@@illyapetrov6092 Zenith is shit !? you are properly an ignoramus, rolex can't create any watch movement ! buy to other watch maker like Zenith, Rolex quality is a legend for the purist !
@@illyapetrov6092 Wrong, Rolex is a shit brand. They DO make quality watches, and not even fake rolex can compete with them. However, with just the same model OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER. You know whats even better? They started to reduce the stocks of the watches so they can be "RARE". This makes them manipulating the market. But Rolex is in fact, one of THE MOST COMMON WATCH in the world. Rolex watches are like perfect clones, they do stuff but they are nothing special of a watch other than their quality. And their justification is "ETERNAL DESIGN", which is literally boring now. Now, Rolex are just only about its marketing. No more innovation And most of the owners are a joke, like Paul brothers. Yes, there are great Rolex owners out there, but Rolex is a joke and its purpose is mostly to make people look PIMP. I never said anything about Zenith, I only say things about Rolex. Tissot is still a better brand than Rolex btw.
Amazing as always! I have been in love with the El Primero for as long as I remember so it takes the win here. Daytona is a horological superstar but it never ignited any emotions in me and leaves me cold.
The Zenith is the classier-looking, lower-key watch. It's the kind of watch for someone who doesn't want to attract attention...except that of another watch aficionado.
@@gregalonzo747 I was talking historically, not modern. read up on the 13ZN movement, it’s a legend. Longines is dead as a high-end brand these days…now the El Primero and speedmaster rule.
@@golfinguru11, I understood what you meant. My grandfather was into Longine. He swore by them. I am more into modern pieces. I also like more cutting edge from some of the independents. Perhaps my next purchase will be Ming. As for the Speedmaster, I prefer more water resistance and a screw down crown. I once got caught in a nasty and had problems with water getting into the dial. It was a reputable brand but only 50 meters of water resistance and no screw down crown. I do like the Omega Seamaster. Great beater watch. 😀
Watching the video seems that Daytona wins clearly the comparison but there's a few things I have to say. - It's absolutely false that Zenith never changed the movement since 1969. First of all we have to say that Zenith fell in a bad crisis so The El Primero movement were almost out of production from 1972/74 to 1989. But also they actually changed it, in fact they do a lot of little changes in order to improve the reliability. The manufacturing of the coloumn wheel is now different from the past to make the actioning of the chronography softer. Zenith also creates complications on the El Primero basis, creating complete calendars, moonphases and tourbillion, Rolex NEVER did anyone of these things. Moreover The Zenith Have produced a Materpiece such as the Stricking 10th which is the first chrono able to measure a 10th of a second, and even if is a limited edition it costs actually a half of the Daytona but damn, it's way better. And that's for sure an innovativa watch with a movement that is able to exploit all the chronographic possibilities deriving from the 36000vph. Daytona 16520 is a myth, no doubt about it, but becouse of his movement. And is absolutely false that they changed the 50% of the movement, they just changed the reversing wheel and downgrade the vph becouse in this way it would become easier to work with such a movement for rolex's techinics. The 4130 is a great caliber but the the vertical graft is not at all an advantage, in fact while the chrono is going an orizzontal graft have less frictions. The arcitecture of the caliber, the finitures and the heritage are by far for the zenith. (The Zenith is also betterlooking tome).
Thank you sir for the explanation. I would have eaten anything that a Watchfinder guy tells me, with a spoon. I guess he's a bit biased and his bias seeps through this video. And yes, Zenith is much more beautiful watch. Anybody with a functioning pair of eyes can see this.
@ricky gervais Zenith are not shit. If they were, Rolex would never have chosen to use their movements in the first place. Zenith have also improved the El Primero over time. I like Rolex and the Daytona but I'll take an El Primero over it any day.
Learn something about watches, then listen to owner of mb&f watches what he says about rolex and then come back and throw zenith in trash can and bove to rolex you uninfomed human being.
@Antonio Rackman Saydam A lange, patek, blancpai are al more monry than rolex, but rolex mechanism is more tougher than all those mentioned, you know about watches very very litle, by.
@Antonio Rackman Saydam you know little about watches if you say so. Yes rolex has become a symbol but it never left the watch enthusiast appreciations since rolex watches have always been masterfully crafted and designed with great mechanisms and movments. You can buy a fully blinged out Rolex and this will be a statement of wealth or you can buy a rolex explorer/ oyster perpetual and be under the radar and still appreciate the high craftsmanship of these watches.
Correct, you ask your average rolex wearer about their watch they know zero about it or watches in general.. as good as a rolex is their owner demographic isnt good, in fact it really irritates rolex. One things for sure about a zenith, you can almost guarantee its owners knows a thing or two about a watch.
@@artyom-ei2mf I mean, to an extent the make generally spotless watches, but that's not through amazing craftsmanship, its through rigorous and expensive Q and A. They may be robust, but few would state that Rolex of a brand of finer horology, they have no master complications no haute horlogerie, nothing to satisfy higher levels of watchmaking. Their movements are robustly designed, with free sprung balances and a-magnetic components but so are Hamilton watches nowadays. The zenith in comparison, has an aesthetically beautiful lateral clutch column wheel chrono with a high beat rate. Finished as respectably as the Rolex for much much less. Zenith also has tourbillon versions, 1/10 and 1/100 of a second chronographs, uses advanced materials like Rolex does and yet sells most of them under the price of a Daytona. Rolex make good robust watches, but so do sinn et al at a a much better price. Rolex make decent movements, but they pale in comparison to blancpain 1315, UN 118, el primero 21, GO 36 etc and yet all these movements are in watches far cheaper than their Rolex counterparts. Rolex do make good watches, but anyone interested in horology, will buy a watch from a brand that is cheaper and yet better crafted. Anyone looking for a tool watch will buy a sinn with more durability and a cheaper price. The Rolex brand has become such that its watches dont make sense to anyone actually valuing horology, only to those valuing the brand. Unfortunately, that means when discussing Rolex 'craftsmanship' theres always something much better at a cheaper price.
The Daytona somehow has odd proportions, a bit clunky. Also, this particular dial looks funny, the subdials always remind me of bullets loaded into a six-shot revolver. The Zenith looks elegant and refined. Regarding the movement, I think Zenith will keep the El Primero Classic as is because they now have the Defy Lab El Primero 21 with the 50Hz chrono as new technology.
A few of inaccuracies in this video. Firstly, the Zenith El Primero working prototypes were actually publicised well before the Heuer Calibre 11 (which is an inferior movement to the El Primero)..I don't think there is a clear winner (don't forget Seiko, too).. Also, the 36,000 beat rate used special lubricants.. The increased servicing interval is an old wives tale. Rolex just wanted to use their own lubricants for servicing. Many watch makers state that the El Primero does not exhibit more wear and tear than slower movements. In fact, it is a very robust movement at the default high beat rate. Lastly, the Zenith El Primero has had MANY modifications since the original, including silicon escapement wheel, escapement lever, and column wheel, along with other winding efficiencies and accuracy + robustness centric improvements. The narrator comes across as either biased towards Heuer/Rolex or just plain ignorant of the details of the El Primero.
Los dos movimientos son creación de Zenith , en el Rolex se modifico para bajar alternancias 28.800 y Zenith se quedo con sus 36.000 . En cuanto al engrase Rolex decidió poner sus propios aceites y Zentih se queda con aceites normales para sus especificación de movimiento (no se hace un engrase especial por tener 36.000 alternancias). La recomendaciones de Zenith para las revisiones de este movimiento son iguales que los demás movimientos que no tengan 36.000 alternancias , 4 años . El escape de Silicio implantado por Zenith en este movimiento en un gran paso adelante ya que por las características de este material (mas ligero , mas estable a los cambios de temperatura y menos desgaste al rozamiento) lo hace mucho mas preciso . En definitiva tanto el Zenith El Primero como el Rolex Daytona son piezas muy importantes en el mundo de la relojería y ya depende del gusto personal para decidirse que pieza comprar.
I wouldnt call this guy ignorant. He does awesome videos. He probably was sponsored... And yes, I forgot to mention in my comments above that Zenith announced their watch first!
@@almeladze they're not awesome videos if what he's saying is false and inaccurate. Remember watchfinder sell watches and as such certain biases come into play. The zenith is far more interesting that the Daytona
yes there is a clear winner! it's el primero! who's even heard of those other movements? everyone knows el primero. if that's not victory, i don't know what is LMAO
Rolex = best watches, highest quality and constant development and improvement. Zenith= same movement in diferent rainbowish- queerish cases, look at back of zenith it looks like tissot a garbage.
@@jasonlee-fp9vs Rolex was using their movement far ago but rolex is all in house hand finished now, and every minute triyng to improuve everithyng and for that reason rolex is the best. Zenith is a piece of shit. Only beter quality are dubuis, lange, vacheron, bovet, and dufour, journe, smith.
Hi and thanks a lot for your video. As always it's great! What is your equipment to record your videos, especially for macro rushs? Thank you for your reply. Best regards.
To have one to sell, the Daytona (any version as long as it is in steel) To actually own and wear, the Zenith for me, and pocket the difference to buy another watch!. However few points if I may. The lateral clutch of both of these chronographs has a bigger effect than the mere quality feel of the pushers, more importantly it impacts on the rate (accuracy) of the movement when the chronograph is running. That is why Zenith warns to not leave the chronograph running all the time. The reviewer glossed over that bit! The vertical clutch mechanism (used in the 4130) is not a Rolex invention. It was copied from the Frederic Piquet/Blancpain cal. 1185- the worlds smallest flattest chronograph movement. This high end design can run its chronograph all day long with out affecting the time keeping of the watch. The El Primero movement was purchased in by Rolex as they only had in house production of simple movements and perhaps lacked the desire to invest and develop their own chronograph at the time. However the introduction of the cal.4130 was a necessity, as the Zenith CEO announced Zenith would no longer supply Rolex or anyone else (as it needed all of its own production for their own brand development).
I didn't know there were so many differences, but on pure aesthetics, I like the Zenith better. The Daytona has always struck me as "Swatch-looking". Even in the metal, they generally seem boring to me. For the money, there are a lot of other Chrono's I would get. Thanks as always for a great and very informative video.
Like so many others, The El Primero invokes an emotional reaction while the Daytona leaves me a little wanting. I know the Daytona is technically superior, but it just leaves me cold. I have to go with the El Primero and I am a movement snob.
Interesting point of view. I think it's also important to consider the design and purpose of both pieces. Rolex watches are designed as tool pieces. They are meant to be worn by the active sportsman, on the racetrack, and into adverse conditions. While Zenith would likely argue the El Primero offers the same sportiness, I think most watch enthusiasts see the piece differently. The design is bolder in styling but more delicate in appearance with a hint of dress watch appeal. The updated movement in the Rolex jives with the brands heritage; allowing for more practical creature comforts in the field. Surely, the sportsman is going to be more interested in accuracy and longevity than beats per minute. But, what about the El Primero? It seems to me one buys an El Primero because of the history, the iconic design, the class of the piece -- and with that one wants to feel the honest heritage of the watch. So, the "if it's don't broke" saying has some merit. Updating the movement would do little to change the heart of the piece, in fact it might detract from it. Nor would it dissuade Rolex buyers from the Daytona or Zenith buyers from the El Primero. They may have shared a movement but these are very different pieces, meant for different buyers, and truly more dissimilar than alike. I appreciate both for what they are, as they are, and hope both remain on their own path rather than callously middling with the collective like so many other brands.
so clearly you dont know about Zenith. they have one of the toughest durability test in the whole swiss watch industry. Tests with extreme circumstances and probably the most durable watch out there. Rolex is clearly a more sensitive piece compared to Zenith (not worse) because Zenith is actually really built for extreme conditions. Do some research on it and you'll be surprised.
Why use watches as investments unless you always flip them. No one will come away with big capital gains. Invest in a S&P 500 ETF. I laugh at the idea Rolex as an investment to make money
Movement in the Rolex is nicer but on the whole I wouldn't say Zenith is resting on it's laurels. They have designed a couple new movements pushing by anything most of the industry is doing.
Still catching up on all the Watchfinder & Co. videos, but they never disappoint. Insightful and instructive, made by people who care about what they do. Like viewing a miniature Simon Schama documentary.
Again amazing video. I think the 4130 fits the Rolex better. Rolex is in my opinion the luxury watch brand that makes movements simpler and more efficient instead of more complicated and difficult. But i like the 4030 movement it just does not fit how Rolex Makes their movements in my opinion
Hi Chaps - Great review and very educational if you are a horoIogist. I would like a review on the Zenith Type 20 Annual Calendar Pilot Montre d'Aéronef which looking at Zenith's website appears to have been discontinued
Zenith were pioneers! Rolex bought El Primero movements for their Daytonas back in the day. El Primero is still one of the most precise chronograph movements normal money can buy! Zenith wins every time!
Sorry but zenith el primero was the first mechanical watch which I saw and fell in love with and it's the only reason why my passion for mechanical watch increased 10 times
I just picked up a Zenith Pilot Cronometro running an El Primero Caliber 405B with flyback feature. I AM an engineer, so I sprung for the watch with the richest engineering history with regards to movement design. I've owned this watch for a short time now, and I am amazed at A: how accurate the El Primero is, and B: how aesthetically satisfying the caliber 405B is to look at. It's like wearing a miniature mechanical marvel on your wrist. I saw another commenter here talk about how it's a bit like owning a classic car. I couldn't agree more.
Zenith. If they thought there was a need to change, they’d change. But the El Primero is easily one of the greatest watch movements of all time. It’s one of the very few - in fact I can think of no other - that is still with us from before the quartz crisis. And no one is happier than me that it’s still with us. It’s the watch I will always want to own.
I think Zenith has made a serious contribution towards horology with the Zenith Defy Lab. I'd like to see if they could create a chronograph using this same movement.
@@watchfinder Better to see brands creating it and filtering it down slowly, rather than Rolex simply copying others and proclaiming it's some sort of miracle invention by them... only to hold off from putting into their 'affordable' lines for a decade because they care more about brand image than horology.
I bought a Zenith El Primero De Luca nearly 21 years ago, have worn it almost every day since and love everything about it. The feel of the action of the start/stop pusher is unbelievably mechanical and satisfying - especially compared with my Omega Speedmaster Mark 40 Cosmos and a 7750 Bulova I have. The designs in Rainbow Flyback form are incredible, but not all El Primero examples work for me. However, the Daytona just doesn't do it for me at all (unless it's the Paul Newman variant, but who can afford one of those !) Zenith score on history, style and class. And for being still probably the best automatic chronograph you can buy regardless of price. And it's not a Rolex - don't follow the herd, don't be a sucker for the marketing, buy something that's genuinely great, not because some marketing hype tells you it's great. Zenith every time for me !
Both watches are great. Watchfinder does the best reviews. I’m sure Zenith has made incremental changes but they haven’t done drastic changes. In regards to which is better, that’s a matter of personal taste. Why can’t you love both?
Please do a video about the Lange 1. It’s a watch that I haven’t been able to find enough info about on RUclips, and your extremely informative videos and detailed macro shots would surely rectify that completely.
I think the El Primero is an incredibly looking watch, it also ticks a lot of boxes for me personally - large sunburst subdials with different colors (especially the blue), hi-beat, display caseback, modest size, and price. Meanwhile, this particular Rolex, with the metal bezel and tachymeter scale, seems a bit dated in my view, in comparison to the other Daytonas. Although no one would argue with the luxury status of a Rolex, the Zenith also announces to the WIS community that you are one of them, a wristwatch guy who knows what he is doing.
I own the El Primero shown (1969), and it's a great watch. The only qualms I have are (1) it's a tad small, and (2) it doesn't hack. Using a historic movement is great, but hacking is common these days. They need to modernize. But that dial is Fantastic. With that said, I'd swap it for the modern ceramic Daytona in a heartbeat.
The Zenith El Primero actually did beat Heuer Leonidas and Breitling to the post, by few months, back in 1969. It was Jack Heuer who managed to convince the world press at Basel, that his cal.11 in Carrera was first, purely because he had 15 watches with cal.11 on his stand .... whilst the Zenith had on their stand only one El Primero. That said, I had Carrera 1158 with cal.11 inside, that I bought in 1971. I had worn the watch daily for 4 years and then stored it for 40 years, wound it perhaps 10x during that period and when I took it out of safe, prior to selling it, it was accurate to +3 /-8 seconds in 5 positions, with the beat error between 0.2 and 0.4 ms. So Jack Heuer must have done something right.
Look at it this way ... Rolex used Zentith El Primero movements in their Daytona ! There was never any Zenith watch, that would use a Rolex movement ! The fact is, that until 2004, there was no Rolex in-house movement in existence. All Rolex movements were bought in from Lemania (Swatch), ETA (Swatch), Zenith and most importantly ... AEGLER. Just like Breitling did with KELEK? Rolex, has bought their main movement supplier AEGLER, in 2004. No doubt Rolex is a better organised outfit than Zenith. After all, they spent fortune on advertising and sponsorship. Plus .... as the non profit making, registered charity organisation (Rolex pay very little tax), they can afford glossy brochures, TV advertising, sponsorships of sports events etc. Zenith in the mean time, like Hublot and Heuer, have been acquired by LVMH group .... so hopefully, their image will improve with time. As far as Rolex (and Swiss) "handmade"? is concerned .. translate it as CNC machine made and hand finished. Everyone is buying bits anx pieces from ETA and hand finishes them (even Patek Philipps). With regards to prices and residual value? Only a few models in the range of Rolex stainless steel sports watches (Daytona included), hold their vakue. Buy the bi-metal, or 18ct gold Daytona, or GMT Master . ... and it will lose value faster than equivalent Zenith El Primero models.
That’s a tough call but to me, Zenith wins...if talking about a pure chronograph. I own a chronograph similarly as I own some subs...I don’t use the chronograph functionality (and I don’t dive). But I chose the Zenith because it has the date complication and the 36,000vph (Daytona 28,000)...so, the Zenith having the higher frequency is more accurate, able to measure 1/10 of second versus the 1/8 of a 28,000 vph movement (Daytona). Again, does it matter, no. Why? Because I’m not measuring time on a race track. But because I’m looking at the Zenith El Primero to fill my horological want of a chronograph, it scratches that itch with its heritage and the see through case back so I can admire it all. I’m not saying the one is better than the other, just that I’m looking for something specific and have my checklist. That being said, one day I want a platinum Daytona. Why? Because it’s a bad ass time piece 😃.
WatchFinder I like your way for seeing things but you are wrong completely Zenith and Rolex apply differently the same movement. Rolex wanted to simplify the movement for a simple maintenance ,vertical clach for sturdiness to shocks and not for accuracy purposes like you say...Zenith version to that movement is for accuracy purposes, Zenith movement is for much more high horology and hence more complexity is needed for controling intervals in much high frequency, there is no unnecessarly screws like you said, and Zenith know about horology much more than Rolex therefor they understand what efficiency is all about about the ridiculous history of Rolex Daytona....it all begin with Paul Newman and not with the watch himself, basically Rolex Daytona is a fashion watch with a great PR
While waiting for my wife's bracelet to be shortened at a high end watch shop in Geneva last week I asked the watchmaker who he thought made the best movements since he worked on them all . His response was that there were many good movements. He specifically mentioned Zenith and Omega as well as several high end brands. However, Rolex didn't get a mention. Interesting?
Zenith el primero lost by a nose to caliber 11(Breitling - Heuer - project 99) but both lost by a mile to the caliber 6139 released / available in stores by February 1969 (Japan Only). Seiko the true first automatic chronograph.
I love both, and hope to add both to my stable. But I have say that my first chrono is likely to be the El Primero 1969. I’ve been eyeballing it for a couple years and am close to pulling the trigger.
Why change something that is part of history / heritage and has proven a solid track record . No matter what Rolex does . Bottom line is that Zenith was/is the pioneer of chronographs .
A. Anderson with that logic we would all be driving Model T’s and there would be no telephone etc etc. You take what exists and make it better. That is how the world works
Drunken Master II: Sorry, but the Seiko 6139 chrono that came out in 1969 is no match for the El Primero in terms of quality, accuracy, robustness and appearance, and even features (if you consider the triple date variant of the zenith El Primero that came out in 1969, having small timed seconds and a chrono hour register). The vertical clutch/column wheel approach was also copied from the Swiss. While they suffer from a few minor technical deficiencies, horizontal clutch column wheel movements are much more beautiful.
this reminds me of an old zenith tv company joke about a person asking for a raise. as we all know there slogan is - the quality goes in b 4 the name gos on. A person asked for a promotion and a new name plate on her door and she seemed to not be getting it so it seemed to them to her. When asking why to her male boss he said the quality goes in b 4 the name goes on.
The 1st time I realized that Zenith made watches was in the early 1970s after the "Museum Watch" was released under the name MOVADO, and at the bottom of the dial it said, "Swiss made by Zenith." I never forgot that. I was a teenage boy in NY trying to fashionably learn my way around the block and learn social skills and I couldn't help but notice that most men who were fashionably "Cool" wore either the Museum Watch or a Cartier Tank. Thank God the dial of the Cartier didn't say, "Swiss Made by Whirlpool;" my head would've exploded! Many of the large government contractors started as watchmakers. Watchmaking may be the 1st true high technological advancement that led humans to make gyros that guided rockets, aircraft components, etc. Engineering the wristwatch watch may have been the beginning of technological and scientific advancements that led us to create the 1st computer as numbers and movements like watches ultimately led us to fly rockets in space!. Watchmaking, the 1st high technology.
@@tonyleavitt1730 long ago there was a money reward for making an accurate time piece as it was needed fro making longitude calculations as everything depends on time at greenwich england time zome 1. contest won eventually. England had 2 accurate timepieces one at england one on hms bounty found on pitcairn island still working 40 years later.. roling of ship and sun dial flip was inaccurate for most time pieces.. unaware of zenith and watches like bell and howell and baum folders...during war companies made what they could.. Lockheed made half of boeing b 17 bombers in burbank ca...
Objectively the Zenith, financially speaking Rolex keeps the value better thus people will understand that you are a smart investor, and that impression is important in a business setting.
While Rolex was using Zenith's movments, Zenith was spending it's time developing their one from scratch and with the ability to beat at 36000BPH was does this tell?..... Why wasn't Rolex building their one heritage as well?
Fantastic comparison... however, a minor detail regarding which was actually "el primero"... the Seiko c.6139 was available for purchase as a JDM watch at least a month before the c.11, and it was 100% in-house not built/engineered with a group of companies as the El Primero and c.11 were (impressive)... as to your question, as a brand, yes Zenith has been (sadly) running around in circles, but there is a lot more to the story regarding the Hi-Beat that the El Primero is and that the Rolex is not. Historically the El Primero is easily more important, but if it was a Daytona I would want, and couldn't get a Manual Wound Daytona, the El Primero version is the one I'd want exactly for the reasons you mention. In other words, one needs both in their collection :)
Can you make a video about the gyrotourbillon movement and why it exists if a 'normal' tourbillon movement already cancels out the effects of gravity on all the 6 points.
I like the El Primero, as the movement and case are from the same house, however so with the Cal 4130 is the Rolex. Both stunning watches, each will find its place in the individual watch lover's heart. For me it's the Zenith, the larger sub-dials and Date just about swings it for me!
i had the opportunity to try on the wrist the one zenith el primero similar to this one on the video and it is amazing. its light, is gorgeous, well made, complex and simple and it has the ability to make you feel special. But then... Every time i look to the daytona I feel surronded by mystery and a magical force that makes me want it and wait for the extra money to have it. I love the existence of both but the daytona is not the one that makes me feel speacial but the one that reminds you that you are unique , and for reason i would choose the rolex.
Dan, Check out the beautiful, no-date El Primero "Heritage" that my cousin owns or my own El Primero "De Luca," with screw-down pushers and an unobtrusive, refined date at the 4:30 mark.
I'll take a counter view here. I do not think that Zenith is running around in circles when it keeps sticking to the El Primero. I think its a clear message - The El Primero can still hold its own in a sea of newly developed movements. In many ways, this is similar to what Omega is doing with the vaunted Speedmaster caliber 1861 (I bet you expected that comparison!), and IWC is doing with the 7750 (even though they have a slew of new generation in-house movements). However, what probably caused a lot of cognitive dissonance in Zenith's messaging was the strategy adopted by CEO Thierry Nataf - crazy open worked dials and all. When Jean- Frédéric Dufour took over as CEO, he undid the Nataf era mess and revived the brand by going back to the roots with the same message - El Primero is still amongst the best. Ironically, Jean- Frédéric Dufour is now running Rolex!
I purchased a new watch about a month ago. I was debating between the Rolex SS Sub and the Zenith El Primero. I had been looking at the Zenith for about two years and really fell in love with it, but ultimately went with the Sub. That being said, the Zenith will eventually make its way into my stable!
Fantastic review as always! As much as Zenith has the history and pedigree, Rolex has carved an entire industry all its own. It created “ necessary luxury”. An aspirational watch for both the general public and WIS collectors alike. It has also become the masters of simplicity and robustness that no one is able to match in quality and reliability. It arrived much later to the watch game and has practically eaten everybody else’s lunch.
Watch Aficionado not necessarily, I know plenty of WIS and old money that have Rolexes. For many of us, Rolex was the beginning of the “ watch trip” and some how, we all come back to Rolex . And believe me, I had every other Haute horology brand.
This guy does not do reviews, he tells a story. I don’t need a book or a kindle. Give me a cup of tea and you tube connected to watchfinder and I’m happy.
the daytona is a great watch but its design is so common nowadays ( the external tachymeter and over all size)whereas the zenith has a much more elegant and beautiful design .
Wich one do i like more? Now, that's a tricky question. I always liked the Daytona, used to have one but once on the wrist i coudn't love it, there was no connection with the watch, i prefer the older and more wiser submariners and Seadweller, especially the 16660. So if i have to make a choice it will be the Zenith, still can't believe i write this but it is true.
Brilliant Information , Did I miss this channel or over see it ????? simply go for Rolex for their continuous pursuit for quality and research , If Price is not a factor ???
We know you want more watches…. click here: linktr.ee/watchfinder
The Zenith looks much more interesting to be honest.
Harvey Mushman It has the date, so it is better, the host must be high
It has a date so it is beter!??
Hahahaha zenith is shit, rolex is all the way up, zenith is good but no match for rolex quality.
@@illyapetrov6092 Zenith is shit !? you are properly an ignoramus, rolex can't create any watch movement ! buy to other watch maker like Zenith, Rolex quality is a legend for the purist !
@@illyapetrov6092 Wrong, Rolex is a shit brand. They DO make quality watches, and not even fake rolex can compete with them. However, with just the same model OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER. You know whats even better? They started to reduce the stocks of the watches so they can be "RARE". This makes them manipulating the market. But Rolex is in fact, one of THE MOST COMMON WATCH in the world. Rolex watches are like perfect clones, they do stuff but they are nothing special of a watch other than their quality. And their justification is "ETERNAL DESIGN", which is literally boring now. Now, Rolex are just only about its marketing. No more innovation
And most of the owners are a joke, like Paul brothers. Yes, there are great Rolex owners out there, but Rolex is a joke and its purpose is mostly to make people look PIMP. I never said anything about Zenith, I only say things about Rolex. Tissot is still a better brand than Rolex btw.
@@etiennek1 probably an ignoramus... theres no probably about it. Zenith is a masterpiece, rolex is always a wealth statement.
Amazing as always!
I have been in love with the El Primero for as long as I remember so it takes the win here. Daytona is a horological superstar but it never ignited any emotions in me and leaves me cold.
Watch Geek I totally know what you mean. Respect to both, but the El Primero is my pick.
It's great to have both to choose from!
Blue el primero with open heart thats my pick
As a collector Zenith by far my pick...
I agree!
The Zenith is much nicer in my view.
I also agree
Agree, very beautiful. But I am biased to leather straps.
@@MrGlewRUclipsChangedMyHandle ;((
I probably agree, but would never buy zenith over Daytona, even for a third of the price.
Yep, I would like both of these please. The Daytona to pass down to my son, the El Primero to be buried wearing.
I'll dig you up one week later and take the watch, then.
The Zenith is the classier-looking, lower-key watch. It's the kind of watch for someone who doesn't want to attract attention...except that of another watch aficionado.
Theo bro is that all tf you know how to say?
The Zenith El Primero is the King of Chronographs 😀
Amen! Once I started honing on my el primero, all other chronographs kind of died for me (except for a Lange Datograph)
I’d argue Longines is but that’s going way back
@@golfinguru11 I really don't know because I have no experience with Longines and my El Primero is the new model.
@@gregalonzo747 I was talking historically, not modern. read up on the 13ZN movement, it’s a legend. Longines is dead as a high-end brand these days…now the El Primero and speedmaster rule.
@@golfinguru11, I understood what you meant. My grandfather was into Longine. He swore by them. I am more into modern pieces. I also like more cutting edge from some of the independents. Perhaps my next purchase will be Ming. As for the Speedmaster, I prefer more water resistance and a screw down crown. I once got caught in a nasty and had problems with water getting into the dial. It was a reputable brand but only 50 meters of water resistance and no screw down crown. I do like the Omega Seamaster. Great beater watch. 😀
Watching the video seems that Daytona wins clearly the comparison but there's a few things I have to say.
- It's absolutely false that Zenith never changed the movement since 1969.
First of all we have to say that Zenith fell in a bad crisis so The El Primero movement were almost out of production from 1972/74 to 1989. But also they actually changed it, in fact they do a lot of little changes in order to improve the reliability. The manufacturing of the coloumn wheel is now different from the past to make the actioning of the chronography softer.
Zenith also creates complications on the El Primero basis, creating complete calendars, moonphases and tourbillion, Rolex NEVER did anyone of these things.
Moreover The Zenith Have produced a Materpiece such as the Stricking 10th which is the first chrono able to measure a 10th of a second, and even if is a limited edition it costs actually a half of the Daytona but damn, it's way better. And that's for sure an innovativa watch with a movement that is able to exploit all the chronographic possibilities deriving from the 36000vph.
Daytona 16520 is a myth, no doubt about it, but becouse of his movement. And is absolutely false that they changed the 50% of the movement, they just changed the reversing wheel and downgrade the vph becouse in this way it would become easier to work with such a movement for rolex's techinics.
The 4130 is a great caliber but the the vertical graft is not at all an advantage, in fact while the chrono is going an orizzontal graft have less frictions. The arcitecture of the caliber, the finitures and the heritage are by far for the zenith.
(The Zenith is also betterlooking tome).
Thank you sir for the explanation. I would have eaten anything that a Watchfinder guy tells me, with a spoon. I guess he's a bit biased and his bias seeps through this video. And yes, Zenith is much more beautiful watch. Anybody with a functioning pair of eyes can see this.
@ricky gervais Zenith are not shit. If they were, Rolex would never have chosen to use their movements in the first place. Zenith have also improved the El Primero over time. I like Rolex and the Daytona but I'll take an El Primero over it any day.
I feel that Zenith makes watches, whereas Rolex makes status symbols.
Learn something about watches, then listen to owner of mb&f watches what he says about rolex and then come back and throw zenith in trash can and bove to rolex you uninfomed human being.
@Antonio Rackman Saydam
A lange, patek, blancpai are al more monry than rolex, but rolex mechanism is more tougher than all those mentioned, you know about watches very very litle, by.
@Antonio Rackman Saydam you know little about watches if you say so. Yes rolex has become a symbol but it never left the watch enthusiast appreciations since rolex watches have always been masterfully crafted and designed with great mechanisms and movments. You can buy a fully blinged out Rolex and this will be a statement of wealth or you can buy a rolex explorer/ oyster perpetual and be under the radar and still appreciate the high craftsmanship of these watches.
Correct, you ask your average rolex wearer about their watch they know zero about it or watches in general.. as good as a rolex is their owner demographic isnt good, in fact it really irritates rolex. One things for sure about a zenith, you can almost guarantee its owners knows a thing or two about a watch.
@@artyom-ei2mf I mean, to an extent the make generally spotless watches, but that's not through amazing craftsmanship, its through rigorous and expensive Q and A.
They may be robust, but few would state that Rolex of a brand of finer horology, they have no master complications no haute horlogerie, nothing to satisfy higher levels of watchmaking.
Their movements are robustly designed, with free sprung balances and a-magnetic components but so are Hamilton watches nowadays.
The zenith in comparison, has an aesthetically beautiful lateral clutch column wheel chrono with a high beat rate. Finished as respectably as the Rolex for much much less.
Zenith also has tourbillon versions, 1/10 and 1/100 of a second chronographs, uses advanced materials like Rolex does and yet sells most of them under the price of a Daytona.
Rolex make good robust watches, but so do sinn et al at a a much better price. Rolex make decent movements, but they pale in comparison to blancpain 1315, UN 118, el primero 21, GO 36 etc and yet all these movements are in watches far cheaper than their Rolex counterparts.
Rolex do make good watches, but anyone interested in horology, will buy a watch from a brand that is cheaper and yet better crafted. Anyone looking for a tool watch will buy a sinn with more durability and a cheaper price.
The Rolex brand has become such that its watches dont make sense to anyone actually valuing horology, only to those valuing the brand. Unfortunately, that means when discussing Rolex 'craftsmanship' theres always something much better at a cheaper price.
The thing with the Zenith is: you get a superlative movement in a package that does not make you look like a used car salesman.
Used cars salesman! That's awesome! I shall remember that next time I need to beat up a rolex owner.
I couldn´t agree more!!
The Daytona somehow has odd proportions, a bit clunky. Also, this particular dial looks funny, the subdials always remind me of bullets loaded into a six-shot revolver. The Zenith looks elegant and refined. Regarding the movement, I think Zenith will keep the El Primero Classic as is because they now have the Defy Lab El Primero 21 with the 50Hz chrono as new technology.
I have an El Primero powered Daytona and a Zenith Rainbow Flyback and I love them both. Its kind of crazy to see the disparity in their values.
A few of inaccuracies in this video. Firstly, the Zenith El Primero working prototypes were actually publicised well before the Heuer Calibre 11 (which is an inferior movement to the El Primero)..I don't think there is a clear winner (don't forget Seiko, too).. Also, the 36,000 beat rate used special lubricants.. The increased servicing interval is an old wives tale. Rolex just wanted to use their own lubricants for servicing. Many watch makers state that the El Primero does not exhibit more wear and tear than slower movements. In fact, it is a very robust movement at the default high beat rate. Lastly, the Zenith El Primero has had MANY modifications since the original, including silicon escapement wheel, escapement lever, and column wheel, along with other winding efficiencies and accuracy + robustness centric improvements. The narrator comes across as either biased towards Heuer/Rolex or just plain ignorant of the details of the El Primero.
Los dos movimientos son creación de Zenith , en el Rolex se modifico para bajar alternancias 28.800 y Zenith se quedo con sus 36.000 . En cuanto al engrase Rolex decidió poner sus propios aceites y Zentih se queda con aceites normales para sus especificación de movimiento (no se hace un engrase especial por tener 36.000 alternancias). La recomendaciones de Zenith para las revisiones de este movimiento son iguales que los demás movimientos que no tengan 36.000 alternancias , 4 años . El escape de Silicio implantado por Zenith en este movimiento en un gran paso adelante ya que por las características de este material (mas ligero , mas estable a los cambios de temperatura y menos desgaste al rozamiento) lo hace mucho mas preciso . En definitiva tanto el Zenith El Primero como el Rolex Daytona son piezas muy importantes en el mundo de la relojería y ya depende del gusto personal para decidirse que pieza comprar.
I wouldnt call this guy ignorant. He does awesome videos. He probably was sponsored... And yes, I forgot to mention in my comments above that Zenith announced their watch first!
@@almeladze they're not awesome videos if what he's saying is false and inaccurate. Remember watchfinder sell watches and as such certain biases come into play. The zenith is far more interesting that the Daytona
yes there is a clear winner! it's el primero! who's even heard of those other movements? everyone knows el primero. if that's not victory, i don't know what is LMAO
@@Vader-gu2sc agree. let's call them good videographical quality)
Rolex = overrated, Zenith = underrated
Rolex = best watches, highest quality and constant development and improvement.
Zenith= same movement in diferent rainbowish- queerish cases, look at back of zenith it looks like tissot a garbage.
@@illyapetrov6092 and..... Rolex Daytona use zenith movements on there watch few years a go......
@@jasonlee-fp9vs
Rolex was using their movement far ago but rolex is all in house hand finished now, and every minute triyng to improuve everithyng and for that reason rolex is the best.
Zenith is a piece of shit.
Only beter quality are dubuis, lange, vacheron, bovet, and dufour, journe, smith.
@@illyapetrov6092 Ever hear of Grand Seiko?
@@abdullahabushehab8305
Yes i heard.
Zenith El Primero all the way, because it was made by passionate people.
archie baldwin I own 2 with the original 3019 phc movement. Shame on you with your negative attitude.
archie baldwin only slogans, I read no content. I bet you know a lot about movements 😂
I happen to own a 16500 as well, but I only have respect for Zenith.
archie baldwin the only thing you know is the word Rolex.
Hi and thanks a lot for your video. As always it's great! What is your equipment to record your videos, especially for macro rushs? Thank you for your reply. Best regards.
To have one to sell, the Daytona (any version as long as it is in steel) To actually own and wear, the Zenith for me, and pocket the difference to buy another watch!.
However few points if I may. The lateral clutch of both of these chronographs has a bigger effect than the mere quality feel of the pushers, more importantly it impacts on the rate (accuracy) of the movement when the chronograph is running. That is why Zenith warns to not leave the chronograph running all the time. The reviewer glossed over that bit!
The vertical clutch mechanism (used in the 4130) is not a Rolex invention. It was copied from the Frederic Piquet/Blancpain cal. 1185- the worlds smallest flattest chronograph movement. This high end design can run its chronograph all day long with out affecting the time keeping of the watch.
The El Primero movement was purchased in by Rolex as they only had in house production of simple movements and perhaps lacked the desire to invest and develop their own chronograph at the time. However the introduction of the cal.4130 was a necessity, as the Zenith CEO announced Zenith would no longer supply Rolex or anyone else (as it needed all of its own production for their own brand development).
great video and very informative. While I respect the Daytona, the Zenith is more appealing and wins if my money was on the line
Rolex used to use el primero movements in the daytona because they didn't think they could make a better movement. Just something to consider
I didn't know there were so many differences, but on pure aesthetics, I like the Zenith better. The Daytona has always struck me as "Swatch-looking". Even in the metal, they generally seem boring to me. For the money, there are a lot of other Chrono's I would get. Thanks as always for a great and very informative video.
Like so many others, The El Primero invokes an emotional reaction while the Daytona leaves me a little wanting. I know the Daytona is technically superior, but it just leaves me cold. I have to go with the El Primero and I am a movement snob.
I don't have a large wrist and would like your opinion on the best and best looking 40mm and less dive watch?
Interesting point of view. I think it's also important to consider the design and purpose of both pieces. Rolex watches are designed as tool pieces. They are meant to be worn by the active sportsman, on the racetrack, and into adverse conditions. While Zenith would likely argue the El Primero offers the same sportiness, I think most watch enthusiasts see the piece differently. The design is bolder in styling but more delicate in appearance with a hint of dress watch appeal. The updated movement in the Rolex jives with the brands heritage; allowing for more practical creature comforts in the field. Surely, the sportsman is going to be more interested in accuracy and longevity than beats per minute. But, what about the El Primero? It seems to me one buys an El Primero because of the history, the iconic design, the class of the piece -- and with that one wants to feel the honest heritage of the watch. So, the "if it's don't broke" saying has some merit. Updating the movement would do little to change the heart of the piece, in fact it might detract from it. Nor would it dissuade Rolex buyers from the Daytona or Zenith buyers from the El Primero. They may have shared a movement but these are very different pieces, meant for different buyers, and truly more dissimilar than alike. I appreciate both for what they are, as they are, and hope both remain on their own path rather than callously middling with the collective like so many other brands.
so clearly you dont know about Zenith. they have one of the toughest durability test in the whole swiss watch industry. Tests with extreme circumstances and probably the most durable watch out there. Rolex is clearly a more sensitive piece compared to Zenith (not worse) because Zenith is actually really built for extreme conditions. Do some research on it and you'll be surprised.
So daytona being a tool watch, is it for plumbers and mechanics?
No watch keeps more accurate time than the Zenith El Primero, but then again no watch holds its value like the Rolex Daytona or Submariner
very true, that's cos Rolex isnt the master of watch making, instead it is the master of marketing.
Why use watches as investments unless you always flip them. No one will come away with big capital gains. Invest in a S&P 500 ETF. I laugh at the idea Rolex as an investment to make money
zenith el primero vs omega speed master pls !!
Second
third
Fourth
fifth
sixth
The Zenith is the clear winner and one of the top 5 / top 10 watches of all time
I have an inverted 6 Daytona. There is a 9 where the 6 is supposed to be. Is that a valuable Daytona?
Movement in the Rolex is nicer but on the whole I wouldn't say Zenith is resting on it's laurels. They have designed a couple new movements pushing by anything most of the industry is doing.
Still catching up on all the Watchfinder & Co. videos, but they never disappoint. Insightful and instructive, made by people who care about what they do.
Like viewing a miniature Simon Schama documentary.
The Zenith EP is easily my pick.
Again amazing video. I think the 4130 fits the Rolex better. Rolex is in my opinion the luxury watch brand that makes movements simpler and more efficient instead of more complicated and difficult. But i like the 4030 movement it just does not fit how Rolex Makes their movements in my opinion
I agree. Even from an aesthetic point of view with the running seconds at 6.
But the sundials were placed better in the Zenith Daytona version...
Hi Chaps - Great review and very educational if you are a horoIogist. I would like a review on the Zenith Type 20 Annual Calendar Pilot Montre d'Aéronef which looking at Zenith's website appears to have been discontinued
Zenith were pioneers! Rolex bought El Primero movements for their Daytonas back in the day. El Primero is still one of the most precise chronograph movements normal money can buy! Zenith wins every time!
Sorry but zenith el primero was the first mechanical watch which I saw and fell in love with and it's the only reason why my passion for mechanical watch increased 10 times
I just picked up a Zenith Pilot Cronometro running an El Primero Caliber 405B with flyback feature. I AM an engineer, so I sprung for the watch with the richest engineering history with regards to movement design. I've owned this watch for a short time now, and I am amazed at A: how accurate the El Primero is, and B: how aesthetically satisfying the caliber 405B is to look at. It's like wearing a miniature mechanical marvel on your wrist. I saw another commenter here talk about how it's a bit like owning a classic car. I couldn't agree more.
John Coughlin Good comment. Exactly why I want an El Primero.
Zenith. If they thought there was a need to change, they’d change. But the El Primero is easily one of the greatest watch movements of all time. It’s one of the very few - in fact I can think of no other - that is still with us from before the quartz crisis. And no one is happier than me that it’s still with us. It’s the watch I will always want to own.
I think Zenith has made a serious contribution towards horology with the Zenith Defy Lab. I'd like to see if they could create a chronograph using this same movement.
It's all moot if the high-end conceptual pieces don't filter tech down to the everyday stuff!
But the Zenith Defy 21 is cheaper and technically better than a Rolex Daytona.
@@watchfinder Better to see brands creating it and filtering it down slowly, rather than Rolex simply copying others and proclaiming it's some sort of miracle invention by them... only to hold off from putting into their 'affordable' lines for a decade because they care more about brand image than horology.
I want to see if they make 1/1000th of a second chrono
@@almeladzefirst say to rolex to make 1/10 watch and then 1/100 and after can we ask zenith to make 1/1000.
I bought a Zenith El Primero De Luca nearly 21 years ago, have worn it almost every day since and love everything about it. The feel of the action of the start/stop pusher is unbelievably mechanical and satisfying - especially compared with my Omega Speedmaster Mark 40 Cosmos and a 7750 Bulova I have. The designs in Rainbow Flyback form are incredible, but not all El Primero examples work for me. However, the Daytona just doesn't do it for me at all (unless it's the Paul Newman variant, but who can afford one of those !)
Zenith score on history, style and class. And for being still probably the best automatic chronograph you can buy regardless of price.
And it's not a Rolex - don't follow the herd, don't be a sucker for the marketing, buy something that's genuinely great, not because some marketing hype tells you it's great.
Zenith every time for me !
Both watches are great. Watchfinder does the best reviews. I’m sure Zenith has made incremental changes but they haven’t done drastic changes. In regards to which is better, that’s a matter of personal taste.
Why can’t you love both?
There's no comparison here really. Zenith pioneered the automatic chronograph movement, while Rolex simply put it into a shiny new case.
how many different zeniths can you by for the price of that 1 rolex and they would prob all look better
Rolex for the show off. Zenith for the originality and history... Zenith of course.
You'll also enjoy a story-telling watch about“ VIXA”，www.amazon.com/dp/B078J262XH
Please do a video about the Lange 1. It’s a watch that I haven’t been able to find enough info about on RUclips, and your extremely informative videos and detailed macro shots would surely rectify that completely.
What is your point of view on Concord C1?.
In regards to the El Primero, why does the wheel shake like that?
Thank you for the video. Great information. The El Primero is so so good looking.
I think the El Primero is an incredibly looking watch, it also ticks a lot of boxes for me personally - large sunburst subdials with different colors (especially the blue), hi-beat, display caseback, modest size, and price. Meanwhile, this particular Rolex, with the metal bezel and tachymeter scale, seems a bit dated in my view, in comparison to the other Daytonas. Although no one would argue with the luxury status of a Rolex, the Zenith also announces to the WIS community that you are one of them, a wristwatch guy who knows what he is doing.
I own the El Primero shown (1969), and it's a great watch. The only qualms I have are (1) it's a tad small, and (2) it doesn't hack. Using a historic movement is great, but hacking is common these days. They need to modernize. But that dial is Fantastic.
With that said, I'd swap it for the modern ceramic Daytona in a heartbeat.
I'd keep the Zenith and buy a JLC with the money you save..both are better than Rolex.
Yes, a watch hacks if the second hand stops when the crown is pulled out to set the time.
The Zenith El Primero actually did beat Heuer Leonidas and Breitling to the post, by few months, back in 1969. It was Jack Heuer who managed to convince the world press at Basel, that his cal.11 in Carrera was first, purely because he had 15 watches with cal.11 on his stand .... whilst the Zenith had on their stand only one El Primero. That said, I had Carrera 1158 with cal.11 inside, that I bought in 1971. I had worn the watch daily for 4 years and then stored it for 40 years, wound it perhaps 10x during that period and when I took it out of safe, prior to selling it, it was accurate to +3 /-8 seconds in 5 positions, with the beat error between 0.2 and 0.4 ms. So Jack Heuer must have done something right.
Look at it this way ... Rolex used Zentith El Primero movements in their Daytona ! There was never any Zenith watch, that would use a Rolex movement !
The fact is, that until 2004, there was no Rolex in-house movement in existence. All Rolex movements were bought in from Lemania (Swatch), ETA (Swatch), Zenith and most importantly ... AEGLER. Just like Breitling did with KELEK? Rolex, has bought their main
movement supplier AEGLER, in 2004. No doubt Rolex is a better organised outfit than Zenith. After all, they spent fortune on advertising and sponsorship. Plus .... as the non profit making, registered charity organisation (Rolex pay very little tax), they can afford glossy brochures, TV advertising, sponsorships of sports events etc. Zenith in the mean time, like Hublot and Heuer, have been acquired by LVMH group .... so hopefully, their image will improve with time. As far as Rolex (and Swiss) "handmade"? is concerned .. translate it as CNC machine made and hand finished. Everyone is buying bits anx pieces from ETA and hand finishes them (even Patek Philipps).
With regards to prices and residual value? Only a few models in the range of Rolex stainless steel sports watches (Daytona included), hold their vakue. Buy the bi-metal, or 18ct gold Daytona, or GMT Master . ... and it will lose value faster than equivalent Zenith El Primero models.
Amazing stuff from this channel. Videos we didn't know we needed. Keep it up!
Glad you're enjoying, thank you.
I thought that the Seiko 6139 was the first Automatic Chronograph?
That’s a tough call but to me, Zenith wins...if talking about a pure chronograph. I own a chronograph similarly as I own some subs...I don’t use the chronograph functionality (and I don’t dive). But I chose the Zenith because it has the date complication and the 36,000vph (Daytona 28,000)...so, the Zenith having the higher frequency is more accurate, able to measure 1/10 of second versus the 1/8 of a 28,000 vph movement (Daytona). Again, does it matter, no. Why? Because I’m not measuring time on a race track. But because I’m looking at the Zenith El Primero to fill my horological want of a chronograph, it scratches that itch with its heritage and the see through case back so I can admire it all. I’m not saying the one is better than the other, just that I’m looking for something specific and have my checklist. That being said, one day I want a platinum Daytona. Why? Because it’s a bad ass time piece 😃.
I would definitely choose Zenith el primero.
You gotta admit that Zenith is positoned higher on both historical and technical level.
Isn't the Seiko 6139 movement considered the first integrated automatic chronograph these days?
WatchFinder I like your way for seeing things but you are wrong completely Zenith and Rolex apply differently the same movement. Rolex wanted to simplify the movement for a simple maintenance ,vertical clach for sturdiness to shocks and not for accuracy purposes like you say...Zenith version to that movement is for accuracy purposes, Zenith movement is for much more high horology and hence more complexity is needed for controling intervals in much high frequency, there is no unnecessarly screws like you said, and Zenith know about horology much more than Rolex therefor they understand what efficiency is all about
about the ridiculous history of Rolex Daytona....it all begin with Paul Newman and not with the watch himself, basically Rolex Daytona is a fashion watch with a great PR
While waiting for my wife's bracelet to be shortened at a high end watch shop in Geneva last week I asked the watchmaker who he thought made the best movements since he worked on them all . His response was that there were many good movements. He specifically mentioned Zenith and Omega as well as several high end brands. However, Rolex didn't get a mention. Interesting?
Zenith el primero lost by a nose to caliber 11(Breitling - Heuer - project 99) but both lost by a mile to the caliber 6139 released / available in stores by February 1969 (Japan Only). Seiko the true first automatic chronograph.
El Primero, of course. And the new one is amazing.
Wanna buy AND keep it? Go with Zenith. It’s great but soft in the used market. Otherwise, Rolex.
I love both, and hope to add both to my stable. But I have say that my first chrono is likely to be the El Primero 1969.
I’ve been eyeballing it for a couple years and am close to pulling the trigger.
Zenith! And btw it has just presented new innovative movements...
Why change something that is part of history / heritage and has proven a solid track record . No matter what Rolex does . Bottom line is that Zenith was/is the pioneer of chronographs .
A. Anderson *seiko
They really are, but like you said, others are quite impressive too.
History will always remain history, but changing what it gave us is simply how progress works!
A. Anderson with that logic we would all be driving Model T’s and there would be no telephone etc etc. You take what exists and make it better. That is how the world works
Drunken Master II: Sorry, but the Seiko 6139 chrono that came out in 1969 is no match for the El Primero in terms of quality, accuracy, robustness and appearance, and even features (if you consider the triple date variant of the zenith El Primero that came out in 1969, having small timed seconds and a chrono hour register). The vertical clutch/column wheel approach was also copied from the Swiss. While they suffer from a few minor technical deficiencies, horizontal clutch column wheel movements are much more beautiful.
this reminds me of an old zenith tv company joke about a person asking for a raise. as we all know there slogan is - the quality goes in b 4 the name gos on.
A person asked for a promotion and a new name plate on her door and she seemed to not be getting it so it seemed to them to her.
When asking why to her male boss he said the quality goes in b 4 the name goes on.
The 1st time I realized that Zenith made watches was in the early 1970s after the "Museum Watch" was released under the name MOVADO, and at the bottom of the dial it said, "Swiss made by Zenith." I never forgot that. I was a teenage boy in NY trying to fashionably learn my way around the block and learn social skills and I couldn't help but notice that most men who were fashionably "Cool" wore either the Museum Watch or a Cartier Tank. Thank God the dial of the Cartier didn't say, "Swiss Made by Whirlpool;" my head would've exploded! Many of the large government contractors started as watchmakers. Watchmaking may be the 1st true high technological advancement that led humans to make gyros that guided rockets, aircraft components, etc. Engineering the wristwatch watch may have been the beginning of technological and scientific advancements that led us to create the 1st computer as numbers and movements like watches ultimately led us to fly rockets in space!. Watchmaking, the 1st high technology.
@@tonyleavitt1730 long ago there was a money reward for making an accurate time piece as it was needed fro making longitude calculations as everything depends on time at greenwich england time zome 1. contest won eventually. England had 2 accurate timepieces one at england one on hms bounty found on pitcairn island still working 40 years later..
roling of ship and sun dial flip was inaccurate for most time pieces.. unaware of zenith and watches like bell and howell and baum folders...during war companies made what they could.. Lockheed made half of boeing b 17 bombers in burbank ca...
What kind of lighting do you use?
Arri T2 for key, Arri 650 for edge both through 2 stop silk
Watchfinder & Co. Thanks, my complimemts, i'm a product photographer and your lighting is crazy good.
Nicely put. Heart=Zenith; Head=Rolex so I'll take Zenith with cal. 4130, thanks.
watch collecting is mostly about heart...so I will take the Zenith
Objectively the Zenith, financially speaking Rolex keeps the value better thus people will understand that you are a smart investor, and that impression is important in a business setting.
While Rolex was using Zenith's movments, Zenith was spending it's time developing their one from scratch and with the ability to beat at 36000BPH was does this tell?..... Why wasn't Rolex building their one heritage as well?
love your videos!! please review the Lange Saxonia thin 37 or 40mm
Fantastic comparison... however, a minor detail regarding which was actually "el primero"... the Seiko c.6139 was available for purchase as a JDM watch at least a month before the c.11, and it was 100% in-house not built/engineered with a group of companies as the El Primero and c.11 were (impressive)... as to your question, as a brand, yes Zenith has been (sadly) running around in circles, but there is a lot more to the story regarding the Hi-Beat that the El Primero is and that the Rolex is not. Historically the El Primero is easily more important, but if it was a Daytona I would want, and couldn't get a Manual Wound Daytona, the El Primero version is the one I'd want exactly for the reasons you mention. In other words, one needs both in their collection :)
Can you make a video about the gyrotourbillon movement and why it exists if a 'normal' tourbillon movement already cancels out the effects of gravity on all the 6 points.
Please compare daytona with new zenith chronomaster sports.
I like the El Primero, as the movement and case are from the same house, however so with the Cal 4130 is the Rolex. Both stunning watches, each will find its place in the individual watch lover's heart. For me it's the Zenith, the larger sub-dials and Date just about swings it for me!
i had the opportunity to try on the wrist the one zenith el primero similar to this one on the video and it is amazing. its light, is gorgeous, well made, complex and simple and it has the ability to make you feel special.
But then...
Every time i look to the daytona I feel surronded by mystery and a magical force that makes me want it and wait for the extra money to have it.
I love the existence of both but the daytona is not the one that makes me feel speacial but the one that reminds you that you are unique , and for reason i would choose the rolex.
Both amazing watches
Both are excellent choices.
I follow a lot of horological channels but I must say you have the best narrative skills...!!!
Appreciated, thank you.
I just wish that Zenith sells this model of El Primero without a date feature.
Dan,
Check out the beautiful, no-date El Primero "Heritage" that my cousin owns or my own El Primero "De Luca," with screw-down pushers and an unobtrusive, refined date at the 4:30 mark.
I ll go with zenith, I no need chrono ,but I need date , oh I forget the price and classic look of the zenith beautiful dial
the classiest video ever. love the quality
Thanks. Your reviews are awesome
Appreciated, thank you!
Best watch reviews on youtube..keep em coming!
I'll take a counter view here. I do not think that Zenith is running around in circles when it keeps sticking to the El Primero. I think its a clear message - The El Primero can still hold its own in a sea of newly developed movements. In many ways, this is similar to what Omega is doing with the vaunted Speedmaster caliber 1861 (I bet you expected that comparison!), and IWC is doing with the 7750 (even though they have a slew of new generation in-house movements). However, what probably caused a lot of cognitive dissonance in Zenith's messaging was the strategy adopted by CEO Thierry Nataf - crazy open worked dials and all. When Jean- Frédéric Dufour took over as CEO, he undid the Nataf era mess and revived the brand by going back to the roots with the same message - El Primero is still amongst the best.
Ironically, Jean- Frédéric Dufour is now running Rolex!
Can you review *The Swatch Sistem51* ! I know it is a budget watch but it is the most affordable swiss mechanical watch.
I purchased a new watch about a month ago. I was debating between the Rolex SS Sub and the Zenith El Primero. I had been looking at the Zenith for about two years and really fell in love with it, but ultimately went with the Sub. That being said, the Zenith will eventually make its way into my stable!
Love this channel. Whats with the rope in every video?
Sailing rope! We have three themes, sporty, dressy and technical. This is the sporty theme, and the rope adds some background interest and contrast.
I love my Zenith El Primero.
both are equally awesome.
How do we do a video of chronographs without showing their functioning. :(
Fantastic review as always! As much as Zenith has the history and pedigree, Rolex has carved an entire industry all its own. It created “ necessary luxury”. An aspirational watch for both the general public and WIS collectors alike. It has also become the masters of simplicity and robustness that no one is able to match in quality and reliability. It arrived much later to the watch game and has practically eaten everybody else’s lunch.
Well put.
Aspirational watch for the new money likes..
Watch Aficionado not necessarily, I know plenty of WIS and old money that have Rolexes. For many of us, Rolex was the beginning of the “ watch trip” and some how, we all come back to Rolex . And believe me, I had every other Haute horology brand.
Thanks very nice video
Holly shit, I want both, but can't afford either.....
Thoroughly intersting videos. Thank you.
Best wishes
Thanks very much!
This guy does not do reviews, he tells a story. I don’t need a book or a kindle.
Give me a cup of tea and you tube connected to watchfinder and I’m happy.
I think I'll get both
the daytona is a great watch but its design is so common nowadays ( the external tachymeter and over all size)whereas the zenith has a much more elegant and beautiful design .
fantastic video yet again!!
Wich one do i like more? Now, that's a tricky question. I always liked the Daytona, used to have one but once on the wrist i coudn't love it, there was no connection with the watch, i prefer the older and more wiser submariners and Seadweller, especially the 16660. So if i have to make a choice it will be the Zenith, still can't believe i write this but it is true.
I'd go for zenith but I'm not sure why exactly to be honest
Cause you have good taste.
I saw an unboxing video of El Primero and all I can think of is my bank account. I seriously want to buy that bitch.
Zenith for me.
Brilliant Information , Did I miss this channel or over see it ????? simply go for Rolex for their continuous pursuit for quality and research , If Price is not a factor ???