I'll tell the opposite story. I was 15 & at band camp (!). One morning, one of the trombonists was in the field playing the trombone part along with a recording he had blasting on a boombox. For the first minute or so I didn't pay much attention. But as the music went along, it became more & more amazing. I ran out & asked him what it was. He stopped just long enough to say, "The Pines of the Appian Way from The Pines of Rome by Ottorino Respighi." He then finished off the climax. I was immediately hooked.
I had a similar experience with a large box set of Readers Digest called ''Hymn to Nature''. I had read a book by a French mountaineer who said that during his mountain expeditions he sometimes always had it in mind. 'Alpensinfonie by Richard Strauss. A short time later they broadcast this work on the radio, I don't know by which interpreter, and frankly it didn't touch me. It must be said that apart from 2001, the work of Richard Strauss m , was rather unknown at 13.....when I received the big Readers Digest box set there was the version by Rudolf Kempe and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra.....I listened to it and that was it. the revelation....! I literally fell in love with this work which it must be said was grandiose in my opinion....of course when we are young and we want to travel the works which make us discover other earthly places take us towards other skies....
I had a similar experience with Berlioz. For years, I resisted him. I lived near Manchester (England) and had a season ticket for the Halle Orch. Concerts, then (late 1970s/early 1980s), were always: Overture, Concerto, Interval, Symphony. Often the Overture would be The Corsair, or Roman Carnival or the Symphony would be The "Fantastique". I would sit through these politely but never thought much of them. Why not? They were not German? They were not Russian? I don't really know! Then one day Berlioz clicked into place in my mind. I cannot recall what precipitated this conversion, but suddenly, I "got" Berlioz. Overtures that I had listened to a hundred times before, suddenly took on a whole new meaning. I got to know the major works and today, my love for the music of Berlioz is intense. This culminated in the concert performance, over two nights, of Les Troyennes, at London's Barbican, conducted by the late Sir Colin Davis, a few years ago. This was one of the great experiences of my life. I also believe that "Benvenuto Cellini" and "Beatrice and Benedict" are much underrated masterpieces. I believe that Berlioz invented nineteenth century romanticism, being a seminal influence on Wagner and Liszt.
My late brother LOVED the "Pines"..first 3 recordings we had--in order: Ormandy (later 50's--poor), Toscanini (much better) Reiner (much better yet, and in many ways still unmatched). The Kempe recording only rated an "OK" from him. I have the Kempe coupled on a single Chesky Cd with the WONDERFUL..even stunning...Feste Romane and Fountains, with Massimo Freccia and the Philharmonia, recorded in 1968 but ALSO released as part of one of those big Reader's Digest/RCA boxes ("Music for a Wine-drenched Evening"..or something like that). LR
Dave brings so much joy to us all. I mean, I was breaking my head about this. Even asked a priest for help. Nah, not Reiner. But yes, Toscanini. It all comes back to me. The music blasting through the old class room and through an open windown on to the near to empty courtyard. Everything else quiet as if everything else was really trying to hear every sound of it and thus imagining being there. Like Dave said once, Toscanini knew the composer, the work, the country and its people. Gloriously loud but meticulous Toscanni with the NBC Symphony following his lead 🙂
Despite the older, mono recording I first heard these pieces on Victrola lp, Toscanini/NBC. I thought they were terrific. The Catacombs chant sounded like some familiar rock music of the late 60s. The evening section with the nightingale (I later learned the NBC Symphony used something called a "bird box" and not the Brunswick gramophone 78) and then the finale which could never be cranked up loud enough. Later at a 2nd hand store, I found RCA's original lp issue which was a gorgeous book of essays and rotograveure photographs of the pines and fountains. Worth seeking out. Both works are perfect summertime music. The piece I didnt get for a long time was Debussy's Pelleas and Melisande. I had heard the Ansermet but it was Karajan's EMI that cracked open that door. Then hearing it live in person sealed the deal.
I didn't like Elliott Carter's Variations for Orchestra until I heard the recording by James Levine. He was the first conductor I heard who clearly brought out the two different tempos that are played simultaneously. For me this is the "fourth dimension" of the piece that makes it so exciting. Unfortunately, I think many of his works are so complex that no one could distangle them.
My first encounter with Resphigi was with the Reiner recordings. It was love at first hearing. What took me a long time to get was the music of the second Viennese school until I heard Dorati conducting this music on a Mercury LP. Then it all seemed to make sense to me. Now one of my favourite orchestral works is Schoenbergs Variations for Orchestra. So full of colour and incident.
This is a GREAT discussion topic! Pines of Rome was one of the many fantastic pieces of classical music that I got turned on to through drum corps. Star of Indiana played Pines of Rome in '91 and that arrangement really stuck with me- those brilliant, shimmering, lush late-Romantic sounds struck me like a bolt of lightning! I love how he used layered rhythms between sections to create those "clouds" of texture- a trick I've adapted in my own arranging to great effect!
I'll note a related phenomenon--not paying attention to a piece until you hear a certain performance. My example is Mozart's Wind Seranade, K. 388. I picked up the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra recording somewhere (International Preview?) and listened to it occasionally. Somehow, I catalogued it as light-weight Mozart ("It's just a divertemento, no?") Then, I attended a soiree put on by ING. The Concertgebouw was visting New York, and ING paid for some of the musicians to perform a private concert, playing the Mendelsohn Octet and K. 388. As I listened to the Mozart, I realized that I knew the piece, and that it was wonderful. I dug it out when I got home, and it's been in regular circulation ever since. I made this mistake frequently with International Preview selections. I have an Esterhazy Quartet recording of two of Haydn's Opus 20 quartets, which I listened to a couple of times without much thought. Fifteen years later, I started listening to the Auryn Quartet recordings, I realized I really enjoyed Haydn's quartets. I dug out the Esterhazy CD, and it was terrific.
The first time I encountered the Pines of Rome was in my early 20s when I was playing clarinet in my university's concert band and we played an arrangement of it. It was by far the most challenging ensemble piece I had to play in those days. Even my humble 3rd clarinet part had a tricky obligato section that could potentially make or break the oboe solo that came after. Everybody had to be really focused the whole time. Amazing piece. I love it ever since. My work-I-just-didn't-get-until-I-heard-the-version-by is Schubert's 9th Symphony. I found it so boring and repetitive but then one night at a concert by the Montreal Symphony Orchestra, Kent Nagano made me see the light, and now it's one of my favourite symphonies.
I first heard the Pines and Fountains when my brother assembled a simple hi-fi setup and started buying classical LPs - he was a high school senior, I was 9, it was 1954 and the Respighi was Toscanini in the gatefold album. The Pines of the Appian Way gave me major goosebumps, just like Chopin's Military Polonaise had been doing, and when the full orchestra got the big tune in Tubby the Tuba. Goosebumps is what first got me into classical music. Several years ago a friend who knew I was mainly into classical music and who could enjoy some here and there himself asked me what I pictured when I listened to it. He was a bit surprised when I said, I didn't picture anything. What am thinking about then, he asked. I said I just followed where the music was going. I suppose it would have been more accurate to say I was having the music take me on an emotional journey - taking me through feelings like excitement, or urgency, or exhilaration, or sadness, or anticipation, or yearning, or, or, or… - whatever it had up its sleeve and however it connected it together.
I didn't really enjoy it until I heard Muti's impressive Philadelphia rendering, and even then it's still not a favorite, but the work still gets played on the radio a lot so I end up hearing it anyway, lol. The station just a few days ago played that recent recording that Dave reviewed, which was good timing. Sorry I can't remember the name of the conductor; Italian orch I think.
@@OuterGalaxyLounge I've heard a fair number of really good ones, including the Muti/TPO. It's a matter of personal preference, of course, but the Reiner/CSO remains my clear favorite.
I'm with you there. I'm not visual, in fact I find my eyes distracting when listening to music. That's why I prefer to close them when listening and create my own thoughts and images. My introduction to Respighi was Toscanini's Mono LP. Another great performance.
Interesting story! I found this piece while searching music for my own video projects. I could easily hear Pines in some film because it's so depicting. One can hear little Ennio Morricone in the trumpet solo in the second movement. I find it great since it's almost like a film theme by Elmer Bernstein Jerome Moross.
I really don’t know how this will be received, but here goes: I did not understand the appeal of Brahms’ German Requiem until I heard the chamber arrangement premiered by David Hill and the Yale Schola Cantorum on Hyperion. That recording revealed the textures of the music in ways I’d never been able to distinguish clearly in the full orchestra.
The first time I encountered the Pines of Rome was in my early teens when I was visiting the house of my parent's friends. they had the stereo Ormandy Pines and Fountains on Columbia records. The cover intrigued me as it had a photo of a fountain inserted in a photo of a pine tree. I asked if i could listen to their stereo and was given permission but only at a low volume. Nevertheless i was wowed that first time. I admit i didn't like the first movement but when that chant from the catacombs came up - i loved it instantly. i have always been intrigued by photos of the catacombs in Rome so naturally that movement (section) cinched it for me. and then the final march of the Roman legions - i thought of the movie Spartacus and i decided then and there to purchase a copy....but it was with Bernstein.
Richard Shahinian at his booth at Chicago CES introduced me to the concept of “Receptors“ vis-à-vis classical music. At your first encounter with “Pines”, you simply didn’t have the Receptors for that music. A year later(and of course a 14-year-old person is very different physiologically and mentally from a 13 year old), given the context (your comfort with late romantic, all- stops-out big orchestra stuff via “Don Juan“), you had the Receptors, and that was that!
I think I had a similar experience with Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade. The first recording I ever got of it was by Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra. It didn't make a big impact on me at first, until Fritz Reiner and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra rode to the rescue!
Another work which I had a meh experience with for a while was Shostakovich's Leningrad Symphony. The first recording I ever bought of it was Yuri Temirkanov and the St. Petersburg Philharmonic. Although I listened to it a few times, it didn't quite make a big impact on me. But later, I bought the recording by Leonard Bernstein and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and then... WOW!
It was the repetitiousness of Sheherezade that first struck me. I felt it would have been better at half the length. Not sure I don't still feel that way but now I can sit back and enjoy it all.
I’m still waiting for my moment with Schumann’s piano concerto. I love Schumann, but that work just hasn’t clicked yet. I’ll just have to keep on listening!
For me it was Mahler 3. I think it was the length and that the recordings I'd heard, as well as a live performance, moved at glacial paces. It was difficult to find time to listen to it all in one sitting. When I heard Kubelik's earlier version the tempo was relatively quick and seemed more exciting, and now it's one of my favorites.
I do have a "Pines of Rome" story that I'd nearly forgotten -- but I remember it now as if it were last week... My older brother bought about 3 or 4 classical LP's (for 99-cents each?) and these were my introduction to classical music. One was Sir Malcolm Sargent conducting The Pines & Fountains of Rome. (One was Beethoven's 9th, the other Saint-Saens Symphony No. 3). Because there were so few of them, I got to know them very well. The Fountains of Rome was a total bore to me, meaningless mush, but occasionally I would hear "side two" of The Pines of Rome. I must have been 7 or 8 years old, based on vividly recalling exactly how tall I was, with regard to our Stereophonic record player and the window. It was a bright summer day and I happened to be standing directly in front of the speakers when ""La fontana del Tritone al mattino"" (The Triton Fountain at Morning) began playing: 4 Horns in unison, high screeching strings tremolo backed up by a piccolo trilling a minor 2nd -- none of which I could have told you at the time... If I could count on three fingers the most frightening moments of my life, this was one of them. I was frozen in place, a paralysis of fear, unable to move -- praying that it would end -- approximately 30 seconds of absolute terror. Funny thing, it was the brightest summer day you could possibly imagine -- it's not like I stumbled into a bed of snakes in a haunted house. I was so relieved when the music became friendlier that I felt like the heavens had responded with a miracle. At the time I didn't think it was funny at all but looking back on it -- wow. Just from hearing a piece of music. I'll never forget it.
You 'age' into some composers, some music - though I enjoyed Bruckner in my twenties, I thought the 5th symphony an utter yawn. Listened to it twenty years later and the scales(?!) fell from my ears. Something to do with gaining patience.
I loved The Pines of Rome from the first time I heard it. The recording was by the Czech Philharmonic conducted by Antonio Pedrotti. The orchestral sound was new and thrilling and the tone of the clarinet soloist very special.
What springs to mind is the first Act of Tristan und Isolde. I was dutifully listening to the "reference" recording led by Furtwangler, with Kirsten Flagstad, and despite my world being rocked by the second and third acts, I simply could not find enjoyment in the seemingly formless expanse of declamatory singing by Isolde. It certainly didn't help that Flagstad's voice sounded matronly. The big revelation arrived when I heard the Carlos Kleiber recording. Immediately, everything came into focus. Besides the superior sonics, there was music that really moved, and the shape of the drama was much clearer. The sailors' music had real verve and pep! That was a particular discovery that left me annoyed with Furtwangler.
A couple of works I didn't get until I heard a particular performance. I didn't get Beethoven's "Missa Solemnis" until I heard the galvanic 1937 recording of the first three movements as broadcast by the Cincinnati Symphony under Eugene Goossens, with Kirsten Flagstad as the soprano soloist. What an energy rush! I also didn't get Verdi's opera. "Aïda" until a late-1970's Met broadcast with soprano Gilda Cruz-Romo in the title role. Her power and authority really made the opera come alive for me!
Right! One of my first classical music experiences was Beethoven’s Ninth with Toscanini/NBC. So when riffling through LPs at my high school music library I came across the Missa Solemnis, I figured: same orchestra, same chorus, same conductor, same composer. So I tried it out. And yes, the insane energy and fantastic power at the “big moments” sounded just like the Ninth Symphony. Love at first hearing.! I guess a lot of folks don’t have the Receptors for it when they first encounter this piece and so it puts them off.
Three works I've NEVER got whoever is conducting/playing them are Till Eulenspiegel, The Sorcerer's Apprentice and Night On A Bare Mountain - I know, but there you go! The Pines of Rome however had me hooked from day one - beautiful tunes, fantastic orchestration and marvellous aural imagery. Incidentally Dave, be careful when the passage with the nightingale occurs because Finster and Mildred might start clawing at your speakers, little darlings that they are! 😊
That’s really interesting! Maybe it’s because those first three pieces follow a narrative really closely (or at least some have been e.g. in Fantasia) whereas Pines is more of a musical painting. I wonder what your opinion on the Dvorak symphonic poems would be since they follow a narrative very closely in pretty much all of them.
@@orangemandarin7925 Hello, and thank you for the reply. In the case of the three "unfathomable" works cited, I think it's more to do with the thematic material on display - I just don't find it terribly engrossing in all three cases. For sure, Strauss, Dukas and Mussorgsky ensure that the narratives of each of their chosen tales are successfully and vividly followed in musical terms - and this I can appreciate - but the actual thematic material is quite mundane in my opinion. Pines could quite easily have a narrative to follow with the music Respighi provides, and my positive emotional response to it as such would correspond to the response I have for the piece being, as you say, "more of a musical painting". The Dvorak symphonic poems are adorable works because of their special brand of Dvorakian lyricism married to moments of highly charged dramatic involvement. The fact that they follow the various narratives so vividly is another aspect of their great success. As for Fantasia, I can't remember ever having watched the film, to be honest. Perhaps I should give it a try. And so to summarise - I probably do "get" the three "unfathomable" works, but only to a point, and not enough to enjoy them as wholly successful listening experiences.All the best and sorry for the essay!
I had a similar experience with Berg. I saw Wozzeck during high school and thought it was just strange. Then some time during college, I came across the Renee Fleming performance of the Altenberg Lieder with Abbado at the Lucerne Festival, and it piqued my interest. As I’m an Italian opera person, I am also waiting for that aha moment with Fedora. I’ve tried it once or twice over the years, and I just don’t get it.
Curiously enough (since you mentioned the work) I had a similar experience, albeit at an earlier age, with the 1812 Overture. It happened at primary school and I was probably only about eight or nine when I'd won some kind of class competition - nothing serious but a quiz or something. Anyway, my prize was to choose a piece of music from the box of records available. And while my teacher obviously wanted me to pick John Lennon's "Imagine" (which I'd never heard of either), I was far more drawn by the cover of the 1812 and probably just by the concept of music with only a number as its title. So my choice was played to the class and it was basically horrible. The music sounded loud, totally incoherent, didn't seem to have any tunes in it at all and just went on and on interminably! Worse still, the whole sorry affair was basically my fault. But, and long story, short: I got over it!
The first recording I heard was Leonard Bernstein which was pretty magical, but I think my favorite is the Reiner! (Holy smokes I lied! I forgot that my first hearing of this was from Fantasia 2000! And I loved it. I know you said you aren't visual, but this was an interesting way to first hear this piece! )
Your first hearing of Pines/Fountains must have caught you in a bad moment, because Reiner's is indeed a fabulous version! It happened to me with Puccini when I was 13.The first Puccini Opera I heard was TOSCA and loved it. The second was TURANDOT and I fell head over hills for it. And then BOHÈME... needless to say I didn't get it at all until much, much later.
A work that I didn't fully appreciate until I heard the version by... Cesar Franck's Symphony in D minor. Even though I always suspected that this was an impressive symphony, most performances of it sounded awkward and clunky to me. This led me to conclude that perhaps the problem was with the work itself. Then, one day, I listened to a performance conducted by Guido Cantelli and found myself sitting on the edge of my seat. What a revelation! This music that I once considered stodgy now had momentum and excitement. Which goes to prove that sometimes the problem can be with the performance and not the listener. That being said, I'm pretty confident that no performance by anyone will ever make Richard Strauss sound exciting to me.
I completely agree about this symphony. Sometimes I listen to it and think it's a fantastic work; other times that it's one of the most boring symphonies ever written. Manfred Honeck and his Pittsburg orchestra did an excellent Richard Strauss disc - Honeck himself wrote the extensive booklet notes that explain much about how the music sounds - might that help?
For a long time I did not really like Dvorak (I had not heard many works) and I did not understand why Nikolaus Harnoncourt was seen as such an interesting conductor. Then I heard Harnoncourt’s recording of Dvorak’s ninth symphony. Suddenly I liked that work and Harnoncourt soon became one of my favourite conductors.
I've had experiences like that. One entails the opera, "Adrianna Lecouvreur", by Francesco Cilèa, which is about as approachable and appealing a melodious verismo opera can be. I had read about it someplace, a critic who poo-pooed its charms and dumped distain upon it and its composer. Tebaldi performed it in performaces that were broadcast two seasons at the Metropolitan Opera, both of them broadcast by Texaco on its Saturday live broadcasts from the Metropolitan Opera, New York CIty. The first broadcast sort of confirmed, in my mind, what that critic (and others like he) had to say about the work. However, Tebaldi et alia were making a pretty good case for the work in that sumptuous performance, so I was a bit mystified. Then, when it came back in the other Met season, I reacted more positively to the music, beginning to wonder what sort of Kool-Aid the critic had been drinking. Then, I attended a live performance of the same opera by the Metropolitan Opera on tour, in Boston. O.M.G., that turned out, the great production and superb costumes and all the rest certainly helping, to be one of the greatest evenings that I ever spent in an opera house. Tebaldi in the title role, along with Franco Corelli as Maurizio, were in glorious form, acting with terrific conviction as well as sheer vocal splendour. I was so moved by their work in the last act of the opera that I had to run out of the venue and go down the alley behind it, and weep profusely, in order not to make a spectacle of myself. I still dealy cherish this opera and other works by Cilèa. Total about-face, eh?
It takes singers like that to really put AL across. I vividly recall hearing the 1969 broadcast of it, following the libretto and thought it was marvelous. Previously, they'd broadcast Peter Grimes and Wozzeck. I thought they were great, too, though Wozzeck only kicked in after the first 15 minutes or so until after I got used to the idiom.
Yes, you are right about that. "Adrianna Lecouvreur" is a real star vehicle. It is incredibly potent with truly great stars like Renata Tebaldi, Magda Oliveiro, Franco Corelli, Marcella Pobbè, Giulietta Simionato, Franco Corelli, and a few lucky others in the three principal roles, but it can seem pretty flat with the somewhat lesser lights (just mentioning those in the title role this time) such as Mirella Freni, Angela Gheorghiu, or Diana Soviero, especially if there is a lack of truly epic tragic style among such second tier singers in this role. However, despite that fact, "Adrianna" is a truly great theatrical score and deserves all the love that audiences shower upon it. @@bbailey7818
I love the Respighi Roman Trilogy and have numerous recordings of all three but the Reiner is the one I love the most (and I have it in three different versions). It's a shame he never recorded "Roman Festivals". (My most recent purchase of all three is one that has been highly praised in the UK but I consider it to be grossly overrated and the SACD recording leaves a lot to be desired too).
Not the John Wilson recording on Chandos by any chance? If so I totally agree with your assessment. A very highly overrated account and what happened to the tam tams in the last movement of Feste Romane!
Yes, the very one. He rushes through "Roman Festivals" as if there were no tomorrow and while the Fountains and Pines are better, they're no match for the Reiner. Through my equipment, the end of The Pines lacks clarity with the tam-tam hardly audible, while its stunning on the Living Stereo.
First time I heard it was the Sargent LSO version on Everest coupled with Fountains (via a World Record Club issue). I was 12. I immediately took to it and still like that old version. Great stereo sound for its time. Roman Festivals? Not for me.
Sir Maldolm Sargent was a wonderful conductor. He could play the heck out of the great centrepieces of the standard repertory, like "The Planets" (love that LP!), Respighi's tone poems, and the great oratorios? he was the very best of all in those (think: Mendelssohn's "Elijah", Handel's "Messiah" and "Judas Macchabeus", just for starters), and so on. I wish that I had been able to see him conduct live more often than I was able to do. I revere him.
I had a hard time with Gershwin's Cuban Overture. I first heard it on the Fieldler/Pops legendary RCA recording that featured the Concerto in F. It seemed to me that Fiedler did not have a good grip on the wild rhythms and the transition to the languid midsection sounded awkward. Listening to other recordings made me feel that handling those transitions, against the forward percussion ensemble, was difficult for many talented conductors. Only Wayne Marshall's recording sold me after many tries with Gershwin specialists.
I'll tell the opposite story. I was 15 & at band camp (!). One morning, one of the trombonists was in the field playing the trombone part along with a recording he had blasting on a boombox. For the first minute or so I didn't pay much attention. But as the music went along, it became more & more amazing. I ran out & asked him what it was. He stopped just long enough to say, "The Pines of the Appian Way from The Pines of Rome by Ottorino Respighi." He then finished off the climax. I was immediately hooked.
I had a similar experience with a large box set of Readers Digest called ''Hymn to Nature''. I had read a book by a French mountaineer who said that during his mountain expeditions he sometimes always had it in mind. 'Alpensinfonie by Richard Strauss. A short time later they broadcast this work on the radio, I don't know by which interpreter, and frankly it didn't touch me. It must be said that apart from 2001, the work of Richard Strauss m , was rather unknown at 13.....when I received the big Readers Digest box set there was the version by Rudolf Kempe and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra.....I listened to it and that was it. the revelation....! I literally fell in love with this work which it must be said was grandiose in my opinion....of course when we are young and we want to travel the works which make us discover other earthly places take us towards other skies....
I had a similar experience with Berlioz. For years, I resisted him. I lived near Manchester (England) and had a season ticket for the Halle Orch. Concerts, then (late 1970s/early 1980s), were always: Overture, Concerto, Interval, Symphony. Often the Overture would be The Corsair, or Roman Carnival or the Symphony would be The "Fantastique". I would sit through these politely but never thought much of them. Why not? They were not German? They were not Russian? I don't really know! Then one day Berlioz clicked into place in my mind. I cannot recall what precipitated this conversion, but suddenly, I "got" Berlioz. Overtures that I had listened to a hundred times before, suddenly took on a whole new meaning. I got to know the major works and today, my love for the music of Berlioz is intense. This culminated in the concert performance, over two nights, of Les Troyennes, at London's Barbican, conducted by the late Sir Colin Davis, a few years ago. This was one of the great experiences of my life. I also believe that "Benvenuto Cellini" and "Beatrice and Benedict" are much underrated masterpieces. I believe that Berlioz invented nineteenth century romanticism, being a seminal influence on Wagner and Liszt.
My late brother LOVED the "Pines"..first 3 recordings we had--in order: Ormandy (later 50's--poor), Toscanini (much better) Reiner (much better yet, and in many ways still unmatched). The Kempe recording only rated an "OK" from him. I have the Kempe coupled on a single Chesky Cd with the WONDERFUL..even stunning...Feste Romane and Fountains, with Massimo Freccia and the Philharmonia, recorded in 1968 but ALSO released as part of one of those big Reader's Digest/RCA boxes ("Music for a Wine-drenched Evening"..or something like that). LR
I first heard POR on TV. Zubin Mehta had a concert on NBC in the 1970s and, well, that build-up at the end blew me away.
Dave brings so much joy to us all. I mean, I was breaking my head about this. Even asked a priest for help. Nah, not Reiner. But yes, Toscanini. It all comes back to me. The music blasting through the old class room and through an open windown on to the near to empty courtyard. Everything else quiet as if everything else was really trying to hear every sound of it and thus imagining being there. Like Dave said once, Toscanini knew the composer, the work, the country and its people. Gloriously loud but meticulous Toscanni with the NBC Symphony following his lead 🙂
Despite the older, mono recording I first heard these pieces on Victrola lp, Toscanini/NBC. I thought they were terrific. The Catacombs chant sounded like some familiar rock music of the late 60s. The evening section with the nightingale (I later learned the NBC Symphony used something called a "bird box" and not the Brunswick gramophone 78) and then the finale which could never be cranked up loud enough.
Later at a 2nd hand store, I found RCA's original lp issue which was a gorgeous book of essays and rotograveure photographs of the pines and fountains. Worth seeking out.
Both works are perfect summertime music.
The piece I didnt get for a long time was Debussy's Pelleas and Melisande. I had heard the Ansermet but it was Karajan's EMI that cracked open that door. Then hearing it live in person sealed the deal.
I didn't like Elliott Carter's Variations for Orchestra until I heard the recording by James Levine. He was the first conductor I heard who clearly brought out the two different tempos that are played simultaneously. For me this is the "fourth dimension" of the piece that makes it so exciting. Unfortunately, I think many of his works are so complex that no one could distangle them.
My first encounter with Resphigi was with the Reiner recordings. It was love at first hearing. What took me a long time to get was the music of the second Viennese school until I heard Dorati conducting this music on a Mercury LP. Then it all seemed to make sense to me. Now one of my favourite orchestral works is Schoenbergs Variations for Orchestra. So full of colour and incident.
This is a GREAT discussion topic! Pines of Rome was one of the many fantastic pieces of classical music that I got turned on to through drum corps. Star of Indiana played Pines of Rome in '91 and that arrangement really stuck with me- those brilliant, shimmering, lush late-Romantic sounds struck me like a bolt of lightning! I love how he used layered rhythms between sections to create those "clouds" of texture- a trick I've adapted in my own arranging to great effect!
I listen to The President's Own US Marine Band
I'll note a related phenomenon--not paying attention to a piece until you hear a certain performance. My example is Mozart's Wind Seranade, K. 388. I picked up the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra recording somewhere (International Preview?) and listened to it occasionally. Somehow, I catalogued it as light-weight Mozart ("It's just a divertemento, no?") Then, I attended a soiree put on by ING. The Concertgebouw was visting New York, and ING paid for some of the musicians to perform a private concert, playing the Mendelsohn Octet and K. 388. As I listened to the Mozart, I realized that I knew the piece, and that it was wonderful. I dug it out when I got home, and it's been in regular circulation ever since.
I made this mistake frequently with International Preview selections. I have an Esterhazy Quartet recording of two of Haydn's Opus 20 quartets, which I listened to a couple of times without much thought. Fifteen years later, I started listening to the Auryn Quartet recordings, I realized I really enjoyed Haydn's quartets. I dug out the Esterhazy CD, and it was terrific.
The first time I encountered the Pines of Rome was in my early 20s when I was playing clarinet in my university's concert band and we played an arrangement of it. It was by far the most challenging ensemble piece I had to play in those days. Even my humble 3rd clarinet part had a tricky obligato section that could potentially make or break the oboe solo that came after. Everybody had to be really focused the whole time. Amazing piece. I love it ever since. My work-I-just-didn't-get-until-I-heard-the-version-by is Schubert's 9th Symphony. I found it so boring and repetitive but then one night at a concert by the Montreal Symphony Orchestra, Kent Nagano made me see the light, and now it's one of my favourite symphonies.
I first heard the Pines and Fountains when my brother assembled a simple hi-fi setup and started buying classical LPs - he was a high school senior, I was 9, it was 1954 and the Respighi was Toscanini in the gatefold album. The Pines of the Appian Way gave me major goosebumps, just like Chopin's Military Polonaise had been doing, and when the full orchestra got the big tune in Tubby the Tuba. Goosebumps is what first got me into classical music. Several years ago a friend who knew I was mainly into classical music and who could enjoy some here and there himself asked me what I pictured when I listened to it. He was a bit surprised when I said, I didn't picture anything. What am thinking about then, he asked. I said I just followed where the music was going. I suppose it would have been more accurate to say I was having the music take me on an emotional journey - taking me through feelings like excitement, or urgency, or exhilaration, or sadness, or anticipation, or yearning, or, or, or… - whatever it had up its sleeve and however it connected it together.
I got the Reiner/CSO RCA "Living Stereo" recording when I was still in grade school. Even now, others still don't quite measure up.
I didn't really enjoy it until I heard Muti's impressive Philadelphia rendering, and even then it's still not a favorite, but the work still gets played on the radio a lot so I end up hearing it anyway, lol. The station just a few days ago played that recent recording that Dave reviewed, which was good timing. Sorry I can't remember the name of the conductor; Italian orch I think.
@@OuterGalaxyLounge I've heard a fair number of really good ones, including the Muti/TPO. It's a matter of personal preference, of course, but the Reiner/CSO remains my clear favorite.
I thought Vaughan Williams's Symphony #5 was a deadly bore, and I owned the Boult/EMI recording. Then i heard Previn/LSO, and the light bulb came on!
I'm with you there. I'm not visual, in fact I find my eyes distracting when listening to music. That's why I prefer to close them when listening and create my own thoughts and images. My introduction to Respighi was Toscanini's Mono LP. Another great performance.
Interesting story! I found this piece while searching music for my own video projects. I could easily hear Pines in some film because it's so depicting. One can hear little Ennio Morricone in the trumpet solo in the second movement. I find it great since it's almost like a film theme by Elmer Bernstein Jerome Moross.
I really don’t know how this will be received, but here goes: I did not understand the appeal of Brahms’ German Requiem until I heard the chamber arrangement premiered by David Hill and the Yale Schola Cantorum on Hyperion. That recording revealed the textures of the music in ways I’d never been able to distinguish clearly in the full orchestra.
The first time I encountered the Pines of Rome was in my early teens when I was visiting the house of my parent's friends. they had the stereo Ormandy Pines and Fountains on Columbia records. The cover intrigued me as it had a photo of a fountain inserted in a photo of a pine tree. I asked if i could listen to their stereo and was given permission but only at a low volume. Nevertheless i was wowed that first time. I admit i didn't like the first movement but when that chant from the catacombs came up - i loved it instantly. i have always been intrigued by photos of the catacombs in Rome so naturally that movement (section) cinched it for me. and then the final march of the Roman legions - i thought of the movie Spartacus and i decided then and there to purchase a copy....but it was with Bernstein.
Richard Shahinian at his booth at Chicago CES introduced me to the concept of “Receptors“ vis-à-vis classical music. At your first encounter with “Pines”, you simply didn’t have the Receptors for that music. A year later(and of course a 14-year-old person is very different physiologically and mentally from a 13 year old), given the context (your comfort with late romantic, all- stops-out big orchestra stuff via “Don Juan“), you had the Receptors, and that was that!
I think I had a similar experience with Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade. The first recording I ever got of it was by Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra. It didn't make a big impact on me at first, until Fritz Reiner and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra rode to the rescue!
Another work which I had a meh experience with for a while was Shostakovich's Leningrad Symphony. The first recording I ever bought of it was Yuri Temirkanov and the St. Petersburg Philharmonic. Although I listened to it a few times, it didn't quite make a big impact on me. But later, I bought the recording by Leonard Bernstein and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and then... WOW!
It was the repetitiousness of Sheherezade that first struck me. I felt it would have been better at half the length. Not sure I don't still feel that way but now I can sit back and enjoy it all.
I haven't done a survey of other versions but I have heard a few and I can say that this Kempe version you mention really is a thriller. Loved it!
I’m still waiting for my moment with Schumann’s piano concerto. I love Schumann, but that work just hasn’t clicked yet. I’ll just have to keep on listening!
For me it was Mahler 3. I think it was the length and that the recordings I'd heard, as well as a live performance, moved at glacial paces. It was difficult to find time to listen to it all in one sitting. When I heard Kubelik's earlier version the tempo was relatively quick and seemed more exciting, and now it's one of my favorites.
I do have a "Pines of Rome" story that I'd nearly forgotten -- but I remember it now as if it were last week... My older brother bought about 3 or 4 classical LP's (for 99-cents each?) and these were my introduction to classical music. One was Sir Malcolm Sargent conducting The Pines & Fountains of Rome. (One was Beethoven's 9th, the other Saint-Saens Symphony No. 3). Because there were so few of them, I got to know them very well. The Fountains of Rome was a total bore to me, meaningless mush, but occasionally I would hear "side two" of The Pines of Rome. I must have been 7 or 8 years old, based on vividly recalling exactly how tall I was, with regard to our Stereophonic record player and the window. It was a bright summer day and I happened to be standing directly in front of the speakers when ""La fontana del Tritone al mattino"" (The Triton Fountain at Morning) began playing: 4 Horns in unison, high screeching strings tremolo backed up by a piccolo trilling a minor 2nd -- none of which I could have told you at the time... If I could count on three fingers the most frightening moments of my life, this was one of them. I was frozen in place, a paralysis of fear, unable to move -- praying that it would end -- approximately 30 seconds of absolute terror. Funny thing, it was the brightest summer day you could possibly imagine -- it's not like I stumbled into a bed of snakes in a haunted house. I was so relieved when the music became friendlier that I felt like the heavens had responded with a miracle. At the time I didn't think it was funny at all but looking back on it -- wow. Just from hearing a piece of music. I'll never forget it.
You 'age' into some composers, some music - though I enjoyed Bruckner in my twenties, I thought the 5th symphony an utter yawn. Listened to it twenty years later and the scales(?!) fell from my ears. Something to do with gaining patience.
I'm loving this series! Personally I'd love to know which pieces you still feel you don't quite get.
Somehow I never heard it or of Respighi at all until it was featured in Fantasia 2000, but I liked it then.
I loved The Pines of Rome from the first time I heard it. The recording was by the Czech Philharmonic conducted by Antonio Pedrotti. The orchestral sound was new and thrilling and the tone of the clarinet soloist very special.
..and the Brass and TAM-TAM in the finale of that recording is spectacular. LR
What springs to mind is the first Act of Tristan und Isolde. I was dutifully listening to the "reference" recording led by Furtwangler, with Kirsten Flagstad, and despite my world being rocked by the second and third acts, I simply could not find enjoyment in the seemingly formless expanse of declamatory singing by Isolde. It certainly didn't help that Flagstad's voice sounded matronly. The big revelation arrived when I heard the Carlos Kleiber recording. Immediately, everything came into focus. Besides the superior sonics, there was music that really moved, and the shape of the drama was much clearer. The sailors' music had real verve and pep! That was a particular discovery that left me annoyed with Furtwangler.
A couple of works I didn't get until I heard a particular performance. I didn't get Beethoven's "Missa Solemnis" until I heard the galvanic 1937 recording of the first three movements as broadcast by the Cincinnati Symphony under Eugene Goossens, with Kirsten Flagstad as the soprano soloist. What an energy rush! I also didn't get Verdi's opera. "Aïda" until a late-1970's Met broadcast with soprano Gilda Cruz-Romo in the title role. Her power and authority really made the opera come alive for me!
Right! One of my first classical music experiences was Beethoven’s Ninth with Toscanini/NBC. So when riffling through LPs at my high school music library I came across the Missa Solemnis, I figured: same orchestra, same chorus, same conductor, same composer. So I tried it out. And yes, the insane energy and fantastic power at the “big moments” sounded just like the Ninth Symphony. Love at first hearing.! I guess a lot of folks don’t have the Receptors for it when they first encounter this piece and so it puts them off.
I didn't get Scharwenka until I heard Earl Wild. It was like a revelation. Well, to me
Three works I've NEVER got whoever is conducting/playing them are Till Eulenspiegel, The Sorcerer's Apprentice and Night On A Bare Mountain - I know, but there you go! The Pines of Rome however had me hooked from day one - beautiful tunes, fantastic orchestration and marvellous aural imagery. Incidentally Dave, be careful when the passage with the nightingale occurs because Finster and Mildred might start clawing at your speakers, little darlings that they are! 😊
That’s really interesting! Maybe it’s because those first three pieces follow a narrative really closely (or at least some have been e.g. in Fantasia) whereas Pines is more of a musical painting. I wonder what your opinion on the Dvorak symphonic poems would be since they follow a narrative very closely in pretty much all of them.
@@orangemandarin7925 Hello, and thank you for the reply. In the case of the three "unfathomable" works cited, I think it's more to do with the thematic material on display - I just don't find it terribly engrossing in all three cases. For sure, Strauss, Dukas and Mussorgsky ensure that the narratives of each of their chosen tales are successfully and vividly followed in musical terms - and this I can appreciate - but the actual thematic material is quite mundane in my opinion. Pines could quite easily have a narrative to follow with the music Respighi provides, and my positive emotional response to it as such would correspond to the response I have for the piece being, as you say, "more of a musical painting". The Dvorak symphonic poems are adorable works because of their special brand of Dvorakian lyricism married to moments of highly charged dramatic involvement. The fact that they follow the various narratives so vividly is another aspect of their great success. As for Fantasia, I can't remember ever having watched the film, to be honest. Perhaps I should give it a try. And so to summarise - I probably do "get" the three "unfathomable" works, but only to a point, and not enough to enjoy them as wholly successful listening experiences.All the best and sorry for the essay!
I had a similar experience with Berg. I saw Wozzeck during high school and thought it was just strange. Then some time during college, I came across the Renee Fleming performance of the Altenberg Lieder with Abbado at the Lucerne Festival, and it piqued my interest. As I’m an Italian opera person, I am also waiting for that aha moment with Fedora. I’ve tried it once or twice over the years, and I just don’t get it.
Hard to believe the Kempe/RPO recording brought you to your senses!! I discovered Pines very early on through Reiner, Munch, and Maazel.
I was a callow youth.
@@DavesClassicalGuide LOL.
Curiously enough (since you mentioned the work) I had a similar experience, albeit at an earlier age, with the 1812 Overture. It happened at primary school and I was probably only about eight or nine when I'd won some kind of class competition - nothing serious but a quiz or something. Anyway, my prize was to choose a piece of music from the box of records available. And while my teacher obviously wanted me to pick John Lennon's "Imagine" (which I'd never heard of either), I was far more drawn by the cover of the 1812 and probably just by the concept of music with only a number as its title. So my choice was played to the class and it was basically horrible. The music sounded loud, totally incoherent, didn't seem to have any tunes in it at all and just went on and on interminably! Worse still, the whole sorry affair was basically my fault. But, and long story, short: I got over it!
I didn't get the Symphonie Fantastique the first time I heard it.
The first recording I heard was Leonard Bernstein which was pretty magical, but I think my favorite is the Reiner! (Holy smokes I lied! I forgot that my first hearing of this was from Fantasia 2000! And I loved it. I know you said you aren't visual, but this was an interesting way to first hear this piece! )
Your first hearing of Pines/Fountains must have caught you in a bad moment, because Reiner's is indeed a fabulous version! It happened to me with Puccini when I was 13.The first Puccini Opera I heard was TOSCA and loved it. The second was TURANDOT and I fell head over hills for it. And then BOHÈME... needless to say I didn't get it at all until much, much later.
A work that I didn't fully appreciate until I heard the version by...
Cesar Franck's Symphony in D minor.
Even though I always suspected that this was an impressive symphony, most performances of it sounded awkward and clunky to me. This led me to conclude that perhaps the problem was with the work itself. Then, one day, I listened to a performance conducted by Guido Cantelli and found myself sitting on the edge of my seat. What a revelation! This music that I once considered stodgy now had momentum and excitement. Which goes to prove that sometimes the problem can be with the performance and not the listener.
That being said, I'm pretty confident that no performance by anyone will ever make Richard Strauss sound exciting to me.
I completely agree about this symphony. Sometimes I listen to it and think it's a fantastic work; other times that it's one of the most boring symphonies ever written. Manfred Honeck and his Pittsburg orchestra did an excellent Richard Strauss disc - Honeck himself wrote the extensive booklet notes that explain much about how the music sounds - might that help?
For a long time I did not really like Dvorak (I had not heard many works) and I did not understand why Nikolaus Harnoncourt was seen as such an interesting conductor. Then I heard Harnoncourt’s recording of Dvorak’s ninth symphony. Suddenly I liked that work and Harnoncourt soon became one of my favourite conductors.
I've had experiences like that. One entails the opera, "Adrianna Lecouvreur", by Francesco Cilèa, which is about as approachable and appealing a melodious verismo opera can be. I had read about it someplace, a critic who poo-pooed its charms and dumped distain upon it and its composer. Tebaldi performed it in performaces that were broadcast two seasons at the Metropolitan Opera, both of them broadcast by Texaco on its Saturday live broadcasts from the Metropolitan Opera, New York CIty. The first broadcast sort of confirmed, in my mind, what that critic (and others like he) had to say about the work. However, Tebaldi et alia were making a pretty good case for the work in that sumptuous performance, so I was a bit mystified. Then, when it came back in the other Met season, I reacted more positively to the music, beginning to wonder what sort of Kool-Aid the critic had been drinking. Then, I attended a live performance of the same opera by the Metropolitan Opera on tour, in Boston. O.M.G., that turned out, the great production and superb costumes and all the rest certainly helping, to be one of the greatest evenings that I ever spent in an opera house. Tebaldi in the title role, along with Franco Corelli as Maurizio, were in glorious form, acting with terrific conviction as well as sheer vocal splendour. I was so moved by their work in the last act of the opera that I had to run out of the venue and go down the alley behind it, and weep profusely, in order not to make a spectacle of myself. I still dealy cherish this opera and other works by Cilèa. Total about-face, eh?
It takes singers like that to really put AL across. I vividly recall hearing the 1969 broadcast of it, following the libretto and thought it was marvelous. Previously, they'd broadcast Peter Grimes and Wozzeck. I thought they were great, too, though Wozzeck only kicked in after the first 15 minutes or so until after I got used to the idiom.
Yes, you are right about that. "Adrianna Lecouvreur" is a real star vehicle. It is incredibly potent with truly great stars like Renata Tebaldi, Magda Oliveiro, Franco Corelli, Marcella Pobbè, Giulietta Simionato, Franco Corelli, and a few lucky others in the three principal roles, but it can seem pretty flat with the somewhat lesser lights (just mentioning those in the title role this time) such as Mirella Freni, Angela Gheorghiu, or Diana Soviero, especially if there is a lack of truly epic tragic style among such second tier singers in this role. However, despite that fact, "Adrianna" is a truly great theatrical score and deserves all the love that audiences shower upon it. @@bbailey7818
Reader's Digest published an inordinate amount of great recordings for very little money
I love the Respighi Roman Trilogy and have numerous recordings of all three but the Reiner is the one I love the most (and I have it in three different versions). It's a shame he never recorded "Roman Festivals". (My most recent purchase of all three is one that has been highly praised in the UK but I consider it to be grossly overrated and the SACD recording leaves a lot to be desired too).
Not the John Wilson recording on Chandos by any chance? If so I totally agree with your assessment. A very highly overrated account and what happened to the tam tams in the last movement of Feste Romane!
Yes, the very one. He rushes through "Roman Festivals" as if there were no tomorrow and while the Fountains and Pines are better, they're no match for the Reiner. Through my equipment, the end of The Pines lacks clarity with the tam-tam hardly audible, while its stunning on the Living Stereo.
First time I heard it was the Sargent LSO version on Everest coupled with Fountains (via a World Record Club issue). I was 12. I immediately took to it and still like that old version. Great stereo sound for its time. Roman Festivals? Not for me.
Sir Maldolm Sargent was a wonderful conductor. He could play the heck out of the great centrepieces of the standard repertory, like "The Planets" (love that LP!), Respighi's tone poems, and the great oratorios? he was the very best of all in those (think: Mendelssohn's "Elijah", Handel's "Messiah" and "Judas Macchabeus", just for starters), and so on. I wish that I had been able to see him conduct live more often than I was able to do. I revere him.
Dave, are there specific works that, after performing them, you "got" them or changed your opinion about them?
I didn't get MAHLER until I heard Bernstein do it!!!
I had a hard time with Gershwin's Cuban Overture. I first heard it on the Fieldler/Pops legendary RCA recording that featured the Concerto in F. It seemed to me that Fiedler did not have a good grip on the wild rhythms and the transition to the languid midsection sounded awkward. Listening to other recordings made me feel that handling those transitions, against the forward percussion ensemble, was difficult for many talented conductors. Only Wayne Marshall's recording sold me after many tries with Gershwin specialists.