I don't know what went wrong with mine. Maybe not deep enough. The soil was wet one fall and frost grabbed ahold of my corrugations and pulled the metal up, rippling it. Of course it didn't go back down in spring.
When I built on post and beams I used helictical screw piles and the four corner piles had additional piles attached to them and screwed into the ground at an angle for bracing. On top of the piles are beams and then I used a 12 1/4" SIP panel for the floor and then built a second raised floor inside the exterior walls for a warm space to run the plumbing pipes. Finally, I built a utility shed on a concrete pad on the ground against the side of the raised cabin so that all the plumbing pipes from the cabin went through the two adjacent exterior walls (the cabin's and the sheds) so the pipes are never exposed to outdoor temperatures. The well pipe and the septic pipe also come up through the shed's concrete floor pad so they are never exposed as well.
4x4's are too flimsy for a permanent structure and even on the super light side for just a deck. Growing up in the fifties in my locality no one could afford concrete full perimeters and footers and most sites were not accessible for the limited equipment in our village. The most popular ways were to dig a good drainage around the perimeter and then dig down to hardpan, preferably to bedrock where a foot square by six inch pad was poured over gravel (some used an even larger pad). Then the most preferred posts were pressure treated real creosote pilings twelve inches or more inches diameter, some used pressure treated creosote 12 x 12 timbers. Once these were in they were capped with eight by eights or larger for some uses. These were securely fastened by lag bolting or drift pinning all the way through where possible. Only then were the floor framing members assembled atop those timbers. The advantage of such large stock was stability and a lower center of gravity. A skirting was constructed around to keep any weather off the foundation and enable the house to be insulated effectively as well as reducing critters. This skirt was painted with full creosote every three or four years to protect it in ground contact. In the bush many were built with equivalent trees which were either treated or replaced as time went along. Fully protected with good drainage ditches around they would last quite some time especially if cedar was used as was often the case. Houses were also constructed over the water above tidal range which meant piling of twenty feet at the deep end again creosote which last for a couple of hundred years and more. These were closely on center and well braced but once again of substantial size. In all the houses and buildings so constructed I do not ever remember any instability whatsoever. Our area gets winds in excess of a hundred miles per hour two or three times a year and a lot of lesser storms as well. Heavy snow loads can also occur. No one would ever have considered such a light structure as 4x4's for good reason. In your case I would remove the 4x4's and replace with concrete pillars of ten inches minimum. You could also form up around the 4x4 with plywood (it is not at all comparable to OSB in strength or water resistance but in this case could be used for forming). Make sure your stand off is uniform and pour a good pier in place. Best to just remove the 4x4 a few at a time or crib up the house and replace them all at once. Cross brace with good beams to hold the joists and voila you have a good foundation. Be sure to pour a good footing for each post. Precast is a poor substitute. Be generous with the size as it is called a footing for a reason. Use plenty of rebar.
I have a "post and beam" foundation under a 20x32' cabin and have none of these issues. I poured 12in sono tubes upto the bottom of a tripple 2x12 girder. This foundation is 15 12in sono tubes 40" underground and generaly 3' above ground. Me and my 67yr old father dug this foundation in clay, had it inspected and poured the tubes in 4 days. Cost about $1000 and took about 120 80lbs bags. I figured that in the end useing a vertical post and the brackets needed was going to cost more than just doing more concrete.
I build a remote off-road cabin on 6” well casing and welded steel angle for cross bracing. It is real solid. It’s been there 24 years and the floor is still level even after some 7+ earthquakes. This cabin is a six miles of ATV trail from the road.
@@Chris_at_Home Daughter wants to build a water tower about twenty feet up. I've been suggesting she get the well drillers to give her four tall posts (casings) and she can build the platform on top for he 1,000-gallon tank. Did the driller do it for you or did you dig and place them yourself?
@@TheOldJarhead = Generally , The posts for post and beam, are supposed to go into the ground about as deep as it is above ground, for that lateral support. I saw the potential problem at the 0:40 second mark as soon as I started watching the video. But I wanted to see what you did about it, so I watched more of it. You probably did not want the rotting problem of the post in the ground, which is why they often use sono tubes and cement. My recommendation for most builds is to pour a floating cement pad on a bed of gravel, which can be insulated on top if needed. Many garages use that method, and it avoids a sub-ground concrete frost wall which is expensive.
The taller your posts, the more movement you will get. Use the shortest posts possible to get your floor right down close to those piers. Also, the flex in those bolts is never going away...I would do wood directly on the concrete(with a piece of shingle for a vapor barrier)
If I'm building in an area with a decent depth I have to dig to get below the freeze line, I'm going basement style. But another way with these post areas is to get a tool from Jess Tools that utilizes a post hole but augers out a bell in the bottom to help prevent heave
Hey Jarhead, my name is Darren, and watching your program inpired me to build my grandchildren a tree house, i just want to say thank you, and i can wait to see what you do next ❤
Grade-beam on pilings. Use the styrofoam insulation strips designed for below the grade beam that get buried when you take the forms off and push a little dirt up to the sides. That’ll be the foundation as well as the skirting. You can also do pilings and then use PWF for the grade beam and just build and sheath it as a wall. Same with that though, use some of the styrofoam strips with the little “legs” on the bottom side to take up any ground movement. Otherwise you just have to dig down and put a proper footing below the frost line and a wall on top of that for the cabin to sit on. And if anyone spills concrete at the top of a piling so it’s no longer the same diameter as the below-ground section it needs to be cleaned up. Frost causes the ground to jack the pilings up using that mushroom section for even more efficient frost-jacking. I’ve seen pilings broken off and lifted off the rest as well as pilings that weren’t deep enough pulled up, never to go back down because dirt falls in under them. Frost causes all kinds of issues.
Fortunately I've not had an issue with frost heave even with temps dropping to 30 below but I'm working on the new foundation in stages and will complete it before starting the addition.
I’m just sinking 6x6 posts about 3 ft in the ground. Will have about 12x12 pored concrete pad for them to sit on. So I will have 3 ft of dirt keeping them stiff and movement free. I did a storage building the same way 20 plus years ago with 4x4 posts. This cabin will be 12x24.
Thank you for your service -- to this country, and to those of us who learn from the mistakes / regrets of others. We are around the same age. There are few things I've done in the past 45 yrs that I don't find fault with / haven't learned from. Yes, thank you for your humanity and for discussing your regrets. Yes, a concrete foundation is best. Yes, you could have fixed the road a bit more so a concrete truck could drive in. No, 4x4s are not enough. Yes, 6x6s and sonotubes is the way to go. Few of us ever truly finish what we start. We all have our go-back To Do tasks lists. My 2 cents -- this foundation obviously bugs you. Suggest you make a bold decision and re-do it the way you think in hindsight you wish you had done years ago. Never mind the cost now. You will feel much better once you re-do. Peace of mind and closure is golden. Priceless.
I used solid insulation with a reflective surface facing the bottom(with an air gap) ...Above that I then placed a 6mil vapor barrier then came the 3/4" sub-floor... then below that i covered the bottom with 1/2" pressure treated plywood..All gaps had spray foam sprayed in to them..(from the top and bottom as needed) I used sono-tubes for the foundation.. For your cabin you can use your piers as the anchoring points(like you have now) and then jack up a small amount(in the center line) and put blocking at midpoints in your structure.. Those would be cinders/concrete blocks with shims to height after removing the jacking devices.. I also used blocking between my 2x 10's so that the floor joists would not flex..(that makes it extremely rigid) You may need to place 4x6 or 4x4 runners on the blocking to give more strength but that's your choice.. I was told to never use soft insulation under a cabin as its perfect for nesting.. The combination of hard insulation and reflective surface with an air gap and the 1/2 pressure treating panels screwed in underneath helped a lot..(wire mesh or plastic on the bottom does not deter pests) Also if I need access I can undo the screws and remove a bottom panel underneath the cabin if needed....
My issue with the ply underneath is that it can't breath but your installation sounds like a a well insulated on and those generally don't need to breath. I've often pondered just removing the bats and putting in R10 foam board instead.
For all the reasons you listed plus the lifting power the wind has, my cabin has solid foundation. It lays by the coast of Norway and the wind there is hefty in the autumn and winter season
Fortunately I don't have much wind at all by our cabin (just breezes as we're well sheltered though I do sometimes get wind) so it hasn't been an issue but very good point!
This is a good discussion. Now, retrofitting is made easier by using bond beam blocks, dry stacked where necessary. Lay in the re-bar and pour the core with pre-mix. Where necessary, do a cold joint. With re-bar an a lap, it will be solid.
Good video explain the post and pier foundation. There is a lot of inns and outs on that setup. A footer and concrete wall foundation in my opinion is the best way. I think sometimes a lot of the decision is cost . And I’ve seen where it’s all boxed in and critters get under the sides and you don’t know it until it’s too late and they have done a lot of damage.
I've had houses with basements, crawl spaces, and my most recent, which is a full foundation and footing with a slab. By far, the best, most comfortable and worry free house is my current one.
= Generally , The posts for post and beam, are supposed to go into the ground about as deep as it is above ground, for that lateral support. I saw the potential problem at the 0:40 second mark as soon as I started watching the video. But I wanted to see what you did about it, so I watched more of it. You probably did not want the rotting problem of the post in the ground, which is why they often use sono tubes and cement. My recommendation for most builds is to pour a floating cement pad on a bed of gravel, which can be insulated on top if needed. Many garages use that method, and it avoids a sub-ground concrete frost wall which is expensive.
Funny thing, it isn't as bad as I might have made it sound (unintentionally) but I'm happy I put in a couple stem walls and will be completing the foundation in the near future.
It took me a year to do our foundation. The building department kept red lining everything I tried. Finally said OK How about 28 yards in a 20ftx20ft. slab with 16" piers under every post and #5 rebar? Got the OK finally. The concrete guy who did the pour said "I can't believe they made you put this much concrete in this slab! You could build a 10 story building on this thing!" It's so thick it generates it's own heat! Haha. The Timber Frame was the problem with the building department. They didn't like it and they were trying to dissuade me from building! BIG mistake. “If you have built castles in the air, your work need not to be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them.” ― Henry David Thoreau
A man builds a fine house; and now he has a mastery, and a task for life: he is to furnish, watch, show it, and keep it in repair, the rest of his days. Ralph Waldo Emerson
“Therefore, when we build, let us think that we build for ever. Let it not be for present delight, nor for present use alone; let it be such work as our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone on stone, that a time is to come when those stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! this our father did for us." John Ruskin
I own a house built in 1920 on post and pier. (CA) Redwood piers a top 1x6's along the perimeter and 2X down center. Was told by an old timer they survive earthquakes better compared to bolted concrete because they give, sway and settle. So far so good 104 years later. Redwood piers still good as new. My piers (4x4) are nailed; floor about 3ft above ground. 1 pier every 2 feet around perimeter and 2 pier runs down centre. (Braced top to bottom with 2x4x8's) atop 1x6's as footers on dirt. No sway at all. House has settled here and there, but for what it is, it's good. Plenty black widows.
I had the same dilemma in my mind when I built my cabin in the woods. I finally settled on a monolithic slab with three rounds of cement blocks that the cabin sets on. Major reason was not wanting to crawl around in dirt under the building after everything was built, and no mice or other critters can get in.
At this point you have to put a bottom plate and top plate between all posts get 3/4 ply not OSB use PL constuction adhesive and engined screws on all edges
It does not matter how much insulation is in an unheated basement or crawlspace ceiling. 30% of the heat is lost downward from the room/house above, because the ground is always cooler. The slab must be insulated to create a thermal barrier. With pier foundations it is impossible. That's a big reason to enclose them. It keeps the losses to at least 30%.
Not sure I have this straight: the posts should be transferring the load directly into the piers ? The bolt is a fastener that keeps the post from moving off of the pier, but it should not be load bearing.
The bolt is part of a 4x4 Simpson bracket and indeed supports the load. When I decided to use them, I hadn't considered that thoroughly, and none of the people I consulted who had experience saw an issue (which I suppose is why it's still standing). However, once I finish the new foundation, it won't be an issue.
I just bought my parents home from the estate. Post and pier. In great shape, easy to inspect and repair. All redwood. Like anything it can be done wrong. 6x8 posts, tall enough to work under. If tied in it is rigid. Simpson is not the way to go.
Honestly if your post & pier foundation isn't stable, it's because you didn't design & build it properly. And the building in the photos you show is not designed properly. You shouldn't need bracing at all if the posts are in the proper location, notched for the board, and anchored with more than just a singular bolt per post. And of course 6x6s are a LOT more sturdy. 4x4s can work for some stuff but it takes a few more of them and you don't have as much meat to work with when notching posts. To fix that cheaply & quickly I'd say you need some treated 2x4s for underpinning around the edges, basically framing up a tiny wall right on the ground around the edges of your building and then put up sheetmetal roofing for skirting. That'll last decades. Especially if you put a bag of concrete (or just portland cemend mixed with the soil) under your underpinning every once in a while. The upright boards need to fit tight. And you can help anchor them with rebar stakes or/and concrete. That will repair your foundation and enclose it all at once. Without any need for the more expensive and laborious masonry work.
You make some excellent points about foundation stability! Proper design and materials are crucial for a solid build. Your suggestions for underpinning and skirting will definitely help those looking to improve their structures. Thanks for sharing your expertise!
Be careful with stem walls, make sure you provide plenty of ventilation and put down a vapor barrier. I built a cabin with 100% stem walls and I was shocked at the amount of moisture coming out of the ground. I went back and drilled many 2" dia vent holes. Without vent holes and vapor barrier, it could rot out your floor. Best foundation is a concrete slab. Screw the post-n-pier and stem wall..
I lived for 8 years in a 2-story cabin built somewhat similar, except it was on a hillside. This result in the downhill posts being almost 6' tall. I ultimately added plywood box beams between all of the posts. The box beams consisted of a 2x4 (flatwise) top & bottom, with a 2x4 nailer bolted to the posts, and faced these 2x4s with a full sheet of 3/4" plywood both sides. I used steel doors throughout and every time a door was slammed you could feel the entire cabin move. But I was living there alone (no electricity or running water) so I wasn't too concerned as this was intended to be temporary quarters while our home was to be constructed. Life events changed my plan and the home was never built and then some local juveniles decided it would be fun to torch my cabin. There it now sits as a half burned-out shell. In hindsight, the posts should have had a full-moment connection to the concrete piers (that only came up to ground level) and not just a single bolt into the concrete. Further, all 6 posts should have been tied to each other with the plywood box beams I described above. The only advantage to what I had constructed was that everything other than the doors, windows, skylights & roofing were scrounged materials.
That boxing in those posts would definitely have made a difference! I did something similar but just OSB face nailed to the posts and it made a big difference.
You could pack some hydraulic cement in and around the bolt you speak of so that the hydraulic cement is fully between the concrete pier block and the bottom of your galvanized 4x4 post bracket.
@TheOldJarhead Hydraulic cement or non-shrink grout. When I posted about Hydraulic cement I couldn't remember the name of the product I was thinking about. What I should have said using is non-shrink grout. Basically, if you don't know, non-shrink grout will not reduce in size after it hardens. So, if you were to provide form work from the top of your concrete pier block up to and around the saddle it should provide some extra stability. I would even go so far as to make a wider formwork around the pier block beginning at the base of the pier block, say an extra 3 to 4 inches wider on all sides of the pier block and bring this formwork up to and including the saddle and fill it with non-shrink grout. In addition, I would even dig down around all 4 sides of the saddle a few inches (doing this one at a time of course) and fill this trench up with packed sand and or cementitious gravel. This would provide a wider and more solid base for your non-shrink grout. If you do bring the non-shrink grout up around the saddle I would suggest coating your wood posts with some tar or other such waterproofing prior to finishing with the non-shrink grout near and around the saddle.Also after packing the sand/ gravel base then wet it down just prior to adding the non-shrink grout. It may even be advisable to do one pier at a time while supporting with temporary shoring any nearby structure, then remove the post and saddle, the pier block and then dig down to just below frost for a proper base and support for your re-installed pier block, saddle and post and the non-shrink grout technique described earlier.
Thank you for sharing such detailed insights! Your suggestions on using non-shrink grout and creating a solid base are super helpful for anyone looking to ensure stability in their projects.
We built our story and a half, 25 by 31 foot, recycled log house 40 plus years ago on a isolated hill site on very well drained soil without going to the 4 foot (plus) frost line. It has never "moved". We made a "grade beam" foundation - a 2 foot high, 2 foot on center, stud wall of foundation grade pressure treated southern yellow pine 2 by 4's sheathed with 1/2 inch pressure treated plywood with a treated 2 by 6 for the footer (all painted on the inside / foundation coating on the outside) set a foot or so into the ground directly on leveled, undisturbed soil.... made it into a "plem-wood" foundation with a section of wide air duct to just below the ceiling behind the centrally located wood stove ( for heat shield) open on top connected to a under floor furnace fan pulling air into the crawl space warming the floor and then back into the living area through a 3/8 inch gap between the floor and log walls. It works especially well to first heat up the house then the quiet and sound of the wood burning in the stove is far better than fan noise. Yes! much satisfaction can be had building your own house in the forest. A simple foundation on a good site helps to get the project going.
I use wood at the cabin but have a backup heater for those cold winter days I arrive and it's below freezing (well below) in the cabin and I need some help getting it warmed up before bedtime lol
Or deeply placed piers. I made a mistake but I've mostly fixed it since ;) I'm actually working on replacing it though with a footing/stem wall foundation as time and my body allows.
My cabin is 10 years old and we have zero issues. I put a big rock on the bottom of each hole and placed a 6x6 in the hole. No concrete. I have them spaced every 3 feet. You went up too high using thin 4x4s spaced too far apart. The first mistake people make is following the building inspector and county engineers... I paid only for the 6x6. You and I are at different income levels. You got lots of money!
@TheOldJarhead You have a lot of money. Some people want to live "off-grid" but have everything a normal house has. Some people live off-grid for simplicity and freedom. I have one battery from Walmart for my solar system. We can charge phones and run computers. You have an expensive solar system, so you can run microwaves and coffee pots. No crime in having money. We're just different that way, so we approach things differently. That foundation was WAY too complicated with WAY too many parts for WAY too much money. That foundation you built is something that would have never even crossed my mind. Just poor white trash here!
lol Ivguess money is subjective. To me, I don't have lots, but I sacrificed much to afford building. Then I continued to spend less and save so I could upgrade. Now, the foundation can work. It just needed more knowledge than I had 😉
@@TheOldJarhead Life is a constant learning experience! Now you know. Globally, you have more money than the vast population on the Earth. No crime in having money. I just don't have much of it!
Based off the cost of concrete, form work, dirt work, rebar/ wire mesh, etc, a stem wall foundation is about 2-3x the price. Not sure who is calculating these costs.
@TheOldJarhead the one I have setup has the solar panel and light connected by a wire, so I can install the light in the dark and the panel is exposed to the sun during the day. My other ones are all in one kinda things✌️🇨🇦
I used to guide at youth camps up in the Canadian bush and everything was post and pier built on solid rock seeing as how we were located on the Canadian Shield where there’s not much dirt. But I would be hesitant to use that method to build a personal cabin. I’d prefer to pour a concrete pad then put up a prefabricated metal building so I didn’t have the wind blowing underneath the cabin. I like Pioneer brand galvalume huts preferably the arched style but the quonset round buildings are nice as well even if they don’t have the peak gables like a Swiss chalet or what not.
@@TheOldJarhead Absolutely. Up in northern Ontario they don’t even know what dirt is. It’s like being up in the mountains so piers are the only way to build.
@@TheOldJarhead I used to refer to myself on one blog as “Bubblehead Marc” because I used to be submarine sailor. If you’re a jarhead then apparently you were in the Marines. We had marines guarding the submarine tender out in Guam where submarine squadron 15 is located.
Yes sir, 86 - 91 with 2nd Light Armored Infantry. Semper Fi!
Месяц назад
@Adam Roby I am guessing having skirting that goes down to the ground would also not help much since these critters will just dig under the skirts? I guess it would at least help somewhat with the wind. Great video as always.
You should dig a footer to sit you skirts it should keep critters out and you should also put down a thick moisture barrier down in your crawl space. Extra protection plus keeps mold down.
I think it would help but the footing and cinderblock wall would be ideal, I may skirt before the winter though just to help keep things warm until I finish the new foundation.
Any thoughts on the Japanese technique of hikari-tsuke? They mate the end of a timber post to the top of a boulder in a way that perfectly matches the rounded contour of the rock.
I built in Northwest Montana and used railroad ties studded the bottom end with 20d nails. drilled down 4' . Plumbed them and poured concrete around them. left them proud of the ground 5' and built a balloon framed 12' walled 16x24' OSB sheeted. Sheeted the posts under the cabin and used it as a basement had a second level for an upstairs bedroom area had a shed roof dormer. this was in 1989. it is still in use today and has been since it was closed in. The posts have been very stable for all these years.
If you wanted simple, why didn't you just put in a ruble trench foundation. The compacted rock will last centuries and has no place to go. It provides natural drainage, and if you install a good french drain to carry away the water. This method has been used on buildings that have lasted centuries, some of them massive. Doing something as small as a cabin wouldn't be a problem.
@TheOldJarhead we all have to learn from our mistakes. I know I certainly had to. If we are lucky, we can learn from the wisdom of others. And of course, often there are several different ways to do the job. Concrete foundation, rubble trench foundation, pier foundation. All any of us can do really is try to make the best choice for our own situation. Personally, I'm still looking for a piece of land to build a 2-story 16x24 tiny house with a basement. Lol, after 4 kids and 6 grandkids(so far), I'm looking to seriously down size and drop everything i can into trust. Out far enough in the woods, all I can hear is the birds singing and still drive to the store when I need to. We all have forgotten too much technology today. Too few people remember how to even filter water on their own or store eggs without a fridge. I've been trying to find Edison batteries for years, but it's almost impossible to find them anymore. But in the end, I'll set up a bank of them even if I have to build them myself.
I agree 100% I built a cabin on power line polls . It was solid as a rock . We insulated the floors and put plywood down underneath, the critters still got into the insulation. I had plans to add on but decided that it would need a foundation. We dugout the footings jacked the cabin up put the foam block down and pumped it full of concrete. Way more expensive and time consuming . I look back and think of how hard it was and know now that we should have done it right the first time. Now it’s not a cabin we call it the lake house it has a full basement with 3 story’s above it , 4 bedrooms a well and a septic system… with real flushing toilets, a real hose but I tell the new guys do it right the first time don’t do it the way I did. I was 25 when we started it now I’m 65 and it’s still not done .🫣 it’s been a labor of love and I wouldn’t change a thing.
If you have p-traps and plumbing, it's not a cabin, it's a house. Building in a remote area, a place hard to reach, limited resources, no plumbing, that's a cabin.
Wrap around porch is in the works ;) but I'll finish the foundation under the cabin while doing it (that's how I started, pour a footing, build a stem wall, frame up under the cabin, add porch deck and move on. Just have to do it a few more times ;) Cheers
If you want to go crazy you can glue XPS hard board insulation on the back side of the courragated metal siding Metal siding is fireproof and blocks the wind
You didnt brace correctly. You brace like and x from post to post. That eliminates flex. I just finished a buukd like this but used 6x6 and braced well. Mine is two stories and no movement. Try to make the largest triangles possible.
I am a mason if there are rocks in the area truck in sand and some cement bags and I will hand mix and build my own piers. The one problem with today is not so much the technique it is the fact life and modern technology makes us believe easier and quicker is better. Sure you got it built in a short amount of time but 20-30-years of it nagging at you no thanks. Like I said a mason the job either way is hard do it once do it right overbuild and enjoy your endeavor I never liked Harbor freight or walmart and cheap products a foundation holds all the meticulous framing and work that comes after do not neglect the foundation everything above suffers.Enjoy your work Don't allow the Rat race mentality and anxiety steal the joy you should have making a memory home
A proper pier system is superior to slab on grade. Basement would be ideal but if you want a quick, cheap foundation pier is the way to go. Im talking 10-12ft below grade and 3-4 ft diameter.
However, when one doesn't know their chosen build is considered "a half measure" by some they have to 'live and learn'. Of course, I'm sure you've never made any bad decisions :D
Yes, or even plywood, however then it would breathe and would be a mold maker. Some use peg board, which may be easier and cheaper than hardware cloth, and I've thought about trying it.
It looks like you did so many things wrong with this build I don't know where to start. You started with the wrong base in your holes, size of post, build larger than your Beams, I have a post and pier system on the Gulf Coast and been through many hurricanes no movement. Your start (foundation) is key.
It could definitely been better though it's been through heavy winds and done just fine. 15 years and still doing it's job. I regret doing it because I could have done it better ;) That's why I made the video, to warn others but I'm also fixing it and today, it's quite stable.
@ it needs at least one every 3 ft like skid plates go by any place that sells small buildings and look under them they have at least 4 skid plates down the length and then 2 x6 every 18 inches notched out 2 inches on the skid plates
@ and then when u get 2 the top of the wall put 3 2x4 s with varying seams that’s called a king plate never put ur studs more than 18 inches on center I promise there is nothing wrong with the foundation system u just didn’t build well on top of it
Well just from a common sense viewpoint you eliminated all your stability but putting your cabin on stilts. You brought the cabin up then put the entire weight on a dozen 3/4” bolts. Usually you can use those on decks but the deck is attached to a house. Post and beam perfectly acceptable but use 4x6 and metal plates that let the posts sit on the concrete cylinder. It’s all about surface area holding and displacing the weight uniformly.
A lot of talking for so little information. To be clear the post and pier foundation he shows is weak against lateral loads. The bracing shown looks good but is weak.
I think this is a good reason to not do the things that you have done, rather than an honest evaluation of the the cons of a post and pier foundation. I can not imagine installing drains hanging in free space below the insulated floor. I can't imagine installing staple up insulation without a solid barrier against rodents, let alone not getting around to installing hardware cloth. Crap, you haven't even finished the wall behind you, where you have artistically hung some ancient tools. Your bracing of your foundation looks foolishly inefficient.
In all fairness, the cabin doesn't move anymore, and after 15 years, I'd say it's doing ok. Many have built foundations like this and are happy with them. Then, of course, it had been over 15 years since I last framed, so I was learning again. Now, the wall behind me? I'm guessing you are new to my channel, so first, welcome! Second, I'm a disabled veteran who currently can't stand long enough to finish it right away, but I will! Stay tuned.
@@TheOldJarhead I'm sorry that with your disability that you can't stand long enough to get things done. But I'll stand by my assessment. Your problems were largely a result of poor decisions that you made, rather than being intrinsic to the foundation system that you chose. I guess that I can thank you in that I still expect to use Post and Pier, but given my financial situation, I'll probably be able to over-engineer it so that I won't face the issues that you have encountered.
And therin is the reason for the video. As I mentioned, I know post and piers can be done right, and I regret not doing mine better. I want people to know of my mistakes and my successes in hopes that they help others. Now, my disabilities slow me down, but I'm a marine. They won't stop me! Right now, I'm recovering from two badly slipped discs and likely a cracked vertebrae, so it's hard to finish things, but I keep atvit.
We all make choices that we later regret. Some just don't admit it :) Me? I'm ok with making poor decisions as long as I learn from them and those who say they have nothing to learn, are lying.
It's more a case of just not knowing butvits a cabin not a house 😉 but still, it's held up for 15 years as is with the extra foundation work I've already done.
Sounds like your foundation was not properly sized for the job. Consult an engineer for better results. Poor design and poor workmanship give these results.
How could you manage to do everything so wrong you should have poured a footer then form a short wall up out of the ground off the footer and put your house on top of that then bolt it down solid steel pipe piers in the middle that can jack up if needed to cheap way not always the best I beam down the middle would be best think about it Marines should know better I'm one Semper Fi
Regret isn't the same as "I did it all wrong". The cabin has held up nicely for 15 years and while I am improving it, one can argue the only thing I did wrong was no put in enough bracing. Semper Fi Marine.
![Quando Rondo - Grow Up [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8zFnCg3BO4Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Courragated metal roofing makes a good skirting
Cheap easy to install and nothing can chew through it
Get it at your big box store
That has been a thought more than once and a good idea
I don't know what went wrong with mine. Maybe not deep enough. The soil was wet one fall and frost grabbed ahold of my corrugations and pulled the metal up, rippling it. Of course it didn't go back down in spring.
Hmmm that's rough! I'm in a dry climate
Corrugated metal is pretty cold in sub freezing temperatures, unless you pile the snow up around it, which causes other issues.
Good point
When I built on post and beams I used helictical screw piles and the four corner piles had additional piles attached to them and screwed into the ground at an angle for bracing. On top of the piles are beams and then I used a 12 1/4" SIP panel for the floor and then built a second raised floor inside the exterior walls for a warm space to run the plumbing pipes. Finally, I built a utility shed on a concrete pad on the ground against the side of the raised cabin so that all the plumbing pipes from the cabin went through the two adjacent exterior walls (the cabin's and the sheds) so the pipes are never exposed to outdoor temperatures. The well pipe and the septic pipe also come up through the shed's concrete floor pad so they are never exposed as well.
Excellent build!
Huh. I've been fantasizing nearly the same thing. Sounds like the way to do it.
4x4's are too flimsy for a permanent structure and even on the super light side for just a deck. Growing up in the fifties in my locality no one could afford concrete full perimeters and footers and most sites were not accessible for the limited equipment in our village. The most popular ways were to dig a good drainage around the perimeter and then dig down to hardpan, preferably to bedrock where a foot square by six inch pad was poured over gravel (some used an even larger pad). Then the most preferred posts were pressure treated real creosote pilings twelve inches or more inches diameter, some used pressure treated creosote 12 x 12 timbers. Once these were in they were capped with eight by eights or larger for some uses. These were securely fastened by lag bolting or drift pinning all the way through where possible. Only then were the floor framing members assembled atop those timbers. The advantage of such large stock was stability and a lower center of gravity. A skirting was constructed around to keep any weather off the foundation and enable the house to be insulated effectively as well as reducing critters. This skirt was painted with full creosote every three or four years to protect it in ground contact. In the bush many were built with equivalent trees which were either treated or replaced as time went along. Fully protected with good drainage ditches around they would last quite some time especially if cedar was used as was often the case. Houses were also constructed over the water above tidal range which meant piling of twenty feet at the deep end again creosote which last for a couple of hundred years and more. These were closely on center and well braced but once again of substantial size. In all the houses and buildings so constructed I do not ever remember any instability whatsoever. Our area gets winds in excess of a hundred miles per hour two or three times a year and a lot of lesser storms as well. Heavy snow loads can also occur. No one would ever have considered such a light structure as 4x4's for good reason. In your case I would remove the 4x4's and replace with concrete pillars of ten inches minimum. You could also form up around the 4x4 with plywood (it is not at all comparable to OSB in strength or water resistance but in this case could be used for forming). Make sure your stand off is uniform and pour a good pier in place. Best to just remove the 4x4 a few at a time or crib up the house and replace them all at once. Cross brace with good beams to hold the joists and voila you have a good foundation. Be sure to pour a good footing for each post. Precast is a poor substitute. Be generous with the size as it is called a footing for a reason. Use plenty of rebar.
Ya, I wish I'd gone with at least 6x6's but now we're going to finish it with footings and stem walls
I have a "post and beam" foundation under a 20x32' cabin and have none of these issues. I poured 12in sono tubes upto the bottom of a tripple 2x12 girder. This foundation is 15 12in sono tubes 40" underground and generaly 3' above ground. Me and my 67yr old father dug this foundation in clay, had it inspected and poured the tubes in 4 days. Cost about $1000 and took about 120 80lbs bags. I figured that in the end useing a vertical post and the brackets needed was going to cost more than just doing more concrete.
Wish I had done that
I build a remote off-road cabin on 6” well casing and welded steel angle for cross bracing. It is real solid. It’s been there 24 years and the floor is still level even after some 7+ earthquakes. This cabin is a six miles of ATV trail from the road.
Wow! That's cool!
@@Chris_at_Home Daughter wants to build a water tower about twenty feet up. I've been suggesting she get the well drillers to give her four tall posts (casings) and she can build the platform on top for he 1,000-gallon tank. Did the driller do it for you or did you dig and place them yourself?
@@TheOldJarhead = Generally , The posts for post and beam, are supposed to go into the ground about as deep as it is above ground, for that lateral support. I saw the potential problem at the 0:40 second mark as soon as I started watching the video. But I wanted to see what you did about it, so I watched more of it. You probably did not want the rotting problem of the post in the ground, which is why they often use sono tubes and cement. My recommendation for most builds is to pour a floating cement pad on a bed of gravel, which can be insulated on top if needed. Many garages use that method, and it avoids a sub-ground concrete frost wall which is expensive.
The taller your posts, the more movement you will get. Use the shortest posts possible to get your floor right down close to those piers. Also, the flex in those bolts is never going away...I would do wood directly on the concrete(with a piece of shingle for a vapor barrier)
Agreed
No, make it tall enough to work under there.
That was my first thinking. Now I'm going to put in stem walls on foundations
Thank you for your humility and basically it’s about know yourself and what the pros and cons are. ❤
Thank you! I'm a firm believer of being honest and open!
If I'm building in an area with a decent depth I have to dig to get below the freeze line, I'm going basement style. But another way with these post areas is to get a tool from Jess Tools that utilizes a post hole but augers out a bell in the bottom to help prevent heave
Hey Jarhead, my name is Darren, and watching your program inpired me to build my grandchildren a tree house, i just want to say thank you, and i can wait to see what you do next ❤
That is awesome! Thank you so much!
Grade-beam on pilings. Use the styrofoam insulation strips designed for below the grade beam that get buried when you take the forms off and push a little dirt up to the sides. That’ll be the foundation as well as the skirting. You can also do pilings and then use PWF for the grade beam and just build and sheath it as a wall. Same with that though, use some of the styrofoam strips with the little “legs” on the bottom side to take up any ground movement. Otherwise you just have to dig down and put a proper footing below the frost line and a wall on top of that for the cabin to sit on. And if anyone spills concrete at the top of a piling so it’s no longer the same diameter as the below-ground section it needs to be cleaned up. Frost causes the ground to jack the pilings up using that mushroom section for even more efficient frost-jacking. I’ve seen pilings broken off and lifted off the rest as well as pilings that weren’t deep enough pulled up, never to go back down because dirt falls in under them. Frost causes all kinds of issues.
Fortunately I've not had an issue with frost heave even with temps dropping to 30 below but I'm working on the new foundation in stages and will complete it before starting the addition.
I’m just sinking 6x6 posts about 3 ft in the ground. Will have about 12x12 pored concrete pad for them to sit on. So I will have 3 ft of dirt keeping them stiff and movement free. I did a storage building the same way 20 plus years ago with 4x4 posts. This cabin will be 12x24.
That should work great 👍
Thank you for your service -- to this country, and to those of us who learn from the mistakes / regrets of others. We are around the same age. There are few things I've done in the past 45 yrs that I don't find fault with / haven't learned from. Yes, thank you for your humanity and for discussing your regrets. Yes, a concrete foundation is best. Yes, you could have fixed the road a bit more so a concrete truck could drive in. No, 4x4s are not enough. Yes, 6x6s and sonotubes is the way to go. Few of us ever truly finish what we start. We all have our go-back To Do tasks lists. My 2 cents -- this foundation obviously bugs you. Suggest you make a bold decision and re-do it the way you think in hindsight you wish you had done years ago. Never mind the cost now. You will feel much better once you re-do. Peace of mind and closure is golden. Priceless.
Thanks and yes, that's the plan ;) I started doing a new foundation a while back and intend to continue to do so! I'll get it done, in time ;)
Alright, the minute I hear OSB, it's certain: This video should be titled, "How I Built My Foundation Wrong".
lol ok
I used solid insulation with a reflective surface facing the bottom(with an air gap) ...Above that I then placed a 6mil vapor barrier then came the 3/4" sub-floor... then below that i covered the bottom with 1/2" pressure treated plywood..All gaps had spray foam sprayed in to them..(from the top and bottom as needed)
I used sono-tubes for the foundation..
For your cabin you can use your piers as the anchoring points(like you have now) and then jack up a small amount(in the center line) and put blocking at midpoints in your structure..
Those would be cinders/concrete blocks with shims to height after removing the jacking devices.. I also used blocking between my 2x 10's so that the floor joists would not flex..(that makes it extremely rigid) You may need to place 4x6 or 4x4 runners on the blocking to give more strength but that's your choice..
I was told to never use soft insulation under a cabin as its perfect for nesting..
The combination of hard insulation and reflective surface with an air gap and the 1/2 pressure treating panels screwed in underneath helped a lot..(wire mesh or plastic on the bottom does not deter pests)
Also if I need access I can undo the screws and remove a bottom panel underneath the cabin if needed....
My issue with the ply underneath is that it can't breath but your installation sounds like a a well insulated on and those generally don't need to breath. I've often pondered just removing the bats and putting in R10 foam board instead.
For all the reasons you listed plus the lifting power the wind has, my cabin has solid foundation. It lays by the coast of Norway and the wind there is hefty in the autumn and winter season
Fortunately I don't have much wind at all by our cabin (just breezes as we're well sheltered though I do sometimes get wind) so it hasn't been an issue but very good point!
This is a good discussion. Now, retrofitting is made easier by using bond beam blocks, dry stacked where necessary. Lay in the re-bar and pour the core with pre-mix. Where necessary, do a cold joint. With re-bar an a lap, it will be solid.
Good video explain the post and pier foundation.
There is a lot of inns and outs on that setup. A footer and concrete wall foundation in my opinion is the best way. I think sometimes a lot of the decision is cost . And I’ve seen where it’s all boxed in and critters get under the sides and you don’t know it until it’s too late and they have done a lot of damage.
Fought a rat this weekend -- he lost! And yes, I think the footing/stem wall foundation is the best.
When a Skunk moves in, underneath, you’ll be seriously sorry.. even a year after it leaves. !!!
🤣🤣🤣
@TheOldJarhead ha, ur laughing now , but just you wait.. 😆 🤣 😂
Fortunately, I haven't smelled any skunks anywhere near there, but you are 100% correct!
@@TheOldJarhead 👍👍good👍👍
I never built a structure W/O a full basement and I have never regretted it.
I bet it would be awesome, but I couldn't afford it 😉
I've had houses with basements, crawl spaces, and my most recent, which is a full foundation and footing with a slab. By far, the best, most comfortable and worry free house is my current one.
Makes sense
= Generally , The posts for post and beam, are supposed to go into the ground about as deep as it is above ground, for that lateral support. I saw the potential problem at the 0:40 second mark as soon as I started watching the video. But I wanted to see what you did about it, so I watched more of it. You probably did not want the rotting problem of the post in the ground, which is why they often use sono tubes and cement. My recommendation for most builds is to pour a floating cement pad on a bed of gravel, which can be insulated on top if needed. Many garages use that method, and it avoids a sub-ground concrete frost wall which is expensive.
Funny thing, it isn't as bad as I might have made it sound (unintentionally) but I'm happy I put in a couple stem walls and will be completing the foundation in the near future.
It took me a year to do our foundation. The building department kept red lining everything I tried. Finally said OK How about 28 yards in a 20ftx20ft. slab with 16" piers under every post and #5 rebar? Got the OK finally. The concrete guy who did the pour said "I can't believe they made you put this much concrete in this slab! You could build a 10 story building on this thing!" It's so thick it generates it's own heat! Haha. The Timber Frame was the problem with the building department. They didn't like it and they were trying to dissuade me from building! BIG mistake.
“If you have built castles in the air, your work need not to be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them.” ― Henry David Thoreau
A man builds a fine house; and now he has a mastery, and a task for life: he is to furnish, watch, show it, and keep it in repair, the rest of his days.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
“Therefore, when we build, let us think that we build for ever. Let it not be for present delight, nor for present use alone; let it be such work as our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone on stone, that a time is to come when those stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! this our father did for us." John Ruskin
Darn counties! But it sounds like you will never regret the overbuilt foundation!
I like it!
OOORRRAAAHHH MARINE !!! I appreciate your video. Semper fi
Semper Fi! Thanks!
I own a house built in 1920 on post and pier. (CA) Redwood piers a top 1x6's along the perimeter and 2X down center. Was told by an old timer they survive earthquakes better compared to bolted concrete because they give, sway and settle. So far so good 104 years later. Redwood piers still good as new. My piers (4x4) are nailed; floor about 3ft above ground. 1 pier every 2 feet around perimeter and 2 pier runs down centre. (Braced top to bottom with 2x4x8's) atop 1x6's as footers on dirt. No sway at all. House has settled here and there, but for what it is, it's good. Plenty black widows.
I'd go with 6"x6" 's 4 foot into the ground with concrete.
It can freeze 15 feet deep where I live. I don't even want to think about foundations.
In that case, like the artic, I'd build on piers, very well done piers with good posts and re-enforcements!
I had the same dilemma in my mind when I built my cabin in the woods. I finally settled on a monolithic slab with three rounds of cement blocks that the cabin sets on. Major reason was not wanting to crawl around in dirt under the building after everything was built, and no mice or other critters can get in.
That'll work!
My cabin is built on a concrete slab . No regrets
At this point you have to put a bottom plate and top plate between all posts get 3/4 ply not OSB use PL constuction adhesive and engined screws on all edges
Ot just pour footings and build stem walls :D
It does not matter how much insulation is in an unheated basement or crawlspace ceiling. 30% of the heat is lost downward from the room/house above, because the ground is always cooler. The slab must be insulated to create a thermal barrier. With pier foundations it is impossible. That's a big reason to enclose them. It keeps the losses to at least 30%.
Ya best to enclose for sure
Not sure I have this straight: the posts should be transferring the load directly into the piers ? The bolt is a fastener that keeps the post from moving off of the pier, but it should not be load bearing.
The bolt is part of a 4x4 Simpson bracket and indeed supports the load. When I decided to use them, I hadn't considered that thoroughly, and none of the people I consulted who had experience saw an issue (which I suppose is why it's still standing). However, once I finish the new foundation, it won't be an issue.
I just bought my parents home from the estate. Post and pier. In great shape, easy to inspect and repair. All redwood. Like anything it can be done wrong. 6x8 posts, tall enough to work under. If tied in it is rigid. Simpson is not the way to go.
Down in the Siskiyous?
Honestly if your post & pier foundation isn't stable, it's because you didn't design & build it properly. And the building in the photos you show is not designed properly. You shouldn't need bracing at all if the posts are in the proper location, notched for the board, and anchored with more than just a singular bolt per post. And of course 6x6s are a LOT more sturdy. 4x4s can work for some stuff but it takes a few more of them and you don't have as much meat to work with when notching posts.
To fix that cheaply & quickly I'd say you need some treated 2x4s for underpinning around the edges, basically framing up a tiny wall right on the ground around the edges of your building and then put up sheetmetal roofing for skirting.
That'll last decades. Especially if you put a bag of concrete (or just portland cemend mixed with the soil) under your underpinning every once in a while. The upright boards need to fit tight. And you can help anchor them with rebar stakes or/and concrete. That will repair your foundation and enclose it all at once. Without any need for the more expensive and laborious masonry work.
You make some excellent points about foundation stability! Proper design and materials are crucial for a solid build. Your suggestions for underpinning and skirting will definitely help those looking to improve their structures. Thanks for sharing your expertise!
Be careful with stem walls, make sure you provide plenty of ventilation and put down a vapor barrier. I built a cabin with 100% stem walls and I was shocked at the amount of moisture coming out of the ground. I went back and drilled many 2" dia vent holes. Without vent holes and vapor barrier, it could rot out your floor. Best foundation is a concrete slab. Screw the post-n-pier and stem wall..
Thanks for the tips! Ventilation is key for sure.
In Hawaii most homes are on post and peri and they make you put in a concrete Fondation on all the corners
Good idea on the corners. Would stabilize things fast I'm sure.
I think code is 6' on each corner
That would do it -- and could be an option for me up front where I want a crawl space entrance anyway!
I lived for 8 years in a 2-story cabin built somewhat similar, except it was on a hillside. This result in the downhill posts being almost 6' tall. I ultimately added plywood box beams between all of the posts. The box beams consisted of a 2x4 (flatwise) top & bottom, with a 2x4 nailer bolted to the posts, and faced these 2x4s with a full sheet of 3/4" plywood both sides. I used steel doors throughout and every time a door was slammed you could feel the entire cabin move. But I was living there alone (no electricity or running water) so I wasn't too concerned as this was intended to be temporary quarters while our home was to be constructed. Life events changed my plan and the home was never built and then some local juveniles decided it would be fun to torch my cabin. There it now sits as a half burned-out shell.
In hindsight, the posts should have had a full-moment connection to the concrete piers (that only came up to ground level) and not just a single bolt into the concrete. Further, all 6 posts should have been tied to each other with the plywood box beams I described above.
The only advantage to what I had constructed was that everything other than the doors, windows, skylights & roofing were scrounged materials.
That boxing in those posts would definitely have made a difference! I did something similar but just OSB face nailed to the posts and it made a big difference.
If you can´t get a concrete truck up to your job site, you could bring cinder blocks and bags of concrete instead.
That's what I'm doing 😉
You could pack some hydraulic cement in and around the bolt you speak of so that the hydraulic cement is fully between the concrete pier block and the bottom of your galvanized 4x4 post bracket.
Tell me more? Would this require basically building the pier up to the saddle?
@TheOldJarhead Hydraulic cement or non-shrink grout. When I posted about Hydraulic cement I couldn't remember the name of the product I was thinking about. What I should have said using is non-shrink grout. Basically, if you don't know, non-shrink grout will not reduce in size after it hardens. So, if you were to provide form work from the top of your concrete pier block up to and around the saddle it should provide some extra stability. I would even go so far as to make a wider formwork around the pier block beginning at the base of the pier block, say an extra 3 to 4 inches wider on all sides of the pier block and bring this formwork up to and including the saddle and fill it with non-shrink grout.
In addition, I would even dig down around all 4 sides of the saddle a few inches (doing this one at a time of course) and fill this trench up with packed sand and or cementitious gravel. This would provide a wider and more solid base for your non-shrink grout. If you do bring the non-shrink grout up around the saddle I would suggest coating your wood posts with some tar or other such waterproofing prior to finishing with the non-shrink grout near and around the saddle.Also after packing the sand/ gravel base then wet it down just prior to adding the non-shrink grout.
It may even be advisable to do one pier at a time while supporting with temporary shoring any nearby structure, then remove the post and saddle, the pier block and then dig down to just below frost for a proper base and support for your re-installed pier block, saddle and post and the non-shrink grout technique described earlier.
Thank you for sharing such detailed insights! Your suggestions on using non-shrink grout and creating a solid base are super helpful for anyone looking to ensure stability in their projects.
Good advice!
Thanks!
Live and learn, I could have given you great advice if I'd known you sooner lol
lol, I bet. Heck, I could give me great advice if I could go back in time.
Excellent video!!! Very good information!
Thank you! I appreciate the feedback!
We built our story and a half, 25 by 31 foot, recycled log house 40 plus years ago on a isolated hill site on very well drained soil without going to the 4 foot (plus) frost line. It has never "moved". We made a "grade beam" foundation - a 2 foot high, 2 foot on center, stud wall of foundation grade pressure treated southern yellow pine 2 by 4's sheathed with 1/2 inch pressure treated plywood with a treated 2 by 6 for the footer (all painted on the inside / foundation coating on the outside) set a foot or so into the ground directly on leveled, undisturbed soil.... made it into a "plem-wood" foundation with a section of wide air duct to just below the ceiling behind the centrally located wood stove ( for heat shield) open on top connected to a under floor furnace fan pulling air into the crawl space warming the floor and then back into the living area through a 3/8 inch gap between the floor and log walls. It works especially well to first heat up the house then the quiet and sound of the wood burning in the stove is far better than fan noise. Yes! much satisfaction can be had building your own house in the forest. A simple foundation on a good site helps to get the project going.
That’s awesome! Your place sounds super cozy and well thought out. Love that you built it all yourself-seriously, major respect!
My house is underground. Here on the coast of maine. 45-49° year round . But, during the summer it does tend to warm up.
I've known some with ug homes and they usually maintain a pretty steady temp
@@TheOldJarhead I only heat with wood. No back up.
I use wood at the cabin but have a backup heater for those cold winter days I arrive and it's below freezing (well below) in the cabin and I need some help getting it warmed up before bedtime lol
Post and beam or post and pier generally requires and perimeter foundation.
Or deeply placed piers. I made a mistake but I've mostly fixed it since ;) I'm actually working on replacing it though with a footing/stem wall foundation as time and my body allows.
My cabin is 10 years old and we have zero issues. I put a big rock on the bottom of each hole and placed a 6x6 in the hole. No concrete. I have them spaced every 3 feet. You went up too high using thin 4x4s spaced too far apart. The first mistake people make is following the building inspector and county engineers... I paid only for the 6x6. You and I are at different income levels. You got lots of money!
LOL I don't have lots of money ;) Though at the time I had a good job. But I agree that 6x6's would have been much better and more bracing for sure!
@TheOldJarhead You have a lot of money. Some people want to live "off-grid" but have everything a normal house has. Some people live off-grid for simplicity and freedom. I have one battery from Walmart for my solar system. We can charge phones and run computers. You have an expensive solar system, so you can run microwaves and coffee pots. No crime in having money. We're just different that way, so we approach things differently. That foundation was WAY too complicated with WAY too many parts for WAY too much money. That foundation you built is something that would have never even crossed my mind. Just poor white trash here!
lol Ivguess money is subjective. To me, I don't have lots, but I sacrificed much to afford building. Then I continued to spend less and save so I could upgrade. Now, the foundation can work. It just needed more knowledge than I had 😉
@@TheOldJarhead Life is a constant learning experience! Now you know. Globally, you have more money than the vast population on the Earth. No crime in having money. I just don't have much of it!
Globally, all Americans are wealthy, but I agree!
Built 12x12 post/beam deck 4 ft high and it wobbled so bad I was afraid to walk on it. I Had to stiffen it up with braces that made it stable.
You’ve got to brace that sucker!
Based off the cost of concrete, form work, dirt work, rebar/ wire mesh, etc, a stem wall foundation is about 2-3x the price. Not sure who is calculating these costs.
I found it odd myself.
I installed motion lights under a shed to keep the animals away 👍
I have some myself so might help
@TheOldJarhead the one I have setup has the solar panel and light connected by a wire, so I can install the light in the dark and the panel is exposed to the sun during the day. My other ones are all in one kinda things✌️🇨🇦
Gotcha.
I used to guide at youth camps up in the Canadian bush and everything was post and pier built on solid rock seeing as how we were located on the Canadian Shield where there’s not much dirt. But I would be hesitant to use that method to build a personal cabin. I’d prefer to pour a concrete pad then put up a prefabricated metal building so I didn’t have the wind blowing underneath the cabin. I like Pioneer brand galvalume huts preferably the arched style but the quonset round buildings are nice as well even if they don’t have the peak gables like a Swiss chalet or what not.
Solid rock is a different beast than most soils, that's for sure.
@@TheOldJarhead Absolutely. Up in northern Ontario they don’t even know what dirt is. It’s like being up in the mountains so piers are the only way to build.
Makes sense
@@TheOldJarhead I used to refer to myself on one blog as “Bubblehead Marc” because I used to be submarine sailor. If you’re a jarhead then apparently you were in the Marines. We had marines guarding the submarine tender out in Guam where submarine squadron 15 is located.
Yes sir, 86 - 91 with 2nd Light Armored Infantry. Semper Fi!
@Adam Roby
I am guessing having skirting that goes down to the ground would also not help much since these critters will just dig under the skirts? I guess it would at least help somewhat with the wind. Great video as always.
You should dig a footer to sit you skirts it should keep critters out and you should also put down a thick moisture barrier down in your crawl space. Extra protection plus keeps mold down.
I think it would help but the footing and cinderblock wall would be ideal, I may skirt before the winter though just to help keep things warm until I finish the new foundation.
Any thoughts on the Japanese technique of hikari-tsuke? They mate the end of a timber post to the top of a boulder in a way that perfectly matches the rounded contour of the rock.
Would love that but never heard if it before
I built in Northwest Montana and used railroad ties studded the bottom end with 20d nails. drilled down 4' . Plumbed them and poured concrete around them. left them proud of the ground 5' and built a balloon framed 12' walled 16x24' OSB sheeted. Sheeted the posts under the cabin and used it as a basement had a second level for an upstairs bedroom area had a shed roof dormer. this was in 1989. it is still in use today and has been since it was closed in. The posts have been very stable for all these years.
Nice!
I used rigid foam under the floor. My posts are telephone poles.
That should work great!
If you wanted simple, why didn't you just put in a ruble trench foundation. The compacted rock will last centuries and has no place to go. It provides natural drainage, and if you install a good french drain to carry away the water. This method has been used on buildings that have lasted centuries, some of them massive. Doing something as small as a cabin wouldn't be a problem.
Didn't know enough at the time 😉 post and pier I understood but just didn't have experience or knowledge to do as well as I would of liked.
@TheOldJarhead we all have to learn from our mistakes. I know I certainly had to. If we are lucky, we can learn from the wisdom of others. And of course, often there are several different ways to do the job. Concrete foundation, rubble trench foundation, pier foundation. All any of us can do really is try to make the best choice for our own situation.
Personally, I'm still looking for a piece of land to build a 2-story 16x24 tiny house with a basement. Lol, after 4 kids and 6 grandkids(so far), I'm looking to seriously down size and drop everything i can into trust. Out far enough in the woods, all I can hear is the birds singing and still drive to the store when I need to.
We all have forgotten too much technology today. Too few people remember how to even filter water on their own or store eggs without a fridge. I've been trying to find Edison batteries for years, but it's almost impossible to find them anymore. But in the end, I'll set up a bank of them even if I have to build them myself.
Agreed! And I have two of the old wooden Model T batteries! Would be fine to try to revive them.
I agree 100% I built a cabin on power line polls . It was solid as a rock . We insulated the floors and put plywood down underneath, the critters still got into the insulation. I had plans to add on but decided that it would need a foundation. We dugout the footings jacked the cabin up put the foam block down and pumped it full of concrete. Way more expensive and time consuming . I look back and think of how hard it was and know now that we should have done it right the first time.
Now it’s not a cabin we call it the lake house it has a full basement with 3 story’s above it , 4 bedrooms a well and a septic system… with real flushing toilets, a real hose but I tell the new guys do it right the first time don’t do it the way I did. I was 25 when we started it now I’m 65 and it’s still not done .🫣 it’s been a labor of love and I wouldn’t change a thing.
Nice job
If you have p-traps and plumbing, it's not a cabin, it's a house. Building in a remote area, a place hard to reach, limited resources, no plumbing, that's a cabin.
LOL matter of opinion I think. Cabin's are just small houses in the middle of no where.
Sheetrock on the outside?
nope T111
Build a wrap around porch/deck that has concrete post. Two birds, one stone.
Wrap around porch is in the works ;) but I'll finish the foundation under the cabin while doing it (that's how I started, pour a footing, build a stem wall, frame up under the cabin, add porch deck and move on. Just have to do it a few more times ;) Cheers
@@TheOldJarhead that's smart. Good luck, sounds like a ton of work.
Thank you! It definitely requires a lot of effort, but I’m excited for the challenge ahead!
Lay it horizontal and dig it into the ground it will take a long time before it rust
Lay what?
Courragated metal siding
@raymondpeters9186 Ahhh yes. Good idea
If you want to go crazy you can glue XPS hard board insulation on the back side of the courragated metal siding
Metal siding is fireproof and blocks the wind
@raymondpeters9186 Eventually, I plan to finish the foundation and insulate it, but this would be a good way to seal up the crawl space.
Dig a hole and put in 9' foot walls. Noone is ever unhappy that they have a basement. NO ONE!
lol true but no. I'm happy with footings and stemwalls
You didnt brace correctly. You brace like and x from post to post. That eliminates flex. I just finished a buukd like this but used 6x6 and braced well. Mine is two stories and no movement. Try to make the largest triangles possible.
Agreed
I am a mason if there are rocks in the area truck in sand and some cement bags and I will hand mix and build my own piers. The one problem with today is not so much the technique it is the fact life and modern technology makes us believe easier and quicker is better. Sure you got it built in a short amount of time but 20-30-years of it nagging at you no thanks. Like I said a mason the job either way is hard do it once do it right overbuild and enjoy your endeavor I never liked Harbor freight or walmart and cheap products a foundation holds all the meticulous framing and work that comes after do not neglect the foundation everything above suffers.Enjoy your work Don't allow the Rat race mentality and anxiety steal the joy you should have making a memory home
Amen!
A proper pier system is superior to slab on grade. Basement would be ideal but if you want a quick, cheap foundation pier is the way to go. Im talking 10-12ft below grade and 3-4 ft diameter.
Settling for half-measures seldom results in satisfaction!
However, when one doesn't know their chosen build is considered "a half measure" by some they have to 'live and learn'. Of course, I'm sure you've never made any bad decisions :D
Could You Screw Hardy Backer Board under the Floor to encase Your Insulation and deter Rodents from invading ?
Yes, or even plywood, however then it would breathe and would be a mold maker. Some use peg board, which may be easier and cheaper than hardware cloth, and I've thought about trying it.
Or corrugated metal siding
Mice might be able to sneak in the grooves
It looks like you did so many things wrong with this build I don't know where to start. You started with the wrong base in your holes, size of post, build larger than your Beams, I have a post and pier system on the Gulf Coast and been through many hurricanes no movement. Your start (foundation) is key.
It could definitely been better though it's been through heavy winds and done just fine. 15 years and still doing it's job. I regret doing it because I could have done it better ;) That's why I made the video, to warn others but I'm also fixing it and today, it's quite stable.
For that build. 8x8 at least
I think 6x6 may have worked but ya, bigger is better.
I would have you build me a cabin. There is nothing like real life experience.
A cabin? Only if you promise to provide the snacks and coffee! I need my fuel for all that hard work!
It’s because u didn’t put any 4x4or6x6 skids under it that’s the real problem
It rests on two 4x8s
@ both way’s sitting on top of each other notched together
@ it needs at least one every 3 ft like skid plates go by any place that sells small buildings and look under them they have at least 4 skid plates down the length and then 2 x6 every 18 inches notched out 2 inches on the skid plates
@ and then when u get 2 the top of the wall put 3 2x4 s with varying seams that’s called a king plate never put ur studs more than 18 inches on center I promise there is nothing wrong with the foundation system u just didn’t build well on top of it
@ if RUclips would let me put pictures in the comments I would show u how to build a cabin that would hold up to 120 mph wind
Well just from a common sense viewpoint you eliminated all your stability but putting your cabin on stilts. You brought the cabin up then put the entire weight on a dozen 3/4” bolts. Usually you can use those on decks but the deck is attached to a house. Post and beam perfectly acceptable but use 4x6 and metal plates that let the posts sit on the concrete cylinder. It’s all about surface area holding and displacing the weight uniformly.
Agreed.
A lot of talking for so little information. To be clear the post and pier foundation he shows is weak against lateral loads. The bracing shown looks good but is weak.
And in all that talking isn't that pretty much what he said?
I think this is a good reason to not do the things that you have done, rather than an honest evaluation of the the cons of a post and pier foundation. I can not imagine installing drains hanging in free space below the insulated floor. I can't imagine installing staple up insulation without a solid barrier against rodents, let alone not getting around to installing hardware cloth. Crap, you haven't even finished the wall behind you, where you have artistically hung some ancient tools. Your bracing of your foundation looks foolishly inefficient.
In all fairness, the cabin doesn't move anymore, and after 15 years, I'd say it's doing ok. Many have built foundations like this and are happy with them. Then, of course, it had been over 15 years since I last framed, so I was learning again. Now, the wall behind me? I'm guessing you are new to my channel, so first, welcome! Second, I'm a disabled veteran who currently can't stand long enough to finish it right away, but I will! Stay tuned.
@@TheOldJarhead I'm sorry that with your disability that you can't stand long enough to get things done. But I'll stand by my assessment. Your problems were largely a result of poor decisions that you made, rather than being intrinsic to the foundation system that you chose. I guess that I can thank you in that I still expect to use Post and Pier, but given my financial situation, I'll probably be able to over-engineer it so that I won't face the issues that you have encountered.
And therin is the reason for the video. As I mentioned, I know post and piers can be done right, and I regret not doing mine better. I want people to know of my mistakes and my successes in hopes that they help others. Now, my disabilities slow me down, but I'm a marine. They won't stop me! Right now, I'm recovering from two badly slipped discs and likely a cracked vertebrae, so it's hard to finish things, but I keep atvit.
Bad design from the start. Next time, do it properly.
We all make choices that we later regret. Some just don't admit it :) Me? I'm ok with making poor decisions as long as I learn from them and those who say they have nothing to learn, are lying.
I just can’t imagine cheaping out on a foundation. Build ur house on a rock.
It's more a case of just not knowing butvits a cabin not a house 😉 but still, it's held up for 15 years as is with the extra foundation work I've already done.
Sounds like your foundation was not properly sized for the job. Consult an engineer for better results. Poor design and poor workmanship give these results.
I agree it was inadequate, which, as I mentioned, is why I'm changing it 😉
How could you manage to do everything so wrong you should have poured a footer then form a short wall up out of the ground off the footer and put your house on top of that then bolt it down solid steel pipe piers in the middle that can jack up if needed to cheap way not always the best I beam down the middle would be best think about it Marines should know better I'm one Semper Fi
Regret isn't the same as "I did it all wrong". The cabin has held up nicely for 15 years and while I am improving it, one can argue the only thing I did wrong was no put in enough bracing. Semper Fi Marine.