Seriously. And it is especially obvious when the music is played by great players, because Dvorak requires a surprising amount of virtuosity and red-blooded passion and a knack for his characteristic rusticisms. Some of the recent revelations for me have been in his chamber music, including the Piano Quartet No. 2 and Terzetto.
I just want to say a big thank for your dedication. Because, while you could simply go straight for the recordings and tell us "listen to this, listen to that", you always take the time to introduce us to the works you're going to talk about. It's very helpful for people like me who aren't familiar with this music (even people who are might learn new things). And you always do it with this lovely touch of humor, it really makes me want to learn more about these Tone Poems! Just something I wanted to spit out.
I love the way you tell us switftly and with so much humour the story of these tone poems, as by the way you do with operas. It reminds me of how George Bernard Shaw reported in a hilarious way some of the operas he was attending at the end of the 19th century (when the soprano is married with the baryton but is in love with the tenor, and of course dies at the end).
I recall saying awhile back on another thread Dvorak is incredibly underrated as a tone poet. I went through a, shall we say, interesting phase in my life where I listened to The Water Goblin almost every day. The only disc I actually own is Neumann and it is absolutely thrilling. I’d love to get my hands on the Koslar too. I’ve streamed the Jarvi and it is very good, but can’t quite measure up to Neumann. I’ll give the Kubelic a listen too. Many thanks from a commenty person who eagerly awaited this talk.
The Dvorak symphonic poems -- not just these Erban ones but all of the others including the "nature, life and love" trilogy and "My Homeland" -- are fantastic. I wish they appeared on concert programs more often than they do.
Thank you!!! Have been waiting for months for this video - and here it comes. 😌😁🤗 These tone poems show two facts: 1. Dvořák was a good tone architect, but, first of all, he was a tone magician. 2. Music, i.e. sounds without words, is so suitable for expressing so wide scale of feelings of humans, feelings almost inexpressible by what is visual: words or paintings. THANK YOU!!!😊😊
I am so grateful for your advocacy of Dvorak in these episodes. I have always loved the cello concerto and symphony #4, but after your episode on his piano concerto I have fallen in love with that piece! I have been waiting for a Dvorak talk to convey my thanks to you. Thanks! And thanks for this episode as well , even if, admittedly, the subject matter of these tone poems might not be my cup of tea :)
I have Harnencourt's interpretation of this music, I also have CDs of most of Dvorak's works. He really is a great composer, my very first introduction to classical music was in the 1960 when I was an exchange pupil in France, and the two boys in the family had a record player in the loft of the barn in Lyons-la-Foret, Normandy, which was their den, and they played Dvorak's New World Symphony. My ears were truly opened to a New World of music that never left me and has enriched my life ever since. I will always associate the New World Symphony with cider, because they had a cider orchard there and produced the best cider I've ever had the privilege to taste.
Thank you Mr. Hurwitz for another excellent video about this giant creative genius among the 19th century composers. About your Harnoncourt recommendation, I wish Warner would release someday a big (it would be huge indeed) Harnoncourt complete box.
Another excellent video David. Thank you. I recently got the Kuchar box after you recommended it in another talk and I’m looking forward to listening to these pieces.
For me, one of your most ear-opening talks. A collector of the backbone of Dvorak's orchestral works - symphonies and concerti - ends up with much of the rest as fillers and I thought I had just about all of his best stuff, but I'd completely missed the tone poems and was intrigued by your overview. The Harnoncourt hasn't been too difficult to chase down. Thanks.
I love the tone poems. But I can not listen to the "Noonday Witch." One night in 1996 I was waiting to pick up a friend in his driveway. The local classical station was playing it. Suddenly my car window was smashed and saw a masked man and gun on my head. The work still gives me the willies. "The Golden Spinning Wheel" is a masterpiece. Do the Symphonic Variations sometime!
Kalibala's Water Goblin and Wild Dove are so atmospheric, authentically Czech and dramatic. I urge anyone to investigate them, maybe on a streaming service if you cannot get a physical copy. Dave, you are spot on with the top two picks though. I would slightly side with Harnoncourt but by a whisker. His accounts have slightly more colour and eeriness to them.
So glad you discussed these wonderful works-some my favorite Dvorak! Mackerras, no surprise!, is my man! Also love Harnoncourt’s Water Goblin that comes with his fabulous New World Symphony. Many thanks for doing these!
About Dvorak - Mahler similarity, I think the beginning horn theme of The Golden Spinning Wheel is a bit like the beginning horn theme of the 5th movement of Mahler’s 7th symphony. Yes, at least to me. I have learned many interesting things from your channel, and Czech element of Mahler’s music is one of them. Thanks.
At last the great Chalabala!!! You were magnificent as usual Dave...your eyes sparkle whenever Mackerras takes the podium...love your recommendations but Chalabala it is not least because I had to spend a ton too money to acquire it...
Was just about to write about the comment of SS being a failure as an opera composer due to only one success (Samson). By that definition, Dvorak is also a failure (Rusalka - what else is there?). Bru Zane’s recent release of Le timbre d’argent is PHENOMENAL. A true find!
I'm somewhat embarrassed - I was not aware that Dvorak composed symphonic poems (and I thought my library of his works was relatively-extensive); thank you for enlightening me with this video; will definitely listen to these pieces.
My problem is that I do not have a favourite performance of any of the late tone poems - and I have nearly all of them. Do not knock the Košler performances too much because they have an earthy, real central European accent to them and especially because the performance of the Hero's Song is perhaps the best that there is - it is a wonderfully atmospheric work that deserves to be heard far more. Many thanks for all of your comments and for your deep love and understanding of Dvořák.
Thank you as usual for your thoughts on these works and performances. People might like recent translations of the poems into English. Don't know why sometimes you hear the name 'Wild Dove' - it is actually s small white domestic dove.
Thanks for this informative list! Although not in this video, I’ve always held a particular fondness for A Hero’s Song. It’s basically Ein Heldenleben but better, and unlike Strauss, it ends triumphantly (yay!)
David, would you recommend the Talich set of 4 tone poems? I’ve listened to snippets on RUclips, sound appears ok for the time, as it didn’t appear in this video I couldn’t hazard a guess to your possible rating. 🍻 cheers!!
@@DavesClassicalGuide cheers David, I have all the versions in your video as I love these works, almost all as the MacKerras is on order, so is the Talich now, thank you.
Re Harnoncourt: One of my weirdest concert experiences ever occurred in Berlin, 2002, when Harnoncourt led the VPO in a Dvořák/Smetana program that included one of these late tone poems (I forget which) but seemed to be rather short in terms of musical time. The explanation? Harnoncourt did not just play the music, but offered beforehand a lengthy descriptive synopsis of the piece in German including musical examples, which must have lasted easily a half hour. The point still escapes me, as the essence of the story was reproduced in the program as well. But the performance was really good. PS: Behind your left ear, do I see the orange Philips boxes of the Haydn operas as conducted by Dorati?
I was also there and it was a great performance. As a matter of fact, the young Harnoncourt was unable to speak in front of the public. However, he knew Kurt Pahlen (*1907 - +2003). Pahlen used to explain the pieces to the public before perfoming them. He did it for the first time in 1939 in Buenos Aires, short after arriving from Europe and before the outbreak of WWII. Standing in front of the orchestra, he was just about to start conducting Smetana's Moldau, his both arms were already in the air, when he suddendly thought: "These people have a total different background. What do they know about the Czech country, landscape and culture? Shouldn't I explain a little bit the background of this music, so that they can better appreciate it"? So - big surprise for everybody - he dropped his arms, turned around, and gave his intoduction of the work to big delight and joy of the public. From then on, Pahlen always addressed a few words before perfoming. After his return to Europe - his home was near Zürich - during one conversation with Harnoncourt, Pahlen gave him the suggestion to give a short introduction of the work to be perfomed. Harnoncourt's first reaction was to reject the idea, because he tought to be unable to speak in public. So, Pahlen helped him very much to develop that skill. Dr. Pahlen personally told me this story in 1998.
I always thought that the symphonic poems were fantastic, particularly the Water Goblin and the Wild Dove.. Speaking of the Dove, I often wondered if the violins "crying" motif might have been the widow, secretly laughing at what she had done? Just a thought.
I think we should try to understand these stories in terms of everyday life because that way they are cautionary tales about what can happen if people don't try hard enough to stay on track. In the Water Goblin she was too anxious to get married (wanting the domestic life doing laundry) and "fell in" with a husband who was emotionally controlling and possessive. She should have got back in time prayerfully because the church vespers bells were ringing. Her mother was just against everything without providing any real guidance, etc. And this stuff certainly goes on in the world. Speaking of Kertesz, his life was tragically cut short in a swimming accident just as he was starting to "come into his own".
The Harnoncourt performances you referenced are absolutely beautiful, and he, like Dvorak, did not get the credit he deserved. By the way, I am curious what you think of Harnoncourt’s Zurich performance of Schumann’s Genoveva. It’s not popular to like Schumann’s opera, but I think Schumann missed his calling as an opera composer. The singing as well as the playing by the Zurich Opera House Orchestra is outstanding, despite the weird staging (dead fishes!) and Martin Gantner profusely sweating onto Juliane Banse, yikes!
Karel Jaromir Erben and his collection of poems called "Kytice" (Bunch of flowers) is well known to all Czech students of certain age; the only poem in which no one directly dies or is murdered starts with words: "The mother died and laid in the grave, orphaned children stayed behind,... " Those are real folklore horrors!
These are definitely under rated (and under represented recording wise. I had the Gregor for years but although performed well I agree they lack some measure of excitement and the sound though ok seems to me rather close and stifled. The Kuchar is very good and I love Kubelik's version although he omits the (for me) slightly less interesting Hero's Song. Another piece that has been neglected is the ten legends,less profound and more akin to the slavonic dances but charming in their own way
Rusalka seems like an extended-length tone poem a la Erben with words set to the music, which is ravishing and incomparable. If there's a Carmen Suite for orchestra, why why WHY isn't there a Rusalka suite for orchestra as well? Throw in ones for Dimitrij, The Devil and Kate, the Jacobin, and Armida too - their music is sumptuous and wonderous.
@@DavesClassicalGuide If it's anything like a 5th Dvorak tone poem from the Erben folk tale genre, I'll take it! Thank you so much for your kind response. Since I had to wait years and years to get a recording of Dvorak's A Hero's Song, and finally got a used copy of an Alois Klima radio recording issued in a box set on the British Legend label in the early 1980s, I guess I can wait longer for the three-hour version.
Dave this is off topic but I just had the opportunity to hear Teodor Currentzis Allegetto from his new release of Beethoven #7. This should really get you going. Starts off inaudible, and mannered to say the least in a dreary way.
The more I listen to Dvorak the more I'm convinced we're before one of the greatest composers in History.
Seriously. And it is especially obvious when the music is played by great players, because Dvorak requires a surprising amount of virtuosity and red-blooded passion and a knack for his characteristic rusticisms. Some of the recent revelations for me have been in his chamber music, including the Piano Quartet No. 2 and Terzetto.
@ His gift for melody and harmony combined with a particular cosmopolitan folkiness set him as a truly distinctive voice, in my book.
I just want to say a big thank for your dedication. Because, while you could simply go straight for the recordings and tell us "listen to this, listen to that", you always take the time to introduce us to the works you're going to talk about. It's very helpful for people like me who aren't familiar with this music (even people who are might learn new things). And you always do it with this lovely touch of humor, it really makes me want to learn more about these Tone Poems!
Just something I wanted to spit out.
Thank you!
I love the way you tell us switftly and with so much humour the story of these tone poems, as by the way you do with operas. It reminds me of how George Bernard Shaw reported in a hilarious way some of the operas he was attending at the end of the 19th century (when the soprano is married with the baryton but is in love with the tenor, and of course dies at the end).
I recall saying awhile back on another thread Dvorak is incredibly underrated as a tone poet. I went through a, shall we say, interesting phase in my life where I listened to The Water Goblin almost every day. The only disc I actually own is Neumann and it is absolutely thrilling. I’d love to get my hands on the Koslar too. I’ve streamed the Jarvi and it is very good, but can’t quite measure up to Neumann. I’ll give the Kubelic a listen too. Many thanks from a commenty person who eagerly awaited this talk.
The Dvorak symphonic poems -- not just these Erban ones but all of the others including the "nature, life and love" trilogy and "My Homeland" -- are fantastic. I wish they appeared on concert programs more often than they do.
Me too.
Particularly the wonderful "Othello" overture. (Love)
Thank you!!! Have been waiting for months for this video - and here it comes. 😌😁🤗 These tone poems show two facts: 1. Dvořák was a good tone architect, but, first of all, he was a tone magician. 2. Music, i.e. sounds without words, is so suitable for expressing so wide scale of feelings of humans, feelings almost inexpressible by what is visual: words or paintings. THANK YOU!!!😊😊
Don't forget the 3 overtures, on the same level as the tone poems, I think.
I am so grateful for your advocacy of Dvorak in these episodes. I have always loved the cello concerto and symphony #4, but after your episode on his piano concerto I have fallen in love with that piece! I have been waiting for a Dvorak talk to convey my thanks to you. Thanks! And thanks for this episode as well , even if, admittedly, the subject matter of these tone poems might not be my cup of tea :)
You're very welcome!
I have Harnencourt's interpretation of this music, I also have CDs of most of Dvorak's works. He really is a great composer, my very first introduction to classical music was in the 1960 when I was an exchange pupil in France, and the two boys in the family had a record player in the loft of the barn in Lyons-la-Foret, Normandy, which was their den, and they played Dvorak's New World Symphony. My ears were truly opened to a New World of music that never left me and has enriched my life ever since. I will always associate the New World Symphony with cider, because they had a cider orchard there and produced the best cider I've ever had the privilege to taste.
Thank you Mr. Hurwitz for another excellent video about this giant creative genius among the 19th century composers. About your Harnoncourt recommendation, I wish Warner would release someday a big (it would be huge indeed) Harnoncourt complete box.
Another excellent video David. Thank you. I recently got the Kuchar box after you recommended it in another talk and I’m looking forward to listening to these pieces.
For me, one of your most ear-opening talks. A collector of the backbone of Dvorak's orchestral works - symphonies and concerti - ends up with much of the rest as fillers and I thought I had just about all of his best stuff, but I'd completely missed the tone poems and was intrigued by your overview. The Harnoncourt hasn't been too difficult to chase down. Thanks.
Your snaredrum wedding comment cracked me up. Another classic review 😂👍
I love the tone poems. But I can not listen to the "Noonday Witch." One night in 1996 I was waiting to pick up a friend in his driveway. The local classical station was playing it. Suddenly my car window was smashed and saw a masked man and gun on my head. The work still gives me the willies. "The Golden Spinning Wheel" is a masterpiece. Do the Symphonic Variations sometime!
I sympathize. My taste for Shostakovich No. 10 got messed up in a similar way (and for Shostakovich in general, to be honest).
Kalibala's Water Goblin and Wild Dove are so atmospheric, authentically Czech and dramatic. I urge anyone to investigate them, maybe on a streaming service if you cannot get a physical copy. Dave, you are spot on with the top two picks though. I would slightly side with Harnoncourt but by a whisker. His accounts have slightly more colour and eeriness to them.
So glad you discussed these wonderful works-some my favorite Dvorak! Mackerras, no surprise!, is my man! Also love Harnoncourt’s Water Goblin that comes with his fabulous New World Symphony. Many thanks for doing these!
This was just terrific. Please, please, do a talk on Dvorak's eerily beautiful Stabat Mater.
Some of my FAVORITE orchestral music...FANTASTIC!!!!👍
Thank you! I never heard these before and am loving the Concertgebouw recording. The Chalabala streams on Amazon Unlimited too, listening to that now.
The Kubelik also contains the version of In Nature’s Realm I keep on my phone, it’s on heavy rotation right now. What a piece!
About Dvorak - Mahler similarity, I think the beginning horn theme of The Golden Spinning Wheel is a bit like the beginning horn theme of the 5th movement of Mahler’s 7th symphony. Yes, at least to me. I have learned many interesting things from your channel, and Czech element of Mahler’s music is one of them. Thanks.
Just when I was wondering if I should have another set... Thank you for this, Mr H.
At last the great Chalabala!!! You were magnificent as usual Dave...your eyes sparkle whenever Mackerras takes the podium...love your recommendations but Chalabala it is not least because I had to spend a ton too money to acquire it...
Saint-Saëns' Prosperine is a gem! Hint: a video about some of Palazetto Bru Zane's more delectable issues?
Was just about to write about the comment of SS being a failure as an opera composer due to only one success (Samson). By that definition, Dvorak is also a failure (Rusalka - what else is there?). Bru Zane’s recent release of Le timbre d’argent is PHENOMENAL. A true find!
I'm somewhat embarrassed - I was not aware that Dvorak composed symphonic poems (and I thought my library of his works was relatively-extensive); thank you for enlightening me with this video; will definitely listen to these pieces.
You are in for a real treat!
My problem is that I do not have a favourite performance of any of the late tone poems - and I have nearly all of them. Do not knock the Košler performances too much because they have an earthy, real central European accent to them and especially because the performance of the Hero's Song is perhaps the best that there is - it is a wonderfully atmospheric work that deserves to be heard far more. Many thanks for all of your comments and for your deep love and understanding of Dvořák.
Thank you! Great vedeo, I really needed this!
Glad it was helpful!
Other underrated, underappreciated, underperformed, and underrecorded Dvorak works are the
three Slavonic Rhapsodies and the ten Legends.
Thank you as usual for your thoughts on these works and performances. People might like recent translations of the poems into English. Don't know why sometimes you hear the name 'Wild Dove' - it is actually s small white domestic dove.
I think we need a video on your music rooms! Teasing references thus far...
Thanks for this informative list! Although not in this video, I’ve always held a particular fondness for A Hero’s Song. It’s basically Ein Heldenleben but better, and unlike Strauss, it ends triumphantly (yay!)
The Harnoncourt is my favorite!
David, would you recommend the Talich set of 4 tone poems? I’ve listened to snippets on RUclips, sound appears ok for the time, as it didn’t appear in this video I couldn’t hazard a guess to your possible rating. 🍻 cheers!!
www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12531/?search=1
@@DavesClassicalGuide cheers David, I have all the versions in your video as I love these works, almost all as the MacKerras is on order, so is the Talich now, thank you.
Re Harnoncourt: One of my weirdest concert experiences ever occurred in Berlin, 2002, when Harnoncourt led the VPO in a Dvořák/Smetana program that included one of these late tone poems (I forget which) but seemed to be rather short in terms of musical time. The explanation? Harnoncourt did not just play the music, but offered beforehand a lengthy descriptive synopsis of the piece in German including musical examples, which must have lasted easily a half hour. The point still escapes me, as the essence of the story was reproduced in the program as well. But the performance was really good. PS: Behind your left ear, do I see the orange Philips boxes of the Haydn operas as conducted by Dorati?
Yes, you do.
I was also there and it was a great performance. As a matter of fact, the young Harnoncourt was unable to speak in front of the public. However, he knew Kurt Pahlen (*1907 - +2003). Pahlen used to explain the pieces to the public before perfoming them. He did it for the first time in 1939 in Buenos Aires, short after arriving from Europe and before the outbreak of WWII. Standing in front of the orchestra, he was just about to start conducting Smetana's Moldau, his both arms were already in the air, when he suddendly thought: "These people have a total different background. What do they know about the Czech country, landscape and culture? Shouldn't I explain a little bit the background of this music, so that they can better appreciate it"? So - big surprise for everybody - he dropped his arms, turned around, and gave his intoduction of the work to big delight and joy of the public. From then on, Pahlen always addressed a few words before perfoming. After his return to Europe - his home was near Zürich - during one conversation with Harnoncourt, Pahlen gave him the suggestion to give a short introduction of the work to be perfomed. Harnoncourt's first reaction was to reject the idea, because he tought to be unable to speak in public. So, Pahlen helped him very much to develop that skill. Dr. Pahlen personally told me this story in 1998.
Maybe Dvorak is the most underrated composer ever. At least in Germany.
I always thought that the symphonic poems were fantastic, particularly the Water Goblin and the Wild Dove.. Speaking of the Dove, I often wondered if the violins "crying" motif might have been the widow, secretly laughing at what she had done? Just a thought.
I've said so for years: weeping crocodile tears.
I think we should try to understand these stories in terms of everyday life because that way they are cautionary tales about what can happen if people don't try hard enough to stay on track. In the Water Goblin she was too anxious to get married (wanting the domestic life doing laundry) and "fell in" with a husband who was emotionally controlling and possessive. She should have got back in time prayerfully because the church vespers bells were ringing. Her mother was just against everything without providing any real guidance, etc. And this stuff certainly goes on in the world. Speaking of Kertesz, his life was tragically cut short in a swimming accident just as he was starting to "come into his own".
The Harnoncourt performances you referenced are absolutely beautiful, and he, like Dvorak, did not get the credit he deserved. By the way, I am curious what you think of Harnoncourt’s Zurich performance of Schumann’s Genoveva. It’s not popular to like Schumann’s opera, but I think Schumann missed his calling as an opera composer. The singing as well as the playing by the Zurich Opera House Orchestra is outstanding, despite the weird staging (dead fishes!) and Martin Gantner profusely sweating onto Juliane Banse, yikes!
Completely irrelevant question. What are the orange box sets to the right (to us) of your glasses?
Haydn operas.
Thank you.
Karel Jaromir Erben and his collection of poems called "Kytice" (Bunch of flowers) is well known to all Czech students of certain age; the only poem in which no one directly dies or is murdered starts with words: "The mother died and laid in the grave, orphaned children stayed behind,... " Those are real folklore horrors!
These are definitely under rated (and under represented recording wise. I had the Gregor for years but although performed well I agree they lack some measure of excitement and the sound though ok seems to me rather close and stifled. The Kuchar is very good and I love Kubelik's version although he omits the (for me) slightly less interesting Hero's Song. Another piece that has been neglected is the ten legends,less profound and more akin to the slavonic dances but charming in their own way
Rusalka seems like an extended-length tone poem a la Erben with words set to the music, which is ravishing and incomparable. If there's a Carmen Suite for orchestra, why why WHY isn't there a Rusalka suite for orchestra as well? Throw in ones for Dimitrij, The Devil and Kate, the Jacobin, and Armida too - their music is sumptuous and wonderous.
Manfred Honeck put together and recorded a Rusalka Suite. It's on Reference Recordings coupled to a very fine Tchaikovsky 6th Symphony.
@@DavesClassicalGuide If it's anything like a 5th Dvorak tone poem from the Erben folk tale genre, I'll take it! Thank you so much for your kind response. Since I had to wait years and years to get a recording of Dvorak's A Hero's Song, and finally got a used copy of an Alois Klima radio recording issued in a box set on the British Legend label in the early 1980s, I guess I can wait longer for the three-hour version.
Dave this is off topic but I just had the opportunity to hear Teodor Currentzis Allegetto from his new release of Beethoven #7. This should really get you going. Starts off inaudible, and mannered to say the least in a dreary way.
Oh dear. Well, I have the disc, so I suppose I'll have to listen to it eventually.