Hong Kong’s pro-democracy veteran Martin Lee believes ‘democracy will arrive in China’
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
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For almost 40 years, Martin Lee has been promoting democracy in Hong Kong. He helped draft Hong Kong’s Basic Law: the city’s mini-constitution that ensured the former British colony would enjoy a high degree of autonomy for 50 years after it was handed back to China. He’s also the founding chairman of the United Democrats of Hong Kong, predecessor of the largest pro-democracy party now in the city’s legislative council. In a recent interview with the Post, Martin said he believed “the whole world will have democracy” and that “democracy will arrive in China” even if it is the last country to adopt it.
(Photo: Jonathan Wong)
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When did Hong Kong first get democracy? - Hong Kong never has democracy, definitely not under the British rule.
The British never gave anyone democracy! Just an illusion. That’s how they managed to control 63% of the world territories 100 years ago.
At least Hong Kong had rule of law and justice! China not yet have both of these. Scary to goes from a society that have rule of law to a society that rule by man.
@@Gluluman AND 90% OF THEIR CONQUERED LAND WAS WASTELAND DEADLAND ,UNHABITABLE
Artarity KL after watching these youngsters acting in recent riots, I don’t longer believe hk is a place having rule of law. Btw, which form of democracy are you talking about here? Singapore def isn’t a democratic country and yet it’s the richest
@@dhhddh wait what did you say? HK rule by law? really?
The British never gave anyone democracy! Just an illusion. That’s how they managed to control 63% of the world territories 100 years ago.
Gluluman, you are right. I am totally agree with you. This is why The British never gave HK people any voting right until they known they need to return HK to China. I want to ask Mr. Martin Lee, Are these western politicians you met are genuinely helping HK or just using you to riot HK? So their country can gain something from China.
And how did that go?
All the commonwealth is a democracy ~
@Donald Kasper lol you gotta be kidding if you thought Hong Kong pre-colonialism had no hospitals, schools, science, and culture.
There is no such thing as democracy, only the capitalistic -economic system based on the private ownership. Which until 1780 the monarchy exploited to dominate and maximize profit, leverage and extend territorial powers while expend their dominion.
In France the monarchies and aristocrats opulence lifestyle brought us the French revolution, which led to the swift guillotine of Marie Antoinette & her siblings.
While the revolution was spreading from France toward the United Kingdom, it led the British monarchies, queen Victoria and her minions who later went on to form the Chatham house to concoct a plan in drafting what we all know today as modern democracy and its frivolous constitutional amendments, with rights, privilege and the ability to petition the government.
This was done in part or in full to appease the proletarian class-the scheme knows as democracy is ongoing as fraud and an illusion.
China 🇨🇳 🇨🇳 🇨🇳 🇨🇳 🇨🇳 🇨🇳 🇨🇳 🇨🇳 🇨🇳 🇨🇳 🇨🇳 🇨🇳 🇨🇳 🇨🇳 🇨🇳 🇨🇳 🇨🇳 🇨🇳
I am Chinese Hong Kong born. Unite is power!! One country ONLY ONE SYSTEM!! the system is Chinese system. We don't need to adopt nor integrate western systems. Our 5000 years of history out do and out experience and out smart western democracy.
Yup. That is why you copy everything from the west. Because your culture is so amazing
Socialism and communism are western ideologies…
If Mr Lee think that copying exact western style democracy to China then I think he is quite lacking in thinking. Why only think democracy as if it's the holiest system of government? why not think even a better system than democracy? democracy isn't without flaw just like authoritarian has its own advantages over democracy; why not combine and mixed the best out of all systems suitable to their own people to create something new? Democracy is the product of European history and not the whole world history (and certainly not China's), saying democracy is the best while ignoring other people's values, culture and way of life is like saying my religion is the best and the holiest so all of you must convert to my religion; quite arrogant.
Moreover, I think what Mainland China used right now is the combination of their own system (meritocracy) + Athenian democracy (within CCP)+socialism +capitalism. China has learned and realised that using just purely one ideology/system didn't work (that's why communism failed back then and largely discarded). I think it's better for China to find its own path, pure democracy isn't one size fits all.
He never said copy. There are many forms of democracy. Most stable version is in Switzerland with 0% power to politicians.
Sen Long no other country or people or culture is like china, not europe n certainly not little switzerland. Its no comparison n nothing out of there would fit a nation so completely different as china. We are creating our own if u dont mind.
@@kzphung8166 people just try to paint democracy as "evil" a very Chinese thing to say btw. But anyway there are different forms of democracy some people make it work some don't it's that simple. Fun fact : The countries with less power to politicians are the most stable ones and have the healthiest and happiest people in the world. I think the main reason for lashing out against democracy speakers is jealousy because of the lack of opportunity to actually be able to make a difference in their lives because the situation in mainland and other totalitarian countries are so suppressed that people need to vent their anger somewhere. The reason people are suppressed is because they let the government keep bully them and don't have the courage needed to make a change for the better of the people.
@@kzphung8166 I know several Chinese that would like a more open profile in the governance of the country. But of course they would never say this online because they are afraid of being kidnapped and taken to re-education camp. And they are not alone. Most people in China are subjects to daily corruption in one way or another and nobody likes it but in fear of punishment most people stay quiet about it.
@@Xaiando u want anarchy? swiss is joke.
I am from Hong Kong and I completely disagree with Martin here. The hk economy has been stagnant and is struggling to improve standard of living .Why? Because Hong Kong people have too much pride to join forces with China on new ideas, innovation. HongKong could’ve been the hub for technology and trade given our advantage with finance, language, logistics and smart minds. But instead it is cities in China like Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Suzhou, shanghai that are blossoming and growing at record pace, whilst Hk is rotting away with nothing. I truely blame the ignorance of the HK people for their false sense of superiority. Fighting for democracy is useless, HK people are being selfish and just not want to be somewhat suppressed by rules they are uncomfortable with. But do not get the big picture that for Hk to grow, it is unity that is more importsnr
Hong Kong people are ignorant and cocky that’s why
Pretty truth that HKgers feel superior just because HK was once a British colony so they think they belong in Britannia and no China， and that is why they r also racist AF towards others Chinese
Most British colonies have delusions of grandeur after its sovereignty is returned to the motherland. HK is no exception.
I live in the UK so I'm well aware of how the democracy system works in the west - different parties take turns ruling depending on who has majority votes. All votes are won based on dodgy promises. Everyone is out for themselves, but true power is still in the hands of the rich, not the people, who don't actually have a say over what laws are implemented as politicians lie and cheat all the same. It's all really a well dressed farce.
I believe that an autocracy sincerely wanting to benefit its nation and its people as a whole, is actually more beneficial than a so-called "democracy". China can be an alternative model to the political systems of the west. It's already happening and time will prove it can work.
omgitsmejeff yes we will work with China but with the price of losing our democracy
PeRvErTeD BaNaNa so be it, is rather live a prosperous life then struggle day by day under democraxy
this guy has deep slavery/colonial mindset , has no sense of national identity. I bet he think he is British. what he talk which is full of bias. not sure how can he became lawer and practice law. the fact is Hongkong has no democracy during colonial period, you were 2nd citizen living in hongkong. by the way he lied with his own vision of story
Don't worry lol, he never lived in South America or the Caribbean and if he did he will know that he is a Chinese
Jen L agree with u. He even went to England and USA to Voice their support and speak agaainst their own country.how pathetic.
@@freedomofspeechrighttoexpr1419 yes, pathetic
Shame on him !
Is it so bad to want those things though? is it so bad to not want to live in a authoritarian regime?
How come Britain never offer citizenship to HK? Why? They only treat HK like pariah.
UK, Portugal and Spain colonised so many countries but the people are subjects not citizens. There is no intention to give them citizenship in the first place.
Slaves don't gets it.
That would be basically proclaiming HK to be permanently part of Britain.
Macau citizens were offered Portuguese Citizenship when it was returned to China, but not the Brits. During the WW2, when Singapore was invaded by the Japanese, the British soldiers ran into hiding. The Chief came back to make peace with the Japanese Occupier by surrendering it to the Japan. That was a brave British colonial act👎👎👎
@@guestguest1577 I assume the explanation behind 12 people liking this insane garbage that is your comment is that you are a bot.
Hong Kong was lucky to have a negotiated peaceful return to Motherland. In Goa, Indian soldiers just walked into the enclave without any negotiation. This man is so hung up on democracy he is blind to thousands of democracy forms around the world, some of which are chaotic.
Sir, you are exactly correct in that there are many countries under democratic rule in this world that are in chaos.
A one-party top-down style government is all the Chinese have, but at least things are getting done. The GDP of the Chinese economy has been steadily riser and more and more of the country's population have been brought out of poverty. As we all know, China has not been a communist country for a couple of decades. It is basically one-party socialist country with a very strong-handed central body running the entire country.
People have been complaining about how the Chinese government has been running China and suggest that they should introduce democracy to the masses. But does anyone has any clue as to how you are going to go about implementing a western-style democratic political system in China? For a country with 4000 years of written history, China had always been ruled by dynasties and emperors with extremely centralized and top-down style of running the country. There had always been uprisings, riots and social unrest which invariably led to change of emperors or rulers. The country had been divided and later consolidated throughout the centuries. The top priority for the Chinese people is to be able to put food on the table and raise their families and have a stable society. If democracy give them social unrest and uncertainties, they won't have any part of it.
The rest of the world should stop telling China how to run their country. The West seems to think they have the monopoly on the"higher moral plain field" or is it the reminisce of the imperialism / colonialism days!
It would be just as inappropriate for China to tell the rest of the world to switch to a one-party political system.
Each year, over 100 million Chinese do travel abroad and 99.999% of them did return to China. So, if things are so bad in China, why would Chinese tourists border to return home?!
Perhaps, for now, their current political system is the optimal approach for running a country with close to 14,000,000,000 people that spread over a vast geographical area! That's a lot of mouths to feed...
Democracy > Communism
@@ningen7736 Learn the word Communism. It's differ from the way China system working on Economy. China is already a socialism country.
T C 👏👏👏
@@tc6578 This is the reality
Democracy is a western concept that don't really work well for Asia. Beside lacking on ensuring competency of goverment, implementing democracy will also ensure that US will have a access to a loophole to interfere and appoint a puppet to prevent a nation from surpassing the US. Voters are not rational and are subjected foreign propaganda like how US always does to others. China already perfected the framework of Socialism with Chinese Characteristics that stress capability of leaders rather than pandering to populistic views. And best is China is not exporting their model while US is forcing their western democracy onto others through economic sanctions, armed invasion and subvert operation that put nations in ruins and poverty. Democracy is fast turning into a perpetual circle of 'elect and regret', doesnt you guys feel it esp in recent years ?
But what are your thoughts of Hong Kong going Socialist?
@RocketSTI macron won thru demcracy no ? Look at the result. Democracy gives the illusion of justice but in fact fails to deliver it because voters are not rational and the politicians always pander to populism just for votes.
@RocketSTI How is France an extreme case ? It is one of G7 and a strong proponent of western democracy, always on the front line with US to invade nations(Iraq, Afghan) to force upon them democracy no ? Look how those nations are still in ruins. Oh wait, how about Britainwhose gov keep delaying the exit from EU despite the brexit result ? Democracy is failing worldwide.
Before the handover, a lot of people thought he was going to face a firing squad 😆
If he is executed on June 30, 1997 by the arriving PLA or before , one country one system is fully implemented in Hong Kong as planned !
If he face firing squad the law court of Hong Kong will be immediately bombed next and a fully declaration of war with Britain will follow !
@@canman5060 are u kidding? The brits wont go to war for hongkong, for a bunch of chinese people 😂
@@canman5060 And the Brits will surrender to the PLA as the surrender to the Japanese in WWII
@@eugenepeng8379 The Brits surrender Malaya and Singapore to the Japanese forces (including soldiers on bicycles) with little resistance . Do you think the Brits will fight for HK ?.. Big Fat hope.
He is hallucinating that Beijing had ever agreed to give HK his version of democracy. The history also pointed to the fact that neither did the British believe in giving HK true democracy when they were the government. HK was, in fact, given more freedom from China than HK's previous colonial master. Mr Lee condescending and myopic notion of what is democracy has no place in current pluralistic world.
This old Martin guy is delusional and has zero credibility.
Dude. Even he admits it.
In so many words, Mr Lee regretted believing Mainland China will hold their promise.
@El Bottoo its always been about freedom and democracy. The bill was just a trigger. Face it HK is not part of China its already its own country with international borders, economy, currency
Democracy as it is, is almost bankrupt in developed countries and it has never worked in developing countries. This system has not being evolved with time and it is hijacked by the super riches and special interest groups.
There is no one size fits it all political system, each country should develop an unique system best for its own culture and situation and continuously evolves.
I don't question China's political system will evolve but I doubt it will be as simple as one person one vote.
I do think democracy isn't always the best system for every country. Western countries were always interested in Freedom (free thoughs, liberalism, human rights activists,.....)
For their mentality, democracy is the best system. I see asians are much more disciplined to think about what the society want them to think ...Society have more to say about their life than themselves.
Some culture will succed better in a free society if they have creativity, smart kids, knowledge..
Some culture will succed in a controlled environnement or by riding on the back of others
So what!? You preffered back to your Ming days, bub?
@@nurlindafsihotang49Certainly not under US empire.
@@YouYou-sm8tf Well said!
A Fun Guy Named Kawhi says:
"Democracy as it is, is almost bankrupt in developed countries and.."
==
It's the capitalism that destroying the democracy, not the other way around.
Isn't it the same thing happening China?
corruption?
It's just not the democracy that it's destroying but the party.
I am pro capitalism, but tbh I don't believe democracy is the solution to every country. But of course this also includes the degree of democracy.
I don't believe in democrary either. But usually rule of law comes with democracy, which China lacks. Hong Kong is a city with high level rules of law, I guess you would agree the people would be scared if their city would shift from rules of law to rule of man. (which is already happening)
if you like communism go. its ok to be poor as long as im free....
@@dhhddh what the current situation in HK..rules of law still working?
Totally agreed
LOL. You can't have capitalism without democracy. Even in democratic states, state still try to interfere with capitalism from time to time, let alone authoritarian state which has absolute power to intervene.
Singaporeans may have the vote but certainly not a democracy. It has been led by the Lee family for so long. Singaporeans don't care because they have freedoms and prosperity. Singapore is no means only Chinese Coummity there is a large groups of Malays and Indians. It's location and rule of law provides Western companies with access to countries surrounding it. ASEAN countries are largely democratic but do very poorly economically.
An independent HK would just die overnight. Mainland Chinese need not treat HK specially. Our officials couldn't go to Chinese government to say increase the supply of pork, etc. US wouldn't be able to use HK as a base for democratic movement and cause nuisance to China. HK is less the gateway to China with the opening up of China, hence HK can no longer at this role. HK is a service orientated economy with many links to China an independent HK would loose many is special treatments.
Most democracy are follow USA and to a point are servants to them since world
trade is done in USD and dependent on US aid.
Martin Lee father of democracy in HK did a bad job during negotiations between China and HK. He has achieved very little for HK. Off course he blames Chinese leaders for not acting on their promises.
You said ASEAN countries are largely democratic, but Singapore (a member of ASEAN) is certainly not a democracy. Then what are you talking about. Singapore adopted the British Parliamentary System of government. Open, transparent, free and fair elections are held every 4/5 years to elect the government. How is that Singapore is not a democratic country, a democracy. Must Singapore follow the American system, like the Philippines, to be considered a democracy??? LOL FYI Singapore was lead by PM Goh Chok Tong for 14 years after Lee Kuan Yew and before Lee Hsien Loong took over. And there is no Lee family to take over when Lee Hsien Loong retires from office as PM.
Martin had never had a leverage about HK's negotiation. HK was in China's hand before 1949. It was a plan
Martin thought everything is the same meant Lee got the sameimportance as before 1997? No, it is different, HK has more freedom, and Lee gets more important, He got to start a separatism riots in HK!
HK should be responsible for the blood of the 1989.6.4.
EC S we only get to choose mainly between PAP and worker party those there are other parties for our estate. We can’t choose who to govern the country as it’s chosen for us.
Funny, even British doesn't allow Hongkong independent. Martin is crazy!
If Hong Kong indepence was a possibility, British would not return Hong Kong to China. They would rather to have a independent H.K. which is 200% pro Britain or United Kingdom.
I find it weird that no one ever mentioned why all these years Hong Kong people has never ever received citizenship and/or elected their own governor under the British rule, and everyone was fine with THAT.
Exactly. You are right. These people are a little thick
Martin was educated in the West and failed to understand why HK was a colony in the first place.. ! And the western democracy can elect clown, joker and potato to run their country.. and get change when they under perform..!
China, on the other hand, has its unique democracy to choose and nurture candidates for leadership roles.. based on accomplishments, responsibilities and accountabilities..! What does Martin knows about China's unique democracy when he made such derogatory statement?? By the way, if China political structure is wrong.. it wouldn't have become the second largest economy (and its going to become the largest too)..!!!👍😃
Indeed. West never bother to understand chinese 科举制度 system of meritocratic 'selection+election' that ensure a competent government.
Very strange indeed, whilst Martin Lee claimed the Basic Law promised Hong Kong continuation of pre-handover laws and democracy, but for argument sake, Hong Kong that has never enjoyed democracy nor universal suffrage, the continuation of pre-handover laws would mean Hong Kong should not morph into a democracy under the Basic Law and any plan to implement democracy would be anti-Basic Law.
He is not too democratic...What happen in Hong Kong is not a movement for democracy. They are separatist dreaming of a independent Hong Kong...Doing anything at any cost including destroying Hong Kong....By the way Singapore is not really a democracy.. but very prosperous.. If the democracy is the only thing is important ? why few people in Hong Kong immigrate to countries like India, Pakistan & Bangladesh. ..
Western power nations are so advance because of the industrial revolution not because they have democracies. Most democracies in the world are under developed nations
Zimbabwe is the poorest country in the world with democracy ?
Darren Chu if the China is so great, then why there is a rush to immigrate to Western countries ? Development and democracy doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive. Cast your eye across to Taiwan and see how two co exist
Of course not all 1 billion Chinese can migrate to west but set against this number of population, even the tiny drop is a huge number. And the sentiments are same, lack of rule of law, environmental degradation in terms of pollution, lack of rights, and even not trusting the quality of stuffs one consume everyday like milk or meat etc.
if your logic holds true, why isn’t there westerns moving to China in droves ?
@@tenzinthinley8764 there are millions of Americans and Westerner are working & ,living in China, too.
Darren Chu are these millions of Westerners taking up Chinese residency cards and becoming Citizen of China ? Don’t deluded yourself
@@tenzinthinley4005 first thing they have to do is to learn Chinese. Which is a difficult language to learn. I never said China is great, now.
Don't get confused Hong Kong with mainland China. Before the return to China , income per capita in Hong Kong is on par with USA. After the return ICP is about $46K /year. About a quarter below U.SA. Because the so so called opposition parties are opposing & delaying every infrastructure projects. All the infighting are slowing it's economy. They use democracy as a disguise which is something . British neverallowed H.K. to have. . H.K. is an auto nous zone under the basic laws till 2047 by the Sino/British joint declaration. H.K. is much more democratic than before. What the opposition want is a independent H.K. And if that was possible Bruttish would rather to let Hong Kong to be independent . Have a pro Britain regime then return it back.
I am 99% sure you are one of those American never travel to China or Hong Kong
Imagine the all nations running on democracy
So that the america can lead them
Imagine every country becoming UK OR US. A nightmare to the conservatives and mental torture to people living democracy.
imagine world war III
@@BhootFmOfficial786 nope so America can enslave them
@@azuaraikrezeul1677 WORLD PEACE at LAST!
Pro Dem party in HK, you should tell US to free Julian Assange and Edward Snowden first
Irrelevant lol
Henry Hui - fully agreed
You mean to free the two spies working for Mainland China ? No way !
Tell CCP to close its reeducation camps
@@canman5060 FREE JULIAN ASSANGE
ruclips.net/video/vMjFrFAukjw/видео.html
FREEDOM OF THE PRESS WESTERN STYLE
ruclips.net/video/aE6BusngMZs/видео.html
Democracy will arrive China, but we most chinese believe it is not western style.
Western style is tax more taxes.
It is an entire package not just a partial package. Like 30 - 70% of your incomes goes back to the CLEANERS. It's actually the hidden part of Western democracy most HK people don't realize or refuse to accept.
Be careful of what you wish for.
Democracy with no right to sell vote is fake democracy
Sure it will be an eastern style of democracy, which is basically communism is disguise, right ?
then what style it is lol？ the style when emperor Xi is ELECTED with 100% upvotes like North Korea? the style of ban and prison Chinese people who wanted more human rights in mainland?
@@afewthoughts7755What the diference between Soros and his friends, the 1% banksters, that spend billions dollars to elect Obama, who used 7 trillions dollars tax payers money to save private banks? What kind of democracy that support "private gains public losses"?
Did he ever asked democracy during British colonial?
@flower flower you didn't answer the question
Did you not watch the video? He literally tells a story about approaching the British governor and asking for democracy! He formed his group United Democracy (or whatever it was called) when the were still under British rule. So you can drop this useless talking point all you CCP defenders always bring up. Smh.
@@judosailor for more than 100 years, British didn't give any democracy to hong kong people, as Hong kong is british colony, but suddenly British wanted to given them vote right just before the handover. Why? Because they wanted to cause troubles for China.
Barea Ye That’s a completely different point than the original comment. That said, you are still wrong. Or at least, that wasn’t the only reason. HK had already been moving towards democracy well before the handover. And I guarantee you, if GB was still in control of HK today, they would have democracy.
John Wilson True. But there were a few failed attempts, and several proposals along the way. They were already heading towards democracy and would have achieved it by now.
Lee do not really understand Deng Xiaoping, whose main target is for China to catch up in economy. BTW: British government has never delivered democracy to HK. Many HK protestors still want to be colonised by Britain. So democracy is just an excuse. The only way out for young people in HK is to have a larger vision, study harder and work harder. Democracy will not necessarily deliver freedom. Diligence will.
The top court in HK is staffed mostly by british commonwealth judges. Hey, give them 50 years, but we control the courts.
Maybe they didn’t have full democracy but they have had more access to fairer court trials and freedom of information and opinion compared to the mainlanders
@@angelinimartini So the court becomes the main reason for worse lives of some Hong Kong people?
study harder and work harder to pay more tax to China!
@@antruong7284 Hong Kong did not pay a single penny of tax to mainland China.
He is so skewered about democracy he forgets that democracy has NOT solved the world's problems.
Infact democaracy is a stumbling block to many emerging nations' growth due to endless conflicts between governing parties!
Why won't he just compare India,the largest democracy in the world, with China???
Is he blind that democracy has infact chained India and caused this huge inertia from which India cannot unshackled from her backwardness???
Martin is just a Fool.
HKong or China does NOT need democracy but instead Meritocracy and Competency....that is all!
He probably just watches western propaganda.
myeverettnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Political-Outhouse-2.jpg
Just like Indonesia, too much "democrazy"
People don't have respect to their government, too much political parties, most of the political parties members are from out of nowhere (artists, etc), no skills, only looks.
there is not a perfect system, look at Greece where the democracy born, very decline country now
Indonesia is a corrupted country
The problems of democracy is corruption but with anti corruption bill is in effect that country will prosper like Japan and South Korea. But I bet you country is practicing democracy because if not you were not here.
Not democracy country, still have access to RUclips, I'm working around the world, and I did use many providers, I don't see any reason u couldn't access RUclips, sometimes I'm using vpn just to get adult content lol😂
In the end I'm still around now
BTW japan n Korea, especially Japan are in decline lol
Democracy better than comunis
Democracy better than comunis lol
Martin Lee’s comment about plucking the flower makes no sense. The “garden” belongs to China. Hong Kong never had democracy. He’s determined to be a dog for the British. Ethnically he’s Chinese. He lived in Hong Kong during British rule, like I did. Correct me if I’m wrong, but did we have democracy in Hong Kong under British rule? Is the British governor back them democratically elected by us, the people of Hong Kong?! The Chinese weren’t lying about changing the flag and the governor. The British governor had absolute power in Hong Kong did he not? He tries to sound reasonable but is “forgetting” to mention so many opposing issues. Back then, all we cared about was peace and prosperity. I am not a fan of the communist government. My family and I fled to America to escape the handover. But I’m very happy to think that China prospered and lifted almost a billion people out of poverty. Who else has done that? Give credit where credit is due. I love democracy, and love my life in Los Angeles. Yes, I wish for democracy for the whole world. But please give China a chance to get there. The government is very young, compared to the British and Americans. They also didn’t have democracy in the beginning. As the middle class prospered, more rights were given and now both countries enjoy tremendous freedom. It will be that way for China too. Wait for it’s middle class to grow even richer and more powerful. As a richer part of China, Hong Kong has no right to ask for independence. It’s like California wanting to be independent because we’re one of the richer states that subsidized many other states. To think that way is unpatriotic, selfish and ungrateful. I love my new country, ALL of it. If you hate China, move. I did. But don’t make up facts and try to claim the moral high ground. I love America but I will never forget that I’m ethically Chinese. I’ve seen us bullied in Hong Kong, Singapore, Indonesia, all over the world really. A strong China gives me pride as a Chinese American. A government has to take care of all its citizens, not just the rich spoiled ones.
jeffc168jb wow thank you
Singapore is a dictatorship, or a dictatorial democracy at best. There’s a reason for China to glorify and follow the Singapore model of governance, it’s very effective and most importantly, Lee kwan Yew crushed all dissidents and was not at all afraid of the criticism of being a dictator, as long as he can deliver on the economic front to become the richest nation. That’s why I’m not as optimistic as Martin that Democracy is going to happen in China eventually.
He’s intelligent. But just a lawyer, not politician. The biggest difference between intelligent man and great man is perspectiveness. Deng is a great man for China.
This guy is talking theory. Theoretical democracy is not the same as implemented democracy. Even the famous US of A is not a pure democracy. The most democratic nations of Northern Europe are not pure democracies. Dreams of democracy without the pragmatic blueprint of implementation will only leave HK in ruins.
When HK in ruins? Since Chinese Communist Party through Carry Lam coerce extradition bill, right?! 😊😊😊
*China is doing great with their own system*
Everyone wants to live in a democratic country but would it work in a country with 1.4 billion in population? Western democracy seems to be eating themselves right now and China is taking advantage of its flaws. Making China democratic at a time when the US is pushing protectionism would weaken the country substantially.
Afghanistan rejects democracy...
Regardless of political ideology, population etc...what is so wrong with giving people freedom to chose? There can never ever be anything wrong in that. Plus the freedom to say and think how you feel, and if you disagree. Weather by Elections or revolution the people allways will have there voice heard in the end. Its the only voice that matters.
I see where the Hongkong protect come from now. It's from these lawyer who seeking independancy. Georgraphiclly, it's impossible for Hongkong to be independant. Law is not the real weapon to protect your people. It is the strong military force. Hongkong doesn't have it's own military force. How can it be independant? These people must have read too much law books and thinking they can do anything with the laws.
Intelligence 100
Mr. Lee has been brainwashed by the British & the Americans obviously.
@@hong-leongow-yeang7468 you have the most stereotypical Chinese name in history
military force, there are countries w/o it and they are independent, like Japan..but they are protected by US; maybe HK can do the same
@@vennue9958 You idiot should read some book and study before you say somthing. Japan has top class military force in the world. They can defend invasion from its neighbour hood. I do support Hongkong to be independancy if they can defeat Chinese army. That's the only way Hongkong can be independant. All the protects are wasting of time. Better to pick up guns and fight.
Rioter Lee , British never give HK any democracy for past 100years, and u still talk about Singapore and yes Sg is democracy country but u never know PAP doing well manage for SG, only one strong party can make the Country stronger , that's why Singapore is very successful . Don't tell me democracy is go out to street to make violent activities ! Wake up ur mind !!
when he is under British rule he is silent. ridiculous reasons
Democratic countries abide by the rule of law and the law states clearly that HK would revert back to full Chinese sovereignty by 2047. HK laws must be gradually aligned with those of China's starting from TODAY
Right now, it is full Chinese sovereignty.
Mr Lee thank you because if not for people like you we would not have advanced as much as we have. Your a level headed righteous man fighting for the rights of people. I applaud you and thank you!
Every systems had flaws. There will be no systems that is all perfect
Democracy is still the best system for removing the crooks from the government without killing anyone in the process...
@CHNW I'm afraid you don't understand what Gabriel said.
@CHNW Just because you have to fight and die for democracy doesn't mean democracy is bad. Slaves have to fight their master to be free...many died...
USA are imperialist, they don't represent democracy just because they have it, democracy is about "FREE CHOICE and GOUVERNEMENT CHOSEN BY THE CITIZEN.
You will always have to fight to get your right, you shouldn't be forced to be under a dictator gouvernement if you don't want to.
DEMOCRACY is the best system that allows you to have a say in how the gouvernement should act or do things.
But I know that for the moment, democracy won't work for china. But one day China will have democracy. It's a natural instinc like Freedom.
Imo, the "intention" of democracy is universal, but not the western democracratic system. That to me is an early model of what may become more universal but not yet there. Base on culture and history, my guess is that, Chinese democracy will be more, free individual and government where both do not really care what the other is doing because of a level of responsibility built into the country, system or culture but with a family background. The natural path has already begun, with sons and daughter having already surpassing their parents creating more say into their life. Following this trend, the people will surpass the government through education of themselve and the government without needing to fight which should be the Chinese way.
Western democracy contributed alot to western countr"y" but for their country to grow further through things like european union and globalisation, their democracy need to atleast make temperary adjustment or further long term development to bring left wings and right wings closer together in compliment of each other. The success of this should also bring the world even closer together making globalisation much more beneficial among many things where disagreement may surface. Statistically life is getting easier, but emotionally, life is getting harder largely because of everyone is drifting apart.
@@gabrieldeluca9790 MI6 in the democratic world ! They can killed any political opponent without leaving any trace behind.But China do it well in the open.This is the essential difference !
Why didn't you ask UK for universal suffrage ? China didn't do anything wrong， when the lease is up China has the right to take the land back，
Agent. Fake acc6
Fake account
It one country two system, country interest must come first before HK two system to work. If a nation sovereignty is being challenged, how can the state of HK law be uphold. Why I mention nation interest and sovereignty because this a anti China riot, so it no longer just a HK internal issue. China sovereignty being challenged.
The 2 system always been enforce, China as you said use HK as their gateway to western nations thus always maintain that treaty. So why you keep insist China robbing your freedom yet do not provide any facts to support your claims. How is your personal democracy being rob? Yes it personal as you can’t enforce your own opinion of democracy to China, democracy mean everyone have a voice, so why you trying to force your opinion on China. If China called themselves democratic of China without changing anything then you be satisfied? The word democracy so important? You too shallow in mindset.
Yes you lying about currently situation, as it nothing to do with democracy. You trying to link democracy to freedom to violence. You as a lawyer is disgusting as you support criminal activity and yet call it justifying as it democracy.
Lawyers like you should be disbar.
Very well said!
Great! Agreed
Wow you are so delusional, did you even watch the video? The current situation in Hong Kong was never mentioned in the video, so I have no idea how you linked Lee's comment on democracy to supporting violence.
"The 2 system always been enforce", really????
The Chief Executive personally said that if she had a choice she would have resigned. So tell me, how is the 2 system in enforced when the leader of the government can't even step down on her own will? If the leader of Hong Kong Gov is just a rubber stamp of Chinese Gov, how is this really "2 system"?
@@explofct Agree.
Tom L. It’s hard to argue with Chinese nationals when they’ve been indoctrinated by the government since childhood
Hong Kong was never in a position to consider any form of independence because China was too strong militarily then and even more so today. Eventually China too must embrace democracy BUT it must be done without foreign intervention especially from the West, specifically the US.
@@nurlindafsihotang49 At those time China was fragmernted and the big powers were having their zones of influence. Now China is a united country
@@ifigeniaa like China is the only one. Whole asia got the same treatment, mind you!.
@@nurlindafsihotang49 By whom? by democratic countries too?
@ So who give you the right to impose on others your ideas? Look at Libya, or Iraq, it didn work. Vietnam work because they defeat the froreign imposed ideas. Even now US is getting friendly with Vietnam
@@ifigeniaa actually, yes. Remember allies/western bloc?
Boy, do they made asia their weapons test playground.
Dear Martin Lee, eventually Native Indians in North America and Aborigines in Oceania will get back their land.
And so will the Tibetans a d Uyghurs...
@@tigerjonn LOL
No they won't.
Anyone want to rule 1.4 billion with democracy like India??
Democracy is best for India because in India it is in our ancient philosophy.
@@sarveshsingh8729 The caste system?
@@violajackson6885 The Caste system was introduced in India for better administration but as time goes on some caste become so powerful and that led to discrimination to other peoples. This type of discrimination is always happens when one community becomes powerful than other community.
Our Founding Fathers that's why drafted a constitution after independence that enshrined more privileges to those lower caste communities to fill that gap.
@@sarveshsingh8729 Oooh
china and a billion population into democracy, that would be chaos.
Meyowee Yaaw , That is so true! Hong Kong is the best example now.
That would be beautiful.
Not true. India is democracy.
Democracy will come to China, I agree with that point of view. But no way we should be supporting violent dissidents who are not intent on breaking barriers but raising walls of distrust.
During all these riots he did nothing. He did not come out and condemn the violence, arson, assault on police, destruction of public property, people being beaten up, intimidation from these so-called democracy thugs, total disregard of human decency. Not once! Shame on you!
China had democracy way back in 1912 when most countries around the world today were mere colonies.
S̝E̝N̝A̝T̝O̝R̝ A̝G̝R̝A̝P̝A̝ they never had democracy even back then
@@itsnotaphase2074 You don't know Chinese history; back then, despise arm embargo had imposed by few European countries; any group of Chinese can purchase arms and fight each other to death. Real wild.
Is the 3 Principles of the People considered as democratic?
@@IndependentWestBengal dude, are you blind? I point at @Black Panther.
And that democracy further weakens china. Till they embraced socialism.
Li Zhuming, (Martin Lee Chu-ming), why didn't Hong Kong seek independence from UK? What a shame.
The key question is 'why didn't you desire independence during British rule?' This fact alone reveals that you are a traitor.
As democracy as Iraq? As Syria? As Sudan? Like East European countries now?Oh, great!
Like Singapore 😊😊😊
He on NED payroll.
So? Ya'll keep repeating this like it's some big secret lol. NED funds anyone, any party that supports democracy and freedom WORLD WIDE. How is this a conspiracy??? Fkn idiots.
And?
@john lee ruclips.net/video/0Go2jAEtFD8/видео.html
@john lee likewise. China can keep believing what they want. What can they do? Storm in HK with PLA to change minds? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@john lee Trying to find truth about CCP by watching CCTV is like trying to find truth about Putin by wathing Russian cable news. Do you thing CCP has isolated China from the Internet and imprisons people for talking about things they don't like exposed (like Falun Gong or Tiananmen Square Massacre), because they plan to be honest on national TV? Cmon. You use VPN to be here. Use your brain too.
First all China is already partly democratic. The 'communism' in CCP is misleading. China's political system is unique, its a combination of authoritarianism, democratic process and capitalism.
There is always a chance, unfortunately Mr. Lee you wouldn't see it happen now that you are over your eighties. Don't bring your hatred and anger to the coffin simply out of revenge against the people back then for not giving you grant to study law. History will be the verdict of your action.
Dear Mr Martin lee , Singapore is not chinese community , Singapore is multiracial community although majority is Chinese , but Singapore is not only Chinese Singapore got Malay , Indian ,and other's race. You can't say that .But its not about democracy , it's the people to have a stables living ,stable job and stable income and a home. And a family.
He is Gweilo with Chinese appearance.
Cohen Xu 对、他不是人，是鬼，
At 06:05 he was wrong on his opinion on Deng opened up to capitalism, it's not because of HK but because Deng is so impressed with Singapore. It's said in Deng's and LKY's speech on both sides on China's use of capitalism!! He needs to read more books on Deng and LKY, i think he has the illusions on HK he created for himself.
Is the whole world has democracy there will be no world left ! This guys a fool
the Chinese communists are like the audience and the people of Hong Kong are acting in the movies they watch. At first they wanted to pass the extradition bill, but they probably plotted two options. either the bill was passed or the Hong Kong people protested in addition to stirring up inside people to lead to violence that many people agreed with for the Chinese communists. and they have a reason to merge Hong Kong and abolish Hong Kong's democracy.because from the beginning until now, only Hong Kong people who have suffered the most in China but have not suffered anything, must recognize them as true as they have the traditions the crafty trarder. as Taiwan is also Taiwanese, but they have their own army and regime so mainland China cannot oppress them.
when the British was ruling HK, how did you ask democracy from them?
Lee was too busy being a lap dog
Well, they finally gave it to them. ....Where is it now, and WHO TOOK IT from them?
@@MrJm323 you can't give something when it's no longer your territory.
@@Nanokillaz The British gave it to them two years BEFORE they gave it up. The Chi-Coms said they wouldn't change these institutions -- the ones the British had set up.
What Martin Lee meant was Democracy with Chinese characteristics and not American Democracy. Chinese democracy is based on every citizen is equal before the law; whereas American democracy is based on the self-serving Golden Rule; aka the one that owns the money makes the rules.
Which Chinese democracy? Taiwan? China? Does China has any democracy?
Yes, for sure. But not the western-style or the US backed democracy.
China should try democracy Pancasila by Indonesia. 🇮🇩
There's 41 million people living in dire poverty in a country of 325 million wich we call the USA It is the wealthiest country in the world yet after centuries of capitalism & decades of recent prosperity & accumulation of wealth Capitalism has increased the wealth gap b/w rich & poor people in America 95% of the economic gains made in the US since the last crash in 2008 went directly in the pockets of 5% of the population while the salaries of most americans stagnated ! In most of the western countries the situation has been similar since 2008 & the coming recession, many say it will be a crash worst then 2008 that will last for a decade maybe more will increase the wealth gap in demopcratic countries significantly & that will have dire consequences on our democracies & social structures Some believe that it will cause much violence & social upheavals
Capitalism can not work if it's not balanced with social policies & protected against the greed of the elites ruling the world economy
Since the mid 70s the wealth gap b/w those we call the world 1% & the 99% has increased by over 15% They now possess more then 50% of the planet total wealth !
That's very unhealthy & dangerous
At that rate Capitalism will soon create a world of slaves where the 1% , the 0.1% or 0.01% will control most of the world's wealth rendering the rest of the world population... useless
And has more than 2 and a half millions citizens in jail, more than any country in the World. It only show that either US is a criminals` country or a very opressive country
He should land in jail for his troublemaking activities.
It’s no business with democracy,HONGKONG young people is unwilling to melt with greater china which is more and more leading the emerging market nations.
Hongkong people need to look forward ,not trapped in old prosperous days .
Democracy is never done, it's always a continuing struggle as anyone can see now in US. A limited form of freedom is the goal that needs to always be pursued. SCMP has excellent reporting as usual. Thank you
19 full democracies in the world all have less than 100 million pop. they are not race or religion melting pots and a high % of the pop are educated and participate in elections. The political situation in the US is dysfunctional and has been for decades. We can vote, but don't (50% in 16)and run our mouth whenever we want but it doesn't change the fact that we are a dysfunctional society. This guy wants China to be a democracy?
@@Realist-sh3dg For China to become a democracy will take at least one more generation. HK is ready for it now as we in the usa will get a chance to renew our democracy in 2020. My $$ is on Andrew Yang because of his intelligence and 21st century mindset. Now you may be correct that humanity is too dysfunctional as seen by what we are doing to this planet. We have no other choice but to keep trying our best to promote less greed and ignorance ☮
@@thinkabout602, For China to become a democracy will take at least one more generation, What makes you think the Chinese or HK want a democracy? The protesters look to be mostly H.S. kids running amok with signs in English, outsiders are guessing. I didn't say humanity was dysfunctional, US society was dysfunctional. Andrew Yang because of his intelligence. So he'll do what exactly, tell democrats what they want to hear. The US is a one party government that represents 10% of the people or less.IMO
@@Realist-sh3dg you are sadly misinformed and I won't be the one who tries to persuade you otherwise
@@Realist-sh3dg The theory of democracy is beautiful. So was the Utopian communist state. But like you said, look at the American implementation. The electoral college. Democracy works only if every voter spends time to study the issue before voting on it. It's a lot of time consumed being such a voter, how will one bring bread to the table?
Democracy don't have race or nation. We must redefine our understanding on Democracy that it not was under the influence of America or Western countries. But we must understand that every nation deserves a democratic government even China.
" Singapore doing well because it's an independent country , hk need to be independent to keep on prosperous, we suggest handover to China then grant a lease to British for 50 years" , this guy is weird.
This guy has a warped sense of democracy.
Leaving aside arguments whether democracy or communism is a better system, what is the intention of UK and China in 1997? Was there an express clause that the Basic Law shall continue after 2047? To convince China that the Basic Law will benefit Hong Kong and China after 2047, Hong Kong must try its utmost best show it can work together with China. If there are breaches of the Basic Law by China before 2047, which I believe there were, there must be legal avenues for redress. To accelerate mob violence on the streets will not convince China to allow the Basic Law to remain but to repeal it in 2047 otherwise it will set a bad example for other Chinese cities to follow ie. Use prolonged force to get what is desired. The current turmoil only gives more reasons to interfere in HK and even more tendency to streamline HK. Let calmness prevail and doors for dialogue be open.
The problem is US could not wait any more, the trade war going on between US and China and the dedollarization around the World are forcing US to destabilize any financial center not under their control. But the elite of HK could waited, so there must be some fight behind the door between HK pro democracy elite and US suporters.
@@ifigeniaa What proof do you have of your conspiracy theory of US manipulation?
Why he didn't fight for democracy during the British rule if democracy is like oxygen to him.
Johnny Tang I mean cuz the British built the whole place???
This Mr.Lee is so proud of his Hong Kong Foot..!!!
He is from a different world. A piece of old furniture made during colonial time. English man with Chinese features. Person like him have to be blamed for misleading younger generation and the unrest in Hong Kong.
Responsible democracy. Is there a distinct difference between individual rights and the rights of the community at large?
WK Chan well said!
A huge difference.
WK Chan Are you really that dumb?
@@kevincramer1318: A dumb guy alway thinking other people dumb !
The "community at large" is a composition of individual human beings. It's not some cloud floating above actual human beings. The very purpose of the state is to protect individual's rights to govern their own lives. Democratic process is a way of resolving disputes and taking collective decisions on issues that involve us all.
Martin was.speculating.that Deng.wanted.China to be western style.democracy. Deng had openly stated that China.will practise Socialism with chinese characteristics.which is what China has been practising for.40 years. Martin should.compare the livelihood of Chinese with India which is the biggst democracy in the world. The per.capita of chinese is 5x of India although both were almost equal 40 years ago.
Sorry, HK GDP had been double from 1997 (US$177.4 billion) to 2018 ( US$363. 03 billion). You are too confident to democracy.
Imagine the bitterness and resentment when a whole generation of Hong Kongers realized they had no place in "leading" China into the future.
China should never adopt a Western type, specifically American type, multi-party Democracy. Just take a look at Taiwan especially the past 20 years, will be enough to convince you. You will end up only with opportunistic politicians of all shapes sizes, promoting themselves, by hook by crook, to get elected, and get power, followed by jobs, benefits for themselves relatives friends supporters. In the end, the country suffers so are ordinary people. On the other hand by 2035, when China has attained a moderately prosperous society, educated knowledgeable, it's military forces strong, at least in the ECS & SCS, confident yet humble. Perhaps then China can have a referendum with just one simple question, "Do you still want CCP to lead China" yes or no
Meritocracy and democracy can be combined. It is not one or the other.
Thank you Martin Lee, Hong kong people call you the father of democracy for the hong kong people. Your great contribution to the HK society is greatly appreciated. Hong Kong is very lucky to have you.
Hong Kong going independent would ruin Hong Kong economy
China has already practiced democracy as per Chinese Characteristics with the exception of a one-party state which China needs to maintain, otherwise there will be disunity, chaos and China would not be what it is today. China has adopted the so called Communist Party of China simply for the purpose of uniting this vast nation with almost 1.4 billion people and having 56 ethnic groups. Just look at Russia. Democracy had resulted in the breakaway and formation of countless nations with wars, chaos, killings, genocide and weakening the USSR itself. Martin Lee simply did not evaluate and analyse that democracy cannot be implemented throughout the world solely based on the so called "American" or Western democracy, just like human rights issue and criteria.
Did he ask for democracy before 1997?
Yes he did in fact en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Hong_Kong_electoral_reform
I lived in China for many years and currently in a democratic country . Democracy has lots of shortcomings too. I don’t think democracy works better in China. At least in a short time period, socialism is better. Don’t judge if you haven’t lived there
The big diference, in China, the government control the press, in democratic countries, the 1% control the government and the press.
ifigeniaa totally agree.
It was wise for Teng not to follow the path of Soviet communism in the 80s. It was also wise for Trang’s successors not to follow the Western democracy blindly. Current conditions in the West, such as the Yellow Vest protest, shows that the democratic system is coming to an end. There is no perfect government system, the leaders of a country should be wise enough to select whatever is best to suit her country. China is wise to select capitalism for her economic and totalitarian for politics.
China system is not totally totalitarians. To reach the top inner circle, aspirants have to go through many levels of leadership, from village, township, city to demonstrate his ability to govern and improve livelihood. The intensive internship makes what Xi Jinping is today.
China was completely divorced from Soviet Communism since Mao started the Great Leap Forward which received lots of criticism from the USSR.
unilateral definition of democracy is the biggest humiliation to democracy. Don’t try apply your system to others.
Yeah same to you. Don't try to apply your autocratic system to those who don't want it you blind hypocrite. The economy is the only thing your country has on its side. Once that's gone, you'll truly come to realize that you have nothing else to show for yourselves.
Wow I see alot of 50cent army here!
@Dark of the knight yeah its pretty sad tbh
@Dark of the knight Chinese love their country and unlike this gentleman in the video. A complete traitor.
Talk about brainwashed? Most of you are probably brainwashed by your own government so what's the difference? Are we not entitled to an opinion?
How come China has been so successful for the past 30 days while the American , being the most democratic country in the world is so poor . Can you help to solve my puzzle? Thx
This chap needs to be tried for treason.
People do not get it. If you are always indebted, there is no freedom. No debts=freedom. Then with freedom follows responsibility.
A spirit is admirable. But also be rational. If you feel you can stand on your own in the world, do it only with certainty.
unfortunately hk is bad example now，China is catching up with own way，hk is hard to maintain their own economic in next 27 years。
Dan Zhang illegal way with money laundering
@@brandonma9439 You're so ignorant and arrogant.
This guy just have so many misconceptions about Lee Kuan Yew and Singapore. Lee Kuan Yew didn't even wish for an independence for Singapore in the first place. Besides, saying Singapore is an ethnic Chinese country is wrong and unfair. Singapore is a multicultural nation, not one race has superiority than others.
Piro UwU yes Singapore had to leave Malaysia because of economical and political disputes. In another words Malaysia chose to let go of Singapore. That’s how be get our independence
Martin Lee is a law man but not a marketing man so his point of view is so limited and low.
At least he should know HK is a SAR of China, is it written in the law?
Jimmy Choo, ...You need the idea -- that you are a free man and your government should respect your basic rights -- to be "sold" to you, in some cute marketing pitch?
Jeez !!
@@user-kn7xc9of1f "At least he should know that HK is a SAR of China,..."
Yeah. What's the "A" in "S.A.R." stand for again? "AUTONOMOUS"?!?
Martin Lee should know that the British is not negotiating from a position of strength.
The lease for New Territories was going to expire in July, 1997 and New Territories makes up 86.2% of Hong Kong land. Without the New Territories, Hong Kong would not be able sustain 6.5+ million Hong Kees after 1997 and the British did not want 6.5+ million Hong Kees to seek the right of abode in UK.
The only mistake mainland China made was to grant 1C2S status to Hong Kong for 50 years.
Why 50 years ? They should have only granted Hong Kong 25 years at the most ! 25 years would be more than enough for those Hong Kees who chose not to stay to migrate out.
You're wrong Mr. Lee, there're laws in every countries in the world. When you exercise your rights with protest and riots no countries will allow it. China with 1.4 billion population with 56 ethnic culture and language can live work and play why not hk. You as a lawyer should have led hkners to pursue mutual benefits with China after 97. Instead you led the younger generation into protest. Ren Lao bu zhuan, ciao huai zi sun.
Democracy may not be the most efficient political system but it provides political party alternation. Because even the greatest leader cannot rule forever, and therefore how can you guarantee their successors will be as great if not better.
Without democracy, the cost of overturning a bad government is just too great.
I don’t think this guy really knows HK that well
Democracy so over rated
I agree with the gentleman. Democracy will win in the end, because people want FREEDOM.
China is still communist. but do u think china people have no freedom at all? what type of freedom are you referring to? like the US?
@@mpdmpd8118 I can say: "President Trump is a lunatic, and US trade policy is wrong." Those are my beliefs.
Can you openly criticize the Chinese Communist Party? No, you cannot. You are afraid to do that, because you can face consequences. You do not enjoy FREEDOM like I do. I feel sorry for you. HK citizens do not want to live under a Communist Party-dictatorial state.
If you disagree, tell me why I am wrong. I welcome OPEN and FREE debate.
*Whether democracy arrives in China or not, it is no reason for Martin Lee to be a cry baby to foreigners! Were HK people happy under British Rule? If they were, then they must think it was better to be slaves to foreign power than a master in their own country! They should follow their former masters to their home country and remain second class citizens (if so permitted). There is no reason to remain in the country he now appears to despise! Pleading his case to an imperialist power is surely both an act of supreme cowardice and betrayal!*
To all folks over here who talked about Singapore:
Singapore has democracy. YES. We even forced Lee Kuan Yew to reverse course on public policy in 1984 (Graduate Mothers Scheme) and 2011 (immigration and he had to resign from Cabinet as Minister Mentor).
Who said democracy is all bad? 😉
But that Hong Kong land belongs to China, so anyone who did not want to live under China should have asked the British to take them somewhere else since it was administered by the British until 1997 and the land had to be returned back to China. Nobody did mention anything to the British. That was the tragedy.