongoose may be effective at fighting snakes, but that is only from speed, being able to out-range them is far more reliable.
It would be interesting if humans and horses occasionally worked together to fight against snakes before domestication. Even today, some of the hunter-gatherer tribes of the african Great Rift Valley only seriously fear snakes, not any of the other dangers of the area. It may well be that this common tendency is part of why humans domesticated horses so early.
Thank you so much for this. Fascinating. During your talk I thought of related/ derivative stories such as Perseus-Pegasus-Medusa/snake, Eve/ wife-Serpent-knowledge, Dian Cécht (Irish healer god)-slays the triple snakes/Méche-scatters the remains in a river (Berba)... It makes me think of how important are the findings of such caves, with their wall art, carvings and bones to our modern interpretation of ancient culture and beliefs. I look forward to further findings that can allow specialists such as "Crecganford" to confirm, revise and elaborate further. Thanks again. I love your channel !
Thank you for watching, and for taking the time to comment. It is appreciated. And yes, once you start understanding some of the earliest motifs you start seeing them everywhere.
Love your channel, you really bring the past to life! I am always curious about what the day to day experience would have been like for our ancestors and how they would have viewed the world. Thanks for sharing this research!
I would love to know that too, and we can only guess. But I try and understand their beliefs and culture, to help us have some idea. Thank you for watching.
@Crecganford Having just finished watching all of your content over the last few weeks, it is nice to see someone dive so deep into mythology and its origins. As a christian (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints), I do not feel offended by your opinions on Christianity, but enjoy the opportunity to see how things are connected and how far back the origins of belief and myth can go. Thank you for your efforts and time in developing this content!
I have casually noticed a lot of "dragon guards a magical item usually involving knowledge" usually associated with some sort of knowledge tree. It's curious to see other dragon motifs.
Pretty sure ancient people had to deal with snakes while climbing trees to get the better fruit towards the top. I assure you most of these myths stem from completely mundane things
@@SevenPr1me the mundanity of myths makes them no less potent.
@@alethearia the potency you speak of is...purely imaginary
@@SevenPr1me The views of ones people can only be understood by them.
Awesome video, Jon. Thanks for doing all that hard work and research. This is fascinating. If you know of anymore Stone Age proto myths and rituals, I’d love to hear them.
Thank you. There aren't that many, but I will do them as and when I have enough information and a good enough story to wrap them in.
Heck… these videos are always so friggin good
And thank you for watching them.
Always good to hear you tell us tales. I wish I had been listening to tales like this since childhood, but have no problem catching up now lol.💚🐢
It is a fascinating story when you realise how long ago these tales were told. I wish I could listen to how they spoke and communicated.
@@Crecganford that would be amazing! But I’m still just as excited when you’re doing the telling 😊
As usual this was fascinating. I appreciate your amazing wealth of knowledge and the ease with which you explain myth and all its various connections. I'm curious about the relationship between the snake, water, moon, bull and labyrinths as symbols in myth. Would you consider that as a future topic? Thanks for contributing to my lifelong learning.
Thank you for watching, and some of these connections I will talk about in the future, certainly the snake and the moon will be in a video towards the end of October. I hope you come back to watch that.
Its my first time seeing a video by you and I'm loving your breakdowns step by step. This video made me subscribe. I really like history and mythology.
Thank you for your kind words, I do hope you like some of the other videos too.
Ooh, so cool! Definitely do more videos on Paleolithic Europeans! This is so interesting!
Thank you, I have a few ideas, and so watch this space!
The “fish” talked about in the art areactually symbols representing signs. Like chevrons on a Sargent, or stars on an admiral, they convey the meaning of social placeholder. There are many reoccurring symbols in the caves that use symbols that translate a message into the current occupier of the cave since most were used as shelters in winter but were mostly empty when times were good. They could’ve even be a shopping list traveling merchants that spoke a different language but recognized the universal symbols.
Yes, that means ancient man had a form of writing, and were in contact with other clans over vast distances.
Thank you for watching, and for your comment. But is that an opinion, or are you citing a peer-reviewed and credible academic source? In which case would you share that source as I am interested in all interpretations.
Interesting that one man, Melanthios, cut his hair to triumph, but another man, Samson, lost his strength when his hair was cut.
I was always interested in the two dragons who fought in the Merlin tales. I assumed they were thought to cause earthquakes and toppled the castles built above. Of course I only read of this story as written by Mary Stewart.
I understand that even today, some Asian countries still construct dragon holes in tall buildings so that the wind dragon will not topple them. Which I consider to be at least partly ritual behavior.
This tells me more about the psychology of the researcher than the beliefs of anyone in the ancient world.
Really? This intrigues me... that retelling of an academic paper can describe my psychology, especially considering the eclectic nature of the papers I often retell.
Man I'm glad I found this channel. All four videos I've watched have been just top-notch. New sub incoming!
Thank you so much.
What's incredibly interesting is in Welsh myth, the dragon is a representation if the people, who's home is located in the Eyri. The dragon essentially is a protector, and a being that holds all our strength. It's why the red dragon is on our flag, with the story coming from at least the middle ages.
This seems so strange because in my indoeuropean country we see snakes as sacred, associated with wisdom and the Earth goddess. Even some 100 years ago it was considered an evil act to kill a snake. They were even fed near house. I wonder how we ended up with this sacred snake if protoindoeuropeans hated snakes.
I know Anglo Saxons hated snakes, and so did cultures long before the Indo-Europeans.
I was so looking forward to this! This really made my day, thank you! ❤🐉🐉🐉
And I hope you enjoyed it.
Well said Jon! My wife would approve of the decapitation of snakes. She can't even look at a picture of one! I mentioned before the serpent Bakunawa in Visayan mythology. The moon-eating serpent that lives in the ocean. That one was never killed, and at least until recently people used to call out "Iuli kanamo ang among buwan" ("Return our moon") whenever there was a lunar eclipse, so that Bakunawa would spit out the moon. There is also a lingering belief in the provinces here that when there is an earthquake, it is caused by a giant crocodile ("buaya") under the ground. So the people rush out of their houses and call out "Bua! Bua!". My wife Ling Ling heard people doing this as recently as late 2019. "The footsteps of the ancestors are still to be seen"!
I have been bingeing your videos, I don't think I have much tea left at this point
This is incredibly fascinating, I will binge watch your videos later
I hope you enjoy them!
Crecganford is an insanely cool guy. This is suchhhhhhhhhh rad subject to cover
Thank you for your kind words.
Love the channel, amazing content. I would love to see you explore some of the myths and archeological sites you speak of physically. Is travelling around an option for you?
Travelling will be an option next year, and is certainly is a major part of my plans over the next five years.
This video made me think of several things. The first thought I had was about how medieval dragons spit poison rather than breathe fire, as there are cases currently in study about spitting snakes whose biological mechanism is literally for attacking human/primates eyes with poison. Secondly, I immediately thought of St. George slaying the dragon as now being more connected to an older myth versus simply an analogy to a Roman Commander besieging a city. Thirdly, birds also got mentioned, so I started thinking about Native American Thunderbird striking down Uktena, as well as how St. Micheal being a human figure with bird-like wings striking down the Devil (extremely different stories, but they resemble bird-like entities striking down dragon-like entities). Fourthly, I think of potential subconscious replication of snake slaying myths in caves and/or near water in modern media, such as Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. Not to jump into a European biased perspective of a Beiring Strait theory, but these dragon slaying myths might be evidence for homo sapiens deriving from one place on our planet.
I have produced a video on the origin of the dragon myth, and so dragons. You may find that very interesting indeed.
Insights into cave art meaning is so rare. This is great.
I hope you cover more cave art in the future.
Agree.
Yes, I will, where I can make some sense of it
@@Crecganford I'm obviously not speaking for the original poster, but I would be thrilled if you highlighted patterns across time and space - more horses/lions/etc. or hands/hands missing digits, when and where.
In this video, you helped me see a pattern I've never noticed before: where there was a river AND a cave during the era of art and/or ritual, and how that might change the purpose or meaning of the art.
I will definitely be re-watching this one more than once.
I enjoyed this video a lot! As usual!
General question, but do you have advice about gathering credible resources for making historian fiction set in prehistory?
Thank you. I admire people who do this as it isn't easy as our knowledge expands, and occasionally alters, with time. If it were me, although my head is academic as opposed to a story writer, I would say identify the important aspects of what you are writing about, and then look up the latest academic papers on such things. And try and make them fit together.
@@Crecganford Thank you!
In Altay (Turkic) mythology there're plenty of dragons but there's a specific story of 2 dragons figthing each other for 9 years.
Before the times of man there were dragons roaming the land. The most powerful among them was ''Sangal'' the evil one, it dominated all others and stole their ''Töz'' (somethimes it means the soul sometimes its just jewels in the story). Sangal lived in a cave, stashing all the töz he stole deep down, thinking ''Tengri'' (God) would not see him there. One day ''Büke'' (sometimes referred to as Bükrek) the youngest among them climbed up to a mountain and called for Tengri, when Tengri answered him he told him about Sangal. Tengri descended from the sky, and asked all the others if Büke was telling the truth. In fear of Sangal, they all kept their silence, then Tengri told Büke that he was jelous of Sangal as he was the youngest and Sangal was the eldest. Tengri told Büke that he should be ashamed he called his name and only told lies to his face. After Tengri ascended to sky, Sangal came out of his cave and jumped on Büke, starting a fight. Büke knew he did not have a töz, it was stolen by the Sangal, if he were to die it would be his end. So Büke kept fighting evasively. 2 dragons kept fighting each other for 9 years. One day Tengri would hear the voices of roaring dragons on the land, he would descend from the sky to see them fighting. The others would now tell Tengri all the truth. Tengri then gave Büke ''wings made out of heavenly clouds'' in the midddle of the fight. Büke overcame Sangal and pierced his chest with claws and teeth. All the blood and flesh bursted out of him spread all across the existence creating the life.
Tengri said he would only give Büke his töz back, the stolen töz of the others were given to the life created by the blood and flesh of Sangal. This new life would be named Ebren (Evren in todays Turkic langs. and it means universe). Tengri ascended to skies taking Büke with him. And this is how the life is created. (according to this story)
I also know the metaphoric meanings of this story but I better keep it short.
Source: All the Turks living around Altay mountains today, it is still told by the elders to kids as a bedtime story.
Thank you so much for sharing this, I love reading these things. Thank you.
It is also consistent with the snakes representing a destructive comet and/or meteors. See also the Lascaux shaft scene and Gobekli Tepe where it is clear snakes represent meteors. Comet impacts generate water - rain, floods, tsunamis etc.
I do believe this was a motif, but it was not a significant one that transferred itself to mythology, although the reason for this is as I mention in my previous video, on the origins of dragon myths. And that is that stories have different meaning to myths, and so aren't necessarily told in the same way.
Woman forced to marry a one-eyed snake. What could that be a symbol of? Brings whole new meaning to Odin the One-Eyed! LOL
Great channel with excellent commentary. Formula for success.
Thank you.
Hi John,
Your videos are amazing, they are informative and entertaining, I like to watch your videos.
I have one complaint.
The Hindi subtitles are a little confusing though, the grammar and sentences are not coherent sometimes. The spellings of words are good though. Please take cognisance of this 🙏
I have been watching your channel from the past 6 to 7 months now and I love your oldest myths video series, especially the origins of religion one.
Thanks 🙏👍
Whilst I try my best to ensure subtitles are good, and certainly better than auto-generated ones, I just don't have the time and resources to check everything all the time. But I hope with time I will get better, and there are more and more tools out there that maybe able to help me improve the quality further.
The song about the Lambton Wyrm springs to mind.
Great video!
While other people have added some more about the dragon mythology, I'd like to point out we are talking about the Pyrenees here.
Not so far from Carcassonne, Rennes Le Chateau, Cathar & troubadour country, and on the other side, the West side of the Pyrenees, is Basque country, another enigma of history, with its language we still can't categorize properly, and apparently lots of Dolmens and Cromlechs in Basque country as well!
I always find the Pyrenees really exude mystery to anyone who visits them!
When I was younger I had a dream that I was in a sort of colosseum or arena seemed like made of stone and I defeated a large snake in a pool of water. This is freaking me out but also shedding light on perhaps some of the symbolism behind my dream.
That’s fascinating, I wonder where you pulled the imagery from at such a young age?
@@Crecganford thank you for your reply! It seems to me that this concept is something that could be deeply engrained in our beings. Or perhaps it could have been a past life situation where the dream was an actual memory of one of these rituals. The dream had a sort of gladiator vibe to it, either way, the themes were uncannily similar to what you're discussing in this video. Thank you for sharing this information!
@adamcarson2086 I am a big believer in what I just call "genetic memory". Basically, memories get encoded in our literal DNA, and that gets passed on, sometimes manifesting as dreams or ideas for stories.
Science already acknowledges "instinct" which IS genetic memory, so my theory isn't completely unprecedented.
Now what I haven't reconciled is people that have memories from a life that wasn't their ancestor. But who really knows how the universe works.
"In Bulgarian folklore the image of the dragon appears as a creature called “Zmey”. The female Lamia or Hala is also present in Bulgarian folklore. While the male zmey could have human features and even sometimes help people, the female Lamia is always dangerous and malicious.
However, the zmey can also look like a person - a young, handsome, strong man with wings under the arms. The dragon has a fiery nature and can sometimes be seen as a flash of lightning or a ball of fire. Elsewhere people even call it "a cloud" and believe that it appears in the sky as a large cloud.
Dragons usually inhabit the forests and mountains. That is why people often speak of “Zmey Gorianin”, which means “forest dragon.” Zmeys are usually believed to live in caves, holes, or cracks in the rocks. Even today, dragon legends are related to the Rabishka cave and the cave near the village of Pirin in the region of Sandanski. Dragons can also live in water - lakes, wells, rivers. At various places in Bulgaria names such as Dragon’s House or Dragon’s Well still exist.
The dragon looks like a man in many ways: it eats, drinks, gets married, and has offspring. Despite having their own dragon women, zmeys can often fall in love with human girls and young brides and begin to secretly visit them at night. Such women gradually begin to stay away from others and not care much about their appearance as the zmey lover takes all their powers. Many folk songs, performed mainly on Easter, and St. George’s Day, tell the story of dragons descending from the sky and snatching their beloved girls. In other stories the zmey arrives with a whole wedding party of other zmeys riding horses. The dragon’s relationship with his human wife leads to children who look human but have wings under the arms and extraordinary power. People even speak about famous rebels as having wings under the arms and being invulnerable to enemies. In order to protect a young woman from these unwanted lovers a mixture of herbs is used and the girl bathes in it.
In folk tales, the Lamia looks like a huge lizard with a dog’s head. Her mouth is so big that it can swallow a whole man and her body is covered with yellow scales. The Lamia also has wings, four legs, sharp claws, and a long tail. Often songs tell us about three-headed, seven-headed or 9-headed Lamias. The Lamia often appears in the form of a storm or hail and destroys crops. Zmeys sometimes fight the Lamias to protect the crops.
Folk tales also tell the stories of famous heroes fighting with lamias, such as Krali Marko, who released girls and young men enslaved by the female dragon. One of the most popular Bulgarian tales, "The Three Brothers and the Golden Apple," tells the story of a brave young man who descends to the lower land and saves the king's daughter, shortly before she is eaten by the Lamia. The story is also depicted in many of the later icons of St. George due to the influence of oral traditions on Christianity."
Credit:
English version: Alexander Markov
Great video, the first I've seen but now subscribing and ready to enjoy more videos! Thanks for the interesting information!
Thank you for watching and your support, I hope you like some of the other videos too.
Oog: Hey Unk, Oog kill snake. You want?
Unk: No want, snake give Unk heartburn, throw in back of cave
Not an impossible theory...
I like your work, thanks ! That being said, nobody lived in either of these caves. In fact, cavemen have never existed. We sometimes find temporary campsites under some entrance porches, but almost never deeper. In le tuc d'audoubert, we have some hearths, but these refer to quick stays, probably in relation with the making of the decoration. One noticeable exception is the deep campsite of Enlene, another cave of the same Volp network it shares with le tuc d'audoubert and les trois frères.
Check out the Native American SW.
The myth of Perseus decapitating Medusa is also a version of that dragon slaying story it seems to me. Doesn't he afterwards also marry a princess?
Yes, it is an adaptation of that as various motifs have been modified. Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment.
Interesting! And it causes a shower of blood which turns into a flying horse!
Never seen or heard of these two bison! Amazing!
Reminds me of the Eastern Slavic 'Zmei Gorynich" -- the three headed dragon, an intelligent creature that lives in a cave. He kidnapps the Russian princess with the goal of either making her his wife, or sacrificing her like he does to the many other women he's kidnapped and ate (theres different versions of the story). A strongman (bogatyr) from the village goes and rescues her. The snake's heads regrow once cut off, but the bogatyr manages to kill it, and gets to marry the Princess.
I wonder how old all these legends are , facinating. Thank you for the video!
I think you're right on the snake being related to the story of the boy who fights a dragon for access to water. However I think the headless snake near the water source is to ward off other dragons/ creatures
Speculating even further, maybe they thought a dragon would see the headless snake as a castrated dragon phallus and run.
Another solid video, Jon!
Thank you J S!
iv'e been waiting on this vid! thankyou so very much!
I’m pleased you liked it.
Thanks. I've always thought that dragons might be associated with rivers particularly. The long, meandering shape of a river is just too suggestive to pass up. Also, early hominins might well have viewed snakes as baby dragons who hadn't got their wings yet. They would've noticed that tadpoles grow legs, and that caterpillars get wings. It wouldn't take much imagination. Much later peoples (right up to today!) have certainly thought crazier things! One could easily speculate that killing the 'babies' would ruin the nest and run the 'dragon' away. Of course, it would be fiendishly difficult to back up such ideas, and impossible to prove. As to the cave drawing, I notice the snake is on its back, and is placed below the person (with whom the horses are level), and the buffalo are also upside down, but in the 'sky'. Hmmm... tavi.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It is an interesting image, and can be interpreted in different ways, but I have tried my best to put context around it based on myth, and the most probably version of myth that they may have known.
@@Crecganford I agree fully, of course. Like any science, the best we can hope for is to get as close as the evidence allows. Short of inventing time travel, there are just some things about history we'll never know for certain. Consensus may not be what the average person thinks of when it comes to science, but sometimes it's about all we've got. Even math needs it. tavi.
I cannot help but see the Indo-European dragon-slaying myth partially play out here: Two clay cattle represent the animals stolen by the dragon. Two headless snakes would be the heads of the dragon which were killed by Trito. There would also be a third snake, let loose into the depths of the cave (explaining it's absence), representing the last head of the fleeing dragon Ngwhi. At the end of the ritual, the source of water would be safe to drink for the tribe, and their animals would be free from harm.
except it was 2 snakes in 2 separate caves ... 1 per cave so 2 different stories
@@ottodidakt3069 that's not what I gleaned from the account; can you timestamp exactly where he says it?
When you hit a cave bear hard enough to break the skull, you have just earned the next level of man card.
Doubly so if you were in the cave with it when it happened!
The symbol of the serpent in South American history and mythology is so prevalent that I know I do not need to explain much to express that fact. What I would like to mention though is the hundreds of decapitated heads that have been found throughout South America, in particular Peru. There was a group of people there that practiced cranial deformation. Some of the skulls seem to have been shaped intentionally to produce the elongated effect. Some of the skulls appear to have been born that way and exhibit anatomical features not found in homo sapiens. There was clearly an association between the serpent and this so called "elite" class of people. The fact that the remains are always found decapitated and now you show me evidence of snake decapitation rituals being performed it is more than coincidence in my opinion. Why this age old idea of "cutting the head off of the snake" has stuck with us for so long. Great channel by the way.
I might not be interested in all your content but i do enjoy listening to relaxing and soothing way of relating the information your putting out. 😉 Thanks
Thank you.
Perhaps this is a case of sympathetic magic. Another thought is that it's more esoteric and that the cave represents the self and the dragon (snake) represents what must be overcome in order to have access to the water (life). As in Alchemy, Nigredo is the cutting off of the Raven's head (Caput Corvi). Interesting thoughts none the less. Thank you.
Thoughts:
1- Yellow rat tailed snakes live in caves, and since there were rivers associated with he caves, this opens it up to aquatic snakes who hang out in flooded caves, as anyone in Texas might know.
2- The snake might have been killed in a boring old fight. Claiming the lack of broken bones means the snake wasn't attacked means nothing. _The snake had it's head cut off._ So clearly, it was attacked. There's no difference if you cut off a snake in a fight or in a ritual from the snake's perspective. He's not going to lie still because you tell him it's a tradition.
Most likely story of the snakes: The snake was in the cave, and the people were working in it. They saw the snake, and killed it. The fact that it's 500 feet from the entrance means it's annoying to take the body out, so if you were working in the cave for say, 4 days, you may take the snake's body out the first 3 days, as likely there were more than one snake, but if you're wrapping up, and another last snake comes too close, chop it and go. leave the body.
You see headless snakes in barns and outbuildings like this all the time man. I feel you spent too much time in the library and not enough outside in the field.
I would absolutely love to see you and Aaron Ra sit down and have a discussion on these old texts. You really seem to have studied your ancient writings closely. And I think it would be a interesting conversation. Thank you for all the great info! Love the channel!
I've watched a couple of his videos, although I'm not sure if we are a natural fit as he seems very focused on the Abrahamic religion, but I can reach out to him.
@@Crecganford he's not a religious man but he definitely knows his religious text. And if you ask me it's rare even within the religious circles to find somebody who's actually studied the text. Even if you're not a religious person there's a very interesting history in there that's worth checking out.
@@Crecganford it would definitely be a fun video to hear the different opinions on different ways people live back then and everything. If it ever happens make sure you tag me LOL but hopefully I'll see it, I like watching your channel anyways so I figure I would know it was happening.
I enjoy you videos very much, and have been trying to catch up with them all. I am not there yet, and maybe you have addressed this before, but what is the significance of the name of this excellent channel? Is it a favorite battle of yours?
Hello, and thank you for watching my content and subscribing. And so Crecgcanford, meaning a ford over a creek, is the name of a place where a battle took place in 475/6CE and is known today as Crayford, the ford of the River Cray. And its significance is that it is where I lived throughout my childhood, and it has so much history it is a very interesting place to be. I hope that all makes sense?
over 3.9k people here that like either drinking tea or dragonslaying
@Crecganford, in the warrior horse section, what is the time period for the myths?
Thank you.
These myths would date between 30k and 1k, and then probability determines the likelihood of them being told at the time and locale. This information is detailed within the research itself to which I link the main paper to in this videos description.
Sorry to post something of a digression here, but it is tied to the subject of different names and interpretations of the same manifestations, be they creatures such as dragons, or divine beings such as Yemo, the lord of the underworld, known as Yama in the eastern tradition, and Enma in Japan, which you have already covered in great depth. In Japan, the Boddhisatva Jizo is more widely known through Asia as Kṣitigarbha, the patron of travellers and children. Now, his job description is very, very similar to that of Saint Christopher, AND rivers are a key part of their legend, too. Now, try as I might, I can't find anyone online who claims they are connected, beyond their job descriptions, but I'm sensing something more - to me, even the consonant sounds of the names "Chrisopher" and "Kṣitigarbha" hint at a common root. Am I completely barking madly up the wrong tree, or maybe, just maybe, like Yemo and Yama, are they both pointing towards a common, primordial Indo-European root?
That is a great question, and if we consider the Abrahamic, and in fact other religions too, made demons and angels out of other gods, then there maybe a link. It is something I haven’t ever deeply investigated, but it sounds like an interesting area to invest some time. Thank you again for sharing your thoughts. It is very interesting.
Fascinating presentation! When I was young many people said that snakes were wet and slimy even though of course they are dry. I assume this maybe from earlier associations with water. Mark Bradley hypothesises that the serpents described as blue or "caeruleus" in colour is so because of the serpents' movements like water and its association with the sea. There seems to be a lot of serpent / water symbolism as you state; I assume from the snakes' movements, shape etc. Also perhaps confusion with eels which certainly live in rivers. One thing that I wondered about the horses is whether they were perhaps also symbolic of water or rainfall because of their fast running and hammering hooves? This could later be reincarnated in myths about cows trapped in caves such as in Indian myth and also Greek myth?
The horse link is very interesting, and I would assume it is primarily that horses gathered around water holes, and so humans so that as meaning the water hole was safe. Although I have no firm evidence of this, but like most things, I am sure there are a number of reasons at play.
@@Crecganford Yes, I would totally agree there would be a number of reasons and I think that is one of the most fascinating aspects of symbolism.
@@jonstfrancis hello :) EastEuropean here. We have several kinds of water snakes which reside mainly in water, my grandparents which led a very humble agricultural life always warned us to be careful around ponds because snakes are amazing in disguising and can be hardly seen in even just a few centimeters of water.
Me being a complete idiot catched my first snake at around 10 years, had the perfect Y-shaped stick to secure the head and also the snake was very small around 30 40 cm. I brought it to my granma and before i can ask if we can keep it as pet, she grabbed the shovel and sliced her in a few sushi pieces in seconds.
@@pt7181 Poor snake! That's interesting you have snakes like that. In western Europe we do have a snake Natrix natrix that hunts frogs and can swim. So yes it does seem snakes would have been seen in water.
Hey, with that art of the supine snake over the river, with the man and the horses, you COULD interpet the underside of the front horse's neck as ALSO forming the outline of a second snake head. Sort of like two faces close to each other looking like a goblet.
I'm so glad I found your channel. When you mentioned the cup of tea I was actually dunking a Rich Tea biscuit in me cuppa !!
A fine choice, thank you for watching.
the story with the imposter that marries someone else while the hero is away to slay the dragon reminds me a lot like oddyseus myth. where he and his men are captured by the cyclops which trick and blind with a spear before they return home.
Yes, there is some commonality here, and I will talk about this more in the future. I am just pulling together a significant amount of research right now to help explain this.
What was the species of the snake found in the cave?
One species was a grass snake, that is the one I show a picture of, the other I couldn't find more information on other than it was a particularly long snake.
Can you talk about more iconography, archeology, symbolism....like the sun disk, etc.?
I can talk about these a little, my education is in mythology, and literature, as opposed to archaeology. But where it is appropriate I will do my best.
@@Crecganford cool! I Just think the sun disk is a fascinating symbol throughout multiple different cultures
I always wonder if ancient peoples came across dinosaur fossils and that helped inspire dragon myths.
I think there may have been some influence there, even if it wasn't the cause of the story, it probably inspired its continued dispersal.
Very good video, full of interesting things about our past. 👍 I've seen first hand what a horse that hates snakes can do, it's not pretty or finished until snake pulp is properly created. Horses in general can be amazingly vicious fighters and become a whole different beast when doing so. Which makes me all the more amazed that we can ride them and that they can actually love you and will fight for you.
Thank you for watching, and for taking the time to comment. It is appreciated.
@@Crecganford The seven sisters video was also very good and interesting. Living in "big sky country" AKA Montana, the sky/stars are amazing here. Appreciate the your reply here, you got another sub. 👍
The idea of a multiheaded snake carving out rivers is intriguing. Maybe they thought by cutting off the head, they could prevent the fresh water from reaching the sea where it becomes undrinkable.
That is an interesting thought, I shall check if there is a pattern in the motif distribution that matches coastal regions. Thank you.
Great video. I cannot concur with the claim that ritual does not make myth. They are definitely linked, I agree, but I think the influence goes both ways.
That’s fair enough, and i will try and explain this thought more in the future. Thank you watching, and for taking the time to comment.
if there was no damage to the skeleton that suggests the behading was clean...which inturn suggests a sharp swordlike instrument was used. Also consider the difficulty of clean beheading a snake...this was a highly skilled ritual which most modern people could never perform
These findings like your orien-star video rewrite human history suggesting human civilization was highly skilled upto 20,000 years ago, capable of making swords etc
//dragon is killed to create the world//
or the snake/dragon represents "satan" and is beheaded as a sin-purification process. The modern-era may have replaced this ritual with baptism, holy communion etc
A question then arises: WHY is satan symbolized by dragons/snakes etc
Absolument passionnant !
Mind-boggling, thx! Btw, heard somewhere that snakes are teachers, is that later, or perhaps much later?
I like drinking tea, though I have not slain any dragons...
..yet.
Thank you for your interpretation of these profound stories, you are awakening something that I had foolishly assumed was forgotten. May you and your channel live forever.
Thank you for your kind words… and if you go through life without the need to slay a dragon, then I would say you have had a good and lucky life.
@@Crecganford I didn't say I haven't needed to slay any. I've generally ignored their existence and allowed them to get stronger.
I'm going to need a bigger axe.
Thanks for helping me choose one.
Excellent! Very interesting as always 👌
Thank you for your kind words.
God, how I love this channel.
Thank you!
There are innumerable examples of snakes living in and around caves. Even very deeply within.
The thing that sets this apart is its condition and the missing head.
What a wonderful teacher!
Thank you so much.
Symbology is even more amazing when it makes sense.
Interesting to see how dragon myths have followed humans throughout our history and are still present today.
It is probably one of oldest motifs we know of in mythology.
@@Crecganfordhey... So the reason
the dragon/ snake is so prevalent across all of human existence is because that is what we are. All indigenous cultures have used large quantities of Psychedelic plant medicine and at high enough doses you arrive a one eternal truth . Namely " The Cosmic Serpent". .. these are not myths or hallucinations.
All of reality is giant cosmic snake. An intertwining of the black and the rainbow snake. It is what each of us is inside. We are the cosmic snake inhabiting a human form. Its where every religion has its roots and it's why every culture refers to snakes/ serpents/ dragons in their origin story. It's why north american indians have serpent mounds. It's why the Chinese have their dragons it's why the Greeks have the asclepius staff. Its why the egyptian headdress has the cobra coming out of forehead at the 3rd eye. It's why all of hindu religion is so reverent of snakes. It really is every where. From australian first Nations people to indigenous tribes in soth America to Celtic traditions in Ireland. Its why the snake in the garden of eden story is the bringer of knowledge. I could go on and on. Hope this is something you're open to and find interesting.