As a spacesaver, the crusader is more compact. You get the stove, the bottle the metal cup and a plasic cup in one pakage. You should keep the water bottle full for storage and cooking etc, and a seperate bottle for drinking on the go.
As you say both are totally acceptable and one would not go wrong with either one. I have both. Today there is purpose built metal cover for the metal BCB cup. I really need to “quick draw” my canteen to take a drink. I prefer the versatility of the British/NATO system because the water bottle is a little larger (in the U.S. SW more water is always better), the metal cup makes a better cook pot, and the plastic cup allows to enjoy a beverage while eating out of the metal cup/bush pot. The newer versions use anodized aluminum, I prefer the silver untreated stainless steel to the coated stainless steel or aluminum. Personal preference as many have no issue with anodized aluminum. The black coating on the stainless version can and does chip off with hard use. Having said all that your video was a good and fair comparison.
@@mikerilling2745 BushcraftUK, BushcraftLab, or ArmyKit all have them listed if you Google search “lid for British BCB canteen cup.” The ArmyKit one may not be stainless. I bought mine on eBay some time ago along with a bale for the cup. Correction to my original post: I meant to say, “I really NEVER need to “quick draw” my canteen to take a drink.”.
I have both. Like both. Crusader holds more. I take off plastic cup and carry separate. Replace the plastic cup with another metal cup and have two cook pots. Guy on eBay makes thick aluminum or stainless lids for bcb crusader cup have several great quality built like a tank like the cup
Ok going on from my previous comment on another of your videos... I use and prefer the Crusader for the advantages you mention... I don't like the plastic cup and don't use it... can't see the point in carrying 2 cups... I have my Osprey bottle in the pouch sitting in the cup, just like my GI pouch and use in the same way....(I gave my US system to my son)... so really your issue is only and issue if you keep the second, superfluous second cup... As has been said before.. Heavy Cover did briefly make a Crusader lid.. I got one from Rob at the Canteen Shop at the time.. It is very good... a lid and a strainer... brilliant piece of kit. The reason I prefer the Crusader is that I can use if more easily for boil in the (ziplok) bag meals I prepare or for MRE's... it just has a far better capacity.
The plastic cup and canteen, part of the BCB Crusader Mk I and Mk II system, is made by Osprey of the UK. They are marked with the name and a NATO NSN and year of manufacture. If it doesnt have these then they are the inferior knockoffs. The US GI canteen cup lid sold by selfreliance outfitters fits both Mk I and Mk II canteen cups with a very small gap for vent similarly to how Blackie showed us with the US GI Heavycover cover lid. One to one comparison between the plastic canteens and between the canteen cups IMO the BCB Crusader wins. The NATO canteen has a wider mouth, silicone gasket seal in the lid, better shape ergonomically and the canteen cannot be squeezed as easily compared to the US GI canteen.
There was a heavy cover version for the crusader 1. As a kit to be stored compactly carrying cooking water... it’s the best system I’ve seen. As a hydration system I agree... too much disassembly required for a sip of water.
The purpose of carrying the full canteen inside the stacked stove/cup/canteen/plastic cup set is to have water for cooking the meal and the brew. It doesn't have to be the routine for getting just a drink of water. The system can further be divided by having a second canteen carried upside down in the cook kit, while the plastic cup can be put into a utility pouch on the belt, the canteen inserted again upside down, and this is your drinking water. The US system is pretty canteen focused and canteen limited. The utility/canteen pouch system the British use provides for more flexibility in adding additional small items to suit the needs of the user as well as assisting in load carriage of the pack.
I like both the American and the UK system, but I camp with one pouch with the full set of British gear that's specifically for cooking, and another pouch that's just for the 58 pattern flask.
I was issued the crusader mug and used one for best part of 20 years off and on, there was a after market lid (made by heavy cover) but they stopped making them several years ago, plastic lids are available ... but their not great. IMO ... The crusader mug/cookset is excellent and superior quality to the US canteen cup ... BUT i think the US canteen cup is a better system due to the fact its compact/lighter, not as thick as the crusader so better on fuel consumption if your on limited supply. I recently sold my crusader .... but still have a couple of US canteen cup set ups. (there is a cook stand available for the crusader, well worth buying if you see it anywhere, i use one with my US canteen)
Heavy cover did a lid for the NATO's crusader mug unfortunately, luckily I got a HC lid before they stopped, the nato osprey water bottle that comes as the set is brilliant, played rugby with the bottle many atime while on down time , thanks for the videos blackie, cheers Craig
58 pattern to give it it’s correct name I’ve got one stamped 1995 that I’ve been using since 96 can’t beat em especially with the metal lid sadly no longer in production and a hexi cooker 👍🏻
The NATO 57 patt. waterbottle and cup are all plastic the cup you are showing is a civilian made item and when I was in the army not issued you could buy it and use it if you wanted to. Cooking was done using issue mess tins. The web gear issued before the 58 patt had a metal mug. On the 58 pat system, the plastic cup sits over the top of the waterbottle. To get round the problem of having to get both cup and waterbottle out we just turned the kit upside down! Good luck trying to get the BCB crusader kit and a plastic mug into an issue 58 pouch..... its not easy! There are loads of metal lids for sale in the UK, but the company (BCB) provide a clear plastic lid with the kit when you buy it new. Its reasonably good never had a problem with it melting. However because it is transparent its easy to lose
Good video would you ever do a. Get together field course for black powder guns just wondering I have been shooting cap. A and ball pistol some would be fun to get together with a lot of people doing this
i have been asked that alot..and have been talking to someone with lots of land about holding a percussion revolver camp out seminar and shoot..if it come to pass i will post info
a old family story of a shaman in our native side grandparents..it was said a shaman is forged in the fires of life..so shamans forge means my life exp in woodscraft/bushcraft
@@BLACKIETHOMAS It's a good thing your Family retained some knowledge of the native side of your Family. Mine tried their best to hide it.....There are a few photos that have survived ,however. My Great Aunt was a genealogist and I got to look through some albums of the old photos, and guess what? You can dress people up in Victorian clothes, but the facial structure shows. Lol.
under the canteen and stove i put in in the bottom first then stack canteen cup with stove attached..then place canteen inside cup..it all rides very well
To be honest, I disliked the Crusader 1 system outside of the 58 pat canteen and plastic mug. The pot stand is a lump as is the metal mug. The Crusader 2 mug was much better in my opinion, it's lighter, has a bigger capacity while still being very tough. The pot stand is still a lump but it's more versatile than the C1 pot stand. I have to go with Blackie on this one, the US type canteen cup has a lot more options available and is large enough while still being fairly compact. My US type kit has had way more use than both of my Crusader systems and that speaks for itself.
I found the MKI (750 ml) version too heavy. But I recently got the MKII version - 1 liter capacity and anodized aluminum. Better for cooking and lighter. I like it much better. But I go back and forth between the two systems, depending on my mood.
The best place to pick up British surplus is on the fields of Yorktown or the fields around New Orleans. The American canteen cup is far superior to the NATO cup with a tensile strength of nearly eight to one, additionally due in large part to the advances gained in aerospace in the 1950's the American canteen cup has radioactive barriers that shield from vapor delivered weapons all to common on the modern battlefield. Plus the American canteen cup has the benefit of possibly being issued at one time and carried by American's defending something, an idea new to this world that everyone has worth and if you dream it and are willing to sweat for it, then you get a shot, it may be a long shot but in America you get it. And that same young crazy country liberated all those countries who said we would never make it. No it is not just a canteen cup it is a grail from a quest to form all that is good in this world, and I would gladly fill it with my last drop of blood and sweat to keep my America Free.
I have both British and US canteen cup systems, I prefer the US system too for the reasons you give plus the US cup is made of a better grade of stainless. The British cup is also made in China. Tea drinkers: to get rid of tannin deposits in the cup, fill it to the brim with hot water and drop in 4 false teeth cleaning tablets, after a couple of hours repeat or if it looks clean, wash it with hot water and soap. No more tea stains! If you need a beautiful handmade lid, look up Bob Bartelme - he is a tinsmith who does beautiful work and makes excellent lids for any canteen cup you need.
@@boomshanka8743 Agreed, the MTP uniforms are manufactured in China, and there is an obvious quality difference. The NSN for the Crusader mug is 8465-99-721-3131, and they were also in use long before anything was bid out to be made there. Mine do not show any markings to show that's where they were made.
@@chadhalvorson441 sounds like you have a Mk I cup from the early 80s, is that right? I remember reading that they had much better fit and finish than later Mk I cups, and they were made by a British manufacturer. Does it have a manufacturer stamp?
As a spacesaver, the crusader is more compact. You get the stove, the bottle the metal cup and a plasic cup in one pakage. You should keep the water bottle full for storage and cooking etc, and a seperate bottle for drinking on the go.
As you say both are totally acceptable and one would not go wrong with either one. I have both. Today there is purpose built metal cover for the metal BCB cup.
I really need to “quick draw” my canteen to take a drink.
I prefer the versatility of the British/NATO system because the water bottle is a little larger (in the U.S. SW more water is always better), the metal cup makes a better cook pot, and the plastic cup allows to enjoy a beverage while eating out of the metal cup/bush pot.
The newer versions use anodized aluminum, I prefer the silver untreated stainless steel to the coated stainless steel or aluminum. Personal preference as many have no issue with anodized aluminum. The black coating on the stainless version can and does chip off with hard use.
Having said all that your video was a good and fair comparison.
Where can you get a bespoke stainless steel lid for the mark one mug?
@@mikerilling2745 BushcraftUK, BushcraftLab, or ArmyKit all have them listed if you Google search “lid for British BCB canteen cup.” The ArmyKit one may not be stainless. I bought mine on eBay some time ago along with a bale for the cup.
Correction to my original post: I meant to say, “I really NEVER need to “quick draw” my canteen to take a drink.”.
I have both. Like both. Crusader holds more. I take off plastic cup and carry separate. Replace the plastic cup with another metal cup and have two cook pots. Guy on eBay makes thick aluminum or stainless lids for bcb crusader cup have several great quality built like a tank like the cup
I never cease to learn from your channel, Blackie. Thank you, sir!
Ok going on from my previous comment on another of your videos... I use and prefer the Crusader for the advantages you mention... I don't like the plastic cup and don't use it... can't see the point in carrying 2 cups... I have my Osprey bottle in the pouch sitting in the cup, just like my GI pouch and use in the same way....(I gave my US system to my son)... so really your issue is only and issue if you keep the second, superfluous second cup...
As has been said before.. Heavy Cover did briefly make a Crusader lid.. I got one from Rob at the Canteen Shop at the time.. It is very good... a lid and a strainer... brilliant piece of kit.
The reason I prefer the Crusader is that I can use if more easily for boil in the (ziplok) bag meals I prepare or for MRE's... it just has a far better capacity.
The plastic cup and canteen, part of the BCB Crusader Mk I and Mk II system, is made by Osprey of the UK. They are marked with the name and a NATO NSN and year of manufacture. If it doesnt have these then they are the inferior knockoffs. The US GI canteen cup lid sold by selfreliance outfitters fits both Mk I and Mk II canteen cups with a very small gap for vent similarly to how Blackie showed us with the US GI Heavycover cover lid. One to one comparison between the plastic canteens and between the canteen cups IMO the BCB Crusader wins. The NATO canteen has a wider mouth, silicone gasket seal in the lid, better shape ergonomically and the canteen cannot be squeezed as easily compared to the US GI canteen.
There was a heavy cover version for the crusader 1. As a kit to be stored compactly carrying cooking water... it’s the best system I’ve seen. As a hydration system I agree... too much disassembly required for a sip of water.
The purpose of carrying the full canteen inside the stacked stove/cup/canteen/plastic cup set is to have water for cooking the meal and the brew. It doesn't have to be the routine for getting just a drink of water. The system can further be divided by having a second canteen carried upside down in the cook kit, while the plastic cup can be put into a utility pouch on the belt, the canteen inserted again upside down, and this is your drinking water.
The US system is pretty canteen focused and canteen limited. The utility/canteen pouch system the British use provides for more flexibility in adding additional small items to suit the needs of the user as well as assisting in load carriage of the pack.
I like both the American and the UK system, but I camp with one pouch with the full set of British gear that's specifically for cooking, and another pouch that's just for the 58 pattern flask.
Bcb makes a whole kit to turn those old water bottle sets into cool sets.
I was issued the crusader mug and used one for best part of 20 years off and on,
there was a after market lid (made by heavy cover) but they stopped making them several years ago, plastic lids are available ... but their not great.
IMO ... The crusader mug/cookset is excellent and superior quality to the US canteen cup ... BUT i think the US canteen cup is a better system due to the fact its compact/lighter, not as thick as the crusader so better on fuel consumption if your on limited supply.
I recently sold my crusader .... but still have a couple of US canteen cup set ups.
(there is a cook stand available for the crusader, well worth buying if you see it anywhere, i use one with my US canteen)
Great info sir thanks for sharing 👍 have a great week
The British Army water bottle pouch fits just the steel mug and bottle.
Heavy cover did a lid for the NATO's crusader mug unfortunately, luckily I got a HC lid before they stopped, the nato osprey water bottle that comes as the set is brilliant, played rugby with the bottle many atime while on down time , thanks for the videos blackie, cheers Craig
I have both, one on each hip, when serving, drink from the US, refill/cook from the UK, now out, drink from bladder..
Blackie, thanks for sharing, God bless !
Good honest review. Thank you!
I think that this is the most fair and honest answer about both about their pros and cons thank you for an honest review
58 pattern to give it it’s correct name I’ve got one stamped 1995 that I’ve been using since 96 can’t beat em especially with the metal lid sadly no longer in production and a hexi cooker 👍🏻
The NATO 57 patt. waterbottle and cup are all plastic the cup you are showing is a civilian made item and when I was in the army not issued you could buy it and use it if you wanted to.
Cooking was done using issue mess tins.
The web gear issued before the 58 patt had a metal mug.
On the 58 pat system, the plastic cup sits over the top of the waterbottle. To get round the problem of having to get both cup and waterbottle out we just turned the kit upside down!
Good luck trying to get the BCB crusader kit and a plastic mug into an issue 58 pouch..... its not easy!
There are loads of metal lids for sale in the UK, but the company (BCB) provide a clear plastic lid with the kit when you buy it new. Its reasonably good never had a problem with it melting. However because it is transparent its easy to lose
What is the american ewuivalent system , in what name can i find it on market? Thanks for your time! Excellent videos!
look for u.s.army canteen cup..that should lead you to it in ebay / amazon
Good video would you ever do a. Get together field course for black powder guns just wondering I have been shooting cap. A and ball pistol some would be fun to get together with a lot of people doing this
i have been asked that alot..and have been talking to someone with lots of land about holding a percussion revolver camp out seminar and shoot..if it come to pass i will post info
Why " shaman's forge "?
a old family story of a shaman in our native side grandparents..it was said a shaman is forged in the fires of life..so shamans forge means my life exp in woodscraft/bushcraft
@@BLACKIETHOMAS : awesome because thats why Im so strongly attracted to nature and as a shaman in my nature as a healer.
@@BLACKIETHOMAS It's a good thing your Family retained some knowledge of the native side of your Family. Mine tried their best to hide it.....There are a few photos that have survived ,however. My Great Aunt was a genealogist and I got to look through some albums of the old photos, and guess what? You can dress people up in Victorian clothes, but the facial structure shows. Lol.
Blackie, If you're carrying the full US canteen system, where do you stow the lid?
under the canteen and stove i put in in the bottom first then stack canteen cup with stove attached..then place canteen inside cup..it all rides very well
@@BLACKIETHOMAS That's going to be a tight squeeze, lol. I like the lid idea, though.
Never heard of the Crusader cup I agree it would be a better cook cup.
british canteen cup..not sure where it got the name crusader unless thats some brand name
Blackie, camp with Blackie 2020 ???
wde
To be honest, I disliked the Crusader 1 system outside of the 58 pat canteen and plastic mug. The pot stand is a lump as is the metal mug. The Crusader 2 mug was much better in my opinion, it's lighter, has a bigger capacity while still being very tough. The pot stand is still a lump but it's more versatile than the C1 pot stand. I have to go with Blackie on this one, the US type canteen cup has a lot more options available and is large enough while still being fairly compact. My US type kit has had way more use than both of my Crusader systems and that speaks for itself.
I found the MKI (750 ml) version too heavy. But I recently got the MKII version - 1 liter capacity and anodized aluminum. Better for cooking and lighter. I like it much better. But I go back and forth between the two systems, depending on my mood.
The best place to pick up British surplus is on the fields of Yorktown or the fields around New Orleans. The American canteen cup is far superior to the NATO cup with a tensile strength of nearly eight to one, additionally due in large part to the advances gained in aerospace in the 1950's the American canteen cup has radioactive barriers that shield from vapor delivered weapons all to common on the modern battlefield. Plus the American canteen cup has the benefit of possibly being issued at one time and carried by American's defending something, an idea new to this world that everyone has worth and if you dream it and are willing to sweat for it, then you get a shot, it may be a long shot but in America you get it. And that same young crazy country liberated all those countries who said we would never make it. No it is not just a canteen cup it is a grail from a quest to form all that is good in this world, and I would gladly fill it with my last drop of blood and sweat to keep my America Free.
Chacote Outdoor Recreation Been to both battle fields. Missed the gear. July 4th, here's to whoop'n the British twice.
Well that's...something.
I have both British and US canteen cup systems, I prefer the US system too for the reasons you give plus the US cup is made of a better grade of stainless. The British cup is also made in China. Tea drinkers: to get rid of tannin deposits in the cup, fill it to the brim with hot water and drop in 4 false teeth cleaning tablets, after a couple of hours repeat or if it looks clean, wash it with hot water and soap. No more tea stains! If you need a beautiful handmade lid, look up Bob Bartelme - he is a tinsmith who does beautiful work and makes excellent lids for any canteen cup you need.
The Osprey Pattern 58 cup is not made in China. The imitations are.
@@chadhalvorson441 if it has the letters CN as part of the NSN, then it was made in China. A lot of Brit uniform and field items are Chinese made.
@@boomshanka8743 Agreed, the MTP uniforms are manufactured in China, and there is an obvious quality difference. The NSN for the Crusader mug is 8465-99-721-3131, and they were also in use long before anything was bid out to be made there. Mine do not show any markings to show that's where they were made.
@@chadhalvorson441 sounds like you have a Mk I cup from the early 80s, is that right? I remember reading that they had much better fit and finish than later Mk I cups, and they were made by a British manufacturer. Does it have a manufacturer stamp?
boom shanka BCB were the makers mines dated 1995 I’d have to dig it out of my haversack to get a full ref number from it