Repertoire: The BEST Respighi Pines of Rome
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2020
- One of the great orchestral blockbusters, and a challenge to the recording engineers, you may be surprised by which verions still sound the best, even in this day and age.
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There’s a story that when Neeme Järvi did this piece once with the Detroit Symphony, the prerecorded bird sound didn’t play in the 3rd movement. So Neeme started whistling like a bird and encouraged the other musicians to do it too.
Fantastic story!
True story I heard from a member of the Boston Symphony flute section in the mid-'70s: on their first tour of China, _Pines_ was on the program and, at one of their stops, the cassette tape of the nightingale went missing. The local orchestra informed them they themselves didn’t have a copy, but did have a set of bird calls, and so the percussion section was tasked with "sounding like birds" for the relevant movement. All went well, except for the moment where, as she put it, "apparently a duck flew over the scene." I somehow doubt Respighi imagined that music accompanied by loud quacking…
James David Walley gorgeous!
Many moons ago (50!) I was a member of the newly formed Atlanta Symphony Youth Orchestra. We loved even rehearsing this piece because at the end of Pines the sound reverberated throughout the empty Symphony Hall. Such a thrilling piece to perform and listen to!
Also, there are videos on RUclips (and DVD) where André Rieu performed the 4th Movement of Pines with 400 extra brass players. (They were in the region for a brass band competition.)
One video is in a stadium in Amsterdam and one is on the Vrijthof square in the centre of Maastricht, Netherlands. There were enough brass players to encircle a large section of the audience. The videos are fun but I’m sure nothing like being there, surrounded by sound.
There is something special in my view about the 1952 televised Toscanini performance in Black and White (available on RUclips), with poor sound quality, and the Orchestra’s monochromatic demographics notwithstanding, that sets it apart from all the amazing recordings featured and deservedly praised in the video; my favorite of those being, for what it’s worth, the Reiner LP which is truly a blockbuster. The Toscanini video just seems a very special historical moment.
Thanks for a great chat. This piece has a strong sentimental attachment for me. Back in 1970 I tuned in to watch the Young Peoples Concert program entitled "The Anatomy of a Symphony Orchestra." Bernstein chose Respighi's "Pini de Roma" to demonstrate the unique character of the orchestra sections and how they contribute to realization of an orchestral performance. As he went through the work I became increasingly fascinated by Respighi's conception and Bernstein's discussion. Bernstein and the NYPO concluded the program by performing the entire piece, and I was on the edge of my chair. From that day I started what has become a passionate 50+ years of record collecting, discovery, and , above all, listening to various composers, genres, and ensembles. I have recordings of Pines by Bernstein, Reiner, Kempe, Ormandy II, Muti, Pappano, Sinopoli, Munch, and Gatti. Reiner is hands down my favorite. BTW Ormandy actually left three recordings of Pines: two for CBS/Sony, in 1958 and 1968 (Ormandy II), and one for RCA . I've heard all three; the 1968 recording was my first recording of Pines, and it sounded very good on LP (it was part of the "Fabulous Philadelphians Sound Series"), not as good on CD. Any thoughts on Munch (it's highly regarded by some, not sure why)?
Your description of the Reiner CSO recording is right on the money. I remember listening to it on the radio 50 years ago as a teenager and ran out to buy the LP, which I still have and treasure. I then bought it again when it came out on CD. I prefer still listening to the LP. In any event, it was impossible when you closed your eyes and listened to Pines not to imagine being on the Appian Way, at the Fountains or in the Borghese Gardens. Just a sumptuous recording of the work of a magician, which is really brought home when actually being in Rome and experiencing the sensation of that not being your first visit.
When I was in college (84-88) all the music students owned those Dallas recordings because they fit our student budget...and they were all well done.
I recently got the chandos box of all the music and am VERY happy with it👍
Analogue Productions has reissued an entire series of Living Stereos on vinyl and SACD so I grabbed the Reiner Pines of Rome. A masterpiece and OMG the vinyl is perfect and it sounds like it was recorded yesterday. Fantastic.
Kempe version is in the Naxos Library. Great stuff.
Well my $0.02 is a performance I stumbled into: Constantin Silvestri with his Bournemouth band, live. It's a BBC disk coupled with Tchaikovsky's Manfred. I have several Pines, but when I found this one the others (including Reiner) started collecting dust. In the final march Silvestri generates almost overwhelming power and excitement; he's backed up by the disc's great recorded sound which captures both range (that organ! the brass!) and detail. truly a treasurable performance that ought to be better known.
Reiner on Living Stereo - How did they get that sound? 3 mics, Dave, the famous RCA ring with their proprietary equipment. Astonishing indeed! I love the sound of the Sao Paulo orchestra recording, and the performance is excellent as you say, but bottom line for me, I prefer the Reiner performance.
Ever since I first heard it, my favorite performance of Pines of Rome is still Frankfurt Radio Symphony conducted by Georges Prêtre in 2004. The Appian Way movement is SO masterfully performed there.
Ah, I have that Reiner CD! Yes, it’s fantastic, even after all this time!
The Reiner La Mer is fabulous as you say. Again, I love the Dorati Mercury. Awesome, at least on the vinyl.
The Toledo Symphony has something of a tradition with this work: they invite a local drum-and-bugle corps (The Toledo Glassmen, c. 70 members I think) to be the ghostly Roman army: they quietly march into the concert hall, standing in all the aisles and around the perimeter, and they join the orchestra for the last movement. It is QUITE an experience!
I agree, Reiner is the standout, but LSO/Kertesz on Decca is also terrific with a beautiful Birds Suite thrown in.
Totally agree on the Buffalo / Falletta version of Pines of Rome. I've heard a number of versions, not all (just because there are _so many)_ but it has the _shiniest_ Pines of the Appian Way I've heard.
I don't think you have ever been more right about anything. I've heard many good ones, but the Reiner/CSO recording is in a class by itself. Absolutely otherworldly.
A favorite of mine: James DePreist and the Oregon Symphony. Brilliant.
The story about the concert was so funny 🤣🤣
OMG! I forgot about absolute stunner! Antonio Pedrotti with Czech Philharmonic Orchestra /1971/ in glorious, transparent and powerful performance :-)
I agree. I love the Pedrotti recording. He seems to use some euphoniums (or tenor tubas) in the buccini parts (the parts are labeled 2 soprano, 2 tenor, and 2 bass, so the choice of instruments is up to the conductor) which makes a wall of sound when they enter in the Appian Way movement. Very exciting.
David that is such a terrific yarn about your performance of The Pines - truly hilarious, thanks - I shall recycle that!
Hi David - love your videos. I got a copy of the Bourgeois recording by signing up to be on a mailing list for Marine Band recordings many years ago. There are a whole lot of transcriptions that are just fabulous. I always think of those when I see the band playing Hail to the Chief for the President another time another time on TV.
Fabulous review! Will listen to some recordings tomorrow!
I used to play a brass band arrangement by Howard Snell of the ‘March’ years ago, I think he arranged the whole suite plus Fountains. Terrific stuff. Thanks for a great chat!
Great choice! I first heard the Reiner on a 1/2 speed mastered LP issue from around 1980. CD in the complete Reiner/Chicago reissue is even better!
Thank you as always for your great & informative reviews including this one! And I'm glad your 2-footed & 4-footed family are enjoying your new home! I've finally bought some CDs of Respighi. I've been hesitant because his works were often split (like Pines of Rome only or only 2 Ancient Airs...). Finally took a risk & bought Toscanini's Roman Trilogy on your recommendation, also 2-CD set with Dorati, and another 2-CD set with Geoffrey Simon, which has the Church Windows & Metamorphoseon. The Toscanini I know won't regret, and I hear Dorati also has some great performances, and I hope for the best on the Simon performances.
Your story about your community orchestra and the organ that had no brakes is hilarious. The things that can go wrong in concerts- especially with the beast that never breathes - could fill a dozen books. Of course Toscanini premiered all three Romans and had Respighi there to discuss the results, ergo that's the gold standard from which all young conductors should start their study. And yes, Feste maxed out RCA's contemporary equipment.
So glad I found your channel. I love music reviews, and you are not only insightful, you are also very entertaining. Well, not so much the singing, which is about as good as mine.
Welcome aboard! You should hear my mother.
9:15 that one is just INCREDIBLE! Amazing! I'm not a big fan of the Pines in that record, but the Feste Romane.... OMG!!! Brilliant, absolutely brilliant!!! Another World
What an amazing story of that performance!!! I so wish I had been there. I play in a community orchestra in central Maryland. We've played Fountains. Hoping to do Feste some day.
You'll need at least 9 percussionists--not easy to find--and some guy to play the mandolin (but, interestingly, no harps).
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes. When I made the transcription for the Marine Band, one of our trumpet players made a quick study of the mandolin. I think he did pretty well.
Agreed, the Reiner is "da Bomb" of recorded performances, and the Living Stereo reissue is a huge improvement in sound quality over the one from the 80s coupled with Mussorgsky's "Pictures."
I live in the Washington, D.C. area where all the military bands are based and I believe "The President's Own" (and any other military ensemble) will send you a disc of theirs upon request, free of charge!
Thank you. That's very good to know!
Nobody has much mentioned Pappano with Santa Cecilia: I listened to it and to Muti. Muti is marvellously played and some of the percussion is not always audible with Pappano. But Pappano is so MUSICAL: the last section of Fountains, with rubato unmatched by anyone, the menacing "tread" in the last section of Pines, the solo clarinet in the slow lyrical section. A superb recording.
I'm sorry, no. This isn't at all special: www.classicstoday.com/review/review-14254/?search=1
I found the Marine Band version on Qobuz. I didn’t know it existed before your review and it indeed sounds terrific. Thanks!
Great!
Found it on Google Play as well
@@rsmickeymooproductions4877 I'm listening to it on Spotify - I like!
I know this will sound like heresy, but my "go to" recording of Rspighi's gorgeous Roman conical tribute has long been Antal Doráti's 1960 achievement with the then Minneapolis Symphony at the top of their game and accorded spectacular recorded sound in which one can hear every detail of Respighi's orchestration. Doráti finds the golden mean of tempi and provides seamless transitions from section to section, resulting in what I think is also the most musical Pines I've heard. I also like Stokowski's stereo recording with Toscanini's renamed orchestra, the "Symphony of the Air," although I think Doráti adopts better tempi. Sadly, both the Doráti and Stokowski renditions are largely overlooked or forgotten, all the attention going to Toscanini and Reiner (both superb, of course!) I also want to make mention of Giuseppe Sinopoli and the NY Philharmonic, fantastically played and exciting. This piece has fared very well on disc.
It would be great to have a review of the complete trilogy.
Reiner is fantastic however he wasn't my introduction to the work - that was Lorin Maazel with the Cleveland playing the whole triptych (originally on Decca but I have it on a fabulous MSFL LP pressing). To me that performance and the quality of recording is seriously impressive!
Maazel didn't do Fountains, did he? The Decca disc has Pines and Feste only.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Apologies you're absolutely correct. Just Pines & Feste...that will teach me just to go on my memory (which is getting failable these days). I went and had a look in the storage where I keep my LPs. Actually I also found a copy of Maazel's Cleveland Daphnis et Chloe I'd forgotten about!
PS Maazel did eventually record all three but with Pittsburgh on Sony didn't he?
@@curseofmillhaven1057 Yes, and they sound fantastic!
Thanks for the nudge. I bought the Maazel on download and I'm listening to it right now. Utterly sensational!
Dave, I really enjoyed your review. I tracked down the John Bourgeois Director's Choice wind performance.
Like yourself, I really enjoyed the clarity of sound and the excellent soloists throughout.
One great performance I didn't hear you emphasize: is the Munch on London Phase 4. It is tremendous,
especially the marvelous open air quality of the Pines of the Janiculum ending in a haunting nightingale
song that blends in and fades away beautifully. And in the great Appian Way finale, you can hear the fabulous pipe organ. GREAT PERFORMANCE!
Happy listening to you! Maybe you'll do a Church Windows review with the Archangel Michael and tam tam.
Thank you. The Munch Phase 4 is, I believe, rather vulgar and bloated, and I don't like the sonics at all.
My first live orch. experience was gearing Pines w Ormandy/ Philad. in San Bernardino on tour. I was 11. Magical experience. As cellist we played Pines at the Redlands Bowl with the speakers for the ' birds' in trees around the outdoor audience. Thank you, David, for your insight and enthusiasm! You get extra points for appreciating the poetry as well. Falletta! Wonderful interpretation.
You're quite welcome.
I like Fröhliche Werkstatt :*( Nice recommendations!
What's a great recording that actually plays the quintuplet figure at the end of the Appian Way? it's usually an eighth followed by triplets (which sounds just fine!) unless you're in the CSO under Reiner in which case the orchestra appears to be making up an entirely unique rhythm (also sounds great!)
I play in 3 community orchestras near London UK. In 2 of the orchestras I am the only viola. Beethoven 7 is too difficult in parts of the outer movements but the Eroica is great to play.
Winds can be too loud. Some pieces are better omitting strings. That President's Own band are terrific. They do Weill's Violin Concerto with a bandsman playing the solo violin part, on youtube.
I do buy cds. Love the reviews. I tend to love 20c German music that is not very commercial like Eisler.
David, great choices in a very entertaining video. My late brother and I discovered the Roman Trilogy via Ormandy's 1st Columbia version; man, what a sucky experience THAT was! But we soon acquired Toscanini and Reiner--so Ormandy was retired.
My brother collected EVERY available "Pines" from, say, 1965 to '85-- (he loved von Karajan/Philharmonia), but there was one REAL stand-out that totally floored both of us. You may recall Antonio Pedrotti's 1961 version of "Fountains" and "Feste" with the Czech Phil on the great old PARLIAMENT budget label (yea!!). The "Feste" was downright silly. But in 1971 Pedrotti recorded PINES, again with the Czech Phil, again for Supraphon. The first 3 Movements are only average, but THE FINALE is UNBELIEVABLE!! The astounding power of the overall sound is enhanced by the monstrous mid-range and lower BUCCINE--- AND the TAM-TAM (!)..among other things. Supraphon released all 3 tone poems on a single disc about 25 years ago. Definitely worth a listen, if you can find it.
I played cymbals and Tam-tam in Pines--'73 at Finney Chapel in Oberlin (now THAT'S some acoustics!!), and yes, the cymbals got swamped by the rest of the orchestra, no matter how hard I crashed 'em. The conductor of the orchestra told me of a Boston Symphony (I think..) performance where the recording of the Nightingale played back at a much SLOWER speed..like 16RPM on an old turntable, and the audience howled (shades of Tex Avery's classic "KING-SIZED CANARY" cartoon). But your story of the stubborn Organ and your "deflating" of the final chord really takes the cake..one of the funniest orchestral performance tales I've ever heard. LR
Hi Dave - Really looking forward to a review of the new Roman Trilogy recording by Robert Trevino conducting the Orchestra Sinfonica di Torino della RAI on Ondine. Just released today (Sept 1, 2023).Looks very promising🙂
I'm from Turin and I was in the hall concert last spring when they played the Trilogy. The performance was thrilling!!!
Someone else may have commented, but I found the marine band recording on Apple Music. Interestingly, Apple Music didn’t have Faletta, but RUclips music did.
Do tell me what u think about about Antonio Pappano's recording with the Orchestra dell' Accademia Nozionale de Santa Cecilia of the Roman Trillogy and Il Tramonto, also by Respighi.
Thanks for the Marine Band accolades. I assume it was the popular Duker transcription . Its a bear for the upper woodwinds since they are additionally playing all the string parts
Folks, I can verify that David isn't exaggerating his "Pines" experience at all. I was there - I played tuba. David literally walked over and unplugged the organ! For me: Reiner for "Pines" and Maazel/Cleveland for "Festivals". Most "Fountains" are equally good. I haven't heard JoAnn Falletta's trilogy (I like her a lot).
That was a fun day, wasn't it?
Falletta is excellent, outclassed only by Reiner, Tortelier, and Mata.
David where is Silvestri's live performance with the Bournemouth SO? It has to be one of the greatest, he had been with the orchestra for a while and it is a stupendous performance! It's available on BBC Legends coupled with Tchaikovsky's Manfred which only drawback is Silvestri himself playing the harmonium at the end (rather than the beefy Paris organ in his other recording), other than that it may be better than the Paris one. Other than that Sinopoli recording a fantastic set of the tone poems in New York for DG, as did Maazel in Cleveland for Decca.
Silvestri is very good, but not better than the others I mentioned. Sinopoli did not impress me aside from great brass playing, and Maazel is great is Feste but the Pines isn't on the same level IMHO.
Well of course you are entitled to your opinion 🙂
The excitement Silvestri whips up in the Pines of the Appian Way and the climaxes at the end are pretty special though... As is the raucous cheering afterwards!
@@joewebb1983 I'll grant you that--the BEST raucous cheering!
Thank you David. I'm a committed Respighian and I've dozens of recording of Pines of Rome. I've got the Tortelier's, which is stunning...but I also love Karajan with the Berliners on DG...an amazing sound in my humble opinion. But there's another which is great for me: Antonio Pedrotti (who was Respighi's pupil) and the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra on Supraphon...I love it and I think is among the best...what do you think about that?! Best regards from Italy
Sorry, Pedrotti has never impressed me, much as I love the sound of the Czech Phil.
Are the birds indicated in the score? Just curious.
Pittsburgh/Maazel? I love Murray Crewe on the bass trombone in the first movement.
Also, the Pines is the piece used to illustrate the anatomy of an orchestra from Lenny’s 1970 Young People Concert.
I saw the same YPC back in 1970. See above.
Got it (Reiner) in CD and SACD version so I am serious record collector to the power of 2 😉I also like definitive sleeper ....Ansermet (yes Ansermet !) I don’t know if you ever heard that-probably yes
Ansermet is often a sleeper--largely because you never knew what you were going to get with the orchestra, but he was a very good conductor of big, splashy orchestral works like this.
David Hurwitz True indeed!
Great talk!
The one I listened to first to get a hold of the piece was with Marriner and the Academy of St. Martin in the fields in Philips, which contains the whole trilogy. It's at some points a little tedious, and the cymbals at the end of the festivals are a little to quiet, but I still hear it first, whenever I want to hear the complete trilogy.
What do you think about it?
I think you need to do whatever is necessary to forget about it. It's a dreadful disc, really possibly the worst version of the trilogy ever. Sorry to say it, but I'm not kidding.
@@DavesClassicalGuide thanks for the feedback. Which of the disks that contain the whole thing would you get? You mentioned quiet many in the video and I really have trouble deciding which one to get aside from the Toscanini one which hast already found its place in my collection.
@@derPapierschredder Muti, Ozawa, Falletta...take your pick!
I've always enjoyed the Dutoit recording with Montreal. Very well played and sounds good, but it has some issues (notably use of trumpets instead of buccini). To say nothing of whether one should recommend anything done by Dutoit...
What do you think of the new Trilogy on Chandos with John Wilson and the Sinfonia of London?
Check out my review on ClassicsToday.com.
Could you make a video on Italian symphonic music? I know there is very little but it would be nice to know your view on it and what recordings you recommend.
I have already done some--check out Riccardo Muti videos and this one: ruclips.net/video/1-oNROU8p54/видео.html
I've also done Respighi, and lots more to come.
@@DavesClassicalGuide amazing!
Hi David, I'm curious if you will be reviewing fritz reiner's complete columnia recordings with the PSO. Cheers
I'm thinking about it.
@@DavesClassicalGuideI I purchased this and I'm looking forward to these recordings as reiner is a favorite of mine. Cheers
I totally agree with your best pick (Reiner), but I also thought Ozawa/BSO deserved at least a mention.
I did, in connection with the whole trilogy.
Hi David. I agree with your Karajan / Philharmonia Orchestra recommendation. It's excellent, as is to be expected from a Walter Legge produced recording.
The couplings are a strange choice for Respighi. Suppe and Offenbach 🤔. Doesn't sound very Italian or appropriate.
I'm sure Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture has the Orchestra recorded in a mono mix, even if the bells and cannons are mixed in stereo over the mono instruments. It sounds strange and a bit wrong from an audio perspective. An example of a recording made before the Kingsway Hall could be equipped with a stereo mixing desk. There's nothing in the CD notes to suggest this but my ears don't deceive me that easily. When the Mendelssohn Hebredies Overture starts the difference in audio quality is starkly obvious, Berlin Phil or no Berlin Phil.
Great choices, and of course Reiner is nonpareil. The recording I grew up on is the Stokowski and The "Symphony of the Air" (Toscanini's orchestra); do you know it? It still sounds great to me!
Doesn't everyone? Hehe.
Dave l agree with you about Reiner, Muti and Mata being at or near the top. Mata in particular, what a vastly underrated conductor he was.
But l also agree with Snr Firpo that the Karajan/DG is very fine. It's just about the only one which does justice to the passage starting 5 after fig.21. Here Respighi has four of his "Buccine" play fff in unison, while the rest of the brass are only ff. With most recordings you would hardly know they are there, but with Karajan you get the blatant blare which I am sure Respighi wanted - he is invoking the ancient Roman instrument after all.
Which leads me to ask - do you know of any recording which actually respects Respighi's request for 6 flicorni (2 each soprano, tenor and bass)? According to Norman Del Mar's invaluable A Companion to the Orchestra, these are Italian band instruments roughly corresponding to the saxhorn range, sometimes brought in as supernumeraries (shades of Verdi's parts for banda). Del Mar says that the conventional instruments closest to flicorni would be flugelhorns or saxhorns, but to my ears the parts always seem to be played by trumpets and trombones.
That is my experience too.
I played the buccina part on Director's Choice.
I'm honored to know you!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Ditto. I used to love reading you in Fanfare.
Thanks for another great review! I have a band version with Frederick Fennell with the Tokyo Kosei Wind Ensemble and you really don't miss the strings at all! My sleeper is the Louis Lane Atlanta Symphony which is now out of print (link below). Not flashy, but extremely transparent and the Telarc recording's concert hall perspective means plenty of bass weight, and really solid organ and percussion in movement 2. The tam-tam crash at the climax of 2 is much clearer than in the Reiner.
ruclips.net/video/vFkqyxy6oUw/видео.html
jfddoc Heard Lane conduct this at an Atlanta Symphony concert. Boy, was the ending loud!!!
@@williamwhittle216 Nice!
Yep, Reiner. I thought DeWaart/S.F. Symphony (Philips) was a sleeper.
For me, its the kind of piece I only need 1 record of. I have Reiner on the Chesky label. That'll do me!
You mean Kempe?
@@DavesClassicalGuide Reiner CSO same as RCA but remastered by Chesky. The Paray SOUNDS fantastic. Live living presence. Like Telarc- the sound is more important than the performance
Just listened to the Tortelier version on Spotify : it sounded musically perfect to my ears, but the loudness is a bit lost in the Chandos acoustics and... the last chord is disappointingly too short and shy. What a shame !
Surprised you didn’t mention Ozawa/Boston.
If it were the best, I would have.
@David Hurwitz What are your criticisms on that one? I find the final march has the perfect feel and tempo and sonics are really good. I love how he doesn’t wait for the final chord, makes them play it as a rebound. Nobody else does that and I find it really fitting.
Reiner's was my introduction to this work and everything else that came along was a disappointment.
Try Kempe.
Great list, Dave. I want to add one newly found trilogy recordings with utmost clarity that stunned me by surprise, Antonio Pedrotti with CzPhO.