Fighting Dragons: A Comparative Mythology

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  • Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
  • Dragons are everywhere in mythology, including religious mythology. In this video we will look at the main dragon myth that circulates around the largest religions, dragon stories such as Saint George and the Dragon, and then compare two of the most well known serpents, by looking at the Rig Veda and Enuma Elis, Tiamat and Vrtra, to see what would happen if they fought each other.
    If you want to support my research and see behind the scenes work, watch my videos early, and other insights then please become a *Patreon*: / crecganford
    References:
    Ancient Near Eastern Texts relating to the Old Testament, Edited by James B. Pritchard, Akkadin Myths and Epics, translated by E.A.Spicer
    Landsberger, B. “The Fifth Tablet of Enuma Eliš.” Journal of Near Eastern Studies 20, no. 3 (July 1961): 154-79. doi.org/10.1086/371634.
    Lahari, Ajoy Kumar. Vediv Vrta. Motilal Banarsidass, Dehli. 1984.
    Lincoln, Bruce. “The Indo-European Cattle-Raiding Myth.” History of Religions 16, no. 1 (August 1976): 42-65. doi.org/10.1086/462755.
    Use of maps from indo-european.eu/ is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
    And for those who read this, I had to put a picture of Anzu up instead of Tiamat, as there are no decent pictures I could use, and you all keep telling me to put more pictures in my videos. It is sometimes really hard to do this accurately when discussing pre-history and so you sometimes have to have some editorial leeway. Thanks, Jon
    Chapters
    ===========================
    0:00 Introduction
    1:43 St George and the Dragon
    3:06 Cattle Raiding
    5:49 Rescuing a Princess
    8:36 Comparing Two Mythological Dragons
    11:14 Vrtra
    13:35 Tiamat
    16:04 Tiamat vs Vrtra
    17:03 Water Serpents
    17:47 Extinguishing Life
    19:03 The Head of the Dragons
    19:44 The Gods are Afraid
    20:30 Intoxicating Drinks
    21:44 The Beautiful Hero
    23:09 The Hero is King of the Gods
    23:48 The Hero represents Truth
    24:19 Incredible Weapons
    25:21 Using the Wind
    26:13 Chariots
    26:58 The Evil Dragon
    27:28 Gods of Vegetation
    29:07 Gods of War
    30:44 Crushing the Head of the Enemy
    30:56 The Creation of Heaven and Earth
    31:29 The Truth about Tiamat and Vrtra
    32:41 The Origin of this Myth
    33:31 How the Myth spread

Комментарии • 641

  • @Crecganford
    @Crecganford  2 года назад +163

    Are there any dragons you would like to know about? Jörmungandr? Hydra? Drakōn? Or would you like to know the oldest story of all about them?

    • @nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115
      @nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115 2 года назад +26

      All of them. Forgetting not the esoteric/symbolic meaning behind them, s'il vous plais.

    • @laurenjones3184
      @laurenjones3184 2 года назад +11

      I’d love to know more about when dragons stared guarding wisdom. The hymn of the pearl in acts of Thomas is great. The dragon guards a pearl. Id also love to know more about the constellation Draco and where, and how early it shows up in myth. Do serpent on mountain, tree or stick myths relate to Draco and the pole axis and ecliptic?

    • @ravensthatflywiththenightm7319
      @ravensthatflywiththenightm7319 2 года назад +2

      Hydra and Unk-Cekula, please.

    • @emilbordon1329
      @emilbordon1329 2 года назад +11

      Puff?

    • @jgr7487
      @jgr7487 2 года назад +6

      the oldest story seams to be the best one to understand all, as it's basal

  • @Kaiofm
    @Kaiofm 2 года назад +86

    Here in Brazil we have the myth of Boiuna or the Great Serpent. The tales diverge a bit between regions but the gist of it goes like this:
    There once was this giant serpent called Boiuna which came from the depths of the ocean; its body was so massive that wherever it went, rivers were formed in the wake of its body and its rage caused storms and floods. Boiuna also spawned many other beings, specially animals and other monsters that terrorized humanity.
    Eventually, Boiuna gave birth to a set of giant serpent twins. It became very tired and went to a deep slumber somewhere very deep.
    The twins had opposite natures, one was good and liked mankind and the other was evil and wanted to destroy it. The good twin eventually got fed up and killed his evil sister (there is no consensus on what he did with the body of the evil sister). However, the good twin still set fear on human hearts because it was still a massive serpent.
    One day a powerful warrior challenged the good twin to a duel, the good twin which was sad and alone accepted because he wanted to die. The warrior defeated the good twin, made it drink cattle’s milk and bleed, that, for some reason, made the good twin able to become a man and leave its serpent form behind. Some say the warrior became the first leader of man and some say it is the good twin.
    Boiuna still sleeps in the depths (of the ocean, earth or the amazon river) and, when the world comes to an end, it will wake up again and wreck havoc and destroy everything.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +24

      Thank you for watching and sharing, that was very interesting. I do like reading these stories.

    • @animebanger6662
      @animebanger6662 Год назад +1

      boitata?

    • @Kaiofm
      @Kaiofm Год назад +4

      ​@@animebanger6662 not sure... the prefix boi means snake for sure; however I'm not sure if the two myths are related directly
      Boitata is usually represented as a fire snake/dragon that protects the florests

    • @JM-The_Curious
      @JM-The_Curious 11 месяцев назад +2

      That story really helps me understand these myths better. So the path of the river is basically serpentine, a word we still use today in the English language. Therefore the great serpent made the tracks that filled with water, hence we have rivers. Then we have great storms in which there is mighty thunder, and flashes of light, and in this form perhaps the serpent is more like we'd think of as a dragon, roaring and breathing fire. In the wake of the flooding from the storm comes fertility to the land so that parched land becomes verdant and large watering holes where animals would gather for good hunting, therefore the good aspect of bringing water and fertility to the land, but also in the dragon form what can be a wrathful, angry proto storm god.which carries many of the same weapons like lightning bolts that are used like arrows.

  • @ggilleland8903
    @ggilleland8903 2 года назад +14

    Instant watch! Always worth stopping and having a look!!

  • @peterkelley6344
    @peterkelley6344 2 года назад +25

    I am always amazed at how well you can trace dates and time periods for these mythologies. I am just super pleased with the research you've doing documenting human history

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Thank you for your kinds words.

    • @ayutism
      @ayutism Год назад

      @@Crecganford hey! Could you make a video reconstructing the original flood myth like you reconstructed the oldest creation myth?

  • @jytte-hilden
    @jytte-hilden 2 года назад +28

    Hey Crec.
    Speaking of the seasonal aspect of the serpent myths, here's a renewal story you may be unaware of. There is a late Scandinavian peasants myth that describes how a Linn-orm kept people from going to church. The people then had to raise a bull calf on sweet milk and fine bread, until it was strong enough to fight the Linnorm. The bulll killed the Linn-orm, thus saving the people, but died from the poison it spewed. Notice the similarity with Thor's death during Ragnarok, and the motif of a bull being sacrificed to defeat the serpent on his famous fishing trip (which also has seasonal motifs).

  • @fredazcarate4818
    @fredazcarate4818 2 года назад +8

    Brilliant lecture on the myth of the dragon both in Proto-Indo-European and Mesopotamian mythology. Kudos!

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Thank you

    • @senor2930
      @senor2930 Год назад

      I do think that PIE & mesopotamian didn't exist in vaccum & were more interconnected than we think.

  • @wendyrobison1973
    @wendyrobison1973 Год назад +3

    Please go deeper into dragon stories. These intrigue me so much!

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  Год назад +2

      I've made a few more since this one, I hope you watch them and like them as well.

  • @Soarcio
    @Soarcio 2 года назад +13

    Just discovered this channel and I'm blown away about the level of dedication and research it must've took to come up the answers to origins of mythology, indo-european ancient mythology and mythical creatures, we could've just thrown out of our minds for simply just "fiction" but you found what things could actually suggest. Good work mate, and keep it up.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Thank you for your kind words.

  • @GoldenEmperor5Manifest
    @GoldenEmperor5Manifest 2 года назад +5

    This is something I am searching for very intently myself and have been for a while. I know that ancient Chinese cultures have this myth many thousands of years ago as well. Some claim the myths exist in the ancient Americas also. It's an interesting topic.

  • @js1423
    @js1423 2 года назад +8

    Ninurta, the Mesopotamian predecessor to Marduk, was also known to slay some dragons or dragon-like beings: Anzû, the thunderbird who stole the tablet of destinies, Azag, a demon who might be a storm-dragon, as well as the horned serpents Bašmu, Mušsagimin, Ušumgallu and Mušmaḫḫū, with the latter four being mentioned in the poem Angim which is also known as "The Return of Ninurta to Nippur".
    Ninurta was also a god of war, vegetation and storms, and carried a war-mace named Sharur. I think he might be the oldest known storm-god.

  • @pendragon2012
    @pendragon2012 2 года назад +12

    Very interesting! I would love a video on Jormungandr! Or the Chinese dragon myths But I love dragons so any stories you want to share would be amazing!

  • @Emymagdalena
    @Emymagdalena 5 месяцев назад +1

    I’m obsessed with this

  • @absintheminded8466
    @absintheminded8466 2 года назад +1

    I'm going to show my mom this, she loves dragons and history channels.

  • @gregvondare
    @gregvondare 2 года назад +17

    Great video, Jon. I've often thought that ancient, giant crocodiles were the source of dragon myths (for example, St. George), since crocs will take cattle which have come to drink at a river's edge. And I've seen videos of crocs breathing out in the chilly early morning which resulted in a steamy exhalation that could easily be amplified into breathing smoke and fire. However, your video has caused me to think that perhaps some ancient storyteller stood on a high place and saw the "serpentine" course of a river and conflated the water with an actual snake - a python or something similar. As ever, your excellent work is satisfying food for thought.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +3

      Thank you, and I will do a video on at George and his dragon, as it is quite fascinating.

    • @gregvondare
      @gregvondare 2 года назад +1

      @@Crecganford : Great; I welcome that. I'd like to know more about Welsh dragons too.

    • @jytte-hilden
      @jytte-hilden 2 года назад +1

      The water monster Perseus fought to save Andromeda was in Ethiopia, so possibly a crocodile. Arjuna and Hanuman from the Maharabta also both defeated crocodiles to rescue fair maidens. The stories could possibly be related to the abolishment of human sacrifice by natural predator.

    • @gregvondare
      @gregvondare 2 года назад +1

      @@jytte-hilden Well said. I love playing tennis with someone who swings a mean racquet. Not so sure about the flying part of dragon lore. Unless the very earliest humans with language had some overlap with a remote colony of pterosaurs. Unlikely, but just possible. On the other hand, "composite" beasts or chimera were widespread in the IE mythos, so that may account for it.

    • @bodnica
      @bodnica 2 года назад +3

      I thought this myth generated from various dinosaurs bones found thousands of years ago

  • @yayaetc7334
    @yayaetc7334 2 года назад +1

    When you say "grab a cup of tea"... I grab a cup of coffee, but still very much enjoy your lecture.. Thank you !

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      That is still a fine beverage

  • @robertgebruers9519
    @robertgebruers9519 2 года назад +1

    Since really getting into mythology of all kinds in my teens, I’ve pretty much waited my whole adult life for this great RUclips channel.

  • @rafaeldiromano2085
    @rafaeldiromano2085 2 года назад +3

    I've been looking forward to this one! Love the video, thanks for the great explanation as always. Thank you for uploading great stories like these and spreading the knowledge

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      And thank you for your kind words, and for watching.

  • @tbrooks529
    @tbrooks529 2 года назад +39

    Interesting and informative video! As always. This made me wonder about the origin of dragon myths. What could have caused such a story to arise? The fact that one dragon was salt water and the other fresh, I wonder if the flooding of the lake that came to be known as the Black Sea by the Mediterranean sea has anything to do with the origins. I imagine that flood would have caused humans to create a bunch of interesting stories and myths. Imagine living by a fresh water lake and then over the course of several weeks it is flooded, many villages are complete destroyed, many die, and then there is no fresh water. If I am alive at that time I suppose an animal like a dragon (or two) would be capable of explaining the horror that occurred.
    Anyway, this video was great! Thank you.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +7

      Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment. I will talk about the origin of the dragon myth in a month or two, so watch this space :)

    • @James-sk4db
      @James-sk4db 2 года назад +3

      I always thought of those giant Komodo dragons that were big enough to swallow a man whole in Australia from 50,000 years ago could be the origin.
      There’s a theory that the slash and burn that the aborigines used in AUS was directly to clear them out.

  • @dianarising7703
    @dianarising7703 2 года назад +4

    This is a wonderful video. It is so interesting to me how the studies of myths and linguistics can help to understand the prehistoric migrations and interactions between peoples. I really love the maps, it really helps me visualize and understand the interactions. Thank you so much.

  • @reesetorwad8346
    @reesetorwad8346 Год назад +1

    28:52 I was going to give you some guff about the word "corn," but then I read the Wiki article about maize and corrected myself. Fascinating vid, sir. 👍

  • @paulinaderegowska4757
    @paulinaderegowska4757 2 года назад +5

    I was once again reminded of our Vedic legacy. When you started talking about Indra and Vrtra I immediately thought of the Polish/Slavic God of storm and war, Perun. He is also believed to have slain a dragon who had been keeping water somewhere in the clouds, thus freeing the water and causing rain.
    I think it's beautiful how everything is connected.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +2

      Those myths are absolutely connected, and it fascinates me too.

    • @redwaldcuthberting7195
      @redwaldcuthberting7195 2 года назад

      Vedic legacy? The myths aren't from Sanskrit but share a common origin in the Eurasian Steppe peoples.

    • @JDP1699
      @JDP1699 2 года назад +2

      @@redwaldcuthberting7195 really? Can you elaborate?

    • @justarandomguyontheinterne5911
      @justarandomguyontheinterne5911 2 года назад +2

      @@redwaldcuthberting7195 Quite ironic how Vrtra has been called an asura not a dragon

    • @pritsingh9766
      @pritsingh9766 Год назад +1

      @@redwaldcuthberting7195 1st of all your European copied stories might be myth ,rig veda isn't. And anything in rig veda isn't related to Europe ,so what's written in the vedas is vedic legacy only and thus sanskrit.

  • @midori4352
    @midori4352 2 года назад +1

    Beautiful job explaining the maps! I love your channel, and it is honestly something I look forward to every time I get your notifications!

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Thank you for watching them and your kind words.

  • @Manofthewoods.
    @Manofthewoods. 2 года назад +1

    I've been patiently awaiting this video! Amazing video per usual!

  • @timgilkes1435
    @timgilkes1435 2 года назад +6

    I only found your channel a few weeks ago and since then have been binging your videos, they are great and very informative. I wanted to thank you as they have given me a renewed love for history. After studying it at A level many years ago my interests slipped into fantasy, which in a way these old tales and myths you describe link with, so has brought me full circle. I would love to know the oldest origins of the dragon myth, they make up a big part of fantasy so seeing if the tales written now have any similarity to the originals would be very interesting.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Thank you for watching, and your kind words. I’m currently translating a paper that discusses the earliest serpent myth, and I hope to have made a video about this within a month. And so I hope you subscribe and come back to watch it.

  • @shivnu
    @shivnu 2 года назад +2

    Excited to see this one, Jon! A fun way to begin my Saturday!

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      And thank you for watching it :)

  • @jonasdornelles7094
    @jonasdornelles7094 2 года назад +1

    Such amazing content! Thank you so much for the effort to make this careful analisys. I love the final timeline. Congratulations for the channel, long live to Crecganford!

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      Thank you for watching, and your kind words.

  • @jochemlambers
    @jochemlambers 2 года назад +1

    You're always asking the right questions, love this video!

  • @shokizm1
    @shokizm1 2 года назад +1

    i really like this style of videos - i actually feel like i've learnt something these past couple of weeks of watching!
    Thank you!

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Thank you for watching, and your kind words.

  • @leonbrown7911
    @leonbrown7911 2 года назад +1

    Absolute stellar work, I catch myself binging too often without giving any accolades - righteous work your doing, thank you a tonne for the effort/ content!

    • @leonbrown7911
      @leonbrown7911 2 года назад +1

      Sorry, this side note/query I'm not sure who best to ask:
      Since the Ramakien the Thai epic is a rendition of that of the Ramayana - would that then discount it, and it's discrepancies as it is third hand? (at best!)
      Just curious, because outside the country - at least myself, haven't come across many mentions/passing of the vers.
      Thanks again!

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      I'm not familiar with that material enough to say discount it. There can be motifs and ideas within those sources that are remnants of earlier mythology.

    • @leonbrown7911
      @leonbrown7911 2 года назад

      Thank you for the reply!

  • @kk-ei5zz
    @kk-ei5zz 2 года назад +1

    These videos are so insightful and your narration is really quite calming

  • @jashansingh4999
    @jashansingh4999 2 года назад +2

    Wow i was waiting for this video great work

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      Thank you, I appreciate your kind words

  • @liquidconstellations
    @liquidconstellations 2 года назад +1

    Bravo! Thoroughly enjoyable and deeply satisfying! Thank you for the detailed work and research you brought forth and communicated so brilliantly. But the suspenseful ending! Ugh! 😂 I will be definitely be awaiting the next installment eagerly!

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Thank you for watching and your kind words... the next part will probably be in a month or so.

  • @thedukeofchutney468
    @thedukeofchutney468 2 года назад +1

    I love your videos man! Keep up the good content!

  • @tomkelly8827
    @tomkelly8827 Год назад +2

    I have always thought that the story of Marduk and Tiamat was about planets colliding, resulting in the creation of our current position of earth, its tilt and spin as well as our unusually large moon and also the debris that was left behind from the planets colliding between Mars and Jupiter. Tiamat was a planet out there but was smashed to pieces by Niburu's moon (Marduk). Sitchin's books had an effect on my perception of this story.

  • @robpatterson3133
    @robpatterson3133 2 года назад +4

    I am absolutely glad I found this channel I'm already subscribed but now I'm jaw dropped at the level of research and explanation you put into reference and cross references to different word uses and there multiple uses in single use .. it's great 😃👍 you sir do great work

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      Thank you so much for your kind words.

    • @robpatterson3133
      @robpatterson3133 2 года назад

      @@Crecganford no problem. You have earned it 👍 I love history and pre history and you deliver 👌

  • @forodinssake9570
    @forodinssake9570 2 года назад +4

    As always fascinating video! Something that came to my mind is Tlatecuhtli from Nahua mythos, it was a earth monster killed by the gods and shaped into the world, it also supposedly bit off Tezcatlipoca's foot, i feel like we can see here references for both dragons like Tiamat and even Ymir and Indo European creation myth, weather this is a coincidence or something greater is left to further research

  • @jgr7487
    @jgr7487 2 года назад +2

    I'm still waiting for a vid in which "but where did they come, & where dod they go" will be ended with "where did he come from, Cotton-eye Joe".
    that said, I absolutely love this channel.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      I did think that when I said it! haha.

  • @readingforwisdom7037
    @readingforwisdom7037 2 года назад +1

    Thanks Jon, just the storytelling I needed tonight. Appreciate your perspectives

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      And thank you for watching

  • @hengistcane3120
    @hengistcane3120 2 года назад +1

    Finally got round to watching it.another excellent informative video.much respect.
    BTW many thanks for saying a few words at our gathering last Saturday.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      Thank you for supporting the channel Hengist, and it was a real pleasure meeting you all.

    • @hengistcane3120
      @hengistcane3120 2 года назад

      @@Crecganford likewise my friend.always recommend this channel your hard work speaks for itself.

  • @laurenjones3184
    @laurenjones3184 2 года назад +4

    Yay! I’ve been looking forward to this one. Watching straight away. 🙂 I’ve always liked The Jabberwocky by Lewis Carrol. Not explicitly a dragon but I feel like it tells all of these stories with very few actual words . Thanks for your work and research 🙂.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Thank you for watching, and your kind words. They are appreciated :)

  • @mrpocock
    @mrpocock 2 года назад +1

    Thank you so much for doing this. Really enjoyed it.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      And thank you for watching it

  • @grandymommy4531
    @grandymommy4531 2 года назад +1

    Great video. I'm so glad you have captions. Even though we both speak English our pronunciation is not quite the same and the captions help me to more fully follow your narrative. I'm a long way away from where you are and I'm thankful you are on you-tube, otherwise I would have never known about you and your fascinating work.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Thank you for watching, and for your feedback. I do spend a lot of time making sure my captions are correct meaning you don't have to rely on the RUclips generated ones.

  • @22hannit
    @22hannit 2 года назад +1

    So nice to see someone speak about the myth stories and explain how it relates to the migrations of people and how cultures changed so did these stories. Reminding everyone that we all share a similar ancestry and history as humans, regardless of current religion or culture.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Exactly! Being a human today means you are the sum of a rich and varied past.

  • @littlebird619
    @littlebird619 2 года назад +3

    I can't believe the timing of this video! I really look forward to the dragon myth, as my daughter was just told that Europeans have no culture, and they stole the Dragon from Asia...

    • @pritsingh9766
      @pritsingh9766 Год назад

      Yes ofcourse, Europeans have a culture and that's Christianity. So mate, you better stick to it .You Europeans have already done enough damage to our holy symbol and terms like swstika and Arya .
      And your daughter is right, because India, persia and Mesopotamia are/were in Asia only .Taking rig vedic lores and portraying them as European won't change the truth.

    • @goofsama
      @goofsama 9 месяцев назад

      @@pritsingh9766 pointing the finger at other cultures historical failings without internalizing your own is how you remain in your ignorant headspace. What a disgusting thing to say.

  • @mifune423
    @mifune423 2 года назад +1

    He keeps killing it with every video!

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Thank you so much for your support and kinds words. They are very much appreciated.

  • @eardwulf785
    @eardwulf785 2 года назад +2

    Been looking forward to this one

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      I hope you enjoyed it

    • @eardwulf785
      @eardwulf785 2 года назад

      @@Crecganford
      I certainly did thankyou. Always been intrigued by how the dragons were historically present in many different western cultures but also in Ancient China when, I assume there was little to none interactions?
      I remember reading somewhere that fire breathing dragons could have been interpreted from the tongue flicking of snakes and probably Comodo dragons or monitor lizards?

  • @thefisherking78
    @thefisherking78 2 года назад +1

    Your work is so good! Thank you!

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Thank you for your kind words, they are appreciated.

  • @bennyvangelder7624
    @bennyvangelder7624 2 года назад +1

    Great video Jon!

  • @helios7170
    @helios7170 Год назад +1

    Wonderful videos! Thank you

  • @stevenwilliams1805
    @stevenwilliams1805 2 года назад +1

    Fascinating, you have a new subscriber. 🖖

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      Thank you so much for watching and subscribing. It is appreciated.

  • @joeywall4657
    @joeywall4657 2 года назад +1

    What a wonderful way to start my weekend :-) thank you for sharing your work with us.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      Thank you for your kind words, and for watching. That makes my weekend start well too.

    • @joeywall4657
      @joeywall4657 2 года назад

      @@Crecganford I just recently discovered your channel and I'm completely sucked in. I used to feel like the far ancient world was so far removed from us that it was effectively an alien world. But you talk about these things that are still so pervasive in our culture and worldview. They are still alive and relevant, even though they are as much as 10,000 years removed. It really does wake something up inside of me.

  • @franzlimit
    @franzlimit 2 года назад +2

    I can't believe I found out about your channel about a week ago. Thank you a lot for the work you have to put into these videos. Even if you are very learned in this subject (which you obviously are) it must be a lot of research to make those videos.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Thank you for watching, and I love to learn and to teach, so all I am doing in teaching what I loved to learn myself.

  • @eddydejagere3411
    @eddydejagere3411 2 года назад +2

    Thank you. dragons are everywhere.

  • @samueldegrandi6603
    @samueldegrandi6603 2 года назад +1

    probably the only channel i don't find it annoying to ask for likes mid video lol
    you really deserve more algorithm attention
    love your videos

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      Thank you, I do try to ask in a more entertaining way.

  • @johnmoir2528
    @johnmoir2528 2 года назад +1

    Absolutely love your work, a fantastic way to spend a wet and stormy night in Perth (Western Australia).

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      Hello to you in Australia, and thank you for watching.

  • @francesbell9465
    @francesbell9465 Год назад +1

    Thank you for your videos, I have learned so much and really appreciate you sharing your expertise.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  Год назад +1

      And thank you for watching them, and for taking the time to leave a comment. It is appreciated.

  • @DamienZshadow
    @DamienZshadow 2 года назад +1

    I always learn so much and then check to see if it must be ending soon only to see that I am only half way through! Wow, how do you manage to unpack so much knowledge and wisdom on these tropes of mythology and storytelling?!

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      Thank you, that is exactly my aim, to tell you all as much as I can

  • @Embassy_of_Jupiter
    @Embassy_of_Jupiter 2 года назад +1

    I have watched way to much RUclips for way too long.
    Quality like this gets rewarded, I know you'll get millions of subscribers. I've seen it a million times and it was obvious to me when I watched your first video.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Thank you for your kind words.

  • @Baliken100
    @Baliken100 2 года назад +1

    very awesome dude

  • @OffRampTourist
    @OffRampTourist 2 года назад +1

    Another great video!
    You're color coded maps across time are so very helpful. When I see those I know my friends will want me to share for discussion.
    One friend is asking about where horse based cultures fit in this timeline of myth/language/culture dispersal. Is there another video I should share with him?

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      I haven't really touched on horses, but in short they took over from cattle once we worked out how to ride them.

  • @ThursonJames
    @ThursonJames 2 года назад +1

    Dude - this is way too interesting a topic to watch immediately. I need to wait until I put the kids to bed to I can really dig in. Thanks, Jon!

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Thanks Kevin, I hope your kids go to bed really early so you can watch it soon!

    • @ThursonJames
      @ThursonJames 2 года назад

      @@Crecganford I’ve watched it three times (so far). My first familiarity with the dragon motif is from Peterson talking about Dragons guarding Treasure, but that is from a psychological perspective. It’s nice to have different filters through which to consider the same information. Again, many thanks!

  • @yudisthram.ganeshadeva6065
    @yudisthram.ganeshadeva6065 2 года назад +3

    This is an interesting video. Primates are thought to have developed good close up eyesight to avoid snakes. What are snakes if not dragons without wings

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      They are, and when I eventually talk about the earliest of dragon myths we will see this.

  • @dantanner6631
    @dantanner6631 2 года назад +1

    Look forwar to this one 👍thanks for the content john! 🙌

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      And thank you for watching it

  • @doubleplusdanny
    @doubleplusdanny 2 года назад +1

    Great to thing wake up to here in the states. Thanks, Jon!

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Thank you for getting up early to watch this :)

  • @Emiialjds
    @Emiialjds Год назад +1

    very good video

  • @ethanstiles948
    @ethanstiles948 2 года назад +2

    Now I need a gritty action movie in the style of The Green Man based off of this story. I imagine Trito like John Wick but going after a dragon to save his cows

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      That would be a good movie... especially a John Wick/Trito hero, awesome stuff!

  • @DogWalkerBill
    @DogWalkerBill 2 года назад +7

    So many cultures have a serpent or dragon. The worm Ouroboros, a serpent eating it's own tail. The Feathered Serpent of the Aztecs, Maya & Olmecs, The Archaic Period of the Mayans dates to before 2000 BCE. On one hand, I am amazed at how you've shown certain myths, common to the Americas & Eurasia must go back 15,000 years! On the other hand, I still wonder if the "Great Worm/Dragon" myths aren't a result of seeing the Milky Way in the night sky. It does look like a giant scaly snake, winding across the sky. And disappearing into the horizon far away, which may be the sea, land or mountains (depending on your point of view.) Everybody all over the earth could look into the night sky and see the giant snake or dragon! All you need is a shaman to make up (or remember) a mythic story!

    • @forodinssake9570
      @forodinssake9570 2 года назад

      Dragon is an umbrella term for various creatures and deities, Serpents also aren't the most creative of mythological creation's, i think it's reasonable to assume at least some of these originated independently from one another

    • @SarahTheRebelOfficial
      @SarahTheRebelOfficial 2 года назад

      Dinosaur bones are my guess!

    • @forodinssake9570
      @forodinssake9570 2 года назад

      @@SarahTheRebelOfficial yee in some cases it could be the case but we shouldn't assume Al myths originate in fossils

  • @guardsmencadia1728
    @guardsmencadia1728 Год назад +1

    Not going to lie, I initially thought the dragon fightclub bit is to grab the attention of millennials raised on memes, but it had a point. Well done, sir. I personally adore some of the more modern interpretations of Tiamat and I am not talking about DnD... In some places she is regarded as the creator of the land and the sky, a sort of mother figure not just for the other gods but to the universe in more direct creation myth. It is an interesting contrast with the now classical European dragons=bad notion.
    Unfortunately, I lost the source that I read this in sadly. Makes me wonder though, if any of these legends and/or religions survived in remote areas in some way outside of museums and archeological finds.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  Год назад +1

      Thank you for watching, and for taking the time to comment. I did think the Fight Club analogy was most appropriate for the exact reason you state.

  • @kaushalsuvarna5156
    @kaushalsuvarna5156 Год назад +1

    Brilliant piece of detective history
    I had always wondered who the hell Vrtra was and what the hell Indra was doing fighting him and how that freed up waters

  • @js1423
    @js1423 2 года назад +1

    Great video overall! It to be a broken record, but I hope the interview with Ben Stanhope is still coming soon! There are so many interesting dragon/chaos/combat myth-stuff to compare and research!

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Yes, this is a video I wanted to do before I got to Ben. Now it's out I will move this forward as quickly as I can :)

    • @js1423
      @js1423 2 года назад

      @@Crecganford Awesome to hear! I'll hope it will be a fruitful discussion between the two of you!

  • @filipepinheiro8250
    @filipepinheiro8250 10 месяцев назад +1

    2:53 in Brazil there's this tradition that St George kills the dragon (in the present tense) on the moon
    There used to have even popular TV shows for kids that would have the characters go to the moon (because yk, kids like the moon) and meet st George there

  • @ravensthatflywiththenightm7319
    @ravensthatflywiththenightm7319 2 года назад +1

    Reminds me of one of my absolute favorite short stories - The Valley of the Worm, by Robert E. Howard.
    "I will tell you of Niord and the Worm. You have heard the tale before in many guises wherein the hero was named Tyr, or Perseus, or Siegfried, or Beowulf, or Saint George. But it was Niord who met the loathly demoniac thing that crawled hideously up from hell . . ."

  • @mdug7224
    @mdug7224 Год назад +1

    Thank you. Another great presentation on Indo-European myth.
    It also makes sense as to way many old river names mean 'dragon' or 'serpent'.

  • @dewilton7712
    @dewilton7712 Год назад +1

    Interesting in how the biblical firmament kept the idea of the holes in it to let the rain through.

  • @davepayne2024
    @davepayne2024 2 года назад +1

    Awesome 👏

  • @pericoel21
    @pericoel21 2 года назад +1

    Hi, sir! I just found this channel a few days ago, and I'm plowing through your entire catalog at a very fast pace!
    A few videos ago you said something that worried me, though. You told us that you try to read the comment section. This can be kinda toxic, I just don't want to loose a good and informed content creator because the negativity that you can find down here some times. My best recommendation is to have a friend read this comments and select the top ones which deserve an answer.
    Keep this level of quality, sir, and ☕☕☕!
    P.d.: tiamat is an important dragon god in Dungeons & Dragons. Capitalize on it, the algorythm should like it! Use Tiamat in the titles as much as you can hehe

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      Thank you for watching, and your kind words. And when this was a small channel, just a couple of months ago, reading comments was so enjoyable. But you're right, now there are some very undesirable comments, but I try not to let them affect me.

    • @pericoel21
      @pericoel21 2 года назад

      @@Crecganford 😁😁😁

  • @tdkokoszka
    @tdkokoszka 2 года назад +1

    Solid video, as usual. In my book, I actually have a lengthy discussion about this in Chapter 3. Whatever the origins of the Mesopotamian battle with Tiamat (and it could indeed go way back) I also reach the conclusion that some Indo-European influence had attached itself to the Near-Eastern dragon-slaying myths by the mid 2nd millennium B.C. In particular, we have evidence that the Indic warriors (Maryannu) already had a presence in Northern Mesopotamia by the 17th century B.C. and Anatolian influences from the west probably show up equally early in Syria (e.g. Luwians in Kizzuwatna).
    These two waves of IE influence from the east and west were near their peak when the Baal Cycle was written. In the west, you had the Hittite Empire, which was already one of the major powers in the region- and in the east you had the Mitanni kingdom, which was ruled my Indic or Indic-descended elites. In short, you can't really rule out IE influence by the time most of these myths were written down. But *especially* by the time of the Baal cycle, which was slightly later than the Enuma Elish.
    Personally, I would argue that the Baal Cycle is the most obviously IE-influenced of the Near Eastern dragon myths. It's apparent from the fact that Baal is a true Thunder God (unlike some other near-eastern dragon slayers like Marduk) and also from the fact that Lotan displays multiple heads. For the other Near-Eastern dragon-slaying narratives, I think the non-IE elements are still noticeable. That's my theory, in any case.

  • @jwalker9127
    @jwalker9127 2 года назад +1

    Thanks for this. I know this story so well and I could never connect it's roots to the story.

  • @ravensthatflywiththenightm7319
    @ravensthatflywiththenightm7319 2 года назад +1

    Looking forward to the Dragon Myth Origin video already!

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      It'll be a month or so, as I've a few translations to complete before my research is finished. But it won't be too long. Thanks for watching.

  • @renata_of_the_craft
    @renata_of_the_craft 2 года назад +1

    Thank you for this very informative video which I have enjoyed greatly. I also found a great deal of similarity of these myths to the creation myth of Germanic/Norse mythology: Ýmir, this proto-Jötunn being, being declared evil and killed, and 'it's' blood creating both a flood and the waters of the earth which was created from the body, whilst the skull, the other half of this creature formed the heavens/sky. Also then somehow this proto Ur-cow, Auðumbla, makes her magical appearance, linking in not just agriculture and animism but animal husbandry too. The surviving relatives, who didn't drown in the flood of Ýmir's blood, also declared largely evil, were often able to create monstrous offspring, gigantic wolves and dragon-like snakes, eight-legged horses, creatures which make our ancestors very likely fearful for half of their days from dusk to dawn, especially in the darker, colder half of the annual cycles.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      Thank you for watching, and your comment. Yes, there is definitely similarity there which I've spoken about in other videos. The whole motif of how the world is built was similar for most cultures in Indo-Europe for the last 4,000 years or so.

  • @musamba101
    @musamba101 Год назад +3

    Don't forget the Mittani were Indo Europeans and were in the Middle East since ancient times. They swore oaths to Vedic gods!!!

  • @saudal5176
    @saudal5176 16 дней назад +1

    Hello! I love your channel so much, and love this episode because I'm a fairy tale nerd. If you'd ever be interested in doing a video on more fairy tale motif origins, such as tales like Snow White, i'd absolutely watch. thanks for your time ❤

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  15 дней назад

      Yes, perhaps I should discuss the origins of fairytales and folktales. Thank you for the suggestion.

  • @JesseP.Watson
    @JesseP.Watson 2 года назад +1

    Fascinating.

  • @elf_in_a_shoebox528
    @elf_in_a_shoebox528 2 года назад +1

    I saw the Berserker from Amon Amarth's album. Nice ;)

  • @gubjorggisladottir3525
    @gubjorggisladottir3525 2 года назад +1

    3:06 This story reminds me of a children´s myth story called "Búkolla" Búkolla is the name of a very wise cow. The cow saves the boy who went to get her back from the Trolls who stole her.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      That sounds like an interesting story, I shall try and find it.

  • @elecwiz171
    @elecwiz171 2 года назад +1

    Your method reminds me of the great Claude Lévi-Strauss. Keep on!

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      Wow, thank you for the compliment. I'm humbled by such a comparison.

  • @MrOuruboros
    @MrOuruboros Год назад +1

    just a comment to support your channel 🙂

  • @bradkemble
    @bradkemble 2 года назад +1

    You see a story of storm gods battling, I see analogy of writers block & brainstorming your way through until it produces 'fruit'.

  • @MADSAHAD
    @MADSAHAD 2 года назад +2

    I was supposed to do a few things around the house today, well my wife will have to do without me today 🤣👍

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      Blame it on the dragons! And thank you for watching.

  • @biogopher
    @biogopher 2 года назад +8

    I would love to hear more about the near-east dragons and the differences between the Indo-European style

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад +1

      Then subscribe and you will :)

  • @osledmag6878
    @osledmag6878 2 года назад +1

    Tea for me!

  • @igcometa
    @igcometa Год назад +1

    I love mythical creatures.. 🥺💕

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  Год назад

      Be careful when hugging a dragon...

  • @ak8990
    @ak8990 2 года назад +2

    This is actually one of my favorite subjects (granted about 7 years ago before I had kids I was researching this and could tell you ALOT more about it than I can now as a mother of 3 young kids). I love the story of Tiamat (and hadn't heard about Vrtra but I'm am completely interesting in researching that now), because how it ties into so many other creation stories around the world. Almost all creation stories (even many I found based in ancient America) has a beginning of a watery chaos. For Egypt, it was the motherly waters of Nun from which Ptah (the sacred mountain) and Atum-Ra (the light) sprang and creation started. In fact, in some myths every time Atum-Ra (depicted as the sun) sets he travels through the waters of underworld and before being reborn each day in the sky he has to fight and kill Apophis (another god of chaos who is represented as a serpent). For the Chinese, it was called "Great Glory" full of endless possibilities. Before Tiamat (to transformed into a sea serpent or dragon to kill the pantheon of gods after they killed her spouse), the older Sumerian cities worshipped Nammu who held the same function as Tiamat as the watery mother chaos. In Dhammi, this being was seen as a "worm". In the beginning of the creation myth of the Native American Crow tribe, there is a watery abyss from which the Coyote creator emerges. What I see in alot of these myths and what I especially love about them is that they use the bodies of the motherly chaos being to help form the creation and also from that go on to build a sacred temple (like from the watery Egyptian Nun goddess Ptah the sacred mountain emerges and becomes holy when Atum-Ra arises and rests upon it). After Tiamat was killed, her body was used to help build the world and upon Apsu (her spouses) remains Marduk built their first temple (ziggurat). Of course there is a lot I am leaving out from lack of memory, but the symbolism of the serpent/dragon used in these stories goes well beyond what we think of today when we think of dragons, its connected to chaos, power, seas...I often think they compared it to the ocean how it can be beautiful and life bringing yet chaotic and dangerous at times.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment. I love reading these things, thank you.

    • @RS-tr1dq
      @RS-tr1dq Год назад

      Fascinating! I am a total novice but came to many of the same conclusions. May I ask some of your sources so I can research for myself?

    • @ak8990
      @ak8990 Год назад

      @@RS-tr1dq Sure, in truth I was writing a 236 page thesis on it so I have ALOT of sources, but I will give you some to start with that have great information: 1) Leeming, David (2010). Creation Myths of the World, Vol I and Vol II; 2) Heidel, Alexander (1942). The Babylonian Genesis; 3) Matthew, Victor H. and Benjamin, Don C. (2006). Old Testament Parallels: Laws and Stories from the Ancient Near East
      4) Naydler, James (1996). Temple of the Cosmos: The Ancient Egyptian Experience of the Sacred, 5) Philopt, J. H. (1897). The Sacred Tree; Or, The Tree in Religion and Myth. Let me know if you want any more.

    • @RS-tr1dq
      @RS-tr1dq Год назад

      @@ak8990 thanks!

  • @frankquilo9633
    @frankquilo9633 2 года назад +3

    Was promised a princess for slaying a dragon. But all I got was a cow. -.-'

  • @blackzenith7589
    @blackzenith7589 2 года назад +1

    I don’t know if it’s too specific, but it’s a topic that has always interested me due to the similarities of many old civilizations and cultures in their depiction of them: giant water serpents/“water dragons” of sorts throughout mythologies

  • @jrsydvl7218
    @jrsydvl7218 2 года назад +1

    I was talking about dragon stories with some buddies just last week. We were discussing how so many cultures had dragons.

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  2 года назад

      It's a fascinating subject, so many myths.

  • @CarlForgey
    @CarlForgey Год назад +1

    When you talk about princesses earlier, and then talk about "all power being bestowed onto you Indra", it feels to me that the princess doesn't so much represent treasure as a path to power, since it's through the royal marriage that the dragon slayer is brought from non-noble status to ruling all or part of the kingdom.

  • @exudeku
    @exudeku 2 года назад +3

    Meanwhile Fate/Grand Order fans: Tiamommy vs the Hottest eastern Dragon

  • @owretchedman
    @owretchedman Год назад +1

    Good talk.

  • @theodery2712
    @theodery2712 Год назад +1

    My theory on dragons is people came into caves high in the mountains ( dragons fly). They found smoke on the walls left from primitive man( dragons are fire breathing) found large dinosaur bones they couldn't explain and figured it must be a flying, fire breathing extra large animal, hence....

    • @Crecganford
      @Crecganford  Год назад

      My video in a couple of weeks will try to explain the origin of the myth, and it does include caves… but I’ll give in more spoilers here.