Distinguishing the Finite Mind From the Separate Self
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- A man asks about the difference between the separate self and the finite mind.
This clip has been taken from Rupert's retreat at the Mercy Center in Spring 2019. To watch the full video, please follow the link below.
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I just have to speak on this … can we have the utmost gratitude 🙏 for these displays of heaven and understanding BEING brought forth for FREE through our phones safe in our hearts and homes 🏡 Are you trying to melt my center into infinite love through recognition and understanding ? Wonderful times to hear this beautiful message of HOME . Our birthright .
Justin. ... Of our true Self. 🙏
when Rupert said "we forget that we are infinte ... it instantly relaxed my mind .. thank you Rupert
The infinite must be concealed in the finite in order to experience itself; not to limit itself. Thank you Rupert
But if it's concealed it is limited or not ?
very thoughtful reply
@@moonglow6639 who cares? :)
I understand that existence is consciousness and nothing else. What is beyond unlimited consciousness? Can we talk about that
@@jigsatesfaye4138 Infinity is infinite. There can be nothing “beyond” it. By definition it must be all that there is.
wonderful talk
Only when finite mind becomes too much interested in outside world, it forgets itself and a feeling of being separate is born. Try to see a movie and be aware at the same time...you will never be affected by movie events.
This ! Is so exceptional I’m lost for words … gonna enjoy this peace 🙏🏻♥️so grateful for you Rupert! God bless you !
Thank you sir
Brilliant Description. Really amazing.
I am in love with your Being Rupert.
When you answer these questions. .. something dissolves within, there is lightness in the heart. You speak straight to my soul. ....and I know I say this on behalf of many listening to you.
Is this our shared being connecting? Or similar concepts in our minds simply approving each other?
Awaken Conciousness speaking to a dormant part of itself .... 💓 resonation
Ramana: a mind that realized it wasn’t a mind. What a wonderful apparent contradiction!
I believe that I have finally understood! 🙏
Very nice👍👏🌹.
Brilliant!!! Thanks a lot!!!!
👏❤️🎯🌹
Love this ❤
Master Blaster! Love you to eternity ❤💫🦋
Love the way Rupert put it: "The separate self is a finite mind which believes is a finite mind."
Respect and love, what more can be said for the master ,pranam
The veil was created to give awareness an honest and true experience. True free will.
I’ll now reply to my self:
Experience can be only subjective. When our interpretation transcends the veil (or the finite mind) then we may know what the knower knows of the knowing.
@@benmahaffey3942 yes but we can have an honest and true experience from a localized perspective without forgetting our unlimited nature no? Why would we forget who we are just to have to make our way back to an understanding of who we are? This is the question that I feel Rupert didn't answer
THANKS, That was always a question i would have loved to ask, if i were at one of his retreats!
but the answer leaves something open to me. after awareness concealed itself in experience, how is it, that it only remembers its true, self evident nature so rarely. its so simple actually. its only not, if your accustomed to thinking quiet differently of your self, but why did anyone start thinking of oneself so wrongly. i guess its a cheap trick we all fell for, to entertain ourselves or what? that doesent sound right though.
You often seem to struggle a lot with this regularly asked question Rupert and try to evade it with an unsuccessful answer. The question essentially was "WHY would consciousness seem to "compress" itself into a separate self?" and, in the same way as a number of times before, you haven't satisfactorily answered it here. The reason you struggle is that there IS no answer. The question itself implies a truism, but that "truism" never REALLY happened. It cannot have happened as there can be nothing outside of Oneness. The separate self simply ISN'T. The question "how could the impossible have happened?" is completely pointless: it DIDN'T happen. Consciousness doesn't "pay a price" for compressing itself into a separate self. Thank you so much for your amazing work though Rupert - you're a beautiful voice in the wilderness.
Hey is there a way I can chat with you so I could understand better what you are saying?
@@raec9970 sure Rae: mail@acousticgrowl.com
Very interesting reply Richard. But what do you mean saying at the end wilderness? What is the wilderness?...
Kind regards Andy
@@jadjad40 Andy, thanks for your kind words mate. 'Wilderness' could perhaps as easily have been the word 'desert'. There aren't many Rupert Spiras out there, and mankind needs his message, now more than ever. Too few are "hearing" it however, hence 'wilderness'.
@@acousticgrowl3826 very true indeed...
Good luck with your music. thank you
Muchísimas gracias!!!!❤🙏😊
so much thinking about enlightenment
I went into a book shop today and the first 2 books I was drawn too were with regards to this understanding. Quite old books. though truth has no age.
Why we need to forget ourselves in order to go to finite mind and to have the experience. Why do we need the experience ?
It’s all a balance of holding on and letting go. You are a separate self while at the same time infinite. Life is full of paradox. Just as love shall crown you and caress your tenderest branches that quiver in the sunlight, so shall it descend to your roots and shake them in your clinging to the earth. The more you evolve the separate self into loving its existence so shall you equally evolve with deeper roots into the womb of creation of oneness. The deeper you go into the form, the closer you get to the formless. Be creative, allow for paradox, and realize that all of who you are is a beautiful expression of the universe. Nothing should be rejected. When you accept it all as being a masterpiece, you will naturally find alchemy through the paradox.
DhanyabadDhanyabadDhanyabad Thanksgretitude
You don't really know what the Master was experiencing or what he was perceiving. It's all your mind again indulging in intellectual conjectures. His body may have had particular perceptions but it's just not possible for you or anyone to ascertain what HE was experiencing.
Who is this “Master" which you speak of?
@@westleywest7259 Rupert refers to Ramana Maharsi
well he had a human body with human senses so its not a huge jump of logic to take a guess at what he experienced
@@Ymiraku Now your "logic" tells you He was the body, but at the same time disregards the most basic teaching of all... and that's the whole point. The Master is not the body, same as you are not your body.
@@ZenMountain We or he are not ONLY the body. Anyone who is deepening their understanding of this non-dual teaching experiences no altering or disappearances of perception.
Yes, it is technically conjecture to say, "he saw only his surroundings in india and not london". But I am not sure, however, if this is a point worth discussing. Ramana himself never claimed any "special" perception or "supernatural" abilities. He was well aware of the limits of his body, which was just another object in our dimensionless consciousness.
I don’t think Rupert realized how zoomed out the Why question is.
Was manifestation worth the horrendous evil and suffering. Yes it’s illusory but it matters. The rest of the world doesn’t awaken all at once.
Why was the price paid is what I feel he is asking.
There is no conceptual answer to that.
I guess that’s the role of faith.
Agree. I also feel like in these discussions the tragic dimension of life and sheer suffering is often overlooked. It’s not all about knowing and unknowing and the pain derived from ignorance. Not only about our deluded minds. What about natural suffering? Was it necessary? And why so freaking much of it? Let’s zoom out yeah
Isaiah.. I have heard it said that manifestation was created to experience. And a full range of experiences comes with that. Yes, thankfully illusory, but sure can feel “real” at times. 🙏
yes, this is known as "the problem of evil." ...it's a big problem.
@@jpmarques7 this becomes even more important since most people follow these paths in order to become completely "free of suffering"
Right, there is no answer to that question. It’s not possible to know “why.”
You must first state that all this is real though in the first place right ? That there is a "world", a "separate self" and all these things. What if this isn't real at all, if it is just a dream dreaming itself with no purpose at all ? The characters in a movie think the movie world is real, when actually it isn't. So am I dreaming or not ? Do these things really exist or not ? This actual moment seems to exist, but isn't everything else just thought and therefore illusion ?
in the first place ... all this is a play.
please don't disturb us ... we are playing!
and yes, yes: we *know* that we are playing!
Yes.
Exactly! It is just a dream dreaming itself. The atom is empty space. This impersonal false sense in subject/object claims to substitute its made up delusional concepts for omnipresent divine Reality.
The forgetting or the separate self is the focused attention on thoughts or activities without the recognition of awareness.
So basically the separate self is the same ego, which in simple words of Eckhart Tolle is when you are not aware of your thoughts.
Once upon a Timeless time outside of time, you know everything ...
All is well, and all manner of thing was well, and all manner of thing will be well, because everyone whom you knew knows everything, too.
In spite of all current evidence to the contrary, there is no darkness; no evil; no ignorance; no sin; and no (real) pain because the truth of the way things are is now obvious to all. Nor was there ever any of those illusions or delusions, though this fact is not so obvious anymore. Not since you forgot where and who we are.
Back then (and even now), the fact that you all already always know and accept everything for what it is also means that you know that knowing everything entails knowing what it's like to not know everything, as well as what it's like to know only a very limited scope of things through the narrow slit of darkling light that is conscious experience.
That is to say, to truly and completely know everything - absolutely everything - you must somehow know nothing as well; and having an experience of nothing, and of seeing everything only through a tiny opening in the veil of nothingness that covers everything, is also part of the experience of knowing everything, however strange or paradoxical it may seem.
So then, what exactly is it like to always know everything already (including the experience of knowing nothing, or next to nothing); or knowing only the way things are within a very small ambit of the totality of reality?
I ask you again: What is it like? What exactly is it like for you now?
You already know everything now, and yet it appears that you know next to nothing. How can this be? Is some part of yourself forgetting, while the rest of yourself remains knowing all, and seeing all, and being all, along with everyone else? Or is there some other mystery afoot here - an unthinkable enigma too complex for a forgetful and limited mind like ours to understand? After all, if there really is something it is like to be an Unlimited Mind, then that unbound experience cannot limit something it is like to be a limited mind.
How could one go about verifying the astonishing assertion that we already know everything, even while clearly knowing hardly anything? Is there some proof? Some evidence? Or, even if there is no direct and incontrovertible fact that can be pointed to in order to unravel the enigma of our mysterious being, are there any signs or hints by which one might infer the truth of this grand paradox?
I think the guy was asking why don't we all have Maharaji state of mind? (a mind that knows both states at the same time?) but Rupert seems to have missed that 🤔
🙏🏼
The question that I feel wasn't answered is the following: yes we have to pay the price of becoming a finite mind in order to have a localized experience but why would we need to forget that we are truly unlimited being just to have to make our way back to that understanding during life? In other words, why couldn't we pay the price of becoming a finite being with a localized perspective WITHOUT forgetting that we really are unlimited awareness?
There is a man named Dharam Singh Nihang Singh in UP India who can answer that question for you. If you'd like to pursue this further.
@@sohila5033 is there a particular video on RUclips that you’re referring to or is this written in a book somewhere?
Exactly what was bugging me after I finished watching the video.
@@Fellasfaw Without experiencing the contrast between feeling like a finite limited self vs recognizing our unlimited nature, we wouldn’t know what the difference is. At the ultimate level there is no real difference, but contrast allows us to experience a difference.
There's something familiar, in a distant -memory kind of way, about the way I feel when I imagine knowing my true Nature yet chosing to live in a limited 'fake' world kind of life.
The I', and Consciousness,
cant be separated,
but the I' is still the I'
and Consciousness is still Consciousness.
The I' is the Only Real Steady Point,
in Existence.
Our Over-Consciousness, (Rainbow)
is Not created, also Eternal,
but the Base, of Creation.
Life-side and Stuff-side is Motion/Effect/Creation
Day-Consciousness and 'physical reality'.
Wisdom-Ocean and Motion-Ocean.
❤🙏🙏🙏❤
Any ego death experienced by a finite mind is the realization of no separate self. There is no place in my brain where a “self” is hiding.
But there is no brain, ever! The atom is empty space. A brain is a belief, nothing more, nothing less.
@@sandycarter5300 you should go follow a brain surgeon then
The brain does filter consciousness because it’s correlated with certain functions
It’s just not metaphysically what people think
@@sandycarter5300 and atoms still do exactly what we think they do
Empty space is irrelevant
Mind functions as a projector and receptor at the same time. Show me a self and a universe independent of the mind and its sense organs. Impossible. Show me a temporary subsequent independent of its preexistent constancy.
The constant in a pretentious posture is the temporary subsequent. It is constant vs constant all the way. And a self is a subsequent lost to its own constancy and fumbling around despite it being the constant.
I come from Juddi Krishnamurti teachings. It´s quite funny and interesting to find Rupert mindset on the same topics.
So. Why are my dreams almost always of a life which is almost the same as my finite minds life?
Because they’re happening in your finite mind...
@@epicbehavior
I don’t think that’s what he was saying...🤷🏼♂️
Who cares?
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Ramana Maharshi did not have any phenomenal experience after Liberation, Moksha.
Liberation is the attainment of permanent egoless state, or the Natural State (SAHAJA SAMADHI).
When Moksha was attained, the apparent Ramana never came back to waking state, no matter how he appeared to "others" in its waking dreams.
I repeat. Moksha is very, very rare. And It is not what most of modern teachers describe.
After moksha you are not in waking state any more, and you do have perceptions nor thoughts (any) anymore.
Jivanmukta is "dead in live"
This is perfectly described in the book
MAHA YOGA, by Laskhmana Sarma, alias WHO, a 20 years disciple of Ramana who submitted, previous publishing, all his books to Ramana for approval.
There are free pdf's on the internet.
MAHA YOGA is a jewel. Try It.
Will i be able to menifest myself in different body to experience more like next life after i die?
👍
What would be the point of birth if the Self remembered that it's Infinite? We would never get attached, or take this life seriously! I understand the need to ask this question but it doesn't really serve us in the grand scheme of things. It is what it is. Play your role in the theater and go Home.
Using the word "mind" is just so damn confusing! How about referring to this as a finite "sense" rather than as a mind. Also, why continue to engage at all in the "play", when from start to finish it's a lie? Yes, it is a lie because there is no intelligent matter, no actual mind or life in the apparent image. There is no actual body and no objective world to be experienced. That is always the excuse; that there is a world to be experienced. But there is no objective world at all. It is all just impersonal, unreal, and unlocated data. It is just dreaming. Consciousness is just dreaming away. How can this lie and this self deception be legitimate? When did self deception ever become a good thing or a worthy activity? Why keep up the charade? Why keep pretending that it's legitimate and real when it is nothing but a fiction?!! The belief in subject/object never makes a world. It never makes a personal, located reality. Mind remains wholly indivisible despite this grandiose claim of this impersonal false sense of life. Life is either wholly indivisible, infinite, perfect, or it is finite and inhabited by countless entities/ imaginary reference points believing they are individuals. It cannot be both infinite and finite simultaneously. One thing is true, the other is the lie. Nothing is ever localized except in belief. In other words, localization is just a false sense. How could there ever be actual "localization" when the concept of place only arises only from the belief in subject/object. A belief is not a reality. It is a belief, and all beliefs are meant to be transcended.
Why can’t it be both? The human mind naturally reduces things to an easy understanding, a dialectic of either this or that. God is beyond any of this. Look into “hypostatic union”, it’s a Christian term describing the nature of Christ, how he was fully man and fully god, at the same time, without any “fusion, confusion, or blending”.
@@adamgoldwasser For starters, there is no "human" mind. That is simply a term used as a kind of shorthand to describe finite sense. Finite sense is nothing other than the belief in objectivity, i.e., the belief in subject/object. This belief is impersonal, not personal. The "personal" only exists in impersonal imagination. What is termed "man" is consciousness itself, awareness/light, and this is not embodied. Perfect "man" is the perfect reflection of divine Awareness. True awareness is wholly indivisible and cannot be separated from its Source, God.
"It is man's own beauty, created in the image of God, that is contemplated and seen as divinity, whereas he himself still continues within the confines of his creatureliness. This is a vastly important concern. The tragedy of the matter lies in the fact that man sees a mirage which, in his longing for eternal life, he mistakes for a genuine oasis. This impersonal form of ascetics leads finally to an assertion of the divine principle in the very nature of man. Man is then drawn to the idea of self-deification-the cause of the original Fall. The man who is blinded by the imaginary majesty of what he contemplates has in fact set his foot on the path to self-destruction. He has discarded the revelation of a personal God.... The movement into the depths of his own being is nothing else but attraction towards the non-being from which we were called by the will of the Creator"
-Elder Sophrony
In my humble experience it appears that everything is “true” relatively speaking.
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sep self = ego