How about an alternate history where not only did Australia loose the great emu war but the emus retaliated by Marching into the city of perth uprooting the government and start a facist rule over western Australia slowly expanding twords eastern Australia and south aisa hoping to someday rule all of earth and become the dominant species.
Well, I know one thing and it is if Rome didn't exist we wouldn't have jokes about Caeser's death. And a world without Caeser jokes is more terrifying than getting stabbed in the back.
I feel you may have underestimated Carthage. Please; let me explain; In archaeological excavations of old Carthage, it was determined that a major factor in The Punic ability to produce ships so quickly was the design of it's harbor. Modern thinkers believed that Carthage's harbor positioned ships in several stages of construction along what we today would call an assembly line. It has been theorized that a great deal of production in the cities of the Phoenicians was managed in similar processes, which would help explain their economic resurgence after the first Punic war when Rome's sanctions should have financially broken them (Iberian mines and all). Furthermore, it has been noted in Roman records that the Punic ships were easy to reverse engineer as they had been made by the use of interchangeable parts and labeled for assembly. These 2 factors: assembly lines and interchangeable parts (allowing for unskilled labor to be used en mass for production of goods) would not be seen again until almost 2,000 years later in the industrial revolution. Politically, expansion would probably be very subtle, but in your alternate history, you surmised that progress would be slow. It is my contention that if these factors necessary for mass production were introduced to the world 2,000 years before they were, progress might have actually been quite rapid, and with the diplomacy-first attitude of the Phoenician traders, the potential for cooperative technological innovation and industrial expansion coming earlier in history than the 19th century are actually much better. Thank you for your time.
That's a good point, specially since Carthage was the closest thing to a capitalist entity that existed at that time... it is rumored that greeks had steam engines, but were merely a curiosity to mystify people. The pieces are there, an accident away from meeting. Furthermore, I understand that romans were not particularly interested in intensifying productivity, simply because it was just easier to get more slaves. Carthaginians would have bought industrialization immediately, and make profits selling mass produced stuff to everyone.
It's important to keep in mind that this idea of "mass production" being evoked is merely a rhetorical device to help us get a familiar perspective of how they did things. What the carthaginians had was a very "proto" form of the idea being discussed. Remember, the Carthaginians were primarily traders, and colonizers (I hate the politically charged use of that term these days.) But they were not particularly warlike. Rome defeated them yes, and in this scenario Rome isn't around, but Carthage surviving doesn't mean some other empire couldn't do the same. I love Carthage to death, I fancy over it 6 ways to Sunday. I'm so biased to Carthage it's not even a contest lol. *but* if I'm going to be honest in my opinion here, I would be remiss to point out that all the mass production of ships in the world won't change anything if they don't have the sailors, marines and warriors to crew them and back up a navy that large. They had the largest navy at the time, and they still lost to Roman Ingenuity. If they doubled the size of their fleet, would they have had the warriors needed to man them? Given their societal focus, I'm guessing not. Then there is the method by which they fought, the Phalanx. Much of the world used the Phalanx at that time. Greeks, some Gauls, Carthaginians, even Rome and the Etruscans/Samnites. If anyone else ever devised a different form of fighting akin to the Manipular system and Triplex Aces, then Carthage would be in trouble again. I struggle to envision a world where they persist as long or even half as long as Rome did unfortunately. Their production ability revelation you've brought forth isn't something I knew before, but it also didn't save them from Roman conquest 😕
@@alexanderrahl7034 their army was also majorly composed of hired mercenaries so the loyalty of the ground troops would come into question as soon as the pay got delayed- it was a big problem for rome and they had professional armies who were more disciplined and loyal to the state initially. and i don;t believe carthage was as centrally organized being more concerned with setting up trading posts almost semi-autonomous as long as they paid their dues to carthage so i don;t think the unity and sense of nation would be as strong as rome's. as an interesting minor twist though. if there's no rome or first punic war then Archimedes wouldn't have died after syracuse fell so who knows what additional technological creations he could have come up with which could have improved the technological base of a still stable carthagian empire which could have further altered their chances of long term success. though the threat of attack from the southern tribes in africa would be similar to the gaulish threat to rome and limit any thoughts of further expansion south. just that they had the defense of the sahara instead of the alps but also more area to defend. i don;t think they would have had as large or long term effect as rome like you say either in effect on europe or overall staying power. i do think they would have been rivals to egypt in north africa for a long time until they lost their naval advantage to keep europe at bay. and egypt would block expansion to the east. but anything in europe would be swept away by the european tribes after a couple centuries at most around when they started butting heads with rome probably around gauis marius through caesar's time. they might have expanded along the west coast of africa though setting up trading posts along the way more than likely (being the only real direction a sea power could take under the circumstances) with a very remote possibility if so of accidently finding the americas like one of the other videos here mentioned happening (i think it was the "what if the muslims kept spain" one) though their vessels at the time probably weren't up to the task. probably needed a few hundred more years for any hope of that happening
@@jper4911 the further into the future you ever look for these "what if" scenarios, the more you need to anticipate. Carthage even surviving an extra 100 years comes with a ton of extra possibilities both good and bad. It's likely they would have expanded I to Iberia, since they already were at the time. And honestly, Egypt was a shell of its former self by then. Carthage may not conquer it, but they would likely eclipse it economically and culturally. Without Rome however, you need to consider Epirus and the Greek colonies of Italy and how they would have gone. The Etruscans and Senones as well. Carthage definitely wouldn't discover America, that's almost entirely certain. But they could very well contact and colonize along the west coast of Africa and Europe, and possibly even as far as India assuming their empire was stable and wealthy enough to support such long-term and expensive endeavors. Even if they did discover America, and that's a big big IF, nothing would have come of it. It may have been a footnote in history even. The journey would likely be a year long affair to get there and back, maybe more. And for what? A land with no immediate discernable resources that make the trip worth it, and a large population of hostile barbarians. "No Thanks, we have plenty of those here." A colony needs time and investment. Tons of resources and settlers, constant attention, and by the time it's self sufficient, if it's not bringing back something to make the trip worthwhile, it's abandoned as a failure. Which almost any ancient power surely would have done. The America's they would likely have found, just wouldn't have had anything they wanted, and plenty they didn't.
Also in the Fallout series in this timeline the New California Republic would fight a different ancient civilization's reincarnation in Fallout: New Vegas. I would think it would be ancient Egypt or Greece (Alexander)
You forget that the presence of the Greeks in western Mediterranean was very strong . If someone would interact with Gaul it would be the Greeks . They controlled almost half of the southern coast of what is France today . Colonies like Massilia(Marseilles), Antipolis(Antibes), Mounichos(Monaco) and Nicaea(Nice) were all Greek . Also there were many trade outposts of the Greeks in the Iberian . Some of them were located in what is today Catalunya such as Emporeion(Empuries) and Hemeroskopeion.
He also forgot Pyrrhus of Epirus and his adventures in Southern Italy. If there were no Romans in the way, his quest to remake Alexander's Empire in the West would've been far more successful. It surely would have been a Hellenic Europe, not a Carthaginian/Celtic one.
@@PatriotGabe I highly doubt that, Carthage is not an easy opponent, Rome couldn't defeat Carthage on its own and needed the Numidian tribes to coordinate an Attack on Western Tunisia whilst Hannibal was crossing the Alps north of Italy, if Rome never existed Carthage would've had the trust of the Numidian Berbers and their Military strength would've been quadrupled, eastern Med. would've remained mostly Greek but Carthage would've explored many other regions and maybe even discovered the Americas since they were excellent at exploring and trading.
@@mouath_14 I doubt Carthage would've bothered going north much beyond Iberia and Hannibal only went into Italy because of Rome, Carhage would've been a power in the Southwest Mediterranean and maybe even the Atlantic but the Northwest would've been contested with the Greeks
@@PatriotGabe And you're forgetting that Celts sacked the Oracle of Delphi itself, and that northern Europe has terrain basically custom designed to ruin phalanx warfare. A Celtic Europe would be fairly plausible in the absence of Rome, albeit the Greek CULTURAL influence could still lead to the rise of nation states (and this is without going into the significant amount of what we associate with medieval Europe that came from Germanic culture rather than Roman which would have still been present at the "medieval" point in this alternative timeline)
Just like Babylon, crazy to think cities/civilisation can just be snuffed out and forgotten; I wonder how many ‘mythic’ things actually existed, or civilisations who have been completely forgotten.
@@kallmannkallmann , yeah, most of them never got the hang of writing, right? I wonder how they managed to build big empires, complex cities, and administrate all that without writing. Must have either had remarkable memory or some super efficient system.
Well, we do know of African empires, most of which where trade, or wealth based, like Carthage, I dare say there would be some, if not many, we do not currently know of simply due to it being lost to history, much like the likes of Troy, or Atlantis.
@@theconeezeanemperor1619 A libertarian writer I read said that nations of peace and freedom were lost to history simply because they weren't conquering other nations and weren't driven to create permanent monuments dedicated to the state.
Bit of a nit pick, but Britain remained culturally Celtic, just Romanized. It was the later Anglo-Saxon invasion that pushed the Celts back to Scotland, Ireland and Cornwall. And Wales.
Correction; its more accurate to say that western and northern Britons were just less Romanized and later Anglocized than the rest of mainland Britain, rather then to say the celts were "pushed back". DNA studies in the UK have shown that people live surprisingly close to where their tribal ancestors would have.
Would Asians besides the Native Siberians find their way to the Americas easier? Would they colonize or not? Would Russia colonize Alaska harder, leaving a more pronounced Russian remnant behind? Would they even sell the area in the first place? If they did sell it, would they sell more than they did, or less? Would there be a network of military bases and Nuclear Silos there for the Cold War? I don’t know, but I want a video.
I'm surprised nothing was said about roads. Not having Rome's roads sprawled across Europe would have massively mitigated immigration/emigration, land-based trade, and cultural mixing that resulted from having an easy travel network across much of the continent.
the romans didn't invent roads... not even straight ones. What the romans did was enslave or displace enough people that today we appreciate it to be the cultural mixing that you speak of. Tribes of celts weren't particularly interested in migrating and emigrating, although evidence suggests that they were very closely linked from a cultural perspective - indeed much more so than this video seems to appreciate. Celtic europe seems, by archaeology, to have resembled the city-state model of greece much more than the romans cared to write about (they favoured the savage barbarian view of things). I mean, there is evidence that wool and pottery made on the british isles was findings its way down the silk road long before rome even started to wonder if britain was more than a myth.... you don't see that unless there are trading networks and roads, cultural mixing and all those good things going on
@@pergys6991 yes there is a lot of truth in that comment, but I'm tempted to point out a reminder that it was likely not the case that they did this deliberately. I mean, at the very least they didnt leave Latium with the express intention to go and find the best stuff and learn from it they set out to conquer and everything else that happened was out of necessity and in most cases having to make the best of the cards that were dealt
@LagiNaLangAko23 we'd be safe in NZ. Emus can't cross the Tasman. HAH! Poor Aussies. You can envision the great Golden Emu statues, with Australians toiling the soil in chains, being barked at by commander Emus in SS uniforms.. It's actually quite beautiful from where I'm sitting :DD
I can't help but wonder at the idea of Carthage teaching the Celt tribes the value of writing. Dear god, the amount of folklore alone from the oral traditions would fill libraries. As someone of Irish descent, I have to say I wouldn't mind seeing that world. Wouldn't mind it at all.
@@EndranExit If they were like the Persians they probably wouldn't have bothered to write down any of their oral literature and it would have remained frustratingly lost in the present.
What's more interesting is how the world religions will turn out. It was the Romans who propagated Christianity as their political tool. WIthout romans, Europe might be full Islam or might have a whole new religion.
@@dharmdevil i think without the romans, paganism would have stayed a prominent feature in europe, by that i mean all regional religions possibly even some hunnic religion because with rome gone i do not think the celts and germanics were strong/united enough to hold of the huns. with a strong greece and carthage and a strong egypt instead of a weakend roman empire wich was overstretched i do not believe islam would have even spread over north africa let alone into europe
Something to keep in mind is that after Rome took Carthage out, they turned the province of Africa into their breadbasket. That whole area was clear-cut for massive farmland to feed Rome, making Africa the number one source of food in the Roman Empire, but also causing the Sahara Desert to double in size (or moreso) because of the incredible amounts of erosion caused now that there were no tree roots to hold the dirt in place. Rome's centralized measures meant massive growth of the city itself. Carthage's more decentralized nature would mean a smaller capital city and consequently less of a need to bring in large gobs of food to feed it. There's a good chance that the Sahara Desert would be much smaller today than it is in reality, especially if the Carthaginians began undertaking public works to build rivers and plant trees/orchards/etc. in an effort to make room for (and yes, feed) the expanding Carthaginian Empire's population. They would, after all, have a much greater incentive to take care of the place because they actually live there.
@James Holborow, I do not mean Egypt. Egypt was its own province. Africa was Carthage/Tunisia and eastward to the border with Egypt. It wasn't always the name of the whole continent.
If any city was completely annihilated, then it was Carthage for sure. Legends say that the Romans even plowed the earth after they completely removed the city to make sure not a single bit of it remained.
@@michaelweston409 Atlantis is only ever mentioned by one ancient writer (Plato) as a fictional island. This comes from a time of early/non-existent written words that have been pieced together and possibly mistranslated. There are obvious underwater ruins, but at least they are still around.
To jump on this I learned in ancient history that they actually salted the cities they conquered to make sure nothing would grow and the land was useless. So they must've done something
COMMUNISM FOR EVERYONE!! No, but it was just an idea that I had. For the common man to bring up his moral sence, and bring the world to peace by disobeying the orders of his generals and officers.
It would happened anyways. The tension was so big to stop there. Even if there was a truce for 3 or 4 years that wouldn't last. It's like the WW2: It didn't started bc of Hitler. It started bc of the german hate to almost everyone.
Such absolute bullshit, Kianture. I bet you think Hitler started WW1 as well. Germany didn't even start the conflict. And WW2 was a reaction of the brutal treatment of the Allies against Germany.
This is probably one of my most favorite What If scenarios ever! Truly, the world would never be the same as it is in our timeline if Rome never existed, and I am really eager to see what more would be changed! I can't wait to see the next video! :)
Yeah cuz everything we know about western civilization is completely altered. Just the thought of Christianity and the current romance languages being gone is crazy to think of
Cultish we think Irish Scottish and Cornish. No mention of Wales? That’s an entire Celtic nation left out, one with the oldest Celtic language left alive today
Poor old Wales! He didn't list them, and even missed them off the map at 11:23! Oddly enough he was very good at including the Cornish and Bretons, who aren't even independent countries today!
@@LightForxes Hahahahah lol, Eastern Europe isn't influenced by Turkish people for more than 100 years they're still poor and behind in technology compared to Turkey or any proper country, i guess Turkish people are better off without them.
Vinod Renz The Balkans were divided between the Byzantines, Serbia, and Bulgaria. If we assume Anatolia never unites, that gives breathing room for a European power (presumably either the Greeks or Serbians) to take control of the Balkans and Anatolia. If any of the Slavic powers becomes dominant and conquers Constantinople, you can bet that they’re going to pretend to be the next Roman Empire. Though, unlike the Turks claiming to be the successors of Rome, it might actually be taken seriously by Christians. Ie. Byzantium effectively wins and reforms its empire no matter who wins the power struggle one way or another.
@@alexiosi2646 I see you are aware of the most recent research. Was anybody actually Celtic? It could well be that being 'Celtic' was more a cultural thing than anything to do with genetics, as there is no evidence of an actual huge influx of people from the continent to the island of Britain before the Romans came. It seems the Welsh are actually descended from the first Mesolithic settlers to Britain after the end of the last ice age c 10,000 years ago. However, if it was just a cultural thing, then yes, the Ancient Britons were very definitely Celtic. The uploader on the other hand is way out of date with his thinking.
We already wouldn't have pizza without the Americas, as that's where tomato comes from. So without Rome with flatbread and toppings, there wouldn't even be a precursor to pizza. I find that much more terrifying.
@Te C-Jones Tomato was used by the Aztecs...no need for Europe. But yea without italy there woud prob be a diffrent type of pizza. Pizza is a rly simple idea, have bread and put stuff on it.... Yes that alternative pizza woud be nowhere close to ours but that it woud never exist in that relatity is not 100%
Why is it when there's no nation state, people like to say it's horrible It's not Money is an invention that says this guy is poor and this guy is Rich, even though many people in stateless territory use commodity money
One of the main reasons why the Romans clashed and hated the Gauls was due to the first sack of Rome and the battle of Allia by the Celtic King Brennus.
one of my favourite quotes from my school years is from a legend born in that struggle: Non auro sed ferro recuperanda est Patria. Marco Furio Camillo (not with gold, but with iron, will the fatherland be regained)
Ejem: Greeks, Phoenicians, Cartagineses, Iberians, Celts... They are all prior to the Romans, and they weren't exactly barbaric, though they mostly formed city-states.
@JoJo is not an anime You do know that the Russians had a great interest in the Middle East too don't you... While I am not sticking up for the USA, only pointing out, that due to their oil reserves, somebody was going to control the Middle East, one way or another...
This is too complicated. If the USA stayed out of WW1, Germany may have won, or at least not lost. This would have changed the entire dynamic which lead to WW2. Korea and Vietnam were about fighting off Communism, which was a product of WW1 and WW2.
@@amogususus12 You say the world would be a better place, but no, no! You are terribly mistaken, this statement so erroneous that its mere utterance has slightly diminished the very soul of humanity. You say the world would be a better place, but where, I ask you, would we get our canned cheese?!
‘Ireland, Scotland and Cornwall’, Do Americans really think about Cornwall as Celtic before they think about Wales. Cornwall, whose language was so close to extinction, whose population is a sixth of Wales’, and has no autonomous government and has no special status as a nation.
@@lukewoodsdelacy2777 Pasties were actually invented in South Wales, then because they're mining food they got very popular in Cornwall. We call them Ogies.
@@Bus_Driver_Jay What are you on mate? Brythonic is just a different type of Celtic culture to Gaelic. Both are Celtic. Wales is arguably far more 'Celtic' than Scotland; it having formed from Germanic and Norse influence on top of the native culture.
Then America wouldn't exsist, which would suck, because that's litterally the only reason Britain isn't a completely worthless (I'm not being serious, Britain has alot of good shit)
I am fascinated by this concept. Does anyone have any reading suggestion about this topic? The people that were there before the romans, or even the very perspective of a Europe without Rome?
I don't know if you still remember that comment lmao, but I'm making a story where the world takes place exactly in a reality where the Roman Empire doesn't exist, not only that, but like the Indo-Europeans themselves. So it would be a before people who lived before the people before rome haha
The western coastal tribes of Europe were an epicenter of maritime trade, wealth, and culture in the Celtic world. If history had taken this alternate course, it's probable that of all the Celts, *these tribes* specifically would've been the most actively engaged in learning from their Carthaginian trading partners and would've led they way in adopting sophisticated civilization. Then eastern France and southern Britain could've come under the rule of a developing Celtic empire.
And the Greeks. Remember that Rome smashed and took over the Hellenistic world. If not for Rome then the Hellenistic Kingdoms would likely have survived for much longer and Greek culture would have continued to be predominant. And as you mention the Celts may have taken the place of Germanic people's in our own timeline. Celtic invasions into Iberia, Italy, the Balkans, Greece and Anatolia took place historically. It's entirely possible that even great expansion would occur without Roman conquest. But the Germans would also have likely expanded into Celtic lands regardless. But certainly Britain would not have been conquered by Germanic peoples without Rome conquering it first.
One slight correction, Wales is a celtic nation within western Europe as well, in fact its the only one to have kept its native celtic language in any meaningful way.
Dude, you know a lot about the Greeks and Romans, but almost nothing about the Gauls, and as they're an important part of this story, I thought I'd comment in detail. First off, it's not your fault you don't know about the Gauls, it's mostly the fault of our language barrier. The last 30 years has seen some significant archaeological finds in France and Germany, finds that put the lie to most Roman accounts of Gaul. The only place that's really breaking through right now is in pop history like Terry Jones Barbarians, or in more questionable works like Graham Robb's The Discovery of Middle Earth which does need to be taken with some salt. But it turns out, if you are a Roman writing about Gaul, the vast majority of what you're saying is either made up, based on misconception, or an outright lie. The Romans are simply not accurate historians as it relates to the Gauls. Because they didn't care about them or their culture or their history. The primary sources from the era simply cannot be trusted. The Native Americans comparison here is apt. American historians generally don't write about native Americans. History begins at Jamestown, and everything before then is just lost to the mists of time. Except it isn't, there is history there, and science as well (Nixtamalization as a quick example.) Due to trade with the Greeks and with Carthage, the Gauls were actually scientifically more advanced than the Romans in a number of areas. Just not warfare. We know this from recent archaeology. For example, you have the Coligny Calendar, which more than a lunisolar calendar was a primitive calculator, which was accurately helping them plan harvests while the Romans were celebrating the beginning of spring in the middle of August. Other archaeological finds like the Vix grave show just how fantastically wealthy the Gauls were. The person who owned that property may have been the most fantastically wealthy individual of her day. Yes her. The Lady of Vix was some sort of trading queen with tastes about as subtle as Donald Trump, if the Vix Krater, the largest known metal vessel from classical antiquity is any indication. It was made by craftsmen in Greece or Etruria. The reason that she didn't have local, arguably more advanced Gaulish metalsmiths make it (these are folks who wore clothing spun through with gold, as their smiths could manufacture gold thread) is, we assume, about having "fuck you" money. The point wasn't just to have the biggest, 1100 liter wine vessel for parties on the planet, the point was to flaunt the wealth it took to hire mercenaries to get it from Etruria or Greece through hostile territory overrun by raiding Gauls or Mediterranean pirates to southern France. The point seems to be a statement of "When I ship it, it will fucking get where its going even if we have to pave the trackways red with the blood of thieves." (Edit: this sentence was truncated for some reason. YT isn't really set up for long comments.) The reason it took so much longer for us to find these archaeological sites is because of the Gaulish tendency to prefer wood. So a lot of the archaeological finds have been massive wooden structures with intact basements and a layer of char on top. Because wood doesn't do so well when Romans show up to burn everything. Caesar's conquest of Gaul had more to do with the fact that the Gauls were fantastically wealthy traders themselves, and Rome was broke. And we know all this from archaeology done in the last three or so decades, most of it in French, so it hasn't really broken through into the Anglophone world. But we know now that almost all European roads attributed to the Romans simply paved over in stone, when they'd originally been wooden trackways. Identically constructed trackways have been found in both Ireland and Germany, in areas that were owned by the Celts, but not the Romans. We also know that most of these roads were mapped out according to Celtic theology, as described by Graham Robb in "The Discovery of Middle Earth." Which should make sense, because one of the main images from the roman era of the Celts involves chariots. Which are terrible vehicles to take on some kind of unimproved mud roadway, but would mean rapid military deployment with a road system. So the Gauls and non-Gaulish Celts already had a civilization. Just not one that was centralized like the Romans. "The Gauls in the south began adopting roman customs" you argue, producing and consuming wine. That's completely untrue. They began adopting Greek customs, due to the Greek settlement at Marseille well before the beginning of the timeline of this video, in 600BC. You had in what is now southwest France, Graecco-Gauls. They were the ones who brought the love of wine to the rest of Gaul. We know from arcehological digs across gaul that there were giant pots filled with Italian wine and olive oil. Turns out a goodly chunk of impoverished Rome's income at the time of the Republic was Gauls buying wine and olive oil in Bulk. Interestingly, Rome only really invaded Gaul after they started producing their own Wine. Finally, "The Germans were going to invade south no matter what, because of the huns." There's a good chance that the Celts would have welcomed them. We see from places where Gaulish and German cultures met a process of Gaulicization, similar to what happened to the Grecco-Gauls of southern France. The Gauls show up, are too strong to simply kill off without a big war, and they offer trade. Roads get built, everybody gets rich, and people start sharing culture and language. That's how the Celts spread so far and wide. Trade works better than swords. And to that end, they would have gotten along with the Carthaginians really, really well. "These lands might have remained primarily tribal, and rural" although even at this time they were neither. The Gauls built massive cities for the time called Oppidum. Their territory was no more tribal or rural than Roman territory. But here's the thing. You mentioned the long haired vs short haired Gauls? Vercingetorix, whose image appears in your video, was the child of Celtillus, a man who was executed by the Celtic confederation for attempting to unite it under a single ruler. That was one of the problems the Gauls had as a group. They refused to come together and become what we would think of as a single country. Carthage did, Rome did, but the Greeks, Etruscans, Celts, and Germans refused to, and killed their own leaders who would have been Celtic versions of Alexander or Julius Caesar. And THAT is the Roman contribution to western civilization. Or would have been Carthage's through trade, so Europe still had a back-up option. Small, localized, fragmented communities, often miniature ethno-statelets, cannot defend themselves from large, diverse states. The truth is that there was no such thing as "Gaul" until it was built into a province by the Romans. If their had been, that massive, wealthier nation would have put Rome back in its box. They didn't, because disunited, they couldn't. We talk about them as such today because we have a Romanized perspective, and see a coalition of disparate micronations as some kind of cohesive whole. They weren't. An accurate map of gaul would have looked like a map of the Holy Roman Empire.
I really loved this comment. It is sad that someone who claim himself authority in alternate history has zero idea on how Gaullic civilisation really looked like. I cringed every time he reffered to them as backwards people. We should not forget that history is written by winners...
Ibn, you should check out the Amazon prime series Britannia. It is a fancified work of fiction akin to a Celtic game of Thrones, but it gives a fairly accurate depiction of the politics between Celtic groups and Rome. I don't think the second season is out yet, but I may be mistaken.... Yeah, there was infighting. By appearances, one group of Celts was as likely to fight an enemy group of Celts they had a grudge against along side Rome, probably with a handful of Roman "promises" included, as they were to fight against Rome. The Story of Boudica is basically a rebellion by a queen of a willing vassal state (later on, in what would become England) who had Rome go back on their deals after her Husband, a Roman vassal king, died. That, perhaps, is the only issue I really take with the above comment.... while I've read reasonable speculation that more primitive Germanic groups were often assimilated during Celtic expansion - even suggesting the Gaels were such a group (or, to put it another way, expanding Celts assimilated the more primitive Germanics in the areas of Ireland and Scotland), though I think evidence refutes this - and that interaction between Germanics and Celts were not necessarily overtly hostile, with speculation that the Germanics even learned much from Celts (I've read even Iron metallurgy), the Celts often didn't get along with other groups of Celts... so..... their reactions may have varied.
Just so you know.... The Ancient Celts, were actually quite ‘civilized’ for their times. Although many of them were Nomadic Tribes, many other Tribes put down roots. Especially the Briton, Scot/Irish & Welsh. Their Religion,(The Druids were Teachers, Diplomats, Judges/Law Keepers and Spiritual Advisors & Priests/Priestesses) Artwork & Poetry were Amazing. They were a Progressive & Free Thinking People. Being ‘civilized’ isn’t just about living in Cities. (plus at the very least, the Celts, painted for War, with Woade...were quite a Fierce Sight..lol)
iirc Celts were hired as mercenaries by practically everyone, their art was actually desirable by people in the Mediterranean, the Greeks found them aesthetically pleasing ( as in they liked their hair and beards with the paler skin) and they kinda skipped the bronze age (or at least went through it faster). I read it in a book like 7 years ago so some of it will be fuzzy.
@@lif3andthings763 Celts had metal work that impressed the romans, and they were organized enough to fight the roman army showing incredible intelligence. Same with "sub saharan" africa, the ethiopian empire was specifically avoided by Rome even though Persia was conquered
It is worth noting that the Greeks and Romans had a very high opinion of the Druids - up until they became a problem for Roman occupation. But Caesar, Cicero and others spoke very highly of them as philosophers - comparing them to Pythagoras especially, due to allegedly similar ideas. There were also cultural similarities between Gallic and Italic peoples.
Been watching your channel a few years now; so grateful that you put so much effort into these videos. You're able to bring a bystander into proper appreciation of events they never knew happened. Much appreciated, Tyler
@@kallmannkallmann While not perfect, the game has apparently come a long way from its buggy launch. It's actually worth considering. The Imperator Augustus campaign is included and the game's political system was overhauled not too long ago. Of the expansions, Empire Divided and Rise of the Republic seem the most interesting to me.
Napoleon Bonaparte I've played it.Completely dull,the AI somehow manages yo be worse than in the base game.The same,predictable outcomes always happen.In short,it is Boring,too easy,and all around just a prime example of people claiming something is good when it really is just a polished turd.
@@mansamusa1743 Too easy? Yea i mean if you played one game as the commune of france on easiest diffculty, maybe. Tf are you talking about with csame outcome" , i have played like 40 games in kaiserreich and they barely ever have close to the same outcomes
Oh, and the Romans learned more about tactics from Hannibal than from anybody else. The Romans copied Carthaginian ships, but they also mimicked their armies. Both in composition and use.
Two things you might understate (a little/too much). 1. Commercial exchange is a strong driving force for influence (technological and cultural). 2. We know very, very (very, very... you get it) little about the Celts but I doubt they were that "barbaric" (proof in their excellent metalworking, their scary fortifications, and some hints that their women were highly respected and might even have been chieftain/in a position of power). I'm not sure innovations like aqueducts, theatre and so on would have been "resisted" for long even if "only" brought "peacefully" by Cartage. The tribes in what's now southern France, heavily influenced by Cartage traders, Greek cities (Massilia, Antipolis...) and maybe a bit by ze germans would possibly fight for local domination before the eventual (note that I say eventual, might take a century or two... or three) winner spread it out northward. Hell, when the time comes around for Vercingetorix and his shenanigans, he might even unite the Gauls and forge himself a Celtic empire. After all, tales of Alexander of Macedonia (and later of his generals) have spread and an ambitious man might want to imitate the legend. Anyways, it pretty much all stops with the Huns: either western Europe is fortified under a few carthageno-helleno-celtics kingdoms and they can more or less slow the steamroll to a stop or they can't and we would all be speaking a weird mix of Gaelic, Germanic, and mainly Hunnic as of today. Or not and ultimately, vikings do come and do unite everything with a relatively high chance of success.
Pope: Hi mom, I've got some good news and some bad news. Mother: What's the good news? Pope: I've just been elected Pope. Mother: What's the bad news? Pope: I have to move into an Italian neighborhood.
Yeah, that one is basically a "How did this happen?" job. The whole thing was unstable due to the nature of its government, and the conflicting directions of its kings (who wanted to conquer the Baltic and other strategically useful regions) and the Szlachta (who wanted to control large swathes of Russia and the Ukraine, as there were large numbers of farming peasants to exploit there), combined with the Sejm's vetos, would always have doomed the country to either civil war or complete disintegration eventually.
Probably we will see an our timeline Russia but weaker and without the protecting cold. If they could survive to the XIX century, however, it would be interesting to see a country with more democracy than the others do in the Napoleonic Wars, as it could be an ally of Napoleon instead of the enemy that Russia, Austria and Germany was. Also, a lot more of cultures would be preserved, because the multiethnic state it was (like the Ottoman Empire, that now it's almost 20 countries with a lot of diffs between them). It would fall in the XIX century but instead of conquering more than the actual succesor countries would rise.
@@teresadaly7210 exactly, where else were the celts of Britain pushed to after being forced from England? And yet people consider Scotland Celtic, despite the Scottish coming from the Picts and Scots, being less celtic than like any of us?
Because, dude, outside of those with extreme knowledge of the most eastern posing of Europe, or those who are of direct Celtic or some sort of uk decent, won’t know about whales, or really care. I do get accuracy is important, but at that point, bring up whales is just unnecessary and a waste of script space.
@@hunterross9028 But including it would broaden inclusivity, bring more knowledge of the country to foreign viewers and give Welsh viewers a feeling of more belonging on the channels content. Its not a waste of script space at all, that's like saying mentioning Scotland is a waste and he may as well have just said Engladn
A world without Rome is not necessarily better or worse just depends on how you look at it. Roman's did make kind of blue print to how most future societies modeled their infrastructure certain things we take for granted.
YU no mention wales as celtic? Welsh is the most spoken celtic language in it's homeland! P.S. It's now believed that the celtic expansion was a bit more complicated than how you put it. Genetic, and linguistic evidence points to "celts from the west" a popular theory that states that the celts originated from indo-europeans that settled britain, and spain, coincidentally spreading their culture in much the same way as you say the Carthaginians would. It is likely however that much of the celtic material culture and art originated in southern germany. P.P.S. its pronounced "gah-lick". "gay-lick" is referring to the Gaels aka the Irish, Scottish, and Manx (the gaelic language speakers) also celtic culture survived within roman borders for a long time. Gaulish as a language survived in north France till ~450 a.d. and old welsh was in britain all the way until the anglo-saxons came. I like your videos, just trying to help you out on a subject I know not many people know much about, that I've put years of research into.
"It's now believed that the celtic expansion was a bit more complicated than how you put it. Genetic, and linguistic evidence points to "celts from the west" a popular theory that states that the celts originated from indo-europeans that settled britain, and spain, coincidentally spreading their culture in much the same way as you say the Carthaginians would. It is likely however that much of the celtic material culture and art originated in southern germany. " I think I know which study you refer to and you may have a little misunderstanding here... What genetics has revealed is that most of western europeans populations are still geneticaly closely related to pre-indoeuropean populations. From what I remember, the study you mentions about britain and spain discovered that DNA from "british celts" was actually more close to that of 3000BC (not sure, but it was some thousand of years BC) iberic men than to southern germanic celts. Which mean that when indoeuropeans come from the East, they didn't erase all of pre indoeuropean peoples, but assimilated them... with enormous variation from one region to another; very roughly: the more you go north and east, the more people get IE DNA, the more you go south and west, the more people get non-IE, with some places like Sardinia where DNA is almost 100% non-IE. But yes, celtic expansion was "a bit" more complicated. Even romanization did'nt happen exactly like he said, with southern "long-haired" gauls already being in the romanization process just before Gallic Wars (tribes like the Arvernii and the Aedui were allied to Rome and have strong commercial ties with the Republic and the Mediteranian world)... European Antiquity is a very rich and complex subject.
Here is another scenario that could have happened but no one talks about: Hellenistic Buddhism was big in Asia minor and wandering monks were all over the place. What if its influence spread to Rome and, before Christianity, the Roman Emperors converted to Buddhism and hence Buddhism, not Christianity, was the dominate religion of Europe?
@YoungD3mon314 Just because they are Buddhist does NOT mean they would be peaceful. Heck, maybe the Crusades would have been the medieval world war, with western "dharmadom" marching all the way to India to destroy the Muslims and liberate the Buddhist holy places, perhaps forming an alliance with the Mongols to do so.
Great video, but there are a few inconstitencies here and there. The most major one being, in my opinion, the fact that the Germans... were celtic. "Gaul" and "Germany" were simply names given by the Romans, respectively to the Celts living beyond the Alps and to the Celts living beyond the Rhine. Of course, there were cultural differences between celtic inhabitants of modern-day Aquitaine and modern-day Germany, but it was just the conscequences of a cultural continuum going through the whole celtic world, which was a vast mosaic from western Spain to the Baltic shore. Inside this territory were places where the Celts were not the dominant culture, such as Brittany, Vasconia, etc, but the Celtic world covered nearly all western, central and eastern Europe. So, German incursions and movements would certainly not be seen as "invasions", but merely the continuation of the many skirmishes that regularly took place all throughout the celtic world between celtic tribes. More importantly : thanks to archeologist, we know there were great trade routes existing inside the celtic world, and even the Galates who travelled to Anatolia were still firmly integrated into the celtic trade network, so without the conquest of Gaul by Rome, it is plausible that this network would keep growing to the point it could compare to the Greek and Carthaginian trade networks. It is possible that such growing wealth and power would give birth to stable states, some kingdoms, federations of free cities, colonial empires, etc. Considering that the Celts were even better than the Romans at making weapons - at least until Rome conquered Iberia -, such stable celtic states could even win against Greeks, Carthaginians, or any other power. With such a situation, the most probable outcome would be a very divided but very strong celtic Europe, with an important trade network creating strong links between states, which could hold a firm grip on the whole continent at least until the 5th Century and the massive arrival of peoples from the euro-asian steppe.
This is an interesting analysis, thanks for sharing. How does a growing wealth and power of certain cities and trade networks potentially mean stable states and kingdoms? I'm not familiar with this subject, so sorry if the answer is obvious.
@@somebodyelse9130 I may lack some vocabulary here, since English is not my native language, but I'll try. Strong trade routes is a symptom of a stable political situation, especially in the ancient eras : to have a reccuring trade relationship in these times, two political entities - let's call that "states" even though it's anachronical - must at least know each other to an extent, have an overhaul understanding of one another's customs and ways of living and share a common ground built with time. The fact that not only the Celts managed to forge such strong trade routes but, moreover, connected those trade routes through a whole trade network is very significiant. Compared to them, Rome had to invade foreign lands and force them to become client states, whereas Greeks and Phenycians/Carthaginians had to establish strong colonies in order to secure strong trade routes. The troubled relationships between Athens and its allies of the Delos League, or between Rome and Egypt, illustrate the relative inefficiency of these ways, which, to be stable in the long run, need the hegemony of one party on the other, which in the end leads to the strong party absorbing the weaker ones. Which is very efficient but very costly, and Rome had to constantly expand for centuries just to equilibrate its finances. On the other hand, the Celts had established a trading system that did not need the hegemony of one party over the others, in other words : a trading system that did not need a celtic empire to be maintained or even expanded. It is as efficient as the empire system, but far less costly. The weak side being that there is no strong state that can use its military power to protect the celtic world, but the strong side being that the trading network is not limited by the power of its hegemon/empire, such as were the Roman, Carthaginian and Greek ones. And the Celts achieved this despite their constant skirmishes, bickerings and rivalries. In fact, it is fairly plausible that these constant skirmishes, bickerings and rivalries were part of the conditions that made this situation possible. Kind of a "checks and balances" system, with a constant but low degree of conflicts between states, and where these conflicts are considered to be part of a normal relationship between states, on par with trade relationships, marital relationships, alliances, etc. Wealth on the other hand is more of a consequence of having such a strong trade network. The wealth of a state has more to do with how any levies of ressources and revenues you can dispose of at any time than it has to do with how many ressources and revenues you accumulated at a given moment. Typically, when the Gallates settled in Anatolia, they were among the weakest in the region, being neighboured by strong greek city-states, coastal colonies, and even kingdoms and empires. They were numerous, but the kingdom of Pergame probably had more slaves than the entire Gallates population. But in a few years, the Gallates became the ealthiest state of Anatolia, establishing trade relationships with their neighbours and buying the services of renowed strategians. This was probably thanks to the ties with the celtic trading network, that they maintained even though they were hundreds of kilometers away from it. They could maintain such ties because, for the rest of the Celtic world, it was indeed normal to continue trading with the Gallates even though they had migrated far away from their native lands. Strong economic and political relationships had been established, and there was no reason to cut them off even though skirmishes, bickerings and rivalries were frequent. In a span of decades, the Gallates became wealthy enough and thus strong enough to rival greek city-states, coastal colonies and even kingdoms. They sometimes raided their neighbourgs - while still trading with them, confirming that in their mindset the two were not opposite actions at all -, and resisted two greek coalition wars. Then the kingdom of Pergame called Rome to help, and the Romans won. And then annexed Pergame.
Enormous mistake at the very beginning of the video: you forgot Massalia. Without Rome, Massaliots would have extended their area of influence and we can imagine that it would have helped the Greek civilisation to dominate the entire Mediterranean Sea.
That means there would be no little Caesars pizza
Pizza You just made me hungry.
@@harverc229 same
Or caesars sallad
😱
Fuck Little Caesars, Pizza Hut master race.
*Rome:* Does not exist
*Carthage:* Its Free Real Estate
LOL
I mean....
You made my day! Lmfao!!
You mean
Rome: does not exist
Everyone: ITS FREE REAL ESTATE
@Harvey Daleno that ones too bias
FREE REAL ESTATE
Rome = Less Evil Disney.
I can get behind this.
* *OY VEY* *
Can to
Slavery, genocide and mass mutilation is so much worse than what Rome did.
This joke, which probably isn't even a joke, made my day.
Ayy lmao
“Today when we think of Celts we think of Ireland, Scotland and Cornwall”
Wales: *cries in dragon*
Brittany : cries in stoat
Portugal: cries in Spanish
Schtink *One of these is not like the other*
Anatolia's long extinct Celtic tribes: *cries in goat*
@@tomatergobbl3r812 In Spanish??
This is like a classic alternative history hub video.
Edit: SENPAI NOTICED ME
Classique
Chef Proopy I agree!!! :)
Indeed, and one of the classic alternate history questions as a whole.
so, historically inaccurate and poorly made?
As well as a return to a longer video format! I know it takes more work, but the depth and detail of it speaks for itself.
How about an alternate history where not only did Australia loose the great emu war but the emus retaliated by Marching into the city of perth uprooting the government and start a facist rule over western Australia slowly expanding twords eastern Australia and south aisa hoping to someday rule all of earth and become the dominant species.
Lol
That would be great
Yes I am a emu that would be great for our species and stupid humans would be dead
I only know about that from Sam O Nella.
Y E S
Well, I know one thing and it is if Rome didn't exist we wouldn't have jokes about Caeser's death. And a world without Caeser jokes is more terrifying than getting stabbed in the back.
😂😂😂
I see what you did there...
*DEATH TO THE LEIGON!*
"23 stab wounds!!" 😂
Le Spartan Alsacien / / The Alsatian Spartan
He didn’t see what they did there though. They were behind him.
I feel you may have underestimated Carthage. Please; let me explain;
In archaeological excavations of old Carthage, it was determined that a major factor in The Punic ability to produce ships so quickly was the design of it's harbor. Modern thinkers believed that Carthage's harbor positioned ships in several stages of construction along what we today would call an assembly line. It has been theorized that a great deal of production in the cities of the Phoenicians was managed in similar processes, which would help explain their economic resurgence after the first Punic war when Rome's sanctions should have financially broken them (Iberian mines and all). Furthermore, it has been noted in Roman records that the Punic ships were easy to reverse engineer as they had been made by the use of interchangeable parts and labeled for assembly. These 2 factors: assembly lines and interchangeable parts (allowing for unskilled labor to be used en mass for production of goods) would not be seen again until almost 2,000 years later in the industrial revolution. Politically, expansion would probably be very subtle, but in your alternate history, you surmised that progress would be slow. It is my contention that if these factors necessary for mass production were introduced to the world 2,000 years before they were, progress might have actually been quite rapid, and with the diplomacy-first attitude of the Phoenician traders, the potential for cooperative technological innovation and industrial expansion coming earlier in history than the 19th century are actually much better.
Thank you for your time.
That's a good point, specially since Carthage was the closest thing to a capitalist entity that existed at that time... it is rumored that greeks had steam engines, but were merely a curiosity to mystify people. The pieces are there, an accident away from meeting. Furthermore, I understand that romans were not particularly interested in intensifying productivity, simply because it was just easier to get more slaves. Carthaginians would have bought industrialization immediately, and make profits selling mass produced stuff to everyone.
It's important to keep in mind that this idea of "mass production" being evoked is merely a rhetorical device to help us get a familiar perspective of how they did things.
What the carthaginians had was a very "proto" form of the idea being discussed.
Remember, the Carthaginians were primarily traders, and colonizers (I hate the politically charged use of that term these days.) But they were not particularly warlike. Rome defeated them yes, and in this scenario Rome isn't around, but Carthage surviving doesn't mean some other empire couldn't do the same.
I love Carthage to death, I fancy over it 6 ways to Sunday. I'm so biased to Carthage it's not even a contest lol.
*but* if I'm going to be honest in my opinion here, I would be remiss to point out that all the mass production of ships in the world won't change anything if they don't have the sailors, marines and warriors to crew them and back up a navy that large. They had the largest navy at the time, and they still lost to Roman Ingenuity. If they doubled the size of their fleet, would they have had the warriors needed to man them? Given their societal focus, I'm guessing not. Then there is the method by which they fought, the Phalanx. Much of the world used the Phalanx at that time. Greeks, some Gauls, Carthaginians, even Rome and the Etruscans/Samnites. If anyone else ever devised a different form of fighting akin to the Manipular system and Triplex Aces, then Carthage would be in trouble again.
I struggle to envision a world where they persist as long or even half as long as Rome did unfortunately. Their production ability revelation you've brought forth isn't something I knew before, but it also didn't save them from Roman conquest 😕
Nice
@@alexanderrahl7034 their army was also majorly composed of hired mercenaries so the loyalty of the ground troops would come into question as soon as the pay got delayed- it was a big problem for rome and they had professional armies who were more disciplined and loyal to the state initially. and i don;t believe carthage was as centrally organized being more concerned with setting up trading posts almost semi-autonomous as long as they paid their dues to carthage so i don;t think the unity and sense of nation would be as strong as rome's.
as an interesting minor twist though. if there's no rome or first punic war then Archimedes wouldn't have died after syracuse fell so who knows what additional technological creations he could have come up with which could have improved the technological base of a still stable carthagian empire which could have further altered their chances of long term success. though the threat of attack from the southern tribes in africa would be similar to the gaulish threat to rome and limit any thoughts of further expansion south. just that they had the defense of the sahara instead of the alps but also more area to defend.
i don;t think they would have had as large or long term effect as rome like you say either in effect on europe or overall staying power. i do think they would have been rivals to egypt in north africa for a long time until they lost their naval advantage to keep europe at bay. and egypt would block expansion to the east. but anything in europe would be swept away by the european tribes after a couple centuries at most around when they started butting heads with rome probably around gauis marius through caesar's time.
they might have expanded along the west coast of africa though setting up trading posts along the way more than likely (being the only real direction a sea power could take under the circumstances) with a very remote possibility if so of accidently finding the americas like one of the other videos here mentioned happening (i think it was the "what if the muslims kept spain" one) though their vessels at the time probably weren't up to the task. probably needed a few hundred more years for any hope of that happening
@@jper4911 the further into the future you ever look for these "what if" scenarios, the more you need to anticipate.
Carthage even surviving an extra 100 years comes with a ton of extra possibilities both good and bad.
It's likely they would have expanded I to Iberia, since they already were at the time.
And honestly, Egypt was a shell of its former self by then. Carthage may not conquer it, but they would likely eclipse it economically and culturally.
Without Rome however, you need to consider Epirus and the Greek colonies of Italy and how they would have gone. The Etruscans and Senones as well. Carthage definitely wouldn't discover America, that's almost entirely certain. But they could very well contact and colonize along the west coast of Africa and Europe, and possibly even as far as India assuming their empire was stable and wealthy enough to support such long-term and expensive endeavors.
Even if they did discover America, and that's a big big IF, nothing would have come of it. It may have been a footnote in history even. The journey would likely be a year long affair to get there and back, maybe more. And for what? A land with no immediate discernable resources that make the trip worth it, and a large population of hostile barbarians. "No Thanks, we have plenty of those here."
A colony needs time and investment. Tons of resources and settlers, constant attention, and by the time it's self sufficient, if it's not bringing back something to make the trip worthwhile, it's abandoned as a failure. Which almost any ancient power surely would have done. The America's they would likely have found, just wouldn't have had anything they wanted, and plenty they didn't.
Time to get back to longer videos. Buckle up kiddos.
What if Osman never existed
What if alaska and north east asia was still connected
What if the USA colonized Canada
B U C K L E D
Can you do a video on what if Teddy Roosevelt won the 1912 election? That would hella cool.
You know what they say "When in Rome, play Coolmathgames"
Sam Patterson who the fuck do you know who says that
@@salutic.7544 ISP
@@salutic.7544 respect our gods of coolmathgames.com
Saloutic 7 it's a meme on another RUclips channel
I agree
I’m getting your book on Wednesday through amazon. I can’t wait to read it
Same. It's quite fitting since it's Halloween
Same
I do not get it until Saturday
Check your privilege
I'll be getting it for the holidays.
Same!
Also in the Fallout series in this timeline the New California Republic would fight a different ancient civilization's reincarnation in Fallout: New Vegas. I would think it would be ancient Egypt or Greece (Alexander)
@Noon True to Alexander
ave, true to Tutankhamun
Fallout probably wouldnt even be a thing
Geia sou, true to Alex
Alexander's legion
"They had a great way of copying others after they already conquered them... like Disney! But less evil."
And more successfully
Yeh - the Last Jedi was really great, weren't it.
You forget that the presence of the Greeks in western Mediterranean was very strong . If someone would interact with Gaul it would be the Greeks . They controlled almost half of the southern coast of what is France today . Colonies like Massilia(Marseilles), Antipolis(Antibes), Mounichos(Monaco) and Nicaea(Nice) were all Greek . Also there were many trade outposts of the Greeks in the Iberian . Some of them were located in what is today Catalunya such as Emporeion(Empuries) and Hemeroskopeion.
Rome kicked the Greeks ass
He also forgot Pyrrhus of Epirus and his adventures in Southern Italy. If there were no Romans in the way, his quest to remake Alexander's Empire in the West would've been far more successful. It surely would have been a Hellenic Europe, not a Carthaginian/Celtic one.
@@PatriotGabe I highly doubt that, Carthage is not an easy opponent, Rome couldn't defeat Carthage on its own and needed the Numidian tribes to coordinate an Attack on Western Tunisia whilst Hannibal was crossing the Alps north of Italy, if Rome never existed Carthage would've had the trust of the Numidian Berbers and their Military strength would've been quadrupled, eastern Med. would've remained mostly Greek but Carthage would've explored many other regions and maybe even discovered the Americas since they were excellent at exploring and trading.
@@mouath_14 I doubt Carthage would've bothered going north much beyond Iberia and Hannibal only went into Italy because of Rome, Carhage would've been a power in the Southwest Mediterranean and maybe even the Atlantic but the Northwest would've been contested with the Greeks
@@PatriotGabe And you're forgetting that Celts sacked the Oracle of Delphi itself, and that northern Europe has terrain basically custom designed to ruin phalanx warfare. A Celtic Europe would be fairly plausible in the absence of Rome, albeit the Greek CULTURAL influence could still lead to the rise of nation states (and this is without going into the significant amount of what we associate with medieval Europe that came from Germanic culture rather than Roman which would have still been present at the "medieval" point in this alternative timeline)
Just like Babylon, crazy to think cities/civilisation can just be snuffed out and forgotten; I wonder how many ‘mythic’ things actually existed, or civilisations who have been completely forgotten.
probably hundred thousands
It´s like the majority of Africas history is allmost totaly lost. But we know they had empires with great wealth we don´t know mutch else.
@@kallmannkallmann , yeah, most of them never got the hang of writing, right? I wonder how they managed to build big empires, complex cities, and administrate all that without writing. Must have either had remarkable memory or some super efficient system.
Well, we do know of African empires, most of which where trade, or wealth based, like Carthage, I dare say there would be some, if not many, we do not currently know of simply due to it being lost to history, much like the likes of Troy, or Atlantis.
@@theconeezeanemperor1619 A libertarian writer I read said that nations of peace and freedom were lost to history simply because they weren't conquering other nations and weren't driven to create permanent monuments dedicated to the state.
Bit of a nit pick, but Britain remained culturally Celtic, just Romanized. It was the later Anglo-Saxon invasion that pushed the Celts back to Scotland, Ireland and Cornwall. And Wales.
Correction; its more accurate to say that western and northern Britons were just less Romanized and later Anglocized than the rest of mainland Britain, rather then to say the celts were "pushed back". DNA studies in the UK have shown that people live surprisingly close to where their tribal ancestors would have.
@@subjectd6985 unless youre a colonial, lol.
@@ethank.6602 I'm sorry I don't follow?
@@subjectd6985 he means unless you were a literal Roman living in Britain
As always, Wales is a last addition.
What if the Australians won the great emu war?
🤔🤔
U mean didn't win
The world would collapse in on itself and Amy Schumer would be funny.
The Australians would have conquered the world during WWII, turning on the Allies and invading everyone with the most powerful military on the planet.
@@kyleperlman they would be the first nation to develop a nuclear arsenal and hang it over the world
You're about to trigger a bunch of aussies, turn off notifications
*Welcome back to life’s biggest questions*
*IM YOUA HOUST **___________*
Lets over-exagerate everything I say
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What's up smart people, Joe here
What if alaska and north east asia was still connected
Thats actually a good question.
Please make a video
Would Asians besides the Native Siberians find their way to the Americas easier? Would they colonize or not? Would Russia colonize Alaska harder, leaving a more pronounced Russian remnant behind? Would they even sell the area in the first place? If they did sell it, would they sell more than they did, or less? Would there be a network of military bases and Nuclear Silos there for the Cold War? I don’t know, but I want a video.
That video would be un-Bering-able.
*were
I'm surprised nothing was said about roads. Not having Rome's roads sprawled across Europe would have massively mitigated immigration/emigration, land-based trade, and cultural mixing that resulted from having an easy travel network across much of the continent.
the romans didn't invent roads... not even straight ones. What the romans did was enslave or displace enough people that today we appreciate it to be the cultural mixing that you speak of. Tribes of celts weren't particularly interested in migrating and emigrating, although evidence suggests that they were very closely linked from a cultural perspective - indeed much more so than this video seems to appreciate. Celtic europe seems, by archaeology, to have resembled the city-state model of greece much more than the romans cared to write about (they favoured the savage barbarian view of things). I mean, there is evidence that wool and pottery made on the british isles was findings its way down the silk road long before rome even started to wonder if britain was more than a myth.... you don't see that unless there are trading networks and roads, cultural mixing and all those good things going on
@@Wolf-Rayet_Arthur he didn't say that romans invented roads
@@User-jm7up he mentioned roads as being significantly attached to the Roman's. They weren't, and that was the point of my reply.
Shooting Fish Rome didn’t invent much but what they did was learn from their neighbours and spreading it to all of Europe
@@pergys6991 yes there is a lot of truth in that comment, but I'm tempted to point out a reminder that it was likely not the case that they did this deliberately. I mean, at the very least they didnt leave Latium with the express intention to go and find the best stuff and learn from it they set out to conquer and everything else that happened was out of necessity and in most cases having to make the best of the cards that were dealt
What if the Emus joined the Axis powers?
Man in the High Castle is non-fiction.
Crikey!
@LagiNaLangAko23 we'd be safe in NZ. Emus can't cross the Tasman. HAH!
Poor Aussies. You can envision the great Golden Emu statues, with Australians toiling the soil in chains, being barked at by commander Emus in SS uniforms..
It's actually quite beautiful from where I'm sitting :DD
@@CreeperManCreeps I need somebody to make a movie about this!!
@Pan Mesio
salty aussie detected
I can't help but wonder at the idea of Carthage teaching the Celt tribes the value of writing. Dear god, the amount of folklore alone from the oral traditions would fill libraries. As someone of Irish descent, I have to say I wouldn't mind seeing that world. Wouldn't mind it at all.
Druids praticed oral tradition to extremes so it could have some impact but not much.
@@EndranExit If they were like the Persians they probably wouldn't have bothered to write down any of their oral literature and it would have remained frustratingly lost in the present.
What's more interesting is how the world religions will turn out. It was the Romans who propagated Christianity as their political tool. WIthout romans, Europe might be full Islam or might have a whole new religion.
@@dharmdevil i think without the romans, paganism would have stayed a prominent feature in europe, by that i mean all regional religions possibly even some hunnic religion because with rome gone i do not think the celts and germanics were strong/united enough to hold of the huns. with a strong greece and carthage and a strong egypt instead of a weakend roman empire wich was overstretched i do not believe islam would have even spread over north africa let alone into europe
So you could say they brought their downfall on themselves, they just wouldn't shut up.
Something to keep in mind is that after Rome took Carthage out, they turned the province of Africa into their breadbasket. That whole area was clear-cut for massive farmland to feed Rome, making Africa the number one source of food in the Roman Empire, but also causing the Sahara Desert to double in size (or moreso) because of the incredible amounts of erosion caused now that there were no tree roots to hold the dirt in place.
Rome's centralized measures meant massive growth of the city itself. Carthage's more decentralized nature would mean a smaller capital city and consequently less of a need to bring in large gobs of food to feed it. There's a good chance that the Sahara Desert would be much smaller today than it is in reality, especially if the Carthaginians began undertaking public works to build rivers and plant trees/orchards/etc. in an effort to make room for (and yes, feed) the expanding Carthaginian Empire's population. They would, after all, have a much greater incentive to take care of the place because they actually live there.
that and trade from the Celt they had a big trade network too that he forgot about the gladus sword was stolen from the Celts in Spain
@James Holborow, I do not mean Egypt. Egypt was its own province. Africa was Carthage/Tunisia and eastward to the border with Egypt. It wasn't always the name of the whole continent.
If any city was completely annihilated, then it was Carthage for sure. Legends say that the Romans even plowed the earth after they completely removed the city to make sure not a single bit of it remained.
Atlantis entire structure beneath broke away as the enteral city plunged into the cold depths of the ocean. Never again was the city seen again.
@@michaelweston409 Atlantis is only ever mentioned by one ancient writer (Plato) as a fictional island. This comes from a time of early/non-existent written words that have been pieced together and possibly mistranslated. There are obvious underwater ruins, but at least they are still around.
Jesse McCree proves my point
To jump on this I learned in ancient history that they actually salted the cities they conquered to make sure nothing would grow and the land was useless. So they must've done something
@@michaelweston409 Except it never existed. So yeah, there is no trace of it, cause it never was.
I have a good question. What if WW1 stoped at the Christmas Truce? I'm gonna let everyone else go with this Idea.
COMMUNISM FOR EVERYONE!! No, but it was just an idea that I had. For the common man to bring up his moral sence, and bring the world to peace by disobeying the orders of his generals and officers.
Bullshit! We should have to take advantage of the goodness of the British and attack with full force!
It would happened anyways. The tension was so big to stop there. Even if there was a truce for 3 or 4 years that wouldn't last. It's like the WW2: It didn't started bc of Hitler. It started bc of the german hate to almost everyone.
Such absolute bullshit, Kianture. I bet you think Hitler started WW1 as well.
Germany didn't even start the conflict. And WW2 was a reaction of the brutal treatment of the Allies against Germany.
Wasn't your name changed to Morgoth?
Sees title: Is that even possible?
End of vid: *MULTIVERSE INTENSIFIES*
This is probably one of my most favorite What If scenarios ever! Truly, the world would never be the same as it is in our timeline if Rome never existed, and I am really eager to see what more would be changed! I can't wait to see the next video! :)
Yeah cuz everything we know about western civilization is completely altered. Just the thought of Christianity and the current romance languages being gone is crazy to think of
How did Tunisia come into this?? I'm confused about that
@@grubbybum3614 Carthage was in modern day Tunisia
we wouldn't be talking right now, if they didnt exist
“It’s is not death a man is to fear but he should fear never existing at all”-Aurelian
btw, you should do a "What if Alternate History Hub never existed?" video.
Darkest timeline
Yeah video would be 0:00 minutes
But can you answer or ask the question if it doesnt exist?
technically that would be a paradoxical scenario but whatever
Maybe as the next April fool's episode.
So basically no Rome means roaming irish everywhere. Perfection
Roaming Celt and it feels so beautiful
Oh goodie. Stick to the south
Taking out Ancient Rome is basically nuking the entire timeline. Great video as always Cody! Hope your book release has been successful!
but if it didn't exist then it would be the norm....
Uh... Yeah, good observation...
Cultish we think Irish Scottish and Cornish.
No mention of Wales? That’s an entire Celtic nation left out, one with the oldest Celtic language left alive today
Annoyed me too
🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴🇬🇧
Yep that actually hurt hearing us get left out!
So happy this has been raised!!!
Poor old Wales! He didn't list them, and even missed them off the map at 11:23! Oddly enough he was very good at including the Cornish and Bretons, who aren't even independent countries today!
Can you do what if the Ottoman empire didn't exist?
*armenia wants to know your location*
Parker Zaglin Eastern Europe would be more prosperous like the West.
@@LightForxes Hahahahah lol, Eastern Europe isn't influenced by Turkish people for more than 100 years they're still poor and behind in technology compared to Turkey or any proper country, i guess Turkish people are better off without them.
Vinod Renz The Balkans were divided between the Byzantines, Serbia, and Bulgaria. If we assume Anatolia never unites, that gives breathing room for a European power (presumably either the Greeks or Serbians) to take control of the Balkans and Anatolia.
If any of the Slavic powers becomes dominant and conquers Constantinople, you can bet that they’re going to pretend to be the next Roman Empire. Though, unlike the Turks claiming to be the successors of Rome, it might actually be taken seriously by Christians. Ie. Byzantium effectively wins and reforms its empire no matter who wins the power struggle one way or another.
*if you want to make the world a better place, take a look at the people trying to sack constantinople, and then make a change*
Damn, I love this channel. If I had a cabbage right now, I would give to this guy.
MY CABBAGES, DAMN YOU AVATAR!
WHAT ABOUT THE MIGHTY LETTUCE
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
What if he is allergic to them?
You can't be allergic to superior species
What if Cody’s descent into insanity never happened?
It’s insanity itself to try and predict that
I made the 100st like :D
WALES. YOU FORGOT WALES CONSISTENTLY!
Chill out you'd still get your free prescriptions
We're the Welsh actually 'Celts'? In fact no one called any of the Britons 'Celts', not the Greeks, not the Romans, not even the Britons themselves.
@@alexiosi2646 I see you are aware of the most recent research. Was anybody actually Celtic? It could well be that being 'Celtic' was more a cultural thing than anything to do with genetics, as there is no evidence of an actual huge influx of people from the continent to the island of Britain before the Romans came. It seems the Welsh are actually descended from the first Mesolithic settlers to Britain after the end of the last ice age c 10,000 years ago. However, if it was just a cultural thing, then yes, the Ancient Britons were very definitely Celtic. The uploader on the other hand is way out of date with his thinking.
No Roman Empire would mean no 100 on that Roman Empire test I took in ancient history all those years ago.
Forget the test, it is Ancient history.
@@Ag3nt0fCha0s I see what you did there =P
weird flex but ok
What if AlternateHistoryHub didn't exist?
RUclips would be that tiny bit less boring.
The world would be in darkness.
SonOfAKing I don’t like to envision hell
SelectCircle How dare you!
Then this comment wouldn't exist.
I think that we wouldn't have pizza, and that would be the biggest consequence
We already wouldn't have pizza without the Americas, as that's where tomato comes from. So without Rome with flatbread and toppings, there wouldn't even be a precursor to pizza. I find that much more terrifying.
Oh and icees
@@tec-jones5445 Ever heard of white pizza? The bread is by far the most important part of pizza. Tomato is practically an afterthought.
@Te C-Jones Tomato was used by the Aztecs...no need for Europe. But yea without italy there woud prob be a diffrent type of pizza. Pizza is a rly simple idea, have bread and put stuff on it.... Yes that alternative pizza woud be nowhere close to ours but that it woud never exist in that relatity is not 100%
I saw u on Tumblr awards.
I have no idea how he mentions Cornwall but not wales
Why is it when there's no nation state, people like to say it's horrible
It's not
Money is an invention that says this guy is poor and this guy is Rich, even though many people in stateless territory use commodity money
why did the brits name it CORNwall to begin with, corn is from the new world, how did they know about it before columbus
@@hopeforescape884 it's not named after Corn the crop my dude. Cornwall is basically the anglicised version "Kernow", which is the Cornish name.
or Britanny
What if Russian Empire won the Russo Japanese War please.
Good one!
What if fascism and communism never split, and there was a united socialist empire that stretched from spain to Vietnam.
No more weaboos
@@1lobster They were never together. In fact, the philosophies are pretty much opposites.
#1 lobster lemme guess ya watch prager u?
One of the main reasons why the Romans clashed and hated the Gauls was due to the first sack of Rome and the battle of Allia by the Celtic King Brennus.
one of my favourite quotes from my school years is from a legend born in that struggle:
Non auro sed ferro recuperanda est Patria.
Marco Furio Camillo
(not with gold, but with iron, will the fatherland be regained)
Vae Victis!
t. Kain
Very simple: Europe would look and act exactly like Indochina. Mountainous, divided, and, in the eyes of outsiders, barbaric.
@newstateofmind but that means who would go to americans
Unknown Human Unknown Human NO ONE AND IT WOULD BE GREAT.
They'll all get stomped by the Selucids eventually...
Ejem: Greeks, Phoenicians, Cartagineses, Iberians, Celts... They are all prior to the Romans, and they weren't exactly barbaric, though they mostly formed city-states.
*northern europe
I was playing Civ V, and I met Rome just after Cody started talking.
Do a "What if USA was isolationist and never got involved in both World Wars, Korea, Vietnam, Latin America, and the Middle East?".
@JoJo is not an anime You do know that the Russians had a great interest in the Middle East too don't you... While I am not sticking up for the USA, only pointing out, that due to their oil reserves, somebody was going to control the Middle East, one way or another...
This is too complicated. If the USA stayed out of WW1, Germany may have won, or at least not lost. This would have changed the entire dynamic which lead to WW2. Korea and Vietnam were about fighting off Communism, which was a product of WW1 and WW2.
Pan Mesio edgy
@@amogususus12 You say the world would be a better place, but no, no! You are terribly mistaken, this statement so erroneous that its mere utterance has slightly diminished the very soul of humanity. You say the world would be a better place, but where, I ask you, would we get our canned cheese?!
Like George Washington wanted.
‘Ireland, Scotland and Cornwall’,
Do Americans really think about Cornwall as Celtic before they think about Wales. Cornwall, whose language was so close to extinction, whose population is a sixth of Wales’, and has no autonomous government and has no special status as a nation.
Yeah but, pasties.
Literally thinking the same thing
@@lukewoodsdelacy2777 Pasties were actually invented in South Wales, then because they're mining food they got very popular in Cornwall. We call them Ogies.
Wales isn’t Celtic. It was Brittanic tribes that fled there, not celts. That’s why Welsh sounds so different to that of Scottish and Irish.
@@Bus_Driver_Jay What are you on mate? Brythonic is just a different type of Celtic culture to Gaelic. Both are Celtic. Wales is arguably far more 'Celtic' than Scotland; it having formed from Germanic and Norse influence on top of the native culture.
What if Britain never existed?
We will find out after the Brexit
Britannia rules the waves ???? :(
Then America wouldn't exsist, which would suck, because that's litterally the only reason Britain isn't a completely worthless
(I'm not being serious, Britain has alot of good shit)
You talking about the island, or England on the island?
Michael Wade I’m guessing she means the whole of the British Isles
I am fascinated by this concept. Does anyone have any reading suggestion about this topic? The people that were there before the romans, or even the very perspective of a Europe without Rome?
I don't know if you still remember that comment lmao, but I'm making a story where the world takes place exactly in a reality where the Roman Empire doesn't exist, not only that, but like the Indo-Europeans themselves. So it would be a before people who lived before the people before rome haha
What if France won the Napoleonic Wars
We won the first Napoleonic war... Just not the second.
Nice one
Then I would be eating baguettes right now
J'aime du baguette
Baguette everywhere
The western coastal tribes of Europe were an epicenter of maritime trade, wealth, and culture in the Celtic world.
If history had taken this alternate course, it's probable that of all the Celts, *these tribes* specifically would've been the most actively engaged in learning from their Carthaginian trading partners and would've led they way in adopting sophisticated civilization. Then eastern France and southern Britain could've come under the rule of a developing Celtic empire.
And the Greeks. Remember that Rome smashed and took over the Hellenistic world. If not for Rome then the Hellenistic Kingdoms would likely have survived for much longer and Greek culture would have continued to be predominant.
And as you mention the Celts may have taken the place of Germanic people's in our own timeline. Celtic invasions into Iberia, Italy, the Balkans, Greece and Anatolia took place historically. It's entirely possible that even great expansion would occur without Roman conquest. But the Germans would also have likely expanded into Celtic lands regardless.
But certainly Britain would not have been conquered by Germanic peoples without Rome conquering it first.
One slight correction, Wales is a celtic nation within western Europe as well, in fact its the only one to have kept its native celtic language in any meaningful way.
It is mind boggling. One day seems like an eternity when there's trouble but then again, eternity flies by like an hour
You forgot there would be no Legion in the Fallout series XD
No enclave either as the Nazis are partially Roman inspired and guess who the enclave are based on.
*chuckles in NCR*
@Shark Raven another thing to add to the "What have the Romans ever done for us?!" list lol
Dude, you know a lot about the Greeks and Romans, but almost nothing about the Gauls, and as they're an important part of this story, I thought I'd comment in detail.
First off, it's not your fault you don't know about the Gauls, it's mostly the fault of our language barrier. The last 30 years has seen some significant archaeological finds in France and Germany, finds that put the lie to most Roman accounts of Gaul. The only place that's really breaking through right now is in pop history like Terry Jones Barbarians, or in more questionable works like Graham Robb's The Discovery of Middle Earth which does need to be taken with some salt.
But it turns out, if you are a Roman writing about Gaul, the vast majority of what you're saying is either made up, based on misconception, or an outright lie. The Romans are simply not accurate historians as it relates to the Gauls. Because they didn't care about them or their culture or their history. The primary sources from the era simply cannot be trusted.
The Native Americans comparison here is apt. American historians generally don't write about native Americans. History begins at Jamestown, and everything before then is just lost to the mists of time. Except it isn't, there is history there, and science as well (Nixtamalization as a quick example.)
Due to trade with the Greeks and with Carthage, the Gauls were actually scientifically more advanced than the Romans in a number of areas. Just not warfare. We know this from recent archaeology.
For example, you have the Coligny Calendar, which more than a lunisolar calendar was a primitive calculator, which was accurately helping them plan harvests while the Romans were celebrating the beginning of spring in the middle of August.
Other archaeological finds like the Vix grave show just how fantastically wealthy the Gauls were. The person who owned that property may have been the most fantastically wealthy individual of her day. Yes her. The Lady of Vix was some sort of trading queen with tastes about as subtle as Donald Trump, if the Vix Krater, the largest known metal vessel from classical antiquity is any indication. It was made by craftsmen in Greece or Etruria. The reason that she didn't have local, arguably more advanced Gaulish metalsmiths make it (these are folks who wore clothing spun through with gold, as their smiths could manufacture gold thread) is, we assume, about having "fuck you" money. The point wasn't just to have the biggest, 1100 liter wine vessel for parties on the planet, the point was to flaunt the wealth it took to hire mercenaries to get it from Etruria or Greece through hostile territory overrun by raiding Gauls or Mediterranean pirates to southern France. The point seems to be a statement of "When I ship it, it will fucking get where its going even if we have to pave the trackways red with the blood of thieves." (Edit: this sentence was truncated for some reason. YT isn't really set up for long comments.)
The reason it took so much longer for us to find these archaeological sites is because of the Gaulish tendency to prefer wood. So a lot of the archaeological finds have been massive wooden structures with intact basements and a layer of char on top.
Because wood doesn't do so well when Romans show up to burn everything.
Caesar's conquest of Gaul had more to do with the fact that the Gauls were fantastically wealthy traders themselves, and Rome was broke.
And we know all this from archaeology done in the last three or so decades, most of it in French, so it hasn't really broken through into the Anglophone world. But we know now that almost all European roads attributed to the Romans simply paved over in stone, when they'd originally been wooden trackways. Identically constructed trackways have been found in both Ireland and Germany, in areas that were owned by the Celts, but not the Romans.
We also know that most of these roads were mapped out according to Celtic theology, as described by Graham Robb in "The Discovery of Middle Earth."
Which should make sense, because one of the main images from the roman era of the Celts involves chariots. Which are terrible vehicles to take on some kind of unimproved mud roadway, but would mean rapid military deployment with a road system.
So the Gauls and non-Gaulish Celts already had a civilization. Just not one that was centralized like the Romans.
"The Gauls in the south began adopting roman customs" you argue, producing and consuming wine. That's completely untrue. They began adopting Greek customs, due to the Greek settlement at Marseille well before the beginning of the timeline of this video, in 600BC. You had in what is now southwest France, Graecco-Gauls. They were the ones who brought the love of wine to the rest of Gaul. We know from arcehological digs across gaul that there were giant pots filled with Italian wine and olive oil. Turns out a goodly chunk of impoverished Rome's income at the time of the Republic was Gauls buying wine and olive oil in Bulk. Interestingly, Rome only really invaded Gaul after they started producing their own Wine.
Finally, "The Germans were going to invade south no matter what, because of the huns."
There's a good chance that the Celts would have welcomed them. We see from places where Gaulish and German cultures met a process of Gaulicization, similar to what happened to the Grecco-Gauls of southern France. The Gauls show up, are too strong to simply kill off without a big war, and they offer trade. Roads get built, everybody gets rich, and people start sharing culture and language.
That's how the Celts spread so far and wide. Trade works better than swords.
And to that end, they would have gotten along with the Carthaginians really, really well.
"These lands might have remained primarily tribal, and rural" although even at this time they were neither. The Gauls built massive cities for the time called Oppidum. Their territory was no more tribal or rural than Roman territory.
But here's the thing. You mentioned the long haired vs short haired Gauls?
Vercingetorix, whose image appears in your video, was the child of Celtillus, a man who was executed by the Celtic confederation for attempting to unite it under a single ruler.
That was one of the problems the Gauls had as a group. They refused to come together and become what we would think of as a single country. Carthage did, Rome did, but the Greeks, Etruscans, Celts, and Germans refused to, and killed their own leaders who would have been Celtic versions of Alexander or Julius Caesar.
And THAT is the Roman contribution to western civilization. Or would have been Carthage's through trade, so Europe still had a back-up option. Small, localized, fragmented communities, often miniature ethno-statelets, cannot defend themselves from large, diverse states.
The truth is that there was no such thing as "Gaul" until it was built into a province by the Romans. If their had been, that massive, wealthier nation would have put Rome back in its box. They didn't, because disunited, they couldn't.
We talk about them as such today because we have a Romanized perspective, and see a coalition of disparate micronations as some kind of cohesive whole. They weren't.
An accurate map of gaul would have looked like a map of the Holy Roman Empire.
Not really. They were highly civilized, but not centralized.
Mein Gött! What is it? a comment or an Encyclopedia?
I really loved this comment. It is sad that someone who claim himself authority in alternate history has zero idea on how Gaullic civilisation really looked like. I cringed every time he reffered to them as backwards people. We should not forget that history is written by winners...
This was the best comment so far in the comment section. A shame it got so ignored. Good job exposing us about the Gauls though!
Ibn, you should check out the Amazon prime series Britannia. It is a fancified work of fiction akin to a Celtic game of Thrones, but it gives a fairly accurate depiction of the politics between Celtic groups and Rome. I don't think the second season is out yet, but I may be mistaken....
Yeah, there was infighting. By appearances, one group of Celts was as likely to fight an enemy group of Celts they had a grudge against along side Rome, probably with a handful of Roman "promises" included, as they were to fight against Rome. The Story of Boudica is basically a rebellion by a queen of a willing vassal state (later on, in what would become England) who had Rome go back on their deals after her Husband, a Roman vassal king, died.
That, perhaps, is the only issue I really take with the above comment.... while I've read reasonable speculation that more primitive Germanic groups were often assimilated during Celtic expansion - even suggesting the Gaels were such a group (or, to put it another way, expanding Celts assimilated the more primitive Germanics in the areas of Ireland and Scotland), though I think evidence refutes this - and that interaction between Germanics and Celts were not necessarily overtly hostile, with speculation that the Germanics even learned much from Celts (I've read even Iron metallurgy), the Celts often didn't get along with other groups of Celts... so..... their reactions may have varied.
Back in my day the title used to be called "what if Rome never existed"
Just so you know....
The Ancient Celts, were actually quite ‘civilized’ for their times. Although many of them were Nomadic Tribes, many other Tribes put down roots. Especially the Briton, Scot/Irish & Welsh. Their Religion,(The Druids were Teachers, Diplomats, Judges/Law Keepers and Spiritual Advisors & Priests/Priestesses) Artwork & Poetry were Amazing. They were a Progressive & Free Thinking People.
Being ‘civilized’ isn’t just about living in Cities.
(plus at the very least, the Celts, painted for War, with Woade...were quite a Fierce Sight..lol)
iirc Celts were hired as mercenaries by practically everyone, their art was actually desirable by people in the Mediterranean, the Greeks found them aesthetically pleasing ( as in they liked their hair and beards with the paler skin) and they kinda skipped the bronze age (or at least went through it faster). I read it in a book like 7 years ago so some of it will be fuzzy.
Yea the Celts were pretty civilized, his comparisons in the video don't make sense either, both north america and sub saharan africa had antiquity.
incubuz no they were not.
@@lif3andthings763 Celts had metal work that impressed the romans, and they were organized enough to fight the roman army showing incredible intelligence. Same with "sub saharan" africa, the ethiopian empire was specifically avoided by Rome even though Persia was conquered
It is worth noting that the Greeks and Romans had a very high opinion of the Druids - up until they became a problem for Roman occupation. But Caesar, Cicero and others spoke very highly of them as philosophers - comparing them to Pythagoras especially, due to allegedly similar ideas.
There were also cultural similarities between Gallic and Italic peoples.
What if the Galactic Empire won the Battle of Endor?!
Thats actually a good suggestion lol
Then we would have different sequel trilogy.
What if the rebels never existed
Well arguably the far better equipped, trained, and numberee Galactic Empire should have easily won the war but what do I know?
It would be an Anarchy, Cause of death of Emperor. Civil war continues.
We wouldn't have had Asterix.
That'd be sucky.
Waiting for this comment
FINALY a classic AHH vid
such a long wait but a worthwhile wait since we got a book and a great rome video
Joseph Krakowski your profile picture is Ned kelly, you’re a man of culture I see
Been watching your channel a few years now; so grateful that you put so much effort into these videos. You're able to bring a bystander into proper appreciation of events they never knew happened. Much appreciated, Tyler
Then ROME TOTAL WAR 2 WOULD NOT BE ON SPECIAL ON STEAM TOMMOROW
Thats smth to thankful for tho? Rome TW 2 sucks
@@kallmannkallmann While not perfect, the game has apparently come a long way from its buggy launch. It's actually worth considering. The Imperator Augustus campaign is included and the game's political system was overhauled not too long ago. Of the expansions, Empire Divided and Rise of the Republic seem the most interesting to me.
Is that the one where they added female generals? Or the first one?
What if Cody did a review of the alternate history of the Kaiserreich mod for Hearts of Iron 4?
CO2blast Kaiserreich is a shit mod.why would he review it?
@@mansamusa1743 I beg to differ, it's easily the best hoi4 mod there is, either you have nver played it or you'r a troll
Napoleon Bonaparte I've played it.Completely dull,the AI somehow manages yo be worse than in the base game.The same,predictable outcomes always happen.In short,it is Boring,too easy,and all around just a prime example of people claiming something is good when it really is just a polished turd.
@@RVE122 it's very good aswell, kaiserreich just has more interresting countries
@@mansamusa1743 Too easy? Yea i mean if you played one game as the commune of france on easiest diffculty, maybe. Tf are you talking about with csame outcome" , i have played like 40 games in kaiserreich and they barely ever have close to the same outcomes
Oh, and the Romans learned more about tactics from Hannibal than from anybody else. The Romans copied Carthaginian ships, but they also mimicked their armies. Both in composition and use.
That's why the Romans conquered lots of Europe! Because of their tactics, inventiveness, and cleverness
Two things you might understate (a little/too much).
1. Commercial exchange is a strong driving force for influence (technological and cultural).
2. We know very, very (very, very... you get it) little about the Celts but I doubt they were that "barbaric" (proof in their excellent metalworking, their scary fortifications, and some hints that their women were highly respected and might even have been chieftain/in a position of power). I'm not sure innovations like aqueducts, theatre and so on would have been "resisted" for long even if "only" brought "peacefully" by Cartage.
The tribes in what's now southern France, heavily influenced by Cartage traders, Greek cities (Massilia, Antipolis...) and maybe a bit by ze germans would possibly fight for local domination before the eventual (note that I say eventual, might take a century or two... or three) winner spread it out northward. Hell, when the time comes around for Vercingetorix and his shenanigans, he might even unite the Gauls and forge himself a Celtic empire. After all, tales of Alexander of Macedonia (and later of his generals) have spread and an ambitious man might want to imitate the legend.
Anyways, it pretty much all stops with the Huns: either western Europe is fortified under a few carthageno-helleno-celtics kingdoms and they can more or less slow the steamroll to a stop or they can't and we would all be speaking a weird mix of Gaelic, Germanic, and mainly Hunnic as of today. Or not and ultimately, vikings do come and do unite everything with a relatively high chance of success.
What if Cody released the second volume of The Atlantropa Articles?
*7:24** shots fired bois!*
Pope: Hi mom, I've got some good news and some bad news.
Mother: What's the good news?
Pope: I've just been elected Pope.
Mother: What's the bad news?
Pope: I have to move into an Italian neighborhood.
Not funny
not funny
Why was i expecting a Bill Wurtz meme?
very funny xD
Very funny. The Italians are not good people, much less good soldiers, and they are not trustworthy.
If Rome Never existed then most likely Carthage would have became the main power of the region.
Yeah that's literally what the video said
Hey, what if Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth didn't fall apart and kept Moscow for centuries, not few years instead?
Nobody expects the winged hussars
Impossible
Yeah, that one is basically a "How did this happen?" job. The whole thing was unstable due to the nature of its government, and the conflicting directions of its kings (who wanted to conquer the Baltic and other strategically useful regions) and the Szlachta (who wanted to control large swathes of Russia and the Ukraine, as there were large numbers of farming peasants to exploit there), combined with the Sejm's vetos, would always have doomed the country to either civil war or complete disintegration eventually.
Probably we will see an our timeline Russia but weaker and without the protecting cold. If they could survive to the XIX century, however, it would be interesting to see a country with more democracy than the others do in the Napoleonic Wars, as it could be an ally of Napoleon instead of the enemy that Russia, Austria and Germany was. Also, a lot more of cultures would be preserved, because the multiethnic state it was (like the Ottoman Empire, that now it's almost 20 countries with a lot of diffs between them). It would fall in the XIX century but instead of conquering more than the actual succesor countries would rise.
@@Jupiter__001_ I only ever knew "szlachta" as a word referring to this whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Szlachta
Sign.........
If the celtics used NordVPN in our timeline
The Romans won't even have a chance
the Celts can there own Empire in a sense be it a decentralized one based on trading and clan/tribal wars
From Ireland to Spain and Germany there arises a superstate oriented completely around soccer and booze.
Best comment. I can stop scrolling. : )
@@SelectCircle you're welcome
Glorious!
+Rasens99
The leader of that state was a Roman.
You need to reply in the context of this video. : )
It already exists, but is in south america and is called Brazil.
What if the Roman Empire was given electrical power, comparative to the 1960s?
Time to speedrun the Parthians
@@ChineduOpara the romans didn’t enslave just POC people, Italians, Greeks, Balkans, debtors, criminals, all got enslaved.
11:25 why didn't highlight Wales 🤔 oh well!
Why are the Welsh not Celtic
Might've mixed up Gaelic and Celtic
Rip my country
@@wednesdaynightbusiness6296 He can't have. Cornwall and Brittany are both Brythonic like Wales
Oversight in list-making.
@@wednesdaynightbusiness6296 Gaelic is a subgroup of Celtic.
Why is Wales never referenced as Celtic? I'm not angry I'm just dissapointed.
It's probaly one of the most celtic places, even more celtic than Ireland.
@@teresadaly7210 exactly, where else were the celts of Britain pushed to after being forced from England? And yet people consider Scotland Celtic, despite the Scottish coming from the Picts and Scots, being less celtic than like any of us?
Because, dude, outside of those with extreme knowledge of the most eastern posing of Europe, or those who are of direct Celtic or some sort of uk decent, won’t know about whales, or really care. I do get accuracy is important, but at that point, bring up whales is just unnecessary and a waste of script space.
@@hunterross9028 But including it would broaden inclusivity, bring more knowledge of the country to foreign viewers and give Welsh viewers a feeling of more belonging on the channels content. Its not a waste of script space at all, that's like saying mentioning Scotland is a waste and he may as well have just said Engladn
I feel you brother, Brittany is never mentionned at all, it's honestly outrageous.
when you talked about the Celts, you forgot to mention wales!
I think thats because everybody knows wales because of llanfairpwyllgwynheihw5ugeihgsjjvrfhjweghgogogoch
And Galicia and Brittany
I think he got that after the first 50 comments about it
You need your own tv show on History Channel!!!!
History Channel these days is nothing but made up crap and "aliens did it"...
João Rita can’t forget about all the Bigfoot shows
I put it on the "made up crap"...
"Do you know the Romans? they were Aliens."
- History Channel Cody
This is his own history channel
we'd probably end up with a civilized celtic empire eventually
Rain Dance for everyone!
definitely yeah
For one thing, europe would be a little bit more blond and blue eyed...
"Like Disney, but less evil" Sir, you made my day! :)
What if AlternateHistoryHub never existed
*shows post-apocaliptic world scenario*
I know about Etruscans thanks to thier ceramics
Their art is georgious. Anyone that reads this look it up!
wtfarthistory.com/post/21379170558/those-sexy-etruscans
l7.alamy.com/zooms/d78928e6eb5344088e120184b48c4956/etruscan-sarcophagus-with-two-figures-a9ppxm.jpg
Now this is epic
What if alternate history hub never existed?
Entire human history: *dies*
If rome didn't exist... Wouldn't a bunch of wars not happen? But also, a bunch of wars would of happened
A world without Rome is not necessarily better or worse just depends on how you look at it. Roman's did make kind of blue print to how most future societies modeled their infrastructure certain things we take for granted.
Yeah but like... What would it have meant for beards?
What if Cody made a video with Drew Durnil about Rome
I busted a nut
"What if Drew Durnil was heterosexual?"
Azoonaloc13 thats not realistic enough
@Alex Merezas Instead of a hairbrush?
@@Jupiter__001_ he's a paintbrush
Rome being gone so that means Caesar's Legion wouldn't be here, we mustn't let NCR take the dam!
Mojave nuke winter
Awesome video! I’d be interested in more analysis of the Germanic peoples in addition to the Celt focus.
What if _________________ existed?
FILL IN THE BLANK
What if fill in the blank existed? Its a very nice althist discussion about the blanks being filled existed.
kurdistan
Australia
OP
What if Finland existed?
YU no mention wales as celtic? Welsh is the most spoken celtic language in it's homeland!
P.S. It's now believed that the celtic expansion was a bit more complicated than how you put it. Genetic, and linguistic evidence points to "celts from the west" a popular theory that states that the celts originated from
indo-europeans that settled britain, and spain, coincidentally spreading their culture in much the same way
as you say the Carthaginians would. It is likely however that much of the celtic material culture and art
originated in southern germany.
P.P.S. its pronounced "gah-lick". "gay-lick" is referring to the Gaels aka the Irish, Scottish, and Manx (the gaelic language speakers)
also celtic culture survived within roman borders for a long time. Gaulish as a language survived in north
France till ~450 a.d. and old welsh was in britain all the way until the anglo-saxons came.
I like your videos, just trying to help you out on a subject I know not many people know much about, that I've put years of research into.
"It's now believed that the celtic expansion was a bit more complicated than how you put it. Genetic, and linguistic evidence points to "celts from the west" a popular theory that states that the celts originated from indo-europeans that settled britain, and spain, coincidentally spreading their culture in much the same way as you say the Carthaginians would. It is likely however that much of the celtic material culture and art originated in southern germany. "
I think I know which study you refer to and you may have a little misunderstanding here... What genetics has revealed is that most of western europeans populations are still geneticaly closely related to pre-indoeuropean populations. From what I remember, the study you mentions about britain and spain discovered that DNA from "british celts" was actually more close to that of 3000BC (not sure, but it was some thousand of years BC) iberic men than to southern germanic celts. Which mean that when indoeuropeans come from the East, they didn't erase all of pre indoeuropean peoples, but assimilated them... with enormous variation from one region to another; very roughly: the more you go north and east, the more people get IE DNA, the more you go south and west, the more people get non-IE, with some places like Sardinia where DNA is almost 100% non-IE.
But yes, celtic expansion was "a bit" more complicated. Even romanization did'nt happen exactly like he said, with southern "long-haired" gauls already being in the romanization process just before Gallic Wars (tribes like the Arvernii and the Aedui were allied to Rome and have strong commercial ties with the Republic and the Mediteranian world)...
European Antiquity is a very rich and complex subject.
y u use a ten year old meme that was cringe when it started and is still cringe. ragecomic looking ass
Here is another scenario that could have happened but no one talks about: Hellenistic Buddhism was big in Asia minor and wandering monks were all over the place. What if its influence spread to Rome and, before Christianity, the Roman Emperors converted to Buddhism and hence Buddhism, not Christianity, was the dominate religion of Europe?
@YoungD3mon314 Just because they are Buddhist does NOT mean they would be peaceful. Heck, maybe the Crusades would have been the medieval world war, with western "dharmadom" marching all the way to India to destroy the Muslims and liberate the Buddhist holy places, perhaps forming an alliance with the Mongols to do so.
rum runner wow sounds interesting
1:04 what soundtrack name is that?
I discovered what music is, the name is "salvation is coming"
what about Pyrruis, without Rome wouldn't he end up fighting Carthage and maybe gain Mediterranean dominance?
Great video, but there are a few inconstitencies here and there. The most major one being, in my opinion, the fact that the Germans... were celtic. "Gaul" and "Germany" were simply names given by the Romans, respectively to the Celts living beyond the Alps and to the Celts living beyond the Rhine.
Of course, there were cultural differences between celtic inhabitants of modern-day Aquitaine and modern-day Germany, but it was just the conscequences of a cultural continuum going through the whole celtic world, which was a vast mosaic from western Spain to the Baltic shore. Inside this territory were places where the Celts were not the dominant culture, such as Brittany, Vasconia, etc, but the Celtic world covered nearly all western, central and eastern Europe. So, German incursions and movements would certainly not be seen as "invasions", but merely the continuation of the many skirmishes that regularly took place all throughout the celtic world between celtic tribes.
More importantly : thanks to archeologist, we know there were great trade routes existing inside the celtic world, and even the Galates who travelled to Anatolia were still firmly integrated into the celtic trade network, so without the conquest of Gaul by Rome, it is plausible that this network would keep growing to the point it could compare to the Greek and Carthaginian trade networks. It is possible that such growing wealth and power would give birth to stable states, some kingdoms, federations of free cities, colonial empires, etc. Considering that the Celts were even better than the Romans at making weapons - at least until Rome conquered Iberia -, such stable celtic states could even win against Greeks, Carthaginians, or any other power.
With such a situation, the most probable outcome would be a very divided but very strong celtic Europe, with an important trade network creating strong links between states, which could hold a firm grip on the whole continent at least until the 5th Century and the massive arrival of peoples from the euro-asian steppe.
This is an interesting analysis, thanks for sharing. How does a growing wealth and power of certain cities and trade networks potentially mean stable states and kingdoms? I'm not familiar with this subject, so sorry if the answer is obvious.
@@somebodyelse9130 I may lack some vocabulary here, since English is not my native language, but I'll try.
Strong trade routes is a symptom of a stable political situation, especially in the ancient eras : to have a reccuring trade relationship in these times, two political entities - let's call that "states" even though it's anachronical - must at least know each other to an extent, have an overhaul understanding of one another's customs and ways of living and share a common ground built with time. The fact that not only the Celts managed to forge such strong trade routes but, moreover, connected those trade routes through a whole trade network is very significiant. Compared to them, Rome had to invade foreign lands and force them to become client states, whereas Greeks and Phenycians/Carthaginians had to establish strong colonies in order to secure strong trade routes. The troubled relationships between Athens and its allies of the Delos League, or between Rome and Egypt, illustrate the relative inefficiency of these ways, which, to be stable in the long run, need the hegemony of one party on the other, which in the end leads to the strong party absorbing the weaker ones. Which is very efficient but very costly, and Rome had to constantly expand for centuries just to equilibrate its finances.
On the other hand, the Celts had established a trading system that did not need the hegemony of one party over the others, in other words : a trading system that did not need a celtic empire to be maintained or even expanded. It is as efficient as the empire system, but far less costly. The weak side being that there is no strong state that can use its military power to protect the celtic world, but the strong side being that the trading network is not limited by the power of its hegemon/empire, such as were the Roman, Carthaginian and Greek ones. And the Celts achieved this despite their constant skirmishes, bickerings and rivalries. In fact, it is fairly plausible that these constant skirmishes, bickerings and rivalries were part of the conditions that made this situation possible. Kind of a "checks and balances" system, with a constant but low degree of conflicts between states, and where these conflicts are considered to be part of a normal relationship between states, on par with trade relationships, marital relationships, alliances, etc.
Wealth on the other hand is more of a consequence of having such a strong trade network. The wealth of a state has more to do with how any levies of ressources and revenues you can dispose of at any time than it has to do with how many ressources and revenues you accumulated at a given moment. Typically, when the Gallates settled in Anatolia, they were among the weakest in the region, being neighboured by strong greek city-states, coastal colonies, and even kingdoms and empires. They were numerous, but the kingdom of Pergame probably had more slaves than the entire Gallates population. But in a few years, the Gallates became the ealthiest state of Anatolia, establishing trade relationships with their neighbours and buying the services of renowed strategians. This was probably thanks to the ties with the celtic trading network, that they maintained even though they were hundreds of kilometers away from it. They could maintain such ties because, for the rest of the Celtic world, it was indeed normal to continue trading with the Gallates even though they had migrated far away from their native lands. Strong economic and political relationships had been established, and there was no reason to cut them off even though skirmishes, bickerings and rivalries were frequent.
In a span of decades, the Gallates became wealthy enough and thus strong enough to rival greek city-states, coastal colonies and even kingdoms. They sometimes raided their neighbourgs - while still trading with them, confirming that in their mindset the two were not opposite actions at all -, and resisted two greek coalition wars. Then the kingdom of Pergame called Rome to help, and the Romans won. And then annexed Pergame.
Don't you dare make me think about what things would be like without Daddy Roma
Who else watched this again after they uploaded part 2?? Boy am I excited to see part 2 now!! Cya!!
"'(The Roman Empire is) Like Disney, but less evil"
-Cody, 2018
Enormous mistake at the very beginning of the video: you forgot Massalia. Without Rome, Massaliots would have extended their area of influence and we can imagine that it would have helped the Greek civilisation to dominate the entire Mediterranean Sea.
What about 'What if Britain wasn't an island?'
It'd just be like Denmark then probably.
The way you portray ocean vs. land is confusing
I know right